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Jay Leno Test Drives the Chevy Volt Mule

April 8th, 2009 | Posted in: Public Opinion, Test drive

Famous comedian and Tonight Show host Jay Leno arrived in Detroit Monday night ahead of free performances he’s giving Tuesday and Wednesday night to show support and solidarity for the beleaguered city. His so-called “Comedy Stimulus Package” is for “anyone out of work in Detroit,” said Leno. “The idea is: ‘Come on down. Forget your troubles … and meet other people in your situation.” On Tuesday thousands lined up in cold and snow to attend the show, in which he launched a freewheeling 80 minute monologue.

While in town, Leno spent time on Tuesday visiting GM’s facilities. Leno is a vigorous auto enthusiast and has specific interest in electric vehicles. He is also an ardent and specific supporter of US automakers and the US auto industry. He has most recently bought a new Corvette and Challenger and owns one of the original Baker electric cars built in 1909. He also currently has in his possession GM’s fuel cell Equinox and a MINI E.

While at the GM facilities, Leno was given the chance to test drive one of the current Cruze-body Chevy Volt mule vehicles. He was accompanied by Ed Welburn, GM’s VP of Design, shown above with Jay.

Leno had previously noted “I think you’ll find that the Volt will be a superior package to the Prius,” and that he “would love to be” one of the first to test drive the Volt in real-world conditions.

He was said to rave about the Volt experience. “I’m not an engineer but I know enough … and I saw some impressive technology out there,” he said.

I was able obtain a firsthand report of the event from Mr. Welburn. “Jay and I had a great morning. He and I toured the Volt studio where he saw the final details of the production Volt. He then drove the car and visited the battery lab,” said Welburn. “I can’t speak for Jay, but I sure enjoyed it.”

For those of you who wonder if and when I will have a chance to drive the mule, don’t sweat it, every dog has his day.

Source (Detroit News)

Posted by: Lyle

148 Responses to “Jay Leno Test Drives the Chevy Volt Mule”

Arch Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:04 am

I love it. Another GM joke.

Take Care
Arch
PLJ Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:09 am

Lyle should have been first to drive it.
Jackson Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:12 am

Yeahhhh! I’ve been waiting for this. Jay is extremely influential, and can reach a public that we here cannot.
Dave99 Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:12 am

awesome! I wonder if he’ll say anything on his show about it?
Rashiid Amul Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:15 am

Of course, GM’s most ardent supporter is not allowed to drive a mule.
Lyle, you should shut down this site for a few weeks in protest.
Jackson Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:20 am

Rashiid! THINK of what you’re SAYING!!!

No one outside of GM has been first to drive the all-up fully integrated, Volt-body-and-all version. Perhaps Lyle will be numero uno on that list.

But mostly, I would have to do without this site for several weeks.
john1701a Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:21 am

Better be careful. Publicity like this is the very thing that leads to disenchantment.

The key to avoiding that is providing lots of concise detail. Too bad it comes and goes without being made easy to find.
Gsned57 Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:22 am

I’m with Rashiid
old man Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:25 am

I think allowing Leno to drive one of the mules illustrates the complete confidence and commitment G M has with the Volt. If Leno was not impressed he would have the ability to laugh about it in front of millions.
sudhaman Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:27 am

dont worry the volt will win the game it will rock the detroit and whole usa and no one needs to import from the chinese assholes or the japanese
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:28 am

If Jay Leno drives a Volt mule and can talk about it, I would assume Lyle has not been given the chance to drive one. Logic says if Leno can talk about it, then Lyle would have been able to do the same. So, sorry Lyle, maybe GM will wake up and give you a chance soon. What are you waiting for, GM?
SteveK Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:32 am

This is a very good thing for the Volt. It may come as a shock to the posters here, but many people have never heard of the car. It depends on how much Leno says publicly about the Volt, but this kind of free publicity is very valuable.
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:34 am

This may be an indication of how GM expects to sell the first few thousand Volts. They may sell them to “famous” people like Leno. That could backfire on GM if they are not careful, plus making a lot of us very unhappy. It kind of makes you happy there will be a lot of other choices in 2011. Thanks, GM.
nasaman Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:38 am

Where could Leno ever find a venue large enough to hold even a fraction of Detroit’s unemployed? …..Oh I forgot —there’s a huge empty executive suite atop the GM Renaissance Center where I heard some other jokester (named Wagoner?) used to perform daily…..

….sorry Rick, no offense meant!
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:39 am

#12 SteveK

We will just have to wait and see how much Leno talks about it. If he only mentions it once on his show, that will reach a good number of people. If he mentions it several times or pretty often, that will be worth a pot of gold. Assuming all comments are favorable to the Volt and GM.
Gary Thison Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:42 am

A fun show. Jay showed he still has his stand up comedy chops and didn’t shy away from slamming the ignorant and short-sighted Detroit City Council. Please read my review of the show on Examiner.com
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:42 am

OK, Wagoner is gone. We can start cutting him some slack now. Or rather, it is not doing any good to keep blaming the guy who just vacated the office. It is the job of someone else to make good decisions for the company and that person needs all of our attention and support. In this instance GM is kinda like the U.S. A change of leadership should put the past behind us and work to build a better future.
Gary Thison Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:43 am

It was a fun show. And Jay started it with a slam to the arrogant and clueless Detroit City Council. Please click here to read my Examiner article about the show.
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:46 am

I don’t watch Leno much. From what I know, he doesn’t do a lot of car talk on his TV show. He does corny jokes and helps promote celebrity projects. I know we find entertainment value in the Volt, but I don’t think mainstream America does.

If Leno got a chance to drive the PUMA, you might expect to hear some Leno “comedy”
RB Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:51 am

The Volt now has Obama and Leno, so it does not need ordinary people like me. Hope they and those in their circles enjoy the experience.
Arch Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:52 am

OK Where is the Volt?

http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayReleaseContent.aspx?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/04-07-2009/5002453&EDATE%20

Take Care
Arch
nasaman Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:54 am

#16, 18 Gary Thison…….
===========================================================================
Great article, Gary! …However, I still think a better venue would have been at GM’s glittering Renaissance Center in the massive executive suite recently vacated on the top floor. And the Detroit City Council would have loved it!
RB Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:54 am

#12K SteveK says ” It may come as a shock to the posters here, but many people have never heard of the car. It depends on how much Leno says publicly about the Volt”
————————————————–

It is hardly a shock. “We know best and don’t want to hear from you” has been standard GM practice for at least 25 years.
CorvetteGuy Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 9:06 am

Would somebody please tell Ed Welburn that now would be a good time to show a VOLT in some other color besides Silver?

It’s nice and all, but it might generate more excitement if we could all see one in Red, or Blue, even Black.
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 9:10 am

#24 CorvetteGuy

For another color, you’ve got to wait for Transformers 2
old man Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 9:11 am

#24 Corvette Guy

Agreed! Even if they only have one, Just repaint the d@mn thing.
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 9:32 am

Leno does benefit comedy show for laid-off workers – he gets a Volt mule ride. Maybe Lyle could do benefit brain-surgeries for GM brass. That might get him a Volt mule ride.
Mike-o-Matic Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 9:38 am

@ #2 PLJ, et. al.,
>> Lyle should have been first to drive it.

Everybody relax. GM can easily make up for past transgressions by making Lyle the first to drive a finalized, production Volt. Truthfully, that ought to be the same day they hand him the keys — and don’t expect him to return them, or charge him for car.

Anybody marketing professional (and I don’t just mean GM’s marketing dept.) who does not recognize the power of what Lyle’s done here… is a blithering idiot.
Jackson Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 9:44 am

ThombDbhomb (#28):

“Leno does benefit comedy show for laid-off workers – he gets a Volt mule ride. Maybe Lyle could do benefit brain-surgeries for GM brass. That might get him a Volt mule ride.”

