The President’s Task Force on Autos is poring over thee restructuring plans submitted by GM and Chrysler. With GM’s auditors recently declaring there is a risk GM cannot proceed as a going concern without restructuring, and with share prices reaching as low as $1.27 ON Friday, this month of March is very critical indeed. GM has indicated it needs $2 billion in loans by month’s end and $16.6 billion through 2010 to survive.
President Obama created this Task Force in lieu of an auto czar to oversee the restructuring and to determine if GM is viable enough to keep the $13.4 billion in loans already received. This decision it to be made on or by March 31st.
On Monday the Task Force will be visiting GM officials in Detroit. It is reported that GM will be giving the team a close-up and detailed view of and briefing on the Chevrolet Volt.
Obama’s press secretary Robert Gibbs said “the team is looking through those plans and figuring out how to be the best partner in what’s next for the auto industry.” and “whether the auto industry as we have it now is exactly what we have in a year is something I think is going to be determined by a lot of different factors.”
Our little Chevy Volt has a lot of convincing to do.
Source (Detroit Press)
This entry was posted on Saturday, March 7th, 2009 at 9:58 am and is filed under Financial, Politics. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Mar 7th, 2009 (10:02 am)I’m happy that Obama is on the side of GM.
GO GM
GO VOLT
Thank you Rick Wagoner and company for your courage.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (10:06 am)Around here they are known as the “Impossible Mission Force”.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (10:19 am)I hope GM is honest with Obama people on the chance of the PHEV success. My understanding is the Chevy Volt is extremely risky and the battery likely to last much shorter than 10 years under normal driving condition, if so, GM is not acting in good faith if they claim to bring it to market in Oct, 2010. I certainly hope GM does NOT use it solely as a bargaining tool to get PR and tax payer’s money. At the same time, GM should also expect the devastating backlash against it should they fail to deliver, not to mention that even people at GM had serious doubt about the battery life.
Everyone in this country should support any honest endeavor to use less oil and be more self-sufficient. If GM eventually fail to deliver due to battery problem (My understanding is that is highly likely), there should be an investigation by the government on GM and its management and why GM insists they could deliver in 2010 even their scientists had doubt.
To those Chevy Volt fans: Supporting green technology should NOT be equivalent to support GM or anyone without critic eyes. Fans should also understand that there is NO technology in the near future (before 2020) to supports oil-free transportation, green technology can only reduce our dependence on Mideast and Obama should be prepared to act militarily should Iran go nuclear.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (10:19 am)One can only hope. My Volt is still only a dream. Fight the good fight.
Take Care,
TED
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Mar 7th, 2009 (10:33 am)#3, good point. I agree. I would add, we should drill on our soil as much as we can, as soon as we can, so that we can stop funding Hugo Chavez and Iran for their oppresive political goals.
Go Volt and the tech in the Volt!
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Mar 7th, 2009 (10:34 am)Re #3 above:
GM nogood says “My understanding is the Chevy Volt is extremely risky and the battery likely to last much shorter than 10 years under normal driving condition”
So where do you get your “understanding?” What is your source? Or is battery failure your HOPE, and you are trying to get people to believe you have some sort of “inside” information the rest of us don’t have.
Every credible item I have ever read on the battery development on the Volt is that the batteries are performing amazingly well. In fact it is one of the problems that seems to totally licked.
Keep up the good work GM!
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Mar 7th, 2009 (10:36 am)POst #3 “There is no technology that supports oil free transportation”?
You are forgetting
Nat Gas ,already in service
ANd if people can convert their own car to electric in their backyard garages i would say its proven technology.
Don,t forget Tesla.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (10:45 am)#3, #5, #7,
Run out of everything first. What a brilliant plan.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (10:48 am)“Our little Chevy Volt has a lot of convincing to do.”
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Any “convincing” should be done with real world numbers verified in independent testing.
Top of the list:
1. Avg mpg after “customer depletion” of battery”
2. Successive acceleration performances after “customer depletion.
3. Sustained driving at highway speeds up reasonable grades or into stiff winds after customer depletion.
4. Real world AER in less than optimum temperature conditions. (i.e. 10 deg F to 110 deg F ambient)
5. Testimony from outside battery experts on what kind of battery life can reasonably be expected.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (10:49 am)#3 GM Nogood says:
“I hope GM is honest with Obama people on the chance of the PHEV success. My understanding is the Chevy Volt is extremely risky and the battery likely to last much shorter than 10 years under normal driving condition, if so, GM is not acting in good faith if they claim to bring it to market in Oct, 2010. I certainly hope GM does NOT use it solely as a bargaining tool to get PR and tax payer’s money. At the same time, GM should also expect the devastating backlash against it should they fail to deliver, not to mention that even people at GM had serious doubt about the battery life.”
You do make some valid points here, GM Nogood. But you need to know some correct facts here. The fact that some executives have doubts about the battery life is a moot point. Honestly, they are NOT battery guys. They cannot seriouly know about the battery life like a battery guy; their fear is more in the lines of general fear from the public. And where the heck did you read that the battery will not even last 10 years under normal driving conditions? That’s a false piece of information. If you read the latest blogs, you’ll see that they are supposed to last UPTO 15 years. Mind you, we do need to be skeptical and need to take this with a grain of salt. Honestly, for an guy like me who drives a bit aggressive, I think the battery should last pretty close to 10 years. Besides, if it fails, they’ll swap in a new one (assuming GM is still here of course.)
