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Chevy Volt Will Not be Cut by Obama!

April 2nd, 2009 | Posted in: Financial, Politics

Recently there has been a lot of discussion about the Auto Task Force’s evaluation of GM’s business case. A certain paragraph led many to speculate that the Chevy Volt could be in jeopardy in the case of a a likely “clean rinse” or “quick surgical bankruptcy” where GM’s bad assets were cleaved off in bankruptcy court.

Here is that paragraph again:

GM is at least one generation behind Toyota on advanced, “green” powertrain development. In an attempt to leapfrog Toyota, GM has devoted significant resources to the Chevy Volt. While the Volt holds promise, it is currently projected to be much more expensive than its gasoline-fueled peers and will likely need substantial reductions in manufacturing cost in order to become commercially viable.

You may remember I got a direct message from Bob Lutz still GM vice chairman but no longer VP of product development, who told us in a Mr. Spock-like fashion not to worry, “Volt will survive and prosper.”

I have found I couldn’t seem to get a message to Mr. Obama or members of his Auto Task Force, but fortunately Bloomberg.com could.

In a just published report the reporter wrote that the “Chevrolet Volt electric car, called “too expensive” by the Obama administration, won’t be blocked by the government as part of its demands that the automaker cut costs, according to a person familiar with the matter.”

I don’t know who that person is, but they sure are making sense. After all as Lutz said you can’t have a less expensive generation two without a more expensive generation one. Just imagine if people stopped making computers because the first models were too expensive.

The electric car revolution continues…Volts in our driveways November 2010 come hell or highwater!

Source (Bloomberg)

Posted by: Lyle

74 Responses to “Chevy Volt Will Not be Cut by Obama!”

Jason Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 4:52 pm

This is encouraging news. Perhaps His Democratically Elected Highness Obama and his lords will bestow a lower price upon his serfs (taxpayers). Sorry! I couldn’t resist the temptation.
heyIMmike Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:00 pm

I am looking forward to getting one of those cheaper, 2nd generation Volts. As much as I’d love to be first in line, the ‘99 Dodge Neon and ‘99 Chevy Silverado that my wife and I have will just have to do…
omnimoeish Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:01 pm

Great to hear we are not as shortsighted as we were back in 2001 when Bush ended the alliance with the US auto makers to produce fuel efficient vehicles where vehicles (like the GM Precept were made that got 80 mpg) so that he could pursue the war in Iraq.
Eric C. Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:05 pm

Fourth!
Wants-A-Volt Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:07 pm

I hope we will be able to someday buy a Volt and hopefully it will still come from GM. But things don’t look good! Now Toyota and Honda are going into a Hybrid price war read @ http://kirkn.spaces.live.com/. Only time will tell.
Mark Bartosik Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:08 pm

Rather than “won’t be blocked” I would have preferred to have read “will be supported” or “will be a high priority”. The message is clear – Volt will live.

Of course between the decision makers deciding and the news print hitting the web there is plenty of more for a little morphing. So I’m not reading much into it, other than Volt will live.
Lurtz Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:09 pm

We got your back, President Obama!
Jason M. Hendler Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:09 pm

Chelsea Sexton of Plug-In America recommended that the Obama administration reduce the warrantee for an EV battery from 10 years to 5 years, which they estimate will make the battery pack 1/2 its current size, greatly reducing the cost. I wonder if there was any response by the Obama administration about that.
Vincent Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:11 pm

Ba”ROCK”.
Nice Work!!!!!!…and your wife gets to touch the Queen. The Magic continues
Thanks Mr. President!
Whats that way back in the mirror stopping for Gas…Yup Toyota and Honda. See Ya…
PLJ Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:12 pm

GREAT NEWS!

And GM is right to stick to its guns and go for the best solution to America’s driving needs, which is Extended Range Electric Vehicle technology, starting with the Chevy Volt.

Competing directly with Toyota and Honda with just another hybrid would be a hideous waste of resources, and GM would in any case be just another “also ran.”

By leapfrogging the conventional hybrid technology of the two Japanese companies, GM will usher in an entirely new world of motoring for America, not to mention the rest of the planet.

If Obama only does ONE thing in his entire administration, it MUST be to save General Motors and the VOLT program.

GO GM!

