Mar 18

Jay Leno Thinks Chevy Volt Superior to Prius

 

Television superstar and host of the Tonight Show Jay Leno is well-known to be a car enthusiast. In fact he is an ardent fan of electric cars in general. Reuters had a chance to talk with him about his upcoming free concert in Detroit on April 7th, called the Comedy Stimulus Package. The reporter asked Jay about the Volt and shared this material with us here. It is not published anywhere else.

Q: (Reuters) Are you in line to get a Chevy Volt?

A: (Jay Leno) I’m going to go by and drive it and test it. Right now, I’ve got the Equinox, the hydrogen car. It’s not mine but I’ve had it for about a year and I put about six or seven thousand miles on it. I’m kind of a geek and if there’s any problem I write it down in the notebook.

Q: How has the Equinox been?

A: It’s been incredible. The only downside is that it’s about a 20 minute wait for a fill-up, so bring a book. But that’s only because the infrastructure is not here yet so it takes a little longer to fill.

Q: Do you think you’ll be one of the first to test drive a Volt in real-world conditions?

A: I would love to be. I would love to try it. I think it will be great. I think you’ll find that the Volt will be a superior package to the Prius.

This entry was posted on Wednesday, March 18th, 2009 at 5:59 am and is filed under Public Opinion. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 190


  1. 1
    Jason

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:11 am)

    Leno is a great candidate for testing the Volt. He would bring the car to a mass audience. However, Lyle is a MANDATORY test driver. GM would be remiss to pass on our host.


  2. 2
    gsned57

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:12 am)

    smart man! How can you argue with 40 miles AER with a backup ice assist? My wife’s Prius is great but that technology is so 2000′s. Can’t wait for the upgrade


  3. 3
    FME III

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:21 am)

    To bad Reuters is an overseas news agency. Were it an AP story, it would get much broader distribution in the US.

    As for the Leno’s comments, he’s preaching to the choir. Of course the Volt is superior to the Prius.

    Curious, though, that matter-of-fact tone when he said of the Volt, “I’m going to go by and test it.” I’d like to know what he meant by that. Near term, or once it comes out?

    And YES! Lyle deserves to drive a mule.


  4. 4
    nasaman

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:26 am)

    Congrats on this scoop, Lyle!

    Although most people see the Equinox as being very different from the Volt, I remember when you drove an Equinox in NYC, Lyle, and were very impressed by it. If I remember correctly, the Equinox’s electric drive train is actually very similar to the Volt’s (its traction motor torque and horsepower is nearly the same and it drives the front wheels). I think of the Equinox’ fuel cell as simply an analog to the Volt’s generator/battery subsystem — i.e., it generates electricity to supply the traction motor.

    So, adding Leno’s year-long favorable driving experience to your own impressive test drive of an Equinox, I’m really PUMPED!!! When Leno says the Equinox has “been incredible”, and that “the Volt will be a superior package to the Prius”, he’s definitely not joking!!!


  5. 5
    BillR

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:30 am)

    Seeing as Jay is an enthusiast, its always good to get an auto endorsement from him.

    As far as Lyle’s test drive, it will probably be sometime this summer, once the integration vehicles are built, that Lyle will get a test drive. This will be better for PR than driving a mule with a Cruze interior, Cruze exterior, and a mountain of wires and instruments scattered all over the vehicle.

    Regarding hybrid sales, here is an interesting story on the consumer switch from hybrids to conventional cars in only 6 months time.

    http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hybrid17-2009mar17,0,6682265.story


  6. 6
    Exp_EngTech

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:35 am)

    Jay Leno has a great knowledge of cars and their history.

    Unfortunately, that “Volt vs Prius” statement is going to fire up the multiple rabid Prius fans who lurk on this site with nothing better to do then trash the E-REV / Voltec vision of a gasping GM.

    Bash ON……


  7. 7
    FME III

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:42 am)

    Off topic: Check out the lengthy video interview with Denise Gray at EV World. Gives the fullest explanation yet on why GM chose LG Chem ove A123.

    http://www.evworld.com


  8. 8
    Starcast

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:49 am)

    The Volt better be better then the Prius.
    The prius is crap way to slow for the average person. I rented one in Florida and took it back after 2 days. Way to slow getting on the Xway.


  9. 9
    joe obrien

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:59 am)

    Mules are mules, they are just test beds. Lyle got to drive a proper Tesla, so lets just wait and let him drive a proper Volt demo. That way we all can know somewhat to really expect.

    I’d personally rather see him drive an assembled close to production Volt, than just a simple engineering mule.

    We’ve waited this long, paitence people, the good things will come. If a mule was driven, then we still wouldn’t really know how the real thing is, because the mule can be tweaked for whatever scenario is needed.


  10. 10
    Dave B

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:00 am)

    A little good news for GM never hurts. Nice that star-power is supporting it in its time of need. If only it could get these stars to purchase a GM vehicle instead of GIVING it to them for test drives… hm………


  11. 11
    RB

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:01 am)

    #4 nasaman said of the Equinox’s similarities to the Volt–” …its traction motor torque and horsepower is nearly the same and it drives the front wheels…”
    ——————————————-

    Does the Volt have front-wheel or rear-wheel drive?


  12. 12
    JohnL

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:03 am)

    I’m not going to bash anyone, I don’t own a prius or any hybrid. But I’ll judge which is ‘way better’ when I can see, feel, and drive both. I don’t need Jay Leno or anyone else to tell me which is better.


  13. 13
    jeremy

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:04 am)

    im glad jay leno is supporting the volt everyone totes prius like its king chit arounsd the green circles right? when jay leno said that comment he might be hinting at the volt will enthrall even more greenies then the prius over all.. i hope that will be the case and the volt will be super massed produced lol


  14. 14
    Dave G

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:04 am)

    #6 Exp_EngTech Says: Unfortunately, that “Volt vs Prius” statement is going to fire up the multiple rabid Prius fans who lurk on this site with nothing better to do then trash the E-REV / Voltec vision of a gasping GM.
    ————————————————————————————–
    The problems with the Prius are:

    1) Toyota doesn’t really seem to be interested in selling plug-ins. Third party conversions have been available for years, and Toyota is just now thinking about limited fleet testing.

    2) Building 40 miles of all-electric range into the Prius would require a major re-design (powerful induction motor, new chassis to house the battery).

    But we here shouldn’t dismiss the hybrid-synergy drive. If they were to have 40 miles of all-electric range, a Power-Split-Device between the ICE and the wheels could be more efficient.

    Bottom line: It’s the 40 miles of all-electric range that’s important. Details like series hybrid vs. parallel hybrid are academic. If there was some sort of Prius with 40-miles of AER, then it would compete well against the Volt.


  15. 15
    RB

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:04 am)

    #9 joe obrien said, of Lyle driving a Volt “I’d personally rather see him drive an assembled close to production Volt, than just a simple engineering mule.”

    ——————————————————-

    Or maybe Lyle could drive both of them. Other outside people seem to have been driving mules. At the same time, I agree with you that it’s important for Lyle to “report to us” on an almost-production version of the Volt.


  16. 16
    CDAVIS

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:10 am)

    ______________________________________________________
    Jay Leno endorsing the VOLT (if he likes the VOLT…he is known for giving “honest” reviews) would be a huge endorsement for the VOLT. Jay is highly respected among gear-heads.

    FYI, that car in the above photo Jay is riding is a Baker Electric. Here is an article Jay wrote for Popular Mechanics talking more about the Baker and electric cars in general:
    http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/jay_leno_garage/4215940.html

    Here is Jay Leno’s review of the Tesla Roadster:
    Article: http://www.carzi.com/2007/07/09/the-tesla-roadster-reviewed-by-jay-leno
    Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=losARumf2Us&fmt=18
    ______________________________________________________
    Electric Cars + Nuclear Power = American Energy Independence!
    ______________________________________________________


  17. 17
    Dave G

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:14 am)

    #11 RB Says: Does the Volt have front-wheel or rear-wheel drive?
    ————————————————————————————–
    The Volt has front-wheel drive. The area where the rear-wheel drive-shaft would fit has been replaced by the battery pack.


  18. 18
    Guido

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:39 am)

    Shifting gears a minute – I’ve seen a number of new Camaro’s running around town ( Detroit ) over the last few weeks – brilliant colors … burnt orange, canary yellow, and brilliant lines, with 29 mpg hwy for the V-6. I can’t see how this car isn’t going to help draw some traffic into the showrooms. Too late ? Maybe not – the timing of this introduction may end up being very good for GM. An absolutely beautiful car!


  19. 19
    Rashiid Amul

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:43 am)

    Jay Leno says,
    I think you’ll find that the Volt will be a superior package to the Prius.
    ——–
    But of course. ;)


  20. 20
    Shawn Marshall

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:46 am)

    Capn Jack
    There’s our tin lizzy with a battery pack!!!!


  21. 21
    statik

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:46 am)

    “I would love to be. I would love to try it. I think it will be great. I think you’ll find that the Volt will be a superior package to the Prius.”

    In other news, the Cruze will be a superior product to the Cobalt…and most electric cars produced a decade after the Volt, will also be a ‘superior’ package.
    =======================
    =======================
    #4 nasaman said:

    “So…he’s definitely not joking!!!”
    —-
    Oh no you didn’t.


  22. 22
    Dave G

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:52 am)

    #7 FME III Says: Off topic: Check out the lengthy video interview with Denise Gray at EV World. Gives the fullest explanation yet on why GM chose LG Chem ove A123.
    http://evworld.com/EVWORLD_TV.CFM?storyid=1667

    ————————————————————————————–
    Thanks for the link!


  23. 23
    Tagamet

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:52 am)

    I tried several times to get Lyle on all the late-night talk shows. Obviously, no luck (YET). I’m hoping the human interest issue of what Lyle has (and continues) to do, makes him a much better choice than anyone other than maybe Lutz’s wild west, shoot from the hip patter
    Be well,
    Tag
    LJGTVWOTR**********NPNS**********7/4/2010 or bust, er strike that one.


  24. 24
    Shawn Marshall

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:52 am)

    CD like a mainsail.


  25. 25
    NZDavid

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:58 am)

    I originally left this in the last thread, but because of the continued ‘Why doesn’t GM just use NiMH batteries to start with?’ comments I thought I would re post here:

    NiMH batteries cannot be made without Lanthanum. From the following GM had no choice but to go with Lithium.

    JL: Toyota’s research center for North America is right near me. So I see these guys in the drug store and meetings and ask why they are investing in Vietnam. They say the Vietnam government has assured them it wants this kind of mining to happen, and they need the material. They also said they’re very, very concerned about the Chinese cutting off the world from rare earths, which they’ve said they’re going to do. They’re raising the export tax, they’re reducing allocation, and there’s a prediction that Chinese domestic demand for rare earths will equal Chinese production in 2013, which means no more exports.

    Toyota knows it needs a safe, reliable source of rare earth metal. Now why don’t they come to the U.S., which in 1994 was the world’s largest producer of rare earths? Because it feels the regulatory environment here and the political environment is so anti-mining that there’s no point to it. In the U.S., we have a company called Molycorp, which was owned by Chevron until two months ago when it was sold to a group consisting of Resource Capital of Denver and Goldman Sachs, the financier, in New York.

    In 1994, Molycorp’s mine in Mountain Pass, California, was producing 100% of the United States’ needs of rare earths and 34% of the world’s. It was shut down in ’94 because the Chinese came roaring into the market with low prices and put them out of business. Beyond that, there’s only one other rare earth source in North America—a private company called Thorium Energy, which has deposits of rare earths and the metal thorium in Lemhi Pass, Idaho. Thorium is looking to finance it or sell it to a developer. That’s it for North American rare earth sourcing.

    Toyota has been so aggressive in sourcing the rare earth metals (lanthanum, in particular), no other car company in the world outside of Japan has an opportunity to go with the nickel metal hydride battery for use in a hybrid car. It’s not about how much there is—it’s about how much is produced. And the amount produced is now insufficient to satisfy the Chinese domestic market and Toyota alone. Japan’s demand for rare earths this year in the summer was projected to be 40,000 tons of total rare earths; however, China has allocated only 38,000 tons for the entire world this year.

    http://www.stockhouse.com/columnists/2009/jan-1/9/rare-earth-technology-metals-face-severe-shortages


  26. 26
    sudhaman

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (8:14 am)

    it is true that prius is goanna be inferior to volt . the chevy spark can give 50 mpg and prius gives with hybrid. the chevy spark is goanna be better than prius


  27. 27
    NZDavid

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (8:14 am)

    FME 111 @ 7

    Thanks for the link, very informative.


