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Confirmed: First Production Chevy Volt Engines Will be Imported From Aspern, Austria

February 4th, 2009 | Posted in: Generator, Production

A key component of the Chevy Volt is the combustion engine that will act as the range-extender, turning the generator to make electricity for continued driving beyond the first 40 miles between charges.

One chapter of the Volt story was that a 1.4 L Family 0 normally-aspirated engine had been chosen for this task. Last year a Flint Michigan facility was chosen by GM to produce those engines for use in the Volt, and a turbo variety for use in the upcoming Chevy Cruze. However, GM’s financial difficulties has led to a suspension of that plant’s construction. This has not led to any delays in Volt production though, because engines for the initial Volts it turns out were never intended to come from that facility.

"The first engines we were going to get from Austria anyway," said Tony Posawatz GM Volt vehicle line director,"that’s always been the plan."

When asked whether volumes in the thousands would be imported from there for the Volt, Posawatz said they would import "one for every Volt." He noted that "the issue becomes that even if we go to higher volumes, they have the capability, but if the industry becomes more directed towards four cylinders than sixes and eights, we’d want an on site facility instead of shipping those things across the ocean."

And for that eventuality GM had planned the Flint plant which is in closer proximity to the Detroit-Hamtramck facility where the Volt itself will be assembled. Posawatz indicates the delay in that plant is related to GM’s cash flow problem that he thinks is "going to get sorted out."

And that even though the Flint plant would be ideal he says GM, "needs to respond to the government challenges and concerns," and that the plant really isn’t an "absolute thing that must happen off the bat since the engine’s already coming from an existing plant."

Wards Auto has also confirmed this information and gives the engine plants specific location as Aspern Austria where these family 0 engines are already being built. Furthermore the report indicates GM still hopes to build the plant in Flint only in a different greenfield location. It was also noted that the dedicated Michigan battery pack assembly plant plan remains intact although no specific location has been chosen yet.

Posted by: Lyle

155 Responses to “Confirmed: First Production Chevy Volt Engines Will be Imported From Aspern, Austria”

Alex S Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:07 am

I hope GM wont import all it’s parts from foreign countries.
Afterall this is an american revolution right?
Hopefully they will use american engines once they can afford it.
MarkinWI Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:11 am

Man. I thought I was up early. (CST)

Lyle, can you define “greenfield.” I’m familiar with “brownfield.” If the plant was going to be built on a brownfield then there should be state or federal money available to remediate the site (at least in theory). This creates a win-win, because an old industrial site is remediated and re-used.
Estero Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:14 am

This comes as no big surprise. But, it is still very disappointing to hear GM has used disinformation on the Volt engine/generator. It makes one wonder about many other things. Is it for real or is it just more disinformation?
Joe Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:16 am

Hope this engine gets built in the USA to provide jobs soon after production starts!!!
David L G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:22 am

Estero @3 – what are you suggesting is disinformation?
Joe Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:31 am

Estero Says: @3

It is very disappointing to hear GM has used disinformation on the Volt engine/generator. It makes one wonder how many other things being told about the Volt and other projects is nothing more than disinformation!

***************************************************************************

What you call disinformation is not telling all. If that’s the case, Toyota and Honda are guilty of doing the same even more so. Don’t expect any manufacturer to give out all details because that is not realistic.
beachliving Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:31 am

Wow, that’s great so we can pollute the air and waste fuel too ship the motors across the ocean.. One for every Volt? That sounds like he is making 100 cars?? And we are still supposed to pay 40,000 for this car. No thanks I’m out.. First the change in appearance then the price, now the production locations, I give up, I’m just going to upgrade my Escape to plug in, but you guys on this site are great I still love to see all you enthusiasm..
BillR1 Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:44 am

#2 MarkinWI,

Greenfield means construction on a new site, where as you mention brownfield means a previous industrial site.
Jim I Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:48 am

I think this is more spin.

Didn’t GM just cancel the contracts for the engine plant? The plant that as I recall we were told would be ready in time to produce the engines for the Volt and the Cruze?

But now, “it was always the plan to import the engines…”

And what is with the comment of “even if we go to higher volumes”?

If???? I thought it was “when”. That does not sound too good……………

I am a huge supporter of your E-REV. But come on GM – Don’t give up on this project now, when you are so close!!!!

Or is this how you expect to lower the cost of Gen-2 – By not shipping one of the main components halfway around the planet?

I have to tell you, I would really prefer honest talk. Something like this: Look, we are broke, and right now we can’t afford the cost of building another engine plant. So for the short term, we have to use an existing engine plant to get this car built. Once we see how it sells in the market, and when we have the available capital, we will ramp up production with a facility in Michigan…..

Is that so hard for these guys to do????

I would also feel much better if we had some information on when work at the Hamtramck plant was going to get done.
statik Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:01 am

So…not Australia then?

Lyle said:
“Other sources in GM have advised me that the engines used to build the Volt could be obtained from other plants in GMs family, specifically including one in Australia.”
http://gm-volt.com/2009/01/28/voltcruze-engine-plant-delay-continues/#comments

/just some early morning fun Lyle….keep up the good work (=
Zach Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:07 am

#9, in the business world, it just doesn’t always work that simply. It doesn’t take someone 20 years of experience in the work force to figure that one out.
joe obrien Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:09 am

From a financial standpoint, it doesn’t really make sense until GM is in better financial shape to build an entire separate facility to produce this engine, when they already have a working plant right now. Once they get some profits coming in they will build a local plant to save costs once they can afford it.

What is the problem with that? They need to try and save money where they can till the become more viable. Wish them the best of luck doing it.
BillR1 Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:10 am

I’m not sure how to read this. Obviously, this is a confirmation of the fact that the Volt’s ICE will initially be produced in Austria and shipped to the US for the Volt’s final assembly.

