The Obama administration believes CEO Fritz Henderson represents change for GM. White House economic adviser Austan Goolsbee said GM’s new CEO Fritz Henderson was “considering all the various options to make it a viable plan going forward and to avoid an uncontrolled liquidation,” and that “it’s clear he’s embracing a change of direction and they’re trying to work on a viable plan.”
“The key thing the president is trying to do there is avoid an uncontrolled liquidation of these companies … but at the same time not turn companies into wards of the state that can’t live except for getting an allowance from the government,” the adviser said. “They’ve got to be viable enterprises.”
With at least 5 of the 60 days already gone in which GM has to convince bondholders and the UAW to accept concessions, the fate of a “quick-rinse” bankruptcy cleaving GM into a “bad” liquidated and a “good” surviving company appears increasingly likely.
Former CEO Wagoner had held out against bankruptcy all along claiming it would lead to loss of the company. Henderson however takes a more open-minded view. He said “If we have to resort to bankruptcy then we’re going to do it fast…there are non-traditional ways to do this but it requires a fair amount of force, will and leverage and we have force, will and leverage.”
I took the liberty of emailing Mr. Henderson my and our GM-Volt.com well wishes. I wrote:
Dear Mr Henderson, Just a note of strong support for you from me and the GM-Volt.com community. We wish you well on your monumental challenge, and believe GM will emerge lean mean and green and we will finally get our Volts. Please let me know if there is anything I and my readership can do to help.
And in a move representing change to me, he responded to my email, something Mr. Wagoner had never done. He wrote:
Lyle- thanks very much for your support! Best regards. Fritz
Somehow I have a good feeling about this.
Source (Automotive News) and (Reuters)
This entry was posted on Saturday, April 4th, 2009 at 8:11 am and is filed under Financial, Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Apr 4th, 2009 (8:23 am)Make the first version of Volt affordable for the masses.
Price should be an important priority. The original goal of “nicely under $30,000″ has been lost in the chaos.
Achieving high-volume quickly is important for the new GM that emerges. A niche configuration may be more exciting, but that’s not what will sustain business. Selling lots at a modest profit is the key.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (8:24 am)Best of luck. But I have learned the lesson of “seeing is believing” many many times in my life.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (8:25 am)*crosses fingers*
I hope this works, the careers of a lot of people I know are riding on it.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (8:26 am)ALL RIGHT!
GO FRITZ AND COMPANY!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (8:34 am)… almost makes me as nervous as a Garret Rivas extra point or field goal attempt. Yet, I continue to have faith, and can’t wait to get back to Michigan to help out.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (8:45 am)Fritz is’nt pondering anything, quick bankruptcy has been the plan all along.
Meanwhile Wall Street is given $12.8 Trillion, an amount almost equal to the entire 2008 GDP of the United States.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=armOzfkwtCA4&refer=worldwide
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Apr 4th, 2009 (8:46 am)go fritz go and please avoid bankruptcy. the volt will change the way we live and enough of opec. the future is definitely hyperinflationary and volt like cars which consume less petrol will rock the world. we will show the world who we are. lyle i need to say that we must invest in GM so volt production could be fast.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (8:47 am)GO FRITZ! I believe that GM can come through this “lean, green and mean” as Lyle says. I think that bankruptcy may turn out to be a benefit to GM in getting them stronger concessions from the unions and bond holders – that can mean lower prices for the Volt. I’m still looking forward eagerly to owning one.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (8:52 am)Wow – that is a very good sign.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (8:58 am)Why is the Volt “green” if it is a coal powered car? Or more accurately, it is 50% coal powered and 20% nuclear powered. That’s not very green. The whole green thing is very shaky – let’s admit the primary purpose of the Volt is economic freedom from foreign oil.
Build the nukes and build a new USA.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:24 am)We’ll be burning Green Coal.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:36 am)This would be funny if I weren’t crying…
“The key thing the president is trying to do there is avoid an uncontrolled liquidation of these companies … but at the same time not turn companies into wards of the state that can’t live except for getting an allowance from the government,” the adviser said. “They’ve got to be viable enterprises.”
So Obama and the Liberals Statist central planners (both the democrat-socialists and NeoCon-Fascists) in Congress ignored their Oaths of Office and redistributed $BILLIONS of taxpayer money to failed companies and appointed an board to oversee private companies because he does not have to turn them into “wards of the state”?
Either they don’t’ understand that bankruptcy REORGANIZATION is designed to avoid uncontrolled liquidation in the first place, or they hope that we are too stupid and lazy to resist gov’t takeover of private enterprise.
GM should have been allowed to complete a “quick bankruptcy reorganization” to shed themselves of legacy debt FIRST, but instead Obama and the Congressional traitors decided to steal the power to control private business themselves. They wasted $billions with these moronic bailouts of the Financial and auto industry and they STILL want MORE of the same! These people are idiots who can’t even run a public restroom!
Those “comrades” on this blog who championed the bailouts should be ashamed of themselves for stealing and then wasting so much of other people’s money and credit instead of allowing well-established bankruptcy procedures to fix the problem! A little pain during the reorganization now is a LOT better than the 10-15 YEARS of depression that’s coming once the $Dollar is dropped as the world’s reserve currency.
The Dow will go to around 9,000 this spring & summer before rapidly dropping below 2,000 after the G7 decides to drop the US $Dollar reserve, the Chinese stop buying the hyperinflated US “bailout” currency and unemployment reaches 20%!
Keynesian Economics is for brain dead Socialist FOOLS! Any child knows that you can’t borrow and spend your way out of debt and into prosperity.
GM’s bankruptcy reorganization is as inevitable and the coming US depression!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:40 am)It is not surprising that the White House is pleased. They keep a list of who is their friend. Mr Henderson uses every opportunity to praise the President and praise the auto task force. Mr Henderson is independent minded, no, gracefully compliant, yes. I wish him well.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:45 am)OFF TOPIC but to wild to just let it pass.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/04/090403-virus-battery.html
Take Care
Arch
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:48 am)“…a “quick-rinse” bankruptcy cleaving GM into a “bad” liquidated and a “good” surviving company appears increasingly likely.”
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This phrasing foretells an adventure into unexplored territory.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:49 am)#14 Arch — fascinating link. thanks.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (10:07 am)@ #10 (Shawn Marshall)
You over look the _flexibiliy_ of Energy source that an EV represents. Your figures may be true if I use the current US power grid, however, as I can and will purchase solar cells and or another green source for my house to support my Volt, it _does_ instantly become a green car. Although I admit that my primary purpose in the venture is independence rather than environmental, The Volt _can_ be green. That is a big step.
Also, the current US Power Grid is also becoming more green, and overtime will be more so. The Volt can make use of this Potential green-ness, if you will.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (10:08 am)Quick
email him back and see if you can get a date when the Volt will be out and a price.
You might want to include the number of people on the waiting list and if he ask if he can contact any of them give him my contact info
Tom
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Apr 4th, 2009 (10:41 am)Post says GM emerges “… lean mean and green ..”
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Even better will be a refined car that is available for sale at a competitive price.
Right now green politics is transcendent.
Over time a really good car may have more staying power.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (10:43 am)#10 Shawn
You’re right that presently there’s a lot of coal in the Volt’s “green” fuel… But what I’ve read indicates that running on electricity is about 4 times as efficient as gasoline cars, so even on coal it still somewhat “greener” than any other car.
