Comments on: Study Calls Environmental Benefits of Electric Cars ‘Fiction’ http://gm-volt.com/2009/04/19/study-calls-environmental-benefits-of-electric-cars-fiction/ Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt. Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:17:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Electric Vehicle Solution - Forums http://gm-volt.com/2009/04/19/study-calls-environmental-benefits-of-electric-cars-fiction/#comment-155898 Electric Vehicle Solution - Forums Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:22:34 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1627#comment-155898 [...] a conventional, inefficient (20mpg) car. I just came across this study verifying my contention: GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site Blog Archive Study Calls Environmental Benefits of Electric C... "The study was performed by the group Transport Watch and found that diesel cars produce half [...] [...] a conventional, inefficient (20mpg) car. I just came across this study verifying my contention: GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site Blog Archive Study Calls Environmental Benefits of Electric C… "The study was performed by the group Transport Watch and found that diesel cars produce half [...]

]]> By: Ken Grubb http://gm-volt.com/2009/04/19/study-calls-environmental-benefits-of-electric-cars-fiction/#comment-110147 Ken Grubb Wed, 29 Apr 2009 16:44:14 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1627#comment-110147 EPRI has studied the issue. Plugins won't bring down the grid and will improve air quality. http://www.epri-reports.org Should cleaner sources of electricity be pursued? Absolutely. More renewables is good. More nuclear power, IMHO, is essential for the near term--say the next 40-60 years. Retire the oldest, dirtiest plants and bring online newer cleaner plants. As for vehicles, EVs are a no-brainer. They are technologically far simpler than ICEs, HEVs, PHEVs, hydrogen powered unicorns, diesels, or diesel hybrid unicorns. EVs have fewer moving parts so fewer things to wear out. Since EVs will last longer, I suspect car makers will have to evolve. Eventually, fewer cars will be produced in any given year, and car makers will be able to improve things by offering existing owners upgrades. Better chargers, better batteries, etc. The issues of powerplants and vehicles are intertwined, to be sure, but pursuit of something better doesn't mean we have to wait for a panacea. EPRI has studied the issue. Plugins won’t bring down the grid and will improve air quality.

http://www.epri-reports.org

Should cleaner sources of electricity be pursued? Absolutely. More renewables is good. More nuclear power, IMHO, is essential for the near term–say the next 40-60 years. Retire the oldest, dirtiest plants and bring online newer cleaner plants.

As for vehicles, EVs are a no-brainer. They are technologically far simpler than ICEs, HEVs, PHEVs, hydrogen powered unicorns, diesels, or diesel hybrid unicorns. EVs have fewer moving parts so fewer things to wear out.

Since EVs will last longer, I suspect car makers will have to evolve. Eventually, fewer cars will be produced in any given year, and car makers will be able to improve things by offering existing owners upgrades. Better chargers, better batteries, etc.

The issues of powerplants and vehicles are intertwined, to be sure, but pursuit of something better doesn’t mean we have to wait for a panacea.

]]> By: jdsv http://gm-volt.com/2009/04/19/study-calls-environmental-benefits-of-electric-cars-fiction/#comment-109316 jdsv Sun, 26 Apr 2009 04:53:43 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1627#comment-109316 Yes, transmission and distribution are currently greater than 90% efficient, somewhere between 7 and 8%. I provided the links to stop the layman approximations and to be used as tools supporting the EV side of the argument. The data is _all_ there, no more need for approximations. One more thing that needs to happen : federally mandate to allow for electricity sellback. Could there be flaws in that? Sure, but they wouldn't outweigh the positive gains. Recap : this was not an attack, so no need to try and argue against information that can serve to help our case. Good? Good! NPNS.. =D- Yes, transmission and distribution are currently greater than 90% efficient, somewhere between 7 and 8%. I provided the links to stop the layman approximations and to be used as tools supporting the EV side of the argument. The data is _all_ there, no more need for approximations.

One more thing that needs to happen : federally mandate to allow for electricity sellback. Could there be flaws in that? Sure, but they wouldn’t outweigh the positive gains.

Recap : this was not an attack, so no need to try and argue against information that can serve to help our case. Good? Good!

NPNS.. =D-

]]> By: Steve G http://gm-volt.com/2009/04/19/study-calls-environmental-benefits-of-electric-cars-fiction/#comment-109171 Steve G Fri, 24 Apr 2009 18:21:07 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1627#comment-109171 @127 10 quadrillion BTU loss per year. Uhm. Big deal. The US grid capacity is somewhere around 3 Terawatt. That means your grid efficiency is still above 90% (i think, if i did my math right, and my general assumptions on usage are correct) Also: In ontario, there is actually excess power supply being dumped out from our nuclear plants at night these days. At one point the ontario spot price for electricity was negative for 19 hours of the day. Free power for New York i guess? Charging at night would produce absolutely 0g/km of CO2. Eat that. ... I want my volt now. Please? Also: We don't need to focus on making a more efficient ICE, but on making a more fuel efficient car. THey aren't the same thing. A diesel smart car and an F-250 have similarly efficiency ICE's. We need to make light aerodynamic vehicles. @127

10 quadrillion BTU loss per year. Uhm. Big deal. The US grid capacity is somewhere around 3 Terawatt. That means your grid efficiency is still above 90% (i think, if i did my math right, and my general assumptions on usage are correct)

Also: In ontario, there is actually excess power supply being dumped out from our nuclear plants at night these days. At one point the ontario spot price for electricity was negative for 19 hours of the day. Free power for New York i guess? Charging at night would produce absolutely 0g/km of CO2. Eat that. … I want my volt now. Please?

Also: We don’t need to focus on making a more efficient ICE, but on making a more fuel efficient car. THey aren’t the same thing. A diesel smart car and an F-250 have similarly efficiency ICE’s. We need to make light aerodynamic vehicles.

]]> By: Herman http://gm-volt.com/2009/04/19/study-calls-environmental-benefits-of-electric-cars-fiction/#comment-109046 Herman Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:32:56 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1627#comment-109046 Where is the study: " How much C02 would it take to generate 1 liter of diesel or 1 litere of gasoline??? Before it's in your gastank??" I never see those studies arround.. for fuck sake!! We have a gasplant generator that has efficiency of 55%. And here in holland we only make 30% of our total electricity out of coal. And i have never seen a diesel car with efficiency of 45%. I DO know that there is higher energy per litres in a liter diesel. I know diesels with high efficiency, but they are not inside a car. They have a fixed RPM all set to 1 RPM for max efficiency. And also timing and air/fuel mixture optimized and turbo optimized. Mostly used for generating electricity. Where is the study: ” How much C02 would it take to generate 1 liter of diesel or 1 litere of gasoline??? Before it’s in your gastank??”

I never see those studies arround.. for fuck sake!!

We have a gasplant generator that has efficiency of 55%.
And here in holland we only make 30% of our total electricity out of coal.

And i have never seen a diesel car with efficiency of 45%. I DO know that there is higher energy per litres in a liter diesel.

I know diesels with high efficiency, but they are not inside a car. They have a fixed RPM all set to 1 RPM for max efficiency. And also timing and air/fuel mixture optimized and turbo optimized.
Mostly used for generating electricity.

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