However, the phrase,

“but if the industry becomes more directed towards four cylinders than sixes and eights, we’d want an on site facility instead of shipping those things across the ocean”.

This implies to me that GM will need to see a demand in North America for these engines (i.e solid Cruze, Volt, and other small car sales) before they invest in this new plant. So if gas prices stay low, and consumers opt for V6’s and V8’s, and don’t buy the 4 cyl models, there may be no justification for a new plant in the US, and the engines will continue to come from overseas.

For the record, I don’t know this to be a fact, just what I sense by reading between the lines.
cheaters Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:21 am

I hope Japanese will succeed, not GM. They are terrible and American stigma.
Shawn Marshall Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:28 am

Let’s see, you have no money, you have a plant already making the engines, the plant has spare capacity, so do you build a new plant right away or try to develop your product with the resources you already have? Hmmm – I wonder.
But don’t give up a chance to vent a little spleen on a blog site in the comfort of anonymity.

Go Volt. Fingers crossed.
brad Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:34 am

Hopefully it doesn’t come with European reliability which is the worst.
frankyB Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:37 am

Statik: Austria, Australia sounds similar Different continent but sounds just about the same

I think it’s a smart move from GM and shows they will do what they have to do to stay focus on the deadline.

To Brad, to the exception of VW, you don’t know what you are talking about. Yes, when they broke it cost more, but they don’t brake often.
Joe Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:41 am

cheaters Says: @14

I hope Japanese will succeed, not GM. They are terrible and American stigma.

**********************************************************************************

If you are American, than you are a stupid American. With the shape we are in, I find this talk very stupid. Excuse my language, but this person deserves it.
Jason M. Hendler Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:43 am

Interesting – Tesla also has to select a new location for their headquarters, because it wasn’t a “greenfield” facility. Sounds like both GM and Tesla are going to get their money, but they have to adjust their plans to do so.
Jay Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:57 am

Why in the heck would GM import these engines. Did they not lay off enough workers in the U.S. They should be keeping American Jobs by building these engines here instead of using our Stimulus money to send it overseas. Come on GM I support you and only buy your cars. Support America back by keeping Americans Employed.
Murray Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:58 am

Well if they must import…the carbon emmission ‘hit’ will be much less coming from Austria than from way down unda’…so at least there’s that…
GXT Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 9:23 am

“…but if the industry becomes more directed towards four cylinders than sixes and eights…”

Really GM? You’re still waiting for that? Maybe by the next bailout then (and I don’t mean the one this month).
Guy Incognito Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 9:23 am

I’ve known since November 2007 that the Volt’s ICE would be an Opel engine.
I posted a thread about it on the old forums.

At the time, the Volt’s ICE design called for a 1.0 liter 3 cylinder.
Only engine that matched the one in the Volt’s high-res renderings were Opel’s.

All indications point that overseas Volt engine production is a temporary thing, as GM continues to state that they are still committed to building the engine in Flint.

GM, a reminder, you’ve gotten taxpayer dollars to stay in business.
We expect you to honor your commitments.
Gsned57 Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 9:32 am

I’m glad GM is running out of money. You’ve got a plant making the engines you need with a workforce that is not UAW and probably (just guessing) costs less. Why the hell wouldn’t you utilize the resources you currently have? It seems like a complete waste to build a new facility when you haven’t even sold your first E-Rev.

This is going to be a global product. Europe is going to buy this car too. Canadians are going to buy this car. Asians are going to buy this car. I want it made in America and I want to buy an American product but this is a global economy and everyone would love to see their nation as the one on the sticker saying made in “insert country here”. I can live with parts coming from other countries as long as those countries are also buying the products and supporting an American company.

GM however is out of cash and really needs to get leaner (yes it is a reference to Toyota’s process improvement strategy). If they need to they should get 3 shifts running around the clock in Austria and when that won’t cut it then build a new plant in Michigan.

If there is a business case where it would be cheaper to make it in the states than shipping it from Austria, fine get the funds and make it happen. But at this point everything should be about improving the bottom line and utilizing the resources that you currently have.
PL Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 9:39 am

This is to #14 above, the “cheater”.
———————————————-

You are so ignorant. The Japanese are one of the most RACIST and MISOGYNISTIC societies on Earth (my daughter lives over there and confirms this), and you are rooting for them over the United States of America – one of the most inclusive and tolerant societies that has ever existed. Read history and learn something before you takes sides.

It always amazes me how so many of my “liberal” friends lavish praise on the Japanese and their culture and their cars, yet know nothing about the real Japanese culture of thinking they are a superior race, while denigrating women and treating them as second class citizens.

They are also a society of robots. They are culturally regimented, invent very little themselves, and have made a national business of taking other’s technology and improving upon it (which they do a good job of).

Being tolerant myself, I like the Japanese people. But it comes from a viewpoint of understanding them (I have been to Japan three times), and knowing their strengths and weaknesses.

I have traveled to about 60 countries in my life and I can tell you from firsthand experience that there is NO better country than the USA, and our people are the most generous, kind, forgiving, tolerant, free-spirited, and innovative on Earth, and they deserve YOUR support.

GO GM!

GO VOLT!
Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 9:49 am

From here, that is Western Europe, it is disturbing to see all the protectionist reflexions in the site.
If the “Buy American” slogan wins, the risk is high for a “Buy Asian” or “Buy European” slogan. That would be bad for all.

Regards

JC NPNS
Cautious Fan Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 9:51 am

Some of the political support for GM is for jobs. I wonder if that’s going to erode a little.
Arch Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:00 am

BLAH BLAH BLAH!……I am sick and tired of this saga.

Take Care
Arch
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:00 am

#3 Estero Says: “But, it is still very disappointing to hear GM has used disinformation on the Volt engine/generator.”
————————————————————————————–
GM has given no disinformation on the Volt’s engine.

