Grab our RSS Feed

AND

Nissan Plans to Build EVs and Batteries in USA

June 20th, 2009 | Posted in: BEV, Competitors, Original GM-Volt Interviews

In an effort to gain access to US government green loans, Nissan has intentions to build both an EV assembly plant and a lithium-ion battery production facility in the United States, according to Japanese newspaper Nikkei.

The company will invest between $500 million and $1 billion in the operation.

Nissan presently has a plant in Smyrna Tennessee. It is that facility which would be converted to both produce EVs and lithium-ion batteries. The battery production facility would be a joint venture with NEC.

Nissan expects to be able to produce 50,000 to 100,000 electric vehicles per year there by 2012, with the first one being a small passenger car.

Also you will notice we are trialing threaded comments. To reply to someone else, simply click reply. You can still start a new comment thread too in the usual way

Source (Automotive News)

Posted by: Lyle

97 Responses to “Nissan Plans to Build EVs and Batteries in USA”

+4 Dave K. Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 8:51 pm

Interesting, last year at the L.A. Auto Show the Nissan representative gave me a flat “no” when asked about electric cars. Maybe they are seeing the light?

=D~

(Quote)
Magilla Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 8:57 pm

I wouldn’t say it’s the light per se.

I expecting that Nissan is seeing green … dollar signs.

(Quote)
-1 Dan Petit Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 9:04 pm

While this is really upbeat news for more USA jobs, and, a further acceleration of green electric motoring, my optimism has an element of caution.

A BEV does not have the GM EREV for the redundancy-back-up by the Genset to prevent a possible battery array overload via excessive discharge during excessive transit.

Also, a degredation “domino effect” (if there were an excessive discharge of the pack repeatedly, and left un-recharged for a long time some reason), then very many cells might begin to degrade prematurely without an “in transit” corrective and protective measure by a Genset.

I just hope their warranties are as good as GM’s 150,000 mile battery warranty.

But the race is on. It is not who builds it first, it is who builds it best and backs it best.

You know where my bets are.
Dan.

(Quote)
jbfalaska Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 9:09 pm

GM Volt – ready to go, when will we get the chance to put down a deposit? Even the Prius is taking orders, why not Volt?

(Quote)
nataraj Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 9:14 pm

Nissan has always said they will do EV instead of hybrids that Toyota and Honda are betting on. Considering my experience with Nissan I’d buy that EV in a heartbeat …

I think for American families, one EREV like Volt and one pure EV like Mitsu/Nissan with 100 mile range would be very practical.

We need to view EV like people viewed HDTV ten years back.

(Quote)
jdsv Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 9:21 pm

$500 million to $1 billion, eh? Is that a lot for a project like this? At any rate, hooray for Nissan bucking the Japanese hybrid-only trend! I am a one-vehicle household with a need of 160 mile range, but this looks GOOD!

NPNS INDEED!

(Quote)
John Doe Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 9:41 pm

Why don’t you talk about GM’s presentation on the 12th to
Congress Lyle. In this presentation GM expressed a desire
to continue research into hydrogen and fuel cells. A note of concern was raised about batteries with GM pointing out that batteries tend to be too heavy for the power they deliver.

(Quote)
+1 Kent Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 9:53 pm

All this talk is great,,,,and we’ve all been hearing a lot of this “talk”. Speaking for myself only, I’m no longer excited by any of this news. I’ll get excited when I actually see electric cars in the showroom.

(Quote)
-2 iRoc Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 10:27 pm

The more EV’s the better.

The Nissan won’t compete with the Volt … the aerodynamics and looks aren’t in the same league … if only GM would GET RID OF THAT FAKE GRILL on the Volt!!!

(Quote)
+1 ChrisC Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 10:40 pm

Whatever puts 1 million EVs on the road by 2015 is cool with me! Once the transformation starts it will be hard to stop, especially with all the breakthroughs you read about with batteries lately. We are just around the corner. I hope gas goes back up to 4 or 5 bucks a gallon to really stimulate it.

(Quote)
+1 statik Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 10:58 pm

Water is warm…c’mon in.

As was mentioned before in this thread, it is hard getting overly excited about this kind of news/announcement, but at some point these companies will make good…and that will be a good day. And I do believe Nissan to be a serious participant in this ‘future’ segment.

Remember back in 2007 when it seemed like everytime you turned around the magic year everyone was coming to market was 2010? I guess 2012 is the new 2010…because there is seemingly nothing coming anytime soon still.

/sigh

(Quote)
PLJ Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 11:27 pm

While I applaud Nissan’s commitment to this alternative method of power and I support every effort to get us off our dependence on foreign oil, I think it is misguided to think that pure BEV’s are the wave of the future.

They will play a roll. I think fleet vehicles – for example, the US post office – could easily go this way.

However, for the vast majority of Americans, who have a LIFESTYLE that requires driving that is worry-free from running out of battery power and requires having a ready source of fuel to power them down the road – any time, anywhere – the Chevy Volt and the EREV technology is the ONLY currently viable solution to this problem.

(Quote)
+1 NZDavid Says:
June 20th, 2009 at 11:46 pm

Statik says: Remember back in 2007 when it seemed like everytime you turned around the magic year everyone was coming to market was 2010? I guess 2012 is the new 2010…because there is seemingly nothing coming anytime soon still.

It’s always been 2012 for me! I am just praying it doesn’t turn into 2014, I don’t think I could keep my NO plug, NO sale, mantra going that long. I might have to bend it to plug ‘capable’ and buy a Prius. That is mainly why I am giving serious consideration to the i-MiEV, which will possibly have limited sales here in 2010 and more in 2011 which fits my time frame nicely.

Under normal circumstances I would have traded my current gasser in the 2007 year as it reached 10 years old, I blame Lyle for the fall in the SAAR, obviously everyone thinks like me and is putting off a new purchase untill EV’s rule!

NO plug, NO sale
LJGTVWOTR

(Quote)
omnimoeish Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 12:06 am

The success of BEVs all depends on the price of the BEVs, the price of gas, and in a long term big picture, the longevity of the battery. I know that’s not profound, but it’s really true.

For people who commute long distances by themselves and have a minivan or something for family vacations, BEVs are a perfect fit. People who commute these long distances are racking up so many miles on their vehicles that they can hardly give them away. Those are the ones for sale with 100,000 miles and are only 5 years old, the seller often takes a $15,000 hit from the original MSRP they paid, it’d be cheaper to buy a new battery and keep that thing rolling, especially when you’re saving $200+/month in gas.

