AND 
GM, Magna, Opel, and Voltec: a Tangled Web is Woven
The GM bankruptcy is independent of its foreign subsidiaries. This includes GM Europe which makes Opel products.
GM Europe has itself been rescued through a German government brokered deal selling portions of the company to Canadian auto parts maker Magna and Russian lender Sberbank. Magna will own 20%, Sberbank 35%, GM 35%, and Opel auto workers 10%.
Magna CEO Frank Stronach has strongly voiced his plans to move his company into electrification of the automobile, and indeed the company is already known to be partnering with Ford to bring their EV Focus to market in 2012.
“About two and a half years ago we made a commitment to be in the electric car business in a very serious way,” said Stronach. “First of all we’d like to supply all car companies with electrical systems but we also have the intention to build electric cars.”
And in time says Stronach “I am very confident that Magna will be amongst the leaders in selling and building electric cars.”
Where it gets interesting and potentially threatening to the Volt’s competitiveness is that the fact that the Opel Ampera is the sister car to the Chevy Volt and therefore contains the same proprietary Voltec drivetrain. Production of the Ampera remains on track for a European launch in 2012.
A consideration for speculation is whether Magna’s ownership position could give them access to proprietary Voltec intellectual property and competitive information which the company could then use in either building its own electric cars or those of other automakers like Ford.
“Certainly it would be too early to make any judgments about that, but I don’t think it would make an impact,” said Jon Lauckner, GM’s VP of product development. “Magna is acting as a supplier to Ford, so we are going to have to wait and see, quite frankly we haven’t had any discussion on it.”
Emails to representatives at Magna have gone unanswered.
Magna expects to close the deal by September, and Opel Chairman Carl Peter-Forster told Reuters they write “a lot of details of Canadian auto parts group Magna International’s deal to buy the company still needed to be clarified.”
151 Responses to “GM, Magna, Opel, and Voltec: a Tangled Web is Woven”
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:03 am
Ein ! Go GM ! Go Volt !
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:04 am
Why would Magma give competitive info to a competitor?
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:06 am
Opels built in canada?? The more jobs in north america te better. Aswell as the more eletric cars being built the better.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:16 am
..A Tangled Web is Woven…
——————————————————-
“Oh what a tangled web we weave, When first we practise to deceive!”
Sir Walter Scott, Marmion, Canto vi. Stanza 17
/Literary allusions are fun
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:25 am
Now that Magna has Voltec, they aren’t going to give it away. A series hybrid is not that complex anyway. Ford could do one if they wanted, but they prefer to copy Toyota and build BEV’s.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:39 am
I would hope that GM has protected its intellectual property re: the Volt — most likely, the software that oversees the complex battery management system.
It would then be a matter of licensing the right to use it to others — much as Toyota is trying to do with the Prius synergy drive.
Could be another revenue source for GM.
And let’s face it: Will GM have the only E-REVs on the market? No. Fisker and others are jumping on that bandwagon.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:41 am
#5 Jason
A series hybrid is not that complex anyway.
——————————-
I disagree. I think it’s a simple concept with the proverbial devil in the details. That’s why GM’s been taking its time with the Volt development.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:42 am
An interesting nyt article appears today regarding GM’s outlook “Even Under a Cloud, G.M. Is Predicting Sunshine”. You might call it statik with better spelling (smile twice).
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/03/business/economy/03leonhardt.html?_r=1&hp
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:56 am
I hope you Americans will not be difficult for your new Canadian masters…at least you can all stop learning Mandarin for awhile. (You might have to start learning french as a technicality…but don’t worry, we never actually use it for any practical reason)
/all your base are belong to us
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:56 am
I love Canada.
It is such a beautiful country.
I look forward to driving my Volt across it someday.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:01 am
#9 Static,
Now we must unleash our secret plan to invade Canada at last. The south park writers were ahead of their time…
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:03 am
As with most conquests, the wealth acquired is dimished and would only revive through good stewardship, which is unlikely, as good stewards don’t conquer, they create.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:06 am
I guess it is a good thing I learned Canadian in my youth…..
Hey you hosers! Take off, eh?
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:12 am
//Canadians: All your [manufacturing] base are belong to us.
Lol. Be kind masters please!
In any event, I hope Europe gets it’s Ampera.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:27 am
Intellectual property infringements can be readily and immediately spotted by the producers of it. So, there really is not going to be any problem here from my perspective, because the hardware commitments are so extremely entrenched, that the software really is a very secondary concern.
While the consumer sees software sold in retail outlets every day, the proprietary values of industrial applications such as in EV’s can and do get outmoded if not in months, then in weeks, as more insightful approaches to doing just about anything become conceived.
The great news here regards the economies of scale that would help all OEM’s make our Voltec vehicle’s more affordable. We have run out of time in the war against carbon. We do not have the luxury of contentiousness for small reasons. We have not any choice but to work together as professionals. Let past losses remain there in the past.
Having the finest industry standards to prevent more carbonization (manufacturing of replacement “anythings”), is what is critical here.
Whoever has the strongest designs and intellectual property are the very ones who must advance, be allowed to advance, and to have the environment select them to cause others to advance.
And, be somehow compensated for those advancement considerations.
Everything will work out well. We just have to be strictly open-minded, and yes, even environmentally-pragmatic for an easier transition to green electric motoring for everyone.
I just insist that exceptional care be taken to protect the buyer of anything new in the product line-ups with very long warranties.
The electric vehicle buyer ought to buy at least the 100,000 mile warranty if one is not already provided by the new propulsion system OEM.
I would be really happy to be able to see a 150,000 mile warranty on new components which have no publicly-known MTBF (Mean Time Before Failure), so that owners will not have to be concerned for 150,000 miles regarding new technologies.
Dan Petit Austin TX
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:35 am
With GM still holding 35%, they also get access the other way to Magna’s batteries, additional engineering resources, and potentially good deals on parts…
Works both ways IMO
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:43 am
Homer: “Canada?…. you mean America Jr.?”
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:53 am
Belinda is the new CEO of OPEL?
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:55 am
Things sure are getting complicated! Now, all those that fear world domination by the Canadians, please stand up.
The last impression I had about Canadians and EVs is that the Canadian government was fighting tooth and nail against Zenn. Did they finally OK the sale of a very environmentally clean vehicle made by one of their very own Canadian companies? No? Yes?
Canada is more of an oil country than we are! I sure hope they don’t give those boys any trouble and resist EV research and development. Who Killed the Electric Car 2.0? The Canadians! I’ll get my popcorn for that one.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:01 am
I asked the question on the GMEurope Blog and got no answer so far.
I’m glad that Magna got the deal, they implication in EVs is great.
Statik @9, Magna est aussi une importante firme autrichienne fondée avec des capitaux Daimler, ainsi la boucle est bouclée … et le français n’est pas qu’une technicalité. Amitiés,
JC
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:21 am
Mortisha… That’s French!
