Mar 22
Now That Buick is JD Power Number One Brand in Quality, is it Time for an Electric Buick Electra?
Spyphotos of a next generation Buick Excelle undergoing testing have surfaced. Reportedly this is a new-version Buick built on the same compact Delta platform that the Chevy Cruze and Chevy Volt are.
It is conjectured that this vehicle could become an extended-range electric car as well since it already has the proper architecture.
We have been told by GM executives that multiple Voltec concepts would be shown this year. The Cadillac Converj and Opel/Vauxhall Ampera have already been shown.
Since Pontiac, Saab, and Saturn are being shed as apart of GM’s restructuring, Buick is the best candidate to get the third Voltec car.
The Excelle is a model currently only sold in China, but it is speculated the car could be brought to Europe or even North America.
GM officials have responded to my questions about this as “speculation”.
Recently is was announced by JD Power and Associates that Buick has achieved first place for vehicle quality, tying with Jaguar and upsetting long running number one Lexus.
Since we are imagining here, I will go on record speculating that such a car would be called the Buick Electra.
Source (LeftLaneNews)
This entry was posted on Sunday, March 22nd, 2009 at 7:41 am and is filed under Brand, Voltec. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Mar 22nd, 2009 (7:53 am)… So far GM is following their business plan to the letter, even discussion of the fuel cell vehicle in 2015.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (7:53 am)Lyle says: Since we are imagining here, I will go on record speculating that such a car would be called the Buick Electra.
Well I like the sound of it. Although, wasn’t the Electra a plane that did not do so well?
http://www.celebrateboston.com/disasters/aviation/crash1960.htm
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (8:25 am)Buy a Camaro this year to help support the VOLT for next year.
http://blogs.popularhotrodding.com/6473413/tech/camaro-36l-v6/index.html
https://www.howtobuyamerican.com/store/index.php
A number one brand name puts General Motors back on the map.
If it’s a dependable car you want, look no further than a Buick.
That’s according to J.D. Power & Associates.
Their annual survey of the best of the best, has the General Motors mark listed number one.
Greg Adaline shows us what makes Buick stand out above all the rest.
The latest J.D. Power reliability awards prove GM’s Buick brand is the best in it’s class.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (8:45 am)Humm… Chevy Volt, Opel Ampera, Buick Watt or Volt-Ampere ?
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (9:00 am)I don’t know that it does GM much good to replicate the Chevy Volt with a Buick X and a Cadillac Y. Isn’t that the problem now, too many brands selling virtually the same car? I’d like to see Buick have an EREV, but it should be aimed at a completely different buyer.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (9:18 am)With the virtual shuttering of Pontiac, that leaves Pontiac dealerships to do a ‘change-a-roo’ of lead brands to Buick, so I think it makes good sense (in this case) to do a rebadge/reskin of the Volt.
GM should have its EV offering out of both of its biggest brands/dealership for maximum penetration…and Buick has a good name both here and internationally (maybe moreso).
The only draw back might be that the average Buick owner is about 65 years old (not kidding) and a compact electric car might not be the most appealing feature to this group…guess they could put a ‘faux’ shifter on the steering column and replace the Volt’s ipod dash with some clearly labelled, old school knob and button set-up. We could also see some new features introduced…like a cassette audio ‘upgrade’ and a nicely upholstered, 55/45 split bench in the front.
I’m thinking something like this:
http://users.marshall.edu/~rossett1/cars/buick/inside81.JPG
(I’m just kidding, Lyle. I really do think it is a good idea to make a electric Buick…maybe we can get the average buyer into his 50s, hehe)
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (9:19 am)I think this is a great idea. By the time the Volt hits the market (in limited supply), there will be numerous competitors at the gate with it. Most of us have already expressed plethora reasons why the Volt is superior to these options, but from the first release the Volt will be the higher priced among up and coming companies with a single focus/reputation which doesn’t bode well for a company on the brink. Especially one that took the largest amount of bailout dollars.
If GM has multiple EREV options, they will likely be perceived as the major player. This would command respect and greater consideration; not to mention conveying greater confidence in their own product. I think it will also contribute toward Americans feeling better about our “investment” of bailout money.
