I have seen the electric car promised land.
This month I became one of the first people outside of GM to visit the pre-production operations (PPO) facility at a time where the first genuine Chevy Volts, called integration vehicles (IVers) were being assembled.
The PPO plant was vast though moderate in size relative to full automotive production plants which can occupy several million square feet. Within it were two assembly lines each likely about 500 feet long along which the cars were being built by hand.
The day I was there was only 12 days after the first car was begun. At that point there were four Volt vehicles in various stages of construction. One was white, one was black, and two were gray. The paint on the surface was primer.
The sheet metal skeletons of the vehicles arrive there from the pre-production body shop, there 1000 or so pieces already welded together with hoods and hatchback in place.
The cars are built from the Volt math models developed by design and engineering. Little fit variations or flaws are detected such as for example the fit of the hood or rear window, and then are hand corrected for the next iteration.
The body shells were unmistakably Volts and seeing them in the flesh drove home more than anything the reality of these cars and this program in a deep and more meaningful way than ever before.
The most advanced or “lead” vehicle was fitted with many components including a high to low voltage converter and electrohydraulic brakes. None had their lithium-ion T-packs yet. In the lead vehicle the interior was nearly complete along with leather seats and the beautiful center console in jet black. White or black will be options. The heated leather seats were two-tone and looked great. I was told cloth seats would also be an potion.
I actually saw the electric motor-generator sitting on a wood table. Within it I was told are two motors. One was to turn the driveshaft and to recapture kinetic energy during deceleration (112 kw), and the other acts a a generator (53 kw) while the engine was running. Together the object was strikingly compact and a testament to the space advantages of electric cars. Volt Chief engineer Andrew Farah noted it was about the size of a conventional transmission, something this car wouldn’t need.
Another black Volt had just been put through a heavy water soaking to check for leaks in the design which could then be corrected.
These cars, unlike the mules before them, also had soundproofing installed onto the frame ensuring a very quiet ride.
There will be some changes from the show car which we have all seen, but these are 100% production intent.
One notable change was the location of the charge port. Now it will have its own door like a fuel tank and site below the front nameplate. The sliding cover design was abandoned due to risks of mechanical failure. The top surface of the center console was somewhat different too with some design tweaks and a storage area with trap door.
In the end, this facility will crank out 5 to 10 cars per week for a final goal of 80 to 100 vehicles. All of the learning here, the fixing of slight errors, and refinement of the assembly plan will lead early next year to the first assembled cars called validation builds on the Detroit-Hamtramck line where the production Volts will finally be built for sale. That plant has the capacity if needed to make up to 200,000 cars per year.
As of now the first fully built Chevy Volt IVers have rolled off this small assembly line and are being lab tested prior to their actual first drives. In the video below you can see Volt chief engineer Andrew Farah giving a tease and sitting in the true Volt about to go for “a shakedown drive.”
And so without any doubt the Volt has truly been born and its arrival into public production for launch in November 2010 appears at this point an absolute certainty.
-67
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:08 am)(click to show comment)
+8
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:14 am)Camaro with a range extender. I like it I’ll take mine in black.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:15 am)I am so jealous right now.
I think I remember reading that GM expected to have the first integration vehicle operational by July 1st. Are they still on schedule? Lyle, when exactly did you visit the plant? Based on your description, it seems like they still had a good bit to do to make the first one operational.
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:16 am)Lyle – Thanks for the update. Real progress!
+11
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:17 am)Lyle, thanks so much for this comprehensive report on the main thing that brings us here everyday. It’s great to hear about their ability to build 5 or more per weak right off the bat, as opposed to how long it took Tesla Motors.
We are about to be awash in Volts.
+8
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:25 am)Did I hear a plugin Camaro?? Now that’s exciting
+13
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:31 am)Why is GM going to so much effort for vaporware? A new battery lab, 100 integration vehicles, all this testing. This is one of the most elaborate PR stunts I have ever seen.
Great report, Lyle. Looking forward to your updates.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:37 am)I think Lyle’s description was of the Volt’s currently in assembly, but not necessarily the FIRST Volts in assembly. I say that only because of the video with Andrew Farrah “sitting in the true Volt about to go for a shakedown drive”.
This leads me to believe that some Volts have already been assembled and are being tested as we speak.
+6
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:39 am)Great post, Lyle. Thank you.
Even so, first the post says
… the first genuine Chevy Volts, called integration vehicles (IVers) were being assembled.
Then later the post says
And so without any doubt the Volt has truly been born…
Here you are overcome with emotion to the point of having lost your judment
These vehicles still are prototypes not production cars. All sorts of little changes are going to be made in body dimensions (as you point out) and there likely will be some big changes as people get to see the dashboard and instrumention working within the car in the fashion that customer’s will see it.
Getting these integration vehicles assembled is a huge step forward, and they are the most Volt-like of anything built so far. But it is not the case that these are “genuine Volts” in the sense of being the final versions. They are not yet the car that will be sent to dealerships and sold, and there may be some big steps yet to come to get to that point, for now is the time when GM people first see that some good ideas actually do not come together in the final product (so they will change and fix them).
You are still looking at a doll baby; your child is not yet born
+5
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:39 am)Nice garage door.
I love the cloth seat option.
My car could cost $500,000 and I would still want cloth seats.
The video was a complete teaser, lol.
Very well written article, Lyle.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:44 am)A real person getting into a real Volt.
Very nice to see.
Heated leather seats were not something I had associated with electric cars. Sounds luxurious.
Are they there because that is a better way to heat the occupants than using electricity to blow hot air?
Great report Lyle. Thanks
When do you ever have time for doctoring?
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:45 am)Excellent catch for this thread Lyle! Is there a test drive of an IV’er in the near future???
+3
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:47 am)Yeah… I re-read Lyle’s post and I missed this part:
“As of now the first fully built Chevy Volt IVers have rolled off this small assembly line and are being lab tested prior to their actual first drives”
So, I guess they are essentially “done,” they just haven’t been driven yet.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:47 am)Any of the Volts have sunroofs? or the ability to have it as an option??
+3
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:51 am)At the bottom of this post is the actual garage door the first Volts will drive off into the world through.
—————————————————–
Makes one smile to ready this.
Sort of like the 2nd coming of Elvis.
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:04 am)The post concludes
and its arrival into public production for launch in November 2010 appears at this point an absolute certainty.
———————————————————-
Wouldn’t it be the case that production for the public would require a production line? And if so, is anything happening to build that production line? It does not seem certain to me, as a person who is not an expert in such things, that there is “absolute certainty” that a real production line will be in place by November 2010. On the other side, is November 2010 a date for sale of a few cars from this facility? [I remember that a recent GM leadership statement said the Volt would be "introduced" by the "end of 2010."]
What’s shown seems to be a sophisticated assembly line for semi-automated semi-manual construction of cars for testing purposes. That’s a great step, but it is not a production line that can produce 10,000 Volts in the first year.
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:11 am)Lyle says
I actually saw the 53 kw motor-generator sitting on a wood table. Within it I was told are two motors. One was to turn the driveshaft and to recapture kinetic energy during deceleration, and the other acts a a generator while the engine was running.
——————————————————-
Thanks for this fascinating item. Does the last “while the engine was running” refer to the ICE engine rather than the engine mentioned in the first part of the sentence? These are then two devices located along a common axis?
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:14 am)But note the sentence
The most advanced or “lead” vehilce was fitted with many components
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:30 am)It appears that a single device couldn’t optimally provide both the motor and generator functions, so they colocated two separate devices which are each optimized for the motor and generator functions respectively.
+5
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:32 am)Have you thought that maybe its not a PR stunt so much as a glimpse of reality. People like you would complain if they didn’t get any information.
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:34 am)GREAT Post Lyle…Thanks.
Rashiid, I’m with you on the cloth seats.
Also, all the worries regarding the charge port have now gone away!
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:38 am)Heated seats are a neccessity. Normal ICE cars use circulated engine coolant, which for the 1st 40 miles will no be heated. Radiant heat is the most comfortable, and that is what heated seats are. My bet is that all 4 seats are electrically heated, with occupant sensors to save energy, and idividual stats
+4
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:44 am)Great job Lyle!
For each of us who felt in love with this car since the first day, I think we should today say to you Lyle: Thank you and may God bless you in every way possible.
+22
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:54 am)What’s with this #1 stuff ?
If you’re first to comment, please say something intelligent, like:
Thanks Lyle, great post, you’re doing a fantastic job and I hope GM rewards you with the first Volt off the assembly line !
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:55 am)______________________________________________________
Wow….excellent Volt update post Lyle!
Thanks!!!
_____________________________________________________
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:57 am)Heated seats are much more effective with leather surface.
Early info. also noted that it has incondesent effect, allowing ventilation to be set on cooler side.
Nice report Lyle.
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:01 am)This part was confusing. Is there 2 separate generator devices as part of the electric drive motor assembly–plus a ICE driven generator?
+5
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:02 am)Very nice. Glad you got access to see the facility, and where the integration vehicle were being made. A lot of good information there for us to look over.
I will say your conclusion of, “And so without any doubt the Volt has truly been born and its arrival into public production for launch in November 2010 appears at this point an absolute certainty,” is a little hopeful, but hey…your allowed to be optimistic.
The problem with your statement is where are a long way away from producing cars. It is interesting that you posted a shot when they were rolling Camaros, because this is likely from mid 2007. I am familiar with the process, specifically the Camaro itself…and I think it is a pretty good benchmark for producing the Volt, because the Camaro was also on a ‘new/modified’ line, specifically the Global RWD Zeta platform (similar to the Holden line). With the Volt we have a modified Delta II line.
I actually ‘may’ have seen the next major step in the process for the Camaro, which is building the pilot pre-production assembly line, (complete with machining)…and it is a big, time consuming step with zillions of working parts to not only fabiricate, but get into place, and that is a major step ahead of where we are with the Volt atm.
When I may (or may not) have seen it, it was late march of 2008, (fairly early still in the process)…and as you know, they just started releasing Camaros about a year later.
The Volt will certainly be a trickier project to get to production status than the Camaro, so by my estimate they have at most 3-4 months to have 90% of all the spec equipment made and bolted down to the floor in Hamtramck to hit their goals…that is a long way from hand building cars.
I guess my nutshell is, they have very little time (if any) to spare here and I hope they are planning ahead of the curve to try and recoup some time.
Anywhoo, nice job as always Lyle…I wonder if there is anyone you could ask when that picture above on the Camaro was taken and when they started the hand assembled pilot Camaros? We could use that information to compare timelines.
+12
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:05 am)snif… snif… I… I… love this website. snif…
+6
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:11 am)Not to pick on Jason (he’s had a lot of company), but if you post just to say “number 1″ doesn’t it mean that you’re really “number 2″ ?
+8
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:18 am)“they have at most 3-4 months to have 90% of all the spec equipment made and bolted down to the floor in Hamtramck to hit their goals”
Statik. I work in manufacturing, and we have specific lines for product, and while not automotive, we follow a similar plan. What we term a Pilot run, where we do the same as IVers.
While this is happening, the product line is built simultaneously, most of the generic stuff can be installed and “boltted to the floor” it is the product specific components that they will have 3-4 months to get. They know how to build the mounts and platforms to hold the Delta II body, the rest is fairly standard too, the basic proces is known (motor b4 hood, seats b4 doors, tires at tie end, etc..) and much of that is standard equipment too. so the basic layout can be happening right now. it will be the Volt specific manufacturing pieces they will need to add.
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:18 am)I’ll admit that I’ve had visions of the Volt program dying with the first Volts half-completed on an assembly line, but only at my lowest moments here (like the official announcement of bankruptcy).
However, I prefer to see this item for what it clearly is; a very very good report (thanks Lyle for all you’ve done).
When we talk about government bailouts (and more), it helps to see domestic auto manufacturing as an instrument of policy (especially when we see a game-changing electric car come down the line). The Obama administration will very likely not allow the Volt project to end now that it’s reached this advanced point (and this from someone who finds praise for The Chosen One hard to offer).
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:18 am)Right, I’d say that’s the lead vehicle in the line of vehicles currently in assembly.