And, as others have said, as we gain more wind and solar, it will get more and more “green” over time – no other car can make that statement!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (10:51 am)From the article:
Former CEO Wagoner had held out against bankruptcy all along claiming it would lead to loss of the company. Henderson however takes a more open-minded view. He said “If we have to resort to bankruptcy then we’re going to do it fast…there are non-traditional ways to do this but it requires a fair amount of force, will and leverage and we have force, will and leverage.”
…and in a move representing change to me, he responded to my email, something Mr. Wagoner had never done. He wrote:
“Lyle- thanks very much for your support! Best regards. Fritz”
Lyle said, “Somehow I have a good feeling about this.”
==================
I’m going to have to…completely agree, lol.
I’ve been yammering on about the end of Lutz and Wagoner for a long time and have long thought Fritz was the logical person to take the job over. Now it has happened and I think the first week of his reign has shown he is the right guy to lead GM…certainly no one is clamoring for Wagoner back, lol.
We needed to move out of the “BS phase” long ago…and into the “Here is how it is…this is what we need to do phase” Wagoner/Lutz simply could not turn the BS off, they were smooth/cool cats and where too easy to fall for. Whereas Fritz is like a awkward teenager trying to give a oral presentation in front of the class, you can see right through him.
Fritz is a smart guy, the kind of guy that always seems to be the number 2, 3 banana….the guy who does all the dirty work behind the scences, who knows what the company has to do now…and tries to gently nudge the (overpromoted/slight crazy) CEO in right direction, without getting the hellfire put on him.
Now due to some extreme circumstances he finds himself running the show, he can operate unfiltered (although still awkwardly, lol). You can tell he just wants to whatever he can to keep GM going, he is not concerned about his image (or GMs) at all, and thats what people want…straight talk.
It would appear GM survives here, whether it be bailout or GSB. I think he is the right guy to lead them through and out. They only get this one shot. After GM is stood up straight, and the economy stabilizes there will be no ’second chance’ for them.
I don’t know (I doubt) that Fritz is the right guy for fostering innovative ideas, expanding the company or moving them into the future…but I’m pretty confident he is the right man for the job right now, and over the next few years.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (10:52 am)Even if GM must go through a controlled bankruptcy, there will be a very big incentive to price the Volt very aggressively, especially with all the competition that is emerging. I would still invest in the Volt. I would feel that with the backing of the U.S. Government, that’s as good as the FDIC backing my hard earned dollars. It has to all come down to trust.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (11:06 am)#21 statik said about Mr Henderson “Now due to some extreme circumstances he finds himself running the show, he can operate unfiltered”
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That’s actually not the case. Mr Henderson is supervised by his minder from the WH, who attends meetings with him and approves expenditures, and by the GM BOD, the majority of whom now are or will be WH appointees. I hope Mr Henderson can function well as a WH operative (better than the guy at Freddie Mac) and that GM does well with its guidance.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (11:46 am)Lutz w/his pink ties/shirts and Fritz w/his zoot/pimp suits. Who dresses these guys?
Good luck Fritz. Fritz quick rinse bankruptcy = the Fritz Blitz
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Apr 4th, 2009 (11:47 am)#12 cheaper by the dozen
“The Dow will go to around 9,000 this spring & summer before rapidly dropping below 2,000 after the G7 decides to drop the US $Dollar reserve, the Chinese stop buying the hyperinflated US “bailout” currency and unemployment reaches 20%!”
Get out of your little bunker, Timaaayyy!!!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (11:49 am)Frank D (#22) said:
“I would feel that with the backing of the U.S. Government, that’s as good as the FDIC backing my hard earned dollars. It has to all come down to trust.”
Federal obligations exceed world GDP
Does $65.5 trillion terrify anyone yet?
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=88851
Trust in rainbows, fairytails and lollypops…. (politicians, lawyers and bankers)
“There is sucker born every minute.” — P.T. Barnum
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Apr 4th, 2009 (11:55 am)Time to pull your head out of your butt DonC (#25) aka “Timaaayyy” and have the courage to keep all your posts under the same name.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (12:00 pm)Congratulations Lyle on your new direct line to the GM CEO!
#1 john1710a says “Make the first version of Volt affordable for the masses.”
This is one of your consistent themes. The sentiment is understandable but not realistic. When new tech is introduced, the first generation is always over designed in many respects for the simple reason that the designers don’t really know what the weak points will be. Subsequent generations take costs (and quality frankly) out. Smart companies always do it this way and I don’t think GM should break new ground here. Too much is at stake.
Cheaper will be the goal for Gen II. And Gen III may well see the introduction of 20 or even 10 mile ranges, perhaps along with an engine designed for the less demanding function of powering a generator rather than a car. These changes would dramatically cut the cost, possibly making the Volt cost competitive with a a Prius or Insight.
#12 Tim says “The Dow will go to around 9,000 this spring & summer before rapidly dropping below 2,000″
I see we have a regular Cassandra on the board. I’d place a wager with you but I have the feeling that collecting would be difficult. As an alternative, how about this? If the Dow does not go below 2000 by the end of summer you put a plug in it. If it does I’ll put a plug in it.
FWIW if you really believe your Dow 2000 prediction then there are ways to short the market. This would make you a ton of money if you’re right. Of course if you’re wrong you could easily lose your shirt because there is no limit to downside losses.
#15 RB says “This phrasing foretells an adventure into unexplored territory.”
This would certainly be true, but I’m still not convinced that bankruptcy is as likely as these statements make is appear. This is still a game of chicken with the bondholders. The UAW doesn’t want a bankruptcy because it correctly believes it has more clout with the Administration than it would with a bankruptcy judge. The Administration doesn’t want a bankruptcy because it’s risky and much more expensive than doing a reorg outside bankruptcy. So the issue is really what offer will make the bondholders prefer a reorg to a bankruptcy. This is one of the reasons Rattner is in the position he is — he is the expert on bondholders and reorgs.
There are BTW two camps of opinion about how much all of this matters. One thinks that cost cutting will make GM competitive. I’m with the other camp that thinks that without better product none of this matters.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (12:04 pm)Tim,
In case you haven’t heard this old saying, “When you owe the bank one thousand dollars, it’s your problem. When you owe the bank one million (billion, trillion?) dollars, it’s their problem.” China is our bank for the moment, and we owe it billions and billions of dollars. That’s not to say that I don’t agree with your overall premise that government these days is little else but personal and party politics above doing what is best for our country.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (12:17 pm)#26 Tim- it seems you should start selling all your stuff and start digging a trench. If we all feared the future, we’d all be in one big hole…that day will come for each and every one of us anyway. I say the world is what it is by the stupidity and greed of man, and I’m not going to fear it!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (12:17 pm)26
I Hate the World
(Sung to the tune of “We Are the World”:)
I hate the world
I’ll eat your children
A deeper bunker
A hole in the ground
Is what I’m build’n
I’ll rip away your joy
And load it in my gun
And spit in your eye
All just for fun
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Apr 4th, 2009 (12:20 pm)CEOs never answer their own email. But I’m glad you got a response from one of his admin assistants!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (12:27 pm)The gist of this article (GM & bankruptcy) is a good segue to personal economics. Today, I drive a 2001 PT Cruiser with about 125K miles on it. Despite having a stick shift, it only gets around 25 mpg on average. While I plan on driving it into the ground, the time will come when we end up needing a replacement vehicle.