GO! VOLT!
Mark Z Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:21 pm

Recent news stories have been a concern, so it’s good to get positive news for a change. The critical time is in the next two months. If the VOLT is not in the best interest of the special interest groups that want GM restructured, then watch out. Remember that big oil was behind the EV-1 demise. How could the oil industry influence the new administration and cause a change of heart towards the VOLT? Don’t forget to call or write your support of the VOLT whenever communicating to your government leaders.
Paul Froese Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:24 pm

If the government can put 14 trillion dollars towards bailing out the financial system they can own and lease for $1/mo the damn Volt batteries!!! This is a GAME CHANGER! Not like p*ssing into the wind with the rest of the TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars going to Goldman Sachs et al.
kent beuchert Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:28 pm

Another case of Obama stupid, I’m afraid. How else to explain the claim that GM’s Volt is of no significance and then the opposite claim that GM need to go “high tech” and “green.” Hello, out there. Is there intelligent life in the White House? Silly question. GM needs to give Obama the finger and sail into bankruptcy court. Oh, if Wagoner had only had a little guts. Just a little.
Bruce Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:30 pm

Well if “a person familiar with the matter” in an obscure article that is not referenced says so then it must be true. Not exactly hard news here from the horse’s mouth. Geez.
Lurtz Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 5:47 pm

Kent, your conservadroid tears sustain me. Mmmmm, bitter tears of frustration, mmmm.
statik Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 6:06 pm

As some of us mentioned in the orignal topic thread. It is up to the PTFoA to assess GM, and to determine which parts makes sense to viability and which do not…regardless of the will of the executive.

Many of us assumed their was no way Obama would back away from the Volt program in any scenario that saw GM survive (what with his million EVs by 2015 benchmark)

They (PTF) made the absolute right call by saying the Volt was a waste of resources for a company that could not see the project through to its eventual profitability (whenever that is…if at all). The PTFoA has to make judgements like this to keep their credibility, regardless if they know they will be ignored or not.

Frankly, I’m fairly surprised by the PTFoA. I think they are doing a pretty good job overall…a little gullable on some of the assuptions, but not bad at all
Frank B Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 6:17 pm

I don’t believe the White House said “GM’s Volt is of no significance”, sounds like someone’s spin on things. President Obama has always supported electric cars, including the Volt. I have no doubt the Volt will happen.
Bruce Lee Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 6:28 pm

GM better hurry. The Chinese government just announced their intention to become world leader in electric cars. Technically they already are since they are the only company producing a plug-in on an assembly line. Anyway, they have ordered all major cities to begin installing mass quantities of plug-in outlets throughout because most of the urban population lives in apartments without garages. Their grand plan is to leapfrog the slow Americans and crush them on the other side. I think they have a very good shot at it. GM is certainly dragging its feet judging by how many years it will take before they ramp up production lines.
ccombs Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 6:40 pm

A wise move (and expected- Obama would never cut the Volt). GM has no need to duke it out with the Prius and Insight for more affordable hybrids, the Volt is simply in another (IMHO, much better) category without competitors. Let Tesla take the high end, Toyota/Honda take the low end, and the Volt take the middle.* Not that the technologies are comparable, but whatever.

*For now at least…I can’t wait till EREV gets cheaper. The study I just read comparing PHEVs and EREV (albeit certainly a bit biased) on the green car blog was heartening.
Van Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 6:40 pm

As others have dryly observed, the competition is going to undercut the Volt’s price if it remains in the high 30’s. Building various badged models of the same platform (Voltec on a Global Delta) will not result in significantly higher sales if you can buy a Plug-in Prius-20 for less than $27,000.

What is needed is competing batteries, built by separate companies, and today we have no production facilities on the scale of Japan or China. Who has the shovel and is willing to break ground.
George B. Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 6:47 pm

Like Statik, I was impressed by the actions of the PTFoA. They seem to have a clear grasp of the situation and show every indication that they will not allow themselves to get bamboozled by car salesmen.

“Mr. Obama, can you wait here while I go see if my manager will go for this deal?”

tick tock, tick tock…….
CorvetteGuy Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 6:50 pm

The road to hell (or high water) is always paved with good intentions.
Dave B Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 6:51 pm

Meanwhile Obama tells GM and Chrysler to get out of Nascar…anyone want to bet they tell us to quit smoking next? Ford made a smart move turning down government dollars.

Still…glad to see the Volt living one more day.
Eliezer Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 6:52 pm

Good news indeed! And I like how you photoshopped Obama’s head into the Volt picture. Nice!

#23 Dave B:

Meanwhile Obama tells GM and Chrysler to get out of Nascar…anyone want to bet they tell us to quit smoking next? Ford made a smart move turning down government dollars.
————————————————————

And by the way, that story about Obama cutting GM and Chrysler from NASCAR was an April Fool’s joke put on by Car and Driver. No one told you yet?
Vincent Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 6:53 pm

The batteries must be made here. Not just put together here.
Ford applied for the funds but has not taken them YET
If you smoke you should pay your own health benefits. Your illnesses suck the funds like a Dyson Vacuum

But lets stay on track of the great news of the Volt program.
Lurtz Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 7:09 pm

“Meanwhile Obama tells GM and Chrysler to get out of Nascar…”

“Gullible”, better known as “Dave B.”

It probably seemed, at first, like an amusing idea of an April Fools’ Day prank. Car and Driver magazine “reported” that President Obama told Chevrolet and Dodge this week that they would only be eligible for federal aid if they pulled out of NASCAR events. The move, the “article” said, would save more than $250 million.

