AND 
Fully Loaded 2010 Prius Will Cost $32,500
Toyota has officially announced pricing of the 2010 3rd generation Prius set to go on sale next month in the US. The car is EPA rated 50 MPG combined, and offers no plug-in capability.
They have divided the car into 5 price categories:
Prius I To be released at a later date $21,000
Prius II $22,000
– 1.8-liter Atkinson cycle engine
– P195/65 R15 all-season tires with alloy
wheels & covers
– Smart Key (driver’s door) and Push Button
start
– EV, Eco, and Power modes
– Multi-Informational Display with energy
monitor and fuel consumption history
– AM/FM/MP3 CD player with six speakers and
satellite radio capability and auxiliary
audio jack
– Cruise control
– STAR Safety System and active front headrest
– Seven airbags including driver knee airbag
– Four-wheel disc brakes
– Tilt/telescopic steering wheel with audio and
HVAC
Controls with Touch Tracer Display
– Six-way adjustable driver seat
– Auto up/down on all windows
– Color-keyed foldable power heated side
mirrors
Prius III In addition to Prius II features: $23,000
– JBL AM/FM/MP3 six-disc CD changer with eight
speakers
– Integrated satellite radio capability
– Hands-free phone capability via
Bluetooth((R)) wireless technology
Prius IV In addition to Prius III features: $25,800
– Three-door Smart Key system
– Leather-trimmed interior
– Heated front seats with driver lumbar support
– Driver and front passenger water repellant
windows
– Plasmacluster(TM) ionizer
– Auto dimming mirror with HomeLink(R)
Prius V In addition to Prius IV features: $27,270
– 17-inch alloy wheels and P215/45 R17 tires
– LED headlamps with auto leveling and washers
– Integrated foglamps
Optional Equipment:
Navigation Package $1,800
Voice-actived
touch-screen
DVD navigation system
With JBL AM/FM/MP3
four-disc CD changer,
eight speakers,
integrated satellite
radio capability, XM
NavTraffic capability,
hands-free phone
capability and music
streaming via Bluetooth
wireless technology
and integrated backup
camera
Solar Roof Package $3,600
Includes Navigation
Package equipment
plus power tilt/slide
moonroof with Solar
Powered Ventilation
System and Remote Air
Conditioning System
Advanced Technology Package $4,500
Includes Navigation
Package equipment plus
Dynamic Radar Cruise
Control (DRCC),
Pre-Collision System
(PCS), Lane Keep Assist
(LKA), Intelligent
Parking Assist(IPA)
So buying a Prius V along with the Advanced Technology package plus $750 destination charge will cost $32,500, and the solar roof is not an option. Also buying a Prius that is not a plug-in car does not allow any tax credits.
A Chevy Volt in the mid to upper 30 thousand range take off $7500 for government tax credit could very well cost the buyer less and likely be similarly equipped with creature comforts.
I am told GM is “still investigating” what if any option packages the Volt might have or if it would be one well-equipped model.
The cost of driving without gas, of course, is priceless.
154 Responses to “Fully Loaded 2010 Prius Will Cost $32,500”
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April 21st, 2009 at 8:56 pm
1st
Ford has the best mid sized mileage with the new Fusion. I must say it’s real nice in person.
Honda and Toyota will be fighting it out for best compact Hybrid.
It’s really not a comparison for the Volt since it’s an E-REV
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April 21st, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Got an email from Toyota today stating mine is on the way.
Prius IV – Solar Roof Package
Impatiently waiting for delivery now.
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:05 pm
I think for a car of this type, one well-equipped model, or two tiers, one well-equipped and one luxury-esque one would work best. I can’t really explain it but I am much more comfortable paying for features if there is no choice, whereas I find it hard to justify to myself the extra price of optional equipment. It probably costs GM minimal extra cost to make the car feel like it’s worth more… things like door handles and mirrors that match the color of the car are optional on some cars and it would make more sense to try to make more money (helping make 2nd and 3rd generation Volts more realistic financially) by making things of that sort mandatory.
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Honda and Toyota will be fighting it out for best compact Hybrid.
________________________
How do you define what “best” is?
Also, the 2010 Prius is a midsize.
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:28 pm
It would be nice if you could pick and choose some options without getting an entire package. I would love to be able to get an autodimming rear view mirror without all that other crap.
Number 5, yay!
Stew
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:29 pm
Note to GM:
hello…hello…wake up…Wake Up…WAKE UP!!!
Quit lip servicing hybrids and offer them in the most marketable packages and vehicles. You cannot wait for the Volt to make a difference. Bare bones hybrids for non-luxury vehicles and option up from there. By the way, this is a MUST for the Volt too. There are a lot of pissed off consumers that don’t think you give a damn and aren’t that interested in offering what they want.
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:38 pm
Good luck finding Prius 1, I predict.
And, is it just me; or does the new Prius grill look like it’s got a nasal piercing? Nearly all the new Toyota models seem to include this styling “feature.” A logo disc in just the wrong place.
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:43 pm
Fully loaded volt will cost…….?
…………?
…………?
?
Crickets chirping website corporate sponsorship song.
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:43 pm
– EV, Eco, and Power modes
I’d like to hear more about how each of these affect performance and how many miles it will go up to how many mph in EV mode without the ICE turning on.
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:53 pm
There is still much speculation on how much the Volt will cost. The number $40,000 seems to crop up quite a bit.
If the Prius is supposed to priced from the lower 20s to the lower 30s, I wonder where the $40,000 Volt lies? Is that a base, mid-level, or fully loaded price? Either way, a $7,500 tax credit is rather attractive. Too bad I’m in Canada and we aren’t likely to have as many government incentives. I haven’t heard of any, at least.
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:54 pm
#8 add,
Lyle, you’ve done pretty well so far. Please try to keep it real.
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:55 pm
As I’ve said all along, the biggest competitor the Volt has will come
from China’s BYD. The Japanese, as can be seen, will not find competing against the Chinese any easier in the auto field than in any of the other 500 product lines that have been displaced from Japan to the Asian mainland.
So this Prius is the technology that the brainless Obama (”I don’t speak Austrian, not in any of the 57 states”) and his equally brainless “auto committee” (I notice that none of these on the
committee are working for any auto companies) claimed is “a generation ahead” of Detroit. Exactly which generation would that be, Washington pinheads?
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:55 pm
NPNS!
That goes for Toyota as well.
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:59 pm
I like the idea of “packages” rather than options. When I bought my ‘05 Prius, from the package list, at first, I picked the second one up. I ended up buying the 3rd one up as it had something I really wanted.
Also included was the hi intensity, low wattage, self leveling headlights, which I secretly wanted, but didn’t want to pay for (used less juice). So I actually felt good about going up a notch.
The other thing is, it is less costly and much simpler for the manufacturer to make and ship cars with 5 or 6 packages, than to have an infinite number of options from the factory.
=D~~~~
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April 21st, 2009 at 9:59 pm
For God’s Sakes!!! Can’t GM release another photo of the VOLT in a color other than Silver? With all the cutbacks going on, it is obvious that the Marketing Dept. was the first to go. Dang!!!!
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:00 pm
Hmm, how many adults does the Volt seat again? (A: 4) And how many does the Prius seat? (A: 5)
When will the Volt be available for purchase? (A: 18 months if we’re lucky… possibly 24+ months) When will the Volt be available for purchase to those of us who don’t live in one of the target major metro cities like in California, Florida or DC/NYC? (A: who knows if ever, the Volt may never get the 40 EV only range for those of us in colder Winter climates like New Hampshire… we’ll be lucky to get it in 3 years if ever). When will the 2009 Prius be available for purchase? (A: right now!)
How many Volts will be made the 1st year? (A: 10,000??) How many Prius’s will be made in the year the Volt is rolled out? (A: probably more like 100 fold that… ie. 1 million world wide)
The Prius’s competition is NOT the Volt… the 2009 Honda Insight is!
I want the Volt to be rolled out too but why does Lyle need to keep trying to pit the Volt against the Prius… it’s a FALSE choice. Both have DIFFERENT markets.
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:03 pm
Keep it real? Lyle is being as real as anyone can be with what is known. Also, keep in mind …..this is a Volt website. There is nothing wrong with optimism without falacy. From what I see there is nothing false in his statements. Keep up the good work Lyle.
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:08 pm
All I see is more steel & battery wrapped around in the same blandly styled body as the last gereration Prius. Even if it were the next gen plug in version, it would still be $32,000 worth of fluff.
And this comes from an 08′ Tundra owner.
Voltec is definately the way to go…
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:09 pm
Cost to build the Volt, $40,000. 25% subsidy by GM reduces sticker to $29,995. $7,500 credit reduces to $22,495 price to customer. Been saying it for over a year now. Still believe it. GM is on record twice stating they would be subsidizing the Volt–once saying to the same level that Toyota did on the early Prius, which was 50%. I assume 25% will make the Volt competitive.
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:13 pm
#4 here you go
http://www.automedia.com/Civic_Vs._Prius:_Compact_Hybrid_Comparison/dsm20080701ch/1
Google the word “Best” when you get a minute
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:16 pm
Look it up.
____________________
How? That’s a subjective measure.
Please provide objective criteria… like lowest price… or highest MPG …or most sold.
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:17 pm
I’m just glad that last post is over. That Honda fascist nazi was annoying.
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Here we go… a Volt vs. Prius thread. (and not even the plug in prius at that).
