Apr 16

Plug Standard Needed For Electric Car-Charging Cord Interface: SAE J1772

 

A little discussed area that has a lot of importance is how electric cars will interface with the grid.

Yes we are aware the driver will attach an electric cord from the wallbox to the car, but at issue is exactly how that cord will fit into the car.

The specification that is gaining steam is called SAE J1772 and it refers to the coupler shown above.

People will charge their cars either with 110 or 220 V electric lines, and some cars in the future may even accept higher voltages. Current will also vary from 8 amps in the case of the Volt at 110 V to up to as high as 70 amps or greater. There will also be public charging stations to deal with. Since the far end of the cord will thus have many different plugs it is important to keep end that goes into the car the same.

GM notes at next week’s meeting of the Society of Automotive Eng inners, there is actually a Task Force that will convene to continue its work in trying to make SAE J1772 the industry standard.

GM Engineer Greg Kissel writes “You’re already aware we’re working to make the Volt as efficient as possible, but we’re also helping lead the standardization of this plug and how you interact with it as well as the electrical grid.” He notes that once this standard is adopted it will be required in all electric cars regardless of brand or maker.

Source (GM)

This entry was posted on Thursday, April 16th, 2009 at 11:36 am and is filed under Charging. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 104


  1. 1
    joe obrien

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (11:49 am)

    Good to make things less confusing for the masses. It’ll also make replacement and accessory parts cheaper.


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    jeffhre

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (11:52 am)

    If everyone goes to SAE, then will makers have the choice of proprietary on the car with a short SAE compatible cord or will all makers be all SAE all the time. Older news but related ( http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/shai_agassi_on_electric_cars.html )


  3. 3
    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:03 pm)

    3!!!!

    They need to focus on protecting the contacts/plug from the elements so those who park outside like me because my trailer park has no garage won’t fry the car or have a human BBQ.


  4. 4
    charlie h

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:04 pm)

    Now, people are going to be freaked out over whether or not they can plug it into a regular wall socket.

    Memo to GM: This SAE standard is all well and good but if you can’t plug the Volt into a regular wall socket, too, that’s not going to be real good for business. Sometimes, less is more. As in, less talk about the Volt might be more productive for GM and better PR for the Volt.


  5. 5
    Twitterific

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:15 pm)

    Let the folks at Monster design the cable. These guys know what they are doing. All other cables pale in comparison. Let Monster handle it and be done with it. All this design by committee creates nothing but watered down garbage. Too much politics involved in standards groups, they never have the interest of the end-user in mind, just how to fatten their corporate wallets.


  6. 6
    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:16 pm)

    That connector above better have a standard NEMA20A on the other side to charge the car.
    There is an “onboard charger” on the Volt right? You should be able to plug right into a 110VAC NEMA20A houshold outlet? From the look of that adapter you’ll need another adapter to couple the connectors.

    Can of worms……OPEN!


  7. 7
    statik

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:21 pm)

    I thought all the major auto companies had already gotten together years ago and decided they would use this plug? Maybe this is just making it ‘officially’ offical? I’ve never heard of anyone planning on using anything but.
    ——————
    I would say they already decided on this standard plug over a decade ago (although I don’t believe it was level 2 then (240V)…but I could be wrong):

    SAE Committee Selects Conductive Technology for Use As a Universal Electric Vehicle Charging Standard

    WARRENDALE, Pa., May 27 — After 18 months of extensive
    deliberations and testing, the Society of Automotive Engineers Electric Vehicle Charging Systems Committee has voted to adopt a charge coupler design based on butt type contact technology for incorporation into the SAE J1772 Recommended Practice for EV Conductive Charge Coupler.

    The decision marks a significant milestone in the effort to establish a single EV charging standard and sets the stage for a marketplace competition…

    “The vigorous competition resulted in improvements in both designs under consideration,” said Craig Toepfer, chairman of the SAE Electric Vehicle Charging Systems Committee. “The committee members carefully weighed the test results, evaluated the compliance of each design with the performance and functional requirements specified in J1772 — including human factors and the perception of safety — and chose the design they felt represented the best technology for the application.”

    http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19980527/press012917.html


  8. 8
    Dave B

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:22 pm)

    Capt Jack @ 6 strikes again…can you plug that thing into a regular 110V wall outlet? ANYONE???


  9. 9
    Steve

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:24 pm)

    They should just use the standard 3 prong plug that your toaster has. Everyone is familiar with that.


  10. 10
    Charging Station standards - Page 10 - Tesla Motors Club Forum

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:26 pm)

    [...] but I thought it was worth posting that, "GM notes at next week


  11. 11
    RandyB

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:27 pm)

    I f I remember correctly about the voltage/current relationship, the advantage of a 220-240V/8A draw over a 110-120V/8A draw is that there is a constant flow of electrons (albeit in different directions) with 220V (both halves of the sine wave/two hot legs/push and pull) as opposed to only having current flow half the cycle (hz) with 110V. My point is that if the wiring can only handle 8A, the 220V option should take close to half the time (in theory atleast). Are 220-240V GFI circuits going to be required? Are they available/common? I could be way off–it’s been 35 years since I took that correspondence course.


  12. 12
    statik

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:28 pm)

    #7 Statik (me)

    Sorry I meant to put the whole date on that article I linked…it was from May 27th, 1998…about 11 years old


  13. 13
    SteveF

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:31 pm)

    Any special plug should only be optional. Provide the new auto charging standard plug only if it for supporting higher AMPs and intelligent communication to the elec grid. Then, provide the support for standard 110V plug that will fit anywhere at home or on the road, even if less effective or not as safe (it still is grounded so should be as safe as other home fixtures).


  14. 14
    stopcrazypp

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:38 pm)

    Worst comes to worst, you will have to use an adapter for 110v/220v charging. The standard J1772 will be useful for faster charging systems outside the home, since those will require a external charger.

    If the standard gets adopted, you will see a J1772 socket on the car and you will probably be provided an adapter to plug into your standard 110v sockets (or the car will have a separate socket for that, but that’s less likely). The advantage of a standard socket on the car is that once things get going it’ll be easy to find adapters for all kinds of sockets since all the plug-ins will use the same socket on the car end.


  15. 15
    Jim I

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:42 pm)

    I think you are missing the point here. This plug and socket is for the car end. The other end will be a regular wall plug for 120V.

    It makes all the cars have the same plug in adapter. So if charging stations do become a reality, there is no problem in plugging in any car.

    I think the reason they are not making a reguar cord adapter on the car is that they do not want you plugging in a #18 lamp extension cord and having it melt, or you getting a real shock if you are standing in a puddle when you plug it in!

    RandyB #11: GFCI breakers for 240V are readily available. They are a bit expensive however. I have one on my pool filter circuit.


  16. 16
    Matt

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:42 pm)

    In reply to #6 & #9:

    My guess is by the number of prongs on the J1772 plug (1 ground, 1 neutral and two hots) they want one cable to rule them all (pun intended) that they provide with the car to handle dual voltage. Then you have adapters for 220V plugs (there are many styles in Europe and the US) and an adapter for the standard 110V 3-prong plug. Frankly, I’ll be running a 220v circuit to my garage since I’d rather take advantage of faster charge times.


