Mar 08

Presidents Auto Task Force Members to Test Drive Chevy Volt Mule

 

Monday members of President Obama’s Auto Task Force will be visiting GM’s headquarters in Detroit. This trip is intended to be part of the Task Force’s effort to decide whether GM is a viable company, the deadline for which is March 31st. A decree of viability will likely enable GM to receive further loans, the alternative could be bankruptcy.

The Task Force is led by by Wall Street financier Steven Rattner and Steelworkers union official Ron Bloom who will both be in attendance The team will meet with senior GM executives as well as top UAW officials. Some of the day they will be at Chrysler’s headquarters.

The team’s visit includes a stop at GM’s Warren Technical Center where the Chevy Volt development program is based. Some of the Chevy Volt mules are being tested there.

Per the Associated Press, anonymous sources report that members of the Task Force will actually be given an opportunity to test drive the Volt prototype.

Cabinet level members of the team including Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and White House economic adviser Larry Summers, will not be in attendance.

Meanwhile John McCain who did not get a test drive when he visited the Volt, speaking for the Republicans issued a stern statement. He told Fox New Sunday “The best thing that could probably happen to General Motors, in my view, is they go into Chapter 11.”

We look forward to the test drive, and the review better be good. That little Volt prototype now hold the keys to GM’s survival.

Source (AP) and (Bloomberg)

This entry was posted on Sunday, March 8th, 2009 at 8:36 pm and is filed under Financial, Politics, Prototypes, Test drive. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 118


  1. 1
    Michael D

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (8:45 pm)

    First!!

    I’m glad the Volt is getting the publicity. . . but no drive for Lyle??


  2. 2
    hayley

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (8:48 pm)

    for some reason, not letting lyle test drive seems fishy to me… are they not as far along as they are making us believe?

    Things aren’t looking so good for GM, but I’m still hoping the Volt will be the first car I buy, Ch 11 or not…


  3. 3
    Right Lane Cruiser

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (9:03 pm)

    This is indeed the time for this car to shine, but are test drives really going to prove much to the group? They aren’t likely to take more than a few miles of driving per person… and frankly that could all be done with a few lead acid batteries and no generator at all.

    Not that GM would stoop to that level. ;)


  4. 4
    Greg Simpson

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (9:03 pm)

    I agree with McCain, but since chapter 11 would be very bad for the UAW I expect the administration to do everything they can to avoid it.


  5. 5
    Lurtz

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (9:07 pm)

    My Three American Cars

    At age 16, my first vehicle was a 1975 Ford F100, three-speed , shift on the column. It was a pretty good truck.

    Last week I turned 40. Every vehicle I have owned and operated in the intervening years was or is “American Made”.

    … since the mid 1980s, I have been very pleased with my American cars.
    Back in the 70’s or 80’s Merle Haggard Are the Good Times Really Over for Good sang “Wish a Ford and a Chevy would still last ten years, like they should.”

    Well Merle, thirteen years and 216,000 miles later, I’m driving the answer to that song.

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/3/8/185217/6215/702/706131


  6. 6
    Dave B

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (9:09 pm)

    Chapter 11 will kill the UAW, period. It would permit GM to reincorporate into GM, LLC. Poof, no more debt and no more UAW. Granted, Poof, this shareholder may go up in smoke due to my extreme displeasure with the bullshit spin comig out of GM’s finanical disclosures. What I suspect will happen is a massive loan like AIG in exchange for a huge stake in stock. The feds will realize this has more to do with national security than with the economy. I’d prefer the National Security team be there rather than the economic advisors who IMO are not exactly listening to reason. Logic has bankruptcy written all over this one folks. Even I can see that.


  7. 7
    The Grump

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (9:32 pm)

    I agree with #4 Greg – McCain has it right. The taxpayers won’t stand for GM being bailed out again and again – the UAW, the retirees, the Dealers, the Suppliers, and the Shareholders all have to take proportional cuts to save GM long-term. Outside Chapter 11, I don’t see that happening.

    The UAW is playing a gigantic game of “chicken” with the government – they’re betting the government continues under Obama to bail out GM again and again. This won’t fly with the taxpayers when GM doesn’t seem to be in any big hurry to bring out a Prius / Insight killer to compete with the other “Big 2″, Toyota and Honda.

    And the Volt? Joe Public is thinking “Oh, that’s one of those wild “concept cars” – GM will never really produce it”. Joe Public wants a GM made Prius or Insight – today, not next year. GM’s answer is to offer fewer models of it’s existing cars. I guess Wagner thinks that this is the way to prosperity – offer fewer choices. What an idiot.

    I said it before, I’ll say it again – If I ran GM, I would have had every popular foreign car (Camry, Accord, Prius) reverse engineered the same year they came out. Right now, the newest GM concept to hit showroom floors is the HHR. Truly original, in a retro tiny panel truck kind of way.

    But did it occur to Wagner to hybridize the HHR? Of course not. He’s an idiot, remember? Dumb as a bag of hammers, dumb as a box of rocks, flew in a private luxury jet to beg for taxpayer money, couldn’t pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel – that kind of idiot.

    Solution – Chapter 11 for GM, and demote Wagner to mens room attendant.


  8. 8
    jeff j

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (9:40 pm)

    A group of people with Zero knowledge of Auto’s and the Auto business and not one of them drive a American made Car , Oh boy !!
    I’m getting a tingly feeling run up my leg !!!
    What a nightmare!!!!


  9. 9
    statik

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (9:55 pm)

    You just knew this was going to happen. A handful of guys from the ‘task force’ (but not the ‘real’ guys) go out and do some PR stunt-casting extraordinaire…what the heck does this have to do with the price of cheese…or viability.

    —————-
    From the article:
    “Per the Associated Press, anonymous sources report that members of the Task Force will actually be given an opportunity to test drive the Volt prototype.”

    I don’t see any reference to anyone driving the ‘prototype’ in the article…just has generic ‘Volt’ language…does such a thing (a prototype) even exist? Or are we just talking about the mules again.

    Side note:
    How disappointing is it that we are still at the ‘mule’ stage? That is so 15 months ago, lol. You would think they would have ‘skinned’ at least one car to show off by now. We have been promised a working prototype since late 2007.

    If they got one, this would be the time to show it off.

    /fingers crossed


  10. 10
    Red HHR

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (10:10 pm)

    Well, I hope they find the time to put some hubcaps on the one and only prototype….

    Red HHR


  11. 11
    Dave G

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (10:16 pm)

    #2 hayley Says: for some reason, not letting lyle test drive seems fishy to me… are they not as far along as they are making us believe?
    ————————————————————————————–
    They gave Chris Paine, the guy that made “Who Killed The Electric Car” a test drive:
    http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/21/who-drove-the-electric-car-chris-paine-drives-volt-mule/
    They wouldn’t have done that if the mules were fishy.


  12. 12
    kent beuchert

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (10:28 pm)

    “Survival” via a loan that will never be repaid is not my idea of survival. Nothing will have changed and we allknwo that the impact of the Volt on GM’s bottom line is totally insignificant. If those bozos from Obama’s corrupt-ridden cabinet (containing more unindicted
    people than a Mafia get-together) try to BS the Volt situation, they better hope that the brainless media present don’t know squat about the BYD offerrings, one model of which is driving down the streets of China as they speak. Obama’s administration depdends heavilly upon a press that is either a cheerleader or just plain dumb.
    Or at least as dumb as they are.


  13. 13
    Lurtz

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (10:56 pm)

    Kent Beuchert – AIG got an additional $30 _billion_ bailout just this quarter. You cool with that? Or are you only *situationally* morally opposed?