My opinion: shrewd, bold move!
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (9:28 am)Statik, I couldn’t help laughing at the “options/upgrades” you listed. Hilarious! What do you think about offering white walls for a style choice?
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (9:47 am)Of COURSE Buick should have an EREV named ELECTRA. It is a storied name and a perfect fit.
And the facility where GM builds it should be called the
Get it? The “Electra Complex” HeeHee. Get it? The Elec….
Electra Complex. Heehee.
OK, just a little Sunday morning humor there folks.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (10:32 am)Also, if we send this link around to friends and family, we just might help GM get back in the black and thus ensure the future of the VOLT:
http://www.freep.com/article/20090320/BUSINESS06/903200331/1019/BUSINESS/Buick+tops+Lexus+in+dependability+ratings
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (10:35 am)They’re going to run out of electric-referencing punn names for electric cars before too long, then what?
I want to buy a ICE car called the “Combusto”
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (10:36 am)#6 statik Says: The only draw back might be that the average Buick owner is about 65 years old (not kidding) and a compact electric car might not be the most appealing feature to this group…
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Actually, most older couples I know have one smaller car, and most have a garage, so I see people in this age group as a prime market for the Volt.
The big problem will be the tax credit. People living on pensions and social security may have money in the bank to buy the Volt, but not enough income to qualify for the tax credit.
Then there are people who make too much income to qualify for the credit because of AMT issues.
For these reasons and more, I think the tax credit should be replaced by a federal instant rebate at the dealer. Not only would this expand the potential market for the Volt, it would also make things much easier for everyone.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (10:36 am)“…such a car would be called the Buick Electra”
How ’bout called the Buick Carmen?
Seriously, Statik brings up a good point about GM that is an issue that has been discussed much. They used to market their brands to attract one generation and carry that generation through life. Some brands were “reset” properly for the succeeding generation, such as Oldsmobile and Caddy struggled until about 10 years ago. Buick has this same issue in this country. It may be time to “reset” Buick to a younger generation and a Voltec version could be the perfect car to start that process.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (10:42 am)Blast from the past:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_Electra
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (10:51 am)#11 Mike D Says: I want to buy a ICE car called the “Combusto”
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Yes – totally retro – make it look like a 1940 Willys Coupe:
http://www.public.asu.edu/~grover/willys/ws.html
This will be the rage in 20 years…
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (11:21 am)Kind of funny that everyone on here is praising the JD power rating when Buick gets a good report, but every other time someone quotes the ratings they are “garbage, baised and full of crap”. You can’t have it both ways folks.
Personally, I always think the CR and JD are good guides to use when car shopping.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (11:23 am)“Since Pontiac, Saab, and Saturn are being shed as apart of GM’s restructuring, Buick is the best candidate to get the third Voltec car.”
Since Hummer wasn’t referenced as being shed as part of GM’s restructuring, how about an electric Hummer?
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (11:36 am)Electra is the name of a Greek goddess who was involved with a murder. (Try Wikipedia) It is a powerful name but one with a mixed heritage of good and bad.
The older Buick Electra was an outstanding automobile. It will be hard for any new car to be other than a disappointment, relatively. Maybe it is better not to bring up “Buick Electra” as a point of reference.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (11:43 am)Kent #17, says, Since Hummer wasn’t referenced as being shed as part of GM’s restructuring, how about an electric Hummer?
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Agreed. Especially since I think all of their vehicles should be Voltec.
But only if it makes a significant dent in the MPG.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (11:56 am)#16 Steven says “Kind of funny that everyone on here is praising the JD power rating when Buick gets a good report, but every other time someone quotes the ratings they are “garbage, baised and full of crap”. You can’t have it both ways folks.”
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JD Power is a random sample of owners. CR is a sample of subscribers. JD Power decides which owners to poll. CR subscribers self-select to respond.
The CR sample provides useful information about the views and experiences of CR subscribers, but it is not an objective view, in the sense of being unbiased.