  17. 17
    George K

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:44 pm)

    #4 charlie h
    “but if you can’t plug the Volt into a regular wall socket, too, that’s not going to be real good for business”

    In several of the pics I’ve seen, of the Volt charging, I have seen a handle like high tech looking device which has a light on indicating it is still charging.

    http://www.hybridcars.com/gallery/22082/photo

    If I charge at home and at work, or a downtown charging station, or a friends house, etc., I don’t want to have to carry the special charging extension cord with me (in order to tell if it is still charging), or for any reason for that matter.

    The other thing is, the first thing people are going to do when they go to buy a Volt, is to buy an extension cord. I, myself, have one that is 25′ and one that is 50′ , both 12 gauge, for another location.

    I am against this type of device (picture), as it gets away from standardization. The light indicator should be on the car itself, not a unique extension cord!!!!

    Hymotion has a very simple setup for charging a Prius. A spring loaded rubber stopper , hinges on the top. It’s a bit cheap, but it allows for a standard extension cord.

    =D~~~~


  18. 18
    statik

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:45 pm)

    #11 RandyB said:

    I f I remember correctly about the voltage/current relationship, the advantage of a 220-240V/8A draw over a 110-120V/8A draw is that there is a constant flow of electrons (albeit in different directions) with 220V (both halves of the sine wave/two hot legs/push and pull) as opposed to only having current flow half the cycle (hz) with 110V. My point is that if the wiring can only handle 8A, the 220V option should take close to half the time (in theory atleast). Are 220-240V GFI circuits going to be required? Are they available/common? I could be way off–it’s been 35 years since I took that correspondence course.
    ==============================

    I don’t know if they are required, but according the the test package from Hymotion PHEV Prius it says you have to have a GFCI…so I think it is likely it will be required sometime (if not now).

    I do know, that if you have your plug in the garage, (which seems likely, lol) it is required in many places (but not all)….along with a weatherproof receptacle. Going to cost you $100-$150 bucks, used to be a tricky purchase, but Home Depot has carried them for several years now.

    Going to need 2-pole device config, 2-pole devices connect to the 2 Line conductors on 240V branch circuits, or the 2 Line and the 1 grounded Neutral conductors on 120V/240V multiwire branch circuits.


  19. 19
    DonC

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:48 pm)

    The plug is actually very important but contrary to the suggestion above it has been discussed a number of times. The bottom line is that standards are good, especially when, among other things, they prevent you from being electrocuted. (People arguing they just want a standard plug should be able to get one — quick exit from the gene pool and so forth! LOL). The third connection is for two communication with the grid (not available) or a charging station.

    Nice find by statik. Yeah, standards take a long time to develop.


  20. 20
    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:50 pm)

    OK, I see 4 contact points on this thing. The Volt batteries are DC. Correct me if I am wrong but if the volt has an onboard charger it will convert the 110VAC to ~400VDC (plus/minus10VDC), right? That’s the natural design on charging a battery. So from the socket you see above it SHOULD be sending AC power into the car, which will go through a step up to 400V then rectified to DC and filtered for a clean DC CC/CV (Constant Current/Constant Voltage).
    What is the other connectors for? Most AC lines have the Hot and return and ground.


  21. 21
    Jon

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:51 pm)

    This is something that I have been thinking about for a while and wondering why no one is talking about it. The Tesla Motors Model S will accept a 45 minute quick charge from a 480V high power charging station. Just like gas pumps are standardized charging stations need to be too.

    I think it should be some kind of smart cord with contacts for computer communication in it. Before you plug it in there is zero voltage at the charging contacts so it is safe to touch (the powered contacts should still be shielded from being touched by the user). When you plug it in, the computer in the station speaks with the computer on the car to make sure a safe connection is made. It then communicates with the car to determine what voltages and current the car will accept. Then it displays options to the user for them to choose how much charge they want, quick charge or regular charge, ect. The user chooses and the charge begins.

    If disconnected the charge will not continue until reconnected to the same car, otherwise it is canceled. This would be important for public charging stations where you can charge your car at work. If you swipe your credit card to start charging you dont want someone else to come disconnect your car and plug into their own to steal your charge.

    Plug your Tesla in and the screen shows you Slow(110V) Medium(220V) and High(480V) options with estimated time to full charge for each. Plug in your Volt and it gives you Slow(100V) and High(220V) options.

    Also, there is nothing to say the volt cant have this smart plug as well as a regular wall outlet for home convenience.


  22. 22
    statik

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:53 pm)

    #4 Charlie H said:

    Now, people are going to be freaked out over whether or not they can plug it into a regular wall socket.

    Memo to GM: This SAE standard is all well and good but if you can’t plug the Volt into a regular wall socket, too, that’s not going to be real good for business. Sometimes, less is more. As in, less talk about the Volt might be more productive for GM and better PR for the Volt.
    ===============================

    It is configured for a standard household outlet:
    (here is a picture to enjoy)

    http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/12/new_ev_plug.jpg


  23. 23
    DonC

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:57 pm)

    #20 CaptJackSparrow

    As noted in #19, it’s the communication line.


  24. 24
    Jeremy

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:58 pm)

    yep. I’ve been wondering when this would come up. There needs to be a standard across all plug-ins regardless of make model and manufacturer. It simplifies things for the customer and eliminates confusion.


  25. 25
    Kyle

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (12:59 pm)

    Dave @ 8 can you plug that thing into a regular 110V wall outlet? ANYONE???

    Steve @ 9 They should just use the standard 3 prong plug that your toaster has. Everyone is familiar with that.

    —————————————-
    I believe what is at issue here is the end of the cord that will attach to the car. The other end of the cord will be standard 3 prong plug for 110v or other appropriate connector for higher voltages.


  26. 26
    statik

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:01 pm)

    #20 CaptJackSparrow said:
    OK, I see 4 contact points on this thing. The Volt batteries are DC. Correct me if I am wrong but if the volt has an onboard charger it will convert the 110VAC to ~400VDC (plus/minus10VDC), right? That’s the natural design on charging a battery. So from the socket you see above it SHOULD be sending AC power into the car, which will go through a step up to 400V then rectified to DC and filtered for a clean DC CC/CV (Constant Current/Constant Voltage).
    What is the other connectors for? Most AC lines have the Hot and return and ground.
    =================
    #23 DonC said:

    As noted in #19, it’s the communication line.
    =================

    I love this thread, lol. Well, people did say they wanted more technical threads and less financial, hehe.

    The onboard charger will certainly do the conversion. But the J1772 is a five pin contact point plug. Two power, two signal, one ground, for single-phase supply up to 80A.


