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Hybrid Buick Business MPV Concept Revealed

April 21st, 2009 | Posted in: Buick, Hybrid

By the looks and underpinnings of this car, Buick’s future seems to be shining.

GM revealed this quite striking new multipurpose vehicle at the Shanghai Auto Show in China and is calling the it the Business Concept. The vehicle was developed at the Pan Asia Technical Automotive Center (PATAC), a joint effort with General Motors and Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC).

It uses strong Buick visual cues to create an elegantly sculpted exterior intended to make a statement. The concept includes LED headlamps and a strong purple color.

Deep burgundy suede carpet, wood tones, and blue ambient lighting create a board room atmosphere inside.

Perhaps more importantly, the car is the first example using GM’s next generation BAS+ lithium ion hybrid system. This system achieves a 20% efficiency improvement over current BAS hybrids providing auto off, electric boost, regenerative braking, and brief electric only propulsion.

It is unknown if this car will be produced at all let alone in the US, but its tall stature and use of the global compact delta platform would enable it to be fitted with the Voltec extended-range electric drivetrain. And although GM has not commented, conceivably this could represent GMs third electric car.

However, GM spokesperson Mike Albano tell us “The MPV does not have a Voltec. At this point it is only intended to be a product in China, where demand for a Buick MPV remains strong, but we continue to monitor other markets that could use an MPV of this size.”

Full Press Release (photo gallery at bottom):
Buick Business Concept Vehicle Unveiled in Shanghai

• Embodies Buick’s New Global Design Language in an MPV
• Leading MPV Trend in China, Designed for China’s Business Elite

SHANGHAI, April 20, 2009 – The Buick Business Concept, a new concept vehicle designed to showcase Buick’s future vision of “business class on the road,” made its global debut today at Auto Shanghai 2009.

The multi-purpose vehicle (MPV) was developed in China by the Pan Asia Technical Automotive Center (PATAC), a design and engineering joint venture between General Motors and Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC), with global design input. It was unveiled today by GM President and CEO Fritz Henderson and SAIC Chairman Hu Maoyuan.

The Business Concept Vehicle captures the essence of the Buick form language in a thoroughly elegant and expressive design, with its taut surfaces, double sweep spear belt line, strong front and rear identities and dynamic presence.

“The Business Concept Vehicle has a grand presence and makes a strong statement when it pulls up to the front of any establishment,” said Ed Welburn, GM Vice President of Global Design. “The Chinese market and business person have some unique requirements. Our team has responded with an elegant solution to their business and personal needs.”

Classic Influences in Modern Design

According to Cao Min, PATAC Concept Car Chief Designer, the design team set out to create a modern global design for Buick, yet include a subtle Chinese essence and influence. To achieve this balance, they sought to draw from their heritage outside the automotive industry – from classic shapes to arts and ancient relics.

The Business Concept Vehicle’s dynamic exterior surfaces and “yin and yang” interior tones are drawn from diverse inspirations including the 2008 Buick Riviera concept car, Chinese artifacts and modern electronic icons. The vehicle, inside and out, communicates an orderly elegance that transcends cultural boundaries and conveys the tranquility and power of Buick.

Exterior Design – A Sense of Presence and Buick Essence

To establish their design direction, PATAC designers took the global Buick design vocabulary of sculpturally beautiful and dynamic forms established by the Riviera concept car and successfully extended it to a tall, one-box architecture.

The Business Concept Vehicle develops the Buick form language further and incorporates elements of Chinese culture and artistic influences into the details. It takes the Buick design treatment to a new level of sophisticated boldness.

The famous Buick waterfall grille takes on a bolder treatment. Intricate detailing gives it an even more prominent look. The backlit Buick tri-shield logo leads into the distinctive mid-hood crease prevalent in classic Buicks and consistent across the new Buick line today.

The prominent LED headlamps show influences of popular Chinese liuli glass through three-dimensional transparent and multifaceted surfaces. Liuli is a Chinese crystal sculpture art form that incorporates cultural and modern references. It has become a popular symbol of modern Chinese prosperity.

The elongated, jewel-like headlamps are connected to the body shoulder line through a strong chrome accent that flows the length of the vehicle from the hood to the body sides, accentuating a strong double sweep spear design until it finally comes to rest wrapped around the taillights. This is the most distinctive design element of the Business Concept Vehicle, as it offers a modern approach to the classic Buick double sweep spear. Familiar Buick portholes are gracefully integrated into the chrome strip extending from the headlamps.

This distinctive double sweep spear shape not only provides expressive dynamism to the vehicle profile, it is also functionally important. It defines the window line from the body sides and incorporates the rail guides for the power sliding doors. Additionally, it lowers the rear passenger sightline and adds significant shoulder room to the rear compartment.

“This vehicle was inspired by the grace and gesture of great Buicks. PATAC designers have cleverly incorporated other design cues from traditional Chinese art, such as applying a huiwen motif on the turn signals and fog lamps,” Cao Min said.

The Zitan Purple exterior color was chosen to elicit the right level of attention and respect. The color is found in rare zitan wood used for sculptures and fine Chinese furniture. This deep burnt-purple color perfectly highlights the concept’s grandeur.

Power sliding doors with no B-pillar were selected for their ability to showcase an expansive view of the interior and ease of entrance and egress.

The Business Concept Vehicle sits on 20-inch, 9-spoke forged aluminum wheels, with a polished mirror finish, and low-profile tires. The outside mirrors incorporate turn signals with the huiwen motif.

Interior Design – Functionality and Soothing Serenity

Serenity and advanced functionality come to mind when entering the vehicle. The use of deep burgundy suede and subtle creams, representing earth and wood themes, are conveyed through high-quality leather bucket seats, plush vehicle carpet and a luxurious padded steering wheel. Completing the tranquil feel is a roof comprised of two full-length sunroofs that offer a celestial connection for occupants.

“Through deep burgundy suede carpet, high-quality leather interior decoration with liuli and soft, ice blue ambient lighting, we wanted to create a mobile VIP lounge for passengers,” Cao Min said.

Interior trim and features befitting Buick prestige abound such as a power central console with a deployable tablet for writing or to hold a laptop computer. The console can be moved up and down the two rows of rear seats. The second row of power captain’s chairs slide on hidden rails and swivel 225 degrees, enabling them to be adjusted to an infinite combination of orientations. Traditional huiwen patterns are embroidered onto the seats and seat backs, bringing harmony to the entire design theme.

The three-dimensional instrument cluster reaches across the entire width of the front panel and features a multi-layer information display. The instrument cluster design reflects the liuli art influence but is utterly modern in design. It is complemented by a central console with touch pad controls on either side of a cylinder-shaped roller mouse. A large LED display crowns the central console. Once again, the huiwen motif shows up as details on the wings of the instrument panel.

The OnStar security telematics feature is easily accessible on the rearview mirror, with three prominently yet tastefully displayed call buttons.

“The design of the vehicle inherits Buick’s vision for business class on the road, creating a sense that space means possibility,” Cao Min said.

Next-Generation GM Hybrid System

PATAC designed the Buick Business Concept Vehicle to accommodate the next-generation GM Hybrid System, which will be introduced in China in the near future.

The next-generation GM Hybrid System will build upon the successful belt-alternator-starter hybrid technology currently available in the Buick LaCrosse Eco-Hybrid. An advanced lithium-ion battery will help make the next-generation GM Hybrid System more powerful than the current system, improving fuel economy of vehicles with this system by up to 20 percent, depending on engine and vehicle application.

The next-generation GM Hybrid System helps optimize fuel efficiency and reduce emissions by:
• Turning the engine off at idle
• Offering brief electric-only propulsion
• Using a more powerful electric motor to enhance engine efficiency
• Extending fuel cutoff during deceleration
• Extending regenerative braking to recapture more energy
• Performing intelligent hybrid battery charging

Posted by: Lyle

188 Responses to “Hybrid Buick Business MPV Concept Revealed”

Natan Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 5:45 am

I wish it was electric car

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BillR Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 5:51 am

Hybrid today, Voltec tomorrow.

Depending upon vehicle cost, electric rates/availability, and other factors (subsidized fuel prices in China), this new Buick could be provided with either propulsion system.

Nice looking vehicle!

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Exp_EngTech Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:06 am

Interesting vehicle.

Where is that 7th seat ?

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gsned57 Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:34 am

Looks like batman’s minivan. I’m not convinced of the body. But if they made a voltec minivan, I’d buy it even if it looked like the Oscar Meyer van.

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RB Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:35 am

Nice looking Buick with attractive Chinese decor.
Wonder what the cd and mpg numbers will look like, should the concept go to production.

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Schmeltz Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:49 am

I like it and I think it would be a great compliment to the Buick line here in the U.S. #1 Natan is right, they need to make this a Voltec too.

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statik Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:51 am

Wow…that is a long thread article.

Even though Buick has not had a ton of success in this segment, I really like the look and stylng clues of this concept. (Obviously, a good deal of this would not make it to production….but still pretty good).

I’m not sure the ‘hybrid’ system is really that essential. I’m not convinced of GM’s strategy of putting a premium priced system like this…on a premium priced vehicle. If they had a stripped down cousin for Chevy maybe it would make more sense. I imagine that this option would translate into very few sales, akin to other premium package ‘hybrid’ options….but not a big blow to it being a decent product overall.

Side note: Why the frig did Chrysler get 500 million in ’short-term’ aid to get to their deadline?…it is all of 9 days away, and the gov’t doesn’t want to back them even if they make it. I can understand GM (sorta) getting 5 billion to go to June 1st, thats 5 weeks…and they have already decided that GM survives in or out of bankruptcy, so they need to keep the business ‘as usual’ sign in the window going forward for their critical systems/suppliers.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:55 am

Does nothing for me. It is a concept that will undoubtedly change.
No point in getting excited.

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Jim I Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:59 am

Personal opinion: I don’t really like it. Sorry. A mini-van by any other name is still a mini-van…..

So what will we be talking about today?

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Jason M. Hendler Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:05 am

Statik,

I suspect Chrysler got the bridge loan so that all parties can close the negotiations. If a deal was not at hand, then no money would have been given.

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old man Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:17 am

In China, probably. But this Buick owner of many years would not be interested. But bear in mind I am not a person with small rug rats to haul around. I just do not see the usual Buick owner wanting this vehicle.
The Orlando will fit our market much better.IMHO

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Schmeltz Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:27 am

Not that it matters to me that much, but really now…why is this being called an “MPV”??? Gee whiz, it’s a mini-van. A rose by any other name…

On another note, I saw that “bridge loan to Chrysler and GM” article too and was sort of puzzled by the Chrysler part. Ok, really puzzled. I don’t understand, I mean I thought the Obama administration is getting “down and tough” with these Automakers and is “demanding everyone to come to the table” and “not throwing good money after bad”, blah, blah, blah. Seriously now, how is throwing another $500 million at Chrysler a positive? Someone please enlighten me. (Cynicism mode off now).