That is, while we “can’t have it both ways” we can intelligently appreciate the differences in the kinds of information being presented.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (12:02 pm)Why would GM think about making another 4-door E-REV vehicle when it could make a killing with a pick-up, coupe, roadster, or other type of vehicle? DUMB move to offer another 4-doory.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (12:04 pm)#13 koz says of GM “They used to market their brands to attract one generation and carry that generation through life. ”
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It may be that the original concept was to move a given individual or family up through the escalator of brands as they grew older and had more money. Loosely Chevy and Pontiac owners became Buick and Cadillac owners.
That strategy worked well for a long time but came unglued when people began to be more attached to the type of car — sports car, Jeep, SUV, truck — rather than the brand sequence. GM didn’t recognize the change quickly enough.
There is an aspect of it that may still be valuable. As statik pointed out, Buick owners are older, and demographically they have considerably more money to spend. So if they can be attracted to the voltec Buick Electra, they more often have the funds to buy one.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (12:10 pm)#21 Dave B asks “Why would GM think about making another 4-door E-REV vehicle when it could make a killing with a pick-up, coupe, roadster, or other type of vehicle?”
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Basically because their is a group of potential customers out there who want a different label, different suspension, and different interior and who have readily available money to buy the car, if they like it.
An expansion of voltec in one direction does not preclude expansion in another.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (12:16 pm)#6 statik
#12 Dave G
There are a lot of people in that demographic that already have EVs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Thr9ub5mKFM
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (12:50 pm)“I want to buy a ICE car called the ‘Combusto’”
Based on the Ford Pinto chassis, perhaps.
“Buick Electra” is destiny — but it has to be made worthy of the name.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (12:52 pm)The tax credit should be made sellable somehow. Bidding for a transferable tax credit could be make to work extremely well.
New business relationships could come about for other pricey things that you might need to buy in two or three years when Voltec vehicles come out, such as siding for your house.
Transferability applications could be made to be “approved by seller/buyer application” so that retired people don’t get ripped off.
If a very well-known and highly reputable firm that sells a service or something you really need (not at all directly tied to this process, but as a “public-relations introduction” to the Voltec customer, again, not financially tied to the Voltec deal), and such a business wanted to promote “good business relationships” and actually at the same time trim its taxes owing, it would be a terrific thing to do to have a mechanism where people could have federally-protected methods to resell their tax credits. This need not be a complicated thing if it is streamlined toward large and well-known corporations to be able to do this who have a substantial tax liability.
(Yes, smaller firms could participate as well, all of it perhaps through a federally-regulated set of procedures and guidelines). The transferable process could be handled by reputable firms that do e-filing, for instance, and, the final payment, say, may be made directly to GM/GMAC, and could come in the form of the last payments at the end of the loan, or, an overall reduction in the monthly payments once the process has finalized.
Dan Petit Austin TX
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (1:06 pm)List of new electric cars coming to a dealer near you:
- Photon
)
- Electron
- Spark
- Lightning
- Potential
- EMF
- Zap (not to be confused with ZAPP)
- Static (not to be confused with THE STATIK
- Arc
- Volt (already taken)
- Amp (already take, kinda..)
- Current
- Vandagraph
- Coulomb
- Charge
- WattALot
- Resistacator
So many names, so little time.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (1:08 pm)This makes a lot of sense- EREVing the Converj, Volt, and *fingers crossed* Electra won’t be that difficult, since all of them share the same platform. The next step will be the Orlando, hopefully. I hope in a few years non-delta platform EREVs will appear- first in larger sedans, then in SUVs (small CUVs first, probably) and light trucks .
An EREV Electra for the upper,upper-middle class in China (where Buick is insanely popular) would be amazing. BYD can take the upper-middle class- there are plenty of people in China to make both of them highly successful. I also have a vested interest in EV options in China, since I might be working/living there in the future. 中国和美国都要电车！
#6 I don’t know Statik, at least here in California tons of old people would *love* to have a Buick EV, especially if it is quiet. My grandfather is a 87-year-old who is extremely frustrated that he can’t find an EV to buy. Hopefully he can buy a Volt, but I would really like him to wait for a Converj or Electra so he can in effect subsidize my future Volt…when I am able to afford it (I’m hoping gen II but maybe gen III).