  27. 27
    statik

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:16 pm)

    Stroll down memory lane of EV plugs?

    http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/evplugs.html

    This could have been why all the big players want the same plug in their production version vehicles going forward, lol. Its one thing to have a crazy plug for a concept or a few prototypes….but we don’t need 2 dozen different, car specific extension cords…for a lot of reasons.
    (the SAE J1772 proposed “standard is shown last)


  28. 28
    Matt

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:17 pm)

    In reply to #26:

    Mine was just a guess but you’re correct. The picture on this article doesn’t show the 5th pin. This website seems to confirm:

    http://teva2.com/J1772.html


  29. 29
    statik

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:21 pm)

    #28 Matt said:

    In reply to #26:
    Mine was just a guess but you’re correct. The picture on this article doesn’t show the 5th pin. This website seems to confirm:

    http://teva2.com/J1772.html
    =======================
    Yeah it is a nice artsy picture, but a little deceptive, lol


  30. 30
    Silvio

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:23 pm)

    #17:
    “If I charge at home and at work, or a downtown charging station, or a friends house, etc., I don’t want to have to carry the special charging extension cord with me (in order to tell if it is still charging), or for any reason for that matter.”

    But when you travel with your laptop, you certainly make sure you take with you both the charger and the charger cord (for my dell, that cord can be detached so I have the option to leave it home). So why wouldn’t you just keep your volt extension cords in your trunk and take them with you wherever you go?
    I won’t tell you the pain I had to go through when I realized I forgot to take my laptop charger with me in my overseas trip… only 4 hrs of battery to live with! Maybe they should build laptops with ICU’s so that I don’t have to remember my charger every time.


  31. 31
    N Riley

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:26 pm)

    We definitely need a standard plug for all vehicles or we will have a wide range of plug types. I just hope it will be weather tight.


  32. 32
    CaptJackSparrow

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:28 pm)

    @DonC 23
    “As noted in #19, it’s the communication line.”

    Hmmmm…
    I wonder what they will be talking about in this comm link?

    SOC? Nah, the internal charge controller takes care of that….

    How much energy was dumped in? Nah, the external charger takes care of that…

    Voltage required to charge110VAC or 220VAC? Doubt it….

    Contact reliability? Nah, that would have to integrated as a signal in the “Hot” wires…

    Who you are, your MAC address or GUID…..lol. Highly possible for billing purposes.

    Hmm….
    I wonder if I’ll be able to “Spoof” my identity so when I charge it will think I’m statik?


  33. 33
    DonC

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:30 pm)

    #22 statik – I don’t think that’s actually the plug. It’s just a graphical rendition which isn’t accurate.

    While there are doubtless hundreds of web sites that have a plug rendition, this one is probably pretty good since it comes from coulomb which is doing the charging stations.

    http://www.ecosilly.com/2008/12/02/coulomb-technologies-showcasing-sae-j1772-networked-charging-stations-for-plug-in-vehicles/

    /Happy technology trails!


  34. 34
    DonC

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:34 pm)

    #32 CaptJackSparrow – Yup, all of those things (excepting the part of assuming statik’s identify, GM will probably not let him charge!).

    You might be interested in reading about Coulomb’s plug at the web site I cited above, and you might want to browse Coulomb’s web site. Coulomb is probably at the forefront of charging stations, or in any event close enough to it.


  35. 35
    statik

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:43 pm)

    #33DonC said:

    #22 statik – I don’t think that’s actually the plug. It’s just a graphical rendition which isn’t accurate.
    ————————————-
    Hehe, I just was being ‘light-hearted’ with the question of ‘can you plug it into a wall socket’…guess I messed up on the humoUr portion of that one.

    Nice dig out on that Ecosilly link. I actually went there to try and find that graphic because I had seen/read about it there myself…I didn’t realize the info was inside the article about the charging station, so when I searched SAE J1772, I completely missed it/couldn’t find it.

    +1 to you
    (=


  36. 36
    old man

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:49 pm)

    Sorry people, I’m old so things sink in slowly. will two cords be needed. The one static showed is 110v and I don’t think it will work with 220v. I can see a 220v side for house plug in with an adaptor for 110v but not the other way around.


  37. 37
    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:51 pm)

    @DonC 34
    “(excepting the part of assuming statik’s identify, GM will probably not let him charge!). ”

    lol…
    Yeah, when he plugs in it’ll be V2G (Vehicle To Grid).
    Aw man that’s col….

    Nuttin but love 4 ya statik.


  38. 38
    Matt

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (1:58 pm)

    In reply to #36:

    Two power pins on the plug to me generally means two hot allowing it to be 220V. Obviously if you wanted it to work on 110, then you’d just use one of the hots (through an adapter) so in that case then you’d only need one cord. I can’t imagine they’d design a 110 only cord since they already mentioned that they want to be able to charge the volt at 220v as well.


  39. 39
    CDAVIS

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (2:17 pm)

    ______________________________________________________
    Dear Director of the GM EV Charging Cords,

    Whatever plug standard is used, here is what I’ve learned over the years with my Short Drive EV (a modified golf cart I use to drive around the neighborhood):

    1. Make cord a bright visible color (I use orange). This greatly helps avoid cord tripping. Also makes cord easier to find if misplaced.

    2. The first three inches of cord on both the male and female ends tend to wear out quicker than the rest of the cord. Some type of cord guard along that section of cord will improve the cord life. I cut a 3” length section of pipe foam insulation down the center (length wise) then zip tie the two sections back together with the cord in the center hole.

    3. The female socket on the car needs to be angled downward otherwise water/condensate may settle inside the female receptacle. Even if the female socket is recessed and/or behind a hatch door (like a gas cap), water may settle inside the female receptacle if not angled down.

    4. Need some kind of anti-drive-off mechanism to prevent driving away with cord plugged in. I’ve done that more times than I care to admit. The anti-drive-off mechanism needs to also work if the cable is not powered for example if the cable has been removed from the wall but is still plugged into the car. My solution is to always place a section of the cord over the cart steering wheel as a reminder but that would obviously the Volt would require a more refined solution.

    5. Replacement of the cord needs to be easy and inexpensive because the cord WILL have to replaced a minimum of every 1-2 years due to wear/mishaps (mishap example: My dog has chewed through three cords without electrocuting himself to death). Please don’t make cord replacement an event that requires a visit to the dealership!!! I mention this because I think I once read that the Volt cord will be retractable into the car. I’ve fooled around over the years with several self retracting (into the car) cord setups and finally gave up on that project because inevitably the retract mechanism fails and/or the cord wears out and is difficult to replace within the retract mechanism. My advice regarding cord storage: KISS.

    6. Need a charger build into the car so that can get a charge by pulling up to any standard outlet.

    I look forward to plugging in my Volt!!!
    ______________________________________________________
    Electric Cars + Nuclear Power = American Energy Independence!
    ______________________________________________________


  40. 40
    Gary

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (2:30 pm)

    It will be nice to be able to pull up to a charging station at the mall or wherever and be able to use the charging station’s own standardized cord, which eliminates the worry about some young punk kid from stealing your own cord… you can keep that one safely in the garage at home.