When GM announced the Volt would use a 4-cylinder engine, they said it was an engine they were already building in Europe. Then when GM announced the Michigan plant to build this same engine for the Volt and Cruze, it was clear this new plant would never be ready in time to meet the November 2010 date for the Volt.

So it was always pretty clear that GM would use the European built engines for the first Volts, and then start using the Michigan built engines shortly thereafter. The only real issue now is exactly how soon thereafter. If GM’s cash flow problems persist, then it may be a while, which is bad news, but not terrible.
Cautious Fan Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:05 am

#26 Jean-Charles Jacquemin

As an American, this protectionism scares me too. In the short-term it looks so attractive, but it fails to consider how others will respond. Everyone knows how terrible was Smoot-Hawley was for the depression, but that won’t stop folks from pandering for gov’t favors again.

Economists disagree on many things, but I’ve yet to hear of one who doesn’t believe that free-trade is a positive sum game. Most folks however believe free-trade is a zero-sum game with someone winning and someone loosing. It’s a paradox and so people are hesitant to support the concept. It makes me sad to see it happen because I know the people mean well, but they don’t realize how dangerous & destructive it is.
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:08 am

#13 BillR1 Says: “This implies to me that GM will need to see a demand in North America for these engines (i.e solid Cruze, Volt, and other small car sales) before they invest in this new plant. So if gas prices stay low, and consumers opt for V6’s and V8’s, and don’t buy the 4 cyl models, there may be no justification for a new plant in the US, and the engines will continue to come from overseas.”
————————————————————————————–
Right. I caught that also. This is probably the worst part of the article. If GM slips back into selling gas-guzzlers again, it will surely be their downfall. Didn’t Wagoner say they will never fall into that trap again?

And another thing: Why do they have to build an engine plant in a completely new building? I would think they could just retool an existing V8 or V6 engine plant for a lot less cost.
RB Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:08 am

I’m glad the Volt is going to use a proven engine from an established plant. The car has so many other new features, it will be advantageous that the ICE is not one of them. Even if shipping increases Volt costs slightly, that will be less than the cost of a whole new engine plant, at least for initial volumes.

Like Estero at #3, I too am troubled by the contrast between the current GM statement “was going to be Austria all along” as compared to their previous statements about the engines being built in Flint. As Estero said, it makes one wonder about other things.
Pino Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:12 am

It never ceases to amaze me. We have given GM and other auto companies money out of our own pocket and what happens… voila send the money to another country. I am resigning to the fact that these people (Executives) don’t live in the “real world”. The funny thing about this is that GM has already stated that the “handout” money they received will probably run out in April. How many of you think they’ll ask for more money? Do we really not know how to make a freakin’ 4 cylinder engine… come on.
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:15 am

#14 cheaters Says: “I hope Japanese will succeed, not GM. They are terrible and American stigma.”
————————————————————————————–
From what we know, the Japanese are not even trying to build an EREV. How can they succeed if they aren’t even trying?

From what I’ve seen, Toyota and Honda are much better at refining existing technology, not creating new technology. Remember that the first hybrid cars were created in America through the “Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PNGV
Toyota only gets credit for the hybrid because they stuck with it. Everyone else dropped their hybrid projects when gas went below $1/gallon.
ThombDbhomb Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:18 am

I guess I’ll have to learn the metric system if I want to do any wrenching.
Tagamet Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:18 am

Personally, I don’t care if they make the engines on Krypton – as long as they get made well, on budget, and on time. Statik would be able to provide a link, but I hear that they have significantly lower corporate tax levels there.
Wait, that can’t be right, that planet exploded (hence the need for Jor-el and Lora (also of the House of El) to rocket their infant up, up and Awaaaay. Rumors continue to circulate that Maximum Bob was also sent in the same rocket, to be raised with his brother Clark by John and Martha Kent (Jor-el and Lora had broken the “One child only” rule on Krypton – pushed through their ruling body by Nancy of the House of Pel Osee). Maximum Bob is credited with developing Superman’s extremely effective disguise (glasses).
I know, I know, med check time….
Be well,
Tag
LJGTVWOTR!!…………..NPNS……………Independence Day 2010
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:22 am

#24 Gsned57 Says: “You’ve got a plant making the engines you need with a workforce that is not UAW and probably (just guessing) costs less.”
————————————————————————————–
I would guess labor costs in Austria are fairly high. They’re right next to Switzerland. When my wife was in Vienna in the early 90s, everything was very expensive.
RB Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:22 am

#36 Tag

I am gradually learning to appreciate your subtle sense of humor
House of Pel Osee indeed
john1701a Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:25 am

From what we know, the Japanese are not even trying to build an EREV. How can they succeed if they aren’t even trying?
_______________________________

What do you think “succeed” actually means?

For Toyota, it is to produce an extremely high volume of clean & efficient vehicles at a profit.

Remember, they are a business, FULL hybrids can offer a plug option, and EREV still uses an engine.
N Riley Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:30 am

GM is doing the right thing for them at this time. When it is right for them to manufacture the engines in the U.S. they will do it. They should not be forced to do what is not in the best interest for them.

Forcing companies to do things that are not in the best interest of the companies is part of what has caused our current financial problems.
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:31 am

#25 PL Says: “It always amazes me how so many of my “liberal” friends lavish praise on the Japanese and their culture and their cars, yet know nothing about the real Japanese culture… They are culturally regimented, invent very little themselves, and have made a national business of taking other’s technology and improving upon it (which they do a good job of).”
————————————————————————————–
Yes, I agree.

