AND 
President Obama Addresses Plug-in Car Batteries and US Auto Industry in Upcoming Budget and References the Volt
In his first Presidential Address to the Congress, President Obama gave clues to his upcoming budget and how it will address the US auto industry and the plug-in car battery industry.
He stated that “the budget I submit will invest in the three areas that are absolutely critical to our economic future: energy, health care, and education. It begins with energy.”
In a clear reference to the Chevy Volt he said “new plug-in hybrids roll off our assembly lines, but they will run on batteries made in Korea.” He countered that this shouldn’t be the case and that he does not “accept a future where the jobs and industries of tomorrow take root beyond our borders,” rather he contends “it is time for America to lead again.”
In terms of the US auto industry overall Obama noted “everyone recognizes that years of bad decision-making and a global recession have pushed our automakers to the brink.” Further, he stated “we should not, and will not, protect them from their own bad practices.”
But in a sign that further bailout is on the way advised “we are committed to the goal of a re-tooled, re-imagined auto industry that can compete and win. Millions of jobs depend on it. Scores of communities depend on it. And I believe the nation that invented the automobile cannot walk away from it.”
Finally he warns “none of this will come without cost, nor will it be easy. But this is America. We don’t do what’s easy. We do what is necessary to move this country forward.”
Source (CNN )
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February 25th, 2009 at 7:02 am
I didn’t get to watch it, but we need all the help we can get.
There is no question that our automakers have made mistakes. But it is time to move forward and get EVs perfected ASAP on the road as soon as possible.
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February 25th, 2009 at 7:08 am
From the Article,
n a clear reference to the Chevy Volt he said “new plug-in hybrids roll off our assembly lines, but they will run on batteries made in Korea.” He countered that this shouldn’t be the case and that he does not “accept a future where the jobs and industries of tomorrow take root beyond our borders,” rather he contends “it is time for America to lead again.”
————
Yes and No.
Yes we should make the batteries here so we can lead again.
No if the goal is protectionism.
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February 25th, 2009 at 7:17 am
From the Article,
But in a sign that further bailout is on the way advised “we are committed to the goal of a re-tooled, re-imagined auto industry that can compete and win.
I love the word re-imagined. I believe with a blank check, anything can be done.
===================
From the article,
” Further, he stated “we should not, and will not, protect them from their own bad practices.”
I imagine it will be difficult getting the money to the automakers while at the same time not protecting them “from their own bad practices”.
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February 25th, 2009 at 7:18 am
One of the currently in vogue public address devices is to state the opposite of the plan. Thus we should not protect “them” from “their own bad practices” when in fact the plan is to keep them afloat. Ear candy for those who voted for socialism.
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February 25th, 2009 at 7:32 am
Sounded good but crystal ball cloudy as to anything specific.
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February 25th, 2009 at 7:37 am
#1 Rashiid Amul Says: I didn’t get to watch it, but we need all the help we can get.
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You can watch the speech here:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/02/24/video.obama.sotn/index.html
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February 25th, 2009 at 7:37 am
#6 Dave G
Thanks for the link.
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February 25th, 2009 at 7:39 am
I like President Obama. I think he is the better choice of the two in this last election. He has good intentions and is strongly in favor of rebuilding America through the people. Up to last night I rated his performance a B. After last night I feel he slipped to a C+.
The president needs to get away from the double speak and mixed message sending. He can survive for four years doing this, it’s just not what america needs now. He is president, not king.
He has had a hand in spending about $1.2 trillion in tax dollars so far. His future spending plans to carry low income University students and provide health care for all children. I am not an economist. Nor am I above average in intelligence. But, wouldn’t it be best to build 100 new hospitals with the TARP dollars rather than jam all these uncovered kids through already crowded emergency rooms? This is two new hospitals per state. Wouldn’t this create jobs rather than a welfare line? Wouldn’t this create a vacuum for more university trained employees, rather than sponsering every available body though a higher education program?
We need reality, not vapor.
=D~
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February 25th, 2009 at 7:49 am
“new plug-in hybrids roll off our assembly lines, but they will run on batteries made in Korea.” He countered that this shouldn’t be the case and that he does not “accept a future where the jobs and industries of tomorrow take root beyond our borders,” rather he contends “it is time for America to lead again.”
And yet, he also spoke of the dangers of protectionism.
In terms of the US auto industry overall Obama noted “everyone recognizes that years of bad decision-making and a global recession have pushed our automakers to the brink.” Further, he stated “we should not, and will not, protect them from their own bad practices.”
An yet, we will.
Mixed messages? He certainly seems, at best, ambivalent and, at worst, a politician that wants to be all things to all people.
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February 25th, 2009 at 7:52 am
#4 Van Says: One of the currently in vogue public address devices is to state the opposite of the plan.
————————————————————————————–
What do you mean? Bush said that if anyone in his administration leaked the name of a CIA operative, they would be taken care of. Then when Scooter Libbey was found guilty, Bush commuted his sentense, so Libbey was taken care of.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:01 am
“Speaking of our auto industry, everyone recognizes that years of bad decision-making and a global recession have pushed our automakers to the brink. We should not and will not protect them from their own bad practices.”
Interesting.
“But credit has stopped flowing the way it should. Too many bad loans from the housing crisis have made their way onto the books of too many banks. And with so much debt and so little confidence, these banks are now fearful of lending out any more money to households, to businesses, or even to each other.”
Gee, I wonder if ACORN had anything to do with this?
Maybe we need to do a little self reflection before pointing the finger at others, Mr. President.
Let’s hope that our government actually makes prudent decisions.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:13 am
I thought the text and thrust of the speech were okay. A lot of what the President said is necessary. What bothered me the most is the Masque of the Red Death atmosphere amongst the Democratic congress.
From Pelosi’s constant smirking to the catcalls to the Republican side I was just reminded of Prospero’s guests partying and celebrating while everyone outside dies. These people just don’t get it. Real people are outside Washington suffering, constantly worried, wondering if they will be able to put food on the table or provide a future for their children and these jokers can’t keep it a serious and sober affair for one hour without turning it into a high school pep rally.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:20 am
#8 Dave K. =D~ Says: I am not an economist. Nor am I above average in intelligence. But, wouldn’t it be best to build 100 new hospitals with the TARP dollars rather than jam all these uncovered kids through already crowded emergency rooms?
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The vast majority of economists agree with the TARP loans. That includes most conservative economists. If the banks fail, the whole economy fails.
What you are suggesting with hospitals is more in line with the recently passed $789 billion stimulus package. They could have added hospital construction to that. But instead, they invested in schools, improving the energy efficiency of federal buildings, and weatherizing 1 million homes.
Note that the medical industry is one of the few areas of this economy that is not really hurting, at least not yet. So they need help the least.
School projects not only create construction jobs, but they are also an investment in our future. The rest of the world has passed us in childhood education. In order to compete in a world economy, we must do everything possible to catch up.
Improving energy efficiency in homes and federal buildings creates construction jobs, and also sets an example of energy conservation for the rest of us. Most homes are heated with oil or natural gas, both of which are imported. We import more natural gas than we export. Importing oil and natural gas is a huge drain on our economy.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:25 am
13 Dave G:
Do buildings teach children?