As much as I could dream about the idea of owning a $40K electric car such as a Volt, I could also buy a late-model low-mileage used car such as a Honda Civic for less than half the price, which would leave me with enough left over to buy this 22′ geodesic dome greenhouse (http://www.geodesic-greenhouse-kits.com/sizes.php) that could provide fresh produce year around. Buying a used car is environmentally friendly because the energy that it takes to manufacture the car has already been expended, and growing your own food is environmentally friendly because it doesn’t have to be trucked in from far-off fields to your table. Heck, I’d probably still have enough left over to better insulate / weatherstrip our house and replace a few thermopane windows that have since lost their vacuum seals.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (12:33 pm)Obama’s White House is up to its usual manufacturing of events. If Fritz Henderson has done anything that Wagoner hadn’t planned to (except possibly wagoner’s reluctance to go Chap 11, to his detriment), then I’m missing something. Of course, Obama is doing percisely the same thing in Iraq that Bush had planned, and is also extending the war into Afghanistan, despite being ignored by the European “allies” whom he asked for (but didn’t get) any help.
The idea here is to proclaim something as such and such, assuming the lazy and stupid media will simply take your word for it. As Obama noted to those CEOs, the bonuses paid by companies is wrong because the public thinks it is. In other words, don’t represent reality, simply go along with the morons on the street. It’s called the old school (or Cook County) politics.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (12:33 pm)Lyle, congrats on a response from the CEO–that’s progress.
A controlled bankruptcy? What does that mean for the steakholders? Forget the fans here. What does that mean for those with actual money in the Company? It means, they get screwed…I think that’s the rip here. They’d better get major stock in any future GM Co.
Finally, Tim, I agree with everything you’ve said. Our Country is in trouble. Serious trouble!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (12:45 pm)Congrats Fritz. Now build the Converj buddy!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (12:50 pm)The correct timing on the GM bankruptcy was last December. This was before placing the TARP bet. The goal… GM would be seeing a huge jump in car sales by Spring of 09′.
The current bankruptcy plans are a result of our multi-billion dollar tax bet coming in as a losing ticket. Oh well, what happens in Detroit stays in Detroit.
Some Union workers have accepted buy-outs. Others have received TARP for their post employment medical costs. GM will reorganize and continue to build the Volt. Competitors will continue their EV campaign as well.
BTW: We have our first Tesla in the neighborhood. It’s orange with black top. It is smaller than I thought. Mazda Miata size. This makes a total of three EV on our block. All three are small vehicles.
=D~
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Apr 4th, 2009 (1:14 pm)#12 Tim
You should go downtown with a sandwich board that says, “the end is near!” People will flock towards you.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (1:29 pm)Cheaper will be the goal for Gen II.
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Then Volt really isn’t the “game changer” it’s been promoted to be.
By the time a second generation becomes available, the new model of Prius available next month will be upgraded too.
Like the task force, I don’t find negative cash flow until 2014 acceptable.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (1:32 pm)#39 john1701a
A major auto manufacturer producing a plug-in isn’t a game changer? EREV isn’t a game changer? We’ll see.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (1:33 pm)#35 Dave B
Those that can afford to hold steaks will be fine.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (1:35 pm)Hello….it’s a complete game changer….wake up and read more
Fritz…please look at all the fantastic concept vehicles GM has show at auto shows.
Build just 1/2 of them WITHOUT CHANGING THEM and wow…you have a successful car line up immediately.
I have been e mailing this message to GM for years.
Hopefully you will listen…and if you may have been…perhaps your in the position to build them now…looks like your hands are not fettered.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (1:45 pm)#28 DonC says (to me)
“#15 RB says “This phrasing foretells an adventure into unexplored territory.”</i
DonC’s response: This would certainly be true, but I’m still not convinced that bankruptcy is as likely as these statements make is appear. This is still a game of chicken with the bondholders. The UAW doesn’t want a bankruptcy because it correctly believes it has more clout with the Administration than it would with a bankruptcy judge. The Administration doesn’t want a bankruptcy because it’s risky and much more expensive than doing a reorg outside bankruptcy. So the issue is really what offer will make the bondholders prefer a reorg to a bankruptcy. This is one of the reasons Rattner is in the position he is — he is the expert on bondholders and reorgs.
There are BTW two camps of opinion about how much all of this matters. One thinks that cost cutting will make GM competitive. I’m with the other camp that thinks that without better product none of this matters.”
================================
Thinking about what you said about bankruptcy in the first paragraph, you may well be right. At least the main reason for all the bankruptcy talk must be as a negotiating tactic. Otherwise why not just keep quiet and file whenever ready? But no doubt things would be smoother if the bondholders would agree now.
On the “two camps of opinion”, I agree there are two camps. “My” camp says there already are a number of highly competitive GM products, such as pickup trucks and big SUVs, so it does matter. A company slimmed down to the attractive lines and sized right would be profitable immediately. Of course, more attractive cars and trucks would be great, but I think the last 5 years has seen a number of good new introductions.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (1:48 pm)#41 ThomDbhomb — One steak for me, please
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Apr 4th, 2009 (1:51 pm)A major auto manufacturer producing a plug-in isn’t a game changer? EREV isn’t a game changer?
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Production is only the first step. It alone is not enough.
Change comes from high-volume sales.
Sounds like that second step won’t be coming until 2015.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (2:00 pm)#39 John 1701a
The only way I see the Voltec system and the Volt not being a game changer is for Battery supply not being able to keep up with potential sales. Other than that it is a system that should be exploitable by nearly all customers of autos. Most will rarely use Gas and all will use less. Cost will come down. Hel* my first car phone [that is what they called them back then] cost $800.00 and I only got 30 min. included air time each month with a monthly charge of about $70.00! combine that with the fact that electric components including motors are much easier to build than the precision parts involved with the making of an ICE and lend themselves to automatic assembly.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (2:14 pm)#24 K Dawg said:
“Good luck Fritz. Fritz quick rinse bankruptcy = the Fritz Blitz”
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I like that K Dawg…that’s catchy!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (2:22 pm)One of the first changes from the old management Fritz should make is to let Lyle drive one of the mules.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (2:34 pm)#45 John 1701a
I understand what you are saying, but I am not ready to predict that the Volt won’t be a game-changer. As I recall, The first Prii commanded a premium over regular ICEs in the “compact” vehicle class. Yet, the Prius was a game changer. The Volt looks promising as a game changer. We’ll see.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (2:43 pm)Way to go Lyle, I can see a Volt ride in your future.
If anyone is wondering why we keep bailing out financial institutions instead of what the FDIC does to failed banks (and has done 20 times already this year), in my opinion it is because his chief financial advisor Larry Summers has recieved 2.7 million dollars for “speaking engagements” at the financial institutions that the administration is showering with taxpayers money. I read this in the NYT this morning. They got rules about consorting with lobbiests, bounses are “shameful”, but I guess there is no rules against “speaking enagagements” paid for with taxpayer money.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (2:43 pm)Gee, he can return email to one of GM’s best supporters! What a big step in a more uplifting direction! I too have a better feeling about this! Thanks, Lyle!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (2:45 pm)In less than a week, GM got the commercials about the total confidence thing on TV. Fritz is moving right along (although it doesn’t take an MBA to realize that copying Hyundai’s of unemployment payment help was a good idea). I also like the fact that he replied to Lyle’s email. I’ve already seen the commercials, they do a nice job of portraying that GM is trying to help themselves by helping customers. I just hope it doesn’t come back to bite them in the behind if things really go belly up for economy. Of course if things really do get as bad as Tim #12 says, and there is 20% unemployment, GM has bigger things to worry about. New vehicle purchases would drop to practically nothing by that time.