  41. 41
    Thomas Gilling

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (2:36 pm)

    I think the old technology is patented and I think it’s a oil company who has the technology. Anyone know?


  42. 42
    Jim I

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (2:43 pm)

    I just read this about the “signal lines” on the J1772 connector:

    “What I’ve heard, and obviously it can change again before it is “official”, is that the J1772 charge outlet (grid side) will provide a signal that tells the charger how much AC current is available; the vehicle inlet (charger side) has to provide a signal to the J1772 outlet asking it to turn on and telling it whether or not the vehicle uses batteries that require the charger area to be ventilated (so the station can turn on the ventilation fans, or refuse to charge if it cannot provide ventilation).”

    So these signals would be used if you are using an intelligent charger, like the Coulomb unit. One signal will let the car tell the charger it is there and ready to go. The other signal will let the charger tell the car how much current is available to be sent to the battery pack.

    Here was the source site:

    http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/evdl-j1772-standard-29736.html?s=eea7d0cf6284b926f08daed23e3be213&

    If and/or how the Volt would deal with these signal requirements when plugging into a regular 120V outlet is something Lyle should ask Frank Weber or one of his other contacts at GM.


  43. 43
    Ryan P.

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (2:48 pm)

    As a boat owner, I’d like to know what’s wrong with just adopting the 50A (or 100A) boat “shore power cord” that’s used everywhere. instant availability. problem solved!


  44. 44
    noel park

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (2:58 pm)

    Not to worry guys. it’ll all get sorted out.

    #32 CaptJackSparrow:

    It’s how they’re going to keep track and decide whether to moderate you or not.

    #39 CADAVIS:

    Our dog chewed through a hot extension cord once, He bit the first wire right in two, but quit right away when he got into the second one and completed the circuit. He never did it again, LOL. I wonder what would have happened if it had been 220?

    #41 Thomas Gilling:

    LMAO. I wonder if Jay reads this blog to pick up material for his monologues?

    More fun that the usual political threads, or at least less stress-inducing!


  45. 45
    Don

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (3:03 pm)

    Gaining steam? Isn’t this a done deal?


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    Don

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (3:05 pm)

    #5 Twitterific . . . is that a joke post? Yeah . . . a monster cable . . . it will cost $5000 and be virtually no better than the generic version. You gotta be kidding me.


  47. 47
    Dan Petit

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (3:08 pm)

    Here is another suggestion for the plug-in cord.
    Have a spring-loaded “swing-arm” which can contain the
    cord inside of a rigid conduit which can either be mounted on your garage ceiling, so that you just unplug your Voltec vehicle, and let the cord conduit rise up toward the ceiling. Or, have an outside power-post with the same sort of mechanism so that there is never the case where the cord is on the floor or on the ground.

    =0=========================0====================0=
    wall outlet …………………….. spring pivot …………………………plug-to-Volt
    ………………………………………………………………………..in “up” position
    Dan Petit Austin TX


  48. 48
    Shawn Marshall

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (3:25 pm)

    No such thing as 110 or 220. It’s 120 and 240VAC.

    Hope to have an outboard charger at the other end of the plug permanently wired to a 240Volt GFI circuit.

    The charger would sense a connection to the car and energize the cord. Voila – no electrocution hazard. No need to haul an inverter and etcetera around in the car for charging (saves weight). Remote charging stations would need to be ‘smart enough’ also to energize the cord and provide DC voltage. That’s OK. Do you want grandma trying to hook up a 240volt cord in a rainstorm at the mall parking lot? Maybe you do if she has a little money. The trial lawyers are licking their chops.


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    Keith

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (3:35 pm)

    All outlets in China are of two types , either a round ground pin or a blade type . All power is 220 volts .
    When I was teaching in university there I had to change a couple of outlets in my house for good connections for my monitor and PC.
    The outlets are exactly the same as the ones we use in America except in China they supply 220 instead of 110 power .(probably all made there)
    You can get them in bright orange to show that it is a dedicated use line only to be used to charge up the car .
    If I were to install a 220 line in my garage I would use a standard wall outlet and would label it as 220 volts car power . That way my power cord could also be plugged into any other outlet too and I wouldn’t need to carry around two cords in the car all the time .


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    Electric Vehicle Owner

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (3:38 pm)

    Such FUD everywhere. This is about the vehicle end plug and no consumer gives a flying f*$% about it or the universal SAE J1772 spec it rode in on, unless they plan on buying as many vehicles each as their other consumer electronic devices and plan to mix the cords all up, in which case any vehicle will work with any universal SAE J1772 cord at the vehicle end, so no worries.

    The consumer end plug will be regular old ones you can bonk into whatever’s already around. The US commercial electrical infrastructure has been around since 1882, so there’s no point in reinventing the wheel, or in this case regular old electric outlets and consumer end plug options. Again, this article is about the vehicle end, NOT the consumer end.

    @ Shawn 48
    Do you want grandma trying to hook up a hose full of explosive, flammable liquid fuel on a hot day at some gas station nowhere near mall shopping? “Maybe you do if she has a little money. The trial lawyers are licking their chops.” Most often, anyway, folks’ll charge at home, in their garages, and it’ll timer charge off peak when those folks are nowhere near, probably safely tucked into bed, dreaming of electric sheep.


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    charlie h

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (3:42 pm)

    #22, Statik,

    The fact of the matter is, we don’t know anything for a fact. That pic is an artist’s impression. If we go with your thought, we’ve got 3 prongs on this end and 4 on the other… Why would we have 3 prongs on one and 4 on the other? What’s the non-connection for?

    The basic problem is that GM talks too much. They give conflicting messages about the car’s use of the on-board charger, different execs (who probably can’t tell the difference between their a$$ and a hole in the ground, anyway) weigh in on issues like that. They reveal details, incompletely, about the charging… this is all probably in aid of “infrastructure” and “plug-in friendly communities.”

    GM’s blowing smoke.

    GM! Stop talking! Stop “communicating!” Stop “community building!” Stop telling us about “infrastructure!” Stop revealing details about the car! Fire your communications department (it will save money)!

    Just build the car with a 3-prong pigtail and those who buy it will find a place to plug it in!


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    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (3:45 pm)

    @Keith 49

    I don’t think I would try using a 120VAC socket/cord for 220VAC. Here in the states both are designed for it’s purpose. i.e. a 120VAC cord is designed to protect a person from 120VAC in the sense that the sheath covering/insulators and wire gauge are designed to only protect from 120VAC. To use it as a 220VAC conductor…..well, that’s asking for a ManBQ.

    Will there be two charge ports on the Volt? I vaguely recall this on a previous thread. I ask because I might have to make my left handed wife park on the other side of the drive path in front of the trailer.


  53. 53
    Electric Vehicle Owner

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:09 pm)

    It looks like GM really has absolutely no idea how to market electric drive or plug ins.

    Hint: Show a brief clip (preferably a really old one) of a big guy falling off a log into water. Repeat clip in a loop. Narration: “How easy is it to use the Chevy Volt?” If you can also work in a clip of a standing bear kicking someone in the crotch, all the better. Or has that already been copyrighted?