  14. 14
    Jim I

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (11:08 pm)

    Government has become all about the perception of reality, not actual reality…..

    And they think they have become so good that they can spin a snowstorm into a sunny day, and we will continue to buy it!!!

    Note to GM: If you can give these clowns a Volt test drive, don’t you think it is time to let Lyle come up to the test track for the day and run the car through it’s paces??? I think he has earned it!


  15. 15
    drivin98

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (11:12 pm)

    The BYD F3DM may be on the road but if GM were to release a car of similar quality, they would have the whole country laughing at them. Even BYD admit their car isn’t really up to snuff quality-wise.

    Also, to put GM into chapter 11 will not only affect the UAW punching bag but start a cascade affect of bankruptcies of GM suppliers who are holding a lot of the companies debt. These receivables help them get financing for operations and if struck from the books…well, many companies would cease operating and the effect might be a lot worse than many of you realize. That is the situation everyone is trying to avoid and the reason for billions in loans.


  16. 16
    Gordon

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (11:22 pm)

    Based on reports from this blog, GM has the factories retooling or in place for the batteries, the chassis, and the body. Even the software that controls the EREV system. Mules have been in testing for, what, a couple of months now?

    Sounds like all the ducks are in a row to follow through with a (what was the term..) ‘controlled bankruptcy’ or ‘prepaid bankruptcy’.

    Wouldn’t that be the likely outcome? GM makes a quick turnaround in BK court and focuses on the brands and models with the best long-term profitablilty. [VOLT and Converj hopefully at the top of the list.] And with luck, out from under the thumb of old UAW contracts.

    Or, are they just blindly building cars (like the Camaro) and trucks as a time-killer until the axe falls…?

    SOMEBODY has a Plan B. We just don’t know the details yet. That’s my guess.


  17. 17
    Casey

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (11:33 pm)

    Maybe there will be a small company called Volt

    JGTVWOTR

    NO PLUG, NO SALE


  18. 18
    hayley

     

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    Mar 8th, 2009 (11:53 pm)

    @11 Dave G “They gave Chris Paine, the guy that made “Who Killed The Electric Car” a test drive:
    http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/21/who-drove-the-electric-car-chris-paine-drives-volt-mule/
    They wouldn’t have done that if the mules were fishy.”

    True, and Lutz drove that prototype or whatever to the congressional hearing in DC, but I haven’t heard much news about progress for a long time now. Guess I’ll just have to settle for waiting in the dark for now =\

    In history class we always learn about how great unions are for “the people” but now they seem like such a nuisance and I can’t wait for the auto one to disappear.


  19. 19
    GM-fan

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:11 am)

    Can someone tell me why we need to bailout a company cannot make Gross profit….?

    Volt cannot save GM. GM is a big giant, they cannot survive rely on only one product….not even mention they are competite hardly with Japs….

    Ch11 is the only choice…..yes, it’s painful, but bailout GM means you are delaying the problem again…..you are creating a monster, not profitable, destroying productivity of US, unlimited suck up all taxpayer money …etc

    We are repeating what Japs done after 1987…..not write down the loss and we will have “lost decade” also…….

    which one is more terrible??? Sometimes, over is over, we can’t live in imagination


  20. 20
    Marcus R (WL #5275)

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:14 am)

    There’s a lot of negativity, finger-pointing and general grousing round here lately. Reflects the country’s attitudes towards all things bailout I guess. This whole task force thing strikes me as a bit of theatre. The Volt’s a nice concept but it can’t save GM today or next year. Sadly its still about 5-6 years from making a real impact on GM’s balance sheet and one successful car does not make an automaker viable. GM already has several well-made cars with good reviews and it helps, but there’s still too much wrong with the company to fix with just one more model.

    Having stated that, they’re going to get bailed out because bankruptcy would be a total disaster for more than just GM. We’ve spent much more on companies that give us much less than real goods or employ or ensure the employment of so many people.

    Also, I agree with all commenters stating that its well past time Dr Dennis gets his test drive.


  21. 21
    solo2500nt

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:15 am)

    If G.M. were smart, they would put our government task force types in a fully charged Volt Mule and tell them to drive it until the engine starts.

    When the engine starts, (hopefully after 40 miles), I would rig the radio to come on and play a recording telling our government task force types the car they just drove is at least 2 years ahead of Toyota, and Honda.

    Realistically however, the Volt is not going to be a money maker for several years. Toyota took 8 years to build a following for the Prius. The Volt won’t take nearly as long, it will only take 4 dollar a gallon gas. The big problem for G.M. is the economy and from what I see, no government task force can fix that after both short sighted political parties have successfully forced 80% of America’s industrial base out of business or offshore.

    I had some hope the new administration would figure this out. My hopes were dashed with the ‘stimulus’ bull, (I mean bill….).


  22. 22
    john1701a

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:25 am)

    AIG got an additional $30 _billion_ bailout just this quarter. You cool with that? Or are you only *situationally* morally opposed?
    ________________________________

    We’ve been dealing with GM’s problem for way longer than AIG.

    GM repeatedly, on several fronts denied, the need to create a competitive (emissions & efficiency) new technology midsize-midprice vehicle. In fact, they still do.

    Neither BAS nor Two-Mode has made any real headway, despite all the hype. And of course, they killed the EV.

    The task-force may like the technology in Volt. It’s promising for the future… but certainly not anything to compete with either Prius or Fusion-Hybrid in the meantime. Relying on traditional vehicles alone for return to profitability and loan payback is quite a stretch.

    That little Volt prototype now hold the keys to GM’s survival.” will require some good solid facts to support. How will that survival over the next 4 years be provided by Volt?


  23. 23
    john1701a

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:29 am)

    Toyota took 8 years to build a following for the Prius.
    ________________________

    You can’t be serious.

    Way back then… high gas prices were a fantasy, “global warming” was a crock, misconceptions were abundant, and the competition was fighting fiercely to prevent change. For that matter, internet sharing was still in its infancy.

    Of course the acceptance duration will be much shorter… now!


  24. 24
    Steven

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (1:03 am)

    Ridiculous waste of time. What do finance guys need to drive a car for? Their job is to crunch numbers and figure out have to save whats left of the company. Mcain is right in this case.


  25. 25
    omnimoeish

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (1:06 am)

    #21 #
    solo2500nt Says

    “The big problem for G.M. is the economy and from what I see, no government task force can fix that after both short sighted political parties have successfully forced 80% of America’s industrial base out of business or offshore.”
    ______________________________________________________
    I completely agree that that is “the big problem”. However, Obama and his advisers are not stupid, they know what America’s automakers mean to this country economically. Obama has also recently stated that “Energy” is numero uno on his priority list of things to fix. Plus, they know the old Wall Street saying, “As GM goes, so does America”. There is nothing that a bankruptcy judge can do that Obama’s task force/congress can’t do outside of court. Besides the stigma of “bankruptcy” that would be terribly difficult to overcome for an automaker, there’s no guarantee some random bankruptcy judge will correctly handle this situation on which America’s future depends.

    I am guessing that what’s most likely to happen is the auto czars will get together with GM/Chrysler executives and the UAW leaders and go over their viability plans, tweak it some, and finally make some tough decisions. Time is GM’s enemy (and consequently the enemy of the entire US economy). Whatever is going to be done, it needs to be figured in the next few weeks.

    They may not know much about cars, and especially American cars, but they must realize by now that even under the most wildly optimistic conditions (regarding the economy both international and domestic, and upcoming product embracement such as the Camaro, the Volt, the Spark, whatever) GM won’t be anywhere near the black for another 3-4 years (even with UAW concessions and what not), with more reasonable forecasts putting that time frame coming for at least 5-10 years (given that in 2007 during the hiatus of the American economy, GM still hemoraged $37+ billion, and now with no end in sight for this perfect storm of a recession…).