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (1:22 pm)http://www.rasertech.com/media/movies/html/fev_jan09.html
Raser does have an electric hummer ready to go – watch the video. Cool!
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (1:24 pm)Hybrid wakeboard boat:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/03/16/aptera-co-founder-launches-hybrid-electric-wake-boat/
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (1:38 pm)Gotta admit, Buick is doing things right with their newest designs. I think the 2010 Buick Lacrosse is probably going to be a POPULAR car. The exterior looks MUCH better than previous designs. GM needs to get the same people who designed this car to work on more future GM vehicles like the Excelle. It looks like Buick is going to come back strong in the next few years.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (2:22 pm)Kool, till last day it was dirty Buick and questions on why GM is having that brand.
Now its Quality Buick !! , what a perception change. The people who say great Buick now should understand the JD power ratings came from last 3 years data and its not just came in a day. So GM started doing good jobs 3-4 years back
Lets see same with all GM cars and not just Buick.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (2:25 pm)#28 ccombs Says: This makes a lot of sense- EREVing the Converj, Volt, and *fingers crossed* Electra won’t be that difficult, since all of them share the same platform. The next step will be the Orlando, hopefully.
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EREV Orlando – YES!
Actually, I would put this ahead of the Buick Electra EREV. A car that seats 6 people and has significant cargo area would expand the potential U.S. market a lot more than than a “me too” Buick sedan. The Orlando uses the same compact delta platform as the Cruze, Volt, and Converj, and the 0-60 time for a micro-van isn’t as important as a sedan, so the Volt’s drivetrain could probably be used directly in an EREV Orlando.
I’m hoping to see an EREV Orlando in 2012. Fingers crossed…
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (2:30 pm)#28 ccombs Says: #6 I don’t know Statik, at least here in California tons of old people would *love* to have a Buick EV, especially if it is quiet. My grandfather is a 87-year-old who is extremely frustrated that he can’t find an EV to buy. Hopefully he can buy a Volt, but I would really like him to wait for a Converj or Electra so he can in effect subsidize my future Volt…
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Does your grandfather pay over $7500 a year in taxes? Would he still buy a Volt, Converj, or Electra without the tax credit?
And just out of curiosity, what does your grandfather think about the Orlando?
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (2:44 pm)The kids here probably don’t know that “Electra” is a name previously used by Buick.
It would be a good name to use again for an Electric powered Buick.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (2:55 pm)If it seats 5, I’m in.
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-1
Mar 22nd, 2009 (3:21 pm)GM is a FAILED corporation.
They will be remembered as a FAILED company since they took handouts to survive.
GM == FAIL
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (3:50 pm)#4, how about Joule? lol.
That’s awesome though. Lets hope it doesn’t take too long to convince other Americans that the quality of our cars actually rival or best those of foreign origins.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (3:52 pm)Lee Iococca #37,
I am surprised you have become such an idiot.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (3:59 pm)Hey! As a 78 year old I’m finally prodded into adding something to this interesting site. I’ve followed it for a long time and found it most interesting. I’m hoping to live and be well enough to have a Volt to drive before I cash either in or out. We’ve had 3 Prii so far. The earliest (2002) traded for a Chevrolet Malibu which a grandson totaled. We have a 2008 Malibu replacement now and so far it is a winner. The 2005 Prius sits in the garage a good deal now because the Malibu is so much nicer to drive and it has been absolutely trouble free. We’ve had around 40 new cars in our 55 years of marriage and it has to be the best. It was bought to try to make a micro, or is that nano, contribution to the GM cause in spite of the fact that we have been long time Chrysler and Nash (aka AMC) supporters.
The Prius is an interesting mechanism and I have been really impressed, but the series electric of the Chevrolet is much more appealing and physically a better configuration. I am one of those who follow this site that hopes the Volt comes to be. My memory of my mother coming to the door in December 1941 to tell my dad and me, sitting in the 1939 Plymouth just ready to go fishing, makes me very uneasy about being in the Prius. Keep the discussions going!