The prank caused quite an uproar, the magazine apologized, and editors later acknowledged the joke went “too far.” The parody piece has since been pulled from the Car and Driver website.

The funny part, as it turns out, is seeing who fell for the prank.

In her April 1 column, Ann Coulter fell for a fake April Fools’ Day article by Car and Driver magazine that claimed that President Obama has ordered General Motors and Chrysler to cease their participation in NASCAR because it is an “unnecessary expenditure.” Coulter wrote, “If Obama can tell GM and Chrysler that their participation in NASCAR is an ‘unnecessary expenditure,’ isn’t having public schools force students to follow Muslim rituals, recite Islamic prayers and plan ‘jihads’ also an ‘unnecessary expenditure’?”

Oddly enough, Rush Limbaugh said yesterday that no one would fall for the NASCAR joke. Oops.

For what it’s worth, Coulter’s column has not yet been corrected. That’s not necessarily a surprise — the whole point of Coulter pieces is to deceive the reading audience — but it arguably makes the embarrassment slightly worse.

Jason Linkins concluded, “Naturally, one wonders if this revelation will even matter to Coulter, since an Obama-hates-NASCAR message is something she can just go right on asserting in her credibility-free haunts without fear of being called out for it.”
UNCLE SAM Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 7:13 pm

I’m still considering the VOLT, quit bugging me about it or the answer’s no for sure.

I’m just not sure BIG OIL and I can go along with this right now.

Maybe later, we’ll talk, I’ll get back to you, don’t you have some stimulus money to go spend.
Koz Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 7:36 pm

” don’t know who that person is, but they sure are making sense. After all as Lutz said you can’t have a less expensive generation two without a more expensive generation one. Just imagine if people stopped making computers because the first models were too expensive.”

And you certainly couldn’t have 1 million plug-in hybrids on the road by 2015 if you terminate the one closest (arguably) to being mass produced. Anybody who really thought the PTF was going to kill the Volt was dillusional (or Foxed – sorry Tag).
Tony Gray Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 7:40 pm

This still shows the possibility of decisions being made by government folks instead of industry people when you take their money.

I still think Roger Penske should have been put in charge of this. The plan would have been viable and executable from the get go.
CDAVIS Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 8:08 pm

______________________________________________________
“Chevy VOLT won’t be cut by Obama!”
I wish the best of luck for GM CEO/Chairman/Shareholder Obama.

In Other news….
Park your Electric Riding Lawnmower next to your VOLT:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54XESusg8H8
______________________________________________________
Electric Cars + Nuclear Energy = American Enerergy Independence!
______________________________________________________
ThombDbhomb Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 8:11 pm

#13 kent beuchert

“Is there intelligent life in the White House? Silly question.”

Silly question indeed! You are a silly person. Our president’s biography suggests he has intelligence. I’m sure there are others in the White House with above average intelligence. Your question and attitude seems sophomoric.

I really appreciate the respectful disagreements found on this blog. I’ve learned a lot from them. But, the low-level bitterness seems better suited for Rush and the like. Please keep things intelligent.

GAH!
kdawg Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 8:16 pm

Why not take the “unprofitable” Volt away from GM and put it under a Manhattan style project, so that its development and production continues. Let the profitable parts of GM continue. When the technology becomes profitable due to scale of production and a large government order to replace fleet vehicles, sell/give/lease the technology back to GM, so they can sell it to the plublic for profit, and pay back their loans.
Dave G Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 8:31 pm

#5 Wants-A-Volt Says: Now Toyota and Honda are going into a Hybrid price war read @ http://kirkn.spaces.live.com/. Only time will tell.
————————————————————————————–
This just goes to show that the specific engineering differences of the drive-train (parallel, series, series-parallel) are meaningless in practical terms.

The Insight and Prius will compete as high mileage gas powered cars.

The Volt will compete with other plug-ins, and the differentiator will be electric range, not the drive-train. For example, if someone came up with a car that had over 40 miles of all-electric range, but had a gas engine range extender that powered the wheels directly, then this would compete directly with the Volt, even though it wouldn’t be a series hybrid.

For example, Mercedes-Benz BlueZero E-Cell Plus prototype can deliver 62 all-electric miles,
http://gm-volt.com/2008/12/13/mercedes-benz-bluezero-e-cell-plus-e-rev-or-phev/
The gas engine is connected directly to the wheels, so it’s not a series hybrid. But with 62 miles of all-electric range, who cares! Of course, Mercedes hasn’t said anything about price or production date, so god knows if this will become real.

But the basic point is that it’s not the engineering details, its the stuff the user will notice that makes the difference. For the Volt, that’s 40 miles of all-electric range.
Schmeltz Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 8:51 pm

I read the reports for both Chrysler and GM and the Task Force did seem to have a decent understanding as portrayed in their analysis. I was little suprised too as some have already mentioned here already. They seem to “get it”.

