Jun 10

LG Chem Breaks Ground on New Lithium-ion Battery Plant in Korea, Eventually Plans to Build One in US

 

LG Chem is the Korean company that GM chose to supply the lithium-ion battery cells for the Chevrolet Volt.  LG has already begun the process of creating the assembly line that will manufacture the proprietary large format or prismatic cells for the Volt.  Those cells will be shipped to the USA and placed into packs by GM at its own assembly plant in northeast Michigan.  The location for that plant has already been chosen but not yet announced. Current low volume cells for the Volt prototypes are being made on an existing line in Korea.

Each Volt uses between 200 and 300 cells which make up the 300V, 16 kwh battery pack.

News from Korea has disclosed that the GM Volt contract begins on November 1, 2010 and runs until 2015.  Though initial cells will be shipped from Korea, LG confirms plans to build a lithium-ion battery factory in the United States for the Volt.

On Wednesday, however, the company had a groundbreaking ceremony for a new lithium-ion battery plant in Korea. LG is investing $794 million to build the plant and is very bullish on the future of electric cars. They expect to receive nearly $2 billion in car battery revenue by 2015, or 20% of the global market, projecting there will be an astounding 4.6 million electric cars on the road by then. They predict there will be 3.3 million cars by 2013.

“We are running out of fossil fuels, and global warming makes the development of eco-friendly energy sources a key issue for survival,” said LG Chem CEO Kim Bahn-suk. “The high performance, high efficient electric car batteries produced here will be a key ingredient for the futuristic and environmentally-friendly car technologies.”

Representatives from the Korean government were at the cermony too along with GM’s director of EVs and Hybrids, Bob Kruse.

“The government aims to grow Korean green car industry to be one of the world’s ‘big four’ by the mid 2010s, and I believe LG Chem will be a valuable partner for us,” Korean Minister of Knowledge Economy Lee said. “The future of the electronic car battery will also decide the future of not only the global auto industry but also the energy industry in a larger sense.”

LG says details on construction of the US plant have not yet been decided.

“Details are not available at this time because things are still being worked out,” LG spokesperson Dick Pacini told GM-Volt.com. “But our plan always has been to grow our footprint in the US, and in particular, Michigan.”

Source (JoongAng Daily ) and (Korea Herald)

This entry was posted on Wednesday, June 10th, 2009 at 9:41 am and is filed under Battery, Production. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 118


  1. 1
    GLV

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (9:46 am)

    First! :)

    It’s great to see all the pieces starting to be put into place.

    LJGTVWOTR!


  2. 2
    nuclearboy

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (9:47 am)

    We should see the Electric Hyundais in a few years. Their cars are really getting better. Korean manufacturing is beginning to rival Japan. This will surely speed the wide spread deployment of batteries.

    Hopefully the Nitwit to the north does not do anything stupid.


  3. 3
    Alex S

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (9:52 am)

    first


  4. 4
    Jacob

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (9:53 am)

    We’ve had 2 Hyundais, an Elantra and a Sante Fe. They are great cars. Can’t beat the 10 years warranty. It would be awesome if they had a hybrid or electric version to choose from for our next one!


  5. 5
    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (9:55 am)

    At least the ‘assembly’ work is done here.
    America needs more jobs!


  6. 6
    statik

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:07 am)

    “News from Korea has disclosed that the GM Volt contract begins on November 1, 2010 and runs until 2015. Though initial cells will be shipped from Korea, LG confirms plans to build a lithium-ion battery factory in the United States for the Volt.”
    ==========
    I’d love to see something clearer on this…there is only a passing reference to it in the first sourced article.

    I know they have a supplier contract…but I don’t recall ever hearing specifics on the duration of it, so that is good information for sure.

    Would be nice to know if there is a corresponding order for actual delivery of production cells…and if so, when, and how many. That would also be great some information.

    The fact they are just breaking ground now on the plant now and plan to get it open in the first half of 2010, is a little worrisome for timelines, but they should be able to get it done if they keep their heads down…just no time for hiccups.

    /good find Lyle…actual Volt related news is seemingly few and far between lately, nice to see it…great thread


  7. 7
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:08 am)

    Another critical piece of the puzzle!

    Thanks Lyle!


  8. 8
    k-dawg

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:10 am)

    “Those cells will be shipped to the USA and placed into packs by GM at its own assembly plant in northeast Michigan”

    Did you mean northeast Detroit?
    I dont see a plant going into Alpena?


  9. 9
    MarkH

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:11 am)

    From the article: They expect to receive nearly $2 billion in car battery revenue by 2015, or 20% of the global market, projecting there will be an astounding 4.6 million electric cars on the road by then. They predict there will be 3.3 million cars by 2013.

    Assuming the U.S. maintains roughly a quarter of the world’s new car market, that would fit the Obama goal of a million plugin cars for 2015,

    Have you revised your own projection for 2015, statik? I don’t think you had Hyundai on your list, or the Japanese manufacturers Nissan or Subaru.

    Do you think LG Chem is putting out a realistic estimate?


  10. 10
    k-dawg

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:15 am)

    Statik – “The fact they are just breaking ground now on the plant now and plan to get it open in the first half of 2010, is a little worrisome for timelines”

    ——–

    I didn’t read where they planned on having this plant open the first half of 2010?


  11. 11
    V=IR

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:21 am)

    Thanks for the daily serving of Volt news.


  12. 12
    Boris Badass

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:21 am)

    I agree, the new Hyundai Genesis Coupe is one of the best cars out there for the price (low 20s). I would love to see more Korean Cars here in America to pick up the slack created by the declining American Car presence. Thousands and thousands of American Car Dealerships will be closing soon, hopefully many will decide to start selling the Korean brands. They really do make very nice cars now. They have highly advanced assembly line technology.


  13. 13
    statik

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:21 am)

    #9 k-dawg said:

    Statik – “The fact they are just breaking ground now on the plant now and plan to get it open in the first half of 2010, is a little worrisome for timelines”
    ——–
    I didn’t read where they planned on having this plant open the first half of 2010?
    ==============================

    Sorry, I should have referenced it. I always read the source articles first, and then the actual thread subject, that way I get the information direct and can form my own opinion before I read Lyle’s interpretation and the commentary that follows…I forgot I didn’t pull that info from here.

    …it is from the second article:

    “The new plant, scheduled be opened in the first half of next year, will supply lithium-ion batteries to General Motors from the second half of next year. ”

    http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/NEWKHSITE/data/html_dir/2009/06/11/200906110039.asp


  14. 14
    Jim Rowland

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:26 am)

    This will be good for Detriot…. every little bit helps. I wonder what else the Koreans have up their sleeve. They started the job loss coverage on a new cars that is popular now and have unbeatable warranty’s. Maybe GM will follow their lead.


  15. 15
    Rick

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:32 am)

    Those dealerships that GM and Chrysler are forcing to close may have the last laugh. If a few hundred of them become Korean or Chinese dealerships and start making a bigger dent in the U.S. market those government fools at GM/Chrysler are going to regret their actions. Revenge is sweet. I wish them much success as this government (including the new GM Chairman) no absolutely nothing about cars.


  16. 16
    ArkansasVolt

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:33 am)

    Sounds like things are coming together in order to get the Volt on the road. Great move on the companies involved!


  17. 17
    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:34 am)

    Quote:
    “Each Volt uses between 200 and 300 cells which make up the 300V, 16 kwh battery pack.”

    Wait a minute. I thought the Volt had a 400VDC batt pack?

    Sup wit dat!


