We learned watching the Chevy Volt change from concept to production form how the forces of aerodynamics and electric drive introduce new constraints on car design.
Whereas some were dismayed by these changes, experts agree that these new constraints offer exciting new possibilities.
One question is whether the vehicle’s design should be a badge of distinction for driver who want to let others know they are driving without gas. Take for example the Prius’ unique look or that of the new Honda Insight.
Volt lead designer Bob Boniface thinks so too.
“People who spend money on technology . . . want to wear that on their sleeve,” he said. “[But] it does still need to have one foot in the mainstream so it fits in people’s lives.”
Places where the presence of electric drive could have the largest impact on design are the grille and hood. Since ventilation isn’t as important in electric cars, a large open grill isn’t necessary, and designers could stretch and tweak the nose of the car in new ways.
Henrik Fisker, CEO of Fisker Automotive also noted “You don’t necessarily have that huge engine up front, so you can sculpt the hood.” Indeed that is what his team has done with the upcoming Karma extended-range vehicle.
New interior space may also arise as batteries shrink and gas tanks disappear.
Source (Autoweek)
This entry was posted on Saturday, May 16th, 2009 at 10:09 am and is filed under Design. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
May 16th, 2009 (10:18 am)This is sweet, personally I can’t wait to see some of the new designs they are coming up with. I just hope that American car makers manage to make it though the tough times. I like the statement as gas tank disappear…
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May 16th, 2009 (10:19 am)As many here know, I have never liked the Volt’s fake grill!
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May 16th, 2009 (10:23 am)/bring on the jelly beans
Lyle said: “Whereas some were dismayed by these changes, experts agree that these new constraints offer exciting new possibilities”
–lets not go down this road again
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May 16th, 2009 (10:30 am)……because form should follow function whenever possible (and that form can also be beautifully executed), I would have greatly prefered the Volt hood to avoid using a grill —or to use a very small, partially functional grill like Opel did with the gorgeous Ampera concept! Eventually, I believe the most exotic designs will at least somewhat resemble the best sleek Italian designs, as does the Fisker Karma above.
(BTW, the Tesla S is a superb design for a 5 + 2 passenger sedan!)
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May 16th, 2009 (11:01 am)I dunno… I kinda like the fake grill design on the Volt. To each their own I suppose. The Fisker is a beautiful design, but a little too exotic for my taste (and pocketbook).
I’m anxious to see how the changing guts of the automobile will affect outward designs. The Model S by Tesla is a good example; I love it’s sleek look. The Volt also has a unique look to it; much more attractive than either the Prius or the Insight, and its appearance still says “new tochnology”. I think the designers have really come through.
Although; I still wonder what the lower lights on the Volt’s front are for. They look like decoration; are they supposed to be useful for something, maybe fancy foglamps? I do love the headlight design though!
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May 16th, 2009 (11:17 am)I think Telsa has shown the exact opposite of this thought that electric vehicles have to look different. Telsa’s just look pretty damn cool, electric or not. That’s one thing about the Prius/Insight, they look kinda dumb. Personally, if I am driving an EV I could care less if the rest of the world knows it, I will know it. I just want it to look good.
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May 16th, 2009 (11:27 am)One question is whether the vehicle’s design should be a badge of distinction for driver who want to let others know they are driving without gas. Take for example the Prius’ unique look or that of the new Honda Insight.
Volt lead designer Bob Boniface thinks so too.
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Bob Boniface thinks that the vehicle’s design should be a badge of distinction? Really?
The Volt concept was distinctive, but the Volt production is pure GM bland. The Volt is more or less indistinguishable from similar Toyota and Honda cars and from the Chevy Cruze. So the car the Mr Boniface actually designed is not at all distinctive. His words to the contrary may represent his personal feelings, but they don’t carry over into his designs for the corporation. Remember , when the Volt production model was introduced it’s rather ordinary styling was excused as “for the masses” and “what is inside is what really counts.” It is not distinctive.