You know, as a taxpayer, we see all these crappy things that gov’t wastes our money on. One example is, instead of expensive flights all year around, they can have a limited number of flights per year per person, and do the rest of their meetings with video-conferencing. I’m sure it’ll fill the whole site if we start listing all OUR money the government wastes. My point is, energy independence is worth spending for. Climate change is worth spending fighting (I’m not a greenie…just a father of two children, who wants the same nature I grew up with to be there for my kids). If United States is ready to lead once more in face of oppositions, we have to cut off the money supply to oil-lugging terrorist nations (I KNOW Canada is US’s best friend, but the whole point is to make the entire world wean off oil). We have to have the latest and most advance technology in place to lead or we WILL fall behind Japan or even China. Back when racism was everywhere, people commented derisively ‘monkey see, monkey do,’ when Japanese copied the western nations’ techs and even designs. Well, look at the present situation.They FIRST produced cars like Prius, not us. They make the world’s best electronics; not us. Even up-starts like China are going gung-ho in being on the leading edge of technology. Look at BYD cars and some other cars they also launched that are electric. We could not even keep up with (until very recently) ASIAN conventional gasoline cars in quality and efficiency.
For crying out loud guys! WAKE UP! The Japanese were wondering (at least to some degree) whether they woke up a slumbering giant (or was it sleeping tiger?) when they attacked Pearl Harbor. It’s time for U.S. to lead again indeed; awake & lead, or stay asleep & be forgotten as a nation of has-beens.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (10:49 am)Everyone knows that electric cars are the way of the future. A Canadian just drove a solar powered car from Canada to LA. It is clearly just a technical gimick at this point, but I believe that it is an indication of the future – far future, but real future. I don’t believe that Obama is going to let GM fail. there are too many collateral jobs at stake. If he can find umpteen billions for the banks and health care, he can find a few more for GM. Remember, there is no problem he can’t solve if he throws enough of our monaey at it.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (11:06 am)Well…this is primarily a PR move. What else could they be going to Detroit to discuss? All the ‘power players’ just met for a couple days last week in the same room, this is a fractional group for both sides, comparatively speaking.
Look for lots of new photo opportunities of the ‘Obama team’ with the Volt/ENVI/Ford ‘whatever’…basically all the stuff that in no way help any of the ‘Big 2.451′ in the short term. (Is anyone really sure at all what Ford is doing with EVs or their lineup? I know I confuses me all the time…seems like it is always morphing/changing.
On the bright side:
While we are unlikely to get anything new on the Volt, except maybe some more photos and a promo vid (because as far as I can tell everything, everywhere at GM has stopped since they had their board meeting just before Q3 dropped in mid-november), we could get some more info from Ford and maybe Chrysler’s decision on which if the 27 electric concept cars they intend to produce in the most magical of years…2010.
/might be a good week after all…been a long time since we have had anything new to discuss about actual EVs
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Side note: For those following the ‘market,’ it might be a good week there also. On thursday we have the House financial services committee’s meeting on putting the mark-to-market rules on ‘hiatus’…which could stop a whole slew of problems, mostly the continuing/never ending destabilization of the financials (because they have to keep taking huge writedowns to bring their assets to ‘current value,’ which may in fact not be their true value outside of this recession…kind of a catch 22 thing happening).
Such a decision to suspend the accounting rules for a time could (and probably will) send all the financials significantly higher (like high double digits) instantly.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (11:06 am)Thank you Rick Wagoner and company for your courage.
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I don’t think Rick Wagoner and company has done as any favors.
They do need to step up to the plate and be much better.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (11:13 am)GM Nogood may be on to something, As I seem to remember a few month ago one of Japans big three said that this type of battery was no good. And for all that is holy, we can not even consider one of them to be wrong or [forgive me for saying this] trying to put out misinformation because that company is late to the game.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (11:50 am)“I would add, we should drill on our soil as much as we can, as soon as we can, so that we can stop funding Hugo Chavez and Iran for their oppresive political goals.”
The majority of our oil comes from our friends in Canada and Mexico. Not exactly “oppressive” goverments there. I agree that we should replace the oil that does come from the mideast and south america, but they aren’t our largest imports.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (12:01 pm)If GM guarantees the Battery for 10 years (and they are around for that long) who cares how long it lasts. My Pocket book says I don’t pay for the replacement the second Battery life is added to the first. If I was Toyota I would not be to positive on the Volt, with all the Money spend on the Prius. And if Ev’s catch on there will be a whole lot of innovation in Battery tech happening. Look at cell Phones. I remember my first Car mount as well as that big bag I used to carry around. My portable IBM 80 weight more then my Luggage. Now Laptops and Cell phones weigh nothing comparably speaking.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (12:10 pm)Thank GOD!!!
Obama finally do something for GM…..
Just stop GM cheat tax payer money anymore, GM even can’t sell cars to make gross profit (turnover – cost of good)….
Volt is a good concept, but realistically, I don’t see it profitable in next 3 years….not even mention to turn GM around.
GM need to bankrupt and restructure, isolated Volt from the failure management/UAW…
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Mar 7th, 2009 (12:12 pm)#13 Rashiid Amul
“Thank you Rick Wagoner and company for your courage.
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I don’t think Rick Wagoner and company has done as any favors.
They do need to step up to the plate and be much better.”
- – - – - – - – - – - – -
I said the same thing as I read out loud that part of the post to my wife.
It’s time for the HARD choices, which haven’t been done so far. And I don’t mean cut the Volt program. Let’s talk, can’t afford the union; lets talk chapter something; lets talk 8.5 million in sales, not 10 or 12 domestically as was used; lets talk Chrysler merger, taking the mini-van period; lets talk 3 or 4 brands; lets talk profits.
By the way, Rashiid you should check your messages in Lyle’s forum.
=D~~~~
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Mar 7th, 2009 (12:17 pm)#15 Steven
There will be a new BIG oil BOOM soon. Nobody is talking about it but it is there. Look up Williston Basin. It could be much larger than the entire Middle East.
Take Care
Arch
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Mar 7th, 2009 (12:18 pm)#8 Charlie H:
Thank you!
#12 statik:
You talked yourself into being positive at the end, LOL. I love it. Be careful though. Remember your hard won image.