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Bearclaw Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:39 am

Couldn’t they have thought of a better name. Calling the car “Business” coming from a company who hasn’t been able to run a successful business. Obviously they still can’t make the numbers add up if they can’t even count to 7. It does look pretty cool all kidding aside. The back seats look unremovable and the only board room cue I could see was the swivel chairs in the middle.

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Campy Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:47 am

Concept concept concept concept concept

I am so sick of hearing that word from GM these days. WORK ON REAL CARS.

Has GM ever produced one of their concepts? What a total waste of resources.

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Eco Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:49 am

Really nice concept.

As a family guy who likes road trips, it would be great. I also like the rear sliding doors.

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Adrian Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:53 am

Buick really has really got it going. First the Enclave, then the very impressive LaCrosse… and now this beauty. I remember when Tiger Woods demanded better looking cars if he was going to be their lead spokeperson. If he had any influence in getting Buick to design good carsm two thumbs up.

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monkeyh8r Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 8:22 am

Even if I had a personal visit from Babi, the Sacred Baboon and he told me to buy one of these for his family, I would not. My days of blind loayalty are over.

/I’m committed to posting random nonsense until Lyle posts his review. Like a non-violent protest. Just the way I roll.

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Texas Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 8:35 am

I think they forgot the solar panels on the roof.

Anyway, a Voltec version of this would be great. It’s a practical vehicle for a family.

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Starcast Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 8:39 am

Never been a mini-van fan.

Others may like it, But give me a PU, SUV or car any day.

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k-dawg Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 8:43 am

I like the swivel chairs.. reminds me of riding on Asian trains. As long as my knees dont knock the person’s behind me. Wonder what this would cost in China. Would be a good company vehicle for moving exec’s around.

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k-dawg Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 8:45 am

Looks like someone is buying Opel. Do they get the Ampera too?
——–
Four financial and two strategic investors are in discussions with General Motors Corp. (GM) to acquire a majority stake in Opel for at least EUR500 million ($646 million), Reuters reported Monday, citing an unnamed banker close to the negotiations.

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GregL Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 8:46 am

I personally love the minivan and if GM/Buick were to release this in the US I would be very interested. Even more so with a voltec drivetrain/powerplant.

I sure hope it’s not too late for GM, and if it is, the advanced vehicle team is purchased by someone that will actually make new cars happen like now.

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Evil Conservative Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 8:51 am

#3 RE: 7th seat?

I bet you can get a full bench seat in the rear OR a bench seat in the middle row to get to the 7 seats. (like the Outlook, Acadia, Traverse or Buick’s version which I can’t remember right now) Heck get two and seat 8 then Buick can call it the worlds first 8 seat hybrid …… that is IF it is ever built ….. not holding my breath.

Figure that it gets 20% over the Outlook in fuel savings that is 22 city and 29 highway ….. not bad for a 7 passenger I guess.

Put in Voltec and I bet you could get 25-30 all electric miles and 35 – 40 MPG after that. Much better but would cost about $10,000 more. $50,000 for a mini-van? I don’t think so.

Just guessing on the numbers but I’m sure Static can break it down much better.

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NZDavid Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 8:53 am

Whether I like it or not is irrelevant.

NO plug, NO sale
LJGTVWOTR

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Edwin Mang Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:04 am

Do you think all of these $15,000 to $20,000 car’s out of asia can convince the UAW that it is their wages and costs they impose on the industry that makes a US car cost $40,000 or more ?
Or will US industry move to Asia ?

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PLJ Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:08 am

old man @11 says:
“I just do not see the usual Buick owner wanting this vehicle.”
—————————————–
Yeh, I thought the same thing, having owned a couple Buicks myself.

But, remember this one is intended for the Chinese market. Different kettle o’ fish over there.

By the way, just how “old” are you? If you don’t mind my asking.

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Dave G Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:11 am

Guys, remember that this is built on the global compact delta platform. It’s a compact car. It’s probably to be closer in size to a Toyota Matrix than a minivan. In other words, it’s more like a station wagon that manages to squeeze in 3 rows of seats. It’s small.

People are calling these types of vehicles “micro-vans” or MPVs.

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N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:14 am

I must admit that I am very pleased with the design of this vehicle. I especially like the lower belt line for the rear passengers. I have not liked the continually rising belt line on similar vehicles. Buick and GM have a winner here if they can produce it. It would be an even bigger winner with better fuel savings. A 20% savings is a very small amount of savings. If it got 15 mpg before the hybrid system, that would only give it a 3 mpg gain. GM needs a better hybrid system that gives over 50% minimum gains. That or put the Voltec system in it.

But yes, it is a beautiful vehicle.

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Edwin Mang Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:14 am

54 Years and 3,000 in old school . But in these hard times can the UAW buy enough of the cars they build to stay in bussiness ?

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Dave G Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:19 am

#26 PLJ Says:
old man @11 says:
“I just do not see the usual Buick owner wanting this vehicle.”
—————————————–
Yeh, I thought the same thing, having owned a couple Buicks myself.
======================================================
It appears GM will lose Saab, Hummer, Pontiac, Saturn, and GMC in the coming reorganization. There doesn’t seem to be enough business for GM to justify more than 3 brands. So that leaves Chevy, Buick, and Cadillac.

With this in mind, I believe Buick may try to attract new customers beyond their traditional customer base with new types of vehicles like this.

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PLJ Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:28 am

Dave G @30:

Good point.

It’s a new world out there, to make an understatement.

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Edwin Mang Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:29 am

If the UAW does not allow the corp . to become solvent and continues to impose high wages on it the UAW goes .
If they give them a way to become solvent the UAW stays and gets the pay returned to neer to current .
The Man from Black Well is not going to play .

God Bless
TIGER .

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MarkH Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:30 am

The article is missing something … Ricardo Montalban in a white suit perhaps. I don’t believe opulence and the minivan market would be successful match.
Are they looking at Tesla’s market, the well-heeled early adopter’s? This might work for Madonna or Brad Pitt, but I can’t imagine a captain of industry behind the wheel.
Perhaps I just don’t understand Chinese culture.

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Edwin Mang Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:31 am

Perhaps I should say .

God Bless You All .

From TIGER .

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ThombDbhomb Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:34 am

Yeah! 7-seat Chinese fire drills!

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RB Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:35 am

#12 Schmeltz asks
On another note, I saw that “bridge loan to Chrysler and GM” article too and was sort of puzzled by the Chrysler part. Ok, really puzzled. I don’t understand, I mean I thought the Obama administration is getting “down and tough” with these Automakers and is “demanding everyone to come to the table” and “not throwing good money after bad”, blah, blah, blah. Seriously now, how is throwing another $500 million at Chrysler a positive? Someone please enlighten me.
————————————————————-

Just kicking the can on down the road, I think.
There’s an interesting dynamic at play here. Back in December, the question was whether or not to give money to automakers, and that was a big decision. But money was given in the form of “loans” and given again by the Obama administration. Now people at lower levels handle what happens. Now they keep paying, because not to pay would seem to contradict administration policy and would be big news (layoffs) and thus would require special justification. Pay again, and it is lots of taxpayer money but not news. It is the same inertia that is present in most government programs, always easier just to keep doing whatever the government is doing.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:40 am

Yo dawg we heard you like multipurpose so we put some purpose in your purpose so you can purpose while you purpose

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Hybrid Warfare Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:40 am

Oh yeah, It’s ON !

Toyota is reducing the price of the Prius by thousands$$.

This is to compete with the new Honda Insight.

The Insight sticker price starts at $19,800.

Honda Insight rated at 41 MPG and Prius is at 50 MPG.

With these prices (half of what a Volt costs) they still cannot sell them all. (Prius sales are down 43% so far this year)

I predict both of these will be outselling all combined Voltec cars for years to come. The Volt is priced too high.

GM got its work cut out for them to make the Volt popular.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:43 am

I expect CaptJack to replace the rear two rows with a waterbed.

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PLJ Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:45 am

FOX news just had a spot on Bright Automotive. They have a small commercial hybrid van that they say gets 100 mpg.

They need funding though so they were in Washington for handout.

I don’t know… It is my understanding that GM has something like 600 full-time engineers, designers, etc. working on the Chevy Volt, its batteries and all its subsystems. They have a building the size of a football field. I have great respect for entrepreneurs, but I just don’t see how a startup company can compete with that level of commitment and experience unless they have an ace up their sleeve with some patented technology.

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Dave G Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:50 am

#33 MarkH Says:
The article is missing something … Ricardo Montalban in a white suit perhaps. I don’t believe opulence and the minivan market would be successful match.
————————————————————————————–
… and Corinthian leather!

But seriously:

First, note that this is not a minivan. It uses the compact delta platform. It’s much smaller than a typical American minivan.

Second, as you say, the Chinese market is a mystery to us, but they seem to crave Buicks, and are willing to pay a lot more for them. Now throw in higher fuel costs, and the need for businesses to move multiple people from here to there, and voilà, you have the luxury small people mover Buick.

For the U.S., I believe GM should offer this or the similar Orlando as a less expensive car, without the luxury features. This would not only be for families, but also for anyone that wants some cargo space in a relatively small vehicle.

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old man Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:55 am

#26 PLJ

I’m really not that old, 67 at least I don’t feel that old.

About 20 years ago I was having fun picking with my Grand daughter about how young she was and she would pick back about me being old. Somehow she called me old man and it became her fun name for me. She is now 26 and hasn’t called me that for years but it still makes me smile when I think about it so its my Volt name.

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BBM Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:56 am

If anyone at GM is looking, I would very strongly consider this vehicle for my family. The sliding doors are key for my wife.

Of course, a Voltec version would be great.

We are in the market for a minivan type of vehicle in the near future (eg with plenty of storage space being more important than 7 seat capacity.

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MarkH Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:57 am

I would expect CaptJack to replace the rear two rows with a Voltec battery pack. If he chose to place a waterbed over that, I’m sure he would get quite a charge out of it.

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zipdrive Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:00 am

MarkH @ 33 says: “The article is missing something … Ricardo Montalban in a white suit…”
———————————————————————–
Ricardo Montalban died in January of this year. He was a Chrysler pitchman anyway.

What a great actor and wonderful career he had. Truly a one-of-kind guy.

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PLJ Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:07 am

old man says to #26 PLJ:
“I’m really not that old, 67 at least I don’t feel that old.
About 20 years ago I was having fun picking with my Grand daughter about how young she was and she would pick back about me being old. Somehow she called me old man and it became her fun name for me. She is now 26 and hasn’t called me that for years but it still makes me smile when I think about it so its my Volt name.”