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Wow, if I didn’t know better, I’d say this article was a little tilted to one point of view, lol. Toyota has three trim levels at around or below the current, inferior generation and thats the headline? How about “Toyota attempts to blow the doors off the Insight,” or “Toyota proves a deep hybrid doesn’t mean you have to have deep pockets”
From the thread:
“I am told GM is “still investigating” what if any option packages the Volt might have or if it would be one well-equipped model.”
—GM is going to put out a ‘one-price’model?…has ever happened on any mass produced car in their history. I have to wonder if when the Volt pricing is announced it will read, “Fully Loaded Volt Will Cost $51,750″
I’ve said this before, but why do these cars always have to be pitted against each other in the first place…they are in totally different categories. Once Toyota is offering as a PHEV option, then ok, they are competing.
This is a total undercut of expected price point by Toyota, and we are spinning it as something else. Tacking every option on the price of the model that yields the highest possible price, and making that the soul headliine. Have we ever done this with any GM product or concept here?
The bias is showing here big time…there is no reason to knock the other guy to make ourselves feel better.
/high road not taken
…and we are adding in the destination charge on the Prius in the price headline too? Why not taxes, license and A/C charges too?….lets really get it as high as possible. The Prius guys are going to rip us a new one on this…and we deserve it.
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:19 pm
#20
I see you changed your post text to a link… which compares the Insight to a 2009 Prius, the older model.
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:22 pm
What exactly would be the point in having plug in capability in a car that travels 6 miles on batteries?
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:27 pm
detfan: “Cost to build the Volt, $40,000. 25% subsidy by GM reduces sticker to $29,995. $7,500 credit reduces to $22,495 price to customer. Been saying it for over a year now. Still believe it.”
There’s just as much evidence for a $22.5K Volt as there is for the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny and leprechauns. Do you believe in those, too?
—
Far more people can afford a $22K Prius than a $40K (maybe $32.5K after tax credit – which some may not get, due to AMT – consult your tax professional) Volt.
Luckily, GM has no plans to produce these in quantities that matter.
Toyota, on the other hand, has opened a second Prius factory and will be able to build up to 480K per year. As it’s PHEV-ready, they could, conceivably, build quite a few PHEVs, if they like the economics. This flexibility could pay off for Toyota. Imagine if gas prices DO skyrocket… suddenly switching production to a greater proportion of the PHEV Toyota with development costs almost fully amortized across both the standard and PHEV vehicles.
It’s like a license to print money.
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:31 pm
statik: “GM is going to put out a ‘one-price’model?…has ever happened on any mass produced car in their history. I have to wonder if when the Volt pricing is announced it will read, “Fully Loaded Volt Will Cost $51,750″
‘One-price’ is the strategy GM used in their GMT900 SUV hybrids. Which do not sell.
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Lyle: “A Chevy Volt in the mid to upper 30 thousand range take off $7500 for government tax credit could very well cost the buyer less and likely be similarly equipped with creature comforts.”
Does any GM car currently have Dynamic Radar Cruise Control, Lane Keep Assist, Pre-Collision System and Intelligent Parking Assist? It has been reported on GM-Volt that the Volt won’t offer the solar sunroof cooling option.
In other words, the Volt is extremely unlikely to be “similarly equipped” AND priced less.
Charlie H: Dedicated to KIR (Keepin’ It Real)
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:45 pm
Sorry Lyle, but that post just comes of as pathetic and desperate spin.
The real news is that there are some very capable hybrids available now and shortly at $20-$21K.
Price of saving fuel now rather than waiting 2 years for the Volt release (or perhaps 3-4 years for wide availability): Approx. Negative $20,000.
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:48 pm
______________________________________________________
Ten things I can do with a Volt that I can’t do with a Prius:
1. I can drive to work without burning gas.
2. I can drive to the store without burning gas.
3. I can drive to the movies without burning gas.
4: I can drive to a friend’s house without burning gas.
5: I can drive to dinner without burning gas.
6: I can drive to the bank without burning gas.
7: I can drive to pick up the kids from school without burning gas.
8: I can teach my son to drive a car without burning gas.
9: I can drive pass a gas station without burning gas.
10: I can take a drive without contributing aid and comfort to dictators and terrorists.
______________________________________________________
Electric Cars + Nuclear Energy = American Energy Independence!
______________________________________________________
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:57 pm
For those of you who say the Volt and the Prius won’t compete:
You will only be correct if the Volt isn’t released. The Prius is the double-hamburger to the Volt’s triple. Most people will set out to get a hamburger and realize the double is more than they need and the triple is mostly just more cost for something they don’t need.
Some people may even do the calculations and realize that they are paying triple prices for a hamburger that in many cases will not yield them more meat than the double (and in some cases less).
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:58 pm
There is an interesting editorial today on Motor Trend discussing the idea of utility companies possibly wanting to buy the used Volt batteries:
“What if a major chunk of the Volt’s battery bill winds up subsidized by the utilities (who’s interest is to sell electricity after all) or floated by the government until the utilities take possession of them? All those analysts who are writing the Volt off as uneconomic may need to redo their sums.”
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6524364/editorial/miscellaneous-ramblings-prius-pricing-volt-batteries-and-grand-prix-music/index.html
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April 21st, 2009 at 10:59 pm
#10 Gary Says: There is still much speculation on how much the Volt will cost. The number $40,000 seems to crop up quite a bit.
————————————————————————————–
The Volt will probably be priced around $29,000 after the tax credit.
GM VP John Lauckner indicated he expects the Volt to be priced in the mid 30s:
http://gm-volt.com/2008/10/17/car-and-driver-on-the-volt-tens-of-thousands-in-first-year-generation-two-after-5-years/
and the government is issuing a $7500 tax credit.
Somehow, the press go hold of that $40,000 figure and they seem to self-perpetuate it. It doesn’t seem to matter what GM says the Volt will cost, or that there is a hefty tax credit, because the media just keeps pounding that $40,000 figure over and over…
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:07 pm
#32 GXT Says: For those of you who say the Volt and the Prius won’t compete: You will only be correct if the Volt isn’t released. The Prius is the double-hamburger to the Volt’s triple. Most people will set out to get a hamburger and realize the double is more than they need and the triple is mostly just more cost for something they don’t need.
————————————————————————————–
With the Volt, an average driver will only have to go to the gas station about once every 3 months, except on vacations or other really long trips.
Once people get the concept that you only have to go to the gas station every 3 months or so, I think the Prius/Volt comparison will be more like a hamburger and stuffed salmon. It’s a whole different animal.
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:11 pm
31 CDAVIS:
You missed a few:
11: Pay nearly twice as much for a Volt that will likely use more fuel than a Prius when driven even as little as 100 miles highway.
12: Pay nearly twice as much for a Volt that, if you typically only drive 15 miles/day, will save you only ~100 gallons of fuel/year.
13: Validate GM’s low-volume and years-late-to-market solution that will result in Toyota and Honda having saved billions of gallons of fuel by the time the Volt makes it to market (if it makes it to market).
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:11 pm
@32 GXT,
Thanks a lot, now I’m hungry.
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Sorry Statik, but on this one I have to disagree with you completely.
This is the Volt site, so yes, the bias is going to be tilted somewhat. Just as the Prius site will tilt their way. Why would you expect anything else?
But saying we deserve to get ripped for publishing the prices as listed by Toyota for the new model, and Lyle naming the thread as “Fully Loaded 2010 Prius Will Cost $32,500″ is unfair on your part. I think he was about as clear as he could get. I am sure that on the day the price and options list is made available by GM, Lyle will post it, but until then, what else do you expect him to do?
And as far as the Volt / Prius comparison you think should not be done, it seems to me that it is more the Prius fans that make that comparison than the posters here. We keep saying that the Prius is a parallel Hybrid with no plug and not even close to the serial hybrid Volt design. Then what is get back is: No, you are wrong, the Prius is a FULL hybrid which is much better technology, and will only cost $22K, so why buy a Volt? And then they demand detailed specs on the design and performance. Oh sure, GM will just hand that over right now….
Unlike you, I don’t have a problem with a single unit with limited purchase options for the Gen-1 Volt. My Crossfire only had three options when I bought mine the first year it was released in late 2003. There was Auto or Manual transmission, Michellin Pilot-2 or Continental All Season tires, and the interior/exterior colors. I know this would make Tag and Capt Jack unhappy, as they have said many times they want bare bones models, but as we are not the people making the final decisions, all we can really do is wait.
For being unfair to Lyle, I sentence you to having to ride the Teacups 20 times at the Magic Kingdom!
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:14 pm
#2 john1710a – Congrats on your new car. I’m sure you’ll enjoy it!
#24 statik – Yeah you what you said. The Prius is really a very nice piece of technology. Very ingenious. If something much cooler wasn’t a possibility I’d definitely be interested. But it is so I’m not — NPNS and all that.
However, it may be that Lyle is attempting to balance out your viewpoint. Just a thought. LOL
#38 Jim I says “For being unfair to Lyle, I sentence you to having to ride the Teacups 20 times at the Magic Kingdom!”
That’s cold. You wouldn’t of course be suggesting that a ride in the Teacups might be compared to a ride in a Prius, are you?
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:14 pm
#32 GXT,
” The Prius is the double-hamburger to the Volt’s triple. Most people will set out to get a hamburger and realize the double is more than they need and the triple is mostly just more cost for something they don’t need.”