As for maintaining the Volt program…Thank you Mr. President! We owe you one!
kdawg Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 8:53 pm

Dave G,

I agree w/your point on AER, but I still like the series design better because it gives you the E-flex option. All you need is some power source that produces electricity and you can funnel it to the wheels. Right now that power source is an ICE in the volt, but in reality, it could be anything.
JEC Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 8:56 pm

People will buy a car that fits their needs and budget.

The Volt as it currently stands will not sell to those looking for a good value. The Volt will sell to the enthusiast and those with enough disposable income to buy one.

The hope for the masses, is that the following Volt generations, or equivalents, will reach the point of value. Will it happen in Gen 2?
JEC Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 8:59 pm

35 kdawg

Yes. I agree. Perhaps that new Flux capacitor technology will develop into something soon.
kdawg Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 9:19 pm

JEC,
Not sure if your being sarcastic/fesicious.

But anyway, there’s fuel (fool) cells, CNG, turbines, compressed liquids, “flux capacitors”, cold fusion, and who knows what technology will be developed next. Point is, the option is there. Once battery technology advances enough, you wont need that option. Voila, BEV.
Anthony BC Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 9:47 pm

GO OBAMA!

GO EV!
The Grump Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 10:17 pm

13 kent beuchert said “Oh, if Wagoner had only had a little guts. Just a little.”
————————————————————–
No, Wagoner has no “guts” – only an ego so huge, it requires its own time zone, (somewhere between EST and CST). No way would Wagoner have agreed to bankruptcy to save GM – he would have lost all his major decision making power at GM to the bankruptcy judge.

Remember, Wagner refused to let GM compete with the Prius (for 10 years), personally destroyed every last EV-1, and had the stupidity to take a private jet to Washington to ask for a handout. Wagoner is not just stupid, he’s brilliantly stupid.

I’m afraid it took being asked to step aside by no one less than President Obama, to get Wagoner out of GM’s way. I have to give Obama his “atta boy” and a pat on the back for that show of force. Wagoner is gone – Mission accomplished.

Maybe Fritz can guide the GM “Titanic” out of the iceberg fields where Wagoner left it. I wish him the best of luck. Maybe GM could take a hint from Hyundai – a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty on all new vehicles sent Hyundai’s sales soaring. My advise to GM: determine what sells the best, buy some, reverse engineer them, and rebadge the result as a new GM car. The Prius should have been reverse engineered back in 2000 – Thanks for nothing Rick.
————————————————————
By the way – has anyone here at GM-Volt.com considered what would happen if the price of electricity once again jumped big-time like it did recently? My electric bill almost doubled. Not everyone can do solar panels – especially if you rent. Does the spectre of higher electric bills scare anyone else here like it does me?
CorvetteGuy Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 10:40 pm

VOLTEC is GO!

Now that Obama has established that, let’s hear more info on the things (other than gas/electric mileage and the price) that will get consumers to buy the thing: Is it fun to drive? Is it quiet? Is it ‘buzzy sounding’ under the hood? Is it TOO quiet? Is it TOO loud? Are the seats so comfy you will wish for a 400 mile commute instead of 40? Can the cup holder fit a ‘Big Gulp’ or just a 12 oz can? What is the 0-60 time? Will it dish out a big slice of whoop-azz on the Prius? Is it bigger or smaller inside than the Prius or the Insight? Is that special electric cord stowed in the trunk so I can plug in my VOLT while I am at work? Can I get a full recharge in less than 8 hours while at work?

I love this site, but the politics is getting to be a bore. Let ’s get more updates on THE CAR !!!
Zach Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 10:48 pm

VOLTSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Frank D Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 11:14 pm

We are witnessing the re-birth of the automobile and our Country. Keep the faith!
DonC Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 11:18 pm

Maybe the White House thought it too ironic to have an environmentally active president be the star of “Who Killed the Electric Car – Revenge to the Green Lobby”.

So Ann Coulter falls for the April Fool’s story by Car & Driver and Fox News says Obama had decided to kill the Volt, thereby giving Tag a heart attack. Great. But given how careful these folks are with their facts this is hardly surprising.

I did though see real news pieces wondering if the Volt would survive. Having read the report, I never interpreted those sections that way, but then again my filter is that Obama is fully committed to the electrification of transportation and the Volt is the best option on the table at the moment. Like I said, for a man careful with his words, you wouldn’t expect him to be giving speeches about EVs rolling off US assembly lines with Korean batteries unless he expected that to happen. Hopefully I’m right.
Michael Robinson Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 11:29 pm

Obama is a freaking Marxist who is trying to get his hands into
everything. Why did we elect him? Tell me it wasn’t because of
“white guilt.”