  28. 28
    k-dawg

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (8:47 am)

    #11 FME III Says:
    March 18th, 2009 at 6:42 am
    Off topic: Check out the lengthy video interview with Denise Gray at EV World. Gives the fullest explanation yet on why GM chose LG Chem ove A123.

    http://www.evworld.com
    ——————

    I didnt know she was a Kettering (GMI) gradudate. That’s where I got my BSEE as well. Good to see she’s doing well.


  29. 29
    Van

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (8:48 am)

    Is the claimed “up to” 40 miles of AER really what sets the Volt apart from the upcoming plug-in Prius? The plug-in Prius will probably sport “up to” 20 miles of AER under 60 mph. If a person’s driving pattern allows recharge most days without ICE operation, then for that person the Volt on the basis of the 40 mile AER would not be way better.

    The next generation Prius is supposed to be a little quicker than the last version, so the Volt and the Prius full throttle performance might be similar, but I expect the Volt to be alot quicker than the Prius in EV mode.

    Will a “major redesign” be required to put a 40 mile AER Prius on the road? Probably, but the plug in Prius expected to go on sale to fleet buyers in December 2009, with an unknown AER, is already in the prototype pipeline. They will make about 500 of them this year.


  30. 30
    k-dawg

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (8:55 am)

    I think EFLEX sets the Prius and Volt apart. Thus the beauty of a series hybrid. It also paves the way for the next step which is a pure BEV.


  31. 31
    Shawn Marshall

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:06 am)

    25 NZDavid

    Dynamite Post – you should be paid for that


  32. 32
    charlie h

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:06 am)

    Leno is entitled to his opinion.

    An earlier poster mentioned a new article on EVWorld. When you surf to EVWorld, on’t overlook this article:

    http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1652

    On page 2, note the references to fuel economy achieved. What’s the significance of that? It decreases what you might call the window of economic viability for competing options in personal transportation.

    Or this one:

    http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1661

    GM is not the only domestic company making moves in EVs and related technologies.


  33. 33
    Dave G

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:10 am)

    #29 Van Says: The plug-in Prius will probably sport “up to” 20 miles of AER under 60 mph.
    ————————————————————————————–
    This goes against everything I’ve heard in the press.

    Form what I understand, the Toyota Prius plug-in will be an option on the Prius. This option simply replaces the existing NiMH pack with a Li/Ion pack of the same size and shape. The result is a plug-in Prius with a 10-mile range.

    Also, the gas engine will come on whenever you accelerate significantly or travel at highway speeds. So it’s really not an electric range but rather an electric boost. That’s why most people advertise the Prius plug-in as 150MPG for the first 10 miles.

    To put all this into perspective, with a typical driving pattern, assuming you only charge overnight:
    Vehicle ……………… Gallons per year
    Volt …………….…….. 37
    Prius PHEV-10 …….. 182
    Prius HEV …………… 228
    30 MPG car ………… 380
    20 MPG car ………… 570

    So you can see that the Prius with 10 miles of electric boost doesn’t really save that much gas over a regular Prius.


  34. 34
    ThombDbhomb

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:11 am)

    #29 Van

    “The plug-in Prius will probably sport “up to” 20 miles of AER under 60 mph. If a person’s driving pattern allows recharge most days without ICE operation, then for that person the Volt on the basis of the 40 mile AER would not be way better.”

    That may be true if one’s commute is 20 miles or less. If the commute is 40 miles, then the Volt is better.


  35. 35
    Jackson

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:12 am)

    I’ve actually been wondering what Jay thought — he would indeed be a powerful ally.


  36. 36
    Jackson

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:18 am)

    OFF TOPIC:

    Several people have pointed this development out in recent threads, I’m surprised no one has gotten excited about it. Even if EEStor was real, this would blow it out of the water:

    http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/03/on-path-to-nanocapacitors-with-100.html

    Perhaps it is the up-front admission that fabrication in bulk is a huge engineering challenge which has cooled this news (I believe this is the real reason EEStor continues to be a background enigma: they face similar challenges but don’t want to say so).

    Of special interest in this treatment is the chart comparing different kinds of batteries and capacitors.


  37. 37
    DonC

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:20 am)

    #4 nasaman says “I think of the Equinox’ fuel cell as simply an analog to the Volt’s generator/battery subsystem ”

    You’re right on that the Equinox is an EV. It is. In fact some have speculated that Honda is using the Equinox for the primary purpose of having an EV test bed. You’re also right that fuel cell in the Equinox is analog to the Volt’s battery and gen-set. In this regard, it’s quite possible that the Volt gen-set could be replaced by a fuel cell powered by bio-mass rather than hydrogen.

    That said, the economics of the cars are different. By using the battery GM is powering 80% of the driving from the grid. The Equinox gets 0% of its propulsion from the grid. Since powering from the grid consistently costs less than 1/6th the cost of powering from another source, the Volt should have lower running costs. So the economics of the car are not as similar as their technologies.


  38. 38
    DonC

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:26 am)

    #36 Jackson

    I believe Tagamet provided a cite to this paper a few days ago. It’s interesting but, as you suggest, seemingly at such an early stage that it’s hard to get too excited. Obviously bears watching though.


  39. 39
    Johnny Rotten

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:28 am)

    I am sure he is referring to today’s Prius and not the one that will be available when/if the Volt goes on sale. The Prius doesn’t need to be a plugin at this time because it has no real competition. When other plugins arrive the Prius will be ready. Also never (ever) underestimate Toyota Quality.

    Toyota Quality >> GM


  40. 40
    George K

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:49 am)

    #33 Dave G

    Additionally, as a parallel hybrid, the PHEV Prius can be economical as it puts in an underpowered gas engine with an underpowered electric motor. Together, they make great mileage, though, neither by itself, is as powerful as a standard car.

    So, if your goal is no gas, or as little gas as possible, then your electric motor will be a little anemic, but you can still drive around in traffic.

    Also, the cabin heat comes from the waste energy of the gas engine. So if you’re driving your plug-in in the winter, and you want heat, or your wife wants heat (which is more likely), you burn gas.

    The Volt, however, as straight electric, optimizes the drive train (no transmition). Driving in electric (no gas), is not a sacrifice. It’s the standard way to drive, as is a Parallel hybrid using both power sources working together.

    I love my plug-in Prius. I love just going for a drive again. But, as Dave points out, if burning less gas is your goal, the Volt is the clear winner.

    =D~~~~


  41. 41
    k-dawg

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:50 am)

    is #39 Johnny Rotten = John1701a?


  42. 42
    N Riley

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:50 am)

    Jay Leno knows cars. He has many in his collection and he spends a lot of time with them and with people who knows cars. So, along with many of us here we can now add one more person who believes the Volt is superior to the Prius.


  43. 43
    Arkansas Volt

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:54 am)

    #39 Johnny Rotten

    do you have some statistics or any logic backing up your statement?

    “Toyota Quality >> GM”

    I would love to see the details.


  44. 44
    Adrian

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:00 am)

    Great PR. This is the stuff GM needs not just for the Volt but the GM name. The Hydrogen plug was great.


  45. 45
    Van

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:01 am)

    I do not know the specific energy of the Panasonic battery Toyota will be using. If it has about twice the energy of the current NiMH battery, and is the same weight, then it would have a 2.6 versus 1.3 kWh battery. But if they doubled the weight, then it would have a 5.2 kWh battery. Similarly, if the specific energy of the Panasonic was 240 Wh/kg, then a battery of the same weight could provide 5.2 kWh.
    Assuming the SOC window uses 4 kWh, then at an assumed 5 miles per kWh, the Prius would be a Phev-20. Note that the minimum to get the Tax money refund is 4 kWh. Ring a bell?


  46. 46
    Gary

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:08 am)

    It’s great to get positive endorsements from celebrities. Many actors are known to drive Priuses because they [supposedly] care about the planet, even though heating and cooling their 10,000+ square foot mansions at the same time is an exercise in hypocrisy. Oh well.

    Anyways, once Hollywood stars’ fans see that they’re driving Volts, they’ll want to mimic the same success and drive a Volt as well. The emulate-the-famous rule applies to hairstyles, clothing, catchphrases, home sizes, etc. etc.


  47. 47
    Dave G

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:15 am)

    #30 k-dawg Says: I think EFLEX sets the Prius and Volt apart. Thus the beauty of a series hybrid. It also paves the way for the next step which is a pure BEV.
    ————————————————————————————–
    I think 40 miles of all-electric range is the true differentiator, not the series hybrid design.

    For example, Mercedes-Benz BlueZero E-Cell Plus prototype can deliver 62 all-electric miles,
    http://gm-volt.com/2008/12/13/mercedes-benz-bluezero-e-cell-plus-e-rev-or-phev/
    but the gas engine is connected to the wheels, so it’s not a series hybrid. But with 62 miles of all-electric range, who cares?

    Also, I don’t think the next step is a pure BEV. I think bio-fuels are the next step. Batteries won’t work for planes, ships, trains, and 18-wheel trucks. We’ll need bio-fuels for this. If bio-fuels are necessary anyway, why not also use them to fuel the ICE in EREVs? Why do so many people want to spend $trillions building an all-electric infrastrucutre when bio-fuels are necessary anyway? What’s the motivation?


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:22 am)

    #45 Van Says: If it has about twice the energy of the current NiMH battery, and is the same weight, then it would have a 2.6 versus 1.3 kWh battery. But if they doubled the weight, then it would have a 5.2 kWh battery.
    ————————————————————————————–
    We know that it will be less than 5kWh.

    Last summer, when Congress was debating the PHEV tax credit, the House version had a minimum of 5kWh to qualify. But then Toyota went screaming to their southern senators and got them to lower it to 4kWh in the Senate bill.

    So we know the Prius PHEV has somewhere between 4 and 5 kWh total capacity.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:24 am)

    Driving a car that can get me to work on the highway/freeway solely on electric drive is the key. The Prius can’t do that.

    Keep it simple stupid: The Volt is an Electric Car, the Prius is Not!


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    Ryan P.

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:30 am)

    Has anybody seen the video report on the japanese car that runs on water? Google GENEPAX and look it over.

    (This doesn’t belong here, but the only way I can put anything on this site is by ‘reply’ to someone elses message)


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:33 am)

    As irritated as I get by overpaid “celebrities”, as a “gearhead” myself, it’s really hard not to like Jay Leno. We even see him mingling with the common folks at Autobooks in Burbank, or at the Monterey Historic races, or at various other “gearhead” gathering places, usually driving up in one of his old cars. Which is a lot more than you can say for any of his colleagues that I know of.

    Steve McQueen back in the day, maybe.

    And I NEVER stay up until 11:30 to see his show – sorry Jay. Although I am planning to make an exception tomorrow night, even if I do have to walk around work like a zombie all day Friday. I know – don’t say it!


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    Dave G

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:38 am)

    #40 George K Says: Additionally, as a parallel hybrid, the PHEV Prius can be economical as it puts in an underpowered gas engine with an underpowered electric motor. Together, they make great mileage, though, neither by itself, is as powerful as a standard car.
    ————————————————————————————–
    There’s nothing about the parallel hybrid that forces car makers to use an underpowered electric motor. In fact, a larger, more powerful electric motor is generally more efficient than a smaller motor at the same RPM and power output. This is the exact opposite of a gas engine, so it’s a little hard to get used to at first.

    What’s more, induction electric motors are much smaller, lighter, less expensive, and more efficient than permanent magnet motors with similarly high power output. This is why induction is typical in higher power applications. For example, the induction motor in the Tesla Roadster is 255 horsepower, but only weighs 70 pounds, and is the size of a large watermelon.

    So if Toyota decided to switch to a 100hp induction electric motor, they could probably do all-electric drive in the same space and weight they have now.

    My point in all this is that it’s not series-hybrid vs. parallel-hybrid, but rather the 40 miles of all-electric range that makes the difference. A parallel-hybrid with 40 miles of all-electric would be quite possible, and probably very competitive with the Volt.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:39 am)

    @41 Dave G

    I think series is the key.. 1 source of power (electricity) coupled to the wheels. Simpler = better to me. I think Eflex is the key also because the electricity can come from any source. This is the major difference between the 2 cars in my opinion.