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:20 am)Agree completely about the cloth seats Rashiid. I’ve also seen some vehicles that have heated cloth seats, though that seems less common.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:23 am)I’m hoping my thrilled screaming didn’t wake everyone up. Lyle, thank you, it’s still only about 6 AM here though!
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:25 am)Apparently everything that’s needed to move the car (less battery, gas tank, and electronics) is integrated into one neat package. There’s not a generator over here, a motor over there and an internal combustion engine somewhere else, requiring complex final assembly to pull off.
Consider how easy this will make new EREV models, moving forward!
+3
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:27 am)GM can, and has, convert an assembly line from making Suburbans to Malibus in six weeks. I don’t think that it is a major stretch for them to bring up an assembly line for the Volt by the fall of 2010. In order to do that, however, they have to go through this step of figuring out what the assembly line should be. I think that Lyle was quite clear that this is a test line.
I agree with Lyle that it is very likely that the Volt will be produced on the final assembly plant at the end of 2010. Can something go wrong that delays that? Sure it can but this particular process is something that GM has done hundreds of times before.
I grew up in the Detroit area and almost every family I knew worked for one of the car companies. Changeover time was during the summer was very intense but, somehow, they always managed to get the line running on time. It’s like putting on a play. The curtain goes up at 8:00 and you had better be ready.
+7
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:40 am)You are humor impaired
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:41 am)Yesterday I was thinking about your remaining time clock before first integration vehicles and surprise, today this article. I become to be really teased (addicted?) by now.
+6
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:42 am)LOL – I think (hope) that BillR was being sarcastic, poking all those naysayers in the audience who have tried to shoot this project down.
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:46 am)Perhaps because once vaporware gets pushed out the door, in initially low numbers, then the legions of naysayers will have to find a word to replace vaporware.
How about we offer a suggestion, if Volts are some day sold, words like cars or product or inventory or vehicles sold would be descriptive.
Or if folks are still in the highly critical camp they might use, defective product, too little inventory to make a difference or the always popular, modern Edsels to replace vaporware. GM has done a great service by keeping the Volt program in public view. Imagine the strategic lead they would hold if all this had been secret until June of next year.
Guys if you are giving thumbs down votes to BillR, did you notice he signed off with “Great report, Lyle. Looking forward to your updates.” Come on grow a humor node in those big brains of yours
+4
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:50 am)Apparently the description is a little off, There are two devices in one housing with no mechanical connection between both of the them.. the first one is the main motor, 112kw, it also recovers brake energy.. the second device is the generator (53kw), the one attached to the crankshaft of the engine, it also acts like a starter motor.
It makes sense that they combine it in one housing, shorter power cables running around. Easier to circulate the coolant also.
Lyle you gotta convince them to let you take pictures next time!
+5
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:50 am)He’s being sarcastic Lee.
Basically poking fun at all the trolls that used to visit.
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:52 am)When I first started on this blog, I was giddy for the Volt. The financial collapse darkened my mood quite a bit. This post makes me giddy again.
Go Volt!
+3
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:53 am)Lyle, Very interesting post. Any chance of getting a picture of the new “charge port,” door open and closed?
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:54 am)It is obvious the Volt is a first generation product. Almost no component in this vehicle has been optimized. I would wait for the much improved second generation model, Others can be used to shake out all the durability bugs that come with 1st gen cars. At least Chevy is making progress, albeit rather slowly.
+4
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:54 am)Great report Lyle, well done!!
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:55 am)One notable change was the location of the charge port. Now it will have its own door like a fuel tank and site below the front nameplate.
————————
A big improvement, methinks.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:55 am)Outstanding – I’ll take mine in Black with Black interior.
I look forward to seeing the options for interiors etc…
Any idea of distribution plans? I live in Seattle and am not very optimistic about availability until 2012. Too late as I will need a new car before that
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:56 am)______________________________________________________
Lyle Said:
“…The top surface of the center console was somewhat different too with some design tweaks and a storage area with trap door…”
———-
Good. It needed it.
______________________________________________________
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:58 am)The way i understand this above statement about these two motors:
Am I right on about the configuration?
The main AC propulsion electric motor also acts as regen (four quadrant function) when required but the genset itself (ICE-generator mechanically coupled together) has a single function, recharge the batteries even when the main motor acts like a… motor
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:59 am)Now I’m totally confused. The 53Kw motor is connected to the ICE, not the driveshaft, which has the 110kW motor. Damn it Lyle, can’t you answer questions about the 53kW motor, instead of bring up more!
Maybe they meant it has a separate motor to start the ICE, seems weird though.
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:02 am)I have heated cloth seats in my 07 MAXX… great for those chilly Canadian winters !
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:10 am)All smiles over here!
Thank You Lyle Dennis ACE reporter!
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:13 am)AC motor and petrol engine in the same housing is a good idea, the AC motor will keep the engine block warm, so if it starts up on high revs it won’t suffer as much wear.
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:13 am)Lyle says: As of now the first fully built Chevy Volt IVers have rolled off this small assembly line and are being lab tested prior to their actual first drives.
That will make Tag happy, Volts by independance day. lol.
And also :All of the learning here, the fixing of slight errors, and refinement of the assembly plan will lead early next year to the first assembled cars called validation builds on the Detroit-Hamtramck line where the production Volts will finally be built for sale. That plant has the capacity if needed to make up to 200,000 cars per year.
For a break even version one, not a chance. It will just be the single line at up to 60,000 per year.
Version two onwards will be full power (pun intended) ahead.
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:17 am)“Volt Chief engineer Andrew Farah noted it was about the size of a conventional transmission, something this car wouldn’t need.”
Lyle (or anyone else) has there been a determination regarding whether or not there will BE a transmission? See link below for forum discussion of this topic.
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2911
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:18 am)Kudos, Lyle, on this look into the Volt IV Assembly plant!
We all know the Volt will most likely be the world’s first mass-produced E-REV vehicle. Slightly off topic, but I noticed an interesting Reuters article* on the status of the 3-year “EcoCAR” competition among 17 North American Universities, in which 8 of the 17 schools are taking the E-REV design approach. I see this as an important endorsement of E-REV/Voltec by several leading engineering schools, one that can help the average person appreciate its many inherent advantages over EV, HEV, PHEV, etc, etc! For anyone interested the link below is worthwhile reading….
*http://www.reuters.com/article/gwmEnergy/idUS44568323220090619
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:18 am)Thank you sir for a great piece of news. Go Volt!
“Flaming enthusiasm, backed up by horse sense and persistence, is the quality that most frequently makes for success.”
Dale Carnegie
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:22 am)Had to give your Elvis reference a bump — made me smile.
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:23 am)With only a partial view of the center console, [ hope may be blurring my vision ] Is that awful looking, like an after thought , where can we put this display now actually built in so it looks like it was ment to be there?
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:23 am)I’ve got to agree with you RB. I can’t see these as the real deal because I know they’re getting crushed when testing is over (What a crime!). You’d figure they could unload test vehicles off to either a third world country or possibly sell them on EBAY with the knowledge that they aren’t production vehicles and no warranty/spare parts are guaranteed. I just can’t see scrapping a car because it was hand built. GM, I would totally take one of these off your hands fo $10,000. I’d even fly out to Detroit to pick it up. As a taxpayer/owner of GM I think I’ll propose that at the next board meeting.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:27 am)The lack of work on the actual assembly line has been Statik’s concern for some time but maharguitar’s comment about the time needed to convert an assembly line is one point, though the times needed for converting a line and starting one may be different.
Personally I’ve never thought getting the assembly line ready was that big of a deal. GM does that all the time so I figured GM had that task dialed in, and that this particular part of production would not create any problems. Then again I know jack about assembling cars.
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:28 am)@30 Flaninacupboard;
I’m betting that the genset is a combination of a fairly standard engine block bolted transmission style to the motor/generator and the end result will look an awful lot like an existing front drive engine – transmission package.
This makes a LOT of sence since the tools used in manufacturing already exist to handle that sort of packaging so they don’t have to invent something new.
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:33 am)They aren’t using energy efficient warehouse lights. There are new fluorescent high-bay lights specifically for warehouses that use far less energy than the metal-halides they are using…and they last longer and have greater output too. ROI is within 1-2 years.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:34 am)@7 BillR;
I should never click the votey thingy before I drink my coffee! Irony was too much for me first thing today!
Now that I’m awake… that’s really funny Bill!
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:35 am)I too have cloth seats that are heated in my ’08 Malibu although I rarely used them during the last Chicago winter.
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:46 am)I think you nailed it there Herm.
From the outside and even from underneath the driveline will look like almost any other front drive car.
The difference is in the ‘guts’ of it!
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:48 am)Some people say this is a PR Stunt! Well GM must be a master in PR Stunts!
+3
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:54 am)Oh COME ON, Statik! Even now you, er, well, you do what you do. Throw cold water on anything that might HINT at a warm feeling. And yes, I know you don’t believe in feelings nearly as much as cold data, but they DO count.
I thought that it was extremely poignant that the the door from which this Volt will first “Get it’s wheels on the road” has it’s own picture, because if I was Lyle THAT would be the point at which I could think “I did it”. And what a great moment that will be.
JMO,
Be ok,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!***************NPNS
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:01 am)I had heated cloth seats in my 2000 Subaru Outback.
They might be more popular than we think.
+3
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:01 am)I don’t know. My butt certainly got hot with the heated cloth seats.
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:03 am)I didn’t expect this. It’s a very good way to cut down on weight. This component will also be liquid cooled so it also requires less cooling lines and parts than would be needed to do two separate components.
Lyle, Pure gold report. Really stokes the hype! Can you give more information on the generator. Even if it’s just a guess. How long, shape, weight, fittings (electrical, cooling), etc. Did it have a nameplate? Oh, I want one of these to play with.
The center console looks great!
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:11 am)For some reason I can’t get the “reply” function working, so this is @ RB # 15 et al.
Herm is exactly correct, as is an_outsider.
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:14 am)Good to hear the charge port has been upgraded. Other items been tweaked as well? hummm .. ?
=D~
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:15 am)LOL, yes, that made me smile so big that it hurt.
Be well,
Tagamet
Independence Day 2010!!********LJGTVWOTR!!*******NPNS
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:15 am)My understanding is that the whole top of the car is a tinted glass panel (kind of like the Scion TC).
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:17 am)@ MarkinWI # 32
There will be no transmission, in the sense of shifting gears. There will likely be a single reduction gearbox, and/or differential.
+4
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:17 am)OMG! Me too except I’ll have mine in orange with black stripes!
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:18 am)The 53kW motor is a motor generator. It’s purpose is to convert the ICE’s mechanical energy to electricity to charge the battery. It must be separate from the 110kW motor because there are times when the ICE will be charging the battery and you are still driving the car.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:18 am)No doubt the GM people see things in each group of IVers that are not right or not quite right and make improvements, small and big, in subsequent IVers. After all, it is the first time they have had the opportunity to have the whole car together, so the first looks are going to show some things done well and also some imperfections. They also may show assembly steps that are easily done and others where the 3D dimensions make it hard to complete the assembly in a fast but reliable way.
Making these prototypes is one of the steps in sequential improvement that is much to be desired. At the same time, these prototypes are not yet complete and polished cars, ready to be sold, so I think it is natural that GM keeps rather than sells them.
-1
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:19 am)+1 on cloth!
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:19 am)Wow, a -3 score? I thought that it was a LOT funnier than that! lol.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:23 am)Maybe the state of your hot butt is too much information? Only kidding. But a cloth interior? Hmmmm……….. Bet you don’t have a dog!
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:23 am)“And so without any doubt the Volt has truly been born and its arrival into public production for launch in November 2010 appears at this point an absolute certainty.”
Don’t jinx it!
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:24 am)The 53kw generator/starter motor will be bolted to the crankshaft of the ICE much like any transmission but without a clutch or torque converter.
Within that same housing but not mechanically connected to the generator will be the 110kw drive motor which will be connected to the wheels through CV half (drive) shafts. The drive motor will capture the regen energy as well.
That’s how I see it.
I’m willing to bet that once alternative genset options become available in the future (Mr Fusion, fuel cell, who knows…) that the motor/generator housing will be split into separate units.
For now this is definately a good packaging solution.
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:26 am)I hadn’t thought of that, good point. My only concern would be excess heat for the motor/generators with the ICE running (but then again, the coolant system for the engine would also be available for the motors if they’re mounted in the same housing).