    With that time frame being in the back of their minds, along with the recent failure to pass the first bail out through congress, forcing Bush to resort to the rapidly diminishing tarp funds, they know that there’s no way to keep spoon feeding GM for that long. I’d be willing to bet they wouldn’t even get one more $15 billion bail out approved by Congress unless there are some major changes.

    Obama’s team is basically going to have to make a plan, whatever must be done, and get congress to sign off on it, and if that doesn’t happen, God be with us. I have a feeling it’s going to be very harsh on creditors and UAW legacy costs. The parts suppliers are probably going to get off relatively easy because they are on the edge of a cliff themselves. There will probably be $80+ billion worth of preferred stock options purchased and GM will be quazi nationalized.

    As for Chrysler? Their goose is cooked. Nobody is even pretending to hide this now. Consumer reports practically went out of their way to rip Chrysler’s quality and reliability a new one. Chrysler will just have to be shotgunned married to GM. Over the next few years, GM and Chrysler dealerships are going to get hammered into oblivion to try to adjust to their rapidly dwindling market share. Basically Toyota and Honda have won this round (it’s almost a slap in the face that Honda only asked for $100 million of bail out money from the Japanese government), but just when you think America’s down, that’s when we come back swinging.


  26. 26
    unni

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (1:57 am)

    Still mules ? I thought some some finished volts are available. GM should know there is something called integration testing also :-) . all components may work but they don’t work as a system in a expected way.

    Lyle, when is you drive exp post coming?


  27. 27
    ccombs

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (3:24 am)

    Chapter 11 would be great, but I fear that McCain will never get his way. This democratic administration can’t preside over the death of the UAW- it would be political suicide. Lots of people want to stop the bailouts, but those with actual power (big union donors, etc.) don’t. That is why they keep happening even though polls continually show majority opposition. The bailouts will continue…


  28. [...] Technical Center in Detroit tomorrow to help decide if the company deserves more federal loans. [GM-Volt via [...]


  29. 29
    TED in Fort Myers

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (4:55 am)

    A good test drive will make the difference as to whether GM gets more money. There is little doubt about that. I just hope they love what they drive the same way Lyle will love it when he drives it the same way I will love it when I drive it. They don’t even have to be car guys….The nearly silent propulsion system will win their hearts.
    Take Care,
    TED


  30. 30
    RB

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (6:07 am)

    #25 omnimoeish said ” There is nothing that a bankruptcy judge can do that Obama’s task force/congress can’t do outside of court.”
    —————————————-

    Just as a technicality, such an equivalence is not the case. A bankruptcy power is a part of the judicial branch and has quite a few powers not available to an executive branch committee. For example, in bankruptcy a minority of holdout bondholders can be brought into line by court order.

    As another example the order of payments to creditors can be rearranged, so that suppliers get paid first and the company stays in business. (That’s a result that #15 drivin98 might welcome, even though that post opposed c11.)

    In c11,some contracts can be voided despite state regulations, perhaps some of those with dealerships. More positively, a bankruptcy court allows a forum for all the competing financial stakeholders to be heard, whereas an executive branch committee basically makes their own rules, which inevitably is somewhat arbitrary and political.

    So whether or not we here think c11 is a good idea, really we should not start thinking of an executive branch committee as somehow its equivalent. It just is not. Proceedings in court have something of a bad reputation, but they do at least have rules that are established and powers that are proportional to the task.


  31. 31
    BillR

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (6:09 am)

    I don’t know the inclination of all the potential car buyers in the marketplace, but my wife would like to get something like the Acadia or Enclave. However, even though16/23 city/hwy is good mileage for an 8 passenger AWD, it’s not good enough today. Not with the fear of gas prices returning to $4 per gallon.

    So we are waiting/hoping that maybe a 2-mode version or BAS+ or something similar will be available for these vehicles in the next few years.

    Now if others are like us, then GM needs to concentrate on getting more hybrids/E-REV on the road. Its not that we don’t like their vehicles, because they are some of the best you can buy, it’s just that it’s too risky to buy a standard ICE driven vehicle today in light of the fact that we may see huge spikes in oil prices at any time (even with good supplies, what happens to oil prices if Iran detonates a test nuclear device?).


  32. 32
    RB

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (6:14 am)

    #29 TED says “A good test drive will make the difference as to whether GM gets more money. There is little doubt about that. I just hope they love what they drive the same way Lyle will love it when he drives it the same way I will love it when I drive it. They don’t even have to be car guys….The nearly silent propulsion system will win their hearts.”
    ——————————————————

    I completely agree. One might even say that the whole purpose of the Volt program is to create a “prototype” (mule) that can serve this political purpose — showing that GM is the “right kind” of company to be receiving government money.

    Income from any Volt sales that might occur sometime in the future will be small potatoes compared to what Volt has done already and is doing right now. Indeed the Volt has found its purpose in life. :)


  33. 33
    RB

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (6:18 am)

    #31 BillR says “it’s just that it’s too risky to buy a standard ICE driven vehicle today in light of the fact that we may see huge spikes in oil prices at any time ”
    ————————————————————

    Such a spike might occur, but it is unlikely to last long. Over decades the price of oil more or less has remained the same, in dollars, once inflation is taken into account. That trend having been established for so long, one sees blips (such as the one recently) that are painful while they last. But, most likely the trend will be about the same.

    That doesn’t affect my personal interest in an electric car, but it will affect the cost relationship between ICE and electric. If the government really wants that to change, it has to happen through higher gas taxes, as in Europe.


  34. 34
    Jim in PA

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (7:07 am)

    Do you think the task force members are flying to Detroit on a private jet? Just wondering….


  35. 35
    john1701a

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (7:19 am)

    Remember the promises that were made about fuel-cell vehicles?


  36. 36
    Dave G

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (7:24 am)

    #18 hayley Says: In history class we always learn about how great unions are for “the people” but now they seem like such a nuisance and I can’t wait for the auto one to disappear.
    ————————————————————————————–
    I also wouldn’t mind if the UAW disappeared, but I don’t really think it would help GM.

    There seems to be a coordinated disinformation effort to blame the UAW for all of GM’s problems. I believe Senators with foreign auto plants in their states would like to eliminate GM. Their game plan seems to be:
    1) Blame the UAW for all the problems with the U.S. auto industry
    2) Tell people the only way to beat the UAW is to force GM into Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
    3) They know that people will hesitate to buy a car from a bankrupt company.
    4) Increased foreign car sales will mean more factories and jobs in their states.

    Here are the facts about the UAW:
    • UAW workers only account for 10% of GM’s costs.
    • If the UAW worked for free, GM would still be in trouble.
    • UAW’s wages are about the same as non-union workers wages ($30-$35 per hour).
    • The UAW has a pension, which pays retired workers.
    • Foreign auto plants don’t have many retired workers. They haven’t been here that long.
    • Payments to retired persons are the main reason UAW costs are much higher.
    • The UAW is willing to take a hit on pensions, but only if everyone else (particularly the bondholders) share the pain.


  37. 37
    nuclearboy

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (7:39 am)

    Chevy Volt picture on front page of Drudge report with a reference to this Govt dog and pony show. This is one of the most widely viewed pages on the world wide web. I think a few more people will be exposed to the Volt today.


  38. 38
    Dave B

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (8:08 am)

    Statik @ 9 says, “Side note:
    How disappointing is it that we are still at the ‘mule’ stage? That is so 15 months ago, lol. You would think they would have ’skinned’ at least one car to show off by now. We have been promised a working prototype since late 2007.