Outside inner cities most school infrastructure is just fine. Heck, my old high school just built an 80 million dollar high school complete with coffee bar.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:31 am
#11 BillR1
Maybe Obama should have been a bit less diplomatic and a lot more truthful, and just nailed the banks as they deserved. The problem isn’t that $300 Billion of bad loans have made their way to the banks. If that was the case, then why is the finance system short by more than $1 Trillion in liquidity?
The problem is that the unregulated banks invented a mechanism called a credit default swap, in which they created multiple insurance policies on each mortgage, where EACH policy used the house in question as collateral. So when a single $200,000 mortgage went under, it had a magnifying effect because it caused maybe $600,000 or $800,000 to disappear off the bank’s books as all of these redundant policies became valueless. THAT is the cause of this downward spiral we are in. I know that corporatists (they aren’t really conservative, so I can;t describe them as such) will bend over backwards to find excuses for corporate stupidity and incompetence, but that’s the cold hard truth. Unless we acknowledge the true cause, we can’t find an effective solution.
Having said that, there is no way in hell that I want to pay for the mortgage of some idiot who signed a variable rate loan. Let them default (which releases them of their loan obligations) and move into an apartment. I have a 30-year fixed rate loan with a rate <6% because I was smart enough to find one, and I have little sympathy for those who didn’t.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:32 am
*** 643 days to go ***
GM should be able to deliver with pres-OB1 on their side.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:36 am
#12 Morgan Says: From Pelosi’s constant smirking to the catcalls to the Republican side I was just reminded of Prospero’s guests partying and celebrating while everyone outside dies.
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I agree. With the Democrats new found power, Pelosi is acting like a kid in a candy store. Someone needs to remind the Democrats that their majority in all 3 houses may be short-lived.
When I was in grade school, our teacher did an unusual experiment. One day, everyone with brown hair was in charge, and everyone else had to do what they said (within reason). The next day, all kids with blue eyes were in charge. The next day, it was something different. We soon realized 2 things:
1) When you are in charge, you should be careful how you act, because you may be following tomorrow.
2) When you are following, it usually helps everyone follow as best you can, rather than try to fight the leader.
I wish everyone in Congress had my grade school teacher.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:37 am
#10 Dave G What do you mean? Bush said that if anyone in his administration leaked the name of a CIA operative, they would be taken care of. Then when Scooter Libbey was found guilty, Bush commuted his sentence, so Libbey was taken care of.
Libbey was not found guilty of the leak. He was found guilty of perjury, for not remembering a conversation he had several months before his testimony. This was clearly a miscarriage of justice and a case of over zealous prosecutors with an agenda. President Bush could have pardoned Libbey, but instead he commuted his Jail sentence.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:45 am
#13 Dave G:
The US does in fact import more NG than it exports. But the more important number is how much we import vs. how much overall gas we produce. On average, the US produces 1,800,000 million cubic feet per month (depending on the weather), and imports less than 300,000 million cubic feet during the same time. So we only import about 16% of our natural gas used, and nearly all of that is from Canada (not exactly petro-terrorists). So I am not quite as concerned about NG imports as I am about oil, or about imported Chinese goods. And the numbers get even better when you subtract our exports from our imports.
(FYI – all this NG data is laid out quite informatively at: http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/natural_gas/info_glance/natural_gas.html)
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:46 am
I fear that the president will find it impossible to bring jobs back to the U S while the field is not level. An example is the hard limit on imported cars to Korea while we have no limit on the number of theirs that are imported here. We saddle our manufacturers with the E P A and OSHA [which I know we need] and yet import goods from countrys that have no such safe guards. We need to treat the products each country separately and in the exact manner they treat our products. If a country like China has to shut down its manufacturers in order to clean up the air to some degree during the olimpics, then we should tax their products the amount it cost our companys to be clean.
Countrys that restrict our products should have theirs subject to the same taxs or procedures.
THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:52 am
ACORN and fluoride: The great enemies of our society!
Oh, and witches. Can’t forget witches. Remember, if they drown they were innocent, and if they float they are evil and must be burned.
The Republican Party: Fixing America, one imaginary bogeyman at a time.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:53 am
#14 Morgan Says: Do buildings teach children? Outside inner cities most school infrastructure is just fine. Heck, my old high school just built an 80 million dollar high school complete with coffee bar.
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Right. There is certainly a discrepancy in school buildings. The stimulus school renovation money is only supposed to go to schools that need it the most, not to all schools.
Let’s face it, public education is a socialist institution. It aims to give every kid an equal opportunity at being successful. I think that’s important. If people feel they are being left out, they will turn to drugs, crime, and other unproductive activities. This leads to more cops, more prisons, more food stamps, etc.. This hurts the whole economy, so it affects us all. I’m all for the free market, but when it comes to schools, it may be best for all of us to concentrate on the ones that need it the most.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:56 am
#20 Old Man – I think we can indirectly enforce important regulations onto Chinese manufacturers simply by punishing US retailers who sell faulty goods. Imagine if Toys R Us actually had to pay substantial fines and damages for selling toys with lead paint. You can bet your ass they would start looking harder at US manufacturers as suppliers.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:59 am
Jim in PA #15 says,
Having said that, there is no way in hell that I want to pay for the mortgage of some idiot who signed a variable rate loan. Let them default (which releases them of their loan obligations) and move into an apartment. I have a 30-year fixed rate loan with a rate <6% because I was smart enough to find one, and I have little sympathy for those who didn’t.
—————
Ditto.
The claim is if we let the foreclosures happen, then our own property values will decrease. I don’t care about that. I’m not going anywhere for many years to come. I do feel sorry for people who lost their jobs and can’t pay, but to he11 with the reckless people.
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February 25th, 2009 at 8:59 am
#18 Spin Says: Libbey was not found guilty of the leak. He was found guilty of perjury,
————————————————————————————–
That’s because, as it turns out, leaking the name was not illegal, so they couldn’t get him on that. But he did lie under oath to try to conceal the leak, and yes, that’s perjury.
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:08 am
#23 Jim in pa.
Agreed but it will not happen. He11 just look at the number of people on this site that seem to want BYD cars because they will be cheaper. Then they can drive around all electric [most of the time] and be so proud that the car is not polluting the air.
Now stepping down from my soap box.
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:18 am
#19 Jim in PA Says: So we only import about 16% of our natural gas used, and nearly all of that is from Canada (not exactly petro-terrorists). So I am not quite as concerned about NG imports as I am about oil, or about imported Chinese goods.
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Yes, I agree that importing oil is much worse that importing natural gas, but my point was that weatherizing homes will decrease both. For example, in New England, eight million families (50 percent of the households) still heat their homes with oil.
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:20 am
#26 Old Man
I am also dismayed by the people who would love to drive a BYD to save a few bucks. So many people here repeatedly voice disgust at being essentially enslaved by the oil dictatorships of the world, yet don’t seem to mind our increasing industrial enslavement to China.
I think the irony escapes them; trading one master for another.
I only buy American cars. But the day the US auto industry goes under, I will quickly shift to domestically-assembled Japanese or European models over ANY Chinese model. I’ll gladly spend an extra $5,000 on a Prius rather than drive a BYD.
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:21 am
I thought Germany invented the first automobile?
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:24 am
#18 Spin
I am glad to see that Republicans no longer find perjury to be a punishable offense. Bill Clinton is waiting for your apology.
(ok, ok, no more political posts today, I promise… That darn speech last night got everybody riled up.)