    Suggestions for marketing improvements?


  54. 54
    MuddyRoverRob

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:13 pm)

    A real discusion about the actual car! woo!

    A standardized plug makes a lot of sense because wall plugs are not the same the world round. One connector on the car end and one N/A cable for me in Canada, but my friend in the UK would order a different cable. For a world car this is the only sane solution!

    For my 2 cents, I’ll have a 220 line installed in my garage, as I’ve said before, a $200 touch to support a $40k investment… I see that as a no brainer.


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    Electric Vehicle Owner

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:17 pm)

    The important part, of course, is to make the splash (or bear kick) noise really loud and long.


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    Electric Vehicle Owner

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:22 pm)

    @ MuddyRoverRob 54

    The article is about the vehicle end, not the wall outlet end. GM has unecessarily and successfully confused you. Why they are purveying FUD is another question.

    Many people already have the higher voltage line. Almost everyone already has regular residential outlets in their garages, so a three pronged consumer end as one of several consumer end options, as well the higher voltage consumer ends, is really the no brainer. KISS.

    Or just make the cord beefy and let the consumer buy a cheapo adaptor.


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    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:24 pm)

    @Electric Vehicle Owner 55
    “The important part, of course, is to make the splash (or bear kick) noise really loud and long.”

    Or give the bear kick sound of the “Bionic Man” when kicking.

    AHAHAHAH!!!!


  58. 58
    Unni

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:30 pm)

    my questions are

    1) Whether this standard available for public for free ?

    2) The Grid communication protocols , are they part of these extensions ? ex: the volt needs to communicate to the grid and get information on the optimal times for charging etc.Are they handled using Onstar or are they extensions of this protocol ?


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    Jackson

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:32 pm)

    I’m breaking a personal rule here, and posting a comment before reading any of the others; so if someone has already thought of this, I apologize.

    I just left the following comment (with a minor edit for clarity) on the source blog, which is currently under moderation:

    “If there is an intention to allow Volt owners to use the car’s battery pack as an emergency source of electricity in a power outage (which would be a nifty selling point), why not make the ’smart plug’ interface allow for this?

    I imagine a separate wire with conventional 110V sockets on one end, and the SAE (whatever) Volt-end connector on the other. The SAE (whatever) plug for this particular wire, as part of the standard, will let the Volt “know” that this wire is connected, either through a specific shape or a circuit chip. This will allow the Volt’s controller to, instead of supply pulses of power to a variable-speed motor, supply regular 60Hz pulses to the socket.

    Switching internal circuitry from input to output in the socket itself may increase expense, but might be cheaper than allowing for a separate plug just for this purpose. (On the other hand, I can see how a cheap connector available “under the hood” might be cheaper than what I’ve just described).


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    statik

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:35 pm)

    Just to momentarily side track. Fritz Henderson is doing a ‘state of the union’ where are we now conference call tomorrow. Update on UAW/bondholder/brand/supplier type thing…most likely a scare moment to try and shake things up thrown in there as well.

    Link to press release…and call-in number if anyone is so inclined:

    http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=53730


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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:41 pm)

    @56 Electric Vehicle Owner
    I’m not confused, just not a professional writer!

    I think the standardized connector at the “car” end makes a great amount of sense because then it doesn’t matter where in the world car is shipped or driven to for that matter. You can always plug in with the right ‘local’ cable.
    I’ll be overly simplistic attempting to make my point clear, in North America we have a single standard power outlet form. Type B according to the link on wiki. The connectors in the UK or Italy for example are different than we have in North America.

    Wiki on electrical connectors around the world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_AC_power_plugs_and_sockets

    Therefore a standard connector on the car side means no matter where you go you can plug in using the correct regional cable.

    The fewer variations in the building of the car the better for all of us because the cost is MUCH lower!


  62. 62
    Electric Vehicle Owner

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:41 pm)

    1940′s clip of a kid getting a model train (with a headlight) going around the Christmas tree with a WWII uniformed dad in the background.

    Cut to 1940′s clip of a GM EMD-FT freight or switcher locomotive heading towards and going through corner or side of screen at high speed.

    Cut to Chevy Volt starting from a stop sign or red light in a light industrial suburban area, driven by Bruce Springsteen, with clear indications of the quick off the line start and high low-speed acceleration and with the electric drive noise amplified.

    Insert appropriate narratives, such as:
    Electric drive – it’s in our blood.
    Strength – when you need it most.
    What’s in your stocking?

    Please, someone, help improve on this. GM’s dismal marketing on the Volt to date is depressing me.


  63. 63
    Keith

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:43 pm)

    Off Topic

    Fisker Plans November 2009 Delivery of Karma Plug-in Hybrid

    http://evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=20832


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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:44 pm)

    @ CaptJackSparrow 57

    “Or give the bear kick sound of the “Bionic Man” when kicking.

    AHAHAHAH!!!!”

    There may be hope for the Volt yet. That improvement made me teary eyed.


  65. 65
    hermant

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:51 pm)

    Will this thing allow a robot to plug in the car in your garage or at a filling/charging station? It will be critical in the near future that robots can find the charge port, line up with it, and then plug in the EV. I mean, Americans are soft, and they NEED as much help as they can possibly get. Imagine what a failure cars like the Volt will be if some gal forgets to plug it in and then has to use gasoline to drive it the next day. Total marketing failure!


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    Apr 16th, 2009 (4:59 pm)

    @ hermant 65

    How can she possibly forget to plug it in when the sound/image combo of a bionic bear kicking someone in the crotch is burned into her brain (probably even a dedicated brain cell on that one) to remind her?

    Who wants a bionic bear to kick them in the crotch if they forget to plug it in?

    Marketing 001

    And if they do forget, big whoop, it’ll happen the next time, after they see the graphic that GM has pop up on screen if that happens. Also, that’s why the power pack never goes below a certain SOC, so no damage if user forgets to plug once in a while .


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    Apr 16th, 2009 (5:03 pm)

    @ hermant 65

    goind point. We could have never developed gas stations without those robots that connect the gas hoses to our cars.


  68. 68
    noel park

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (5:07 pm)

    #60 statik:

    Aaaaaaaaahhhh, maybe somebody can listen and give us a quick summary. Any voluneeers, LOL?

    #63 Keith:

    Fisker? 10-88.

    # 65 hermant:

    Our big Impala fits in the garage with about 6″ to spare. We have a tennis ball hanging from the ceiling on a string. There is a bit of tape on the windshield at the sweet spot for side to side. When the tape hits the tennis ball, you can safely close the garage door.

    When we get our Volt, I will drape the charging cord over the same nail. When the windsheld bonks the plug, it will remind us to plug it in. A high tech solution for a high tech car.


  69. 69
    noel park

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (5:11 pm)

    #67 Electric Vehicle Owner:

    Have you ever seen someone drive away with the gas hose still stuck in the filler? It happens. Not a pretty sight. I even have to confess that I did it once. Boy, you should see me crane my neck to double check now.

