On Friday, GM announced that it had chosen an Orion Township Michigan assembly plant as the location it would build a new upcoming subcompact car. Stamping for the car would be done in Pontiac Michigan. The move takes this future vehilce away from China where it was originally planned to be built. The move stateside was a concession to the UAW for its agreement to exchange its debt for equity. 67% of GM’s vehicles are built in the states, and shipping one from China adds $850 to its cost.
“Small cars represent one of the fastest-growing segments in both the U.S. and around the world,” said Troy Clarke, president of General Motors North America. “ GM will be the only automaker, foreign or domestic, to build small cars in the U.S . , and we believe Orion Assembly and Pontiac Stamping are well suited to deliver a high-quality, fuel-efficient car that competes with anything in the marketplace.”
Clark said the new subcompact also known as a B-class vehicle would not be the Chevrolet Spark that most had speculated, calling it instead, “a yet-to-be announced product.” The current Aveo which is slated to be discontinued is GM’s current B-class car. Some speculate the Chevy Viva will be the new car.
“We’re thinking the B-car will sell north of 100,000 vehicles,” said Clarke, though he acknowledged only about 40,000 Aveos are sold yearly now. “We’re thinking this segment will grow because of higher fuel prices as well as the attractiveness and utility of the vehicle.”
There are no indications the car will be a hybrid though GM says the car “will add to the automaker’s growing portfolio of U.S.-built, highly fuel-efficient cars, including the Chevrolet Cruze and Volt.”
Production will begin in 2011 and 1400 jobs will be restored by this plan.
Source (GM)
This entry was posted on Saturday, June 27th, 2009 at 9:25 am and is filed under Brand, Efficiency. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
+8
Jun 27th, 2009 (9:31 am)Well, I’m going to have a bit biased on this one. I grew up in Lake Orion and the Orion plant is very important to the local economy. I hope the new sub-compact is a great seller.
Notice that I didn’t say first!
Jun 27th, 2009 (9:31 am)I hope this is a success for GM. Not of great interest to me
-22
Jun 27th, 2009 (9:36 am)(click to show comment)
Jun 27th, 2009 (9:46 am)Probably will have to sell it at a loss to compete with Korean cars.
+4
Jun 27th, 2009 (9:54 am)Dynamite styling (as usual for Chevrolet) and made in Michigan!
Could this be the crack in the door opening once again for the great state of Michigan?
At one time, back in the 1950′s over 90% of the vehicles manufactured in the world came from Detroit. And 50% of those were made by GM.
Can we ever get those glory days back again?
Cars like the Spark and the Volt just might turn the tide.
I predict that GM will be the world leader once again.
GO SPARK!
GO VOLT!
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:05 am)Yes, the Volt offers clean, quiet electric drive without the stress of dealing with a limited range. “Everyone want’s this”. Yet, we run into the same question time after time.
Q>Who will actually buy a Volt?
A>People who can just was well spend $40,000 as $20,000 for a new car.
What about the others? Specifically commuting University students. Folks who are just making their way into the working community. And others who feel that weddings, new homes, sporting equipment, extended travel, and other items are a priority.
The Aveo and Cobalt have had their run. Bring on the new tech. Light, simple, 40 mpg, and fun to drive.
=D~
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:10 am)Dynamite styling? Yesterday, I saw a neighbor from the next street over, driving a 1957 Corvette. Now that is dynamite styling. My friend across the street has a 1956 Chevy, which he drives to car shows, parked in his garage. And in my scrapbook, I have a picture of my 1957 Chevy 2 Door Bel air Sport Coupe. Beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder.
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:24 am)So how come when they ship a car from Detroit they also charge $600? And exactly why did the UAW get all those shares of GM stock if they “forgave” GM’s “debt” (it wasn’t debt at all – it was one more health benefit the UAW got that no other GM employees got).
And what about the costs of all those foreign parts that go into the new car. Doesn’t it cost anything to ship them to Detroit?
+3
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:25 am)______________________________________________________
Lyle’s Article:
“On Friday, GM announced that it had chosen an Orion Township Michigan assembly plant as the location it would build a new upcoming subcompact car….The move stateside was a concession to the UAW for its agreement to forgive its debt….”
————-
The UAW forgave its dept?
I thought that the UAW did an OLD GM UAW Future Benefits Pledge for NEW GM stock swap + $2.5B Cash.
“…The union agreed to take 17.5% equity in the new GM, stock warrants for an additional 2.5% of the company, plus $2.5 billion in cash and $6.5 billion in preferred stock that pays a $585 million annual dividend—all in place of the $20 billion GM had pledged to the UAW to start a Voluntary Employee Benefits Assn., or VEBA. That entity, which GM set up in an earlier attempt to offload its massive health-care plan for workers and retirees, will pay medical benefits the way a pension fund pays retiree checks. Bondholders, meanwhile, would take 10% of GM’s stock and warrants that could eventually give them an additional 15% of the company in exchange for the $27.2 billion of GM debt they hold….”
Source: http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/may2009/db20090531_215218.htm?chan=top+news_special+report+–+auto+bailout+2009_special+report+–+auto+bailout+2009
______________________________________________________
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:26 am)Like I said “as usual for Chevrolet.”
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:27 am)I must admit I drive a compact out of economic reasons but I would never buy a sub-compact they are just too small. I also need a truck for hauling and would love to see a long-bed pickup or van based on the Volt drive train. I keep a vehicle about 12 years and rarely buy new. I was seriously thinking about buying a new Volt when the original price was $25-30000. I hope GM manages to get the Volt to market in that range at a profit. Battery prices need to plummet for that to happen. I hope they take a look at the other innovations out there. Such as power generating shock absorbers, low-loss voltage converters, high output solar body panels, low power audio, micro heat pumps and other radiant heat conversion devices. They have a window if oppertunity to grab back market share. Can wait to test drive a Volt!
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:34 am)If you are going to be cost competitive in the sub-compact market, and you have your domestic labor costs under control, building at home is a good idea.
Sidenote: I am a little surprised they chose the Orion plant considering the amount of money they just poured into one of their other ‘idled’ plants…but I guess it is closer to ‘home’ and to Pontiac, I’m sure they have done the math on it.
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:39 am)Chevrolet Viva.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/chevrolet-viva.html
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:42 am)______________________________________________________
No Plug No SALE!
Sorry GM but Im’ not interested in a Chevy Yaris if it does not have a plug. This car belongs to that that Toyota anti-plugin ” must use gas” company.
______________________________________________________
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:50 am)GM had 3 plants (all 3 on the chopping block) in the running to build this new car. One of them was the Janesville, WI plant. This was a devastating loss to Janesville, but I am sure it would have been as devastating or worse for a MI plant to be shuttered.
Tough call, and I am sure GM put a lot of thought into the decision, well, at least I would expect that they did.
+5
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:50 am)Yes. Many people see the UAW as the reason why American cars need more repairs than foreign cars.
I remember, many years ago, when the Union was fighting with one of the domestics. Cars were being shipped with bent steering wheels, r-v-mirrors torn off, etc.. People wondered, what is screwed up that I can’t see.
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:51 am)Way to go GM!
I hope this is only the beginning of bringing manufacturing back to US soil.
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:59 am)“…but I guess it is closer to ‘home’ and to Pontiac, I’m sure they have done the math on it.”
I nearly spilled my coffee when I read this optimistic leap of faith from Statik. Perhaps you were up late last night watching “Touched by an Angel?”.
=D~~~~
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:00 am)Hi
I am an older retired person , who has been watching the volt web site with a hole lot of intrust .