    If they got one, this would be the time to show it off.”
    ————————-

    No joke. I was halfway expecting (hoping rather) that GM would produce or at least unveil a prototype of the Volt EARLY. If ever GM needed some good news, it is now and that is exactly how to do it. Perhaps the naysayers are right?


  39. 39
    Steve K

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (8:53 am)

    People here seem to think if the UAW wages could be lowered, everything would be OK. If they paid the workers nothing at this point, it wouldn’t matter. It is the retirees that they cannot afford. We would end up picking up the bill anyway—-pension guarantee. Maybe retirement benefits could be reduced? Or, we could just hand the oldsters a can of cat food. What a great day for the greatest country in the world.


  40. 40
    Schmeltz

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (8:54 am)

    I don’t know but this sounds like more a formality than anything to me. I would suspect the “Auto Task Force” already pretty much knows what they are going to do–they just have to make it appear that they are carefully considering every option and leaving no stone un-turned here. I mean, c’mon…what is a ride in a prototype really going to tell them that they already don’t know?


  41. 41
    Shawn Marshall

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (8:54 am)

    The gummint will use your money to keep the UAW(via GM) afloat until they pass card check. That will fix Toyota and Honda and Kia and Nissan in the US and it’ll get Walmart too. Welcome to a brave new world.

    They, the gummint, have no business giving my money to GM for a stake in the business, maybe yours but not mine. Everyone ignores the fact that big industrials in the US have been hamstrung by an unholy alliance between government and labor for years. Think a moment about what’s left of the great US industrial companies. Can you think of one?

    However, I would support outright government grants to GM for the development of the Voltec line and for battery research and production. Give them the money; stay out of their business; it isn’t GM’s fault that the government has ruined our economy and the oil bubble wasn’t their fault either. GM’s survival is a critical need for our country. “Free Trade” is not free and it is not fair.


  42. 42
    Top EV

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (9:26 am)

    Compared to the new Swedish solar-electric 4-seater the Volt is just low end electric fluff. Hope they at least get it to work.

    The King of the EV world is the Koenigsegg Quant :

    - 310 mile electric range
    - fully recharges in under 20 minutes
    - 0 to 60 in 5.2 seconds
    - twin A/C motors (one on each rear wheel)
    - 512 HP and 527 lb-ft torque
    - 4 seats
    - tri-zone climate control
    - multiple infotainment display screens
    - whole body has an embedded thin-film solar panel wrapping
    - totally awesome interior/exterior LED detailing

    This car is the bomb. It is what the Volt should have been.
    Oh well, maybe next time GM.


  43. 43
    David K (CT)

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (9:34 am)

    To EV @ #42 says…

    The King of the EV world is the Koenigsegg Quant…

    —————————————————————–

    How much does (will) it cost?


  44. 44
    ThombDbhomb

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (9:36 am)

    #42 Top EV

    It sounds too good to be true. Is it in production? No! Is it beyond concept stage? No! Safety? I suspect that, if it went into production, it would morph more than the Volt did.

    Also, no word yet on pricing or availability.


  45. 45
    Dave G

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (9:39 am)

    #39 Steve K Says: People here seem to think if the UAW wages could be lowered, everything would be OK. If they paid the workers nothing at this point, it wouldn’t matter. It is the retirees that they cannot afford.
    ————————————————————————————–
    Actually, it’s even worse than that. If GM paid UAW workers and retirees nothing, they would still be in trouble. Total UAW compensation (including retirees) is only 10% of GM’s costs.

    THE biggest problem for GM is their bondholders. If the bondholders refuse to make concessions, then GM will go into Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Since most people are skeptical about buying a car from a bankrupt company, it’s unclear how GM would avoid a Chapter 7 liquidation down the road.


  46. 46
    Dave G

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (9:40 am)

    In 1980, Chrysler was bailed out. In this case, Chrysler avoided bankruptcy, but the government reorganized Chrysler much like a Chapter 11 bankruptcy. By 1983, the bailout loans were fully repaid, and Chrysler was a strong company for many years after that.

    I hope GM goes the same way as this. I believe people who advocate Chapter 11 bankruptcy for GM underestimate the stigma that this will have with the American public. I believe a Chapter 11 bankruptcy could quite possibly lead to a Chapter 7 liquidation.


  47. 47
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (9:43 am)

    We all know this is just a PR stunt. These guys getting a ride in a Volt mule or prototype before Lyle is another slap in our face. If GM really wants to get a real good PR stunt, they should invite Lyle to come up and drive the latest version Volt and have some car media people there to do the reporting. Lyle could drive the car with each reporter in the front passenger seat and could be interviewed by the reporter during and after the drive. Or Lyle could discuss his drive during a press conference after the drive.

    It really burns me that these Obama guys don’t even own an American vehicle. They are supposed to be fair to GM? I think they already know how they are going to vote on GM and Chysler’s future. No UAW control of the auto companies means millions of dollars of lost campaign money to the democrat party and no money for the UAW big wigs to “lord” it over the troops. No more private jets for UAW officials, no more posh vacations at UAW expense and no more union members to extract money from. So, yes, they know how they are going to vote and knew it as part of being chosen for the job. These little government junkets to the different sites are just cherries on top of the cake. Eat some cake on the taxpayer’s dime while you can. I wonder how these guys are traveling around the country. Private large capacity jet with a lot of flunkies and friends going along for the trip. Maybe they could borrow Nancy Pelosi’s 200 seat jet. She only uses it each weekend (Friday through Monday) to travel to and from California with family, friends and money givers. Now there is a perk we should cut out and save the tax[payers 100′s of millions per year.

    OK, so we will see what comes of this visit. Nothing that we will be able to see except so PR photos, I suspect.


  48. 48
    Tall Pete

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (9:54 am)

    Steve K # 39

    You’re so right. GM is paying a hefty price for its past success. Because they sold so many cars in the past, they have A LOT of retirees and because they lost market shares since, they don’t have as much profit to spend on their pension plans.

    UAW has nothing to do with that. They didn’t choose what models to bring to market, the white collars and the bean counters did. If America lost the car race, they cannot be blamed.

    They will take a hit nonetheless but they shouldn’t be the only ones.


  49. 49
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (9:55 am)

    Financial decision makers should visit an “applicant” before rendering a decision. It demonstrates good form. Anyone saying anything different is just crabby. Maybe they need another hour’s sleep.


  50. 50
    Dave G

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (9:57 am)

    #42 Top EV Says: Compared to the new Swedish solar-electric 4-seater the Volt is just low end electric fluff.
    ————————————————————————————–
    OK, you go buy one and tell us about it.

    I would never buy an EV without some type of range extender that runs on gasoline.


  51. 51
    DonC

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (10:00 am)

    Somehow I think the millions of jobs at issue are a bigger issue than the test drive in the Volt.

    #47 N. Riley – I’m not sure what you are saying about what will admittedly be a dog and pony test drive. Your idea of a test drive is actually a good one but for the general public, not the considerably more limited audience GM is concerned about at this point.

    You’re just losing it on having some members of the task force go to Detroit. You think that this is a junket to … Detroit? Are you kidding me? Detroit anytime, and especially n March, is not exactly Palm Springs in February. This is clearly not a junket such as those golfing outings to Scotland. IMO it’s a great idea for these guys to go to Detroit since they’ll be able to meet with a wide range of people, some of whom they may be working with later.

    As for “voting,” I don’t think there will technically be any voting. I also don’t think they’ve prejudged this at all, other than knowing the general outline of the issues.