In addition, Japan is in trouble. As countries become wealthy, less children are born. Then as the population ages, there are not enough workers to support senior citizens, and the economy tanks. America would have tanked years ago if we didn’t have immigrants. The culture in Japan is not conducive to immigrants, so Japan is in trouble.
James Jonhson Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:32 am

Maybe people will finally realize there is no way to “buy American” anymore and just get over the protectionist crap that doesn’t help anyone. Its a global economy, if you can’t plan for and compete in that environment its time to fold up shop and go home. It’s not 1950 anymore.
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:36 am

#26 Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says: “From here, that is Western Europe, it is disturbing to see all the protectionist reflexions in the site. If the “Buy American” slogan wins, the risk is high for a “Buy Asian” or “Buy European” slogan. That would be bad for all.”
————————————————————————————–
I agree. We live in a world economy. That’s the reality. Protectionism will only make the world economy worse.
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:42 am

#36 Tagamet Says: “Personally, I don’t care if they make the engines on Krypton – as long as they get made well, on budget, and on time.”
————————————————————————————–
In the near term, yes. But if the Volt starts selling like hotcakes, which is my greatest hope, then they’ll need engine plants on every continent.
Gsned57 Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:43 am

#37 Dave G

#24 Gsned57 Says: “You’ve got a plant making the engines you need with a workforce that is not UAW and probably (just guessing) costs less.”
————————————————————————————–
I would guess labor costs in Austria are fairly high. They’re right next to Switzerland. When my wife was in Vienna in the early 90s, everything was very expensive.

_________________________________________________

I’ve been to Austria recently and it is a pretty expensive country. My main point was that unless GM can monetarily justify a business case for creating a new plant when they have excess capacity at one across the pond I don’t think they should be building new factories even if that means using labor from another country. I want them to use my bailout taxpayer money to get solvent and profitable. I don’t want them to continue paying workers twice as much as Toyota of America and keep coming back asking for more handouts. That isn’t sustainable (unless we keep giving them more bailouts).

NPNS
RB Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:47 am

#41 Dave G said
In addition, Japan is in trouble. As countries become wealthy, less children are born. Then as the population ages, there are not enough workers to support senior citizens, and the economy tanks. America would have tanked years ago if we didn’t have immigrants. The culture in Japan is not conducive to immigrants, so Japan is in trouble.
—————————————————

You make a good point, one seldom realized in the US, where most people still imagine the population to be “exploding” Most places would be better off to attract all the young people that they can, so as to have someone to support them when they are old. Here the US is very fortunate.
Tagamet Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:48 am

RB@38 said:
#36 Tag
I am gradually learning to appreciate your subtle sense of humor
House of Pel Osee indeed

*****************************************************************************
Being serious just makes the wait seem longer. I think that a little humor helps make the wait a smidge more bearable.
Be well,
Tag
LJGTVWOTR!! ***************NPNS***************Independence Day 2010
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:51 am

#39 john1701a Says: “For Toyota, it is to produce an extremely high volume of clean & efficient vehicles”
————————————————————————————–
Efficient vehicles won’t cut it. 50 MPG won’t make us energy independent. We need other fuel sources. We need plug-ins.

Toyota seems to be dragging their feet on plug-ins. Third party Prius plug-ins have been available for years, and Toyota is only now announcing limited fleet testing with an anemic electric assist.
ThombDbhomb Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:52 am

#44 Dave G

Denny’s had to give away hot cakes yesterday.
Tim Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:56 am

Point:

How exactly is this OFFSHORING helping our trade deficit or employing Americans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offshoring

Once a “for profit” company accepts MY tax money ALL BETS ARE OFF! They must spend it HERE and boost OUR standard of living HERE!

Is it protectionist to cover your own A$$ or should you freely trade it with EVERYONE who wants a piece of it? Ask anyone in prison if protectionism is a good thing and understand this point that America is in debtor’s prison!

Counterpoint:

Then again, perhaps we should have OBEYED THE CONSTITUTION and not be using taxpayer money to select winners and losers, reward failure and destroy the benefits of free market competition in the first place. (I’m just saying…)

We’ve seen what the financial sector has done with OUR money and now we see that GM is off shoring it as quickly as they can with small tokens spent in the US so that we will feel less FOOLISH when they come back for MORE of our tax money. THEY WILL COME BACK FOR MORE!

Change? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA. that’s a gooood one!
Estero Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:57 am

Several have said GM is NOT guilty of disinformation as it relates to where the Volt engine/generator is to be manufactured. Perhaps it comes down to motivation.

Misinformation is false or inaccurate information that is spread unintentionally. It is distinguished from disinformation by motive in that misinformation is simply erroneous, while disinformation, in contrast, is intended to mislead.
unni Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 11:00 am

proves 2 points :

1) cruze is not going to have any exceptional mpg. It will be similar to some car using this same engine.Only need is look chevys overseas offering with the same engine.

2) Volt is not going to have exceptional plug-in range as the efficiency of the ICE is not that high and not tuned for the purpose.

Gold standards are meant to be gold standards, I wish volt will atleast win a bronze in production.

#1
Chevy is not only “an American revolution”. It is “an placename revolution”, the country they market will come in placename. I found this when i traveled to India, it is “An Indian revolution” there “
Joe Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 11:01 am

To PL@25

I’m all with you on this one. For those who don’t know how a small country like Japan got so powerful industrially, click on the link below.

http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html
Tim Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 11:08 am

uni (#52)

If we were on the “gold standard” we wouldn’t be in this mess!

Do you even know that “gold standard” means?

No, it’s not a trinket you win in a race!

http://economics.about.com/cs/money/a/gold_standard.htm
Joe Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 11:12 am

Dave G says@48

“Toyota seems to be dragging their feet on plug-ins. Third party Prius plug-ins have been available for years, and Toyota is only now announcing limited fleet testing with an anemic electric assist.”

