California-based Tesla Motors is a pioneer in the electric car arena. They first brought the 2-seat electric Roadster into production in late 2008 and now have over 200 cars on the road.
The company is known to have inspired Bob Lutz to start the Volt program.
Tesla also has had plans to build an electric sedan called the Model S. The vehicle’s future has been uncertain due to the company’s economic uncertainties. We recently heard their California plant was delayed, and that they had asked for $450 million in US government loans to help them build it.
Today, Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk announced that the company has was advised they would receive $350 Million in government advanced technology loans, and that they expect to receive funding within the next 4 to 5 months.
Furthermore he announced that the company will be publicly unveiling a road-ready prototype of the Model S on March 26th at his SpaceX rocket factory. He indicated that the government funds "will keep us on track for production to start in 2011."
Musk also noted that the company is set to become profitable in the middle of this year mainly because of the fact that Roadster production capacity of 1000 cars are already on backorder for the rest of the year.
Per Musk "My goal for Tesla from the beginning was to do whatever we can to help end the world’s addiction to oil. We’ll do that by making cars directly, helping other automakers develop cars, and serving as an example to the rest of the industry."
And oh yeah, yours truly will be taking home a production Roadster for a one day test-drive this weekend!
Full letter below:
Tesla to be Profitable by Mid Year
The $40M financing round completed in December was twice the amount Tesla needed to reach profitability. Moving forward two months later, we remain on track with our cost reductions and production ramp, so it appears highly likely that Tesla will meet the goal promised to those investors of becoming profitable by mid year.
The main reason for this confidence is that Tesla is already in the fortunate position of being sold out until early November, something few automakers can claim, and will soon be sold out of all 2009 production. While we have had some cancellations due to buyers experiencing personal financial difficulties, new orders continue to flow in every week from the United States and Europe. We have now produced more than 200 Roadsters for customers and there are more than 1,000 customers still awaiting delivery.
Due to our order backlog, it seems that owning a Roadster can be a good investment. Last September, as the financial and real estate markets began crashing, a Roadster was sold at the Sonoma Paradiso in California wine country for $160,000, well above the current list price of $109,000. Many Roadster owners who have taken delivery of their cars have already decided to purchase a second Roadster or Roadster Sport because they like the first one so much.
The continued strong demand is driven by the fact that the Tesla Roadster has no direct competitors. It is faster than almost any sports car on the market (our Roadster beat a Porsche GT3 on the Top Gear test track) and yet uses less energy and has a smaller carbon footprint than a Toyota Prius, even if you assume the worst possible case where all electricity comes from coal.
I expect sales demand to strengthen further as this awareness grows. After all, what’s the point of driving another exotic sports car when it is slower than a Tesla and damages the environment? Already, the Tesla Roadster is the car of choice among the technology, business and Hollywood A lists – this year’s Academy Awards will be a lineup of Teslas – and we have never had to give a discount to anyone.
Many customers also appreciate the fact that profit from their purchase goes towards helping Tesla develop more affordable, mass market electric cars. The same cannot be said for those who buy gas-guzzling sports cars from other automakers.
And owners aren’t the only ones impressed with the Roadster. Road & Track was the first auto enthusiast magazine to perform third-party, instrumented testing on the Roadster; they were “pleased to see its extravagant claims confirmed.” The Washington Post’s Warren Brown gushed, “Wheeeeeee! If this is the future of the automobile, I want it.” Dan Neil of the Los Angeles Times had perhaps the most colorful description we’ve seen to describe the Roadster’s scorching acceleration: “God has grabbed me by the jockstrap and fired me off his thumb, rubber band-style. Wow.” And we’ve also had a torrent of reviews in Europe, where deliveries begin this summer – including a Le Monde story with our favorite headline: “Le chic électrique.”
Unveiling the Model S and DOE funding
On March 26th, at the Tesla design studio located within the SpaceX rocket factory, we will unveil a street-drivable prototype of the Model S four door sedan. Our objective with the Model S was to create one of the most functional, intuitive and beautiful vehicles on the road. Tesla Roadster customers and select VIPs invited to the event will have an opportunity to judge for themselves firsthand whether we have succeeded.
Regarding funding, I am excited to report that the Department of Energy informed Tesla last week that they expect to disburse funds from our $350M Model S loan application within four to five months. The Obama administration has thankfully made it a top priority to move quickly on the Advanced Technology Vehicles Manufacturing loan program, as this will both generate high quality jobs in the near term and lay the groundwork for a better environment in the future.
This will keep us on track for production to start in 2011. As a gesture of gratitude for their early support, Roadster owners will receive a $10,000 discount off the price of the Model S Signature series and automatically be first in line for the sedan.
Daimler Partnership
We announced last month at the Detroit auto show that we have been working with Daimler (maker of Mercedes) for over a year to create an electric version of the Smart car. Daimler has contracted with Tesla to build the battery packs and chargers for an initial run of 1,000 cars. Pending the results of that test fleet, the relationship could expand to tens of thousands of cars per year.
This is a very significant endorsement of both Tesla’s technology and our financial strength by one of the world’s most respected automotive companies. Daimler would not feel comfortable depending on us for this program if they felt that either our technology was easily replicated or that we were in financial danger.
Daimler was the first company to commercialize the internal combustion engine and has become a benchmark for automotive quality and reliability. It is an honor that they chose to work with Tesla after a thorough investigation of other options. The deal is likely to be the first in a series of strategic partnerships between Tesla and other auto manufacturers to engineer and produce electric cars.
My goal for Tesla from the beginning was to do whatever we can to help end the world’s addiction to oil. We’ll do that by making cars directly, helping other automakers develop cars, and serving as an example to the rest of the industry. Although the Roadster is still the only highway capable production electric car for sale in the United States, it was very encouraging to see that the central theme of the Detroit auto show this year was electric transportation. J
New Tesla Sales & Service Centers to Open
We have reached agreement on Tesla store leases in Chicago and London’s Knightsbridge district, and we are close to finalizing locations in Manhattan, Miami, Seattle and Munich. All six facilities will open this year, and in the following months we’ll provide details about individual store opening parties. These new stores will offer prospective customers the chance to see and drive the Roadster in person – and they underscore Tesla’s commitment to looking at the auto industry with fresh eyes. Unlike traditional franchise dealerships, Tesla owns its stores and controls the customer experience. We think you’ll agree that our stores are a refreshing change from the way most people have bought cars for the last 50 years.
Roadster Sport
Tesla is now taking orders for the Roadster Sport, an even higher performance car that does 0 to 60 mph in 3.7 seconds. It comes with a hand-wound stator and increased winding density for lower resistance and higher peak torque.
The tires are upgraded to Yokohama Ultra High Performance and the suspension features adjustable dampers and anti-roll bars tuned to the driver’s preference – allowing for both softer and firmer rides than the standard Roadster. Deliveries are expected to begin in late June.
Upgraded Roadster Interior and Other Options
Tesla will soon offer an Executive Leather Interior that raises the level of luxury in the Roadster’s cabin. We are also offering a Clear Carbon Fiber Exterior Package to add an additional level of sportiness and highlight the lightweight material that makes up the Roadster’s body. Currently, the only exterior clear carbon fiber touch on the base model is the roll bar cover – but many customers and fans have asked if we could reveal more of this exotic, braided material. These packages will be available starting in June.