    You mention biofuels. Those are used now. When i say next step, i’m going a little further than that. I’m assuming once the energy density of battery technology increases by orders of magnitude, BEV will be the way. There could be other mini-steps before the battery technology gets there.. any technology that will produce electricity, that is affordable, is feasible in an Eflex series auto. If you are tied to an ICE engine, you can’t say that.


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    ThombDbhomb

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:42 am)

    #51 noel park
    Don’t sacrifice your health by staying up late. You’ve got internet. Use it. The Leno stuff will be on-line. I know, you want to be current and can’t wait until the next morning. Early adopters! Sheesh! Do you camp out for movie releases? ;)


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:44 am)

    Shawn Marshall Says:
    March 18th, 2009 at 7:46 am

    Capn Jack
    There’s our tin lizzy with a battery pack!!!!

    lol…..

    I just want my Volt DANGIT!

    Back to my Kahlua & Coffee…..


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    Tagamet

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:46 am)

    k-dawg@41 said
    “Is #39 Johnny Rotten = John1701a?”

    Seems unlikely. Not strident enough and too short.
    Just my (informed) opinion (g).
    Be well,
    Tag

    LJGTVWOTR**********NPNS**********7/4/10 or BUST, er, no, strike that part


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    noel park

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:53 am)

    #53 k-dawg:

    “simple = better” My Man!!

    #54 ThombDbhomb:

    Not since “Dick Tracy”, LMAO. Just too dumb to TiVo.

    I figure that anybody who doesn’t watch it Thursday night is going to be left in the dust here Friday AM, LOL. I mean, we’re already 3 hours behind the curve being out here on the Left Coast.


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    Van

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:04 am)

    Hi Dave G, four kWh times 5 miles equals 20 AER, not ten, so it seems not “everything” you have read suggests the plug-in Prius will be a Phev-10. :)


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:04 am)

    #53 k-dawg Says: I think series is the key.. 1 source of power (electricity) coupled to the wheels. Simpler = better to me.
    ————————————————————————————–
    The series hybrid has the advantage that you don’t need a transmission, and you can run the ICE at a few fixed RPMs for further efficiency.

    But the series hybrid also has a very large electric generator (which we know very little about), and a lot of complicated electronics and software to control to flow of electricity.

    In the end I can’t say that the series-hybrid is simpler, only that it replaces mechanical complexity with electrical complexity.

    In any case, it’s the 40 miles of all-electric range that makes the difference. If some other car maker came out with a parallel hybrid with 40 miles of all-electric range – meaning a large battery and induction electric motor, then it may compete well against the Volt.

    For example, the Mercedes-Benz BlueZero E-Cell Plus has 62 miles of all-electric range,
    http://gm-volt.com/2008/12/13/mercedes-benz-bluezero-e-cell-plus-e-rev-or-phev/
    but the ICE is connected to the wheels by a Power-Split Device, so technically it’s a parallel hybrid. The only problem with the Mercedes-Benz BlueZero E-Cell Plus is that there is no announced price range or production date.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:10 am)

    #58 Van Says: Hi Dave G, four kWh times 5 miles equals 20 AER, not ten, so it seems not “everything” you have read suggests the plug-in Prius will be a Phev-10
    ————————————————————————————–
    Actually, it does. The Volt has a 16kWh pack, of which 8kWh is usable. If the Prius has a 4kWh pack, I would assume it also needs 50% for charge sustaining and end-of-life issues, so that leaves only 2kWh usable, which corresponds to a PHEV-10.

    Besides, when Toyota announced the fleet tests, they said it was a PHEV-10.


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    D.

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:10 am)

    Off topic- (sorry about that, folks)

    Big Oil (American Petroleum Institute)down but not out, trolling the internet for slack-jawed support, advertising on this site of all places. What a hoot. Clueless, and with brass cajones. And definately criminal! Your members otta be tried and convicted and imprisoned from crimes against humanity and nature- From the destruction of Prince William Sound to support for the criminal invasion of Iraq, to paying junk scientists to deny global warming, you even had a hand in killing the EV1 technology (chevron? buried the NiMH battery technology)
    - not free to make even more mischief- advocating for the destruction of the final bits of pristene wilderness in the US. Off with you!

    my 2 c.


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    Mike-o-Matic

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:22 am)

    At least Jay seems to know more about how the Volt works, than does David Letterman. A few weeks ago Letterman was discussing the Volt on-air with an interviewee, and made a remark that the Volt’s range will be 40 miles… completely ignoring the whole idea of a range-extender. Obviously he didn’t know what he was talking about, but that has never stopped him before, and it didn’t this time either! He made it sound like after 40 miles you’d be waiting for a tow truck.

    That kind of ignorance prevents people from accepting new ideas. It’s bad for all of us.

    If anybody has a clip of that interview, or remembers it better than I do (heck, I can’t even remember whom he was interviewing, just his remark, because it ticked me off so much)… by all means please post a reply or a link.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:23 am)

    #23 Tagamet

    If you could get Lyle on Jay Leno’s Tonight Show after Leno makes his trip to Detroit and drives the Volt, that would be a good time. Maybe Leno could have so film of the drive and show it. Follow the film up with a short talk with Lyle and cover the nearly 50,000 members of this site. Are you really able to pull something like this off?


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:23 am)

    #52 Dave G
    “There’s nothing about the parallel hybrid that forces car makers to use an underpowered electric motor.”

    Except cost. It would be too expensive to have a full sized motor(requiring more voltage, and other stuff- sorry, I’m not an engineer) and a full sized gas engine in the same car. The beauty of a parallel hybrid is you can have a smaller than required motor and engine, since they each can relay on the other to help out in acceleration, etc..

    The Volt, for example, has a full sized motor and is will be able to go to a 1 liter or smaller engine, which will be cheaper and lighter.

    The next gen Prius, however, is going to a 1.8L to help fuel economy as well as acceleration. That will bring it closer to a standard car (in acceleration).

    Also, many people aren’t aware of the fact that when a Prius starts out, w/i 7 seconds, the engine comes on to warm up the pollution stuff. This is in case you need to accelerate quickly, requiring the engine to assist the motor. If the pollution stuff were cold, emissions would go way up! So, as well as providing cabin heat, the gas engine has to always keep the cat converter up to temperature.

    So, if no gas is your goal, in my opinion, a 40 mile Volt will always beat a 40 mile parallel hybrid.

    =D~~~~


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    stealth in J'Rahm Age

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:32 am)

    There is good and bad in all things. The Engineer/Designer uses rules of thumb to guide the decision making process.

    Mechanical vs Electrical transmissions:

    Parallel to me means you have a mechanical path between the wheels and the engine. Calling the Prius series-parallel is just meaningless. The Prius has a mechanical path so it’s a parallel hybrid – Period. The volt doesn’t have mechanical path so it’s a series hybrid – Period.

    Think of a kid on a bicycle that only has one gear. Getting started is hard! However, this is such a low power situation even the smallest child can just live with it. Once the bike is moving the RPM mismatch isn’t a problem. Can you honestly imagine replacing the simple chain on a bike with two electric motors? It might be good in many ways but a cost effective investment isn’t one of them.

    Here’s some homework for you, think of larger and larger vehicles: adult bicycle, motor cycle, small car…, trains. At each step up the “get moving” problem becomes harder to just live with. We keep adding more and more “gears” to help. Your assignment is for you to decide for yourself at which point the electric transmission becomes “worth implementing”.

    Above 15 mph mechanical transmissions have a cost, weight and efficiency advantage. So the decision to use a mechanical transmission is obviously a good one as long you can deal with the “get moving” problem without adding too much cost, weight and inefficiency.

    Volt vs Prius APPROACH:

    I’m not comparing the cars themselves although that is obviously what consumers will be doing. I’m comparing the two basic approaches of getting what we want from a car. If we keep everything else the same then any change in outcome is easily attributed to the one variable input with allow ourselves. Let’s ‘Voltize’ the Pruis.

    It seems obvious to me that if we start with the Prius but put in the Volt’s electric motor, battery and engine then the total cost of this new Prius would be about the same as the Volt. The BEV range would be about the same. The HEV mode MPG would be about the same. If the core technology is the same then basic measurements of cost, weight and efficiency would all be the same.

    The one difference I’m leaving is that the Volt has one 75-HP generator while the Prius replaces this with a smaller generator and single planetary gear. Does the Prius approach still have the cost, weight, efficiency advantage? Yes… but not enough for anyone (particularly a consumer) to care about.

    The difference is this Prius would have more HP available at the wheels. Remember our Voltized Prius has the same 150-HP electric motor and the same battery, so BEV performance would be the same. But this Prius also has mechanical path for the 75 HP engine. You could have 225 HP at the wheels if you want it.

    Or this Pruis designer could downsize the electric motor thus trade HP for a cost and weight advantage. This would make the cost, weight advantage more obvious to the consumer.

    A NEV is a neighborhood electric vehicle. It is a BEV with a limited acceleration, limited top speed and limited range. Range is controlled by the battery, which is same in my Voltized Prius, so we can ignore that aspect.

    If we downsize the electric motor we can no longer have a true BEV mode. Instead you’re forced to accept a NEV mode with lesser performance. Maximum performance in HEV will always be greater then pure EV mode.

    So the difference in choosing between the Volt and Prius approaches is simple. Do you want true BEV mode? If yes, choose the Volt and live with the cost, weight and efficiency disadvantage. If you can live with a NEV mode then cash in on the advantages. Or for the same cost, weight, BEV performance you can play the superior HEV performance card and sell to a larger market.

    Li vs. NM

    Li wins. This is simply because it is dominating the rechargeable market. When we see hydrogen fuel cell being used in lap tops, cell phones and forklifts in warehouse, that’s when we consider using them in cars. Hydrogen hasn’t passed this test yet; Li has. LG was the wise choice because they were the safe choice. Their chemistry is already out-there in the real world. The company’s ability to supply is also proven in the real world.

    Plug or No Plug

    I own a trickle charger for the 12-volts in my cars. Every rechargeable battery I have ever owned has had a recharger. It is insane to think the largest rechargeable battery I will own won’t have plug as at least an option. Even if Toyota is right and half of America would be better off with a non-plug hybrid, doesn’t that mean the other half would be better off with the plug.

    2010 Prius

    Some future version of Prius will have a plug and Li based batteries, a NEV mode and an AER of 10 miles. All of this is a good thing; better than the 2004 Prius. But to me it represents the minimum acceptable future. Is Volt with a full fledged BEV mode better? Is the AER of 40 better? Of course it is. But the Prius isn’t the finish line. Getting ahead of Prius with a “2 is bigger than 1” mentality isn’t winning.

    The failure of the Prius is that its success is a death trap. When Toyota talked about spinning the Prius off into is own brand they admitted they would need to water-it-down. The success the Prius is not sustainable outside the Prius itself. And unfortunately for Toyota the Prius isn’t a cash-cow. Toyota must move forward but can’t move forward. To make money off the Prius they must kill the Prius. Betray its legions of followers by selling them something that is Prius in name only.

    GM wishes it had Toyota’s problems. Any one would rather be the company that can’t capitalize on it successes then the company with no successes. The strength of Voltech is in the business model not its technology. It the ease with which any new car be designed around it platform. The ease of switching to new battery chemistries. The ease of switching the engine/generator for marketing in different parts of the world. All this “easiness” comes at a price which must be paid up-front. It makes the Volt technology look bad in a direct comparison with the Prius. But the Prius isn’t the finish line.

    The Prius is a success in every possible way except the one a company really needs. Voltech can pale in comparison in every possible way as long as it succeeds in the one way GM really needs it to succeed. GM is going restructure. It will be painful. But if GM is restructured to be a lean mean car-building machine then I think the Voltech business model needs to be a part of the strategy.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:32 am)

    #64 George K Says: It would be too expensive to have a full sized motor and a full sized gas engine in the same car.
    ————————————————————————————–
    Isn’t that what we have in the Volt?