#13 Rashiid Amul:
You are a generous man, my friend.
GM-Volt.com Bloggers & Dr. Dennis:
In his commentary this morning Daniel Schorr was talking about being introduced to Twitter. He said some words to the efffect of, “I am amazed to learn how it is possible to create a community of friends through cyber space. I am really impressed.”
Sort of echoing the words of Jean-Charles Jacquemin.
I can’t imagine a better example than GM-Volt.com. For about the 100th time, well done to all. Blog On!
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Mar 7th, 2009 (12:21 pm)#11 ROBERT M. SPERRY
You said. “Everyone knows that electric cars are the way of the future.”
No. Electric is the present. The past is gas.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (12:30 pm)Carcus1 @ 9, great post. Lyle should get these answered if he is given the opportunity to evaluate the Volt’s actual on road performance.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (12:50 pm)#12, Statik.
I agree. All this “GM is going down” shit is getting old and depressing (lol).
I started coming here to see the technology and competition on the EV front, not to learn as much as I could on GM’s financial situation and how it’s progressing.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (1:08 pm)Statik that is great news about Mark to Market, it would really slow the losses and possibly, allow something of a return to normality. Are they going to repeal FAS 157, even temporarily? You would think they would look at the results and toss it permanently.
Most of the oil will be coming out of the Bakken Formation which is a part of the Williston Basin, but it won’t be cheap to get at since they will be forced to use slant drilling techniques.
Arch, I think it should be called the Sidney basin, Montana is a much more happening place than North Dakota.
As a free market disciple, it is hard to say this, but $16B to tide GM over til 2010 might be an intelligent move. Which means Geithner will probably not support it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bakken_Formation
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Mar 7th, 2009 (1:11 pm)With all this talk about battery life… even if a Volt’s worn out battery can’t hold a full charge, I imagine that the car would still be drivable.
I’m pretty sure that most current hybrids are designed to still be able to be driven around with a malfunctioning battery, although with worse fuel economy. I’m pretty sure that engineers have included fail safes, although there were bugs in the software for the the 2004-2005 era Priuses that caused the car to stall when going down the road between 35 and 65 miles per hour. Yikes!
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Mar 7th, 2009 (1:21 pm)Now that its getting slighty warmer in Michigan (hit 60 yesterday), I’d like an update on the production Volt. GM did say “when it got warmer” they’d be putting the production pieces together. Maybe the Task Force can get us an update.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (1:28 pm)Zach. If G.M. does go down you can forget about an E-REV for many years. Even if an investor came in and bought all the technology for the Volt, they couldn’t produce it nearly as quickly as G.M. could if they were to survive.
First, the price the ‘new startup’ company would have to charge needs to be high enough to make a profit from day one. Nobody could afford it. I don’t anticipate a large, non car company, (IBM, GE, Microsoft) trying to get into the car business. These are the only size companies that would be willing to sell the car at a loss to develop the technology, and the only companies that might be able to fund it without private capitol. If a foreign entity tried to buy up those assets, (Volt technology), it would be better for the government who now essentially owns G.M., to box it up and store it away, just like the last scene in ‘Raiders Of The Lost Ark’. It could then sell the technology to an AMERICAN company when the economy improves.
This is the ONLY automotive technology where American companies are ahead of the curve, and only by maybe 3 or 4 years. I think it is worth guarding and protecting. I know it is not a state secret and yes, many other companies are working on it. But G.M. has the technology FULLY developed. I doubt even the Toyota’s of the world are even close.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (1:34 pm)statik,
Ford keeps “partnering” with 3rd party conversion companies, and selling other EV manufacturers’ products through Ford dealerships. I believe, at this point, Ford can only sit back, see who is succeeding, and buy them – Tesla, Fisker, Aptera, etc.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (1:37 pm)I would love hear from somebody here exactly how the magical Chapter 11 fairy is going to wave a wand and in a poof of golden Wall Street dust all will be profitable and right with the world. I tend to lean towards agreeing with GM’s position, that while Chapter 11 may be unavoidable at this point, I don’t see it as anything other than a stepping stone to Chapter 7. Anybody like to help me understand otherwise?
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Mar 7th, 2009 (1:37 pm)I want to see the Volt on the streets of America and the whole world in a couple of years. Make it happen … one way or another. This Volt program has GOT to be successful or we might really be hurting when oil prices go sky high again. It’s a matter of national security. No joke.
Get ‘er done GM! Blow everyone’s minds in 2011 when the Volt starts showing up at dealerships.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (1:39 pm)#12 statik said “..House financial services committee’s meeting on putting the mark-to-market rules on ‘hiatus’…”
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We can replace mark-to-market with mark-to-imagination.
Then everything will be immediately wonderful, in our imagination, as long as there are no transactions, and as long as we really don’t try to withdraw any money.
For example, my 1990 car, which with mark-to-market might be worth $400, will be instantly worth $25,000 as a classic car. That is its historical value, and payments all are right on time. Maybe I can take my title to the bank and borrow maybe $24,000 against it.
Well I would like for it to be so, just like the banks.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (1:42 pm)#28 Jason Hendler-
“I believe, at this point, Ford can only sit back, see who is succeeding, and buy them – Tesla, Fisker, Aptera, etc.”
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Have you seen their balance sheet? They are not in the position to buy anything now or in the near future. A partnership maybe, but I kind of doubt it.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (1:48 pm)#29 DaV8or asked I tend to lean towards agreeing with GM’s position, that while Chapter 11 may be unavoidable at this point, I don’t see it as anything other than a stepping stone to Chapter 7. Anybody like to help me understand otherwise?
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The question is whether you think that GM has a core business that can be profitable, after it defaults (in whole or part) on current loans and sheds contracts that no longer can be fulfilled (maybe to too many dealerships). If you think that is the case, then GM can be a smaller, leaner company but successful once again in that form.
