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Court Approves Formation of New GM

July 6th, 2009 | Posted in: Financial

Only 35 days after GM entered bankruptcy protection, a Manhattan judge late Sunday issued a ruling allowing GM to sell its best assets to a government backed “new GM.”

This ruling came after 3 days of the court hearing objections from a loosely formed and apparently ill prepared group of dissident bondholders, union retirees, and other.

This ruling was the critical lynchpin for the formation of a new company that will be freed of its former tremendous debt, excess brands, and dealerships. It is expected the deal can close by the end of the week allowing the new GM to emerge.

The new GM will have lower leverage and a stronger balance sheet, which when combined with a lower break-even point, will allow it to reduce its risk, operate profitably at much lower volume levels, and to reinvest in the business in the key areas of advanced technology and product development. GM’s subsidiaries outside the United States will be acquired by the new company and are expected to continue to operate without interruption. – (GM statement)

Judge Gerber wrote his 90 page ruling as though he was a surgeon, “Bankruptcy courts have the power to authorize sales of assets at a time when there still is value to preserve — to prevent the death of the patient on the operating table.” Indeed in the buildup to this event, many have predicted this so-called 363 sale would be a quick surgical bankruptcy.

This ruling is a success for the Obama administration who determined this process could still be successful despite the massive and complex nature of GM.

GM is currently operating on $19 billion in government loans, and after the sale is completed and the new GM emerges, an additional $30 billion in government funding will be provided to see the new company off into its fuel efficient future.

The new GM will be 60 percent owned by the US Treasury, the UAW would get a 17.5 percent stake, the Canadian government about 12 percent and GM bondholders about 10 percent. The judge has issued a 4 day stay until the sale can be closed and thus is likely to happen by the end of this week.

Fritz Henderson will remain CEO and Edward Whitaker will be the chairman of the board of directors.

“A healthy domestic auto industry remains vital to the global economy and we deeply appreciate the support the U.S., Canadian and Ontario governments and taxpayers have given GM, and the sacrifices that have been made by so many. This has been an especially challenging period, and we’ve had to make very difficult decisions to address some of the issues that have plagued our business for decades. Now it’s our responsibility to fix this business and place the company on a clear path to success without delay,” said Henderson.

The new company will be called NGMCO, Inc., and an IPO is expected in 2010 along with the Volt.

Posted by: Lyle

157 Responses to “Court Approves Formation of New GM”

+1 Rashiid Amul Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 6:48 am

I had no idea they were actually changing their name from GM to NGMCO. I assume this means “New General Motors Company”.
Neither the abbreviation or the new name roll off the tongue nicely.

I am glad the bankruptcy will be over quickly.

IPO in 2010 along with the Volt? Are you talking about the same year or the same time of year?

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-1 mitch Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 6:55 am

Maybe they should call it Satples…because “That was easy”

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+3 Jim I Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 6:56 am

If this is how it has to be, then let’s get on with it……

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+2 Larry McFall Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 6:58 am

We can only hope for the best. I am sure that the 90 page Judicial ruling is just packed full of wisdom however, it can work out if we manage to keep GM employs and executives in the business that want to see the business succeed.

It appears that GM VOLTEC is starting the ole worry game such as about “Prius”! I hope they stay focused for if they don’t, surely we the puplic will not be able to and VOTEC, can be the future of GM.

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+9 Rashiid Amul Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:06 am

One more comment. The people that will be in power at GM after bankruptcy are the same people that helped put it into bankruptcy in the first place. I hope they have seen the errors of their ways and they don’t make the same mistakes going forward. I mean this for management as well as the UAW.

Edward E. Whitacre Jr is now Chairman of the board. While he was not responsible for making the mess that GM is now in, he knows absolutely nothing about cars. This could be interesting.

I wonder what his choices are? Listen to the people around him (the same ones that helped bring GM to its knees) or make his own path. Perhaps a little of both?

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-3 Dave B Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:10 am

I sure as hell won’t be buying any stock in the new GM…fool me once shame on me…

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+5 Gsned57 Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:14 am

I am most interested in the exit strategy. When are my tax dollars either going to be paid back (haha yeah) or cut for a loss. Volt or no volt I don’t want the government owning/running companies.

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+8 Dan Petit Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:31 am

It’s just time for NewGM to move forward to build Voltec vehicles, and, for us to get to work to buy Voltec vehicles.
Have a productive day.
Dan.

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-1 Charlie H. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:34 am

Rashiid Amul: +1

GM Marketing, in particular, has been terrible. They talk themselves into believing people will buy overexpensive, under-performing hybrids, and waste a ton of resources, as a result, on products that cost a fortune to develop and then don’t sell.

If GM doesn’t clean house, they’ll be back in bankruptcy court pretty quick.

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RB Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:39 am

This ruling is a success for the Obama administration who determined this process could still be successful despite the massive and complex nature of GM.
—————————————

Yes, the ruling is highly political. The location of the new small car plant is political, those in charge are political choices, and a car purchase from NGMCO will often be viewed as a political endorsement. I’m doubtful that NGMCO will play out well as a commercial enterprise, though within the realm of power politics it seems to be doing very well.

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+4 statik Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:44 am

Usually a company in this process is called “New…whatever the old company was,” or “NewCo,” then it gets changed down the road after the process is complete. That is what is going on here for sure.

I know every really, really wants to read 95 pages of a white knuckle pager turner…so here it is:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/8114421/GM-Assets-Sold-to-US-Government

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-10 Adrian Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:47 am

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GM is toast but with governments owning them, will they continue to funnel tax money in to keep them going? You bet, too many votes to be had. So sad. I guess GM will be ran just about as good as Amtrak…

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+1 Schmeltz Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:52 am

Yeah, I did a double take when I read that last statement. Is that for real??? Are you yanking our chains Lyle?

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+6 statik Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:52 am

Rashiid:

It was just driving me nuts letting the ‘name’ thing just hang out as a maybe, I found GM’s statement on it:

“In connection with the closing of the sale transaction, NGMCO, Inc. will change its name to General Motors Company and continue to operate under GM’s historic corporate and sub brands. The approval marks another step toward the launch of an independent new GM.”

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=55410

Here is the exact final breakdown of ownership, bottom line of NGMCO:

· U.S. Department of the Treasury: 60.8 percent
· UAW Retiree Medical Benefits Trust: 17.5 percent
· Canada and Ontario governments: 11.7 percent
· The old GM: 10 percent

Additionally, the old GM and the UAW Retiree Medical Benefits Trust will hold warrants that are exercisable for 15 percent and 2.5 percent of the interests in the new GM, respectively.

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Adrian Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:55 am

#6 Dan, I agree.

Sad to see the end of GM. It is like a super star athlete come back for that one extra season when he should have stayed home. Hopefully a fiscal conservative will get elected and will cut GM loose so by allowing a real reform to take place in GM management.

Side note: Imagine if Penske was allowed to choose through all GM assets, not just Saturn. Then a real car guy could be in charge of the Volt, who also knows how to run a profitable company. Does everyone see why many of us wanted GM to go into Ch11 (not the fascist style takeover Obama did)? You get the assets out of the hands of poor leaders into real businessmen who make money. Now 30% of the country won’t buy GM on principle and many of the rest would rather have Toyota/Honda/etc anyway.

I encourage everyone to read about the Panic of 1907, what led up to it and how it was ended. Amazing parallels to today and GM.

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+1 old man Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:56 am

Its more like I want for YOU to read it and then to give us all a glowing report as to how this is a very good thing and in your opinion the Volt will now be way ahead of schedule and much less costly. I am smiling in antisipation fo your next post!!

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+2 Brian Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:57 am

I don’t think GM is interested in selling vehicles. I went to try and buy a new Yukon, you would think the thing was made of gold. They wern’t interested in dealing at all. I did a lot better on my 04 Yukon. I had heard the same from several others and there experience with other dealers. The only reason I bring this up is that 19 billion is not being passed on to the consumer. I would expect the same from the NGMCO. If you want to become number 1 car maker again. Sell that car/truck cheaper than anyone else’s give that 19 billion back to the people in the form of car sales. You won’t be able to keep any cars/trucks on the lot and keep people employed and grow the economy. What is your metric for sucsess?? Was there any expectation placed on GM and how that MONEY could and would be used.