  18. 18
    DonC

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:38 am)

    Interesting article. The factory opening in the first half of 2010 and deliveries in the second half of 2010 doesn’t seem to jibe with the beginning of the contract period in November 2010 but that’s probably just a language issue.

    #6 statik says “actual Volt related news is seemingly few and far between lately”

    Seems like we’ve actually had a fair amount. Hey we know there is a black Volt! Seriously, we’ve had a slew of test drives, including one with a Prius/Insight comparison by Lyle yesterday and Chels Sexton last week. We know building the IVs have started. Also yesterday we had the Fastlane blog cited by Shaft and Carcus1. That had a lot of information, including video going over things like the number of battery pack generations that GM has gone through (we’re on Gen V) and Frank Weber saying in a written response that the Volt engine would be more quiet than a standard ICE car and would handle precisely the same as when in EV mode. My favorite was Mr. Weber citing the range as being (the dreaded) “up to 40 miles”.

    Seems like a lot.


  19. 19
    ThombDBhomb

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:38 am)

    Obama’s goal is to have 1 million plug-in hybrid vehicles on U.S. roads by 2015. LG projects there will be an astounding 4.6 million electric cars on the (worldwide) road by then.


  20. 20
    Peter Stickler

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:42 am)

    I now work for LG (formerly at Ford). I can assure you that South Korea will lead in Battery Development for some time to come. Also the quality of their cars is simply astounding. There is absolutely no reason that Korea can not dominate the American auto market. They are determined and extremely smart. I would strongly suggest every American go out and test drive one of the many new cars offered by your local Korean dealer, you won’t be disappointed. ;-)


  21. 21
    statik

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:43 am)

    #16 CaptJackSparrow said:

    Quote:
    “Each Volt uses between 200 and 300 cells which make up the 300V, 16 kwh battery pack.”

    Wait a minute. I thought the Volt had a 400VDC batt pack?

    Sup wit dat!
    =======================
    Nice catch, I didn’t notice that at all. It has always been 400 (at least I assumed so)…wonder where that came from. Doesn’t mention any specifics on the articles, maybe Lyle just typo’d.


  22. 22
    Larry McFall

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:44 am)

    LG is a good company and they are very efficent in their manufacturing and managment of their business. They will be able to honor thier contract for a long time. It is real good to hear that they may build a battery production plant here in the USA. We have many LG production plants here now which are doing good.

    I noticed a response from K-Dawg that addressed an LG plant being built now or at least in the near future. It would be interesting to know where the plant is going to be. It is good to have them here.


  23. 23
    ThombDBhomb

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:46 am)

    Build me a decent plug-in at a decent price and I’ll be one of the 4.6 million. I prefer EV over ICE, if the EV can meet my needs (which aren’t too demanding). I’m a purchase waiting to happen. I’m holding on to my clunker in hopes that the EV revolution is imminent.


  24. 24
    William F

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:54 am)

    I have driven a couple of new Korean cars. They are awesome. That Genesis is a sweet ride. If the Koreans decide to move in on the EV market then GM may be in trouble. I visited a Honda and Toyota lot the same day I drove the Hyundai Genesis Coupe and they had nothing to compare within $8K of the Genesis. If Hyundai would make a Hybrid Genesis it would create some serious competition for your Volt dollar.


  25. 25
    k-dawg

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:54 am)

    From the linked articcle “In an effort to to ensure stable supply to GM, LG Chem is considering building a battery plant in the United States, although a detailed schedule has not been decided yet, the company said yesterday. ”

    ————

    “Considering” ?
    Wasn’t it part of the GM battery contract that the cell supplier MUST build a cell plant near the assembly plant? I could be wrong, but that’s how i remember it.


  26. 26
    k-dawg

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:55 am)

    @ 21 Larry McFall
    I was talking about GM’s battery assembly plant


  27. 27
    Van

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:57 am)

    Does this mean it will be the Volt 2016 model that sports the next generation battery that is half the size and possibly half the cost?


  28. 28
    Tsunami

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:02 am)

    There will be a tidal wave of EV imports heading our way in 2011 (less than 2 years – woot!). The Volt will be a one trick pony. We need more options than a downsized GM can deliver. Success of the imports is very important because it will guarantee that the American companies cannot kill the EV again.

    - former proud EV1 owner (GM done me wrong)


  29. 29
    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:15 am)

    Here’s another goodie for the “Jobs in the US”…..

    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/06/10/coda-automotive-announces-u-s-battery-joint-venture/

    Quote:
    “The joint venture company, called Coda Battery Systems LLC, has applied for a grant under the stimulus program to build the plant in Enfield, CT. The new venture plans to employ 600 people at the factory.”

    I know how yawll jus love that car…..


  30. 30
    Life's Good

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:18 am)

    Go LG !
    They make a great washer/dryer too.

    The Hyundai plant in Alabama employees many americans and treats them much better than the so-called Big 3. The main difference between foreign auto companies building cars in America is the MANAGEMENT. That’s right the top and mid-level managers at American companies suck ass. They only look out for themselves, don’t care about company reputation, will lie, cheat, steal to get ahead and treat subordinates with disrespect. The complete opposite happens at the Korean plants here in the U.S. . Look at how Toyota treats all the American workers at the San Antonio Tundra plant, it is simply amazing. You will never find an American auto company treat their employees like that, not in a million years. No wonder most of the foreign plants don’t even want to be unionized, they love their jobs.


  31. 31
    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:19 am)

    This is good to see that mfgr of SOMETHING is done in the US and jobs are the direct result. It looks like plant jobs doing mechanical stuff is migrating to a little more technical/electrical. So the umpteen thousand jobs of past are technical jobs of future.

    Can you say……E V O L U T I O N ?


  32. 32
    CS Guy

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:21 am)

    “We are running out of fossil fuels, and global warming makes the development of eco-friendly energy sources a key issue for survival,” said LG Chem CEO Kim Bahn-suk.

    Now that’s what I’m talking about. I wish Lutz and the rest of GM heads had such clear vision.


  33. 33
    Schmeltz

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:22 am)

    Good news about this battery factory and the prospect of an additional factory in America. I’m a little suprised this isn’t already underway, but still glad to hear it’s being done.

    Thread jack I guess but anyone here the news that the Marriage between Fiat and Chrysler has been officially completed? 40 days for a bankruptcy of that magnitude has got to be some sort of record.


  34. 34
    LG Volt

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:31 am)

    The Volt may be assembled in the U.S. but make no mistake it is powered by LG.

    LG = Life’s Good ;-)

    GM = Government-owned Manufacturer (Not So Good) :-(


  35. 35
    Steven P

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:38 am)

    Hyundai is going to be one of the major powerhouse car companies going forward. Even in this downturn their sales have continued to be relatively strong and they are continuing to ramp up. They pioneered new concepts like long warantees and purchase protection programs that are widely copied now. It wouldn’t suprise me at all if they were #1 in about 10 years. They are a very hungry and motivated company.


  36. 36
    k-dawg

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:42 am)

    33 LG Volt Says:
    The Volt may be assembled in the U.S. but make no mistake it is powered by LG.

    —————-

    Hopefully its powered by a local renewable energy source.


  37. 37
    CDAVIS

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:46 am)

    ______________________________________________________
    Thanks for that LG Chem update Lyle. Starting to look like the Chevy Volt might be for real 2010 timeline wise.

    In Other News……….