I think that GM does have successful components in Chevrolet, Cadillac, and the various trucks, so I think it can be successful after a C11 reorganization.
Without it, another government $16B mentioned by ziv in #24 might tide GM over to June 2009, but is really just more money down a huge hole, absent an immediate miracle in the return of demand from the public.
There’s nothing magical in C11 but C11 is powerful, in that the court can restructure the company after following the process in the law for hearing the affected parties. Most importantly, if there is agreement by most, the remaining holdouts cannot stop the process. Outside of bankruptcy, no one has that power, so a minority of holdouts can gum up the procedure, as seems to be happening now.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (1:50 pm)The “Task Force” should recommend GM Designers come up with a “Postal Delivery Van” model and then if Obama is serious about supporting the technology, he should place an order for 60,000 units. [Prepaid up front from the bailout package.] He should also require that future Fleet Purchases for any government office (including IRS, Social Security, even FBI…) should be ‘plug-in Hybrid’ (EREV) vehicles from ANY maker, Ford and Chrysler included. He should give State and Local governments tax breaks for replacing their fleets with these too. Obama talks the talk, but I don’t see him walking the walk.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (2:10 pm)no. 10:
If that guy had many many years expertise in lithium battery, you better believe him. Also he is not a shit-talking business guy, he is a well known scientist in lithium battery.
When the battery was being charged by generator at high rate (~3.5C), that is too much for any lithium battery and severely shortens battery life.
I found most people stupid and poorly educated in terms of battery tech. Maybe you should go and test battery yourself.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (2:15 pm)Also do not believe companies like BYD either, they are cheaters. With my experiences, I can tell you that Toyota and Ford is more likely to succeed with their less advanced design (compare to GM Volt). But I have no interest seeing the Japs lead again.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (2:30 pm)Better to file bankruptcy now.
I am sure the court will dispose of the Volt assets to another auto company. Not much else to sell. Just a bunch of wasted factory space.
I can’t believe the feds are still thinking about pumping more tax payer money down this rat hole.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (2:39 pm)It is clear that Obama is the only one that can save GM.
If GM doesn’t say and do the right things next week than Obama should cut them off at the knees. Our man Obama does not mess around. He has absolutely no tolerance for poor management.
GM needs to get its house in order quickly or face the absolute power of Obama. You do not want to make this man angry.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (2:46 pm)Ah, nice to see the Marxist trolls have taken the bait. To all else, the first quality mass marketed PHEV cannot help but be a total, unqualified success! The GM Team led by Rick and Bob Lutz have done everything demanded of them to meet the requirement to lead electrification of transport.
This site is a good place to keep abreast of technical developments which Lyle and GM have been bringing to us with good transparency. Thanks VOLT team. Your work IS making the world a better place. The trolls and naysayers are just unhappy it will not come from North Korea, China or Burma.
ONWARD GM, VOLT and AMPERA!!
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Mar 7th, 2009 (3:34 pm)I hope we can get from here to where we want to be wisely, with as little pain as possible. Where do we want to be?
1) in fuel efficient cars that meet our needs for power, comfort, utility, and low emissions.
2) In a prosperous nation.
The transition won’t be easy. Hard choices must be made. I wish our leaders luck. Some of you seem to have all the answers. You should be president.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (3:45 pm)As soon as GM gets their next checks (loan/bailout/welfare/who cares what they call them), stop all this talking and get to work on the Volt assembly plant………..
If cars are going to start rolling off the line in time for a Nov, 2010 launch, they better get moving, don’t you think????
Less than 20 months, and the clock is ticking!
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Mar 7th, 2009 (3:47 pm)#38 Obamanation
“the absolute power of Obama” ?
Maybe Rush is right. He is the Messiah.
Of course, I won’t believe it until he walks across my swimming pool.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (3:48 pm)(Or saves GM and the VOLT.)
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Mar 7th, 2009 (3:49 pm)That would be a miracle.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (4:22 pm)I think we should all acknowledge the courage of Rick Wagoner to take all the brickbats he’s been subjected to lately.
I mean the guy could have given this up long ago and retired, or gone somewhere else, but instead he’s loyal to the company, even though he only gets one buck a year salary and no bonuses.
As we all know from reading the news these days there are scores of CEO’s who are just greedy bastards who think of nothing but themselves, their ski mansions, their trophy wives, and their art collections. This Rick Wagoner guy, in contrast, seems to have some values. To me, he is a true American hero. That’s how I see it anyway.
Sure, he’s probably a multi-millionaire because he’s been around so long and gotten paid well, but that’s just it – he COULD easily leave and be comfortable the rest of his life, but instead he has chosen to take the high road and stick with GM through the most depressing situation imaginable. He must know he’s done a lot of boneheaded things during his time at the helm, and now – instead of getting out – he’s trying to take responsibilty for fixing the mess. For that I think he is a noble man.
I know there are some of you who are going to go ballistic over these comments and you are entitled to do that. I just think we need some perspective and balance here.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (4:23 pm)#35 GM Isgood – If you define A123 as a “lithium battery,” then they will easily support a 4C charge rate without breaking a sweat. Actually, something like 8C does not even “severely damage” A123’s M1 chemistry. 4C basically qualifies as “normal use” for their M1 cells. Naturally, higher charge rates will reduce cycle life, and it is good to minimize charge rates. But if A123 can be so stable, I like to think that LG’s pack that made it into the Volt is similarly capable.
#40 ThombDbhomb – “The transition won’t be easy. Hard choices must be made. I wish our leaders luck. Some of you seem to have all the answers. You should be president.”
Couldn’t agree more! Gotta love the internet, huh?