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May 16th, 2009 (11:31 am)#2 nasaman:
I agree. I don’t see how it could possibly do anything for the Cd either. As you know far better than I, every tiny bit of drag hurts. And it has some incremental weight, no matter how tiny.
I think that Mr. Boniface put it exactly right.
Cars like the Chrysler Airstream, the Tucker, the 1953 Raymond Lowey Studebaker, the original Honda Insight, and the EV1, all made brilliant design statements by trying to work efficiently with the air (JMHO). Even though they were all arguably ahead of their times, I hope that future design trends go in these, and even more innovative, directions.
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May 16th, 2009 (11:35 am)Agree that Tesla and Fisker are beginning of great things to come.
However function over form (for the most part) is the most important factor for me right now. And while I like the Volt for its 40 miles EV, range extender capability, and lower price point than Tesla and Fisker, I am struggling with its 4 passenger limit.
I have a family of 5 and I just can’t justify buying a car where 5 of us cannot sit with reasonable comfort. Has there been any discussion around options for the back seat?
From previous Volt pics and at auto show, it looked like a center console ran all the way through to back seat because of battery pack. Pics from interior of Volt “mules” (Cruize) appeared to have a “bench” seat with a bump running down the center. If there were an option for a bench seat and no console instead of bucket seats w/console, I think my family of 5 could ride in relative comfort.
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May 16th, 2009 (11:44 am)PML Flightlink of England makes the best inwheel eelctric motors – they can also contain a simple 2 speed transmission (which is about all that an electric car could ever use and is only required when
one wants an extremely wide driving speed range – zero to 150MPH for example) as well as integral regen/conventional braking. They each can output anywhere from 150 to 175 HP and don’t weigh very much. Apparently, they actually add zero weight, since they weigh the same as the disk brake system that would have been there. This is (I assume) a likely drivetrain for the upcoming Cadillac Converj.
I believe that the Fisker Karma is going to use them (but not the quickly-becoming-obsolete Tesla).
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May 16th, 2009 (11:46 am)“Electrification of the Automobile Will Evolve Car Design in New Ways.” Not only that, evolutions will occur in society. Bring it on.
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May 16th, 2009 (11:48 am)I always thought GM’s own “Skateboard” chassis concept of a few years ago was quite the intriguing idea. You could make the top of the car essentially anything you want. If you aren’t familiar with this, it is definitely worth the google. Check it out.
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May 16th, 2009 (11:51 am)In carefully considering sculpting of the various hoods, I think all hybrids, like the Volt and the Prius, should be required to have a large “H” sculpted in their hoods. A BEV like the Fisker and Tesla should be required to have an “E” and cars like the Malibu, which are Hybrids in Name Only, should have a “NO” sculpted in the hood.
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May 16th, 2009 (11:55 am)One day, when energy is clean, cheap and abundant, we can remove energy efficiency constraints on vehicles, so that we can have very radical vehicle designs, like that Oscar Meyer Wiener mobile and on and on …
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May 16th, 2009 (11:58 am)In California: It is better to look good, than to feel good.
Translation: The VOLT does not need to be shaped like an old Dodge Stratus.
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May 16th, 2009 (12:21 pm)Function over form anytime. I drive one of the original Honda Insights. It is not what you would call a pretty car and is only a 2 seater but I have saved over $5,000.00 in gas since I traded my Jeep and I have never been unhappy about it. It was as close to an electric car as I could get at the time (August 2006). I feel I am doing as much as I can do to keep the American Dollars out of the hands of terrorists who hate us. Bring me a reliable, highway capable electric car and I will buy it. Volt, Model S, Focus EV, I don’t care what it looks like as long as it uses no or extremely little gas. PREFERABLY NO GAS PERIOD. Gasoline engines are so last century.
Take Care,
TED
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May 16th, 2009 (1:26 pm)#14 Jason M. Hendler:
I just saw a downsized Wiener Mobile the other day. On a Mini chassis, LOL. What is this world coming to? Driven by a good looking blonde, most decidedly NOT Little Oscar. I dunno man, where will it all end? I hope you’re right!
