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Koenigsegg to Buy Saab and Build Electric Supercar

June 16th, 2009 | Posted in: Brand, Competitors

Months prior to GM going into bankruptcy proceedings, the company had stated its intentions to sell Saturn, Saab, and Hummer while ending the Pontiac brand.

Since June 1st the sell off has been happening fast and furious. First we heard that Tengzhong of China will buy Hummer, then it was reported that Penske Automotive plans to buy Saturn, and now it has been announced Swedish supercarmaker Koenigsegg plans to buy Saab.

The Saab deal will be funded in part by $600 million in capital from the European Investment Bank and guaranteed by the Swedish government. GM has stated in a press release that it will “continue to provide Saab with architecture and powertrain technology during a defined time period.”

Koenigsegg is known for producing low-volume million-dollar ridiculously fast supercars, in fact their staff of 45 only built 18 cars last year. A new report indicates that Koenigsegg is actually planning to use the Saab production facilities to build among other things electric cars. In particular, the company had previously unveiled a 512 hp solar-electric 4 seat supercar concept called the Quant at the Geneva Auto Show earlier this year.

This vehicle uses two large rear-wheel electric motors and incorporates solar panels into the hood and roof which won’t generate significant energy except to help run on-board peripherals. The same company making the panels however, NLV of Sweden, has also developed a new type of battery for the car called “Flow Accumulator Energy Storage.” This device has an energy density of over 170 wh/kg, can store up to 300 miles of range and be recharged in 15 to 20 minutes.

Koenigsegg stated at the time of the reveal that it hoped to be able to produce the car in a few years.

It is now being reported that the company’s new access to Saab hardware, resources, facilities, and technology will enable it to actually bring this car into production.

This news is on the heels of Tengzhong China indicating it intends to make fuel efficienct new green Hummer models and Penske’s plans to sell electric Saturns.

So it seems the discarded parts of the old GM may very well blossom into advanced technology electric car companies of their own rights.

Who would have thought?

Source (Edmunds) and (Autoblog)

Posted by: Lyle

114 Responses to “Koenigsegg to Buy Saab and Build Electric Supercar”

Campy Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 8:55 pm

1st?

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Campy Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

Talk about a ridiculously sweet waste of money.

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Vincent Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

Yes!
Muscle Cars Live!
I will smoke the tires of an electric super car just to piss off a Tree Huger. This is sweet…..maybe pour a little oil and bleach on the tires for extra beauty!

The proverbial switch is in front of you…don’t fall asleep….

Wake up FRITZ….an ELECTRIC VETTE BETTER GET READY!

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jdsv Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 9:07 pm

Didn’t notice there were no comments.. I would have settled in and read up sooner!

Sounds like fun – for the driver and the resurrected facility! Unfortunately, I am a full two or three Jacksons away from the (total guess alert) $750,000 need to buy this car. Also, I live in one of those rare parts of the country that contains curbs, gutters, and occasional pea-sized rocks on the road, which this vehicle would not be able to traverse. (Maybe I should buy a Traverse?)

I shall wait for the Volt (probably gen 2, as I shan’t buy such a toy on a load of credit). Then I will have fun too.

Way to go KOENIGSEGG!
NPNS!!!! =D~~~

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DaV8or Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 9:11 pm

Good riddance. The Saab purchase was probably the dumbest deal GM ever did next to the Fiat deal a few years ago. Thank God the era of running around buying up companies is over and hopefully we can get back to just building cars.

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jdsv Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 9:12 pm

Hmm.. awaiting moderation.. neat! End result a double post? Hopefully it gets deleted, but whatever, flame away! If I had 2 million dollars and 60 miles of gran prix driveway, I’d be all over that car!

This fella won’t be caught standing in the way of eighty of these a year helping to make BEVs look (and be) sexy!

One question : will these be cheaper or more expensive to build than their ultra-performance liquid fuel counterparts?

NPNS!! =D~~~

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CorvetteGuy Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 9:22 pm

Ya’know… When it was announced that GM would be split into 2 parts > The “Good GM Brands” and the “Bad GM Brands”, and the bad would be sold off in bankruptcy, I was thinking “Yay! Chevy stays as one of the good brands!” – - – But I am amazed how quickly the so-called ‘bad brands’ got snatched up by reputable companies and it looks like they get the last laugh…!? WHASUPWITHAT?

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jdsv Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 9:34 pm

I hear ya. Penske will definitely come out of all this with a big W if they can keep even a respectable fraction of Saturn’s loyal customer base. Hummer ‘military secrets’ (put big wheels on ‘er) to China, meh. Saab to Sweden? NEAT! With all sincerity, I hope we hear from them again.

But a progressive American car company staying stateside in the hands of a tradition-rich automotive company? Lovable fleet cars will be child’s play and the first step of hundreds. They’re standing just inches above rock bottom with the sky as their limit.

NPNS!! =D~~

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nataraj Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 9:37 pm

HDNet has a documentary on a Japanese SuperCar called Eliica. This is a must see for any BEV / Car enthusiast.

http://hd.net/schedule_sevenday.html

—-
Eliica: Japan’s Electric Supercar – The world’s first electric car able to exceed 400 km/hr could soon be a reality. Professor Hiroshi Shimizu and his team from Keio University in Tokyo have developed the Eliica of 800 hp, which can travel 300 km on one charge, produces no emissions and uses half the energy compared with a gasoline-powered automobile. Professor Shimizu utilizes Japan’s most advanced motor and lithium battery technologies for an electric car so powerful it rivals the giant gasoline world. Will these technologies see the 400 km/hr speed barrier broken?
—-

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/12/japanese_pm_loo.php

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solo Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 9:41 pm

Back in the 30’s and even after WWII, there were many, many, small(er) car companies that, while not as big as the big 3, still ran production lines and produced thousands of cars a year. Packard, Studebaker, Nash were common names in our fathers day. Our grandfathers had even more choices. All the names are gone now but it looks like what goes around comes around. We are likely to have a larger number of smaller car companies in the near future.

Who knows, in 30 years companies like Toyota, Honda, and Nissan will be considered the big monster companies that lack innovation, living in the past, only purchased by working class stiffs, etc. The young hip educated folks may well be buying products from a smaller, lighter, Ford, GM, Chrysler-(insert the name of Chrysler’s partner company in 30 years here), and the other companies spawned by the bankruptcies.

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Timaaayyy!!! Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 9:43 pm

“Flow Accumulator Energy Storage” and “Pyradian cells”. Is it a Transformer, too?

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/03/quantum-mechani/

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Arch Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

I am glad to see all of this. Nobody likes change. It upsets people. Well it is about to happen. There are enough players in the game to make it happen now. Well babies like change. Hang on folks the new game is in town. I will start installing my Geothermal Heat Pump
system June 29. That should shake things up too. LOL

Take Care
Arch

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DonC Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:06 pm

Green Hummer models? Seems like a marketing oxymoron.