Like so many the cost must be affordable . This is where it gets a bit blurred to me . Do to my income off
of investments ,most tax free I end up with a zero tax to pay at tax time . This being the case how will I
be able to benefit from the government incentive program ? When you get that rebait off of tax owed . I know
this is a question for the government , but I must not be the only person in this spot . Any Ideas ?
Don Oyler
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:03 am)#5 PLJ:
Right on brother! I sure hope so. I devoutly believe that there are armies of the faithful out there, just looking for the right connection to GM’s fabulous heritage. You should see our 1917 Chevy speedster. Now that’s styling, LOL.
As to the Aveo, it doesn’t sell because it just does not stack up against the competition. End of story. With the additional advantage of “Made In USA”, I an really hopeful that this car will achieve GM’s goals. I will certainly be very interested.
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:04 am)Yeah man. Can you just picture the tweaked up sporty version, a la the brilliant Cobalt SS? Turbo anyone?
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:06 am)Any idea what the price tag on this car would be? MPG?
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:09 am)hi Don O.
Many here agree with you. It’s time for part owner of GM (Uncle Sam) to step up and change the “tax credit” to “instant green rebate”.
This is a cost saving measure in that all of the manpower and the forms and the waiting can be avoided. Our pockets have been emptied with TARP. Uncle Sam can surely offer us this pittance.
yes we can?
=D~
-6
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:12 am)Is concession another word for socialism? Sure sounds like it to me. Is this really the right way to start the new GM? With a product that must sell at a loss? If it can sell for a profit then I retract this post.
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:25 am)Spark photo with models…
http://garfwod.250free.com/spark_girls.jpg
=D~
+3
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:38 am)2PLJ:
90% of market?
US-produced anything (not just cars) will never ever ever get 90% of market again.
Why? Little history: 1950 was just 5 years after WW2 was finished. Europe was nothing but smoking ruins, Japan too, somewhere even irradiated.
US lost 418.000 killed. That’s a lot.
But other countries lost a “little bit” more (Soviet Union, for example ~ 23.100.000 people killed only during the war).
Asia was extremely poor and couldn’t produce anything. It was mostly US investments, which made Asia what it is now. But that was much much later. Something around 70-th, if I remember correctly.
Ps. I am wrong. There is one way for US to gain 90% of market again: WW3, which must destroy ALL world’s but US industry.
Do we really want such madness?
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:46 am)To really pump up sales numbers, GM should strike while the fire is HOT !
GM should put a small engraved gold plate on the dash of every vehicle on the dealer lots. The plate should read “Michael Jackson Commemorative Edition”.
Each glove box would contain a single sequined driving glove.
/ engaging anti-flame shields……
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:47 am)How does making a small car type in the USA that people have been asking for and saying GM needs = socialism.
Expletives deleted.
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:51 am)You jumped the gun by saying “Dynamite Styling.” Lyle’s post gives no indication of the B-car’s physical appearance.
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:58 am)Way to stay on top of things
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:00 pm)I doubt those models will hold up in crash testing
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:00 pm)It sounds like GM is betting on higher gas prices now, like everyone else.
Here’s an old article before gas prices were even high in the US about Toytota’s Yaris sales in Europe.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/10511308222/toyota-yaris-in-depth
The Toyota Yaris sold over 250,000 a year in 2005 and represents 1/4th of Toyota’s annual sales? How could GM resist that market?
-1
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:00 pm)ROFL!
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:01 pm)GM – You want to pump up some interest and sales? Use your battery knowledge and make this new subcompact a pure EV with a no frills trim level.
I know, you’re not ready for that yet.
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:08 pm)I’m 6′; take the kids to school/daycare everyday; I just got back from getting about 500 pounds of landscaping material from Home Depot. Last week it was fencing.
I drive a Mini Cooper.
Look, subcompacts aren’t for everyone, but they’re usually hatchbacks, and hatchbacks incredibly useful. I have a roof rack and heavy-duty tie-downs. When I have heavy things I fold down the rear and passenger seats and I’ve got almost an eight-foot long interior from windshield to trunk. And when I’m not doing light-truck duty it gets 35 mpg. For the times I *really* need a truck, I rent one.
I kinda think the impulse that makes people say “I could never drive a smaller car” is the same one that makes them say “I could never drive an electric car, what about the days I have to drive 250 miles?”
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:12 pm)Replace the Aveo in 2010 with a gas powered Spark.
Then bring us the all-electric model in 2011.
That would be my plan.
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:13 pm)I must admit I drive a compact out of economic reasons but I would never buy a sub-compact they are just too small. I also need a truck for hauling and would love to see a long-bed pickup or van based on the Volt drive train. I keep a vehicle about 12 years and rarely buy new. I was seriously thinking about buying a new Volt when the original price was $25-30000.
____________________
I’m pretty much with you there. I drive a small car because I don’t usually need anything bigger. I have an old truck to haul things once in a while. GM said they were using a new low power Bose audio unit. Some earlier comments here said configurations like speakers in the headrests may save power also. Time will tell
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:15 pm)Aren’t the actual labor costs a small fraction of total vehicle costs?
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:19 pm)This shows me GM is serious in making something that people want. May not be the best thing in the world, or good looking.
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:24 pm)No – you typed it. ; )
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:28 pm)One would think so. But it’s the total labor costs that sent GM into an uncontrolled dive into the abyss.
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:35 pm)Of course they won’t regain 90% of the world market for autos. I meant that they could become the leader again, like they were for the last 70 years until recently.
-8
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:38 pm)Yo Dmitrii,
In this part of the world we use commas, not periods to indicate 1,000′s.
You’ll be better understood if you you do as the Romans do.
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:40 pm)It should have a trailer hitch for pulling a small, enclosed cargo trailer. Imagine the functionality of having a subcompact for short commutes, but hitching up the trailer to haul bulky (but lightweight) items…or is that a bad idea?
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:46 pm)Because if they have to sell the car at a loss just because it’s a union concession that to me is just a form a socialism. It’s the worse kind because it’s not equally distributed to the population.
Tax payers do not like to support union workers. You see, some hardworking guy that is making $10 bucks an hour busting his rump and paying his taxes. Part of those taxes are then going to support this “subsidy”. He his paying for some union worker who will still make about $50 per hour to make a car that cannot possibly make a profit at those labor and other union driven costs.
Do you get it now? Amazing how a different perspective can change things.
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (12:55 pm)I really hope it is at least a Hybrid and gives 50 + MPG, or else, who cares?
-1
Jun 27th, 2009 (1:00 pm)I wonder how many posters here are reading “Orion” as oh-rye-an, like the constellation, instead of the correct way of oh-ree-an.
Jun 27th, 2009 (1:15 pm)Um, your knee might be jerking. Speaking about perspectives, where in Lyle’s post does it say that the B-cars must be sold at a loss?
Jun 27th, 2009 (1:47 pm),,,I nearly spilled my coffee when I read this optimistic leap of faith from Statik. Perhaps you were up late last night watching “Touched by an Angel?”.
=D~~~~
*********************************************************************************
So it’s NOT just me that had that reaction (lol).
Be well,
Tagamet
Lets Just Get The VOLTS Wheels On The Road!!!!!!
Jun 27th, 2009 (1:53 pm)I doubt that they’ll hold up in a strong breeze.
Sorry, but I’m done with roller skates. I’ll be very interested if in fact there IS a USA market for these. Time will tell.