**********************************************************************************

I don’t give a hoot about Toyota or any other non-American companies. Let them fall behind. Our country should have been the leader in car technology all along. It is great if we can once again become the leader now that the domestics are finally awake.
Joe Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 11:17 am

response to beachliving Says: @7

You are not happy with how the Volt is coming along, but at least, you are driving American. That’s more than a lot of people can say.
Len Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 11:32 am

I saw a new wrinkle on global markets from IBM the other day. They are laying off folks, but telling them that IBM will help them relocate if they want to work in India or China (or a bunch of other places), the only stipulation is that they work for the same wages as the locals.

Something like this may get our governments attention, it one thing to export jobs, it is another to export the taxpayers.
VoltZealot Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 11:35 am

RB Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:47 am .#41 Dave G said
In addition, Japan is in trouble. As countries become wealthy, less children are born. Then as the population ages, there are not enough workers to support senior citizens, and the economy tanks. America would have tanked years ago if we didn’t have immigrants. The culture in Japan is not conducive to immigrants, so Japan is in trouble.
—————————————————

You make a good point, one seldom realized in the US, where most people still imagine the population to be “exploding” Most places would be better off to attract all the young people that they can, so as to have someone to support them when they are old. Here the US is very fortunate.
————————————————
Gentlemen, isn’t this a Volt related site?? We should get back to automotive industry articles, not discuss the completely false idea that immigration helps the economy–it doesn’t because the immigrants DON’T MAKE ENOUGH MONEY to make a difference. Check out the Center for Immigration Studies to see why(link below), but in short, new immigrants, especially illegal ones, do NOT make enough to pay into the system to help the economy, or even close to paying their own retirements(soc security etc). When you subtract the costs of welfare, crime/prisons, social programs, you find that almost ALL immigrants are a net drag on the system, and will NOT save Social Security or any other programs(let alone the economy), even by the 3rd generation here. Immigration is a net negative on America except for a VERY small group of high education/skills set of legal immigrants. Restrict it to that 100k persons a year, and it will help the economy. Everyone else, just adds more weight onto the system. Again, read the facts that are not spun by the Open Borders media crowd and you see a different picture. Just the facts, ma’am, just the facts.
http://www.cis.org/node/29

Oh, yes, NPNS!
Euro Trash Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 11:44 am

GM is a GLOBAL corporation with operations in over 100 countries. Get off your USA-first mental block. If it wasn’t for the non-US part of GM being so profitable they would have gone out of business a long time ago. Many of the GM cars built overseas are far superior than the garbage they dump on stupid americans. Try driving a high mpg Vauxhall or Holden and you will quickly understand that GM can build better American cars but the americans just don’t have the smarts or refined taste as the rest of the world when it comes to 4 wheel personal transportion. Get over yourselves and have nice day.
Estero Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 11:47 am

There is no question that the U.S. finances are in shambles and getting worse by the day. It has been my position for a very long time (see my earlier postings) that the only way out of this mess is to create U.S. jobs, jobs and even more jobs.

The U.S. government cannot create those jobs, with the possible exception of NASA, etc. The government’s role is to put the policies, tax laws, treaties, etc. in place and then get the heck out of the way for the public sector to create those jobs.

The creation of jobs needs to be the #1 priority of our government. It needs to keep an open mind while re-examine everything related to the creation/retention of jobs. If tax laws need to be change, let’s change them. If government policies, treaties or whatever has a negative effect upon the creation/retention of jobs, it is time to change those things too.

There is no question that the U.S. has to take the world into consideration in our policies, tax laws, treaties, etc. Our friends to the north are important. Our friends to the south are also important. And, our friends across both ponds are equally important. But, I am convinced our best opportunity to have a positive influence on the world is to start by looking after ourselves.

JMHO
User Name Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:01 pm

#23 Guy Incognito
You’re right, the high-res Volt renderings show an engine that can only be the Opel 1.0 L
http://media.gm-powertrain.at/powertrain-media/media/images/200308200001_01.jpg

Developed at GM’s International Technical Development Center, Ruesselsheim, Germany.
http://evworld.com/article.cfm?storyid=1161

There really was’nt any disinformation on GM’s part; after all you can see its an Opel engine in the earliest Volt renderings.
I believe that GM intends to build the engine in Flint as they have claimed, and were it not for the economic downturn, this would be the case.
Until then, GM must rely on their subsidiary, Opel to supply the engines.
Any allegations of fraud or disinformation on GM’s part are baseless.
k-dawg Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

Is it going to be the EXACT same engine.. or will it be tweaked for the Volt?

What about spare parts?
CaptJackSparrow Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:18 pm

@GXT 22
“…but if the industry becomes more directed towards four cylinders than sixes and eights…”

Really GM? You’re still waiting for that? Maybe by the next bailout then (and I don’t mean the one this month).

EXACTLY!!!
Zen Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:23 pm

Tired of the same old history ? Is it boring ? Let Tony Posawatz revise history just for you. Angry about Al Gore not winning in 2000 ? Do you wish the South had won the Civil War ? Do YOU want to be the person who invented the Wheel ? Tony Posawatz can do all this and more, with a custom history rewrite, written just for you. Reasonable rates, call now.
CaptJackSparrow Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:26 pm

I’m going to pedal my request again.

Ommit the the ICE/Genset and just sell the 40mile AER BEV now and work on getting the ICE as an “Upgrade” later. Remove the Genset and all the crappy creature comforts (which will break after warranty anyway) and you have a car that is AT LEAST 600lbs lighter, which in theory will increase range.
So for someone like myself, someone who understands what the limit is and takes full responsibility, this bare bones BEV version will be more than enough.

There. Problem solved for the ICE for Gen Ghetto.