Honda and Toyota are serious about, ready for this guys, fuel
cell cars. Fuel cell cars are a better bet than plug in cars because
they can be fueled faster, depending on how you fuel them. They
have more room, because the battery can be small. They have
more horsepower than a battery powered EV. They are going to
get a heck of a lot cheaper soon, and yes we can produce hydrogen.

See http://www.hydrogendiscoveries.wordpress.com
and be amazed.
Lurtz Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 11:44 pm

#40 The Grump: “By the way – has anyone here at GM-Volt.com considered what would happen if the price of electricity once again jumped big-time like it did recently? My electric bill almost doubled. Not everyone can do solar panels – especially if you rent. Does the spectre of higher electric bills scare anyone else here like it does me?”

If your utility is like mine and offers a “time of use” billing option, you pay a discount when you’d most likely be charging the Volt — nightly after the peak evening hours. The utility benefits because it distributes the load, so everyone benefits.

#45 Michael Robinson

Obama was just the smarter guy. Given the competition, it’s not like it was hard — you Republicans so disdain intelligence and education that you intellectuals like McCain (The fundamentals of our economy are strong), John Boehner (whose budget proposal is a crayon drawing of Jesus high-fiving a bald eagle), Bobby Jindal (“something called volcano monitoring”), Joe the Plumber (not actually named Joe nor is he a plumber), Ann Coulter (screeching moron), Sarah Palin (no more need be said) and Rush Limbaugh (“ditto”).

So keep
jacko Says:
April 2nd, 2009 at 11:52 pm

I thought Obama wasn’t planning on running GM? Picking and choosing the product line used to be between GM and the consumer. I guess not anymore.
Michael Robinson Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:02 am

Based on the information given from a variety of sources, new electrical transmission lines can be estimated to typically cost between $1 million per mile and $2 million per mile.

On the other hand, researchers at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory (ORNL) estimate that polymer hydrogen pipelines will cost around $500,000 per mile. An ORNL group led by Dr. Barton Smith did a study that showed a 13.75 inch polymer hydrogen pipeline could provide the hydrogen necessary to fuel 50% of the light-duty vehicles in an urban city with a population of 1,000,000.

It seems pretty clear that it is cheaper to transport hydrogen
than it is to transmit electricity. Pipe lines go underground
whereas electrical lines are above ground and a million+ a
mile. Imagine that a platform is built out on the ocean and
a hydrogen pipeline that is connected to it goes 50 miles
to the nearest major city. The platform is equipped with an
electrolyzer, solar panels, and a windmill. The platform would
electrolyze seawater, noone can drink this anyways. Let’s say
that this electrolyzing platform is 5 miles out at sea beyond the
surf. If there is little to no wind, there is the solar collection where
the opposite problem is taken care of by the fact that there is a
wind mill. Theoretically, this platform when there are sunny days
and windy nights could electrolyze sea water 24×7.

Hydrogen is in the future even if it only used to feed stationary
fuel cells that feed plug in stations for chemical battery EV’s.
I for one don’t believe that chemical batteries are going to be
the answer though. I am especically suspicious of this considering
that Mercedes is going to market a fuel cell car in limited numbers
by 2010 and mass produce it between 2012 and 2015, selling it
for $30k a car.

I like the Chevy Volt hydrogen. I don’t like the Chevy Volt gasoline
electric hybrid. It can go bye as far as I’m concerned.
jeffhre Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:21 am

Michael Robinson @45

ROTFLMAO – Thank you I don’t feel depressed any more! Keep drinkin it’s good for you ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kool-Aid ), ’nuff said.
GM-fan Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 12:29 am

In order to let Volt survive and prosper…

I would suggest GM sell VOLT to government. This new company should run by AUTO task force, Volt will then have sufficient funding and resources. This is the only way to make sure we will have electric car in 2 years times and taxpayer support. People just don’t trust “High-pay executives” anymore

any thought??????
hayley Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 1:01 am

@ #18 Bruce Lee Says:
“GM better hurry. The Chinese government just announced their intention to become world leader in electric cars. Technically they already are since they are the only company producing a plug-in on an assembly line. Anyway, they have ordered all major cities to begin installing mass quantities of plug-in outlets throughout because most of the urban population lives in apartments without garages. Their grand plan is to leapfrog the slow Americans and crush them on the other side. I think they have a very good shot at it. GM is certainly dragging its feet judging by how many years it will take before they ramp up production lines.”