Be well,
Tagamet
NPNS
Jun 27th, 2009 (2:03 pm)If you were to put a huge long decorated sheet behind that car with a bunch of guys jumping around inside it, and set off a bunch of firecrackers, it could the dragon at one of those old Chinese-New-Year parades.
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (2:25 pm)Cracking Toyota’s 35 MPH Barrier
http://evworld.com/EVWORLD_TV.CFM?storyid=1719
(or, why the volt may very well have head to head competition in the prius)
(or, series vs. series/parallel hybrids)
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (2:27 pm)You Saw it Here First
This is the link
http://autonews.gasgoo.com/auto-news/1011063/Chevy-Volt-electric-cars-to-be-built-sold-in-China.html
Chevy Volt electric cars to be built, sold in China
From:freep.comJune 26, 2009
General Motors will build the Chevrolet Volt extended-range electric car in China beginning in 2011 as part of the automaker’s plan to roll out its revolutionary technology in a wide variety of vehicles around the world, the newsletter AutoBeat Asia reports.
All Volts built in China are to be sold there.
The first Volts will be built in GM’s Detroit/Hamtramck assembly plant beginning in 2010. GM will initially export some U.S.-built Volts, but it plans to produce the car, and others using the Volt’s powertrain, around the world, when demand outstrips the Detroit plant’s capacity.
The Chinese government is aggressively promoting electric and hybrid vehicles as a way to reduce oil consumption and improve air quality in the country’s polluted cities.
China wants to have 60,000 alternative fuel vehicles on the road in 2012, up from virtually none today. Most of the vehicles will be hybrids, but the government is eager to promote pure electric vehicles.
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (2:32 pm)Nope, I still don’t get it.
Jun 27th, 2009 (2:33 pm)I think we are talking about different models.
Jun 27th, 2009 (2:33 pm)I feel badly for Janesville, only especially because I corresponded briefly on another blog with someone who resides in Janesville. They were pretty anxious there regarding this outcome. It was bound, I guess, to be as devastating for several of the mentioned communities as it is joyful for the one that “got the contract.”
On a somewhat similar note, I live in a small town. Our combined Dodge/Chevrolet dealership recently made it through both of the “cuts.” We were all a little worried. Meanwhile, a couple of hours to the North of us, another small town has lost its Chevrolet dealership of many years. I feel badly for them, even though I’m relieved that it was their’s that was designated to be shut down rather than ours.
What must be must be, but when you have even the remotest personal connection with these traumatic events it brings home how difficult they are for those whose lives are affected. In a small town such as the one I live in the thought of losing an anchor business such as a car dealership is painful. Imagine living in a factory town and losing the factory. Pretty hard.
+4
Jun 27th, 2009 (2:45 pm)“Tax payers do not like to support union workers”
I think most government workers are union workers.
Jun 27th, 2009 (2:46 pm)Tagamet:
The Yaris, Fit and Versa seem to be selling pretty well here. You even see a few Aveos, but their gas mileage just isn’t competetive. So I have high hopes for this car, if it shows up before the above come out with some killer new generation and blow it away again.
Recently I have even seen a few “20 somethings” with great big “rims” and low profile tires on Yarises. The wheels and tires probably cost more than the car, LOL. Oh well, here in SoCal we have companies that will rent you the big fancy “rims”. I’m not making this up. “Rent-A-Rim”. No kidding. Lease to buy, I guess?
Jun 27th, 2009 (2:51 pm)Or hybrid? I have heard a lot about a Fit hybrid. If it was light enough and had a modern (6 speed?) automatic, maybe even the BAS could put up some pretty impressive numbers. Yeah, I know. Wash my mouth out with soap.
-1
Jun 27th, 2009 (2:52 pm)Guilty as charged. Thank you Comrade.
Jun 27th, 2009 (2:53 pm)How about a bunch of those models?
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (3:05 pm)God Bless. Another American made car for the future. Sure beats the daily headlines of “outsourced, overseas, not here, manufacturing.”
CHEVY VOLT: American-made, American-FUELED. Can’t wait.
-4
Jun 27th, 2009 (3:27 pm)Here we go again. Make decision based on politics and not sound business principles. Keep going GM. Rape the taxpayer of more billion$. How much do you bloodsucking vampires want from us. At least this should be a more affordable car than the Volt. Of course it would be much cheaper if it was made in China. If it gets more than 50 mpg than most be will buy it over a Volt anyways. The decision making by American companies is just astounding. No wonder your country is in a deep recession.
Jun 27th, 2009 (3:28 pm)Tag,
Didn’t see your reply. Good to here from you. I couldn’t wait, so I converted my Prius to a PHEV a few months ago. It is REALLY coool! Understanding both cars, however, you should know, it’s still not a Volt!
Hang in there.
George
=D~~~~ LJGTVWOTR
-15
Jun 27th, 2009 (3:30 pm)(click to show comment)
Jun 27th, 2009 (3:36 pm)I grew up around and still live within 5 miles of this plant, and am glad to see a future for this plant. Right now it’s the G6 and malibu that come out of there. I hope Chevy gets this car right! Based on size and based on the fact that the larger Cruze is supposed to get near, at, or slightly above 40 MPG, this thing better beat a honda fit in MPG and quality. Best of luck!
Jun 27th, 2009 (3:42 pm)I think it’s in the eyes, …err… headlights.
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (3:51 pm)Idiot! A battery ain’t fuel. He’s talking about the electrons and where the CAR is built. Crawl back into your cave.
-1
Jun 27th, 2009 (3:51 pm)Wow , a Prius running 72mph in all-electric mode, very nice. But I especially like the statement that Parallel Hybrid has many advantages over Series Hybrid. Ford Motor Co. seems to agree with this too. It looks like the Volt may have blown a gasket by choosing Series Hybrid design.
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (3:52 pm)What were GM’s past politically motivated decisions that landed them in BK?
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (3:55 pm)Good Decision. As much as the U.S. needs some jobs, everybody knows that manufacturing expertise left our shores years ago. China has far superior manufacturing facilities and much larger expert labor force to get the job done. This just makes good business sense on so many levels. Bravo GM.
-1
Jun 27th, 2009 (4:01 pm)You must work for GM. You sound like some of the folks at my latest GM conference call.
Jun 27th, 2009 (4:03 pm)Wasn’t it already discussed on this site a month or so ago that GM would be selling (and eventually building) Volts in China? This then spun off a bunch of debates about Gov $ for jobs going overseas. Oops.. nm, i dont want to go there.
-9
Jun 27th, 2009 (4:07 pm)Drop the Hate. You must have been standing in the wrong line when they was passing out brains. And Stop the name calling please.
Jun 27th, 2009 (4:08 pm)GM is moving a lot of its engineers to the Orion plant right now. Someone i know is even getting relocated from the Saginaw foundry plant.
Jun 27th, 2009 (4:13 pm)Sir, you might want to tighten up a few of those screws, if you can find them that is.
+3
Jun 27th, 2009 (4:18 pm)Huh???
Vitriol cuts both ways, Dude. You call someone a D-bag for being patriotic and then can’t take it?
-1
Jun 27th, 2009 (4:23 pm)This tiny car should be made in Korea or China, not USA. The reason GM failed and lost more than $80 billion in the last 5 years was because of their North American operations (NOT because of overseas operations !). If they had moved the majority of their manufacturing to China five years ago they would not have been bankrupt. These is easy math. Even a caveman could figure it out. GM management was just plain ignorant and stupid. I am sorry but these facts need to be repeated often in order to penetrate the dense arrogant heads of most Americans.
Jun 27th, 2009 (4:24 pm)This from a guy knocking back vodka shots in Moscow?