By the way, people who are worried about just moving the tail pipe to the coal plant are listening to too much propaganda. Studies have been done and found that except in very high coal use areas of the US like Pennsylvania, there would significant reduction in green house gas emissions. Here in the Northwest, its all wind, solar, and hydroelectric already. Plus, while CO2 only stays in the atmosphere for a limited amount of time, global oil production peaked in 2005 (notice how oil just kept going up and up and up?) and the global economy won’t be able to expand until we find an alternative to oil.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (2:49 pm)We’ll see.
______________
Waiting is not an option.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (3:14 pm)Lets see … 60 – 5 days .. 55 days left until the threat of bankruptcy is over. I’ll just wait 56 days to purchase a new GM truck or SUV. Need something to do some towing but don’t want to make a mistake and buy a soon to be obsolete Olds … er already gone … Saturn, Hummer, Pontiac?, or perhaps the entire company. Guess I had better sit on my hands for a while longer. No deal is a good deal if the brand goes away.
Did you folks see where Chrysler was having a time negotiating with the bond folks so they could get er done before their, now 25 day, deadline. The list of Chrysler bond holders looks like a who’s who of TARP takers. Whats wrong with that picture?
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Apr 4th, 2009 (3:24 pm)I agree with #12. Obama’s power grab makes me sick. Things
are getting worse and Obama is spending billions of taxpayer
dollars instead of depending on market corrections.
Some thoughts:
1) If GM is contractually obligated to build cars using steel, it needs
to fix that and switch to carbon fiber.
2) What is UAW going to give up to save GM? It isn’t right for the
government to defend union benefits and perks if they make the
company non competitive. The solution is to either improve
benefits at foreign companies or make cuts at GM.
3) GM needs to commercialize a fuel cell car and the government
needs to spend at least $50 billion on hydrogen infrastructure
in cooperation with the private sector. GM only has 3-6 years
to commercialize a fuel cell car and remain competitive.
4) The Volt with a large Lithium ION battery may never be profitable.
GM can only charge a price that the public will bear where $40k
is a luxury car, not a family car.
5) Getting off of oil means more electricity and more hydrogen,
what is the government doing about that?
6) Hydrogen refueling infrastructure could piggyback on existing
infrastructure if a liquid hydrogen carrier is used.
7) Bankruptcy the answer? I thought the bailout was supposed
to save GM from bankruptcy.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (3:30 pm)Don’t worry Fritz. If it doesn’t work out, there’ll probably be a $20 million severance package waiting for you, too.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (3:40 pm)Dow prediction … I’ll be good. We’ll see, what happens to the Dow. I think the next, now 55 days will be of great inport. I know that when the US domestic auto CEOs were before congress the Dow responded, wildly minute by minute, to the conversation. At this time though I don’t think bankruptcy of GM is fully baked in.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (3:47 pm)I don’t know what to think. I just wanna see the Volts on the road. No, they won’t make much profit, but that is what Gen II (or Gen III if you’re Statik) is for. Anyone who thinks GM can magically lower the price and produce huge volumes of Gen I Volts is a bit loopy in my opinion. You have to look at how long it took the Prius to become profitable, even though I think the Volt will do so more quickly. EREV tech is revolutionary, and you have to pay the price to get it on the market. And everyone, please stop mentioning the plug-in Prius as if it is equivalent to the Volt– a 10 AER parallel hybrid is not = to a 40 AER EREV!!! And the PHEV Prius is even less close to production for the masses than the Volt.
PS. “Steakholders”…mmmmmmm
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Apr 4th, 2009 (3:59 pm)Anyone who thinks GM can magically lower the price and produce huge volumes of Gen I Volts is a bit loopy in my opinion.
____________________
Just reduce the battery capacity.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (4:07 pm)#43 RB says “My” camp says there already are a number of highly competitive GM products, such as pickup trucks and big SUVs, so it does matter.”
it no doubt matters. The Q is whether it’s as important as the product. In this regard, the problem for GM is that sales are moving towards cars and away from trucks and SUVs, and GM hasn’t competed well in this segment. Plus there is the Q of whether GM is more weighed down by legacy costs or by a legacy of poor products like the Cadillac Cimarron.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (4:16 pm)Competitive … Volt must compete. A pretty face will only get you so far. The Volt has to hit the magic price point that the masses will pay.
GM could produce the Volt in partnership with a battery supplier and let them lease the batteries to the consumer. Competitive pressure would produce the best battery lease option.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (4:30 pm)#21 statik said about Mr Henderson “Now due to some extreme circumstances he finds himself running the show, he can operate unfiltered”
——————————————————–
#23 RB said:
That’s actually not the case. Mr Henderson is supervised by his minder from the WH, who attends meetings with him and approves expenditures, and by the GM BOD, the majority of whom now are or will be WH appointees. I hope Mr Henderson can function well as a WH operative (better than the guy at Freddie Mac) and that GM does well with its guidance.
========================
Sort of on the topic of your response, I know they expect the majority of the BoD to step down and/or be replaced. (I haven’t heard much detail on when or who yet)
I don’t think the current BoD, under the dark cloud of dismissal, has any cloat (or want any) really at the moment against Fritz, but your right the PTF/czar by committee can affect/veto Fritz’s decisions if it involves a sizeable cash outlay. With the administration’s constant beating of the ‘we don’t want to control GM’ drum, whether or not they choose to get that actively involved might be debateable.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (4:30 pm)Go Fritz, GM needs a Bankruptcy to clear out the buden it’s carrying.
Why?
The NA systems of companies providing pensions and health benefits is a complete CROCK.
When are americans going to finally wake up and realise these two things should be totally independant of your employer – Duh!
Go Volt and GM don’t waste a dime on the “Hydrogen” garbage – it the most inefficient prodcution and storage of energy – probably designed by the petroleum energy people.
Go Electric Storage and the batteries will get even better and more invorementally friendly to recycle vs the WASTE of electricity need to produce hydrogen!
Go Fritz you have the ammo to shoot those lame bad GM ducks as the NA system has given you choice but to and save the good part of the family …. & The VOLT!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (4:32 pm)#53 john1701a
“Waiting is not an option.”
GM is probably aware of their economic situation and has an idea of what it might take to stay in business.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (4:55 pm)Statik@21 planted a big sloppy faced kiss on Henderson’s pate:
Boy, you make him sound like Pattan to Waggoner’s Eisenhower. Is he your cousin or something (g)?
Maybe I’ve been listening to all the Negative Nellies around here (*cough*statik *cough*), but I have to be suspicious about any govt anointed, er I mean appointed chief of a public entity. Was he chosen so the Union is safe for the President’s Barber Corps? If he “Pulls a Reagan” and dissolves the union and hires new workers, I’ll believe I was wrong (Yeah, like that’s gonna happen). At least there’ll be 5 million Green Jobs for those ex-carbuilders…
Note to self: increase dose of happy pills.
Be well,
Tag
Let’s just get a Volt!!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (5:06 pm)Bloomberg article about the Volt…sorry if this is a repeat.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aCJOCuv6_jg8&refer=home
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Apr 4th, 2009 (5:14 pm)Article in the latest issue of Business Week; BoD insurance is virtually impossible to obtain and the few policies on offer are priced 300% to 400% higher than six months ago. It is going to be hard to find anyone to serve on Boards now.