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:27 am)I too am not a fan of the center console. What’s with all of the blue buttons? It looks like a Sony clock-radio. The screen seems painfully small for such a high-tech car. I wish it had a display like the Tesla Model S.
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:28 am)Nice work Lyle!
And today is also a big day for another reason: The movie debut of the Chevy Volt in the new Transformers sequel! Soon, nobody will be able to say they’ve never seen the Volt before…
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:30 am)Once GM gets back to profitability (and gets the government metaphorically out of it’s hair), I’m sure such eco-friendly plant improvements will be high on the list for consideration. Under current circumstances, this seems like a relatively meaningless detail.
-9
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:40 am)@jason M. Hendler 1
You da man!!!!
You’re #1!!!!!
Man, you guys are a bunch of tight a$$es today……
You Go “jason M. Hendler”!!!!
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:41 am)I think this is what Herm is saying. The 53 kW motor is the generator which is mechanically connected to the crankshaft of the engine and electrically connected to the 112 kW motor. The 112 kW motor turns the driveshaft. When the engine is running the 53 kW generator can provide power to the 112 kW motor and it can also act as the starter motor for the engine.
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:43 am)Hemoroids?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:43 am)To me this is bad news. I understand why they did it. Having the main drive motor attached the the Genset makes this look like a regular engine with transmission. Based on Lyle’s description, They have the Genset (Engine & generator) and then tied to the same package the Drive motor with a single speed gearbox with the drive shafts ready to install. This makes the assemble just like a normal car.
However, This does not take advantage of the EREV configuration for Maintainability(Is it even part of modern car design). I was hoping if I have engine trouble. I could bring my Volt to the shop and they could pull the Genset and replace it in an hour. To remove the engine would only require removal of three engine mounts, cooling lines, and cables. It would even be possible to drive away without the engine while it is being repaired.
Updating the car to a different technology range extender with also be harder.
Keeping this components seperate would have allowed better maintainability and flexibility.
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:46 am)R those sunroofs I see?!?!?!?!?!?
NNOOOOOOOooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!
Man those a designe/enginered leaks on a car. Maybe it’s just me but avery car that I have ever owned leaked at the sunroof. My Ford leaked, My Honda Leaked and my Saturn leaks like a MOFO!
I had friends an family with cars with leaky sunroof but they were lucky enough to leak while the warranty was still valid. Maybe I shouldn’t keep my cars for 12yrs and just buy new ones……..nah.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:48 am)This is a great article Lyle. Interesting information and something of an exclusive. Nice job. We all appreciate it!
Taking a cue from Paul Krugman, who won a Nobel Prize in economics for his work on where companies geographically locate, maybe you can set up a practice in Michigan. LOL
Again, nice work that lifts the spirits for those of us wishing GM and the Volt the best. Thanks.
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:51 am)If it ceases to be “vaporware”, it becomes “product”. That’s how we do it in the computer industry! And, boy, does the computer industry know how to hype…!
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:53 am)Thank you. It was confusing to me, and the comments help.
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:55 am)Tag, when the wine bottle is neither half empty nor half full, but completely full and recently uncorked, Statik will argue that it’s completely empty — or at least half empty — because the vintage is poor. LOL
While he may have a point, we know it’s NPNS!
+3
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:56 am)-1 on the cloth. I havve kids and Craola Crayons suck when they melt into them. Leather you just either wipe off or crust off when it’s cold.
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:58 am)Huh?
How is the drive motor that’s in the back rear axles going to be in the same housing as the ICE Genset?
Or is the “Car” the “Housing”?
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:00 am)With four or five cars never had a leak in a sunroof. So I’m just asking: What exactly are you DOING in that car, Captain?
(On second thought maybe that’s too much information ….).
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:01 am)the genset itself (ICE-generator mechanically coupled together) has a single function
____________________
Also replaces the starter motor used in an ICE only drivetrain.
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:04 am)From what I’ve been reading, I think July 4th is going to be a big day for us Volt fans. I’m hoping that GM lets us see some good video of the “production intent Volt” in action on a track or something. Who knows, maybe they’ll have a cameraman with video and audio in the back seat so we can see and hear the whole Volt driving experience … in electric only mode AND in IC engine generator mode.
Just 10 days to go. I’m definitely looking forward to it.
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:04 am)What did you expect?.. to put a window on the roof is to ask for trouble.
I never found sunroofs or moonroofs to be enjoyable.. nothing at all like a convertible. BTW, those cars on the picture are camaros, and not electric camaros either.
Now a large one piece sunroof that just pops off may be fun, basically the whole roof of the car, and made of sheet metal, not glass. The T panels they used to put on Camaros were also a leaking POA.
+7
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:07 am)Congratulations to all who have helped bring this visionary project to fruition! Whoever the new Administration’s execs are – they have lucked out to be in a position to reap the praise from this world transforming project. Of course the real credit goes to the original designers and to Bob Lutz and Rick Waggoner for having the guts to make it happen.
Kudos and praise to the entire Volt Team, and to the good people of GM Worldwide who have all contributed to this important step in automotive history. You all are a part of bringing the first mass marketed electric vehicle to the world. You have kick-started the electrification of transportation on Earth. And that has made the world a better place.
Thank you.
2VOO – Two Volts On Order
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:08 am)BillR,
I’m voting thumbs up as many times as I can to overwhelm the sourpusses out there. My first good laugh of the morning!
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:12 am)You dont think putting the motor and the generator in the same housing is optimizing? ..I think it is.. the next step is to also build-in the inverters/controllers into that housing. I believe the new Ford Escape did that.
Lyle also mentioned electro-hydraulic brakes, would like more detail on that also, also on the electric air conditioning system.
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:13 am)Looks like a great solution to me, per herm and texas assessments. Also only one housing to cast that will hold and align both units.
Regarding maintenance, Most people will have most miles w/o using the ICE and with plugging in the vast majority of cold starts can be engineered out of the ICE’s routine.
Should result in much less ICE use, wear and maintenance. Maybe the batteries become the critical highly used element instead of the hundreds of ICE related moving parts.
Texas said “Lyle, Pure gold report.” – I agree, invaluable info!
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:14 am)I agree on all counts. I believe E-REV is going to be the electric car of choice for a long time. Most likely BEV will one day take the lead but not till 200 mile , [at a min.]while doing normal driving on freeway or in town with heat or Air conditioning on ,fast charging, low cost batterys are common.
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:17 am)I look forward to Andrew Farah’s comments about the “shakedown drive” over the next few days. Maybe they can run one into a Prius and see what happens? Demolition derby testing.
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:22 am)The motor/generator should never need replacement, for at least 1 million miles I would think.. the ICE will only run occasionally, so it should also be good for a long time.
I was also hoping for separate parts, so GM could build up a standard parts bin usable in many different cars.. but this being GM they optimize everything to build many thousands of cars in a production line.
As an example I was hoping they would use two of the Volt motors on the rear of a Camaro, each driving one of the wheels, use two of the standard Volt motor inverter/controllers and use the Volt genset in place of the Camaro ICE.. The battery pack they can just cram in where there is room. So far all they can use the Volt parts kit is for FWD cars.
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:27 am)Pffft. Vaporware…..
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:28 am)So remind me again… who killed the electric car? The name is slipping my mind right now…
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:31 am)Lyle,
The new format seems to be allowing a faster and broader proliferation of comments, kudos!
Also, is it possible to do the separate color for brand new comments suggestion, and or put a longer version of the newest comments that is now @ the home page here, I’m starting to get range of discussion/missed comment anxiety.
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:32 am)Glad to see the IV’s are going well. I toured the Hamtramack plant a few years ago when they were building Buick LeSabres. As far as I know, the plant is currently building large cars from the H-body platform. I’d consider the Volt more of a mid-size car than a large car. However, maybe there are some advantages to being on the larger car lines (e.g. heavier duty welders for battery pack installation).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit/Hamtramck_Assembly
Looks like Tesla has shipped ~500 vehicles as of the end of May. If there will be ~80 to 100 IV’s, they’ll already have made ~20% of Tesla’s vehicles just in testing. Considering Tesla is literally tightening bolts to keep them from falling apart and killing people on the roads, while GM crushes the IV’s to keep their customers safe and moves on to ramp up for real mass production (not craft production, which was the whole point of the modern industrial revolution), I think the contrast is amazing. But what do I know…I didn’t found and sell a critically important business to the auto industry like Paypal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Roadster
====START RANT====
I’ll take a product that is…
built in Michigan with a reasonable cost of living that is plagued by unemployment and is centrally located in the U.S. for supply & distribution…
at a brownfield site…
by competent engineers and technicians…
who respect design for manufacturing…
who also respect & take responsibility for design for supply chain (through internal battery pack design & assembly)
…and have patience to maintain a rational schedule and not over-promise………
over one that is…
made in sunny California with the highest U.S. cost of living…
being pushed to be built at a greenfield site (San Jose) while thousands of buildings are available in a recession…
by a company that does NOT respect design for manufacturing…
that also has not taken responsibility for design of their supply chain (OEM shell from Lotus = recalls out of their control + OEM battery packs)…
that is driven by a CEO that over-promises and under-delivers…
that caters to the wealthiest among us for status and glamor instead of attempting to enable the common good and middle class…
that innovates from above because it is easier than innovating disruptively using the E-REV disruptive technology architecture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Innovator%27s_dilemma
In other words, I’ll take SUBSTANCE over STYLE.
====END RANT====
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:33 am)My feelings exactly DonC.
Apparently the guts of the Volt will look similar to an ICE FWD car, so the production line will be very familiar to GM. The one different thing will be the final conection to the battery, watch out for the sparks!.
When you get your Volt and proudly open to the hood to show off.. you wont see anything different!
The Mitsubishi iMiev will be even simpler to assemble.. a lot less parts.
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:35 am)Jason you’ve got mad skills! You have one of the highest rated and one of the lowest rated posts. Historic absolutely historic!
+3
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:36 am)Herm you are correct, I mis-wrote it (happens sometimes)
It is corrected.
Thanks
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:39 am)Hay!…
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:40 am)Ummm…..
Mitsubishi was first in the “:World” with the Jellybean car. They are in mass production and the Volt is……
What’s it called when you build 80-100 only?
Mitsu doubles output…
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/03/mitsubishi-reportedly-doubling-imiev-output-to-20-000-a-year/
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:40 am)Statik;
I agree with your reasonable and valid points on the production timeline concerns. I guess I am a bit less skeptical though that GM will miss the November 2010 deadline due to the priority status of the whole project. Not to negate the importance of the Camaro example you used in any way, but in reality, if any other car misses a deadline, most people just shrug their shoulders. The Volt is different. On a scale from 1 to 10 in priority, GM has this project at about 35. The gov’t. has a bonfire lit underneath the behinds of these guys to get this car done and out asap because this is symbolic of a philosophy more than anything. I would imagine that anything Volt related gets pushed to the top of the pile in the walls of the Company. With the gov’t. financially bankrolling GM, and Obama personally saying, “make this car!”, there is likely a level of hurriedness for this project that no other car design has probably ever seen, at least not in GM. This is all speculation on my behalf with zero facts to back it up, although through everything I have observed so far, the Volt seems like the hottest thing going at GM.
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:45 am)wait until they crush these prototypes, then the screams will start… maybe someone can slip the crusher operator $100 bucks and slip away with a piece of modern automotive history
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:46 am)AHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
I gave you a +1 for that one……lol
My cars are always outside in the CA sun. Most likely the rubber or whatever they are made of seals breakdown in time. Nevertheless, they leaked. Trailer aint go no garage u know.
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:49 am)From the article:
One notable change was the location of the charge port. Now it will have its own door like a fuel tank and site below the front nameplate.
–
I am having trouble picturing this in my head.
Is the charge port in the nose of the car now, or up front on the side of the car. In the nose is such a terrible idea as bugs, dirt, salt, ice, all collect there. Not to mention that even a small front end collision could render the charge port useless. Do I have this wrong?
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:50 am)The problem with Michigan is that there are lots of UAW people in busing distance.. and they feel entitled and owed by the man. Bring the new plants down south.