    As for Pelosi’s jet, where exactly do you get your information from? She does travel by government jet, but that’s because she’s second in line for the presidency and the Secret Service rules require it. Her decided preference was to continue to fly commercial. She didn’t get her way. What exactly is your beef?


  52. 52
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (10:00 am)

    I keep reading comments about GM getting out from under the UAW either through negotiations or through Chapter 11 judge ruling. You have to remember that GM has to have skilled workers to run their plants. These skilled workers will be union members employed now at GM. GM made the union wage and benefit problem for themselves. They were the ones at the negotiating table with the UAW. They were the ones who agreed to the union demands. GM made their own bed with the union and I don’t see them getting out of it in the future. Regardless what happens to GM excluding Chapter 7, the union will still be in virtual control of GM’s future. Just think about it for a minute and you will agree. Even if GM hires non-union members it would be only a short time before the union was back in the plants as strong as ever. It is just ingrained in the company and the workers. They don’t know anything else and they don’t know how to work together in any other environment. IMO.


  53. 53
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (10:10 am)

    #47 N Riley Says: No UAW control of the auto companies means millions of dollars of lost campaign money to the democrat party
    ————————————————————————————–
    The UAW has made many contributions to the democratic party, but remember that most of Obama’s campaign money didn’t come from the democratic party. It came from millions of small donations over the internet. So Obama doesn’t really owe the UAW that much.

    Also remember that Obama has consistently surprised and angered many liberals. This goes all the way back to 1990 when he was president of the Harvard Law Review.

    In December 2008, remember that Obama had some pretty tough talk about reorganizing GM and Chrysler, which didn’t really align with Democrats in Congress.

    March 31st is the showdown. 24 days to go. I think it’s safe to say there will be surprises for everyone.


  54. 54
    Dave G

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (10:24 am)

    #47 N Riley Says: We all know this is just a PR stunt. These guys getting a ride in a Volt mule or prototype before Lyle is another slap in our face.
    ————————————————————————————–
    I believe GM considers Lyle as part of the press. Favorable press to be sure, but in the press group. If GM gives a test drive to Lyle, then others in the press may get insulted that they were not offered a test drive.

    For some reason, GM is not offering Volt mule test drives to the press in general. I’m not sure why that is. The fact that they gave a test drive to Chris Paine likely means the mules are testing very well. Also, most of the GM execs that have taken a test drive seem to have been won over. Even after you decipher the corporate speak, all impressions seem quite positive.

    Perhaps they don’t want too much press yet since that could potentially hurt current GM sales.


  55. 55
    Jason M. Hendler

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (10:48 am)

    It sounds as though GM will get these near term loans. I can’t imagine that this subsequent amount is that great on the scale the feds are accepting in the finance industry.

    I am amazed at how the Chevy Volt is the focus of so much of GM’s future. It was strategic for GM and energy independence. Now it’s also strategic politically and economically beyond GM.


  56. 56
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:04 am)

    People should please stop calling them loans. They are bailouts. When GM finally does file chapter 11, all these billions will likely be taken off the books. Thus screwing the taxpayers.

    NMCB
    No more corporate bailouts


  57. 57
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:06 am)

    #51 DonC and #53 & 54 DonG

    Good points, all. I guess some of what I said comes from being a little bit frustrated with the whole business. This has been a long drawn out process (the Volt) and we are many months away from seeing the results. I don’t see an easy solution to GM’s problem, for the government or for GM. It is going to be a very painful process any way it goes.


  58. 58
    CaptJackSparrow

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:11 am)

    Blah Blah Blah….
    Yak Yak Yak…

    Just build my Volt Dangit!!!

    No Power Windows
    No Power Adjust Seats
    No Power Side view mirrors
    No Power Sunroof (Actually No Sunroof at all)
    No Power Door Locks
    No Power Trunk lock
    No Radio (Remember that fiasco? – Get an iPod)
    No Heated Seats
    No OnStar!!!

    Make the garbage I listed as an “Upgrade” for those who want these creature comforts.

    Standard Features:
    AC
    Heater
    Defogger Front/Rear

    Back to Basics Boys!

    I’ll take my Volt with No Generator, No ICE, ShAkEn not StirreD…


  59. 59
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:17 am)

    I can guarantee you that if GM goes Capter anything, the UAW will STILL be leaching on GM. The Govt will not allow them to be removed.

    Now quit posting cars and boasting about them when they are just “Concept” cars not in production already. Geesh….

    Ig GM goes Chapter anything, I’ll still buy a Volt. If they go under after, I will at least have a Volt. I can fix all the Electricals and electronics myself. I can hire a mechanic for the infrequently used ICE.


  60. 60
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:26 am)

    #39 Steve K:

    “What a great day for the greatest country in the world.”

    No s**t!

    We are all circling the drain of the lowest common denominator of “globalization”. Get ready for it.

    This is all too depressing for me. Have a great day.


  61. 61
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:29 am)

    @noel park 60
    “This is all too depressing for me. Have a great day.”

    noel, don’t go away. Stay and hang out. Misery loves company. Have a beer?


  62. 62
    George K

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:30 am)

    “The Task Force is led by by Wall Street financier Steven Rattner and Steelworkers union official Ron Bloom…”.

    Don’t know about Steven Rattner, but I’m sure union official Ron Bloom will be unbiased regarding more bailout money??! (for the union)

    Ljsc11agtvwotg
    Lets just start ch11 and get the volts wheels on the ground.

    =D~~~~


  63. 63
    KUD

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:31 am)

    Hey Task Force if you like the Volt after Driving it …… No jumping line :)


  64. 64
    The Grump

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:31 am)

    Dave G – This whole thing is a huge game of “chicken” for everyone involved with GM – UAW, retirees, shareholders, dealers, suppliers, and don’t forget the GM executives, too. They have all formed armed camps, and none of them will give an inch, as they are afraid of being taken advantage of. They may be right.

    BUT – if no solution is found, and GM continues to sink, the next stop is Chapter 7. And who’s to say that Wagner isn’t petty and mean enough to let it happen ? Chapter 11 (Reorganization) would mean Wagner would be out of the big decision-making loop. Wagner’s ego is too big to let that happen.

    We can’t keep bailing out GM – the taxpayers won’t stand for it, and will certainly make their feelings known to their Congresspersons. And Chapter 7 (Liquidation) is what we MUST avoid. I doubt Obama can smooth-talk all the involved parties into a 40% concession across the board. That leaves us with Chapter 11 as the only reasonable way for GM to avoid the financial disaster of Chapter 7.

    And about the “stigma” of bankruptcy – many people are already afraid to buy GM now. How good is a car warranty issued by a car company that went out of business a year after you bought the car ? GM is just one failed bailout away from Chapter 7 liquidation. That’s enough to scare me out of a GM car.


  65. 65
    john1701a

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:34 am)

    I am amazed at how the Chevy Volt is the focus of so much of GM’s future.
    ___________________________

    To put it bluntly, that’s because it is all they have left. The plan had been to offer a wide array of new technologies. But as each came to market, they were revealed to be over-promised & under-delivered.

    Since Volt is still in the prototype phase, it doesn’t have to be held accountable yet. In fact, there’s still an opportunity to alter the design/configuration.


  66. 66
    D.

