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	<title>Comments on: Has Hydrogen Run Out of Gas?</title>
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	<link>http://gm-volt.com/2009/02/16/has-hydrogen-run-out-of-gas/</link>
	<description>Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt.</description>
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		<title>By: Auto Blog</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2009/02/16/has-hydrogen-run-out-of-gas/#comment-102370</link>
		<dc:creator>Auto Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 02:25:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1523#comment-102370</guid>
		<description>Great read - keep up the great work!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great read &#8211; keep up the great work!</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Robinson</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2009/02/16/has-hydrogen-run-out-of-gas/#comment-96752</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 07:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1523#comment-96752</guid>
		<description>Hydrogen fuel cell cars are a much better idea than battery electric
ones.  Hydrogen fuel cell cars, no matter how you decide to store
the hydrogen on them, can be refueled in minutes.  With
expensive platinum going away and being replaced by carbon nanotubes which are much cheaper, fuel cells are going to sharply
drop in price.  Carbon nanotube electrodes are more resilient than
platinum, so the 50k mile ceiling for fuel cells is going to be breached.

It is not necessary to use electricity to get hydrogen, it just happens
to be a popular and well understood method.  Hydrogen can be
retrieved via bacterial action given the right conditions.  Another
option is reforming biofuels, saves the trouble of having to ship
hydrogen.  An area the size of Texas if algae is used to produce
biofuels can replace all the gasoline that is used in the U.S. currently.  Even if hydrogen gas is transported, there is a pipeline
technology for $500k a mile that will work.  

Go to safe hydrogen&#039;s web site, they have a chemical slurry that could be used to store and distribute hydrogen both safely and efficiently.  The slurry can be pumped into cars instead of hydrogen gas and the left over hydroxide pumped out for reprocessing.  
The left over for magnesium hydride slurry is  milk of magnesia.  Mixing the slurry with water releases the hydrogen.  The slurry fuel tank only needs to be 20% larger than the typical gas tank for a fuel cell car to have a decent range.

High pressure hydrogen tanks are safer than large Lithium ION
batteries when it comes to explosions.  The Hindenburg didn&#039;t
explode because of hydrogen, it exploded because the skin
was coated in rocket fuel.

The Toyota FCHV Highlander can go 500+ miles on a single load
of 10k PSI hydrogen.  It was tested on the Alaskan Alcan highway.

Fuel cell car technology has progressed to the point where affordable vehicles can be manufactured given high enough
volume production.  The problem is, no refueling infrastructure.
The Magnesium Hydride Slurry I mentioned can be transported
on existing gasoline tanker trucks with a minimum amount of
modification.  The slurry won&#039;t ignite even if you a apply an open
propane flame to it.  If bacteria is used to get hydrogen, it&#039;ll take
some electricity to make the slurry but nowhere near what it takes
to do electrolysis.  The benefit of fuel cell cars having a system
on them to reform slurry is that existing fuel infrastructure will
work.  It costs some electricity wise to make slurry, but I think
the benefits of it outweigh that cost.

Hydrogen has to be manufactured.  Repeat, hydrogen is not an
optional substance.  Hydrogen is needed to make gasoline and
it is needed to create fertilizer and it is needed in the food industry.

High pressure hydrogen tanks can take a bullet and not explode.
They are safe.  The car companies seem to think these high
pressure tanks are simple, unfortunately it is difficult to refuel
high pressure tanks if you don&#039;t have a compressor.  Refueling
with Magnesium Hydride Slurry would be easier.  Magnesium
Hydride Slurry has the consistency of latex paint.

If 25% of cars in the U.S. ran on Magnesium Hydride Slurry, it
would be affordable to manufacture and distribute it.  The electricity
to make slurry can be collected in desert regions via solar panels.
Death valley would be a good place to locate large solar power
farms.  The hydrogen for the slurry can be collected via bacteria
from waste water or sea water.

Lithium ION batteries have a tendency to explode which only gets
worse as they get larger.  It takes hours, not minutes, to recharge
large Lithium ION batteries.  There is not enough Lithium in the world to replace all conventional gasoline powered automobiles 
with hybrids.  The hybrid is not a solution to the problem of
dependence on fossil fuel.  Unfortunately, EV&#039;s and E-REVS are
a distraction from the real solution to dependence on fossil fuel
for transportation which is fuel cell car using hydrogen gas.