    I think you may be underestimating the cost, size, and weight advantages of an induction motor over a perminent magnet motor like the Prius uses. I don’t have any specific data, but I would guess that an induction motor of the same physical size and weight would produce roughly twice the power of a perminent magnet motor. The main drawback of the induction motor is the software complexity. More info here:
    http://www.teslamotors.com/blog4/?p=45


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:32 am)

    #25 NZDavid

    Thanks for the information about rare earth metals. The one good thing about all of this (if it can be considered good) is that the U.S. will still have our rare metal resources when China and other countries stop producing or selling on the world market. At some point it has to become profitable for mining to happen in the U.S. We do have one of the worst (probably the worst) environmental situations in the world. It is a regulatory mess and is projected to get even worse with the new administration putting on more restrictions and taxes. I understand there are over 2 trillion dollars of new industrial taxes in the new budget. The consumer may get a $13.00 per week tax cut but will have to pay for all the new taxes on industry and the environment. If I were the average taxpayer, I certainly would not plan new spending for that $13.00.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:40 am)

    #64 George K Says: Also, many people aren’t aware of the fact that when a Prius starts out, w/i 7 seconds, the engine comes on to warm up the pollution stuff. This is in case you need to accelerate quickly, requiring the engine to assist the motor.
    ————————————————————————————–
    Again, this is particular to the current Prius design, and not to parallel hybrids in general.

    If Toyota built a Prius-like car with a more powerful induction electric motor, then there would be no need for the ICE to prepare to assist with acceleration.

    For example, the Mercedes-Benz BlueZero E-Cell Plus has 62 miles of all-electric range,
    http://gm-volt.com/2008/12/13/mercedes-benz-bluezero-e-cell-plus-e-rev-or-phev/
    but the ICE is connected to the wheels by a Power-Split Device, so technically it’s a parallel hybrid.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:42 am)

    #66 Dave G.

    Got to get back to work. Thanks for the link. I’ll check it out this afternoon.

    =D~~~~


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:48 am)

    N. Riley@61 re my being able to “pull off” a Leno visit for Lyle:

    I have absolutely no reason to believe that I can pull that off. However, I’m absolutely certain that I can’t do it, if I don’t try. In fact, that kinda goes for everyone here. If Leno got 50 thousand letters/contacts, I’ll bet the odds would go up (g).
    Be well,
    Tag

    LJGTVWOTR!! **********NPNS


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (12:05 pm)

    #65 stealth in J’Rahm Age,

    Excellent post.

    One point: With a parallel-hybrid, you could potentially shrink the electric motor to say around 85hp-100hp and still have all-electric range for the vast majority of your driving. In other words, use the gas engine in parallel only during unusually extreme acceleration or uphill driving, or after the all-electric range has expired.

    But in the end, serial vs. parallel doesn’t matter as much as how the car maker executes the design.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (12:08 pm)

    Circa 11/1/2010

    Two smug looking gearheads pull up to the light and glance at each other with a singular look of self pride. They had been waiting for this moment for more than two years and now it had finally come. Time to lay down their green cred and see who made the better choice. The light turns green and both accelerators get mashed to the floor. One car jumps to the lead in near silence. The other car roars to life with the echoing sounds bursting hydrocarbons formed eons ago. As the lead car continues to pull away quietlytly the driver looks over his shoulder. He sees clearly through the unpoluted air lightly swirling behind his car to his competitors car and the faint hint of polution trailing behind it. He turns back to face the road ahead with a comfortable smile on his face, knowing he can continue for many more miles without the need of his bellowing beast. He also smiles knowing his car could easily be upgraded to allow many more miles of electron driving if he so chooses at some point in the future when his battery starts to fade. Even more comfort comes over him as he envisions the next generation of the car he is driving: more affordable, quicker, and with even better efficiency. He knows his purchase has insolated him from the inevitable spikes in future gas prices while still leaving more of that precious resource for other uses.

    The tailing driver, while not thrilled about the immediate output, finds some comfort in the extra cash he still has in his bank account even while he hopes gasoline prices don’t rise too much to diminish his sole advantage. He also reminds himself that he did what he wanted and took care of numero uno.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (12:11 pm)

    #51 Noel Park

    Why tomorrow night watching Leno? Who or what is going to be on?


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (12:23 pm)

    #72 Koz,

    Nice vision. Shows the advantage of all-electric drive in stark terms.

    Not sure about user battery upgrades though. The battery pack is a big complicated thing with lots of embedded software inside. The code in the battery pack has to work with the rest of the Volt. The chemical properties of the cells affect the code. I believe any new pack would have to be built and tested by GM.

    GM has said that as new battery technology improves energy density, they will stay at 40 miles and make the pack smaller, lighter, and less expensive.

    So I don’t think it will be possible for users to increase the Volt’s range by changing the battery.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (12:26 pm)

    #61 D.:

    But what do you really think? I wonder if Chevron, et al, will buy up the water powered car reported on at #50 and bury it along with the NIMH technology, hehehe.

    #59 Dave G:

    I don’t have any reason to believe that the electronic power train management system in a Prius is any simpler than that in A Volt. If they have to juggle 1 ICE and 2 motors, and a mechanical drivetrain, why would it be? I thought that I saw someone from Toyota or somewhere just the other day holding forth on the sophisticated electronic system(s) required for the Prius. The system of the Volt is clearly quite different, with a whole different set of challenges, but more complicated? I dunno.

    As to the sizes of the ICEs and the motors, I wonder what size they are in the larger and heavier Toyota hybrids. Camry, Highlander, Lexus equivalent of Highlander, and whatever that whoop de doo $105K staus symbol thing is that they sell (or try to). Talk about greenwashing!


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (12:29 pm)

    #72 N Riley:

    President Obama


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    CorvetteGuy

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (12:37 pm)

    Lyle should take delivery of his on the new Jay Leno Show in Prime Time!

    ‘Nuff said.


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    Randy C.

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (12:37 pm)

    Capability wise the Volt IS superior to the Prius. In 2010 the stock Prius still will go nowhere without gas. And if you do manage to get your hands on a plug-in version (latest report is “fleet testing” only at that time) you will not be going more than 10 slow miles before fuel has to be burned. If you go to fast or stomp on the accelerator to hard on comes the engine. The Volt, in moderate temperatures, 40 miles no gas, full speed, accelerate as hard you want and still the engine isn’t required.

    I’m still leery of GM. I don’t want what happened to the EV1 drivers to happen to me. Take the car away, charge me $2000 to repair the paint job, and crush the car. Besides I need a van like vehicle like the eBox or Denki Cube. I carry cargo more often than people and some of it is bigger than a 13″ TV/VCR that wont fit in the trunk of a Pontiac Sunfire by 1″.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (12:55 pm)

    There’s an interesting commentary on the Huffington section of the Yahoo page this AM about the auto bailouts totalling 1% of the AIG bailout to date. And the fact that the chairman of AIG said that the bonus contracts can’t be abrogated, but that the Big 1.4 are being forced as a condition of their bailout to renegotiate the UAW contracts.

    Double (or 100 times) standard anyone?


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:16 pm)

    #61 D.

    “Off topic- (sorry about that, folks)”
    ——————-

    Sorry, D. You are not only off subject but you are unhinged. We don’t need this type of ranting on our site. You need to study up on a few things before spouting off mess like this. If you don’t have better to say, don’t say anything. There are plenty of blogs where this junk is commonly spoken. Go to one of those. We don’t need it here.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:16 pm)

    Superior in design is just an argument of semantics.

    MAKING A DIFFERENCE boils down to how many are PURCHASED.

    If Volt sales are few, then it just stays in the niche category. The point is to end the production of new traditional (dirty, guzzling) vehicles. A large quantity of FULL hybrids can easily offset the results of a small number of SERIES hybrids.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:19 pm)

    #62 Mke-O-Matic

    Letterman has a grudge against American products and especially GM. You can never expect him to take the time to research a topic before spilling out bile against something or someone he dislikes. If he actually did take some time to research the Volt, he would have to either not say anything or be forced to say something nice about the program and GM. Which do you think he would have decided to do?


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:29 pm)

    @59 Dave G

    I still stick by my earlier comments. 40 miles AER is a good thing, but I see the Volt as big step in eliminating the ICE. As long as the Prius mechanically links one to their wheels, you will be stuck with one. Series is the way to go.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:33 pm)

    #65 stealth in J’Rahm Age

    Lengthy, but interesting. I don’t know if I can agree with all you said, but you made it interesting. Sometimes what we perceive is what we believe. It is a new world today. Perception is 100%. How much perception is part of your comment, I can’t say.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:36 pm)

    I just want my Volt so I can commute Gas free and fuel Tax Free before they decide to Tax either my milage or my electrical at home. GM needs to get this out “Right”. My eye is on the Volt then the Th!nk or Ford Focus BEV. First one to market WINS!

    Lunch time. Beer and chicken wings anyone?


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:39 pm)

    There’s a lot of misinformation about the Prius here. For starters its planetary gear system is quite ingenious and worthy of admiration. Because of its revolutionary design, the Prius, among other things, doesn’t have a ransmission any more than the Volt will.

    However, the bottom line is that a plug-in serial design is far superior to a plug-in parallel design. By definition really, the parallel system has the ICE working in conjunction with the battery which means, as a practical matter, that the ICE will be engaged more frequently. Additionally the ICE in the parallel design has to deliver peak power whereas the ICE in the serial only has to deliver average power. This means the serial ICE can run at a more efficient rpm.

    It’s also a simpler and more flexible design. With the Volt you could, for example, just drop in battery pack with twice the energy and you’d be good to go. At most you might want a few software tweaks to use more of the pack. Can’t do that with the Prius because the ICE drives the planet carrier, and the planet carrier is needed to drive the ring gear at higher rpm.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:42 pm)

    #70 Tagamet

    Good point on the letters/contacts to Leno. I will do my part. Sending an email is an easy thing to do. What about you others?


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:46 pm)

    #80 john1710a — It’s pointless to compare cars based on sales figures when one has been on the market for almost a decade and one hasn’t even been released. How many copies of Windows and DOS were sold before 1993? How many now?

    #82 k-dawg says “Series is the way to go.”

    You betcha. Stick to your guns dawg. The split power device is crazy clever but neither as efficient nor robust as the serial design.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:48 pm)

    Any publicity is good publicity at the moment… GM need free publicity, they may not have the $ for it later ;)


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:56 pm)

    Email sent to: tonightshowfeedback@nbcuni.com

    Jay,

    I understand you may get a chance to drive a Volt mule while visiting Detroit during your comedy benefit program. If you do get to drive (or just see one up close and discuss it) one, would you consider having Dr. Lyle Dennis from GM-VOLT.COM on your show to talk about the Chevrolet Volt and the interest his web-site has generated for it and GM as a whole? Lyle is a really stand-up guy and would help draw national attention to the Chevy Volt and the electrification of America’s automobiles.

    Thanks in advance and I will be waiting to see Lyle on your show. I really enjoy your Garage videos.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:57 pm)

    Noel Park, Please Note, I made no ad hominem attack in my outburst . For me, This is progress toward board etiquette norms. He he. Sorry if I offended.

    N. Riley- Argh!

    David G, – incremental increases in battery range offerings makes sense for gmvolt as prices drop, energy density increases, It would be a great selling point!. Buy a battery specifically designed for your commute. And it would be even better if this customized range could be accomplished years after purchase- for example, if gm is thinking molular, if the need arose, you could just snap/slap in an extra 5kwh of battery and get another 10 miles of range. In dollar terms, for gas that wouldn’t be consumed, The modification would pay for itself in a few years( assuming 3000 miles additional aer/year, $250/kWh battery) savings to environment in reduced co2- every little bit helps.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (1:58 pm)

    #3 Off topic, but Reuters is an international organization with significant operations (and publication of content) in the United States. Thomson Reuters, its parent organization, is based in New York.

    I agree that I would like to see this getting wider coverage, though.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:03 pm)

    Dave G #73

    I here what your sayin and you may turn out to be correct, but I don’t think GM was speaking to 2018 or later when the battery starts to fade. If the Volt is successful, there will be longer range replacement battery packs available available by then in all likelihood.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:06 pm)

    #75 Noel Park

    Well, I guess that answers the “what”. Thanks. (just kidding)


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:10 pm)

    #78 Noel Park

    There is no doubt the financial market companies and banks are treated much different than manufacturing companies. If congress thought so much of manufacturing and the jobs it represents it would not have allowed all the off-shore job shifting that has occurred. You don’t see this in banking or financial companies (or at least, not yet).