————————————————

Well, old man, I am told that 67 is the new 57. So hey, you’re still “middle aged.”

“old man” has a better ring to it though.

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Electric Vehicle Owner Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:10 am

A seven seater crossover. hmmmm….

How does the at vehicle efficiency (# kWh / 100 miles) compare with the beautiful seven seater Tesla Model S? Still, GM using li-ion and a hybrid system means it’s plug in capable and will likely get great efficiency for a batgirl / soccer mom mobile.

I like this use of the Buick brand. It gives the whole concept class and credibility. It feels like safety, security, solid and useful performance and good looks for what it is. Perfect for hauling the little league in efficiency with mainstream function, style and values.

Maybe GM really does get it (cough, you have to PUT THEM ON THE ROAD IN REGULAR CONSUMERS’ HANDS).

p.s. Maybe the after market can do Japanese bullet train retractable cat ear brakes on top?

p.p.s. I could so see the off road crowd ripping out the back seats, throwing in extra electric drive performance and more power packs, adding off road suspension and crushing Hummers with this in the intense off road Dakar Rally. OMG – hard core off road electric drive Buick crossover – faints with pleasure. Do it up and give one to the Governator to romp with. The PR would be PRICELESS.

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Dave G Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:11 am

#38 Hybrid Warfare Says: Toyota is reducing the price of the Prius by thousands$$. This is to compete with the new Honda Insight… I predict both of these will be outselling all combined Voltec cars for years to come. The Volt is priced too high.
————————————————————————————–
The Volt will probably be priced around $29,000.

GM VP John Lauckner indicated he expects the Volt to be priced in the mid 30s:
http://gm-volt.com/2008/10/17/car-and-driver-on-the-volt-tens-of-thousands-in-first-year-generation-two-after-5-years/
and the government is issuing a $7500 tax credit.

The Prius is priced at $22,000, but remember that Toyota’s base models are somewhat stripped down, so a well equipped Prius will cost around $25,000.

Yes, Toyota is discounting the Prius by thousands of $$ right now, for 2 reasons:
1) They have a lot of 2009 models to move , and the improved 2010 models are almost here.
2) The economy is in the toilet, so they have to make really good deals to move cars right now.
But these things should both pass by November 2010.

Now realize that most people don’t buy a Prius to save money. If they wanted to save money, they would buy a Corolla for $15,000. So people are willing to spend a little more for energy independence and the environment.

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Takeo Fukui Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:14 am

Make no mistake, Honda makes the best Hybrid on the American Highway today. We have a pleasant surprise for the Volt in 2010. Never under estimate the ingenuity of the Honda Engineer, the world’s finest.

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Schmeltz Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:17 am

#36 RB said regarding more gov’t. money being provided to Chrysler: “Just kicking the can on down the road, I think.”
————————————————————————–

Yeah, I think that is it in a nutshell too. Although it still seems futile when the outcome for Chrysler looks pretty bad already.

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Tagamet Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:17 am

NZDavid@24 said:
“NO plug, NO sale
LJGTVWOTR”

Ditto.
Be well,
Yang, er I mean Tag
PS: Yang has 25% more letters than Yin

LJGTVWOTR!!********NPNS********Independence (from oil) Day, 2010

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Edwin Mang Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:18 am

I set up the Bussiness model for US auto makers and it will work only if the Corp’s are solvent at the start .
With my IQ est to be 167 I know what I set up and how it will work .
Plus I have years of making a bussiness work for my father that should have lost money . Ford can make it as they have cut 38% of their debt in the last six months . GM needs help or it will be lost to bankrupsey . If you know a UAW worker explaine it to him .
I know what will not work as does FORD .

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Edwin Mang Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:21 am

As Scotty in StarTrek allways said you put a 10% fudge factor in all that you do so you are a genuis and worker of wonders .

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Edwin Mang Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:23 am

I like the van but find that most sitting backward get sick .
US army and aircraft .

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PLJ Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:25 am

CNN just had a spot on electric vehicles – a Segway, some motorcycles and the Tesla.

The electric movement is really starting to get noticed!

But at one point the anchorman says to the reporter who just got in the Tesla “can you crank it up?”

I almost laughed, but it was too sad.

So we still have a LONG way to go with educating people what this is all about.

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Takeo Fukui Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:27 am

We will be getting our super advanced Li-ion batteries from GS Yuasa Corp (The largest car battery maker in Asia). They have assured us of ample capacity (500,000+) to crush any attempt by the Volt to dominate our hybrid space. We enjoy GM competition, which brings out the best in our great engineers. Never underestimate the Japanese. Our friends at Toyota have similar plans for 2010. Do not get over confident with legacy Voltec technology, we have more wonderful surprises for the Americans on the way. We are watching you very carefully and learn much from your many, many mistakes in automotive engineering. At Honda we enjoy this time very much.

(Quote)
Chia Bush Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:29 am

Excerpt from Chia Bush’s post from the previous thread:

“China may be the country that leads the switch to electric vehicles because there is a significant need in Chinese cities for small electric vehicles… you could see growth quite fast, maybe faster than other places in the world,” he [General Motors Asia Pacific president Nick Reilly] told reporters.

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Dave G Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:32 am

#47 Electric Vehicle Owner Says: How does the at vehicle efficiency (# kWh / 100 miles) compare with the beautiful seven seater Tesla Model S? Still, GM using li-ion and a hybrid system means it’s plug in capable and will likely get great efficiency for a batgirl / soccer mom mobile.
————————————————————————————–
From the reviews, it appears that the Tesla Model S rear seats only work for smaller kids (or dwarves).

Note that this Buick is not a CUV or minivan. It’s built on a compact car platform. It’s probably closer in size to a Toyota Matrix. As such, it seems perfectly suited to use the exact same drivetrain as the Volt. Yes, it would be a little less sporty, but that’s what most people would expect from such a car.

Also, I think its wrong to assume these vehicles are for soccer-moms. There are a lot of active young people that would like a small car with the ability to carry significant cargo and/or people. There are many scenarios for this this type of vehicle, most of which don’t involve children.

(Quote)
James Tiberius Kirk Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:38 am

I love my new Honda Insight.
Don’t believe that 41mpg on sticker, I am getting 52 mpg in everyday freeway traffic.

(Quote)
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:38 am

#56 Takeo Fukui

Trolling?

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Dave G Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:38 am

#56 Takeo Fukui,

If Honda or Toyota built a hybrid with 40-miles of all-electric range, then I would be very interested to buy one. But so far, there have been no announcements of anything close to this. Let us know when you have something to announce…

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ThombDbhomb Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:40 am

#59 James Tiberius Kirk

The Insight’s out-sight seems limited; I found the rear visibility lacking.

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Dave G Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:45 am

#60 ThombDbhomb Says:
#56 Takeo Fukui
Trolling?
————————————————————————————–
More likely one of our own trying to shake the tree.

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N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:46 am

#30 Dave G

I agree with Buick trying to attract new customers. They will try to attract as many of the Pontiac customers as they can and some of the GMC non-truck customers will go there also. I hope Chevrolet can offer some Pontiac and GMC customers a new home also. Don’t want to see them leave the GM fold, if at all possible. Same for Saturn.

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David K (CT) Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:53 am

N Riley @ 64 says…

#30 Dave G

I agree with Buick trying to attract new customers. They will try to attract as many of the Pontiac customers as they can and some of the GMC non-truck customers will go there also. I hope Chevrolet can offer some Pontiac and GMC customers a new home also. Don’t want to see them leave the GM fold, if at all possible. Same for Saturn.
———————————————-

Well, if I was going to replace my GMC Sierra with another truck, it would be a Silverado. There really is no difference (grille & tailgate).

I would simply get all the “extras” with the Silverado.

Right now I’m waiting for a Blue Volt.

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PLJ Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:53 am

Takeo Fukui @ 56 says:

“We enjoy GM competition, which brings out the best in our great engineers. Never underestimate the Japanese. Our friends at Toyota have similar plans for 2010. Do not get over confident with legacy Voltec technology, we have more wonderful surprises for the Americans on the way. We are watching you very carefully and learn much from your many, many mistakes in automotive engineering. At Honda we enjoy this.”
————————————————————-

You say you “enjoy” GM competition but in the same breath you say you want to “crush any attempt by the Volt to dominate our hybrid space.”

If you enjoy competition why don’t you get your Japanese government up open up your borders to REAL free trade. Your JAPAN INC. doesn’t allow any real competition, so quit lying.

Read this if you don’t know what I’m talking about:
http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html

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N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 10:55 am

#42 Old Man

That is a nice story. I can see why you are proud to be called “old man”. I would be too. I am 65 with two grandsons (8 & 5) and one step-granddaughter (6). I love them dearly. I bet you still want her to call you “old man” at times.

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noel park Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:02 am

#8 Rashiid Amul, #9 Jim I, #11 old man:

I agree.

#10 Jason M. Hendler:

I sure hope so.

#17 monkeyh8r:

LOL!!

#21 kdawg:

Wow! The biggest news here today, if true.

#24 NZDavid & # 51 Tagamet:

Right. Heavy on the NPNS!

#28 N Riley:

Amen on the better hybrid. Spare me the BAS. A PR device so that you can put a hybrid badge on the back, IMHO. How embarassing.

#41 Dave G:

Amen on the Orlando.

You guys were on a roll yesterday, and you are carrying it through to today. Excellent work. Blog on!

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Dave K. Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:06 am

I would like to see every auto manufacturer getting into the E-REV business. Quiet clean running cars that are not in line to make a weekly donation to the foreign oil factor.

Having many forms of E-REV for purchase will interest many who would otherwise shoot down the limited or unwanted features of the few.

=D~

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N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:06 am

#55 PLJ

I understand your feeling like laughing about the CNN host asking if the reporter can “crank it up”. News reporters and show host seem at a loss for a lot of things. They seem so shallow sometimes that I really wonder at the level of intelligence of some of them. If it wasn’t so sad, I would be laughing at them all the time.

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noel park Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:10 am

#49 & #56 Takeo Fukui:

The great Honda engineers really set the world on fire in F1, didn’t they. Couldn’t get a result after spending $100s of millions. I wonder how much that is in Yen?

Dumped the team off to Ross Brawn, who plugged in a Mercedes engine and won the first race out of the box.

I have a lot of respect for Honda but, as my old friend Ernie Dias always says:

“Nobody’s perfect.” LOL.

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Electric Vehicle Owner Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:11 am

PLJ 55
“So we still have a LONG way to go with educating people what this is all about.”

Yep, it’s all about the incredible off the line performance, sensation and sound of electric drive. That’s more addictive than nicotine and caffeine together.

Electric hoons rule! It’s not our fault if we also save the planet, improve national security and vehicle efficiency and save money at the same time by accident. It’s all about the screamingly good off the line performance of electric drive for me.