________________________________________________
2010 Tesla Roadster photo released:
http://greensboring.com/pod/in-n-out2.jpg
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:17 pm
#31 CDAVIS Says: Ten things I can do with a Volt that I can’t do with a Prius…
————————————————————————————–
There are also other very appealing qualities about the Volt:
1) Instant power off the line or at low speeds.
2) VERY quiet – No engine noise most of the time.
3) You only have to go to the gas station every 3 months or so. Much less hassle.
4) Just the fact that it uses new technology is appealing to many.
So even for people who don’t care about saving gas, the Volt still offers many appealing qualities.
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:19 pm
#40 carcus1 Says: 2010 Tesla Roadster photo released:
http://greensboring.com/pod/in-n-out2.jpg
————————————————————————————–
Yum…
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:20 pm
#31 CDAVIS
10: I can take a drive without contributing aid and comfort to dictators and terrorists.
Hmmm…I think that US policy is changing on this one. I saw a handshake and a gift of goodwill. A greeting and a book is much cheaper than a bailout. In order to be prepared…I would guess that Iran’s president is searching his library for just the right book.
Or maybe…I just misunderstood.
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:21 pm
35 Dave G,
I too would prefer not to go to the gas station. But I typically only go 12 times per year. But with a Volt I would have to plug in my car at least 365 times per year. I also have to unplug it 365 times. That is not a great trade-off to save 8 trips to the gas station/year.
Plus, assuming the Volt costs 12,000 to 15,000 more than the Prius and I drive it for 6 years, that is about $300 I am paying each time I have the “privilege” to do just under 100 trips to the plug for each gas station fill avoided.
It really isn’t a great trade-off. I bet I could improve my winter fuel economy by 15% by plugging in my block heater each night. I don’t bother.
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:22 pm
40. Carus1:
Heh! Obscene-o-liscious!
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:24 pm
charlie h #29: “In other words, the Volt is extremely unlikely to be “similarly equipped” AND priced less.”
Now who is being unfair and biased? You are taking a model that has been on the market for 12 years and is in its third revison, and comparing it to a car that is not set for Gen-1 release until Nov, 2010! Exactly what options were on the 1997 Prius????
I am sure the 2022 Volt Gen-3 will have a few more added features as well!
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:28 pm
41 Dave G wrote:
“1) Instant power off the line or at low speeds.”
And yet it seems to have a worse 0-60 time than a 4-cyl Honda Accord. I must admit that I really am curious to feel the instant torque of an electric car and see how that relates to the generally poor (for even a $25,000 car) acceleration.
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:30 pm
#42 Dave G.
#44 GXT,
Sounds like we can all agree.
The 2010 Tesla Roadster is a real heart stopper.
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:34 pm
46. Jim I,
Lyle’s post aside, I don’t think anyone would expect the 1st gen Volt to offer similar features for a similar price as the 3rd gen Prius. But at the same time I don’t think many consumers are going to be happying paying more for less with the Volt just because GM wasn’t smart enough to make a competitive hybrid years ago (or even now), or decided to go down this crazy route because of their case of Prius-Envy.
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:35 pm
GXT #44: “But with a Volt I would have to plug in my car at least 365 times per year. I also have to unplug it 365 times.”
Now I am truly speechless……
Your logic is that it is bad to buy a PHEV, because of the inconvenience of plugging it in at night and unplugging it in the morning?????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!
I think you are going to have to come with a better line than that……
Have a good night.
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April 21st, 2009 at 11:36 pm
#38 Jim I
For being unfair to Lyle, I sentence you to having to ride the Teacups 20 times at the Magic Kingdom!
—————————————————————————-
That sentence is too light…it should be 20 rides on “It’s a Small World”
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April 22nd, 2009 at 12:34 am
Yes, the Prius may have some great options at a great price, but it will not attract any new buyers. Whoever didn’t like the current Prius’ looks won’t like this one… and no amount of available options will change their mind.
The Volt looks so much better than the Prius side by side. The Prius looks like a wedge-shaped goldfish with a French mustache…
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April 22nd, 2009 at 2:11 am
I think we need to stop comparing the Prius and Volt. They are totally different animals. Even the PHEV Prius is quite different from the Volt. We don’t want to set the Volt up like it is competing with the Insight and Prius, because people will mistakenly think they are similar cars (and then look at the price difference).
In any event, it seems a bit odd to compare a fully-loaded Prius with the base model Volt, which will prolly be almost the same price.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 2:19 am
Of course the Prius and the Volt are in competition. Nobody said they were exactly the same, but they are worth a comparison. Granted we won’t see these things competing head to head for another 2 years or so, but people will certainly be comparing them.
If I had to speculate, I would guess GM will price the Volt at $37,499, similar to what Tesla did, so that they can bring the price to a psychologically “low” level of $29,999 after the tax incentive. The Volt will include Bose speakers (way better than JBL) and probably a navigation system since it’s already got the high tech center console thing, they might as well make it a navigation screen. The Volt will probably have quite a few standard features that the Prius has as options in other words.
That all being said, and with the Volt’s obvious benefits over a regular joe shmow hybrid like the Prius, and the fact that it’s a first gen model, it’s encouraging if GM can keep the price of the Volt even in the same ball park as the Prius. I imagine the Volt’s options will be similar to the Prius IV with the Navigation package which costs about $27,600. So in comparing $29,999 vs $27,600? I’d say that’s more or less ball park. A mere $2,400 cost difference between a Prius and Volt? People will be beating GM dealership’s doors down. Even if they could get the price difference to about $5,000, I think there would still be tons of demand for the Volt. Think about the fact that Toyota is probably planning on selling about 200,000 Priuses a year. GM should be at least able to sell at least half that many Volts, don’t you all think?
Great article Lyle.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 2:34 am
Think about this, if the Volt includes a navigation system, and all of the options of the Prius V, which just means you get 17″ wheels, and some LED head lights, (and I’m pretty sure the Volt will include fog lights from the looks of the pictures) and GM priced the Volt at $37,500 before tax incentive, the difference between the Volt and Prius would be less than $1k. Granted there were a lot of ifs in there, but I still think it demonstrates that comparing the Volt to the Prius is a good way to gauge what the demand will be for the Volt. Once we get into Gen 2, cheaper and smaller battery, already amortized engineering costs, smaller gas engine, and economy of scale similar to the Prius, that’s when the real fun begins for competition!
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April 22nd, 2009 at 2:36 am
Many compare prices of the Volt and Prius, and are quick to conclude that the Volt will be a rip-off in comparison. This is the same as saying that a Corvette is a rip off compared to a Cobalt SS. They are both fast cars. Look:
http://forums.clubrsx.com/showthread.php?t=600389
A Cobalt SS is about half the price of a Corvette, but some people are willing to pay the premium for the Corvette’s exclusivity, styling, and extra power. Car purchases involve a lot of emotion and status seeking.
Old Paradigm:
Spend a premium on a car with tons of power and standout styling to show off to friends, family, neighbors, and even complete strangers. It doesn’t make financial sense, but the car’s owner feels good about increased status among his peers.
New Paradigm:
Spend a premium on a car with extreme fuel-saving technology and standout styling to show off to friends, family, neighbors, and even complete strangers. It doesn’t make financial sense, but the car’s owner feels good about increased status among his peers.
Heck, even buying a Prius can be called a rip-off compared to a Corolla which already has great fuel economy. The two cars use different powertrains… it’s just a matter of how much a customer is willing to pay for each.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 6:04 am
fully loaded will cost $40000 and it will easy to buy since ther is tax credits, we also need luxury and a good brand, the design and features of the volt are better. the late(GM) carmakers will always come with the latest and wait and watch. toyota wont sell much in USA because they have plenty of orders in japan itself.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 6:19 am
All 1st year Volts should be fully loaded, which will bring down the cost of a fully loaded vehicle.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 6:47 am
#38 Jim I said:
For being unfair to Lyle, I sentence you to having to ride the Teacups 20 times at the Magic Kingdom!
==========================
I had to go on it twice…but I did have to buy three $6.50 hot dogs….so I’d call the whole thing even.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 7:07 am
I here Gen II of the volt is going to have dynamic radar cruise control, a plasmacluster ionizer, AND a PU-36 space modulator vehicle protection system.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 7:13 am
#31, CDAVIS,
Actually, you can’t do any of those things with a Volt, either, as the Volt does not yet exist.
Someday, maybe, you will be able to do those things with a Volt but then “maybe… will” also applies to the Prius.
—
#34, Dave G, on the Volt Price and the $40K figure…
You referenced an earlier GM-Volt article, which links to a C/D article. Doesn’t anyone ever read the C/D article? Lauckner didn’t say whether or not the upper $30s was before or after the federal tax credit. Now, think about that. If the price was, say, $37K before the credit, Laucker could have easily said, “… and then there’s help from the Federal government to make the car affordable… the real cost will be about $30K.”
But he didn’t. Just like Ceisel, the other day, didn’t actually give Lyle a single hard number. GM execs are extremely careful with what they say about the Volt’s availability and pricing. So should we.
Car and Driver went on to say, “What GM doesn’t say explicitly is that the customer will likely have paid an extra $20,000 for the car compared with the price of a conventional compact. ”
GM didn’t stop them from saying that, either, and no follow up lettter to the editor that I noticed correcting this misimpression, if misimpression it is.
—
#46, Jim I, “Charlie H, you are being unfair… in 1997 what options did the Prius have?”