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:12 pm)

    #90 D.:

    No offense taken. I took it that you were taking on the API and Chevron. I have absolutely no problem with that. Actually , I kind of agreed with you.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:17 pm)

    #90 D.

    Now that is better. Good comment and on target and subject. Argh indeed!


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:25 pm)

    #94 N Riley:

    Well amen to that. Although something on the order of $25 billion of the AIG $$ ended up in Europe in the hands of big German and Swiss banks to pay off on their “credit default swaps”.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:25 pm)

    I have read each of the comments about the Volt and Prius and which is better. In my opinion, both are better. I don’t have a problem with either one if it is the vehicle someone wants to purchase. My desire is for everyone to purchase a vehicle from Ford, GM or Chrysler first and foremost. If they really can’t find a vehicle that gives them what they want, then go to Toyota, Honda or one of the other “foreign” auto makers. We owe it to ourselves and our children to invest in our own country (U.S. and Canada) before we invest in some other countries’ products. It is about jobs more than anything else. American auto companies support more jobs in the U.S. and Canada than does a foreign company because the money over and above the cost (profit, in other words) stays here to be recycled through our economy. Foreign auto company profits get sent back home mostly, with some of it reinvested here. It is all about the economy, stupid. I heard that somewhere. I wonder where. Or when.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:26 pm)

    #96 N Riley:

    LOL.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:28 pm)

    The Prius is ugly; the Volt is not.

    Maybe GM is holding back and the Volt will get 50 miles or even 60 miles in electric mode. That would really be neat!


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:32 pm)

    #97 Noel Park

    I have been watching some of the testimony going on now on capital hill with Mr. Libby (or Liddy) from AIG. One congressman (from his accent he sounded like he was from New Jersey) asked if the CEO thought it was poor judgment to let the bonuses be paid out when the company was losing money and on the hook to the American people for 180 billion dollars. My first thought (after the momentary sickness I felt) was to wander if this same congressman thought it was poor judgment to sign off on the 800 billion dollar stimulus bill without reading any of it. The nerve of some of the people in congress continues to amaze me. They (congress) should all be run out of office and shipped to the moon to start our first moon colony. When we are able in 10 or 12 years, we will send them some food and oxygen.

    Edited: Not that I approve of the bonuses. I can never understand how a company can agree to give anyone any bonus before they even know how the company is going to perform. It is pretty stupid and the people who negotiated that contract should never be allowed to do any more contracts or practice law or run a company. You should only give bonuses if the company performs above average in earnings and I mean net earnings, not gross earnings before cost and taxes.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:38 pm)

    #100 DanO

    “The Prius is ugly; the Volt is not.”
    ——————

    I agree the Volt is not ugly, but the 2010 Prius is not bad looking at all. Subtle improvements really helped it’s looks, at least in my view.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:41 pm)

    #100 DanO

    Maybe GM is holding back and the Volt will get 50 miles or even 60 miles in electric mode. That would really be neat!”
    —————————-

    Well, we can only hope GM is under promising and will over deliver. I have heard several others say they thought we would see over 40 miles AEV. All electric mileage will very likely depend on how each individual driver drives his Volt. Just as in an ICE only vehicle to some extent.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:48 pm)

    Say, Noel. Obama will not have his teleprompter so you will have to bear through all of the stumbling speech, if he performs as usual off the teleprompter. Maybe he can answer in really short sentences and keep the stumbling down to just a little. But, I have never heard a short answer from him. He does like to hear himself talk. Now, if he could get some real business people advising him on the economy instead of political hacks, maybe we could see some progress.

    I don’t want to rain on your parade for tomorrow night. Have a good time while you enjoy watching him. I suspect you will not feel quite the same in 3 or 4 years. Time will tell. While I don’t want to see him be a failure as president, I don’t want to see his policies succeed. His policies spell problems for America. IMO, of course.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (2:55 pm)

    @N Riley 89

    I sent my email too….


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:00 pm)

    #105 CaptJackSparrow

    Thanks, Capt Jack.

    How about you other guys? I provided the link to the email address. You can even copy my email text and modify it to your liking. How simple is that? Lets bombard the Tonight Show with emails requesting Lyle appear on the program. Might work, who knows.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:06 pm)

    Noel,

    Sorry if I touched on a subject better left alone. I was just thinking of the show with Obama on it and had a thought and acted on it. If I offended any Obama supporters. please let me apologize here and now. But, if you feel worse about him in 3 or 4 years, I want all you supporters to apologize to the rest of us. I certainly want to apologize for the way things turned out with George W Bush and the way we democrats treated him. Why, we didn’t even wait to give any of his polices to be tried before we were saying in public that we wanted him to fail along with his policies. But, you know, that was OK because Bush is a republican after all. And it is OK to be hostile to a republican or a conservitive or even worse a Cxxxxxxxx. Not PC to actually say that word.

    (I am poking fun at all of us democrats, Noel.)


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:10 pm)

    Dear Donnie C
    Toyota in the early stages of development of the Prius visited a small American company with a transmission design, to make a long story short, Toyota violated that small American companies patent and tried to steal the design, after the American company hauled them into court there was an undisclosed setlement from Toyota. So as you tout there great tranny you need to realize who they tried to steal it from, Oragatto and Ohio bud have a risiing sun day. Just business as usual from Toyota or any other Japaneese company.
    I


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:13 pm)

    OK, I had an extra cup of coffee too much and have been acting a little erratic. Sorry about that. My work load today is pretty light and I am spending too much time on this site. Sorry to all.

    I am almost of the same opinion as Statik about buying the first available PHEV, BEV or whatever that meets my needs. Except for the fact that if it is not from an American or Canadian owned company, I will hold off until time for them to put one on the market to compare with the other foreign owned vehicle. I am going to be unabashed American made product buyer in the future as much as I can be. And, when I say American, I include Canada as part of of America. I guess i should start to saying North American instead. Sorry about that Canada. I sure am apologizing a lot today. I guess I am trying to be as PC as possible. How totally unlike me!!


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:17 pm)

    #108 chevonly

    I have heard that story before, myself. I don’t know how much truth there is to it personally, but it does go along with the process Toyota does in gaining knowledge of new technology from some other source, changing it some (along with improvements) and placing it in the market place as their own. I would assume they are not the only company that does that. It has been stated many times that the Japanese are masters at innovating other company’s products. Maybe so.

    Edited: Their battery technology is not their own, either. Nor is it Japanese. If I understand it correctly, it is American technology. As are most of the electronics produced in Japan and Korea. Plus most of Chinese technology came from America. Especially the missile technology the Clinton administration gave China. But they at least did receive large campaign donations for that.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:26 pm)

    i think Japan Inc will insure the Prius and other Japanese made plug-in vehicles will meet the minimum requirements of congress to enable the owners to get as much of the tax credit as possible. That will help justify the higher prices they will charge for their plug-in vehicles over the standard hybrids. Plug-in hybrids, while good for fuel economy, will not match what the Volt and its technology will do. I will wait for the Volt before buying a hybrid or a plug-in.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:26 pm)

    #104 & #107 N Riley:

    I have tried to live up to my arguably rather flowery pronouncement sometime ago that I was going to support people I agreed with and try to let the rest go by. I obviously agree with you at least 50 + 1% of the time, and I try to support and encourage you when I do. This I am going to let go by.

    Many have said that Democrats, Republicans, and people of every political persuasion find common ground here to try to help to take the Volt forward. People who believe in global warming think that it will help there. People who want to get off of foreign oil for economic and security reasons think that it will help there. Some people hope that it will help to preserve US jobs and our manufacturing economy. Some people couldn’t care less.

    So the remarkable thing is that all of us can find some reason to join the common effort, even though we may profoundly disagree on many issues. I think that such is a strong metaphor for what we must do to get our country out of its current terrifying situation, and go forward to a better place.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:28 pm)

    OK. Am I the only one left on this site? Or did I offend everyone and you just will not comment anymore? Hey, I only try to offend like Statik does. With a smile and a wink. Right, Statik?


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:37 pm)

    #112 Noel Park

    I totally agree. We accomplish much more working with each other than against each other. Working against each other did not work very good for the past 30 years. I fully support policies that are good for the country and keep our economic system sound and dedicated to the principles that have governed us so well for over 200 years. I do not support a “Nanny State” mentality that seems to be so prevalent in today’s society. Government is not the answer to our problems. It is in many ways the problem. But, we have to be realistic that in some things today, you can not solve certain problems without government’s help. I did say help. Not intervention or downright ownership.

    We have fewer problems than most people are willing to accept. We are constantly fed bad news and told how bad this group is or that group or that person. There are reasons for feeding us this like this. It is to control us without us fighting back. Our biggest problem we face today is simple as PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. Solve that problem and all others will pale in comparison.

    That is my two cents worth. And it is what I truly believe is the root of our problems as well as the problems encountered by all of today’s nations as well as the ones who came before us.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:43 pm)

    #112 noel park

    agreed.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:43 pm)

    Many people: “It doesn’t matter if it is a series or // hybrid, all that matters is AER”
    __________________________________

    I strongly disagree. It is a significant difference to have a motor capable of driving the wheels in a // hybrid such as the Prius. You can’t use the super-small motors as in the next-gen Volt, and you can’t remove all the complex components that try to deliver torque and efficiency over a wide range of RPMs. When it comes to gearing, ICE efficiency- heck almost everything- the series hybrid is far superior; especially from 3 major standpoints: 1) reduced cost 2) reduced # and complexity of components (relates to #1) 3) substantially increased efficiency.

    If you can pay the boatloads of cash for a 62 AER // hybrid, go ahead. But you’re not even as efficient as a Volt after the AER runs out, and you paid a lot more. A Prius w/ AER of 10 miles is a good step, but // hybrids are a thing of the past. Don’t get me wrong, the Prius was a great first step, but now that the Voltec engineers have solved the problems with series hybrid performance, there is no comparison between Voltec and Toyota’s HSD.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:48 pm)

    There’s a lot of misinformation about the Prius here.
    _________________________

    It’s ironic how that statement was followed by some. But again, that’s only realm of the enthusiasts. They like to argue technical issues and disregard the actual consumer.

    It all boils down to sales.

    Only a small quantity of vehicles won’t make much of a difference for the big picture.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:49 pm)

    The “L5″ Hymotion conversion of the Prius yeilds an AER of about 25 miles. The “L5″ adds about 5 kWh to the Prius 1.3 kWh battery. Since, from fully charged to “L5″ depletion point, the AER is 25 miles, one must assume nearly the whole battery is being utilized. Thus to assume the plug-in Prius would only use one half of the battery is silly.
    If the plug-in Prius has a 5.2 kWh battery, and utilizes 70%, then the SOC window would be about 3.5 kWh and could be advertised as having up to 17 miles of AER. Hopefully, before December we will learn how much battery is in the fleet test prototypes. Until then, the best info says 20 or less AER.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:50 pm)

    That’s awesome! It’s great to see someone so powerful (Jay Leno) telling people how great American cars are! People need to start supporting the home team a lot more, or we aren’t going to have a bright future in any market, let alone cars or even planes.

    http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:56 pm)

    #90 D (and others)

    I think there will be a great interest in early Volts in the not so distant future, after their original planned lifetimes; not from collectors (too soon for that), but because of their capacious battery compartments. Someone will do the Hymotion thing with (by that time) modern batteries, if GM does not. By 2022, there will have been many, many hacks by enthusiasts; which will have laid the groundwork for the software modifications necessary to use a pack with double, or more, of an original pack’s capacity. I think it might be the new ‘hot-rodding’:

    “Old Volts never die … they just go farther.”

    Wealthy gear-heads like Jay will probably be leading the way (if he’s still at it by then).


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:57 pm)

    Yes, I as a conservative registered Democrat want to see the Volt be very successful for all the reasons you can name. Our economy. Our environment. Our jobs picture. Our everything. I am first and foremost an American. I served 4 years in the Marines with one year in Vietnam. My view politically was affected greatly by how I and my fellow Vietnam Vets were treated after coming home and the way we are depicted today on TV. Most of the long-haired, sloppy dressed, pot-smoking people TV shows as Vietnam Vets are probably not really vets and certainly do not represent the vast majority of us. And I damn well resent being represented by that group.