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N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:14 am

#66 PLJ

Ditto double for me, too. It is about time the Japanese experienced some real competition in their markets. The people of Japan have been held hostage by their government and business interest for many years. I admit Japan makes some great products (most of which are based on U.S. designs and patents). Clever Japanese, yes. But our enemy when it comes to trade and economics. I don’t blame them. I blame ourselves for allowing it to happen and us continuing to purchase their products. Maybe we in this country will wake up some day soon. Problem is, it will probably be too late to do anything about it.

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Takeo Fukui Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:16 am

@66 PLJ:

I would like to inform you that Japan allows American cars to sell in our country. Unfortunately, they are not very popular, have very poor quality and are priced too high. Japan is a very small country and does not sell as many cars as Europe, America and China, so GM will never sell many cars here even if they are popular. Japan just does not like inferior products. We pride ourselves on Quality. This GM can never match. Japan is the global leader in automotive technology, never forget this. Japan dominates the Hybrid sector and will not allow any foreign entity (American or otherwise) to take away this lawful right. Do not be sad American as we intend to eventually dominate the Chinese auto industry just like we conquered the Americans. Resistance is futile. Your fate has been sealed. We really do enjoy the times we are in. It is a wonderful period. Everyone should be very happy. What is good for Honda is good for the world. You Americans must cheer up, you are still good at military defense.

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N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:22 am

#74 Takeo Fukui

Tolling, trolling, trolling. Keep up the talk. Just remember who protects your homeland. It might not be there in a few years. Some in congress want to pull back all our forces and they have many friends in the administration. It is stupid, but we have been stupid before. You may end up “owning” the Chinese market, but China will end up “owning” Japan. Like it or not.

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Evil Conservative Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:24 am

Takeo Fukui is funny.

Enough said.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:33 am

Looks like the 2010 Prius will have a $21,000 price tag…

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/21/toyota-to-take-on-insight-by-cutting-prius-base-price-to-21-000/

“The automaker has apparently decided to cut the base price of the Prius by $1,000 to $21,000, only $1,200 more than the Honda. “

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:36 am

#77 CaptJackSparrow

If the Prius is only $1200 over the Insight, most people may go for the Toyota because it has more room inside. But we are talking about a base Prius against the base Honda which will be dressed out better than the Toyota. It will be an interesting fight to watch to see who wins. I am pulling for neither one.

(Quote)
Takeo Fukui Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:36 am

@76 Evil Conservative:

Americans be funny.

That is why we smile so much.

(Quote)
PLJ Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:40 am

To Takeo Fukui:

Your JAPAN INC. gives lip service to free trade, but the reality is that American business is effectively shut out of your market. Read the report if you don’t know what I’m talking about. http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html

Furthermore, Buick makes the the highest quality vehicle on the planet now. So General Motors HAS matched your quality and even gone beyond it.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/19/jaguar-and-buick-upset-lexus-in-j-d-power-2009-vehicle-

You also say: “Japan is the global leader in automotive technology, never forget this.”

No, Japan is the global FOLLOWER in virtually every field. Japan invents very little. It depends on Americans and Europeans to invent something, after which it improves, very nicely, on the technology developed by others. Hybrid technology was invented in America in the 1970’s. Well done on running with that ball.

Will you do the same with VOLT technology?

(Quote)
CaptJackSparrow Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:42 am

@N Riley 78

“If the Prius is only $1200 over the Insight, most people will go for the Toyota because it has more room inside.”

I’m going to test drive an Insight tomorrow. I just called the local Honda folks and they said they have 3 in right now. I drove a Prius so I want to compare the older Prius to the Insight then later test drive the 2010 Prius. I’m just curious on how/when the ICE kicks on.

(Quote)
Takeo Fukui Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:46 am

@80 PLJ:

I think it is very clear who the leader is (we follow nobody).
I would invite you to check the Scoreboard (aka Sales).
Yes Americans, how you say it:

Japan Got Scoreboard !
+1

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Eloh Gnub Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:49 am

Slow news day. Might as well pick on Take o Fuk. The US was instrumental in Japan’s post-WWII economic success (e.g., Toyota was on the brink of collapse when large US orders revived it). 20/20 hindsight suggests we should have taken a direct equity stake in Japan. Our venture capital investments warranted controlling interest, but in the interests of face-saving for the Japanese, 49% would have been fair.

(Quote)
zipdrive Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:52 am

Mr Takeo fukui says: “We are watching you very carefully…Resistance is futile… Your fate has been sealed.”
—————————————————-
These are nice Nazi/Fascist phrases that are a blatant attempt to psychologically cave-in and demoralize an enemy.

Mr. Takeo, WORLD WAR TWO IS OVER!

Please come up to the 21st Century.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:58 am

#81 CaptJackSparrow

“I’m just curious on how/when the ICE kicks on.”
————————–

I think with the Honda Insight, it will be on all the time. No electric drive to the wheels at all. It is an assist hybrid system. Correct me if I am wrong. I almost put my name on a waiting list at my Honda dealer. If I had not already purchased a 2009 Accord EX-L in October as my vehicle to get me to the Volt, I would take a close look at both the Insight and the 2010 Prius. I was looking hard at the 2009 Prius, but decided to go with the Accord over it. I wanted a more luxurious car than the Prius. Especially if I was not able to afford a Volt one day. Good luck with the test drives. I like Honda over Toyota any day.

(Quote)
charlie h Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:01 pm

#56, Takeo Fukui, “We are watching you very carefully and learn much from your many, many mistakes in automotive engineering.”

#60. ThomDBomb, “#56, Takeo Fukui, Trolling?”

This bothers me not at all…

The problem with this is that WE aren’t spending equal time learning from our mistakes. That’s the biggest mistake.

GM has recently introduced it’s FOURTH full-size hybrid SUV, the Yukon Denali. Considering that GM’s current hybrid offerings sell 1600 per month, TOTAL, across all 8 (or is it 9?) models, cloning yet another fullsize hybrid SUV to compete with the other three non-starters is completely senseless. If GM was learning from its mistakes, you’d think they’d try something different. But noooo…

#61, Dave G, “#56 Takeo Fukui, If Honda or Toyota built a hybrid with 40-miles of all-electric range, then I would be very interested to buy one. But so far, there have been no announcements of anything close to this. Let us know when you have something to announce…”

Toyota doesn’t need an announcement… they have a million Prius sales in the bag already. GM hasn’t produced and sold a single Volt and, at this point, there’s no proof they will a) actually produce it or b) if they produce it that it will actually work well for real consumers in typical use or c) that a significant number of people will actually buy it.

(Quote)
vincent Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:07 pm

It’s very nice.
(I don’t like how the sheet metal curves down and looses the lines under the rear side window) that said if they do not change the concept and it makes it to production then great!
Unfortunately GM has always made jaw dropping concepts and produced super watered down non resembling versions…Lets hope these models get here fast, unchanged and with their soul intact.
The Camaro is getting fantastic reviews and the V6 direct Injection is voted World Class. Nice!

(Quote)
CaptJackSparrow Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:09 pm

@N Riley 85

“I think with the Honda Insight, it will be on all the time. No electric drive to the wheels at all. ”

I guess that explains why there are so many more Plugin mods for a Prius than a Honda. I have only seen one, maybe two, Honda mods.

(Quote)
Takeo Fukui Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:10 pm

@83: Eloh Gnub

Japan is grateful to America for helping us rebuild after that awful battle in the forties. But Japan has earned its rightful place atop the auto industry through hard work, patience and superior engineering.

The problem with America is massive arrogance and failure to realize they are in a state of global decline which they will never recover from (similar to the British after 1945). The rest of the world can already see this happening. I believe most Americans cannot or wish not to see it. It is hard to see from the inside America, but make no mistake, the rest of the world can see your decline. Your failure at building automobiles is just one indicator of your sad situation.

Rest assured that with Japan in the leadership role, the global automotive industry is in good hands and will go where no man has gone before and will live long and prosper.

+2

(Quote)
TomDbom Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:17 pm

#86 charlie h

It doesn’t bother me either. I just pointed out that Takeo Fukui is baiting us. Some of us took the bait.

(Quote)
Eloh Gnub Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:22 pm

#89 Fuk U

You’re welcome.

Yes, we can learn from you, as your lost decade (and growing) has helped show us what NOT to do. Thank you.

(Quote)
ccombs Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:23 pm

Lol, I have serious doubts that we have actually been conversing with a bona-fide Honda engineer. If so, I say go Korea and go Samsung . 韩国和中国》日本。Just kidding. Why can’t we all be friends

In other news… I think it is very interesting that GM is gonna start using Li-Ion in their regular hybrids. I wonder how that will work out. Should be a big performance/MPG advantage over NiMH, but at what cost? Well, the great thing is that if GM transitions its hybrids to LI-Ion, it will drive down the cost for the Volt.

(Quote)
Electric Vehicle Owner Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:24 pm

@ Dave G 58

I stand corrected that it’s only for batgirls (cool, aggressive 20 somethings – I guess this blog is not hep to modern lingo) and soccer moms. I assume from your comments that you love my high performance electric drive off road application idea for the hoons, hunters and rednecks (count me among them), then?

(Quote)
CaptBarbossa Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:35 pm

@89

Well sure you folks there can produce cars. You have to because you Zipper faced f@ag_goat a$$e’s can’t drive worth the rice you boiled. Just look at a few features you need just to drive….

(Quote)
CaptBarbossa Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:35 pm

@89

Dynamic Radar Cruise Control – You need help in this because you lack the ability to be a competent driver and take notice of your surroundings while driveing. OR you can’t see everything because the two slits on your face make it hard to see through.

(Quote)
CaptBarbossa Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:35 pm

@89

Pre-Collision System – Engineered anti stupidity electronics because you abviously need more help driving and don’t understand that you need to stop/brake to not hit an object.

(Quote)
CaptBarbossa Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:36 pm

@89

Lane Keep Assist – OK, maybe you goons drink too much over there and can’t drive straight. Or is it because your eyes are slanted and can’t drive in a straight line?

(Quote)
CaptBarbossa Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:36 pm

@89

Intelligent Parking Assist – We’ll, this says it all. You are not intelligent enough to park so the engineers needed to program artificial intelligence in the car because you’re too fukcen stupid to turn your head and triangulate your driving to manuver the car into a parking spot/parallel park. Or maybe you can’t see out of your Zipperface?

Anyway, we still have “The B0mb”. You just can’t see it.

(Quote)
David K (CT) Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:45 pm

I think we need another thread.

Maybe Lyles test drive?

(Quote)
CaptJackSparrow Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:45 pm

Dang moderation….

