AND 
BREAKING: GM CEO Rick Wagoner to Resign
President Obama is set to reveal his plan to help revive the US auto industry on Monday. According to people familiar with the plan, GM’s CEO of 8 years, Rick Wagoner will be stepping down from his position. This was at the direct request of the Obama administration and with the apparent agreement by Wagoner. Other management changes are expected as well. This effectively ends Mr. Wagoner’s 30 year career at GM and illustrates the hard line position the government intends to take going forward.
On Sunday Obama said the US auto industry must be maintained but "it’s got to be one that’s realistically designed to weather this storm, and to emerge at the other end much more lean, mean and competitive than it currently is." He also said “And that’s going to mean a set of sacrifices from all parties involved — management, labor, shareholders, creditors, suppliers, dealers. Everybody is going to have to come to the table and say it’s important for us to take serious restructuring steps now, in order to preserve a brighter future down the road."
Source (Bloomberg )
113 Responses to “BREAKING: GM CEO Rick Wagoner to Resign”
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March 29th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Hopefully, this will shake the tree enough to get the bondholders and UAW back at the table.
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March 29th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
Recently I’ve been reading from many other readers of these forums that Rick has essentially a very low enthusiasm for the company and is responsible for many poor decisions. If that’s true, it’s good to see him stepping down!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dXZX_kEhj8&feature=channel_page
Help me win a Ford Fiesta (Fiesta Movement) by watching the above video and rating it 5*
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March 29th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Wonder if Bob Lutz will come back out of retirement?
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March 29th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
#2 Zach,
Wagoner could be the greatest CEO of all time, but with a major re-org like this, they need a new guy at the helm. Just the way it works. Expect the next CEO not to last very long either.
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March 29th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Not good news for GM. I wonder if they have decided to seek bankruptcy and Wagoner want’s to step aside in order to bring in someone who has a better skill set for reorganizing a bankrupt firm?
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Re-evaluation of the Volt program is inevitable now.
Being competitive is something President Obama will be pushing.
Don’t be surprised if an affordable target price is set… requiring a change in battery-capacity.
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
+1 #6
Lutz, Waggoner, change is afoot. I sure hope it’s for the the best and they hire someone who has some vision.
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:09 pm
Given the inaction of “all parties involved” thus far, I wonder how Obama is going to get his concessions? Maybe if he says “please”?
Obama has set up 2 possibilites:
1) A set of unnegotiable demands for each party. Can’t see this working.
2) GSB
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
It will be interesting to see what kind of “retirement package” Waggoner is allowed to have. 100% tax of anything over $100K?
Lutz got out just in time.
Just don’t fire the Volt!
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:24 pm
Maybe he realized he can’t deal with $1/year salary lol
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Sad news for Rick and his family, but he had failed and seemed unable to grasp the obvious. Time for him to go.
But the question remains, is there any point in pursuing, at a cost of taxpayer billions, a viability plan short of one ordered by a bankruptcy judge? I think not.
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
I have a feeling this is a prelude to a major MAJOR restructuring.
I don’t know exactly what the future will bring but here are some possibilities:
Government backed chapter 11.
Huge cut in the number of dealers.
Shut down several brands immediately instead of waiting for the models to expire like Oldsmobile. I bet Saturn or Pontiac get eliminated in a year or less. (Okay I take that back, I don’t bet real money, its only speculation). Hummer will be dropped. Opal and Saab are already in the ’spin off ‘ process.
I WILL guess that Saturn gets dropped sooner than later since G.M. is trying to spin off Opal. Saturn makes some really good products but you can buy all but the Astra at a different G.M. dealer. Saturn should have been the SCION of G.M., not the Oldsmobile replacement.
Few if any duplicate products after production cuts. (GMC trucks only exist to allow non Chevrolet dealers to sell trucks. Just let the non Chevy dealers sell the Chevy trucks and save the cost on the different grills.
Bond holders get it in the back side.
UAW gets it in the back side.
Stock holders get it in the back side.
Volt stays even if it is a money loser, for a while. It’s long term survivability depends solely on the price of gas.
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
Wow–this is BIG! It’s unfortunate things went as they did under Rick Wagoner as personally, he seems to be a nice fellow. I hope as GM turns a page, things will be better.
I hope whoever takes over is up to the task. Does this mean Fritz Henderson is the new President or would it be someone else? Does the gov’t. appoint the new CEO or is this still done by the Company board members, (I’m not being facetious, I really don’t know).
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:35 pm
Oops. I forgot 1 more bullet point.
Ex. G.M. executives retire in lavish luxury even if they can’t squeeze out one more golden parachute or outrageous bonus.
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:39 pm
Its cheating, Rick is taking $1 an year and i don’t think they can find a cheaper one than him. This helps him to get better money.
Second he was trying to improve the products : ex: Malibu, CTS, Traverse etc and volt in progress.
The new CEO will take some time to learn and push things to high.
More games to go.
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:40 pm
Fire the whole board of directors NOW!!!
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:42 pm
It’s about time. Thank goodness.
Somebody has the courage to clean up this effing company.
Lutz and Wagoner are HISTORY !!!
I think about 300 other executives at GM should be canned as well.
Those incompetent bastards drove this corporation into the ground.
GO OBAMA GO !!!
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
Change was needed in all areas. Good to see that it’s at least starting to happen.
GO EV !
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:54 pm
WOW. This reminds me of the wise words of one of the greatest Presidents that ever lived:
“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the government and I’m here to help”
- Ronald Wilson Reagan
Looks like Ford had a better idea after all !
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March 29th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
Hmmm… I would be careful in celebrating Rick Wagoner’s departure. I think he navigated a dense minefield about as well as anyone could have. Plus, I think he had a lot of very good personal qualities, leadership attributes, and background that probably make him more effective than most will be.
When you are thinking of getting rid of someone, the first thing you need to ask is “will I be able to find someone who can do the job better?” I think there is less than a 40% chance that you would find someone more capable than Wagoner. Not good odds at all.
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March 29th, 2009 at 6:09 pm
“Sad news for Rick and his family”
Really??? The guy ran a company bankrupt while making $10s of millions of dollars and now can sit on a beach in the Bahamas sipping Pina Coladas and lighting cigars with hundred dollar bills the rest of his life. And you feel sorry for him? I wish we all could have such unfortunate luck.