Battery Replacement Program
One of the top questions customers ask about the Roadster is, “How long will the battery last and what will it cost to replace?” Tesla engineers have determined that a Tesla battery pack should last approximately seven years or over 100,000 miles under normal use.
Customers may pay $12,000, €10,000 or £9,000 up front and in return receive a replacement battery pack after seven years. Customers will also have the option of replacing the pack earlier at a premium or later for a partial refund. With the low production volume of the Tesla Roadster, the current replacement price of the pack is almost three times that number. The main reason for the relatively low cost up front — and why this is a smart purchase — is that we are arbitraging the relative cost of capital between Tesla and our typical customer.
Extended Warranty to Double Standard Period
Many customers have also asked to purchase an extended warranty. We now offer a doubling of the standard warranty, which means an additional 3 years and 36,000 miles or 60,000 kilometers, for $5,000, €4,000 or £3,800.
This covers everything on the car except the battery pack. Should the motor, power electronics, HVAC or any other major system need to be replaced, this will be money well spent, and it provides peace of mind to many customers.
Thanks for your support!
– Elon –
This entry was posted on Wednesday, February 11th, 2009 at 12:47 pm and is filed under General. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.
Feb 11th, 2009 (12:54 pm)Good luck to them. Henry Ford started out small, and he lowered the price of his product as production inreased.
5 grand is a bit much for an EXTENDED warranty but what the heck, the car cost 100 large anyway so it’s an expensive toy to begin with.
Am I first??????
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:00 pm)Go Tesla, Go Tesla, Go Tesla
Wooooo-hoooooo!
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:06 pm)Wait! Lyle, are you getting to test drive the Tesla? Did I read that correctly?
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:07 pm)You are going to be driving one this weekend! SWEEEEEEEETTTTT! So you’ve driven a Ford Focus EV at the Detroit auto show, you are in the running for a mini EV, are gonna drive the tesla, and GM still hasn’t let you drive the volt?
HEY GM, LET LYLE BORROW THE VOLT FOR A WEEKEND! Better yet, give him one of the early prototypes so he can document it on this site as well as give you valuable feedback.
Have fun with the test drive and try not to get whiplash from the acceleration
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:10 pm)Wow, Dr. Dennis;
When it comes to getting to drive EVs, you can sure get the attention of car companies with electric ambitions … except for GM, of course.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:12 pm)What is the new sedan going to cost?
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:13 pm)
Feb 11th, 2009 (1:16 pm)Very exciting news, I may have to put some money into my current vehicle so that it lasts another year or two. Was hoping to be in the market for a new vehicle sometime this year but as it seems all the new and exciting vehicles are coming out next year or into 2011.
Keep up the good work, I enjoy all the updates.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:21 pm)Nice. Going to have to add another EV to the spreadsheet for 2011. Gratz on the test drive, too!
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:21 pm)Lyle:
Be sure to video that first drive. I want to see if you have a “Tesla Moment” at the start, and the signature “Tesla Grin” when you get back.
Enjoy!
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:22 pm)(Heavy sigh).
After reading that article, I so wish I could afford to own a Tesla Roadster. Alas, it is not too be.
(Heavy sigh)
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:22 pm)Expensive, and limited range without a lifeline. Don’t go more than 115 miles away from your charging location, or you’ll run out of juice. The Tesla sedan is expected to cost $60,000. Future generations of the Volt will also get at least 200 miles range, but will have the engine for unlimited range. Tesla’s Roadster is great for the affluent greenies who want to tool around Beverly Hills, but the Volt will be a car for the masses–with an engine as the safety net.
Lyle better wear old underwear, though, because the car screams!!
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:25 pm)Re: the Roadster Sport – 0 to 60 mph in 3.7 seconds…new definition of crotch rocket. Brings to mind a Batman and Robin cartoon with the giant word ballons – ZAPPPP!!! ZOOOOMMM!!
And Tesla says all that fun comes with a lower carbon footprint than a Prius.
That is progress…Next few years should be fun once again for the carguys in the crowd.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:35 pm)Amazing how a little startup company like Tesla, can just seemingly produce EVs (and spec cars) at will.
What you want a ‘road working prototype’ of the Model S? Sure, here you go, enjoy…all too easy, lol.
I’m naturally a skeptical/not easily impressed kind of person (shocker), but I have to admit that Tesla has far exceeded my expectations. Acquiring gov’t funding can be a skill of itself…I didn’t know they had it in them. (+1)
They still aren’t major auto…but today they are officially competition nonetheless. If it is available here in Canada before the Volt (and I can get it serviced somewhere), I wouldn’t hesitate to buy it. Actually if I had the choice between the two…and the Model S is within 15K, I take the Tesla. (I’ve heard numbers from 50K to 65K…hopefully we get some clarity on that as well on March 26th).
http://dvice.com/pics/tesla_model_s.jpg
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:36 pm)Wow a Roadster test drive, unbeeweevwabwul! Great job Lyle.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:40 pm)YOU’ve got a TESLA for a test drive?!?!
Do you make house calls Dr?
If not, prepare for many uninvited guests!
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:41 pm)If it is good policy to tax the working class to enable Tesla to produce a $60,000 car, is there any business at all who should not be subsidized?
Tiffany’s? Prada? Cartier?
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Feb 11th, 2009 (1:42 pm)With 3.7 second acceleration, the Tesla will feel like it weighs 1000 lbs total.
Two concerns with something this fast. Strong braking and high insurance premiums. Still exciting news on the EV move forward.
I’m more than a little surprised the GM gang hasn’t offered a Volt test drive to our host. You make a first impression just once.
=D~
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Feb 11th, 2009 (2:02 pm)Our Tesla driving envy is off the charts.
Please tell us how the ride is Lyle!
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Feb 11th, 2009 (2:04 pm)#18 Dave K. =D~ Says:
“I’m more than a little surprised the GM gang hasn’t offered a Volt test drive to our host. You make a first impression just once.”
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I was not aware GM had a working prototype Volt to offer such a ride.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (2:07 pm)#19. jabroni
I think they’re counting on that.
They may have seen the demographic makeup (and high earnings) of the followers of this site, who by definition have already shown interest in electric cars.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (2:16 pm)657 Day’s until launch….
Just add another 300 for the Model S sedan…
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Feb 11th, 2009 (2:31 pm)#6 ROBERT M. SPERRY Says: “What is the new sedan going to cost?”
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“For $49,999, you and your family can drive an all-electric sedan off the lot, says Tesla Motors CEO Elon Musk.
Musk, speaking at the Tesla dealership in Menlo Park, California, said that the price of the Model S, the five-seater, four-door all-electric passenger car, will be $57,499. The government, however, will give $7,500 in tax credits to people who buy low-emission electric cars. That makes the price $49,999.”
http://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/tesla-coughs-up-sedan-price-details-on-economy-car-5344.html
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Feb 11th, 2009 (2:33 pm)hi statik #20,
“I was not aware GM had a working prototype Volt to offer such a ride.”
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We know GM has dozens of working Cruze E-REV from the Bob Lutz report (of 08/08?) and also from the D.C. images. And we have seen several production Volt photos from the GM battery lab.