Some companies are “self-insuring”, particularly banks and other finance companies. If any go bankrupt then the BoD members are on their own as far as liability is concerned. A person would have to be nuts (or extremely egotistical) to serve.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (5:32 pm)#67 RichardG says “Article in the latest issue of Business Week; BoD insurance is virtually impossible to obtain and the few policies on offer are priced 300% to 400% higher than six months ago. It is going to be hard to find anyone to serve on Boards now.”
————————————-
Thanks for the link in #66.
Regarding BoD insurance, the company’s will find a way to pay for it, for example, pre-pay the premiums or some such.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (5:57 pm)An outgoing administration and an incoming one tried to maintain an auto industry in the US. They agreed to fund, with loans, the initial requests of Mr. Wagoner. He then tried his best to set up a viable and reorganized GM. He wasn’t able to force everyone into agreement. Now he’s gone, and I don’t believe the bondholders will agree to be essentially wiped out, without being forced to (would you agree to this?). This means bankruptcy (to me) is the only foreseeable way to end this.
IMHO the path we’re on is the only one that would have allowed the US auto industry to continue without melting down the rest of the way. Short of sending in the secret service to rip Wagoner from the chairman’s seat back in December, it’s the only orderly way. Such is fate.
If you recall, Mr. Wagoner said it would be impossible to have any bankruptcy without destroying the company and probably the industry. Not exactly ” I”ll die before this happens”, but also not the guy to hang the fate of the industry on, through the bankruptcy and reorganization of GM either.
Of course if you don’t think it’s important to have a US auto industry then none of this would have been worthwhile in your eyes.
Just one guys opinion/
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Apr 4th, 2009 (6:12 pm)#10 Shawn,
Prediction: The electric cars will come first. As they become more prevalent, attention will turn even more than today toward electric power generation and then Nuclear will really take off. I’m thinking in terms of the world, not just USA and decades not years.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (6:13 pm)Was he part of the team in 2000 who decided to spend $1 Billion dollars on the Hummer brand while mocking Toyota for their spending $1billion on the Prius? Talk about an epic failure of vision.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (6:26 pm)It is inefficient to wait three hours to charge your battery. NO
TO THE VOLT, DIE GAS/ELECTRIC VOLT DIE. GM Sequel
with a platinum free stack and a hydrnol or magnesium
hydride slurry reformation system now!
We can’t add tons of high voltage power lines to the nation’s grid, but we can put in hydrogen pipelines and use effective hydrogen carriers.
NO TO LITHIUM ION BATTERIES, THEY EXPLODE AND
LITHIUM IS EXPENSIVE.
Daimler Chrysler is going to outdo GM when it comes
out with a production fuel cell B class car in the summer
of 2010.
Yes to building hydrogen infrastructure. No to adding plug-in
outlets all over the place.
Yes to 300 miles in a Chevy Sequel, NO to 40 miles in a Volt
gas/electric hybrid.
No to bankruptcy, Yes to the Chevy Volt hydrogen.
Yes to replacing Obama in 2012, NO to all the firings he pulled
off recently.
End volatile fuel prices once and for all, tell your senator to push
Obama for accelerated construction of hydrogen infrastructure.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (6:54 pm)Michael Robinson
Volt is an electric car and GM has more fuel cell experience than anyone. If and when the economics make more sense than lithium ion, they’ll be happy to put in a fuel cell in place of range extender for you. Just chill, if fuel cells win the battle GM will be your OEM.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (7:00 pm)Re: Michael Robinson
You must be an employee of the oil industry.
Hydrogen is MUCH more INefficient than electricity, and MUCH more expensive of an infrastructure to roll out.
The electric grid is already there, it just needs to be improved a tiny bit, where the hydrogen infrastructure needs to be totally built from scratch.
Also, hydrogen comes out in the form of water. What do you think will happen to roads in the winter? In case you don’t know, the water vapor will eventually turn into a thin layer of ice. Do you want to drive on a skating rink in the winter? If you do, go right ahead. I don’t.
You think 3 hours is inefficient? You plug in at work for 8 hours, and plug in at home..for 8 hours. There is bound to be a time in your day when you’re not using the car for 8 hours (like..you know..AT WORK..or AT HOME WHILE SLEEPING).
Hydrogen cars are still incredibly expensive. Any hydrogen cars that are out there now cost about $1 million EACH. Electric cars will eventually come down in price, and increase in range. 40 miles for the Volt is only the start.
If you want to drive a hydrogen powered vehicle, than you still want to be under the thumb of the oil industry. Most of us want to cut the noose.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (7:38 pm)That was a pretty long reply from the axe man.
It is time to put this corporation thru the chop shop.
Need to get rid of more than the bondholders, retirees and nasty health benefits.
Need to hire only hourly workers that have NO benefits at all. (32 hours per week max)
It’s time to get lean and mean. Remove that albatross around your neck (aka the unions).
Free from all this dead weight you can rise in the shadow of your former self and regain a competitive posture that will carry you forward.
Time is short. You can do this. Put’em thru the grinder. Woo Hoo !!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (8:04 pm)http://www.hydrogendiscoveries.wordpress.com
http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com
HYDROGEN CARS DO NOT COST A MILLION DOLLARS.
THE MERCEDES B CLASS HYDROGEN CAR WILL GO ON
THE MARKET FOR $30k IN THE SUMMER OF 2010. THE
HIGHEST SUGGESTED PRICE I HAVE SEEN FOR THIS
CAR IS $49,999. THAT ISN’T A MILLION DOLLARS.
HYDROGEN CARS RELEASE NO MORE WATER THAN
GAS POWERED CARS AND IT COMES OUT AS STEAM.
THE BEAUTY OF HYDROGEN CARS IS THAT THEY
ONLY RELEASE WATER.
HYDROGEN PIPELINES MADE OF CARBON AND ALUMINUM
ARE CHEAPER THAN HIGH VOLTAGE LINES. TRY $500k A
MILE VERSES 1-2 MILLION A MILE. HYDROGEN PIPELINES
HIDE UNDERGROUND WHICH IS BETTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT THAN CUTTING CORRIDORS THROUGH
FORESTS THAT CAN BE SEEN FOR MILES.
THE OIL COMPANIES HAVE NO INTEREST IN PRODUCING
HYDROGEN USING RENEWABLE AND NUCLEAR ENERGY.
THEY WANT TO REFORM OIL. I WANT TO SEE SEA WATER
GET REFORMED. SEA WATER ELECTROLYSES MORE
READILY THAN FRESH BECAUSE SODIUM IS A CONDUCTOR.
SEA WATER IS ALSO ONE OF THE MOST ABUNDANT
RESOURCES ON THE PLANET.
I AM NOT ASSOCIATED WITH AN OIL COMPANY.
GM DOESN”T KNOW MUCH ABOUT FUEL CELLS. HONDA
HAS A PRODUCTION READY PROTOTYPE IN THE HANDS
OF REAL PEOPLE WHERE GM HAS NOTHING ANYWHERE
NEAR MARKET READY.
GM HAS DROPPED THE BALL BY FOCUSING ON THE
VOLT INSTEAD OF THE SEQUEL. THE VOLT IS ONLY A GAS/ELECTRIC HYBRID CAR AND IT IS 10 YEARS LATE.
THE VOLT MIGHT HAVE MADE SENSE WHEN THE EV-1
FIASCO HAPPENED, IT DOESN’T MAKE SENSE NOW
ON THE BRINK OF SEEING FUEL CELL CARS GET MASS
PRODUCED.