    I hope for a great big “Plugged In” idiot light on the dash.


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    Troy Gusler II

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (5:37 pm)

    They need to put a data link in the cable..what I mean, is that the plug should also connect to a port on the car. It could be used for multiple things. One example would be that when you get to a charge station the plug knows which car you have and what the correct charging rates are. Along with many other uses.. I was thinking wireless is great but shouldnt be the only way to connect. It could help prevent people from driving off with the plug still in… or maybe there should be a mechanical + software solution with voting… hmm.. well, let’s see what the come up with. I am sure it wont be confuse us simple humans


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    chevonly

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (5:56 pm)

    As usual you guys have it all wrong, let the Japaneese or Chineese design the plug, preferably with lead or some other toxin, also when the plug is connected properly it should have the car horn play a little jingle for you and some flashing LEDs would also be handy, we must think about the young people out there with ADD and the bipolar set, JUST LET THE ENGINEERS DO THERE JOBS AND STOP POSTULATING ABOUT SOMETHING YOU HAVE ZERO KNOWLEGE ABOUT.


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    Mark Z

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (6:06 pm)

    #21 Jon – It does appear that Tesla already has the safety you describe in mind. The connector at the top of the this page looks identical to the Tesla design.

    To quote two answers from the FAQ from Tesla’s web site:

    “Our charge system will be listed by a NRTL (Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory), such as UL or CSA, and incorporates a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) very similar to the plugs in most bathrooms and kitchens. Before every charge, computers in both the car and the charge system make sure the car is parked and all electrical systems are working perfectly. We’ve even added additional safety features to shut down charge if the cord is tugged or smoke is detected…The plug on the High Power Connector only becomes live when it is properly connected to a car and the connection is deemed safe. In addition, the contacts in the connector are protected by insulating towers around the sockets on the plug end and dead-front pins on the receptacle side. These towers meet the Underwriters Laboratories finger probe test.”

    Check out photos and descriptions of the cables available for charging the car at the following web page:

    http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/charging

    The last photo on the “High Power Connector” page shows the pin configuration clearly.


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    Mark Z

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (6:22 pm)

    Sorry, I was wrong. Tesla uses 4 pins and the latest draft shown below uses 5 pins.

    http://www.ecosilly.com/2008/12/02/coulomb-technologies-showcasing-sae-j1772-networked-charging-stations-for-plug-in-vehicles/

    However, they note that this 5 pin design is for lower power needs and to quote the article:

    “It is assumed that high power capable EVs (50+ kW) would now make use of a separate on-vehicle higher-power inlet standard that is yet to be developed.”


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    Danny Ainge

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (6:34 pm)

    This is outrageous.The industry de-facto standard plug is the one chosen for the Toyota Prius. This is a no brainer. Sounds like GM is just trying to muscle its way into the hybrid/ev community without having a viable vehicle. Butt out GM. This is Toyota and China’s turf.

    I think I’m having a heart attack….. ugggh


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    16falcon

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (6:44 pm)

    I wonder if there will be an adapter for the charge cable so you can use it for both 120V and 240V charging, or if you will have to buy 2 cables, one for 120V and one for 240V? The car end would be the same SAE J1772 connector but the other end would either be a standard grounded 120V plug or a standard 240V plug. That brings up the question of which “standard” 240V receptacle will be required or preferred? The following link to an electrical supply vendor shows 5 different receptacles that are in use in the U.S. (there may be more). My current dryer connection looks like the first one (Tesla’s 240V charger uses the last one I think). I use a natural gas dryer (doesn’t use the 240V socket) so I may disconnect the wires to that dryer receptacle at the circuit breaker box and use that circuit breaker to run a line to my 240V Car charger receptacle in the garage.

    http://electrical-supply.net/category.asp_Q_parentid_E_8_A_subcatid_E_312

    Plenty of time to work out these minor details, but it’s fun to think about.


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    robb

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (6:52 pm)

    I see one problem with a standardized plug. Control over where you charge from. Similar to how you can’t watch high definition video over component cables. FCC regulations.

    The plug will allow both 120v and 240v current but, only 120v when you use a conversion cable to a standard three prong. If you want to use 240v than you will need to use an authorized outlet.

    I think if this plug becomes a standard there will be regulations to keep people from charging anywhere but specific controllable, trackable, and traceable locations.


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    noel park

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (6:58 pm)

    Ouch. My head is starting to hurt.


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    RB

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (7:16 pm)

    #60 statik — thanks for the link to the GM conference call


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    Roy

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (7:31 pm)

    I can’t believe the standard does not support 3 phase AC. The plug needs to support 110v and 220v single phase up to 80A for home charging and 240v, 440v 3 phase 120A for on the road or commercial charging. The existing standard 220v 48A is good for hybrids but will be inadequate for full BEVs. A proposed extension allowing 200A (but still single phase 220v) will be useless as all higher power sources will be 3 phase.


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    Terry

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (7:41 pm)

    I think the point people are missing here is that this plug is meant to be used with dedicated charging stations and your EV/PHEV. Not only will this have to work with your Volt, but it will need to work with the various models of Tesla’s or other PHEV’s. This spec will allow anyone to build a charging station (for home or industrial use) knowing it will work with all EV/PHEVs. This will become the PREFERRED method of charging your car. While you can probably still charge the car using a standard 110 V plug, it is probably not ideal for safety reasons. The battery in an EV can draw a lot of current and if you just plug it into any plug, you have no idea if that circuit can handle the demand from your car. Now if you have a dedicated circuit in the garage with the proper gauge wire then this shouldn’t be a problem. But unless they build a lot of intelligence into the charge controller in the car (which will increase cost) this could lead to lots of tripped breakers (best case) or a lot of house fires (worse case).


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    jeffhre

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (8:09 pm)

    charlie h

    GM! Stop talking! Stop “communicating!”
    ______________

    You’re communicating a lot for someone with that demand.

    _____________
    Terry Says:
    But unless they build a lot of intelligence into the charge controller in the car (which will increase cost) this could lead to lots of tripped breakers (best case) or a lot of house fires (worse case).
    _____________

    You’re right, so far the OEM’s are putting a lot of intelligence into them, at least compared to an appliance with a cord and a dumb power supply.


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    Unni

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (8:11 pm)

    Some more info found from autoblog:

    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/16/gm-calls-for-plug-in-standards/

    In addition to transmitting power, the new plugs will also provide a communications link that can be used for billing systems and relaying the battery state of charge to turn off the charger.

    Lyle : expectations are getting high. Now i have browse other sites also.


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    charlie

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (9:13 pm)

    The SAE is working on the Level 3 fast charging standard that is for 480V up to 400A 3 phase.

    It will be a different connector.

    This connector is for the Level 2 and proposed Level 2+ chargers.

    see the third page
    http://www.pge.com/includes/docs/pdfs/about/environment/pge/electricvehicles/ev4pt2.pdf


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    an_outsider

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (9:27 pm)

    A new plug standard is a good achievement goal by itself, but :

    Are all futur “plug-in” car to have onboard charger ? I do not believe so for space/weight/technical considerations (automatic dual voltage/frequency & current) and others, it probably won’t be the case.