We have an electric heat pump for heating and A/C at our house that is 16 years old and we’ve never had any problems with it. The technician just came to our house yesterday and told us that it’s run the equivalent of 2.5 million miles or something (I’m not sure what math he based that on, but seeings how its running at least 8 hours a day 365 days a year, for 16 years, I wouldn’t doubt it). The electric motor itself (not including the condenser etc. that run the AC) could probably go another 10 or more years easily I’d guess. Once batteries can match the longevity of an average ICE car, ~ 20 years, it will be a beautiful day for cars. My question is when will that day be? It might be soon upon us, or it might not be here for 20 years.

(Quote)
John Es Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 12:14 am

It seems like every time I read a few posts on this site, there’s somebody saying they need a 100+ mile range. Well, let me just say that a 60 mile range is more than enough for me. That easily gets me to work and back and allows plenty of cushion for shopping and entertainment detours. The only time I would drive more miles than that, I would just be joy-riding. Given that I live in Phoenix, which could be the worst case of urban sprawl in America, I tend to believe the market for BEVs is plenty big.

(Quote)
Nissan Plans to Build EVs and Batteries in USA | GM-VOLT : Chevy … | welcome2green.com Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 12:14 am
Anthony BC Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 1:19 am

Alright Nissan! The more, the better!

Boy, someone’s going to make a killing selling portable generators for all the EVs coming out in 2012 !!!

GO EV !!!

(Quote)
KentT Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 1:44 am

Great. Another 2 seat, 90 mile range joke of an electric car. AND they have the gall to expect US government money to remake a square EV1.

Yawn.

Wake me when Lyle posts his blog on a production Volt.

(Quote)
Zach Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 2:02 am

I disagree that the US government give loans or discounts or tax credits or anything to foreign companies.

#1) It’s not going to support the US economy.
#2) No other country would do that.

(Quote)
-1 avatar Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 2:03 am

Go Nissan!

Pure EV transportation will have a die-hard following (no pun intended for those who remember the Die-Hard batteries).

EREV will have a strong following as noted within this blog.

Price, quality, and service/warranty will make or break any manufacturer’s dream of selling the “holy grail” of automotive propulsion systems.

Current batter – ICE
On Deck – EREV
In the Hole – BEV
Dugout – Fuel Cells / Hydrogen or biomass- who knows?

Build them and let the market decide the eventual winner.

(Quote)
David Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 2:08 am

Doesn’t it seem that every week we’re hearing news about a car company that is planning on rolling out an EV or building a plant for something somewhere?

It’s kinda feeling like a bunch of stuff is being launched at the wall, and I for one am continually fascinated to see what will end up sticking.

And, it’s not just with cars – I heard on the news recently that there are more peeps employed in this country in the wind electricity generating industry than in coal mining and although there may be many reasons for that, it is nonetheless fascinating to see all this taking place.

As a former head of Shell said, “We didn’t move out of the stone age because we ran out of rock, we did so because we found something better.”

(Quote)
+1 Shaft Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 3:11 am

BillR provided the following link to an interesting GM presentation a few threads back:
http://www.narucmeetings.org/Presentations/Stanek%20PHEV_Nov08%20-%20final90.pdf

Slide 12 grabbed my attention. It provides “Typical Commute” statistics from the US Department of transportation. To summarize, the slide says that:

29% of people drive 2-10 miles/day
22% of people drive 12-20 miles/day
17% of people drive 22-30 miles/day
10% of people drive 32-40 miles/day
7% of people drive 42-50 miles/day
5% of people drive 52-60 miles/day
3% of people drive 62-70 miles/day
8% of people drive greater than 70 miles/day

Putting aside the gaps in the data that are a little strange (what happened to 11, 21, 31, etc?), the slide goes on to suggest that 40 miles was chosen because “78% of customers commute less than 40 miles or less daily”.

Now, I’d like to turn this on its head. If I were driving 2-10 miles/day, why would I buy a Volt? I’m not buying that much gas, so why would I lay down so much money for excessive battery capacity. I submit that this is not the target market. So, let’s take out 29% of the 78%.

A similar argument applies to every range below the 40 mile daily range, though I recognize that the exact point where the Volt becomes economical depends on how gas and battery prices rise and fall respectively over time.

The point I want to make is simple. Discounting the early adopters and those to whom economic considerations are not the driving force for decision making, the initial market for the Volt should be those who get the greatest economic benefit. That will be the 22% who drive greater than 40 miles/day. Conservatively assuming that they do that 5 days a week for 50 weeks a year, we find that they will have 10,000 miles of gas free driving per year. At 50 miles/gallon and a $3 savings/gallon (chosen somewhat arbitrarily and considering electricity costs), that translates into $600/year savings. The savings can be more if, for example, gas prices are higher, if they do a lot of weekend driving, if they use their Volt for vacation traveling with access to charging, and if they can charge at work (or wherever) before returning home in the evening.

So, I think we should forget this 78% business that is often quoted. It’s misleading.

This analysis also says something about BEVs. I understand the hybrid (e.g. Prius) hype. I understand the EREV (e.g. Volt) hype. But I do not understand the BEV hype. The above analysis suggests that those in the low daily mileage range will not pay for batteries they will not use, and those who travel longer distances (for whom economic payback will first be possible) could come up against range issues. The target market for a BEV seems to be a very narrow slice of the population … those who go far enough between charges to justify the battery costs, but not far enough to run into range issues. So, I’m struggling to understand why there would be any significant market for BEVs. Can someone put this in perspective for me?

(Quote)
texas Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 3:35 am

So what? HyperMiler says that the Japanese are way behind the rest of the world in lithium-ion automotive battery technology. Thus, why would we want that old, outdated technology? -sarcasm-

(Quote)
+1 avatar Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 3:47 am

Static- the following from electricdrive.org.

My own ideas are listed at the end. Have enjoyed the Static posts on this blog. avatar

Advantages of battery electric vehicles (BEVs):

-Zero tailpipe emissions (no CO2 or other pollutants)
-Use of cleaner electric energy produced through advanced natural gas and coal gasification technologies
-Energy security by displacing imported petroleum with domestic generated electricity
Overnight battery recharging (Neighborhood electric vehicles are recharged by plugging into a standard 110-volt household outlet.)
-Recycled energy from regenerative braking
-Lower fuel and operational costs
-Possible use in secondary markets for used batteries and reduced waste

Challenges:

-Improving battery technology: lower costs, increased energy density, extended durability
-Possible need for public recharging infrastructure
-Extending mileage range

Personally I believe one of the best features of a BEV would be the possibility of using the battery to power your house in case of an emergency! I honestly believe BEV manufacturers will offer a solar charging unit with financing that will allow the owner to have “free” driving once the car and solar charging unit is paid for. Some drivers are so tired of big oil they will purchase a BEV for that reason only.

(Quote)
Thomas Gilling Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 5:12 am

Cool, I am looking forward to LDV’s Electric Maxus. Let’s just hope our government saves LDV so that can become a reality. It will be the first electric van I think.