    “I don’t know anything about cars”
    “I think I can learn about cars”

    Edward E. Whitacre Jr.
    Chairman of the New GM Board

    Source:
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aQ._YJhEj_Jo

    Does having a new GM Chariman that knows nothing about cars help or hurt the Voltec Program? I could argue it both ways.
    ______________________________________________________


  38. 38
    old man

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:54 am)

    Those predicting that Korea is going to be a major player in our Auto consumption are right. I have sold Korean Machine Tools and know from experience that they studied the means that Japan used to get in our market and to even drive our industries out.
    Our only hope is for the government to get a new trade agreement that makes them open their country to our products as we have opened ours. The only problem is their people understand the importance of buying Korean products rather than imports. [We seem to be the only people that do not understand this]
    They are able to build fine products [tho it does take them a while.]


  39. 39
    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:55 am)

    @k-dawg 35

    33 LG Volt Says:
    The Volt may be assembled in the U.S. but make no mistake it is powered by LG.

    —————-

    Hopefully its powered by a local renewable energy source.
    —————————————

    I think everyone should use that $7500 rebate the following year to get a small Solar package for their home. This is good for at leaat a 1.2KW system, small but effective. You’ll be driving for……
    F R E E E E E E E E

    Then of course you’ll get another rebate from the feds for the Solar package and maybe, depending on state, a little somethin from the state.


  40. 40
    Akio Toyoda

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (12:01 pm)

    I am amused by you Americans. Your promising Volt is heavily loaded with much Asian technology. It is obvious to the rest of the world that you have lost your edge. We in the East have much more surprises for you. You western Amerikans will be dealt a severe blow by the rising Eastern powers. Our superiority will become more pronounced in the coming decades as our economies will swiftly dwarf the once great America. It is time that America and their government run corporations be put in their place. GM has brought much shame on their cause. We will be glad to put you out of your misery at a time and place of our choosing. I will now consume the rest of my scrumptious meal and enjoy another fine Volt moment. Your humble friend, Akio.


  41. 41
    k-dawg

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (12:01 pm)

    @ 37 Oldman

    We’ve sold some equipment to the Korean auto industry (not GM Korea). However, they are using the same processes as GM Mexico, at least for what we sold them. I didnt get to make the trip to Korea on the install, but I talked to some of the people who did. The plant was great (very clean), but outside the plant, lots of horror stories.


  42. 42
    Adrian

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (12:04 pm)

    #31 CS guy… the first statements made are incorrect. We are far from running out of fossil fuels. We could have 100 years of fuel from oil left at the current consumption rate. There is no man made global warming proven to exist. Most data actually shows global cooling and how little impact man has. Global warming is a power play by government to control your life. stop drinking the Kool aid long enough to review the facts and data yourself.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/auto_industry/just_42_of_gm_owners_likely_to_buy_gm_again

    If this holds, GM will go under sooner than later. Make mine the Ford Volt in 2018 with hydrogen power and at a price where I truly save money… :)

    Having seen many companies taken over by folks who know zero about the businesses they run, GM is in huge trouble. An example of a few companies in the same straight…
    Sears/Kmart
    Midway Games
    Turner Construction

    All 3 have seen great market share reductions and high employee dissatisfaction/turnover rates since the point of CEO change. Midway went ch11 in the midst of video game boom no less.


  43. 43
    Guido

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (12:05 pm)

    Tsunami Says:
    June 10th, 2009 at 11:02 am
    There will be a tidal wave of EV imports heading our way in 2011 (less than 2 years – woot!). The Volt will be a one trick pony. We need more options than a downsized GM can deliver. Success of the imports is very important because it will guarantee that the American companies cannot kill the EV again.

    - former proud EV1 owner (GM done me wrong)
    ——-
    Hmmm – GM only leased the EV1, so you never owned one. You can have the Korean cars, as well as all the $#@#$ Kim Chi you can stuff up your arse.


  44. 44
    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (12:06 pm)

    @CDAVIS

    “Does having a new GM Chariman that knows nothing about cars help or hurt the Voltec Program? I could argue it both ways.”

    Back when I worked in a mfgr facility, we got a new sup/manager. We were told that a sup/manager did not necessarilyneed to “know” anything about the products we mfgr’d, they just needed to know where to place the manpower to keep production up. I though to myself they’re friggin nuts. Turned out, although she knew jack sh|t about the products, she knew where we needed to put the resources to keep production up and lite fires under whoever is bottlenecking the flow, not only on the prod floor but in management too. So yeah, I can agree with detailed knowledge of a product not being a requirement to mange mfgring.
    It did help that she was a gorgeous MILF though.
    What? I’m just sayn…..


  45. 45
    Guido

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (12:08 pm)

    Adrian Says:
    June 10th, 2009 at 12:04 pm
    #31 CS guy… the first statements made are incorrect. We are far from running out of fossil fuels. We could have 100 years of fuel from oil left at the current consumption rate. There is no man made global warming proven to exist. Most data actually shows global cooling and how little impact man has. Global warming is a power play by government to control your life. stop drinking the Kool aid long enough to review the facts and data yourself.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/auto_industry/just_42_of_gm_owners_likely_to_buy_gm_again

    If this holds, GM will go under sooner than later. Make mine the Ford Volt in 2018 with hydrogen power and at a price where I truly save money…

    Having seen many companies taken over by folks who know zero about the businesses they run, GM is in huge trouble. An example of a few companies in the same straight…
    Sears/Kmart
    Midway Games
    Turner Construction

    All 3 have seen great market share reductions and high employee dissatisfaction/turnover rates since the point of CEO change. Midway went ch11 in the midst of video game boom no less.
    ——–
    I see you are a Ford fan ( as am I ) – their CEO, Alan Mulaly, came from Boeing – and freely admits he knew nothing about cars when he took the job.


  46. 46
    Mitch

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (12:25 pm)

    Wow…Trolls are in force today..watch out crossing bridges,…


  47. 47
    Vincent

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (12:33 pm)

    Quote>

    “LG is investing $794 million to build the plant and is very bullish on the future of electric cars. They expect to receive nearly $2 billion in car battery revenue by 2015, or 20% of the global market, projecting there will be an astounding 4.6 million electric cars on the road by then. They predict there will be 3.3 million cars by 2013.”

    Does anyone see the huge problem with this. Why doesn’t the US build this plant and profit the $2Billion. Keep the money here and export out US made batteries…WTF !

    Who is approving this crap and why is it that our tax money is not being invested in this ?

    Just unbelievable. Fritz you need to call Obama and be the company earning the $2 billion. Wake up you fools. You just lost 20% of the market.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (12:37 pm)

    It is not the new CEO that is the problem for GM… He could probably turn the company around and make a profit…

    The problem is the Hundreds of new CEOs in congress and the car czar, the climate czar, the pay czar, the urban czar, the regulatory czar, the stimulus accountability czar, and any and all financial czars.

    The Govt has already promised that GM will not leave Detroit, even if it might be cheaper to headquarter in the South.

    The Govt fired the first CEO.

    The Govt pushed to have 160,000 of the new Korean made Sparks built in the US.

    The Govt has been deciding which dealers will close and not close.

    The Govt will surely push the green agenda.

    WHen all is said and done, this new guy will be answering to a chorus of demands from a Govt who “does not want to run the car company” but who has some “special needs” that should be considered.

    The new GM will loose money too. Business decisions should not be made by special interests in Washington DC.