(Quote)
Jackson Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:46 pm

CNN article just over an hour ago (don’t think it’s the same one referenced above), “Are Truly Green Cars Almost Here?”

I was at a restaurant, trying to keep up with the closed-captioning, so I can’t say who the expert was, but to make a long story short, he essentially agrees with Dave G: The future green car is a plug-in hybrid which can run on Ethanol. There were clips of the Ford plug-in, and the Plug in Prius (can it run on Ethanol?), but the Volt was mentioned only in passing.

How soon will they be here? “In showrooms in just a few years.”

(Quote)
Jackson Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:51 pm

In no way should “CaptBarbossa’s” comments be considered representative of this on-line community (I haven’t seen that name here before).

CaptJackSparrow, is he in range of The Black Pearl? Action Stations!

(Quote)
CaptJackSparrow Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 12:55 pm

@Jackson 106

“CaptJackSparrow, is he in range of The Black Pearl? Action Stations!”

I keep getting moderated no matter what I put. Especially the bad stuff I want to post……lol
Oh well, I’ll take an early lunch.

(Quote)
old man Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:01 pm

I fear CaptBarbossa has taken the trols line and swallowed the hook deep.

From the many Japanese that I have met during my career in the machine tool industry I can assure you that they do not use disrespectfull talk, especially when they know their customers are reading or listening.

Have to admit that I was ready to let loose with a rampage when I read Takeo’s first post but quickly realized this had to smell as it was pure BS.

(Quote)
old man Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:05 pm

Dang I got moderated, Thinkl it was due to saying something about Takeo’s post smelling like b**l *hit.

(Quote)
CaptJackSparrow Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:07 pm

Arrrggghhh….
I can’t post the link, keeps getting moderated but check this out. The Prius will have 5 trim levels. They’ll have a “bare-bones” which is their starting price model. I’m curious on what it looks like inside now. The one we rented had everything under the moon. I wonder what trim levels the Volt will have. Start wih mt bare bones list!!!

Toyota has just announced the official prices for the five (!) trim levels for the new Prius that will go on sale in late May. The bare-bones version (which must be pretty bare, since Toyota isn’t saying yet what’s included) will be just $21,000. On the other end of the spectrum, the top trim level starts at $27,270 (add $750 to both prices for delivery and all that). The most you can pay for a 2010 Prius this spring will be $32,520 for the Prius V trim with the Advanced Technology Package (ATP).

(Quote)
old man Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:08 pm

moderated again.

NOPE THEY WENT THRU!!!

(Quote)
otis Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:10 pm

Takeo Fukui? I think this is a hoax. I doubt the head of Honda would say some of things written above. It would be great if the real one or other auto executives and engineers would occassionally get on this websight.

It would also be great if Lyle would give us his report on his test drive!

(Quote)
CaptJackSparrow Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:14 pm

Aw man….
I didn’t even put anything bad or a link. Whats the deal Oatmeal?

Well, my supervisor is gone so off to H( . Y . )TERS for Beer and Chicken Wings!!!!

Yeeehaawww!!!

(Quote)
MarkinWI Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:16 pm

Dave G @#30/N Riley @#64 – As a current Pontiac owner (bought new) I get quarterly mailings from GM. These are basically ads posing as magazines (and I don’t mean to say that they are bad, in case anyone from GM PR is reading). In the past the mailings always focused on Pontiac brand products.

The latest was a cross-section, and included a GMC vehicle, among other brands. So I’ll draw two things from this ad. First, GM is already trying to salvage customers from brands (like Pontiac) that will not survive. If they don’t have a coherent plan in place, then I overestimate them. Second, despite the speculation GMC may not be baked, at least not yet.

Too bad about the negative turn that the posts took today. Lyle put alot of content into today’s article. For whatever its worth, I love the concept vehicle. I’m also interested in seeing the impact of using lithium batteries with current hybrids. I’d love to say NPNS, but I’m not sure that I’ll see a family vehicle like this one with a plug before our current one needs to be replaced.

(Quote)
Sammy Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:20 pm

As an aside, here in the OKC area the Walmarts have been putting bold and beautiful stickers on all their gas pumps. The wonderful words on the sticker reads: “NO ETHANOL”. That’s right folks, they took that E10 crap out of our gasoline. I am now enjoying the return of power to my four-banger and mo’ betta mileage to boot !

I have also heard a rumor that a large chunk of the Lexus parts inventory has been used to fix the damage done by Ethanol in a lot of their vehicles (unconfirmed). Well, I personally believe it and I cannot stand the government mandating gasahol to the unknowing public. This just chaps my hide somethin’ fierce. End Rant.

(Quote)
Takeo Fukui Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:32 pm

@105: old man

Hey old man drop the hate. My posts have no smell. I stand by accurate statements. The Japanese people feel your pain.
The truth will set you free my friend to the west.
Now, kindly get back to work and start saving for your next Honda purchase. Remember this: The Sun always rises in the East first !

+1

(Quote)
Jackson Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:36 pm

Oh, yeah; the concept appears to be pitched squarely between the eyes of Chinese buyers, who already think Buick is pretty danged cool. I don’t know that it’s really relevant for us here, except for the mention of Li-ion BAS-2 hybrid technology.

I would think that a conventional hybrid would be better off with the high-energy MIT Li-Ion batteries than the LG Chem in the Volt. For that use, the MIT cells would knock the socks off of NiMH, in every respect.

In a perfect world, the MIT results hold up, turn out to be very close to cost-effective manufacture, and are turned over to A123 or other American battery manufacturing concern for ‘full hybrids’ to compete with Toyota and Honda (first), and to supplement power batteries in EVs and BEVs (second). The new Saturn comes up with an all-hybrid lineup using them.

In our actual world, it’s more likely that MIT High Energy Li-Ion takes years to appear, or an off-shore manufacturer will manage to bring them out first, and Saturn gets it’s electric powertrain from BYD:

http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1020168_byd-in-talks-with-american-and-european-automakers-to-supply-hybrid-powertrains

(Quote)
CorvetteGuy Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:36 pm

Okay. Now that GM has shown a Voltec/Erev vehicle for each of the remaining 3 divisions, Chevy-Cadillac-Buick, let’s hear about Lyle’s test drive.

Is it worth the wait? Should I sell my old Vette and just get a Camaro? Should I save more and go with the Converj?

Enough politics. Enough speculation. Enough Japanese bashing. Let the faithful hear Lyle’s Sermon on the Mount!

Amen.

(Quote)
David K (CT) Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:37 pm

Hey Takeo…

Why was the Prelude dropped from the lineup?

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:43 pm

#89 Takeo Fukui

That is the same mistake Germany, Italy and Japan made in the late 1930’s. They believed they were the premier world class military and economic powers and that the U.S. was declining or just plain too asleep to care. Well, the American eagle got rudely awaken on December 7, 1941 and it could certainly happen again. So, don’t have your cookies with your milk just yet.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:47 pm

#102 Jackson

“In no way should “CaptBarbossa’s” comments be considered representative of this on-line community (I haven’t seen that name here before).”
——————————–

Agreed. I will not respond to any more comments from either of them.

(Quote)
Timaaayyy!!! Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 1:51 pm

Notes from the Shanghai Auto Show:

“…the reborn Chevy Camaro from General Motors (Chinese journalists took turns lining up to be photographed in front of it)”

“While governments elsewhere tend to shrink from legislating higher fuel costs, Beijing may not be as reluctant. “I actually think it’s more likely to happen here than in the United States,” says the Japanese executive. China’s car companies are at a technological disadvantage when it comes to making internal-combustion engines, but the playing field for all-electric vehicles is very nearly level. With a concerted push, the Chinese could leap ahead of the rest of the world. Reilly agrees that Beijing means what it says about boosting the technology. For that reason, he says, “we ought to be very serious about our competitors here in China.”"

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1892845,00.html

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Takeo Fukui Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:09 pm

Here is a famous Japanese proverb to live by:

“Today is victory over yourself of yesterday; tomorrow is your victory over lesser men.”

Tomorrow is coming and it will be our day. If you really want to know what tomorrow holds for the average American, it goes something like this:

After a self-induced coma (not hard to believe given your productivity), you awaken after 50 years circa 2060, to find yourself dazed and confused, unable to understand your fellow citizens and neighbors since they are all speaking Spanish and have loyalty to your new President Fidel Juan GonzalesRodriguezRodriguez.
Your country has now become a lowly colony of a great Nation to the East. After slapping yourself silly you realize this is not a dream.
The only thing that causes a huge smile on your face is that fact that now everybody drives a Honda and has no more personal transportation problems exist. First lesson to all new borns: A Honda never breaks down.

+3

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N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:12 pm

#118 Timaaayyy!!!

All the countries of the world will have to contend with China’s growing economic and military power over the remaining years of this century. We in the U.S. are the only country really capable of competing with them. Problem is we are too busy destroying our national fabric in senseless partisan political battles to focus on staying a world leader.

China needs to go electric with their vehicle fleet more than any other country. Their pollution is much worse than any other countries. Remember the Olympics? Even after banning most industrial activity for weeks ahead of the Olympics and alternating days vehicles could be used, their skies were dark with pollution. It was really bad at times. But China cannot advance electric vehicle usage and still use coal fired generating plants and expect to reduce pollution. They need nuclear just the same as do we.

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Dave G Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:22 pm

#72 Electric Vehicle Owner Says: Yep, it’s all about the incredible off the line performance, sensation and sound of electric drive. That’s more addictive than nicotine and caffeine together.

Electric hoons rule! It’s not our fault if we also save the planet, improve national security and vehicle efficiency and save money at the same time by accident. It’s all about the screamingly good off the line performance of electric drive for me.
————————————————————————————–
I think you are onto something here.

The SUV craze is going through a slow and painful death, but nothing yet has come along as the next “gotta have one” vehicle. Without any clear status symbol, people are just delaying their next car purchase.

But if you show them something that kicks a$$ off the line, runs nearly silent most of the time, eliminates most trips to the gas station, and has no compromises, many people will spend a little more for this, and EREVs could replace SUVs as the next new status symbol / fashion statement / gotta have one vehicle.

So as I’ve said before, I believe most people, including GM, are way underestimating the market for EREVs. This could be the next big deal…

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Timaaayyy!!! Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:27 pm

#129 N Riley

As a practical matter, moving some pollution from the cities to the outskirts is an improvement in short and medium-term living conditions for many Chinese, especially as their coal generation gets moved farther away. Longer-term, a low-carbon source of power generation, such as their nuke program, is desperately needed. One could argue that Chinese air pollution and global warming risk is synonomous with Chinese coal.

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Ronny Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:29 pm

@120 N Riley :

I say we help them go nuclear quickly via Air Mail.
We can deliver all the nukes they need, express delivery on the end of some ballistic missiles to the cities that need nuclear the most.