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Mar 7th, 2009 (4:41 pm)#45 PLJ:
It was reported here yesterday, or the day before, that Mr. Wagoner’s total compensation for 2008 was $5.8 Million. So I don’t know when the $1/year starts, but apparently not yet.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (6:26 pm)Ziv
Thanks for that link.
Think I recall that the present administration has already pulled back some permits to get shale oil out west somewhere. These people are anti-carbon in any form, probably don’t like wooden furniture.
Never owned a foreign car – never will – might be walking. Go GM.
The spelling seems better today.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (6:41 pm)#47 noel park
I think his salary was $1/year, not total compensation, which includes quite a few shares of stock (not worth much now) and some allowances for expenses of one kind or another. So there may not be a conflict.
$5.8 million is a huge amount to a person like me, but not very much compared to CEOs of other comparable places.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (7:11 pm)Most people should probably just skip this post, lol
#24 ziv said:
Statik that is great news about Mark to Market, it would really slow the losses and possibly, allow something of a return to normality. Are they going to repeal FAS 157, even temporarily? You would think they would look at the results and toss it permanently.
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I doubt they are going to repeal FAS 157, my sense is while something like this may be in order…it is just too much for the relatively green House committee to understand, replace and pump through quickly. If they do go ahead, we maybe see some kind of blank moratorium that would cover it.
I don’t know that FAS 157 ever really worked as intended/at all in the first place…the timely certainly was uncanny. I get the feeling it was brought in mainly to open the disclosure on level 3 assets (and then get them/companies to price them more realistically), which are mostly done at managements discretion.
I don’t think FAS 157 has ever forced anyone to do anything…but rather has opened up a whole can of trouble with investors and regulators freely poking around asking themselves just what is the exit value of these assets today. FAS 157 basically ignores what the intrinsic long term value of asset is (which is perfectly reasonable in some situations and in stables markets…but not all the time)…and to me thats the big problem.
/apologies for the sidetrack
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Mar 7th, 2009 (7:16 pm)One of the elements of the stimulus is 300 million for modernising the government fleet with more fuel efficient vehicles. I can see some of that buying Volts, and Ford Hybrids, maybe even some electric Jeeps for mail delivery (they would need some body work though). I still think Chapter 11 is needed for GM to get some cooperation from the bond holders. I don’t like the idea of them gaming the government and coming out whole. I don’t see much need for a union either, just another siphon of funds into another pot.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (7:24 pm)Forget what Rick has/will earn. Its not real relevant to anything. His TOTAL incompetance at running a profitable organisation surely deserves instant dismissal. This organisation needs to be pared down till its PROFITABLE!!!! How F#$%^&* hard is that to understand? Nothing has happened in the last three months to engender any hope, sack them all I say! (bancruptcy )
The Volt will go ahead because it makes sense in so many areas. All the nay sayers can just take a hike. Personally ,I want to play with a quad core Apple mac than a lame 8086 based pc. It won’t suit everyone over night but there are sufficient people to buy in to make it a success. Who runs the program in the future is the point of interest. Don’t be surprised if Toyota,despite all its negativity to plug-in, Li-io batteries and total electric dive, is secretly working on this model as well-just in case. Its a pity they didn’t take this course in the first place. I suspect it was hubris. Who could blame them, everything seemed to go their way. But then again, innovation was never their forte, refinement and finess is their strength.
Now that the shit is hitting the fan, maybe we are on the cusp of a new wave. Intersting things are definitely happening!
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Mar 7th, 2009 (7:38 pm)Dear Len, its not the unions at fault. Your system is set up to go this way. The whole economic industrial model is flawed. There is no point working like a dog and still not be able to afford food, shelter and basic health security. It becomes more rational to drop out. The most rational and efficient model of health insurance is a single universal system run by one organisation nominally funded through taxes. Yea yea, I hear all the usual bullshit “more taxes, no taxes, small government etc etc”
If you look at the system as a whole now, you are paying a health tax on the car GM just sold you!
It is much smarter to become effiecient AND transparent at the same time. Gm’s production costs just reflect the flaws in your economic models. This is the ELEPHANT in the room. Don’t whine that the US is perfect, because, obviously it ain’t.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (7:40 pm)Why anyone would look at the Chevy Volt to determine GM’s viability appparently knows nothing about the economics of
the auto industry. The Volt ain’t gonna save nobody, certainly not GM. No analysis of the program could possibly result in a belief that the Volt will have any effect on the bottom line. Obama’s folks will do what Obama wants them to – say that GM is viable so that enormous Federal “loans” (that will never be repaid, any more than the $24 billion that GM already owes will ever be repaid) will be provided. This is because the UAW is at play here and tens and hundreds of millions of campaign contributions from them and their sister unions.
The fact that these “deciders” have to travel to Detroit to hear the news about the Volt indicates that a press event is planned, showing that the Obama folks are “hard at work” on the economic issues. Anyone want to bet that Obama’s folks decide to save GM (actually save the UAW), regardles of what they “learn.”
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Mar 7th, 2009 (7:52 pm)Posted by #3 GM NoGood
I hope GM is honest with Obama people on the chance of the PHEV success. My understanding is the Chevy Volt is extremely risky and the battery likely to last much shorter than 10 years under normal driving condition,
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This is just uninformed stupidity. LG Chem is warrantying the batteries for 10 years or 150,000 miles. Neither Volt owners nor GM have anything to worry about. This is besides the fact that they have done countless tests on the batteries for the last year or so to verify their lifespan. They wouldn’t have said 40 miles if the batteries wouldn’t take you 40 miles. Anyone knows that it’s better to under promise and over deliver. The temperatures in Detroit are anything but ideal. The cold they get there would lead to the batteries have far worse range than in warmer climates. They aren’t just driving it around some indoor track down hill both ways and rounding up to 40.