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jason M. Hendler Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:58 am

WOOHOO!

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+1 k-dawg Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 8:01 am

So when is GM officially out of CH11?

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+1 CDAVIS Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 8:13 am

______________________________________________________

After fancy maneuvering by the Government & UAW, they now have possession of the ball (ownership of New GM).

Although the Government and UAW have taken possession of the ball, they remain playing in the court of public & consumer opinion…it will be interesting to see how this game plays out.
_____________________________________________________

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-3 NoOne Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 8:19 am

Is it just me, or is the skirt on that little girl awfully short by 1950s standards?

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+1 Matt Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 8:25 am

Funny….my first thought was “National General Motors Corp.”.

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+1 Rashiid Amul Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 8:27 am

Thank you, Statik, for that explanation.

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+17 GLV Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 9:02 am

Actually, the biggest part of GM’s problems were set into place in the 1950s and 60s. GM management made a 40-year bet that the company would be making enough money down the road to pay for the fabulous retirement packages they were handing the UAW, in return for reduced pay and benefits at the time. It obviously didn’t turn out that way.

Not to minimize the affect that recent leaders of GM had in helping this along, or of the impact the current historic downturn in the global economy has had on GM too, but this has been a long time coming.

My suggestion to the new leaders of GM would be to learn from the past mistakes for sure, but to also envision a new GM that will successfully compete in the global market today. It’s a new world out there and old leadership styles are not as effective as they once were.

Good luck New GM.

LJGTVWOTR

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+5 CBK Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 9:08 am

Ummm, what are you doing looking at that LITTLE girl?

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-21 Shawn Marshall Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 9:16 am

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Toyota is licking its chops and laughing at us – so is the rest of the world.

Sayonara Volt. National Government Motors Company will be a loser from Day 1, Can’t wait for the IPO – just gotta put some cash into that. Is the Gummint/UAW combine selling shares to “unlock shareholder value”? That’s the scam line used by utilities when they tried to sell assets already paid for by investors and customers. Can anyone find the pea?

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+3 Jay Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 9:30 am

Isn’t that how GM got into the mess they are in now. Selling vehicles at to low of a price and not making any money off of them. I think the future is set that many dealers are already implementing. Its called no haggle buying and you pay whats on the sticker. Besides The dealer doesn’t really make any money off the sale of a new vehicle. They make their money from Financing, Servicing and Repairs, of the vehicles they sell and Used Cars. So really did you expect anything different?

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tom gray Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 9:37 am

I’d love to hear the goofballs on the GM board explain just exactly how they plan to get capital in the future from the bond market after screwing the bondholders out of billions. And exactly why would any sane person buy their shares? Their competitive position is no better now than before – they just stole $50 billion from their investors.

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V=IR Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 9:44 am

This could be viewed as a positive step to make improvements for the New GM:
“Fritz Henderson: jamie, nice to hear from you. we will be making changes in both our structure and processes to run the business, which includes for example reducing exec manpower by 34% from year end 2008 to 2009. yes there will be significant change. ”

Let’s see if it happens. Even better might be to reduce by even greater and add back the right people for the New GM.

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+4 EVNow Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 9:59 am

Good someone brought that up – instead of usual suspects here demonizing UAW (or the management).

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/03/gms-problems-are-50-years-in-making.html

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+11 LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:01 am

I agree. Blaming current management for GM’s problems is blaming the closing pitcher for losing the game. When he came in to a game where they were already losing 10-1!

Current management didn’t just inherit retirement packages. They inherited the quality legacy of the late 70s, 80s and 90s. They inherited a long time R&D shortfall. They inherited older less efficient plants. They inherited horrible looking balance sheets. They inherited uncompetitive labor contracts, and management structure. They inherited an antagonistic UAW used to getting better contracts every time they negotiated. I could go on…

That said changes definately need to be made. You don’t necessarily need experience in the auto industry to do it. (Mullaly is proof of that.) I’d prefer experience in some kind of manufacturing, but I imagine he’s what they could get.

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Jeremy Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:03 am

Good to hear. Call me when the gov’t gets out of GM. I’ll consider buying a GM vehicle then. Hopefully as soon as GM is on it’s feet the gov’t will start selling off it’s stake to private investors.

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+3 LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:05 am

There is no way GM could have gotten DIP financing from anyone but the US government. If this had happened two years ago, they might have stood a chance. But not during the financial crisis.

That means there wouldn’t have been a CH11. There would have been a CH7. Followed by a meltdown of the entire US auto industry–including the transplants.

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+3 Mike-o-Matic Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:16 am

>> Sad to see the end of GM. It is like a super star athlete come
>> back for that one extra season when he should have stayed home.

Maybe since “NGMCO” doesn’t roll off the tongue, we should just euphemistically refer to it as “Brett Favre” instead. Quite a bit easier to say, don’t you think?

Ah, nevermind, people would just spell it wrong anyway, then.

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Mike-o-Matic Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:18 am

Wat?

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+8 LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:19 am

If Toyota’s laughing right now–good. GM, Ford, and Chrysler laughed at Toyota, and we all know how that turned out. Laughing means overconfidence, which means sloppiness, and that almost invariably leads to a major fall.

As far as the rest of of the world laughing–who would that be? Europe? Where most governments are trying to prop up their own auto manufacturing? China? Where they’re trying, and failing to buy whatever they can? Japan? Do you really think they would let go of their auto industry without a fight? Ditto for South Korea. And I think they’re both more concerned with the madman next door right now.

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+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:27 am

I agree LauraM,

What GM needs right now is a damn good manager to get the books balanced and then achive profitability.

I a lot of ways it’s better that he ISN’T an internal promoted car guy, he can look at it from a business prospective and not as much a ‘historical’ view.

I hope he’s the right guy.

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+4 MuddyRoverRob Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:29 am

I will.

I want and need GM to succeed so we can get our tax dollars back in time…

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+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:35 am

Right on the Money Dan!

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-3 DaV8or Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:39 am

I immediately saw NGMCO as No Good Motor Co. The automotive press will have a great time with this completely lame acronym. I’m not sure what people expect from this new company. Down at the dealership it’s still the same cars and trucks that were there six months ago. The new cars coming are the same ones that were planned at least a year ago or more. Same dealerships, just fewer (meaning less competition and worse for the consumer) same workers and factories. Old debt magically erased (completely undermining market principles) and new credit line is all.

The question is, who besides the government is going to invest in this company?

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+7 statik Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:39 am

He probably just saved some money on his car insurance.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:41 am

It seems to me that the IPO would be an excellent opportunity for the governments to exit their “positions” (recovering the grant moneys) in a quick fashion. They recover the funds and GM is on it’s own sooner rather than later.

They would of course meter out the shares in a controlled manner over time.

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+1 Dave K. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:55 am

South Korea will soon have the surprise release of a small EV truck for the world.

They have the cheap labor, the battery technology, homeland built electric motors and certainly have a vast selection of truck models to work with. Lithium EV truck at $21,000. You’ll see.

=D~

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+5 Detfan Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:55 am

Let’s see the Malibu has increased its market share 43.59% from this time in 2007. The Cadillac CTS has increased its market share by 74.7% since this time in 2007. The stable of GM 8-seat crossovers increased market share 63.2% since this time in 2007. The Camaro is selling for well over list price and is outselling the Mustang. The 2010 Equinox and GMC Terrain, with their 32 MPH HWY industry leading mileage are about to dramatically increase their market share in a segment currently dominated by Ford Escape, Rav-4 and CR-V. The 2010 Buick LaCrosse is about to double its market share when it hits dealerships. In 2010 it will cost $5,000 less per vehicle for GM to build than it dis just 6 years ago.

Yep, lousy management!! LOL

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+8 Noel Park Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:56 am

Good luck to all of us.

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+2 Detfan Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:59 am

Let’s see the Malibu has increased its market share 43.59% from this time in 2007. The Cadillac CTS has increased its market share by 74.7% since this time in 2007. The stable of GM 8-seat crossovers increased market share 63.2% since this time in 2007, and currently has a 50% market share in the segment. The Camaro is selling for well over list price and is outselling the Mustang. The 2010 Equinox and GMC Terrain, with their 32 MPH HWY industry leading mileage are about to dramatically increase their market share in a segment currently dominated by Ford Escape, Rav-4 and CR-V. The 2010 Buick LaCrosse is about to double its market share when it hits dealerships. In 2010 it will cost $5,000 less per vehicle for GM to build than it dis just 6 years ago.