… and no one needs them worse!!
Dave B Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 9:45 am

Really people…

No offense to Lyle, but what is bigger news? Jay Leno test driving the new Volt of Lyle, blogger of us Volt-nutballs? Got to give it to GM for making the right call. Still, GM should be offering more rides at this point…hello…

Second, anyone suggesting that Lyle (or anyone for that matter) be given a free Volt from a bankrupt company needs a lesson in basic fiance.

No offense Lyle, I’m proud of you and thankful, but a realist.
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 9:59 am

What is going on with this site today. I had several comments that I posted and they appeared on the site, but now they are gone. They were just “run of the mill” comments. Not insulting or anything like that. Just general comments on the subject matter. What is up Lyle?
Guy Incognito Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:01 am

Although noteworthy, Jay Leno driving a Volt mule is not a substitution for advertising.
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:03 am

#32 Guy Incognito

“Although noteworthy, Jay Leno driving a Volt mule is not a substitution for advertising.”
——————

In today’s world GM needs all avenues of advertising. At least this one will not cost much and if Leno gives the Volt high praise, it will be very good for GM.
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:06 am

I just saw a poll shown on Fox News (I don’t remember who did the poll) that showed 54% of the respondents would still buy a car from a manufacturer in bankruptcy. Personally, I would want to know who the manufacturer was before I would say that. Some are better equipped to come out of bankruptcy than others. Of course, the government is now backing the warranties for GM and Chrysler vehicles.
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:07 am

#31 N Riley

Try some insulting comments – see how that goes.
Tagamet Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:09 am

I just can’t imagine GM taking on the risk of letting Jay Leno take a ride, (apparently without a nondisclosure agreement) without being extremely comfortable that the Volt WILL be able to perform impressively. Leno is known to be knowledgeable and has a large enough audience to devastate the Volt before the first one rolls off the line. JMO.
Be well,
Tag
PS I stopped watching Leno when his people didn’t call my people for us to do lunch (g).
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:10 am

How scientific was the Fox News poll? Your approach (considering the manufacturer and circumstances) seems too nuanced. You would not make a good Fox News poll responder.

[Is this an insulting comment (to Fox News poll responders)?]
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:11 am

#35 ThombDbhomb

“Try some insulting comments – see how that goes.”
—————–

Why? Has that been working for you?
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:15 am

#37 ThombDbhomb

“How scientific was the Fox News poll? Your approach (considering the manufacturer and circumstances) seems too nuanced. You would not make a good Fox News poll responder.

(Is this an insulting comment?)”
—————————

Like I said, I did not catch who did the poll. I just caught some of the story as I was getting coffee in the company’s lounge. Of course, since it was shown on Fox News, it would be an insult to some on the site, I am sure. Not to me, though. I like Fox News and some of the others also.

But, I can get insulting, if needed. Come on, someone give me a reason. Just “make my day”. Please!
Dr.Science #11 on the list Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:15 am

Obviously, Leno’s TV program has more exposure than Lyle’s web site.
unni Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:16 am

Lyle, we know you got a drive, you are not telling to us.

off the topic :
No DoE loans for GM, only ford qualifies for the loans
Arch Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:20 am

HOT GM chat for the day.

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2009/04/webchat_lead_development_engineer_and_marketing_director_for_gmc_terrain_to_answer_your_questions.html

Take Care
Arch
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:20 am

#40 Dr.Science #11 on the list

“Obviously, Leno’s TV program has more exposure than Lyle’s web site.”
————————-

I am not so sure that it is as obvious as you would think. The gm-volt site is available at every internet connection. Jay Leno’s Tonight show is not. We don’t know how many people who might take a quick look at the Volt site but not register. Lyle could tell us how many “hits” he gets on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. But, yeah, Leno gets a lot of “hits” also.
Kent Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:23 am

#10 Sudhaman:

“Chinese assholes”? What’s your problem?
naurthandareen Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:25 am

what? that long faced guy test drive the mule? well he looks like a mule anyway…

i bet Lyle will test drive the real Volt someday…

go volt! go Lyle!
David K (CT) Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:32 am

unni@41

Here’s an article…

http://www.leftlanenews.com/gm-chrysler-blocked-from-energy-department-loans-ford-seeking-11-billion.html

GM, Chrysler blocked from Energy Department loans; Ford seeking $11 billion General Motors and Chrysler have been blocked from receiving a share of the $25 billion loan program set up by the Department of Energy to provide a low-interest loans for alternative energy vehicle development. Meanwhile, Ford is said to be seeking $11 billion from the program. Under the legislation that authorized the program, only “financially viable” companies may receive loans.

Interestingly, the $25 billion was set aside long before GM or Chrysler went to the U.S. government to be rescued. In fact, the program predates the financial collapse of late 2008, and was actually established much earlier in the recession.

Because Ford has not received any “bailout” money from the U.S. government, it can be considered “financially viable” under the rules. Other companies vying for a piece of the pie include battery maker A123 Systems, which is seeking $1.84 billion, and Tesla Motors, which is looking for $250 million.

Funds are expected to be dispersed in the next few weeks. Last week, President Barack Obama gave Chrysler 30 days to merge with Fiat, and GM 60 days to restructure or enter bankruptcy. If the two automakers “miss the boat” on the DEO loans, so to speak, it’s not known if they will get a second chance. For example, a portion of the money could be set aside until the companies’ ultimate fates are decided, but that’s purely speculation. GM is hoping to get $10.3 billion, while Chrysler wants $6 billion. A total of $44.6 billion in requests have been submitted by various companies.

“They can’t give us the loans until all other issues are worked out,” GM spokesman Kerry Christopher told the Detroit Free Press. She noted the DOE was working closely with the Treasury on the loan decisions.
ccombs Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:37 am

Thanks #44 kent!
#10 Sudhaman: I normally don’t respond, but I’m sick of this anti-foreign crap that sometimes is posted on this site. Sure I want US auto manufacturers to make great cars, but don’t you think our lives would be even better if *everyone* made EVs? China and Japan need them nearly as much as the US does, especially in their big cities. Yes, Japanese automakers get unfair advantages, but after the US bailouts, it is hard to see much ground for hatred of them in that area. On the grounds of national security- the more trade connections between China, Japan, and the US the better, as it would make war much less likely. Imagine if other countries followed your example and kicked out foreign automakers- GM would lose basically all their profitable sectors in other countries. Protectionism, although politically appealing, kills economies. Having exhausted the possible logical reasons for your dislike of Asian countries…
Might I respectfully suggest that you are a racist idiot? Sure, some Chinese and Japanese people are “a**holes”, but no more so than people from any other ethnicities. You, on the other hand, have just added to the US idiot quotient. Good job, now we all have to make up for you.

美国，中国和日本都应该做电车！

PS. I found it ironic that I (not an Asian but an engineer, which means everyone I’m with all day is Asian ) was listening to C-pop at the time I read that comment- yay free trade! I wonder who would win if Wang Leehom and poster 10 got in a fight…actually maybe a more fair match would be poster 10 and Jolin Tsai with a hand tied behind her back . *Sigh*, all these comments were probably lost on most readers.
Kent Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:42 am

Thank you #47!

#10 – Please keep your bigotry to yourself and leave the postings on this blog to the Volt enthusiasts.
john1701a Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:50 am

Two-Mode was given similar attention.

Second generation (downsize to 6-cylinder engine and FWD) was supposed to propel it into the mainstream. Instead, it continues to be delayed.

How will Voltec be different?
Somali Pirate Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:53 am

Lets see here. Jay Leno’s 1909 electric car goes 25mph and has a range of 100 miles. The 2009 Segway/GM PUMA goes 35mph and has a range of 35 miles. WOW that’s 100 years of progress.