FUEL CELL CARS ARE 3-6 YEARS AWAY FROM MASS
PRODUCTION, NOT 10 OR 20. PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE
UP AND TELL GM THAT THEY AREN’T INTERESTED IN A
POINTLESS AND EXPENSIVE DETOUR.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (8:21 pm)Porsche’s overflow production was done in Finland, not exactly India or China style wages. Now that Porsche’s overflow production is moving to Austria,Valmet is tooling up for the Fischer next. Austria isn’t exactly India or China style wages either. I would say GM’s problems have been a bit bigger than adequite wages for it’s workers.
http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/30/porsche-to-move-cayman-and-boxster-production-from-finland-to-aust/
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Apr 4th, 2009 (8:55 pm)Michael Robinson
Please stop shouting. You have made your case.
I assume you are on the list for the Mercedes.
Good luck with that.
PS: There is no need to spend anything in the near future to upgrade our electrical grid. Any upgrades in the future will be gradual, unlike the requirement for Hydrogen stations. We all have electricity at our homes, and we know how to plug in an appliance. Since most people will be plugging in at nite, when returning from work, this is actually going to help the electric utilities by providing them money for off peak charging.
One other thing, that $30,000 Mercedes B-Class hydrogen fuel cell car is something that Daimler says they COULD produce in 2013 or 2014. Lots of car companies make lofty claims, with promise of some wonderful new car in the future. Do not hold your breadth on this one.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:02 pm)If the government really wanted to get the auto companies out of “hock”, they could offer a tax credit of several thousand dollars towards a purchase of a new American auto company vehicle (GM, Ford and Chrysler). Sorry Toyota, Honda, Nissan and all you Johnny-come-latelys. The public needs this type of investment a lot more than we need the spending bills and social spending bills passed by the current administration and democrats.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:05 pm)I don’t know the facts about UAW benefits, and I believe
in an honest days work for an honest wage. I do know
that GM is being manipulated by Obama to protect the
UAW. That’s wrong. It’s also wrong that the country
was suckered into a huge bailout that obviously didn’t
work. We must not be getting the truth about how bad
a shape GM is in. If GM goes under and fails to meet
it’s pension obligations, the taxpayers will have to pick
that up. A lot of related companies will also be hurt.
What is the UAW doing to save the company that provides
it’s workers with jobs?
Cars that are fueled by foreign oil are less and less
profitable these days. Battery technology isn’t as
mature or able as fuel cell tech. Fuel cells have been
getting developed for 17 years since the early 90’s. If
government wants to help, it should fund the necessary infrastructure to support hydrogen cars in cooperation
with private industry. Private industry needs about $50
billion from government in addition to private funds to
build the needed hydrogen stations nationwide.
There is a lot of misinformation about fuel cell cars
and hydrogen that government could dispel. Fuel cell
cars are electric cars, so I don’t see why people are
so hung up about them. Considering that a 100 fuel
cell cars is a lot for any car company right now, I’m
surprised how quick people are to say they know that
these cars have this or that problem. Regarding the
Volt on the other hand, I see little to no skepticism.
Consider, probably half of the world’s OIL reserves have
been depleted. The carbon that was trapped in those
oil reserves has been released into the atmosphere.
$700 billion or something like that is going to OIL imports.
A ton of money is lost to import OIL 30% of which goes
to gasoline and diesel. With hydrogen fuel cells, there is
the possibility of cutting OIL imports by 30%.
There is a lot of Natural Gas available if the Alaskan gas
pipeline gets finished. In the short term, hydrogen could
most certainly come from natural gas. In the long run,
we need to reform sea water and non fossil sources of
natural gas.
Obama isn’t getting what he wants from GM, so he fires the
top executives there and noone has a problem with that?
If government help means government control, I’m with Ford
which has said no to government loans so far. Ford is also
saying no to E-Revs because it probably knows as I do that
fuel cells are the answer.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:06 pm)#65 Tag said:
Statik@21 planted a big sloppy faced kiss on Henderson’s pate:
Boy, you make him sound like Pattan to Waggoner’s Eisenhower. Is he your cousin or something (g)?
Maybe I’ve been listening to all the Negative Nellies around here (*cough*statik *cough*), but I have to be suspicious about any govt anointed, er I mean appointed chief of a public entity. Was he chosen so the Union is safe for the President’s Barber Corps? If he “Pulls a Reagan” and dissolves the union and hires new workers, I’ll believe I was wrong (Yeah, like that’s gonna happen). At least there’ll be 5 million Green Jobs for those ex-carbuilders…
Note to self: increase dose of happy pills.
==================
Are you using me against myself here? Can you do that? lol.
Actually he wasn’t appointed by the gov’t, he was ‘next in line to the throne’ after Wagoner, before all this mess started.
Although the conventional thinking was that because Wags was a lifer, and was BFF with seemingly every member of the board, he would never get his shot, or perhaps would be passed up by some ‘new hotness’ when Wagoner decided to move on/retire.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:10 pm)#76 Michael Robinson:
/too far
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:11 pm)Be reasonable, do things my way…
Statik and Fritz are really one and the same. I have had this suspicion for a long time, now I am sure. Come on Statik, take off that mask!
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:21 pm)Mercedes isn’t the only source saying that the B class fuel cell
car is going to be mass produced in 3-6 years.
http://www.hydrogendiscoveries.wordpress.com
Mass production is 3 -6 years away, but production will start
in the summer of 2010.
As far as the there is no need for the electrical infrastructure
to be upgraded in order to support plug in cars, I respectfully
disagree.
There is enough renewable energy potential to support all the
hydrogen production that is needed if 170 million cars become
fuel cell cars. Ask a company that is taking on the hydrogen
distribution problem what their take is:
http://www.asemblon.com/energy
There need to be more than a 100 million electric cars/trucks/and
SUVs before electrification of the automobile will make a significant
enough dent to stem global climate change.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:25 pm)#80
“There is a lot of Natural Gas available if the Alaskan gas
pipeline gets finished. In the short term, hydrogen could
most certainly come from natural gas.”
================================================
So you think we should use natural gas to produce hydrogen to run your car? What good does this do? Why not use the natural gas to produce hydrogen to make water, it makes almost as much sense.
If you have natural gas, then use it to directly power you car. These cars are already out in the real world. Honda sells one. Not sure where your going with this Hydrogen rant, but I think you are quickly approaching the ranking of fanatic. Sorry, but your posts, appear to be snipets from googled web pages, and they go all over the map.
Does inhaling to much hydrogen cause mental instability?
/Why do I even bother…where the heck is DaveG? Ask Tag for some of those happy pills.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:41 pm)JEC 85
Kool Aid Good
_______________________________
Michael Robinson 76
GM lost the future to Japan when they bet the farm on fuel cells instead of hybdids. In 2008 Chevy made it’s last gasp attempt to invest by swinging for the fences with fuel cells, and decided to invest heavily from then on in E-Flex now Voltec. ( http://www.chevrolet.com/fuelcell/ )
Hydrogen is a great energy carrier, but instead of converting it why not skip that lossy step and use the source, nat. gas not reformation and electricity in the case of electrolysis. ( I know it’s no longer the preferred term but I’ve said electrolysis since I was 11 years old).
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:42 pm)#77 Len
You can’t be serious about that comparison. Porsche is a low volume luxury brand–which means they have a much higher profit margins, so they can absorb higher labor costs.