    I want the Volt to succeed. I want it and its siblings to outsell any other vehicle in the world. I want GM and Ford (and even Chrysler) to be very successful and be constantly fighting to be the number one auto maker in the world. I want American products to be desired by every man, woman and child in the world and I want those products to be made in American by American workers. And i want to see a time soon where we do not need foreign workers to come into our country illegally and be allowed to stay and be supported by our political leaders just because they crave their votes. If we need foreigh workers, lets develp a guest worker program that works and sends the guest home when the contract runs out.

    I am an American of Southern roots and I am proud to be a Southerner with our diversity and heritage. I do not want to see our way of life go down the drain to support waht may be coming down the pike. We have had a successful country for over 200 years with a constitution that is not a living, changing document that can be interpreted by different parties for their own needs.

    I have been a proud supporter of GM vehicles since my early child hood days when my family purchased GM vehicles. I have owned many of the cars and trucks GM has built. I have drifted from the path, but now I am coming back. I want the Volt to be the best and I want it to be built right. I want it to create the best driving experience that anyone has ever known. I want it to be so perfect that there are lines at GM dealerships waiting for just a chance to look at it or maybe, maybe get a test drive. I want young men and women to go to bed a night dreaming of owning a new volt or one of its siblings. I want them to pledge to themselves that they will work as hard as they can to be as successful as they can be so that one day they may be able to fully participate in the “American Dream”.

    OK, you guys may remember that I have said in the past that I carry my soap box with me all the time and I can whip it out a a moment’s notice. So, I did and now I hope I am through for today. Let the Volt news continue.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (3:58 pm)

    @70 Tagamet, #86 N Riley, et. al.,

    I sent in the following request. For those who prefer using a webform, you can find one here, just be sure to select “Tonight Show” from the dropdown:

    http://www.nbc.com/Footer/Contact_Us

    Anyway, here’s what I wrote:
    ————–
    Subject: “Automotive-related guest suggestion”

    Why don’t you get on neurosurgeon Lyle Dennis, founder of “gm-volt.com” to discuss the Chevy Volt, and the future of electric automobiles?

    Lyle’s site has a following of many tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of readers, and he has been following the development of the upcoming Chevy Volt since its introduction as a concept in 2007. It is slated for production in late 2010.

    Lyle has become an unofficial spokesperson for many people yearning for freedom from pollution and our national oil addiction. So much so, in fact, that GM’s highest leadership respects the publicity he’s generated, and his opinions as well.

    Unfortunately, how the Volt works often misunderstood by the public. Yet, electric cars are the undoubtedly the future of personal transportation — maybe even the salvation of the American auto industry.

    Dr. Dennis would be a fascinating and articulate guest, and as a “car guy” Jay would probably have a blast interviewing him.

    Bring it on! Good stuff.

    Regards,
    (my full name)


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:00 pm)

    #117 ohn1701a

    “There’s a lot of misinformation about the Prius here.”
    ————————–

    There is a lot of misinformation about the Volt everywhere you look, also. Too bad people don’t spend a little time getting to know a subject before commenting on it. That would work in all walks of life on all subject matters discussed today and previously.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:03 pm)

    #119 Zach

    “People need to start supporting the home team a lot more, or we aren’t going to have a bright future in any market, let alone cars or even planes.”
    ——————————-

    What it is!! Ain’t I been saying just that? Good to hear it from someone else. We need to look out for our own first and foremost. Else it might not be there when we go looking for it.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:12 pm)

    #122 Mike-O-Matic

    I had sent one to that address already. Either one should work. My email address for the Tonight Show is:

    tonightshowfeedback@nbcuni.com

    This is a direct email address to the show and should get there better. But, the thing to do is to send one by either method. Let’s get going GM-Volt bloggers. Are you committed enough to take a couple of minutes and send an email? I hope so. Think what 20,000 emails would do for the chance of Lyle appearing on the show. It should make them sit up and look at the possibility and that is all we can expect. We hope for success, but they have to take notice first.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:15 pm)

    #120 Jackson

    “Old Volts never die … they just go farther.”
    ——————

    Priceless, just priceless. Thanks.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:16 pm)

    There is a lot of misinformation about the Volt everywhere you look, also. Too bad people don’t spend a little time getting to know a subject before commenting on it.
    ____________________________

    Should I, again, point out the need for a Tech-FAQ ?


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:20 pm)

    #109 N Riley said:

    I am almost of the same opinion as Statik about buying the first available PHEV, BEV or whatever that meets my needs. Except for the fact that if it is not from an American or Canadian owned company, I will hold off until time for them to put one on the market to compare with the other foreign owned vehicle. I am going to be unabashed American made product buyer in the future as much as I can be. And, when I say American, I include Canada as part of of America. I guess i should start to saying North American instead. Sorry about that Canada. I sure am apologizing a lot today. I guess I am trying to be as PC as possible. How totally unlike me!!

    ===================
    That is very PC.

    I’m still just as open as ever…first one out (that can be serviced isnisde the cars electric range) gets my business.

    Traditionally, if it comes between a choice of a ‘international’ product and a domestic, I make every effort to buy the domestic (ala my G6 for the wife to drive…rather than getting a Camry).

    However, if my choice is a big bag full of air…or a foreign automakers electric offering, I’m buying that EV. Once ‘North America’ puts something out to compete, I don’t mind paying a little extra…or getting a little less to buy local.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:23 pm)

    #113 N Riley said:

    OK. Am I the only one left on this site? Or did I offend everyone and you just will not comment anymore? Hey, I only try to offend like Statik does. With a smile and a wink. Right, Statik?
    ==================

    No idea what you are talking about right now…I am universally loved by all.

    (=


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:27 pm)

    N Riley

    I can remember when it was possible to be both a Democrat and a Conservative (that used to be the majority in the South), but those days are past.

    Nor am I now a whole-hearted Republican. The country is going the way it is because Republicans couldn’t be bothered to oppose it. Yes, I said it. Where was the leadership when the Republican majority was busy naming post-offices, changing Daylight Savings Time and generally takin’ care of business-as-usual? They’re as much to blame as any liberals for fully earning the American electorates’ disgust.

    Frankly, I feel unrepresented in America politically, and I think the majority of Americans actually fall into that category whether they realize it or not.

    I’d like to think it was possible to be Libertarian (and have that count for something in America) and conservative; but that is perhaps asking too much.

    You’re just lucky ThombDbhomb had to go to the bathroom when you posted, back there.

    ;-)

    //i doubt I shall escape when he gets back


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:31 pm)

    For all those interested in the progress of Chevrolet’s pivotal 2011 Volt, take note: Autoblog is taking part in a four-way live-chat with Jon Lauckner, General Motors’ Vice President Global Program Management tonight at 6:00pm EST.

    The best part? You get to ask the questions. We will be joined in the chat by our esteemed colleagues over at Jalopnik and Cars.com’s Kicking Tires blog, so feel free to plug in with a question about the Volt or GM’s other alt-fuel initiatives in ‘Comments,’ and be sure to log back on to Autoblog at 6:00pm EST to join us in the live-chat!


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:31 pm)

    #127 John1701a

    “There is a lot of misinformation about the Volt everywhere you look, also. Too bad people don’t spend a little time getting to know a subject before commenting on it.
    ____________________________

    Should I, again, point out the need for a Tech-FAQ ?”

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    John, it is not the lack of information that is the cause of people spouting off about a subject without knowing anything about it. It is just human nature for some to voice opinions without thinking it through. Hey, I am guilty of it sometimes myself. (For those of you who are jumping to the conclusion that I am talking about anything I said today, you are regrettably incorrect in that conclusion.)

    John, we know some of the people here are here for one primary reason. To see what is being said about the vehicle they think is the best vehicle ever to roll off an assembly line. Problem is that they are not thinking of the Volt or any American made vehicle. They want to quash any talk that may put doubt in people’s heads about “their vehicle of choice”. Doesn’t matter what brand or where it is made, to them it is the answer to all their needs and they can’t stand the though of someone disparaging it in any form whatsoever. They attack and defend. They don’t take the time to study the subject because that would take brain power that they may not possess. (Am I offending anyone? Gee, I truly hope so.)


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:31 pm)

    http://www.autoblog.com/2009/03/18/livechat-ask-gm-vp-jon-lauckner-about-the-chevrolet-volt-tonigh/

    LiveChat: GM VP Jon Lauckner talks Chevrolet Volt with us tonight at 6PM EST!


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:33 pm)

    #117 john1710a says “It’s ironic how that statement was followed by some.”

    Wanna be more specific?

    “It all boils down to sales”

    OK. You win. The best vehicle is the Ford F150. :-)


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:33 pm)

    @john1701a 127

    “Should I, again, point out the need for a Tech-FAQ ?”

    There was one somewhere but I can remember where. I have been trying to keep up with some specs myself so I did a save as on my Word doc to a webserver. I got some data from here but most from another site.

    http://207.231.94.134/GMVolt/ChevyVolt.htm

    Don’t expect anything fancy because I know JackShlt when it comes to web stuff. I had enough of a time trying to get those phukin tables straight.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:34 pm)

    #129 Statik

    “No idea what you are talking about right now…I am universally loved by all.”
    —————————

    You are by me, my friend.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:34 pm)

    Nothing to do with the price of cheese…just thought it was interesting.

    Toyota just lowered the price of old gen Prius to compete with the Honda Insight in Japan, to 1.89 million yen…thats $19,633 in US dollars. Toyota will be selling both along side of each other there.

    I have always assumed once they announced they would be selling both models in Japan, they would do the same over here as well (I mean why not?)…but they are still ‘mum’ on it.

    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/03/18/toyota-prius-price-lowered-in-japan-to-match-honda-insight/


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:43 pm)

    In Los Angeles yesterday an NG powered laundry truck had a very dangerous explosion with injuries that disabled the vehicle. Pasadena, CA Police officers said the NG tank was launched into the air like a missile. For many people this will be the only information they ever receive or remember about CNG vehicles. ( http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Two-Burned-in-Explosion-at-Pasadena-Building.html )

    The Volt doesn’t need any on the road snags, minor or major as the vanguard of 40 mile serial PHEV technology. GM will stay with it’s schedule, not take shortcuts, and will allow a legion of accountants, cost analysts, risk analysts and attorneys to sleep well at night. Better that than the same legion be called into action to attempt to repair the damage from some minor issue that has been blown out of all proportion to grab headlines and put obscure faces on the evening news. Then Jay Leno really would have something to joke about, more negative news from Detroit, which people expect any way, and all news outlets are primed to get it to them as dramatically as possible.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:43 pm)

    #130 Jackson

    “Frankly, I feel unrepresented in America politically, and I think the majority of Americans actually fall into that category whether they realize it or not.”
    ———————————-

    Exactly the way I feel today. I voted republican several times. They sold out trying to out democrat the democrats. That is totally impossible to do as I told a few of my republican friends. I feel betrayed by both parties and feel they will never care enough to want “my kind” back into their “inner circles”. I grew up in a conservative democratic family that always voted for the democrat on the ticket. Heck, until the mid-1960s there wasn’t any other choice locally. Only time we saw republicans was for president and who would want to vote for them when our democrats were doing the job for us. The democrats fell off the band-wagon during Vietnam and the republicans fell off during the last 8 years. If we had today the same republican congress that Clinton enjoyed, our economy would not be in the taters it is in today. They worked together good and accomplished a lot of good things. I did not vote for Clinton either time, but I respected him and he was willing to actually talk to the opposing party. Today, bi-partisanship is only given lip service as the democrats ram spending and taxes down the throats of the American public and they don’t even let the republicans have any real say in what is done. Except in ear marks. There the republicans can hold their own with any one.

    I am totally ready for a taxpayer revolt. I will lead it if anyone wants to follow.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:46 pm)

    #17 Dave G responds to my question
    #11 RB Says: Does the Volt have front-wheel or rear-wheel drive?
    ————————————————————————————–
    The Volt has front-wheel drive. The area where the rear-wheel drive-shaft would fit has been replaced by the battery pack.

    =========================================

    Thank you. It’s quite reasonable, but I’ve never been sure.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:46 pm)

    #135 CaptJackSparrow

    Thanks. I will take a look at it.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:50 pm)

    @RB 140

    #17 Dave G responds to my question
    #11 RB Says: Does the Volt have front-wheel or rear-wheel drive?
    ————————————————————————————–
    The Volt has front-wheel drive. The area where the rear-wheel drive-shaft would fit has been replaced by the battery pack.