I still think the Volt is the way to go. You can have EV flash at a high price. Or EV mundane with a top speed of 40 mph. An after tax credit price of $32,000 will be an attractive option to both Tesla and Prius shoppers.
BTW: Family is heading back to Vegas the end of the month. Wife and I both came back winners last time. And we enjoyed Donny and Marie at the Flamingo Hilton. Marie came up to our booth and shook hands with us. Good times.
Still going to the WSOP second week in July? We may run into each other one day.
=D~
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Feb 11th, 2009 (2:36 pm)http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/01/14/tesla_unveils_sport/
Nice pic. here. Good info. ‘leccy Tech’
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Feb 11th, 2009 (2:38 pm)#20 statik Says: “I was not aware GM had a working prototype Volt to offer such a ride.”
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GM has a working prototype with all Volt production intent parts, but in a Chevy Cruze body. That’s what Wagoner drove to the senate hearings. I believe this is also what Chris Paine got to test-drive.
http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/21/who-drove-the-electric-car-chris-paine-drives-volt-mule/
In any case, it’s a shame that Lyle hasn’t gotten a Volt mule test drive.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (2:45 pm)Loaning money to Elon Musk gives new meaning to the term “liar loan”.
(With all apologizes to those whose “state it” income was only 4x their “make it” income).
Hopefully Tesla won’t miss the cost of building this car by $40K!
Just to be clear, I think it’s great that smaller companies are able to get the capital they need to make new vehicles. It’s just that in Elon’s case it seems to me that it’s the old Q&A:
Q: How can you tell when Elon is lying?
A: When his lips are moving.
IMHO of course.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (2:46 pm)#17 Tom H
Don’t be so rigid in your ideology. Nascent technology costs. But, it could be a benefit to society. I suspect that electric cars will not always be the rich’s playthings.
Lyle-
Don’t drive the Tesla. How will the Volt seem after you’ve driven a Tesla Roadster?
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Feb 11th, 2009 (2:54 pm)Wow, the Smug air quality has really continued to worsen for silicone valley.
Too bad Tesla has burned through hundreds of millions of dollars and delivered 200 cars. With an additional 350 million in tax payers’ dollars Tesla might be about to deliver several hundred over the next 4-5 years. That is so awesome, I’m so glad Obama is spending hundreds of billions of dollars on these types of worth while projects.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (3:05 pm)For the “where is all this clean electricity going to come from” crowd:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/02/revisiting-duration-of-nuclear-power.html
Almost makes you wonder what else you could do with all that power. Something like … I don’t know … separating a certain gas from a certain liquid … Just kidding, Dave G!
Why wait for Volt/Tesla/[x]? Get a kit:
http://www.poulsenhybrid.com/
Anybody got experience with this, or with Hymotion?
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Feb 11th, 2009 (3:06 pm)ThombDbhomb #28,
“How will the Volt seem after you’ve driven a Tesla Roadster?”
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I had a test drive in a 427 69′ Chevy Camaro SS. This car was built and lightened. No rear seat and a fire extinguisher ready if needed. We went though a 1/4 tank of gas in about 15 minutes. It was a beautiful metallic blue with white stripes. I got over the test drive but will never forget it.
http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/camaro_ss_69.jpg
=D~
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Feb 11th, 2009 (3:11 pm)#23 Dave G says “The government, however, will give $7,500 in tax credits to people who buy low-emission electric cars. That makes the price $49,999.”
#24 Dave K says “An after tax credit price of $32,000 will be an attractive option to both Tesla and Prius shoppers.”
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I think we’re forgetting that the government’s tax credit does not come off the dealer price of the EV. Unless one is paying cash, $40K (for the Volt) or $50K (for the Tesla S) minus trade plus taxes and fees is what is being financed. Then when you pay your taxes, you’ll only get your tax rebate if you owe more than $7,500 (or plan a year in advance to owe $7,500).
This was confusing to me as well, until I posed the question in the forums and got a good reply from an accountant who sounds like they are familiar with the tax codes:
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2321
I suppose you can connect the two if you have enough money, but I just don’t see the tax credit as an incentive. It has to come off the bottom line at the dealership for me to call the Volt a $32,000 car.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (3:11 pm)#29 Bradyb
Your comment doesn’t seem to offer anything constructive. Can you start up a new auto company without some complications? Yes, Mr. Musk has some entrapanueral chutzpah. But, isn’t a pioneering spirit part of American business? Many silicone valley businesses have caused a revolution. Some of them had growing pains. Tesla is still in the game and making great contributions to the automotive industry.
You seem to have given up on Obama. I wish him well. Many are suffering.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (3:24 pm)#24 Dave K. =D~ Says
BTW: Family is heading back to Vegas the end of the month. Wife and I both came back winners last time. And we enjoyed Donny and Marie at the Flamingo Hilton. Marie came up to our booth and shook hands with us. Good times.
Still going to the WSOP second week in July? We may run into each other one day.
=D~
===========================
This is a good time of the year to head out to LV Dave. Enjoy your trip.
Actually, I just got a email for the ‘09 WSOP schedule a couple weeks ago. Day 1A for the main event is the same as this year– July 3rd @ the Rio. They plunked in a ‘media day’ between day 2 and 3.
I’m still planning on hitting it up. Are you going to try and head down as well? We could organize a Volt Nation 2/pokerfest get together, lol–although Vegas in July is a little toasty.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (3:28 pm)The Tesla is not for me, but have a FUN RIDE, Lyle!!!!!
Go GM! Go GM Volt Team!!!!
NPNS!
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Feb 11th, 2009 (3:32 pm)Referring to tesla as an advanced technology company is quite
a stretch. Their technollogy uses obsolete li ion batteries and is exorbitantly overpriced and useless for anything other than around town driving. The sedan’s driving range is a pitfully short. What’s really beyond the vail is bragging about a 200 unit production run and having order for a few hundred more. the effect of the Tesla roadster on anything, be it gas avoidance or carbon avoidance, is
zero. Tom Hanks and his brainless girlfriend may talk the big talk, but their effect on the environment is about as close to zero as one can get. And Hanks had to spend almost $80,000 to build a mini-car
to get around town in. Not exactly leading the way forward. Pure electric cars are practically worthless. A rich man’s idea of environmentalism. it’s easy to be green when you have chauffers and unlimited funds and extra cars sitting in the garage to pick up the slack.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (3:33 pm)No thanks. $49K for this and have to put down $12K for them to possibly ask for more $$$ after a while because of poor book keeping.
Nope. No thanks, it’s “Cost Prohibitive”.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (3:36 pm)Lyle said
And oh yeah, yours truly will be taking home a production Roadster for a one day test-drive this weekend!
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Lyle,
Congratulations; that is wonderful. I am envious, but looking forward to your full report. Maybe you can figure out how to get one for more than a day, I hope.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (3:52 pm)#29 Bradyb:
The smugness was the first thing that struck me too. I guess it goes with writing press releases.
Does anyone know how much, if any, of this Federal $$$ GM has gotten to develop the Volt? Ford for the electric Focus? Chrysler for its arguably vaporware PHEVs? At least the first two seem a lot more like real world options than the Tesla.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (4:03 pm)The Tesla web site allows residents of any place in the USA to order a Tesla (and many places outside the USA). It also takes orders for delivery when available, even though that is a year or more out.