+4
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:53 am)Just to erase any doubt, I was trying to be sarcastic!
IMO, no company would to to this degree of manufacture or expense for a concept car.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:54 am)I’ve alwyas considered the Volt a Transformer.
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:55 am)I’m sure this comment will get lost in the shuffle, but what is the plan for GM to put these integration vehicles in the hands of people to test them? Has this been published somewhere? How would one go about “applying” for the program.
-2
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:55 am)The heated seat in my ’98 buick Park Ave quick working back in ’01 and the lumbar support in my ’02 Chevy Silverado crumbled in ’03.
I hope GM’s quality has improved… dramatically.
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:57 am)The Volt is front wheel drive.
The cool part is that they could add a second drive motor in the back and make an electric AWD Audi/Subaru competitor! (Sounds good to me, we get winter!)
Jun 24th, 2009 (11:58 am)me too
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:06 pm)The early pictures showed a belt driven generator off the ICE, almost like a conventional set-up, with big lead wires connected to electric drive motor. Raise the hood-ICE to left and elec. motor to right.
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:11 pm)It seems to me that GM could make a few bucks selling these as “off road never to be registered” prototypes!
The hemi ‘cuda rolls off the auction block and now here comes a prototype Chevy Volt… the bidding starts at $50k…
+5
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:15 pm)Sorry if this has already been mentioned, as I am at work and do not have a lot of time to read all the posts, but:
It appears to me that Lyle has the attention of GM in a big way! And by reference, that means that all of us here at GM-Volt.com also have some of that attention as well. This is a good thing!
Letting non-GM people into an area that produces IV’s is not something that normally happens. And the fact that Lyle was there shows me that GM is serious about getting this car out the door as soon as they can.
Now, if we can just convince those in the GM board room that Lyle’s list should be included in the sales of some of those first 10,000 vehicles……………
Hint hint!!!!
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:15 pm)My ’98 Malibu has a torn seat and a cracked windshield.
Otherwise it’s fine.
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:18 pm)I would have said Pontiac Grand Am with Range Extender in Blue but well Grand Am got sidelined in 05 and now Pontiac is on its way out.
So I will go with the next best thing. Chevy Malibu in Blue with Range Extender Please. Thanks 
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:20 pm)I want to see him ‘drift’ it!
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:25 pm)Agreed. Lots easier to clean my Golden Retrievers hair off leather seats than cloth ones, too !
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:26 pm)Kudo’s to them for being first out of the gate.
But honestly it looks like a pregnant smart car…
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:28 pm)I don’t want to start a battle, but maybe you missed the point of the
“common good and middle class” part.
We need to rebuild the middle class that is being ravaged to the point of extinction in the U.S. Elites that only cater exclusively to elites will not rebuild it. Nor will driving wedges between the same people who are under assault. I don’t care if it’s in Michigan or the south, we’re all under the same larger pressures whether you like it or not.
If you take your comment to their logical extent, the Volts’ shouldn’t be made in the U.S. at all. They should all be made in the lowest labor cost country, which was China. It may be somewhere else with even lower wages now.
Quote below from the following article:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_50/b3912051_mz011.htm
=================
“Banister concluded China has about 38 million city manufacturing workers. The 30 million on whom she found data earn an average $1.06 an hour. Another roughly 71 million suburban and rural manufacturing workers earn an average 45 cents an hour, for a blended 64 cents. In the current BLS survey, Mexico’s $2.48 hourly compensation is the lowest.
Because China’s living costs are low, that 64 cents buys as much as $2.96 in the U.S. Banister estimates inflation-adjusted pay in cities doubled from 1990 to 2002. (She thinks it rose outside cities, too, but won’t guess how much.) She figures that between 1995 and 2002, factory jobs fell by at least 11 million in cities as state-owned enterprises shed workers, and rose some 5 million outside cities.”
===============
So the real question is, are you going to take a pay cut to enhance your personal “competitiveness” by cutting your wages to compete globally at $1/hour, moving to China, or support businesses manufacturing in the U.S. that support living wages and a corresponding middle class?
In the short run you can try something different than the above (e.g. lean manufacturing using immigrant labor with U.S. management overhead), but in the long run those are the only options you’ve got and the market will force your hand. Therefore, please make sure to respond using one of the three answers above. No fudging please.
In the spirit of full disclosure, I partially regret the statement about cost of living in California. I shouldn’t have conflated this with the larger forces at work and resulting reasoning in my rant. I guess that’s why it’s called a rant and not a well-thought out opinion
.
Thanks!
Best regards,
Eric
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:29 pm)LIkely a solid state electronic cooling like here, but in a larger app.
http://www.eicsolutionsinc.com/peltier_cooling_devices.htm
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:29 pm)Amen, DonC. I need to work on my tolerance quotient (but sometimes that’s tough – this being one of them).
Be well,
Tagamet
NPNS!!
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:30 pm)My nervousness has always been with reliability of electric drive motor and electronic driver and related components. I have some experience in Industry with Variable Speed-Variable demand induction motors of this size. Failure, especially beyond 3-4 years, is not uncommon.
Does anyone know, is GM actually manufacturing their own compnents or are they outsourcing to a Siemens, ABB, GE, etc.?
-10
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:30 pm)(click to show comment)
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:31 pm)I’ve never had a sunroof leak. Had them freeze shut a few times though…
I know, I know, damn Canadians..
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:33 pm)Very well put!
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:34 pm)The IVers are used within GM, by GM people, not by outsiders, at least as I understand the situation. They are prototypes used for testing the body and powertrain together, not necessarily finished vehicles. It is wonderful to get to the IV step, but it is still a part of development.
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:35 pm)Another “Well put”.
Be well
Tagamet
NPNS
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:36 pm)my 82 camero, 87 balzer, 96 lumina APV are all running on original parts other than normal wear and tear. over 225,000 on all 3 (the blazer pushing 350,000) never changed the plugs etc…still pass emissions testing here in Ontario.
Personally I have never EVAR had trouble with any Chev I have owned.
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:37 pm)It’s doubtful that Lyle’s list can be used for vehicle sales and GM still conform to state franchise laws. That said, I have a low number, so if Lyle’s list can be used, I’ll be happy.
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:37 pm)My 97 Saturn has torn upholstry, cracked windshield, leaking sunroof, power door switch intermittntly rattles (switch flap), power sunroof stopped working (probably from water), AC stopped working (leak in the fill valve), other than that, it passed smog and it gets me to&fro work. Now If it did not have powe door locks, power sunroo or no sunroof at all at the begining then I wouldn’t have some of these problems.
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:38 pm)Ummm…
.Media folks are non GM aren’t they?
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:39 pm)DITTO
Tagamet
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:41 pm)The EV1 sucked. Get over it.
GM didn’t want to be required to build/maintain spare parts for 10 years for a bunch of hand built cars that few people would have bought for $80k, or leased for $600+ / mo. (their actual value, not the $45k they based the lease rate on).
This is a completely different scenario, but I suppose you’re too limited to see the difference.
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:42 pm)I think you have it right. MAYBE they’ll have an insignia on the trunk too though, so that would make more sense to me too.
Statik, are there more front end collisions or front end collisions?(g)
Be well,
Tagamet
NPNS
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:44 pm)“Talk” was that they’d be tested by GM employees. There’d be a huge line up from folks here (g).
Be well,
Tagamet
-1
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:44 pm)LOL! Jason you are polar man today!
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:46 pm)Peltier cooling is horribly power in-efficient (but rugged), compressors do a much better job and can be designed for long life. The volt uses a motor driven compressor, similar to what is in your refrigerator.
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:46 pm)HINT to INFINITY…….! I’m with you!
Be well,
Tagamet
NPNS
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:53 pm)I guess that makes Jason bi-polar….. (just kidding!)
Be well,
Tagamet
NPNS
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:53 pm)You’re not the only one who’s confused by that statement. I agree that the front of the car (under the license plate or chevy logo?) would be a stupid place to put the charge port.
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:54 pm)_____________________________________________________
#58 Jim Said:
“Now, if we can just convince those in the GM board room that Lyle’s list should be included in the sales of some of those first 10,000 vehicles……………”
——————
I second that.
Also, Lyle should get dibs on 1st production Volt off the line.
____________________________________________________
Jun 24th, 2009 (12:55 pm)Hi All:
I am roughly number 16,500 for my Chevy Volt. Hope they produce enough soon so I can get one too.
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:00 pm)Grinning…
Sure looks like it, doesn’t it?
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:01 pm)I thought that they bailed on the concept’s glass roof, but I could be 100% wrong on that.
Be well,
Tagamet
NPNS
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:03 pm)Just now getting to read the article. Good job, Lyle. We are all waiting for more information as it comes available. Keep up the good work. You are doing a very, very good job. Thanks, again.
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:05 pm)I hope I didn’t hurt his feelings, he hasn’t posted since then. Probably out enjoying the great weather (I hope).
Be well,
Tagamet
NPNS
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:08 pm)I am SO glad that they are offering a choice of white or black for the center console. I wasn’t all that enamoured with the white center stack, but the black looks awesome! I just hope they don’t make it piano black; that stuff catches finger prints like no tomorrow.
And that video may have been an evil tease, but it did have one little bit of useful information, if only for a moment. I always wondered what that handle-looking thing in the center stack was; it would appear to be the “shifter”.
-15
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:11 pm)(click to show comment)
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:12 pm)I hear what you are saying, but as someone who has swapped out an entire front drive ‘unit’ engine and trans more than once, it is actually in a lot of ways easier to take them out as a unit and dissasemble the bits on the floor.
My guess is that if your Volt did need a replacement engine the whole subframe would be dropped out of the car for the swap.
It’s less scary than it sounds! Less wires and the struts there are 6 big Jeezus bolts holding the front cradle of my Malibu on. A furnature dolly (the flat kind) and a lift make this sort of thing a fast job.
Having said all this I had envisioned them as separate units as well. This could change in GEN 2 or later. But certainly for GEN 1 the single casting is so much simpler for manufacturing and for field maintenance as well since it LOOKS like a regular car.
In just a couple years it will BE a regular car!
Much like the current generation hybrids are just regular cars now, the next generation is the Volt and it’s successors.
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:12 pm)I had to read your post a few times, and then I had to go back up to the top a few times, to understand what you were talking about. It is that in this post the title and text are about a visit to the Volt IV assembly facility, but the picture is not the Volt, it is a Camaro IV assembly facility
Sharp eyes you have, or maybe I should have seen it all along. Thanks.
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:13 pm)Fellow bloggers – fun problem coming up – little fireplug of a grandson, just learning to walk / talk. Getting to recognize sounds, like diesel engines, fire/storm sirens, various animals and all the rest. So how to mimic a Volt?
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:15 pm)I agree. It wouldn’t be the first time they’ve sold off-road models from the GM heritage collection. There’s no reason whatsoever to crush these cars.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/21/gm-holds-a-heritage-garage-sale/?scp=3&sq=gm%20heritage%20collection&st=cse
+3
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:21 pm)We have three ideas floating around:
1. Car is badly designed so no one will buy it.
2. Car is too expensive so no one will buy it.
3. No one will actually be able to buy the car because demand will be too high.
I’m thinking these are not entirely consistent ideas.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:24 pm)Great article Lyle. Lots of interesting information. It’s a very good sign that GM is offering you so much access.
I can’t wait to read your test drive of the production vehicle!
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:27 pm)My wife HAS to have leather seats. No argument against them has succeeded to date. It’s absolutely a deal killer for her if she can’t get them. I on, the other hand, don’t care. Of course, she is perfectly happy driving a 14 year old car, and not spending money on new cars. So I guess she is a keeper, and we have to humor her on these little things.
On the other hand, here in sunny SoCal, we don’t need them to be heated. That’s why we need an options list.
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:30 pm)Grat;
From a public relations standpoint the handling of EV-1 was a disaster.
Would I have bought one? Not a chance.
BUT, when you have people getting arrested because they want to buy something you are going to scrap anyway you open up a huge nasty can of worms.
If GM had sold the EV-1′s to those folks (even without any form of warranty) the public impression of GM would likely be quite different then it has been for the last ten years.
The other point you missed is that we were joking!
Although, a few hundred grand for what would otherwise be scrap wouldn’t be terrible, would it?