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March 29th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
obama can’t save anyone.
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March 29th, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Yes it would be premature to “celebrate” Mr. Wagoner’s departure. Correcting management only gives you a chance going forward, it does not provide protection from past mistakes as represented by Hummer, UAW legacy costs, etc. And since it is unclear that the UAW legacy costs will be eliminated, at least from GM’s books, it is way too early to “celebrate.” The “kill the bad GM” plan looks good but I suspect it is not politically possible given the special interest status of the UAW with the party in power.
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March 29th, 2009 at 6:29 pm
Don’t feel bad America, here in France we just canned our incompetent CEO of our biggest automaker as well.
With all these bad CEOs finally coming to light, I have noticed a sad pattern. Most (if not all) of them seem to be sociopathic personalities.
Especially the CEOs in the financial sector.
The idiots are running the asylum.
Good job Ricky, GM went from 33% down to 18% market share under your awesome “leadership”.
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March 29th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
It definitely sends the signal that everything is changing.
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March 29th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
#19 Ronny: Ford said “our long national nightmare is over.” Little did we know.
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March 29th, 2009 at 6:42 pm
Whole new ways of thinking at as many levels of GM are necessary. Sometimes, there becomes an entrenched and anchored set of methodologies to the exclusion of free-thinking and change.
If that is the beginning of what a transition requires at GM, I hope sincerely that the new leadership is HIGHLY GIFTED TECHNOLOGICALLY.
If not, and, the new CEO might be just an excellent marketer or just a well-known fiscal administrator, well, it might not go too well for me.
Too many times, marketers and non-technical administrators kill good ideas by having insufficient technical grasps of science, physics, electronics, chemistry, and innovation.
I would like to read here a good long interview of the new CEO.
I want to get to understand how the new CEO thinks.
All too often, I see someone at the shops I visit who is really good at bluffing (marketing themselves to all others) as to how much he knows and how logical he is. It only takes me several minutes showing him all the vast test functions which GM downloads for us in a Genisys scan system to get him to understand a fraction of a percent of what he never knew.
If the CEO happens to be “historically-dominant” in his thinking, that
*****************
NEVER
*****************
causes me to be at all impressed. “Discovery-dominant” thinking is all that technologically-works nowadays for the improvement of this environmentally-damaged World. A World which needs all the technological change and innovation possible in order to buy us adaptation-time to re- establish livability on this planet.
THIS situation IS THE most critical pivotal decision which is pending for our survivability, as far as I am concerned.
WE HAD BETTER HAVE A DISCOVERY-DOMINANT AND INNOVATIVE THINKER, not a “history-thinker” or we are really up the creek.
Dan Petit Austin TX.
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March 29th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
GM had set the course to recovery. The Malibu, CTS, and Enclave were all award winners. So is the Opel Insignia. More will follow, like the new Buick LaCrosse. Rick had a lot to do with this turn around in product quality.
The fact that the current Administration doesn’t recognize this fact shows how incompetent our new government is. Here comes the politics. When GM is doing well again (and they will), the pompus a**holes in government will try to take responsibility for their success, when in fact all they did was provide some bridge loans and force Rick to retire.
Note that they in government don’t have to worry about “bankruptcy”, they just pass more stimulus bills.
This whole situation is sickening!
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March 29th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Another very sad day – government boobs have taken over a company that simply should have reorganized.
A lesson to others, beware of the smiling man bearing gifts. If you take the money, your fate is sealed.
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March 29th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Ronny @ 19: says, “WOW. This reminds me of the wise words of one of the greatest Presidents that ever lived:
“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the government and I’m here to help”
- Ronald Wilson Reagan
Looks like Ford had a better idea after all !”
——————————
I think you are right on so many levels I’d have to write a book to explain. I do respect Rick for resigning and agree it has been past due for him to go, but having government dictate the move is SOCIALISM. My next point is that I will be looking much MUCH closer at the Ford Focus EV, EVEN AS A GM SHAREHOLDER. This is America, bankruptcy was the only option (even if my shares are worthless). Why doesn’t my industry get a bailout too, we’re suffering…oh yeah, many of us do not back dems.
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March 29th, 2009 at 6:57 pm
Have no fear people!
Now GM will be run by Obama’s “Task Force”.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
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March 29th, 2009 at 6:58 pm
Finally….thank God.
Indeed an ocean liner takes time to turn around…..but a decade….
A small group of us could indeed do far better.
Let the new GaMes begin.
One Bob left…we all knew what was happening next…it’s what you see right now my friends.
Best to Rick and his family, however new winds of majesty are blowing briskly and filling the sails…
Watch a real turn around now.
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Bailout or no bailout, I’m uncomfortable with the idea of the government interfering in the leadership of a company. So, who picks Rick Wagoner’s replacement, the government or the board of directors? If it’s the board of directors and they pick someone the government doesn’t like, does that person also get “the call” from Obama? If the government wants to put conditions on what a company must do to get the bailout money, fine, but making personnel decisions is government interfernce at its worst.
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:15 pm
Tough medicine but necessary. The Voltec platform is the only thing that will guarantee GM’s survival and a viable domestic automotive industry.
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
I think the report from Rattner finally made it to Obamas desk.
It must have maded interesting reading. “overly optimistic”didnt he say?
Of course the Volt will survive, it is now a part of Obamas energy and auto strategy.
As for GM,…. I I think it should be merged with Ford.
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
Wow, I didn’t see this coming. Rick Wagoner seemed to be turning the GM ship around with the recent successes of the Malibu and Enclave, but as a earlier poster said, going from 33% to 18% market share is unacceptable.
However, as much as I like some of the things the Obama adminstration is doing, the idea that the govenment can force corporations to change leadership in exchange for federal support is very troubling.
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Government representing taxpayers and using our money…should not scare you when a new management is deemed necessary.
Would you hire this guy to run your company with his track record of completely burying GM to absolute ashes….
You should be mad as hell if the money was going to the very people that killed the once great American Icon.