That’s a lot more than can be said for the Volt. How is it that Tesla marketing is so far beyond GM marketing?
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Feb 11th, 2009 (4:04 pm)#28 & #32 ThombDbhomb:
I take your point. If it forces the industry forward, it is probably worth the cost. If a little smugness is part of the price we pay, oh well, what else is new? Not that I’m buying one in any case.
And I agree with you regarding Obama.
#37 CaptJackSparrow:
Yeah, me too.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (4:14 pm)Typical boondoggling by the greenie unconscious government. Tesla was formed, designed, and completed a Tesla roadster and then announced it was going into “mass production” and four years later has produced 200 Roadsters. That four years is the usual life cycle for a car model. Time for a model replacement.
So the $350 million dollar subsidy will propably let 200 Hollywood snobs with more money than brains, get their $100,000 WhiteBreads and the government chips in another $1,750,000 for each of their toys.
I just luv the Obama clowns without a clue. Its only our money…
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Feb 11th, 2009 (4:28 pm)Please note, Tesla is receiving
“$350 Million in government advanced technology loans”, the “snobs” are not receiving “subsidy”….there is a difference.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (4:28 pm)#9 noel park said:
Does anyone know how much, if any, of this Federal $$$ GM has gotten to develop the Volt? Ford for the electric Focus? Chrysler for its arguably vaporware PHEVs? At least the first two seem a lot more like real world options than the Tesla.
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Guess that depends on your prospective, heeh.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (4:34 pm)Tesla has been building cars for over a year and have only produced about 200. Wait a minute. I know this is exciting news to some, but let’s not get too carried away just yet. Only 200 cars is not a big deal. And those 200 kept getting delayed and pushed back and back in the production schedule. Now, if they can get the 1,000 or so that are currently booked produced this year I would think they are beginning to make some progress. But, even still, 1,200 cars produced in about 2 years is mighty poor performance. I know all of you get “jacked-up” every time Tesla is mentioned, but come on, guys. Be realistic here. Give Tesla credit where credit is due, but don’t act like they just rolled off the 1,000,0000th car.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (4:42 pm)From a stand point of being the best looking car, the Fisker kicks butt over the Tesla Model S, in my opinion. It just doesn’t have 4 doors like the Tesla. But the Fisker does have what we all say we like about the Volt – a range extender ICE plus better looks than the Volt. Pricey, yes, that too.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (4:53 pm)hi statik #34,
“you going to try and head down as well?”
__________________________________
My boss is going to need me around on July 4th. It’s a Saturday night and we’ll be very busy. Family is thinking of heading out there on July 12,13,14… , but not solid.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
financial news:
Wednesday February 11, 2009, 3:43 pm EST
SIOUX FALLS, South Dakota (AP) — Oil prices plummeted below $36 Wednesday on more evidence that U.S. storage facilities are bulging with unused crude.
Light, sweet crude for March delivery fell $1.99 to settle at $35.94 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.
Oil closed under $40 Monday for the first time in several weeks, and has closed lower every day since.
A weekly report from the Energy Information Administration showed that crude inventories jumped by 4.7 million barrels for the week ended Feb. 6. That easily surpassed the expectations of analysts surveyed by Platts, the energy information arm of McGraw-Hill Cos., who expected a boost of 3.4 million barrels.
Including last week’s build up, crude inventories have increased by more than 30 million barrels in the past five weeks.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Oil-prices-tumble-below-36-on-apf-14327551.html
_____________________________________
This headline should read:
Pump prices lower upon announcement that several highway rated electric vehicles will be available to the public within 2 years time.
=D~
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Feb 11th, 2009 (4:54 pm)@ all those that are feeling pick pocketed…
does any of you know the meaning of the word LOAN? If it weren’t for the founders of Tesla, who proved that electrics can be equal or better that ICE cars, there wouldn’t be such a massive movement towards the electrification of the automobile from the big car companies.
All those who will drive a electric / serial hybrid in a few years from now should thank Martin Eberhard…
@kent
could you please give us an example of advanced automotive technology? …
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Feb 11th, 2009 (4:55 pm)Actually, the Fisker Karma does have 4 doors. The Fisker Sunset Convertible only has two. The Karma is supposed to be out late 2009 but the convertible is in the concept stage and is slated to be out in 2011
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Feb 11th, 2009 (5:00 pm)#49 Michael D
Your are correct. I was looking at the convertible’s picture. That just makes the Fisker Karma that much more desirable over the Tesla Model S. Again, IMO.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (5:02 pm)“From a stand point of being the best looking car, the Fisker kicks butt over the Tesla Model S, in my opinion. It just doesn’t have 4 doors like the Tesla. But the Fisker does have what we all say we like about the Volt – a range extender ICE plus better looks than the Volt. Pricey, yes, that too.”
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The picture doesn’t represent an actual Tesla car, is just the photoshop + imagination of some guys…
so don’t judge the Model S upon a fake… wait until 26th of March when you will actually be able to see one…
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Feb 11th, 2009 (5:23 pm)#36 kent beuchert said – Their technollogy uses obsolete li ion batteries….
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OMG OMG OMG O—-M—-G, MY cell phone uses the same OBSOLETE batteries. I CANT have a cell phone using obsolete technology – I just CANT. Quick, Kent – what are the new cell phones using for batteries? Please hurry – I CANT be seen with yesterdays technology. They’ll look at me and point, and laugh – I just KNOW it. Please Kent – hurry. I CANT leave the house now – it’s just too embarassing. I NEED CUTTING EDGE TECH, or my life is worthless.
I’ll be over there – in that dark corner – huddled in a fetal position – telling myself it’s going to be OK – awaiting your reply.
Oh wait — he said “technollogy”, didn’t he? Whew! That was close! For a minute I thought…never mind what I thought. I’m OK now.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (5:42 pm)Most Dangerous Vehicles of 2009: From Forbes
Aveo,Colorado,Trailblazer,GMC Canyon,GMC envoy,Hummer H3
Suzuki Equator (GM Share)
PT cruiser,Dodge Nitro,Jeep Liberty,Jeep Wrangler
Ford ranger
Mazda B series
Hyundai accent
Kia Rio
Nissan Frontier
“http://www.forbes.com/2009/02/06/most-dangerous-vehicles-lifestyle-vehicles_0206_dangerous_vehicles_slide_17.html?thisSpeed=15000″
6 GM vehicles, 4 Chrysler, 1 Ford, 2 Hyundai/Kia, 1 Nissan, 1 Mazda, 1 Suzuki
Now we saw Nissan asking for Funds.
GM has to work on things to improve. If you check as Imports vs domestic etc you will understand how the perception comes and why they need to go for govt money. The halo volt is only one part. Please understand Toyota/Honda doesn’t have any vehicle listed in the above and you are competing with them.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (5:42 pm)I thought GM only has a few months to prove it’s “financially viable”.
Even if GM introduces the VOLT on time (late 2010), if the thing costs $40,000 to $50,000 before the $7,500 rebate, there will not be enough buyers to bring in the big bucks they need to stay alive.
GM is already months behind on the Camaro, which (other than trucks) is the only CAR generating any interest from Chevy shoppers right now, and probably the only car they can make any real money on for the foreseeable future.