—Gomez Addams
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:24 am
GM doesn’t need to worry about Magna syphoning off volt technology. GM needs to worry about Magna ramping up volume sales of BEV’s before GM’s even got one to sell.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:25 am
Fascinating picture at the top of this thread — thanks, Lyle.
I’m not sure I understand its deeper meaning.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:26 am
Statik, it’s a good thing I already know French…
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:33 am
Lets see…you can’t tell the men from the women, underneath all those layers of clothing (same as burkas in the Mideast), American military vehicles cannot operate in such cold extremes (like German tanks in Siberia), bottomless creavasses hidden beneath fresh snow create natural barriers to troops and equipment, and all the signs are in French (a stroke of evil brilliance). Few Americans can actually read French – just the names of the French wines.
Then there are the rumored Canadian black-ops programs. Mind-controlled grizzly bears and Canadian moose could decimate American troops at night, using only starlight to see. Trained penguins carrying mines could destroy any warships sent against Canada.
Let’s welcome our new French-speaking masters.
————————————–
(Yeah, I also thought that this was an extremely boring thread. Another slow Volt news day, apparently).
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:37 am
RB @ 23,
A good chunk of that Ford Focus BEV is Stronach’s (Magna’s).
5 years from now, this is probably the most abundant electric car you’ll see on the roads. (imo, of course). This is one of a few (the only?) product that has price right potential along with an established manufacturing chain lining up to do it.
I’d give the imiev a second place but wonder if Mitsubishi won’t have too many sales elsewhere in the world (i.e. Japan, europe, Australia) too be able to bring any volume to the U.S.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:39 am
“A federal appeals court agreed late Tuesday night to hear an appeal from a group of lenders seeking to block the sale of Chrysler’s assets, a move that could delay the automaker’s exit from bankruptcy proceedings.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/03/AR2009060300048.html?hpid=topnews
Life gets complicated.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:41 am
#26 carcus1 on interpreting the photograph at the top of the post
——————
Thank you — very informative.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:42 am
#35 Bonjour, Grump!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:44 am
Oh you silly Americans are a funny bunch.
Toyota and Honda quality is up and Chevy is way down.
I am getting weary of watching the soap opera “As GM Turns” play out in the American theatre. Toyota has offered to help the ailing GM with a very generous offer to give Chevy their much need advanced hybrid technology used in our popular Prius. GM, swallow your weak pride, and accept our offer. We are trying to help you recover from that hard fall. I will now have a nice breakfast. Tomorrow will be an even better day. Cheer up you sad Americans.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:45 am
Non, le francais n’est certainement pas qu’une technicalite – on l’utilise tous les jours en Amerique du Nord. D’ou l’expression “excuse my french”!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:48 am
Love that photo. The Ford Fusion Hybrid totally rocks. It gives the Prius a serious run for the money. Get yours today, you won’t be sorry and you can thank me later.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:52 am
#25 The Grump
Don’t forget, we depend on Canada as a source of foreign oil. Statik (a Canadian) said in # 9, “all your base are belong to us.” Al Qaeda means “the base.” So, I think we have a link between Canada and Al Qaeda. I’ve also heard that Canada has WMDs (insert joke here; W____ M_____ D_____s).
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:55 am
On Stronach.
This is a self made Bazillionaire who’s had this company since 1957. Magna is a major chunk of U.S. automotive manufacturing (more employees than Chrysler, almost as many as Ford U.S.).
He is fully committed to electric cars.
He’s the biggest auto Chief with the most commitment to electric cars to this point.
If you’re an EV fan, this guy is your biggest bestest friend at the top.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_International
http://www.thestar.com/Business/article/644198
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June 3rd, 2009 at 8:55 am
#31 Silvio said:
Non, le francais n’est certainement pas qu’une technicalite – on l’utilise tous les jours en Amerique du Nord. D’ou l’expression “excuse my french”!
—————–
Used…but not needed, we do it just to annoy people who don’t speak it.
/just kidding
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:00 am
The only piece missing is to get the Chevy brand back to Canada
(yup Chevrolet was Canadian before being bought by GM).
=======================
statik Says:
June 3rd, 2009 at 6:56 am .I hope you Americans will not be difficult for your new Canadian masters…at least you can all stop learning Mandarin for awhile. (You might have to start learning French as a technicality…but don’t worry, we never actually use it for any practical reason)
/all your base are belong to us
=========================
All depends where you are isn’t, the country doesn’t start and end with the Ontario border
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:03 am
I do say, there are indeed English in Canada! I never met any English there that were all that enthused by the French flippant disregard for them. NO fondness for the metric dictatorship put on them, disarming citizens, lack of freedom of speech, Trudeau and his imperial liberal dictat to the repopulation of Canada with aliens (the Grays do what they wish anyway), all the supposed bilingual bs (in Quebec I HAD to read and speak French!)… pardon, STATIC. Nuclearboy has the South Park idea fluttering about. Our last attempt at Canada was rather done poorly. Commander Benedick Arnold came back in a most poor disposition for anymore setbacks.
I am surprised that the OBAMA Groupen did not sell GM to the Chinese Communists like they just did piecemeal with HUMMER which is connected to Cadillac. After all there are NO borders and its all JUST about the money. Hummm, so that is what our “representatives” have doing to us. Saturn is next so don’t give up on Manderan lessons.———-Higgens
PS: Right you are fellow Texan about Canada and oil but it is really worldwide like I’ve pontificated about from here in Houston and Carcus1 has with his informative e-site about oil and ownership.——–down boys!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:08 am
I wonder what Canadian women look like????
Canada with a bunch of jobs………will work for food here……errr…..for BEER!!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:08 am
Well, thank goodness Canada became our 51st State, or else we would be in serious competition.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:12 am
“Magna will own 20%, Sberbank 35%, GM 35%, and Opel auto workers 10%”
How much power will any single one of these groups have w/out a majority stake? Not sure how they will find a direction, no matter how much CEO’s push.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:14 am
#20 Jean-Charles Jacquemin said:
Statik @9, Magna est aussi une importante firme autrichienne fondée avec des capitaux Daimler, ainsi la boucle est bouclée … et le français n’est pas qu’une technicalité. Amitiés,
JC
=================
Yeah, that is the main reason that they got the deal I think, and why Magna is for sure the lead in the new re-org…because of Magna’s Steyr Fahrzeugtechnik AG subsidiary, and of course Franks home ties/political connects to Austria (guess you call him Franz). The German government seemed very sensitive about the pedigree of the company coming in.
It was however one of the ugliest negotiations I have ever witnessed in this industry (didn’t really want to get into it here though as it happened…polluting the threads and all, but you probably followed it relatively close).