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:30 pm)We don’t want a sunroof. If we have to take it, no deal. Options please.
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:31 pm)I only wish I could have a visit. Get it going GM!
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:32 pm)Bob Lutz has left the building. Rick Wagoner?
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:32 pm)In SoCal (and in the Southeast), it might be good for the seats to be cooled … no, scratch that. There’s so much humidity down here that you’d get out of your car with wet pants.
I mean from the condensation!
Yes, as a matter of fact I can read your minds (and you should all be ashamed of yourselves, especially Cap’n Jack). Now you know why I can be so irritable at times.
.
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:35 pm)Suits me if they did. I don’t need a solar oven with wheels, in Georgia.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:37 pm)I’ll take a 1st gen car, potential bugs and all. Bring it on!
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:43 pm)I predict that someone is going to make a “push-pull click-click” infinitely configurable vehicle based on this technology. Those of us who are nerdy enough would go wild with such a platform, but this isn’t anywhere near a good scheme for the very first E-REV expression to hit the showroom for Ma and Pa (maybe not the second or third either).
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:44 pm)Good news. Thanks Dr. Dennis.
I’ve offered to put down a deposit I can’t back out of, pay for the !@#$%^ thing up front right now, and/or LEASE a pre-production version and deal with the bugs, al la Dr. Dennis’ Mini. I really don’t know what else to do. Try me GM, I’m serious. I double dawg dare ya! Or is it dawgski, LOL?
Who used to say “Show me the car!”? Come on guys, make it happen.
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:44 pm)I thought that meant just below the logo/port where it had been in the first place, Just in front of the drivers (Left hand drive) door.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:44 pm)Rashiid,
Cloth seats don’t insulate your butt from the heating mechanism as well as leather seats. So, the heat transfer is quicker and hotter. Or maybe you have a heat generating butt. LOL.
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:45 pm)True enough, but it wouldn’t cool enough for you then!
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:47 pm)About all we have seen is a black roof surface that is very shiny. Could be glass or metal. I would suspect it will be metal for roll-over, etc. A strongly tinted glass or plexi-glass roof would be interesting. We will find out sooner or later – probably later than sooner.
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:49 pm)Wooooooooooooooo….??
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:49 pm)Kind of like: “The Volt has left the building”. Maybe GM could auction off the garage door and make some more money. Any bidders out there?
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:54 pm)The advantages of the Volt’s motor driven A/C compressor could be many:
In the first place, the days when you swelter at the red light and freeze when you’re at full speed will be gone. The compressor can run at the same power regardless of vehicle speed, or even, whether or not the engine is actually running.
The Volt compressor would be smaller and lighter. The need to produce usable cool at idle means that the belt-driven compressor must be made much larger than it would actually need to be if could be run at a constant speed.
It can be completely sealed. If you’ve ever wondered why the A/C in your car takes more service than the chiller in your ‘fridge, consider that belt-driven compressors must allow a turning shaft to operate through a system of seals which must withstand wide temperature variations, seasonal inactivity, and a broad speed range without failing. The result is often lost refrigerant. The Volt’s compressor would have more in common with a refrigerator’s (with similar impressive longevity).
The Volt compressor could be made to operate over a range of speeds on purpose so that less energy would be used when it is less hot outside. Compare this with the typical system which runs at engine speed and wastes cold air, or cycles on and off.
There is no particular reason to locate the Volt A/C system in the engine compartment. Of course, proximity to the evaporator and condenser will be a plus, but at least it wouldn’t be inaccessibly mounted, jiggling and hopping, on top of an engine. I’d expect this flexibility to be exploited more in future models; perhaps separate front / rear units in larger vehicles.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:54 pm)I LIKE the redesign! The proto didn’t ‘talk’ to me at all.
In the Silver-Blue or maybe a wine-red!
Ya, ya I know… you guys can have the black ones, no stress!
I will buy one (assuming I can get ahold of one Point 3 has me a bit concerned!)
Jun 24th, 2009 (1:59 pm)If I understand the situation as we discussed and read articles in the past about the assembly line, it is not the problem of assembling the assembly line but of designing, ordering and receiving the equipment that will stamp out all the panels and other parts needed to assemble the body. I assume that can not be completed until the IVers are built, corrected somewhat and tested. I was under the impression that the process of getting the equipment built and delivered would take more than 6 months, maybe as long as 9 months. I don’t remember the exact details that were discussed by one of the GM people about a year ago. Does anyone else remember anything? Am I within what you remember or am I completely off-base?
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:04 pm)… or perhaps the Volt would be something you plug in at the transformer …
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:06 pm)Industrial asynchronous induction motor usually failed when used on VFD (variable frequency drive) mainly for the belows reasons (may be out of order):
- Overheat (temperature rise + ambiant) vs duty cycle and minimum cooling requirement.
- Winding failure due to Corona effect (static charge accumulation) which can be lowered using a good magnetic wire insolation and winding structure practice). The “voltage spikes” (voltage rise dv/dt) are a consequence of odd harmonics generated by the VFD. Higher the voltage & the carrier frequency and the (capacitance) cable length, worse the voltage spikes will be.
- Bearings failure due to motor shaft bearing courant (arcing voltage differential between rotor and frame) or radial load excess but it does not applied for a direct coupling application. Bad lubrification is another one (high temperature is also a factor here).
I hope GM planned to add static ground brush to avoid premature courant bearing failure. http://www.est-aegis.com/about_aegis.htm
Otherwise, an induction AC motor can run for years at low/no maintenance at all.
Long life to the Voltec and their future evolution!
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:07 pm)I have a sneaking suspicion that this is the plan.
Do a cut/paste with the Orlando body and instant people mover!
Now do I think GM is going to sell you or I a ‘blank’ chassis? no way.
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:08 pm)I am certainly not smart enough on the gen set and motor to make any intelligent comment. Some of the things I was hoping for when compared to an ICE only vehicle was: 1) simplicity, 2) less weight, 3) space savings and 4) easier maintenance. I am sure I could think up a couple more things, but these are the ones that were in my mind as I read some of the replies to this comment.
I am not sure this design gives us much if any of that. Again, we will know more much later. Just not enough information for any of us to make an intelligent comment. But that hasn’t stopped some of us (me included) in the past and I know it will not in the future.
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:08 pm)grat: Your diagnosis may be accurate, but your bedside manner is atrocious. Have you been watching too much House?
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:10 pm)I don’t know if they are outsourcing, but I would assume that to be the case.
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:10 pm)I expect that there would be some kind of service port inside the engine compartment which would be usable in the event of a fender bender. Remember, it wouldn’t need to be all glitzy-ritzy, just a plastic part with a solid nylon cap. Perhaps it would be mounted on the internal charger itself (if it’s accessible enough) to save a wiring run.
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:14 pm)Did I understand Lyle correctly when he said: “One notable change was the location of the charge port. Now it will have its own door like a fuel tank and site below the front nameplate. The sliding cover design was abandoned due to risks of mechanical failure.”. Does that mean the charge port is in the grille? Under the Chevy badge? Or am I all wet here?
Edited: Seems my answer is given below. It is in the front. Bad placement I think.
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:18 pm)I believe you are right about that but this is the nature of prototyping, you try stuff and then move on to something else when it isn’t right.
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:26 pm)No sunroof. Deal breaker. Next case.
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:29 pm)Me too!
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:31 pm)Lyle said it was of the Camaro line and GM did not allow him to take a picture of the Volt line at this point. So moot point, I think.
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:32 pm)“Also, Lyle should get dibs on 1st production Volt off the line.”
Or at least ahead of Letterman!
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:33 pm)Good request.
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:35 pm)GM, you need to offer at least 3 models of the Volt from basic to all the bells and whistles. The price must come down for the average middle class person, as well as the price for solar panels and wind turbines. The majority of homeowners should be producing most of their own electricity by 2015 !!
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:36 pm)I am also relieved to have an alternative to the ‘giant iPod’ center stack … but the black version had better have back-lighted labels for all of those danged buttons.
“…when you press one of these black buttons, which is labeled in black on a black background, a little black light lights up black to let you know you’ve done it.”
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:36 pm)+1
I missed the starter function for the ICE
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:37 pm)Concerning the changes to this site, I am becoming convinced Lyle made these changes in order give GM personnel a better read of the comments and the replies to those individual comments. They would do their reading at least one day behind the postings so that most of the replies to the individual comments would be made. That would give GM, or anyone else, for that matter, a more comprehensive understanding of what we, the bloggers, are discussing and our viewpoints on such matters. Smart move by GM , if Lyle was influenced by GM to make these changes. Am I correct in my assessment, Lyle?
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:37 pm)There’s a Volkswagen commercial out now which you should see.
I still like the idea of downloading “car tones” to fake it your favorite way.
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:38 pm)If they don’t yet, they still have enough time ahead to fix it
+3
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:39 pm)It was john1701a. Funny thing, but I haven’t seen him recently. Couldn’t have had anything to do with too much positive Volt news, could it?
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:39 pm)As always Lyle – a great report. We can hear your excitement through your words – November 2010 can’t come fast enough!!!
I agree with Noel Park above – its time for GM to put a plan in place to get some of the early validation vehicles into the hands of real world consumers – just like they are doing with the Hydrogen Equinox’s with Project Driveway. Just one problem for Noel – Lyle gets to be first on the list! Bring ‘em on!
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:45 pm)I’m becoming a believer, it’s encouraging that the Volt will be a thoroughly built and tested (primarily) electric sedan relative to anything else on the market. Despite all my skepticism, I really do hope GM succeeds where it could not in the past. I’ve only recently noticed GM designs that are appealing or comparable to European designs and I’m sure the quality is there too. I just don’t think buyers will change that quickly after decades of poor quality, service, and mediocre designs. Things I like about GM: Volt, Corvette, NUMMI model, and a potential fresh start.
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:46 pm)Black/white center console color selection, doesn’t it make you think about iPod/iPhone thing?
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:49 pm)I have to disagree. Heated seats would be a waste of valuable battery capacity. The motor, inverter, and battery will be very efficient, but because of the large amount of energy being converted, there should still be several kilowatts of waste heat available to use in the passenger compartment … enough to keep even the Canadians warm.
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:53 pm)Capt Jack, those are Camaros being assembled last year. Lyle could not take a picture of the Volts being assembled.
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:55 pm)I don’t think GM controls the rediculous prices of Solar and or wind turbines.
I’ve looked into it, $20k to build a system (lead acid batteries) that could support ‘most’ of my power needs. IF the wind blows.
———————————————-
It certainly sounds like there will be at least two models, with leather and not.
Too many models could also send the wrong message, New GM is responsible afterall!
/Make mine ‘saddle’ leather! Yee Haw!
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:56 pm)http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/06/24/gm-veep-beth-lowery-future-volts-will-turn-a-profit/
GM Veep Beth Lowery: Future Volts will turn a profit
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (2:58 pm)Bring on the EV’s!!!!!!
“Ford to launch Focus BEV test fleet in the UK”
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/06/24/ford-to-launch-focus-bev-test-fleet-in-the-uk/
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge!
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:10 pm)I live in the South, but the main thing is build all the vehicles and other industrial equipment (and anything else we can imagine) in the U.S. I also don’t care if it is in a particular part of the country as long as it can be produced with quality and with the least expense as possible.
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:11 pm)“humidity down here that you’d get out of your car with wet pants.”
TMI!
OVERSHARE!
TMI!
OVERSHARE!
TMI!
OVERSHARE!
Ewe……
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:18 pm)The pictures of the Volt charge port had the word Volt on the sliding door. So, there is no side name plate other than the one right in front of the door where the original charge port was. Unless they are also shifting the Volt name on the side forward. Not much room to shift it forward, it looks to me. It seems it will be in the front grille. Not the best place for it, in my opinion. I would rather have it on the opposite side of the car from the gasoline filler door or in the back somewhere. I just don’t know. Have to wait and see what the final outcome will be.
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:20 pm)I’ve never had a sun roof leak, but on a long drive after many months below freezing, the layers of ice will begin to melt and it will start to “rain” in the car.
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:24 pm)It’s Ok eh…
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:26 pm)So then who’s the “Daddy”?
Lemme guess…….Nissan Armada?
AHAHAHAHAH!