-8
Jun 27th, 2009 (4:28 pm)I am fairly sure that the Volt’s 1.4L engine will be made in Europe buddy -ro. The last time I checked Austria was not in America. So, drop the American-Made crap, you have lost all credibility hoss.
Jun 27th, 2009 (4:33 pm)Just returned from a car show. There were Cobra’s , Z28, and all sorts of street rods presented. The new Camaro was also there. Needless to say it attracted a large crowd. Really looks good in silver.
BTW: Wore my gm volt dot com shirt and received several knowing grins. Mostly from pretty ladies. Maybe I’m just a babe magnet.
=D~
-6
Jun 27th, 2009 (4:39 pm)The Volt is destined to be a girl car. Check the numbers on Camaro sales, overwhelmingly female owners. I also noticed that most Prius owners are women or gay, not that there is anything wrong with that.
Jun 27th, 2009 (4:47 pm)Most Prius owners I know are woman and/or Republicans.
=D~
Jun 27th, 2009 (5:14 pm)What kind of anti-theft options are available on the Volt ?
Will a Taser be an option on the Volt ?
I need at least a mild electrocution setting on my Volt to ward of possible intruders. 720 VDC and a few milliamps should be able to convey the correct message to anyone violating my Volt’s protective perimeter.
-3
Jun 27th, 2009 (5:17 pm)You grew up in this hood. I’m sorry to hear that. However that does explain a lot.
+7
Jun 27th, 2009 (5:19 pm)Oh, I’m sure that _some_ taxpayers like to support union workers – probably the very same taxpayers who ARE union workers
I’m retired, but over the course of my working years, I wore all three hats (union, non-union, management). Overall, while the union did provide me with certain benefits, they also took a big part of it back in the form of dues and unnecessary strikes, and when it came to moving on up, seniority would always manage to trump workers with a go-get’em, good-work-ethic attitude. In this era of a global economy, if we can’t be competitive here, companies will just ship those jobs to low-wage countries (heck, low-wage STATES). I think that unions are pretty much going down the path of certain organizations, such as the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) and the United Nations – useful years ago, but not really all that useful today.
+3
Jun 27th, 2009 (5:20 pm)Oh, Big Dog, you are cute. Where is Hammertrack? And by the way, the engine’s, other than the very early ones will be made in Flint.
http://gm-volt.com/2009/02/24/gm-confirms-chevy-volt-engine-to-be-built-at-flint-michigan-plant-after-all/
You are right that a plenty of parts will be build overseas but that is that same for every mass produced car in every nation. The Volt, being assembled and designed in the US will be as much an American made by any trade definition. I get it, your mad at GM and think they are FOS. There is a lot of truth there, but the Volt is a good thing regardless.
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (5:22 pm)I would say those people generally buy used cars.
Jun 27th, 2009 (5:37 pm)Well, this upgrade will run you $12,500 over and above the cost of the Prius. I’ll just wait for the Volt, thank you.
By the way, I love this bit of reasoning from Plug In Conversions’ FAQ section:
Question:
How much does the electricity cost to charge the car?
Answer:
Grid produced electricity costs about 2 cents per EV mile depending on your electric rates. Of course, charging with electricity produced by a solar energy system is even better.
Let’s just all overlook the high cost of solar panels in our analysis, which provides electricity at prices several orders of magnitude more than getting it from the grid. It’s just “even better” because we say so. Geez.
-9
Jun 27th, 2009 (5:38 pm)We don’t have the proper manufacturing expertise to handle this car. The United States is a service-based economy. We are no longer manufacturing based. Please don’t try to turn the clock back. We have been done with manufacturing since like 20 years ago. If the government is really dead set on this, than why don’t we bring back the steel mills and the textile factories and … Get Over It… we don’t want or need these kinds of low intelligence jobs. Skill Up.
Jun 27th, 2009 (5:38 pm)It is ironic to way “In this part of the world we use commas” on the www ….
Jun 27th, 2009 (5:56 pm)This blog post reminded me of another blog post – one that catered to a different industry (computers). Robert X. Cringley speculates on what the U S auto industry would be like with Steve Jobs (Apple, Inc.) at the helm. Very interesting reading, even though it was from last December.
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2008/pulpit_20081207_005508.html
Jun 27th, 2009 (6:04 pm)The USA is the part of the world this website deals with, like it or not.
We’re talking about MICHIGAN here aren’t we?
Jun 27th, 2009 (6:08 pm)Total labor is about 24 man-hours, 9 are GM and the rest are the subcontractors that sell parts to GM.. non-big 3 are about 19 man-hours total, cost for the big 3 was about $73 and $48 per hour for the non-big 3. That may have changed now after the bankruptcy.
No idea what the labor cost for GM’s subcontractors was.
All cars, big or small, require about the same amount of labor.
Jun 27th, 2009 (6:11 pm)Coffee I agree I also have been on all sides.
Personaly I don’t care if the workers are union or not, It is the product that matters.
Jun 27th, 2009 (6:15 pm)question: What country is the number one Manufacturing? Who manufactures more then any other country?
Look it up you just may be surprised.
This link might help http://investing.curiouscatblog.net/2008/09/23/top-manufacturing-countries-in-2007/
+5
Jun 27th, 2009 (6:29 pm)Skill up? To what? Pushing papers around on Wall Street and ruining the economy?
A nation is wealthy to the degree that they MAKE things, whether it is food, cars or whatever.
Sure, let the poor countries make the no-brainer stuff. They have to make something too. But the USA must manufacture the complicated things that take huge investment and know-how to do.
Like the Chevy Volt.
Jun 27th, 2009 (6:56 pm)Congrats George! Glad to hear you’re on board (electric engine and plug-in wise).
Question, how many miles all electric do you get? What is the top speed you can drive before the gasser kicks in?
Jun 27th, 2009 (7:05 pm)I was actually reading at is Or-yin, rhymes with onion.
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (7:13 pm)Whatever it takes to get our jobs back here in America.
You go GM.
Dan.
Jun 27th, 2009 (7:23 pm)Wouldn’t that be Spasiba? (Спасибо)
Gotta love all the language translators on the web… I’ve forgotten so much from my military days during the tail end of the “cold war.”
Jun 27th, 2009 (7:31 pm)This article illustrates why the auto industry should be run by auto guys, and not apple nerds. Considering their products do not allow you to use universal media formats such as SD , do not have removable batteries, and limit purchase of third-party software, you can image what the car would be like.
-2
Jun 27th, 2009 (7:43 pm)Wrong Answer.
America is a very protectionist country. It is a Global Economy people. Time to wake up. You are already paying a heavy price for your protectionist way. With the rise of Asia on the Horizon your past actions will come back to haunt you. Free and Fair trade is where it is at my little brother. The rest of the World trades this way, why won’t America. It looks like the rest of the world is going to have to teach you a lesson my little friend out west it is time for your spanking.
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (8:10 pm)hi Rick W,
Friend, the regulars appreciate seeing new folks post on the Volt site. Stick with GM Volt dot com and you’ll see the progress of Volt testing and development. It’s moving along faster than expected.
We’re getting the EREV Volt on the road and in the garages of the world. Glad you have decided to plug in.
=D~
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (8:23 pm)I think it is an excellent idea for the Chinese to go as fast as possible to get VOLTec vehicles on the road. This benefits us directly because less air pollution would be hitting the Northwestern States.
Anything the Chinese can do for as huge that country is, is an outstanding thing for everyone else on the planet. Period.
Dan.