GM == FAIL

Somebody needs to hijack GM ship and fix its steering
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:53 am

#38, #39 N Riley

A bit snippy this morning, aren’t you?
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 11:09 am

#51 ThombDbhomb

“#38, #39 N Riley

A bit snippy this morning, aren’t you?”
—————————–

No, just a bad attempt at being “funny” somewhat. Did not mean it to be personal or insulting. Sorry if I came across wrong to you or any one else.
lektriktadpole Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 11:10 am

Lyle doesn’t deserve a Volt test ride. He deserves a Volt. Let’s see him get job 1.
Young Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 11:13 am

Interview with Stan Ovshinsky, about NiMH battery GM once owned:
http://memebox.com/futureblogger/show/1030-stanford-ovshinsky-and-the-future-of-energy-interview-part-1

Quote:
Q: GM said on one of their blogs that the reason they ended the EV 1 program was inadequate batteries.

A: Not true. People talk about batteries now that run electrics 40 miles, are 80 miles. The first one I made for them went 200 miles – the very first one. They had an internal change of policy. That’s their right and they didn’t do it. And then they crushed the cars, as you know.

Q: So, 200 miles is an amazing number

A: Two hundred one, actually. I had an agreement that if I failed they could go on to describe it publicly. Of course they never did describe it publicly. So by the time they put it into production they dropped the mileage somewhat, quite a bit actually, down to about 125 – 150 miles. But, my first runs that were being tested were 201 miles to be exact. But I don’t think we ought to be living in the past with them, they’re trying desperately now to get back into the electric vehicle business.

Q: Why aren’t we hearing more about these high capacity, metal hydride batteries?

A: I think we at ECD we made a mistake of having a joint venture with an oil company, frankly speaking. And I think it’s not a good idea to go into business with somebody whose strategies would put you out of business, rather than building the business.

Q: So it’s your opinion that Cobasys is preventing other people from making it for that reason? [Background: Cobasys, a joint venture at various times between Chevron/Texaco, GM, & Ovshinsky Conversion Devices, holds the patents on NiMH batteries for electric vehicles, for example, the Toyota RAV 4 EV. Current Rav 4 EV owners are looking to replace their existing battery packs because they are at their end of life, but can’t, because Cobasys will not manufacture them. Cobasys has actually sued Panasonic to prevent them from from manufacturing the batteries, leading to widespread criticism in the electric vehicle community that an oil company has co-opted their competition. See Wikipedia entry on Cobasys for details.]

A: Cobasys is not preventing anybody. Cobasys just needs an infusion of cash. It builds a great battery. If I had had my way—and if people in the industry had listened—I had two next generation batteries, one under test that was doing very well and one being developed—would have made them not taking the chances that they are now with lithium. But I invented the batteries and I have no ownership in any case, anymore . But I would’ve liked to and will probably will in the future…I would rather be a resource to General Motors . I’m not trying to be a critic.
Zen Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 11:19 am

#51 Thomb – A bit touchy this morning, aren’t you?

Oh right, you’re always like that ! Sorry

It must grate on your nerves to have to wait, and wait, and wait, and wait for a Volt that Jay Leno, his Hollywood friends, and the politically-well connected will get a chance to buy before you do. Don’t worry, be happy.
Blarney Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 11:25 am

Jay is also a huge Telsa supporter.

Here’s a great video of him driving his roadster:

http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/video_player.shtml?vid=229378
LauraM Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 11:27 am

#47 ccombs

I don’t hate Asians. Actually, many of my friends are Asian. (Admittedly, Asian American because those are the people I happen to know.) But I don’t blame ordinary Chinese or Japanese citizens for the actions of their governments or their companies. Just like I hope that people won’t blame me, as an American, for Bush’s actions, or for Microsoft’s, or Enron.

I also don’t blame Toyota, Honda, etc. for GM’s problems. I do think that the Japanese government has manipulated its currency, home markets, and provided R&D support in such a way that creates an uneven playing field. And, the US government has also handed them numerous advantages in the form of a)support for the unions, b) a pension guarantee fund that gave the union workers no incentive to see that GM actually survives to pay those pensions, c)no help with healthcare, and d) allowing the foreign automakers to use non-union workforces.

But I don’t blame the foreign automakers for taking advantage of all the advantages they were handed. I would have done the same thing in their place. (And so would GM, Ford, and basically any other company in the world.) And, due to the Union created legacy issues, GM, Ford, and Chrysler might have gone bankrupt even if no foreign automaker ever entered the US market. Although it probably would have taken much longer to happen–even if there were no expansion into any other markets. They don’t make enough in any of other countries to compensate them for the lost revenue in the US market.

I also think Toyota and Honda would have been successful in the US market even without those advantages. GM, Ford, and Chrysler, needed the shaking up that they provided. But the unequal playing field made it impossible for Detriot to turn itself around. And that has a destructive impact on the entire US economy. For that, I blame the US government.

I do have a major problem with the Chinese government because of human rights issues, and their lack of safety controls. And their currency manipulation dwarfs anything done by Japan. But, since they haven’t gotten into the North American car market yet, they are basically irrelevant when it comes to GM’s current condition.
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 11:36 am

#57 LauraM

Could not have said it any better myself. Thanks!
CaptJackSparrow Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 11:37 am

Hey guys, Off topic but here’s a new EV from EV Innovations called the “Wave”…

http://www.evinnovations.com/

You have to wait for the video to load but there’s no data yet other than the following…

it’s reportedly able to hit a top speed of 80 mph with a range of 170 miles per charge. Again, the reported asking price of $34,900 sounds too good to be true. Deliveries are scheduled for “sometime in 2010.”

Sounds too good to be true? Maybe. I’ll keep my eye on this Aptera rip off. If it is priced as so WITH the batteries and it does come out in 2010, early 2010, then I’m flying out there for a test drive. It has the speed I need and more than enough for commute for a week and a half per charge. No range anxiety here because I understand the purpose of the BEV I want to buy.

I wonder what the 0 – 60 is?
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 11:47 am

#55 Zen

“Oh right, you’re always like that ! Sorry ”
I don’t get it.

“It must grate on your nerves to have to wait, and wait, and wait, and wait for a Volt that Jay Leno, his Hollywood friends, and the politically-well connected will get a chance to buy before you do. Don’t worry, be happy.”

I’m at peace (Zen?) with it; that is the way of the world. I’ll get mine when my time comes. I’ll get Gen 2 or 3. That won’t be a bad car for the money.
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 11:50 am

#57 LauraM

I assume you are female. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but It seems strange to have a female on this (nerd) blog. Your comments benefit our discussion. Thanks for being here.
k-dawg Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 11:55 am

Capt

Just get the sports car instead….

“EVII’s other proud achievement, the breathtaking Inizio EVS sports car, will also be in attendance at the international show in New York. With top speeds up to 170 mph, acceleration from 0-60 in about 4 seconds and drive ranges up to 200 miles, this beauty will understandably be turning heads.”
CaptJackSparrow Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 12:03 pm

@k-dawg 62
“Just get the sports car instead….”

Aw man, I don’t have enough aluminum cans or plastic bottles to recycle for that car. It’s more than the Tesla Roadster. Too unpracticle for me and more important “Cost Prohibitive”.
TALLPALL Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 12:16 pm

**** Only 600 days to go ****

Woo-hoo…..
hayley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 12:21 pm

@#47 ccombs

LEEHOM!!! So off topic but so good.