As far as the Obama team is concerned, they better recognize that GM’s EREV technology is by far the best chance America has for economic survival over the next 10 years as the world population continues to increase and the entire world as a whole becomes more developed (aka, becomes more oil dependent and they realize how nice life is when everyone has cars and manufacture everything out of plastic, rubber, and other oil based products).
We need oil for practically every single product produced in the world and the days of cheap oil are over, we all need to get used to it and find ways to avoid burning it by the tens of millions of barrels a day just to drive around.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (8:06 pm)Ken, no one here pretends that the Volt will save GM. BUT, it does present us with hope that the future can be better and thats PRICELESS. The sky is not falling but we may just learn to stand up.
As for your childish attack on Obama, grow up. This narrow view of the economic mess we all face helps no one. You don’t quite understand the seriousness of the situation, its not just figures on the stock market, there are REAL people with millions of potentially ruined lives. As a somewhat flawed genius once said, if your not part of the solution you must be part of the problem.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (8:08 pm)Sorry Kent for calling you Ken , fraudian slip, lol.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (8:23 pm)#55 omninoish said …the best chance America has for economic survival over the next 10 years as the world population continues to increase..
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It may be helpful to consider the UN world population forecast. The following series is for world population, ages 0-4, at 5 year intervals from 2000 to 2005. The numbers (in millions) are
621 624 578 547 516 503 480 450 420 392 367
The forecast shows a declining rather than increasing human population in this age bracket from now until 2050.
Note that the first 2 numbers in the series are not forecasts but rather numbers that are “in the book,” and the third is mostly there. The others are forecasts, and “low variant” is of the several forecasts they produce often considered the most likely. Total population can vary because of changes in how long people live, but age group 0-4 controls the future.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (8:34 pm)#53 andrino says There is no point working like a dog and still not be able to afford food, shelter and basic health security…
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The above description does not apply to GM’s autoworkers.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (8:36 pm)The best way for the current situation to be perceived and analyzed is from the “outside” in at this point. Objectivity from the “outside” of any organization, where there are absolutely *****NO***** special interest agendas, just a relentless drive to cause the best good for the highest number of people to cause an unfeasible situation to come about to the most feasible set of processes is what this will all be about.
While yes, the greatest effect for change must come from the source of greatest political and moral authority in charge of America’s future as well as the environments’ future,
President Obama is certainly the one for this good cause which requires his immediate decisiveness. This is certainly the time for the bold consideration of Federal Grants to GM as well as to any other US OEM whose engineering divisions can clearly demonstrate the core competencies and relentless drive that will be required for our necessary conversions over to green electric motoring.
Our current situation for electric motoring is exactly a parallel to when Dwight Eisenhower caused the construction of the Interstate Highway System. Although the fact that America must now quickly find the ways to ****teach**** the unemployed new technical skills (for those whom are willing to quickly learn), time has run out for the typical “talk” about what might work, and to directly contact any party wishing to be involved in ****MAKING***** these necessary changes work.
There will be no excuses for dysfunctional political-sidelining. The unemployed are in no mood for vain “talk” radio which does nothing for anyone except provide a vain “head-trip”. (And the unemployed should let them know about it every minute they are not on the air).
Technology has now gone beyond the owner’s abilities to sense when extremely cost-devastating damages are now in progress in all your autos.
The Voltec technologies represent an extremely necessary changeover from the Internal Combustion Horse which has been technologically flogged-to-death as far as long-term cost viability is concerned. Excepting few of you hear about it now, but I assure you, you will all begin to start hearing about it by the end of this next Summer. You do not see all of it coming. I certainly do.
This is the reason why I represent that the Voltec Technology
*********************************MUST*************************************
be financially underwritten by our Federal Funding just as was funded our Interstate Highway system by President Eisenhower.
So much synergy in this regards converting environmental problems, joblessness problems, long-term (high mileage) feasibility economic problems, technical retraining problems, and revitalizing the Spirit of America in a clearly unified set of ways…….
……This is what the Voltec technologies can do for us.
Dan Petit Austin TX
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Mar 7th, 2009 (9:01 pm)#3 GM Nogood Says: If GM eventually fail to deliver due to battery problem (My understanding is that is highly likely), there should be an investigation by the government on GM …
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GM has been open about the battery testing. A year ago they weren’t sure, but today they’ve already tested multiple battery packs beyond 10 years worth of charge/discharge, many of them at extreme temperatures. The batteries have all performed at or beyond expectations.
So when you hear people in the press saying that the batteries aren’t ready, don’t believe them. The batteries are ready.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (9:07 pm)#5 Adrian Says: … we should drill on our soil as much as we can, as soon as we can, so that we can stop funding Hugo Chavez and Iran for their oppresive political goals.
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You obviously don’t know the facts. There isn’t enough oil left in America to ever make us independant of Chavez and Iran. The U.S. only has 3% of the world’s oil, and we use 25%.
I’m starting to think that we should allow the oil companies to drill where ever they want, just so that people like Adrian can see the facts. Offshore drilling was a smokescreen put up by the oil companies to divert our attention from PHEVs. Maybe we should call their bluff…
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Mar 7th, 2009 (9:10 pm)#7 Randy Says: You are forgetting Nat Gas ,already in service
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Compressed natural gas cars produce more carbon emissions that a regular gas engine car. See here for details (chart on page 4):
http://www.stanford.edu/group/greendorm/participate/cee124/TeslaReading.pdf
I guess Pickens glossed over that little detail…
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Mar 7th, 2009 (9:17 pm)#9 carcus1 Says: Any “convincing” should be done with real world numbers verified in independent testing. Top of the list:
1. Avg mpg after “customer depletion” of battery”
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You must be a Prius owner.
Reality: MPG after the gas engine turns on has relatively little effect on gas consumption. The vast majority of miles are driven before the gas engine ever turns on.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (9:18 pm)President Obama has the opportunity to fulfill part of his “yes we can” plan. The tax payer has been very generous and incredibly tolerant during the multi billion dollar loan payments to the U.S. auto manufacturers.