Let’s all be glad that GM found a buyer for Saab.

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jeffhre Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:15 pm

#9 Arch

I am glad to see all of this. Nobody likes change. It upsets people. Well it is about to happen. There are enough players in the game to make it happen now. Well babies like change. Hang on folks the new game is in town. I will start installing my Geothermal Heat Pump
system June 29. That should shake things up too. LOL
_________________
Congrats on your heat pump, great choice!

Babies really don’t like change much either – but it beats being ignored! Which is where electric vehicle fans have been until now.

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Zach Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

Sweet. I wanna hear more about the batteries that they’re using. Those charge times are ridiculously quick!!

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statik Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:34 pm

(Going to give it one more attempt to figure out the mod trigger, lol)
———
It would have been nice to have a poll on how much they ‘paid”

A) $1
B) >$1

I’m starting to think you probably get some kind of discount on ‘old’ niche GM brands if you name is unpronouceable, and you don’t have a clue about building saleable cars.

I’m also quite confident that Keloggs (I’m not spelling out the name) and it’s 45 employees, can draw off the solid base of building literally dozens of cars over the past 6+ years to once again help Saab, “Find its own road” In no way is this just a grab for $600 mil from the government and Sweden by Kelloggs

It is truly a miracle how a company that was going to be closed down for owing 240,000 pounds just a little over a year and a half ago has transformed itself into such a profitable, huge auto manufacturing superpower that they can assume the responsibility and committment of running Saab…and they achieved all that by only selling a handful of cars.

I’m also can’t wait to see this 600 HP, solar panel mounted, EV with ‘new battery tech,’ getting 300 miles of range on a 15 minute charge roaming my neighbourhood in a ‘few years’…I hear the only stumbling block is that the battery needs crushed Unicorn horns, mixed with woolly mammoth blood.

/too sarcastic?

I do appreciate the article though Lyle, always room for another EV concept car and obligatory deluge of press releases for us to pass the time with and/or mock.

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Mickeyd Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 10:55 pm

Yeah but those charge times must come with a hefty price tag

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tBay Says:
June 16th, 2009 at 11:26 pm

Koenigsegg is so cool!

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Marcus R (WL #5275) Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:00 am

Awesome all around. I love anything that gets electric more exposure and changes minds about it’s capabilities. Education of the masses will occur albeit slowly.

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Anthony BC Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:01 am

Beautiful News!

As always…..

GO EV !!!

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jason M. Hendler Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 4:36 am

Tesla Motors and Fisker Automotive have shown how to make money with EV’s and REEV’s at the high end of the market, so many will follow suit. Tesla Motors and Fisker Automotive has a short time to establish themselves before there are a dozen competitors.

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Dave K. Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 4:51 am

Each new EV and EREV model is a boost to the cause. Look how far we have come in two years. Battery manufactures are in overdrive to be the chosen supplier.

The first vehicle manufacturer to produce a small EREV SUV with a sticker under $24,000 will rule the market. Probably from South Korea.

Giving bail out money to the UAW isn’t going to cut it. The USA needs an engineered plan to produce batteries here. And to offer these as “free” instead of giving EV tax credits. It’s time to wake up in D.C.

yes we can?

=D~

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nuclearboy Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 6:22 am

#21
Despite all the hype around Tesla, it has so far delivered only a few hundred Roadsters and has been losing money.

Only a very deep pocketed dreamer could make this work (ie: Elon Musk).

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RB Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 6:33 am

Great supercar concept.
Some real cars like this will be a great achievement and will change the image of the EV in the minds of the public, who now mostly thinks of golf carts. Hope GM makes the electric Corvette.

Arch #12 said . I will start installing my Geothermal Heat Pump
system June 29.

Congratulations!. How would you describe the price for Geothermal? I’ve heard people say twice that of a traditional system up front. Is that a good rough estimate?

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kent beuchert Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 7:15 am

Depending upon the price (which is unstated, probably meaning “very large”) this car certainly has the capability of
destroying Tesla’s market niche. The fast recharge batteries
are not described but simple calculations point to a pack weight of over 950 pounds. Another nail in the coffin of Agassi’s Better Place con. Cost, cost , cost of the batteries is the unknown quantitiy. Looks
like these won’t be competitive with A123 System’s MIT licensed
technology, which will outpower and certainly be cheaper and faster charging (certainly faster than 30 minutes quoted for the Koenigsegg). The inwheel electric motors are likely sourced off the shelf from PML Flightlink of England. But can this car get to market before A123 Systems’ new batteries? Ot get ahold of some of same? As of now, the big news is that Tesla is trumped by, what else?, better batteries and a more futuristic shape. Couldn’t happen to a more deserving sleazebag than Elon Musk.

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Dan Petit Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 7:24 am

The most perfect of contrasts is drawn with all these new breaking EV/EREV developments. This is the only site on the planet that brilliantly does this.
This is why I always say that this site is history happening.

Very often, the change of staff is what is required by a set of assets to cause a successful change of direction, due to the need of an entirely new and efficient set of mindsets.

But these technological contrasts, available here only, are an extremely convenient benchmark for all of future history to reference 20/20 retrospectively.

While there are many many design extremes that are proposed as well as some actually built, these extremes are the absolutely perfect way for the general public to come to understand the pitfalls of sensational design that will get you a glance at least once, but, ultimately are always too costly for practical daily tasking required.

Failed experiments usually have the lessons-derived-benefit for greater public’s understandings (to not repeat the exact same process). Not that they ought to fail from any initially-perceived uninformed-view, but that the exceptional concepts generated by those experiments might be somehow sustained to reality.

These topics which Dr. Dennis brings to us are precisely those that will give us all the greater chances of survival, and, the greater time to adapt if we take these technological lessons to heart, as well as do our very best to consume less carbon-based energy.

Have you begun to adapt your electric bill down by changing over to compact florescent bulbs? The savings could be as much as half of the electricity you would need to power your Voltec Vehicle!

Dan.

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kent beuchert Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 7:34 am

The bigger news today is the release of sales data for April for
BYD’s F3DM (Volt-type plugin with 60 miles of electric driving range, pricetage of less than $22K). The car sold over 24K units in the month and will be released for consumer sales in September. So far sales are only for govt/commercial customers. This will mean nearly a year’s worth of invivo testing on Chinese highways. Also fast recharge of 50% in 10 minutes. The F3DM is, I’m afraid, much more car than the Volt can handle. Also due out is the upgraded version, the F6DM, which looks as good as the Volt and is roughly the same size. Also with 60 mile range and partial fast recharge capability. GM’s decison to sacrifice looks for that extra mile or so of driving range is looking like a really bad move. Even their battery technology is looking weak, as car after car claims some fast recharge capability. GM was naiive in thinking they had a long lead on the technology and didn’t need looks. See what happens when you listen to the green folks?