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:44 am)

    captain jack – i believe the uaw has already made concession, will make more the keep their jobs in these desperate times brought on by the kleptocrats. And they are hardly parasitic. Rather, the salt- of- the- earth. Unions gave us the middle class. US is nothing without organized labor.

    prediction -Obama Good government should/will give GM the 16-18 bucks, with strings-phase out gas-guzzlers, bring on the Ev, light-rail, heavy-rail, mass-transportation, to carry them through 2009, more thereafter if needed to save the US industrial base…thanks

    btw,for a good read! – Smart is the New Stupid by David Michael Green – http://counterpunch.org/green03062009.html…thanks


  67. 67
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:45 am)

    #61 CaptJackSparrow:

    Be careful what you ask for, you might get it!

    GM-Volt bloggers:

    It would be well worth your while to read the interview with Warren Buffet which is currently up on the Yahoo news pages. It took me a few minutes to get by the headline and actually look at the thing, but it is very positive, in a very understated way, once you get into it.

    And it applies directly in many ways to many of the discussions which have gone on here recently. Especially today’s, which really did inspire me to take the day off. After seeing Buffets’s remarks, I had to come back and see if anybody could get interested, and stumbled upon CaptJack’s kind words.

    Don’t get me wrong, I read every comment every day. I’m not going anywhere until the last shoe drops. It’s just that some days it gets too political, even for me.


  68. 68
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:55 am)

    Window dressing. GM will get its loan money, in due course. That cat is already out of the bag.

    I would much rather spend some time discussing the new GM engine family that will debut with the Spark.

    GM apparently is introducing a 1.0-1.2 Liter all alloy DOHC I-4 engine family. It reportedly has DI and VVT as well. In short, a much more modern, tiny engine family than the iron block, Family 0 engines that GM is putting into the Cruze and Volt. The Family 0 engines date back to the Eighties.

    If the Flint factory is delayed from being built for the Family 0, perhaps it will be modified to build the newer, more modern. lighter, and presumeably more economical Spark/Beat engines instead?

    Are there any more details about these new engines.


  69. 69
    Jackson

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (11:59 am)

    Too depressed to leave comment

    /I don’t drink

    //maybe I should start


  70. 70
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:17 pm)

    @D. 66

    There are many bussinesses that are successfull WITHOUT the Union. Granted yes, at some point in US history the Union was good for the country. That doesn’t mean we have to keep living in the past. You will notice there is a majority Union presence in large companies. Why? Because the little folks aren’t worth it. I have seen small companies try and get a Union in house but the Union said no because it was not “Financially Feasable” for them to get involved.
    The Unions are like these Viruses for the computers. The viruses affect only the large majority of the OS’s (Microsoft) just as the Unions affect the large companies/corporations.

    I have an idea on how the Unions can survive and thrive but I am going to keep to myself.

    Done with my Union rant. I’ve been in too many Union Nego’s and don’t want my blood to boil.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:22 pm)

    @stas peterson 68
    “Are there any more details about these new engines.”

    On top of that, are there any ideas on the “Generator” that will be mated to the ICE on the Volt? I am still very interested in the Generator.

    Back to my Kahlua & Coffee……


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:33 pm)

    51 Don C.

    Boy have you eaten the DEMOgogues lotus. When her majesty became House Speaker she demanded a private jet to fly her back and forth to San Francisco every weekend. The previous speaker didn’t have a dedicated government furnished, and paid for Jet for his use, nor did any of his predecessors.

    So the government offered her a Gulfstream V. That is what the richest men in the world pay for and fly.

    Was she happy?

    No! She threw a temper tantrum and said if the president has a Boeing 47 than she as the NUMBER # 3 (doofus!) in line by act of Congress deserved one too.

    So they offered her a Boeing 737 jet liner that seats over a hundred people instead, suitably redecorated naturally at taxpayer’s expense, Which she grudgingly accepted.

    Why in God’s; name does that fat silly bi!ch deserve a government supplied private jet liner to fly her here there and nowhere?
    And how possibly did the long line of House Speakers ever manage to get along without one?

    Has she accomplished anything ? Not that I can see. Has she even passed a government budget with an 2/3 majority for this year ? No. Has she even passed a government budget for LAST year, six months into the budget ? No!

    If anything, the only thing she has done is award non-competitive government contracts to her husband’s company.

    That used to be against the Law. but its nothing,not even a peccadillo, in the Chicago mobster’s administration, and not even worth investigating.


  73. 73
    RB

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:34 pm)

    #51 DonC says “Somehow I think the millions of jobs at issue are a bigger issue than the test drive in the Volt”
    ————————————————————-

    GM is important as a company and as a symbol, but there are not “millions of jobs at issue.” That is a considerable exaggeration.


  74. 74
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:35 pm)

    The last few day’s postings have been like the stillness before a storm. Once the storm arrives we will find out what kind of damages are going to be incurred.

    How are you going to find any real interesting posts to make, Lyle, that can stir the heart and soul and not scare the heart and soul? I am ready for some positive posts. Are there any of those coming up, I wonder?


  75. 75
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:38 pm)

    #68 stas peterson:

    That’s what II’m talking about! So much the better. Bring it on.

    They already have a Vauxhall model in the UK which uses the existing I-3, 1.0-1.2 liter engine, originally slated for the Volt. It gets something like 56 mpg. I would buy one in a minute.

    My sense is that the engine you are talking about is new and distinct from the above. If so, imagine the mileage they could get out of a Spark, especially if they can keep the weight under control.

    If they can get it here before the next gas price spike, they will sell a lot of them. If it got that kind of mileage, I would buy one right now to replace my S-10. As it is, I just can’t make myself buy a 30 mpg Aveo or Cobalt to replace my 25 mpg handy truck.


  76. 76
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:41 pm)

    #72 stas peterson:

    I too would rather discuss new engines. When it comes to politics, sayonara.


  77. 77
    Guy Incognito

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:45 pm)

    #77 Guy Incognito Says:
    =D~~~~~~~Kudos & honorable mention to AP & Bloomberg for giving the Volt national attention


  78. 78
    Dave G

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:48 pm)

    #64 The Grump,

    All good points.

    March 31st is the drop dead date. I’m betting there will be surprises for everyone…


  79. 79
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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:50 pm)

    I still think they should first/expedite the sell of a Volt without the genset then introduce the Volt with a genset and/or offer an upgrade for the genset. If the researched target customers only needed 40 miles AER, then they should at least get half of them to buy.a 100% BEV.

    I know I would buy one but for no more than $30K


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:50 pm)

    I would hope GM does get new engine technology into all their smaller cars to up the mileage. It would be a great shame if they produced highly efficient engines for Europe and Asia and did not bring them to the U.S. and Canadian markets. But they have done that in the past. So, what would prevent them from doing it now. It would be noticed by some people, some here on this site, but would it really make any difference to GM. I hope the “new” GM would be a better global company than in the past.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:52 pm)

    #78 Dave G

    “March 31st is the drop dead date. I’m betting there will be surprises for everyone…”
    —————-

    Do you care to mention some of those surprises, if you know of any? Just wondering.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (12:58 pm)

    #76 Noel Park

    “I too would rather discuss new engines. When it comes to politics, sayonara.”
    —————————-

    Although I do dip too much into politics, I too would rather talk about cars and non-political things. I get “sucked” into commenting on a political subject when I just know it would be better to keep my fingers off the keyboard. I wish more of us could refrain from the political discussion. It is hard not to comment on some subjects when you feel things are not “right” leaving things unsaid. But, that is the way it gets started, doesn’t it?

    Boy, am I ready for the Cruze, the Beat and the Volt. Any one know much about the auto show going on in Geneva?


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    Timaaayyy!!!

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (1:18 pm)

    Government, “GM, we’re going to keep helping you, but you need to give us something to make us and you look like heroes.”

    GM, “We’ll take this concept car we’ve had lying around here, build it with Madoff’s billions, market it with Stanford Financial’s laid-off salesforce, and warranty it with AIG, then go on Dancing With The Stars and mambo our way into America’s heart.”