I’ll take a Volt, NO ICE, NO Genset, shaken not stirred…..
CaptJackSparrow Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

Collin Powel hast good taste in his Cars…..
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/02/04/washington-2009-colin-powell-likes-the-fisker-karma/
250volts Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:27 pm

Perhaps this has already been mentioned but I just read on the CNN website that a doctore was injured in an explosion while in his hybrid Lexus. They are already suspecting the batteries. If this is the case this could set the whole industry on it’s arse. Hope this doesn’t pan out to be true.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/04/doctor.car.blast/index.html
CaptJackSparrow Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:35 pm

@250volts 67

Considering the “Blast Site” was under the hood/front engine compartment, I HIGHLY doubt it was the batteries. The Batteries are not located there.
Tom H Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:36 pm

This comes as no big surprise. But, it is still very disappointing to hear GM has used disinformation on the Volt engine/generator. It makes one wonder about many other things. Is it for real or is it just more disinformation?

———————————————————————————
GM changed its production plans based on changing demand patterns. Disinformation? Grow up.
Joe Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

k-dawg Says: @62

“Is it going to be the EXACT same engine.. or will it be tweaked for the Volt?

What about spare parts?”

***********************************************************************************

Yes, it will be tweaked. This engine will have a limited RPM range and it will tweaked to it’s sweat spot. It lends itself to HCCI engines.

http://blog.mlive.com/autoblog/2007/08/how_about_that_homogeneous_cha.html
Steven Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:37 pm

#67

Oh please!

Gasoline is orders of magnitude more dangerous than hybrid batteries. How many thousands have been killed in explosions and fires in gas cars? Every car today is rolling down the street with a potential bomb in the gas tank. Yes, occasionally things happen but countless lives would be saved with batteries vs gas in accidents.
Tom H Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:39 pm

Wow, that’s great so we can pollute the air and waste fuel too ship the motors across the ocean.. One for every Volt? That sounds like he is making 100 cars?? And we are still supposed to pay 40,000 for this car. No thanks I’m out.. First the change in appearance then the price, now the production locations, I give up, I’m just going to upgrade my Escape to plug in, but you guys on this site are great I still love to see all you enthusiasm..
————————————————————————————
Ocean freight is extremely energy efficient. Also, this avoids the wasteful alternative of building a new engine plant in Michigan, then running both plants at half capacity. A half idle plant wastes energy in both the construction and operation phase.
Tom H Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:45 pm

Right. I caught that also. This is probably the worst part of the article. If GM slips back into selling gas-guzzlers again,
———————————————————————————
GM will continue to do what they have tried to do for about 100 years now. Build and sell the cars people want to buy. If people want to buy gas guzzlers, GM will build and sell them.

Do you really think turning down profitable business, for which capacity already exists, is the way to get financially healthy?
Cautious Fan Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:47 pm

#60 Estero

I am convinced our best opportunity to have a positive influence on the world is to start by looking after ourselves
_______________________________________________________________
Not sure what exactly you meant by that? See the wikipedia link below regarding a time when we “just looked after ourselves.” Everyone else responded in kind and everyone suffered.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smoot-Hawley_Tariff_Act
solo2500nt Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:07 pm

250volt.

Interesting, (Sad for the family).

Since the explosion took place under the hood I’m willing to bet the battery did not cause the explosion, directly.

My guess is there was an under hood electrical short (those battery cables on a hybrid are heavy enough to run your house, seriously) that melted a gas line. When the owner turned on the key, a spark set the whole thing off.

My guess is hybrid components like the engine controller were responsible for the electrical short, however.
solo2500nt Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:11 pm

OOPS! Forgive me… I spoke too soon. Shouldn’t blame the Japanese technology…

It looks like the exploding Lexus may actually be a bomb blast.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,487907,00.html
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:12 pm

#62 k-dawg Says: “Is it going to be the EXACT same engine.. or will it be tweaked for the Volt?”
————————————————————————————–
It will be tweaked.

The camshaft will be tuned differently, probably for Atkinson cycle,
which increases efficiency at the expense of maximum power:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle

The firmware will run the engine at one of several fixed speeds, so the camshaft and exhaust system will probably be optimized for those particular RPMs.

The Volt won’t have a belt connected to the engine. The power steering, air conditioning, and water pump are all electrically driven, and the generator will be connected directly to the drive shaft.
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:22 pm

#71 Steven Says: “Gasoline is orders of magnitude more dangerous than hybrid batteries. How many thousands have been killed in explosions and fires in gas cars? Every car today is rolling down the street with a potential bomb in the gas tank. Yes, occasionally things happen but countless lives would be saved with batteries vs gas in accidents.”
————————————————————————————–
This is a great point.

All to often, people look at some new way of doing things, and if there is any risk, they won’t do it. It doesn’t seem to matter if the way they are doing it now has more risk than the new way.

A good decision always weighs the risks of doing nothing.
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:30 pm

#70 Joe Says: “This engine will have a limited RPM range and it will tweaked to it’s sweat spot. It lends itself to HCCI engines.”
————————————————————————————–
GM has said the Volt will use several fixed RPMs. This implies the difference between these fixed RPMs will be fairly wide.
http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/26/the-chevy-volt-generator-will-run-at-one-of-several-fixed-rpms/

GM has also said the first generation Volt will not be HCCI.
http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/28/breaking-volt-combustion-engine-still-undecided-wont-be-hcci-at-first/
noel park Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

I wonder if they are going to supply the standard engine, plus whatever “Atkinson Cyle” or other internal tweaks are required, to bolt to a generator/final drive package made here? Or will the whole package be built in Austria? Will the standard 1.4 block be used with some kind of an adapter analogous to a bellhousing used to mate it to the generator package, or will special blocks be required?

If the powertrain comes from Europe and the battery cells from Korea, pretty soon the US content is going to take quite a beating. I have to agree with other bloggers that, at some point, I have to wonder how appropriate it is to spend taxpayer “job creation” dollars to fund this.