PLEASE do not talk to me about Chinese products. I was in China for about 6 weeks in 2006, and in that short time I heard news of two people dying from exploding cell phone batteries. It is common practice in China to sell things with the body of a brand name device but replace the interior components with cheap alternatives, since warranties basically do not exist (impossible to prove that you bought it from the store, etc). I’m not saying the BYD cars will have fake parts in them, but Chinese people doing business have no conscience and will do whatever it takes to make a buck. You have to go there to really understand what I mean. They will lie to you without batting an eye to make even a dollar. In their opinion, it is your fault for being gullible. I am Chinese and it makes me sick. Why do you think the car is not coming to the US market until 2011, 2-3 years after its China debut? Most cars in China do not have seat belts, only a hole where a seat belt should be, because the cars are cheaper that way. Just imagine what other safety technology must be missing from those cars. There is no chance in hell most cars in China would pass under US safety laws (besides the mega-rich who ride around in Audi A8s – those were surprisingly common too). Obviously things will improve but I’m sick of hearing BYD even in the same sentence as the Volt at this point.

@#45 & 48 Michael Robinson

Just… ugh.
jeffhre Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 1:04 am

Michael Robinson @48

Should be easy enough to swap out the gas tank and adjust the timing – go for it – hydrogen all the way! If you’re like most projected Volt drivers though, the hydrogen will evaporate before your range extender ever lights up, from spring through fall and possibly year round in the sun belt – happy motoring.
Bob G Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 2:15 am

Let’s review, for those who haven’t figured it out.

- ICE vehicles require foreign oil, which has dire economic, environmental, and national security consequences. Bio fuels can alleviate only some of this.

- Parallel hybrids always *require* gasoline, making them compete at an economic disadvantage with efficient and simple ICE cars.

- Fuel cells are too expensive and hydrogen refueling stations are too rare for this technology to be practical any time soon.

- BEVs require too many batteries to be cost effective with any practical range, and fast charging stations don’t exist.

- EREVs can plug into your *existing* outlet for most driving, and run entirely on electricity, which is cleaner (even when made from coal), cheaper, and more efficient than gasoline (Large-scale land-based generating stations are very clean and efficient because they don’t have the cost and size constraints of an automobile.). And for the occasion of a longer trip, EREVs use *existing* fuel. Gasoline can be found most anywhere, and ethanol is renewable, carbon-neutral, and can be produced domestically.

EREVs may evolve into BEVs or fuel cell vehicles as technology matures and infrastructure develops over time, but for right now, EREVs are the ideal technology. GM has definitely done their homework!
guido Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 6:39 am

Obama simply has zero credibility on ANY issue, unless perhaps you consider community organizing. His opinions change by the day, depending on how public opinion seems to be running. Richard Waggoners biggest problem was that he DIDN”T appear to be a tax cheat – in that case, he would have been absolved of any culpability.
mikeinatl. Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 7:33 am

We may be in trouble when whether or not to build a car becomes a political decision instead of an economic one. Something tells me we are giving far too much power to politicians instead of relying on good business decision making. The camels nose is in the tent and things can only get worse from here.
StevePA Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 8:15 am

#54 Guido

Sean Hannity fan?
StevePA Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 8:26 am

#41 CorvetteGuy

YES! Finally!

Its the CAR guys! (where have I heard that before?).

PS…Looking forward to a kick-ass electro Vette someday….
the insistent whine of honking large traction motors spooling up the rubber big time.
Tagamet Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 8:48 am

Koz Re “delusional” most forward thinking individuals find themselves er, tagged, that way. Thanks for the soft wording though

DonC re heart attacks – Accurate description, but fortunately the heavy medications mitigated the harm therefrom.

Be well, friends,
Tag
Let’s just get a Volt
Jim in PA Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 9:44 am

#54 Guido – The “Obama has no experience” meme didn’t work when he was a US Senator running for President. I can only imagine it is even less credible now that he is actually the President of the United States. Tell me, is this a 2012 Republican attack tactic; To say that a sitting president has no experience to be president? This concept goes beyond politics and beyond any liberal/conservative divide. It is just plain stoooopid. Please stop polluting this website, and offer content and opinions on the car industry instead.

And on that note… I find the urge to continuously remind people that fuel cells and hydrogen are not joined at the hip and are not interchangeable. So stop mocking them both in the same breath. Even if the economics of hydrogen do not work, continued R&D on fuel cells should continue in an effort to bring down unit costs. A fuell cell operates at 2X-3X the efficiency of an ICE. Imagine affordable fuel cells that use cellulosic ethanol, drastically increasing fuel efficiency and decreasing oil dependence more than possible with an ICE burning E85. It is a feasible goal worth pursuing.
Tagamet Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:01 am

Jim in PA @59 re fuel cells:
Can you please provide a source for me to read up on non-hydrogen fuel cells? If I google it minus hydrogen, it eliminates sites with any mention of hydrogen.
Thanks in advance,
Tag
Tagamet Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:14 am

oops double post. sorry
Tag
noel park Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:31 am

#28 Koz:

LOL! “Foxed”? As in “All Foxed Up”?

#31 ThombDbhomb & #40 The Grump:

Amen. Thank you.