Jun 27th, 2009 (8:31 pm)This is hilarious. You must be best friends with Aikeo (pronounced “ache – eee – owwww”).
LOL.
(Ahem);
Hey Lyle, how is that Mini-E going? Did you get it repaired regarding it’s difficulties after the water you drove through?
(Ahem).
Dan.
Jun 27th, 2009 (8:44 pm)Congrats on the Prius conversion! Now you don’t need to wind it up as often (lol). “m TRYING to wait for the Volt, but I may need to get a (very) used Prius to hold me over. Our two vehicles have over a third of a million miles, so either may die tomorrow (or not)(g).
We REALLY need another VoltNation meeting! I’d love to see your vehicle.
Be well,
Tagamet
NPNS!
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (8:48 pm)Anybody interested in knowing how wrong “Ricky W” is can read this excellent article:
http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html
It is a great read and an eye opener.
-1
Jun 27th, 2009 (8:51 pm)Sure they’ll lose money on every sale, but the’ll make it up in volume, that’s always been GM management strategy. Now that they have an endless supply of money from the union controlled government it might just work!
+2
Jun 27th, 2009 (8:55 pm)If we are done with manufacturing then we are done as an economic power as the service industries DO NOT create national wealth. Do you think that ALL developing countries want to get into manufacturing because they want dirty air and water? Not hardly, they want to get in on the transfer of our wealth to other countries.
Jun 27th, 2009 (8:56 pm)Just to clarify, Apple’s new 13″ and 15″ MacBook Pro models DO have built-in SD slots, and for those models that don’t, you can buy something like a Belkin Universal Media Reader that plugs into the USB slot.
The fact that their MacBook Pro batteries are not removable was a design decision weighing one set of factors against another, much like how engineers who designed the Volt decided upon a 40 mile electric range. Going the non-removable route, Apple could use thin lithium-polymer batteries (www.apple.com/macbookpro/battery) with significantly higher capacity, all without increasing the size or weight of the laptop. Testing firm NPD’s research indicated that fewer than 5% of laptop owners carried a spare battery, so Apple decided to aim at this larger target.
Finally, I have no idea of what you mean by “limit purchase of third-party software.” If you mean that Mac owners have a smaller number of third-party software titles to choose from because they are a smaller platform, I’ll grant you that. However, my Intel-powered Mac can (and does all the time, in fact) run Microsoft Windows with whatever Windows-specific software I need. It can run Windows full speed using Apple’s Boot Camp solution, which is part of the operating system, or you can buy third-party solutions that let you run Windows in a virtualization environment (about 90% of full speed, but side-by-side with the Mac operating system, including file transfer and cut/copy/paste). So, with a Mac, you can run all of the software written specifically for a Mac, plus all of the software written specifically for Windows (or Linux or DOS or whatever, since the virtual environments can easily switch from one to another) – hardly limiting.
If you get the chance, you should go into one of Apple’s 258 retail stores. Every year, they win awards for being the best retailer for ANY PRODUCT, they are at or near the top of the retail world in dollars generated per square foot, they still have massive crowds whenever a new store opens, they offer free support at their Genius Bars, and they always seem to win awards for best customer satisfaction (www.eweek.com/c/a/Mobile-and-Wireless/Apple-Beats-HP-and-Dell-In-Customer-Satisfaction-Study-Finds-453807/), all while selling premium-priced products.
So obviously I disagree with your statement. I think that the auto industry could learn MASSIVELY from a company like Apple.
+3
Jun 27th, 2009 (9:01 pm)My guess is you have no knowledge of how trade works. Go to a store of your choice and try to find products made in the USA. If we were protectionest then the stores would be full of our products. We may be the only country that actually has free trade and those like me want that to end and to start having fair trade where we treat all of our trade partners as each one treats us.
Jun 27th, 2009 (9:03 pm)I was talking about the wheeled and non-wheeled kind (serious eating disorder candidate).
Be well,
Tagamet
NPNS
Jun 27th, 2009 (9:04 pm)Might that be inflluenced by the recent ecconomy?
Be well,
Tagamet
NPNS*********** LJGTVWOTR!!
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:24 pm)I’ve had sort of a wild idea recently; and keeping in mind that financials are not really my forte, I’ll share it for your amusement and/or comment:
What is the number one complaint of US automakers concerning small cars? There is very little margin or profit in the sale: it costs a lot to make a good small car, and not all that much more for a larger car / truck which will sell for a much higher price (yielding a larger profit). Am I close?
As long as we now live in an environment where the Government is throwing out money left and right anyway, why not have them pay a bounty back to the manufacturer for the sale of any domestically produced car which meets or surpasses a defined criteria for small, efficient cars. I emphasize sale in order to provide an incentive for domestic makers to produce such cars that the public would want to buy. I have no doubt that the new GM could be coerced into filling dealer lots with “Chevette II”, but not selling any. By basing the bounty on the sale, it may be something closer to a domestic competitor to Honda Fit and other popular foreign makes.
How different is this from paying farmers not to grow wheat? It’s more targeted than the current broadcast cash spill currently in progress (and may turn out to be a more efficient means of throwing money to get a particular result).
/Flame On!!!
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:37 pm)Hey, CS Guy.
It’s the Hymotion implementation. I get about 20 miles all electric or 30 miles mixed (averaging 100 mpg). About 4 1/2 hours to recharge.
-At 60 mph, I get 100 mpg!(that’s mixed mode). Of course, accelerating to 60 costs a little gas.
-My current tank is 4/5th full. I have 470 miles on the tank. It holds about 11 gal.
-Top speed is about 50 in all electric mode, tho you have 2 b a right lane driver to get up to 50 w/o gas kicking in.
It is truely a BLAST!!! And the Volt will be even better.
What’s your story, Mr Guy?
+1
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:43 pm)” I have no doubt that the new GM could be coerced into filling dealer lots with “Chevette II”, but not selling any. By basing the bounty on the sale, it may be something closer to a domestic competitor to Honda Fit and other popular foreign makes.”
I’m really tired. Let me take another stab at that:
I have no doubt that the new GM could be coerced into filling dealer lots with 100,000 “Chevette II”s, and find it difficult to sell more than a few thousand. By basing a government bounty on sold units, the small cars may be less “Chevette” and more “Honda Fit” (competitive with popular foreign small cars).
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:49 pm)I am sorry but I think this is Just to little to late.JMHO
Take Care
Arch
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:56 pm)Hey, Tag!
Tanks. Yes, I replaced the wind-up key with a plug.
As I said to CS Guy, it is a real blast.
It would be great to see people again at a Volt nation. This time I’ll bring my bus. cards.
If you got the Prius, would you do a conversion, as well? It’s pretty fun to try to max. mileage in the regular Prius. It’s about 1/2 way to a volt if you know how to do it.
=D~~~~
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:00 pm)Tesla designs their show rooms to look like the Apple stores and even mentions that fact on their web site / news releases. Perhaps GM can follow Apple’s lead and write “Designed in Michigan” in all future owner’s manuals world-wide.
-1
Jun 27th, 2009 (11:00 pm)Can I plug it in? No? Then don’t care. Sorry.
Jun 28th, 2009 (12:49 am)(Side Complaint)
I was very disappointed in the Transformers movie tonite. The VOLT was only shown in a split-second rear bumper shot, and it’s character “Jolt” is only mentioned by name once in another split-second shot.
The Chevy “Spark” was characterized so badly, he made ‘Jar Jar Binks’ look like a college professor.
It sure didn’t make me excited about the new batch of GM cars.