#16 Ted in Fort Meyers:
If one believes, as I do, that form follows function, your Insight has to be one of the best looking, or at least the most striking and thought provoking, cars ever. No compromise, all about Cd. A breathtaking engineering tour de force whan it first appeared. And I’m not a Honda fan by any means. Good for you.
I tried to buy one, but my wife was just not going for a 2 seat car any more. Too bad.
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May 16th, 2009 (1:33 pm)So I were to suddenly have large amounts of money, the Karma would be the first thing I’d allot some for. Of course, I’d also have to keep my job to show the car off…
Living life as a brash American probably doesn’t feel that bad if you don’t use gas doing it!
NPNS!!!!!! =D~~
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May 16th, 2009 (2:09 pm)Fake, shmake who cares as long as its electric.
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May 16th, 2009 (2:17 pm)Yeah, I think Boniface is right, although personally for me the less flashy the better. The production Volt is about as flashy a car as I would ever drive without being embarrassed. I think I’m just weird, especially for a southern Californian.
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May 16th, 2009 (2:20 pm)I’d bet that this is a hint that some minor Cd savings in loosing the front grille might make for some major surprising “last minute” changes in styling.
Dan Petit Austin TX
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May 16th, 2009 (2:43 pm)The Aptera vehicle is the lowest cd design – looks like an airplane, but at the cost of utility.
I always wanted to make a car that looked like a flying carpet, so I could ride around sitting indian style like Ali Baba.
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May 16th, 2009 (2:47 pm)I’m with most of you regarding form following funtion. The only people I want to make a statement to are the ones at OPEC and the oil speculators. Unfortuantly the statement is not one I would want to put in print
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May 16th, 2009 (2:58 pm)#7 RB:
With all due respect, the designers have mentioned many times the concept car was extremely inefficient in terms of aerodynamics; it had to be changed. I, for my part, much prefer the production version over the hideously disproportionate concept car; their just wasnt any synergy for me in the overall aesthetics. Just my humble opinion.
Remember, if all goes well there will be a Cadillac version which will have all the sporty goodness one could want in a (semi) affordable EREV coupe.
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May 16th, 2009 (3:13 pm)The Tesla model S is the bomb. No other EV sedan comes close. Sorry Volt freaks but your precious Volt is only a Hybrid Vehicle and not a true EV. One day GM will learn from its many mistakes and build a car the public really wants. They are called “electric” for a reason.
Dump the huge gas guzzler in the Volt willya already. 1.4 liters of fossil-burning Volt generated pollution !
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May 16th, 2009 (3:17 pm)#12
Schmeltz
I always thought GM’s own “Skateboard” chassis concept of a few years ago was quite the intriguing idea. You could make the top of the car essentially anything you want. If you aren’t familiar with this, it is definitely worth the google. Check it out
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I remember seeing it a a car show once. I remember feeling about it somewhat the way I felt about the concept Volt. That this is a great and very innovative idea. Well thought out and practical enough to save billions in future platform development costs (the skateboard at least) if it could ever wind it’s way through development in GM. Therefore it will N-E-V-E-R, E-V-E-R be built!
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May 16th, 2009 (3:25 pm)Van ” In carefully considering sculpting of the various hoods, I think all hybrids, like the Volt and the Prius, should be required to have a large “H” sculpted in their hoods. A BEV like the Fisker and Tesla should be required to have an “E” and cars like the Malibu, which are Hybrids in Name Only, should have a “NO” sculpted in the hood”
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…And cars with only an ICE should have H-NO on their hoods.
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May 16th, 2009 (3:27 pm)______________________________________________________
Toyota speeds up thier plug-in program (aka…Toyota does not want to get overtaken by GM in the plug-in Electric Car Revolution):
“…Toyota has announced they’ll be leasing the third-generation Prius plug-in hybrid by the end of THIS year, months ahead of schedule…
Source: http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1020736_toyota-pushes-up-next-gen-prius-test-leases-from-2010-to-late-2009
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Electric Cars + Nuclear Energy = American Energy Indpendence!