The VOLT will be great when it gets here, but they need to start MAKING MONEY… and SOON.
Go CAMARO!!! http://www.my2010camaro.com
Go VOLT!!!
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Feb 11th, 2009 (5:55 pm)@The Grump 52
Nice…..lol
=op
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Feb 11th, 2009 (6:01 pm)Rant alert! – Sometimes I get fed up with partisan rhetoric devoid of substance, such as #42 stas peterson’s,
“I just luv the Obama clowns without a clue. Its only our money…”
Such negativity, such a losing attitude. If he has a clue, what is it? “Free” market? Tax cuts for the rich?
If he had any awareness of the real world, he might pick up on clues that the modern age’s swing towards conservatism didn’t foster an age of prosperity.
Bob Lutz used Tesla as motivation to pursue the Volt. Tesla, for all its warts, changed the game…and they are not done.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (6:15 pm)Lyle, Enjoy the acceleration, it should be fantastic. Be sure to tell us the easy way to climb out of the roadster. I got to sit in one in LA and have my photo taken. The showroom and repair bays are unique and remind me of Apple computer store quality.
I would love to own a Tesla Roadster, but range anxiety is the number one frustration. To experience all that power would be exciting, but not being able to take it across country is depressing. What is needed are electrical contacts on the bottom of the car that can power and charge the car while driving. A charging lane between major cities could eliminate range anxiety. The battery operation gets you to the freeway, then the charge lane recharges the car and powers it too. By the time you get to Vegas from LA, the car is ready for touring around town.
Enjoy the ride!
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Feb 11th, 2009 (6:22 pm)#52 the Grump
Man that is funny…
#55 Mark Z
I have an old Scalextric track that you would love…
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Feb 11th, 2009 (6:23 pm)The price for oil may have dropped below $40.00 / barrel but up here in Central Alberta, Canada, the price at the pumps just went up $.05 per liter (that’s 20 cents a gallon !)
who is raping who right now ??
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Feb 11th, 2009 (6:31 pm)At least Tesla are leading the way…
Its gotta be tough, having everyone watching, waiting to take their cheap shots.
Go Tesla and go GM. These guy’s have got guts.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (6:31 pm)How do I get on that waiting list? I’ll take a 5 passenger luxury sedan for $50k that’s all electric over the Volt in a heart beat.
Good on ‘em….maybe this’ll finally wake up the big 3.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (6:40 pm)I missed that Lyle was getting a one day trial. Congrats Lyle, and enjoy the ride. Maybe you can shame GM into giving you a ride as well!
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Feb 11th, 2009 (6:45 pm)You guy’s seem to really know your stuff. So let me ask
With the announcement that V2 batteries are already making progress, how long will it take for GM to put a 40 mile E-REV into a Full size SUV? They sure know how to make money on those things.
My neighbourhood and probably most, are full of FULL SIZE motors. So how long do you guy’s think it will take for batteries to somewhat economicaly push a Full Size SUV 40 miles?
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Feb 11th, 2009 (6:45 pm)The Grump #52.
I…had….no….idea….that you had a sense of humor.
That was brilliant.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (7:07 pm)@TALLPALL 61
My swag (Scientific Wild AS$ Guess) is three years after the first Volt is sold. Most likely the battery pack will be an H pack instead of the T pack. GM will have to do some Test & Dev on the “Real” SOC of the pack to determine what the “Safe” zones (85% and 30%) for SOC is for a much larger vehicle. Also they’ll need to come up with a stronger Electric Motor. I suggest the higher end UQM motors that have 550Nm – 650Nm of strength.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (7:24 pm)#32 fredevad Says: “Then when you pay your taxes, you’ll only get your tax rebate if you owe more than $7,500 (or plan a year in advance to owe $7,500).”
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This is not true.
The $7500 tax credit is subtracted from the tax due, not from the tax you owe.
Here’s an example: Your 1040 says your total taxes due are $21K, and your federal income total taxes paid through payroll deductions were $20K. So you owe $1K in taxes on your 1040. With the $7500 credit, your tax due would be only $13.5K, so you would get a $6500 refund instead of paying $1000.
Also, dealers may be able to work out ways to advance your tax credit, provided credit is availabe in the first place…
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Feb 11th, 2009 (7:27 pm)#64 Dave G
These are subject to the AMT, right?
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Feb 11th, 2009 (7:50 pm)#61 TALLPALL said:
You guy’s seem to really know your stuff. So let me ask
With the announcement that V2 batteries are already making progress, how long will it take for GM to put a 40 mile E-REV into a Full size SUV? They sure know how to make money on those things.
My neighbourhood and probably most, are full of FULL SIZE motors. So how long do you guy’s think it will take for batteries to somewhat economicaly push a Full Size SUV 40 miles?
========================
I would say we could see GM put a E-REV system in a full size SUV or truck by 2014ish***…but as you mention, getting a ‘real world’ and reliable 40 miles of range out of 5,000 Tahoe or truck might be tricky for them as a exclusive offering.
At the very least it is not something that is too likely to be initiated from the beginning of a full size E-REV program, probably looking at 40-50kW of pack. The only way I think you will see that happening at any point is when/if the Volt 2.0/Delta II platforms are going full BEV…or very, very extended range, lol. (which would give them a range north of 150 miles).
My gut says Volt II is probably a 2016ish*** thing, so maybe another year to crossover to other applications, so around 2017***.
***-assumes GM non-bankruptcy
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Feb 11th, 2009 (8:03 pm)#65 DonC Says: “These are subject to the AMT, right?”
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Yes, I believe so, but I don’t know all the implications of that.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (8:08 pm)If anyone can make a go of this electric business its Tesla, especially now with this cash. Their 21st century approach rather than the dinosaur mentality of the big 3 should serve them well. Guys like Lutz actually laughed at Tesla, now his company is essentially bankrupt and Telsa is charging ahead (pun intended). Count me among those who would rather pay more for the Tesla S to support a company like Tesla.
I also drove a roadster during one of their roadshows, it was awesome!
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Feb 11th, 2009 (8:13 pm)#61 TALLPALL Says: “… how long will it take for GM to put a 40 mile E-REV into a Full size SUV?”
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GM has said an EREV full size SUV is not in the cards, at least not in the foreseeable future.
Battery power and energy densities currently available are no where near what you would need for a full size SUV. You would need a battery that’s made of unobtanium.
Also, once the concept of peak oil starts to sink in, and gas rises over $5/gallon, the days of SUVs will be numbered. Look for micro-vans and sport-wagons to replace large gas hogs.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (8:17 pm)Statik #66
“My gut says Volt II is probably a 2016ish*** thing, so maybe another year to crossover to other applications, so around 2017″
I saw this and started to brake out into a full smile (the little hampster already spinning a witty gotcha line) but then I saw the footnote
I’m thinking Voltec II in 2014-2015 model year but 4×4 Voltec not untill gen III around the same time as you gave for II (2016-2017), but they will have plug-in two-mode before that.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (8:23 pm)#68 Brian Says: “Guys like Lutz actually laughed at Tesla, now his company is essentially bankrupt and Telsa is charging ahead (pun intended).”