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Arch Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 7:43 am

#24 RB The front end cost to get everything including the hotwater heater will be $18,000. Then I will get a 30% tax credit. I heat the house and hot water with propane since there are no natural gas mains in my 40 acres of timber. Last year I spent $4500 on electric and propane. (Propane BTUs now cost more than electric BTUs) The company I am buying the heat pump from says I can heat my house and hot water for $1500 a year. If that is true it will have a payback of 4 + years. Not bad in my book.

Take Care
Arch

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Joe Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 7:46 am

DaV8or Says: @5

“Good riddance. The Saab purchase was probably the dumbest deal GM ever did next to the Fiat deal a few years ago. Thank God the era of running around buying up companies is over and hopefully we can get back to just building cars”.

*****************************************************

GM owned Saab since 1990. It was not a few years ago.

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Texas Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 7:46 am

Dear Koenigsegg, Please build the beautiful solar 9-X. Oh, so beautiful. It’s the background picture on my PC. Even a limited run of hand-built babies would be fine with me. Where do I sign up?

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Shawn Marshall Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 7:58 am

Gee, this sounds sooo gooood it’s hard to believe it.
Feel like Alice in Dunderland.

GM, please sell the Voltec technology – spin off a new unit – do something to get nimble, please.

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Schmeltz Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 7:59 am

Glad to hear that Saab was bought by Swedes as they may have some incentive to save their hometown brand, but……

I have to agree with Statik’s sentiments that this is a highly iffy proposition at the very best. Even in the very best of times in the very best of markets, Saab seems to have a difficult time of selling cars in volume. Sorry, but Saab’s little quirks (like the ignition key location) doesn’t a sale, make, when you have plenty of other exciting and excellent choices out there. The college professor crowd seems to be the main loyalists to Saab, and there just isn’t enough of them to keep this boat floating. Also, Saabs, like Volvos, Mercedes, BMW’s, (insert luxury niche company here), have proprietary components, and cost big bucks when repairing, and need to be done by an actual Saab professional whom is intimately familiar with Saabs and their workings. Those sort of qualities add to the difficulties to selling something that is expensive and quirky in an environment that is tightening its belt all over the place.

To keep Saab alive, Kegg will have to dump gobs, I mean GOBS of money into this Company to develop new cars to sell. And it’s been said here many times before that to develop electric cars, (something completely atypical to what has been designed by Saab in its entire existance) is a gargantuan drain on funds. Unless GM secretly had an EREV Saab 97% complete in design needing a few polishes here and there, and ready to be assembled on a production line a week and a half from now, then I’m highly skeptical Saab will be a going concern even with this merger, or takeover, or whatever you want to call it.

I’ll be the token wet blanket today I guess.

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ziv Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 8:00 am

Kent, I am not too sure that the Chinese companies can build a quality product yet. The only good cars in Beijing are Japanese imports and Buicks. The build quality on Chery, Great Wall and Shanghai cars is abysmal. I think Guangshou is building fair Toyota clones but the rest of the Chinese built cars are death traps that rattle like a ‘78 Chevette. The car enthusiasts in China live for the day they can buy a Buick.
The Chinese will definitely improve their quality in the years to come, but it will take them a while to approach 1990’s American standards of quality, and I am not sure they will get to the level Ford is at now, or if they will get to Japanese levels at all.
Stupid anecdote, but I have been pissed as hell for over 5 years because my American made can opener got lost and I had to buy a series of increasingly expensive, made in China, can openers. None of them worked well at all. It took 3 or 4 tries to open a can, sometimes more. I bought an old American made can opener last Saturday at a garage sale. Opens every can, first try, every time. The Chinese can’t even build a can opener that works. I wouldn’t trust my family’s safety in a Chinese car, most Chinese car builders are at Yugo-like levels of quality.
Mitsubishi and GM are going to be the EREV and BEV production leaders in the short term, lets see if they can build on their early lead.

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Tagamet Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 8:02 am

DonC re “Green Hummer”
I agree that that SOUNDS like an oxymoron, but the numbers say that the larger vehicles ought to be converted early, because the gas saved is substatially greater.
Every option is an opportunity, and it looks like there will be a real burgoning of choices in the “next few years”.
Be well,
Tagamet

LJGTVWOTR

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zipdrive Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 8:29 am

Good riddance to Saab. I remember one time a friend who was rabid about Saabs, got a used one. I drove it around the block and I remember thinking what a weird, ugly car it was. Goofy ergonomics (apparently built for tall Swedes). How could anyone be passionate about this!

Years later, much to my dismay, my daughter bought a used convertible Saab. What a piece of junk. I never drove such a rattle trap in my life. I thought Saabs were known for their body integrity, but this one felt like the whole suspension was coming off every time I went over a bump.

I took matters into my own hands and bought her a Saturn Coupe. What a great solid car it is. Fun to drive and solid as a brick. (As an aside, the mileage sticker on the window was 40 MPG highway. That’s right, 40! Of course that was before they EPA changed their rules a few years ago, but still…)

Saab was never anything more than a niche player, and whatever qualities it had could never be kept once GM bought it. What were they thinking they were going to do with that company? Sell millions of quirky cars? Wasted money.

Incidentally, much as I like Saturns, I think THAT company was a wasted investment by GM too. They already had FIVE car divisions. How many did they need? The R&D money for Saturn was ripped off from other GM divisions and so they got cannibalized to create a car that Chevrolet, the low end division, should have produced.

I rant like this now and then because if I was running GM during those years none of this would have happened. Lots of other mistakes too, like going to all front-wheel drive for it’s big cars. And Cadillac should have been left to create its own cars to compete with Mercedes.

I think Michael Moore is an ass clown, but he was right about Roger Smith. That guy single handedly pulled the foundation out from under GM, ruined Flint Michigan, and set the stage for the collapsed General Motors of today.

GO VOLT!

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Sheltonjr Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 8:38 am

I dont get why people spend this kind of money for a supercar that is still limited by highway speed limits.

Im with Lutz. If you want a FAST toy buy a jet fighter. If a jet fighter is out of your price range, There are many 200+ mph aircraft in the $125-300K range that you can drive in 3D.

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dorp7 Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:07 am

Let me guess Lyle, you’ve already test driven this one also and are just waiting for the right moment to spring it on all of us.

No problem, I’m not jealous or anything like that – I’m content just to sit at my desk job staring at the computer all day, occasionally visiting this site to see what awesome supercars I’ll never be able to afford or experience.