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (4:03 pm)GM is loser, they deserves to be dumped by Americans, no one should buy their vehicle unless they get rid off GM completely and become a new company. Fire the CEO, CFO, etc and Bob Lutz, You folks are c**p.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (4:20 pm)#40 JSTEW,
Thanks for posting! I have a question.
The latest from GM is that the Volt will cost in the mid 30’s ($34,000-$37,000), and there will be a $7500 income tax credit from the federal government.
Do you pay more than $7500 in income tax? If you don’t qualify for the tax credit, would you still be interested in buying a Volt?
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (4:26 pm)#36 KenEE Says: If it seats 5, I’m in.
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An EREV Chevy Orlando micro-van would seat 6. An EREV Buick Electra sedan would seat 4. No EREV would seat 5 because the battery hump takes up the middle of the rear seating area.
You can see the Orlando non-EREV version here:
http://www.chevrolet.com/orlando/
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (4:42 pm)#41 GM Isgood Says: GM is loser, they deserves to be dumped by Americans, no one should buy their vehicle unless they get rid off GM completely and become a new company. Fire the CEO, CFO, etc and Bob Lutz, You folks are c**p.
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Well, Lutz has already resigned, so its pretty hard to fire him. As for the others (including president and COO), they may very well be replaced during the reorganization, which is supposed to happen in 10 days.
Here’s a question for you: If they were all fired, would you then buy a GM car? In other words, would it make any real difference?
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (5:00 pm)#44 Dave G
Are you sure that trying to reason with GM Isgood is a reasonable thing to do?
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (5:07 pm)Dave G:
You better believe it on all counts. My interset in this technology arises out of my background in physical chemistry. Even though I was a crystallographer in real life I have had a lot of interest in things having to do with energy conservation and utilization. I’ve been blessed to be able as we’ve moved around to build three conservation houses and a cabin. The cabin and one of the houses had passive solar another house active. The passive solar house with a ground source heat pump worked out over 11 years to show the HP using under $30/mo for heating and cooling. Year by year kWh: 5178, 4907, 3652, 4772, 4707, 4186, 5211, 5837, 5763, 5596, 4575 for the separately metered HP.
After I lost my university appointment i.e. retired, I had the opportunity to teach an on-line course in electrochemistry. That gave rise to waiting, waiting, waiting, for a 2002 Prius in order to experience it. So you can probably gather by now that I WANT TO LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO EXPERIENCE A VOLT.
Therefore, any tax credit for which we would qualify would be welcome as it was on the Prii, but not a determining factor. I could have bought a Cadillac when I chose the Malibu, but found the Chevrolet cabin and accouterments more to my liking and much more compatible to my depression era mentality of what is “appropriate” for a peasent of Scottish extraction to spend on what I call “incipient junk.” Car salesmen hate that characterization of their “investments.” That mind set was the reason for those Nashes too. We went off Chrysler when they started flogging the hemi V-8s in barges. I should add that, as we call it, Condemner’s Reports always found great fault with our Ramblers, but they served us well.
I am, however really impressed with the progress that has been made with the ICE cars since the ’50s. Those little Nash sixes, with a Borg Warner overdrive would eke out about 23 MPG under the most ideal driving conditions. Whereas this Malibu with much more power in it’s V-6 and a 6 speed automatic transmission great handling and solid feel does overall that amount. Both, however, just through that comparison cry out for the Volt technology. Fifty years and we are just barely advancing? One person on this site always signs off with NPNS I think it is. A good thought.
Hope that little editorial answers your question. Be sure that you and hopefuly many more who follow this site will read Jarad Diamond’s new Book “Collapse.” It gives a long range perspective that suggests much as we love this teckkie stuff we may have other more pressing worries.
Yes, yes Mrs Lincoln, but other than that how did you like the play?
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (5:22 pm)To JSTEW @40
I say to you, JSTEW, God bless you. You are a true American.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (5:26 pm)#46 JSTEW,
I hope you keep posting here. I enjoy reading them.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (5:53 pm)To Lee Iococca @ 37
If you are REALLY Lee Iococca, welcome to this website.