    I still want a Volt and will still support GM (and Ford). I just worry about the CEOs in DC. Their track record stinks.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (12:45 pm)

    #36 CDAVIS said
    “I don’t know anything about cars”
    “I think I can learn about cars”
    Edward E. Whitacre Jr.
    Chairman of the New GM Board (with link)

    Does having a new GM Chariman that knows nothing about cars help or hurt the Voltec Program? I could argue it both ways.
    —————————————————————————-

    Whitacre’s principal qualification is (1) that he has great experience in dealing with the government and (2) he is a personal friend of the head of the auto task force. At AT&T government linkage was critical, as AT&T functions as one of the two virtual government monopolies, along with Verizon.

    At GM Whitacre’s ties to the government will continue to be huge assets. However, at AT&T his customers could not go elsewhere (except to the other monopoly) so an agreement of ATT with the feds was almost a guarantee of profitability. In constrast, at GM customers can go to lots of other companies for autos (such as Hyundai). That means that GM can agree with the feds to do things a certain way but still lose money if customers don’t like it. Unfortunately Whitacre has no experience in making cars that customers will want to buy.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (12:47 pm)

    #39 Akio Toyoda – LOL. Thanks again for the recurring “Tokyo Rose” humor pieces. Suffice to say, I chuckle (rather than quiver in fear) when you utter that “We in the East have much more surprises for you….”

    Of course, your statement that “Amerikans will be dealt a severe blow by the rising Eastern powers” immediately exposes you as a non-Asian fraud. Anyone familiar with Asian culture and politics knows the rivalry and animosity that exists between Korea and Japan, as well as China and Japan. Any proclamations of unity among these nations against the common enemy of America would only be uttered by an uninformed white boy.

    PS – I hear your mommy calling you. Your grilled cheese sandwich is ready.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (12:49 pm)

    #6 Statik

    Sidenote for statik: Factory may actually come through with 2 or 3 Camaros this month. July looking up! Yeah!!!


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (1:18 pm)

    I read the post 3 times, and my understanding is that they are going to start making the cells on a new line in an existing plant, and that this new factory is going to take up all of the massive growth they see coming. So I optimistically believe that there will be no problem with cell availability, assuming GM can pay them. I think we discussed this a long time ago.

    #20 Peter Stickler:

    Not in my lifetime.

    #23 ThombDbhomb:

    Me too.

    #36 CDAVIS:

    No problem. He can ask Bob Lutz.

    #37 old man:

    As to Koreans understanding the importance of buying their own products, and us being the only ones who do not, I could not agree with you more. If we don’t change our ways, our kids will pay the price.

    #39 Akio Toyoda:

    Two words. Max Hastings.

    #42 Guido:

    As to the Korean cars, amen.

    #47 nuclearboy:

    Based upon your list, I would say the “The Govt” has a better vision for the future than the previous GM “management”.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (1:33 pm)

    #51 noel park said
    As to Koreans understanding the importance of buying their own products, and us being the only ones who do not, I could not agree with you more. If we don’t change our ways, our kids will pay the price.
    —————————————–

    We also will not have a good future without making things that are globally competitive. Putting up walls just makes everyone poorer.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (1:33 pm)

    #43 Cap’n Jack
    Right on the money. Somehow I don’t think Whitacre is a MILF… still has the possibility of doing a good job though! :-D

    #45 Mitch
    LOL!!


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (1:36 pm)

    Here is another report from Bloomberg:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conewsstory&refer=conews&tkr=GM%3AUS&sid=a8V0dWSQEjko

    In this report they state:

    “The plant, which will start operations in the first half of next year, will be able to produce 50 million cells by 2015. The plant will also make hybrid-car batteries for Hyundai Motor Co., South Korea’s No. 1 automaker.”

    At 50 million cells per year, and with the Volt requiring ~250 cells per car, this equates to enough cells for 200,000 volts per year.

    Certainly some of these cells will go to other OEM’s, but by that time, LG may have a battery plant in the US.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (1:49 pm)

    @ #43 Cap’n Jack,

    >> What? I’m just sayn

    We should go wenching sometime. I’ll even spring for the rum.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (1:56 pm)

    In other news, the Prius probably can’t make Toyota profitable again by itself. They need to sell more Tundra trucks and Lexus sedans.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aWbYDMwZjsBA


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (2:01 pm)

    @LauraM 56

    “In other news, the Prius probably can’t make Toyota profitable again by itself. They need to sell more Tundra trucks and Lexus sedans.”

    Maybe because people will be buying their older versions and getting them modded for a “70MPH on battery” kit…

    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/06/10/picc-plug-in-prius-can-now-go-70-mph-on-battery-power/


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (2:02 pm)

    #56 LauraM
    Oh the irony eh! If GM needed to say sell a couple trucks to balance the books they would be declaired evil and incompetent!


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (2:03 pm)

    #49 Jim in PA

    “PS – I hear your mommy calling you. Your grilled cheese sandwich is ready.”

    I thought it was prince spaghetti ?!? (ok dating myself referencing that commercial


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (2:13 pm)

    #20 Pete Stickler.

    So how exactly does “Every American” going out and test driving and then buying a Korean car help the Volt cause or benefit our own ailing economy?

    Like it or not, all Americans are now invested in trying to revamp and rescue our own car companies, who by the way are making some pretty impressive cars now, too.

    Other than possibly making your employer stronger, it has no benefit to you either. Remember where you live.

    And also remember that South Korea has a nuclear-armed maniac as a next door neighbor. It could all change in one ugly weekend.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (2:14 pm)

    #52 RB

    I would agree if all other countrys removed their walls [import restrictions] Many like to bring up the depression of the 20-30s and point out how our import restrictions hurt us. THEY DID, but in that day we exported much more than we imported and as a result the importing countrys could hurt us. It is the other way around now.

    All I ask for is fair trade and then we sink or swim.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (2:18 pm)

    Wow! This thread is all over the place today……………

    Well, it appears that the battery availability problem is now a non-issue, so there should be no problem with ramping up production of the Volt for the 2012 model year. This, of course, assumes that the car will work as advertised, and the first 10K units sell out immediately, as we all assume they will.

    I refuse to get into the MILF discussion going on here! :)


  64. 64
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    Jun 10th, 2009 (2:34 pm)

    51: Noel Park

    The one group that is clearly more financially screwed up than the old GM is the US Govt.

    Each US household now owes over 500 Thousand dollars in Govt debt thanks to these nitwits. I don’t see how we will pay this back unless we devalue the $ to make this debt easier to payoff (and in the process devalue my retirement nestegg).

    GMs issues pale in comparison.


  65. 65
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    Jun 10th, 2009 (2:37 pm)

    #52 RB says:

    We also will not have a good future without making things that are globally competitive. Putting up walls just makes everyone poorer.

    ——————-

    The US designs and makes many things that are globally competitive. Unfortunately, we a)outsource the production (Apple, MIcrosoft, Texas Instruments, Amazon, Matel.) and b) other countries copy our intellectual property so we don’t get compensated. (Microsoft, Time Warner, Pfizer. Etc.)

    Additionally, a lot of consumption of foreign goods is funded by debt. Even if you personally don’t have any debt, other countries use their dollars to buy government and other bonds. That’s not a healthy trade arrangement.

    Also, about using competition to force companies to make globally competitive products, there’s an interesting book called “Bad Samaritans: The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism.” His basic theory is that the US is doing a disservice to emerging markets by forcing them to open their markets to free competition. But you can read between the lines to see the effect “free trade” is having on the US.


  66. 66
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    Jun 10th, 2009 (2:45 pm)

    There are plenty of fossil fuels left, but we don’t need to exhaust the last drop before we begin to explore alternatives (“beginning” is what the Volt is all about).