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jeffhre Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:08 am

Statik: /too sarcastic? #16

I’m also can’t wait to see this 600 HP, solar panel mounted, EV with ‘new battery tech,’ getting 300 miles of range on a 15 minute charge roaming my neighbourhood in a ‘few years’…I hear the only stumbling block is that the battery needs crushed Unicorn horns, mixed with woolly mammoth blood.
___________________________
Every one knows there is no such thing as crushed unicorn horns and woolly mammoth blood batteries. You know nothing about technology. Kegg. is using a large BYD pack. Inside the case is hidden a smaller unit labeled EEStor that is the real workhorse. Inside the EEstore box is a smaller black box labeled Toyota/Honda fuel cell Technology. That is really where the bulk of the power for propulsion is generated. Hey, I thought you knew! Talk about FUD, no wonder you were moderated.

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DonC Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:09 am

#16 statik – Very funny. Love the unicorn horn reference. Could the moderator trigger have been “statik”? (Only kidding).

#27 ken beuchert – As ironic but not quite as funny as statik’s post. Perhaps you should have added a reference to the unicorn horns or EEStor (see Jeffhre’s post at #38).

#34 Tag – Upping the mpg of the lowest mpg vehicles makes perfect sense from a strictly logical point of view. I’m on board with this. But it does pose some unique challenges from a marketing perspective to take an iconic brand and transform it into an ironic brand. Sales of the Silverado hybrid have not been too brisk — if I remember correctly GM sold literally two last month. From GM’s perspective, it seems like a decent strategy to sell the Hummer brand, rather than say the Saturn brand, to a Chinese company which has designs to compete in NA in the efficient passenger car space.

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Happidaze Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:11 am

What of the recent Cronin-Ellsberry poll that due to pension fund terminations 43% Saab employees are disgruntled and will look to work elsewhere?

Informed of the pending transition, and loss of pensions, one Saab worker said, “I’d rather eat Swedish meatballs than work here anymore.”

And who will buy a $250K Saab?

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Adrian Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:11 am

I still am happy Penske bought Saturn. This allows me to buy Saturn once again since it is a non-government owned company.

This also shows if GM was allowed to go through proper Ch11, there would have been buyers/investors in the USA who would have bought and run GM rather than having Obama’s czars own and run it. Think on that one. Nothing is too big to fail because out of the ashes will rise a better company. Now GM has the same bad management in place and now government interference to fight.

Electric cars are still 5-7 years away from the masses being able to afford them. In 7 years the fuel cell will show up and begin to over take the market place (it will take years to do so). Be careful how you invest on electric cars (not hybrids) since you will lose money by the thousands.

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old man Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:32 am

Off topic

But my chain has been jerked. All those who think BYD is so great need to remember you will be buying from a country that has no epa and dang if they don’t pollute the air and everything else. No unions, [not that I am at all a union fan] work and live at the company, get most of their power from coal, and seem to consider the miners as expendable. Combine this with the fact that they hold the value of their money artifically low to help with exports and hinder imports.

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Tagamet Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:35 am

DonC@39 said in small part:

… But it does pose some unique challenges from a marketing perspective to take an iconic brand and transform it into an ironic brand. …

**************************************************************************************

Love the alliteration/wordsmithing. Well put.
It almost fits GM to a “T” right now.
Maybe we’d be better off promoiting CONVERSIONS of existing large vehicles.
Be well,
Tagamet
LJGTVWOTR

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N Riley Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:59 am

It may very well be that the sold off divisions of GM will become electric car companies much sooner than they would have under the GM umbrella. That is all well and good.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 10:10 am

/Statik.. you ROCK!

They do make a really fast car… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svxRpqeqFRY

#41 Adrian, we get it… you think fuel cells are the answer. I think you are mistaken.
In 5-7 years battery tech will have advanced to the point where longer range all electric drive will be possible at a reasonable price.

We will be able to charge those batteries with the solar cell on the roof of the house and the wind turbine in the backyard for free. As well as avoiding the very real H2 explosive dangers and the cost of buying the H2 in the first place. I’ll take the occasional stop for gas in my Volt thank you very much.

Ballard and others have spent a lot of money to find out that the fuel cell is a dead end because of costs. They work, I do not deny this… they just cost too much.

A cost effective battery is much closer to reality than a cost effective Fuel Cell.

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jeffhre Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 10:12 am

#41
Adrian

Electric cars are still 5-7 years away from the masses being able to afford them. In 7 years the fuel cell will show up and begin to over take the market place (it will take years to do so). Be careful how you invest on electric cars (not hybrids) since you will lose money by the thousands.
____________________
What would lead anyone to believe that batteries won’t follow the same trajectory of improvements and breakthroughs as fuel cells for the next seven years?

If fuel cells do improve radically and improbably faster than batteries, any additional progress in batteries will only help improve the viability of fuel cell vehicles that evolve to marketable platforms.

Fuel cell cars are essentially EREV’s with smaller battery packs and a fuel cell instead of an ICE. Logically then, better batteries would make fuel cell cars more attractive to a buyer on a budget.

If smaller, lighter and cheaper batteries make fuel cell cars more attractive, what kind of parallel fuel cell breakthroughs and leapfrogs would be needed to make a fuel cell vehicle as economically attractive in the future as a battery electric or EREV is for 2010? This of course does not address the infrastructure issue at all.

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Van Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 10:45 am

I think Lithium batteries have a specific energy density of about 110 Wh/kg with the potential in the near future of improving to about 300 Wh/kg. Assuming the materials and costs of fabrication are about the same as today’s Lithium batteries, this would result in cutting the cost of the batteries. For example a $750/kWh cost would be cut to about $250/kWh. If this turns out to be true, then the second or third generation Volt could have a physically smaller battery (read become a 5 seat sedan) and its cost could be lowered by about $8000.

In summary, the New GM should be able to market the first generation Volt for about $32,000 due to the Viability Plan savings, and should be able to market the second or third generation Volt for about $24,000 in the 2016 time frame. Time will tell.

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omnimoeish Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 10:49 am

I agree with Statik (hillarious post by the way). The Saab brand cost GM a billion $ a year since they bought it and now some good ol’ boys with a club of 45 guys think they are going to have pockets deep enough to make this dying brand anywhere near competitive, let alone profitable?

It takes a lot more than nice cars to be competitive. As for their wonder battery, I’ll believe that when I see it. If they really can make batteries with a 300 miles range that recharge in 15 minutes with 170wh/kg, they just solved the peak oil crisis. Something tells me it’s a little too good to be true.

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Brian Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 10:51 am

#27
I wouldn’t sing the praises of BYD to quick their 60 mile range is not at 70mph but at 45mph, 70mph was rated at 32 miles. The physics of the situation will dictate range. I don’t think ther batteries were any better than GM’s. What China has going for it once it settles on a design can mass produce a vehicle in a hurry a lot cheaper than any one else. The question is will they be able to bring them to the US market.

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Jim I Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 10:57 am

statik #16:

Mock all you want, but I would wager $5.00 that Leno and Letterman both place an order for one of these unicorn horn powered beauties….