Free trade is great if it flows in both directions. When your balance of payments is consistently in the hundreds of billions of dollars negative, it’s only a matter of time until the reckoning.
Samuel B. Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

Personally i think that this for of hybrid is a waste of time, it creates more polutants manufacturing this vehicle than you are going to save driving it. I think that GM should go back to the fully electric car like the EV1. The only reason they aren’t doing it is because there is no way to make money off it.
john1701a Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

Efficient vehicles won’t cut it. 50 MPG won’t make us energy independent. We need other fuel sources. We need plug-ins.
______________________________

Interesting how you didn’t actually state what will cut it.

Sure looks like a FULL hybrid with the plug-in option with an engine using cellulosic ethanol will serve us well over the next decade or two.

EREV alone won’t cut it either. There will be a technology mix, since need is diverse.
Pete K Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:41 pm

Well said, Jean-Charles Jacquemin (26), Cautious Fan (30) and Eurotrash (59) among others:

This site is fantastic UNTIL the “God Bless America Xenophobes” and “Go USA” posters start blowing their trumpets:

Is LG an American company?
Is Frank Weber (Volt Vehicle Line Executive) an American?
Would the US Space program have been where it is today without German know how?
Would the Volt move an inch every bit of non American input to the project were removed tomorrow?

mmm…thought so

Flags are for the Olympics – let it go, or go somewhere else!
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:44 pm

#73 Tom H Says: “… If people want to buy gas guzzlers, GM will build and sell them. Do you really think turning down profitable business, for which capacity already exists, is the way to get financially healthy?”
————————————————————————————–
World oil has peaked. Gas prices will rise again. Count on it.

If GM doesn’t plan ahead and gear up for higher gas prices now, they will fail.
Rashiid Amul Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:52 pm

I haven’t had time to read anything but the article.

I am just happy they are building the engine somewhere and not just
giving up because they aren’t selling anything lately.
MarkinWI Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

Pete K @ 83 – This is not a black and white issue. Where would the Chinese be if they quit pegging the Yuan to the Dollar, instead of letting the natural effects of their trade surplusses take their course? Would they sell as many goods if they costs twice as much? Would a few more American manufacturers be able to survive?

Jean-Claude’s comments are well taken. Eurotrash’s comments don’t deserve to be put in J.C.’s category. If you critque the “flag waivers,” be fair and critque the bashers as well.
Jeffhre Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:55 pm

Estero 51 “Misinformation is false or inaccurate information that is spread unintentionally. It is distinguished from disinformation by motive in that misinformation is simply erroneous, while disinformation, in contrast, is intended to mislead.”

Hilarious – just like all the posters who had no clue about GM’s direction, since they never paid attention to GM’s earlier statements, but tried their hand at pronouncing judgments anyway.
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 2:05 pm

#82 john1701a Says: “Sure looks like a FULL hybrid with the plug-in option with an engine using cellulosic ethanol will serve us well over the next decade or two.”
————————————————————————————–
John, I feel like I’m on a hamster wheel with you on this.

Hear me when I say – YES, a full hybrid plug-in with decent electric range/boost would work, especially when you throw in E85.

The problem is that Toyota has no plans to make such a vehicle. YES, third parties sell Prius conversion kits that will do this, but we will never get to mass market with a third party solution. It has to come directly from a major car maker.

YES, Toyota has announced preliminary fleet testing of a plug-in Prius, but with a small electric range boost that won’t be worth plugging in for most people. It has to eliminate most trips to the gas station to be convenient, otherwise it will never get mass market acceptance.

So to be clear,if Toyota made a plug-in that:
• has 30-40 miles of electric range/boost
• wasn’t some 3rd party conversion
• was priced around $30K or less after tax credits
I would probably buy that car over the Volt. But Toyota hasn’t announced a production date for anything like that. GM has.
CaptJackSparrow Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 2:06 pm

Anyone have any idea yet on who makes the Generator?
I’m interested in some specs. I know the ICE will have several points of “Sweet Spots” but What will the Kwh rating be at those sweetspots? Will it ever be pushed at the rated 53Kwh rating? Or is the 53Kwh rating a “Double up” and it will never reach that point?
noel park Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

If the Cruze is delayed, will GM gear up to build the (Delta?) platform for the Volt here? Isn’t the same platform the basis of an already existing Daewoo? How can the Cruze not be delayed if the Flint engine plant is delayed? So why not just use the Daewoo platform? H**l, just build the whole thing in Korea. I bet Daewoo has some excess capacity just now, right?

Better keep the jets though. Somebody will have to fly back and forth to supervise.

#83 Pete K.:

LOL. Reminds me of the great Tom Lehrer’s famous song from the ’50s, “Wehrner Von Braun”:

“When the rockets go up, who cares where they come down, ‘That’s not my department’, says Wehrner Von Braun.”

The US space program, brought to you by the same folks who gave you the V-1 and V-2. Never mind who actually built the hardware, and what their survival rate was.

If you don’t like the sound of the trumpet, better stick your finger in your ears.
Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 2:39 pm

#86 MarkinWI Says: “Where would the Chinese be if they quit pegging the Yuan to the Dollar, instead of letting the natural effects of their trade surplusses take their course? Would they sell as many goods if they costs twice as much? Would a few more American manufacturers be able to survive?”
————————————————————————————–
Yes, we would be much better off if China stopped manipulating their currency. But China is a communist country, and I believe they want their brand of communism to take over the world, so they are motivated to have the U.S. fail.
Joe Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 2:55 pm

In response to Dave G Says: @79

Thanks for the links,Dave.
I’ve read somewhere that the RPM range would be fairly close. I wished I could find that link.