I’m starting to like Jay Leno more every day because of these articles.
BobS Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 12:24 pm

#21 Arch asked “OK Where is the Volt?” The X-prize will go to whoever can pass “a rigorous long distance stage competition and can exceed 100 MPG equivalent fuel economy (MPGe)”. A 100 mile trip in the Volt might consume only a little over a gallon for close to 100 mpg but past that the MPG goes down. I’m not sure what constitutes a long distance in this competition but I’ll bet it is more than 100 miles before any type of refueling.
StevePA Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

#57 LauraM
#58 N Riley
#61 ThombDbhomb

Agree all.

LauraM – ever the voice of balance / reason.
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

#67 StevePA

“LauraM – ever the voice of balance / reason.”
—————————

Hey! I thought that was Statik’s title. Where is that guy today? Probably at the New York Auto Show. Along with several other frequent posters on this site.
Jim I Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 1:05 pm

Tag #36: You have people??????

john1701a #7 & #49: From your posts, I kind of get the feeling that you really want a Volt, but only if it has a Toyota badge on it….. But don’t worry, by 2015 or so, big T will have bought a Volt, copied it, and have it for sale. I guess we should have a naming contest for their car. Here is my entry: ToyVolta

Note to Fritz: It is time to let Lyle have a test ride!
DonC Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

#35 Tagamet – That’s a good point. Along the same lines, GM also gave the PTF members a test drive as well. That would probably be at least as good an indication. But yes, your point that GM must be very confident is well taken. (Note: I’m shocked about your Leno problem. His people always call my people back right away. LOL).

#34 N. Riley says “I just saw a poll shown on Fox News (I don’t remember who did the poll) that showed 54% of the respondents would still buy a car from a manufacturer in bankruptcy.”

A lot depends on how the question is phrased. Fox sometimes uses Rasumssen which is a pretty good polling group. It tends to favor the Fox viewpoint a bit but not a whole lot. However, the poll argues strongly in favor of avoiding a bankruptcy. The headline stated the result positively, which is that 54% say they would consider buying a car from a bankrupt company. But that means 46% say they wouldn’t. That is too much of the potential market to lose. If GM lost half its market it would be cooked.

#47 ccombs – Given the announcement of the day about the infiltration of the grid the remark doesn’t seem so extreme. Or you may be right. Hard to say.

#22 nasaman – Good idea. We’re discovering your sense of humor!
john1701a Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 1:17 pm

I’ve been pushing electrification since 2000, seeking out paths that will bring it to as many people as affordably as possible as quickly as possible.

That’s why I keep pushing for a more realistic configuration of Volt first.
Jim from Colorado Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

Leno is big supporter of electric cars; his Baker, his Tesla test drive and letting Tom Hanks come on his show and talk about his electric Rav 4. It can only help educate the public if Leno talks about the Volt on his show.

That being said I still can’t understand while Lyle is being slighted by GM when it comes to a test drive. Lyle represents the biggest group of supporters for the Volt. The amount of interest this website has drummed up for the Volt is unprecedented in automotive history. Hopefully Fritz won’t make the same mistake as his predecessor and invite Lyle for a test drive immediately.
#54 Young posted
Interview with Stan Ovshinsky, about NiMH battery GM once owned:
http://memebox.com/futureblogger/show/1030-stanford-ovshinsky-and-the-future-of-energy-interview-part-1
This is a must read and see. Not because it happened in the past but because it is still going on. Right now Mercedes is suing Cobays for restraint of trade. The article listed below alleges that Cobays was supposed to make the batteries for their new Hybrid but couldn’t follow thru for lack of operating capital from their parent company Chevron. Here is link about the lawsuit:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/08/03/chevron-drains-battery-planned-for-mercedes-ml-450-hybrid-merce/

These batteries could have been assembled in Michigan providing jobs for American workers. Instead Mercedes had to go somewhere else for batteries. Here is a link for the Mercedes Hybrid; http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/08/new-york-2009-mercedes-benz-ml-450-hybrid-can-go-34-mph-on-batt/
In 1996 the Solectria Sunrise was able to go three hundred miles on a charge using Ovonic’s batteries. Now thirteen years later industry is struggling to go that far with the new lithium battery technology. http://www.prnewswire.com/cgibin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/10-24-97/344686&EDATE=
Even if you believe that that Nickel Metal Hydride technology is an obsolete dead horse we all need to follow this case and educate ourselves to make sure a large corporation is not able to stifle a promising technology again. It must be a bitter disappointment to Mr. Ovshinsky that his wonderful invention was artificially and some allege illegally restrained before it could reach its full potential.
Stanford Ovshinsky has not just been involved in the creation of the NIMH battery but has also contributed to thin film solar, hydrogen storage and the creation of the materials that have facilitated computer memory and display. His life has been dedicated to advancing the human condition. HE has been compared to Edison as an inventor. If anybody deserves the Presidential Medal of Freedom it’s Stanford Ovshinsky.
Lyle needs a ride and Ovshinsky needs a medal.
DonC Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 1:25 pm

#57 LauraM

Conspicuously absent from your list of why the Detroit automakers have not competed well in the auto segment are good designs and reliable cars. The fact is that Toyota and Honda have turned out more reliable cars because that was a priority. GM (mis)spent a billion on the Hummer rather than developing something like the Prius, and it wasted billions more coming up with “silver bullets” like Saturn and robotics rather than simply concentrating on having its factories turn out higher quality and better designed vehicles.

If you want to know why GM has problems just look at the Cimarron or the Aztec. Granted it appears to have learned some lessons, but the fact is that this legacy lives on.
LauraM Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 1:35 pm

#61 ThombDbhomb/ #68 StevePA / #58 N Riley

I am female actually. And I’m an economist, not an engineer, so I don’t have much to contribute to the battery discussions. But I’ve learned a lot from all of the dicussions. So thank you everyone for your comments. I appreciate it.

And since I haven’t said it before–thank you Lyle for providing the forum. And for everything you’ve done to promote the Volt and the electric car. If we get our Volts (or any electric car), we have you to thank.
DonC Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 1:49 pm

#71 john1710a says “That’s why I keep pushing for a more realistic configuration of Volt first.”

I come out completely differently on this issue. The Volt is new technology, and that new technology is going to cost a lot. There is a lot more cost than simply a large battery, and these costs won’t be affected whether the battery pack is 16 kWh or 8 kWh. Given this, it makes more sense to add the “feature” — aka the 40 mile range — than it would to take out the feature and save a few thousand dollars. IOW the added feature will more than pay for itself in a higher sales price.

Down the road this may change.

In this regard, the idea put forth by Plug-In America, which is to relax the 10 year warranty on the battery, is well worth considering. That would make the Volt considerably less expensive without having the car lose its charm.
RB Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 1:50 pm

#57 Zen said
It must grate on your nerves to have to wait, and wait, and wait, and wait for a Volt that Jay Leno, his Hollywood friends, and the politically-well connected will get a chance to buy before you do. Don’t worry, be happy.
========================================

From a purely analytical point of view, I don’t think it is good marketing to whip up mass market interest before one has anything to sell. Celebrity marketing tends to reach a very wide audience and create a strongly felt but transient interest. Good marketing sets up a plan to take the money while interest is strong (as was done with the Nintendo Wii) and will be done with the Honda Insight.

However, though you didn’t direct this comment to me, I recognize myself in it. GM’s embrace of Leno (really his TV audience) is indeed something that does grate on my nerves, as you likely noticed from my comments above. No doubt the right thing for me to do is to move on to other interests and let GM, Volt and the celebrity crowd have their own party. Indeed there are a lot more of them than there are of us.
John Davis Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 1:56 pm

Jay Leno totally ROCKS!

RT
http://www.anon-tools.cz.tc
LauraM Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:02 pm

#72 DonC

I agree Detroit management made a lot of mistakes in the 70s/80s/90s. That’s what happens when you have a monopoly. That’s why I think that the domestic market needed the competition from Toyota and Honda. And they would have been successful even on a level playing field.