    =========================================

    Thank you. It’s quite reasonable, but I’ve never been sure.

    ——————————————————————-

    Yeah, when I saw that and I added it to my doc. I was unclear about it as well.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (4:52 pm)

    ““It doesn’t matter if it is a series or // hybrid, all that matters is AER”

    That sound true to me. To assume a parallel hybrid cannot deliver adequate acceleration in EV mode seems unwarranted. Would it be expected to be less than a series hybrid? Yes. But would it trounce a 1960′s VW beetle? You bet.

    To say the series is more efficient seems a long way around the barn for sayings the operational cost of a series hybrid will be less. That remains to be confirmed. The new Prius supposedly gets 48 plus miles per gallon highway. Once an independent driver gets to put a couple of hundred miles on the Volt, we will find out what it gets on the highway. Until then, the Volt highway mileage in charge sustaining mode is unknown. And if its less than 48, poof goes the “higher efficiency” claim.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (5:01 pm)

    N Riley #132 “John, it is not the lack of information that is the cause of people spouting off about a subject without knowing anything about it. It is just human nature for some to voice opinions without thinking it through. Hey, I am guilty of it sometimes myself. (For those of you who are jumping to the conclusion that I am talking about anything I said today, you are regrettably incorrect in that conclusion.)”
    ___________________
    People have a tendency to look at new things and assume that they’re just like the things they already know about, eg Prius v. Volt. There will be a ton of misinformation until the Volts hit the road and people can compare it to what they are used to.

    Look at the gallons per year difference at post # 33 before any one posts that they are both simply hybrids. The Volt allows you to think in terms of gallons per year in place of mpg. Ah, Ah, Ah don’t answer before looking at the chart on post #33.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (5:01 pm)

    #121 N. Riley

    COMPLETELY AGREE WITH YOU!


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (5:04 pm)

    #123 N Riley said:

    There is a lot of misinformation about the Volt everywhere you look, also. Too bad people don’t spend a little time getting to know a subject before commenting on it. That would work in all walks of life on all subject matters discussed today and previously.
    ==========================

    I have noticed a few people here seem to have constructed/dreamt up some ‘absolutes’ as truth about the Volt (or haven taken others positions as truth) and seem to be willing to defend them to the ends of the earth…even post on it repeatedly, as if continual reiteration will make their positions true, whether it be on price, performance, range, mpgs or availability.

    Conversely, many of these same people seem to be able to extrapolate hard numbers for the yet to exist competition as well.

    /reality is we have gotten almost nothing on any benchmarks…from anybody

    As for the Volt benchmarks?
    1.) Price? – Is it 30K? 35k? 40k? 45K? Is that before or after rebates? Dunno.
    2.) When? – November 2010 production means what? Is that start of production, so it could be 3-4 months more? Or is that the, ‘out the door production’ goal? Or is it in the dealerships in Nov 2010? Dunno.
    3.) Where? No hard locational rollout – where are they going to be available in the US? Other countries? Dunno,
    4.) Range? They said 40 miles AER, but all the darn commercials say ‘up to’…and is that only under optimal conditions? City? Highway? Dunno.
    5.) Mileage? That 50 MPG number came out on day 1 in January 2007. How can so much have changed since then…like the whole car and the ICE engine and that number never have wavered 1 MPG? Dunno.

    The answer to all these questions on the Volt (and to its future competition from others) I figure, simply does not exist. We can’t know, because they don’t know either. I have some guesses…but I find myself too tired to even refute some claims being postulated.

    For the record my guesses are:
    1.) $42,500 (actual all in price before taxes, pre-rebate)
    2.) May 2011 first ‘non-celebrity’ cars go out…not built on mock line
    3.) 2011 US Only – New York, California, Washington DC
    2012 US nationwide, Canada, and some token units to others (Euro, Australia, BRIC)
    4.) 40 mile AER is achieved, but city only, 32-35 highway, 25-30 if you drive like I do.
    5.) 35-38MPG on the ICE – sorry, don’t care how efficient your set up is, current tech 4 banger is not going to get 50MPG hauling around 4,000lbs driving like a normal human being I don’t give anyone a ‘free pass’ on MPG claims…this is something that has to be earned. “Guilty until proven innocent,” if you will.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (5:17 pm)

    Set ‘em straight Statik,

    The only thing I would disagree with would be mpg in charge depleted mode. The Prius is said to “run like crap under hard acceleration”. Tuning the Volt for mid to high forties mpg on the highway should not be difficult. No accelerating no braking losses and no stopping duties at all are required of the small ICE. Just tune it to keep it moving. Otto cycle or some crank shaft modifications and then the drive motor does all the heavy lifting. Otherwise that’s my contribution to Volt misinformation!


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (5:17 pm)

    Leno doesn’t get a VOLT unless he is on the GM-VOLT list. Anyway, he already has an electric car (see photo above.)

    Lyle should wait for the production car. The mule would be “nice,” but the VOLT will be “WOW!”


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (5:23 pm)

    #146 Statik (me)

    Oh yeah…naturally all those guesses get a huge disclaimer***

    ***-provided GM doesn’t go bankrupt
    ———————————-
    ———————————-
    Side note: I love this time of year…spring is here. Finally, just got my baseball tickets in the mail for the year…huzzah! I love hanging out downtown and going to the ballpark with friends.. I’ll be at the Skydome…er, Rogers Centre monday April 6th @ 7:15 for Detroit at Toronto.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (5:24 pm)

    #66 Dave G
    “I think you may be underestimating the cost, size, and weight advantages of an induction motor over a perminent magnet motor like the Prius uses.
    The main drawback of the induction motor is the software complexity. More info here:
    http://www.teslamotors.com/blog4/?p=45

    Thanks for the links.
    Believe it or not, I remember reading that article in a while ago, when Lyle was posting info about the motor on the Volt. I lost it at about the same place today, but I do see a difference.

    #68
    For example, the Mercedes-Benz BlueZero E-Cell Plus has 62 miles of all-electric range,
    http://gm-volt.com/2008/12/13/mercedes-benz-bluezero-e-cell-plus-e-rev-or-phev/
    but the ICE is connected to the wheels by a Power-Split Device, so technically it’s a parallel hybrid.

    Perhaps that is a better implementation, though cost may be an issue. Yes, I meant the Prius implementation. To me, the Mercedes is more like the E-flex – big motor, small engine (The on-board generator will be a Smart ForTwo turbo-charged 3-cylinder engine than can propel the car for an additional 310 miles.)

    Don’t get me wrong, I love my PHEV Prius. It is the closest thing to no gas that you can get today. Driving is really fun, again. But, if the amount of gas used is the criteria, the Volt gets my vote.

    =D~~~~


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (5:29 pm)

    #147 Jeffhre siad:

    Set ‘em straight Statik,

    The only thing I would disagree with would be mpg in charge depleted mode. The Prius is said to “run like crap under hard acceleration”. Tuning the Volt for mid to high forties mpg on the highway should not be difficult. No accelerating no braking losses and no stopping duties at all are required of the small ICE. Just tune it to keep it moving. Otto cycle or some crank shaft modifications and then the drive motor does all the heavy lifting. Otherwise that’s my contribution to Volt misinformation!
    =======================

    Exactly, you could be right…I could be wrong. Mine are just the best guesses I could come up with from my own experiences, yours are likewise. I don’t hold them up as gospel and I don’t think you do either…as long as we can keep a arm’s length perspective, life on ‘the board’ is a lot easier.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (5:33 pm)

    #146 statik:

    Well your guess is as good as anybody’s. Maybe a little bit better, based upon past history.

    As one who is always going on about lightness, I take your point about 4000# and the current tech 4 banger. Even so, I wonder if the much greater battery capacity of the Volt will give it any advantage once the ICE is deployed? Does anyone have a sense of whether the Prius is able to utilize all of the regen energy available, or does the battery max out and the rest have to be wasted as heat? I seem to remember hearing something like that months ago.

    If so, maybe the Volt will be able to capture more or all of the regen energy, and thus increase its gas mileage, if only in city driving. Just trying to cheer myself up I guess.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (5:46 pm)

    Noel Park,

    Some one posted that when you look inside the Prius has two large supercaps to help with those duties.
    ( http://www.autobloggreen.com/tag/e-flex-supercap/ )

    Statik,

    Except I think that mine IS ACTUALLY GOSPEL, and I’m heading to the gym so that I’ll be capable of defending my opinion any time and at any place, since I don’t have the facts to back it up right now. HA, who needs some wimpy FAQ, I’m not about to let facts stand in MY way! Yeah buddy, try to mess with my opinion and I’ll treat ‘em to one heck of an arms length perspective.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (5:56 pm)

    @noel park 152

    Batteries by their nature almost always has a slower charge current than discharge. Most are .5C and some are 1C rate. This means your charge rate at best is equvalent to the Ah rating which = 1C. So, if your bat pack is rated at 330V @ 6Ah then the most you can get inflow back to the battery is 6A. Now when it comes to nickel-metal hydride, they are at best going to be .5C which is your Ah * .5 = 3A @ 330V = 990W

    But my speculation of nickel-metal hydride @ .5C is just my SWAG. It might be 1C or 1.98KW but no higher. Lithium Ions are typically 1C.

    Here’s where it’s a problem for induction motors. In order for the bat to take in the current, it has to provide more than 330V because if they are both at 330V there is no potential difference therefore no current flows. Also, an Induction motor requires electrical Excitation to develop a magnetic field for the stator coils to cross.

    That’s why I think it should be a PMG instead of an AC Induction and UltraCaps to “Soften” the blow/charge of brake regen.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:14 pm)

    @ 154 (Me)

    “That’s why I think it should be a PMG instead of an AC Induction and UltraCaps to “Soften” the blow/charge of brake regen.”

    Should read…

    “That’s why I think the onboard generator should be a PMG instead of an AC Induction and UltraCaps on the bat to “Soften” the blow/charge of brake regen.”


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:25 pm)

    There is a vast difference between what is known in technical engineering as a “clean sheet of paper” as to design, and, something that has been drug through the last 14 years and supposedly improved to be able to say it will be at all comparable.
    While yes there have been some incremental refinements down through the last 14 years of Prius, the problem from my viewpoint is that you must drag along all those associated contractors. Ultimately, you get to the “brick wall” of “flogging a dead horse”, because you can incorporate less and less innovative breakthroughs due to your over-involvements with your current (antiquated technologically-speaking) subcontracted dependents whom then tend to become as much of a hold-back as an advancement. You have them depending on you too much for their survival, and, they are all locked into old approaches and formats.
    This is ironically where the very timing of all the new technological breakthroughs, in conjunction with the stripping-away of inefficiencies (by reorganizing), as well as the overwhelming desire for the public to advance to green electric motoring, all these co-variables add together to cause a maximum set of changes not at all comparable to a 14 year old product lines’ technologies. This is the perfect storm of environmental change.
    The difference as I see it is like between bubble gum and champagne.
    Is that a 1904 (electric) Runabout that Mr. Leno has???
    Impressive.
    Dan Petit. Austin TX.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:34 pm)

    #130 Jackson

    I’m back from the bathroom (never again will I ty to match CaptJack beer-for-beer and wing-for-wing).
    I’m giving N Riley some space today because he made me reflect on how bad I treated W and repubs. Those sweeties didn’t deserve it, especially after they treated Clinton and the dems like kin. ;)

    May we all learn compassion and respect…and more about the Volt.


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    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:45 pm)

    @ThombDbhomb 157

    “I’m back from the bathroom (never again will I ty to match CaptJack beer-for-beer and wing-for-wing).”

    LOL…
    It’s dem 911 Spicy Garlic wings and 3 beers. They burn on da way in and make you scream “yyeeeehaawwww…” on da way out!


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    BillR

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:52 pm)

    Looks like the Volt is going to get more resources.

    http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conewsstory&refer=conews&tkr=GM%3AUS&sid=a4ih2eO7bz18

    “It’s pretty apparent now that the administration sees this as the model that should be adopted. It’s still going to be a challenge.”


