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	<title>Comments on: The Current State of Chevy Volt Prototype Testing and Development</title>
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	<link>http://gm-volt.com/2009/03/17/the-current-state-of-chevy-volt-prototype-testing-and-development/</link>
	<description>Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt.</description>
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		<title>By: A. Z. K. Sanders</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2009/03/17/the-current-state-of-chevy-volt-prototype-testing-and-development/#comment-101815</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Z. K. Sanders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Mar 2009 16:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1573#comment-101815</guid>
		<description>#112 Marinko says the Volt could be improved by redesigning it as a conventional parallel hybrid, &quot;adding an extra NiMH battery or two...&quot;  It will take much more to get noticeable benefit.

This remark suggests that even among knowledgeable people, there is confusion about what the difference is and what the advantages are between a Prius/Insight hybrid (&quot;parallel hybrid&quot;) and a Volt (&quot;series&quot; or &quot;extended range electric car&quot;).  

A Prius/Insight hybrid should more descriptively be called a &quot;battery-assisted gasoline engine car&quot;.  Or &quot;smooth-driving efficiency-improved car&quot;.  Its advantage is a nice smooth feel, especially at low speeds. Also efficiency increased to 40 to 50 mpg.  Part of this is due to smaller size and lower  aerodynamic &quot;drag&quot;.  The rest of the efficiency gain is due to a somewhat larger battery enabling sophisticated electrical controls and software.  The larger battery cuts in automatically to improve acceleration, permitting a smaller, more efficient engine to be used.  It also enables regenerative braking and automatic engine turn-off in traffic, all improving efficiency.  These are important achievements; and the relatively small battery adds little cost, permitting a lower selling price.

The Volt has all the above advantages.  However, in addition, it has one additional huge advantage of its own.  Because it has a relatively large battery, the 80% of drivers who drive less than 40 mile daily can operate it without using gasoline after it has been plugged in overnight.  In contrast, a Prius/Insight hybrid (because of its tiny battery) can be operated without gasoline for only a mile; not worth mentioning.  A hybrid&#039;s one advantage over the Volt is a lower cost (due to the small battery) and therefore lower selling price.

For the owner, the Volt&#039;s advantage is lower operating expense.  For the 80% of drivers traveling less than 40 miles daily, there is no gasoline expenditure at all.  For a driver traveling, say, 80 miles daily (assuming 40 mpg for the second 40 miles to make the arithmetic easy), the daily cost is only one gallon of gasoline.  (The cost of plug-in electricity off the grid is usually so cheap it may be ignored.)  Each driver must decide for himself whether the higher initial cost is sufficiently rapidly recovered from his gasoline savings.  It depends on the higher car price, gasoline price at the time and number of miles he drives.

For the nation, there are several advantages of the extreme gasoline-saving  of the Volt.  There is freedom from dependence on unreliable, even hostile, oil-exporting foreign sources.  Second, there is improvement of our unfavorable balance of trade; eliminating outflow of up to a trillion dollars yearly (depending on oil price, which long-term will surely go up) and which makes us poorer and oil-exporting nations richer.  Third, there is lower pollution, even from coal-burning power plants, which, being fewer and larger, lend them selves to better regulation.  Fourth, there is reduction of climate change for the same reason.

However, implicit in the whole program is the substitution of non-polluting renewable solar energy sources for fossil fuels.  The Mohave desert is currently being developed based on huge contracts from California utility companies  to build solar plants.  