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I think you’ve been misinformed. When Lutz found out about Tesla, he had already been trying to get others at GM to back an electric car for a quite a while, without success. But then with Tesla, he had the ammunition he needed to move forward. So the Tesla Roadster actually helped spur GM to develop the Volt.
As for Tesla, keep in mind that it’s a lot easier to hand-build $100K sports cars than to mass produce $30K sedans. Elon Musk understands this, so that’s why they started at the high end.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (8:57 pm)53, 56, 62 – Thanks. I learned from the best over-actor of all time, William Shatner. Now, back on topic….
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$40,000 for a Volt, $50,000 for a Tesla – who’s gonna buy them? The housing forclosures haven’t hit bottom yet, GM just cut 10,000 jobs, Circuit City is gone, and Congress is about to pass, and Obama is about to sign, a porka-palooza stimulis bill that will do little or nothing – eventually – to stop the outflow of jobs overseas.
How can I compete with a Mexican making a dollar a day? (answer: By working for a dollar a day). How can I compete with a chinese political prisoner who manufacturers goods free, or else his whole family will be killed? (answer: By working for a former democracy that nationalized all business and now owns everything, or else).
Point: No one wants to buy an expensive car when their job is at risk. GM picked a bad time to make a $40,000 compact car, electric or not. We are Volt fanboys here. Many prople today are afraid to go in debt for as much as a Chevy Aveo, much less a Volt. And I don’t see any immediate help from the pork-fest stimulis bill.
I would pass three laws to fix this mess.
1) “If you sell it here, make it here”. On US soil. With US workers. Under US minimum wage law. No more “Made in china”. And no Volt engines imported from AustrIa. That Volt engine plant would have to be built. US workers would have to be employed. Exception: Any raw materials not readily available in the US could be imported
2) “Only American citizens (born or naturalized) can own American real estate”. Foreigners could lease manufacturing plants to compete here, but not own them.
3) “Any and all amendments to bills proposed before the US Congress cannot be amended. For any reason. With NO exceptions. For ANYONE. EVER”. (Have I been clear enough?) Bills before congress can be either approved or defeated. The bill can then be rewritten to correct any errors / problems / additions. No more slipping amendments into bills at midnight when no one is around. Any congressperson caught amending a bill would be subject to immediate dismissal from Congress.
Turns out Perot was right. Free trade has sucked all the industry, all the jobs, and all the disposable income from America. We have made Mexico, Japan, China, the Phillipines, Malasya, Hong Kong, Singapore, India, and all of the Middle-East countries very happy, and us very poor. We don’t manufacture cars anymore – we assemble them. That’s just a shame.
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Vote “The Grump” in 2012. A free-ranch, cruelty-free, antibiotic-free chicken in every pot, and a *Volt in every garage. (*Depending on Volt availability in 2013). Thank you, my beautiful America. Together, we can rebuilt the shattered remnants of America that the Obama administration left us, and we can make America great once again. One America, strong, proud, united. We can do it !
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Feb 11th, 2009 (9:16 pm)#72 The Grump Says: “$40,000 for a Volt, $50,000 for a Tesla – who’s gonna buy them?”
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The Volt is $30,000 after tax credits, not $40,000. The $50,000 for a Tesla is also after tax credits.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (9:18 pm)…this really worries me. What country is my kid going to inherit? Mexico? Seriously, Lyle, terrific the bourgeois get to drive Roadsters. But what in the hell are the commoners going to drive? I doubt very seriously they will be Volts. These government handouts are pissing me off to the point there will be backlash against GM and Tesla. Perhaps I will stick with my VW because we’ll all be part of the EU shortly.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (9:40 pm)Question : what will be the safety standards volt is going to follow. I was going through forbes “Most Dangerous Vehicles of 2009″ and 6 GM vehicles , 4 Chrysler ones are there , yes , the GM ones are “Aveo,Colorado,Trailblazer,GMC Canyon,GMC envoy,Hummer H3″
I am sure these will affect this year GM sales because you can’t rethink after getting in a accident. GM has to be proactive in these also. People have more concerns than technology or styles. Safety is one of them. Halo Volt only cant save GM
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Feb 11th, 2009 (9:52 pm)I guess I would be nearing my third (bargain basement $12,000 battery pack) if my current car was a Tesla.
And I am hoping to spend < $25,000 for my next “electrified” car?
The Tesla is cool, and a nice toy. For the masses, it is just a dream. Are we going to fund this extravagance?
I like the idea, but come on, the price needs to be within reason, right?
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Feb 11th, 2009 (10:37 pm)
Feb 11th, 2009 (11:04 pm)JEC #78
“I guess I would be nearing my third (bargain basement $12,000 battery pack) if my current car was a Tesla.
And I am hoping to spend < $25,000 for my next “electrified” car?”
That’s 300K miles JEC. If you average 25mpg and $3/gal, that’s the same cost in gas. Of course electricity costs money too, but I’ld bet on that being less than gas going forward. Of course this does not speak to the initial price of the car ($107K) but Tesla never claimed the Roadster was meant to save the world. If you read there plans, they have promoted the idea of starting at the high end when the new tech can be afforded then drive (ha!) costs down as they move down the pyramid. They claim the Model S sedan will cost $57,500 (I’ll believe this when I see it) and the third model will be under $30,000 (I’ll belive this too when I see it). The LOAN they claim to be qualifying for is under the “advanced technology” loans approved last year. This loan is to fund the construction of a production plant to be built in California. This plant is to build the Model S sedans and the stated goal is 15K-30K per year.
Remember these LOANs are not spending your or your childrens money but it is RISKING it. This is why the companies are required to show profitability and why Tesla put their Model S and manufacturing facility plans on hold and why they cut staff and raised prices. I realize, and most people that support this advancement realize, that an $100K 2-seater will not revolutionize transportaion by itself. We also realize BEVs have their limitations and many won’t want them, but the naysayers should realize that each opinion only counts once and many other people do want them. Everyone should also realize by now that the electrification of the automobile (either BEV or EREV) is hugely beneficial to everyone and IS in the public good. Kinda like building railroads, highways, the electric grid, etc.
Also for everyone pooh-poohing Tesla’s development, they have produced 200 BEVs and have another 800 or more on order. The cars are now rolling off the assembly line at 15+/week ramping up to 30/week. They only started “real” production in mid 2008, prior to that there was only line tuning production. The designed and put into production a revolutionary car that doubled the range of the best previous BEVs, rivals that fastest cars on the road, and gets gobs of positive reviews. This was done from scratch and for a couple (few) hundred million dollars and in 4 years. They (along with $4/gal gas) have reignited that automobile industry to electric transportation and innovation. The Roadster was delayed several months because a transmission design screw up, but the resolution has brought a simpler, more powerful, more reliable, and more efficient solution. It simply boggles my mind that people can’t gives this company the credit it is due and I’m no fan of Mr. Musk.
Instead of the derrogatory and envy filled diatribes about the Roadster buyers being foolish green posers, perhaps we should be thankful for everyone that is willing to belly up to the bar and help fund a better future for all of us (whether it is intentional or NOT). Those people have ACTUALLY SPENT THEIR money while those of you quibble about a $2 LOAN.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (11:10 pm)#67 DonC said:
These are subject to the AMT, right?