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:27 pm)It was pure pleasure to read this report and see a picture of a completed IV.
It is worth the wait.
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:27 pm)Yeah, good luck. You need to live in the right places for the initial 10,000.
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:29 pm)Just smile at him………..
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:31 pm)Sunroof? Nice. I hadn’t noticed that before.
C’mon GM . . . do us proud. You are representing the nation now as “Government Motors”.
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:31 pm)I’m not willing to give up range for styling, even if I did think it was an improvement (and I think the concept was hideous.).
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:33 pm)Sorry, Noel, you know as well as I that will not happen until about this time next year. Maybe a little later. But you can always wish for it to be different.
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:35 pm)1) You don’t need batteries for a solar system. You shouldn’t get them unless you live in the middle of no where and are off the grid.
2) The cost of solar should be coming down of the next few years due to the new thin-film technologies. Even today you can build a good system for $20K, get state subsidies, and then claim a government tax credit.
See solar and wind subsidies here:
http://www.dsireusa.org/
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:38 pm)Three versions of Voltec have already been announced as a goal, though except for Chevy Volt not the specific models. The Cadillac Converj is a promising concept, but the official “greenlight” has not been given yet, as far as I know. It is widely speculated that the third vehicle will be a Buick CUV.
I think what you’ve asked for and more will be done, but it all takes time. 2015 is probably not a realistic timetable for widespread home energy production, for example; though it might be for the other Voltec models.
-7
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:39 pm)GREAT concept, but only the RICH will ever be able to afford this
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:40 pm)From looking at the pictures available for the Cruze Mules, it looks as if their charge port was located on the passenger side front fender slightly in front of the door. As opposed to the Volt mock-ups showing it on the driver’s side in the same location. So, nothing to tell about the new location as described by Lyle. In the grille does not make sense to me. I, too, worry about bugs and everything else being plastered on the door. Just have to wait and see, I guess.
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:42 pm)That is an interesting question!
One that I bet means that there will be some Volts ‘chillin’ in the great white north this winter!
This hoser is willing to bet that the seat heaters will be required though. I’m betting any ‘waste’ heat will be needed to keep the batteries from freezing.
(In February there is no such thing as ‘waste’ heat!)
-6
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:45 pm)What a shame we had to rescue this poorly ran company. Let it burn.
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:45 pm)FYI “: There is a post in fastlane :
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2009/06/first_pre-production_chevrolet_volt_charges_ahead_of_schedule.html
First Pre-production Chevrolet Volt Charges Ahead … of Schedule – with video and photo and live chat tomorrow 4.00 PM
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:47 pm)I always like to think we’re being heard, and for myself, I hope that I’m entertaining enough.
I’ve often though that there ought to be a pulldown for all screen names with the last 100 or so comments in order for each (I’ve seen this done on a couple of sites). This would make it easy for a researcher to, say, consult only ‘the oracle’ (known to us mere mortals as “statik”), while ignoring certain (ahem) others (hopefully not including me!)
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:48 pm)That sounds about right to me.
The only ‘auto’ factory I have been through was the Land Rover factory in Birmingham UK.
During the tour it was mentioned that the ‘stamps’ were VERY expensive and took a long time to replace if damaged. The tour was kept well away from them…
They were stamping floor pans for Discovery 3/LR3 and Range Rover Sport at the time. (same platform)
I think you are on base my friend!
+2
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:52 pm)Chuck: “ever” is an extremely powerful word. I don’t think it means what you think it means.
Your entire quote would have described the popular reaction to automobiles a century ago.
-1
Jun 24th, 2009 (3:53 pm)It sounds very much like installation of the battery is nearly the last step.
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:00 pm)I ‘think’ it’s becoming clearer why you are having ‘sunroof’ problems!!
I was thinking EVO 10
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:01 pm)No nothing to do with GM, but its a good thought. I wanted threaded comments a long time, it makes the conversations flow better and stimulates more discussion
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:06 pm)Thanks for the response to my question, Lyle. I know you are a very busy man. Gosh, I don’t know where you get all the time it must take just to get through a single day. But, that being aside, I had been thinking why you needed to change the threading methodology. I like it, but I don’t like it. As I said before, to really get the full impact of the comments and replies on each article, you really need to wait a day or two to read it over from the top to the bottom.
Thanks again for clearing this up.
Edited: I will agree about making it flow better. It is easier to follow the replies to a comment. We will get used to it and then think nothing about it. Great job, Lyle.
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:07 pm)My area does not allow individuals to upload to the grid as yet.
The credits are nowhere near that in Canada.
In a few years when I move to the farm I will be off-grid but it won’t be anything near cheap to setup.
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:14 pm)Tell him to pull your finger……
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:14 pm)I figure it will appear on one of the fender (wing for our UK friends) locations.
Personally the left side works better for where I will park the car!
Are you listening GM??? (I have always wanted to type that…)
I ‘could’ park the car differently but I hate change!
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:19 pm)I guess I am still confused by how Lyle explained where the charge port is going to be. He said:
“One notable change was the location of the charge port. Now it will have its own door like a fuel tank and site below the front nameplate. The sliding cover design was abandoned due to risks of mechanical failure.”
Now, that could mean that it is still on the driver’s side, but below where it was with its own fuel port style door. That would be understandable and be in a good place. I never liked any of the electric car proto-types I have seen with the charge port in the grille or anywhere on the front of the car.
Lyle, you just gotta clear this confusion up. Tell us exactly where it is now located – assuming GM is allowing you to do so.
+4
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:20 pm)Well, the first electric car sharing program started here in Baltimore, MD yesterday. 120 miles per charge (yes!, that’s like 80 miles more than a Volt !). Two-hour trip runs about $30. So far they have ten cars to choose from.
When can we rent a Volt ? Answer: Never (I don’t think they even exists for sale yet)
If you want to rent one go to http://www.altcar.org
They are fun to drive !
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:21 pm)Yet another BEV to be announced….
Nissan to unveil new electric car in Japan August 2
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/06/24/nissan-to-unveil-new-electric-car-in-japan-august-2/
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:23 pm)Damn moderation…..
WTF?
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:25 pm)Yet another BEV to be announced….
Nissan to unveil new electric car in Japan August 2
Google for: “Nissan to unveil new electric car in Japan August 2″
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:25 pm)That is $.25 per mile. I would assume they charge for insurance also. Is the $30.00 the full cost? Do they charge you for a re-charge fee? Still, I know you are proud, but the Volt is still much, much better – once it gets here. And it will. But I can see where a rental car system for around town running around would or could work out if they provide a good service at a “low” cost.
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:28 pm)I hear CA, specifically LA and San Fran, where the Women are strong and the Men are pretty.
Those two will probably close to the first on the list.
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:32 pm)That’s us , baby!
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:34 pm)I know. I’m just saying, the faithful are ready to ride to the sound of the guns.
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:34 pm)1. I get that you are trolling here, but at least pick a day for your own good that isn’t quite so positive for the Volt.
They are not yet available for sale which is why if your teeny little cars work at all that you have a chance for a little while.
2. My old Malibu is a hell of a lot cheaper to run than that.
3. Supply PROOF. 120 miles full electric would be impressive. Prove it.
+5
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:36 pm)Yes, this is the first electric car sharing program in the United States. Totally awesome. BTW, the Lithium batteries in those cars uses ExxonMobil advanced battery technology. Drop the Hate. Unfortunately, ExxonMobil is a world leader in battery technology, sorry Volt fans.
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:38 pm)We have three ideas floating around:
1. Car is badly designed so no one will buy it.
2. Car is too expensive so no one will buy it.
3. No one will actually be able to buy the car because demand will be too high.
_____________________
All pointing to the same thing, failure. Doesn’t matter to me though, I just hope I can get my hands on one of the early failures. Kind of like if only I could have what the sportswriters call a really bad day for Tiger Woods, once in my lifetime!
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:38 pm)I would not be so quick to suggest that this will hinder maintainability. After all, it benefits GM to design and build a platform that can be easily accessed and maintained by properly trained technicians. Combining the genset and motor also makes sense from a packaging stand point.
This is a small car with limited real estate. It must be optimized and to separate the two units would take space from the passenger or storage. Let’s first understand GM’s reasoning before we so quickly find fault.
This is really going to be a great car. I agree with all who have the foresight to see this is a game changer. It is and two years from now we’ll all see why.
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:40 pm)No problem. Lyle should clearly be first on the list. And plenty of others would appropriately be ahead of me.
I’m just saying, “Do SOMETHING even if it’s wrong!”
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:40 pm)See link
http://onlyhybrids.com/2009/06/24/nissan-to-unveil-new-electric-car-in-japan-august-2/
And being done with our money. Loan, but still our money with initial release for Japan only. Great going, America.
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:43 pm)The heated seat in my ‘98 buick Park Ave quick working back in ‘01 and the lumbar support in my ‘02 Chevy Silverado crumbled in ‘03.
I hope GM’s quality has improved… dramatically.
______________
Did I miss the punch line?
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:44 pm)Aw seeeeee….
You can post it but I can’t.
Sup wit dat?
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:45 pm)Right you are about the dog. I wouldn’t want cloth seats with a dog.
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:45 pm)Is it just me or does the site seem to load slower?
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:47 pm)So funny.
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:55 pm)The new inset response system astounds me because you can tell what thinking methodologies are used when the context is there. Amazing.
It happens exactly the same way in deep diagnostics in automotive.
You can tell right away how much someone is really “tuned-in” to a subject, and, how logical that person is, when they give you the correct “next statement” that is logical, not something that is “quickly-associative”/ unexpected/not-related to context.
Nearly everyone sincerely wants to learn, and does the mental “work” needed to learn.
The new “reply” changes really place excellent contextual value here, and, while it may be harder to process somethings, you get to be able to tell right away that a post has been constructed with true
“work” behind it. I really appreciate that.
You can tell if someone is really trying and working to understand something, as we like to do here regarding the Volt technology.
Running several videos at the same time might also help diversify the commentary, and increase interest and rates of learning.
Dan.
Jun 24th, 2009 (4:56 pm)I understand and agree. It was my fault for misunderstanding, the first time through.
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:01 pm)He’s gone from -6 to +8, Not a bad days work!
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:06 pm)Lutz said they could not do plexiglass as it’s usable life would be too short for the Volt.
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:07 pm)Rick Wagoner?
Ouch!
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:08 pm)*Cough* Tesla!
-1
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:09 pm)This sounds all nice, but is the overall quality of GM vehicles going improve from where they have been? If it doesn’t GM is going nowhere.
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:14 pm)These comments are meant in only positive ways as we all struggle to get a handle on the new technologies that are so very critical to our survival, it seems to me. (@ 81).
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:14 pm)Take deeps breaths and two days off.
Then come back.
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:23 pm)I was very hurt when I read your post Tag, so much so that I had to go straight out and ease my pain with endless strips of bacon for brunch…but I was still so full of grief that I decided the best way to soothe my pain, was to take the family out and immediately ride a zillion rollercoasters at Canada’s Wonderland.
/I immediately regretted that decision….so ill, lol
…I’m all better now though
(=
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:26 pm)Can’t build a line w/out IVers. They will be used to sort out the build issues. As Lyle wrote, “Little fit variations or flaws are detected such as for example the fit of the hood or rear window, and then are hand corrected for the next iteration.”
My guess is, without this step they could tool up for the validation builds not knowing if there are problems that would need a tear down or re-tooling within the production line to get their builds correct. Or even be in a (nightmare) situation where hand built corrections are required for individual vehicles to meet production goals.
So my take is, it serves like a combo of blueprints, build experience and the physical jig used to create the line, and the Validation build prototypes are used for final calibration before mass production ramps.
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:33 pm)According to Consumer reports, they’re improving. And so is Ford.
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/resource-center/automakers-bailout/overview/automaker-bailout-ov.htm
And, since their surveys have a built-in bias against domestic cars–it’s a really big deal that they’re noticing an improvement.
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:33 pm)My guess for one models suits all is,
1) If you have a basic model, it is harder to hide the extra value/expense to the consumer. So if you have add all the upgrades which only cost 1/2 of what you are charged, the car becomes more competitive. Imagine buying a Volt for 25k and it doesn’t have air-conditioning, LCD displays, electric windows, basic upholstery, etc… But if you put in 10k worth of accessories which only really cost 5k to add (given the usual mark up and now being fitted at production level) whilst only charging the 5k for them, it will look like you’re getting more for your dollars.