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:27 am
#29 k-dawg: Yup. Mr. Benz invented the first gas-powered car (three wheels), and Mr. Daimler invented the first 4-wheel gas-powered car. Wonder what ever happened to those guys…. (:
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:28 am
Dave G #13 says: “The rest of the world has passed us in childhood education. In order to compete in a world economy, we must do everything possible to catch up.”
That’s what everyone says, but I’m not so sure. Every day I see technical jobs in my field being offshored to – specifically – a country where only 7 percent of young people graduate from high-school equivalent and where more than 50 percent don’t finish elementary school. Why are we offshoring specifically *technical* jobs to specifically that particular country? Because it’s cheaper to educate only the top 7 percent that “really need” to be educated than to pursue the ideal of universal high-school (and now college) education, that’s why.
Is it really true that India and Mexico have surpassed us in K-12 education for the masses? But that’s where the “knowledge-worker” jobs are going. I haven’t heard of many jobs being offshored to Singapore, Switzerland, Japan or Finland, etc. – places that arguably are indeed surpassing us in K-12 education.
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:30 am
Obama does not “accept a future where the jobs and industries of tomorrow take root beyond our borders,” rather he contends “it is time for America to lead again.”
Well okay, if President Obama truly feels that way, if he actually believes that, then lets see him start an initiative to repeal NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement.
Time will tell.
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:36 am
#30 Jim in PA
And Vince Foster committed suicide, right?
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Dave K @ #8 – No we don’t want to build 100 new hospitals in order to give kids new emergency rooms to go through. As President Bush said 8 years ago, that is the emergency room is the most expensive form of health care. Spending the money on health insurance sends them to the doctor’s office, which can meet the vast majority of their health care needs at a much lower cost.
Back on topic, I’d love to see serious U.S. research and manufacturing muscle put behind the next generation of batteries. By that I mean whatever is beyond lithium. Does anyone out there have an idea of what will come next?
BillR1 @ #34 Vince Foster? Really? Nothing fresh has happened in the last decade or so?
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:43 am
#29 k-dawg said “I thought Germany invented the first automobile?”
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It’s usually credited to Germany’s Karl Benz.
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:44 am
Hi Dave G @ 4. I mean the same thing as stated in #3.
If you think Libby leaked the name there is nothing I can say. He was not the first to disclose the name.
According to Wikipedia, “After his identification by Corn and Isikoff in advance word of their book, Richard Armitage, a former deputy secretary of state, acknowledged that he was the initial and primary source for Novak’s column of July 14, 2003, that disclosed the identity of Wilson’s wife Valerie Plame as a CIA “operative”.[23]
Returning to topic, it is important that we build facilities to make HEV batteries using lithium mined within our borders.
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:51 am
#35 MarkinWI,
The comment was in response to an apology for Slick Willie.
For more up to date sarcasm, WMD’s were found in Iraq, right?
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:57 am
GM Bondholder update:
GM Bondholders Willing To Take 30c-40c On Dollar -Report
Feb 25, 2009 09:39:42 (ET)
DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
General Motors Corp. (GM) bondholders are signaling that they are prepared to accept 40c and possibly even as little as 30c on the dollar for for their GM debt, the Detroit News reported Wednesday on its Web site, citing people familiar with the situation. This is less than the 50c on the dollar that they had been pressing for. The concession is contingent, however, upon federal guarantees on the automaker’s new debt. Government backing would have to be approved by Congress. The deal under discussion between GM and representatives of its largest institutional bondholders would give bondholders 10c on the dollar in cash and 20c to 30c in new notes.
Full story at http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090225/AUTO01/902250373/1148/AUTO01
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:58 am
/longest post ever…I would just skip over this if I was you
—————
Although I am Canadian, I am still quasi-forced to watch these prime time dalliance’s due to their strategic placement during prime time shows. (Thank goodness for PVR and VOD if I really am not in the mood).
Exactly what happens to presidential candidates between running and winning? Suddenly they are smooshed into a little cookie-cutter mold and transformed into baptist preachers that can’t speak straight.
First off, lets start by hearing some truth about what this budget is amongst all the insesent clapping, shall we? Nope, I guess not. According to Obama, the budget is focused on three feel good things, “energy, health care, and education.” Puh-shaw. No, the budget is focused on one thing…the economy. These are merely ‘feel good’ places to focus piles of borrowed cash to build stuff and create jobs to try and spend your way out.
Secondly, the ‘green’ stuff.
A) “new plug-in hybrids roll off our assembly lines” – that sounds a lot like the present tense…and right now, there is still no guarantee that even 1 car will ‘roll off your assembly lines’ by the time your term is up…and at best you might see 50-100K
B) “We invented solar, and we are going to catch up to Germany and Japan” For starters, you didn’t. A English scientist discovered selenium was conductive, a French guy discovered the photovoltaic effect…and the first solar patent was issued to a competitor of Thomas Edison, Edward Weston…who happens to be English. Americans perfected it in the 50s (what didn’t they perfect/take the lead on in the 50s? lol)…but thats it.
As for catching up to Germans/Japanese? The DOE allocated 17 million in September to projects, Germans blew about 6 billion on it last year. This budget does not make them anymore accessible than they were in the previous administration…and if you aren’t using them, you probably aren’t making them
C) Education — Conundrum and jumping the shark time. Obama wants EVERY American to get at least one year of higher education…and of course everyone to finish high school. Naturally, because of his great charisma and speech writing he will make America have the “highest proportion of college graduates in the world” … but convieniantly enough, not until his term (s) are over by 2020.
Side note of reality: It is also impossible. For example, Canada has 55% of the population with a associate’s degree or higher (according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development), while the US is at 39%. That means they need to up enrollment by 16% to just pull even, then go much higher than that rate to pass Canada. This translates to about 40 million new Americans, that didn’t intend on going to college, to run out and enroll after hearing that speech. I suppose we could take a poll here on the forum of how many people are now motivated to pick up a text book again and go back to school…I’m guessing we come up a litte short.
D) Manufacturing — So we are going to start pumping out all these college grads, but at the same time we are bringing back all our manufacturing jobs, auto sector jobs, batteriy plants, starting solar production at home, etc. etc. What I hear is that America wants to compete and bring back the lower paying ‘Joe jobs,’ but fill them with graduates? Seems to be some mutually exclusive goals happening here. Spend 50K on a education to work for $14/hour? I hope math is eliminated from the college curriculm, or there is going to be some unhappy graduates.
Random closing thought. So, on top of doing all these fabulous things, bringing home all kinds of jobs/rebuilding the manufacturing base…it will ALSO will be getting rid of its title of “highest emitter of carbon gases,” by reducing pollution/emissions and bringing in a carbon cap. Nothing says ‘global competitor’ in manufacturing like taxing the heck out of anyone who makes stuff…like cars, batteries, solar panels etc., lol.
I’m not saying polluting is good, (or more education, or manufacturing jobs is bad), you just can’t have it both ways. At the end of the day, is that not America’s (and Canada’s) problem? We can’t burn both ends…we have to pick our battles.
My father would always say to me, “Get better at what you are good at, don’t spend your time trying to be average at things you are not”
/apologies on any grammar/spelling…I’m still kicking it old school and not using a checker
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Dave G Says:
February 25th, 2009 at 8:53 am
#14 Morgan Says: Do buildings teach children? Outside inner cities most school infrastructure is just fine. Heck, my old high school just built an 80 million dollar high school complete with coffee bar.
————————————————————————————–
Right. There is certainly a discrepancy in school buildings. The stimulus school renovation money is only supposed to go to schools that need it the most, not to all schools.