    Government, “Good ’nuff. Who shall we make the blank check out to?”


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (1:34 pm)

    #72 stas peterson

    I have no idea why Nancy Pelosi gets injected into this discussion, but if her use of an airplane is important, at least let’s stick to fact instead of fiction.

    Basically she has to fly in a secure plane. For years Gingrich and Hastert flew in a C-20. That worked fine for them because they lived in Atlanta and Chicago which are well within the plane’s range. Peolsi lives in San Franciso, which can be outside the plane’s range. So, either because of security concerns or because she didn’t want to spend her life refueling, she asked for a plane with a longer range. Unless you are intent on making something out of nothing this simply can’t be a deal, much less a big deal.

    If you want to get a very full review of the actual facts rather than the fictionalized account you seem to have been exposed to, you can find it here, on a site which is devoted to confirming or debunking the various myths that pop up on the internet:

    http://www.snopes.com/politics/pelosi/jet.asp


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (1:39 pm)

    Pheew, this has all been too frustrating for me, makes me want to run to the hills.

    NO PLUG, NO SALE. (my house)=D~~~~~~~~~~~~(my volt) LJGTVWOTR


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (1:45 pm)

    Just say a news item that claims GM has concluded that bankru[tcy is the way to go. Apparently their fear that bankruptcy “would severely damage auto sales” is a raather moot point, since GM sales have fallen off a cliff already.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (1:49 pm)

    the Prototype Volts are done. What we are waiting on is the production Volt, when all the production version pieces are put together for the first time.

    FYI – i was working with a GM CCRW engineer today on a Hamtramck project. He was telling me how busy all the engineers are doing the designs for the Volt line @ Ham. Good to hear progress is being made.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (1:55 pm)

    #82 N Riley:

    Well I am just as guilty as anybody. Clearly, the future of GM, and the Volt, are inextricably linked to politics and finance, and a lot of this stuff is important and appropriate. It’s just that the partisanship and political rhetoric get to be a bit too much sometimes.

    If you have a chance to check out Mr. Buffet’s interview, it’s would be worth your time, IMHO. He basically says that the current unpleasantness is bound to end eventually, and that it is time to stop with the political infighting and unite to fix the country. Amen.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (1:56 pm)

    #87 k-dawg:

    Good news! Thanks. We can use all we can get!


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (1:57 pm)

    If I understand the terminology, a complete prototype does not exist yet. Integration prototypes are being tested without the Volt bodies. The first Volt bodies will then be mated to the Volt chassis to create validation ready prototypes…Have they said how much of this will be done with Hamtramck tooling and how much would manually built until the Hamtramck Volt line is fully up?


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (3:00 pm)

    McCain is an idiot and his statement shows why he lost. Chapter 11 is the worst thing GM could do, not the best. Anybody knows (except McCain and other GOP idiots) that people do not and will not buy from a company in Chapter 11. It’s not like the airlines where your investment is small and only lasts a couple of hours. A car company is completely different, it’s a large long term investment. All of the people on here that say Chapter 11 is the answer have no idea of what they are talking about. They have no concept of Chapter 11 will mean for GM. They just keep talking about the UAW. All of the suppliers will get hurt, all of the stockholders will get hurt, not to mention our country. They just have no idea, they join the ranks of McCain, IDIOTS.

    I also thought it was interesting, not to mention wrong how the big 3 got grilled by congress and the banks were handed over $300B without even one question.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (3:11 pm)

    @Frank B 91
    ” also thought it was interesting, not to mention wrong how the big 3 got grilled by congress and the banks were handed over $300B without even one question.”

    To beat a dead horse. The banks got a “Handout”, “Freebie”, “Get out of jail free”, the Big 2.4 are getting “Loans”, at least that’s the theory. Loans of which are not supposed to be getting paid back till 5yrs after they recieve them.

    Which again begs the question, if the big 2.39 get the “Loans” and they file Chap whatever, what happens to the first round of loans they burned through? Even worse, if they totally fail, what happens to the “Loans” they owe on?

    Something to think about and say “hmmmmm….”

    If they go Chap whatever, I’ll still buy the Volt.
    I’ll take my Volt with No Generator, No ICE, ShAkEn not StirreD…


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (3:25 pm)

    @92 CaptJackSparrow….

    Can we focus on the car industry rather than keep saying why we can’t and others can, we can never solve problem with this attitude…everybody dun want to have concession

    GM has big problem….talk to the guys on the street…they are angry…..!!!! think about taxpayers, their bloody money got to support some non-profitable business

    Even you can print money, you don’t bailout a company cannot make gross profit….

    Ch11 is the only choice….restructure and put Volt in some strong company, who have insight, ability to control cost, “get it done personality”….


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (3:33 pm)

    @GM-fan 93
    “Can we focus on the car industry rather than keep saying why we can’t and others can, we can never solve problem with this attitude…everybody dun want to have concession”

    WTF?
    I don’t getit?


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (3:34 pm)

    Jack @ 94

    That’s OK…I don’t get either.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (3:37 pm)

    @94, 95

    We should not just say banks can get bailout, but GM can’t….

    Car industry have it own problem….

    get it….


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (3:40 pm)

    #93 GM-fan

    Even if the “guys on the street” are angry, so what? Do you really think congress or the administration is going to pay a lot of attention to them? I think not. Until there is a tremendous ground swell, congress and the administration is going to keep tearing down and rebuilding our society through economic change. I just don’t sense enough anger from any one yet to forestall their plans. Maybe if it reaches the level of a taxpayer revolt where hundreds of thousands or possibly millions of taxpayers refuse to pay their taxes, then congress and the administration would stop and rethink things.

    Remember, Obama, Clinton and the democrat leaders in congress agree on one thing. That is that if you want to effect long term solutions, you have to do it fast and do during a time of turmoil so that people will buy into it thinking it is the “solution” to restoring our economy. I think the “fix” is in.

    Edited: See, Noel. I couldn’t resist making this comment. While commenting on what is happening, in my opinion, to our economy and society should not be considered political, I guess it could be since only one party is in control of the destiny of our country. And that may be a slippery slope to a “new” America. Good or Bad?


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (3:40 pm)

    96

    I don’t think that was what was said, if fact just the opposite.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (3:44 pm)

    @GM-fan 96

    Ahhh…
    OK, thanks for the clarification. :o )

    I never said who got what, I only clarified the difference.
    Personally whatever the Big 2.38 gets is no matter to me becuase whether they get anything is not dependent on me. The Govt will decide and whatever I say is crap.
    So, whatever the Govt gives or if they go Chap whatever, just “Git er done…” and I’ll buy my Volt.

    GM, Customer waiting…..

    I’ll take my Volt with No Generator, No ICE, ShAkEn not StirreD…


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (3:50 pm)

    #93 GM-fan

    What company would you put the Volt into? Ford is the only one that would not immediately kill it. Toyota and Honda certainly would. Nissan probably would too. No, the only sure way of getting the volt into production is to insure the survival of GM. Right now, that appears difficult unless the taxpayers continue to pour in billions every month for the next year or so. Unless the auto market turns completely around, the unions drop a lot of demands for current and future wages and benefits and suppliers keep GM afloat with credit until they can start paying their bills. A lot of things to happen to forestall further government loans, grants or straight out bail-outs. I wonder how it will come out:?


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (3:59 pm)

    #97, 100 N Riley

    Isolated Volt from GM….let GM go to Ch11…that’s the only way you can make Volt running….

    Friends, Neighbours around me are angry when we talk about GM, UAW….