Mr, President, it’s now time to feed the roots. You can inject another 20 billion at the current auto slow down in the form of auto maker loans. Or you can tell the U.S. auto makers that the money is on hold until they actually start moving product to the tax payer.
The new tax money injections being in the form of instant rebates taken directly off sticker prices. Have your meeting with the Big 3 and choose a hard sticker price for the Voltecs. Have GMAC financing agree to offering 4 year loans at 1.9% interest. And provide a $10,000 instant rebate on Voltec purchases.
Everyone wins with this system. GMAC finance makes 1.9%, the tax payers get their electric cars at a decent price, UAW is back to working normal hours, production flow suppliers are back in business to produce and pay taxes. The economy picks up. Wall Street finally gets a little air. We all win.
So how many U.S. produced Voltecs would be subsidized under this plan? Let’s do the math.
$20,000,000,000 / $10,000 per car = 2 million electric cars on the road
Isn’t this what you said you wanted Mr. Obama?
=D~
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Mar 7th, 2009 (9:30 pm)#45 PLJ,
I agree. Rick Wagoner could just throw in the towel and let someone else take the reins, and he could go off into a comfortable retirement. It does take courage and fortitude to lead in these difficult times. Every know-nothing in the world is coming out of the woodwork to be a critic. My hat’s off to him for staying at his post.
#60 Dan Petit
Thanks for your many posts. I have noted that you work directly in the auto industry, and that counts for a lot more than the comments I see from the casual observers that offer opinions with no true understanding of the industry.
One thing I think some here are going to have to understand is that we as Americans are spoiled (and I think most of us know it), and we don’t want to give up fast cars, pickup trucks, and 4WD SUV’s to drive little shitboxes whose only saving grace is that they get better gas mileage.
Last year at a conference in Washington DC I heard Newt Gingrich speak about our current situation. He stated that the same thing that has saved us from other problems and economic downturns in the past will also save us from the one we face today. That savior is Science and Technology.
Whether is was an energy crisis, pollution, or another problem, new techology came to remedy the situation. E-REV represents part of the solution for our oil addiction, but yet doesn’t present the compromise in performance that a small econbox would. It can be applied to cars, vans, trucks, and other vehicles. It is the “no-compromise” technology that will take us forward into the age of electric transportation.
As you mention, hopefully the current Administration will see the true significance of this technology, and appreciate all GM has done to make it reliable, affordable, and efficient, and realize it is a technology of major importance to the future of this country.
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Mar 7th, 2009 (9:40 pm)GM Nogood @ 3:
Where are your cites? You make some statements but give some support for such things that GM’s claims are false that the battery will not perform as touted.
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Mar 8th, 2009 (12:27 am)To omnimoeish AND Dave G:
You guys are the brightest fellows on the planets. GM will appreciate that!
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Mar 8th, 2009 (12:41 am)RB, just supose GM workers worked under your idea of ideal wages. What would they earn, 15 an hr? How can they then aford a mortgage, raise a family buy a car (of any description ) AND pay for health insurance?
How many former GM employees depend on their GM pension for survival? What happens to these people when the money dries up? Are they just left outside the “tent” to die?
I was trying to point out that the simple solution always has unintentioned calamity. My post was meant to stimulate your brain into analysing things as they are, I am not saying I have great answers, but you have to start by questioning ALL the premis’s that go into the equation. Unfortunately conservative capaitalists seem hell bent on saving the status quo instead of rigorous intellectual analysis and suggestions for improvement. My point? Stop chanting mantras.
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Mar 8th, 2009 (12:49 am)BillR, come on man. The guy is a loser, $80 billion worth. We have the same cultural trait in Australia – keep working hard at it and it will come around. Isn’t $80 billion enough reason to believe they have no idea? Another one of your favourite sons had a geat saying, ” a man’s gotta know his limitations” !!!! Cut the losses and get new management. already.
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Mar 8th, 2009 (12:52 am)They should let the President drive one. I want to hear his opinion!
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Mar 8th, 2009 (4:43 am)Well… It’s been awhile, but I’ll chime in on this one.
“Our little Volt” is the future. It is also the Legacy of GM who we’ve come to hate and love at once.
Regardless of what happens to GM, the Volt will live on.
Think about that…
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Mar 8th, 2009 (4:48 am)Great photo Lyle.
A state of the art car, produced by a company receding into the sunset.
Well hopefully we will get to see another sunrise.
Looking forward to the GSB.
PS: If you think more government money is bad check out where 50 Billion Dollars given to AIG went (apart from the executive sponsored junkets). Not all banks are foreign owned.
Health warning: If you have high blood pressure stay away.
“http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/” Delete quote marks.
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Mar 8th, 2009 (6:48 am)Maybe #71 comment will lead to the #34…
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Mar 8th, 2009 (7:17 am)#2 GM Nogood
My understanding is the Chevy Volt is extremely risky and the battery likely to last much shorter than 10 years
This coming from a moron named aptly GM Nogood, your understanding seems a bit biased you think??
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Mar 8th, 2009 (7:40 am)#69 andrino.aa Says: … just suppose GM workers worked under your idea of ideal wages. What would they earn, 15 an hr?
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If the UAW worked for free, GM would still be in trouble. UAW workers only account for 10% of GM’s costs.
GM’s real problems seem to be (in order of importance):
1) Debt to bondholders
2) Tight credit market prevents people from financing new cars
3) Too many brands & dealers
4) Too much assembly line capacity to build cars in a depressed market
5) Parts suppliers demanding higher prices due to GM’s uncertainly
6) UAW costs
So while the UAW is part of the problem, it’s a relatively minor part. Yes, the UAW has to make some real concessions, but it makes no sense for them to make concessions if GM can’t deal with the bondholders, dealers, parts suppliers, etc..