2) The other benefit is the car itself will look and feel better thus providing an image of “excellence” or “opulence” whilst having the “good conscience” persona.
The Volt simply has to be a hit, so there is a lot riding on this. With only 10,000 initial cars being produced, GM will not have any trouble selling these cars at such a high price.
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:34 pm)Yet another example of outdated preconceptions. Lots of people call the new Camaro a gas guzzler, even though a 300 HP car that gets about 30 MPG can’t really be called that.
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:34 pm)I have no doubt it can be done…anything can if you throw enough time and money at it. All I am pointing out is the timeline for the Camaro…which was a fairly high priority as well. Logically, and using history as a guide, I just don’t see how they can improve on this standard by more than a small margin…and itappears they are behind the curve now (granted I don’t know anymore than anyone else about the ‘behind the scenes happenings).
As you say, ‘generic’ components are a lot easier to get in place…but the Volt is another beast entirely. Just yesterday we had a post saying there was 150-odd unique parts to do with the battery assembly itself. Which brings us to the fact that GM has decided to fabricate the battery housing, etc as well…so that means they actually have to get two production lines up and running.
Hopefully they get it done…as I have said before, I am delighted to be wrong if that means I get a shiny new Volt in my driveway. If GM funnels a good chunk of the ‘new’ cash from the government into this project, I’m sure it can be done.
/peace… (=
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:40 pm)I assume that statement includes all of the foreign car companys that take money from their guberments. And most assuredly the Japanese companys that take OUR TAX MONEY.
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:41 pm)On the plus side, that sounds like it must be easy to install, which is a good thing for an electric car!
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:46 pm)IMO, it will be exceptionally solidly engineered. Perhaps a little over-engineered (bulletproof). You will pay for that though with the first public iterations. I agree that optimizing should take the cost down. The bugs will pop up in places where a 100 years of auto engineering and manufacturing could not anticipate them!
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:47 pm)” White or black will be options”
That’s a relief. I always found the ipod-white center console to be an eyesore. I was afraid that this would be a deal breaker for many people, but apparently that problem has been resolved. A nice, lustrous black center console should been very pleasing to look at indeed.
-2
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:51 pm)This really needs to stop
The #1 selling cars in the United States of America are Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. The 10 year cost of owning a Volt will be very similar to the 10 year cost of owning a Camry or Accord. Yet, these are the cars that most find they can afford.
Fact: The Volt is a very expensive compact car.
Fact: The Volt is the most expensive main brand compact car sold by an “American Car” company
Fiction: The Volt is the most expensive compact car on the market
Fiction: The Volt is significantly more expensive than other mainstream cars
+1
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:54 pm)Here’s another pic of the Volt on a drive…
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/06/24/volt-chief-engineer-takes-first-drive-in-integration-prototype/
Is just me or does it have the Insight/Pruis’esque form?
I guess that’s what the wind tunnel will do to a design.
-2
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:56 pm)uRoc
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:57 pm)I have heated leather seats in my ’04 Red Line Vue. It’s great for the cold mornings here in TX, or when I drive to see the in-laws in Detroit. But they’re REALLY nice when I’ve been working in the yard all weekend and need some muscle relaxation on the way to work Monday morning!
The point behind the heated seats isn’t to be a luxury item. It’s to save energy – it’s more efficient to heat the body directly via the seat than to heat all the air in the cabin, thereby heating the occupants indirectly. You can tolerate 55 degree F air better when your bum is all toasty from the heated seats! Pretty clever, if you ask me. I just wish they could also manage cooled seats!
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:57 pm)Volt IV is out two weeks ahead of schedule says Bloomberg
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aSRelgaCyJDs
It pleasing to see Wall St start to comment on the progress of the Volt
I imagine there will be dancing in the streets of motor city (Motown)
Jun 24th, 2009 (5:59 pm)In this pic you can see the charge port….
http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/first-chevy-volt-integration-prototype/2105350/
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:01 pm)Yeah, I was thinking about the same thing for my young son. Maybe he will adopt a solution similar to mine – Think Jetsons theme song if you remember that old cartoon.
Time will tell.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:01 pm)Cloth is better at pulling heat away from the body, leather is better for keeping you warm, especially with heated seats. In hot climates, the cloth is preferable, especially in convertibles… but man I love leather seats… I live in Texas and I never want to buy a daily driver that doesn’t have heated leather seats. My track toy Miata, for sure I want cloth!
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:02 pm)In the post he says he was there 12 days after the assembly was begun. I forget the start date but that was a little while ago, probably when he visited the battery lab.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:03 pm)+1 on that for the Texan here…
I believe I read that at some point, they’ll offer a solar panel roof that will help cool the car while it’s parked in the sun (I presume by running fans to circulate air into/out of the car). We’ll see how well that works. Hopefully in 10 years the solar cells will be more efficient and the large surfaces can all be solar collectors to help recharge the main packs while parked.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:06 pm)I think some of them are still here, but they are just using different bait.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:11 pm)FYI :
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2009/06/first_pre-production_chevrolet_volt_charges_ahead_of_schedule.html
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:11 pm)1. Is the public going to be able to own one of these or only lease it like the EV1. 2. I still want just an electrice car not some type of combination car.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:11 pm)Here’s another link posted an hour ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMC7Uxs95w0
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:20 pm)Captain, can’t tell you what is the deal with moderation but I can tell you the projected numbers are impressive. 150,000 cars a year is not anything to sneeze at. Will be great to see what Nissan can pull off. Nice catch.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:21 pm)After the testing was completed there was no point in selling the EV1 to the leasees, lots of legal liability if the cars failed and killed someone. Had the EV1 been based on an existing car then there would have been fewer problems, but GM chose a revolutionary completely new design.. they really gave it a try. Gas at $1 a gallon did not help either.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:21 pm)I’m in S. Florida, the humidity capitol, but I haven’t seen cooled seats present a condensation problem. That is one of the options I’ve been pushing for to save Watts and cool down faster.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:21 pm)Interesting occurrences in domestic solar energy.
The prices for home solar have come down as demand for all things silicon suffers in the recession. If you live in a sunbelt state with incentives there is really good news.
Some lenders are accepting rebates and credits as down payments and structuring the payments to be equal to or less than the energy bills that will be replaced. There are groups forming to get discounts from suppliers and installers, and the value of the houses immediately appreciates to account for the lower monthly costs/energy inflation hedge. Helpful for folks who lost a lot of value in their homes the last couple of years.
This is like having solar panels on your Volt, only in a more cost effective way, AND not going to the gas station much at all, increasing the value of your house AND supplying your own home and automotive energy.
-1
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:23 pm)I don’t buy products from the UAW!!
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:25 pm)Ehh… then don’t put your dog in your $40,000 car.
I’ll take cloth seats that are both heated and cooled, nothing worse than sitting on super-hot leather in the summer and having to suffer through sticky-back to work.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:30 pm)Has anyone seen the VOLT in the new Transformers movie?
I can’t go until Saturday.
Just wondering if it really looks cool in “JOLT Blue”.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:33 pm)Plexiglass or other plastics would have a short life in the Florida sun, maybe 4 years tops before it started crazing.. but if it was cheap enough then just replace it.. it could also be an option, make the removable factory stock roof sheet metal. Probably too crazy an idea.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:38 pm)Lyle put up a new thread….
Go getem!
+3
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:39 pm)Then don’t buy BIATCH!!!
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:41 pm)Yes, sort of I think. There are two shafts from this housing as MuddyRoverRob explains. Yes, Volt is front wheel drive. The 53KW generator does not Just feed the battery as some suggest, but rather “most” of the power goes to the 112KW traction motor (at least as much as GM’s efficiency, noise/vibration minimizing control algorithms can keep from entering the battery). But, the generator must first pass through the power electronics module before being routed to 112KW motor and/or battery. This allows the power electronics module to be very close to both “motors”, saving weight and gaining efficiency.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:43 pm)I know Tesla changed to liquid cooling for their 1.5 version but didn’t remember GM stating liquid cooling. Not that this is good or bad, just news to me.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:49 pm)Although I don’t work in the Auto Industry, I have worked in (Engineering) Supply Chain for assembly of large finished transportation products.
When building custom machining and tooling, an issue can often be availiblity of material… especially large hard peices of material such as used for producing stamps.
However, if the fabrication partners/GM are willing to asborb some additional costs/risks, many of the base materials can be ordered before final configuration of the tooling is finished. This can shave months off the lead time for certain parts. I personally have used this technique, albiet at a cost penalty.
Jun 24th, 2009 (6:56 pm)“AWD Audi/Subaru competitor”
I would say “superior” since both Audi and Suburu suffer significant drivetrain losses in thier implementation of AWD. Electric motor(s) should offer much closer to efficieny of FWD. I think that if we the Auto industry truely moves to EREV/Electric that AWD should become standard rather than premium.
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:00 pm)Great that they got rid of the auto-mechanical door but bad if they put it in front. I hope Lyle meant below the nameplate on the side (in front of the nameplate on the rear?), close to where the port was located before.
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:18 pm)This is pretty cool – an overview of the production process for a revolutionary vehicle.
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:25 pm)“I actually ‘may’ have seen the next major step in the process for the Camaro, which is building the pilot pre-production assembly line, (complete with machining)…and it is a big, time consuming step with zillions of working parts to not only fabiricate, but get into place, and that is a major step ahead of where we are with the Volt atm.
When I may (or may not) have seen it, it was late march of 2008, (fairly early still in the process)…and as you know, they just started releasing Camaros about a year later.”
I am confused about the pessimism here… Camaros started being built in March 2009 and delievered starting in April 2009. Applying the same logic to the Volt, GM has until Nov. 2009 (5 months) to reach the same point on the Volt program…
Not being really into Camaros, I don’t know their exact dates, but I thought their IVs were being tested in the Oct-Dec 2007 Time frame…. pretty much exactly the same point before product the Volt is at right now.
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:33 pm)THE CHARGE PORT LOCATION
The charge port, I think, is definitely in a poor location for all of us who will use this car in winter (if I read this blog right):
“One notable change was the location of the charge port. Now it will have its own door like a fuel tank and site below the front nameplate. The sliding cover design was abandoned due to risks of mechanical failure”.
The charge port is ‘below’ the front name plate. I am making an assumption this is a design consideration in that folks drive into a parking space.
I drive through rural road snow; salt conditions; freezing rain; Country drivers like me always encountering small animals. All these variables are going to play havoc with a charge door that is suppose to open at the front….is that where it is located? OR on the side of the vehicle. I am so confused. LOL.
I want the car. I commute 40 miles every day. I want to buy it. Solar panels will fly up at my home so my travel is free of OIL. Seriously. But my initial reaction is…not with the charge door at the front of the vehicle below the front licence plate. WOW! I don’t get it. How have the factors I mention, above, been dealt with in engineering design?
I recommend: Celebrate the door (laugh – but hey, I’m serious!). Show it off. Make it stand out. Nothing to be ashamed about. Chrome the door!!! I mean why do we have to bend down and plug the car in – that’s just not right. I want my neighbour to see my smiling face….not my ‘derriere’.
Also, the demographic who buy this car my guess is will, initially, be older, with spare money – it won’t be an inexpensive car at first. A lot of us have bad backs. I want to stand and plug the vehicle in!
. Pullleezze!!
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:39 pm)iv, Iv, IV, IV!!!
Great news! Can’t wait for more details.
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:40 pm)[...] Source. [...]
Jun 24th, 2009 (7:49 pm)Whew, I’ll sleep better tonight (lol). Seriously, I DID guess that you were “out to lunch”, er, so to speak.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:21 pm)When the powertrain later used in the 1997 Prius was invented and patented in 1974, it had two electric motor/generators. One was primarily the drive/regen motor, the other was used for starting the ICE and battery charging. BTW, is the ICE in the Volt conventional or Atkinson cycle?
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:31 pm)Just to answer your question. Camaros started coming off the line in March 2009 (vin #0001 on March 17th)…real volume came about a month later.