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May 16th, 2009 (3:28 pm)The Tesla S definitely looks like the car to beat. The Volt simply cannot compete with this car. The S has 240 mile range (no range anxiety here folks), it smokes the Volt off the line, its a true 5 passenger sedan, looks way better than the Volt, much lower maintenance costs than Volt, no gas engine. Did I mention NO GAS ENGINE in the Tesla S ?
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May 16th, 2009 (3:35 pm)#12, #26
Agreed. I totally miss the skateboard concept. Too bad they couldn’t have made it one big battery.
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May 16th, 2009 (3:41 pm)#26 Jeffhre:
Yeah, the more I think about it, the skateboard should be THE way to go. They should plan for it for Gen 3 Volt and all other iterations on the platform. They could develop 2 or 3 different skateboard chassis, I’m thinking small Car, Crossover/Miniivan/medium sized car, and Large SUV/Pick-up. Then design different shells for the top of each electric chassis. The future…IMHO.
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May 16th, 2009 (3:47 pm)______________________________________________________
#29 Jesus Jones Said:”
…The S has 240 mile range (no range anxiety here folks)…”
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240miles less 30% reserve margin = 168miles usable.
168miles usable / 2 = 84miles turn-back reach.
Therefore 240mile stated range is a good solution ONLY for those that don’t require the ability to travel further than 84 miles out from thier home before having to turn back for a charge. I live 120 miles from Disney World. I can’t go visit my friend Mickey Mouse for lunch driving the Tesla Model S but I can driving the Volt.
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May 16th, 2009 (3:57 pm)Jeffhre @ 27 – thanks gave me a chuckle – twice.
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May 16th, 2009 (4:05 pm)12 Schmeltz: I always thought GM’s own “Skateboard” chassis concept of a few years ago was quite the intriguing idea. You could make the top of the car essentially anything you want. If you aren’t familiar with this, it is definitely worth the google. Check it out.
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Here Here! I have been saying the same thing since this site began.
It is obvious that car makers still have their heads stuck in the past, protecting their status quo of custom designing so much of a car model each year that they can’t possibly achieve any economies of scale.
They do this because they don’t spend enough time in engineering and product testing before a car model is released. So if there is a major problem it won’t taint the entire brand. This is outdated thinking. With electric drive the complexity of the mechanical aspects goes way down, freeing them to spend more time on the driver and passenger experience.
GM, give us the skateboard. Get your head out of the past!
Here’s my idea:
= chassis connection points (physical/electrical/electronic) in standardized places, just design the car body to mate these, resulting in economies of scale and more rapid model design.
= structural element, battery section separator, integrated battery cooling/heating system all in one stamped carbon fiber unit.
= the bottom of the skateboard is a smooth unibody carbon fiber plate to increase aerodynamic performance.) The whole skateboard could be stamped carbon fiber by the way. Check out http://www.fiberforge.com for info.
= each of the 4 wheels is an in-wheel motor module with its own electric steering motor and control, electrical elevation control, tire pressure control, electronic rotation monitoring (for ABS and traction control as well as synchronization with other wheels – they must all rotate at exactly the same rate), etc.
= my version of the skateboard is an open top design because the mating car body has to have a floor pan so why duplicate?
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May 16th, 2009 (5:00 pm)A little off topic:
Top 3 Questions at our Chevy Dealership today>
1. “Is the Camaro here?”
2. “Did your dealership ‘make-the-cut’ ?”
3. “Whatcha gonna do when GM goes bankrupt ?”