Yep, I’m sure Toyota is laughing . . .all the way to third place in U.S. sales!!!

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+1 Tagamet Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:00 am

Dan,
That’s got to be a new record for short posts (for you)(g)
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS

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+2 Detfan Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:04 am

Let’s see the recent cars that GM has come out with . . . .

Let’s see the Malibu has increased its market share 43.59% from this time in 2007. The Cadillac CTS has increased its market share by 74.7% since this time in 2007. The stable of GM 8-seat crossovers increased market share 63.2% since this time in 2007, and currently has a 50% market share in the segment. The Camaro is selling for well over list price and is outselling the Mustang. The 2010 Equinox and GMC Terrain, with their 32 MPH HWY industry leading mileage are about to dramatically increase their market share in a segment currently dominated by Ford Escape, Rav-4 and CR-V. The 2010 Buick LaCrosse is about to double its market share when it hits dealerships. In 2010 it will cost $5,000 less per vehicle for GM to build than it dis just 6 years ago.

Yep, GM just sucks, don’t they? LOL

I’ll be an IPO invester, baby!!

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+4 LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:12 am

Maybe you’re right. But they can’t export them here–we still have a 25% tarriff for trucks.

Personally, I hope we’re not stupid enough to let South Korea continue to follow in Japan’s footsteps with the perpetual one-sided trade agreements. So far, it looks like we will, but I’m hoping that we’ll change course.

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Luke Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:14 am

I’d disagree slightly… I’d say that GM Marketing has been terrible, because they haven’t told the engineers to build the kind of car I personally want to drive.

Sedans, SUVs, or Crossovers that are too tall for me to heave a sheet of 4′x8′ plywood up onto the roof? Yawn. I’d go buy a Subaru, except that their gas-mileage isn’t much better than my old beater truck, and they don’t have any alternative-fuel capability.

The Volt is the exception, of course, but my suspicion is that the Internet response to the concept car made the difference — not their market research. Being one of the few mass-market cars with real alternative-fuel capabilities makes it a winner, even if I can’t haul plywood on the roof.

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+1 Luke Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:20 am

(Of course, I do realize that my opinions aren’t statistically significant.)

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-1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:29 am

Luke… use the force to increase your opinion significance…

Sorry… Geek Moment!

Every opinion counts yours will perhaps come to greater significance on the showroom floor instead of in front of Congress. But truly THAT is more important at this point!

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Luke Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:29 am

(And that I’m often an outlier when compared to the population at large.)

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+2 Herm Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:39 am

NGM loses money on every car, but they will make it up with volume

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+9 Herm Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:43 am

New GM or not, I still want to see a Voltec Camaro.. same 4 cyl genset as the Volt but two motors driving the rear wheels.. and perfect 50-50 weight distribution. Use the rear seats for the battery.

Just build one for the magazines..

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:43 am

I would hope that with all the reorganization they will lower their internal costs and lower the MSRP’s.

I also think it’s not a bad time to look at a “no haggle” pricing structure. But this absolutely has to go with lower MSRP’s, as it is they basically build in ‘haggle space’, I say cut that out and set the price.

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-1 Koz Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:46 am

I want a pair of your glasses. The world hasn’t look this simple since I was a young child.

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+3 MuddyRoverRob Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:48 am

Herm, you are a man of excellent taste!

I’d like mine as a convertable please!

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+1 Lwesson Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:48 am

Interesting photo Lyle. Certainly NOT from the current era. And it says worlds for what constitutes for something to be transfixed on for these poor individuals. So now a strange new Stat game is afoot. Lets see what happens.

Regards!—– NEWHIGGINS. Per the lads, Zeus & Apollo, they were sold off, sad to say.

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+1 Koz Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 11:48 am

LOL

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Rashiid Amul Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:04 pm

Yup. That management team is so successful, they didn’t need to file bankruptcy……oh wait, they did.

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mitch Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

and..he stayed at a Holiday Inn express…

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-5 Charlie H. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:15 pm

detfan: “Let’s see the Malibu has increased its market share 43.59% from this time in 2007.”

Comparing a completely new model to one that had been on the shelves for several years? Hahahah!

They’re still pimping it into rental fleets at many times the rate of a Honda or Toyota.

detfan: “The stable of GM 8-seat crossovers increased market share 63.2% since this time in 2007.”

Mostly at the expense of Tahoes for a net decline in revenue.

Why not point with pride to GM’s success in hybrids? Oh, wait, there isn’t any such success. Unless maybe you spell “success” with a “k” in there, somewhere.

The same team that ran GM onto the rocks – and the same culture – is still in command. They need to clean house, starting with the stuffed shirts at the top.

By the way, Bob Lutz was in charge at Exide when it went into bankruptcy. Curious coincidence, that.

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+5 DonC Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

You make a very good point here about GM’s new product being quite good and a huge improvement over what GM had even a few years ago. While Bob Lutz has taken a lot of heat on this Board, and certainly I don’t agree with him on every issue, he (and Wagoner for backing him) deserve credit for turning GM in a different direction with respect to their product lines. Concentrating on making world class vehicles rather than worrying about hitting pre-established cost points has made a big difference. Lutz’s idea of insisting that every vehicle be competitive on reliability and performance is, in the long run, a better way to build the business than sales promotions or fleet sales.

Bringing this back to the bankruptcy, having shareholders who aren’t hanging on every quarterly report is very helpful in following this course.

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+1 Dave K. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:20 pm

They will probably convert the Sportage or Rondo. The Sportage is currently available with ICE at $11,000. Save the engine and transmission (-$3000). Add an electric motor assembly ($2000) and a battery ($5000 ).

=D~

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Charlie H. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:22 pm

It’s not just who – it’s the culture. The commanders at GM have been picking and grooming their successors for a long time. People rising from inside are going to think just like the guys that selected them and then ruined GM and they’re going to have the same mindset. They’re going to be using the same measurements (cost, quantity produced) that lost market share for decades instead of the right measurements (value, customer satisfaction, customer retention) that have caused other companies to grow.

Fritz is a beancounter. Beancounters rule at GM. Until they fix that, GM will continue to slide.

TTAC has a depressing assesment of the new Aveo. Go to ttac dot com and look at reviews on the right-hand side.

Mullally brought an entirely different perspective and is causing a cultural shift. Failure is not an option in commercial aircraft, so he’s fully on board with understanding Q and knows how to communicate it and measure people on it.

There is one thing that has changed at GM and I think it’s an improvement, the UAW now has an ownership stake. With luck, they’ve got a long-term focus on solid growth that will exert institutional influence. With luck, the labor situation will be less adversarial.

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+1 Charlie H. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

They can export them to lots of other places. Then they can add a line to a factory here.

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-4 Charlie H. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

detfan: “The 2010 Buick LaCrosse is about to double its market share when it hits dealerships. In 2010 it will cost $5,000 less per vehicle for GM to build than it dis just 6 years ago.”

Heaven help GM if the LaCrosse is the new standard for product development. 252 hp in the base model and there’s a question on FastLane, “why is the fuel economy so bad?” Answer: because the car is so fat. It’s a competitor to the Avalon (although it’s $4K more) and it weighs 600lbs more than an Avalon. The Avalon’s 268hp engine is going to move the Avalon faster and get better fuel economy.

The new Buick is just like the old Buick; heavier, slower and thirstier than an Avalon. And more expensive.

And, detfan, don’t look to DI technology to give GM a lasting edge over Toyota; Toyota has DI, too. In fact, they have dual-mode injection, where port and direct injection are dynamicall used to maximize fuel economy or performance, depending on the situation.

This has been available in Lexuses since 2006.

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-1 Charlie H. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:32 pm

But at this point, the market price would undoubtedly mean a big loss on our investment. The government is likely to gamble the shares will be worth more a few years from now and hang on to them. If they don’t rise, let a future administration sell them and book the loss.