Let’s face it, public education is a socialist institution. It aims to give every kid an equal opportunity at being successful. I think that’s important. If people feel they are being left out, they will turn to drugs, crime, and other unproductive activities. This leads to more cops, more prisons, more food stamps, etc.. This hurts the whole economy, so it affects us all. I’m all for the free market, but when it comes to schools, it may be best for all of us to concentrate on the ones that need it the most.
So what your saying all of the people in school districts that did a good job and have been funding their schools should now pay extra for those who did not. Why do we help the schools who have done a poor job? Why not look at privatization?
Pumping good money after bad will not help. Here in Michigan we fund the schools in Detroit higher then most out state schools. But Detroit schools are the ones that are a mess and need help.
Just throwing money at something will not help!
Obama said he took over a trillion dollar debit what he did not say was he dubbled it in JUST ONE MONTH.
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:04 am
Although I am Canadian, I am still quasi-forced to watch these prime time dalliance’s due to their strategic placement during prime time shows. (Thank goodness for PVR and VOD if I really am not in the mood).
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You could always play a game with family or friends. I will refrain from being totally ridiculous and raise the issue of reading a book, eh.
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:05 am
It is tough being a leader. You get second-guessed a lot. Part of leadership is getting people to follow your lead. Political speeches attempt that by broadly stating intentions. Hopefully, people rally around the intentions and you build a groundswell of support. In pursuing those intentions, you meet reality. Some of the reality involves “obstructionists” – people being negative just to be negative (i.e., the opposition party). Think about your reaction to the speech. Is it knee-jerk opposition? Will in-fighting solve our problems?
Our president seems like a moderate democrat. Let’s give him a chance. You can’t predict, with high certainty, how national agendas will turn out. I remember W promising great things for us. Many of those things didn’t come to fruition. Let’s see what Obama’s actions produce before we condemn him. Right now, he is trying to unite and rally us. I hope the current administration’s actions work out for us.
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:05 am
HENRY Ford invented the automobile .thats what we say and karl benz invented thats what they say in germany. nevertheless it was ford who started the assembly line technique to make production more efficient.Ford is our legend and benz is their legend
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:06 am
So from the speech “And I believe the nation that invented the automobile cannot walk away from it.”
Is incorrect.. as I thought, Germany inveted the auto.
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:07 am
It was a good speech by an able speaker. But, we have heard the very same things more or less said year after year by one president after another. Most of what he said will bankrupt us even further than we already are. At the same time, I recognize that the government can’t do nothing. I would just love to get my hands on the government dumb butts, financial people and company officials that have caused this calamity. I would love to just squeeze their necks until something pops. Now, I know I will never get that opportunity, but believe me, I would if I could. I would like to see some of these people sent to long term prison terms.
But, getting back to the speech and the auto industry. Obama is going to do what he has to to insure the auto companies do not go out of business. Too many UAW members would be out of work and not very happy with the democrats. Obama continued some of the blame game to a smaller extent and that will be a plus if he discontinues it even more in the coming days. It is time to stop the blaming others and getting down to work to solve the problems we face. That is what he was elected to do. Solve our problems. Even though he has little chance of actually doing most of what people want of him. But, it was a good speech and I will give him a chance to carry through. Then I will make my determination of whether he has been good for America or not.
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:09 am
IDIOT! Hey Obama, Karl Benz invented the automobile in Manheim Germany. He released the first commercial available vehicle in 1885 as the motorwagen.
What he should have said is that we invented the mass production of the automobile.
Duh.
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:10 am
dont buy products from foreign nation . our dependence on china is increasing. all companies must find better technology for manufacturing rather than offshoring to china. ha ha we’ve seen british industrial revolution where machines replaced workers the same happened in america and rest of the world and tommorow it is china .but that is goanna be disastrous.for chinese govt and civil war ,hyperinflation etc will happen
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:17 am
#42 Tom H said:
“Statik said: Although I am Canadian, I am still quasi-forced to watch these prime time dalliance’s due to their strategic placement during prime time shows. (Thank goodness for PVR and VOD if I really am not in the mood).”
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You could always play a game with family or friends. I will refrain from being totally ridiculous and raise the issue of reading a book, eh.
========================
What is this 1935? Who does those things? Hehe. Didn’t you listen to the speech? No one reads books anymore. Besides, killing trees hurts the environment and producing books emits carbon.
Side note: I would love to play a game with my family or friends, but they are all at night school getting a college education after a hard day of putting a nut on a wheel, so they are qualified to put a cap on a battery pack.
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:25 am
While I give Obama props for apparently wanting to break the big oil lobby up, that’s about where my praise ends.
Energy: let the market work it out. If we weren’t subsidizing big oil with our big military, we’d be years ahead of where we are now on alternative energy.
Health care: let the market work it out. Too much lobbying and too much federal involvement have kept prices high. More government is just moving further in the wrong direction.
Education: Step back and let the states and lower levels handle it. Eliminate the Department of Education, stop federal meddling in schools.
Why in the world does everyone seem to think one guy in Washington has all the answers? More government just means more opportunity for lobbyists and special interests to manipulate the tax code and take more control over our lives. We need less government, not more.
I think television has warped our brains into thinking that the only way to fix anything is through federal government. It makes for good drama, but not good politics. How many of us even know the name of our state governor, our state representatives, our mayor?
Ok, one more prop: waaaaayyyyy better speech maker than the last one.
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:26 am
hi MarkinWI #35,
“No we don’t want to build 100 new hospitals”
______________________
1.2 trillion has been spent. Shifty bank execs made out okay. Decieving loan officers did pretty well. House flippers (quick buck schemers) are doing okay. Two automotive manufacturers have temporarily delayed reorganization.
We have three new promises for stimulus. Sonsership for all people who think they should go to a university. Free healh care for children who will need to be taken to hospitals which are currently being crowed by the wave of aging baby boomers. And don’t forget the high speed railway connecting Las Vegas to Disneyland.
I guess you’re right. We don’t need new hospitals right now. We aren’t into are third trillion yet.
As Dr. Dennis says, “What do ya’ think about that!”.
=D~
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:32 am
#41 Starcast Says: Just throwing money at something will not help!
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Right, but it’s pretty hard to learn in a building that’s falling apart. And if you’ve ever listened to Obama, he’s big into accountability. He talks openly about firing teachers.
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:46 am
Dave G
It depends what the meaning of “is” is.
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Starcast #41 v. reality.
Starcast says, “…Pumping good money after bad will not help. Here in Michigan we fund the schools in Detroit higher then most out state schools.” Well, I found this statement hard to believe and googled the subject. Came up with this:Detroit School Lacks Toilet Paper, Light Bulbs, Donations Accepted Beginning Jan. 12 .
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2160770/posts
thanks
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:09 am
#32 Fahrvergnugen Fanboy Says: Every day I see technical jobs in my field being offshored to – specifically – a country where only 7 percent of young people graduate from high-school … I haven’t heard of many jobs being offshored to Singapore, Switzerland, Japan or Finland, etc. – places that arguably are indeed surpassing us in K-12 education.
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Off-shoring is a problem. The president wants to remove tax breaks for companies that offshore jobs. That sounds good to me.
But the main point is that the wealthiest countries are the ones with the best education. That’s no coincidence. And the U.S. is falling behind on education, which is going to make things worse if not corrected.