If you are NOT Lee Iococca, then stay off this website. You are committing name fraud, and giving a good man a bad image.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (6:26 pm)#44 Dave G : That was good
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (6:38 pm)From WSJ online tonight “China boosts auto aid” (Emphasis on electric vehicles) small part of a longer article
The latest measures [of govt aid], which also appear to be aimed at restructuring the industry over the long term, include 10 billion yuan, or about $1.5 billion, in research subsidies over the next three years to improve Chinese auto makers’ use of safety, alternative-energy and other technologies.
Wolfgang Bernhart, a senior executive at Roland Berger Strategy Consultants, said the plans highlight a shift in the country’s industrial policy to encourage companies to focus on electric-vehicle technology. The government wants Chinese auto makers to use the relatively low barrier to entry for electric vehicles to narrow the gap with bigger foreign rivals and guarantee the industry’s steady long-term growth, he said
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (7:58 pm)The guy who called me to be fired is obviously an idiot. Here I am reading his/her post from my home at 39** Pleasant Lake Rd, Ann Arbor, and no one in American is more committed to green technology than I am today. GM had made some small mistakes, but surely it will be the leader in green technology and Toyota will be left behind. I will always be an active reader of this forum. Go, Lyle, go babi!
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (8:07 pm)I personally doubt that Buick’s #1 rating in the reliability ratings means what you might think it does.
First is that I doubt JD Power’s sampling is large enough or their survey rigorous enough to support very small differences between brands. For example, most surveys are plus or minus %5 or 10%. In these surveys you have 5 or 10 brands withing this error range.
Second, and more interestingly, I’m thinking the reliability ratings have more to do with drivers than cars. Toyota makes the Lexus, Toyota, and Scion line. Two are highly rated and one is lowly rated. Why the difference? Did Toyota forget everything it knew about manufacturing cars when it started making Scions? I doubt that. Having seen more than my fair share of Scions laying rubber and going like bats out of hell on the freeway, I’m thinking the reason is the drivers — they are very very aggressive. Have I ever seen a Camry, Corolla, or Prius drive that way? Yes, but probably only one. LOL
The report is what it is, and JD Power can make money off of it. But if you really want to know how reliable a car brand is this would be one data point not a definitive conclusion.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (8:21 pm)I think the Volt is fine on its Delta II platform and will be the E-REV fuel economy leader. I also believe it will be possible to get it well appointed, with leather seats, 18″ wheels, and other “goodies”.
The Buick, however, needs to be in another class. That is why I believe it should be on a larger platform, namely, the Epsilon II platform (probably the same and the Converj with its 108″ wheel base versus 105.7″ for Volt). So this would be a larger and more luxurious Voltec product with more style and comfort features, but maybe a little less AER. Perhaps an electric version of the 2010 LaCrosse, as mentioned by #31 GM Volt Fan.
FWIW, last year I drove a 2008 V6 Malibu and placed a deposit on the car. However, when my wife drove the car, she felt it restricted her visibility (she drives an Envoy), had hard seating surfaces, and she was spoiled by dual zone AC control (not available in Malibu). My 7 year old son complained that he couldn’t see outside very well (his head was by the rear pillar).
After driving a Buick Lucerne, all issues were resolved and everyone was happy, so I ordered a 2009 model. The car is library quiet and extremely smooth. It will return ~ 30 mpg in highway driving and has been trouble-free for 6000 miles.
Since the Buick Electra was a rather large and premium vehicle, I think it would only be fitting that the Voltec Electra be larger and more luxurious than the Volt.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (8:53 pm)Dave G.,
The battery pack can be any shape. The “T” can have a well where the middle passengers feet would go. Not seating 5 is marketing madness.
(a 5 seater seats 4 but not vice versa)
Ken
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (9:00 pm)Of interest, the bondholders fired off a letter to the Presidential Task Force today:
Couple things…first thing is they are kind of ticked that no one from either the President’s task force, or GM have said anything (or responded to them) since the March 5th meeting at all.