    The climate is changing because the climate is always changing. It’s what climates do. Man’s contribution to this change is not zero, but it has been vastly inflated for largely political reasons (enforced wealth redistribution = political). The Sun has far more influence (man’s contribution to the deteriorating health of the oceans is far greater than it is to climate directly; this is cause for concern over CO2 emissions, which are acidifying the water). Regardless of what you believe, will 5 million EVs on the road make any real difference? No; but again, it’s a good start.

    The main point of vehicle electrification has been, and will continue to be strategic, in the sense of being able to use more than one source of energy for transportation (with all the attendant benefits for our economy and freedom). This is where the benefits will be realized the fastest; and on this foundation, the issues of post-peak oil and environmental decay will be built, when they truly do become imperatives.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (3:03 pm)

    #61 old man

    Walls are going up on the American side and its hurting Americans at least as much as your trading partners. The New York Times had an article on this recently entitled ” The Peril of Buy American”.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/opinion/03weds1.html?_r=3&ref=opinion

    I agree that your federal goverment must make strong efforts to limit the onesided trade the U.S. has with several nations, especially China.
    Actions taken at the state and municipal level at limiting trade are a disaster. By insisting on strictly American made products, mutually beneficial trade connections are being destroyed. You can’t have allies in the world without open trade in both directions.

    Economically, Canada and the U.S. are so interconnected that we are effectively the same nation in that regard. The company I work for can no longer bid on many American contracts. A retaliatory measure taken by Canadian municipalities means that we may have millions of dollars in inventory from American suppliers that we either can not sell or easily replace. Who benefits? I see lots of sinking here, is that fair trade?


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (3:28 pm)

    More, from my #65:

    We who see the Volt as a good thing in itself, or as a strategically responsible move, will end up benefiting from some ‘post-peak oil’ and ‘global climate change’ sentiments, but we should also be aware that we risk sharing the baggage of those beliefs: Huge new oil deposits being discovered (off the coast of Brazil), and colder weather (due to the quietest solar maximum since the ’50s), could create a backlash against expensive “green” measures.

    ====

    I’ll be away from a computer for a few days, ya’ll have a nice weekend.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (3:29 pm)

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aWbYDMwZjsBA

    Interesting article Laura:

    “Toyota earns between 100,000 yen ($1,042) to 200,000 yen in operating profit on the sale of one Prius or about 7 to 12 percent of the profit it makes on the sale of a Lexus LS sedan or Tundra pickup trucks in the U.S., according to an estimate by Credit Suisse Securities (Japan) Ltd.”

    So now we know the profit on a Lexus or Tundra, it is $15k.. no wonder they were all crazy making big trucks.. it pays the bills.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (3:33 pm)

    #66 Mark H

    This is my last post on this subject.

    Fair trade is having or not having trade restrictions that mimick what ever each trading partner has. And I do agree with you regarding local governments having their own separate trade restrictions. Trade must be governed by the Federal government.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (3:39 pm)

    #50 Corvette Guy said:

    #6 Statik

    Sidenote for statik: Factory may actually come through with 2 or 3 Camaros this month. July looking up! Yeah!!!
    =================

    Maybe your curse is lifting, lol.

    The Oshawa plant is actually running a saturday shift now (first one starts this week), and they are starting to catch up. They were clipping at about 450 a day last I heard, so probably around 17,000 made so far (give or take).

    Random factoid: Ed Peper (random VP at GM) said they just passed 23,000 sold orders.

    As a side note: You probably know this…but still zip on the Summitt white they added, so if you do have orders for them they will be waiting awhile longer, they still aren’t planning to produce it until July (after the one week break/changeover).


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    N Riley

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (3:39 pm)

    Another step down the road. But what did the November 2010 date mean? Was that a mistake? What contract, if any, covers the current time period?


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (3:43 pm)

    I thought the contract between LG and GM was only 1 year, not 5 years…… wtf? And why does it start in Nov. 2010?


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (3:51 pm)

    #39 Akio

    Akio, that is Japanese for ass hole, isn’t it?


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (4:00 pm)

    #2 nuclearboy Says: We should see the Electric Hyundais in a few years… This will surely speed the wide spread deployment of batteries.
    ————————————————————————————–
    A Hyundai EREV would be great!


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (4:08 pm)

    Oil is over $70 per barrel. Now would be a good time to implement a floor tax on gas or oil. Setting a minimum price of $65 per barrel would do a lot to spur new investments in batteries and bio-fuels.


  77. 77
    HyperMiler

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (4:13 pm)

    # 47 nuclearboy

    > The Govt pushed to have 160,000 of the new Korean made Sparks built in the US.

    And GM may have to build Volt in Korea and import it back as the consequence of building Daewoos in the US. Nothing is for free.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (4:26 pm)

    Just wanted to note that Chrysler entered bankruptcy on April 30th, and now is heading for the exit on June 10th, less than 45 days after filing. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/chrysler-fiat-third-time-lucky This is well ahead of the 60 days projected by the administration, so I can’t think of any reason why the time schedule won’t be met. Many times people post that things can’t be done. Many times in life things don’t go according to plan, and so the nay-sayers look right. This is one of those times where things went according to plan. Hopefully, GMs ride through bankruptcy will be just as smooth.

    The only major obstacle left is a growing movement in Congress to save some dealerships. I guess I’ve been largely convinced that some dealerships need to close. Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail. http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0609/Bachmann_bemoans_gangster_government.html


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (4:29 pm)

    #69 old man

    Sorry about that. I didn’t mean to go off on you. It’s a touchy subject just now.
    I hope Hyundai does sell millions of electric cars … to the Chinese.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (4:43 pm)

    If the battery contract doesn’t start until November, 2010, GM won’t be able to have more than a few token Volts in showrooms by mid-November, 2010… or am I missing something?


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (5:07 pm)

    I think it is wise to have as many advanced battery suppliers on line as is possible. That way, there could be a capacity to greatly accelerate production of Voltec vehicles, so as to drive down costs more quickly.

    Rapidly expanding production is going to be necessary in order to reach more customers whom have already financially committed to go Voltec.

    Just this afternoon, I had a very long phone conversation with my business accounts manager at my credit union. I asked if the credit union would consider that the Voltec vehicles may possibly qualify for a lower interest rate as a unique financing category on its own.

    The reason I asked him to begin to examine this issue is that, of course, the credit union member will not be buying gas, brake jobs, air conditioner servicing every 24 months, 3 out of 4 oil changes go away, and, overall, for higher annual mileage driving that some members do (like me at 18,000/yr), the reduced annual cost of driving over the 5 year loan would be equivalent of $2,700 annual savings, or, $13,500.00 over the term of the loan.

    I also gave directions to this site, so that all credit union personnel could begin to become educated regarding the GM Voltec revolution. My excitement was infectious of course, and I expect that to get around rapidly. (I believe University Federal is the largest in the world. Other credit unions highly respect University Federal, and, may immediately adopt their findings of Voltec advanced creditworthiness as security).

    Dan Petit.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (5:07 pm)

    @MDDave 79

    LG Chem has other plants that can and does produce the same cells. That’s where they got their protype/test cells from in the current Mule’s and now integration vehicles. This plant wer’e talking about is for mass production of the cells GM will use and I think will be the primary plant for cell source of it’s type for GM. The other plants will probably be use IF they can’t meet demand.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (5:20 pm)

    #79 says If the battery contract doesn’t start until November, 2010, GM won’t be able to have more than a few token Volts in showrooms by mid-November, 2010… or am I missing something?
    _______________________________________________________

    I believe they already have a fairly big production capacity, and just because the contract doesn’t start until November doesn’t mean they can’t start making cells and selling them to GM. They probably just won’t be selling them in bulk.