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May 16th, 2009 (5:03 pm)Answers:
1. No.
2. Yes.
3. I don’t know.
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May 16th, 2009 (5:10 pm)I’m a big fan of the Volt , and a big fan of the Tesla S. I saw a Tesla Roadster last week driving in the opposite direction ( my first real sighting ). A friend of mine plunked down a $5000.00 deposit for the Tesla S a day after it was announced to the public, and I cant wait to see one and drive one of those someday. I guess I’m also a fan of the Fisker . Well, I see no reason that I must swear allegience to any ONE car maker or model. I hope they all succeed , if and when they do , we will all be better off…and I can hardley wait……but this GM bankruptsy has me very concerned one wont make it to market !
At the moment I’m considering a Ford Fusion to bridge the gap for the next couple years until those others EVs and Plug Ins are available and the bugs worked out of them !!
Steve W. in South Florida
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May 16th, 2009 (5:13 pm)#32 I absolutely agree!!
Don’t forget to subtract another 18 percent for the Air Conditioner, because you’re going to really “sweat it” in worrying about the finite range. So, your destination distance forward and back, if highway speed-demands are the way, it might only be a 70 miles-out destination and back. I don’t think that’s OK at all.
Of course you’re always going to “sweat it” in any BEV at all times. Watching the voltmeter, watching the voltmeter, watching the voltmeter. Worrying, worrying worrying.
The warranty is out. The warranty is out. The warranty is out. Who needs that?
Only one destination-drive like that a day is ridiculous if a BEV is all you have to drive. Talk about being a “shut in” until your pack is recharged. Why buy a BEV in the first place if you don’t have the redundancy of a Genset?
Why get a leased Toyota EV if it holds its value so well? Would that be a “claw-back” lease or a one dollar buy-out lease? You are just throwing away those very high payments just so Toyota can say they are ahead of GM. They, nor anyone else is ahead of GM.
Even if they do come up with something in a lease, the informed public will not be fooled regarding what they had to put into it for battery-chemistry, and etc, in order to come out a little sooner.
But anyway, the race is definitely on, which is exciting and good for everyone. And, increasingly, far more people are paying strict attention to this subject matter of green electric motoring.
Dan Petit Austin TX
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May 16th, 2009 (5:14 pm)Yes we need some better car design’s. Design has always been limited by this whole “Real Life” thing so cool looking concept’s have always become Dog’s Dinner’s. Hopefully we will see more Concepty Car’s on the road.
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May 16th, 2009 (5:15 pm)I accidently posted, can someone please delete this comment!
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May 16th, 2009 (5:31 pm)#24 Jason Sandler says to me
With all due respect, the designers have mentioned many times the concept car was extremely inefficient in terms of aerodynamics; it had to be changed. I, for my part, much prefer the production version over the hideously disproportionate concept car; their just wasnt any synergy for me in the overall aesthetics. Just my humble opinion.
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The production Volt looks fine, just as do the many other cars that look about the same. Many people seem to like the fact that it is comfortably indistinguishable. One commentator yesterday said it would be fine if customers came into a dealership to see the Camaro and left with a plain car, like the Volt. .
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May 16th, 2009 (5:45 pm)Most Americans (I think) buy cars according to the style they like. Some electric cars have found a new style, like the Tesla Sedan, even the Chrysler 200C although we might not ever see it on the road. The Volt however had a bold style at one time but, instead of working with that bold concept, GM opted to show us a car that looks like 90% of the cars on the road today, yet they are going to be bringing it out in the 2011 model year! I like others here happened to like the concept boldness, instead we get a real yawner. I would much rather pay more more for the Cadillac Converj with bold style that common place Volt. GM missed the boat on the Volt but camr through on the Converj, if it happens. That’s mu two cents worth.
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May 16th, 2009 (5:53 pm)I don’t care about looks as much as functionality in a car. What I do care about is that my next car will NEVER cause me to send my dollars to terrorists because of using oil/gas. Tesla, Nissan, Aptera, whatever. I don’t have a brand preference as long as it is all electric.