How does that make any logic…. being alarmed / troubled of a management shift forced by government. Please include your better paradigms.
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
I am not sure we have seen all the fall out from the resignation from Wagoner. Was it directive from the government and or from the brass at GM or of his own accord. I do know things are not always as they first appear.
On another note, If Gm wants to release the volt to people thay will provide charging as they ask and give them lots of feed back why look any farther then the list of us that are waiting for the volt. Lyle already has it for them…. how easy it would be for them
…
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
#33 MDDave Says: So, who picks Rick Wagoner’s replacement, the government or the board of directors? … If the government wants to put conditions on what a company must do to get the bailout money, fine, but making personnel decisions is government interference at its worst.
————————————————————————————–
The board will pick a replacement, but I imagine the government has suggested that the board pick someone from outside GM. That’s how these things usually work.
And don’t expect this new outsider to stay on as CEO forever. It’s probably more of a high-profile turn-around job with a nice package at the end, assuming they’re successful. Probably 4-6 years.
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:31 pm
I believe it is worth looking at the plight of GM and Mr Wagoner’s tenure in a historical perspective. Most of the posts here look at Wagoner’s 8 year tenure and some how equate time on job with the current plight of General Motors. I believe you could fault Wagoner for moving too slow on the restructuring plans but most of GM’s problems far outdate Wagoner’s tenure (Roger Smith is more of a culprit). Also, I could not name a major miss step during his tenure. GM has made major strides in the areas such as product, production quality (though consistency could still be better), the cost side (2007 UAW contract would have achieved near cost parity by 2011). One needs to remember if such an unusually severe recession did not happen and credit availability were at normal levels GM would not be where it is. Remember Ford only looks better because of its cash position due to the fact that it leveraged everything in 06 prior to the credit crisis. 1.5 years back everyone was saying how much farther along GM was(there restructuring strategies are nearly identical and GM started out on this path well ahead of Ford). This was all under Wagoner’s watch.
I don’t think GM gains anything by loosing Wagoner.
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
Like everything, realized months/years late…but hey, good news just the same. Wags/Lutz team is finally over.
Fritz has always been heir to the throne…we’ll see if he takes over, he seems like the right guy for the job.
I’d like to sum up with Wagoner’s stay with his statement about his position from December when talking to the task force, “I’m doing what I do because it adds a lot of value to the company,”
/…I guess the Presidential Task Force didn’t agreed.
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
#38 Voltik Says: Was it directive from the government and or from the brass at GM or of his own accord? I do know things are not always as they first appear.
————————————————————————————–
http://money.cnn.com/2009/03/29/news/companies/auto_bailout/index.htm
“A senior GM official official told CNN that the White House and its auto task force had “sent very clear signals” that the key to more help was “new leadership” and something that would help the administration see real change.”
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
This raises a few questions:
So who will be put in charge of GM now?
If we need to be politcally correct, it should be Pelosi or Clinton, don’t you think???? I am sure they would be able to run a small company like GM, After all how hard can it be?
And if Mr Wagoner had to go, why didn’t any of the people from Wall Street get the same boot?
A bit of a double standard………….
I hope GM can make it through this.
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Time will tell whether Wagoner was a good CEO or not. If things at GM turn under the new management, we’ll know he was probably not proactive enough (that’s kinda my bet). Personally I think the Volt program should’ve been started around the time the EV1 was canceled, incidentally the same year the 2nd gen Prius rolled off the assembly line. But anyway, if things continue to deteriorate, we can pretty well figure the last 8 years would’ve turned out pretty similar no matter who was the fall guy. We will have to check back on GM in 2015 or so and see what happened.
Anyone think the car Gods have let the chips fall so that we can snag Katsuaki Watanabe? If you can’t beat ‘em, hire ‘em! Fresh off his resignation for “causing Toyota to lose $1.8 billion” in 2008. GM burned through 20 times that under Wagoner.
Seriously though, you can bet that Obama and his task force are going to make sure the next CEO is very very green minded. That’s pretty much Obama’s main goal while he’s in office, fix the energy problem (along with health care and education).
The next few months should be very interesting to see what other news is released and how the restructuring/bankruptcy goes.
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:40 pm
Although there is some uncertainty for me regarding a change in leadership, the one thing that I know and brings me around is that I think that, consistently, all I have seen in the last two months have been “common sense” changes from President Obama. The common sense changes I’ve seen happen so quickly are consistently-surprising for me, as in contrast, the lack of apparent common-sense in leadership of the past had always been pretty disgusting from a technicians viewpoint.
I’m open-minded that there will be terrific advancements with new leadership at GM with new approaches, new innovative thinking that is not anchored in “history-thinking”:
Innovators immediately spot technical merit and are not afraid to become friends via mutual respect for that merit.
Sometimes I write these posts and never know that anyone ever sees them. I suppose with the thousands of people possibly writing that there would be a log-jam that would flood only one or several threads, but, my complaint about that is that the way that these threads work seems to be controlled by, well, “historical-thinkers”.
And, for some reason that I haven’t figured out yet, it just seems to not work for me from my viewpoint. You give a lot and do not seem to get even a minimum of interaction back. Maybe it’s just the way I write.
Good Bye.
Dan
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:49 pm
Compliments to Dr. Dennis for getting this info posted so quickly. I feel badly for Mr. Wagoner, but expected this for some time. I’m sure he will be kept on as an adviser at a good salary but should not be part of the decisions that will need to be made in the coming months.
This is all a huge sh_tburger and most of us will have to take a bite. No reason Mr. Wagoner shouldn’t share in the pain. The Volt is the light at the end of the tunnel….let’s keep our eyes on the prize.
NPNS/ LJGTVWOTR
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:53 pm
Let’s not kid ourselves. The semi-literate Obama (”deeper” restructuring) is taking orders from Chris Dodd who has been on a brainless rampage for months now, with Wagoner’s departure seen as some sort of remedy for preposterous labor costs that Dodd and his fellow union junkies in the Dem party have been protecting for the past 40 years. Labor pays the Dems and the Dems conveniently find villains everywhere except in the labor halls. Its been going on for several generations now. Dems prefer to blame CEOs, who are
scarce in terms of voting numbers at the polls and are conveniently not poor. Now we have the ultimate situation – days after passing a giant deficit machine whose effects of doubling the deficit within 10 years will demonstrably reduce real GDP from now on by an estimated .2 to .4 of a percent for every trillion dollars of new debt, the Dems are blaming companies for failing for reasons that don’t even make sense. Obama’s claim that Detroit’s problem was in not building hybrids and smaller cars is now shown to be the brainless
nonsense that it always was. Toyota can’t give away hybrids these days and has gottn clobbered at the showrooms.