/passez une bonne journée
…hope everyone knows/assumes I was just kidding in #9, same goes for ribbing the french language, I should have put up a disclaimer probably
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:16 am
If you buy a part of a company you may or may not get access to that company’s proprietary technology. It all depends on how the purchase is negotiated. If I buy a share of Microsoft I don’t automatically get their source code. If I buy 50%+1 shares of Microsoft, however, I get everything.
There are many times companies will buy a large stake in another company. They usually get a seat on the board and a say in the large scale decisions but they don’t automatically get any licenses. That being said. The terms of any license agreement would probably be quite favorable to a company that owns 39%.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:16 am
I guess no one wants to talk about the Chinese automaker that bought Hummer? I am happy for all parties involved – it sounds like everyone lands on their feet, except the UAW, bondholders, dealerships and GM retirees …
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:19 am
Since the government wants electric cars to be the future (regardless of the customer) what is to stop them from saying ‘for the good of the people we want everyone to have the Volt tech’? They do own 60% of the company… they can force their will in whatever way they want.
Scary for GM, huh?
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:25 am
#44 Adrian
Scary? …Only to the fearful. RUN! The gubmint is going to get you!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:28 am
Deals like this certainly will lead to a confusing and possibly very competitive market place. Maybe the new government motors auto company will license the Voltec system to Opel and Magna. That way they could make money on every vehicle produced using the technology. Better yet, if it works like our normal government research departments they will just leave the information out on an open server that every government and company in the world could access and get it completely free. Then we could give that department head a promotion and make him a cabinet member and later he could be elected governor of his state and even run for president. Sound familiar?
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:34 am
CaptJack@38
They all look just like this . .
hhttp://farm2.static.flickr.com/1203/898247699_6b4f79eb47_o.jpg
…. and the beer’s free!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:36 am
LWesson@37
Hey Higgins,
Let those dogs out! They can run down the beach whilst you enjoy a spot of Earl Grey.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:41 am
#47 add,
Ok, guess i screwed up the link. Just google “Miss Molson” and you can pick out the one you like best.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:42 am
Statik @41
Thanks Statik, you are right about the negociations.
The Opel website – if you have observed it closely those last weeks – is changing from week to week without any comment nor news, but it is no more GM-style (just a little GM Europe icon in the lower right corner). We are awaiting a post from Carl-Peter Forster anytime soon, see : http://drivingconversations.gmblogs.com/2009/06/where-to-find-the-latest-info.html
I was just teasing you about french as a technicality, I think french is full of nasty technicalities that discourage any foreigner to learn the language.
JC
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:45 am
The french language has never made much headway in the western half of Canada. This could be a tough thread to follow. Fortunately, thanks to Trudeau, all our commercial packaging is bilingual. All I need to do is grab a cereal box and use it as a Rosetta Stone. If Statik says anything about ‘a nutritious breakfast with 4 ounces of milk’ I’ll be so on top of that.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:52 am
Capt @ #38 – “I wonder what Canadian women look like?”
Your to do list for today: Get out Playboy stash. Note the number of entrants from Canada. Call buddies who have spent drunken weekends in Vancouver strip clubs. Begin researching required legal steps to obtain Canadian residency. Prepare for six months of winter.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 9:58 am
Following up on Carcus1 at #34, one big problem for the German government in evaluating a bailout for Opel was that the IP for all the manufacturing processes belonged to GM. Not only that, but the IP was fully encumbered because it was used to secure the GM bondholders.
Not sure where this stands at the moment but it’s unlikely that Magna gets any proprietary interest in Voltec technology simply because of this acquisition. The big question is what technology it can license.
But as Carcus1 suggests, since EVs will not be viable for quite a while, if you believe that E-REV is the best alternative you should hope that GM licenses Voltec on generous terms so the technology gets adopted as widely as possible.
#27 RB — This political grandstanding aka “Indiana pension fund” appeal was expected. The guy behind it is a Republican trying to make a name for himself, which is obvious from the fact that the legal costs will obviously outweigh any possible gain. Nice way to use other people’s money. The order bypassing the district court, and the unbelievable brief schedule issued by the Second Circuit, suggests a quick mop up. Practically it seems unlikely that an appeals court would undo a reorg of this magnitude because an entity owning half a percent of the bonds doesn’t like it.
#41 statik – As Jean-Charles Jacquemin’s suggests, French is way to hard for us (English is like, not so easy really either). Before learning French we’ll first concentrate of the “Eh”.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:05 am
Magna electric/PHEV system used in Ford vehicles uses French Saft battery cells, which cost quite more than LG’s cells in Voltec vehicles.
It is unlikely that GM would use Magna system in its vehicles.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:13 am
This is all good news. The more business enthusiasm for the electrification of the car the better.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:20 am
#37 Lwesson :
(..) in Quebec I HAD to read and speak French!
—————————————————————————————————————————
And you survived that ordeal ! Good for you : -))
Must have taken quite a toll on you though… Oh la la…
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:21 am
#38 Cap’n Jack
Shania Twain, , Avril Lavigne, Pam Anderson… need I say more?
And YES we make good beer!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:24 am
DonC @ #53 – “if you believe that E-REV is the best alternative you should hope that GM licenses Voltec on generous terms so the technology gets adopted as widely as possible…”
Agreed BUT the problem with the Volt is the development costs. GM needs to get a fair deal on the licensing of the technology to spread out those costs. Being too “generous” could spread adoption in Europe via Opel while killing adoption in the U.S. via GM.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:26 am
#38 CapnJack
I wonder what Canadian women look like????
___________
Doesn’t matter. They all get prettier about 2:00am just before last call.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:27 am
Magna foresees electric future
http://www.montrealgazette.com/Technology/Magna+foresees+electric+future/1657841/story.html
“Stronach said Magna had secured for $50 million the rights to lithium-ion battery technology developed by a South Korean manufacturer….”
———–
Is that big news? I think that could be very big news.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:28 am
Do I understand that the “Voltec” has been given away by GM. Is this another event where GM got weak knees and give away the farm for the possibility of making money???
Opel has been a part of GM for years and has been a rather good part of GM and should be using the Voltec for a European version of the Volt however, if Germany decides to get other companies involved because they as GM has, mismanaged the business should not have the latest rights to Voltec. At least without paying for it.
If GM would just get the Volt out of the laboratory and on the road first, who cares who has Voltec. The vehicle can be bought by anybody and anaylized and reproduced. Once the Volt with it’s newly developed technology is on the street, then GM will have to put Voltec to new and innovative vehicle structures that appeal to the public.
This is kinda like, everybody in the world makes cars with internal combustion engines however, it is the structure/design of the automobiles that really catch the attention and provide for sales.
Let the US get the first automobile with VOLTEC employed before the Germans, Russians, Canadians, or whoever else comes along and gets it out. This propriety crap is for the birds especially just because others have a stake in GM. Regardless of what GM does, if Voltec is good, the technology will be out there for all to massage.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:29 am
What do Canadian women look like?