The UAW has been very consistent on this. They are willing to share the pain. When the bondholder’s start making real concessions, then the UAW will follow, and not before.
So to anyone who is blaming GM’s problems on the UAW, I would say they are misinformed at best, or purposely misleading at worst.
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Mar 8th, 2009 (7:49 am)The picture above is a sunrise. Some would prefer to claim it is a sunset and all that they would have that imply. “Sunsetters” as you might also call them, are vested in the past, with the pasts disappointments, the pasts’ legacies, and most of all, the lack of practical lessons not learned from the past. “Sunsetters” resort to easy “arm-chair-history-answers” of the past failures.
Sunsetters are emotionally-dysfunctional in their responses always to infer anything they can counterclaim (against reason) for an inconsistency (on supposedly your part, as apparently your dysfunction), so that their dysfunction should thus not be critiqued nor be called upon for improvement in any way.
They are chronically in an intellectual “rut” which will take some effort for them to pull themselves “out” to fair and balanced reasoning. This can happen by being relentlessly kind toward those past concerns while being firmly confident in acting responsibly at this time of “Sunrise of the future”.
My relentless push for a more immediate and widespread adoption of Voltec technologies isn’t iconoclastic to me. The Voltec technologies are worthy of our responsible-emphasis and commitments because they will buy our existence valuable “time” by which we may cause a greater portion of the planets’ remaining kinds of life sufficient time in order for us to kill off as much as our Carbon Dioxide waste-stream as is possible, as efficiently as is possible.
Starting today in every decision we make, ask, “How much carbon dioxide will this cause?”, is valid, and, it is money-saving.
All wealth directly comes out of our environment. The environment is presently collapsing and “selecting-out-for-survival” the most efficient usages of it. The moral guidelines in helping us do that in caring and love are best brought out of us by our commitments to our good faiths.
(Oops, I’m late for Mass!).
Dan Petit Austin TX.
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Mar 8th, 2009 (7:51 am)Don’t call my Volt “little”……
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Mar 8th, 2009 (7:52 am)#72 Eric E Says: Regardless of what happens to GM, the Volt will live on.
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I’m not so sure.
If GM goes files for Chapter 11 bankrupcy, then people may be too scared to buy a car from GM. So Chapter 11 could easily lead to Chapter 7 (bye, bye GM).
If this happens right as the Volt is coming out, then the Volt could be blamed for the demise of GM. In that case, nobody would pick up the Volt development, and other car manufactures may be afraid to develop an extended range EV for many years. Sort of like the DeLorean effect…
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Mar 8th, 2009 (8:08 am)#77 Dan Petit,
Carbon emissions are only one reason for wanting the Volt.
National security experts all agree that dependence on foreign oil is a huge problem. Iran is building nukes. Oil money is funding Al-Qaeda. A suicide bomber knows that his family will be well-paid for life. If we don’t find a way to kick our oil habit, there could be a more immediate hell to pay than climate change, as in a 20 kiloton bomb on New York, L.A., or Washington D.C..
Economists all agree that we can’t continue to bleed oil money abroad. Our economy will not withstand it. If oil prices go up again, we’re all screwed.
So for the people that don’t believe in global warming, there are still plenty of reasons to want the Volt…
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Mar 8th, 2009 (9:11 am)I think a little CO2 warming the planet is a good thing if it works. If it was harmful, I’d support nuclear power development as the surest way to reduce emissions. After all, the Volt will be largely powered by coal and nuclear plants.
Two traits of liberalism are the assumption of moral and intellectual superiority; thus the hubris and disdain.
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Mar 8th, 2009 (5:36 pm)I support the Volt . . . and that is why I support a pre-packaged bankruptcy. GM needs to be freed from its crushing obligations to retiree healthcare, bond interest payments, etc. GM needs a pre-packaged bankruptcy combined with a low interest loan from the government as they come out of bankruptcy. It is the only viable plan, IMHO.
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Mar 8th, 2009 (5:40 pm)#80 Dave G
I’m with you. I think the Volt along with other series-hybrids & pure EVs are important because:
1) National Security benefit of reducing money flowing to regions of the world that support terrorists (Islamists as you point out).
2) National security benefit of not being dependent on foreign sources for energy.
3) National economic benefit of reducing the trade deficit since billions flow out of the country to pay for oil.
Although I do feel reducing GHG is a good benefit that I support, I also know that it doesn’t poll well and is not a good selling point. So it is not a benefit I spend any time talking about.
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Mar 8th, 2009 (7:50 pm)#81 Shawn Marshall Says: I think a little CO2 warming the planet is a good thing if it works. If it was harmful, I’d support nuclear power development as the surest way to reduce emissions. After all, the Volt will be largely powered by coal and nuclear plants.
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Warming the planet will cause huge problems.
First, not every place on the plant will get warmer. Some places may actually get cooler due to changing climate patterns.
Polar regions and high elevations will become much warmer. Melting of ice and snow in Greenland and Antarctica will cause the oceans to rise, but this will take a while. A more immediate problem is the disappearance of snow and ice in high elevations. This snow melt feeds rivers and aquifers during the dry seasons. Without it, we will have water shortages, droughts, etc.
Then there is the warming of the oceans. The total number of tropical storms is about the same, but the number of deadly hurricanes has doubled or tripled. There is also a lot more severe storms.
So what we’ll have is more droughts, more floods, more water shortages, more tornadoes, but the temperature in most places will feel about the same. You might want to think about supporting nuclear, or other fuel sources that are carbon free.
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Mar 8th, 2009 (9:07 pm)Shawn Marshall #81
Read about the topics and form an opinion after reading, not the other way around. You are deeply misinformed. Climate change is not a good thing for the planet nor is it for us.
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Oct 28th, 2009 (11:09 am)cool pics
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