=D~~NOPLUGNOSALE
ELECTRIC CARS + 40% NUCLEAR POWER + 10% HYDRO/TIDE POWER + 50% SOLAR AND WIND (0% COAL/FOSSIL FUELS!!!) = AMERICAN ENERGY INDEPENDENCE and ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION
P.S. Let the crybabies who worry, worry, worry have their gas guzzlers. Just say a prayer for the young men and women who have died to protect your gastank.
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May 16th, 2009 (6:30 pm)“240miles less 30% reserve margin = 168miles usable.
168miles usable / 2 = 84miles turn-back reach.”
This is some fuzzy math. 30% reserve margin??? Is this a new marketing term like range anxiety?
If you are scared of a 240 mile range, a pure EV is not for you. But for the vast majority of people who commute less that 40 miles a day, 240 is plenty.
Not all cars do everything for everyone. My Mini Cooper can’t pull a boat.
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May 16th, 2009 (7:02 pm)43 Jerry
I agree.
100 mile range would be more than sufficient for my use. I have no range anxiety issues, but some do. For those who do the Volt may be their bag of tricks, for others a pure BEV fits the bill.
For those who keep bringing up the range anxiety issue, please stop telling those who do not, what we want.
And that’s all I have to say about that…
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May 16th, 2009 (7:11 pm)41 RB
“One commentator yesterday said it would be fine if customers came into a dealership to see the Camaro and left with a plain car, like the Volt. .”
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If your dropping $30k+, you probably want something more then plain. I believe that many of people who “think” the Volt would be a vehicle that they would consider, will change their mind after they sit down and run the numbers.
You gotta give us something more than just a “plain” car, to justify the price tag. The battery will be part of the “something other”, but I am not sure it will be enough for most.
JMHO…
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May 16th, 2009 (7:15 pm)This is exciting!!
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May 16th, 2009 (8:38 pm)#46 JEC says “You gotta give us something more than just a “plain” car, to justify the price tag. The battery will be part of the “something other”, but I am not sure it will be enough for most.”
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For me, the battery might be enough, but for many others, I think you are right.
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May 16th, 2009 (9:10 pm)To me, the design of the Volt is not “plain” at all, and that’s coming from a guy who really isn’t all that much into cars. Check out the Fusion hybrid; now there is a “plain-looking” $30K car. Great car, but looks like every other car on the road. The Volt kicks it’s butt in the looks department as far as Im concerned.
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May 16th, 2009 (11:12 pm)Actually by the time the Tesla S comes out the Lithium battery improvements may allow it to achieve 300 mile range. When they start hitting 400 mile range, Bingo !, range extender is history in ALL cars.
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May 16th, 2009 (11:22 pm)Hey. Maybe without a gas tank, wagons could have two rows of full-sized seating, so minivans wouldn’t be so necessary? (More room at the back with no gas tank-> lower floor-> adult seating in the back).
And doesn’t that Fisker look great (except maybe the headlights?)!
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May 16th, 2009 (11:31 pm)Oh BTW I think the long hood is here to stay, because we need it as a crumple zone for a high-speed crash. (Some say the ‘cab-forward’ look like the Honda Clarity FCX is coming, and the hood is on the way out) Also as the ICE disappears, even as a range-extender one day, the front of the car will have just an electric motor, so goodbye to nose-heavy understeer, which is bad for handling (that’s why BMWs have the front wheels pushed forward towards the corners of the car). A good thing, electric cars! Used to be, if you wanted V8 thrust, you lived with nose-heavy cornering- no longer
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May 17th, 2009 (5:05 am)Noel Park #17
The look of the Insight starts to grow on you after a while. 60 MPG is not that bad either. But nothing, NOTHING will satisfy like a BEV or Erev. The Insight is just a great car in the interim and was the closest to electric I could buy in 2006.
Take Care,
TED
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May 17th, 2009 (5:21 am)Until/unless Musk gets some serious cash, the Tesla S is vaporware — vaporware that, as Kent said in post #10, is using technology that is rapidly becoming obsolete.