Alanis Morrisette, but with hairy arm-pits
FYI – Molson is not Canadian beer anymore (sort of). Its part of the SAB-Miller-Coor-Molson mash-up. Sort of like how America lost Anheuser Busch.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:38 am
#58 MarkinWI
Does bankruptcy do away with some of the Volt development costs?
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:43 am
What’s all the fuss about Canada? The Russians are ending up with 35%. What about that? I don’t see anyone talking about invading Russia, LOL.
And isn’t Magna as much an Austrian company as it is Canadian?
Or did we just let statik pull our chains again? Naaaahhh.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:44 am
#60 carcus1 Says
> Is that big news? I think that could be very big news.
Well, this simply means a long term consolidation of Li-Ion battery market around Korean lithium-polymer technology as the industry standard, since this is where all the R&D actions are taking place at the moment.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:45 am
#47 carcus1
If they all look like: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1203/898247699_6b4f79eb47_o.jpg
Then I am ready to immigrate to Canada.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:47 am
That’s a sweet Ford. Very afFordable unlike the Volt’s high dollar price tag.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:49 am
#62 k-dawg
You are Absolutely right, however I personally like Alexander Keith’s, Amber (Nova Scotia) or Big Rock, Warthog (Alberta) (bad but yet great name for a beer!)
The Stronach name is well known here in Canada, the daughter (Belinda) is an MP who likes to hop political parties depending on the weather. She made a run at the Prime ministers office and was ticked off when she didn’t get it.
Magna is however a good strong company, at least with Frank at the helm.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:54 am
I dunno, that Magna chief sounds way too optimistic on EV’s – I sense a Worldcom sized buildup and collapse coming from them, if they don’t get more realistic.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 10:56 am
#65 Hypermiler,
Ok, well maybe I’m over optimistic (that would be a rare occasion). It sounds, though, like Magna has bought the rights and is planning on manufacturing batteries (as well as everything else). Admittedly, they use the words “battery systems”.
____________
From the article:
“The first stage of that process would involve the production of lithium-ion battery systems for electric cars. Stronach said the company has so far spent $200 million of the $300 million necessary to develop the project, although he refused to specify how much it is seeking from Ottawa.
Stronach said Magna had secured for $50 million the rights to lithium-ion battery technology developed by a South Korean manufacturer, saying the auto-parts maker couldn’t wait the seven or eight years it would have needed to develop its own products.
Stronach said the company could begin mass producing battery systems, and electric cars, within three years.”
http://www.montrealgazette.com/Technology/Magna+foresees+electric+future/1657841/story.html
________________
Am I reading in too much?
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:02 am
N. Riley @ 66
I’m in Canada a couple of times a year. I always look forward to taking in the scenery.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:07 am
68 MuddyRoverRob Says:
June 3rd, 2009 at 10:49 am .#62 k-dawg
You are Absolutely right, however I personally like Alexander Keith’s, Amber (Nova Scotia) or Big Rock, Warthog (Alberta) (bad but yet great name for a beer!)
==============================
I liked this Canadian beer I had in Toronto
http://www.steamwhistle.ca/
But the best part about Canadian beers is that they are usually a higher % alcohol content. Now if they will just put caffeine in their Mt. Dew.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:10 am
I, for one, welcome our new Canadian overlords. I’d like to remind them that as a trusted internet personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground Molson caves.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:10 am
N. Riley, # 66 says.
If they all look like: http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1203/898247699_6b4f79eb47_o.jpg
Then I am ready to immigrate to Canada.
———–
Interesting story. About 22 years ago, a friend of mine and myself spent a long weekend in Montreal. Gosh were those women gorgeous.
On the way home, we stopped at Lake George, New York, to play some miniature golf. The two guys in front of us were from Montreal, so we started talking to them. We told them the women are gorgeous in Montreal. They laughed and told us the woman are gorgeous in the USA.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:18 am
I don’t think GM has any super secret ingredients in Voltec technology. Voltec is derived from very old diesel-electric trains that have been made for many years. Hardly anything new here. Magna doesn’t need any help from GM when it comes to EVs, believe me. There is a huge tide of electric vehicles coming and I can’t wait. The best technology will most likely NOT be the winner. It is more about economics, economies of scale, price of oil, government involvement, politics, etc. than raw design. Series electrics have just as many disadvantages as parallel electrics. So get off your high horse mister america.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:20 am
So Statik,
Is there a giant electric car plant blossoming right in your own back yard? Have you been keeping this a secret?
http://www.montrealgazette.com/Technology/Magna+foresees+electric+future/1657841/story.html
/I love this story. How many times have I linked it now?
Here it is again:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/Technology/Magna+foresees+electric+future/1657841/story.html
One more time:
http://www.montrealgazette.com/Technology/Magna+foresees+electric+future/1657841/story.html
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:23 am
75 Mordeth13 says
I don’t think GM has any super secret ingredients in Voltec technology. Voltec is derived from very old diesel-electric trains that have been made for many years. Hardly anything new here.
==================
Haha.. _OK_.
I love the oversimplifiers. We had some yesterday too.
Look for a career in sales or management.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:32 am
#70 carcus1 Says:
> Ok, well maybe I’m over optimistic (that would be a rare occasion). It sounds, though, like Magna has bought the rights and is planning on manufacturing batteries (as well as everything else). Admittedly, they use the words “battery systems”.
What Magna bought was battery cell tech, as Magna developed and owns Ford’s EV drivetrain tech.
It is rather easy to get into automotive Li-Ion battery cell business in Korea, as Korean government does most of basic research then licenses out the tech to any Korean(foreigners need not apply) company willing to get into the business to promote competition and grow the industry. This is why you have late entrants like SK and Samsung jumping into business, because they can obtain 90% of tech from the government and add 10% of their own stuff to differentiate.
Magna couldn’t obviously apply for this tech license from Korean government, so they appears to have bought into one of the licensee instead. How that affects Magna’s future tech transfer from Korean government is uncertain.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:39 am
75 Mordeth13 says
I don’t think GM has any super secret ingredients in Voltec technology. Voltec is derived from very old diesel-electric trains that have been made for many years. Hardly anything new here.
—
I disagree. At the very least, the software is new.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:43 am
Hey, I will not tolerate any badmouthing of Canadian…beer. (all the other stuff is ok)
—-
#76 carcus1, have you seen this? lol
http://www.montrealgazette.com/Technology/Magna+foresees+electric+future/1657841/story.html
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:46 am
#72 k-dawg said: “I liked this Canadian beer I had in Toronto
http://www.steamwhistle.ca/
But the best part about Canadian beers is that they are usually a higher % alcohol content. Now if they will just put caffeine in their Mt. Dew.”