Please check out the following sites to educate yourself about
hydrogen:

http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com
http://www.hydrogendiscoveries.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hydrogen fuel cell cars are a much better idea than battery electric<br />
ones.  Hydrogen fuel cell cars, no matter how you decide to store<br />
the hydrogen on them, can be refueled in minutes.  With<br />
expensive platinum going away and being replaced by carbon nanotubes which are much cheaper, fuel cells are going to sharply<br />
drop in price.  Carbon nanotube electrodes are more resilient than<br />
platinum, so the 50k mile ceiling for fuel cells is going to be breached.</p>
<p>It is not necessary to use electricity to get hydrogen, it just happens<br />
to be a popular and well understood method.  Hydrogen can be<br />
retrieved via bacterial action given the right conditions.  Another<br />
option is reforming biofuels, saves the trouble of having to ship<br />
hydrogen.  An area the size of Texas if algae is used to produce<br />
biofuels can replace all the gasoline that is used in the U.S. currently.  Even if hydrogen gas is transported, there is a pipeline<br />
technology for $500k a mile that will work.  </p>
<p>Go to safe hydrogen&#8217;s web site, they have a chemical slurry that could be used to store and distribute hydrogen both safely and efficiently.  The slurry can be pumped into cars instead of hydrogen gas and the left over hydroxide pumped out for reprocessing.<br />
The left over for magnesium hydride slurry is  milk of magnesia.  Mixing the slurry with water releases the hydrogen.  The slurry fuel tank only needs to be 20% larger than the typical gas tank for a fuel cell car to have a decent range.</p>
<p>High pressure hydrogen tanks are safer than large Lithium ION<br />
batteries when it comes to explosions.  The Hindenburg didn&#8217;t<br />
explode because of hydrogen, it exploded because the skin<br />
was coated in rocket fuel.</p>
<p>The Toyota FCHV Highlander can go 500+ miles on a single load<br />
of 10k PSI hydrogen.  It was tested on the Alaskan Alcan highway.</p>
<p>Fuel cell car technology has progressed to the point where affordable vehicles can be manufactured given high enough<br />
volume production.  The problem is, no refueling infrastructure.<br />
The Magnesium Hydride Slurry I mentioned can be transported<br />
on existing gasoline tanker trucks with a minimum amount of<br />
modification.  The slurry won&#8217;t ignite even if you a apply an open<br />
propane flame to it.  If bacteria is used to get hydrogen, it&#8217;ll take<br />
some electricity to make the slurry but nowhere near what it takes<br />
to do electrolysis.  The benefit of fuel cell cars having a system<br />
on them to reform slurry is that existing fuel infrastructure will<br />
work.  It costs some electricity wise to make slurry, but I think<br />
the benefits of it outweigh that cost.</p>
<p>Hydrogen has to be manufactured.  Repeat, hydrogen is not an<br />
optional substance.  Hydrogen is needed to make gasoline and<br />
it is needed to create fertilizer and it is needed in the food industry.</p>
<p>High pressure hydrogen tanks can take a bullet and not explode.<br />
They are safe.  The car companies seem to think these high<br />
pressure tanks are simple, unfortunately it is difficult to refuel<br />
high pressure tanks if you don&#8217;t have a compressor.  Refueling<br />
with Magnesium Hydride Slurry would be easier.  Magnesium<br />
Hydride Slurry has the consistency of latex paint.</p>
<p>If 25% of cars in the U.S. ran on Magnesium Hydride Slurry, it<br />
would be affordable to manufacture and distribute it.  The electricity<br />
to make slurry can be collected in desert regions via solar panels.<br />
Death valley would be a good place to locate large solar power<br />
farms.  The hydrogen for the slurry can be collected via bacteria<br />
from waste water or sea water.</p>
<p>Lithium ION batteries have a tendency to explode which only gets<br />
worse as they get larger.  It takes hours, not minutes, to recharge<br />
large Lithium ION batteries.  There is not enough Lithium in the world to replace all conventional gasoline powered automobiles<br />
with hybrids.  The hybrid is not a solution to the problem of<br />
dependence on fossil fuel.  Unfortunately, EV&#8217;s and E-REVS are<br />
a distraction from the real solution to dependence on fossil fuel<br />
for transportation which is fuel cell car using hydrogen gas.</p>
<p>Please check out the following sites to educate yourself about<br />
hydrogen:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com</a><br />
<a href="http://www.hydrogendiscoveries.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.hydrogendiscoveries.com</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dean</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2009/02/16/has-hydrogen-run-out-of-gas/#comment-96657</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 07:21:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1523#comment-96657</guid>
		<description>I do not want another car that uses fuel that the oil barons can manufacture, monopolize, and enslave us with. My god people, do you not realize that if we develop electric vehicles, the electricity you put into the car could eventually be produced on your own roof. Using the current electric grid an EV typically gets 5 to 10 times the distance from $1.00 worth of elec. then a gas car can get from $1.00 worth of gas. Think about it, that’s an 80% to 90% savings.