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+6 LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:34 pm

I agree. This is the main reason I defend Wagoner and Bob Lutz. Wagoner and Lutz have both made their share of mistakes. Wagoner extended the 0 financing too long, bad alliance with Fiat, not selling off brands, etc., and Lutz about global warming.

But without their drastic increases in the quality of GM’s product line-up, GM’s chances would be practically nonexistent right now. Product is everything. And because they have good product, I think that if they do things right, they have a real chance at a turnaround right now.

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+1 Rashiid Amul Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:35 pm

GLV,

I understand what you are saying.

But let me ask you this.
In the 70’s, 80’s, and 90’s, when the writing was on the wall and tattooed on their faces, why didn’t they do something then?

Their product suffered, their market share suffered, their costs have suffered, their good name has suffered, and yet they carried on with business as usual. They finally started to turn it around, but too late.

In no means do I only blame management. The UAW is equally guilty here.
Maybe the media too for constantly slamming American cars while simultaneously praising foreign cars.

Then we have Americans who say Americans make crap cars and they won’t buy another one again (er….Americans like me).

For sure though, my next car will be the American made, Chevrolet Volt.

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+1 Rashiid Amul Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

Make it a 4×4 and I would buy it.

I am sick of supporting terrorists.

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-3 Charlie H. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:47 pm

You ought to paste that into a few more responses, so that people will stop believing GM went bankrupt and realize that it’s really a massive powerhouse of profitable automotive manufacturing prowess.

You know, GM put $3600 in incentives on each car they sold in June, don’t you? You should, I posted that info where you should have found it. Toyota’s incentive were just $1350. And you know Toyota dealers still get a decent margin on their cars where GM dealers basically blow them out at invoice. Real transaction prices on Toyotas vs GMs, MSRP to MSRP, are $3-4K higher. This is because the consumer values the cars.

At a low enough price, even a GM car will sell and that’s what’s happening now.

Toyota can build a good, although small, car in a high-wage country and sell it for $10.5K. That is a combination of smart engineering and excellent manufacturing practices. GM can not touch the Yaris, even though they build their competitor in a low-wage country.

And people have been known to downsize from fullsize trucks and cars to a Yaris and then express delight at the driving experience.

GM is losing the war to Toyota on fundamentals.

In hybrids, GM is in a worse position. Toyota engineered a very cost-effective hybrid powertrain that really delivers the goods on fuel economy and they are now able to leverage really large scale volume to get excellent economies of scale. They use the basic system in all their vehicle types to further leverage existing development and amortize costs across a wide range of vehicles. GM struggles to sell 1500 units of hybris per month, in two fundamentally different types, across 8 models (soon to be 9), each of which required some additional engineering work and additional marketing support. There’s no economy of scale and no prospect of margins on the horizon.

These are fundamentals and Toyota is holding GM’s nose while kicking GM’s tail.

GM doesn’t need a Hail Mary play; GM needs fewer platforms, flex manufacturing and to leverage the technical advantages they do have by moving them rapidly to production.

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+6 LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

Toyota falling to third place in US sales is due to Ford’s growing market share. GM still leads Toyota in US sales. Hopefully, that will continue. (At least, I hope so.)

Just out of curiousity–what do you think about Ford?

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+2 Herm Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

lol, I was thinking of a quick prototype for the car shows.. could you imagine the demand?, web sites would spring up with waiting lists.. and none of this traction control stuff either, I want continuous donuts in the parking lot. The convertible could use a T battery pack to help stiffen the body once they cut off the top.

They can use it to generate data on economy, performance etc.. but what it would really do is generate lots of good publicity, something NGM needs bad.

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-8 NEW Marcus R. (WL #5275) Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:53 pm

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

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+5 LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 12:54 pm

The US government doesn’t have to break even on its investment. It just has to lose less than it would in a liquidation in terms of medicaid, unemployment, etc.

And then there’s the future income taxes from workers who stay employed if GM actually becomes a viable healthy company…

I won’t even go into the potential value added by the Volt.

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-7 Legal.results.for.a.price Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

did someone remember to pay the judge? Be sure to use the new checkbook……

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+1 CorvetteGuy Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:08 pm

The vehicles sitting on the lots right now have been sitting there for a long time. You can’t blame the dealers right now. All “Rebate Money” for vehicles sold during the BK proceedings is being held in suspense and will be released very soon now that the end is in sight.

If the New GM gets back in the game with fresh rebate cash, maybe then you can get the deal you want.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:10 pm

Without knowing a whole lot of the factors it is absolutely impossible to know one way or the other how the newly IPO’ed stock will fare.
A new IPO is almost starting from zero, so it really depends (at least in part) on how the new stock is valued and how the market takes to it.

I for one will buy.

What I’m saying is that there is a real way for a lot of the money to be recovered (although timeframe and ultimately how much of the total is unknown) AND at the same time the governments can exit the car business cleanly.

I as a Canadian want our government out of it just as many of our friends here on the board do in the US.

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+5 Schmeltz Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

A Voltec Camaro…that would be a thing of beauty.

+1 to Herm.

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+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

LOL!

Personally I’ll take the traction control with an ‘off’ switch…

Twin 250 HP motors so it can out accelerate the GT 500!

Drooool…..

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+3 CorvetteGuy Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:23 pm

I’ll be in line for a Voltec Camaro. It will be the first $50,000 car I’ll ever buy.

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+2 LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:26 pm

Basically, this isn’t a case of GM vs. UAW. This was a transfer of wealth from future GM, to present GM. They made more money, at the time, doing things that way–even though it damaged their future sales, and profits.

That meant that a) the shareholder were happy since they got a nice dividend (and the future costs were mostly off the balance sheets, so they didn’t know about them) and b) the current management got to keep their high salaries and bonuses, etc. And they knew they would probably be retired before there were any real consequences. They’re pensions might be cut off at some point in the future, but in the meantime they made more than e nough to have plenty of savings.

Unfortunately, for us, we’re stuck with their “future GM.” And, by the way, all the states, and the federal government run their employment pensions, health care, etc., pretty much the exact same way.

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+1 Lwesson Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:34 pm

I made one error in selling off the Lads. The Chinese, having dismissed buying Hummer thought the Lads a goode buy. What was I thinking? If I recall, Zeus & Apollo could very well end up as some fine cuisine. Ok, back to the olde Higgins as I must buy them back.

former, NEWHIGGINS sans the Lads for the moment.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:36 pm

I almost agree with you.

However, as much as we love to hate “beancounters” the books just have to balance.

Failure is absolutely not an option.

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Lwesson Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:38 pm

Agree! I have seen the new Camaro. Here they did NOT dumb down the stunning prototype for the mundane commute dinette set. Having a voltec version, humm, with the sound mechanics adding some classic V8 rumble, which you could turn off if you wanted to, would be stunning!

NEWHIGGINS——–Regards, sans The Lads

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+4 MuddyRoverRob Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:48 pm

Thanks for your continued hard work Lyle!

Any chance of some cool technical something-or-other to talk about?
Extended mode test drive perhaps?

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+2 DonC Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

To build on your point, the “problem” with Chapter 11 filings in industries with overcapacity is that a competitor goes into Chapter 11 and comes out with better balance sheets as a better competitor. This works for that competitor but it tends to force the next weakest competitor into Chapter 11. And so on and so forth.

At the end of the day the auto industry has too much capacity. And the problem will get worse. GM may have “right sized” but there are all these new entrants which want to get into the market. Toyota has some big challenges ahead, and while GM will be a tough competitor that may not be its biggest concern. My guess is that the Chinese, Korean, and Indian auto companies — which will be protected by their governments in many different ways — are what keeps the Toyota executives awake at night.

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+1 LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 1:57 pm

Nobody knows for certain, but according to Steve Rattner, it should happen by the end of the month. And, so far, the administration has managed to basically keep to their timetable. (I am very impressed.)

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124690290741101607.html#mod=testMod

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+2 GLV Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

Nicely put LauraM. In a nutshell…it wasn’t their problem back in the 70s.

To Rashid Amul, I would add that LauraM’s earlier comment concerning a shift in focus away from quality to “planned obsolescence” during that same time was another key ingredient to GM’s endgame. Much like promising the moon to the UAW (in the future), engineering cars to break down in 5-7 years increased profit margins initially, but had a chilling effect over time.