    Also, no, GM isn’t going to have very many as of November 2010, that’s for sure, only 10,000 or something. LG Chem could probably make enough cells for 10,000 Volts with an oversize sneeze with this new factor adding to whatever capacity they already have.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (5:30 pm)

    #52 RB:

    I am not aware that the governments of Japan, Korea, et al, are doing any overt things to prevent US imports. I am just agreeing with old man that the people in those countries are smart enough to see where their own enlightened self interest lies. Their prosperity is directly tied to having positive trade balances, so they don’t shoot themselves in the feet by buying foreign goods. It may not even be that up front in their minds, but it is certainly in the culture.

    I am not advocating that the US government do anything. I am just saying that we need to look beyond the ends of our noses and consider our own enlightened self interest in our individual spending decisions.

    No less a personage than Warren Buffet, well known investor in BYD, BTW, has said repeatedly that our negative trade balance is going to diminsh us as a nation. I agree. So I am committed to do what little I can to minimize it. I even bought some tools from the Snap On guy today instead of Harbor Freight, LOL. Goes totally against my grain, but we gotta do it or perish.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (5:32 pm)

    #82 omnimoeish:

    Sounds right to me.

    LJGTVWOTR!! NPNS!


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (5:33 pm)

    The time between the Congressional hearings in December and the date when the Chrysler and GM companies entered bankruptcy were used to create the pre-packaged Bankruptcy filing, by lining up or accomplishing the things that had to be done in bankruptcy, otherwise.

    Renegotiated labor contracts with the CAW and UAW; identifying the dealers to be disenfranchised; working out the pension legacy problems; and arranging to have the VEBA accept securities instead of cash; and getting a majority of the bondholders to accept their haircut; were all accomplished BEFORE formally filling for bankruptcy.

    Senator Corker of Tennessee is to be commended for his wisdom and for his perspicacity and leadership in turning away from fgovernmental cash handouts and recognizing the fundamental need to clean the Balance sheets before these companies could be viable again. He almost singlehandedly put the government and the companies on to the course that Chrysler and GM are doing.

    With clean balance sheets, realistic business plans, removing brand suitable for a 60% market share bu simply too much for the reduced circumstance of a 20% share, and sizing for the present SAAR, means these highly-leveraged, high- fixed cost businesses will be rolling in profits, when the demand returns to even replacement levels.

    It took almost two decades to renovate and re-invigorate the US steel industry into a world leader once again. The auto industry can do this painful restructuring in under a year, thanks to Senator Corker, & Presidents Bush and Obama.

    Chrysler’s effort is completed, despite all the Cassandras predictions of doom. There is still lots to do with GM, but the course and precedent is clear. When these two return with their clean balance sheets, it is only a matter of time before Ford does something similar; but in Ford’s case, it should be a lot less severe and wrenching an undertaking.

    For the first time in 35 years, the American auto companies will be able to compete without having one hand tied behind their backs, due to legacy and labor costs, and inappropriate numbers of brands from a different time. No longer will they be forced to de-content their offerings, to cover these costs that competitors did no have to do.

    On this day of First Emergence, let us hail the Return of the American Auto Industry.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (5:42 pm)

    #80 Dan

    How about carbon credits to the loan companies for EV loans?

    PS: Some Shell stations in my area sell 10% Ethanol fuel. Would you agree that is NOT a good 87 octane fuel for the car?


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (6:02 pm)

    56 LauraM, from the link:
    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aWbYDMwZjsBA
    “What should worry it [Toyota that is] now is Lexus and high-end customers may shift to driving a Prius”

    That is exactly what will happen to GM if they bring out the Volt as their only Voltec drive model. I would do the same if I was about to buy a GM car and the Volt was in the same price ballpark, I’d be crazy to buy a different model when I know that the Volt is going to have far better resale value, require far less maintenance and be sooooo much cooler a vehicle to own.

    How to avoid this? Put Voltec drive system into every GM brand and every model offered. There will be no siphoning profits from yourself and you will, in fact, be siphoning profits from Lexus and BMW and all the other comparable car and truck makers.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (6:04 pm)

    Absolutely I like the idea of carbon credits. There may even be a large incentive for Texans to buy some of the first EREVs etc. Getting the EREV’s out there ASAP is important. As much as I enjoy relating everything practical to Voltec, I could talk 14 hours a day about it, as everyone here likely knows.

    I’m not generally a fan of ethanol. However, strange positive things can happen when those brilliant chemists over at Shell find merit somehow in using it in small amounts within gasoline. Likely, when Voltec comes out, Shell may decide to have a special custom fuel chemistry for EREV in the form of that 87 octane, if they have not already perfected it ahead of time.

    They have also done something with Nitrogen. Nitrogen generally has a stabilizing characteristic to it, and, if there is any way that less physical chemicals can be used in anything, (less to settle-out as sludge and turn fuel stale) then that is just more carbon savings we can count on.

    If carbon is kept from accumulating in cylinders there is far less likely that carbon glowing/pre-ignition occurs. Also, if the valves are kept clean, then each cylinder breathes exactly the same volumetric efficiency for more even combustion when or if you eventually do need the Genset to excite.

    Dan


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    RB

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (6:51 pm)

    #61 old man said
    I would agree if all other countrys removed their walls [import restrictions] Many like to bring up the depression of the 20-30s and point out how our import restrictions hurt us. THEY DID, but in that day we exported much more than we imported and as a result the importing countrys could hurt us. It is the other way around now.
    All I ask for is fair trade and then we sink or swim.

    ————————————————————-

    If we build walls, what will happen is that the prices for everything now imported will go up and quality will go down. As a country we will be poorer, although those industries that are protected will be better off, at everyone else’s expense.

    In the case of the Volt, what benefit would occur if we said Volt had to use US made batteries? The price of the batteries and the car would increase, delivery would be slower, and fewer people would have the opportunity to buy one. Or, we could just do without. Korea needs us, and we need them, to get this done.

    In the US, we see and are more mindful of things we import, and we don’t see what others buy from us, in part because we aren’t looking. But they do, and we do, and we all are better off because of that.

    I understand the spirit of “All I ask for is fair trade…”, but the reality is that everyone wishes to use the government to protect their own business. The new GM Board Chair will be at work immediately to get news rules, regulations, and tariffs in place to help GM. (GM has been extremely successful until now in getting a tariff wall around trucks and big SUVs, and that is a good part of why GM has emphasized those products.) Whatever they do, it will make all GM products more expensive for those of us who consider buying them.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (6:55 pm)

    #78 MarkH

    You did not upset me! I just got tired of reading what I was posting and knew if I was tired of it so was everybody else.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (6:59 pm)

    #83 noel park said
    I am not advocating that the US government do anything. I am just saying that we need to look beyond the ends of our noses and consider our own enlightened self interest in our individual spending decisions.
    —————————————–

    I understand, and I often do likewise for basically the same reasons. It is at best a temporary step, though. Snap-On has to make better tools at lower prices than Harbor Freight, or most people are going to make a different decision.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (7:08 pm)

    #66 MarkH Says, ” …Walls are going up on the American side and its hurting Americans at least as much as your trading partners … Economically, Canada and the U.S. are so interconnected that we are effectively the same nation in that regard. The company I work for can no longer bid on many American contracts. A retaliatory measure taken by Canadian municipalities means that we may have millions of dollars in inventory from American suppliers that we either can not sell or easily replace.”