Oops. Just a dream. Not with this weak prez. It’s only a matter of time before he bows to Osama bin-Laden and poses with hime for the hand-shaking ceremony while preaching from his teleprompter.
Obama is an empty suit but he sure showed GM who’s boss.

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Dave K. Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:31 pm

Takeo Fukui 119,

“A Honda never breaks down.”

Honda is very close to having their popular VTEC models recalled for faulty VTEC solenoid valves. This valve is tied to the engine timing. And once it has failed, at typically under 90,000 miles of use, the engine will buck and the driver needs to pull off of the road. A dealer will charge the Honda owner $400 to get the car back to running condition.

C’ mon Honda, pay up.

=D~

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Timaaayyy!!! Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:31 pm

#121 Dave G

Bingo! AND can provide an adequate profit margin, in the long-run.

But we’re all dead in the long-run; hope GM can get there!

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Dave G Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:37 pm

#69 Dave K. Says: I would like to see every auto manufacturer getting into the E-REV business. Quiet clean running cars that are not in line to make a weekly donation to the foreign oil factor.

Having many forms of E-REV for purchase will interest many who would otherwise shoot down the limited or unwanted features of the few.
————————————————————————————–
Yes. What’s more, competition will help everyone, including GM.

Competition forces designers and engineers to make more competitive products. More competitive products increase sales volumes. Increased sales volume lowers costs. Lower costs lead to lower sales prices. Lower prices leads to more competition. More competition forces designers and engineers to make more competitive products…

It’s all gonna happen. The only question is when.

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Electric Vehicle Owner Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:38 pm

One of my viewpoints has a fan, a Journalist/Broadcaster covering the auto industry and auto racing for 35 years:

“Because electric motors exhibit all their torque immediately, Prius and its ilk are fun driving for the first 100 feet after the light turns green. After Prius beats that Porsche for the first two seconds of the Stop Light Grand Prix, hybrids settle down…”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-parker/green-cars—just-another_b_188533.html

Yee-haw!

Can we all start using Stop Light Grand Prix (you all know that you’ve been in one) from now on to describe where electric drive really shines, or do we have pay the journalist a royalty each time?

The scam referred to in the article appears to be that electric drive can be just as honestly put in the muscle car category as for a green lable. Time to start putting electric drive badges on the vehicles and developing catchy slogans for it? My first attempt is “Green Muscle – Electric Drive. (GM-ED).” Improvements, anyone?

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Smokey Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:42 pm

You don’t want to be in a major accident in an EV these days. The Fire Rescue squads are not trained in the fine arts of HIGH VOLTAGE. They will be instructed to avoid the EV you are injured in at all costs. Danger Will Robinson.

Even worse, just imagine a head-on between 2 torque monster EVs. It’s gonna be ugly. Think giant Tesla Coil but with some serious Amps to get things fired up. I wouldn’t want to be near this mess or my pace-maker buddies.

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N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:47 pm

#126 Dave G

That is the way it is SUPPOSED to happen. Now that the government is in control, we don’t know what is going to happen. Maybe nothing to worry about, maybe a little to worry about or maybe a lot to worry about. I just hope GM can get back on their feet, repay the government and tell them to leave the auto business alone and get back to the business of making the lives of ordinary Americans miserable. They are very good at that.

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N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:55 pm

#126 Dave G

I don’t want to sound like I am trying to bash the government, but we just don’t know the effects on our industrial companies of the “bail-out” loans and monies being given out by the government.

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noel park Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 2:55 pm

Think what you like about whoever is calling himself or herself “Takeo Fukui”, there is a great deal of truth in his or her comment at #119.

As i continue to struggle with Thomas L. Friedman’s deeply disturbing “The World Is Flat”, it strikes me that he is saying what “Takeo” is saying, only in more polite, professional and literary terms. If we do not wake up and respond to the challenges of the “flat” world, we can very well end up as a “second world” country, and in a shorter time frame than the 60 years “Takeo” suggests. Don’t take my word for it, read the book yourselves.

If we do not take up President Obama’s priorities of Education, Energy, and Health Care with the urgencey of sending a man to the moon, or the Manhattan Project, cited by nasaman the other day, we, and even moreso our children and grandchildren, are going to suffer the consequences.

Having said all that, I would caution “Mr. Fukui” that Japan is as exposed to the threat that India and China pose in a “flat” world just as much as we are. Will the Japanese national psyche give them a better chance to keep up? I would just say that, if indeed America is doomed to be overshadowed by a great Nation from the East, my money would not be on its being Japan.

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Len Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 3:13 pm

Another good article in the NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/business/global/22auto.html?_r=1&hp

Here is a quote:

“G.M.’s other advantage is that its Chinese operations were highly independent of the rest of the corporation for many years. Phil Murtaugh, the executive who built G.M. China, emphasized fuel economy and affordability even as the company’s North American operations were betting heavily on sport utility vehicles.

G.M. became so big and successful in China that the company’s top management stripped the subsidiary of its independence in early 2005 and put vehicle design, parts purchasing and other functions under more supervision from Detroit. Mr. Murtaugh resigned in protest…”

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Starcast Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 3:22 pm

#130
“If we do not take up President Obama’s priorities of Education, Energy, and Health Care with the urgencey of sending a man to the moon, or the Manhattan Project, cited by nasaman the other day, we, and even moreso our children and grandchildren, are going to suffer the consequences”

LOL If we contiue down the Obama road we will be so far in debit and our Companies we be at an even bigger disadvantage because they will be even more over taxed then they are now. Our workers and companies can compete with anyone if the government would get out of the way and remove the income tax!

We need to get back to no income tax! We had no income tax for the first 134 years. Put the tax on imports.

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N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 3:35 pm

#130 Noel Park

While I agree with most of what you say, I can not see our educational system ever producing a winning combination with it being totally controlled by a union that only cares about itself and not the children their members are trying to educate. I think our educational system is one of the weakest links in our “chain” and it has been broken and may never be put back together again in a way to properly function. We need to invest in more vouchers, in more specialty schools and in better educated teachers and invest less in bureaucracy that is strangling our school systems. Of course, this is just my opinion.

Edited: In our “higher” educational system, we need to root out those professors that are teaching their agendas and not teaching quality education that the parents and students are paying tremendous money for. We don’t need indoctrination in any school system whether it is in kindergarten through college. We need an educational system that is second to none that is dedicated to teaching the leaders and business people of tomorrow. Those who want to learn trades should be assisted to find and pay for those “educations” as well. We need tradesmen as well as doctors and scientist.

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Timaaayyy!!! Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 3:40 pm

I look forward to electric car power wars, like Camaro vs ‘Stang vs Challenger. Can you image capacitor power dumps to get 0-60 times never achieved before? And balistic passing ability? Cool.

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N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 3:47 pm

#134 Timaaayyy!!!

You sound like a TV show I was watching this weekend about future cars. They were talking about having cars traveling hundreds of miles per hour across our roads. I kept thinking about what happens when a deer, a dog, a possum, or a child walks out into the road in front of one of these speeding vehicles. I just cannot ever imagine a world where you could travel at those speeds without being a danger not only to yourself but to every living creature you come close to. That is not a world where I want to be a passenger or driver in a vehicle that will go that fast. And these designers and engineers were talking like it was no big deal to be able to accomplish this and we needed to be preparing for this type of vehicle. Not in my world, it won’t happen.

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Electric Vehicle Owner Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 3:55 pm

N Riley 135

Thank goodness for aerodynamics and speed limits. You can go that fast in current supercars, but the gas ones run out of gas in about 12 minutes (the electric supercars have slightly better ranges). So, if you really want go that fast (hundreds of miles per hour) for long distances you’re talking either flying or high speed trains (once the US catches up to the rest of the world and gets some).

What Timaaayyyy!!! was talking about provides massive acceleration, not massive top speed. The first is fun, the second boring (when’s the last time you rode coach in a packed plane with a puking, screaming baby, your seat back kicked every three seconds and a fat guy in the seat next to you and thought “yeah, performance vehicle, this”.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 3:56 pm

@Electric Vehicle Owner 131

I agree, GM should package the battery into the new Camaro and tune it for only 20 AER in a sacrifice for off the line kick and add an UltraCap to “Harden” the powersource and cusion the stress on the battery.
We’ll call it the “Camaro-TK”.
aka “Camaro-TeslaKiller”

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Timaaayyy!!! Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 3:58 pm

#135

Define “it”. I’m not dreaming of hundreds of mph. That would be track-only, at best.

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Grouch Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 4:03 pm

Starcast @ 132,

LOL If we contiue down the Obama road we will be so far in debit and our Companies we be at an even bigger disadvantage because they will be even more over taxed then they are now. Our workers and companies can compete with anyone if the government would get out of the way and remove the income tax!

We were already there well before Obama was elected. IMHO, the die was cast in March of 2003, way back when those teabagging mm4m Republicans were in charge.

The difference, of course, is that Obama’s trying to be smart with the fiscal firehose. It’s still a firehose, but there’s at least a chance that /something/ positive will come from it. Unlike the previous president, who seemed to just use the fiscal firehose to funnel money to the defense industry and the likes of Haliburton and Blackwater/Xe.

Seriously, I’m pretty sure that I’m going to be paying off Bush’s fiscal indiscretions in one way or another (taxes and/or inflation) for the rest of my working life… So using the fiscal firehose in a hail-mary play to see if we can fix things before it’s too late doesn’t seem like such a bad idea — and maybe things will be better before my unborn children reach adulthood.

Hey, you started it. And just repeating talking points isn’t going to convince anyone.

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Jackson Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 4:17 pm

(Runnin’ for the door) See y’all next topic.

Test-drive article, Lyle? Good time for it.

By the way, there ought to be a way for Lyle to identify the IP address “Takei Fukui” is using, it would probably be fairly easy to confirm or rule out Japan or Asia as an originating location.

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bruce g Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 4:25 pm

Hmmm,
They should have hired the group that did the converj concept vehicle in my opinion.
Add the Buick to a long list of people movers…yawn.

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N Riley Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 4:31 pm

#138 Timaaayyy!!!

I think I was reacting to your “balistic passing ability” comment more than the 0-60 speed. I understand track speed versus highway speed. Ballistic passing speed would come into play on the highway, I would think.

But, I agree that an electric car would be a “rush” taking off at a stop sign or stop light. I am certainly ready for Volt like vehicles. As much as I admire the new Camaro, I think it could be improved with some Voltec technology. Maybe in version 2 or 3. I just want a convertible Camaro. I will definitely take a hard look at them when they hit the dealerships.