Is it just me or is this one gonna backfire on them?
Jun 28th, 2009 (3:04 am)Saw transformers tonight as well. Pretty sure GM didn’t do themselves any favors with that movie. The Volt really wasn’t used at all and the prototype cars were characterized very poorly. Michael Bay may have done more damage to GM with his movie than Michael Moore did. The Camero is at least obtainable now, but what will happen when GM has to try selling their standard fare after the general public has seen the compact concepts in motion? Maybe that’s why their characters were so dumb. If you had a Beat or a Spark you’d sell it after seeing that pile, I promise.
+1
Jun 28th, 2009 (3:05 am)From the point of view of math (and we are looking from this point of view, since you are “mathchecker”, right?) or programming, both commas and dots are not correct
I used dots because I want to make my replay easier to read.
In normal situation, I would use K for thousands and KK for millions, but I wasn’t sure that somebody except engineers and programmers would understand what I mean.
+1
Jun 28th, 2009 (3:10 am)I’ll put this one up again, sometimes new info sinks in slowly.
jeffhre Reply:
June 24th, 2009 at 6:21 pm
Interesting occurrences in domestic solar energy.
The prices for home solar have come down as demand for all things silicon suffers in the recession. If you live in a sunbelt state with incentives there is really good news.
Some lenders are accepting rebates and credits as down payments and structuring the payments to be equal to or less than the energy bills that will be replaced. There are groups forming to get discounts from suppliers and installers, and the value of the houses immediately appreciates to account for the lower monthly costs/energy inflation hedge. Helpful for folks who lost a lot of value in their homes the last couple of years.
This is like having solar panels on your Volt, only in a more cost effective way, AND not going to the gas station much at all, increasing the value of your house AND supplying your own home plus automotive energy.
Jun 28th, 2009 (3:31 am)Summary of above;
1) No down Payment for areas with incentives.
2) Utility bill could be eliminated with costs equal or less than old electricity bills.
3) Provides a hedge against energy cost inflation/tax increases = No increase in energy costs for the 15 to 25 year life of system.
4) Energy for home and car paid for using energy that is pollution/carbon/imported oil free.
5) Value of home increased by thousands or tens of thousands of dollars depending on energy savings and system replacement value.
6) Independence.
Where do you think the billions of dollars in costs for new conventional power plants comes from, the powerplant ferry? It’s amortized over time just like solar panels could be.
Could you show us some examples of systems, “which provides electricity at prices several orders of magnitude more than getting it from the grid, ” so that we can all avoid those!
Jun 28th, 2009 (3:38 am)Texas
May be helpful to crack open a dictionary and look up socialism.
-1
Jun 28th, 2009 (3:54 am)My sentiments exactly!
+1
Jun 28th, 2009 (3:58 am)Roger and Me is a classic. I had never heard of Michael Moore before it.
Jun 28th, 2009 (4:32 am)Well jeffhre, How about we go over it together, shall we? I think you will find you need to do some more research on the subject.
so·cial·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\ Function: noun Date: 1837
1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done
Now, socialism means many things to different people and countries. You will find that out if you decide to do some research. However, definition three is the closest one I was talking about – the distribution of goods and pay.
If a U.S. worker is willing to take a job tightening lug nuts for $10 per hour but cannot because the company is forced to pay some union worker $70 per hour because of an overpowering union then something is wrong. Don’t you agree? This is not that perfect and free market we are hoping to achieve.
That’s not the worse part. A strong union like the UAW actually has operational decision making power. They determine where and with what technology the company uses to assemble it’s cars. If a robotic system wants to be used that will reduce the number of workers needed AND increase the quality the company can’t use it without the UAW approval. Sad, but true! Our manufacturing plants are far more advanced outside of our country! This makes me ill.
If the government indeed wants more fair distribution of wealth then they should try to make it as fair as possible. Is there anyone out there that thinks the UAW is a fair way to distribute wealth? If you know someone then you get a great paycheck for almost no work and little training. If you don’t, sorry fella.
Oh, and if you haven’t noticed, our government does own and controls two of our three big auto manufactures.
Jun 28th, 2009 (5:52 am)Hi Noel and others,
Vauxhall UK sister of Opel is prepaing an all electric TRIXX, in French :
http://news.autoplus.fr/news/1219027/citadine-electrique-Trixx-Vauxhall-Opel-Concept
in English :
http://www.motorauthority.com/opel-planning-electric-city-car-based-on-trixx-concept.html
Regards to all
JC NPNS
Jun 28th, 2009 (5:59 am)Sorry, GM —IMO this car is UGLY! Want to see a beautiful design? Go to Lyle’s new post at his new site, “AllCarsElectric.com”, where I tried (but wasn’t able) to post the following comment about BMW’s gorgeous new EV “City” car (http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1021805_bmws-mini-e-program-will-lead-to-new-bmw-city-electric-car-in-2012)…..
“AT LAST!!! A world-class automobile company is designing a small, practical EV for city dwellers that does NOT look like a giant disfigured insect! Hopefully, it truly will “be less expensive than the BMW 1 series or MINI Cooper” as Lyle says there. Well-engineered, handsomely-styled and affordable?!?!
KUDOS to BMW if they actually build it, and to you Lyle for telling us about this little beauty!!!”
Jun 28th, 2009 (6:08 am)No, impressive numbers are possible.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/03/geneva-08-previe-saab-9-x-biohybrid-concept/
For the combined cycle, this Saab concept with the BAS+ hybrid system gets 4.9l/100 km, or 48 mpg! And this is with a turbocharged 1.4L engine (Volt’s engine with turbo).
Jun 28th, 2009 (6:28 am)So the drive motors come from China , the controllers come from China , the glass comes from America , the steel comes from China and America , The engine comes from Austria , the wheels and tires come from America , the batteries come from Korea , but they are assembled by Americans , so what ,
The Volt is an American car even if it is made in China .
GM s head office is in America and it was designed by an Indian . It is still an American car
-1
Jun 28th, 2009 (6:46 am)Check the plot, not for long. By 2009 or 2010 China will surpass US.
Jun 28th, 2009 (6:47 am)None so far. I’m waiting till the Highlander engine craps out (or I win the lotto). Then I’ll either trade it in for an EV/ER-EV or have it converted to all-electric drive.
In the past 6 years we have traveled over 100 miles in a day exactly 5 times. That to me is a very compelling argument for EV with 100 mile range and against paying for the privilege to lug around 400+ pounds of gasser engine and all its poisonous fluids and hoses/wires, etc., that would be completely unnecessary in an EV.
In addition to not really needing range past 40 miles daily, on the odd days (vacation, business, etc.) that we might need to go cross country we don’t take our car anyway. We started renting cars for big trips and a truck for heavy hauling years back. I’d rather drive someone else’ car into the ground by driving across the state in 100 degree weather than my own.
Jun 28th, 2009 (6:53 am)While Apple builds a good computer, there are horrendous conditions in automotive electrical systems that are ignored and are completely unknown by nearly everyone nowadays.
Apple would not be at all any better at providing anything to automotive applications.
Based on the way that I have seen Apple construct things internally within their computers: Apple would be the first company I would ask to do their own work on live automotive applications within very long longitudinal field studies using Underwriters Labs. (Especially when we are talking about high voltages).
Automotive is THE nastiest environment for electronics. Apple has no expertise here whatsoever. Nor does anyone else who hasn’t had to trace software and computer hardware faults and their causes in 20 degree to 115 degree service bays for 7 hours a day.