Certainly one could argue that successive CEOs at GM would have suspected what was coming, and one could even argue that Rick Waggoner had a front-row seat, and should have been doing everything humanly possible to avoid the on-coming wreck, but in reality, even if he had been working around the clock to change things, GM had grown so big and stagnant over the years that there was little hope of avoiding disaster since the late 90s when he took the tiller. That still doesn’t excuse him or many others within GMs management for recent poor decisions…it’s just that they were in kind of the same situation as the bridge crew on the RMS Titanic the night of April 14th 1912…too much ship, too little rudder, and too big of an iceberg…

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+3 carcus1 Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

June was Ford’s 8th consecutive month of gaining market share in Canada.
http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSN026834320090602

Ford sales on the up in China
http://www.chinacartimes.com/2009/07/06/ford-sales-on-the-up-in-china/

Ford sees market share gains, increases production
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessNews/idUSTRE55S4Y720090629?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0

/oh yeah, AND my 09 5,000lb 290 hp f150 is averaging 19mpg (significantly better than my last, at 14 mpg)

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+1 Charlie H. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

As it happens, I have studied Accounting. Accounting is way of understanding company performance, not just profit but what generates your cash, is and isn’t profitable, etc.

I worked at a high-tech company that brought in an actual accounting guy (from the auto industry, as it happens) and within a few months, he pointed out a whole lot of problems that were a drain on our profitability and cash flow and set some useful new targets for operations.

But no one dreamed of letting him set product direction or even determine what the customers would and would not tolerate in terms of Q metrics.

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Tagamet Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:19 pm

All the good stuff happens out in the tails of the curve.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS

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+2 Tagamet Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

Ditto on the driving info!
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR**********NPNS

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+1 Charlie H. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:28 pm

Ford’s staging an impressive comeback. Their products tend to be pricey, though, and it’s not clear if they should keep or toss Mercury.

But when the economy rebounds, I think Ford’s going to fall back to #3, in spite of increasing their volume. Toyota has the manufacturing capacity to be #2 in a strong market and Ford doesn’t.

And share, right now, is being driven largely by givebacks; Ford’s incentives are far higher than Toyota’s (although lower than GM’s, their cars are doing a better job of selling themselves). Toyota is not cutting effective price and is taking at least a temporary share hit. However, their operations probably allow for this without the punishing cash flow damage GM sustains when their volume decreases.

For Ford, I think this is OK. Mullally is a realist and I think he’ll focus on organic growth and manufacturing excellence, customer regard for their cars should continue to improve which willl firm up transaction prices and allow Ford to gradually decrease incentives and improve profitability. They will look at intelligent platform engineering to develop new vehicle types where the opportunity presents. That will serve them well. Keep it up long enough and they’ll be #2, behind Toyota and ahead of GM. Yeah, I have zero faith in GM’s management team.

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LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

I didn’t see this before I asked you about Ford–but I gather you like them more than GM?

I agree about GM’s corporate culture. However, I think/hope things are changing. They are changing the board, and that should help. Whitacre is an outsider, and, hopefully, he will insert some outside perspective.

The Malibu gets raves reviews. And so do their Crossovers. They turned around Cadilac’s image brand image. Consumer reports–normally a detriot critic–said that GM’s quality was improving. (And the Avalanche got the top score in pick-up trucks.)

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/resource-center/automakers-bailout/general-motors/automaker-bailout-general-motors.htm

And, by the way, people seem to love the new Camaro. (I’m sure that has to do with the transformers movie-but that’s quite a marketting success any way you look at it.)

Maybe I’m trying too hard to look on the bright side, but surely it’s not all bad news about GM?

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+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:36 pm

It’s a self feeding spiral isn’t it?

I’m sure glad I get to armchair quarterback this mess.
The hot seat just has to be rough.

I wasn’t suggesting the financial folks should design the cars, rather that a company attempting to exit bankrupsy has very definate first goals. Operating in the black had better be near the top of said list.

Assuming through these proceedings the operating overhead will be mitigated or at least reduced then the NewGM should be able to operate with a positive cash flow.

Designers should design, but without oversight they will ALWAYS pick the best part. That isn’t always the best choice though if you want to keep the product saleable/affordable.

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N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

As usual you came through with the information we needed. Good job.

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+2 N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:51 pm

Another of a long line of great jobs, Lyle. How do you find the time to do it? It amazes me every single day. Do you do all this on your own or do you accept article material from others? Not asking for secrets, just information. Anyway, answering my query is not important. What is important is that you continue doing what we have come to expect. Thanks, again.

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+2 N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

Now, have you ever seen Statik produce a “glowing” report? Glowing and Statik don’t intertwine very well. He is more adept at producing reports that sometimes feel like he is trying to pull your teeth. He does not mince words and to glow with a report you have to mince, mingle and emphasize the “positive” over the “truthful”. Statik is much more inclined towards the truthful side than the positive side of reports.

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+1 N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 2:59 pm

Are you talking about the new name (NGMCO) or the IPO? Anyone interested in investing in the New GM? I wonder how many individual Americans will be willing to invest in that combination of owners? Not me. Maybe after they “prove” themselves by becoming a great car company again and repay most, if not all, of the money.

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N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

Absolutely great comment. Agree, agree, agree. What else can I say?

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+1 N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

I agree about both Wagner, Lutz and the possible turn around. It’s a mighty big “IF” GM is facing. Possible, but still a big “IF”.

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N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

Could not have said it any better, LauraM. Good going.

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N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

I agree with what you said. I do wonder about the role the UAW will play in GM’s future success or failure. I don’t look for any real change in the UAW’s position on salary, retirement, health and work environment. I expect them to pick GM’s bones, if that is what it takes to get what they want to deliver to their union members. They haven’t cared in the past about the success of the company. Why should we expect them to change for the future.

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+6 spelchekerguy Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:21 pm

Apparently not easy to spell however.

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+1 N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

Today’s success very often turns into tomorrow’s failure. Time will tell, but with the same parties at the table deciding things and carrying out policy from top to the lowest union employ, I suspect failure will be forth coming. We can hope for a better future. Futures are built on strong commitment from strong people and a solid financial and product foundation. I think the new GM lacks most of these key elements. Again, I hope for the best and wish them the best. Prove everyone wrong about you, GM. All the way from the board room to that lowly union member. Prove them all wrong.

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+4 stas peterson Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

People like you have no historical perspective.

Today is a very temporary situation. Toyota’s Quality reputation has had several holes punctured into it lately, as it has madly expanded. It will take a few years to be reflected just like it took several years to effect GM. But it is happening.

GM, Ford and Chrysler all suffered in the Government mandated crash campaign to downsize cars in the 1970s due to the Oil Price Crisis.

A car is an assemblage of thousands of parts. To downsize a car you need to downsize all the parts, engines, transmissions, everything. That led to a first generation of pretty unreliable vehicles; and a second generation too. The domestics are still paying for that decade and half of poor autos.

Bu they all had been heavily investing ever since. Over time the poorly downsized vehicles and the parts used to build them were sorted through and redesigned, where necessary. Advanced technologies pioneered by Detroit and the GM have extensively refined combustion and combustion cleanup. Today’s auto , even the pure ICE powered ones are essentially zero pollution vehicles, at least in the USA. Only in the EU do they let the air actually get dirtier, as poorly cleaned diesel monstrosities proliferate. We don’t let those pollution producers into the USA. Hooray.

Today the world’s most advanced engines come from the domestics. Even Chrysler has no engine designs older than a decade. Similarly investments in transmissions and drive trains have been made; and these advanced transmissions are now appearing in great numbers.

Pretty uniformly, the domestics are/were producing vehicles or similar or equal quality to the best of the Asians and considerably higher in quality than the current Europeans,and also the average Asian autos as well.

The worm is/will turn, and the domestics with fresh clean Balance Sheets will compete with the World, for the first time with a full repertoire of competitive vehicles. The US domestic auto industry will rise to prominence again, just like the domestic Steel industry, once prostrate, is now the highest quality and lowest cost producers,and profitable in the World.

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+1 N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:38 pm

LauraM,

Don’t you realize that everyone in foreign countries have always laughed at us here in the States? That is until it is time for Uncle Sugar to send them their annual check, food stuffs or troops to fight for their freedom to laugh at us. It is a sad way to run a world, but apparently nothing is going on at the current time to change the world’s opinion of us in the States. To our shame.