However, the many advantages given them by the Japanese and US governments, as well as the UAW rendered it impossible for Detroit to pull off a turnaround. And I think that’s a problem. I just don’t believe that every single US automaker over the past 30 years is somehow incompetant. There is a reason they can compete well everywhere but the US.

More importantly–I think the American economy needs a US auto industry. And, while I’m glad that Ford seems to be holding it together, one isn’t enough. We need both GM and Ford. If I thought Chrysler could be saved, I’d be all for helping them out too.
CDAVIS Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

______________________________________________________
#64 TALLPALL Said:
“Only 600 days to go Woo-hoo.”
————————–

100 days chunks are indeed a good timescale to celebrate the impending VOLT Launch.

As a means of expressing support for this site and every member of the VOLTEC Team (except Britta Gross…just kidding Britta…I’m sure you also work hard educating people what to do with that plug), I invite my fellow VOLTEC Heads today (and each subsequent 100 day mark) to post a simple high-five:

Here it goes for me:

600 DAYS VOLT NPNS!
______________________________________________________
Electric Cars + Nuclear Energy = American Energy Independence!
______________________________________________________
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:24 pm

#77 LauraM

Again, I agree with what you said. You have good, strong opinions and you should continue expressing them on this or any other site. Don’t let some of these ruffians (and I don’t have anyone in mind) get on your nerves.
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:25 pm

#78 CDAVIS

Ditto for me, too.
JonesK Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:29 pm

600!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tagamet Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:30 pm

Jim I
What, you mean you don’t have people???

DonC

Methinks that either you have really great people, or I need to get some of your meds (g)
Be well,
Tag
EV Gringo Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:34 pm

.
.
600 till NPNS!
.
.
nasaman Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

77 LauraM……..
============================================================================
Let me add my appreciation for your contributions. You always bring balanced, level-headed thinking (as well as the expertise of an economist) to this forum and I’ve enjoyed and learned from your comments for a long time. Keep it up!
k-dawg Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

Don C,

I think GM made $ on the Hummers until gas hit $5/gallon and volume went away.
steveland Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:41 pm

Jay Leno for GM president/CEO!
Bob G Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:44 pm

#72 DonC Says, “… Conspicuously absent from your list of why the Detroit automakers have not competed well in the auto segment are good designs and reliable cars.”

A protected domestic market, subsidy money, cheap health care, and lax environmental, labor, and intellectual property laws have given that advantage to the Japanese manufacturers. When you have little cost pressure, you can afford to use conservative designs to ensure reliability. When you have tax grants (not loans), you can afford to develop new technology (e.g., Prius). When imports are effectively banned, you can use your protected domestic market as a beta test facility.

If the “free trade” evangelists would read past chapter 1 in their Econ 101 book, they would see that their idealized view of world economics is overly simplistic. There are hidden costs, externalities, and protectionism that distort markets.

Pretending that these things do not exist has led us to where we are, with American industry (and the middle class) devastated, and grotesque trade surpluses by our trading partners.
Bill Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:48 pm

600!

see yah soon at 500.

Bye Bye Gas Stations!
http://www.thehammer.ca/content/2004/0530/gas_prices.html
CDAVIS Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 2:58 pm

_____________________________________________________
#88 Bill

———–
Very funny link. Thanks!
______________________________________________________
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

#87 Bob G

Open borders and free trade unfortunately has led to a tremendous loss in American jobs, large trade deficits and unfair trade barriers. When the U.S. enters into a free trade agreement with another country, it ends up being primarily a one way street where that country ships untold goods into our markets while U.S. companies are limited or barred from shipping into their countries (ie: Japan, Inc). It seems our trade negotiators are dumb bunnies who don’t know a damn thing about fair and equal trade policies and enforcement measures to insure future adherence. I don’t look for it to change with the current administration. Same people being touted for positions of leadership as was in control during most of the 90’s when many free trade policies were put into place.
Tagamet Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 3:02 pm

Fritz is on Cavuto right now
Jackson Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

****THREAD JACK****

kgurnsey, if you’re here, check this out:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090406102049.htm

Dave G, statik if you’re here, do not check it out!!! (You’ve been warned).

AAAAAAAAAAA!!! WHAT did I say? You just had to peek, didn’t you? Okay, now look down at the related links, and you’ll see this is the fourth item on this subject in just a few months.

/lots of research left to do …

****THREAD JACK ENDS****
Tagamet Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 3:11 pm

He had an opening to bring up the Volt, but didn’t, and he’s awfully slippery.
Be well,
Tag
Zach Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 3:12 pm

Some of you guys sound like the UAW.

“We need Lyle to drive the Volt mule right now, or we should shut the site down!!”

Come on… lol

That’s my take on how the UAW works, in case anyone was wondering.
k-dawg Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 3:15 pm

Since were on free trade. Something that angers me is that one of few products the US has left, is our intellectual property. Unfortunately that is one of the easiest things to steal. How much software, music, movies, engineerng designs, etc.. do foriegn countries steal from the US everyday?
Tagamet Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

Did anyone hear of the MIT battery tech that uses an engineered virus to in effect grow the battery? It’s already able to do 100 recharges. No real data on energy density, but they are talking electric vehicles and a dramatic decrease in cost.
And now back to “Jay and the Protectionists” – a 60’s rock group, I think.
Be well,
Tag
k-dawg Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

Tag – yeah, that’s been posted here a few times over the last week.. interesting stuff.
Jackson Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 3:40 pm

Tagamet (#96):

We hear a lot about the promise of nanomaterials (this is what my link was about in #92, generally speaking), but one of the greatest barriers to their actual appearance in the marketplace is a missing technology for manufacturing them in bulk. A lot of research is going on right now in harnessing DNA, not just microbes, in assembly of nanoparticles (which might come ultimately to squirting out continuous rolls of super-nano-fabulistic-expedited-notions).

I think “Jay Leno and the Protectionists” were from the 80’s.
Jim I Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 3:51 pm

Tag #82 Says: “What, you mean you don’t have people???”

We aren’t allowed to have people in Youngstown, OH……

Tag #96 Says: “And now back to “Jay and the Protectionists” – a 60’s rock group, I think.”

Didn’t they write the theme song for “Who Killed The Electric Car”?

Oh man, I am so sorry to have brought that one back up!!!
statik Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 3:54 pm

****THREAD JACK****

kgurnsey, if you’re here, check this out:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090406102049.htm

Dave G, statik if you’re here, do not check it out!!! (You’ve been warned).

AAAAAAAAAAA!!! WHAT did I say? You just had to peek, didn’t you? Okay, now look down at the related links, and you’ll see this is the fourth item on this subject in just a few months.

/lots of research left to do …

****THREAD JACK ENDS****
================================

You bring me out of my day-long lurking bliss

I looked at the release…but didn’t avert my eyes quick enough and found myself reading about another ‘alternative’ article about hydrogen.

/threw up in my mouth a little bit
statik Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 3:57 pm

I guess I here now, I will comment on the article itself:

I have no problem with a guy like Jay Leno being a early test driver (and first non ‘reporter’) to give it ago. It would annoy me more if it was Miley Cyrus, or whoever the jackass of the week is that got voted off of American Idol.

Jay Leno is a car guy, like him or hate him, he certainly promotes the tech and gives it exposure. The Volt (and GM) can use all the mainstream eyes it can right now.
Jim I Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

john1701a #71 Says: “That’s why I keep pushing for a more realistic configuration of Volt first.”

Although you may only need a 10 mile AER for your particular driving needs and you have a particular price point as a ceiling, I think there is a much larger group of people that needs an all electric range of 40 miles. And in the beginning, it will be more expensive. But this is the vehicle GM said they are going to deliver first. I think we should let that happen. Assuming that the Volt actually works as promised, I think that in a very short period of time, you will see many variants being made available from many different manufacturers, and with that competition, will come lower pricing.