You can not just toss a collection of electronics or parts into a car and expect miracles to occur every minute of every day. (Yet this is how some shops actually expect to continue to operate because their managerial and marketer self-perceived “intentions are seriously good”),
GM does it the right way everyday in dedicated labs, and has been proving-out their software and hardware designs everyday since (even before)1977 when they had to test Computer Combustion Control systems.
Turning over your electronics and software engineering responsibilities to an outside country or competitor is highly unwise. Because the first thing that they all will work hardest to cover up and lie about is their technologically-obscene incompetence to serve you well, or, cover up their competence to financially use you up and destroy you completely.
Dan Petit
Jun 28th, 2009 (7:53 am)Playing with their toys.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10273210-48.html
Take Care
Arch
Jun 28th, 2009 (8:17 am)Cool!
There’s going to be some stiff competition coming from Ford in the small-car segment with the Euro-spec Fiesta and Focus, so it’s good to see GM gearing up. I’m pretty sure I’ll win in the end…
+1
Jun 28th, 2009 (8:20 am)I don’t think the suggestion is that Apple would be perfect for auto manufacturing. The idea is the culture of Apple – inventiveness (the PC and GUI, etc., etc.), fanatical attention to design and quality. Apple is one of the greatest companies America has produced, and is an example of American uniqueness.
Jun 28th, 2009 (8:23 am)Excellent!
Now, Back to
Jeffhre Reply:
June 27th, 2009 at 11:47 am
How does making a small car type in the USA that people have been asking for and saying GM needs = socialism.
Jun 28th, 2009 (8:33 am)I hope it’s going to be as attractive as they say, and I’m expecting a minimum of 25/35 and would be very excited to see a 30/40 fuel economy! But at the same time….. that’s still 2 years away and I’ll have my volt in another 2 years or so, so I doubt I’ll car much for this car.
+2
Jun 28th, 2009 (8:56 am)I would argue that the issue here is a form of facism. “a form of government control over business and labour”. Basically, the govt allowing big business to operate but telling them how and where to do it.
This little car would be built in Korea if GM were running its own business. It was pressure from the Govt. that moved this vehicle to Detroit. Now the production of the car will cost more and possilby, to make it competetive, some corners will have to be cut (think more cheap plastic).
Will it be a world class car to compete with the tiny cars from Toyota and Honda. Probably not.
As for Govt. control. If I bailed GM out, I would want some control too.
One answer to avoid Govt. meddling would be to let them go through the normal bankruptcy process as our laws permit. In this case, the Unions (who supported O in the election) would not be moved to the front of the line for money over the bond holders. They would have been forced to take much larger cuts and GM would eventually end up more competive.
My prediction. This little car will not sell well and the taxpayers will loose money. This is a work program for the lost city of Detroit.
Jun 28th, 2009 (9:01 am)We have all of the manufacturing expertise to make this car. It simply costs too much to do so in our country. Think Unions and Lawyers (And now add soaring energy costs to fight CO2).
It is unsustainable to have trade deficits with other countries that carry on for decades. We buy stuff from other countries as they pile up our money. Eventually, we will be completed indebted to overseas banks. They will own us.
Jun 28th, 2009 (10:11 am)I’d love to read the article, but ricky w said i grew up in the ghetto, so i guess i can’t read it after all….since i’m illiterate. Anyone got any crack?
Jun 28th, 2009 (11:38 am)CS Guy
Sounds like a plan. Are you waiting for a 2nd gen Volt, or one of the smaller electrics coming out sooner?
“against paying for the privilege to lug around 400+ pounds of gasser engine and all its poisonous fluids and hoses/wires, etc.”
You said it! My gripe on our 100 year old technology is, what you said, plus tailpipe pollution, national security (I remember the 1973/74 Arab oil embargo), 100′s of billions of $ going to countries who hate us, and the inefficiency of carting oil thousands of miles just to be burned up and exhausted into the air of the guy driving behind you.
Electric is the way to go. Then work on cleaning up the grid w/o bankrupting the country (well, maybe that’s already happening).
=D~~~~
-1
Jun 28th, 2009 (11:40 am)It is not a lot…but a small difference is significant if you are trying to sell your car at a profit with a MSRP around $10,000, lol.
I don’t know about Herm’s numbers (I did read that Business Week article myself on it), I had heard the total “all-in” hour range was around 27-35 hours (depending) @ about $57/per, post bankruptcy, but whatever, I’m not going to get in a twist about it…I think everything is ‘up in the air’ right now, and everything is a ‘guesstimate’.
The only thing that really matters is how it relates to their competition. According to Toyota (PR talking head Mike Gross) their cost was $48. Daimler/Chrysler commissions a report in 2005, that pegged the following:
*Toyota $47.60
*Honda $42.95
*Nissan $41.97
Average of about $45.00
Napkin back math follows, read at your own peril:
On average GM took 4 hours longer in labor time to produce a car (according to themselves). So under the ‘old scenario’ (based on 33 hours for a small car) they lost about $925 ($28.50×29) in direct wages, and another $300 ($73×4 hours) for inefficiencies…for about a $1,125 penalty per car. Under ‘newGM’ you are looking at about $350 in direct labor (29x$12) and $225 (4 x $47) in inefficiences, for a new penalty of $575. As employees are bought out/retired out, this number decreases.
(I’d put margin of error at +/- $200…pretty crude figuring overall, I just wanted to do the exercise for ‘fun’)
Jun 28th, 2009 (11:56 am)Dan,
I’m an “Apple follower” much like we are all “Volt followers.” From owning the first Macintosh, to designing networks, installing and supporting thousands of Macs for a major corporation around half of the United States, to visiting their production facility in Cork, Ireland, to being flown in to Los Angeles on Apple’s dime for a major product announcement, to owning lots of stock (hence, my early retirement), I “know” Apple. And to know Apple is to know that their planning and attention to detail is like none other. Here’s a video of how they create a one-piece “unibody” enclosure for their MacBook Pro notebooks: (www.apple.com/macbookpro/#unibody). Here’s a link for how they plan and design lighting in their retail stores: (www.ifoapplestore.com/db/2009/05/29/store-lighting-is-part-of-impressive-design/). In short, they leave NOTHING to chance. Just because the post that started this thread talks about contract manufacturing doesn’t mean that Apple would simply bid out processes and then take a hands-off approach. And remember, Apple knew LITTLE OR NOTHING about the music business or the cell phone business until they decided to get into them. Look what happened – Apple is now the world’s largest retailer of music, nearly everyone has an iPod, and the iPhone is the cell phone that everyone else is trying to emulate.
Jun 28th, 2009 (12:07 pm)First Mercedes with the Smart. Then Toyota with the IQ. This looks like GM may have benefited from the deals its making with Toyota. 2010 for the IQ.
Jun 28th, 2009 (3:48 pm)Setting up a clean electronic system to transfer music is not impressive to me.
Setting up hardware to transfer voice or data is not impressive either.
Making automobiles and having to satisfy 18 Federal agencies, extreme levels of high risk technological demands, impulsive consumer demands, and on and on and on, just has nothing at all to do with what Apple does, as well-managed as Apple is.
The spirit of how Apple runs its business is outstanding for what that one particular aspect of business means (to them and the customers of that limited-function product). (Pardon my perspective here, but I think anything hand-held other than a cellphone that has audio capability is not a “necessity” product or service).
I’d toss this computer out the window in a heartbeat if it were not for the kind tolerance of this site to let me post.
As many of them as there are, Computer and audio product companies do not have any critical-mission activities that are at all comparable to what an OEM must do to make products to safely get you to work, church, and, the grocery store.