And secondly, they reiterate the fact that GM’s plan is most likely ‘teh suq’ and that any debt for equity swap is like swapping dollar bills for thing air…ok not quite, but here is the official quote:
“We do not know if the plan would, in fact, keep the company out of bankruptcy (in which case the securities received by the bondholders in an exchange would likely be worthless and the retirement funds and other who counted on these securities would be left with nothing”
Basically, they are opening up their can of ‘whoop-ass’ in front of next weeks deadline…they can feel the waffling (and intense desire to not deal with this problem and let the deadline sail by) in the air, and figure if they play hardball, the government might just open the check book and pay them to go away. (Why not, the US seems keen to pay off other ‘toxic assets’)
You can read the letter here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13553704/GM-Bondholders-Letter-to-Obama-Autos-Task-Force
(I lifted that link from TTAC…because I am lazy, so credit to them)
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (9:44 pm)#52 Bob Lutz
Are you the real Bob Lutz? If so, since you are retiring, you should retire that famous pink tie. Can I have it?
Edit: I suppose Lyle should get first consideration for the pink tie. However, I suspect it would just get in the way during brain surgeries.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (10:51 pm)Statik, I love your posts, they’re almost always insightful, but this time I think you’re incorrect.
The bondholders are posturing and trying to play hardball. I don’t take their note at face value. Here’s what I think: The banksters are all getting a risk-free, fully-subsidized ride (plus millions in bonuses!) from Timmy Geithner; the GM/Chrysler bondholders want the same thing. They want all their investments to be guaranteed by Uncle Sam, PLUS they keep any upside. It’s the American Way, circa 2009.
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Mar 22nd, 2009 (10:52 pm)#55 , Yes i too wondered why the T shape because T will have more surface area and the amount of colling/heating required will be high. I am not sure this shape came from some sort of crash tests.
A regular rectangular shape seems better than this for me so that 5 r 7 seat config can be done. alternate is the in floor design.
Another thought was , it may be nice to move the gas tank to under the hood ( front side ) so more space on back will be free. If the gas tank can be stacked with some chemical which reacts with gas and makes in an inflamable substance in case of emergency (like on event of gas tank temp raise, very high shock etc ) .
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Mar 23rd, 2009 (12:22 am)I’ve owned 4 Buicks. Every one was top notch quality. Still have two of four and sold one recently used to a friend. They just keep going with little maintenance or wear to show. I did buy a Lincoln MKX recently because with only 3 Buicks, the right size, model, features, just weren’t there. Would I buy a Buick Electra? Absolutely. How will GM get a premium price out of a Chevy? No idea.
I bought one Chevy in my life. A Chevy S-10 Blazer. Went right back to Buick and kept on buying them. Quality is Job One is the Buick Motto and I think they achieved that for this American brand.
Mirror images? Well, of the four Lambda CUV models, the Buick Enclave is by far the best and by far the most popular all the time. Since all cars are in essence a mirroring of one another, I don’t see anything wrong with that as long as they differentiate with the brand in mind and end buyer part of that brand decision.
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Mar 23rd, 2009 (4:32 am)People who like Buick will buy Buick. A sub $35,000 Chevy Volt will easily outsell Buick. Give the people what they want.
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Mar 23rd, 2009 (6:16 am)#56 statik — Thanks for the link. I think there best strategy is to continue to hold out. The Obama administration seems to have adopted a plan of avoiding confrontations, so their risk is small.
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Mar 23rd, 2009 (6:17 am)#55 KenEE,
Yes, the battery can be any shape, but the weight has to be low for good handling. The battery also can’t extend too close to the front, back or sides, since this would affect crash safety crumple zones, and could make minor accidents very expensive to fix. The Volt is a fairly small car, so there’s not a lot of other places to put the battery.
Future Volt Generations Will Offer Cheaper, Smaller Batteries, Not Longer Ranges:
http://gm-volt.com/2008/12/24/future-volt-generations-will-offer-cheaper-smaller-batteries-not-longer-ranges/
So you will probably get your 5 seater then.
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Mar 23rd, 2009 (7:41 am)#58 Lurtz said:
Statik, I love your posts, they’re almost always insightful, but this time I think you’re incorrect.