(Quote)
StevePA Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 6:24 am

Living in Nashville area these days (about 40 minute drive from Nissan’s plant in Smyrna) one notices an unusually high percentage of Nissan and Infiniti vehicles on the roads, with Altimas at the lower end of the price scale, and G35s/G37s in the luxury sport range being the most common (my last haunt in the Midatlantic area was Beemer country for the lux end).

Lots of retirees and mid-range commuters around these parts. Guessing if Nissan gets the price in the low 20s for a pure BEV, there’ll be bunches of them on the road around here within first year or two of rollout.

BTW – - posting this morning of Fathers’ Day. To all you Dads, Grandads and Great Grandads – have a great one.

(Quote)
Herm Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 6:31 am

#21 Shaft Says:
Now, I’d like to turn this on its head. If I were driving 2-10 miles/day, why would I buy a Volt? I’m not buying that much gas, so why would I lay down so much money for excessive battery capacity.
……………………………………..

There are a lot of people that will never buy any gas again!.. oh happy days are almost here..

Here is a nice small trailer, plop a nice genset on it and you are set for long distance travel.
http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_6970_7262_7262

(Quote)
Herm Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 6:34 am

#23 avatar Says:
Advantages of battery electric vehicles (BEVs):
-Zero tailpipe emissions (no CO2 or other pollutants)
………………………………..

Just a brief correction Avatar, CO2 is not a pollutant.. you would die if there was none in the air you breathe, and plants would not grow either.

(Quote)
CS Guy Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 6:56 am

I wish Nissan would put out pictures of the sedan they are making. This is the EV that this article is talking about. That boxy thing is just the mule. The sedan they will make is said to have a 100 mile range and an 80kW electric motor and a hurkin’ battery pack.
http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/07/nissan-previews-its-electric-car-called-by-some-a-volt-fighter/

Also in the above link it states that Nissan & NEC will spend $12 Billion over the next 3 years to build battery production facilities. Now we’re talking real money.

This is very good news for the electric vehicle. I say hooray to any company actually making a difference in the fight against foreign oil.

- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
=D~~NO PLUG=NO SALE!
Electric cars + Nuclear Power 40% + Geothermal/Hydro 10% + Solar and Wind 50% + (Coal/Gas/Fossil Fuels 0%) = American Energy Independence and Environment Protection

PS, Solar and Wind power with proper energy storage such that there is adequate capacity for when the wind does not blow and it is not sunny (night time and cloudy days).

(Quote)
Randy Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 6:57 am

With at least a dozen companies trying to get their first electric to market you would think just ONE of them would start with a pickup,van or SUV which by the way comprise of 50% of the market,not a shabby showing. No they all want to make a small sedan which is absolutely useless to me and many others.

(Quote)
+1 Randy Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 6:59 am

I would not buy a box like the one pictured if they paid my electric bill for life.

(Quote)
+2 Dan Petit Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 7:10 am

I am buying a Volt for the following reasons in order of importance.

1. I believe it will hold its value, and will be a “savings equity account”
to the greatest extent, since electrics hold their values very well.

2. I need a Volt for my job, which is to teach and inspire technicians
to advance their automotive advanced-systems education.

3. To help make petro-wars (and the greed of it all) go away.
A 10 percent permanent drop in demand will do this.

4. To help get green electric motoring started by offering technical commentaries from day one. (Several times a day sometimes).

5. To help inspire others to accept our responsibilities, as it seems to me, to help return the planet toward a livable and sustainable set of situations, at a morally-required-greater-cost to me/us to fulfill this obligation to future generations. Future generations whom we have “shorted” with our unintentional excesses.

The “comparative” costs of vehicle/gas/etc have no “market-comparable” value whatsoever to these moral imperatives.

Happy Father’s Day.

Dan.

(Quote)
jason M. Hendler Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 7:13 am

I am very, very worried that we will have an extremely high supply of EV’s that consumers won’t buy, whether due to price, performance, utility (size / config) and/or styling. There are going to be some HUGE losers in this race, but the winners will have struck the right balance among all four of those parameters.

(Quote)
+1 drivin98 Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 7:19 am

@28 Herm

Actually, if there is too much CO2 you will die, and some plants might grow faster if all other conditions for their growth (i.e temperature, humidity, nutrients etc) are within an optimal range.

http://www.inspect-ny.com/hazmat/CO2gashaz.htm
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11655-climate-myths-higher-cosub2sub-levels-will-boost-plant-growth-and-food-production.html

(Quote)
Dan Petit Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 7:35 am

I think that there is such an extremely-wide array of “tasking-needs” that all kinds of customers distinctly have, that there will not at all be a situation that the entire productions of BEV’s and EREV’s will not become sold into “happy homes”.

If someone buys a BEV and finds that their situation is not almost completely met by its capabilities, then, there ought to be another immediate customer for it that you could sell it to whose needs are met exactly with it.

When I went over to Henna Chevrolet to pick out an existing Malibu color for my Volt, (a silver-light-green called “Golden Pewter Metallic”, with an interior called “Titantium Ultralux”), I also went into the Warranty and Finance department to ask about Warranties available.

Dean, the rep. over there said that there was the 100,000 mile “Bumper to Bumper” warranty available above the 36,000 mile standard “Bumper to Bumper” warranty at additional cost, which I will certainly get.

If you get the extended 100,000 mile “Bumper to Bumper” warranty (the battery itself has the 150,000 mile warranty), then, there would likely be no chance whatsoever that you could not immediately resell it an get all your remaining balance covered, if not the entire purchase price immediately from others still patiently waiting.

You really all ought to go over to your Chevy store and sit down inside the Malibu to see and begin to get a feel for how incredible the Volt is going to be. It has this very solid and luxurious feeling to it. And, as I diagnose all vehicles with a Genisys scan system, I represent that “solid” means “extremely well built without exception!!” Far better than Euro luxury cars by a light year!!”

Once you do, you are going to KNOW that it is most definitely going to “work for you”, and, you aren’t going to worry about anything. You just can’t do that with “announcements” from other OEM’s.

Dan.

(Quote)
Jim I Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 7:37 am

Note to all car manufacturers:

Stop talking and start building!!!

NPNS

(Quote)
Larry McFall Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 7:38 am

It is amazing what happens when one see’s another doing something that may make money. GM with their VOLTEC may have trickered the motivation for other auto makers to venture into the new Electric Auto Industry. We can only hope that GM can produce enough wisdom to not shoot themselves in the foot on this venture.

I am glad to hear that GM is getting pressure from other auto manufactures especially from Japanees runned companies. Considering that the companies that are putting on the pressure are in the US using American employees, GM should be able to compete. If GM chooses to produce a good idea like VOLTEC and apply it to their vehicles which they price out of the market, then they should be disolved.