=============================
They moved the threshold actually in that prop…but yes, you can still get nailed depending on your situation/credits. I would check with your tax advisor ahead of time…if the $7,500 is the difference between buying a Volt or not.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (11:45 pm)I can’t imagine that the production Model S will look as sexy as the picture on the main page… look at the clearance between the wheels and fenders… or rather lack thereof. It may be possible for the production car to look that way if the car doesn’t have any shocks.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (11:55 pm)#78 JEC Says: “The Tesla is cool, and a nice toy. For the masses, it is just a dream. Are we going to fund this extravagance?”
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The GM is cool too.
Tesla is a car company, not a car. Tesla’s plan has always been to start with a low volume, high priced, sports car, and then methodically work their way towards high volume, lower priced, mainstream electric cars.
Tesla’s first car is the Roadster, a $100K sports car. Tesla’s second car is the Model-S, a $50K sporty sedan. Tesla’s third car is a $30K family sedan.
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Feb 11th, 2009 (11:59 pm)To everyone pointing out these are loans….
They are only loans if they get paid back. The mortgage crisis that got us into this mess was caused by loans that weren’t paid back.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (12:05 am)#79 Dave G says “Yes, I believe so, but I don’t know all the implications of that (credit subject to AMT).”
Basically it means if you can afford the Volt the credit won’t do you any good.
#81 statik says “They moved the threshold actually in that prop”
It’s still basically applies to income between $150K to $450K, which assuming decent tax planning is more like $200K to $600K.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (12:19 am)Jake #84
You are absolutely correct and they are expenses when they are defaulted on. At that point, every taxpayer who so chooses has a legitimate gripe that their $2 was poorly spent. Until then the gripe is $2 at risk. Skip your next coke at lunch and call it even.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (2:11 am)_____________________________________________________
Lyle,
That’s great news you get to test drive the Tesla Roadster.
I know this may sound impossible considering how much of an electric car fan you are, but driving that Tesla will mega pump you up big time into a bigger electric car fan. It did for me. The torque on that car will glue a big smile on your face. You won’t sleep the night before or the night after.
_____________________________________________________
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Feb 12th, 2009 (2:15 am)Loans, guaranteed revolving credit, government subsidy (Rural Electrification, oil and gas, big ag) – the cries of the entitled against these “bailout” funds is amusing. If loaning money to automotive industry ends our $700 billion annual addiction to foreign oil – how dumb are these bailout/loans?
What about the $200 billion in “black” program funds that neither the taxpayer or the Congress seems to have any oversight of? Any of the entitled crying about those dollars??
Tesla deserves the investment of the American people. They alone have driven the real world electric vehicle development where the entire automotive industry INCLUDING Toyota dared not go. Without the Tesla – Lutz says he would not have pushed for the Volt.
Do not begrudge the credit for the visionaries behind the Tesla. They are the first to put up their own money, take the risk and build a real EV for commercial sale. They are a runaway success in their order book. Where “black” programs produce nothing we can evaluate of benefit to the citizenry, Tesla has produced a car that spearheads the electrification of transport. That means the public (eventually) saves $700 billion annually in dollars NOT sent to foreign oil producers.
Good work Tesla. You deserve the reward.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (7:06 am)The Tesla Roadster will prove to be the most important and iconic car of the 21st Century – and its AMERICAN. It blazed a trail that GM, Ford and other companies will follow saving both themselves and the US economy. Its even made engineering fun, relevent and cool again for the next generation of young people looking for a career.
The automotive game has changed. The once all powerful Toyota is struggling and no longer dominant. The once in a century opportunity for a rebirth of the US car industry is now.
Bye the way Kyle I am so jealous of your Tesla trial. Lots of video please.
Go Tesla, go Volt, go Michigan, go USA.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (7:21 am)toyota will not survive in the long run if they dont have good tech and i think they dont have it compared to others and their only advantage of currency weakness of yen is diminishing . so who is goanna buy them. we cant buy their cars unless they buy ours . this is simple economics .But then i strongly believe with this kind of tech and competition the japanese trade surplus may vanish in the coming years and they may have deficits
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Feb 12th, 2009 (7:36 am)Koz # 86 says,
Jake #84
You are absolutely correct and they are expenses when they are defaulted on. At that point, every taxpayer who so chooses has a legitimate gripe that their $2 was poorly spent. Until then the gripe is $2 at risk. Skip your next coke at lunch and call it even.
———-
That’s not the point. Those $2 can be used to fix schools, cure autism, and a slew of other things. I just hope these guys do right by the tax payer.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (8:43 am)I’m surprised & disappointed that Elon Musk doesn’t discuss whether the Model S will be an E-REV ….could it be that he ousted the Tesla people that might have strongly favored an E-REV design when he took control of the company?
Meanwhile, I’m fascinated by the forthcoming 3-year “EcoCAR” design competition sponsored by GM, US-DOE, the Govt of Canada, A123 and numerous other sponsors! EcoCAR has 17 university teams across north America competeing for the best overall design. Of these, 8 are using the E-REV approach, 6 are using the PHEV approach & only 1 is using a pure electric approach like Tesla’s Roadster. All 17 teams will use a Saturn VUE as their base vehicle & Li-Ion batteries.*
….I especially look forward to seeing how the 8 EcoCAR E-REV designs compare to the 6 PHEV designs in terms of overall economy, air pollution and performance, all using the same VUE chassis/body. It will also be very interesting to see how GM’s own plug-in VUE measures up to the academic team’s designs!
BTW, Lyle, congrats on your Tesla road test this weekend — needless to say, we’ll all look forward to your review of the Roadster!
*For details on the EcoCAR design shootout: http://www.green-garage.org/designs.html
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Feb 12th, 2009 (10:04 am)I suspect this will largely be wasted money. It sounds pessimistic but people have tried to start new car companies for a long time, with no success—when was the last time this happened? I know the EV is a new world, but I suspect the old, stumbling ‘dinosaur’, GM, has a much better chance of making this a reality than Tesla. I just don’t believe Tesla possesses the real expertise to make this happen, unlike GM.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (10:05 am)I am jealous 1 day with a TESLA
Have FUN
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Feb 12th, 2009 (10:12 am)It has power, and it is electric. There you go. The only thing left is to make a electric full size pick up, and you have every market covered. Considering more people buys trucks than cars (or at least 50% of the market), trucks are the major market to get into next.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (10:14 am)Nasaman #92
I thought Mr. Musk has been very clear that they changed direction and the Model S will only be a BEV. Perhaps they also quietly developing EREV (REEV in their terminology) tech too but that would be surprising giving the financial constraints. I think you are correct about change in personnal leading to a change in philosophy regrading this matter.
Rashiid #92
My point is that this is as good a risk or better than just about every other “risk” the government is trying, plus it is a minimal risk. It will create jobs, it does promote technology, plus Tesla now has a proven track record of delivering product and pushing industry development as a whole.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (10:56 am)Where I live, the Tesla makes no sense. The cold temps will signifantly reduce my range. The batteries may not even work at these temps. I have seen nothing about a heating system for the batteries. And forget driving a 0-60 in 3.7sec rear wheel drive sports car in the snow.
I hope there next car is FWD, and is made for cold weather.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (12:10 pm)#44 statik:
Yeah, I hear you. As my Dad used to say, I’m hoping against hope.