The final piece of the puzzle is improvement of the national transmission grid to bring power from the desert to the distant load centers.  This can be treated as a public work, like the interstate highway system and is especially welcome at this time for economic stimulation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#112 Marinko says the Volt could be improved by redesigning it as a conventional parallel hybrid, &#8220;adding an extra NiMH battery or two&#8230;&#8221;  It will take much more to get noticeable benefit.</p>
<p>This remark suggests that even among knowledgeable people, there is confusion about what the difference is and what the advantages are between a Prius/Insight hybrid (&#8220;parallel hybrid&#8221;) and a Volt (&#8220;series&#8221; or &#8220;extended range electric car&#8221;).  </p>
<p>A Prius/Insight hybrid should more descriptively be called a &#8220;battery-assisted gasoline engine car&#8221;.  Or &#8220;smooth-driving efficiency-improved car&#8221;.  Its advantage is a nice smooth feel, especially at low speeds. Also efficiency increased to 40 to 50 mpg.  Part of this is due to smaller size and lower  aerodynamic &#8220;drag&#8221;.  The rest of the efficiency gain is due to a somewhat larger battery enabling sophisticated electrical controls and software.  The larger battery cuts in automatically to improve acceleration, permitting a smaller, more efficient engine to be used.  It also enables regenerative braking and automatic engine turn-off in traffic, all improving efficiency.  These are important achievements; and the relatively small battery adds little cost, permitting a lower selling price.</p>
<p>The Volt has all the above advantages.  However, in addition, it has one additional huge advantage of its own.  Because it has a relatively large battery, the 80% of drivers who drive less than 40 mile daily can operate it without using gasoline after it has been plugged in overnight.  In contrast, a Prius/Insight hybrid (because of its tiny battery) can be operated without gasoline for only a mile; not worth mentioning.  A hybrid&#8217;s one advantage over the Volt is a lower cost (due to the small battery) and therefore lower selling price.</p>
<p>For the owner, the Volt&#8217;s advantage is lower operating expense.  For the 80% of drivers traveling less than 40 miles daily, there is no gasoline expenditure at all.  For a driver traveling, say, 80 miles daily (assuming 40 mpg for the second 40 miles to make the arithmetic easy), the daily cost is only one gallon of gasoline.  (The cost of plug-in electricity off the grid is usually so cheap it may be ignored.)  Each driver must decide for himself whether the higher initial cost is sufficiently rapidly recovered from his gasoline savings.  It depends on the higher car price, gasoline price at the time and number of miles he drives.</p>
<p>For the nation, there are several advantages of the extreme gasoline-saving  of the Volt.  There is freedom from dependence on unreliable, even hostile, oil-exporting foreign sources.  Second, there is improvement of our unfavorable balance of trade; eliminating outflow of up to a trillion dollars yearly (depending on oil price, which long-term will surely go up) and which makes us poorer and oil-exporting nations richer.  Third, there is lower pollution, even from coal-burning power plants, which, being fewer and larger, lend them selves to better regulation.  Fourth, there is reduction of climate change for the same reason.</p>
<p>However, implicit in the whole program is the substitution of non-polluting renewable solar energy sources for fossil fuels.  The Mohave desert is currently being developed based on huge contracts from California utility companies  to build solar plants.  </p>
<p>The final piece of the puzzle is improvement of the national transmission grid to bring power from the desert to the distant load centers.  This can be treated as a public work, like the interstate highway system and is especially welcome at this time for economic stimulation.</p>
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		<title>By: noel park</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2009/03/17/the-current-state-of-chevy-volt-prototype-testing-and-development/#comment-101311</link>
		<dc:creator>noel park</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1573#comment-101311</guid>
		<description>#125 Herm:

I agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#125 Herm:</p>
<p>I agree.</p>
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		<title>By: Herm</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2009/03/17/the-current-state-of-chevy-volt-prototype-testing-and-development/#comment-101281</link>
		<dc:creator>Herm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:52:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1573#comment-101281</guid>
		<description>Actually recharging Lithium cells is nearly 100% efficient, that drops as you try to cram the last little bit of energy in as they reach full charge.  Nimh are usually around 80% efficient during charge/discharge.

A modern transformerless charger can be over 90% efficient. The associated wire and plug will probably be heavier than the charger in the Volt. There is no reason that future long range electric cars need an on-board high power charger, that charger can be left at the fast charging station.