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:17 am
#8 Dave K says “We need reality, not vapor.”
I think he delivered this. What you may have missed if you were not reading between the lines is that there will be major budget cuts in defense and in entitlements. Those are the big spending areas — 75% or thereabouts of the budget. So every percentage you cut there gives you the leeway to increase spending by three percentage point in the discretionary part of the budget. He was also explicit that there will also be tax increases as the tax cuts for the top 2% of earners expire.
FYI, you definitely do not want to build hospitals. One of the problems we’ve had with medical spending is that at one point we funded a tremendous number of community hospitals, and all of them wanted very expensive equipment better used at secondary or tertiary care centers because the utilization rate at the community hospitals was too low.
#40 statik – Hopefully your day will improve. Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha!
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:22 am
If it helps the US auto industry to survive, and promotes fuel efficient cars and trucks and energy independence, I am all for it.
Even John McCain, when Larry King asked him flat out last night if the Republicans want president Obama to fail, said “No, we want him to succeed.” Let’s not shoot ourselves in the feet guys.
That said, I would be a lot more interested in Volt progress reports, and a lot less in political pontification.
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:25 am
Obama said:
“And I believe the nation that invented the automobile cannot walk away from it.”
Why is he referencing Germany?
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:28 am
February 25th, 2009 at 11:34 am
Off topic but certainly Auto industry related, I came across the excellent following article if anyone is interested:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/23/news/companies/federal_auto_options/index.htm?postversion=2009022417
It’s entitled, “4 ways to fix Detroit – But none is easy”. I thought it was a very good read and provided a good overview of the Gov’ts options for the Auto industry.
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:34 am
#40 Statik
Right on, brother, right on.
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:36 am
What’s Germany got to do with it? Says: Why is he referencing Germany?
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Try France.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_invented_the_automobile
But Benz wasn’t first. The French inventor de Rochas built an auto, and an engine to drive it, in 1862.
The first mass produced automobile was made by Henry Ford.
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:45 am
“And I believe the nation that invented the automobile cannot walk away from it.”
In that case, that would be Hungary.
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:46 am
That was in 1828.
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:51 am
#62 Dave G
He didn’t say mass produced, he said invented. He’s a lawyer, so I’m going to hold his feet to the words matter fire.
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:52 am
#43 ThombDbhomb
The problem our president faces is that he may want to govern from the center-left, but he has democrats in congress who want to govern from the extreme left. Obama’s problem with this is what he did with the stimulus bill. He allowed the extremist in the democrat party to set the spending agenda and he accepted that to get a bill passed. His real courage will come when he says no to those extremist and vetoes some bills that go much further than he wants to go. My personal opinion at this point is that he will not say no to those extremist democrats and we will see bills passed that will be loaded with provisions that will cost all of us dearly. Obama speaks fluently, but he does have the problem of trying to say things just to please his voters. He must say them, I know, or face out-right criticism from his own party and supporters. I don’t think Obama has a solid position on any issue except remaking our government to be the “be all” to all people. We don’t need that type of government, but I don’t think he can resist making the play for it.
If he can overcome his own leanings and those of his own party and work with the members of his party and those in the republican party who want to really solve the nation’s problems and not just re-invent our government, then he has a chance of becoming a great president. I just don’t hold out much hope for that. So far the democrats in congress have hot allowed any republican bills to be presented or any republican amendments to be added to proposed bills. They have cut the republicans out of any say in any of the bills passed so far. The only time the republicans have had a voice was when it came time to vote. That is the only time they have been able to speak on the bills going through congress.
Obama needs to build a coalition of democrats and republicans in the house and senate to work toward re-building our country. And the coalition does not consist of just three republican senators. It needs to be a broad coalition. I believe he can work with the republicans, but he has to meet them half way and bring some real democrats along. If he can do that, he will find plenty of republicans to help. IMO.
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:53 am
#26 Old Man and #28 Jim in PA
Some of us worry about our families first and living within our means. We don’t use our car purchases to make political statments and to us $5k is a LOT of money. My geopolitcal idealism takes a backseat to my familiy’s economic well being. So count me among those that would indeed purchase a BYD if it was cheaper.
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February 25th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
#60 Schmeltz Says: I came across the excellent following article if anyone is interested:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/23/news/companies/federal_auto_options/index.htm?postversion=2009022417
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Yes, excellent read. Of the 4 options, I would vote for either:
2) Force a merger between GM and Chrysler
or
4) Allow Chrysler to die
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February 25th, 2009 at 12:14 pm
#67 Jaime – But you ARE making a political/social statement by spending $20,000 on an electric BYD when you could get a 36 mpg Cobalt for $15,000 (or a Honda Fit). If you buy the BYD, it will take you 60,000 miles to make your money back based on gas savings at $3/gallon and the assumption of free electricity. Therefore a BYD purchase is not the best way to save money if it takes 5 years to start saving. Just sayin’…. we all have our priorities, and seldom is money the only one.
And of course, the BEST way to save money on a car is to buy a newer used car so you aren’t paying for the astronomical depreciation that occurs in the first two years. That also takes a BYD off the shopping list.
Either way, good luck with the family. Things are gonna get worse before they get better, and family has to come first. Hell, I’d drive a pink Mary Kay car to make ends meet if I had to. (ok, maybe I’d take a trip to Maaco for a cheap paint job as part of the deal).
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February 25th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
#60 Schmeltz
It was a good article. Thanks for the link. It stated the obvious as discussed many times on this forum. The options in the article seem to be what most of us see as the only options. I, personally, don’t see how Chrysler can survive long-term unless the American public turns away from foreign autos and start really buying from Ford, GM and Chrysler. Even then, Chrysler may not get enough of the pie to stay afloat. But, how much chance do any of us give to the idea of Americans actually giving up their steady diet of foreign cars?
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February 25th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
#66 N Riley
Thank you for respectful debate.
I like Obama’s rhetoric and actions wrt bridging divides. He has done things that the extreme left disagrees with. I still have hope. We’ll see how things turn out.
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February 25th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
#71 ThombDbhomb
Ditto for me, mostly. I want him to succeed. Not like the democrats did with George W. Bush. It is time to move past that type of hate. But, I don’t think they are ready or able to do so. If not, I hope they pay for it at the polling booth. We don’t need that in America anymore. We have had three decades of this type of politics and it must end.
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February 25th, 2009 at 12:48 pm
hi DonC #56,
“…there will be major budget cuts in defense and in entitlements…”
_________________________
It’s still vapor until disclosed. Two aircraft carriers perhaps?
I will stand fast on new hospitals being better for America than the Vegas to La La Land shuttle. Time will tell when the boomers need care.
=D~
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February 25th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
#68 Dave G. and #70 N. Riley:
Thanks guys. I guess if I was King of the Auto Industry for a day, of the 4 difficult options listed in the article, I would choose:
#4 – “Let Chrysler Die”
and
#2 for GM – “Re-organize under Bankruptcy”.
It brings me no joy to see any Company die, but under the challenging circumstances, I submit that these may be the best solutions for a better industry long term.
Sorry for hijacking the thread Lyle!
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February 25th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
#15 Jim in PA says that credit default swaps caused the relatively limited lousy mortgage problem to expand to a trillion dollar bank problem because banks took out three or four times the value of the mortgages as insurance.