Now let’s see the brainless folks who have replaced the previous brainless folks in the White House tell GM where exactly they are going to find all those efficiency-minded customers they claim are out there. At the same place where we’ll find all those house buyers?
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March 29th, 2009 at 7:54 pm
Anyone who had worked for a large company (one with thousands of employees) will atest to the sad fact that it takes a while to turn the battle ship around. GM is huge and they didn’t get to where they are at over night. So it will take them years to redeam themselves. And I hope they do.
Also firing one man is like throwing a pool chair off of the Titanic. Yes he was the head honcho, but his replacement will be made from the same mold.
Being a huge football fan (forgive me) but I equate this to firing a head coach after a couple loosing seasons. A change has to be made and in the public’s eye it was. However all the players are the same, most of the assistant coaches stick around, and most imporantly the owners are the same, aka the share holders.
Chevrolet + Buick + Pontiac + GMC + Saturn + Hummer + Saab Cadillac = BANKRUPCY
Keep It Simple
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March 29th, 2009 at 8:01 pm
I’ll be very surprised if the Volt is not delayed.
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March 29th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
#36 Eliezer,
Common turing GM around, are you kidding me, the sales of the Malibu and the Enclave! Who ever heard of an Enclave?
“…the idea that the govenment can force corporations to change leadership in exchange for federal support is very troubling.” again, are you joking, GM has gone to the feds not once but twice with hat in hand asking for money, I think the feds have all the right in the world to say, hmmm we will give you a loan under the following conditions,
Obama did not just call up Michigan and said hey just fire your CEO
Eliezer I question your credibility
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March 29th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
It’s time to change the name to National Motors Corp. (NM)
Obama is just trying to save the union and he can’t.
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March 29th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
44 omnimoeish Says: “Time will tell whether Wagoner was a good CEO or not. If things at GM turn under the new management, we’ll know he was probably not proactive enough (that’s kinda my bet).”
With product cycles taking 3-5 years and the fact that most of the cost cutting has already occurred or will be in place in the next few weeks (not to mention a recovery of the economy in the next 6-10 months is likely) the likelihood of seeing a turn around is high and it will not largely be because of new management.
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March 29th, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Simple solution:
Non-Patriots need to step up to the plate and start buying from American Companies.
IE don’t buy a Camry or Accord.-Buy a Malibu.
or buy a Camaro!
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March 29th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
#40 Kyle says “I could not name a major miss step during his tenure” reffering to Wagoner. How about four “miss steps”:
1. Not killing the Hummer program
2. Allowing GM to kill the Camaro
3. Delaying the Hybrid vehicles, then missing the boat by offering the hybrid technology in the (much hated by those most likely to buy them) SUV’s such as the Tahoe… Prius, Prius, Prius wasn’t Rick listening and watching what is going on around him
4. Delaying the VOLT program, I know it takes years to bring a new car to market, but it should have started much sooner
forgive me but I seem to be on a mission today first I pick on Eliezer now Kyle, LOL
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March 29th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Well get rid of Rick and Lutz and a few more antiques and you might be able to save the company. I doubt it though. The wrong way of thinking runs to deep at GM. JMHO
Take Care
Arch
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March 29th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
Statik #41
Hilarious
Dan Petite #45
Please keep posting. Although, I find your unique writing style difficult to follow at times, it is almost always on point and in agreement with my thoughts.
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March 29th, 2009 at 8:45 pm
_____________________________________________________
It’s offical….GM is now a Government Run Corp.
…Slippery Sloap?
_____________________________________________________
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March 29th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
#45 Dan Petit,
If I may offer . . .
- Shorten your posts.
- 1 or 2 paragraphs max( a little longer if it’s in an area you really know, or feel strongly about).
- The whole post should center around a single subject matter.
- You can’t indent so a double space signifies a new paragraph.
I thought your first paragraph was insightful and I would have let that one stand on it’s own.
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March 29th, 2009 at 8:59 pm
Dear Rick, Feel the freedom! I can’t imagine how good that must feel to all of a sudden be released from the UAW and all that debt in one day. It must have felt like a religious experience.
It’s time to devote all of your experience and genius towards the electrification of transportation. GM’s loss is Car 2.0’s gain.
If you are gathering a new army to attack this problem please let us know here at GM-Volt. It could be the mother of all projects.
Best Regards,
Texas
Imagine Mr. Wagoner driving a new effort without being tied down with all of GM’s legacy? He also has something to prove that it is not his fault and that it was like running a company with both hands tied behind his back.
A gifted mind that is fully motivated can change the world. Might as well put all of those resources to doing something useful – time to build a new industry. Car 2.0 is going to need a whole new way of doing things. If done right, the old industry that relies on quick turnover, repair revenues, etc. is not going to be able to compete. They cannot easily jettison their old and obsolete infrastructure and transportation culture.
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March 29th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
I don’t think this is something to celebrate, or really a cause to mourn at this point. I hope the next CEO is not a disaster, but it’ll probably just end up the same as now. Kinda a waste of time to fire Wagoner.
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March 29th, 2009 at 9:02 pm
Let’s see if I’ve got this right. GM takes billions in loans in Decemeber. Agrees to meet certain conditions by the end of March. Asks for additional money in February. Attempts to deceive the public by claiming additional $2B a couple of weeks later. Now the end of March is here and the piper has to collect something. Clearly GM cannot show viability because or even much progress towards it. Plus, there is little to show that 2 more weeks will change anything. Undoubtedly, they DO need the $2B and the only way to kick the can a little further down the road without losing what’s left of the government’s face is to do something like this. Fire the failed CEO and now they can say something was done. They have to give the new guy another month or two to produces the necessary changes. Probably a smart move and one that perhaps Mr. Wagoner even agreed with.