.....................................................
#123 Bob G Says: 
March 18th, 2009 at 9:21 pm

Your math doesn’t take into account losses in the charger and battery. To get 8KWh stored in the battery, you’ll need to pull more out of the wall. I think that will push the current up to more like 12.5 A.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually recharging Lithium cells is nearly 100% efficient, that drops as you try to cram the last little bit of energy in as they reach full charge.  Nimh are usually around 80% efficient during charge/discharge.</p>
<p>A modern transformerless charger can be over 90% efficient. The associated wire and plug will probably be heavier than the charger in the Volt. There is no reason that future long range electric cars need an on-board high power charger, that charger can be left at the fast charging station.</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..<br />
#123 Bob G Says:<br />
March 18th, 2009 at 9:21 pm</p>
<p>Your math doesn’t take into account losses in the charger and battery. To get 8KWh stored in the battery, you’ll need to pull more out of the wall. I think that will push the current up to more like 12.5 A.</p>
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		<title>By: Herm</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2009/03/17/the-current-state-of-chevy-volt-prototype-testing-and-development/#comment-101280</link>
		<dc:creator>Herm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1573#comment-101280</guid>
		<description>The Lithium manganese cells are usually 1C recharge cells so by definition no less than 1 hr charge times.. but most of the heat produced in lithium cells happens when charging the last little bit of capacity into the battery or discharging the last little bit of capacity. So if you did only partial recharges (and considering that the Volt cools its batteries) then perhaps short charge times under 1hr are possible.

The advantage of the A123 cells is that they simply do not heat up as much as regular cells, thus allowing insane recharge times and prolonging battery life if used in normal conditions. Their other advantage is their tolerance for overcharges, a big no-no with other lithium cells.

But I agree with you, its not practical or necessary to fast charge a Volt.


.........................................

#84 
Dave G Says: 
March 17th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

The Volt’s battery pack will charge much faster then 3 hours, probably as fast as 30-45 minutes without any increased wear on the battery</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Lithium manganese cells are usually 1C recharge cells so by definition no less than 1 hr charge times.. but most of the heat produced in lithium cells happens when charging the last little bit of capacity into the battery or discharging the last little bit of capacity. So if you did only partial recharges (and considering that the Volt cools its batteries) then perhaps short charge times under 1hr are possible.</p>
<p>The advantage of the A123 cells is that they simply do not heat up as much as regular cells, thus allowing insane recharge times and prolonging battery life if used in normal conditions. Their other advantage is their tolerance for overcharges, a big no-no with other lithium cells.</p>
<p>But I agree with you, its not practical or necessary to fast charge a Volt.</p>
<p>&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>#84<br />
Dave G Says:<br />
March 17th, 2009 at 3:07 pm</p>
<p>The Volt’s battery pack will charge much faster then 3 hours, probably as fast as 30-45 minutes without any increased wear on the battery</p>
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		<title>By: Herm</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2009/03/17/the-current-state-of-chevy-volt-prototype-testing-and-development/#comment-101277</link>
		<dc:creator>Herm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Mar 2009 13:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1573#comment-101277</guid>
		<description>I may be weird in the head, but I LIKE the looks of the Prius, Insight and Volt...  AND the Prius has plenty of power, even with two 300lb passengers in it :)

I worry about the VW reliability track record compared to Toyota.

I even like the looks of that Mercedes fish shaped concept car that came out a few years ago.

http://news.mongabay.com/2005/0710-DaimlerChrysler.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be weird in the head, but I LIKE the looks of the Prius, Insight and Volt&#8230;  AND the Prius has plenty of power, even with two 300lb passengers in it <img src='http://gm-volt.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I worry about the VW reliability track record compared to Toyota.</p>
<p>I even like the looks of that Mercedes fish shaped concept car that came out a few years ago.</p>
<p><a href="http://news.mongabay.com/2005/0710-DaimlerChrysler.html" rel="nofollow">http://news.mongabay.com/2005/0710-DaimlerChrysler.html</a></p>
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