    Vaughn Palmer (reporter from Vancouver Sun) was talking about this on the radio (KUOW “Weekday”) today. He mentioned that, with the trade surplus, retaliation would hurt Canada more than it would hurt the US. He also mentioned provisions in NAFTA that allow local exceptions to “buy domestic” policies.

    http://www.kuow.org/program.php?id=17731


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    Nelson

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (7:21 pm)

    Wow I can see the Movie description now:
    Oil cartel bad guy’s contract with terrorist to blow up Koreas lithium ion battery plants and leave trail pointing to North Korea, in order to derail the production of electric cars. US Government gets pulled into the conflict because of Nuclear weapons and missiles being tested in North Korea. This forces automotive industry to use old battery tech owed by Oil carte.

    NPNS!


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (7:23 pm)

    #89 RB Says, ” …In the US, we see and are more mindful of things we import, and we don’t see what others buy from us, in part because we aren’t looking. But they do, and we do, and we all are better off because of that.”

    “Better off?!”

    I would agree with your simplistic economic explanation if we had truly free markets, but our trading partners have protected and subsidized their industries for decades, resulting in obscene trade deficits and the steady decline of American industry. This naive assumption that the rest of the world will play by our rules is pushing us towards becoming just another third-world consumer economy.


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    Lithium Sulfur 3x

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (7:35 pm)

    Scientists at the University of Waterloo have designed a lithium-sulfur battery that is capable of 3 times the power of lithium-ion batteries with equal volume while remaining both lighter and cheaper to produce.

    FYI, using this new technology the Tesla Roadster would have a 730+ mile range ! Range Anxiety my ass you Volt wimps.


  97. 97
    Michael C. Robinson

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (7:36 pm)

    Lithium is not a major U.S. commodity, It is a Chinese and
    Chilean commodity.

    As far as the global cooling verses global warming comments,
    I don’t want an ice age any more than I want to see global temperatures rise further. Either way, whether the Earth dramatically cools or it just gets hotter that’s nothing but
    trouble.

    Batteries will NEVER be the answer until rare materials are eliminated from them, the power density is increased 7 fold,
    the size stays the same or drops, the weight per kwh drops,
    and the cost drops by a factor of 4 or 5+. I don’t see
    everything that needs to happen to make BEVs a practical replacement for gasoline and diesel powered vehicles
    happening.

    Nickel metal hydride batteries paired with a fuel cell and a
    hydrogen source are a MUCH better way to go. Nickel is
    far more abundant than Lithium. Hydrogen can be acquired
    in many environmentally friendly ways and the list is growing.
    With hydrnol, hydrogen can be easily and safely transported
    and used.

    I’m sorry to see that GM is deluding itself thinking that the
    Volt gas electric hybrid will be popular in 2015. In 2015,
    the Honda FCX Clarity and other fuel cell cars will be
    available for sale.

    Hydrogen, once you figure out how to handle and acquire it, is
    the most abundant gas on the planet that can be used for fuel.
    The ocean is full of hydrogen where 300 billion gallons of water
    could easily be drawn from it and electrolyzed.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (7:43 pm)

    96 #
    Michael C. Robinson

    You convinced me that H2 is the future. Thank you and have a nice day!


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (7:47 pm)

    MDDave Says:
    If the battery contract doesn’t start until November, 2010, GM won’t be able to have more than a few token Volts in showrooms by mid-November, 2010… or am I missing something?

    ——————————————

    The way I have interpreted the Volt schedule (from the 50 different ways we’ve heard it), is that they will start taking orders in Nov 2010, and will probably have some Volts in showrooms, possibly test drives. So with the battery contract starting about the time Volt orders start going into production, makes sense to me.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (7:53 pm)

    HOT OFF THE TECHNICAL PRESS!

    New battery technology of the future will combine two polarized, Lithium crystals, in a poly-phase, diametric orientation. This new crystal will generate sufficient energy and is believed to be the most likely candidate for intergalactic space travel.

    The new chemically bonded, dual lithium crystals have been referred to as Di-Lithium. This new crystal could be the holy grail we have all been awaiting!


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (8:33 pm)

    #99

    The new chemically bonded, dual lithium crystals have been referred to as Di-Lithium. This new crystal could be the holy grail we have all been awaiting!
    _____________

    !00 hoo waaa

    The di-lithium crystals are great news just what we’ve been waiting for.

    …but cap’m I need just a litil more tiime! Scotty we don’t have any more time! Computer what are the latest test results from the intergalactic battery center at WARREN, Mich.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (9:19 pm)

    #41
    We are far from running out of fossil fuels. We could have 100 years of fuel from oil left at the current consumption rate. There is no man made global warming proven to exist. Most data actually shows global cooling and how little impact man has. Global warming is a power play by government to control your life. stop drinking the Kool aid long enough to review the facts and data yourself.
    ————-
    I wonder why we have so many Global Warming Deniers here. They prefer to listen to Rush Limbaugh and Dick Cheney instead of scientists including thousands of nobel laureates. They also act as if they know how to interpret raw data.

    This guy is using the #4 most used talking point by Deniers.

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php


  103. 103
    jeffhre

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (9:31 pm)

    LauraM “Bad Samaritans: The Myth of Free Trade and the Secret History of Capitalism.” His basic theory is that the US is doing a disservice to emerging markets by forcing them to open their markets to free competition. But you can read between the lines to see the effect “free trade” is having on the US.
    ______________________

    I have believed something similar to this for a while now. It just seems counter to the way lower tier economies can mature and develop to say rationalize your economy and compete on the worlds markets…RIGHT NOW!!!

    It runs counter to the way the US economy developed, and it seems that Japan after WWII, China and the so called Asian tigers get that. They’ve been able to exploit their strengths. Europe gets that (Airbus). The US gets it domestically for strategically valued elements (agriculture).

    I think it would be great if we lived in a world without walls and people could live progressively better and move easily onto better economic levels. But every country seems to practice one philosophy while endorsing another.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (9:40 pm)

    Noel Park #83

    I tried to do the same thing for the last two days with cameras. I looked at the only company I know that is American and makes cutting edge photo stuff. Looking at reviews, their stuff had great features for the price. But the products were always bigger, bulkier, slower and harder to use.

    Then I realized the output quality level I needed was not only an illusion with them, but they had to abandon the high end market altogether after discontinuing every model I would consider.

    Wow, disappointing and a big loss of time!


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    koz

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (9:41 pm)

    On the buying domestic vs buying foreign:

    A $ spent on local goods is not the same as a $ spent on non-local domestic goods which is not the same as a $ spent on foreign goods. The further the goods travel to get to you the further the $ travels away from you.

    There is more to a purchase than the simple transaction of $ for good/service. Some people say to stop being selfish in your purchases by buying local. I say start being more selfish and keep the $ closer to you. The stronger the businesses are that surround you, the better they can support you and your bussiness.

    Paying for goods is, in a way, a vote of support for the supplying company and it’s practices. Sure, the “home” companies still need to make competitive products at competitive prices but they should enjoy a homefield advantage even when the foreign competitor is fighting fair. Some companies and countries don’t fight fair. In the case of unfair countries, it’s the governments responsibility to level the playing field. Sitting on ideology doesn’t do much to fullfill this responsibility.


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (9:43 pm)

    JEC #99,

    “…new chemically bonded, dual lithium crystals”

    It’s time to access Scotty-Trade to purchase di-lithium futures. And sell pork belly futures, di-lithium is the real bacon.

    Don’t disrupt the flow!