The bondholders are posturing and trying to play hardball. I don’t take their note at face value. Here’s what I think: The banksters are all getting a risk-free, fully-subsidized ride (plus millions in bonuses!) from Timmy Geithner; the GM/Chrysler bondholders want the same thing. They want all their investments to be guaranteed by Uncle Sam, PLUS they keep any upside. It’s the American Way, circa 2009.
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Actually, I am saying the same thing you are, just in less words, lol. I agree 100% with you, they want the gov’t to just step in and pay them off (whether than be directly or guaranteed). They put out a stern note basically saying, we are not idiots, go ahead-go bankrupt, we dare you…or you can pay us off.
/maybe I went around too far around the bush there making my point
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Mar 23rd, 2009 (8:05 am)Buick wins number 1 in quality…for 3 years of use.
Whoop deee doooo.
A vehicle that costs over 20,000 dollars OUGHT to perform flawlessly for a lot longer than that. But they did not perform flawlessly, they just had fewer bad parts than the others SURVEYED.
Hey GM, wanna impress me? RELEASE REAL DATA on the cost of repairs and the days out of service and the resale value of 2006 Buicks against the competition…in 2014 or 2016, when they are 8 and 10 years old, are beyond warranty, and are now entering that stage when repair shops start licking their chops and making out their Christmas gift list when they see me pull into the driveway.
If you want to really impress me, do it for the 2001’s.
this is the beauty of Voltec…repower the vehicle at 60,000 miles, sell the used battery for something, and re-boot the car with a new battery and software, and voilá, I can now afford to send my son to college.
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Mar 23rd, 2009 (9:25 am)Well, Lyle, you may as well join a number of us who have suggested the same Electra name plate for Buick’s Voltec version of the Volt. To me, GM could put the Voltec into a normal looking car like the one shown above and suffer the miles per charge loss due to profile differences. What the heck if the Electra and a Voltec Cruze only got 30 MPC with a standard looking car body. I say GO GET THEM GM!!!!
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Mar 23rd, 2009 (11:41 am)#53 DonC and #65 Eco
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Perhaps the JD Power long-term use report should not be the final word that Buick (and Jaguar) quality has arrived. But certainly it is quite a development in the context of the conventional wisdom.
Harkens back to the 70’s and early 80s when conventional wisdom doubted the Japanese had turned things around from producing woeful automobiles to somewhat more reliable machines.
Just another phase, brought about by competition and focus.
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Mar 24th, 2009 (4:37 pm)#3,
I’m with you all the way on buy American, especially in this economic envronment. When I’m out to buy something I do heavy research to see if I can buy an item made in the USA….needed a drill/driver and found a Makita (at least it’s assembled in the US) at a great close-out price and it is better quality than most of the imports (particularly the cheap ones)….even Craftsman power tools arent made in the USA any longer.
Sorry to stray from the Volt/GM/EV’s but #3 inspired me to go on this tangent.
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Mar 25th, 2009 (6:51 am)#5
MarkinWI
Yes! You are correct. Unless there is a real substantial difference in the size, performance, or options, the rebadging of the same vehicle needs to stop.
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Mar 25th, 2009 (2:14 pm)Interesting discussion about JD Powers having Buick at the top as the latest Consumer Repors car issue has the big 3 + Suzuki in the bottom 4 positions for reliability.
I guess it all depends on who you question/poll/survey as to what answers you get.
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Mar 26th, 2009 (4:01 pm)Gary,
Precisely!
JD Power has one set of protcol, CR has another. They give divergent results.
Neither mean squat when everybody is doing good and we are reduced to splitting hairs. This “quality equality” condition is exactly when different protocols/sampling populations can produce divergent results. If anything, the combination of JD’s and CR’s data SHOWS that the domestics are right there in quality with the imports; there is no systematic difference. Just driver differences, at this point.
The import buyers just keep drinking the CR koolaid and want to use resale value as the measure of quality now. That’s no more than an import owner selling to a koolaid-drinking import buyer. It means nothing.
The buyer of the newer, mildly used domestic car, whose “resale value” is depressed by quality misperceptions, is the real winner.
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