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+1 N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

Let us hope so, Dave K.

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+1 old man Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:53 pm

I know but it was fun just wording it and then in my mind seeing Static’s facial expression.

I do upon rare occasion disagree with Static but allways admire how throughly he thinks a subject thru.

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-1 Charlie H. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

stas peterson: “A car is an assemblage of thousands of parts. To downsize a car you need to downsize all the parts, engines, transmissions, everything. That led to a first generation of pretty unreliable vehicles; and a second generation too. The domestics are still paying for that decade and half of poor autos.”

GM still doesn’t have a small car with the same quality and value as a Fit or Yaris. And the Yaris is built in Japan… a high-wage country. GM’s competing effort, the Aveo, is built in Korea and it’s truly a wretched car.

stas peterson: “Today the world’s most advanced engines come from the domestics. Even Chrysler has no engine designs older than a decade. Similarly investments in transmissions and drive trains have been made; and these advanced transmissions are now appearing in great numbers.”

That must be some kickin’ weed… Just a few years ago, GM was ballyhooing their latest generation of PUSHROD engines. The base Impala has one of those engines, with 2 valves per cylinder and an antique 4-speed automatic transmission.

Sure, GM has some engines that are pretty hot stuff but they do not strive to get the high tech into all their cars in a hurry. Toyota’s entire line had VVT back in 2001. GM… I’m not sure the entire line has it even today.

Nor does GM have anything to compete with the Prius (Atkinson cycle engine just starts the list of goodies). In fact, I recently looked at a writeup of the IQ from last year or so… that thing is jam-packed with tricks.

Every auto manufacturer has some legacy costs… overcapacity is an especial problem at the moment. If Toyota (or M-B or VW or any automaker you name) could jettison some of their obligations and get an infusion of cheap government capital, how do you think GM would stack up against their operations?

When the new GM emerges from bankruptcy… will they even have positive cash flow? Maybe not… and it’s not like things will magically improve after Day 1.

stas peterson: “Today is a very temporary situation.”

Today is the father of tomorrow.

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statik Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

I know I have expressed this sentiment myself, but does hurt to give the nod to Lyle whenever the opportunity arises.

Keep up the good fight Lyle, only 5-6 hundred days to go, lol. Tell you what, when you finally get your Volt…take the rest of the day off.

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-1 Charlie H. Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

Gee… -6. I’d sure like for one of those geniuses who clicked the thumbs-down button to point out any errors of fact in that post.

Well, aside from “fewer platforms,” that is an opinion. But platform count drives up costs and unit costs. That is a fact.

Of course, even GM agrees with that assessment… Bye-bye Kappas.

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+1 N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 4:02 pm

Ditto from me also.

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+2 N Riley Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 4:06 pm

I suggest we declare a national holiday if only celebrated by those signed-up on this site. What do you say? That way we could all take the day off.

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statik Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

Side note: Nothing to do with the thread, but Volt specific. Autoblog has a little ditty on the Volt…nothing we haven’t heard before, but there it is anywhoo:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/07/06/what-a-car-feels-and-sounds-like-gm-refining-volt-driving-exper/

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

What a car feels and sounds like: GM refining Volt driving experience

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/07/06/what-a-car-feels-and-sounds-like-gm-refining-volt-driving-exper/

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V=IR Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

Capt. Jack you are a troublemaker. “Esxperience” or whatever that was.
Looks like a good one. Looking forward to it.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 5:48 pm

I’m a tease. I don’t post much when the thread is commenting on bankruptcy stuff. I’m ignorant to any business aspects of such.

)

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

“What do you say? That way we could all take the day off.”

And pickup or Volts!!!!

He|| yeah! Where’s the after party?

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popurls.com // popular today Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 5:59 pm
-1 CaptJackSparrow Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 6:08 pm

“That must be some kickin’ weed… ”

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!

Hommie, U need to “Puff Puff GIVE!”

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 6:13 pm

Aw man you don’t wanna hear about my 2002 Explorer Limitted big FUKINPIECOF GOTDAMN SH|T!!!!

I swear, sh|t keeps breaking all the time. Had the Tranny rebuilt 2yrs ago and needs another one….WTF?

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+2 CS Guy Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 6:22 pm

Our wonderful politicians have been in lock step with the wishes of the paid lobbyists for more than 30 years and now we see just what a total mess they have gotten us into here in the good old USA. I’m not saying that corporate influences have basically bought and paid for the politicians. Wait that is exactly what I am saying.

Here are some facts about Amtrak and rail passenger service in general.

“A train uses up to 70% less energy and causes up to 85% less air pollution than a jet aircraft.” http://www.prweb.com/releases/2006/08/prweb422603.htm

This is one of my favorite, from a columnist who is trying to bash passenger rail. If you ride a passenger train “when it is just a quarter full – and I’ve been on plenty of those – then your emissions per kilometre travelled are about the same as sitting in a fullish plane. More leg room, but no greener.” Ok, so he’s saying that a full airplane and a 1/4 full train have the same emissions per passenger mile. Isn’t that like saying train travel is FOUR TIMES as efficient as air travel. http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/01/trains-vs-planes-emissions.php

In 1986 I rode the bullet train (in Japan, of course) and have been a proponent of high speed rail ever since. Just because our fully bought and paid for politicians here in the US have a different agenda does not mean that the US should lag behind Europe and Asia when it comes to rail travel.

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carcus1 Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 6:43 pm

That 2002 Explorer was PM – — Pre – Mulally.

My pickup runs great! (course, it’s only got 3,000 miles on it)

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+2 CS Guy Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 6:56 pm

All hail the beancounters! Yeah, when hell freezes over.

Beancounters are the biggest problem in America today. They have an excellent grasp on the current fiscal quarter. And that’s it. They can’t see past their #2 pencil. This is why first Japan, then China, and now Korea are kicking us in the teeth competitively. When the Japanese want to own an industry do you think they make the beancounters the boss of the whole show? Heck no. They kick them down to the basement with the leaky pipes as it should be. There is no way to win against companies that have a 5 to 10 year plan for dominance when all you can think about is the next 3 months.

The sooner we boot the beancounters out of the decision making the better.

“If you want to keep the product saleable/affordable” the first thing to do is put the customer’s needs on top of saving a few pennies here and there till you end up with a POS that no customer wants to buy. A case in point would be saving $3 per vehicle by NOT installing seat belts as auto industry beancounters wanted. Who cares if it causes thousands of deaths each year. Let’s put the bean counters in charge of YOUR families life at each point in the day and see how long you survive. It was cheaper for a large Chinese company to add the chemical Melamine to milk products instead of using more expensive high quality milk, now look at the Chinese dairy industry – it is banned from so many countries.

“By November 2008 China reported an estimated 300,000 victims,[1] six infants dying from kidney stones and other kidney damage, and a further 860 babies hospitalized.[2][3] The chemical appeared to have been added to milk in order to cause it to appear to have a higher protein content. In a separate incident four years before, watered-down milk had resulted in 13 infant deaths from malnutrition.[4]” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal and

“The patterns in Chinese health scares are similar: An illegal cheaper and potentially lethal contaminant is added to an essential product and rather than admit the crime, there is corporate silence. Beijing initially denies the problem, or its extent, and follows up with condemnation and even executions of the guilty. But it does little to prevent cases occurring again. This latest example is no different.” http://www.forbes.com/2008/09/21/milk-china-fda-oped-cx_rb_0921milkscandal.html

Apparently the Chinese are THE PERFECT CAPITALISTS and have put the beancounters in full control.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:05 pm

My mofo has 141000. 80% Freeway because it was our vacation car from Northern California to Southern California.
H8 that dang suv, should be SUK.

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+1 Boycott GM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:11 pm

When Ford can come up with an innovative product with good mpg? I will buy Ford or Japanese/Korean only. Listen GM/Chrysler, you will never get my business. Also to Chrysler, what kind of shame you have by getting bailout twice in your lifetime? Selling yourself to Italian in a fraudulent way is un-American. Government Motors betrayed the secured creditors and violated bankruptcy law, why anyone with self-respect want to buy your products when you folks are as crooky as the current administration? Shame on you, Government Motors. I am a Ford car guy now. (also to Ford, if you get rid off the stupid UAW, many Toyota/Honda customers will switch)

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W Shatner Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:13 pm

The administration needs to STOP bailing out failed corporations. We should not be investing in failure. This sends a very dangerous signal. It’s now okay to fail, uncle will make everything better…

It is time to ship the current administration on a slow boat to France !