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March 29th, 2009 at 9:18 pm
If it’s time for Rick Wagoner to go, then it is time for him to go. The only issue I have with it, is the fact that the government is asking him to step down. The government has no business telling a private company how to operate, that is a decision that should be up to the board of directors and the shareholders. I also happen to feel that the government should have let GM file for bankruptcy. The bankruptcy courts can restructure GM a heck of a lot better than the Obama administration can.
Can we say SOCIALISM.
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March 29th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Last week President Obama restated that he was behind the revival of Detroit. He balanced this call of support by mentioning needed “cultural” changes. I knew what he meant when he said this. It is his way of saying that the mind set of the car industry is woefully outdated. And he’s right. Why did GM attain TARP payments in late 2008 rather than proceeding with the standard procedure of restructuring? It is because Rick Wagoner said that he believed no one would buy a car from a company going through bankruptcy restructuring.
Many here at Gm Volt dot com called him on this. We asked why GM’s profit drain wasn’t addressed when they still had $40 billion of their own cash in the bank. We asked why we needed to bail out GM when other stronger manufactures could easily provide enough cars and trucks to supply the market. We asked why the decision to pump billions into ANY private company wasn’t put to a vote of We The People.
So now We The People will finally see a standard restructuring, but only after having blown billions on the wishes of the former CEO. Will anyone learn anything from this event? Or is the U.S. government so disconnected from We The People that future binge spending plans are completely out of our hands.
=D~
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March 29th, 2009 at 9:37 pm
#50 Gregski:
“Eliezer I question your credibility”
—————————————————————————
Ok, how is it that AIG fatcats can keep their million dollar bonuses but GM’s CEO, who agreed to a $1 a year salary, is being forced out by the White House?
I agree that Wagoner should have been let go, but it shouldn’t have taken the input of the Obama Administration to make it happen. If he had left last year, GM would have a lot more respect right now.
And didn’t Buick just win the J.D. Power Award for Quality? Yes, Wagoner helped dig GM into this hole, but the cars they’ve been putting out recenly are a significant improvement over a few years ago. If I’m not credible enough, go check it out yourself.
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March 29th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
I am not a fan of Wagoner, but man have you seen the makeup of the auto advisory group (or whatever they’re called) that made the call on this. None of them know didley squat about the auto business. Whatever grand plan that is announced tomorrow will be wishful thinking. I believe the industry will sort things out in their own way, regardless of all this government interference.
IMO, the next CEO better be good with an axe.
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March 29th, 2009 at 9:50 pm
Details on Plan for tomorrow:
General Motors has a extended 60 days to work with the United Auto Workers union, bondholders and other stakeholders and are getting a undisclosed amount of interim financing. If GM doesn’t get it done, bankruptcy could be used at the end of 60 days.
The administration planned to send a team to Detroit to help with the restructuring during the next 60 days. With Wagoner’s departure, new management would be decided by General Motors’ board of directors in consultation with the government. A majority of the GM board is expected to step down.
—————–
The administration did not view Chrysler to be viable as a standalone company. Under the plan, the government would provide up to $6 billion to forge the alliance between Chrysler and Fiat, but if the companies failed to reach an agreement or find an alternative plan for viability, Chrysler would not receive additional federal aid.
–Chrysler gets up to $6 billion and 30 days to complete an alliance with Italian automaker Fiat SpA.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Sources-Obama-to-give-GM-2-apf-14777617.html
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March 29th, 2009 at 10:06 pm
He could just undercut the competition by 10% and offer to work for .90 cents a year.
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March 29th, 2009 at 10:14 pm
GSBAWFA
the Government Sponspored Bankruptcy Alliance With Foreign Automaker song:
Too big to fail, but too weak to stand….. oh please Signor Fiat, won’t you lend us a hand.
We love central planning, telling all what to do . . . . it’s even better when we cross the atlantic blue.
ehh, that’s as far as I got, you all can take it from here
P.S. but I think the chorus should include “sieg heil the federal reserve” for another splash of international flavor.
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March 29th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
Hopefully President Obama’s crew won’t drop the ball like they did with AIG. I thought this quote was interesting:
“And that’s going to mean a set of sacrifices from all parties involved — management, labor, shareholders, creditors, suppliers, dealers. Everybody is going to have to come to the table and say it’s important for us to take serious restructuring steps now, in order to preserve a brighter future down the road.”
As usual, nobody in the federal government is sacrificing. They all get to keep their corporate jets and perks, including congress’s recent auto-pay-increase.
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March 29th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
It is very sad to see what “the land of the free” has come to. Only a few years ago this kind of government action was seen as only something Vladmir Putin or Hugo Chavez would attempt. Perhaps this is the end of the US as we know it.
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March 29th, 2009 at 10:21 pm
Has President Obama asked the resignation of the UAW’s President? Didn’t think so. Wagner is not the problem. The UAW is the problem.
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March 29th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
I like Obama a lot, but this is ridiculous. Rick Wagoner has made huge strides in getting GM cost-competitive and product-competitive with Japanese automakers, and in pushing GM towards a high-technology future. The fact that he inherited a company that was in a mess because of decades of poor or uninspired management is decidedly not his fault, and he should be judged based on how he’s responded to this crisis.
Who, exactly, does the auto task force propose should succeed him? Why, if he has the confidence of GM’s board, should they be forced to choose someone else – someone in whom they have less confidence – to run the company? If it were Wagoner’s mismanagement that had caused GM to go hat in hand to the government, then fine, but it wasn’t. And I’ll bet you that while all the criminals who actually caused this recession have walked off with multi-million dollar bonuses, Wagoner won’t get even close to appropriate compensation for leaving this post.
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March 29th, 2009 at 10:36 pm
Why does he have to resign? Why is the contracts with the UAW
breached, but you can’t break the contracts with wall street. All the
crooks get a bonus and Wagoner gets the boot because he made a
mistake.
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March 29th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
#72 “Jay”
” . . .Wagoner won’t get even close to appropriate compensation for leaving this post.”
_______________________________________________________
errr, Wags, is that you posting? (his post — this post, freudian slip typo?)