Me personally? I would like to be able to purchase one of the first 10K Volts produced in 2010/2011. But I doubt seriously that Youngstown, OH is high on the GM initial allotment of vehicles chart, so I guess I will be in line for a Gen-2 model…
Jay Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 4:01 pm

#59 CaptJackSparrow

Here is a screen capture of the Wave:
http://www.envirocarlist.com/wave.jpg

from the video:
http://www.evinnovations.com/
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 4:03 pm

#92 Jackson

Where U gonna get your hydrogen?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/04/090406102555.htm
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 4:04 pm

Statik,

About time you “showed” up today. Jay Leno is a great person to have drive the Volt mule. No doubt about it, but I am a little “pissed” that Lyle has not had a chance to drive one. And I don’t believe for a moment that Lyle has already gotten to drive one and was told he could not discuss it. Doesn’t make any sense – unless the car bombed while Lyle was driving it and he agreed not to give GM the bad press they would deserve. How about it, GM? Lyle?

How about you, Statik? Have you driven it yet and told to keep your mouth shut about it? Nah! GM knows it would not do any good to tell you to keep quiet.
statik Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

#105 N Riley said:

Statik,

About time you “showed” up today. Jay Leno is a great person to have drive the Volt mule. No doubt about it, but I am a little “pissed” that Lyle has not had a chance to drive one. And I don’t believe for a moment that Lyle has already gotten to drive one and was told he could not discuss it. Doesn’t make any sense – unless the car bombed while Lyle was driving it and he agreed not to give GM the bad press they would deserve. How about it, GM? Lyle?

How about you, Statik? Have you driven it yet and told to keep your mouth shut about it? Nah! GM knows it would not do any good to tell you to keep quiet.
==================================

What are the odds of GM even letting me on a list, or even selling me one at all…let alone getting to drive a pre-production anything? lol

As for me keeping my mouth shut, you wouldn’t believe the amount of stuff I have refrained from posting…count your blessings.
statik Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 4:21 pm

I don’t think Lyle should get a test drive at all, he totally doesn’t deserve one, and I think GM is 100% right to keep him the heck away from it and in the dark. I would give all the unemployed people in Michigan a test drive before him.

But definitely keep keep giving Lyle those “first hand reports” of other people testing the Volt GM. That is both cruel…and awesome!

/can’t stand to see so many people agreeing on something
//contrarian +1
N Riley Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 4:22 pm

Sounds about right, Statik. Have a good weekend.
Witt Sullivan Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 4:23 pm

I remember years ago when Leno was still a guest host on The Tonight Show, they had Ed Begley, Jr. on and he was talking about the GM Impact. Leno was all over it, making fun of the car’s name, but in his defense, everyone did. When he came off as a douche was when he criticized batteries as being too dangerous because they could spill in an accident. He didn’t even give Begley a chance to rebutt by saying the batteries were sealed, like laptop batteries. Now Leno is a super fan of electric cars? The technology hasn’t changed a whole lot since then, just a whole bunch of incremental increases of performance, more efficient components, and manufacturing techniques. Yes, I know they’re a LOT more efficient and such, the same could be said about computers, the core technology is still the same, they just have more efficient components.
jeffhre Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 4:39 pm

Dave G., Statik.

I suppose this wonderful new nanomaterial jumps off of trees with a full load of hydrogen ready for propulsion duty?

The trouble that hydrogen fuel cell advocates don’t see is that oil and gas literally jump out of the ground and into pipelines to compete with any proposed hydrogen systems. When this process slows they’ll inject water until a bit more jumps into the pipes. It’s only when that process stops that the debate about efficient energy carriers even starts. I’m done, hope nobody was reading, as Tag would say, Be well. NPNS.
jeffhre Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 4:43 pm

Statik 107

Lyle is a contrarian also, “For those of you who wonder if and when I will have a chance to drive the mule, don’t sweat it, every dog has his day.” Lyle’s Post

Does that mean he agrees or disagrees with you?
zipdrive Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 4:50 pm

GM needs Leno’s exposure for sure. But Lyle works on this site EVERY DAY!

Come on GM. Give Lyle a turn at the wheel.
statik Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 4:59 pm

A couple threads ago, we were talking about full LED headlights…specifically if the Insight made it to production with them…and would the Volt have that as a standard feature and/or option.

The answer of course (to anyone who could look at a photo) was the Insight had dropped the LEDs. We speculated it was because of the price, especially since only the Lexus 600h, Audi R8 and Cadillace Premium Platnum Escalade Hybrid (not making that name up) had them.

Anywhoo… on Honda’s website they just put up a ditty on ‘why no LEDs’ (and they talk about why the moonroof got dropped as well)”
——
“We’ve had some questions about why we’re not currently offering the Insight with a moonroof, and also about where those cool LED lights went that we featured on the concept vehicle.

There’s a very good reason why these features were not included on the 2010 Insight. In fact, there are two good reasons: expense and efficiency. Both the moonroof and the LED lights, though very cool, add significantly to the cost of the vehicle. The weight of the moonroof can also reduce the vehicle’s fuel efficiency.

After weighing the customer benefits, cost implications and the vehicle’s overall purpose, we decided not to offer LED headlights or a moonroof. Ultimately, the Insight is about affordability and efficiency, so these features didn’t make the cut this time around.

Thanks for your interest!

—Dave Terebessey
(Senior Product Planner)

http://automobiles.honda.com/insight-hybrid/latest-insight.aspx?ArticleID=161
—————-
As FYI, it is €3,590 option in the UK (about $5,300USD) on the R8 for the full LED upgrade. So back around to the topic of the site…I would say the Volt is unlikely to have full LEDs.
statik Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 5:09 pm

This one is for Nasaman, because I know he loves those ‘new tech’ Saturn Vue articles (sorry its not a PHEV one):
———–
According to Straightline, General Motors plans to drop its 2-Mode hybrid powertrain in the new Cadillac SRX at some unspecified date in the not-too distant future. GM had been planning to put its 2-Mode system in the latest Saturn Vue sometime this year, but that vehicle’s status in the struggling automaker’s lineup is most definitely in flux….

Because the new Cadillac SRX’s platform differs somewhat from the one underpinning the Chevy Equinox and Saturn Vue, it’s likely that a little extra engineering work will be required to make all the pieces fit and play together nicely. In any case, we would expect a similar package as what has been planned for the Vue, namely a direct-injected 3.6L V6 engine mated up with an automatic transmission featuring twin 55kW electric motors powered by a 300V battery.

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/04/08/gm-plans-to-offer-2-mode-powertrain-in-cadillac-srx/
statik Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

Off interest (at least probably to Nasaman, as he loves those ‘new tech’ Vues…sorry it is not a PHEW article):

According to Straightline, General Motors plans to drop its 2-Mode hybrid powertrain in the new Cadillac SRX at some unspecified date in the not-too distant future. GM had been planning to put its 2-Mode system in the latest Saturn Vue sometime this year, but that vehicle’s status in the struggling automaker’s lineup is most definitely in flux…

Because the new Cadillac SRX’s platform differs somewhat from the one underpinning the Chevy Equinox and Saturn Vue, it’s likely that a little extra engineering work will be required to make all the pieces fit and play together nicely. In any case, we would expect a similar package as what has been planned for the Vue, namely a direct-injected 3.6L V6 engine mated up with an automatic transmission featuring twin 55kW electric motors powered by a 300V battery.