    We worked in a small company cannot get any bailout….why we can favour Big 3…Okay…my company can make Gross Profit last year….

    Volt is excellent, the only way to preserve it, take it away from GM….


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    ThombDbhomb

     

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    Mar 9th, 2009 (4:00 pm)

    #84 DonC

    I’m not trying to be political, I’m trying to support fact and reason. With that in mind, I say, “well done!” Snopes tries to set the record straight.

    Hopefully, #72
    1) has a reasoned, fact-based response, or
    2) is gracious enough to admit he was duped by propaganda.

    I learn a lot more from intelligent discussions.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (4:15 pm)

    #97 N Riley:

    There is no monopoly on the idea of using crisis as cover to effect change. I have mentioned “The Shock Doctrine” by Naomi Klein many times recently. Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and Bushes I and II were as adept at same as Clinton every was, or President Obama ever will be.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (4:25 pm)

    #103 Noel Park

    I totally agree with that. I know Bush II used 9/11 as a means to force Homeland Security Agency onto our backs. We spend too much (or should I say waste too much) money through this agency’s inability to properly utilize their people correctly in a manner to increase our security. We did not gain as much security from it as we did another agency devoted to wasting taxpayer money. I know George W had to do something to try to get this country’s security in order and congress (both parties) voted for the changes and new laws that came about because of 9/11. It was the biggest restructuring of our government of all time until the present restructuring that may be occurring. Sometimes the people we vote into office are more dangerous than the people we are supposed to fear.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (4:31 pm)

    But, back to the Volt. GM-fan, how do you propose we strip GM of the Volt technology? Do we get the Obama administration to jiggle the laws and rip it out of GM’s heart? Or do you propose letting a Chapter 11 or Chapter 7 judge make that decision? Who gets it? Does it become a government agency operated at taxpayer expense and use government employees to design, build and sell it?

    I am not picking on you. I just want to get some more Volt discussion going and get away from the democrats and republicans. I distrust all politicians. They are out for themselves first and foremost. Here I go discussing them again. Sorry…..


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (4:42 pm)

    @N Riley 105

    I think the core team on the Volt should be extracted and reassembled to a smaller NEW company and hire on some out of work team of ex Union workers as the mfgr staff into one of the more “retoolable” facilities of GM’s Give them another name called “Voltec” or somethin like that.
    Then they should standardize the mating of the generator to mate to more ICE/Diesel or other alternative fuel ICE to broaden the type of generator you can have. This way you can have multiple sources not the internal “Sole Sourcing”. Also standardize/improve the design of the battery and simplify the replacement as well as pickup another battery source and not just have one. Keep your sources in competition with each other because it helps keep cost going down.

    That’s just IMHO.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (4:51 pm)

    Well here is something to get us off the depressing Chapter 11, government takeover discussion:

    Vauxhall releases price on the Ampera of 20,000 pounds, or $28,000 at today’s exchange rate.

    http://www.worldcarfans.com/9090304.029/uks-vauxhall-volt-to-cost-7000-less-than-us-chevy-volt


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (5:03 pm)

    #197 BillR

    tank u 4 da r-ticle

    “We’re not sure what GM is thinking here.” Geitner’s now in charge?

    “Great Britain’s auto bailout includes a large earmark for alternative fuel vehicles. GM is angling to get some of that money…” Oh, maybe they’re crafty after all.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (5:10 pm)

    #72.

    I take offense to your language about the honorable Nancy Pelosi.

    She is not fat.

    I am kinda fat and if she is fat then I am a whale.

    As far as being a typical govt beurecrat who is drunk with power, I am with you on that.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (5:10 pm)

    #107 BillR

    Wait a second:

    http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ampera-confirmed-for-the-uk-market-4795.html

    “Official pricing for the Ampera has not been announced, as some reported, but rumors set the tag for the car at around 20,000 pounds. ”

    Can you confirm the 20k lbs?


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (5:11 pm)

    As long as the task force learns everything about the VOLT and enjoys the test drive, that can only be a good thing for GM and VOLT.

    Every day is another day closer to purchasing a VOLT and giving GM some hard earned money to: “Enjoy the future of motoring today!”


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (5:13 pm)

    Isn’t that just funny how it is expected to be less expensive there than what they can sell it to us for?

    OK, so here’s where all of you “Buy American” to support “American” jobs need to come in and explain this to me as to why, what you call an “American” company, can do this to us….

    I’ll take my Volt with No Generator, No ICE, ShAkEn not StirreD…


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (5:18 pm)

    From the link:
    http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ampera-confirmed-for-the-uk-market-4795.html

    As you all know by now, the car needs to be charged. Even if it is designed to draw its power from a 240V household outlet, it won’t do you any good if you are miles away from any house and have no socket to stick your plug into.

    Now this is the kind of shlt that scares people out of the technology. Sure it was mentioned that the ICE kicks in for additional range but you do NOT “have” to plug it in ALL THE TIME thus requiring a whole new infrastructure.

    WTF man?


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (5:22 pm)

    From Detroit Freep:
    “President Obama’s automotive task force… panel…today took a private tour today of General Motors Corp. and Chrysler facilities, traveling around Metro Detroit in a 2009 Jeep Grand Cherokee.”

    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/2008car1tablef.jsp?id=26181

    2009 Jeep Grand Cherokee = 12 mpg combined fuel economy, the worst of all SUVs of any size.

    Way to send a mixed message to Detroit and the nation, automakers. Talk about cognitive dissonance.

    Or do Detroit streets now count as rugged, extreme off-roading? Also, what were they towing, air?


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (5:35 pm)

    Many posters here don’t understand the difference between chapter 7 and chapter 11 bankruptcy – they just talk about GM being “destroyed”. Therefore, as a public service, I have provided a short description of the two bankruptcy types in this thread.
    ———————————————————————————–
    - Under a chapter 11, the debtor may seek an adjustment of debts, either by reducing the debt or by extending the time for repayment, or may seek a more comprehensive reorganization.
    ———————————————————————————–
    - A chapter 7 bankruptcy case does not involve the filing of a plan of repayment as in chapter 11. Instead, the bankruptcy trustee gathers and sells the debtor’s nonexempt assets and uses the proceeds of such assets to pay holders of claims (creditors) in accordance with the provisions of the Bankruptcy Code.
    ————————————————————————————
    #105 N Riley – GM can continue to operate under chapter 11. The big difference – Every financial report would be submitted to the bankruptcy court. GM would really be under the gun to improve their profits, but GM’s problems would be shared fairly with all their debtors – the UAW, retirees, dealers, suppliers, and the biggest villain in this sorry drama – the shareholders. They voted for Wagner, over and over, while he fiddled, and GM burned. And quite possibly, the court would allow payment to Gm’s suppliers as vital to GM’s success. The court has that ability to selectively choose who gets what, and when.


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (5:52 pm)

    I can’t open the next thread, with the video of the visit to GM. Is anyone else having the same problem?


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    Mar 9th, 2009 (5:55 pm)

    107 BillR/ #112 CaptJackSparrow

    By normal (i.e. before september 2008) exchange rates, 20,000 pounds equaled roughly 40,000 dollars. The British pound has fallen off a cliff since then, but that figure is probably based on the pound making a comeback by 2012. Since the pound hasn’t been this low in years, I don’t think that that’s an unreasonable assumption.

    Personally, I’m hoping that they’re also building economies of scale into that figure. And they’ll reduce the price for everyone by then. Including us.


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    Minnis

     

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    Aug 23rd, 2009 (12:30 am)

    great post, thanks for providing so much. Keep up the good posts.! http://www.hoover-f5914900.com