That is to say, if GM and labor chooses to run the required cost of their new ideas so much higher than vehicles made by Nissan, then people will buy Nissan versus the GM product.

(Quote)
Van Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 7:38 am

Hi Shaft @ 21,

Thanks for the interesting post. It looks to me like the folks who do not drive very much might opt for the low cost Prius that gets 50 MPG and retains its value. (BTW, the 2010 Prius seems to be selling really well in Japan, over 100,000 units!)

Next, the Plug-in Prius seems perfect for the 27% who drive between 20 and 40 miles. So the Volt will dominate for the 23% who drive more than 40 miles.

Where have I gone wrong?

(Quote)
+2 Arch Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 7:48 am

#14 Omni

The 29 th of this month we will start drilling the four 150ft wells for my
new Geothermal Heat Pump. Wish me luck.

Take Care
Arch

(Quote)
CS Guy Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 7:55 am

I’d like to make note of a comment by Shaft #21, “the exact point where the Volt becomes economical depends on how gas and battery prices rise and fall respectively over time.”

This comment should be expanded to battery electric vehicles as well, so called “pure EVs.”

The idea that a person should base their own personal energy future (and by extension that of the country) based on a rigged game, where the oil companies actively manipulate the supply and therefore the price of oil is foolish at best. Then when they hit a brick wall such as they did this past summer, tanking the entire economy of the free world by their greed, they pull back the price to a ridiculously low level so that NOBODY could compete on a pure dollar level with “cheap” oil.

Remember that today’s cheap oil is tomorrows $4 a gallon or more. The only thing stopping $4 a gallon today is the crap economy, that tipped into the sewer because of the rapid rise in oil prices (sure the market frauds and Maddoff’s had something to do with it too but the tipping point was reached due to the skyrocketing price of gas and diesel).

So go ahead and be a lemming. Led by the nose by the oil companies and their obvious manipulation of the prices. Remember last year they closed down one of the refineries for several months “for scheduled maintenance,” wink wink, and just “had to raise the prices because of the lack of supply.” Laughing all the way to the bank I’ll bet.

Personally, I will never buy a gas powered car again. I don’t care if I have to take my Highlander over to a conversion shop to stretch its life out another 10 or 20 years by turning it into a BEV. I’d love to see that oil poison crap being yanked out of the Highlander and see it reborn as a part of the solution, not part of the problem.

- – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – - – -
=D~~NO PLUG=NO SALE!
Electric cars + Nuclear Power 40% + Geothermal/Hydro 10% + Solar and Wind 50% + (Coal/Gas/Fossil Fuels 0%) = American Energy Independence and Environment Protection

(Quote)
Dan Petit Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 8:05 am

#39 CS Guy

I’m in perfect agreement with you.

You really nailed it as exactly-perfectly as it could be nailed.

Keep that post for your “perfected historical viewpoint” file.

Too many have some unrelated need to believe skewed representations of history, to their ultimate financial disadvantage if they stay closed-minded or uninformed.

Dan.

(Quote)
+1 NZDavid Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 8:07 am

Arch says : The 29 th of this month we will start drilling the four 150ft wells for my new Geothermal Heat Pump. Wish me luck.

Take Care
Arch

A big project, all the best my friend.

(Quote)
an_outsider Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 8:29 am

#23 avatar; +1
#21 Shaft: I’m currently in the 3% of people drive 62-70 miles/day.
Pure BEV especially during winter, may not be a viable option (for myself) unless having some capability to plug in at work.

One of my main concern about all these future lithium batteries mfg announcement is the cost of the raw lithium material supply & worldwide availability VS this new car Li batteries market demand…
http://www.trugroup.com/Lithium-Market-Conference.html

Maybe higher density (Kw/Kg) Li batteries overcome this aspect over the time
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/05/stair-20090518.html

(Quote)
hayley Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 8:36 am

Nissan, US loans?? go to hell Nissan

(Quote)
statik Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 8:47 am

#32 jason m hendler said:

I am very, very worried that we will have an extremely high supply of EV’s that consumers won’t buy, whether due to price, performance, utility (size / config) and/or styling. There are going to be some HUGE losers in this race, but the winners will have struck the right balance among all four of those parameters.
===============================

This is a good point Jason. I have to tell you there is a little man in the back of my head that is saying, “…is there enough of you out there?” (and he is getting louder all the time)

The buyers of EVs, at least for the first 4-5 years, are the well-heeled, conscientious…not the general public, and I question our numbers.

Personally, I really don’t even think the product offered itself will determine its initial success or not, but merely its timing. Whoever is first out of the gate is going to do really well, and likely whoever is second…but what then? I think there is a wave of people, built up over the last decade, that are desperate to buy.

I’m afraid everyone is counting the same people inside their calculations of selling EVs. For example, I am either subscribed to get info direct from, or registered on a official site and/or forum for EVs with Mitsu, Tesla, Toyota, Ford, Nissan, Zenn, Chrysler, and with GM (loosely)here. Now, I’m not buying 8 EVs, lol…I’m buying just one, and it is going to be whoever is first. I’ll be ‘picky’ the second time around.

Further to that, I think we are seeing the limits of that ‘pool’ of EV buyers here, on Lyle’s wait list. It rocketed to 40,000 by August 2008, but only 8,500 since (and 3,500 in the last 6 months)…and that is despite Lyle’s site having a ‘whale’ more traffic-AND- the Volt actually being introduced and advertised by GM since september. (For the list here, we are just talking about writing your name down…not sending GM a check for $5,000).

Lithium prices aren’t going to crater down in the first several years of EV’s production, there is going to be a lot of demand put on a commodity that has little infrastructure….and the price has a long way to drop to get into the public consciousness, like to $25,000 max. (All the top 10 sellers start at $20,000). And will people demand more range as the price drops even after that…making it a zero sum game for pricing?

(Quote)
+1 CDAVIS Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 8:53 am

_____________________________________________________
#12 PLJ Said:
“While I applaud Nissan’s commitment to this alternative method of power and I support every effort to get us off our dependence on foreign oil, I think it is misguided to think that pure BEV’s are the wave of the future.

_________

Actually pure BEV’s are the wave of the future. EREVS are a bridge solution for those requiring extended range. Battery technology will quickly advance in the next 10 years allowing GM to drop the ICE extender from the Voltec Platform.

It is just a matter of time before higher battery capacity and quick charge makes ICE range extenders obsolete. The battery cost issue will take care of itself vis-à-vis competition.
_____________________________________________________

(Quote)
pdt Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 9:11 am

#21 Shaft

I posted a model for economic breakeven fuel price vs battery size and cost and commute distance on the forum. Because the battery is expensive, you want to use it as much as possible, so matching the size of the battery to daily driving in an EREV design is important unless the battery is unrealistically cheap or you care less about money and more about environment and/or energy security.