This isn’t 1997. Which is one of GM’s problems. They don’t have to compete with what the Prius was, they have to compete with what the Prius is or, more accurately, will be in late 2010.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 7:31 am
After reading this thread, I guess we are doing comparisons.
The Toyota Prius does its business in the value hybrid segment. For the Volt to ‘compete’ here with the Prius they are going to have to get a lot closer to Toyota’s 500,000ish annual production than 0 or 10,000, or 60,000 to even register a blip.
And why does the rebate always last forever in these debates? For this particular debate, the Volt needs to have sold at least 500,000 to a 1,000,000 copies before it could realistically be seen ‘competing’…which means the rebate is long gone.
Toyota is going to sell well over 3 million Prius before the US even gets close to having one million EVs (from all manufacturers) on the road…in fact you need to have tons of the Toyota Prius PHEV included in that ‘million’ number to make it a close race, which is pretty ironic.
Gary in #55 is right. This is like comparing a Corvette to a Cobalt SS anyway. It is a little asinine. The Corvette is the hotness…the Cobalt is the cheapness. Volt v1.0 versus the gen III Prius is the same thing.
Side note:
Family Florida Vacation Day #5:
Attempt #2 for Epcot
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April 22nd, 2009 at 7:35 am
Electronic parking assist is for the mentally deficient. Show me someone who can’t parallel park, and I’ll show you someone who should have their license revoked. Really.
#56 Gary – You said it, brother. I’ve been saying this for months to the Toyota fanboyz that trash the cost-benefit of a Volt. It’s not about making the money back in gas savings; it’s about buying the car you want. A Prius purchase also cannot be financially justified. Buy a Cobalt instead of a Prius and you will have an extra $10,000 in your pocket to spend on a little extra gas. People don’t make car purchases based on ROI, otherwise we’d all be driving around in Aveos and Fits.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 7:40 am
totally misleading title from Lyle. Instead it should be “$21k Toyota Prius is here along with $19k Honda Insight and they will kick $40k Volt a$$!”
If we ever to see Volt that is…
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April 22nd, 2009 at 7:56 am
Looking at the two of them side by side there is no question that the Volt is more stylish and sporty. The Prius looks stodgy and bulky.
I for one am still waiting to be able to purchase my Volt as soon as it is out in mid-Michigan no less.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:01 am
My 2 cents or maybe 3 cents adjusted for inflation:
Honda Insight = Good car, great price.
Toyota Prius = Great car, good price.
Chevrolet Volt = The future of green transportation.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:02 am
Not to mention.. 50 mpg? In a year’s time I can break 40 in a Cruze for a fraction the price…. Yes.. I’d prefer a volt… but many of us following this blog really can’t afford a first generation volt – perhaps by the second or third generation…..
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:02 am
When the Toyoda and Honda fans get to bothering you more than you want to endure, just go back to the top of the thread and look at the photos of the cars. Personally I hope the Volt is never down graded enough to be a Prius type vehicle. Till they have a plug and respectable AER with a serial drive train, they represent old technology. I know its coming but as the toyoda fans like to say it isn’t here yet.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:08 am
I’ll take the Chevy Cruze any day over any Prius when it come out June of next year. The starting price will be a little over $15,000.00 and the car already has great reviews for the ones sold in Europe. The Cruze will get over forty MPG and is not even a hybrid.
That should knock the socks off the Prius and Hondas!
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:13 am
Obviously, this new Prissy is an improvement over the last model. It will now have to compete with the Hindsight and the Ford Fusion hybrid.
But where will the automotive future be? It seems that electric vehicles may be the answer. At the SAE World Congress, Raser’s electric H3 Hummer is advertised as a “100 mpg” vehicle, with low emissions.
Raser CEO Brent M. Cook said, “The technology in this electric-powered Hummer is a leap ahead for U.S. Automakers. It could make the nation’s popular light trucks and SUVs greener than a Prius.”
So if this electric Hummer (with an E-REV type configuration and GM 4 cyl engine) can be greener than a Prissy, how much better will the Volt be?
This provides a prime example of where automotive design will likely be heading in the future.
Dave G,
Can you believe it!
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:24 am
I hate it when a large male baboon picks a fight with you over something trivial (like stealing one of his females) and then doesn’t finish it, just strutting away showing off his large red ischial callosity as if we cared. Some friend he turned out to be.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:26 am
It’s all good. Bring on fuel efficient cars.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:29 am
The most important option is the $10k Hymotion plug-in pack for the Prius..
http://www.a123systems.com/hymotion/products/N5_range_extender
it wont be too long until they make one for the 2010 Prius.
With million+ Priuses on the roads these packs can make a significant impact.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:31 am
statik #59:
Only if you also bought the three 8 oz Pepsi @ $5.00 each to go with it!
Have fun at EPCOT.
Or else……
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:32 am
Prius is essentially an ICE wagon.
Volt is essentially an EV.(?twice the expected life?)
Aftermarket for Volt batteries for home solar systems will offset some of cost disadvantage.
Battery improvements may make BEV vehicles more practical especially with an optional range extender.
It may be that the cost of solar cells is as important to the success of the Volt as anything else. Cheaper cells would increase demand for used Volt batteries.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:34 am
Speaking of hybrids, here is an article of a 100+ MPG H3 Hummer.
http://www.rasertech.com/news/press-releases/raser-technologies-unveils-100-mpg-plug-in-hybrid-hummer
Maybe SUV’s and trucks will again dominate the US market.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:36 am
Schmeltz @ 66 says:
My 2 cents or maybe 3 cents adjusted for inflation:
Honda Insight = Good car, great price.
Toyota Prius = Great car, good price.
Chevrolet Volt = The future of green transportation.
My sentiments exactly.
NO plug, NO sale
LJGTVWOTR
/Have you got a new saying for after July Tag?
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:44 am
#2 john1710a – How did you order your 2010 Prius? Not through the website I suspect? Was there special ordering? I bought my 01 and 04 Prius online but I never heard this could be done with the 2010. How did you manage this?
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:56 am
Herm @ 73
BUt it is only warrentied for 3 years, say it lasted five, then you got another for another five years, that would add 20 thousand to your base price.
And no tax credits either.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:57 am
Ten things I can do with a Volt that I can’t do with a Prius:
1. I can drive to work without burning gas.
2. I can drive to the store without burning gas.
3. I can drive to the movies without burning gas.
4: I can drive to a friend’s house without burning gas.
5: I can drive to dinner without burning gas.
6: I can drive to the bank without burning gas.
7: I can drive to pick up the kids from school without burning gas.
8: I can teach my son to drive a car without burning gas.
9: I can drive pass a gas station without burning gas.
10: I can take a drive without contributing aid and comfort to dictators and terrorists.
______________________________________________________
Electric Cars + Nuclear Energy = American Energy Independence
================
Make that 11 things
You can buy a car made in america by americans ,when you choose a prius you are creating 1 job in japan and eliminating 1 job in america.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 9:09 am
#47 GXT says “And yet it seems to have a worse 0-60 time than a 4-cyl Honda Accord”
That’s because of the gearing, the small battery, and the small motor. The Prius isn’t an EV — the ICE is always engaged and the car is always in top gear so to speak — so it won’t behave like one.
But I’ve seen plenty of young drivers move off the line briskly. Yesterday one had no trouble moving along with with a Corvette in the adjoining lane. The ICE probably kicked in off the line, but it was moving as fast as any of the other cars. As in all cases, it’s just how you drive it. No doubt the Corvette is faster, but the fact is that rarely does anyone drive a car at anything close to its maximum.
This illustrates another fact of life: Anything — a Vespa or a Prius or a Scion — driven by a 20 something will generally be faster than other vehicles off the line. Imagine that.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 9:10 am
Yes the warranty is an issue, but you will probably get long life if you treat it the same way GM does the Volt battery. It is also a 2-3 old design, I’m sure it will improve.
The funny part is that a 2010 Prius with a $10k aftermarket pack may still be cheaper than a 2011 Volt WITH a $7500 tax credit.
Also A123 has new battery modules developed for Chrysler, lower cost.. maybe these will also be used in the Prius packs.. and they are building new factories (or trying to) in Michigan.
………………………………………………
#79 NZDavid Says: April 22nd, 2009 at 8:56 am
Herm @ 73
BUt it is only warrentied for 3 years, say it lasted five, then you got another for another five years, that would add 20 thousand to your base price.
And no tax credits either.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 9:22 am
#56 Gary – Summed up nicely. But this brings up the resale issue. If the Volt is primarily about its tech, and since Items valued for their tech can depreciate rapidly as new generations hit the market, what does this mean for resale value?
In CA this hasn’t affected resales of the early Prius because only the first ones got HOV stickers. They sell at a premium! LOL
Like all new tech, the first generation Volt will be overbuilt in many ways because, not knowing the true weak points, the engineers will have to make everything very rugged. As they move up and along the learning curve they will figure out how to take costs out, which invariably means cheaper components. IOW Volt I will be a tank.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 9:28 am
Herm #82: “The funny part is that a 2010 Prius with a $10k aftermarket pack may still be cheaper than a 2011 Volt WITH a $7500 tax credit.”
The only real problem with the aftermarket upgrade option is that you will destroy any warranty you may have with Toyota.