——-
We will put the caffeine in the Mt. Dew as soon as you figure out what iced tea is…it is meant to be sweetened. Drove me crazy when I played ball in the south…always a nasty surprise, heeh.
Only mental patients and Texans drink unsweetened iced tea. (can’t help but love that phrase). And what is up with the iced tea spoons already? Tells me you really want your iced tea sweetened…you went and made a whole spoon for it, so just go ahead and do it, make the change.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:51 am
Good news.
I’ll probably still go with a focus EV, though
#64:
“What’s all the fuss about Canada? The Russians are ending up with 35%. What about that? I don’t see anyone talking about invading Russia, LOL.”
It’s just reigniting those desires of manifest destiny that have existed for a couple hundred years now
(and looking at this topic, they want our women too!)
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June 3rd, 2009 at 11:58 am
With all the war and hostility spread across the world, I think it’s a beautiful thing that Canada and the United States have such a good relationship. We’re like best pals.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:00 pm
come on GM
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3155482
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:01 pm
Zeus and Apollo are out chasing Canadians as they are not armed anymore, Carcus1 And I am sipping a martini shaken not stirred. Tea later, afternoon you know.
Jason #43 I did mention the Chinese capture of HUMMER which is tied into Cadillac. I would not be surprised at all to read much LATER that the Chinese actually tendered an offer to simply buy ALL of GM now that all the legacy costs and warranty? burdens are taken care of by bankruptcy filing. What a fine catch. Get the Volt and everything else.
Such an offer while most tempting probably would even cause The Obama Groupen to have some indigestion as to explaining that purchase to the American sheeple. Give it time. The Chinese are a patient lot unlike, lets say, the Germans or we would all be speaking funny like the French. Oh, Farfennugen Das Volt!
Yes, Tall Pete, whilst in Quebec there was no complementary English on signs… unlike the rest of Canada which has to endure the French on everything. I met a Canadian Quebecer woman who hated the US but adored this motorcycle riding American, though I soon met the most beautiful (and pleasant) woman from Montreal. I say, life IS indeed wasted on youth. I’d be a Canook in Montreal right now and not a hateful acid rain American. LOL!
Mark H #51 I ordered a pint of stout in Nelson, BC and seeing the tiny glass I made query and was told that in Canada one must speak metric. I told him that in America we still speak English! He gave me two of those silly diminutive metric glasses of Guinness and laughed a knowing laugh!
Cheers!————Higgins
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:01 pm
#81 Statik says,
We will put the caffeine in the Mt. Dew as soon as you figure out what iced tea is…it is meant to be sweetened.
Thank you. I freakin’ hate unsweetened iced tea!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:12 pm
@32 I’m pretty sure the picture is of the future electric version of the Ford Focus.
http://www.cargurus.com/blog/2009/03/25/with-an-electric-ford-focus-why-do-we-need-the-volt/
As for #5 that Ford is copying Toyota that may be true but Ford does plan an E-Rev a BEV and of course has the best Hybrid sedan on the market today so I wouldn’t sell them so short.
Chris
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:12 pm
81.
statik Says:
June 3rd, 2009 at 11:46 am .#72 k-dawg said: “I liked this Canadian beer I had in Toronto
http://www.steamwhistle.ca/
But the best part about Canadian beers is that they are usually a higher % alcohol content. Now if they will just put caffeine in their Mt. Dew.”
——-
We will put the caffeine in the Mt. Dew as soon as you figure out what iced tea is…it is meant to be sweetened. Drove me crazy when I played ball in the south…always a nasty surprise, heeh.
Only mental patients and Texans drink unsweetened iced tea. (can’t help but love that phrase). And what is up with the iced tea spoons already? Tells me you really want your iced tea sweetened…you went and made a whole spoon for it, so just go ahead and do it, make the change.
—————————
Guess i’m unfamiliar with non-sweetened ice tea from the South. My father’s side is from the hills of Virginia, and i think they put 1lb of sugar in every pitcher. In my trips to Georgia, I couldn’t walk 5ft w/out some local yelling “Y’awll want sum sweet tea!”. I can ask my sister in Florida what they do.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:17 pm
#85 Lwesson
At my local pub in Calgary it’s draft by the glass or the pint (or of course jug) We are a bit more redneck here though!
They make Kokanee beer just down the road from Nelson in Creston, but sadly it just isn’t the same as it once was before Labatt got ahold of them. (trying to stay on topic here!)
Lyle have a cold one on a patio someplace!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:22 pm
interesting take…
yes the EV 1 and Volt are in it, as well as the little known “elctrovan”…
http://en.autos.sympatico.msn.ca/showpage/25-Most-Significant-GM-Cars.aspx
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:26 pm
k-dawg @ 88…
Having lived in both Florida & Texas I can confirm that there are the two types of iced tea (sweet & unsweet). Sold by the pitcher.
I was always partial to the unsweetened version (sorry Static).
I do love that Molson Beer, especially the blonde to the far left.
Boy…I wish we had something technical to talk about concerning the Volt.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:31 pm
Thomb@#63 – Not my area at all, but doubtful. GM has sincerely recognized the political importance of the Volt, even if the business viability of the project is speculative right now. So GM probably marked “paid” on all supplier invoices related to the Volt project ASAP for the last six months, to make sure that they did not lose goodwill towards the project. I think this kind of preferential payment would be viewed unfavorably in a normal bankruptcy, and could be rectified by the bankruptcy court. However, this bankruptcy is pre-packaged and is so large in terms of the dollars involved that the opportunities bring up these types of issues may be limited. So I’d guess that the Volt program is paid for to date, that it has been paid for with our tax dollars, and that bankruptcy is unlikely to alter the situation. I bet Lyle would know how close my guesses are.
Canedihan @ #82 – I’d bet 10% of any random sample of the U.S. population would think that Canada was already a U.S. state if you showed them a map of North America. Canada has lots of great points. But I can honestly say I never knew how good beer could be until I started tuning in to all of the microbreweries in Wisconsin. Someone needs to organize a beer tasting tour of this state, complete with bus drivers.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:42 pm
#9 Statik said:
I hope you Americans will not be difficult for your new Canadian masters…at least you can all stop learning Mandarin for awhile. (You might have to start learning french as a technicality…but don’t worry, we never actually use it for any practical reason)
/all your base are belong to us
==================================
and ensuing/related posts:
#10 Rashiid Amul
#11 nuclearboy
#13 Jim I
#14 ccombs
#17 k-dawg
#19 Texas
#20 Jean-Charles Jacquemin
#24 Neil
#25 The Grump
#31 Silvio
#33 ThombDBhomb
#35 Statik
#36 frankyB
#37 Lwesson
#38 CaptJackSparrow
#39 Rashiid Amul
#41 Statik
#47 carcus1
#49 carcus1
#50 Jean-Charles Jacquemin
#51 MarkH
#52 MarkinWI
#53 DonC
#56 Tall Pete
#57 MuddyRoverRob
#59 CorvetteGuy
#62 k-dawg
#64 noel parl
#66 N Riley
#68 MuddyRoverRob
#71 carcus 1
#72 k-dawg
#73 Jim in PA
#74 Rashiid Amul
#80 Statik
#82 canehdian
#83 tBay
#85 Lwesson
#86 Rashiid Amul
#88 k-dawg
#89 MuddyRoverRob
#91 David K (CT)
#92 MarkinWI
So…apologies to Lyle on a ‘little bit’ of a threadjack about Canada.