Autos are a necessity.
The Impasse: Knowing little or nothing about deep levels of Automotive technologies is exactly what is going to keep you there, knowing little or nothing about Automotive technologies.
And, there is no such thing as “jumping ahead” in Automotive without doing the actual work on live vehicles over a long period of time (longitudinal field studies).
The impasse being that nowadays, auto servicing and diagnostic work is so high risk to a businessperson, that we have arrived at a point where technologies are no longer “user serviceable” without devastating consequential damages, which inhibits many more “good people” from being able to get into the field. (Without the best training at time of hiring).
Apple’s technicians work in very nice air conditioned offices with all manner of impressive support, which is carefully prepackaged and strictly dedicated within job descriptions.
Automotive repair facility owners, for example, see marketers come into their shops every day with pre-packaged promises that do not work for them because these very same marketers have no “real world” experience whatsoever. Just flashy promises on glossy advertising.
I advise shop owners to tell them:
“You prove it works, prove it right now, prove it right here, on this vehicle over there because the customer is waiting.” AND THEN PROVE IT IS THE CORRECT DIAGNOSIS IN PROBLEM PRIORITY WORST PROBLEM FIRST, AND ON DOWN.
Most people have no comprehension of what it takes to make an automobile. (Nor for what it takes for a tech to properly diagnose one either). Techs have grown accustomed to being taken for granted, it is just the way it is.
It is extremely easy to shock the heck out of a very dedicated technician whom you certainly want to work on your car again.
If your car is serviced exceptionally-well, go over to a moderately priced nice restaurant and buy a $25 gift card (Olive Garden is a good one). Go back to that auto repair shop and ask permission to personally hand that gift card to that tech. Say, “I really appreciate your good work”, “Here is a little something”, and shake his hand and remind him of your name, the car color and type you drive, and what he did on it.
You will get the very best of service every time you come back, and then likely some small extras as well at no cost.
Getting to know your future Volt salesperson would also be a good idea as well it seems to me.
Dan.
Jun 28th, 2009 (4:47 pm)The problem with this argument is that Ford and GM make and sell great small cars in Europe.
I spent half of my trip to the UK spotting American-badged cars that I can’t buy here but that would have fit my needs better than the car that I own.
We rented one of these things, which would be a perfect match for my needs today, except for the right-hand steering:
http://www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/used/vauxhall/zafira-mpv/summary/23535-7
It can tow as much as my Ford Ranger, and has a couple of small diesel engine options available, too.
Oh, and despite having 7 seats and a rated towing capacity that’s higher than most crossovers and light pickups, it would qualify as a midsize car in the US.
+3
Jun 28th, 2009 (7:16 pm)Try to stay up jeffhre.
Here was my reply and it still applies:
“Because if they have to sell the car at a loss just because it’s a union concession that to me is just a form a socialism. It’s the worse kind because it’s not equally distributed to the population. ”
You see, everyone was hoping that due to the bankruptcy GM would now have much better union contracts that do not kill their ability to generate a profit. Thus, when we find out that they MUST build the car here, now this is the point jeffhre, they MUST, even if it would be better to build in China or in another area because building these tiny cars is extremely competitive and the margins are razor thin.
Thus, if GM is not allowed to build what they want, where they want and have to do the bidding of the UAW you can start to see what I’m talking about. Get it? A pure market driven system would not allow this to happen. Having to build these tiny cars using unionized labor to compete against the same cars being built in China using $1 / day labor is just not going to cut it.
Now, in the future when robotic systems are more advanced and the level of manual assembly labor drops (this will happen) there will be a point where it will be cheaper to build the car locally because the cost of transport will be the driving cost. However, if the strong UAW does not allow the technology to be used, GM will just slowly die away, again. All because free market principles are not used. We should not use concessions as a driver to build cars, we should be using profits and the potential to increase the wealth of the shareholder. Period.
Jun 29th, 2009 (1:00 am)I get it that you don’t like the UAW. I get it that automakers have been giving UAW concessions for 30 years that guarantee anything but big trucks and luxury cars will be unprofitable. I get it that hardly anyone likes the idea of a GM bailout that looks like the height of socialism.
I understand that anything you don’t like about GM decision making with respect to the UAW will from now on be classified under the pat and preconceived explanation of socialism because it bugs you just like socialism bugs you and that will be the explanation you use until GM disappears from the face of the earth.
What I don’t understand is anywhere you have shown a nexus, connection, bridge, adjacency or equality between GM building small cars in the US and socialism.
You see even though pat answers are comfortable in fighting something that I may not believe, what I seek is actually what really went wrong and not an opportunity to apply my disdain for an ism.
Jun 29th, 2009 (7:54 am)man u have to build a car in united states and not in countries which have slave labour. please help the local workers and workers from china or other country. whats wrong in paying higher cost for UAW rather than to pay to workers in japan or china
Jun 29th, 2009 (9:44 am)Maybe the car will be profitable. Maybe the car will have quality construction. Maybe the car will be fuel efficient. Maybe people will buy it. Maybe……………..
Jun 29th, 2009 (12:30 pm)It is widely felt that the UAW have freely ripped off the car buying public for too long. The wages paid for what is mostly unskilled labour is both both insane and unjust.
There is a line where covering a higher cost of living transitions to incrediblely expensive. The UAW ensures they are well past that line at all times.
Jun 29th, 2009 (2:20 pm)Nuke Lad, You were spot on on nailing the form of government. What I cannot understand is why the “leaders” of GM took the “bailout” knowing, they must have known, that the situation would still lead to bankruptcy which would mean that Das Stat would own much of GM. What incentive did the self serving smart guys have?
Regards to your fallout.——–Higgins and the Lads, Zeus & Apollo
Jun 29th, 2009 (3:38 pm)I hate to rain on your parade, but that car is pretty much a Prius/Volt copy design except for the butt ugly rear end. Sorry, but that is my best opinion. Maybe the technical specs will make up for its “copy” image.
I don’t disagree with the statement that the car pictured is ugly. We really did not get to see much of the BMW to tell just how it looks any different than the Prius or Volt.
Jun 29th, 2009 (3:50 pm)Moving production may have helped GM deal with the tilted playing field, but it would not have prevented 40% of all automobile sales from drying up overnight. Also, personal insults may gratify your ego, but they erode the credibility of your arguments.
Jun 29th, 2009 (3:58 pm)“Automotive is THE nastiest environment for electronics.”
You’ve obviously never heard of the aerospace industry.
Jun 29th, 2009 (4:14 pm)Is this going to be “Obama’s Car” – the car everybody needs and nobody wants?
Jun 29th, 2009 (4:23 pm)Now can someone please make an affordable 2 seater convertible electric?
Jun 30th, 2009 (1:26 am)Wake up jeffhre – issue is not size of the car. Issue is whether it is competitive. When it is not competitive, it makes a loss, and the government will have to pay for the subsidy. Everyone gets poorer and the level of wealth in society decreases. Living standards come down.
All this hardship that society has to endure, just to make unions who have POLITICAL power (via the strike) happy and well fed.
If that is not socialism, then what is?
Jun 30th, 2009 (10:42 am)So every bad decision from an untalented industrialist will be called socialism from now on? Because it’s the isms that bother you and not the fact that some pitiful managers are destroying investor wealth.
If union and management can’t negotiate profitable ventures investors should go and play tiddly winks instead of propping up failures. And you could be helping by putting the blame for those failures where they lie, instead of getting your rant on about some musty old European failed experiments and scary ism’s that go boo in the night.