Arch,

Please keep us posted on your GSHP project. What type of system are you installing? I have been trying to get a quote for a system, but the local permitting details have not been worked out yet and the number of installers in this region is very small. It’s likely that the city will not allow penetration of the water table so that my choices will be very limited, but we’ll see sometime in this month or next…

(Quote)
-1 statik Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 9:16 am

#44 statik (me)
#37 van

As a extension of ‘who is going to do well, and who is not’ if there are so many manufacturers hitting the market in mass in 2012, and the eventual winner.

Everyone knows my first choice is a i-MiEV (or other full BEV), but I’m perfectly happy to buy a Volt as well if they are first out of the gate…but I think the Plug-In Prius (which is about 8th on my ‘want’ list of potentials coming to market), despite its flaws and limitations, with its 8-10 mile range (?), is going to win this war if it is being calculated by sales.

It is just math here, they can (if they wanted to) sell it for $25,000 MSRP (pre-rebate) and make money on every copy. On top of that, they can virtually make as many (or as little) as the market demands with relatively little effort, as it is just a option on the Prius, which has been reverse engineered to take this conversion easily.

We have about a dozen players, developing/bringing to market full or partial EVs, with huge packs with prices around 40K+. There is a danger that there is so many, none will succeed/be viable. How many potential customers are out there at this price point? I really don’t know.

The Plug-In Prius, is right in the sweet spot in the mid 20s. (or at least can be, if they want)

The base Prius starts at $21,000, which already costs in a 1.3 kWh NiMH pack…we are just talking about swapping that out for a 5kW lithium pack. By all accounts the total pack for the Volt is around $8,000…probably $5,000-$6,000 for the raw components, so Toyota is looking at maybe a additonal $1,500 the battery, another $2,000 for modifications (…like maybe a larger electric motor), and after that, they STILL qualify for a $3,000 rebate.

You can argue there isn’t value in 10 miles of electric range, or that the setup has limitations and it will not perform well, or that it is not a pure ‘EV’ but rather just a conversion…but it would be difficult to argue that it won’t sell.

(Quote)
Tagamet Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 9:31 am

I’m hoping that the pool of people world-wide will be more than enough to soak up (demand) pretty much of all available EV/EREV vehicles for at least a few years. By then quality/price will determine the “winning” companies. Especially, given the huge gas taxes in Europe and the already developing infrastructure efforts there.
JMO,
Be well,
Tagamet
PS Happy Father’s Day

LJGTVWOTR!!***************NPNS!

(Quote)
JEC Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 10:02 am

Sure would be nice if we could get some data on the testing of batteries for EV’s.

The Volt has a baked in 2nd battery cost for the Volt, and I believe that this is not w/o reason. Has anyone ever had a battery last 10+ years, for anything (lead acid, NIMH, Li, LifePo, etc..).

All this supposedly great news of BEV’s/EREV’s, just makes me nervous that we are going to end up using more of the earths natural resources and damage, beyond what we are doing today. While oil can be labeled bad, in many ways, it is less damaging to our environment then, say strip mining for coal, and now Lithium, or whatever becomes the element of choice for future EV’s. (remember, if EV’s really become dominant, the amount of natural resources to satisfy our global infrastructure is beyone huge!)

I understand the issue the oil makes us dependent upon other countries and the strangle hold they put us in.

We just need to be sure to weigh all the pro/con’s of moving to an electric economy. I believe it can be the right thing, but moving ahead w/o weighing and evaluating all the issues, could lead to problems, currently unforeseen.

Happy Fathers Day!

(Quote)
Arch Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 10:11 am

#46 PDT

Water Furnace 4 ton unit.

Take Care
Arch

(Quote)
kent beuchert Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 10:13 am

Well,, at least you can’t fault Nissan for not making sure their basesa re covered. They have committed to building their electrics in several battery-technology flavors, one for Better Place, a once-quasi-sensible (although very old) idea that is now doomed by the certain advent of fast recharging batteries in the next two years.
New electric cars are now beinf introduced at th rate of 1 per week, the mystery “V” car and ugky Coda being two recent examples. There is a certain sameness to all these vehicles, but I am proud to say that I predicted such a phenomena last year. Not since the Tucker has anyone tried to breakinto the automaking business and the reasons are obvious – there is a very high cost of entry and the competition has always been fierce. And all of the engine and tranny manufacturing (except some insignificant manual trannies) is done in-house. So anyone wishing to start their own auto company
must literally develop and manufacture a very large proportion of the parts he needs ( GM spends 1$billion just redesigning an automatic). But with the advent of electrcally powered vehicles,
everything changes. Now the motors are built by thrid parties – none of the major automakers is building them. Same for the simple two speed trannies (which are mostly optional). Same for the battery packs. No need for the enormous electronic engine management systems required by modern fuel injection. Or exhaust systems or EGR systems, etc, etc,
With this simplified design structure and the availability of off-the-shelf motors and batteries, etc., the cost of entry into the auto business went way, way down. With the advent of an affordable fast recharging battery, certain within two years by at least one company, the era of gas powered private vehicles is over, and the major automakers suddenly lose an enormous amount of net worth :
their investment in everything having to do with the gasoline powertrain.

(Quote)
nataraj Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 10:16 am

#9 iRoc

The Nissan won’t compete with the Volt … the aerodynamics and looks aren’t in the same league … if only GM would GET RID OF THAT FAKE GRILL on the Volt!!!

——————

This Nissan Cube is just the mule. Their real EV sedan is under wraps. They have said their car will also be unique i.e. designed specifically for EV.

More importantly they have said the cars will have no premium over gas cars …. we will have to wait and see.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/05/12/nissan-to-build-evs-at-its-oppama-assembly-plant-in-japan/
—–
The powertrain and batteries are currently being tested in prototypes based on the first generation Cube, but the car that will be produced next year is an all-new ground-up design.
—–

(Quote)
Shawn Marshall Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 10:24 am

Isn’t it ironic – Nissan taking US taxpayer money to build plants in the US?

What’s wrong with US?

For all the BEV disbelievers, please be assured that there is a huge market of retired folk (like me) who could really use an economical 100 mile BEV. If the cost advantage is significant, who’s to say it may not be larger than the Volt market. Nissan doesn’t look stupid to me and it appears they are going to put their money where their mouth is.

(Quote)
Shawn Marshall Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 10:28 am

Kent #51 – turn on your spell checker – Are you trying to out-mis-do Statik

You’re on a roll with your comments. Good point on the EVs opening up the market to more possibilities.

(Quote)
+1 Van Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 10:29 am

Hi Statik @47, as my English relatives might say, “Good Show.”

I think the Plug in Prius will have an actual AER near 15 miles at 60 MPH. The sweet spot so to speak. Time will tell, 7 months to go.