That is why many of us here want a complete PHEV from a major manufacturer with a real warranty. And the E-REV design takes out the range anxiety problem…. So for me, the Volt makes sense
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April 22nd, 2009 at 9:33 am
The Honda Insight web site has a very interesting demo of its Eco-Assist. While the Prius gives the driver feedback about mileage, the Insight seems to have made the process much more intuitive.
http://automobiles.honda.com/2010-insight/?from=http://insight.honda.com/#/eco-assist/
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April 22nd, 2009 at 9:35 am
#61 CharlieH Says:
“This isn’t 1997. Which is one of GM’s problems. They don’t have to compete with what the Prius was, they have to compete with what the Prius is or, more accurately, will be in late 2010.”
———————————–
Gen 1 of the Volt will not have to compete with the Prius since they’re not even making enough to satisfy the enthusiasts. You’re right that Gen 3 probably will.
But I think that the 2014 Volt will be much more competitive with the 2014 Prius pricewise than the 2010 Volt versus the 2010 Prius. And the further out you go, the better the Volt and other EVs will look against the Prius (and regular ICE cars). The Prius will not stand still, but older technologies usually improve at a much slower rate than newer ones.
First generation computers didn’t compete well with typewriters. It took years before cell phones became more popular than landlines. It may take until gen 5 before Voltech goes truly mainstream. But that won’t happen if we don’t invest in gen one. This is not a short term investment.
Right now, the only thing the Volt needs to compete with the Prius on is image. And it wins that battle the minute the first one shows up in a dealership.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 9:36 am
Herm says:
Yes the warranty is an issue, but you will probably get long life if you treat it the same way GM does the Volt battery. It is also a 2-3 old design, I’m sure it will improve.
The funny part is that a 2010 Prius with a $10k aftermarket pack may still be cheaper than a 2011 Volt WITH a $7500 tax credit.
True, but you can’t treat them like the Volt battery. They are designed to discharge first then switch over to the normal Prius battery and wait for recharge. So to match the Volt warranty you should calculate two batteries over a ten year life, which will add 20 thousand to the cost.
Say a Prius 111 @ 23K + 20 K = 43 thousand, probably, more than the Volt.
Statik, would probably demand I use three battery replacements to match the warranty better!
/It’s good to compare like with like.
NO plug, NO sale
LJGTVWOTR
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April 22nd, 2009 at 9:37 am
#62 statik says “Attempt #2 for Epcot”
=====================================
Be sure to go to the Japanese pavilion at one of the times when the drummers come out and do their show.
Be sure to go to the ride through the exhibit that grows plants in air. (It is close to Soarin, which I’m sure you’ll go to.)
Our favorite place for lunch is the English place. Get “Bangers..”
Keep in mind that in the evening if you choose to eat at some Epcot spots you get a special admission route to see Fantasmic!. That way you get better seats and don’t have to wait as long for the show to start.
RB
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April 22nd, 2009 at 9:41 am
It’s funny, if you look under the “About” section of this site you find
“Dr. Lyle Dennis writes and publishes this site. Although a full-time physician, Lyle is a highly-committed advocate for widespread use of alternative energy and petroleum displacement, and believes the adoption of this vehicle will have a tremendously positive impact both on this country and the world as a whole.”
And yet Dr. Lyle Dennis consistently bashes the Prius on this site. As far as I can tell the Prius is the best car out there to displace petroleum and will be the best car out there for the next 2 years (maybe the Honda Insight).
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:03 am
#56 Gary
“Car purchases involve a lot of emotion and status seeking.”
Thanks for the reset for the many here who seem to think the purchase decision is logical.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:05 am
#89 confused says “And yet Dr. Lyle Dennis consistently bashes the Prius on this site”
————————————–
Another way to think about it is that this site frequently references and compares Volt to Prius because the Prius has set the standard that everyone else has to meet or exceed. In that way, showing (hoping, or arguing) that Volt will be better is quite a favorable citation of Toyota and Prius.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:15 am
I comapred the economics of a Prius IV at $25.8 vs a Volt at $37.5. I did not consider the subsidy for the volt as only 250,000 motorists will get the subsidy, and this accounts for perhaps 0.5% of US car buyers over a 5 year period.
The Volt will save 1,048 gallons of gas over a 100,000 mile operating life (105 mpg vs 50 mpg). This will pay for the $11,700 price premium if gas costs at least $11.17 per gallon.
PHEVs have no future unless the price can be radically reduced.
This is the whole story for the Volt, irrespective of the form of the plug, the length of the battery only range, the styling of the fenders, the city where it is first marketed, or the ability to climb Pikes peak.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:19 am
On the economic benefits of upgrading from HEV to PHEV:
The most $ a PHEV will ever save you over a 50 mpg HEV is the equivalent of 300 gallons of gas per year (15,000 mi/yr /50 mi/g = 300 g : 40 miles electric per day X 365 days per year = 14,600 miles per year). Start figuring in the cost of large battery pack replacement, cost of electricity to charge the car, loss of interest on the initial investment, and it basically becomes near impossible to make an economic argument for plug in hybrids over 50 mpg HEV’s.
In fact, the initial purchase price of a PHEV may actually need to be cheaper than the HEV to make economic sense (depending on gas price, battery life).
It’s probably not a good idea for a volt fan sight to dwell on the cost comparisons vs the prius.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:29 am
WE are talking 4 different technologies here.
1 – internal combustion – the new kid on the block will be the Cruze @ 40 MPG cost $18,000 +/-
2 – Hybrid after 8 years this is a proven technology Prius @ 50 MPG cost $30,000 +/-
3 – EV – still costly $75,000 but thanks to Tesla on the road. Like all new technologies the cost will continue to go down – remember the first cell phones when you had a battery pack in the trunk of your car?
4 – Voltec – extended range – newest technology – unproven but looks promising Cost $40,000 and future cost to be reduced via battery technology and costs
All work but in the long term I like the Voltec technology because it eliminates range anxiety – (my wife would not drive a pure EV) – and it reduces the consumption of oil. I believe that GM will come out with different range batteries 20, 30, 40 and longer in the future.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:30 am
Tom H # 92:
I have to disagree with your conclusion. Firt of all you are using 105 mpg vs 50 as the comparison.
With a PHEV, you have to consider milers per CHARGE.
The design of the Volt is that if you drive under 40 miles per day, you will use NO gasoline. For me, that is the case for 6 out of seven days per week. I expect my total gasoline consumption to be under 50 gallons PER YEAR!
But that is not really the main reason for my interest in the Volt. It is to reduce CO2, stop sending my money to people that want to kill me, and to be on the leading edge of a new type of transportation. And it will go nowhere unless we send a strong signal that we are ready to buy the E-REV design of the Gen-1 Volt. If that costs me a few dollars more, then I consider it money well spent!
JMHO
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:34 am
Dang, 90someodd posts already?!?!?!?
Just build my Volt Dangit!!!
No Power Windows
No Power Adjust Seats
No Power Side view mirrors
No Power Sunroof (Actually No Sunroof at all)
No Power Door Locks
No Power Trunk lock
No Radio (Remember that fiasco? – Get an iPod)
No Heated Seats
No OnStar!!!
Make the garbage I listed, but another mans treasure, an “Upgrade” for those who want these creature comforts.
Standard Features:
4 Wheels
Highway Capable
AC
Heater
Defogger Front/Rear
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge.
I’ll take my Volt with No Generator, No ICE, ShAkEn not StirreD…
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:35 am
GM needs to start marketing the benefits of an electric drive train as in the Volt. i can’t wait till the EPA gives the Volt it’s mileage rating.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:42 am
@carcus1 93
“It’s probably not a good idea for a volt fan sight to dwell on the cost comparisons vs the prius.”
Tru dat!
Make comparisons when they are both present and accounted for first and use real data.
Most people need to remember that the tax credit DOES NOTHING for the loan you open to buy the volt and DOES NOTHING for your monthly payments. Most people buy on what they can afford on a onthly basis. So if the Volt is at $37,500.00 and you finance that and the Prius or Insight is at $22,000.00 and you finance that, which car is more in the affordabability range for most of the people who have reduced income.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:42 am
Power Mode, yummy.
Use it for the Stop Light Grand Prix. Otherwise use EV mode for short in town errands and Eco mode elswhere and elsewhen. Win, win, win.
When will Toyo come out with the sexier two door hybrid with a power super mode (PMS), gas Ferrari eating mode (FEM) for aggressive women, since the current, soon to be obsolete version already beats gas Porshes off the line (those companies are also considering electric drive, so I’m starting to differentiate now)? The performance premium could mean they can really milk profits (oh, that didn’t work so well with the Saturn Sky and Pontiac Solstice, did it? You have to do the strategic tooling investment, marketing and sales right for once, GM (i.e. your dealers and your anti-vehicle-efficiency lobbying to governments are currently part of the problem, not part of the solution)).
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:45 am
The unanswered question is what will be the “plug-in option” cost.
Lets say the fleet sale price is around the $21,000 bare bones model price plus the plug in option price. Since Hymotion can modify the car for $10,000, one would suspect the plug in option would be less than $10,000. If we assume an extra $4000 for increasing the battery from 1.3 to 5.2 kWh, and an extra $2000 for a bigger traction motor and charger, we come up with a ball park of $27,000 for the Plug in Prius that goes on sale in December. And with the $3000 tax incentive, that brings the price down to $24,000.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:50 am
CHARLIE H @29 SAYS: “Does any GM car currently have Dynamic Radar Cruise Control, Lane Keep Assist, Pre-Collision System and Intelligent Parking Assist? —————————————————————–
I, for one, actually know how to drive, and I don’t need any of that crap.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:53 am
If the Volt and plug-in hybrids ever come to market, I suggest everyone sell their fossil fuel related stock.