#32 kdawg & #50 GM-fan:

I am largely to your way of thinking, but I think that it would be more efficient to leave the work in GM’s hands, with financing and direction from the Feds.

As someone so wisely pointed out here the other day, this was basically the model of most heavy weapons production in WWII. GM was a shining example. The Govt. specified what they wanted, loaned the companies the money to gear up production, and bought the resulting equipment from them. This resulted in thousands of B-24 Liberators, Sherman tanks, M-1 carbines, and who knows what else from GM. Thus, the Govt. did not try to develop the manufacturing expertise which already existed in the private sector, a process which would have taken years.

#44 DonC:

When I saw this issue arise, I immediately thought of that speech, which you have pointed out before. I also had the pleasure of seeing a clip of it on the news. So I never thought for an instant that the President would let the Volt go. As many have suggested, the Volt will be a key issue in encouraging government support of GM.
MuddyRoverRob Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 11:34 am

In the real world it is rare for a new product to be very profitable.
The first cycle there is often even a loss as the R&D costs are covered. As our good friends at GM have said time and time again, the cost reduced ver 2.0 version becomes profitable.

This isn’t an anomoly, pretty much anyone with any sort of experience in a manufacturing environment should know this.
The Ver1.0 always has extra bells and whistles to ensure success, through time and experience you find out what really is needed and what is not you cost reduce as you go.

Once they prove out the platform then they can build minivans pickup trucks and sports cars with the resulting proven motivating bits.
Michael Robinson Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 8:39 pm

Obama was only elected because he’s black and not a
republican. Nothing against black people, but I despise
the democratic party right now along with many Mexicans
I might add.

The nationalization of GM by Obama through his auto task
force makes me sick. What will Obama take control of next
in his quest to “end the recession.”

Hydrogen does not evaporate if you store it in a compound
and reform that compound as needed. Hydrnol and magnesium
hydride slurry are excellent examples of hydrogen carriers that
are easy to reform and compatible with existing infrastructure.

There are many solutions to the hydrogen infrastructure problem:

1) Hydrogen collectives where you pay say $32k instead of $30k
for 1 out of 1000 fuel cell cars sold to your community. The
$2 million goes toward building a hydrogen station.

2) Hydrogen pipelines which go underground are carbon fiber
and aluminum costing $500k a mile, unlike power lines which
go above ground and cost 1-2 million a mile. There isn’t
enough electrical capacity to simply drop in hundreds to
thousands let alone a million charging stations. A hydrogen
pipeline 13.75 inches in diameter can support half of the
fuel cell cars in a major city of a million people.

3) Platinum is going away rapidly, see
http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com and read the latest blog entry.
The price of a fuel cell is going to drop dramatically really soon.

4) High pressure tanks are a high cost component in fuel cell cars
that are unnecessary if you decide to reform a hydrogen carrier
on board the fuel cell vehicle. It is easier to reform a hydrogen
carrier than most people think and most hydrogen carriers pack
more hydrogen in a smaller space than compressing or
liquefying it will.

5) The Mercedes B class will be available for purchase at
dealerships between 2012 and 2015, 3-6 years from now.
It will be a fuel cell car that runs on hydrogen and it will cost
about $30k. Not $100k, not $200k, not a million, not 2 million.
The growing popularity of this vehicle will push infrastructure
development.

6) If we standardize on a hydrogen carrier that will work with the
existing gasoline and diesel infrastructure, it is MUCH cheaper
to provide hydrogen for fuel cell cars than if we don’t.

7) Asemblon intends to make hydranol available along Interstate 5
in 2 years time.

Hydrogen allows cars to use energy produced by renewable energy sources. Even if natural gas is reformed to produce hydrogen, less carbon will be emitted by the reformation
process than the combustion process in the typical vehicle.
Some natural gas will end up in the atmosphere if it isn’t
reformed, think: manure, sewage, and organic garbage.

Gasoline can’t sit forever. Gas can sit longer than
compressed or liquified hydrogen can, but not forever.

Battery electric cars aren’t practical because it isn’t practical
to increase the number of transmission lines sufficiently. It
also isn’t practical to build refineries right now which is one
of the reasons why gas prices are so volatile. That said,
we need to stop wasting OIL on transportation, it is just
too rare and too valuable for that use.

The auto makers have been working on fuel cell cars for 17+
years, the gas/electric hybrid Volt is how old? Hybrids are
not a solution, they are a transition technology that is only
needed if the infrastructure doesn’t catch up with fuel cell
and hydrogen ICE cars/trucks.

At a minimum, hydrogen pipelines are the BEST way to increase
the transmission of electricity from centralized sources such as
solar farms in Death Valley to the nearest major cities. These pipelines go underground and they cost less than electrical transmission lines. They are also safer than high voltage transmission lines.