    So, with an external charger with Ac single/three phase supply, would it be a DC (plug and) curent flow between the smart charger and its car? It has to be smart enough to absolutely avoid DC arcing (which may damage/destroy) poorly designed contacts and be a potential hazard for user (Unless using the same kind of EV-1 charger magnetic paddle**). That is where the communication channel between the car and its charger becomes so important: ampacity, hourly rate billing, safety, etc. May the com. be done wireless with Bluetooth (short distance & secure channel is a must), why not? For sure, the easier and safer it has to be, the more chance it has to be adopt as a new common practice, it will be the right way to go… but as anyone knows, no size really fits all !

    **EV-1 no contact magnetic paddle charger http://www.eanet.com/kodama/ev1/chargers.htm

    Just for fun
    http://www.stefanoparis.com/piaev/ev1/EV1ads/Attik.EV1.02-h264.mov


  85. 85
    an_outsider

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (9:56 pm)

    I should have written “inductive” paddle, not magnetic.


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    DaV8or

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (10:44 pm)

    I can’t believe that there are at least 85 posts here worrying whether or not they will be able to plug their Volt in.

    PEOPLE, EVEN THOUGH GM IS NOT A JAPANESE COMPANY, THERE ARE STILL A FEW ENGINEERS LEFT IN THIS COUNTRY THAT ARE MORE THAN CAPABLE OF THIS TASK. YOU WILL BE ABLE TO PLUG YOUR CAR IN AT HOME.

    HAVE SOME FAITH.


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    solo

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (11:00 pm)

    Obviously if you buy a Volt it will come with the appropriate extension cord so you can plug it into your household current (110 v).

    The big concern here is the ‘car’ end or the female side of the extension cord.
    If there was an agreed upon standard like the one proposed here, then charging stations could be designed to work with a wide variety of electric and plug in hybrid vehicles. The way I see it, the CHARGING STATION would have a power cord on a reel freeing the car owner from having to drag his cord out of the trunk. Thus the female end needs to be standardized so the charging station cord will work with any vehicle. This would also protect the owner from losing his power cord to urban thieves.

    Other reasons for unified standard are obviously safety. Charging stations will likely run at much higher voltages than household current. The plug will likely have a sensor to make sure it is seated properly before the current is switched on. It also has to be very VERY waterproof for obvious safety and liability reasons.

    Also consider these cars will be sold around the world. Not everybody has 60hz current. I think most euro countries are running 50hz current. Not sure if the plug will have anything to do with but it has to be taken into consideration.

    Last but most importantly to the Socialist Republics of the world (Most of Europe and soon the U.S.) You gotta download telemetry from the customers car into the government carbon tax database so they can rape your bank account.


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    ccombs

     

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    Apr 16th, 2009 (11:43 pm)

    AHHHHH. Guys, it will still have a standard plug to your wall- it is only the connection to the car that matters, so all charging stations will be compatible. Stop stressing. And no, a simple 3-prong won’t work for this type of application when the voltage and amperage gets high, so GM is intelligent to push for a standard.


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    joe obrien

     

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    Apr 17th, 2009 (3:40 am)

    Wow, the tards are running rampant. The plug in this article is for the CAR side, the outlet is standard 110 morons.

    Jeesh, read a bit beyond your 3rd grade ability before commenting.

    Noye, only retards were meant to be offended by that statement.


  90. 90
    statik

     

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    Apr 17th, 2009 (6:48 am)

    #68 noel park said:

    #60 statik:Aaaaaaaaahhhh, maybe somebody can listen and give us a quick summary. Any voluneeers, LOL?
    ——————————–
    #78 RB said: #60 statik — thanks for the link to the GM conference call
    ===========================
    I’m actually not going to be available for that one.

    There is a growing consensus (fed by a automotive news article and a GM internal release), that perhaps GM is going announce shuttering all those ‘extra’ dealers (up to 1,500). They have prewarned the dealers they will be hitting the ‘terminate’ button by on more dealer heads by June 1st (in a release on tuesday)…so I’m sure they are all real thrilled about that.

    ‘Back in the day’ that would have meant litigation for those dealers canned…and a few million a piece in payola (ala Oldsmobile) thanks to franchise laws and existing contracts….in the new universe, GM gets this done now, and then? Yupe, C11.

    What is interesting is if they do pull this move and announced a huge dealer shutdown, it pretty much puts out the flashing we are going in a GSB sign.

    SIdenote: 10% ‘economic hard times’ and 90% d-bag moves by GMAC/GM have closed over 200 dealers YTD (through March 31st)….but not fast enough I guess. The dealers apparently are stronger than GM thought, a lot are not dying when their financing is pulled.


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    kent beuchert

     

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    Apr 17th, 2009 (9:57 am)

    The folks at Monster Cable are mostly known for rippoffs. They are under investigation by several govt agencies. They make the silly claim that their cables produce “better pictures” on digital TVs. That’s pure hokum – digital cables don’t allow for analog-like signal fluctuations to interefere with the veracity of the data or the quality of the picture. If the receiver receives the data as sent, it has a perfect replication of what was sent. If data is not received properly, you will see bright spots and empty spaces on your screen. If you
    don’t see any of them (and I never do), then you are receiving the signal perfectly, and there is no conceivable way the picture quality can be improved via transmission alterations.
    As for this plug. If it has a 70 amp/220V limit, then it wouldn’t be able to handle fast recharging batteries, like the Altair Nano or the upcoming li ions with the MIT invented fast recharge capability (A123 Systems, GM’s partner has licensed the technology). In order to recharge a 50 kilowatthour capacity battery pack in ten minutes, we need a 300 kilowatt source.
    220 volts at 70 amps only yields a 15,400 watt (or 15.4 kilowatt) feed.
    That would take over 3 hours to recharge a 50 kilowatthour capacity battery, which would be a typcial size for a battery-only EV.
    If I’m right about this, then this standard really can’t ever become a standard for all electric cars. Perhaps the standard for plug-in hybrids? Is there some reason why existing and standardized 110 and 220 plugs cannot be used? Those we all know about.


  92. 92
    Electric Vehicle Owner

     

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    Apr 17th, 2009 (12:48 pm)

    @ Terry 80

    re: the second part of your post, starting with “While you can probably still charge the car using a standard 110 V plug, it is probably not ideal for safety reasons”.

    First, the article is about standardizing the VEHICLE end of the cord and thus the VEHICLE input, not the consumer end, so any discussion about charging stations or consumer to outlet interactions is completely irrelevant. Every time this site posts something or GM opens its mouth about electric vehicle power cords and standards, massive confusion results. Please read the critical statement in the article again, “Yes we are aware the driver will attach an electric cord from the wallbox to the car, but at issue is exactly how that cord will fit into the car.” Unfortunately, the issue of how that cord will fit into the car is NOT a consumer issue. So long as their vehicle cord works with their vehicle and it plugs into any old common consumer electrical outlet, such as already exists in their garage, the consumer could care less about the details.