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Electric Vehicle Owner Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 4:31 pm

@ CaptJackSparrow 127
You said:
“@Electric Vehicle Owner [126]
I agree, GM should package the battery into the new Camaro and tune it for only 20 AER in a sacrifice for off the line kick and add an UltraCap to “Harden” the powersource and cusion the stress on the battery.
We’ll call it the “Camaro-TK” aka “Camaro-TeslaKiller””

No need to make any changes at all. GM already has it. It’s called the Volt. If the current Prius (not even the 2010 with a more powerful electric motor) can already beat a Porshe off the line for two seconds in the Stop Light Grand Prix, thanks to its little electric motor, what do you think the 100% electric drive of the Volt is gonna do it? It won’t beat a Tesla off the line, though, as a Tesla is already electric drive. Any gasser, though, you bet.

Now you know the dirty little secret of hybrids. For 2 seconds of off the line performance at each multi-lane Stop Light Grand Prix we all get dozens of times a day, they are performance wolves in green sheep’s clothing, thanks to the electric drive,.

Don’t get me started on electric drive and regenerative braking superior performance in ice and snow conditions, thanks to near linear acceleratio/decelaration (less slipping/sliding of tires from uneven torque).

Once the big automakers let consumers taste what electric drive can really do, consumers will be vehicle addicts like they never were before.

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Electric Vehicle Owner Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 4:36 pm

NRiley 141

“But, I agree that an electric car would be a “rush” taking off at a stop sign or stop light.”

If you’ve actually done it repeatedly in a high performance electric drive vehicle next to gassers for comparison, you’d be foaming at the mouth, happy shouting about it with unwipeable grin on your face, not just agreeing.

Can everyone tell that I used my vehicle at lunch?

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Electric Vehicle Owner Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 4:52 pm

Looking at Lyle’s review of the Tesla Roadster (the base one, not the Sport).

Here’s my tips for extra smileage (no that’s not a typo, it’s a side effect of using electric drive) next time:

1. Get a proper high voltage outlet in your garage or plan your recharge better in advance. It’s not expensive or time consuming. You know where some local gas stations are, right? Time for you to learn where the most convenient and/or high speed recharge opportunities are for you in your neck of the woods in advance. The menu of recharge choices that you know about grows each month, the longer you use your electric vehicle and as you look around and talk to nearby folks about it. Most local businesses with exterior outlets are happy to trade a recharge for having your really cool vehicle draw folks to their location.
2. Get it full next time if possible.
3. Try to use it in multi-lane many block long stop light areas (i.e. urban/ high population suburban enviros).
4. Try to be at the front of the line at red lights. This requires advance planning and thoughtful driving timing sometimes, a nice driving skill to develop that’s often overlooked.
5. Do the Stop Light Grand Prix. (Caution: you may need to briefly wait in some states where up to 5 vehicle in a row run red lights before you launch – you know those pure gassers without regenerative brakeing – they don’t stop so good at red lights).
6. Watch the gassers that were next to you become tiny dots in the side view mirrors.
7. Then back off the throttle at the speed limit. It’s all about good clean legal fun, now. There’ll be no tire squeal or smoke on the hole shot if the vehicle has proper traction control (which the Prius and Tesla do).
8. Works with any electric drive vehicle with a decent perfromance electric motor and gear ratio (even a Prius).

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Nelson Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 4:54 pm

If it doesn’t come with a plug to ensure the car starts with a full hybrid battery charge, it won’t sell here in USA. Today’s hybrids never start with a full battery charge = waste of gas.

NPNS!

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Dave G Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 4:54 pm

#132 Starcast Says: LOL If we continue down the Obama road we will be so far in debit and our Companies we be at an even bigger disadvantage because they will be even more over taxed then they are now.
————————————————————————————–
How much more debt do you think we would have if we did nothing to stimulate the economy? More people out of work means lower tax revenues and more unemployment payments.

If the $787 billion stimulus package does what it’s supposed to do and stimulates the economy, then it will avert much worse deficits in the years to come, and this will actually lower the debt burden on our children and grandchildren.

I heard a recent analogy the other day. If you live in the desert, then you have to conserve water. But if your house is burning down, water conservation isn’t your primary concern at the moment.

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noel park Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 5:23 pm

#139 Grouch & #146 Dave G:

Well I was just trying to work up the energy to respond to Starcast at #132 but, fortunately, I read your comments first. You have said it better than I ever could. Thank you.

#133 N Riley:

i spent a lot of time as a parent trying to work within the system at the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD), a poster child for the failings of urban school systems in the US today. In LAUSD high schools, the “graduation rate” is 50%. Typically, 1000 9th graders in every year, 500 12th graders graduate. Year in and year out.

Whatever we may believe about the teachers and administrators, at least 50% of the responsibility for this lies with the students and their parents, IMHO. If we as parents cannot find a way to lead, inspire, motivate, or whatever word you choose, our children to study and excel, the best school district in the world is doomed. As my mother always says, “You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him drink.”

If we do not find an answer for this challenge, we may very well end up a colony of the Great East, as our friend Mr. (Ms.?) Fukui suggests.

Now that I think about it, do you suppose that his or her name is a play on words?

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Fahrvergnugen Fanboy Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 5:39 pm

” 韩国和中国》日本”

OK, I’m stumped. I know 中国 and 日本 (I mean, duh, just look at the pictures and think about it!) but where is 韩国? Is it Hanguo?

The vehicle pictured would sell like hotcakes in Shanghai. Aerodynamics is not a factor — traffic doesn’t move fast. Make it black, put official plates on it and you’re all set.

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batman! Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 5:55 pm

148 fahrvergnugen

Im no expert on any foriegn letters, so could u please explain what those mandarin characters mean?

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carcus1 Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:04 pm

Screw the mini van. I’ll take a hummer

http://www.rasertech.com/

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Fritz Henderson Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:11 pm

# 49 Takeo Fukui

Let’s do this! Step outside!

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Bob G Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:13 pm

I think it would be safe to assume that a Japanese person who supports the Honda brand would not use their CEO’s name (Takeo Fukui) in such a disrespectful fashion.

But even more disturbing are CaptBarbossa’s remarks. I think most Americans would agree that racism is a shameful part of our history that needs to be left in the past.

Although the troll’s posts contain some sobering truths about America’s current path, we cannot forget that the success of Japanese industry rests as much on systemic protectionism, industry collusion, and massive government subsidies as it does on “hard work and patience.”

We need to wake up and stop letting others steal our “superior engineering,” insist on truly *fair* trade, and fix our own problems with health care, education, and energy if we want to recover from our decline.

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Unni Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:16 pm

Some news said there is a Prius technology based Minivan in the kitchen.

Toyota scaling up the Prius technology and GM scaling down the 2 mode hybrids and ford is already a strong player in hybrid SUVs.

2010 may be time for small/medium SUVS and minivans hybrid time (apart from the initial EREV s/EVs ) .

Wondering what all are the 2 mode offerings from GM on 2010.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:20 pm

#150 carcus1

I look at a 100-mpg Hummer suspiciously. How could something that big get that mileage? Now, Neil Young and friends say they have a 1959 Lincoln Continental Mark IV (aka the “LincVolt”) that gets 100 mpg. The LincVolt is a 2.5-ton 19.5-foot automobile. Maybe Rasertech is on to something. If so, why doesn’t the GM Volt get the same or better mileage?

http://www.lincvolt.com/

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statik Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:29 pm

Wow, I have missed some really great threads on my/the family’s vacation. Has been a enjoyable read.

Interesting news on the Prius going after the Insight pricing the base at $21,000…world is changing I guess. The ‘hybrid’ premium is certainly going down…which kind of brings us back to this Buick and to GM’s tendancy to only put the label ‘hybrid’ on the very high end of a model.

I think GM is going to have to rethink the way they price/scale their program, certainly Honda and Toyota price warring against each other is going to change the publics perception that hybrid = pricey.

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noel park Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:32 pm

#152 Bob G

Amen on all counts. Well done.

#154 ThombDbhomb:

Yeah, I’ll believe that the laws of physics have been repealed when I see it for myself.

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carcus1 Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:33 pm

#154 Thomb,

Electric H3:
I think they’re actually claiming 40 mile all electric and 33 mpg in charge depletion mode with a 2.0 L engine. That 33 mpg still sounds too good to be true to me, but I’d like to believe it (once again, I want independent testing).
– How ironic would it be if GM sold the hummer off and the EREV H3 ends up being the hottest thing among the affluent “green crowd” (with the governator leading the wave)?

On the Lincvolt:
I’ve spent a few hours listening to their shop recordings. I think Neil’s project is more about “the spirit of innovation” than actual performance results. Looks like they’re having fun with it anyway.
(I’m a big fan of Neil’s music )

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ThombDbhomb Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:40 pm

#156 noel park

I haven’t looked at LincVolt’s data, but they claim to have some. Maybe the laws of physics weren’t repealed. The LincVolt is an EREV. To increase their mpg, maybe they plugged in when the battery got low.

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statik Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:42 pm

Side note/vacation day #4 update:

If you schedule your trip to Disney on a tuesday to avoid crowds…but the weather man says all day sunday that on monday we are going to have thundershows….DO NOT GO TO DISNEY on your scheduled day on tuesday…put it off until wednesday,lol.

The first two rides took a clean hour to get through the line…until I discovered the magic of fast pass. Unfortunately, you can only ‘fast pass’ 1 ride a hour/2 total at a time (for those who have not been to Disney in awhile, a ‘fast pass’ is basically skipping the line. You put your park ticket in a machine and it gives you a coupon to come back and skip the line at a later time-usually 1-3 hours later)

So I hiked back to the front gate, and scammed other people’s passes as they left the park….then fast passed the whole dang park (at least where I could) and avoided the mess.

Side, side note: Carousel of Progress? Still awesome, lol. (Was created for te 1964 World’s Fair and has been showing in Disney for like 45 years)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKz6qdexetY

…its a great big beautiful tomorrow

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ThombDbhomb Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:43 pm

From the LincVolt website:

“Lincvolt has a propulsion system that out-performs the not yet released Chevy Volt and Chrysler series hybrids in power, MPG and overall efficiency. ”

I guess it is easy to outperform cars that do not exist yet.

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noel park Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:44 pm

#155 statik:

Well I’m gonna believe that $21K “Level I” Prius when I see one. You can’t find a “Level I” version of the current one in LA to save your life. It’s on the price list, but “Level II” is the cheapest I have ever found. The last dealer I asked just laughed.

I did see a base Insight parked outside of the local AAA office today. Sticker $19.8K. It’s a better looking car than the current Prius, IMHO, but with steel wheels and a pretty blah interior it is clearly the loss leader. Maybe they really plan to sell a few of them at that price. If so, good for them.

Not that I’m buying a Toyota or a Honda, I hasten to add. Sorry Mr. Fukui. If we become a vassal state of the Great East, it won’t be my doing.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:48 pm

#162 noel park
If the Gen 3 “Level I” Prius goes for $21k, I wonder how much the leftover 2009 Gen 2’s will go for.