I am extremely interested in this but I don’t understand what Jim is saying. I thought a credit default swap is basically a kind of insurance that a loan or investment won’t go bad. I have invested in municipal bonds which were insured by insurance companies. This I understand. So how does a “credit default swap” differ? First, what does the weird name mean? If it’s an insurance policy, why isn’t it just called that?
But the strangest part is when he says that three or four insurance policies were taken out on each mortgage. If you’re insuring one mortgage, why would you want to pay for three or four times as much insurance as you need?
Can Jim give us a detailed example that shows just what was going on here–and why? Can he offer any reference to online explanations?
Thanks very much.
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February 25th, 2009 at 12:52 pm
Wednesday February 25, 2009, 12:42 pm EST
WASHINGTON (AP) — Top executives of Chrysler LLC took pleas for billions in new loans to members of the Obama administration’s auto task force Wednesday.
Chrysler Chairman and CEO Bob Nardelli, Vice Chairman Tom LaSorda and Chief Financial Officer Ron Kolka huddled behind closed doors with the administration panel, said a Chrysler official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the private nature of the talks.
Struggling to survive, Chrysler and General Motors Corp. have received $17.4 billion in federal loans. They are seeking an additional $21.6 billion to keep operating during a difficult recession and a major plunge in auto sales.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Car-exec-Obama-task-force-apf-14466703.html
=D~
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
Hum? $21.6 billion. That’s 25 new state of the art 300 bed hospitals. High paying construction jobs. Followed by 100,000 permanent jobs ranging from janitor to housekeeper to cook to lab worker to attendant to nurse to doctor. Nah, we need cars. Don?
=D~
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:14 pm
Good to see the man supporting move to electric vehicles.
Even better to see him start cleaning up this mortgage mess after being bush wacked by the previous admin. Those that can afford your current mortgage payment, more power to you. For those that can’t we need Obama, he will make it right. I am sure he will start swapping all Bush’s Variable Rates with an Obama Fixed Rate ! YES WE CAN !
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
#56 Don C said -
I think he delivered this. What you may have missed if you were not reading between the lines is that there will be major budget cuts in defense and in entitlements.
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Yes, cut defense spending. It’s what the Dems always do and there go the remaining American based high paying manufacturing jobs. Make fun of corporate jets and lose the aircraft jobs. What planet are you living on to believe major budget cuts in entitlements are coming. Social security, medicare/medicaid are hardwired costs, all mandated and mostly unfunded liabilities. These costs have been pushed off into the future but the bill is still coming do. So unless the country defaults these costs will kill discretionary spending in the near future. Social security mirrors exactly what Bernie Madoff was doing, a giant Ponzi scheme. This President has created more debt in one month than the previous four presidents. The only way to cut entitlement spending is to ration care in medicare/medicaid (already coming) and to make social security an even worse deal than it is now (cut benefits and raise the retirement age). Obama is president now, the time for promising everybody evrything is past, the time for campaign speeches is over. Bad government policy mandates (fannie/freddie, community reinvestment act, allowing Wall Street investment schemes into the housing market) led to this financial fiasco and to think that government bureaucrats can manage banks, the auto industry, and energy is just plain delusional. With Pelosi at large and in charge welcome to the future – CALIFORNIA – where all poor policy decisions are allowed to flourish and kill a state.
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
#73 Dave K.
“I will stand fast on new hospitals being better for America than the Vegas to La La Land shuttle.”
You think we need new hospitals more than we need better functioning mass transit? I’ve been hearing about mass transit needs for a long time. On the health care front, the needs seem to concern costs, not avaliability of facilities.
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Blah Blah Blah….
Yak Yak Yak…
Just build my Volt Dangit!!!
No Power Windows
No Power Adjust Seats
No Power Side view mirrors
No Power Sunroof (Actually No Sunroof at all)
No Power Door Locks
No Power Trunk lock
No Radio (Remember that fiasco? – Get an iPod)
No Heated Seats
No OnStar!!!
I’ll take my Volt with No Generator, No ICE, ShAkEn not StirreD…
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
hi ThombDbhomb #80,
Short and long term jobs are created. Many requiring a university education. The biggest population this country has ever supported is entering their 60’s now.
We’ll be getting something for our tax dollar for a change.
If this fresh auto maker request for 21 bil is granted then they’ll be no turning back. We’ll have too much in to fold. Two weeks ago I heard the figure $100 billion mentioned (worse case).
Got to run, be back tonight. Thanks to all the responders as this is a very important debate. And one that should not be conducted like a pep rally.
=D~
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:28 pm
AMEN to that CaptJackSparrow # 81, utilitarian is the way to go, no iPod anything
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
I am sure the first real auto was invented by the Germans.
As was the first real motorcycle and the first real highway system.
By “real” I mean they resemble what we still use today.
Henry Ford made the first “affordable” auto for the masses and changed the way cars are made. Today most of the worlds autos are still made following the manufacturing methods created by Henry Ford.
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:33 pm
#56 DonC said:
#40 statik – Hopefully your day will improve. Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha!
======================
What do you mean? Any day that we have a new thread and I can argue semantics all day is a good one. (=
#66 N Riley:
Thanks for the good, common sense read. No need to make this thing anymore complicated than it has to be.
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
#60 & #74 Schmeltz:
Don’t apologize. I think you took, or at least tried to take, the thread in a much better direction.
#81 CaptJackSparrow:
I’m with you brother!
Just for the record, I like the President, and I liked his speech. In case anyone hadn’t noticed, the polls and the election results show that the majority of Americans support him.
“Lead, follow, or get out of the way.”
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:44 pm
Chairman Obomination wants us to listen to his speeches but pay no attention while the US Army spends $6Billion on “riot equipment”.
http://www.infowars.com/us-army-to-buy-6-million-of-riot-equipment/
while training US troops to operate on US soil for “civil unrest and crowd control”.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl6RXRHMXwE
Meanwhile, 22 States Claim Sovereignty: AZ, AL, AK, AR, CA, CO, GA, HI, ID, IN, KS, ME, MI, MO, MT, NH, NV, OK, PA, SC, TX, & WA and tell the Federal Gov’t to get lost!
The States are evoking the 9th & 10th Amendments to refuse the Federal mandate strings attached to the bailout pork. It seems unfair that the Federal Gov’t can print money but the States can’t so they refuse to be held hostage to Federal Extortion.
Entertaining speech. Too bad it wasn’t in German or Cantonese.
What’s REALLY going on? (look deep into the crystal ball)
What will you trade for your shiny new Volt? Your liberty? Your child’s future? Your heritage? Your ethics? Your soul? All the above? Name your price and the Chairman/savior will print the money.
Beware what you wish for. There is ALWAYS a price.
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Obama seems to be acquiring the reputation as either a fool, or
someone who lies a lot. And I mean, a lot. America did not invent the automobile, as Obama claimed. Nor did it create the largest middle class by sending soldiers off to college. It did so by winning the war and being the only industrialized country whose economy wasn’t destroyed by WWII. And any silly claims that the US auto industry can compete by “reinventing itself” shows an almost total lack of reality about the problem faced by Detroit. That problem is called the UAW, a union that put millions into Obama’s coffers and is getting the behavior from its puppet that it expected : Obama blames everyone EXCEPT those responsible for the decline of ALL of
the once-mighty American industries (rubber, steel, autos, electronics, etc, etc. – namely unions. Those millions of jobs he’s trying to save are the same ones that have srewed the consumer for the past half century. Americans have been avoiding Detroit
products for the past 50 years – it didn’t just start happening. This is merely the inevitable end result. Obama is truly one dumb bunny , picking the pockets of some Americans to subsidize the unsupportable wages of his financial backers. See how the system works? It’s worked this way for the past 60 years. As corrupt as the Cook county crowd of which Obama is a part. Why can’t thi country elect an honest person whoalso posses a brain? No wonder Obama is hiding his college record from the public.