(Although, I have to admit to finding it a little amusing this time, it was unintentional….maybe everyone wanted a diversion today? lol)
/sorry my friend
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:47 pm
Jason M. Henler @ 43
“I guess no one wants to talk about the Chinese automaker that bought Hummer”
_____________
Well, Schwarzenneger is talking about the EREV Hummer.
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10253734-48.html
But if Raser wanted a politico figurehead to stump their 6,000 lb EREV, for credibility you’d have thought Bill Clinton would be a better choice.
We’re all very familiar with the fact that Clinton knows Hummers!
/ I don’t think you’re going to find too many participants on an electric car site that’ll mourn the “passing” of the Hummer.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:48 pm
#93 Statik
I bet Lyle is more than aware that there just isn’t enough information on this deal yet to really form an opinion.
The big question… are there any pictures from the production line? It would be cool to see things coming together. It would also serve to prove things really are proceding! (They are, right Andrew?)
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:55 pm
#95 MuddyRoverRob said:
#93 Statik
I bet Lyle is more than aware that there just isn’t enough information on this deal yet to really form an opinion.
The big question… are there any pictures from the production line? It would be cool to see things coming together. It would also serve to prove things really are proceding! (They are, right Andrew?)
=================
I’m guessing you mean the prototype/hand built line?
/It would be interesting to see shots of the Volt coming together.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Statik,
I’d like to personally thank you for introducing beer and women to all of us “merakinz” with just one little statement.
I know it’s hard to get a handle on, but sometimes I think you don’t know your own strength.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:02 pm
Carcus1 @ 48,
I drink Earl Grey! Ever since my very American employer quit giving me free fresh-ground coffee… The tea comes in single servings, and a cup of tea tastes a *lot* better a than a similarly prepared cup of instant coffee.
Tea is also cheap — Twinings Earl Gray is only about $3 for 20 servings… Even so, I wish some Republicans get back to protesting and send me a few free boxes…
k-dawg,
My stepmother is from the hills of Virginia as well. If it ain’t supersaturated, it ain’t iced tea! In the Midwest, they ask you whether you’d like your tea unsweetened like they expect an answer. Weird!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:09 pm
#96 Statik
That is exactly what I mean! With all the ‘bad’ news it sure would be a welcome bit of goodness! Prototypes or not you KNOW the manufacturing engineers are either giddy or freaking over how the production flow is going!
OK, I’m back to work… (is it time for that beer yet??? no? sigh…)
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:10 pm
_____________________________________________________
Place your bets….the race is on!
The Chevy Volt hits the sweet spot for most consumers by offering 40 miles all electric range and extended range ICE for those occasional longer trips. The Tesla Model S with its 300 mile all electric range is ideal for those not needing the extended range.
The technology is there. The consumer desire is there. Most car making companies have embraced the Electric Car trend. The variable that is capable of shifting the Electric Car Revolution from a brisk walk to a fast run is PRICE.
Chevy Volt:
~MSRP $40,000 = Sell a Few
~MSRP $30,000 = Sell a Bunch (as many as can be made).
Tesla Model S:
~MSRP $50,000 = Sell Few
~MSRP $40,000 = Sell a Bunch (as many as can be made).
The car makers that will gain the most traction and market in Electric Cars will be those car makers that most quickly offer, in high volume availability, well made Chevy Volt type cars @ ~MSRP $30,000 or Tesla Model S type cars @ ~MSRP $40,000. Who will that car maker end up being? GM?, Ford?, BYD?, VW?, Toyota?, TATA?, Tesla?
GM has the technical EREV jump but the US government as their new owner and boss.
Ford has won added consumer respect for not picking taxpayer’s pockets but are two years behind GM on EV/EREV development.
Toyota wears the Prius halo but also wears organizational and marketing mementum of being anti-plugin.
BYD knows how to build on the cheap (in both sense of the word) but has a strong get-it-done track record.
VW privately has a massive EV/EREV program underway but publicly unenthusiastic towards EV/EREV.
TESLA, the guys that arguably ignited the Electric Car Revolution (according to Bob Lutz) has a good EV jump start but are small fries size wise as once was that other Cilicone Valley startup Google.
Place you bets…
______________________________________________________
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:13 pm
#98 Luke,
I’m with you on that, mate. Earl Grey is a refined drink for the discerning palate. Plus it’s dirt cheap.
I’ve gotten addicted to the Keurig K-cups lately though. At 50 cents a cup, . . I think about the price and savor my “Nantucket Blend” a little longer.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:15 pm
Don’t trust those damn Canadians, specially the French or English speaking kind. The have a severe case of brain freeze up there. Almost everything bought in Canada is stolen or copied from the U.S.
No charge for the education. I consider it a public service.
Your welcome.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:18 pm
Boy…all this Earl Gray & K-cup stuff is way over my head.
I kinda like my Keystone with a lime wedge, but that’s just me.
What about you CJS?
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:21 pm
My friends in America I can assure you that there is nothing finer than a Chinese Hummer !
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:24 pm
#104
I agree..actually any hummer regardless of her nationalily is a good hummer
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:25 pm
Iced tea is never sweet enough, until the spoon can stand up in the pile of undisolved sugar at the bottom of the pitcher……
And when did that become Canadian property???
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:28 pm
@David K (CT) 103
Im more of a H( . y . )TERS n MGD kinda guy.
Is there a H( . y . )TERS up in the big north?
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:29 pm
It’s good to see other companies very interested in making an electric hybrid like the Chevy Volt. The more the better. Competition is good. GM (or whatever the “new” GM is called these days) should be more competitive after exiting bankruptcy proceedings. The Tesla S looks like the car to beat at this point in time, but who knows what new EV lurks around the bend.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:30 pm
@Jim i 106
“Iced tea is never sweet enough”
A Long Island Iced Tea is!!!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:32 pm
Capy @ 107
Yeah…H( . y . )TERS all over the place up here…in fact there’s two on the way home from work.
I’m trying to convince them to setup a plug for me and my Volt.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:49 pm
Nice to see my Russian comrades investing in EV technology. We need to spend our huge gas windfall profits from those crazy euros. It would have been even better to just purchase GM outright (after GM unloads its 176 billion dollar debt onto the american taxpayer of course).