So please spare us the comparisons of the Volt with this figment of Tesla’s imagination.
I’d keep my eye on Fisker, however.
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May 17th, 2009 (7:18 am)#16 Ted, I agree. Diesel to fuel cell evolution.
#50, while an all electric car sounds great. That cannot be a mass market idea for decades because of the grid. With America going 10 trillion in debt, there is no money to spend on the grid anymore. There were many reasons the majority of the people here didn’t want a bailout, one was this very reason. Now we are stuck budget wise.
We should be happy to have regular, hybrids, and the Volt for the mass market for years. If we would only drill for our own oil, we could supply the amount currently bought from ‘crazy’ and ‘nutso’ countries. Then switch to diesel and get a MPG while conserving energy.
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May 17th, 2009 (7:20 am)A car is a car. As long as it is safe (unlike those little electric death traps being made now), has a storage truck for groceries or golf clubs, and give you the performance and feel of a great car… go for any design. Outside of going anime in the styling, it will look very much like what we have to today due to roads and parking spaces.
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May 17th, 2009 (7:47 am)Sure it will just look at the Jeep EREV , same 40 miles as the Volt before the gen-set kicks in , give me a break , it is as streamlined as a brick .
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May 17th, 2009 (7:59 am)The first time a BEV is stuck without sufficient charge to go to the next needed destination, then all of the friends and family of the BEV owner realize that they are going to have to “transportation-babysit” for the BEV owner.
How about being “recharge-stuck” at a place where you do not want to be?
How about being at a SOC where your BEV starts to slow down during transit back, and it is going slower and slower during the time that is is going through an undesirable ‘hood.
Or, at night time where you are out in the “boonies”??
How about going to a destination where you are counting on a 120 volt plug to be available, and, it is dead or someone else’s BEV needs to be at that plug for 8 hours?
How about when you run out of charge halfway to a destination because you did not do your math, and, your “Triple A” towing insurance has already used up the four free tows home for your “out of juice” BEV?
People just are not thinking of these things, and it is astounding how situationally-indifferent promoters of BEV are being about all this.
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OF COURSE EVERYONE
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will have weekly/monthly needs to go beyond the need of BEV’s limited ranges and whose owners will have to count on other help somehow for some reason for their transportation needs
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FAR FAR MORE
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than is implied or suggested in some of these posts.
One post a few topics back said that EV builders put range-extender Gensets in EV’s.
Not true, not even once.
Who did that, and for how long did it work distance-wise extra that made it worth it?
You would need to do exactly what GM is doing for something like that to do any good, and it is not correct to fill the thread with false (there there) information which might lead someone to make an
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EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE AND DANGEROUS
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decision to place a large amount of their money in the hands of an experimenter who does not have proven ASE-Examined credentials.
People are spending their money daily on “projects” out there in the field where there are no industry standards yet. But those very standards are coming VERY SOON IN THE VOLTEC VEHICLES.
Then, you will be able to easily point to any “project proposal” and ask “Will your deal do everything as properly and safely and reliably and be as affordable and be backed for the same warranties as this GM Volt over here?”
When the answer is always going to be a “No” (to all questions), then you have your answers. The problem with people who honestly believe they know a lot, is that the lesser-informed have no idea that these “knowledgeable” people unintentionally
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ALWAYS
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generalize that the less-informed should be caused to do something that they would NEVER finally decide to do given the true facts.
This is why the practicalities that GM is bringing forward for us are the finest of practicalities combined for where all of the composites of all technical advancements are on the planet today. Plus, GM will back that with the warranties that EVERYONE EXPECTS. Get it all in writing first, examine each sentence first, then wait about 17 months more before making your decision.
Dan Petit Austin TX.
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May 17th, 2009 (10:18 am)CDAVIS@28 RE: early release of Prius plugin this year.
The first paragraph at that link says its their test fleet of 500 that will be released early.
Just clarifying.
Wouldn’t the mini Oscar Meyers mobile be a Vienna Sausage mobile?