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February 25th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
Hey look! Lyle posted again. I’m surprised this political post didn’t blow up too much. Are people coming their senses?
Edit: After I hit “Submit Comment,” #87 became visible to me. Are people coming their senses? I should have known better. Damn hope!
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February 25th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
D.. Says:
February 25th, 2009 at 11:07 am
Starcast #41 v. reality.
Starcast says, “…Pumping good money after bad will not help. Here in Michigan we fund the schools in Detroit higher then most out state schools.” Well, I found this statement hard to believe and googled the subject. Came up with this:Detroit School Lacks Toilet Paper, Light Bulbs, Donations Accepted Beginning Jan. 12 .
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2160770/posts
thanks
D:
What the H are you talking about? Your link had nothing to do with the level of school funding. It showed how Detroit schools have wasted the HIGHER LEVEL of per pupil funding they recieve from the State Of Michigan. I don’t have time to find the link but if you like you can go to Michigan.org and look up school funding. Detroit is far above average for the state.
Thanks for proving my point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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February 25th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
Obama is right.
The car was not invented by the germans infact if you do carefull research there were many “home made” cars in that era.
So the real inventor will never be known. The germans want to think they were the first but they will never be the first. The first was some guy in his garage who hooked a steam generator to a horseless carrage it and it prob lasted a few miles and blew him up!
The only TRUE fact is henry ford made the mass produced auto infact inventing the first comerical automobile.
So obama needed to say comerical automobile.
The real invention was not the auto but the way is was manifactured or making a profit and putting people to work.
Makeing this country what it is.
So I think his statement is fair.
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February 25th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
#75 AZK Sanders,
Credit Default Swaps
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHXuUx0vT0Q
(smaller picture, better feed)
http://crooksandliars.com/tags/credit-default-swaps
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February 25th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
#84-Otto- first real highway system built by the Incas, then Germany.;-)
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February 25th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
#90 Zack henery
GM didn’t invent the E-REV either. But, if E-REV takes off for regular folks, GM gets a big nod.
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February 25th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Apparently he’s “generally” credited but it is certainly ambiguous not unlike many other inventions like the Telephone. An invention doesn’t necessarily mean it has to be built or even patented for that matter. Obama’s statement is true because it’s not unknown for something to be invented in multiple areas unbeknownst to other people in the world. Please see the American Inventor, George B. Selden. Frankly I think multiple people can be credited with inventing the automobile.
——————————————
IDIOT! Hey Obama, Karl Benz invented the automobile in Manheim Germany. He released the first commercial available vehicle in 1885 as the motorwagen.
What he should have said is that we invented the mass production of the automobile.
Duh.
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February 25th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
#82 Dave K.
I see your point. I’ll counter with…
The biggest population this country has ever supported is entering their 60’s now. Let’s get them on trains instead of driving themselves for four boring hours across the desert. Then, fewer people will end up in the hospital, fewer cars will spew emmissions, and the Las Vegas economy will pick up. Vegas generates a lot of economic activity.
All kidding aside, I’m sure there are many arguments why dollars should flow in a particular direction. Picking one direction over another will produce a lot of second-guessing. The best decision is not always apparent at decision time. Sometimes you gotta roll the dice.
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February 25th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
An Update for 54# D and mine at 89
Here is a link that shows Detroit gets above average per pupil funding and of course as your link showed they are failing any way. They recieve a higher amount in the base funding then most (not all) plus they get extra funding.
http://detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080723/SPECIAL01/80723001&appSession=017151532476245
Thanks again for proving my point giving more money to a bad school system will fix nothing.
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February 25th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
#75 AZK Sanders
I’m not Jim, but, hopefully these links will help:
http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/portfolio/2008/11/11/The-End-of-Wall-Streets-Boom
Or for something short and to the point:
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/09/aig_in_30_seconds_or_less.html
and
http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/09/what_happened_at_lehman_in_30.html
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February 25th, 2009 at 3:02 pm
I think Obamas right. Support the industry to get EVs rolling and then pull the plug if the american auto makers cant keep up with the rest. But as long as the EV revolution takes off in 2010 the bailouts will be worth it up to that point. After that kill them all.
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February 25th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
too much political claptrap in these posts… let’s stick to the volt, please.
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February 25th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
Just a thought…do you think GM will make the Volt powerplant available as a crate motor like they do with their ICE’s? would create a nice cottage industry to convert old autos. Would love to convert an old Opel GT.
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February 25th, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Energy is one of the right priorities, but he completely forgot:
Water
Housing
Credit / Capital crunch
Health Care and Education are just domestic spending programs will little ROI – elderly health care is a poor investment with no payback other than political, and our education system doesn’t teach individuals how to create and conserve wealth, which got us into this mess – instead it teaches people to vote and unionize to get money, not create wealth in a sustainable manner from the natural resources around us.
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February 25th, 2009 at 5:07 pm
#101 Jason M. Hendler Says: Energy is one of the right priorities, but he completely forgot:
…
Credit / Capital crunch
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I watched the presidential address this morning, and I belive he covered the credit crunch very well.
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February 25th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
#101 Jason M. Hendler Says: … and our education system doesn’t teach individuals how to create and conserve wealth,
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Huh? What school did you go to?
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February 25th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
#67 Jaime said, “Some of us worry about our families first and living within our means … So count me among those that would indeed purchase a BYD if it was cheaper.”
If you were really living within your means, you would not have luxuries that you cannot afford (like children and electric cars). Unfortunately, your myopic and narcissistic attitude is rampant in America today. This frustrates me, because it is destroying our economy and our environment.
I care about how my actions affect others. I believe there are things that are more important in life than just satisfying my short term self interest. I will not compromise my principles just to get a good deal on a product from a country that does not trade fairly.
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February 25th, 2009 at 5:36 pm
#104 Bob G
I am happy to hear that you will not compromise your principles just to get a good deal on a product from the US, a country that does not trade fairly.
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Jim in PA #23
I agree to some extent but there is a movement to import directly. For example, a large casino operator bought ALL of the lighting for their Las Vegas casino directly from China. Who would go after who? For large retail chains your idea is fine but for small businesses and direct business there needs to be some type of accountability in China. Also, poor quality and safety issues are only part of the problem. There is virtually no protection of intellectual property there and those products find their way too easily here (more so into other countries).
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
#105 BobG said If you were really living within your means, you would not have luxuries that you cannot afford (like children and electric cars). Unfortunately, your myopic and narcissistic attitude is rampant in America today. This frustrates me, because it is destroying our economy and our environment.”
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Children are not luxuries. Think again, please.
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February 25th, 2009 at 9:59 pm
To all you Republicans out there.
Obama and the democrats won!
He is trying to get the Volt and battery business going
in America.
This means Jobs,Jobs,and more Jobs.
Forget your stupid protectionism statements
and lets get this electrification of America going.
And for Christ sakes… Quit Crying!