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Timaaayyy!!! Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:53 pm

off-topic:

Good to see Michigan’s starting to think more pragmatically about their problems. Future parkland, as I’ve said:

““If it’s going to look abandoned, let it be clean and green,” he said. “Create the new Flint forest — something people will choose to live near, rather than something that symbolizes failure.”

From, “An Effort to Save a City by Shrinking It”: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/business/22flint.html?ref=business

Redeploy the assets–people, land.

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carcus1 Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:58 pm

Lincvolt.com is a fun sight with lots to look at (shakey pictures) and listen to. But if your searching for proof of a great technological erev breakthrough, I don’t think you’ll find it, at least not yet.

Who knows, maybe the Kansas mechanics will come up with something the Detroit engineers missed.

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statik Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 6:59 pm

#161 noel park said:

#155 statik:

Well I’m gonna believe that $21K “Level I” Prius when I see one. You can’t find a “Level I” version of the current one in LA to save your life. It’s on the price list, but “Level II” is the cheapest I have ever found. The last dealer I asked just laughed.

I did see a base Insight parked outside of the local AAA office today. Sticker $19.8K. It’s a better looking car than the current Prius, IMHO, but with steel wheels and a pretty blah interior it is clearly the loss leader. Maybe they really plan to sell a few of them at that price. If so, good for them.

==============
Here is the pricing structure for the 2010. 5 levels total, and its not like level 2 or even 3 are a bump of much significance. Even the ‘fancy pants level 5′ is only 27K.

Level I – $21,000
Level 2 – $22,000
Level 3 – $23,000
Level 4 – $25,800
Level 5 – $27,480

Even is level 1 is a mythical unicorn, level 2 and 3 are still a heck of a challenge for the Insight I think.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:03 pm

@noel park 165
“You can’t find a “Level I” version of the current one in LA to save your life. ”

That’s why I think GM should sell a bare bones model. They get scooped like you wouldn’t believe.
And some of you guys think i’m crazy for wanting that.
Sheeeesh.

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carcus1 Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:08 pm

Picture of Level 1 Prius in L.A. area:

http://px6.streetfire.net/0001/36/09/1306390_600.jpg

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ThombDbhomb Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:15 pm

#164 carcus1

Then I gotta toss your Rasertech reference (at #150) back at you. Maybe the Rasertech mechanics will come up with something the Detroit engineers missed.

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JEC Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:21 pm

Takeo Fukui

Sorry, this is a poor imitation of a Japanese fellow, trying to slip in stereotypical slang.

Mr. Fukui is no more Japanese, then I.

Carry on….

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noel park Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:25 pm

#165 statik:

No argument there. It’s a VERY impressive car, as much as it pains me to say so.

#167 carcus 1:

LMAO. Thanks, I needed that.

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carcus1 Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:30 pm

The volt crowd is a little slow on the joke here today……

Takeo Fukui

Tokyo F*ck You (?)

I think it’s safe to say Mr. Fukui is actually from the land of the rising Pun.

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john1701a Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 7:51 pm

Some news said there is a Prius technology based Minivan in the kitchen.

Toyota scaling up the Prius technology and GM scaling down the 2 mode hybrids and ford is already a strong player in hybrid SUVs.
___________________________

Minivan hybrid production is well underway. Estima, using HSD with AWD, has been available in Japan for almost 2 years now.

Scaling up of HSD happened last year. Highlander SUV hybrid now offers 7-person seating and 3,500-pound towing capacity.

(Quote)
Dan Petit Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 8:01 pm

The Buick concept is exceptionally interesting.
I’ll bet it will be the new Chinese Voltec vehicle!
#56 Takeo.
Japan is a country of, what, 150 million people squeezed into the area the size of our State of Navada.
There is not really much more room to sell anyone any more cars there.
#75 Takeo.
Your commentary reminds me of an old WW2 war film of a Japanese commandant with your pretentious bluff for a market (in Japan) that no firm here really needs nor desires, so the paranoia of any sort of marketing there is quite misplaced, and your comments a severe embarrassment to a highly honored firm: Honda.
Keeping your comments on topic regarding full-electric-propulsion instead of “a few blocks electrically-at-a-time hybrids” (a different sort of thing, Takeo), are absolutely two entirely different products.
While I certainly appreciate the ‘05 Honda Element that I drive currently, it will have a “for-sale” sign on it when it is time for me to buy a Volt. So too, will hundreds of others who have Honda’s that are going to buy GM Voltec vehicles. Environment beats braggarts.
Yes, I have been told by my very good friends at my Honda dealership that “Honda is a small company”, after I repeatedly asked if Honda was going to have an Extended Range Electric Vehicle for sale like the Volt. I took that to mean “NO”.
All good things in good time for Honda, Takeo.
But what I would really like to know is;
Are you really an employee of Honda? I’d bet the true Honda executives are now cringing with embarrassment at your comments right about now if you did in fact work for Honda.
Please do not continue to embarrass both the good people who work extremely hard for Honda Motors of Japan, as well as Honda Motors of America, as I am positive no-one else at Honda would have said anything like your unprofessional pretentiousness.
Perhaps in about 4 or 5 years, the good folks at Honda will be able to catch up with where GM Voltec technologies are now, from how things seem right now. It is OK for you to cheer up and relax.
It is not the Honda sales “you” will loose in Japan, Takeo, it is the Honda sales Honda will loose everywhere else in the World to Voltec. So it is my sincerest wish that Honda can be with us in the market with Extended Range Electric Vehicles!
Dan Petit Austin TX

(Quote)
charlie h Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 8:01 pm

The Toyota dealer I like will order a Level I for you, if you ask nicely, but he hands you the keys at MSRP and when Prius sales are even a little slow, he’ll offer you a better deal on an in-stock Level II. “Save your money, get a nicer car.” I think Level II gets you a backup camera, which I’d want.

(Quote)
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 8:21 pm

#171 carcus1
Fukui is not a pun. Takeo Fukui is the president and CEO of Honda Motor Co., Ltd.

Our Takeo Fukui is likely an im-poster (I think that is a pun)

(Quote)
carcus1 Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 9:17 pm

Mr. Fukui actually had his name changed from Thang Long back in the ’80’s when he was trying to distinguish himself from the rest of Honda middle management. Our poster is Japanese name
Joke redux.

(Quote)
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:15 pm

#176 carcus1

Respectfully, you are wrong. Takeo Fukui is the real name of the president and CEO of Honda Motor Co., Ltd. Look it up.

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carcus1 Says:
April 21st, 2009 at 11:40 pm

#177 Thomb,

Ok, now your probably going to tell me the Lithium battery inventor is Goodenough.

(I think I know when a joke’s been taken too far).

(Quote)
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 22nd, 2009 at 12:50 am

#178 carcus1

That was almost a good one. The internets tells me that Gilbert N. Lewis pioneered lithium batteries in 1912. Johnny B. Goodenough got involved decades later.

(Quote)
carcus1 Says:
April 22nd, 2009 at 6:39 am

#179 Thomb,

“That was almost a good one…..”
_______________________________________________

I thought it was goodenough.

(Quote)
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:15 am

#180 carcus1

LOL – That was a good one.

(Quote)
Electric Vehicle Owner Says:
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:37 am

@ john1701a 172

Given the compact minivanesque vehicle featured in the article above that the only growing market Chinese demand in their favored Buick flavor, the PHEV app does seem a nonbrainer to globalize the product, as independently supported below. GM just needs to market it to the minivan and midsize crowd, even though it’s really a compact sedan. They could also create a luxury trim to pick up the all important luxury crowd.

A new report on PHEV consumer interest, Morpace Powertrain Acceptance and Consumer Engagement, just came out from Morpace auto market consulting and shows that … [PHEV] consideration is strongest among luxury car owners … but those driving midsize cars and minivans also tend to be more interested in PHEVs.

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Electric Vehicle Owner Says:
April 22nd, 2009 at 9:51 am

@ Timaaayyy!!! 163

I’ll bite.

Using abandoned and nonproductive land (hydroponics in the idle manufacturing plants sharing space with power pack assembly lines? – who wouldn’t want a freshly grown veggie break every 2 hours?) for growing food and high value crops, using at risk population (ethnic teens and corrupt CEOS) labor to raise, manage and sell high value specialty crops (i.e. legalize it locally, tax it nationally) at many farmer’s markets 24/7 all over the city is the most productive use (hint, make the first crop sunflowers to take up all the toxins and then send the sunflowers and their roots to a high level toxic repository like Rocky Flats was.)

Most important part – each worker gets an individualized jacket and headkerchief in the project colors – it’s the green gang – do work, get rich, make a family, grow some roots (literally and communally) , be happy.

You’d see a huge, instant rebound in the economy and a happier population. The upper midwest needs to have huge pride, but it’s got to be based on something that has a long term future.

(Quote)
noel park Says:
April 22nd, 2009 at 10:32 am

#183 Electric Vehicle Owner:

Very good, LOL. Every laugh is valuable in these troubled times. (ethnic teens and corrupt CEOs) indeed!

Thanks.

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Starcast Says:
April 22nd, 2009 at 1:25 pm

Starcast @ 132,

LOL If we contiue down the Obama road we will be so far in debit and our Companies we be at an even bigger disadvantage because they will be even more over taxed then they are now. Our workers and companies can compete with anyone if the government would get out of the way and remove the income tax!

We were already there well before Obama was elected. IMHO, the die was cast in March of 2003, way back when those teabagging mm4m Republicans were in charge.

The difference, of course, is that Obama’s trying to be smart with the fiscal firehose. It’s still a firehose, but there’s at least a chance that /something/ positive will come from it. Unlike the previous president, who seemed to just use the fiscal firehose to funnel money to the defense industry and the likes of Haliburton and Blackwater/Xe.

Seriously, I’m pretty sure that I’m going to be paying off Bush’s fiscal indiscretions in one way or another (taxes and/or inflation) for the rest of my working life… So using the fiscal firehose in a hail-mary play to see if we can fix things before it’s too late doesn’t seem like such a bad idea — and maybe things will be better before my unborn children reach adulthood.

Hey, you started it. And just repeating talking points isn’t going to convince anyone.

I am no fan of Bush and agree the Rs are a joke. But that is no excuse to go from the pan into the fire. Government Waste is still government waste.

Things will pick up no matter what. But without any income tax our companies would not need a bail out.

Talking points? What talking points do you think I am repeating? Who is talking about NO INCOME TAX? No major party.

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Jim in AR Says:
April 28th, 2009 at 11:26 am

How many ways can you spell “ugly.” Looks like a WWII Nazis tank.

(Quote)

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