Maybe beat the rush and sell now.
NPNS!
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:57 am
To Dale Says 94 and others:
This is a typical example of being in denial. It’s already mentioned on numerous sites and right here as well that most buyers will get Prius II for $22k MSRP, yet some insist on $30k+ range.
Comparing car to a cell phone is plain wrong. You can not scale down car engine, battery and body the way you scale down cell phone microchips. I believe it will be opposite – there more cars will use Li-ion batteries, there more expensive they will be. Simply because right now Li-ion technology is economical only if you use Li salt deposits which are very limited worldwide.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:05 am
#43 Jeff:
Man, I sure hope so.
#59 statik:
I sure hope you rode the Teacups BEFORE you ate those hot dogs!
#66 Schmeltz & # 77 NZDavid:
Me too.
#80 Randy:
Amen. Thanks.
Is it just me, or are these threads getting more professional and less political? Suits me.
I think that the Prius price comparison is very useful. When you see what a Prius with the most popular options costs, it makes the “guesstimated” Volt prices we see a little more palatable.
BTW, my wife says the she absolutely has to have leather seats and a nav system, or she will just keep her Impala, thank you very much. So whether they’re part of the package or options, we’ve gotta have them somehow.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:10 am
I bought in to a copper mine but they went into gold .
Whats up with that ?
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:12 am
______________________________________________________
#36 GXT Said:
31 CDAVIS:
You missed a few:
11: Pay nearly twice as much for a Volt that will likely use more fuel than a Prius when driven even as little as 100 miles highway.
12: Pay nearly twice as much for a Volt that, if you typically only drive 15 miles/day, will save you only ~100 gallons of fuel/year.
13: Validate GM’s low-volume and years-late-to-market solution that will result in Toyota and Honda having saved billions of gallons of fuel by the time the Volt makes it to market (if it makes it to market).
____
My response:
Misleading Price Comparison:
GXT frames the VOLT costing 2X Prious. Lyle above states the Prius will have 5 price categories ranging $21,000 – $32,500. GXT is therefore asserting that the Volt price categories will range $42,000 – $65,000. Although GM has not released a MSRP for the Volt, a likely Volt price categories range for generation #1 is $37,000 – $48,000. A difference of about $15,000 through the entire pricing categories ranges which is mostly a result of the added cost of the battery. Adjusted for the $7,500 Federal Government Plug-In Tax Incentive, the difference comes out to ~$7,500 across the entire pricing categories ranges.
2) Misleading Miles Driven Examples:
GXT arrives at conclusions using miles driven examples that are non-typical. The fact of the matter is that the average person drives ~14,200 miles/year (averaging 39miles/day). Therefore the vast majority of the Volt miles driven will be covered under the Volts 40 miles grid-electric range.
What does $7,500 buy you over the Prius?
1. Gas payback economics ( @ Prius 50mpg):
Gas @ $2.20/gl = ~10 years
Gas @ 3.30/gl = ~7.5 years
Gas @ $4.40/gl = ~5 years
2. Looks:
Go to the top of the page and look at those photos. Prius = Tin Can Sedan. Volt = Stylish Sports Sedan.
3. Performance:
Prius = Slow off the line. Volt = “delightfully responsive”
4. Gas Free Driving:
The vast majority of driving will be gas free. What is the value of giving OPEC the finger? Answer: Priceless. Every single less gallon of foreign imported gas America does not need to militarily secure/stabilize, the more secure America becomes with regards to American Energy Independence. We owe it to our young people serving in the military to not put them in a possible scenario of their sacrificing their lives over America’s reliance on foreign sourced energy.
Final Analysis:
The Prius may trump the Volt if your ONLY consideration is short term gas payback economics and you don’t mind driving a sluggish tin can sedan. Speaking for myself, I’m going with the Volt.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:14 am
CDavis
Excellent Top 10 list!
DaveG
You say the VOLT will be $29,000 after the tax credit. That would make it $36,500 at time of purchase since you don’t get the refund when you’re signing loan docs. With Tax, License and Reg that makes it about $40,515 OTD in California.
Even if the average customer puts down $5,515 the monthly payment is going to be about $700 per month. For most of the high tech engineers that post on this blog, that’s probably no big deal for a payment. But for Joe Consumer, the price of gas would have to be pretty high to close them on that.
My point is that the VOLT will be the New GM’s crown jewel and proof of concept car. THEN when battery prices get cheaper they can produce a Chevy Cruze EREV for (hopefully) $495 or less per month on the same scenario.
#56 Gary
Well said. The qualities of hybrid-electric alone will not sell the VOLT unless gas prices are much higher. Quality, Performance, Price will be bigger buying factors if it were on sale today.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:27 am
@ Don C 81
Don C said:
“The Prius isn’t an EV — … the car is always in top gear so to speak — so it won’t behave like one.”
Every production EV that I’ve owned, seen in person or used has one gear, so they are always in top gear, typical for an EV. A Prius, which has a single planetary gear set relative to the electric motor, certainly does behave like an EV from an off the line start – maximum available electric drive torque instantly available from the start and no shifting, which is completely different from and superior to a pure ICE for off the line performance. If some reputed Toyo Prius engineer on the thread knows different, let him/her speak now or forever hold his/her peace.
Don C said:
“But I’ve seen plenty of young drivers move off the line briskly. Yesterday one had no trouble moving along with with a Corvette in the adjoining lane. The ICE probably kicked in off the line, but it was moving as fast as any of the other cars. As in all cases, it’s just how you drive it. No doubt the Corvette is faster, but the fact is that rarely does anyone drive a car at anything close to its maximum.
This illustrates another fact of life: Anything — a Vespa or a Prius or a Scion — driven by a 20 something will generally be faster than other vehicles off the line. Imagine that.”
Yes, yes, if a Corvette is not accelerating at its maximum capability, many things can keep up with it off the line. That does not change the reality that off the line, electric drive gives you its maximum available torque instantly from a dead stop, which an ICE cannot do, so electric drive will always beat ICE off the line from a dead stop for a least a little way.
Sorry, s’truth. I do it every day against every kind of pure gasser without even trying.
I really, really suggest that you purchase and use an EV regularly and learn how it works, DonC, so that your future remarks reflect that you understand how they operate.
p.s. You are confusing young age with aggressive vehicle starts. They aren’t always the same.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:28 am
Until GM broadcasts out what trims will be available, everyone will be making comparisons based on the more expensive price quote. There’s no big argument there. Why flame on someones comparison if you can not offer a comparible “Trim” to what is here and now? They’re only using what is/was quoted.
I still think the Volt bare bones model will outsell every trim level for the Volt. If they release 5000 bare bones model and 5000 higher trim models, the bare bones will sell out first.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:31 am
DonC makes a good point.
If you’re faster off the line than the Prius next to you, it’s because:
1. it let you
or
2. you have a high performance electric drive vehicle.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:32 am
#80, Randy,
#various, CDAVIS,
No, you can’t. And you can’t for at least another 18 months and then for an undetermined time after that while GM “introduces” the vehicle in various markets.
Your car that does not exist does not beat, in any way, shape or form, a car that does exist.
Someday… maybe.
—
#101, zipdrive, [in re an alphabet soup of advanced options on the top trim Prius] “I, for one, actually know how to drive, and I don’t need any of that crap.”
That’s why, on the Prius, they are OPTIONS. So, if you’d prefer to talk about the stripped Prius, the price is a mere $22K.
This is just about the median price for a new car; in other words, it is at a price point that will sell very, very well.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:35 am
@CorvetteGuy 107
“THEN when battery prices get cheaper they can produce a Chevy Cruze EREV for (hopefully) $495 or less per month on the same scenario. ”
Not going to happen my friend. GM will use the lower cost of the batts and keep the price of the car the same. This will allow them a greater profit margin, or more appropriately reduce the negative/loss margin, per vehicle. Consumers will not see a price drop and I’m going to say it…..EVER from the drop in price of the batts.
Just MHO
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:38 am
@charlie h 111
“That’s why, on the Prius, they are OPTIONS. So, if you’d prefer to talk about the stripped Prius, the price is a mere $22K.”
There are still options in the base model I don’t want OR need.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:38 am
Even Ford want’s to increase Gas Tax…..
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/22/bill-ford-calls-for-an-increased-gas-tax/
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:40 am
CaptJackSparrow 109 “I still think the Volt bare bones model will outsell every trim level for the Volt. If they release 5000 bare bones model and 5000 higher trim models, the bare bones will sell out first.”
____________________________
What you just said is, to recoup the development and production start-up costs faster GM should limit sales to the higher trim levels during the first production runs. We know that profits come from expensive options and later repairs and the electric drive with no trans and an engine that rarely turns on will need fewer repairs.
So you’ve made the case for GM to limit the bare bones model until enough are available for everyone, or sales slow down with the high trim level offering.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:49 am
@jeffhre 115
“to recoup the development and production start-up costs faster ”
No way dude!
After the chap whatever they will be going through there should be NO development costs to recover at all. It would be washed out in the chap whatever. I can understand the startup and prod costs but hell no on the development. Who are they trying to kid here if that is in fact a position they want to stand on and impose as a price point.
Sure the Volt may be $37,500.00 but I understand the cost for it to be produced. Theoretically if R&D costs need to be recouped and if it is washed out from the chap whatever then the price of the Volt should be again “Theoretically” less.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:50 am
@jeffhre 115
“So you’ve made the case for GM to limit the bare bones model until enough are available for everyone, or sales slow down with the high trim level offering.”