And, by the way, no one is even suggesting that the UAW workers work for Chinese wages. Not even close. Believe me, you could get a full time job at McDonalds, and still make more in one year than the average Chinese family will see in their lifetime.
What the US taxpayer expects is that the UAW accept wages comparable to those paid by the domestically assembled foreign manufacturers. These wages are substantially higher than the US national average, which, by the way, is higher than the national average income in Finland.
I’m not entire surely why wages that still place workers in the top thirty percent of income earners in the US are somehow inadequate. But anyone who doesn’t like it is always free to try to find another job.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:44 pm)#83 JEC says:
Be reasonable, do things my way…
Statik and Fritz are really one and the same. I have had this suspicion for a long time, now I am sure. Come on Statik, take off that mask!
==============================
…I could only dream to have such a luxurious moustache. The man is practically Tom Selleck’s twin.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:45 pm)I don’t know if GM people follow this site, but if they do–
Dear Mr. Henderson:
The Volt is a real paradigm-shifter and should be pursued at all costs. It has all the advantages of a Prius, PLUS (at 40 miles driving per day) yielding an INFINITE mpg (no gasoline used at all) as compared to the Prius’s 50 mpg. At 80 miles daily, it yields about 100 mpg as compared to the Prius’s 50 mpg. (Grid electricity cost ignored as negligible.) From a national viewpoint, the Volt will solve the problem of overseas oil sources that are unreliable, even hostile. Also, it will eliminate overseas sources that (depending on oil price) cause a cash outflow of up to a trillion dollars annually that makes these exporters rich and makes us poor. Also, it will help solve problems of pollution and climate change.
This is in addition to the savings realized by the individual owner of a Volt.
The Volt’s minus: it will cost too much to achieve high-volume seller. Solution: you should reconsider proven lead-acid batteries which have the slight disadvantage of weighing a few hundred pounds more but the great advantage of lowering the sales price by many thousands of dollars, making the Volt a high-volume seller; a real success for GM.
A. Z. K. Sanders
P. S. Another suggestion: for those “green” people worried that pollution from coal-fired electric power plants will be as bad as tailpipe pollution, you should advertise that first, power plant pollution is more readily controlled currently than tailpipe emissions; second, that firm contracts for gigawatt-sized SOLAR-thermal power plants in the Mohave Desert have been signed and construction is proceeding.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (9:45 pm)Hydrogen,
We have inhaled enough discussion on hydrogen to get the bends and give us narcosis.
Its a loosing proposition.
nuff said.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (10:03 pm)LauraM 87
It wouldn’t matter to me if each of a company’s employees made a billion dollars a head. Would I work there – Yup! If they can’t sign contracts more prudently than that they should go peacefully to bankruptcy, after I get paid of course. We’re not in the 1700’s and managements should be forward looking enough to realize that some alignment of employee and or union compensation with company goals will be needed. It’s not a moral issue with me, just common sense.
GM made no progress in this at all, until VEBA began to be tied to GM stock by exigent circumstances.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (10:11 pm)Hydrogen is NOT a losing proposition, it is the future. That is
why Honda is saying that it will be cheaper to perfect fuel cell
cars than it will be to perfect EV’s and E-Revs. E-Revs do
not free those who make long trips from dependence on
foreign oil.
http://www.hydrogendiscoveries.wordpress.com
Hydrogen doesn’t give you the bends.
Now, those gigawatt solar plants in the Mojave desert should
be producing hydrogen and a pipeline to the nearest major
consumer is needed. Better yet, solar crack water and
bypass electrolysis altogether.
Nuclear plants are cleaner than coal plants and produce more
electricity. More pebble bed nuclear reactors, more solar thermal
plants, more windmills, and if we ever figure out how to do this,
a space based football stadium sized solar array that beams
power to the earth via microwave.
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Apr 4th, 2009 (10:28 pm)Wow, do we sound like that when we talk about the Volt?
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Apr 4th, 2009 (11:57 pm)Am I the only one who’s getting scared by this? Since when do CEO’s need gov’t approval? That’s right, once the gov’t is largest shareholder, and starts to exercise those rights. Slippery slippery slope. I sure wouldn’t trust myself with that kind of power.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (12:48 am)Michael Robinson “Considering that a 100 fuel
cell cars is a lot for any car company right now, I’m
surprised how quick people are to say they know that
these cars have this or that problem.”
And…” GM DOESN”T KNOW MUCH ABOUT FUEL CELLS. HONDA
HAS A PRODUCTION READY PROTOTYPE IN THE HANDS
OF REAL PEOPLE WHERE GM HAS NOTHING ANYWHERE
NEAR MARKET READY.”
__________________________________
from 12/27/2007 ( http://www.greencar.com/articles/chevy-hydrogen-powered-equinox-gets-zero-emission-certification.php )
from 1/28/08 ( http://www.greencar.com/features/vision-award/
And finally … From ( http://www.hybridcars.com/vehicle/chevrolet-equinox-fuel-cell.html ),
Real-World Evaluation
To evaluate the performance and durability of the Equinox Fuel Cell Vehicle, GM took the middle ground between companies that were leasing FCVs (fuel cell vehicles) to government agencies and a handful of consumers—and those who still don’t want their vehicles too far from the engineers who watch over them. GM put its 100 Equinoxes into Project Driveway, a three-year-long program that began in 2008, to get real-world driving impressions and experiences from short-term loans of the fuel cell vehicles. GM opted to provide the vehicle and fuel for free and set strict parameters because of limited fueling infrastructure—meaning Equinoxes were handed out only in Los Angeles, New York and Washington, DC. The goal was to get a large quantity and variety of consumer feedback on these advanced vehicles prior to rolling them out for lease or sale.
In 2008, the first year of Project Driveway, 3,400 drivers put more than 500,000 miles on Equinox FCVs. Most were generally impressed with their short stint in the vehicles.
Mr. Robinson – Good luck in your future endeavors!
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Apr 5th, 2009 (12:57 am)As far as the why reform natural gas instead of using it directly
comment, because hydrogen is a clean fuel whereas natural
gas isn’t. You don’t want to be reforming natural gas on board
a car to run it through a fuel cell. You’ll release CO2 into the
atmosphere if you do on the car reforming of NG. Fuel cells
are more efficient than internal combustion engines, so you’ll
get further running hydrogen through a fuel cell than you will burning natural gas and you won’t pollute the air. Methane
is a more dangerous gas climate wise than CO2.
Really, hydrogen needs to come from renewable sources such
as sea water. The water exhausted by fuel cells will eventually
go back into the ocean. It may be necessary to produce
hydrogen carriers that can be easily transported and reformed
on fuel cell vehicles, but the early fuel cell cars are using compressed hydrogen gas.
Instead of stringing up high voltage transmission lines, the
nation needs to build hydrogen pipelines that start at the
windmills where you place your electrolyser. These
pipelines go underground and they are significantly
cheaper than transmission lines.
Battery advocates watch out, the Volt gas/electric hybrid still
uses gas. That is a problem. It’s okay to be able to get to work
on electricity if you plug in at night, but it’s not so great if you
want to cross state lines for some reason. If solar panel
technology were further along and panels were cheap
enough, I’d say slap a solar panel on the roof of the Volt
for range extension. Last time I looked on E-Bay,
a 125W panel is almost $600 and that panel isn’t suitable
for automotive applications. Now if you could get a 90kW
solar panel that is suitable for the roof of the Volt and it only
cost $600, that would be a game changer. Talking about
something that will never be invented won’t bring it into
existence, that goes for more powerful batteries too.