The problem is that no self-respecting (greedy) investor (who’s only interest is making as much money as possible at any cost) is going to put money into a product that once sold gives no more return (I.E. EV’s with batteries, and solar panels) not when they can invest in, and promote an auto that requires a fuel (I.E. gas, hydrogen, ethanol,). A fuel that the car owner has no choice but to buy from them, increasing their profits significantly.

If you would like to take the time and effort to process the elec. from your roof or the grid into highly explosive hydrogen first, and then put that into your car, then that is your prerogative. As for me, I would rather save the effort and the loss of energy from the conversion process (about 2/3rds), and just place the elec. straight into the car as is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not want another car that uses fuel that the oil barons can manufacture, monopolize, and enslave us with. My god people, do you not realize that if we develop electric vehicles, the electricity you put into the car could eventually be produced on your own roof. Using the current electric grid an EV typically gets 5 to 10 times the distance from $1.00 worth of elec. then a gas car can get from $1.00 worth of gas. Think about it, that’s an 80% to 90% savings.</p>
<p>The problem is that no self-respecting (greedy) investor (who’s only interest is making as much money as possible at any cost) is going to put money into a product that once sold gives no more return (I.E. EV’s with batteries, and solar panels) not when they can invest in, and promote an auto that requires a fuel (I.E. gas, hydrogen, ethanol,). A fuel that the car owner has no choice but to buy from them, increasing their profits significantly.</p>
<p>If you would like to take the time and effort to process the elec. from your roof or the grid into highly explosive hydrogen first, and then put that into your car, then that is your prerogative. As for me, I would rather save the effort and the loss of energy from the conversion process (about 2/3rds), and just place the elec. straight into the car as is.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2009/02/16/has-hydrogen-run-out-of-gas/#comment-96280</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 18:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1523#comment-96280</guid>
		<description>185 jeffhre Says: Did you look at the video above and see the price of that stuff! And this is without any demand for burning it in ICE’s or fuel cells.

Air Products says they can deliver Hydrogen via truck for $3.00 per kg and by pipe for $2.70.  They expect the price to go down from there.

An earlier post of mine put it this way - How about a gas station that uses photovoltaics, combined with nanotechnology to efficiently create H2 via electolysis then store it onsite. That is more then doable in the next 5 years let alone 10 or as some suggest 15.

My reference to the early days of gasoline referred to a lack of infrastructure and not throwing gas in the rivers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>185 jeffhre Says: Did you look at the video above and see the price of that stuff! And this is without any demand for burning it in ICE’s or fuel cells.</p>
<p>Air Products says they can deliver Hydrogen via truck for $3.00 per kg and by pipe for $2.70.  They expect the price to go down from there.</p>
<p>An earlier post of mine put it this way &#8211; How about a gas station that uses photovoltaics, combined with nanotechnology to efficiently create H2 via electolysis then store it onsite. That is more then doable in the next 5 years let alone 10 or as some suggest 15.</p>
<p>My reference to the early days of gasoline referred to a lack of infrastructure and not throwing gas in the rivers.</p>
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		<title>By: jeffhre</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2009/02/16/has-hydrogen-run-out-of-gas/#comment-96172</link>
		<dc:creator>jeffhre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 09:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1523#comment-96172</guid>
		<description>Pragmatic 184 &quot;Else we end up sugar shocked, fat, smeared in fudge sauce, lying at the trough of the chocolate factory.&quot;
________________________________
Brilliant summary, nice segue too. Wow, Mad Max meets Willy Wonka, that&#039;s even better than Predator v. Alien.

My take is it&#039;s kinda like Bill Paxton screaming in the movie Aliens, &quot; We&#039;re all gonna die&quot;. There&#039;s a lot more talent expended there than is required for a standard horror flick (or blog). How that relates to population growth and carrying capacity should be your next task, delivered in terms of popular movie allegory of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pragmatic 184 &#8220;Else we end up sugar shocked, fat, smeared in fudge sauce, lying at the trough of the chocolate factory.&#8221;<br />
________________________________<br />
Brilliant summary, nice segue too. Wow, Mad Max meets Willy Wonka, that&#8217;s even better than Predator v. Alien.</p>
<p>My take is it&#8217;s kinda like Bill Paxton screaming in the movie Aliens, &#8221; We&#8217;re all gonna die&#8221;. There&#8217;s a lot more talent expended there than is required for a standard horror flick (or blog). How that relates to population growth and carrying capacity should be your next task, delivered in terms of popular movie allegory of course.</p>
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