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
hi ThombDbhomb #96,
“All kidding aside”
________________________
The Vegas to Disneyland drunkard express railway. Sounds like a good idea. Guests can get real drunk because they don’t need to drive. And if they lose everything we’ll comp a train ride back home. Oh, don’t worry about the occasional earthquake, we’ll have plenty of their money for track maintenance. Huzzah… bu ha ha ha haaa.
Oh, we won’t be able to afford that new hospital? That’s okay, if more boomers die we’ll save BIG on social security. Hey, we casinos got to survive too. Hey Mac, let’s take the Caddy over to Wynn’s for a lobster dinner.
It’s win win.
BTW: GM to announce earnings in the morning. No more bets please.
=D~
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
Hi Larry R #109,
“…all you Republicans out there…Forget your stupid protectionism statements…”
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I am registered as “decline to state”. Obama was the better pick over McCain so I voted for him. Do I have some Republican views? Yes.
I had a stock jump 19.3% today because it “stands to benefit” from President Obama’s stimulus package. Why don’t I just jump up and down over the great news? Because America and the American tax payer is more important than my personal gain. I care about you.
=D~
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February 25th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
BillR1
Gee, I wonder if ACORN had anything to do with this?
ACORN is about as large as, and has about as much impact as it’s name implies.
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February 25th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
As is typical, President Obama’s speech last night was filled with exaggerations and half-truths that sound great. Fortunately, here’s an article that sheds some truth on the subject:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=6951948
President Obama’s popularity seems contingent on people’s willingness to accept everything he says at face value. He’s a great speaker and a brilliant mincer of words.
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February 26th, 2009 at 2:02 am
106. There is no such thing as fair trade in the real world. Says: “… the US, a country that does not trade fairly.”
If the USA is not trading fairly, then we are sure doing a poor job of cheating, because we still have massive trade deficits and our industries are disappearing. Maybe the Chinese can show us how to relax our environmental, labor, and intellectual property laws while restricting imports, subsidizing our industries, and manipulating our currency.
108. RB Says: “Children are not luxuries. Think again, please.”
I suppose I *need* to have children to preserve my precious legacy, even though I cannot afford them, even though millions of orphans need parents, and even though the planet already has three times the humans it can sustainably support.
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February 26th, 2009 at 5:52 am
Thursday February 26, 5:12 am ET
Royal Bank of Scotland posts huge loss for 2008, unveils restructuring program.
LONDON (AP) — The Royal Bank of Scotland posted an annual loss of 24.14 billion pounds ($34.4 billion) — the biggest in British corporate history — and unveiled a massive restructuring plan on Thursday that will offload many of its international businesses.
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Interesting, last week I heard “TV pro traders” giving RBS-PCL a buy. Saying, “looks attractive”. They said the same thing about Citi last October. “I think there’s room on the upside”. Has since lost 70% of it’s value.
Be very careful, these are treacherous times in the trading pit.
=D~
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February 26th, 2009 at 7:42 am
#114 Bob G responds to an earlier comment by RB (me):
108. RB Says: “Children are not luxuries. Think again, please.” Bob G replies:
“I suppose I *need* to have children to preserve my precious legacy, even though I cannot afford them, even though millions of orphans need parents, and even though the planet already has three times the humans it can “sustainably support.
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Mr G, please think again. My mother was the 7th of 8 in a family that had much love but hardly any material goods, and a similar story was true for my father. My own family made it ok but without much financial margin. Neither considered children luxuries but rather as gifts from God.
I’m sorry that you have the harsh views that you do. Your views are fortunately not representative of the views of humankind. In any event, it will be the case that as you grow old, it will be somebody’s children who will take care of you.
From a more global perspective, you write that “… the planet already has three times the humans it can sustainably support.” Actually the planet is supporting them quite well. The major cause of early mortality is AIDS and other diseases in parts of the world, which are not the fault of “the planet.” As to overall population, it now is reasonably stable. If there is an overall problem with population, it is population decline (not increase) in the developed countries.
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February 26th, 2009 at 9:08 am
#110 Dave K.
That seemed spiteful instead of insightful.
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February 26th, 2009 at 10:47 am
#114 Bob G
“the USA is not trading fairly, then we are sure doing a poor job of cheating”
That’s true, but that we are bad crooks is no excuse to become better crooks.
That’s like saying the government doesn’t work perfectly, getting elected to it so that you’re part of the problem, and then functioning incompetently to prove your point while you destroy from within. What positive outcome does that possibly accomplish? Don’t the perfect be the enemy of the good.
Perhaps instead, we could lead by positive example, and build (jobs, growing economy) a clean, competitive, livable 21st century efficient economy (it’s 9 years into it, time to get off our butts and actually do something). Wouldn’t that be novel, instead of our recent can’t do attitude and dragging our feet, kicking and screaming, towards a cleaner, healthier world for our grandchildren?
The last time we had a massive burst of creative innovation and commercial technology application in this country was 1913. Every hunderd years?
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February 26th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Rahid Amul:
“I love the word re-imagined. I believe with a blank check, anything can be done. ”
Well sure. If its all just a holygram. Rehab programs like to tell you that “With God – anything is possible.” What they mean is “With the right computer programming” anything “seems” possible.
When will we acknowledge the artifice of the entire enterprise? Or does that mean growing up?
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February 26th, 2009 at 8:42 pm
#116 RB Says: “Actually the planet is supporting them quite well. The major cause of early mortality is AIDS and other diseases …”
Right now, there are still enough resources to keep most of us alive. But species are going extinct at an accelerating rate, arable land is being paved over, resources are being depleted far faster than they are being replenished, and the temperature of the planet is rising. There are almost 7 billion humans, and demographers don’t expect it to level off until 10 billion. It’s quite obvious to me that this situation is not sustainable.
But then, maybe the goal isn’t for the human species to survive perpetually in a sustainable balance with our environment. Maybe the goal is to grab as much as we can get, party while we can, use it all up, then go extinct like the dinosaurs. If that’s the goal, then we are on the right path.
#118 There is no such thing as fair trade in the real world. Says: ” … but that we are bad crooks is no excuse to become better crooks.”
I gave examples of how other countries give themselves advantages. What does the USA do that makes us unfair traders?
I think some of this is a cultural difference. My Asian friends tell me that negotiating over there isn’t about a win-win solution or fairness to all parties. It’s about politely but relentlessly pushing to get the absolute best deal for yourself. And if someone else lets you take advantage of them, then they are weak. Until we learn how to negotiate effectively in that environment, we will continue to decline.
Because candidate Obama said that he would negotiate *fair* trade deals, I voted for a democrat for the first time. I hope he doesn’t disappoint me.
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February 27th, 2009 at 8:46 pm
#120 Bob G continues his comments on excess human population with the comment Right now, there are still enough resources to keep most of us alive. But species are going extinct at an accelerating rate, arable land is being paved over, resources are being depleted far faster than they are being replenished, and the temperature of the planet is rising. There are almost 7 billion humans, and demographers don’t expect it to level off until 10 billion. It’s quite obvious to me that this situation is not sustainable.
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It may be helpful to examine the UN population projections for the next 50 years. Their low-variant projection is widely considered to be a dispassionate forecast. The numbers from years 2000 to 2050 are (for age group 0-4, world population, in millions)
621 624 578 547 516 503 …332
This trend is more indicative of a collapsing population than an exploding one.
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March 1st, 2009 at 12:26 pm
#121 RB says, “It may be helpful to examine the UN population projections …”
Fascinating! Thanks for pointing that out. Perhaps I am oversimplifying the situation.
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