Fuel cell vehicles are extremely unpopular right now which will
work in their favor in the long run when people see that they
perform better than E-REVs. Consumers will be upset with
the Volt if it doesn’t perform as promoted. Try 5 years for the
battery working, not 10. Fuel cell vehicles are underpromised,
where the Volt gas/electric hybrid is overpromised. Common
business sense says that the Volt is heading for some
major trouble.
Open-Mind Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:23 pm

Based on President Obama’s task force statement, I think he may be snorting cocaine again, perhaps along with Vice President Biden’s daughter Ashely. Let’s take that statement piece by piece:

————————-
“GM is at least one generation behind Toyota on advanced, “green” powertrain development.”

How many years in a vehicle “generation”? That’s vague. Doesn’t matter, since if you compare the mileage of current/planned GM and Toyota products, each side has advantages:

GM Escalade Hybrid: 20/21 MPG
Toyota Seqoia: 14/17 MPG (No hybrid option)
Advantage: GM

GM Malibu/Aura Sedan Hybrid: 26/34 MPG
Toyota Camry Hybrid: 33/34 MPG
Advantage: Toyota

GM Silverado/Sierra Hybrid: 21/22 MPG
Toyota Tundra: 14/17 MPG (No hybrid option)
Advantage: GM

GM Tahoe/Yukon Hybrid: 21/22 MPG
GM Vue Hybrid: 25/32 MPG
Toyota Highlander Hybrid: 27/25 MPG
Advantage: Both

Toyota Prius Hybrid: 48/45 MPG
GM Volt next year. Better than Prius?
Advantage: Toyota (for now)

————————-
“In an attempt to leapfrog Toyota, GM has devoted significant resources to the Chevy Volt. While the Volt holds promise, it is currently projected to be much more expensive than its gasoline-fueled peers…”

Duh. All hybrids cost more than their non-hybrid peers, due to the batteries and complexity.

————————-
“…and will likely need substantial reductions in manufacturing cost in order to become commercially viable.”

True for every electric car. Just need cheaper/better batteries, which is very likely to happen as battery technology improves and manufacturing scale increases.
Open-Mind Says:
April 3rd, 2009 at 10:44 pm

Mr Robinson (#64),

Thanks for the hydrogen info, but you seem to be under the impression that E-REV is “anti-hydrogen”. On the contrary, if hydrogen pans out as you say, then GM just replaces the ICE/generator with a hydrogen fuel cell. Same result … electricity … but from a different fuel.
allen Says:
April 4th, 2009 at 3:53 am

Obama needs a cup of shut the fuck up.
N Riley Says:
April 4th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

Hope springs eternal, as the saying goes. I hope you are right, Lyle, but at this point I still think it will be delayed 6 to 12 months. If GM can keep the bureaucrats out of the decision making, they may, just may make it by November 2010. We are keeping our fingers crossed (and our toes and that makes it very difficult to type or walk).
N Riley Says:
April 4th, 2009 at 8:49 pm

#67 allen

Oops! I just saw your comment. While I agree with the sentiment, I don’t agree with the language. Obama LOVES TO HEAR HIMSELF TALK. I saw him twice yesterday. Once off the tele-prompter and once on it. Off the tele-prompter he is BORING and stumbles with his sentences. On the tele-prompter, he speaks very well. But, you know, I decided well over a year ago, that with his speech writers and the tele-prompter, I could do just as good. I know this will make some of you mad, but he is a big bag of wind and he is going to force things on this country, along with the democrats in congress, that will forever change this country. May God help us because Obama and the democrats will not.
John Says:
April 5th, 2009 at 8:48 pm

How can America be expected to purchase $35 -$40k electric car during a recession that is only going to get worse. The recession began at least 12 months ago. All those who were on unemployment for the last 6 months are still unemployed.

No “I inherited a trillion $$ defict” Mr. President…You were a voting Senator with your party having the majority legislature. You voted on the trillion $$ also.

If the Big Three ant to sell cars lower the prices. You are downsizing and cutting jobs and overhead. Lower the prices and sell cars!
Jim Adcock Says:
April 6th, 2009 at 1:15 am

Obama ran on a platform of “Change” and now he is Walking and Talking “More of the Same.” The recently finalized fuel economy standards — under Obama’s watch — are 1 MPG WORSE THAT WHAT BUSH HAD PROPOSED!
MSR12 Says:
April 14th, 2009 at 5:15 pm

Why did Chevy change the body style from the original concept Volt, they made it look like everything else. The concept Volt was much more exciting, and they wonder why their business is failing. Part of its’ appeal is that it doesn’t look like a Prius.
Best Cheap Ugg Boots Says:
December 9th, 2009 at 3:56 am

Thanks for sharing this
Arnold Harris Says:
December 17th, 2009 at 3:47 am

Very informative posts and stories here. Much appreciated!

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