…can’t link to source, it gets flagged as spam
statik Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 5:11 pm

EDIT: Slow delay on a post…and I didn’t realize it then went into moderation, lol

/nothing to see here…move along, lol

Side note: Is it just me, or does that ‘GM VP of giving free rides to celebrities’ look a lot like a older Kevin Eubanks (Jay’s bandleader on the Tonight Show)

http://assets.mog.com/pictures/wikipedia/284610/Kevineubanks.jpg
old man Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 5:12 pm

#’s 85,90,95

Agreed!! I don’t know how to get our citizens to give U S made products another chance or for that matter how to get consumer distorts to actually test products and then give honest reports. I have found in my many years that if I want something to be bad it will be and of course the opposite is also true.
Jeff Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 5:19 pm

The best advertisement…word of mouth…it costs nothing and less biased than paid/self promotion. Just build it already.

I know Jay was performing for “free”…but I’m sure GM has advertised on his TV show. Somehow I think that Lyle would give a more unbiased review.
CDAVIS Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 5:34 pm

______________________________________________________
How about a GM Wearable Chariot (along with the PUMA)?:

The Werable Chariot:
http://i.gizmodo.com/5203856/chariot-wearable-robot-vehicle-turns-you-into-a-cyborg-from-the-waist-down
______________________________________________________
Herm Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 5:41 pm

The generation from the 70-90s has to pass on, they got burned bad by the Detroit 3 and now will only buy foreign cars.. the young people of today are the hope.. unfortunately they are buying small hip cars from foreign companies also.

Quality and cost is most important.. and if something breaks fix it and dont nickle&dime the customer to death.

…………………….

#114 old man Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 5:12 pm
#’s 85,90,95
Agreed!! I don’t know how to get our citizens to give U S made products another chance or for that matter how to get consumer distorts to actually test products and then give honest reports.
Tagamet Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 5:59 pm

Personally, I think statik (and I) would make a great team of “critical advisers” for the Volt. They could really count on statik to be fair, but critical, and they could count on me to help them after dealing with statik (g). Maybe we could do a series of commercials like the PC and Mac series. We might need a poll to see who plays whom (Nerdy Guy vs Artsy Guy). I’m sure I’d fit the latter, simply because of my good looks, but I can be dopic and the Fool, too.
Be well,
Tag
avatar Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 6:00 pm

Loss of trust is the big problem for GM, Ford, and Chrysler.

GM forgot their own trademark “Mark of Excellence”.

The entire country should commit to these 3 words and the market will take care of itself. Are you listening AIG?
o.jeff Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 7:03 pm

Why bother driving a mule now? Aren’t the first true Volts due to be assembled in just a matter of weeks? It would obviously be far more interesting to drive one of these vehicles as opposed to a mule.
Timaaayyy!!! Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 7:44 pm

“Leno had previously noted ‘I think you’ll find that the Volt will be a superior package to the Prius’”

gotta be a joke in there somewhere
Arch Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 8:58 pm

This could could throw an interesting kink in things.

http://www.redherring.com/Home/26001

Take Care
Arch
Tagamet Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 9:34 pm

Arch,
Is that really a red herring? If not, so much for drag coefficient.
Be well,
Tag
Jackson Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 9:50 pm

statik (#101):

“/threw up in my mouth a little bit”

LOL

ThombDbhomb (#105):

“Where U gonna get your hydrogen?”

Hey, it’s not my hydrogen. You leave my hydrogen out of this, OKAY?

I realize that the H word has some emotional freight here, so it might be hard for some to understand; but just because I don’t repudiate it with all due and consistent vigor, it doesn’t follow that I am a Hydro-nazi and enemy of all life on Earth.

As I’ve put it, there are 3 major barriers to wide-scale acceptance of Hydrogen for cars:

1) The fuel cell itself (mainly, it’s expense)

2) The problem of safely and effectively storing the gas on board

3) Where do you get / how do you make / distribute the Hydrogen.

Until recently, all 3 were suitable barriers; but recent research into making fuel cells with less platinum may lower their costs, and now the on-board storage problem is getting credible results in the area of high-surface-area, low-pressure absorbtion.

You may still derive much comfort from point number 3, as I don’t see anything yet which can begin to meaningfully address this in less than 50 years. But then again, points 1 and 2 quite recently seemed as comfortably distant.

The point of fuel cell demonstration projects being used as a red herring is a valid one, but if we’re going to be ruled by history, we might as well dismiss Volt because of the EV1 debacle. Whatever the history, the fuel cell demonstrators have been the only on-road, all-State, highway-capable electric-drive cars since EV1, and have thus made some contribution to the battery-enabled electrics we talk about now. “That was then and this is now” may one day apply to hydrogen in cars, as well; depending on what happens in the near future.

I’ll remember to add your name to the “warning, do not click this” message the next time I dig something up for the free (hydrogen) thinkers.
DonC Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 9:55 pm

#78 Laura M says “However, the many advantages given them by the Japanese and US governments, as well as the UAW rendered it impossible for Detroit to pull off a turnaround.”

The numbers don’t support this assertion. GM has to sell its vehicles for roughly $2500 less than a competing Honda or Toyota. Why? Because the resale value of the GM vehicles is lower. Why? Because the quality of the vehicles are lower.

At the same time the union “bogey” for each vehicle, identified as the reason for GM’s financial problems, is roughly $500.

If GM had similar quality to Honda and Toyota it could sell each vehicle for $2500. If you assume that GM had a 25% NA market share and annual sales were 16M vehicles, that means that had GM matched Toyota and Honda quality it would have made roughly $10B more per year. That is a lot of money.

Moreover, the problem with saying that government action “prevented Detroit” from turning things around is that you have to explain Ford. Granted Ford may have gotten lucky when it mortgaged its assets in 2006, but it did so in order to finance a turnaround which consisted of limiting brands, nameplates, and dealers, and developing more competitive passenger cars so it was not so dependent on truck and SUV sales. All these things worked, and all these things would have worked for GM had it chosen to take a different direction.

In fact, rather than hindering Detroit, it appears that Washington has bent over backwards to protect it. From the VER, used by the Detroit manufacturers to keep market share, to the recent tax incentives for EVs that are custom designed to aid GM, Detroit has used its political connections to good advantage. it’s more than held its own on the political front. (Dingell was after all married to a lobbyist for GM who was a member of the family which founded GM — Toyota or Honda would be so lucky to have connections like that).

Rather than being a victim of circumstances beyond its control, GM has been a huge bureaucratic nightmare with less than stellar management. These are not good things when trying to compete in markets with an increasing number of entrants, all of which have high fixed but declining marginal costs.
statik Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:03 pm

#128 Jackson said:

I realize that the H word has some emotional freight here, so it might be hard for some to understand; but just because I don’t repudiate it with all due and consistent vigor, it doesn’t follow that I am a Hydro-nazi and enemy of all life on Earth.

As I’ve put it, there are 3 major barriers to wide-scale acceptance of Hydrogen for cars:

1) The fuel cell itself (mainly, it’s expense)

2) The problem of safely and effectively storing the gas on board

3) Where do you get / how do you make / distribute the Hydrogen.

Until recently, all 3 were suitable barriers; but recent research into making fuel cells with less platinum may lower their costs, and now the on-board storage problem is getting credible results in the area of high-surface-area, low-pressure absorbtion.

You may still derive much comfort from point number 3, as I don’t see anything yet which can begin to meaningfully address this in less than 50 years. But then again, points 1 and 2 quite recently seemed as comfortably distant.

The point of fuel cell demonstration projects being used as a red herring is a valid one, but if we’re going to be ruled by history, we might as well dismiss Volt because of the EV1 debacle. Whatever the history, the fuel cell demonstrators have been the only on-road, all-State, highway-capable electric-drive cars since EV1, and have thus made some contribution to the battery-enabled electrics we talk about now. “That was then and this is now” may one day apply to hydrogen in cars, as well; depending on what happens in the near future.