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DonC Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:22 pm

I didn’t give you a negative bump but one, as Tagamet said, you’re showing up on something of a GM fan site dressed at the Toyota mascot. That will get you some negatives. Two is that GM hasn’t been a strong competitor because of historical issues (higher debt load, legacy labor costs, expensive and too large a dealer network) which the bankruptcy will address. Three is that GM management has not been bold enough. Four is that GM product has gotten much better. Much better.

To address the last point, last week someone had a Chevy parked in the driveway and it looked pretty nice. I thought maybe it was a Malibu but, when I went round the back, to my surprise the logo said “Impala LTZ” (or maybe it was LZT or some other three letters — I realize that if I remember the letters wrong statik will claim I’m making the whole thing up — LOL). I took a peek inside and it was a very nice interior. I understand that the Impala may be phased out but it looked as well done both inside and out as a Camry, and I’m sure I wouldn’t have said that ten years ago.

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+1 Dave G Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:24 pm

If we weren’t on the verge of a depression, letting GM go belly-up may have been an option. With the way things are, letting a comapny that big fail would send us all to the poor house. Lets put it this way: How would you like to see the Dow Jones Industrial Average around 4000?

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+1 carcus1 Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:27 pm

Hi Higgins

If those Beijing bums try to lay and hand on the lads, I think it’ll be Zeus and Apollo who end up enjoying some Chinese “finger food”.

The boys will probably find their way back to you. You’ve got a way with animals.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH-kS3J8Jds

/don’t go changin’

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LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:35 pm

I realize that this probably won’t change your mind–but GM’s secured creditors got par value for their bonds. It’s the unsecured creditors who were “betrayed.”

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124338322763456581.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

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carcus1 Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:39 pm

….. reminds me…

need to get the oil changed on the scooter for my weekend trip.

Easy Rider – Fraternity of Man – Don’t Bogart Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbY9ePebWB8

– although, store bought swisher sweets is about as exotic as the smoke gets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73PnAymHAHk&feature=related

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CS Guy Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

Three cheers to The New GM. I wish you many, many more happy years in the auto industry.

PS, please start making electric cars and quit trying to kill us with gassers. Thank you.

>>> NO PLUG = NO SALE <<<

ELECTRIC CARS + 40% NUCLEAR POWER + 10% HYDRO/TIDE POWER + 50% SOLAR AND WIND (0% COAL/FOSSIL FUELS!!!) = AMERICAN ENERGY INDEPENDENCE and ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

… and Jobs For Americans! ! !

(Quote)
an_outsider Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

“.. GM’s subsidiaries outside the United States will be acquired by the new company and are expected to continue to operate without interruption.”

“A healthy domestic auto industry remains vital to the global economy and we deeply appreciate the support the U.S., Canadian and Ontario governments and taxpayers have given GM, and the sacrifices that have been made by so many. This has been an especially challenging period, and we’ve had to make very difficult decisions to address some of the issues that have plagued our business for decades. Now it’s our responsibility to fix this business and place the company on a clear path to success without delay,” said Henderson
————————————————————————————-
Just curious, I do not want to put any oil on fire.

- What about GM en México in this turnaround ? I haven’t heard any Mx gouvernement cash infusion to save their (GM) market share of the “integrated” north american auto industry… Did I miss something?

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Lurtz Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 7:55 pm

Can someone explain why too many dealerships are a bad thing? Thanks in advance.

(Quote)
LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 8:03 pm

Yes, every car company has legacy costs. (As do a number of non-car companies.) The difference is the amount in question.

Because of GM’s previous success, (and UAW insistence on retirement at 48), they have, by far, the largest number of retirees. And they definately have the largest percentage of retirees per current worker.

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/2005/07/why_gm_is_so_op.html

You can’t tell me that that didn’t place them at a significant disadvantage. GM has to pay around $7 billion annually in retiree costs. That’s a lot of money that can’t be used for product development, R&D, and/or quality control.

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1862493,00.html

(Quote)
Dan Petit Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 8:45 pm

Record short post from record many contracts closed in 6 days
(8), has had me all talked out for awhile (for here).
Looks like a new trend. Posts will likely stay short for awhile, but I really appreciate having this site to visit with everyone.
I’ll visit and at least vote, which is extremely fun, unless someone has a direct question.
Dan.

(Quote)
LauraM Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

I didn’t give you a negative bump either, but, well, if you don’t want negative feedback, you might want to work on the way you say things. Sometimes you come across as needlessly hostile. Not just to GM, but to other posters who disagree with you. It doesn’t bother me, but I could see how someone could be offended.

Of course, this is just IMHO. I could be completely off. I wouldn’t have said anything, but you did bring it up.

For the record, I find your posts interesting and informative. You clearly know a lot more about cars and engineering than I do. And you point out potential problems that I have no clue about.

By the way, on the facts–the Cruze may not be available here yet, but it got good reviews overseas. And some of their other cars are getting their best reviews in years. Maybe decades.

(Quote)
Dan Petit Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

Jack, maybe this will help.

At 141,000 miles, if you haven’t replaced the original Alternator, the voltage fluctuations from the worn down brushes (with the brush springs extended), make for weak contact with the armature.

This gradually depletes the battery. A battery with “boil-up” acid stains around any filler cap (a “gonner”) makes it all happen even faster.

Here in Austin, over the last 5 months, the 4 transmission shops I teach diagnostics to are gradually accepting the fact that the Alternator is the major part of the blame.
I just replaced the Alternator in the 05 Element proactively at 79,000 miles because the brushes were starting to fail. You can tell the brushes are worn when the AC is on HI FAN SPEED, and the speed fluctuates at highway speeds. GET A BRAND NEW ALTERNATOR, because the computer and its software are also getting these surges when the speed of the FAN COMES UP AGAIN.
(Ford brushes last around 110,000 miles, as do GMC’s.)

The system voltage goes so low, that the reduced voltage cuts in half the magnetic strength of the four solenoids in all transmissions (making them open insufficiently against the solenoid spring). This, in combination to transmission fluid which is too thick (too old), causes the accumulators to fill too slowly and results in an excessively damaging actuating-slowness to close the bands around the planetary drum.

I diagnose this several times a week in all makes and models excepting not as many (demographic-proportionally) GM transmissions (smile).

Never ever trust that “if starter motor works” as an indication of a sufficient alternator or battery.

Hope this helps out.
Dan.

(Quote)
Chris C Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 9:17 pm

Checkbook? Nah this group uses credit!

Will that be Visa or Mastercard?

(Quote)
Dave G Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

I like your line of thinking, but there are many flaws.

First, the idea that electric cars will eliminated our dependence on foreign oil – the facts don’t support this. Only 44% of our oil consumption is gasoline, and we import 66% of our oil. Heavy duty and long distance travel require liquid fuels. The energy density of the best battery is around 20 times less than diesel or jet fuel. So in additional to electric vehicles, we will also need bio-fuels to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil.
http://www.coskata.com/EthanolFeedstockPotential.asp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxNeBQCRv1c

Second, production of electricity requires rapid response to changing demand. Nuclear is not able to change it’s output rapidly, at least not at reasonable cost. Also true for renewable energy – you can’t turn up the sun or wind to meet spikes in demand. Natural gas is the only solution for this that I know of. Yes, it is possible to replace coal with solar, wind and increased nuclear, but getting rid of natural gas in the production of electricity will be a lot tougher.

(Quote)
statik Says:
July 6th, 2009 at 10:56 pm

No, Impala LTZ is right…and I totally believe you peaked inside one, lol.

The LTZ is the top of the line again (now that the SS is canned…again). Impala is actually a really good seller for GM, and a surprise for them. I think they thought it would be discontinued shortly after the Malibu was released, with it being rendered obsolete.