(Quote)
+1 Chops Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 10:51 am

#28 CS guy says:

http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/07/nissan-previews-its-electric-car-called-by-some-a-volt-fighter/
Also in the above link it states that Nissan & NEC will spend $12 Billion over the next 3 years to build battery production facilities. Now we’re talking real money.

This link is wrong. The $12 Billion is actually 12 Billion Yen which at the time worked out to $114.6 Million. Still significant, but not $12 Billion !

Here is the source for the correct figure:
http://www.nec.com.au/01f182f5aec9497aa7a7fa62735caf46.htm

(Quote)
statik Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 11:19 am

This is off topic, but LL news put up a really, really well done piece on the Volt, and their own test drive (…although it obviously was in the can for a couple weeks, as they still have the ‘quasi-truth’ on why the extended range wasn’t working)

It has lots of good/unique shots (in HD) and W.eber talking up a storm (hosted on youtube), it is worth a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGriF1ReHZA

(Repost from moderation. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t meant to be…but something random triggered it. If that is not the case, please feel free to delete Lyle)

(Quote)
-1 statik Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 11:28 am

Don’t bother Kent, you just keep posting ‘as is’…. I’ll just turn up my game a bit.

/real men don’t use spellcheckers

Sidenote: w00t on the new comment reply ‘hotness’

(Quote)
jason M. Hendler Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 11:29 am

Statik,

Both your post are excellent for fleshing out my concerns and explaining why the Prius will continue to make money.

I believe the Volt will beat the Prius in performance, so that wealthier buyers will choose the Volt over the Prius in significant numbers.

(Quote)
statik Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 11:34 am

Indeed. For us earlier adopters, who have cash to burn…we will buy the ‘hotness,’ or what is the better performer (of what is available)

…but the wider market will buy the ‘make-senseness’ car, the car that is in their budget that offers the best value

(Quote)
DonC Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 11:50 am

The problem is that you haven’t extended your analysis far enough. If you want to do it on a dollars and sense basis, you are absolutely correct that if you don’t drive many miles then the Prius is better than a Volt. Of course the same analysis will demonstrate that a Civic is better than a Prius. So why buy a Prius?

Basically people buy cars for reasons other than dollars and sense. The Volt will be way cooler than a Prius. It’s driving experience will be way better. No comparison.

But yes, on a financial basis, for shorter commutes a car with a smaller battery beats a car with a larger battery, and for longer commutes a car with a larger battery beats a car with a smaller battery.

(Quote)
+1 nataraj Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 12:14 pm

A well endowed Prius now costs about $27K (according a friend looking to by a car) – Nissan says their car will have no premium over gas cars. I think for $30K I’ll buy a Nissan pure EV rather than a plugin Prius with a small ev range.

http://www.zoomilife.com/2009/05/10/nissan-promises-a-real-car-as-their-upcoming-ev-could-it-be-a-be-bop/
—-
While not getting specific or even revealing a name for the eventual EV, Nissan has said that it will be a sedan, will seat five, and will be priced on par with mid-sized sedans on the market now.
—–

Infact I’ve a decent shot at buying the Nissan EV next year – they will launch in Seattle first.

http://www.zoomilife.com/2009/05/02/nissan-seattle/

(Quote)
+1 nataraj Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 12:18 pm

Hmmm …. why is Canada giving money to Chrysler and GM ?

(Quote)
LauraM Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 12:39 pm

So, now not only do we give free access to our market, we’re paying people to come here. GM and Ford (and even Chrysler) are all working on EVs. And then there’s American up and comers Tesla, Fisker Karma, etc. And Toyota, Honda, Mitsubishi, etc., are more than happy to build and sell their cars here for free. Or at least just the tax credits they can get from the individual states. So why are we are we doing this?

I am happy that yet another company is building EVs. The more who say it, the more likely I am to actually get one if GM declares Ch. 7. Although I’d much much prefer an EREV. But I am worried about market saturation in the short term, and I don’t understand why the US government has to pay them to do this. Although it is a lot cheaper than the 10 billion plus we’re giving Chrysler…

By the way, I’m sorry I’ve been MIA for the past week. Work has been crazy….

(Quote)
+2 coffeetime Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 12:42 pm

There exists a subset of consumers who like (live?) to purchase things that make a large departure from the status quo, present company included. I bought the original bright-orange Hanson ski boots, which departed from the norm because there were no buckles in the front, only two in the back (and your foot entered from the back as well). I bought an Advent projection TV back in the days when they were mostly something you’d find in bars and lounges. I bought an expensive Sony CD player when they first came out, and only one speciality store within 50 miles of us carried CDs. I bought the original Macintosh computer within a week of it first going on sale, because it represented a radical departure from other personal computers. I bought a Chrysler PT Cruiser when it first came out, not just because of the radical “retro” styling but the versatility of the seating and cargo arrangements. I bought the iPhone on the first day it came out, because it was a huge departure from the cell phone status quo.

People will buy a Chevy Volt for no other purpose than to give “silent” rides to all of their friends and family, and to field “How do you like it?” questions from the public. I’m sure that a lot of Prius owners fell into that category, but now that you see a Prius everywhere you look, the novelty has worn off. Personally, I wonder how many Prius pioneers will become new Volt owners?

(Quote)
jason M. Hendler Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 12:56 pm

On the cheaper end, people who want small car utility will buy the Prius, but pure commuters will buy the Aptera.

People who can afford more will get the Volt – good performance and mileage.

Wealthy will buy Fisker or Tesla, depending on desired utility.

I do agree that whoever is first will have their pick of the tens of thousands who will buy whatever is available.

(Quote)
+2 Larry Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 1:03 pm

That’s the best Volt video I’ve seen.
On the issue of “cost payback” I’ve yet to see any justification of the purchase of Volvo, BMW, Mercedes, or other high-end cars. The Volt can be justified purely on performance, energy independence, and environment.

(Quote)
Roger Ramjet Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 1:24 pm

I for one am very happy with Nissan’s decision to start cranking out some serious volume of EVs. Unlike GM who spends billions of taxpayers dollars and will start slowly trickling out a 40-mile-range hybrid EV. I just hope that Nissan EV will have more than 40 mile range. If it gets around 100 miles than i am in like flint.

(Quote)
-1 Richard Rothschild III Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 1:34 pm

I love that square look, very appropriate, it looks like a giant battery on wheels. Way kewl. Now if only GM could make some innovative EV that they general public will want and can afford. I applaud Nissan for taking the lead in volume of EVs to be produced. A hundred thousand would certainly put the expensive Volt to shame.