I dunno what’s more discouraging, the almost 100% historic infant mortality rate of startup car companies, or the current one foot in Chapter 11 and the other on a banana peel status of the “Big 2.415″, or whatever we’re calling them lately.
I wonder if they will do anything for Aptera? I have to confess that I came THAT CLOSE to putting down the $500 this week, before I dragged myself back from the brink of insanity. I know, I know. that’s a freebie.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (1:48 pm)Hey Lyle, have fun driving the Tesla! Awaiting your feedback!
Too bad GM couldn’t over the same perk, considering all you’ve done to help spread the word! Ah well, there be soooo many more test drives from other car companies to follow….
GO EV!
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Feb 12th, 2009 (3:14 pm)Awesome progress.
I absolutely love what Musk has done at SpaceX and Tesla.* Ever since Musk gave a small talk up here I have been an obsessive follower of his companies. Tesla cars will certainly be a great start in the electrification of the auto.
That said, Voltec will (eventually) result in EVs for the masses, and is thus much more important.
*although to do what he does you need to be somewhat crazy, which is why I would never want to work for him. My friend tried to pull me in with him to SpaceX, but their hours and stress levels are just insane (he seems to enjoy it though). You can’t argue with the results.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (4:16 pm)Lyle,
Great post, and excellent news for Tesla – it’s great you get to drive the Roadster around – you will have a blast.
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Feb 12th, 2009 (5:46 pm)You might wanna wear a neck brace before you feather that throttle during your first launch.
The torque is simply AMAZING.
Dr. Studley Whiplash
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Feb 13th, 2009 (1:43 am)I don’t believe in pure electrical vehicles based on Lithium ION
batteries. Too expensive, too little lithium, too long to charge
up, explosion danger. Hydrogen harvested from the ocean is
the answer. The only cars using batteries to improve fuel economy
that have succeeded to date are the Prius and cars like it. Building
200 cars that are pure EV’s for the rich is not a success story.
Tesla can’t sell a car for $57k and expect a lot of people to buy
it. Even the Volt is supposed to be at least $10k less than that.
But even at $40k the Volt isn’t going to sell well. Most people buy
a slightly used car for $15k-$20k. The prices for the Volt and pure
EVs are still at least a factor of 2 too high. Fuel Cell vehicles will prove to be inexpensive enough to be practical when the fuel cell stack itself drops substantially in price. This will happen as platinum is replaced with carbon nanotubes. Volume production
of fuel cell vehicles will help bring the price down as well.
Pure EV’s are dangerous because they require enormous batteries
with tremendous amounts of electrical energy stored in them that
can explode. Pure EV’s aren’t as practical as hydrogen cars that
can already go 450 miles on a tank of compressed hydrogen gas.
That is a poor way to store hydrogen on a vehicle and yet Toyota
with it’s highlander FCHV is getting that kind of range.
Building a series of test hydrogen stations in every state in the
Union that can dispense hydrogen at 10k or 5k PSI would be a
good start. 170k stations would be nice, but that many aren’t needed to get things rolling. For the first stations, steam reformation of natural gas makes sense. Having natural gas
also allows natural gas vehicles to fuel up. I’m thinking for
starters build 2 hydrogen stations in every state near major
cities. That will allow testing of fuel cell vehicles nationwide.
To help drivers of fuel cell vehicles who get stranded by driving
too far from a hydrogen station, develop shipment of Magnesuim Hydride Slurry on trucks with water in order to reform it into hydrogen. If these trucks are equipped with compressors,
they become portable refueling stations.
Please see http://www.hydrogencarsnow.com/.
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Feb 13th, 2009 (9:09 am)#103 Michael Robinson Says: “Hydrogen harvested from the ocean is the answer.”
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Hydrogen is the biggest scam going. It’s the big oil companies that are pushing hydrogen. They know it will never make sense economically, and if it ever does, hydrogen will be made from natural gas, like it is now. That’s why they call them Fool Sells. They are meant to deceive us. Classic red herring.
Ulf Bossel heads up the European Fuel Cell Forum. He writes:
“There is a lot of money in the field now,” he continues. “I think that it was a mistake to start with a ‘Presidential Initiative’ rather with a thorough analysis like this one. Huge sums of money were committed too soon, and now even good scientists prostitute themselves to obtain research money for their students or laboratories—otherwise, they risk being fired. But the laws of physics are eternal and cannot be changed with additional research, venture capital or majority votes.”
Why a hydrogen economy doesn’t make sense
http://www.physorg.com/news85074285.html
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Feb 13th, 2009 (9:47 am)#92 nasaman Says: “I’m surprised & disappointed that Elon Musk doesn’t discuss whether the Model S will be an E-REV ….could it be that he ousted the Tesla people that might have strongly favored an E-REV design when he took control of the company?”
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#96 Koz Says: “I thought Mr. Musk has been very clear that they changed direction and the Model S will only be a BEV. Perhaps they also quietly developing EREV (REEV in their terminology) tech too but that would be surprising giving the financial constraints. I think you are correct about change in personnel leading to a change in philosophy regrading this matter.
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There was never any plan to make the Model S (a.k.a. Whitestar) an EREV.
Tesla’s initial plans called for 3 models, codenamed Redstar, Whitestar, and Bluestar. The Redstar became the Roadster. The Whitestar is the Model S. The Bluestar is a $30K family sedan.
In late 2007, Musk said the 3rd model (a.k.a. Bluestar) may be an EREV (or REEV as he called it).
http://gm-volt.com/2007/12/22/tesla-motors-chairman-elon-musk-on-production-plans/
and Tesla really seemed to be embracing the EREV concept
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog3/?p=67
But then in in late 2008, Musk started saying that the 3rd model would be a pure BEV, and that range extenders don’t make sense.
I suspect the change had to do with Tesla not wanting to compete head-on with the GM. Musk has said publicly he doesn’t really want to do that. It could also have to do with Tesla’s relatively limited financial resources. Pure BEVs are much easier to build than EREVs.
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Feb 13th, 2009 (7:04 pm)Michael Robinson #103
Mercedes, Lexus, Cadillac, BMW, Acura, Infinity, Porsche, Audi, etc.
How many of them are under $30K? If you think about it, an electric vehicle that uses 75% or less gas is worth up to $15,000 (individual value will vary greatly) more on gas savings alone. These first generation cars don’t have to be first cost competitive Corollas to succeed.
Dave G #105
I beg to differ. Tesla did claim for a little while that there would be a REEV (Range Extended Electric Vehicle) version of the Model S.
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Feb 14th, 2009 (2:32 pm)
Feb 16th, 2009 (5:51 am)If i where tesla, and the Sedan version would be a great succes you can’t give it a 40K price tag. It will be more.
But you can also see: Tesla Roadster is also kinda expensive but this is also due the demand of the market.
In the beginning of the model S the demand will be big, because there is no competition.
( well you still have fisker or BYD but ye …. ) If you want to carry 4 or 5 people.
But electric cars will fail or win only on 1 thing: Battery’s.
When is there going to be breaktrue cheap ass technology….. =)
Anyway, there ain’t hanging a poster of a porsche or ferarri above my bed anymore. =) Tesla roadster is officialy my dream car!
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