Then:

Leno will make a short video in his 22,000 car garage, showing how cool the car is,

And

Letterman will have to make a formal apology after insulting all the Sweedish people with a crude joke……

Just another fun day on gm-volt.com

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DaV8or Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:00 am

Joe @ #29-

“GM owned Saab since 1990. It was not a few years ago.”

———————————————————————————————

My comment was referring to the aborted deal with Fiat that cost GM billions for nothing. Not GM’s ownership of Saab. That also cost GM billions for pretty much nothing.

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Noel Park Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:11 am

My suggestion is bring back the 96 Monte Carlo. 3 cyl, 850cc, 2 stroke, 3 carburetors, 4 on the tree, freewheeling, the high point of Saab history, IMHO. It’s all been down hill from there, starting with the Taunus V-4, and degenerating into the 900. Might have a bit of trouble with 2009 emissions standards though, LOL.

I remember a photo of Eric Carlsson standing next to his race car. He was about 6′3″, and must have weighed darned near as much as the car. They called him “The Bear”, or some such. Or “Eric on the roof”. Won the Monte Carlo Rallye though.

Maybe the Sonnett.

RIP Saab. You had a great heritage.

LJGTVWOTR!! NPNS!

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Noel Park Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:15 am

#49 Brian:

Yeah, and if they do will we get smart enough to not buy them?

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Larry McFall Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:16 am

Good! There was NO reason for GM to own Saab in the first place. Get rid of the ash and trash and get back to work making cars not buying other countries stuff. They can take care of there own vehicle stock.

Probably was aquired by GM’s greedy division. That is, got to have it all.

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Zen Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:27 am

#38, #46 Jeffhre – As our friends across the big pond would say, don’t be an arse:)

On #38, you intentionally ignored sarcasm which was obvious to everyone, except apparently, you.

On #46, you seem to think it’s cheaper to use electricity to split water into hydrogen, use electricity to compress hydrogen to a useable PSI, and use diesel fuel to transport hydrogen to filling stations, instead of just using the electricity in a BEV instead. Duh!

And cheaper? Please share with the rest of us where you found a supply of platinum at a price low enough to begin mass production. Answer: You can’t. Cheap platinum doesn’t exist, and “fool cells” must have platinum. No matter how much fuel cells “improve”, they require super expensive platinum to work.

But if you want a hydrogen car, go ahead. Light up a cigarette in the car, it’s perfectly safe. I’ll bring the hotdogs, and some v-e-r-y long sticks to roast them on, when your car goes Hindenburg on you.

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Noel Park Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:29 am

#54 Larry McFall:

Yeah, it about breaks my heart to think of the products which could have been developed with the $Billions they have squandered on these various nitwit diversions from the core business.

If there is a future, I sure hope that somebody in GM will remember these bitter lessons.

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Beemer Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:32 am

Wow, that new electric Saab with 300 mile range (that’s more than 7 times the range of a Volt !). As a bonus it charges in much less time than a Volt too !

+2

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:47 am

“President Takeo Fukui says the automaker is working on two new hybrids that would cost less than the Insight’s already low $19,800 starting price.”

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/06/17/honda-considering-two-lower-cost-hybrids/

Wow,a hybrid below $19K. The Fit gets approx 30 something/gallon. In hybrid it might get 42mpg (my SWAG), maybe more. The other one is not a family car or commuter so I don’t care about it.

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benion2 Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:48 am

It’s true, Michael Moore is an ass clown.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:50 am

Test…

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:51 am

WTF?

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:51 am

MODERFUKIRATION!!!

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:51 am

Arrrghhhh

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:52 am

#57 Beemer and others

A two part question;

1. I’m not pretending to be an electrical engineer (I’m not) but it seems to me that the charge current required to put that much energy into anything that fast is not only near impossible to recreate in the real world, but would be incredibly dangerous. You certainly are not getting that much that fast out of the plug in your wall.

2. Can an actual physical battery accept that much power that fast without melting? I have my doubts.

On the flip side, if it turns out to not be vapourware a battery like that could be quite a revolution! I just have the feeling it’s a great story but more of a fairytale than a textbook. None of the other ‘fast charge’ stories have moved out from fairytail land either, right?

/Thanks as always for the great discussion point Lyle! (1001 and counting)

I’ll put in the 220v charger for my Volt and I’ll good to go in the morning.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:54 am

# 59-62 rough morning Cap’n?

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 11:59 am

@MuddyRoverRob 64

1: Most Lipo batteries, specifically LiFePO4 cells can sustain a 2C charge but a 1C is best and .3c Is ideal. The lower your charge rate the longer the batt life. Theoretically lipos can sustain the same C rate in charge as it can in discharge. Hence Brake Regen. This flodds the hell out of the batt pack for a short burst.

2: It is not recommended but for only in short bursts like brake regen. For a fast standard home NEMA 220VAC socket, I think the max is 30A per socket. So a single charge point for 220VAC will only give you at best (220VAC * 30A = 6600Watts). Of course there are parasitic and conversion losses, those figures are purely theoretical principles.

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carcus1 Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

If you put a $10,000 deposit down for a Koenigsegg car, I hear they send you a pair of x-ray glasses and a cape in the mail! Sa- weet!

http://alpaltiner.com/image.php?q=841-3102-257

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carcus1 Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:05 pm

Maybe not what a super hero would drive, but at least it’s real.

Stella! . . . .. STEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLAAAAAAA!!!!

2009 Subaru Stella Plug-In Electric First Drive
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=150606

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statik Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:06 pm

#38 jeffhre said:

Every one knows there is no such thing as crushed unicorn horns and woolly mammoth blood batteries. You know nothing about technology. Kegg. is using a large BYD pack. Inside the case is hidden a smaller unit labeled EEStor that is the real workhorse. Inside the EEstore box is a smaller black box labeled Toyota/Honda fuel cell Technology. That is really where the bulk of the power for propulsion is generated. Hey, I thought you knew! Talk about FUD, no wonder you were moderated.
———-
Oh, you went there didn’t you? Everyone knows EEStor would never deal with a small company like Saab, they would only supply the really big boys….like Zenn.
===============================
#39 DonC said: “Could the moderator trigger have been “statik”? (Only kidding)

—I probably would be tempted if I was Lyle on some days, he shows incredible restraint, lol
===============================
#45 MuddyRoverRob:
Thanks for the link
================================
#59 (and probably 58b, 58c), 60, 61, 62 CaptJackSparrow:

Re: In moderation purgatory
Don’t worry about it, I got mod’d on this subject myself…there is something the filters don’t like. (Probably the Swedish language and it’s pompous use of K’s and G’s) Lyle is pretty good about getting around to unlocking them…he probably is just out diagnosing cerebrovascular disease in a stressed out housewife or something.