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:50 pm
I don’t understand why you guys like Hooters so much. Guess it’s the hot chicken?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcOD-FQsGf0
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Is that my hero William “Big Cigar” Clinton admiring the Ford EV in that photo above ?
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:58 pm
@carcus1 112
There was chicken wings in that link???? Nu uhhh….
My tidey whities will never be the same……
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June 3rd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
Yeah…he kinda looks like Bill, eh? (how’s that for french).
Edit: Boy, you guys are masters of this youtube thingy, eh?
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June 3rd, 2009 at 2:00 pm
Monica’s in the house!
Quick story, then I gotta do some work.
I was actually getting ready to meet slick Willy a few years back. So I called my bro-in-law cause he’s always telling Clinton jokes and I knew he’d be impressed. He tells me, ” Oh man! Get him to sign a cigar or something!”
(no, I didn’t. Just wimped out and said “nice to meet you”.)
/ahaa , CptJack @ 114, glad you liked the video but that was a little TMI
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June 3rd, 2009 at 2:00 pm
@Monica 113
“Is that my hero William “Big Cigar” Clinton admiring the Ford EV in that photo above ?”
————————————————————–
That’s Heat Miser with grey hair….
http://www.geocities.com/televisioncity/set/9051/heatmisr2.jpg
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 2:02 pm
@carcus1 116
“work”
Quit using those 4 letter words!!!
lol…..
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June 3rd, 2009 at 2:11 pm
David K @ 115,
“Edit: Boy, you guys are masters of this youtube thingy, eh?”
________________________
Youtubers, fishers, baters,. . . just ask Cptjack @ 114, masters of it all.
/ I really am going to do some work now.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 2:16 pm
@carcus1 119
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!
lol
AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
punk.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 2:42 pm
From today’s WSJ online regarding congressional hearings on closing car dealers at Chrysler and GM
The dealer closings have become a major political issue on Capitol Hill, where dealers have ramped up lobbying in recent weeks to oppose the plans. Lawmakers from both parties, whose districts stand to be equally affected by the closures, have responded by pressuring President Barack Obama’s auto industry task force. Dealers have accused the administration of requiring deeper cuts than needed.
—————————–
It is going to be really hard for the feds to keep “hands off” on issues that directly affect many communities.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 2:45 pm
No kidding Lyle, a tangled web of mystery – Unsweetened Ice Tea, CDN overlords, CDN women, FREE BEER, and some company who make car parts. – What a fantastic post today! There’s always FREE BEER with every car sold in Canada – It’s the law!
Multiple owners —- All for one & one for all !!! Go EV!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 3:01 pm
#74 Rashiid Amul
Interesting story. About 22 years ago, a friend of mine and myself spent a long weekend in Montreal. Gosh were those women gorgeous.
On the way home, we stopped at Lake George, New York, to play some miniature golf. The two guys in front of us were from Montreal, so we started talking to them. We told them the women are gorgeous in Montreal. They laughed and told us the woman are gorgeous in the USA.
——————————————–
I guess the old story about the grass looks greener on the other side of the fence applies with women also. I am from Mississippi. I don’t think any state can top our women for looks or attitudes. Come down and we will take a tour. (We will tell our wives it is a business trip.)
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June 3rd, 2009 at 3:09 pm
LauraM
Are you going to comment?
(Quote)
June 3rd, 2009 at 3:22 pm
I guess it is official:
We are tired of posting about politics and bankruptcy……………
And since there is no news on the Volt,
It is Canadian HOOTER’s day at GM-Volt.com!!!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 3:23 pm
Jeeees louise…..
$45,000.00?!?!?!?!?!?!
The Coda will go on sale in 2010 with factory direct sales at a price of $45,000 before incentives.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/06/03/miles-ev-launches-coda-automotive-for-full-speed-electric-sedan/
Take that one off my list.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 3:28 pm
#42 maharguitar
#53 DonC
You guys touched on this, there’s definitely complications with acquiring technology through corporate control in Germany. Furthermore, you don’t automatically get control of companies there just by buying the majority of stock. Look back to the recent purchase of 51% of VW stock by Porsche and you start to get an idea of the complications involved and the limitations imposed on the majority shareholders:
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/autobeat/archives/2009/01/porsche_takeove.html
Porsche can’t actually take control without about 75% of the company stock (ignoring the probably struck down Volkswagen Law that required 80%) and they leveraged themselves too far already to get there.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090518/CARNEWS/905189997
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/openroad/post/2009/05/67270199/1
But what’s really bugging me is that I distinctly remember hearing about problems with technology transfer from Audi. What I recall was that much of VW’s technology (such as Bluemotion) really are owned by Audi and that simply controlling VW isn’t enough clout to get access to the technology that is originated by its subsidiaries.
I can’t find exactly what I was looking for. Here’s something that touches on some of the employee representation issues:
http://www.autonews.com/article/20090129/ANE02/901299992
If anybody can find more information about it, it might be highly informative for what might be in store for Voltec tech.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 3:36 pm
@Jim I 125
“It is Canadian HOOTER’s day at GM-Volt.com!!!”
Bring on the beer!!!!
OK, had a few at lunch…..lol
College yrs
( . y . )
Perky yrs
( ^ y ^ )
Mid yrs
( o Y o )
Silicone
( + )( + )
Cougar yrs
{,y,}
Take a guess..
\o/\o/
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!!!!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 3:42 pm
The first-generation Prius went on sale in 1997
AND Now THIS…
Toyota to lease 500 plug-ins by end of this year
GM…why don’t you close up shop? Always late to the party or you would be collecting at the door instead of Toyota.
Have a nice day at government motors. Be sure to collect that fat taxpayer paycheck for doing NOTHING for the tax payer.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 3:43 pm
#126 CJS on the Coda sedan, with link
From the linked article
“Charging the battery for a 40-mile commute can be completed in two hours.”
————————————–
Wonder how they do that. We have considered the time limited by the charging circuit.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 4:00 pm
“and all the signs are in French (a stroke of evil brilliance).”
Last time I was in Montreal I outsmarted them. I know from high-school french that “pont” means bridge, so I followed the signs to the “Pont Fermé”. Drat if it wasn’t closed when I got to it! So typical, they didn’t even bother to put a signs up!
It’s almost as bad as the Brits trying to confuse us by putting something they call “prepositions” in street signs, like “No Parking ‘At’ Any Time”. To say nothing of the wrong side of the street thing!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 4:03 pm
The fact that there are now three battery technologies that hold real promise of allowing battery-only electrics to be the preferred design (Firefly, EEStor, A123 Systems) makes the continued viability
of the Voltec system questionable. This wouldn’t necessarily be a blow to GM – after all, they have created electric cars and concepts that can quickly and easily be transformed to battery-only. Perhaps they have already done that with the system.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 4:05 pm
Beer or women,
women or beer.