Concerning natural gas cars, think 200 miles and no trunk
space.
Most of the world’s natural gas is not here in the U.S., it is in
Russia and other places. This could become a major problem
if the transport sector goes wholesale to natural gas.
Natural gas reformation is a short term solution to get hydrogen,
not a long term one. The important thing is to get started using
hydrogen.
Natural gas needs to be conserved as it is the only popular alternative to coal right now. Coal is much worse because it
contains heavy metals among other things.
No matter what happens, more nuclear plants and more
renewable energy is needed. We need to get more aggressive
when it comes to using desert land for large solar power projects.
We also need to get more aggressive on the nuclear power front.
Until we can put football stadium sized solar power satellites in orbit around the earth, we are going to have to revisit nuclear power.
If natural gas cars were a silver bullet, the auto industry would have
gone there. The reality is, most of the world’s natural gas is in Russia. the Russians have been playing games when it comes to providing natural gas to Europe for winter heating needs for those
who have been following the news.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (1:01 am)I misspoke about GM not having fuel cell expertise. GM simply
has a very different strategy from Toyota and Honda.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (1:05 am)#83
Statik and Fritz are really one and the same. I have had this suspicion for a long time, now I am sure. Come on Statik, take off that mask!
——————————————————————————-
If that were the case, the email response to Lyle would have been an essay with spelling mistakes.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (1:33 am)I thought hydrogen fuel cell vehicle is an extented range EV where the ICE and genarator is replaced by fuel cell and hydrogen.
The question is why GM takes much more time to come with volt because they already had the technology with project drive way.
From some website i read Honda fcx is 65%+ efficent where previous fuel cell ones where 40% efficent.
Every body has the technology of EVS or EREVS but they all are in influence of Oil kings and thatz the reason no body want to give new technology.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (3:01 am)Come on Unni, why do you believe in a big oil conspiracy?
What makes you think that GM which is in financial trouble
is getting paid under the table by: Exxon Mobil, BP, or
Shell? That is a very cynical attitude that there isn’t
much evidence for. Better yet, why are you saying this on
a GM forum that GM employees might be reading?
Hydrogen cars are electric cars, the difference is that they
have the range of a normal car and can be recharged,
refueled, in minutes instead of hours.
It does take energy to get hydrogen, which should be renewable
or nuclear energy, but once you have hydrogen, using it is clean. Hydrogen pipelines can replace those high voltage power lines
that nobody wants.
The oil companies don’t appear to be serious about hydrogen because it would cut into their profitable oil business. That’s why oil companies want to make sure that hydrogen comes from fossil fuels. It shouldn’t, deriving hydrogen from fossil fuels defeats the ecological benefits of using it. Actually, hydrogen is produced under certain conditions by certain bacteria where further
research may reveal a way to farm hydrogen.
By the way, it takes hydrogen to refine oil into gasoline.
One pathway to getting hydrogen is to reform cellulosic ethanol.
There are three advantages to reforming cellulosic ethanol to get
hydrogen. First, the carbon released was already in the atmosphere since cellulosic ethanol is not a fossil fuel. Second,
ethanol is easier to transport than hydrogen. Last, you get further
on the hydrogen if you run it through a fuel cell than you will on the ethanol burning it in an ICE.
There are many entrepreneurs that want to see hydrogen take off.
There were experiments a long time ago in producing cars that
shut down completely at a stop light and then start back up immediately when you touch the accelerator. These experiments
failed even though the cars worked because noone liked having
their engine shut off. I hope hydrogen cars aren’t blocked by an
irrational fear of them. Diesel cars failed because of the smoke,
but they are actually cleaner than gasoline powered cars.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (3:31 am)Live long & prosper Fritz!
Maybe this guy will acknowledge the waiting list?!?!?
GO FRITZ, GO EV!
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Apr 5th, 2009 (5:18 am)#91 jeffhre
I don’t think that GM had a choice about signing those contracts. At least not in the past ten years. Well, that’s not true. They had a choice–sign the contracts, or face a strike that would drive them into bankruptcy, which for a company as large and complex as GM could easily mean liquidation. (Although at this point, I don’t see much choice.) I don’t blame them for signing those contracts.
And, FYI, the UAW called a strike against GM as late as 2007. GM’s financial condition only started to matter to them when they realized that bankruptcy was a real concern in the very immediate future. And, even now, I think they fully expect the US taxpayer to continue to fund wages grossly out-of-line with the rest of the US.
Yes. I know they’ve made concessions. But not anywhere near enough. Their wages have only started to resemble their domestic competition after GM, Ford, and Chrysler had to beg Washington for money, and met with skepticism from Washington and the American public.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (7:07 am)The UAW must step up to the plate.. accept wages 20% lower than the competition.. for a start.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (9:08 am)#83
Statik and Fritz are really one and the same. I have had this suspicion for a long time, now I am sure. Come on Statik, take off that mask!
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#98 rickj said:
If that were the case, the email response to Lyle would have been an essay with spelling mistakes.
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Again, for the record…real men don’t use spellchecker.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (9:15 am)GM is probably aware of their economic situation and has an idea of what it might take to stay in business.
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Fritz clearly acknowledged the “Not far enough. Not fast enough.” assessment of their proposed plan.
Yet, many here are still in denial, sticking to the ideal that’s impairing progress. There can’t be extremes only.
Focus must be on the middle, where a majority of sales come from. If Volt truly does deliver 50 MPG after depletion, it just plain does not make sense not focusing on EREV-20 first. Lower the cost. Build many quickly.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (10:40 am)The key for survival is getting the Volt and other electric cars out in massive numbers that overwhelm the competition. A Volt in every driveway! Just like Henry Ford wanted with the Model T. It would astound the stock market and everyone else.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (1:01 pm)Statik
Admittedly my post was pretty “slippery”. No harm, no foul?
I’m guessing you’re already on the “Canada” thread, so you probably won’t see this one, though.
Be well,
Tag
ON to Canada!
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Apr 5th, 2009 (3:10 pm)#107 Tag said:
Statik
Admittedly my post was pretty “slippery”. No harm, no foul?
I’m guessing you’re already on the “Canada” thread, so you probably won’t see this one, though.
Be well,
Tag
ON to Canada!
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Oh, I am here, ‘watching your behaviors and taking note’, hehe. It is always, all good.
Catch you on the next one.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (3:32 pm)Long, boring posts today!
Timaaayyy!!! out.
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Apr 5th, 2009 (10:11 pm)I don’t believe the bondholders will agree to be essentially wiped out, without being forced to (would you agree to this?). This means bankruptcy (to me) is the only foreseeable way to end this.
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There is another forseeable way to continue the crisis. Continued infusions of borrowed government cash. There is no limit to the amount of money the government can obtain by simply printing it.
This works politically on many levels. The UAW is happy because the current gold plated contract is fully funded. The administration gets excellent press from the liberal media for “doing something” without resorting to brutal market forces. The government gets to reward loyalists with lucrative positions on the GM management team and board.
As the government stake in GM grows, you will need to be an insider to get any VPs job.
Eventually GM will be formally nationalized, and Obama will get what he truly craves–praise from the European press.
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Apr 6th, 2009 (3:30 am)Tom Harwick 110
Pretty funny! Right now he’s channeling Jack Kennedy, any thoughts on the question though? Bondholders, bankruptcy, building viable GM.
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