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CDAVIS Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:10 pm

____________________________________________________
The ETKA Principle:

Traditional high performance exotic car makers are switching to electric power trains because that is what they have to do in order to literally keep up performance wise. Also know as the ETKA (Electric Torque Kicks As*) Principle.

A guy paying big bucks to purchase an exotic sports car should have the reasonable expectation that they won’t get stomped at the race track by a garage project Electric 1972 Datsun Coupe.

Videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cf89tawZX8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=369h-SEBXd8
_____________________________________________

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

#65 Cap’n Jack

1. Absolutely! Maybe the still vapourware super caps will materialize to be a nice safe buffer for the main pack. (that would be great, but I’m not holding my breath)

2. Once again we agree! There is no way (even if the battery pack COULD take a charge that fast we couldn’t supply the power that fast.

So then we are back to the possibility of “Shell” “E-Power” plugin stations. …Ooo, that’s GOOD! Shell please send cheques my way… Seems it would be more expensive than charging at home though.

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jeffhre Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:30 pm

55 Zen;
“But if you want a hydrogen car, go ahead. Light up a cigarette in the car, it’s perfectly safe. I’ll bring the hotdogs, and some v-e-r-y long sticks to roast them on, when your car goes Hindenburg on you.”
__________________________________

Perhaps it would be easier if you read the post as American English whilst sucking a drag from your fag. Thanks for trying though. Read # 69 Statik and #45 MuddyRoverRob if you still don’t get it by now.

69 Statik ROLF – You nearly completely broke my funny bone with that one. Ouch, stop it!

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jeffhre Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:42 pm

Statik

correction @ 72 ROTFL (not rolling on le fleur)

Watch out the infamous M. R. is watching you with an ominous H******* message!

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Vegasguy Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

Here is the next supercar being built…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAqPMJFaEdY

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:01 pm

Fuel Cell supporters, I do not ‘hate’ the concept. It just makes no financial sense.

Show me a 53kw cell that costs between $2-5k that can operate from -40c to +50c be safe for the operators/occupants (of whatever it is powering) and be durable enough to take the abuse of the real world bumps, dirt, shock (potholes) and I will happily call that a fantastic accomplishment. (Might even buy one!)

I don’t see it happening.

I refuse to use the negative terms that have been used for fuel cells, but I lost money on Ballard as did a lot of people and there is a lot to prove before a second chance will be considered.

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Noel Park Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:02 pm

#57 Beemer:

Well maybe, but I’ll tell you right now I won’t pay a dime over $750,000 for it. Period. And that’s BEFORE the tax rebate.

End of story.

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carcus1 Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

CaptJack @ 58,

on the hybrid fit . . .

I haven’t driven the insight or fit, but I sat in both at the dealer. The fit has a lot more useful space (”magic seats” are kinda cool). It’s one of those cars (like a scion xb) that surprises you with the amount of interior space they squeezed out of such a small exterior.

If a hybrid version of the fit comes in at around $17,000 I think it would sell very well.

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DonC Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:13 pm

#68 carcus1 — Interesting link. Seeing what $50K gets you in Japan makes the Volt look like a Best Buy. Less than a 10 kWh pack on a BEV? Yikes!

If it’s true that mini had “thousands” of qualified buyers sign up for the mini-E then GM needs to price the Volt at $45K or higher. Otherwise GM will lose money on each car and the dealers, which aren’t part of the value added, will suck down the difference between MSRP and market price.

#69 statik says “they would only supply the really big boys….like Zenn”

Hey, don’t forget the bicycle company! (That was unkind but I couldn’t help myself).

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Guy Incognito Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

Instead of building an Electric Supercar, why not build a plain non-super electric car?

Then, once you’ve had a smashing success with your plain electric car, then build your “electric supercar.”

Baby steps guys, baby steps.

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Jackson Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:21 pm

#4 (jdsv):

“Unfortunately, I am a full two or three Jacksons away from the (total guess alert) $750,000 need to buy this car”

Huh? … What?

The world couldn’t take two of me, never mind three .

#11 (Tim-a-a (etc) a-a-ayyyy!!!):

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/03/quantum-mechani/

They claim to be able to make a thin-film, 50% efficient solar cell from iron pyrite; which is a tad more available than unicorn horns. If this is true, it’s likely to be a bigger story than (let’s admit it), another show car.

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jeffhre Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

#79 Guy Incognito

Or you could follow the always popular business model of issuing multiple press releases for a slightly plain to somewhat ugly car that will be sold at a luxury car price. And forever wonder why it’s always so hard to get investors to pony up even barely enough capital to actually build the first prototype.

Following the cell phone model, don’t the rich guys subsidize the first new technology examples until mass production brings down the price for every one else?

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jeffhre Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:32 pm

#80 Jackson

They claim to be able to make a thin-film, 50% efficient solar cell from iron pyrite; which is a tad more available than unicorn horns. If this is true, it’s likely to be a bigger story than (let’s admit it), another show car.
___________
You’re actually injecting iron pyrite, fool’s gold, into this discussion? Sir, you have gone one step too far. This is getting to be hilarious.

Almost as hilarious as a 45 man shop taking over SAAB. Ummm, never mind! Well, in 2008 it would have been hilarious

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zipdrive Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

old man Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:32 am

but my chain has been jerked. All those who think BYD is so great need to remember you will be buying from a country that has no epa and dang if they don’t pollute the air and everything else. No unions, [not that I am at all a union fan] work and live at the company, get most of their power from coal, and seem to consider the miners as expendable. Combine this with the fact that they hold the value of their money artifically low to help with exports and hinder imports.

—————————————————————————–

Yeh, life is cheap over there. They care nothing for the ordinary person. The good of the “State” is everthing. Nevermind that the state is composed of individuals. What they really mean is for the good of the thugs that run the country. Same goes for North Korea.
It’s nothing more than a large crime syndicate. Yet we prop it up under the guise of free trade, selling out the envirionment in the process.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

I think I figured out why the Volt doesn’t use UltraCaps to buffer the batt pack. To be able to buffer a 400VDC batt pack you need 152 pieces of the following: http://www.tecategroup.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18_20_39&products_id=18&zenid=e856eb8a569ec5a75d238cdbadda7197

152 * $95 = $14,440
And that would only give 19 Farad of buffer but a hellofa a punch of (4800A (Isc) * 400VDC = 1,920,000W) of Instantaneous power, for a few seconds of course. Granted it will never ever get used beyond 150KW.

Sounds nice but very cost prohibitive.

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carcus1 Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 1:47 pm

DonC @ 78,

on electric car pricing. . .

They’re all going to get whatever the market will bear. I think the “flatscreen tv” analogy is relevant here. Prices on the simple, small BEV’s will fall rapidly once competition/volume production is in place. The only expensive item in a BEV is the batteries, and today $500/kwh is used a lot more than $1000/kwh when discussing price. (you can purchase Thundersky online for $340/kwh).