Be well,
Tag
Now more than ever:
LJGTVWOTR!!********NPNS
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May 17th, 2009 (11:22 am)Does this mean that we can finally get a 2 seat convertible electric? I’d much rather have something small and sporty getting 100+ miles per charge than a larger bla sedan getting 40. I think the market is there if you will build the car.
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May 17th, 2009 (11:41 am)Noel Park #8-
“Cars like the Chrysler Airstream, the Tucker, the 1953 Raymond Lowey Studebaker, the original Honda Insight, and the EV1, all made brilliant design statements by trying to work efficiently with the air (JMHO). Even though they were all arguably ahead of their times, I hope that future design trends go in these, and even more innovative, directions.”
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With the exception of the Studebaker, all those cars were a sales failure or disappointment and the Studebaker never sold in large numbers. Basically, if you want your design to be a big success and appeal to more than just efficiency geeks, you can’t just let the wind tunnel do the styling. Human emotions will never be logical, and so car styling can never be dominated by logic.
The above Fisker is a great example. People here are going on about how beautiful it is, but my guess is that it’s CD is about the same as the original Volt concept or worse. However, this concept is much closer to what most people actually want.
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May 17th, 2009 (9:41 pm)People want stupid things. Make the most efficient car. Don’t compromise my electric range for some superficial people’s preferences.
Most people have normal looking cars anyway. (Hence “normal.”) Soccer moms are not going to drive in Fisker style.
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May 17th, 2009 (11:29 pm)One design change that might catch on with all-electric cars is a standardized chassis design that several car makers can share and just add the car body.
Think of it as an open source chassis (except it’s not free).
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May 18th, 2009 (1:33 am)Dan Petit,
Thank you for your great post. You made many good points about the inherent limitations of BEV, in a world not speckled with ultra-fast-charging stations.
One other thing I would add is that even if you do not run into one of the bad scenarios you mention, it would take extremely long to charge the batteries on a high-capacity vehicle like the Tesla. I’m guessing that recharging from near total depletion of a huge 240 mile lithium pack could take 24 hours on a standard outlet. What if you already drove a lot and then an hour after you got home, some emergency came up? Or what if you get in really late at night and can’t sufficiently recharge to leave the next morning?
The Tesla is real neat and will be fine for most people most of the time, but people want a car to be reliable for those other times too. The Volt can be your only car. If you’re rich enough to afford a Telsa, I imagine you’ll probably keep a gas vehicle as a backup to handle those emergency situations– rr maybe a Volt… haha!
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May 18th, 2009 (9:44 am)1. Form follows function. What is beautiful is what works well. (i.e. make sure electrics have a sport mode in addition to the crappy full gasser emulation algorythm. I want hard core torque and massive regen braking for those times I want to drive it like an F1 car with KERS. You see those things pull away when they push the KERS button?)
2. Since an electric drivetrain takes less room than an ICE drivetrain and has more more flexibility in placement, electric drive removes contraints, not add them.
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May 18th, 2009 (8:01 pm)GM needs to work VERY hard on the exteriors of ALL their cars … especially the upcoming Voltec vehicles. I want to see GM make a huge comeback in the auto industry.
They gotta meet and EXCEED what the competition is doing. That’s the reality of the auto industry. These days, it looks like GM needs to make damn sure that they are keeping up with TOYOTA especially … and Honda, VW, Hyundai, Mercedes, BMW, etc.
When GM gets the WHOLE package of the exterior, interior and the technology under the hood just right and the cars get good reviews from the automotive press, JD Power, Consumer Reports and so forth … THAT is when GM is going to come roaring back. They’ll be selling cars and trucks like crazy.
I want BESTSELLERS in each segment … AWARD WINNERS … flagship cars that people like to brag about at parties and all that. America loves to hear comeback stories. I’m hoping that GM is going to be on the cover of all sorts of magazines in a few years with stories talking about how they turned everything around.
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May 29th, 2009 (8:29 am)