(Quote)
William Windhouse Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 1:39 pm

The U.S. Government should jump all over this. Another foreign company willing to employ hundreds (perhaps thousands) of Americans to make a real EV. They better get their fare share of those stimulus dollar$ or heads will roll. And for a bonus, this will not be a government run operation, unlike GM who takes all their order from Uncle.

(Quote)
+1 Herm Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 1:56 pm

#49 JEC Says:
The Volt has a baked in 2nd battery cost for the Volt, and I believe that this is not w/o reason. Has anyone ever had a battery last 10+ years, for anything (lead acid, NIMH, Li, LifePo, etc..).

………………………………….

How about 15 years for satellite batteries?.. here is a link:

http://www.electrochem.org/meetings/scheduler/abstracts/214/1287.pdf

Lead acid batteries used in power backups can last 30 years if maintained properly.

Edison invented a nickel-iron battery for use in electric cars around 1901.. those were extremely long lived, some are still working after 50 years of use.

http://www.beutilityfree.com/content/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106:Ni-FeFAQ&catid=42:Nickel-Iron%20Batteries

(Quote)
k-dawgski Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 1:57 pm

There will be lots of winners/losers. We all drive different vehicles today, I don’t think this is going to change. As a consumer, we will be the ultimate winners, because we will have choices.

(Quote)
-1 Zack Lee Wright Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 1:59 pm

Gotta love Nissan for this move. Build it here and they will come. I also read somewhere that Nissan is going to saturate Nashville with EV charging stations so range anxiety will not be a factor (if it ever was).
There are many more wonderful car makers here in the South. I would enjoy seeing more of them committing to volume production of EVs. Who knows, the deep south may become the center of the EV revolution in this country. Anyone seen Detroit lately, it is a total disaster, a wasteland of fallen American auto industry. You will never see our companies leave their communities in shambles like GM, Chrysler and Ford have done to Michigan. A total disgrace, and hopefully the people (as they are forced to migrate elsewhere) will never forget how they were treated by the so-called “American” companies.

(Quote)
-1 JackFlash Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 2:10 pm

Because the automotive plants they have there would evaporate and leave them with stupidity as their only export? Just kidding…maybe

(Quote)
Hal Lusinashin Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 2:12 pm

With 50 to 100K production volume they might actually make some money. I really don’t see how GM can every repay those tens of billions of dollars by selling voltec cars. GM would have to sell tens of millions of them and that will never happen because they don’t have the capacity or the customer base and more advanced solutions are coming from the competition. Historians will be writing many books for our children to explain how GM was able to rape the taxpayer for billions, have no viable business plan to repay loans, outrageous executive pensions and salary continues and all this was allowed to happen because a bunch of liberal pansies in D.C. where afraid to put some union workers out of overpaid/underworked hourly jobs. Only in America can this happen, the Europeans (namely Germany) have stopped this socialist bailout philosophy in its tracks (probably the smartest thing they have done in my lifetime). Anyway enuff of this rant, GO NISSAN GO.

(Quote)
David L Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 4:20 pm

I wonder if by 2012, the “new” 2012 will be 2014?

(Quote)
+1 Len Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 5:16 pm

What do I prefer, a Japanise company with factories in the US employing US citizens or a US company that has factories in China and India employing Chinese and Indians? Let me think ….

As these workers in the US pay US taxes and the Chinese and Indians don’t, which do you think the US govt prefers?

We are going to need all the employers we can get in the US to get out of this mess. I’m really not too picky where they are from as long as their factories are here.

I think there is room for all sorts of EVs. Even if only 10% of the population is in the sweet spot for the Volt, it will be many years before the market is saturated.

Happy Father’s day

(Quote)
+1 ThombDbhomb Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 6:42 pm

CO2 can be a pollutant; If the atmosphere were all CO2, you’d die.

(Quote)
ThombDbhomb Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 6:50 pm

…and a small fuel efficient ICE car costs less than a hybrid car. The “hybrid” premium” will buy a lot of gas. For example, I can get a Honda Fit (28/35 mpg) starting at $14,750, while the Honda Insight starts at $19.8k (40/43 mpg). The $5k difference can buy a lot of gas. If I had short commutes, the Fit makes better financial sense.

(Quote)
+1 jbfalaska Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 6:51 pm

I’d have to add, the source of the factories is important to me too. I enlarge the debate further to say the total life cycle cost to own is all part of the equation. They typical car, such as any one of the 4 I own, had a sticker price of $30 – $40K. I put on 24000 miles per year here in the Denver area. The cost for me to gas up, plastic parts, made from oil typically, tires made from oil heavily, foam seating made from oil typically, carpeting made from oil typically, and on and on puts the cost of even an American assembled car at roughly 50% at most. The rest goes to the oil industry in gas and oil changes, tires, etc.,

My personal hope is simply to get us out of that Middle-East foreign oil cesspool we’re stuck in. I’m buying an American made Chevy Volt. Let’s hope electrics catch on.

(Quote)
DonC Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 7:21 pm

I’d have to agree with nataraj that your numbers for the Prius are wildly optimistic. The $21K Prius you’re referencing isn’t being sold to the public, only fleets. A real Prius costs in the upper 20s and there is a debate whether, even at that price, Toyota makes any profit on the sale. Toyota contends there is a “small profit” in the sale but, even assuming this, it’s very difficult to see how Toyota could sell a plug in version for anything near the mid-twenties. Low 30s seem more reasonable.

Add the tax incentive to the mix and the plug in Prius doesn’t seem to be competitive.

(Quote)
DonC Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 7:23 pm

Yeah, batteries suck. No question. Nobody is happy with their battery. Like your i-Phone? Like the i-Phone battery? Big difference.

However, keep in mind that by using only half the battery GM has essentially put two batteries in the Volt already. My guess is that the battery will beat expectations. But there will doubtless be other issues.

(Quote)
koz Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 8:12 pm

…or Kia Rio for $12,145 and soon a Tata or Chinese brand for under $10K. As people have said sooo many times on this site, people buy cars for many reasons and price is only one them. There will be lots of difrerent electrics (HEV, PHEV, BEV, EREV) bought for lots of different reasons. The car maker (or battery service provider, i.e. Project Better Place) that can meet the most buying cues will do the best. The easiest way to meet the most needs with the same vehicle model is to vary the battery capacity. Consider a 20, 40, and 60 mile AER Volt and how better the total cost of ownership could be matched with the consumers needs.

(Quote)
NZDavid Says:
June 22nd, 2009 at 12:59 am

Statik, Great Video to go with the new ‘hotness’ reply functions.

When I get MY EV I expect to save about 2,500 per year on servicing and, at least, another 2,500 per year on fuel, so over 10 years that’s $50,000 saved. The economics works for me.

(Quote)
CS Guy Says:
June 22nd, 2009 at 7:17 am

$2500 per year on servicing. If that’s what you’re paying now you are seriously being ripped off! (sorry to hear it)

I spend about $650 yearly on servicing our Highlander – but I still want a Volt or other BEV to be able to drive by the service center and wave bye-bye.