I look at what’s in the car and comparitavely guess my way into a price rather than look at what they’re charging right now.

I think a imiev or stella is going to sell for under $20,000 in a few years, while the volt will probably be at least $8,000 higher due to the genset and all the extras that entail (gas tank, exhaust, radiator, etc…etc….)

/ the pictures from mitsu on the innards of the imiev are telling. There is just nothing to it. I’ve seen $1800 riding lawnmowers on the walmart sidewalk that looked like they must’ve taken more work to put together than the imiev.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/mitsubishi-imiev-production-model/2062455/

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Brian Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 2:16 pm

Hydrogen fuel cells are a losers choice 80% of our hydrogen comes distilling oil. The way I understand it, fuel cells work by stripping off the hydrogen from a hydrocarbon string like naptha, gasoline,ect. Unless you can find a cheap easy to split water fuel cells are a bad idea!! The only ones who want fuel cell to work are the oil companies they could keep there pipe lines going.

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carcus1 Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

EnerDel has a head start in the promising but risky business of manufacturing advanced batteries.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/05/27/battery-enerdel-manufacturing-business-lithium.html

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Vegasguy Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 2:33 pm

Hydrogen can be produced using Nuclear power. Super heating water will break the water apart.
http://www.ne.doe.gov/nhi/nenhi.html

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Jackson Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

#82 (jeffhre):

“You’re actually injecting iron pyrite, fool’s gold, into this discussion? Sir, you have gone one step too far. This is getting to be hilarious.”

I’m not kidding (though I treated it humorously). Take a look at the link that Timaaayyy posted in #11; they actually are claiming to have invented 50% efficient solar cells made from iron pyrite:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/03/quantum-mechani/

“Pyrite (also known as fool’s gold) has tremendous photovoltaic properties that are only recently being developed into commercially viable solar technology. A leader in pyrite research, NLV Solar is a Swedish company that has partnered with Koenigsegg on the Quant. NLV says their Pyradian solar cells will be highly efficient, with a peak photovoltaic conversion ratio of 50 percent, which bests the current world record by 8.9 percent. Pyradian cells can also be applied to any surface as a thin film, turning the already aerodynamic Quant into a massive moving solar panel.“

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ccombs Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

Once again, very crazy claims, reality will hit in a few years. The Volt has been tested moreso than these pie-in-the-sky cars, so we know much more of what it will be like in the *real world*. In a few months we will know even more. Let these “fast charging” crazy $$ cars blaze the way for a future where they actually make sense (try passing a quick charge current through your house grid!) with a national recharge infrastructure. That is YEARS and years away, the Volt is simple and here soon (or whenever Statik predicts it will be, since he is always right).

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jeffhre Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 2:43 pm

#89
Jackson

#82 (jeffhre):

“You’re actually injecting iron pyrite, fool’s gold, into this discussion? Sir, you have gone one step too far. This is getting to be hilarious.”

I’m not kidding (though I treated it humorously).
_____________________
I’m not implying you’re kidding, I’m just stating it’s hilarious! Just one of those days on one of those threads. Thanks for the clarifiation.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

#84 Cap’n Jack
Sigh… it always comes back to the cash-ola issue doesn’t it?

Granted that IS the retail price! Volume discounts?

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jeffhre Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

From # 91

Jackson, thanks for the clarification. Wouldn’t it be ironic if the first “breakthrough” I write “sounds like an April fools joke” turned out to be the real deal.

I apologize for the two posts, I had to leave the keyboard for a moment to answer a non GM-Volt related question.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

@MuddyRoverRob 92

That was pricing for 50+, I dunno what it is for over 100. It says to call. lol.
I’m sure if the purchase was for thousands it would be less and even less if you’re an OEM.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

OK, I can’t wait any longer.

e-Mini driving Impressions Lyle! Please??
Video of a burnout?
Mythbuster style mileage testing?
Bond style chase scene?

Inquiring minds want to know!

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Noel Park Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

There’s some pretty interesting stuff on the allcarselectric.com blog today.

Like Energy Secretary Chu giving the commencement speech at Cal Tech including comments about the urgency for changing to electric power for our personal transportation. Evidently, this is not the first time either. I am confident that Secretary Chu speaks for the President on policy matters He is also a distinguished (Nobel Laureate) scientist. The message I get is that something is going to happen here, without a doubt.

Also a piece on Elon Musk, evidently speaking at some Wired magazine sponsored conference, saying that gasoline should be $10/gallon by the time the externalized costs are factored in. Shades of our excellent blogger jbfalaska.

Not too many comments on allcarselectric.com, BTW. It would be cool if some of us went over there and gave Dr. Dennis some support. Even if the “verification” process is a pain in the you know what. Thank heavens we don’t have that here. Maybe that’s why they don’t have too many comments, LOL. Plus, only 500 characters per comment. Wouldn’t get it here, hehehe.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

#94 Cap’n Jack
it’s an interesting question which I’m sure the engineers have at least looked at.

—————————————————————————–

I was chatting with one of the guys in my office and he out geeks me it seems… I am shamed…

His question was why couldn’t they use NASA’s ion engine to run the extender? It ran practically forever on a handful of fuel.

I can think of a few reasons why that might not be ideal, (or even work) but you have to admit it sure would be COOL to kick in the ion engine at battery depletion!

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old man Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:17 pm

#96 Noel Park

I go to all cars electric everyday. And I also think it has a lot of interesting post that keep me somewhat up to date regarding electric cars in the pipeline.

I have tried several times to leave a thought but can not get past the verification process.

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David K (CT) Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:18 pm

MuddyRoverRob @ 97

The ion engine that NASA uses is very low thrust but operates over long periods of time (acceleration-on-acceleration-on, etc.).

Besides the thrust engine does work very well at atmospheric pressures.

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MuddyRoverRob Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

#99 David K (CT)
I completely understand this, but come on… the idea just has to make you smile!

I give my friend points for ‘out of the box’ thinking!

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RB Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:30 pm

#28 Arch on the Geothermal
—————————————————————–
Thank you on the geothermal information.
Sounds like a great system.
(I am trying to follow in your footsteps.)

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

“I give my friend points for ‘out of the box’ thinking!”

Progress only occurs when that happens.
)

Kudos to your friend.

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Jackson Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 4:30 pm

The Ion Engine would more properly be called an ion motor; in that it needs an external source of energy to power it. Since the range extender is supposed to be a source of energy, I don’t think the space engine qualifies.

… however, I’m still holding out hope for Diolithium Crystals.

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statik Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

#103 Jackson said:

The Ion Engine would more properly be called an ion motor; in that it needs an external source of energy to power it. Since the range extender is supposed to be a source of energy, I don’t think the space engine qualifies.

… however, I’m still holding out hope for Diolithium Crystals.