However, that was not the case at all…it has picked up steam, and is always a top 3 performer (it was GM’s best selling passeger car last month – 14,931 units). The plant had been almost always running in Oshawa at full tilt (before Carmegedden, it now runs at a more normalized pace)…something that can’t be said for many, (most) other plants at GM.

I think that is because it is the last W-Body car GM produces (old timers remember this at the GMT10), which is basically GM’s old ‘master planned’ vehicle for mid-size, fwd cars. It never really panned out for GM (re:hideous Roger Smith failure), but this is the last of the breed and has a decent following, and has been perfected in its old age with its last update. It is basically a larger mid-size offering than can’t be found anywhere on the market atm. (110+ wheelbase, and a clean foot longer in overall length than the the Toyota Camry). If you want big and simple tech, or need the perfect fleet car…this is your huckleberry.

GM decided the Impala will continue ‘as is’ through the 2013 model year…before it will be bastardized on the Epsilon II platform. (just announced about 4 days ago)

(Quote)
+1 Lwesson Says:
July 7th, 2009 at 8:16 am

Ah, yes Merlin, I almost forgot. I learned how to communicate to parrots as a way to distract myself from the “little” bridge we were building and to amuse our Nippon “hosts”. They were easily amused. For me, I found this, ah, Dr. Doolittle refuge refreshing as parrots you see are quite bright and better at conversation than most would assume, or perhaps it was the jungle heat and a bad bout of malaria that helped that. Came in useful I can say.

The Chinese seem to have lost the boys! I rather suspect that they are making their way on a slow boat from China as I type. Funny, the chap I talked to in Maderian over the phone, as I did not get a computer reply, said that he could not type anymore due to a certain encounter! Humm, should have stuck with Hummer.

Back to the gin and quinine tonic.

Kind regards carcus1! OLDHIGGINS

(Quote)
statik Says:
July 7th, 2009 at 10:06 am

Randon news update on topic:
——————

Appeals loom as GM tries to exit from bankruptcy after judge approves plan to sell assets

NEW YORK (AP) — Groups representing plaintiffs in car accidents said Monday they would oppose General Motors’ attempt to quickly exit bankruptcy protection, arguing that hundreds of victims could be hurt by the government-led plan.

…Steve Jakubowski, who filed the appeal notice for the accident litigants, said his appeal would assert that the bankruptcy judge overstepped his authority by preventing victims from pursuing litigation under their state product liability laws.

He estimated that about 1,000 lawsuits could be pending with potential damages in the range of hundreds of millions of dollars.

“It affects … virtually every walk of life in this country,” he said. The deadline to appeal the case to the District Court is noon Thursday, after which point Gerber’s order takes effect and the sale is free to close

more here:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Appeals-loom-in-GM-plan-to-apf-3047600078.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=6&asset=&ccode=

(Quote)
statik Says:
July 7th, 2009 at 10:16 am

I hit up a explaination of this back in May when they announced the first 1,100 to hit the road, if you don’t mind, I’ll just copy and paste for you.

/hopefuly this is what you are looking for
—————–

#9 Statik said:
May 15th, 2009 at 6:51 am
http://gm-volt.com/2009/05/15/gm-to-cut-1100-dealers-today/

SImple transportation is a good place to start.
—-How many deliveries does a dealership get in a week…total? Them trucks carrying cars don’t cost like $10 to run. Your looking at say $700 bucks a drop? Maybe the dealership gets a delivery every other day of the week from the mothership. $700 x 3 drops x 52 weeks = 110k per dealer. So the savings on 3,600 dealers per year would be….about 400 million. If he gets 5, thats 655 million. If he gets 7, thats 900 million. (Easy to see the money saved when you look at the fact oyota is selling close to GM’s volume, but only dropping to 1,200 dealers instead of 6,000+)

How about the white shirts employed by GM?
–There is a hierachy above the dealer that has a immediate impact. GM has approximately 1,200 ‘white collar’ shirts looking after these dealers, ie) there is a rep for each cluster of dealers (maybe like 8-12), then he has a boss that looks after a region, then he has a boss that has a whole big ‘chunk of the map,’ all of whom report to a souless VP.

This white collar guys are all making 75-150K…42% less dealers = less shirts, probably 500 less. 500,000 x 125,000 = 62.5 million

Lastly, stuff that sucks:
–Some of these closures, are a necessary evil to get rid of, because they are one of the main contributing factors to the brand not being shuttered. The Oldsmobile fiasco cost a billion (that was a lot of dealers too)…but you are probably looking at another billion here if they try to do it outside of the GSB.

–What is the value on getting rid of those 150-300 orphaned dealerships…the ones that make no sense, the ones that have long since been displaced by highways and city growth? You know the one, in the worst part of town, in a field by itself. It used to be a good dealership, but now won’t die. Probably the dealer owns the land, and the building, and can live on a dime…these are money losers to GM. They have minimum standards of support they have to give, and that minimum probably costs them a easy 100K once you factor it all in. Another 30 mil a year.

I’m sure there is lots of other junk I’m missing, but with just these things you are looking at a savings of probably 2 billion in the first year…and 600 million to a billion each subsequent year.

(Quote)
Fappy Says:
July 7th, 2009 at 11:30 am

> NGMCO

How about No Good Motor COmpany?

(Quote)
+1 Bob G Says:
July 7th, 2009 at 12:40 pm

Since LauraM mentioned Alan Mulally, IMHO his big success at Boeing was the 777. During development, he implemented cross-functional integrated product teams, the “working together” philosophy with customers and suppliers, and digital pre-assembly. There was a real atmosphere of excitement. He spent a huge amount of R&D money improving processes and facilities to make sure the 777 was just right. And it was. It went together in production with less troubles than any previous airplane, and it still performs well in service. It commands a good market share, which goes to show that if you focus on doing it right in the long term (instead of counting every penny spent today), the profit will come.

(Quote)
CS Guy Says:
July 7th, 2009 at 8:06 pm

I agree that Natural Gas plants are needed right now for peaking power demand throughout the day. But baseload power can’t be ramped up or down quickly (takes hours to a day or more) and then they do not operate at peak efficiency. The best answer is to have the baseload power plants operating at as close to peak efficiency as possible 24/7, only taken down for maintenance, etc.

This is exactly why electric cars and trucks are THE best solution for our transportation. Most of them will be recharged at night and will use power that would otherwise be wasted or wastefully generated (at less than peak efficiency).

But to be practical in the near term, I am also a member of the army for the Pickens Plan to run all the diesel trucks and heavy equipment off natural gas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_load_power_plant
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10230930-54.html
http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/003955.html

========================================================
… No Plug = No Sale! …

ELECTRIC CARS + 40% NUCLEAR POWER + 10% HYDRO/TIDE POWER + 50% SOLAR AND WIND (0% COAL/FOSSIL FUELS!!!) = AMERICAN ENERGY INDEPENDENCE and ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION

… and jobs for Americans!

(Quote)
UnderCover Tonneau Cover Says:
July 8th, 2009 at 12:51 pm

I think it means Nationalized General Motors Co myself… I wish I could get a bail out every time I had a failed idea/project…

I would be a millionaire

(Quote)
jeffhre Says:
July 28th, 2009 at 5:10 pm

Why would anyone have invested in them before – blue chip inertia? The car making business is incredibly capital intensive, low margin and subject to seizures leading to complete meltdowns during downturns.

It’s only because they lasted so long (lasting mainly because of the horrendous cost of entry to the business and the high cost of shipping vehicles overseas for the first 60 years of business, that they have survived) that anyone would mistake a car-maker for a safe profitable investment.

Invested capital is capital at risk. Especially if it’s in the car business and the government is not committed to extending a hand to keep them out of bankruptcy.

(Quote)
jeffhre Says:
July 28th, 2009 at 5:14 pm

I would take a wild guess that the value of the company post IPO at any time would be more than the minus 50 billion (capitalization minus debt + new capital needs) before.

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jeffhre Says:
July 28th, 2009 at 5:29 pm

I didn’t bump you down at all. All right on the money, except for not including any of the points stas peterson pointed out. Makes it seem very one sided. Time will tell if GM is able to gain momentum or will slide back into some old habits.

(Quote)
Brian Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 10:12 pm

Then why is Amtrak alway in the red if it is so efficient?

(Quote)

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