(Quote)
+1 Ray Says:
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:03 am

Careful there buddy..

alot the oil you currently need comes from CANADA..

(Quote)
Johnny Says:
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:30 am

IIRC, the concept shown is a just a mule to test the hardware. The production version will be a small passenger car.

(Quote)
tom Says:
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:33 am

I’d be a person who would benefit from the BEV in the situation you question. But it depends on if it is ok to charge and partially charge.

To me it is no different than my cell phone which I regularly plug in to keep it charged because I use it so much.

If I make several trips a day but can charge in between with a 220 line, I’d be fine.

Eventually, the main 2 issues with BEV adoption will be if it is okay to charge your battery multiple times or partially (or do we need to fully charge and fully deplete it to maximize life) and if there will be places to charge your care besides home relatively quickly.

Typical weekday:
Drive 15 miles to work (can I charge it at the office?).
Drive home 15 miles (can I partially charge it)
Drive 15 miles round trip to kids baseball game.

Typical weekend:
Drive 40 miles to my Mom’s house (can I charge it there)
Drive 40 miles back home.

(Quote)
kent beuchert Says:
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:40 am

Nissan is apparently trying to cover all possible technology bases, meaning they haven’t a clue as to which will emerge triumphant. You all remember that Ghosn and Nissan originally were like Honda – bound and determined to avoid electric propulsion. Then apparently Agassi (of Better Place) talked Ghosn into producing a car with swappable batteries for his system, leading Ghosn appparently to believe that this would allow him, as well as Agassi, to establish a monopoly and both make a fortune. But Ghosn obviously understands that Better Place is looking more and more like a really bad bet – a potential white elephant that looks very shaky in the presence of recent battery development advances by MIT that would make Better Place in one stroke a useless mass of very expensive swapping machines and buildings that couldn’t compete with existing gas stations, which can easily swap their pumps for charging ports, at a gradual rate as EVs appear on the roads. This
gradual changeover is far and away the most efficient and doesn’t require tens of billions in investor money. We all know that every li ion battery maker on the planet is rushing to find another chemical that can work as well as, or better, than that patented by MIT and licensed to A123 Systems, and thus go around MIT’s patent.MIT
as much as admitted that many of these chemicals may exist – they
by no means did an exhaustive study of all likely candidates. So
every battery company’s future is iffy and subject to destruction by advances that they cannot get ahold of. This doesn’t even take account of the possiblility that EEStor’s devices may work (and a recent statement by an ex board member said that he had seen a demo of a wroking EEStor EESU leads many to think that EEStor will succeed, and soon. By September). Auto companies,however, should be able to get the best batteries from someone (if EEStor works, the devices will be sold to anyone and everyone who wants one. The only auto connection they have is with ZENN Motors, and ZENN has ratcheted up plans for retrofits and merchandising powertrains to automakers, not building cars)

(Quote)
+1 MuddyRoverRob Says:
June 22nd, 2009 at 9:50 am

And Water and Hydro Power and wheat (Being the United States largest trading partner and all…)

An awful lot of cars are made in Ontario, including the Camaro.

(Quote)
+1 N Riley Says:
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:13 am

Well, if it looks like the picture above, Nissan can forget selling very many.

(Quote)
MuddyRoverRob Says:
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:16 am

There is a fair amount of sense in bringing a single model to market first and then diversifying the line. If they tried to build a sedan and a pickup and a van all at once the engineers could not concentrate on the main goal which is to put out a real working polished product.

Why a small sedan? I think it’s as simple as saying we are building a ‘green’ car and keeping it small to make it ‘extra green’. Once Voltec is proven to the public then acceptance of other models is more likely.

I absolutely agree that a van and then a small pickup (crossover, SUV, etc) should be in the ‘pipeline’ after the Volt hits the road.

I do think the dual mode will be the way to go for a ‘work’ vehicle for the next few years. I’m thinking about trailer towing and heavier loads where a pure electric would at this point overwhelm existing battery technology and it would end up running the genset all the time anyway.

(Although this should to be tested to see whether an optimised genset would be more economical to run than the dual mode. I’d like to be wrong on that point!)

(Quote)
JackFlash Says:
June 22nd, 2009 at 10:47 am

“An awful lot of cars are made in Ontario, including the Camaro.”

Like I said I was kidding, but thanks for making my point, what new model of Canadian car can we expect this year?

(Quote)
51st State Says:
June 22nd, 2009 at 2:45 pm

A lot of awful cars are made in Canada, except the Camaro.

(Quote)
Jason Perry Says:
June 23rd, 2009 at 10:24 am

Why do posters keep commenting on the clearly stated “mule” Nissan electric car. You can be sure the final car will look great as Nissan can produce a very cool looking car, look at the 2009 370Z

(Quote)
certification Says:
July 1st, 2009 at 5:54 am

Thank you for sharing.braindumps

(Quote)

Recent GM-Volt Forum Posts

Chrysler dismantles electric car plans under Fiat November 7, 2009
DETROIT (Reuters) - Chrysler has disbanded a team of engineers dedicated to rushing a range of electric vehicles to showrooms and dropped ambitious... […]
Texas
First Solar buys 117 MW project from solar startup Ausra November 7, 2009
First Solar buys 117 MW project from solar startup Ausra: _Link_ (http://www.reuters.com/article/mergersNews/idUSN046821420091105) Given that water... […]
Jason M. Hendler
True believers swamp Fisker opening November 7, 2009
True believers swamp Fisker opening _Link_ (http://www.autonews.com/article/20091106/ANA05/911069996/1137) Can you imagine what the roll-out of the... […]
Jason M. Hendler
Zero Motorcycles Announces Consumer Financing November 7, 2009
Zero Motorcycles Announces Consumer Financing: _Link_ (http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1037942_zero-motorcycles-announces-consumer-financing) […]
Jason M. Hendler
LeRoy1974 November 6, 2009
Does the Volt have a trunk in which we can put groceries or a couple of golf bags? All the photos and drawings of the Volt look like it was in an... […]
LeRoy1974
Embrace technology to turn nuclear energy into environmental solution November 6, 2009
From the Seattle Times: "STEWART Brand, author of "The Whole Earth Catalog," visited Seattle last week, promoting his latest environmental manifesto... […]
misslexi
Lutz to Head Opel November 6, 2009
Der Spiegel reports that Lutz is going to head up Opel: Spiegel Online(link)... […]
dagwood55

Nissan Plans to Build EVs and Batteries in USA

97 Responses to “Nissan Plans to Build EVs and Batteries in USA”

Leave a Reply

Recent Posts

Recent GM-Volt Forum Posts