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    ThombDbhomb

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (6:57 pm)

    #159 BillR
    “Realistically, this technology is not going to save the company from the trouble they’re in now,” Smith said. “The challenge is to work toward the viability mark five or 10 years in the future.”

    That’s what she said…and that’s been the consensus here. Five or ten years in the future, if they live that long. Can they live that long? Many here say, “no.”


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    Dave G

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:11 pm)

    #151 George K Says: Don’t get me wrong, I love my PHEV Prius. It is the closest thing to no gas that you can get today. Driving is really fun, again. But, if the amount of gas used is the criteria, the Volt gets my vote.
    ————————————————————————————–
    Yes, well said.


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    noel park

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:19 pm)

    #159 BillR & #160 ThombDbhomb:

    I sense that the President and his people have a high level of interest in making this happen. Who reminded us the other day of his repeated statements that PHEVs would soon be ‘rolling off of the assembly lines with batteries made in Korea”, or something very close to that?

    They must have some strategy in mind for picking the diamond of the Volt out of the coal pile of GM as we know it.

    “Can they live that long?” Maybe in some stripped down reorganized form that we heven’t even envisioned yet. I would support the government’s somehow directing and funding the development of the Volt as a tool in “the moral equivalent of war”, much as it did the Sherman tank and the B-24 Liberator in the early 1940s. On the other hand, continuing bailouts of the entire existing GM structure as we know it today are going to be unsustainable, both politically and fiscally, over a 5-10 years time frame, IMHO.


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    Dave G

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:21 pm)

    #81 john1701a Says: If Volt sales are few, then it just stays in the niche category. The point is to end the production of new traditional (dirty, guzzling) vehicles. A large quantity of FULL hybrids can easily offset the results of a small number of SERIES hybrids.
    ————————————————————————————–
    I guess we all have our different objectives, but to me, the point is becoming energy independent. This has national security, economic, and environmental ramifications.

    A large quantity of FULL hybrids won’t achieve energy independence – not even close. So our nation is starting to take a serious look at plug-ins and bio-fuels. This starts with the president on down, and includes people from all walks of life. See http://www.setamericamfree.org for details.

    So the question is this: Will a plug-in Prius with 10 miles of electric boost sell better than a Volt with a 40-mile all-electric range? GM says the Volt will cost in the mid-30s, and there is a $7500 tax credit. The Prius plug-in option will be around $4000 extra, and there will be a $2500 tax credit. So in the end, both cars will be in the mid-to-high-20s after the tax credit. For that little of a price difference, I think most people will go with the Volt.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:39 pm)

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (7:51 pm)

    #146 statik

    My guesses:

    1.) $37,499 (actual all in price before taxes, pre-rebate) Mostly because of PR as a car for the masses and because it will appease GM’s banker (the Obama Administration), which will want to tout an “under $30K EV”.

    2.) November 2011 for first 500-1000 cars (maybe a few celebreties but not like the Honda Clarity).

    3.) 2011 – what you said more or less (I’d add MA).

    4.) 40 mile AER is achieved using EPA five cycle standard (this will be the standard for the 2011 model year so I can’t see them using anything else).

    5.) 45-48 MPG on the ICE – average power vs. peak power can be a big deal.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (8:43 pm)

    Will a plug-in Prius with 10 miles of electric boost sell better than a Volt with a 40-mile all-electric range?
    ___________________________

    Mentioning a tax credit answering that shows the lack of constructive discussion. Not being able to see beyond it is a very real problem.

    MILLIONS of sales are at stake. How many times must that be pointed out before it finally sinks in? The tax credit will expire long before that.

    In the United States alone, even in this time of slow sales, the annual estimate is 12,000,000.

    So, it isn’t even a matter of the plug. With that many new vehicles each year here, how many Volts will be needed to offset the consumption the rest that are just traditional vehicles?


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    Tagamet

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (9:59 pm)

    Mike-O-Matic@122
    provided a VERY convenient way to support the goal of having Lyle as a guest on the Leno show.
    MOST EXCELLENT! Are you talkers or doers????
    Be well (and active)
    Tag

    LJGTVWOTR!!**********NPNS**********Support the “dealerships formally known as Saturn”


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    Dave G

     

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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:35 pm)

    #167 john1701a Says: MILLIONS of sales are at stake. How many times must that be pointed out before it finally sinks in? The tax credit will expire long before that.
    ————————————————————————————–
    By the time the tax credits expire, the Volt’s battery pack will cost $2000.

    That’s what tax credits are for, to raise the sales volume so that the unit costs come down. By the time the tax credits expire, they are no longer needed.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (10:41 pm)

    #166 DonC Says: My guesses:
    1.) $37,499 (actual all in price before taxes, pre-rebate)

    ————————————————————————————–
    Every time a senior GM exec has mentioned the Volt’s price, it has gotten lower. The latest announcement was:
    Lauckner indicated he expects the Volt to cost in the mid 30s…
    http://gm-volt.com/2008/10/17/car-and-driver-on-the-volt-tens-of-thousands-in-first-year-generation-two-after-5-years/

    Your other points (2-5) seem about right.


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    Mar 18th, 2009 (11:26 pm)

    By the time the tax credits expire, the Volt’s battery pack will cost $2000.
    ________________________

    Over promise.

    Under deliver.


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    stopcrazypp

     

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    Mar 19th, 2009 (12:32 am)

    That seems kind of slow refueling for hydrogen. I found out why, it is because the 10k psi compression takes time. The only way to fuel in 5-10 minutes is to have buffer tanks that are pre-filled.


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    Keith

     

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    Mar 19th, 2009 (1:18 am)

    I have said it before and I will say it again . Jay Leno and Lyle should do the first commercial for the Volt . Both are supporters of this exciting technologically important development .
    Jay has the personality and the recognition that is needed and Lyle has the convictions that are shared only by others who know about and appreciate this site .
    Together they would create such a positive reaction to the Volt that nobody could resist checking it out and want to buy one for themselves .
    Lyle on his own wont do much for the Volt as he is not a known personality ( except by us ) on TV or in the auto industry as a spokesman . Leno is known and respected by everybody .
    I for one , don’t want to see Lyle drive a mule as they are not the finished product and I sure would not want to see any sign of disappointment on his face or hear it in his voice or hear him talk about what the finished product might be like .
    I think that GM would do a very smart thing to have Lyle and Jay do a full day of driving and talking about the Volt and sometime during the day have GM announce to them that they are giving the car that they are driving to Lyle as a gift for his efforts and will even pay the taxes on it for him so it costs him nothing out of his pocket . Record his reaction , it would be priceless advertisement for GM .
    The real thing is important and I believe that it is worth waiting for .
    Then post the whole thing on you tube .


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    Herm

     

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    Mar 19th, 2009 (8:03 am)

    The Volt has essentially a perfect infinite gears transmission, so it will efficiently use the power of the genset once the 40 mile electric range is exhausted.. yet there are losses in generating the power, usually 5-20% and there are losses in the motor/controller too of 10-20% so its not all perfect.

    The Prius also has a perfect electric transmission, exactly matching the engine output to what is needed to keep the car going on the hwy (by electronically tweaking the generator/motor combo).. but it has a slight edge in efficiency in the hwy since it can directly couple the engine to the wheels, bypassing the electrical losses. Thus the Prius will get better hwy mileage past the 40 mile electric range.

    This does not matter much since 78% of the public will not exceed 40 miles anyway on a daily basis.

    Short trips the advantage is vastly in the Volts direction since the Prius must warm up the ICE even in short trips. Potentially GM could do interesting things to the genset since it runs at a constant rpm with predictable and stable loads.. again it may not be a good investment since 78% of the public will never need that super fancy genset.

    In conclusion, GM did good thinking on this.


  175. [...] [Source: GM-Volt] [...]


  176. [...] is not here yet so it takes a little longer to fill.”Gallery: 2010 Toyota Prius[Source: GM-Volt]Filed under: EV/Plug-in, Hybrid, GM, Toyota, Green DailyJay Leno: “I think you’ll find that the [...]


  177. [...] is not here yet so it takes a little longer to fill.”Gallery: 2010 Toyota Prius[Source: GM-Volt]Filed under: EV/Plug-in, Hybrid, GM, Toyota, Green DailyJay Leno: “I think you’ll find that the [...]


  178. [...] [Sourc&#101: GM-Volt] [...]


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    Inhaling in L.A.

     

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    Mar 19th, 2009 (11:48 am)

    Thursday March 19, 2009, 12:42 pm EDT ~ Auto suppliers to get $5 billion in aid

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The Treasury Department, trying to stabilize the battered auto industry, will provide up to $5 billion in financing to troubled auto parts suppliers who are linked to Detroit’s car makers, officials said Thursday.

    The funding would be made available from the government’s Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP, said two congressional aides briefed on the plan.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Auto-suppliers-to-get-5-apf-14691044.html


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    john1701a

     

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    Mar 19th, 2009 (12:32 pm)

    Short trips the advantage is vastly in the Volts direction since the Prius must warm up the ICE even in short trips.
    _____________________

    SMTD. Being vague allows for assumptions.

    The warm-up isn’t “vastly” different. I pull out of my garage, drive 2 blocks to the light (about a 1/10 of a mile) and the engine shuts off right after I come to a complete stop. That’s a 2004.

    The 2010 Prius has a new system which shortens warm-up time. It also has an EV button.


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    Mar 19th, 2009 (3:15 pm)

    #178 john1701a

    The 2010 Toyota Prius is a good improvement over the current models. But, even saying that, the Prius will not stack up to the Volt as well as some would want. It is a darn good vehicle and I would like to have one. But, I would rather have the Volt. Use as little gas as possible.


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    Mar 19th, 2009 (4:01 pm)

    the Prius will not stack up to the Volt as well as some would want.
    ________________________

    By “some”, you mean enthusiasts. History overwhelming confirms that consumers rate purchase price as a much higher priority than efficiency above 50 MPG.

    Of the 12,000,000 per year, how many are enthusiasts?

    Appealing to the mainstream market is very different from what those here crave.


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    N Riley

     

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    Mar 19th, 2009 (4:16 pm)

    Well, I can’t argue with your logic. I just mean for me, the Volt is the way to go. It has what I really want in a car – except for the high price. The plug-in Prius will cost about the same as the Volt. Either of the two cars will be much better than what we are used to driving. Both are a vast improvement and should be welcomed by all parties. I have nothing against the Prius. I almost bought one in October. If the 2010 Prius had been available when I was looking, I probably would have purchased it.


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    Mar 19th, 2009 (5:41 pm)

    #180 john1701a:

    12,000,000? More like 9,000,000 this year, from what I’ve seen. It may be awhile before we see 12 million again.


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    Mar 19th, 2009 (6:01 pm)

    More like 9,000,000 this year
    ___________________

    Volt sales will account for 1/10 of 1 percent of that in 2011.

    FULL hybrids will be about 4 percent.

    See the problem? Traditional vehicles are the force to be fighting against. The quibbling about which hybrid is “superior” is counter-productive.


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    rex

     

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    Mar 19th, 2009 (10:13 pm)

    Leno is an idiot. He should stick to telling bad jokes and getting his butt kicked in the ratings by Letterman.
    He wouldn’t know a high mileagae car if it drove over him. Maybe Arnold’s convinced him to go into politics. He can be mayor of Detroit. They’ll love him until they realize most of the cars is his collection were made in EUROPE!


  187. [...] Source: GM Volt [...]


  188. [...] Baker Electric and drives a fuel cell Equinox daily. In an interview with GM-Volt.com this week, Jay Leno reportedly said: “I think you’ll find that the Volt will be a superior package to the Prius.” [...]


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    Michael Robinson

     

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    Mar 21st, 2009 (1:40 am)

    Note that Leno likes the Chevy Equinox fuel cell vehicle. The wide
    distribution of hydrnol will solve the infrastructure problem once and
    for all perhaps. The car that needs attention is the Chevy Equinox
    fuel cell vehicle. Come on GM, be the first to market a successful
    fuel cell vehicle. Chrysler is going to beat you big time. Toyota
    isn’t far behind.


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    Michael Robinson

     

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    Mar 21st, 2009 (1:52 am)

    Note that hydrnol is an organic hydrogen binding compound that
    doesn’t have to be compressed. Just pump in the hydrnol liquid
    and pump out the byproduct for recycling. Very efficient and very
    fast.