I am not sure exaclty when the ‘pre-production’ line started to take shape on-site in Oshawa, I just know it was well under construction in March of 2008. I couild only speculate how long exactly work had been going on before that…and I don’t want to misrepresent anything. I don’t work for GM, nor am I privvy to that sort of knowledge. (I’m sure there are people lurking here that work in Oshawa coud probably tell you…if they don’t fear for their job, lol).
So from being well into the pre-fab line on-site in Oshawa to the first production vehicle was greater than 1 year, thats why I said reasonably speaking they have 3-4 months (which would bring us to October 2009) to get to a similar progression point to reasonably expect the same end date.
They could work ‘faster’ with the Volt, but they also have a good deal more work to do, as the Zeta Oshawa line was basically a cut&paste of the existing Holden line already in operation in Australia…and didn’t include reinventing the wheel (sort to speak), like fabricating batteries, casing, cooling and propulsion.
I’m also not sure how long a period the Camaro was in the ‘integration’ phase either. I could dig around and probably find out…but I’m feeling a bit lazy atm. (=
Side note: Not really trying to be a downer here…I am very happy that GM is at this point. Just trying to give reference to where this step generally falls on a build timeline. (I reconciled to myself a long time ago that I likely wouldn’t be able to get a car until 2012, so to me….this progression is A-OK)
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:35 pm)I’m just toughening you up Tag…you have had it too easy the last few months, heeh. (at least on the forums)
I’m glad I have been re-upgraded to ‘Be well’ from ‘Be Ok’….such passive aggression, so not like you. (=
(I really wasn’t trying to rain on the parade. I tried to express that I felt today was a good day, I just had the compulsive need to share my Zeta platform story)
Have a good one my friend,
Stat
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:47 pm)Ahh, you mistook my sadness for passive aggression. That happens with amateurs (lol). I’m affraid that I too have built up some expectations, such as “Statik posted”=”what follows will not be positive in nature” It will, however, almost always test positively for facts.
After a year or so of consistency, it’s an understandable mistake (heh).
Be very well,
Tagamet
NPNS
Jun 24th, 2009 (8:47 pm)I keep watching this video and I can’t help thinking it’s good they call themselves General Motors and not General Engines.
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:39 pm)Now can we get a 2 seat convertible?
Jun 24th, 2009 (9:41 pm)[...] Source. [...]
-2
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:24 pm)These new electric cars will only make the government start taxing you on milage driven. Hell, they may even have you strap on a GPS on the vehicle or have you report in to DMV and get an inspection of your odometer.
You think you are free from big oil? Perhaps for the moment, never free from taxation. You think the government will allow you to get a free ride? NO FUEL TAX (no fuel use) = milage taxation.
Just wait, you will see. The “green” agenda, another devised plan to tax and control more.
Jun 24th, 2009 (10:56 pm)For now, none of that exists. Be an early adopter and enjoy it while you can.
Jun 25th, 2009 (12:39 am)What a downer. I’d be pissed.
Jun 25th, 2009 (2:12 am)In the movie Transformers 2, I think the Volt was in only a single scene for less than a second or two. I only knew it was the Volt because it was the only blue car. No way to tell otherwise.
Kinda disappointing.
Jun 25th, 2009 (4:10 am)Thank god they listened and have a choise of 2 console colours
I have mine in black as per above. (White was to puke over)
Now if we will be able to afford it in Australia when it becomes available.
The Good thing is that you “Yanks” can test them for us, so will know what to expect. Just don’t make the suspension set up like a row boat, please go Europeon or get a GM Holden engineer out – they know how to make a car handle believe it.
Personaly I’d rather the volt technology be built in a Holden Cruze in South Australia
No Offence Hamtrack people, but my Oz Holden is a dam fine built car compared to the NA species.
So show us NA what you can do – were waiting here in OZ … eventually …….
The Voltec is going to be a winner !!!
Jun 25th, 2009 (5:44 am)Well… someone has to pay taxes!.. maybe pay a big chunk when you register a car.
Jun 25th, 2009 (5:51 am)Trust the engineers, they think about things like this.. front nameplate is not at the front of the car, it is on the side, just in front of the door.
Good point on chroming the door..
Jun 25th, 2009 (8:10 am)I love Jason, he’s #1!
Jun 25th, 2009 (8:19 am)You can thank trial lawyers for the the “crushing” thing. They would love to sue GM.gov for the smallest problem you had on the road. Imagine your prototype being involved in a fatal accident.
Jun 25th, 2009 (8:43 am)Best post Lyle has put up in a long time…. awesome… thumbs up.
Jun 25th, 2009 (9:22 am)You’ve got it! Finally, a good portion of the public will be excited to spend their dollars on some PV arrays and small turbines because (even though it’s *very* small) they are sending themselves down the road with some natural energy!
Modern Day Sailors!
Jun 25th, 2009 (9:24 am)Thanks, Capt Jack. That certainly answers the question of where they put the new charge port position. Much better than the front of the vehicle. But I wonder if a square with rounded corners would not look better. But, hey, I am satisfied with the location. Best place. Right where the driver can see it and get to it easy.
Jun 25th, 2009 (9:58 am)Packaging the two motors with a single speed reduction gear (electric motors shafts spin faster than axles), they have complicated an upgrade to a two-speed transmission. The Volt has a top speed of 120 MPH, but could deliver alot more power in the 0-60 MPH range if a higher gear ratio were used. This could cut 2-3 sec off the Volt’s 0-60 MPH time. So I believe we will eventually see a 2-speed gearbox in the Volt, a low gear (“City range”) for 0-80 MPH and a “Highway range” to 120 MPH. For now they could just split the difference and make a 0-90 MPH single gear version, which most Americans would opt for to get the improved performance.
According to John Laukner (GM Global Marketing Exec) the gearing tradeoff and the genset capacity were chosen to allow the Volt to run all day on the German Autobahn. I really wish they had optimized for the American commuter first, then made a “Volt SS” version for the Germans; though maybe “SS” would be the wrong designation
Dr Mark
Jun 25th, 2009 (10:44 am)Here is the question nobody seems to be asking, let alone answering: For those consumers who will be unable to plug in the car overnight (or on most other times), what will be the fuel economy compared to a parallel hybrid, such as the current Toyota/Ford models? Many Americans live in apartment buildings and park on the street, where cars such as the Chevrolet Volt will not be regularly be plugged in. In other words, how will the ceteris paibus performance of a parallel hybrid be vs a serial hybrid?
Jun 25th, 2009 (11:28 am)More pics please!!! Or was it secrecy all around?
Jun 25th, 2009 (11:37 am)When they put this drive train in a two door sporter looking car(camaro) is when I’ll buy one
+2
Jun 25th, 2009 (12:26 pm)Yeah $32,500 is for those elite middle-middle class people
You are correct a kid flipping burgers will not be able to afford this car.
-1
Jun 25th, 2009 (12:41 pm)Well, while the first generation of Volts will certainly be more expensive than other “regular” cars in that class, you’ll always find that the first generation of ANYTHING new is usually more expensive than previous stuff (and that’s a truer statement than ‘only the RICH can EVER afford it’
While it is more expensive to buy it initially, you’re saving money on gas everyday, and while I didn’t research any statistics and estimates, I’m convinced financially a Volt will be a wash with other more fuel-sipping cars in its class.
Now think ahead, two, five, ten years when electric cars reach the mainstream, coupled with better, smaller, and cheaper batteries, and we achieve true economies of scale. The price differences between traditional cars and electric cars are set to disappear over time.
Jun 25th, 2009 (1:13 pm)Doesn’t anyone remember what the first color TV and VCR. cost. YOu Have to start somewhere!
+3
Jun 25th, 2009 (1:18 pm)A kid flipping burgers can’t afford ANY new car, period. He can afford a 10 year old car on a used car lot or a hand me down from his parents.
Nor should a kid flipping burgers be able to afford new car. A bus pass maybe. When I flipped burgers (and worked in a refinery, a porta-potty cleaning service, etc.), It inspired me to stay the heck in school and get an education. I don’t want burger flippers to be able to afford new cars, even cheap ones. They won’t be motivated to do better.
Jun 25th, 2009 (1:22 pm)Did you ever think that ALL new cars go through this exact same process? But nobody outside the industry gives a rats fanny. Now that people like us are getting a peek at NORMAL design cycles of automobiles, they are shocked that it actually takes work to design, test, and put the thing into production. It doesn’t go from a computer screen to the assembly plant like magic.
Jun 25th, 2009 (1:26 pm)Really, leather seats? Eew.
Shameful.
Jun 25th, 2009 (7:08 pm)nice interior
Jun 25th, 2009 (8:37 pm)I been reading and enjoying the discussion amongst the Voltees for awhile now – Thank you for the educational experience.
I am not sure about introducing questions that may be may considered be off-topic but I have this nagging question “how easy would it be to configure any breakthoughs in battery technoligy into my volt” – it seems that just over the horizon there is a 100 mile battery. I would think that my battery pack might have some trade-in value and would like to replace it.
Has this been discussed already?
Jun 25th, 2009 (10:07 pm)Totally agree. This is a suboptimal design where they are trying to fit an EREV into a traditional package. They have not shown much creativity for the internal design (or external design as well).
The whole idea of next to none maintenance is being negated by this awkward assembly. Instead of simplifying the mechanics, they seem to cherish complexity and failure – maybe they are counting on service revenue.
There is absoluely no good reason why the generator should be housed with the motor. In fact they should try to eliminate the differential and put in 2 motors. But the idiots that this bankrupt company contains, couldn’t figure that out in time.
Any more reason needed why they are bankrupt?
+1
Jun 25th, 2009 (10:53 pm)I’m glad that the Volt is now becoming a reality, but I am scared to think that GM might jinx this car like they did the EV1. If the Volt is $40,000 I can garantee I won’t buy one. I currently have a non hybrid that gets 36 miles average, and it costs $15,500. GM need to be realistic, the people who desperately need this car are those who can’t afford the gas. Don’t cater to the rich, be the next (Classic) VW Bug…the everyman’s car! Prius $24,900, insight $19,800, Yaris $14,999, Corolla $15,999…GM needs to market around these vehicles to win.
Jun 26th, 2009 (7:10 pm)You are right – bang on.
Volt will go down as a “has been that never was”.
Many things wrong with it. Wait for the Japanese to send New GM back to the bankruptcy court.
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:12 pm)$32,500, $32,500, $32,500… $7500 tax credit, got it?!
Tax CREDIT is a big deal… much better than a tax deduction. In reality you’re getting $10,000 pre-tax dollars off this car (or a little more or less, depending on your tax bracket).
Say you make $50,000 a year. You pay $7,642.00 in federal taxes, taking home $42,358. With the credit, your total federal taxes for the year will be $142, and you get to take home $49,858.
To take home the same amount of money by increasing your salary (pre-tax money), you would have to increase your salary to $60,000 (you pay $10,142.00 federal tax, for a total of $49,858).
Moral of the story? Getting a $7,500 tax credit for this car is equivalent to getting a $10,000 bonus at work.
Had it been a DEDUCTION, your income will be calculated as $42,500, leaving you to still pay $5,767.00 in federal taxes for a savings of only $1875
By the way, you can’t really compare 36mpg to infinite mpg for under 40 miles… and let’s be honest, if you can’t afford gas at $2.xx a gallon ($1200 a year @ 15000 miles, 36 mpgs, $2.79/gal) then you really can’t afford a new car no matter what the price.
http://www.paycheckcity.com/netpaycalc/netpaycalculator.asp
Jun 27th, 2009 (10:16 pm)Good question, I’d like an answer to this too, I have boxes of outdated computer equipment… 4GB hard drives, 32MB memory sticks… but those cost $100 max, I’d hate to be left with a $10,000 outdated battery
Jul 1st, 2009 (3:34 pm)I’m looking forward to the Volt. I think G M is on the right track. Good luck and Gods speed
Jul 4th, 2009 (1:32 pm)I agree! I have 6 kids from 22 years to 6. I want them to aspire instead of expect.
Jul 11th, 2009 (9:55 pm)I’m waiting on my volt, just thinking no gas in town, so sweet
Mar 10th, 2010 (10:24 am)Not certain if you have done this by design, however the colorings of your typefaces are extremely akin to your background coloring – it makes it quite challenging to read anything.