    Second, Terry, the second part of your post is pure rubbish and will confuse people. The only reason for using 220-240 over 110-20 is for potential speed of charging, not for safety, and only assumes that GM will provide a cord robust enough for either with plug ins for all common outlet types in each sales region. GM could also offer multiple cord options if it so chooses. No big whoop to do.

    I charge my electric vehicle using a standard consumer end plug all of the time. It’s easy, safe and works instantly with the already hundred of millions of existing regular outlets all over the country.

    Whatever the Volt ends up doing, I already charge my vehicle using a standard consumer end plug (110-120V, you guys argue over which it is, its just the plain old oulet on my garage wall that a small kitchen appliance (like a toaster, blender or coffee maker) or my electric vehicle works in), ideal for safety reasons. I am certain that GM will make it brainless for consumers to use their vehicle cords with existing infrastructure as is (both 110-120 and 220-240 and whatever is common where sales are likely) (as well as the new stuff coming on line) or pay the price.

    BTW, I can fast charge (half the time) using 110-120 by simply ganging chargers – just as easy and safe, but I suppose this site would consider that for experts only.

    Sigh, so much learning to do and so much FUD. Once people are familar with electric drive, they will see that using it truly is falling off a log easy, indeed, much easier than a pure gasser.


  93. 93
    fas

     

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    Apr 17th, 2009 (1:31 pm)

    Its quite interesting to know what exactly goers into the Volt. GM needs to spread the know how so the consumers have belief in them.


  94. 94
    Electric Vehicle Owner

     

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    Apr 17th, 2009 (3:58 pm)

    @ fas 93.

    I’m glad you are interested in the fuel attachment. You’re an unusual vehicle consumer.

    Vehicle consumer gearheads usually don’t get hepped up over details of a gas station pump, a gas cap or its technology, although they are important to gas only vehicles. They do get hepped up over engine tech and vehicle performance. Show the Volt’s electric motor, its heart, explain how it’s superior to some other lame one and throw up some 0-30 mph Volt times (electric drive should do well in off the line performance up to the system’s maximum power level, due to instant, maximum torque) to impress consumers.

    Consumers have limited belief in GM, so GM needs to have YouTubes of the Volt at the drag strip against regular midsize gas only sedans for 0-60 mph tests and off the line (0-30 mph) performance measurements, at the short twisty race track to show superior handling and in stop and go (stop signs, red lights) short block two lane wide head to head comparisons against pure gassers to show its natural advantages and of course, a Volt only Cup Series ASAP, so people can see them in action. Actions speak much louder than words.


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    perplexed

     

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    Apr 18th, 2009 (8:27 am)

    I must admit I don’t see the need for this new standard; It seems to me that NEMA l6-30r would suffice (http://www.levitonproducts.com/catalog/dept_id_1001.htm?sid=CF19FDB836AC2CB1BB993257441C4F8F&pid=1208
    )! Off-the-shelf components (Cords, GFCIs, outlets, etc.) are all readily available.

    There is also the IEC 309 standard http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEC_60309 for which there seems to be plenty of components…
    http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpSctDspRte.jsp?section=10153&minisite=10026&sitex=10026:22372:US

    What are the issues with these other standards? I can’t believe no one has thought of this before, so there must be a good reason to develop SAE J1772…


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    MrBogey

     

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    Apr 18th, 2009 (11:22 am)

    Looks like a hubble connector. I hope the pins allow for data as well as voltage. Might make future growth a lot easier.


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    BlackSun

     

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    Apr 18th, 2009 (4:06 pm)

    I’m wondering why no one has seriously discussed the use of inductive coupling. A properly designed coil on the undercarriage of the car could align with a coil in the garage or driveway for automatic charging. This could also be implemented in public garages and at workplaces.

    I know losses could be a problem, but the corrosion of any connector will doubtless also lead to losses. I’m sure someone will design an aftermarket inductive couple. Why not make it part of the initial standard?


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    Bob G

     

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    Apr 19th, 2009 (11:49 am)

    It seems to me that we are just assuming that a plug is the best solution. I contend that it will be fun at first to plug our electric cars in each evening, but will soon become an annoyance. I would like to have some sort of charging dock that I could drive onto and it would mate my garage power to bus bars under the car.

    I mention bus bars because, although inductive charging may be acceptable for mobile phone batteries, the losses (waste heat and lost $$) are too large to be practical for electric vehicles.


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    Florian Schulz

     

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    Apr 20th, 2009 (2:12 am)

    Here is a link to a german site, saying that the industry and electric companies in europe have decided for a three pole plugin. The plugin will be shown at the opening of the electric expo in hannover these days.

    http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,619833,00.html


  100. 100
    Lev

     

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    Apr 20th, 2009 (8:40 pm)

    Standardizing will allow for the creation of aftermarket plugs from walmart or ebay. These work horribly and will make people think it’s the car’s fault and they will blame the car.

    I have not heard much talk about how it will be charged if you park the car on the side of a the street in parallel formation or park the car on a driveway but not near a building.


  101. 101
    Electric Vehicle Owner

     

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    Apr 21st, 2009 (10:41 am)

    @Lev 100

    Congratulations. You have successfully created a piece of FUD. It’s value is 0, other than training people how to successfully and calmly answer and defeat any irrational complaint folks might have with electric drive.

    What a shame that Walmart and e-bay went out of business years ago since products at Walmart and e-bay are so inferior, as Lev claims. What, Walmart and e-bay are actually hugely successful businesses, know for providing access to desirable, functional products, often exactly as advertised, at low prices? So much for Lev’s FUD. Poof.

    Lev, I have not heard much talk about how a gas car will be refueled on site if you park the car on the side of a street in parallel formation or park the car on a driveway but not near a gas station. Based on this, there are obviously no gas cars in existence, as they cannot be refueled everywhere at all times. (BTW, there are more buildings (all with electrical power and outlets) than gas stations).


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  103. 103
    Rif

     

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    Apr 25th, 2009 (9:28 am)

    @Florian Schulz
    The short specs for the European (Menneske) plug that you mention is here:
    http://www.danskelbilkomite.dk/StdConnector.pdf

    Photos:
    http://ing.dk/gallerier/109314

    As it allows 1 phase 230V or 3 phases, at 16A, 32A or 63A. A data pin connecting vehicle and wall plug will decide on highest common denominator for charging before opening power connection.

    It would hence be possible to fit into the US residential electrical standard, where a 1 phase 240V with 16A or 32A is available.


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    David Benson

     

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    Nov 3rd, 2009 (9:48 am)

    Hi,
    Just to say thank for your preciouse time in coming up with this post right here on your site. Can you provide more information on this topic if possible? I have already subscribed to your post via Google News Reader to let me read them as soon as possible. Weldone for your time in making up these intersting posts for those that want to make good use of them.