I’ll remember to add your name to the “warning, do not click this” message the next time I dig something up for the free (hydrogen) thinkers.
========================

La la la la….I can’t hear you….la la la
statik Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:14 pm

Side note (long in the tooth thread jack):

Apparently there are ‘3 bidders’ left for HUMMER:

NEW YORK (Reuters) – Three bidders remain for General Motors Corp’s (NYSE:GM – News) Hummer brand, two sources with knowledge of the matter said on Wednesday, adding that current offers range from $100 million to $200 million in cash, in addition to other commitments.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Three-bidders-left-in-Hummer-rb-14887173.html

So what does GM’s spinmaster have to say?

“We have received several strong bids for the brand and those are in the final stages of review,” GM spokesman Nick Richards said on Wednesday. “We are cautiously optimistic that we will report a favorable outcome to sell the brand in a very short time period.”
—-
You might recall HUMMER being billed as imminent ’sale’ worth a billion dollars or more as part of the now legendary ‘we are going to raise/save $15 billion and we are ok until 2010′ speech Wagoner gave last June. Even as a ‘distressed’ asset, they were still valuing it as high as 700 million in the fall….then maybe 350 by years end.

Even Reuters seems to taunt the GM spinmaster, saying right after his quote, “The details underscore how GM’s ten-month-long effort to unload the unprofitable Hummer brand has run longer than expected, and will yield less than the automaker’s bullish expectations when the process began.”

You know things are bad when Reuters is covering you in pwnsauce. (thats internet lingo…don’t be afraid of it elderly readers)

I’ve always kind of thought it was worth around $1….GM should take whatever they can get and be thankful it, and the dealers that go with it, are gone.
Jackson Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:17 pm

As we say around here, you’re a hoot, statik. I hope we get to meet one day.

Tell ya what I’m a gonna do. I’ll add a 4th barrier.

4) Battery technology will be well established by the time any possible hydrogen revolution can take hold. It will absolutely own the short-range for electrics. This means that any attempt to use hydrogen as a range-extension medium would have to compete with the already accepted batteries for space, weight and expense in the car. Before a case can be made for this, bio-fuels might well be a demonstrated alternative with superior energy density and much simpler storage / distribution solutions (ala Dave G).

How’s that?
Arch Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:22 pm

#125 Tag

I do not have a clue! There is so much BS coming out of GM I just get a kick out of it. If they can get that much mileage out of a Hummer then we have been fed a BIG line of CRAP. JMHO

Take Care
Arch
Tagamet Says:
April 8th, 2009 at 10:26 pm

Thanks, Arch. You got that right. Maybe the larger form factor could just hold one humongous battery (lol)
Be well,
Tag
PS Statik – do you want to be PC or Mac?
koz Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 3:51 am

Statik #107

“What are the odds of GM even letting me on a list, or even selling me one at all…let alone getting to drive a pre-production anything? lol”

Based on GM’s recent letter to GM-Volt.com, it’s quite clear you are on “a” GM list. I’m thinking it’s probably not going to get you a Volt or test drive.

disclaimer for GM: Any mention, direct or otherwise, of GM-Volt.com poster Statik does not mean, infer, or translate any connection or like minded thinking of any kind between myself and said poster.
koz Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 4:02 am

Tagamet #120

“Personally, I think statik (and I) would make a great team of “critical advisers” for the Volt. They could really count on statik to be fair, but critical, and they could count on me to help them after dealing with statik (g). Maybe we could do a series of commercials like the PC and Mac series. We might need a poll to see who plays whom (Nerdy Guy vs Artsy Guy). I’m sure I’d fit the latter, simply because of my good looks, but I can be dopic and the Fool, too.”

Prostitution, even for a cool car, is still illegal in most states.
koz Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 4:22 am

“For those of you who wonder if and when I will have a chance to drive the mule, don’t sweat it, every dog has his day.”

First time I’ve seen Lyle comment on this issue. Maybe the dog now knows when his day will be?
Tagamet Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 6:00 am

koz re prostitution,
If you use that definition, everyone with a job would qualify – exchange of services for remuneration.
“Services” is just one of those interpretable words. I probably wouldn’t engage in sex with statik – even for a “free” Volt (and yes, I said probably (lol)
Be well,
Tag
Jim I Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 6:53 am

If statik is on the “BAD” list at GM, then I just want to go on record that I don’t know him, never heard of him, that is my story, and I am sticking with it……

Tag: EEEWWWWWWWW! That visual is hurting my eyes… Now you can’t be PC or MAC. You will have to be linux.
Tagamet Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 7:05 am

Jim I
You may never be quite the same again (g). linux would be more like a transsexual – God doesn’t make a general model like those.
I still think we (statiK and I) could do good commercials though. He’d have a huge graph of data and I’d be handing out daises.
Be well,
Tag
statik Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 7:27 am

#122 Tag said:

Personally, I think statik (and I) would make a great team of “critical advisers” for the Volt. They could really count on statik to be fair, but critical, and they could count on me to help them after dealing with statik (g). Maybe we could do a series of commercials like the PC and Mac series. We might need a poll to see who plays whom (Nerdy Guy vs Artsy Guy). I’m sure I’d fit the latter, simply because of my good looks, but I can be dopic and the Fool, too.
Be well,
Tag
———————
#134 Tag said:

PS Statik – do you want to be PC or Mac?
======================

I was hoping to avoid the question…not keen on being either,lol. Not thrilled with being the pudgey old school guy from PC…and I feel the Apple guy is kinda a a**hat.

They probably would need a therapist however if they me to be a “critical adviser,” seems like everyone who goes to visit the Volt just blows smoke at them, especially the three Ls (LeBeau, Lauer, Leno). I’m sure my criticism would be received by something like, “What do you mean we are not creating the end to Capote’s ‘masterpiece’ Unanswered Prayers here?”

Actually, I wouldn’t have much ‘criticism’ for the Volt (at least from a engineering/design point of view), because it is pointless at this point.

I am going to use history as my guide and assume they don’t plan on soliciting any advice (from anyone but themselves) on fabrication, pricing, execution and rollout until all those decisions are made and it is too late to change them. Just like they did when they all huddled in the dark and tore apart the concept and rebuilt it in the shadows for probably the better part of a year, all the while claiming one thing (‘unmistakeably the Volt’, ‘true to the concept’, etc) but knowing and doing something else….like they are doing now with the production goals, ‘everything is fine-still on track’

Of course, it is their car, they can do whatever they like, thats their prerogative…and naturally it is my prerogative to call them on it, and then mock them as the random internet warrior that I am, lol.
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 8:25 am

#126 Jackson
Dude, you got me all wrong. I’m open to possibilities. My #105 linked to an article titled, “New Way To Split Water Into Hydrogen And Oxygen Developed.” It gives hope for your point number 3.
Jackson Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 8:37 am

As I was writing, I sort of widened things out to the whole “hydrogen is the antichrist” crowd, at large. OK, so I’ll take you off the “do not click” warning.
Jackson Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 8:45 am

Tag (136, 138), you need to see someone, dude.
Koz Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 11:09 am

Jackson #142

Tag is self medicated, legally (can you do that??)
Koz Says:
April 9th, 2009 at 11:13 am

Tagamet #136

I wasn’t thinking of sexual definitions (not that the inevitability is lost on me), rather it was more in the entertainer vain. Kinda like doing Liza Gibbons doing cheesy infomertials.
Michael Robinson Says:
April 10th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

Geez, why is there so much written here about so little? Not
much was said about Jay Leno’s experience. There are no
comments from him. Yet, sure enough, someone has found
a way to sexualize this event and oh never mind.

I support commercialization of the Equinox fuel cell SUV and
the Chevy Volt hydrogen. Come on GM, give us a real electric
car.
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August 16th, 2009 at 11:16 am

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