Just enough so I can get one.
=oD
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:52 am
CorvetteGuy “…they can produce a Chevy Cruze EREV for (hopefully) $495 or less per month on the same scenario.”
_________________________
Well, they’ve shown with the current Cruze bodied mules that they can make something very similar to that, at least in low volume! That could save several thousand from the cost of a Volt and with the new battery iterations could become a drive-train option like conventional hybrids.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:53 am
CDAVIS 106
You said:
” The Prius may trump the Volt if…you don’t mind driving a sluggish tin can sedan”
…the almost obsolete version of which can beat a Porshe from a dead stop off the line, thanks to electric drive, according to a 35 year veteran automotive journalist.
Check out the Stop Light Grand Prix reference:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/steve-parker/green-cars—just-another_b_188533.html
(the article’s point is that off the line, a hybrid is a performance muscle car, so the green label is a scam)
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April 22nd, 2009 at 11:56 am
#117
CaptJackSparrow
I have a feeling GM won’t want to cooperate while production is lower, and they’ll want to sell to people with more bucks for the bang.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 12:00 pm
The reason Toyota dropped prius level 1 price to 21,000 (seriously concernced about Honda stealing sales?):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWYhgGBelfo
65+ MPG! – 2010 Honda Insight
Note to GM: you better get something in this $20k/40+ mpg battle soon, before the next oil shock.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 12:04 pm
@ jeffhre 120
“I have a feeling GM won’t want to cooperate while production is lower, and they’ll want to sell to people with more bucks for the bang.”
That;’s expected. I’m pretty sure there will be a 10:1 ratio of less bare bones models, if any. If I have to wait for my stripped down ghetto bare bones model, I can wait. It will give me time to save $$$ longer due to furloughs.
)
GO VOLT!!!
The ICEAge is over, Embrace the VoltAge.
I’ll take my Volt with No Generator, No ICE, ShAkEn not StirreD…
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April 22nd, 2009 at 12:10 pm
@carcus1 121
Dude, they need to put a pre men-on-pausal, high blood pressure woman at the wheel……my wife. She drives only in two speeds…..Stop and “batouttahe||”. When we rented a Prius, she only got 36MPG. And she complained about the gutlessnes of the car from off the line. I believe they improved it in the 2010 Prius. I will get my test drive of the Insight tonight.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 12:21 pm
#123 CaptJack,
Sounds like you’re going to have to sneak in and hardwire the eco mode swich on for your lead footed bride (or get her some yoga classes) .
I test drove an 08 prius. It was ok, but like many others, I thought the driving experience lacked some (road response, handling, etc . . . )
Be sure and give us some test drive feedback on the insight vs prius.
P.S. It’s amazing how much variance there is on mpg in hybrids (and higher mpg cars in general) depending on driving habits. (over 30 mpg difference on the motor trend video!)
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April 22nd, 2009 at 12:27 pm
Sounds cheaper than a VOLT?
But these 2 cars are in different classes and only one is going to be available soon, the other not til late 2010. Got to love the choices and there’s more choices coming….
GO EV!
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April 22nd, 2009 at 12:30 pm
New thread! Go getem boys…..and girls.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 12:36 pm
@ CaptJackSparrow 123
As always, how you drive is way, way more important than what you drive.
It’s possible, though an unpleasant chore, to drive a Prius all the way down to 19 mpg average per tank, so I’d consider your wife fairly meek with it. Flooring it and slamming on the brakes all the time will get you better mileage than some other behaviors.
I recommend sending your wife to a professional driving school that uses electric vehicles to pick up some “skillz”. Used with driving skill, electric drive (and regenerative braking) excels at at least two things, dead stop off the line and low speed acceleration (up to about 30 mph), and slippery road conditions starting and stopping. Used without driving skills, meh.
I’ve found that to feather a Prius accelerator pedal well to be able to competently command/control all driving modes, for example, takes about three months of constant practice and attention, so that skill (and others) is unlikely to emerge from a short rental where some other vehicle driving style is applied. Electric drive characteristics are just that much different, though you can certainly emulate weak full gasser performance with a hybrid.
Frankly, that some journalists were able to discern the muscle feel of the Volt mules from 0-30 mph on a very first, short drive tells me that they are skilled drivers.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 12:38 pm
By the way, the electric vehicle to which my blog name refers is not necessarily a Prius. Let’s just say I’ve had a bunch of user experience with electric vehicles of many sorts.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 12:49 pm
#95 Jim I
Tom H # 92:
I have to disagree with your conclusion. Firt of all you are using 105 mpg vs 50 as the comparison.
With a PHEV, you have to consider milers per CHARGE.
The design of the Volt is that if you drive under 40 miles per day, you will use NO gasoline. For me, that is the case for 6 out of seven days per week. I expect my total gasoline consumption to be under 50 gallons PER YEAR!
But that is not really the main reason for my interest in the Volt. It is to reduce CO2, stop sending my money to people that want to kill me, and to be on the leading edge of a new type of transportation. And it will go nowhere unless we send a strong signal that we are ready to buy the E-REV design of the Gen-1 Volt. If that costs me a few dollars more, then I consider it money well spent!
JMHO
————————————————————————-
Jim, thanks for responding to my post. I was hoping to get some critiques of the logic I used.
But I do not see either of your points as refuting my conclusion. 105 mpg as an overall average for the Volt is a figure previously posted on this site based on a detailed analysis of American driving habits. You may be more of a stay at home guy, but the data shows most people have numerous days per year where they drive well over 40 miles.
If you do a sensitivity analysis where the Volt gets 150 mpg (pretty optimistic), you still need gas to cost $8.78 per gallon to justify the higher cost.
It doesn’t surprise me that many posters on this site are committed enough to replacing Arab oil that they are willing to pay more for a car. You cannot extrapolate the attitude of this self-selected community to the public at large. Only a small group of true believers will make a financial sacrifice to own a 105 mpg car. Just look at the percentage of homes running on solar power (way under 1%) and you will see what I mean.
I would love for the PHEV concept to become pervasive. It would be a big win for everybody but the shieks. I am simply pointing out that a big cost breakthrough would be required to make it happen.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 1:36 pm
______________________________________________________
#119 Electric Vehicle Owner
——-
Response:
0-60mph Times
Prius: 10.4sec
Volt: 8.5sec
Volt is 25% quicker off the line. That makes the Prius “sluggish” when compared to the “delightfully responsive” Volt.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 1:54 pm
CDAVIS @131
I think the 2010 Prius 0-60 MPH is less than 10 seconds, and I think the 8.5 second time was a design goal. I do not recall an independent evaluator posting the actual 0-60 time for the production prototype vehicles. I have no doubt the Volt will be “25% quicker off the line” in EV mode, but I expect the Plug-in Prius to provide “similar” acceleration, i.e. within 10%, once we know the actual numbers.
It is possible that by January 2010 we will have actual numbers for both vehicles. Time will tell
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April 22nd, 2009 at 1:55 pm
#113, CaptJackSparrow, “There are still options in the base model I don’t want OR need.”
Then I guess you’ll just have to suck it up and accept a few extra features you don’t need for $21K or pony up an extra $15K for a Volt with we-know-not-what on it.
Toyota has sold a million of these, as of last summer. I doubt they’re worried too much about whether or not their base car also includes features that CaptJackSparrow doesn’t want.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
@ CDAVIS and Van and CaptJackSparrow’s wife, etc.
How many times do I have to say 0-30 mph (or lower top speed)?
It’s about the very beginning of the start, so that you can cut in front of someone (US style driving). This is known as the Stop Light Grand Prix (involves a quick start and handling).
Good luck doing 60 mph in gridlock traffic in urban block by block with stop lights and signs settings.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 2:00 pm
#26 Bill Marsh Says:
What exactly would be the point in having plug in capability in a car that travels 6 miles on batteries?
————————————————————————————-
To make us still burn gas on most of our trips
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April 22nd, 2009 at 3:27 pm
______________________________________________________
Year 2000 Prius Flash Back:
A few weeks ago I came across a 2000 Wired Magazine edition while cleaning out my file cabinet. I thumbed through the magazine fascinated by the various articles and advertisements written at the time. Many things have changed over the last 9 years. A laptop that was advertised back then for $7,000 could today be purchased for 1/5 the cost and 5X+ the performance/capacity; a 25X price/performance improvement. Such is the progress of technology. On the other hand, some things have remained the same. I came across a full page Prius ad advertising the 2001 Prius launch. The Prius ad proudly declared that the Prius ~“provides the fuel economy benefits of an electric hybrid vehicle with the convenience of not plugging into an outlet to charge the batteries”.
This means that Toyota has 9 years of time/capital invested in pitching its inability to take an overnight grid plug-in charge as a consumer benefit. It may take time for Toyota to fully reverse its long standing anti-plug-in marketing stance.
Millions of consumers today are hungry for a car that allows them to drive to the grocery store without having to burn gas. The Volt allows you to do that. Very cool!
______________________________________________________
Electric Cars + Nuclear Energy = American Energy Independence!
______________________________________________________
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April 22nd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
#130, CDAVIS, [0-60 times, 10.4 sec for the current Prius and 8.5 sec for the maybe, someday, future "delightfully responsive" Volt]
It’s all relative. When I was a kid, a 10 sec 0-60 time was considered very noteworthy.