Which I want more. . .?
It’s not always clear.
One thing’s for sure, though . .
ask me or my brother:
If you get too much of one . .
you’ll want the other.
/ If I were a poet, I’d be at work right now.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 4:25 pm
If you can’t beat ‘em (or just aren’t trying to)… join ‘em.
—–
And when I wake up in the morning
My mouth’s all parched and dry, parched and dry
And I crawl to the refrigerator
And I peek inside
And I feel like somebody drove nails
Into my head and eyes
And I’m hoping and I’m praying
I hope there’s one more beer
– from “More Beer” by “Fear”
http://lyricwiki.org/Fear:More_Beer
—–
By the way, I don’t want to alarm anybody, and maybe you’ve not noticed… but I think this discussion may have gotten just a wee tiny bit off topic.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Lyle aptly describes Opel’s restructuring as a “tangled web” — I sincerely hope Opel’s future owners (Magna 20%, Sberbank 35%, GM 35%, and Opel’s auto workers 10%) will take note of my sincere hope that —as an extremely enthusiastic owner of the Opel Antera rebadged as a 2008 Saturn Vue— a way can be found to import the gorgeous AMPERA to the US —I’ll buy it (rather than the plain-vanilla Volt) IN A HEARTBEAT!!!
ANYONE ELSE HERE AGREE??? …..IF SO, SAY SO BELOW!!!
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June 3rd, 2009 at 5:15 pm
kent beuchert #132
Yea, whether on purpose or the first time some “genius” forgets to put in the $5-10K retail of Genset related components. Puuleease, somebody offer CJS and others their Volt BEV.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 5:30 pm
It appears that this site is becoming just another trash catch all site that people log in comments that don’t relate to the issues. I wouldn’t be supprised if this was shut down and/or restricted.
I like to read comments of people who have given the issue(s) some thought. That is issues relating to the VOLT and not about Beer, Women and/or other countrymen.
I know this issue concerns Germany, Canada and even Russia so address this issue and quit putting so much junk that I get bored reading it.
The issue is, Get the VOLT completed and out on the showroom and let us know something about the progress. GM doesn’t need to make this a circus event.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 5:45 pm
#137 Larry McFall
If you’ve spent more than a day here, you’d realize that today is an aberration. I frequently find a lot of educated opinions, interesting facts, and oddball characters here.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Why is that hood support yellow? I keep thinking it carries electricity.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Relax Mr. McFall. Have a beer, or maybe a glass of red wine. It could keep your arteries from becoming restricted or your heart from shutting down.
/you don’t like my poetry? *sniff
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June 3rd, 2009 at 5:53 pm
I need a line diagram.
Names, Who they are (in one word), Country and what they now own.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:12 pm
______________________________________________________
#132 kent beuchert Said:
“The fact that there are now three battery technologies that hold real promise of allowing battery-only electrics to be the preferred design (Firefly, EEStor, A123 Systems)…”
—-
Is EEStor a battery technology? Is Fantastic Cheese a technology if no one has ever seen or tasted Fantastic Cheese?
______________________________________________________
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:26 pm
Well, looks like Toymota is admitting that their plug-ins don’t do much better than 50 to 55 mpg.
http://industry.bnet.com/auto/10001607/toyotas-problem-with-plug-in-hybrids/
Sorry to burst your bubble #129, Joke’sonYou.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Now that the American Government has taken ownership of GM, the government wants to determine how many GM dealerships and other non-GM dealerships are allowed to close:
U.S. Lawmakers Fight Closing of Nearly 2,000 Car Dealerships:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/03/lawmakers-fight-closing-nearly-car-dealerships/
“It must be said, that like the breaking of a great dam, the American decent into Marxism is happening with breath taking speed…Barack Obama’s command that GM’s (General Motor) president step down from leadership of his company. That is correct, dear reader, in the land of “pure” free markets, the American president now has the power, the self given power, to fire CEOs and we can assume other employees of private companies, at will. Come hither, go dither, the centurion commands his minions….
So it should be no surprise, that the American president has followed this up with a “bold” move of declaring that he and another group of unelected, chosen stooges will now redesign the entire automotive industry and will even be the guarantee of automobile policies…”
Source PRAVDA:
Page 1: http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-0/
Page 2: http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/columnists/107459-1/
===========================================
Does anyone else find it surreal that the free Russian Press is opining “the American decent into Marxism”?
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:48 pm
#132
I think Kent is onto one of the possibilities with a second pack up front.
Possibly an option. That A123 pack made by Hymotion for the Prius might be a really great thing to ICE-substitute for Cap’n Jack, especially if Hymotion offers something like that to GM as BEV option instead of a range extender.
Getting the weight down by, my guess, by about 600 pounds and adding back the 180 pounds for the second pack from A123 would have your Volt at about 2900 pounds, and go about 80 miles.
Very respectable if the pack would be backed with a warranty the same as if the EREV were still there “on guard” to protect from over-draining the packs.
But most folks might want to have a second old vehicle as a backup. One that is a gas hog would be a good thing for that to be re-purposed for less than 50 miles a month or so.
#63, The Voltec past developmental costs are already paid, and, the future costs are also completely payable as if no reorganization ever happened as well. No part of its development had not been funded, (although with Federal funding). However, those results being partly shared to all publicly, it seems to me, has been the fire lit under the other OEM’s that the public is completely committed to Voltec EREV propulsion type systems. That in itself has been worth the investments, it seems to me, to spur green electric motoring.
(EESTOR is at least 7 years away as of right now IMTO).
(I h8 unsweet tea. Gimme lotsa that yellow-pack stuff)
Dan.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 6:53 pm
_____________________________________________________
#144 With Love From Russia Said:
U.S. Lawmakers Fight Closing of Nearly 2,000 Car Dealerships:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/03/lawmakers-fight-closing-nearly-car-dealerships/
—–
Wow…it is amazing that the US Gov now wants to control which dealerships should be closed.
______________________________________________________
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:00 pm
#144 With Love From Russia
So, Fox News is reporting that closing dealerships is a sensitive matter.
I guess we should all go into survivalist mode.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:15 pm
#146 CDAVIS
That is one way to spin it.
Given that dealerships must close, I suppose dealers can’t decide amongst themselves who should close. So, dealers are appealing to their elected officials (i.e., government) for help. Then government gets blamed for “control[ling] which dealerships should be closed.”
It ’s so simple; always blame government.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:26 pm
How about i nice Moosehead, eh?
That Canuck gal on “The Bachelor” is certainly fetching. Great personality, too.
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June 3rd, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Never been a big fan of essence of bergemot. It’s alright, just not a big fan.
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June 5th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
statik
The Canadians have one more thing to say, to the tune of Rush in the background – - Greetings Gentlemen, you are on way to destruction, make time to survive.
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