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March 29th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Finally, Obama is thinking to make some change…..
hope there will be big re-org…..
get rid of UAW, poor management…..!!!!
and paid back tax payer money……
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March 29th, 2009 at 11:02 pm
Obamanomics = fascism with another name, nothing less.
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March 29th, 2009 at 11:13 pm
Folks, Rick is the scapegoat, his departure is symbolic to putting the sins of the UAW on the goats head and sending him out to the wilderness to die. If Statik has it right, we just have another plan for a plan and more billions down the hole.
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March 29th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
I said a long time ago that it’s impossible to sell the idea that the company is changing — and to ask for concessions from bondholders and workers — if you keep the management team. I’m not sure that Rick Wagoner is a scapegoat but this had to happen.
Let’s wish him well.
Official terms from the Task Force:
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/business/20090330-gm-chrysler-fact-sheet.pdf
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March 29th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
Obviously you can’t lay all Gm’s problems at Mr. Wagoner’s feet and hope they follow him out the door. The court of public opinion demands nothing less. Ours is a more receptive community to the company’s plight than the general public and even we aren’t in agreement over the CEO’s culpability. Frankly GM has lost a lot of the public’s trust which does show up in their marketshare. The more recent successes have been difficult for people to notice if they weren’t following the company. In this climate it’s hard to see how President Obama couldn’t ask for Mr wagoner’s job. American auto CEO is a much maligned position at present (private jet$, anyone?). Giving money to the same people who got you into the current mess and asking for substantially different results would seem to be absolute lunacy. I think Mr Wagoner will receieve more blame than he deserves but he’s a company man so he can take it. If the best thing he can do at present is signify to the public that changes are being made then so be it. His effect both positive and otherwise will take quite a while to work themselves out of the machine. If GM Has a shot at viability at all they’ll have Mr. Wagoner to thank for it.
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March 29th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
Will #62
Aren’t the bankruptcy courts part of the government? Although I’m not supportive of the federal government sticking their nose in day to day operations, GM and Mr. Wagoner, left them little choice. I still say draw up the framework for the best GSB and bring it to the bargaining table with the UAW, GM management, and the Bondholders repesentatives. Either reach a deal or it’s the GSB. By moving the deadline, the government is giving them deal #3. That is, do little and string out the process for more too big to fail candy. Enough already, time to give or time to go.
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March 29th, 2009 at 11:33 pm
As another point of interest:
The press conference is for 11AM tomorrow morning, and Obama himself is doing it.
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March 29th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
Alright, apparently late night news is the order of the day:
According to a treasury source Fritz Henderson will be taking over as CEO, and interm chairman will be board member Kent Kresa (who used to be CEO/chairman Northrop Grumman)
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March 29th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
DonC #48
Thanks for the link.
Wow, this is truely unprecedented and sad and necessary. There will be hard times for a lot of US citizens. Goliath has been slain and hopefully a smarter, nimbler David takes his place.
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March 30th, 2009 at 12:13 am
One thing the Bloomberg source doesn’t seem to mention but the NYT breaking news alert does is…
“President Obama is scheduled to announce details of the auto package at the White House on Monday, but two senior
officials, offering a preview on condition of anonymity, made
clear that some form of bankruptcy – a quick, court-supervised restructuring, as they described it – could still be an option for one or both companies.”
What does bother me still is that I don’t think GM’s board of directors gets it… they should have booted Wagoner a long time ago (like myself and many others on this site have been saying for a very long time)…. it’s the problem with boards these days, these execs all sit on each other’s boards and it’s just one big “you pat my back I’ll pat yours”.
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March 30th, 2009 at 12:20 am
I can’t believe people dont get this simple point.
Right, the government has no say who is your CEO, the bonuses you pay or anything else, UNLESS you go bankrupt and ask for taxpayer money! Then the governement becomes a stakeholder and yes does have a say in your business. Because they invited them in!
If you don’t want that its simple, run your own business and don’t ask for the governments money. Its not like the government is stepping into profitable businesses and making personel changes.
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March 30th, 2009 at 12:22 am
This a great change. No matter how wonderful the guy was personally, he wasn’t getting the job done.
How about this? Tesla buys GM. GM’s market cap is a little over $2B, so with just a little bit of financing, they could put the deal together. If Elon’s not interested, maybe recruit Steve Jobs to run GM. Apple was a huge mess when he came back in and has managed to whip the place into shape.
Whoever gets the job, the next person should be a technology guy.
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March 30th, 2009 at 12:23 am
” . . .Wagoner won’t get even close to appropriate compensation for leaving this post.”
He already got probably $100 million or more in his years at GM. How much more do you think he deserves for bankrupting the company? A bonus on top of that?
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March 30th, 2009 at 12:31 am
This is definately a nail in the coffin for my money. GM will not get my money now. I refuse to buy from a Socailst company. Obama isn’t doing crap other then show boating his influence to make it appear he has muscle. One can say there’s change but consider his push to Pakistan. Withdrawing from Iraq and deploying to Pakistan is not change. What a bunch of bullsiht we are getting fed. Sure it looks like he made some change in the auto indistry but I don’t see him asking any high ranking jerkoffs from the UAW to get out for a change. I’m done with GM products and I am going to protest by trading in my Tahoe for a Ford. That’s my “Tea Party”. Everyone join in the party.
Go to hell prez, you are nothing but what someone here called you “An Obamination” to us all. Don’t remember who it was but it stuck and if the shoe fits……hope someone throws it at you.
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March 30th, 2009 at 12:35 am
I’m Sorry, you didn’t think I was just going to give you all that money and let you keep running things the way you want to now, did you? Ha Ha, Yea it’s Me your new Leader Uncle Sam you thought you knew me you thought, well never mind that just do as I Command and we’ll all be getting along just fine. Oh and by the way, Ricky you may leave now. As for the rest of you, fall in line and you might be spared…
Good by GM (i wonder if that volt thingy will still happen?) Maybe if it’s deemed good for the State, sure am glad i didn’t put a deposit down yet. Yea I’m not too sure about government sponsored state built government tested state mandated regulations and the colours might all just be that sad sack grey people just need transportation after all that’s all this is about anyway it’s just what the people need.