For those of us who have owned and loved 114hp Volvo 240 wagons, a 10.4 sec 0-60 time is also described as “delightfully responsive”. For those who have owned and tolerated 68hp ‘82 Cavaliers, a 10.4 sec 0-60 time is described as “amazingly quick.” For those of us who owned and loathed the two-ton 109hp 1993 VW EuroVans, a 10.4 sec 0-60 time is described as “Warp Factor 9!”
—
#134, Malamute Wolf, #26, Bill Marsh on 6 miles on batteries…
That’s my commute. Round trip. So it works for me.
In fact, this is one of the problems with Volt marketing. If you have a routine daily drive of significantly less than 40 miles, there’s an economic incentive to buy a vehicle with less AER, so as to fully utilize the expensive component. It’s possible for a much less expensive vehicle to steal market share from the Volt simply by offering less for less.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 3:37 pm
@44 GXT
You were making a pretty good case until this post, now I think you’re just reaching.
Lame.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 3:48 pm
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#136 charlie h Said:
[#130, CDAVIS, [0-60 times, 10.4 sec for the current Prius and 8.5 sec for the maybe, someday, future "delightfully responsive" Volt]
It’s all relative. When I was a kid, a 10 sec 0-60 time was considered very noteworthy.]
—–
Response:
I agree with you that the Prius will appeal to those that can remember back-in-the-old-days when a 10 sec 0-60 time was considered very noteworthy. Today’s young crowd will gravitate towards the quicker Volt.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 3:50 pm
#135, CDAVIS, “This means that Toyota has 9 years of time/capital invested in pitching its inability to take an overnight grid plug-in charge as a consumer benefit. It may take time for Toyota to fully reverse its long standing anti-plug-in marketing stance.”
Who says Toyota is against plug-ins? Toyota is against uneconomical cars that won’t sell. Toyota’s PHEV is very likely to beat the Volt to the street. That’s hardly an “anti-plug-in marketing stance.”
One of the most successful EVs currently on the road TODAY, is the Rav4-EV. Toyota, somehow, neglected to recall and crush their EVs, like GM did. Go to EVNUT.COM and take a look at the owner’s gallery. About half of those owners also operate a solar panel to feed the grid.
Oh, and PS: Toyota sold over a million Priuses. GM… not so much. So, if we ask ourselves, “Who is really in touch with the realities of producing and marketing a vehicle with a gas-electric drivetrain?” I’m thinking the answer probably isn’t, “GM.”
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April 22nd, 2009 at 3:53 pm
#138, CDAVIS, “The younger hip crowd will gravitate towards the quicker Volt.”
IF it’s quicker than the 2010 Prius. The 2010 Prius has about 40% more total power on tap than the 2009.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 4:01 pm
How often does anyone really use a sub 10 sec 0 to 60mpg?
Answer: if you care about fuel economy (or battery life) pretty much never.
Seems like if the the reporting standard was a 30 mph to 70 mph (merging onto the freeway or 50 mph to 80 mph (passing on the freeway) the information would be more useful.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 4:15 pm
______________________________________________________
#140 charlie Said:
#138, CDAVIS, “The younger hip crowd will gravitate towards the quicker Volt.”
IF it’s quicker than the 2010 Prius. The 2010 Prius has about 40% more total power on tap than the 2009.
____
Response:
Perhaps the Prius will be able to keep up with the Volt off the line. Time will tell. This is all good. A Prius vs. Volt debate is evidence that the Electric Car Revolution is shaping up to be competitive and quick moving.
______________________________________________________
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April 22nd, 2009 at 4:38 pm
Tom H #129:
I think that if you read the original specs from GM concerning the Volt, they used data that says about 80% of the people drive less than 40 miles per day, and that was the design spec of the Volt. I happen to drive about 30 miles per day for six of the seven days per week so the AER range will be perfect for me. So technically, for those days, I will be getting an infinite MPG. On the one day of the week that I am on the road, I drive about 95 miles, of which 40 would be powered by a fully charged battery pack, and then the ICE would kick in for the other 55 miles. If the spec of 50 mpg while in charge sustaining mode is accurate, I will burn about 1 gallon of gas per week, but I will be driving 275 miles. So does that mean I get 275 mpg? That has been an ongoing discussion since I joined here over two years ago, and it was never really resolved. We think there should be two numbers, one for AER and one for the ICE, but the government seems to want a single number.
But where the Volt will really shine is when (not if) gas prices rise again. Because it will not make that much of a difference to those that fit the 40 mile AER daily range. Lets use me as an example:
Parallel Hybrid @ 50 mpg & 275 miles per week:
in 10 years, the total fuel consumed would be 2860 gallons.
At $2.00/gal that is $5,720 At $4.00/gal that is $11,440
That is a fairly significant difference in cost.
==================
Serial Hybrid – 40 miles AER and E-REV @ 50 mpg & 275 miles per week:
If we assume it will cost $1.00 per day to charge the battery pack and 1 gallon of gas per week:
In ten years, you will recharge 3652 times and burn 520 gallons of fuel.
At $2.00 per gallon that is $3,652 for electric and $1,040 for fuel, or a total of $4,692. That is $1,028 less than a Parallel type hybrid.
At $4.00 per gallon, that is $3,652 for electric and $2,080 for fuel, or a total of $5732. That is $5,708 less than a Parallel type hybrid.
That is a fairly significant savings!
Since I usually buy fairly loaded vehicles, lets say a Prius would cost $29K and the Volt $39K (an assumption, but until we actually see a price list, I think it is in the ballpark). So over ten years, the total cost of ownership premium I am paying for the Volt is between $4K and $9K over a Prius based on the variance in the price of fuel. If there is a tax rebate and I can get one with the Volt, then the premium changes significantly. At $2.00/gal, the premium would be about $1.5K. At $4.00/gal the Volt costs about $3.2K less than the Prius.
As you can see, the numbers can be worked a lot of different ways……
And lets not forget that I just don’t like the style of a Prius. It is a totally personal decision, and I am willing to pay for what I want, just as john1701a is buying what he wants. That just makes us different, not right or wrong!
If your driving requirements are over the AER range daily, and you can not charge at work, then maybe the Volt is not the car for you. This vehicle is not really for everyone. You have to buy what is right for you.
Sorry this got so long….
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April 22nd, 2009 at 5:50 pm
#44 GXT Says, “… But with a Volt I would have to plug in my car at least 365 times per year. I also have to unplug it 365 times. That is not a great trade-off to save 8 trips to the gas station/year.”
This is why I am hoping for an option of a “docking station” that I could drive onto, and it would connect power in my garage to bus bars under my Volt. No messing around plugging in cords would be necessary, except when charging away from home.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 5:51 pm
Jim I, you forgot that the Prius scenario should include investing the $10K difference in cash price until you actually need it to buy gas. This makes a surprising difference.
Check around the forum… someone set up a pretty good spreadsheet that you can download and tinker with to change scenarios easily.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 5:56 pm
“If your driving requirements are over the AER range daily, and you can not charge at work, then maybe the Volt is not the car for you.”
Or maybe it is:
Just charge when you are around an outlet, whenever/wherever you want. The thing has hundreds of miles of range and can be gas refueled like any other gasser. Use it like your old vehicle and bonk the plug in at your complete whim. Pluggin in overnight at home when you’re asleep is kind of a no-brainer. You know, like you already do with your cell phone?
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April 22nd, 2009 at 6:01 pm
#26 Bill Marsh Says, “What exactly would be the point in having plug in capability in a car that travels 6 miles on batteries?”
To make any number of common short trips (to the store, to pick up the kids, to church, to my work, etc.) without burning any gasoline.
I’d prefer 1,000 miles AER, but I think the economics of batteries makes the 40 mile AER of the Volt a good compromise. However, even 6 miles AER would be better than what I can get now (i.e., zero).
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April 22nd, 2009 at 6:48 pm
What exactly would be the point in having plug in capability in a car that travels 6 miles on batteries?
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The point is to BOOST the overall MPG, not to travel exclusively using the batteries… though, you could.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 6:52 pm
GM, please make a sunroof an option on the Volt. Would love a 2 door Volt with a sunroof, but will settle for a sedan.
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April 22nd, 2009 at 8:06 pm
The Hymotion A123 pack does not void the installation on the Prius.. in any case, Toyota should offer this option.. they are already offering $10k worth of crap options
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:31 pm
charlie h # 145:
Good Idea – If you had invested that $10K last July into mutual funds, just think what you would have now!
Answer – about $6K
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April 22nd, 2009 at 10:58 pm
Jim I,
And since January, I’ve invested and gotten some decent gains.
The opportunity cost of the money is important in a financial analysis. Someone with credit card debt to erase could put $10K towards that and get a ve-ry impressive return on investment with no risk. Avoiding $10K on an 8% loan is something to work out in your financial analysis.
Savings accounts are 3% or so and there’s a reasonable number of stocks that should still be good for 5% or so in dividends plus capital appreciation, if you’re lucky.
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April 23rd, 2009 at 7:06 am
I meant to say WARRANTY:
“The Hymotion A123 pack does not void the installation on the Prius”
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April 26th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
I like the look of the Volt better than the Prius. However, Toyota has a track record with the Prius and I trust it will hold up better than a Chevy. If GM had not abandoned the EV1, I would probably have a different opinion.
Also, the Prius is available with Dynamic Cruise Control and Lane Keep Assist which would be extremely useful features. If GM includes these features as options then decision will be harder.
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