    =D~


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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:04 pm)

    #101
    nataraj

    #41
    We are far from running out of fossil fuels. We could have 100 years of fuel from oil left at the current consumption rate.
    _______________________
    With a few key assumptions this may be true.

    The rate of increased use stays at the level of 2008 and does not return the the levels of 2007 and earlier.

    The financial hierachy of the energy business is radically restructured. The level of output in August 2008 after record gains in prices still appears to be far to low to keep up with world demands. Especially when considering the growing needs of BRIC’s.

    The rising price of fuels and the ability to contribute to disruptions in the economy that lead to economic collapse of the type seen in the ’70s or in 2008 would be considered acceptable “collateral damage”.

    Keep in mind fossil fuels have been phenomenally cheap in the past. At first oil was just scooped up from pools in the ground in Ohio. Then pipes were put in the ground and oil leapt into barrels in Pennsylvania, California, Texas, and Alaska.

    Now oil is found far offshore and recovered by high tech floating platforms that use computer controlled jets to keep them in position off the coast of Louisiana.

    A hundred years of oil may yet exist, but it won’t be cheap or easy to get it to our shores. Unless you consider ripping up virgin soil and leaving gaping tar pits in Alberta the cheap and easy mark to exploit.


  108. 108
    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (10:09 pm)

    Another “breakthrough” in battery technology?

    http://dvice.com/archives/2009/06/nanotech-breakt.php

    Just saw this one. Interesting.


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    CDAVIS

     

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    Jun 10th, 2009 (11:56 pm)

    ______________________________________________________
    The price of oil burst through the $71 a barrel mark today [Wed Jun 10th]…
    Predictions of $250 a barrel:

    Source:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jun/10/oil-market-reserves

    ______________________________________________________


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    Jun 11th, 2009 (12:06 am)

    #87 CS Guy

    Actually, the best solution would be to produce the converj first. That way anyone who wanted Voltec would have to pay Cadillac prices. At least for the first few months. However, since that’s no longer an option, GM should still green light the converj, and produce it as soon after the Volt as they possibly can. Anyone interested in a luxury car would pick the converj over the Volt. It’s gorgeous.

    #102 jeffhre

    I agree that developing nation’s are better off in the long run if they restrict the inflow of foreign goods to help their native industries. Japan is certainly a success story. The problem is that when multiple governments subsidize their industries, the world is flooded with excess supply, and no one can compete without government aid. And that’s in no one’s best interests.

    Also, unbalanced trade agreements are bleeding the US dry. The $700 billion per year trade deficit happened for a reason. Yes, I want the US to help out poorer nations. But I’m not willing to get into debt to them to make them better off. And poorer nations have a huge built in advantage in cheap labor costs.

    But cutting off trade with developing countries is not the answer. Trade is an important engine for economic growth and innovation. Without trade, everyone is worse off. Besides, at this point, the world economy is so intertwined that if everyone threw up walls–the supply train interruptions alone would cause immense economic devastation.

    The point is to strike a balance and come to trade agreements that make both parties better off. Unlike our current trade agreements with China, Japan, and South Korea.


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    Jun 11th, 2009 (12:45 am)

    Some how or other we are not getting the straight goods on the “true” cost of these cells .
    It costs about the same to make these cells in Korea as it does to make them in China .
    Why the big mark up in price , how many thousand cells are being shipped in a container which only costs $1000. to ship to its destination in USA ?
    The actual dollar value and the perceived dollar value are far apart .
    Why is the consumer being ripped off for so much perceived dollar value ?
    You can get a five passenger lithium powered car made in China ( which is just a stones throw away from Korea ) that has a 500 km driving range on a single charge for less than $18000.
    Same size , same power , same quality . Whats going on anyway .
    This needs to be looked into very seriously .
    Don’t give me this BS about Chinese quality , you cant make battery cells this sophisticated in a back yard factory .
    We are becoming a society that is too complacent and willing to accept everything we read . Show me the real thing so I can touch it and feel it so I know that it is real , otherwise it is all imagination , smoke and mirrors .


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    Herm

     

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    Jun 11th, 2009 (9:08 am)

    #110 Keith Says:
    Some how or other we are not getting the straight goods on the “true” cost of these cells .
    It costs about the same to make these cells in Korea as it does to make them in China .
    ………………………………….
    Korean lithium cells have a far better reputation of quality than Chinese cells, also there is a warranty issue adding to the cost, IMO. I have bought chinese lithium cells in the past and lets say I dont buy the cheapest cells anymore.

    We know that LG is selling cells to GM at $500 per kwh, and that GM derates these cells 50%.. there are Chinese manufacturers that will sell LiFe cells at around $300 .. but you also need a more those of those cells since they have a lower voltage.


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    HyperMiler

     

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    Jun 11th, 2009 (10:47 am)

    #110 Keith Says:

    > You can get a five passenger lithium powered car made in China that has a 500 km driving range on a single charge for less than $18000.

    Where?

    > Same size , same power , same quality .

    What same quality?

    > Whats going on anyway .

    There are few places in the world that can produce Li-Ion cells that last more than 10 years. China isn’t one of those places, and surprisingly, nor is Japan(i-MIEV has a battery life of 5 years).


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    EVO

     

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    Jun 11th, 2009 (12:28 pm)

    http://rumors.automobilemag.com/6553289/green/hitachi-builds-fourth-generation-lithium-ion-battery/index.html

    So, LG provides 9.9% and Hitachi gen 3 provides 90.9% of gen 1 Voltec power pack cells, for total of 110,000 gen 1 power packs with gen 2 using Hitachi gen 4?

    hmmm, methinks that we’ll be seeing some more Voltec product line announcements this next year from GM (if it can rinse through BK as rapidly as that other company did), so that we have a nice domestic mainstream electric drive product mix to join the forthcoming uber-cute Mitsubishi I Meows and uber-utility Subaru Stellars and Porsche Design/Engineer Codas on the road.

    I think that vehicle makers finally get that plug and play power pack performance/price upgrades are the way to go. Welcome to the electronic app store world for vehicles, y’all, like Apple or Verizon. Show the way, AT&T (er, I mean GM).

    Then again, the url does say rumor, so I’ll believe something when I drive it, park it in my garage, and see the registration with my name on it, like I do with my current high performance electric motorcycle.


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    EVO

     

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    Jun 11th, 2009 (12:39 pm)

    I suggest we stop using gen and start using v., the ubiquitous electronics sales convention, such as Volt v.1 Hitachi v.3, Volt v.1 LG v.1, and Volt v.2. Hitachi v.4., etc.

    Has this topic already been beaten to death on this site and I’m late to the game?


  116. [...] 06/08/09 According to gm-volt.com website they are using LG Chemical’s batteries and cells. http://gm-volt.com/2009/06/10/lg-che…ild-one-in-us/ [...]


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    Sudesh Satnarain

     

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    Jun 23rd, 2009 (12:56 am)

    Hi .
    I would like assistance in regards to setting up an assembly plant in South Africa for Lithium batteries that will be utilised by the new generation electric cars.
    My contact details are as follows :
    Sudesh Satnarain
    satnars@telkom.co.za
    031 363 1585
    083 324 1585


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    Sudesh Satnarain

     

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    Jun 23rd, 2009 (5:01 am)

    .
    I would like assistance in regards to setting up an assembly plant in South Africa for Lithium batteries that will be utilised by the new generation electric cars.
    My contact details are as follows :
    Sudesh Satnarain
    satnars@telkom.co.za
    031 363 1585
    083 324 1585