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March 30th, 2009 at 1:21 am
GM asked, no make that begged the government to step in and make decisions for their company. Now people complain because they don’t like those decisions? Remember GM went bankrupt last Novemeber and only exist today because of that government money.
You can’t have it both ways people, either you want self running company, or a government involved company. But don’t forget GM asked for this to happen.
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March 30th, 2009 at 3:05 am
#78 DonC:
Yeah, I was thinking “scapegoat” originally, but with the comments the government has been making about reducing debt… It’s clear the new CEO has some brutal slashing and burning to do. And has to do it brutally and fast… “Don’t like losing all that you’re owed, debtholders? Great, see if you can get it from the Hummer half of GM that’s left after we spin off the promising bits!” Regardless of how he was doing, Wagoner had to go to make room for some people that will be truly feared and hated.
I worked for a company that pulled that kind of stunt. Layed off half the employees, then sold off all the profitable bits in a lump and and left a hollow shell of the original company with literally 10 people and the name (and screwed shareholders) in a room in the basement to simply prevent breeching prior contracts. And that company wasn’t even losing money overall. It was just the primary VC jerking everybody else around to get the whole piece of pie!
That’s the kind of financial brutality that’s going to happen at GM very shortly.
Coming up at GM, I expect to see either the concessions that would amount to that in the next 60 days or immediately thereafter the proceedings to pull that off. We shall see what happens.
I wonder if Cherry or some other Chinese company is going to swoop in and make a bid for Chrysler? Or simply wait for the Fiat deal to fall through and then buy the distribution network, which is all they really want. Of course, there’s probably plenty of opportunity for a Hummer or Saturn dealer network pickup soon. Ha, that would be kind of ironic if Hummer dealers started selling tiny Chinese cars!!
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March 30th, 2009 at 3:49 am
Happy happy, joy joy, happy happy, joy joy,
happy happy, joy joy, happy happy, joy joy,
happy happy, joy joy, happy happy, joy joy,
happy happy, joy joy, happy happy, joy joy,
happy happy, joy joy, happy happy, joy joy,
happy happy, joy joy, happy happy, joy joy,
happy happy happy, joy joy joy.
Let the wonderful news be spread, the wicked old Rick at last is dead.
OK, I’m happy now.
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March 30th, 2009 at 3:49 am
Oh man,
This pilgrimage to Hamtramack is starting to feel like Homer Simpsons Odessey.
What monsters are we yet to meet before the first Volts roll off the line?
More Sirens?
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March 30th, 2009 at 4:29 am
DonC #78
many thanks for the link. I read it thoroughly and … every thing is said …
The proposed solution is the same as for the banks except that the “green” touch is more present.
Regards,
JC NPNS !! LJGTAWOTR !!
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March 30th, 2009 at 4:44 am
dear mr wagoner we all know its prolly not totally ur fault thecompany is in this bad of shape.. but i got to thank you for creating the volt on ur watch ( even if it doesnt come to production) the new camaro is a dream car of mine also and thanks for tryin to turn the ship around best of luck to ya
p.s.
i hope the new gm ceo will finish bringing them to market(those cars)
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March 30th, 2009 at 5:16 am
BREAKING: OBAMA REJECTS GM’S PLANS–BANKRUPTCY NEARS:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/29950420
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March 30th, 2009 at 5:21 am
Government response , no we dont like that plan . No we dont like that plan either . No we dont like that plan either .
If the government knows how to turn things around , then tell them what you want and they will either tell them that it can be done or no it cant be done and how to do it .
What the government should do is place an order for something like ten to twenty thousand Volt type of cars and advance payment for them . The company GM , should make a commitment to only make cars that use the Volt technology (Chevy Volt , Cadillac Converj , and Buick Electra ) and conventional vehicles that are all Series Hybrid and high mileage with a factory or two to make commercial puck up trucks for business.
No cushy plush pickup trucks for anybody , and no big ugly SUV’s for anybody including the government . Maximum engine displacement at 2 liters . ( good for 200 horse power )
Chrysler should commit to making only the highest possible fuel efficient cars and commercial vehicles , Series Hybrids and Pure Electric vehicles and conventional Work type of trucks and vans , but no luxury SUV’s either .
Ford has already stated that it plans to go Hybrid and Pure Electric with its production in the coming years .
It would be good for the American automobile industry to make the change to high mileage Series Hybrids and Pure Electric vehicles now and lead the world in this technology for years to come .
If the government wants to help , let them place and pay for orders of the new technology and leave the management look after the research , development and production of them .
If I am running a factory that makes cars with V6 engines that get 24 miles per gallon and a customer wants a 4 cylinder Series Hybrid that gets 50 miles per gallon and is willing to pay up front for them , damn it , I will make as many as they want . If the price of fuel is high enough so that the cars are attractive to the general public I will even increase the supply by adding another shift to the production line . After all one client is good , but many clients is a lot better and makes more profit for my company .
An adjustment on the retail price of gas and a known price would help too so I can forecast what my production numbers will be .
Dont blame Rick for this , the blame has to be shared by the government for not setting a price for fuel like they have in Europe . ( $3. would be a good starting price )
It is the American way , dont take the blame for anything , blame somebody else if you can .
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March 30th, 2009 at 6:06 am
http://www.autoextremist.com/
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March 30th, 2009 at 6:32 am
To all the “socialism fearing red necks”, get a grip man! Sacking Rick is COMMON SENSE! 80 billion in 8 years is enough, he doesn’t know how to run a business, isn’t it bloody obvious? Obama is only going to do what Rick failed to do over the past three months, restructure in a hurry. His plan was never going to work. Who was he kidding with a presumption of 10-12million car sales this year? Himself? Even I, as an outsider could see it was going to be far far less, and that was just one point of his plan! Hopefully , there will be more head chopping.
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March 30th, 2009 at 6:35 am
When are they going to contact Statik to head GM
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March 30th, 2009 at 7:21 am
Finally the bond holders and the lousy UAW will be forced kicking and screaming to stop stealing from taxpayers. Watch out doctors, firemen, policemen, teachers, and truck drivers something tells me your next.