======================
I have a whole bag full of ZPMs that will eat your ‘Diolithium’ Crystals for a afternoon snack?
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/stargate/images/1/1c/LifelineZPM.jpg

/too nerdy a reference?

Here is a ZPM primer for the non-SGA watchers (Stargate Atlantis):

“A Zero Point Module, often abbreviated ZPM, is an incredibly long-lived power source of great magnitude capable of powering entire cities and intergalactic spacecraft for thousands of years, making it the cleanest and most potent energy source in the known universe. Current physics suggests that no power source with greater unit yield is theoretically possible.”
http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Zero_Point_Module

(leave me alone about it already…it was made in Canada, and we don’t make much good tv)

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Noel Park Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 5:28 pm

Who was it who used to comment here about the “flux capacitor”, or whatever it was. Might as well just go straight to “warp drive” Sorry to display my ignorance.

#98 old man:

I think that you’re probably just about as “old” as I am, LOL. But I refuse to grow up! In fact my wife says that I get less mature each year. She’s right! It’s all part of my plan.

I totally agree with you that the “verification” thing is really frustrating. It took me about 6 tries to get it done today. The letters you are supposed to type in are totally illegible to me some times. I just keep trying until I hit it lucky. Or give up.

Plus the 500 characters max was new to me today. If they hardly get any comments, why would they care?

If this blog can get by without those things, I don’t see why that one can’t. They would get a lot more comments if they got rid of these obstacles, IMHO.

Hello Dr. Dennis?? Hint, hint, hint.

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statik Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 5:44 pm

#105 noel park

Re: Comments on AllCarsElectric.com

I totally agree with you that the “verification” thing is really frustrating. It took me about 6 tries to get it done today. The letters you are supposed to type in are totally illegible to me some times. I just keep trying until I hit it lucky. Or give up.

Plus the 500 characters max was new to me today. If they hardly get any comments, why would they care?

If this blog can get by without those things, I don’t see why that one can’t. They would get a lot more comments if they got rid of these obstacles, IMHO.

Hello Dr. Dennis?? Hint, hint, hint.
===============================

You right, it is a little tricky to get a comment up…and 500 characters goes by hella fast.

I confess the difficulty of posting has almost completely ground any of my own comment activity to a halt (although I do attempt it from time to time). I have mentioned the issue myself a couple times early in the site’s life.

Of course, maybe Lyle’s intention is to not make it a ‘community’ site, but rather a news portal site. I do check it regularly, and anyone else interested in ‘EV news’ should as well…they have some good pieces.

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Noel Park Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 5:48 pm

#98 old man:

Actually, the words seem to have gotten a bit easier to decipher today. I still got it wrong a few times, but it’s better than I remember. Also, after the first one on a thread, subsequent comment seem to come up immediately, without moderation, which would be progress, if true.

Give it another try, and see if you think I’m right.

I saw old Jason Hendler there just now, so good for him.

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Timaaayyy!!! Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 6:19 pm

Comments about BYD: please note that they have a LONG way to go–sales of the F3DM were NOT 24,000 units in April; they were so small they are not even listed on most sites. Their current main competitve advantage is cheap labor–both in manufacturing and in engineering. As an investor in the stock, I’m hoping that, until they become a research force, they can continue to ‘use’ other’s technology to produce products cheaply. They’re probably working on a King’s Egg copy right now, at 1/5 the price. And Fools’ Gold solar cells. And a Nullanium copy called Emptycranium. lol

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RB Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 8:18 pm

#7 CorvetteGuy said
Ya’know… When it was announced that GM would be split into 2 parts > The “Good GM Brands” and the “Bad GM Brands”, and the bad would be sold off in bankruptcy, I was thinking “Yay! Chevy stays as one of the good brands!” – - – But I am amazed how quickly the so-called ‘bad brands’ got snatched up by reputable companies and it looks like they get the last laugh…!?
—————————————————–

Very good points that cause one to wonder what would happen if Chevy Volt, including Voltec, were sold to another company. It seems that the major risk factor for us right now is that the car is produced but in low volume (meaning not available to us). Then the low volume becomes the reason for not producing more. In contrast, if it were sold, maybe even to Penske, the buyer would have a strong reason to push cars out the door.

I am thinking that things will not come to this and the Volt will have a happy future with GM, but they have made enough comments here and there along the line about lack of foreseen profitability that one is not too confident. So if the worst happens and GM frowns, maybe a sale will not be so much a bad thing.

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Arch Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 9:54 pm

# 1o1 RB

Be sure to look at the Water Furnace info. Looks to be the best to me. JMHO

Take Care
Arch

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Marinko Says:
June 17th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

It’s interesting that upon leaving the GM corporate stable, these new brands seem likely to deploy vehicles with significantly better mileage – authentic hybrids and vehicles with an electric driveplain.

Could this be indicative of corporate culture issues at GM that are partly responsiible for GM’s bankruptcy?

What steps have been taken to implement a change in corporate culture as part of the bankruptcy procedure?

Is GM capable of changing it’s corporate culture?

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NZDavid Says:
June 18th, 2009 at 12:56 am

Statik at 104 says:
I have a whole bag full of ZPMs that will eat your ‘Diolithium’ Crystals for a afternoon snack?
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/stargate/images/1/1c/LifelineZPM.jpg

/too nerdy a reference?

Here is a ZPM primer for the non-SGA watchers (Stargate Atlantis):

“A Zero Point Module, often abbreviated ZPM, is an incredibly long-lived power source of great magnitude capable of powering entire cities and intergalactic spacecraft for thousands of years, making it the cleanest and most potent energy source in the known universe. Current physics suggests that no power source with greater unit yield is theoretically possible.”
http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Zero_Point_Module

(leave me alone about it already…it was made in Canada, and we don’t make much good tv)

Oh my God, you really went there!
/The sad part is I knew what you were writing about, like, many others here, I suspect.

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statik Says:
June 18th, 2009 at 7:08 am

#112 NZDavid said:

Oh my God, you really went there!
/The sad part is I knew what you were writing about, like, many others here, I suspect.
——————-
If anyone had to know…it would be you, lol.

I guess if you know Flight of the Conchords (formerly New Zealand’s fourth most popular guitar-based digi-bongo acapella-rap-funk-comedy folk duo)…then you’d know this too. Of course being from New Zealand that makes sense…and SGA is very popular in your neck of the woods as well, really high ratings (relatively) for some reason.

/something tells me we have very similar habits

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AlexJ Says:
September 8th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

You obviously haven’t seen videos of electric cars drag racing, hm? If you had, you would know that electrics have FULL torque at 0 rpm. Not only will they take you on acceleration, but down the pipe too. Electric motors can switch between running series and parallel keeping horsepower at its peak. I say to you, good luck. Watch youtube videos of the White Zombie drag car and be amazed.

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