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March 30th, 2009 at 7:30 am
102.
Guy Incognito Quotes:
March 30th, 2009 at 7:30 am
Not only is Wagoner out, but so is a majority of GM’s Board as well.
A scathing article in Reuters today, and I quote:
“We are left to look back and say that Wagoner’s appointment as both chairman and CEO in 2003 was little more than an act to ensure the dynasty of GM boardroom arrogance and failure continued.”
-Howard Wheeldon, Senior Strategist at brokerage BGC Partners.
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March 30th, 2009 at 7:59 am
#100 Rashiid Amul said:
When are they going to contact Statik to head GM
========================
…I’m not working for a $1.
Side note: I get royalty payments for any use of the term GSB, or ‘government sponsored bankruptcy’
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March 30th, 2009 at 8:11 am
GM has a statement from Wags up on their media site:
(will post this in current thread as well…but thought it belonged here as well)
GM Message from Rick Wagoner
On Friday I was in Washington for a meeting with Administration officials. In the course of that meeting, they requested that I “step aside” as CEO of GM, and so I have.
Fritz Henderson is an excellent choice to be the next CEO of GM. Having worked closely with Fritz for many years, I know that he is the ideal person to lead the company through the completion of our restructuring efforts. His knowledge of the global industry and the company are exceptional, and he has the intellect, energy, and support among GM’ers worldwide to succeed. I wish him well, and I stand ready to support him, and interim Non-Executive Chairman Kent Kresa, in every way possible.
I also want to extend my sincerest thanks to everyone who supported GM and me during my time as CEO. I deeply appreciate the excellent counsel and commitment of the GM Board and the strong support of our many partners including our terrific dealers, suppliers, and community leaders. I am grateful as well to the union leaders with whom I have had the chance to work closely to implement numerous tough but necessary restructuring agreements.
Most important of all I want to express my deepest appreciation to the extraordinary team of GM employees around the world. You have been a tremendous source of inspiration and pride to me, and I will be forever grateful for the courage and commitment you have shown as we have confronted the unprecedented challenges of the past few years. GM is a great company with a storied history. Ignore the doubters because I know it is also a company with a great future.
http://www.media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=827&docid=53290
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March 30th, 2009 at 9:09 am
I’m surprised and not surprised at the same time.
Surprised because many of Rick’s problems are legacy problems beyond his control. Old labour contracts, old perceptions, etc.
Not surprised because Rick wasn’t a leader with a lot of enthusiasm you can see by just looking at him. Apple’s Steve jobs has enthusiasm. Bob Lutz has enthusiasm.
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March 30th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
The Clueless One needed to look “tough” because of the Polls. So Wagoner is sacrificed for some “tough” talk.
I expect Appointment of a good little socialist Democrat apparatchik, and GM can muddle along on the govenment dole turning out socialist designed Lada’s and their equivalents.
Wow, in less than a hundred days the Obama national socialists have
A) Nationalised the Banking Sector,
B) Nationalised the Automotive Sector,
C) Proposed legislation to nationalise the Health Sector.
E) They signed & approved $4 billion to fund their ACORN Brownshirts.
F) The Obamanations have even submitted an Emergency Powers bill,
That is the equivalent, in every thing but name, to Hitler’s 1933 Enabling Act.
It was that act that authorized the dictatorship, and and killed the democracy that he too was elected under.
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March 30th, 2009 at 2:45 pm
Stas I will go along with the apparatchik, Lada’s, Enabling Act, and maybe the dictatorship. I have got to draw the line on the national socialists. I don’t see the racial purity or Obama as messiah the annointed one yet.
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March 30th, 2009 at 3:50 pm
Of interest:
NEW YORK (AP) — When General Motors Chairman and CEO Rick Wagoner leaves the automaker, he’ll take with him a financial package worth an estimated $23 million.
The terms of General Motors Corp.’s government loans prevent it from giving executives severance pay, but they don’t affect earned pensions.
As of Dec. 31, Wagoner’s accumulated pension was valued at $22.1 million, but he’ll receive that in payments over the rest of his life, so the actual amount he collects might be different.
According to GM’s latest annual report, Wagoner also will receive about $367,000 in stock awards and about $535,000 in deferred compensation.
Wagoner announced his resignation Monday. Obama administration officials asked him to step aside as part of the government’s plan to assist the struggling automaker.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Wagoner-leaving-GM-with-apf-14785896.html?sec=topStories&pos=4&asset=TBD&ccode=TBD
…and yes, that is guaranteed regardless of bankruptcy (its insured). He qualifies for the, “Salaried Retirement Plan” and the “Executive Retirement Plan”
“Most of that will be paid out as an annuity over five years, the remainder is a small lifetime annuity,” GM spokeswoman Julie M. Gibson said in an email earlier today.
He also gets a free car forever, free plane rides and some various other perks, although these…not insured.
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March 30th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
This is why it has become useless to be a shareholder of a major company. As a shareholder you can’t get rid of the clown running a company, you partially own, into the ground.
No, It takes a threat from the President of the US to get that TURD out of the company.
That fact that he even attained that position is proff positive that its not what you know, but who you know.
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March 30th, 2009 at 6:04 pm
It’s about time Red Ink Rick got the boot.
He’s destroyed billions in shareholder value. He’s the worst thing to happen to GM.
Let’s hope another useless slug (e.g. Fritz Henderson) stay the hell away from the captain’s chair.
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March 30th, 2009 at 7:05 pm
Good, that’s what you get for screwing up repeatedly and crushing the EV1.
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March 30th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Lot of armchair CEOs here today! “Man, he just blew it! All he had to do was tell the UAW to give up everything they fought for over the past decades. Easy!”
I would love the see the scared look in the eyes of ANYONE here that was dragged away from their computers and put in Mr. Wagoner’s chair. Just like if one of those armchair quarterbacks where placed behind a modern NFL offensive line. It would go something like this, “Oh my God! I can’t even see over these guys! I think I’m going to die today!” That last comment would be the only thing they were right about.
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March 30th, 2009 at 8:51 pm
Texas is right, you can’t really claim to do better than the other guy if you have never been in their shoes. Still waiting for this President to follow through on his campaign statements…
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