A typical generator has to run at a certain RPM to maintain a constant voltage The Volt won’t be any different. The different ranges will probaby be for when the generator load increases to it’s maximum output and will directly power the electric motor.

As for fthe HCCI, I was just guessing since the RPM range will be very limited. in range, so i thought it lend itself to the Volt.
BillR1 Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 3:10 pm

#88 Dave the Hampster,

This attached presentation indicates that the world’s transportation is 96% dependent upon petroleum for energy. Conventional hybrids do nothing to change that percentage.

It also shows how E-REV will displace more petroleum and have lower emissions than PHEV’s, and by a significant amount.

http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/PDF/presentation-sm.pdf

Don’t be surprised, however, if some people still refuse to believe these benefits.
john1701a Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 3:26 pm

It also shows how E-REV will displace more petroleum and have lower emissions than PHEV’s, and by a significant amount.
__________________________

1-for-1 comparisons is a standard play out of the greenwashing handbook. Technical debates don’t equate to much.

Quantity sold is the true measure of impact.

4 of a less efficient type can outweigh 1 of another, and you can’t just ignore the other 3.
John Wells Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 3:44 pm

As long as we are talking about the ICE side of the equation : How about an update on what kind of mileage numbers GM is seeing after charge is depleted ? Maybe an update on how GM feels about their investment in Coskata ?
noel park Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 4:27 pm

Did anyone notice the story on the Yahoo page a few minutes ago about a Chinese man being killed by an exploding cell phone? Not the first either, according to the story.
First Chevy Volt engines will come from Aspern, Austria » Hybrid News Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 4:28 pm

[...] [Sou&#114c&#101: W&#97rd’&#115 &#65uto vi&#97 &#71M-V&#111lt] [...]
N Riley Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 4:39 pm

#67 250Volts

No where in the article for the link you provided did the word hybrid exist. So, How did you jump to the conclusion that it was a hybrid Lexus?
First Chevy Volt engines will come from Aspern, Austria | Only Hybrids Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 4:45 pm

[...] [Source: Ward's Auto via GM-Volt] [...]
Pete K Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 5:14 pm

MarkinWI (86)

It is indeed not a black and white issue (any more than it is a red, white and blue issue – which was my point), or even – as you have introduced – an all-red*issue. In short, I think you make my point for me!

*On which subject, (since you mention it) are the Chinese any less free to manipulate exchange rates than the House of Representatives is free to demand (as they currently are doing) that any steel used in any project funded by the $819-billion (US) stimulus bill must be made in the United States?

It’s not flag waving per-se that I bash, but rather flag waving that indicates no realisation of the interdependence that exists between all of us in the global economy. Nothing wrong with a bit of national pride and I’m all for being fair, but I’m not going to bash detractors of ‘blinkered’ flag waving because I happen to agree with those particular detractors!

Noel – thnx for catchin’ my drift and not taking offense (I’m quite a fan of the trumpet – I just prefer Big Band over solo virtuosity if you know what I mean!)

Anyhow, I’m sure we all here agree that we want to see the Volt built and on roads worldwide in large numbers. Hopefully that can happen bringing wealth and employment to many involved in its manufacture, regardless of the corner of the globe from which they play their part. We have a global problem. What better than a globally sourced solution?

nuff said.
Steve PA Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 5:22 pm

1, 2 ands several others, on the subject of where the engines would come from…

If memory serves correctly, GM mentioned well back in 2008 – well before announcement of cancelled contracts for the MI engine plant , the likely source of initial Volt ICEs would be its Opel operation. I believe that announcement was made around the time they decided to go from a turbo 4 to the normally aspirated 1.4 liter motor. So quite some time ago. This announcement just identifies a specific facility.
BillR1 Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 5:27 pm

“1-for-1 comparisons is a standard play out of the greenwashing handbook. Technical debates don’t equate to much.”

As I said, “Don’t be surprised, however, if some people still refuse to believe these benefits.”
stas peterson Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 5:33 pm

Noel Park #90,

You were the only one to penetrate to the only important and significant news in this report.

Others wasted their time about arguing about importing merely some 10,000 engines in 2010-2011 model year for the Volt. And blathering about political considerations.

The real issue is whether the Cruze aimed at hundreds of thousands of sales per year starting in Model year early 2010, or late 2009, will have their hundreds of thousands of engines imported, for assembly in the NA. Or whether that Cruze product, so important to GM’s health, is going to be delayed for a year or more.

Grow up people look at the real world impacts. If any of you geniuses bother to look at the exchange rate, it is such that NA can assemble vehicles and export to the EU, profitably. The reverse is not true. That is why the EU auto companies are madly building auto plants in NA. So the issue is not that GM won’t build a NA engine facility, but only when it can afford to do so.

If I had a conspiratorial bone in my body, and I laugh at those marxist clucks, I suspect that this Volt-only announcement, is a convenient ploy. So as to be able to use the taxpayer loans for the purpose of constructing that Family 0 engine plant, here.

Will GM announce a Cruze delay, or wait for post Feb 17th? Or wait until after the next tranche to make the announcement that many more than just the Volt’s 10,000 engines are sourced overseas for a year or two?

Bunco O’Dummy, the Chicago style political gangster, and his tax cheats, are probably too stupid to realize this, or more likely too cynically crafty. They won’t complain until afterwards, and then yell that they were betrayed.

It great politics to demonize American business when you are trying to nationalize major components of the US economy. Its stock Democratic rhetoric to demonize “heartless” Doctors, who cure us; “evil” pharmaceutical companies, who create our medicines; “stupid” Auto companies, who put us on wheels; “greedy” Oil companies, who provide our Energy; “destructive” big retailers, who provide us selections of inexpensive goods; and US health care, the best in the world. Too many here have bought that drivel.

The only people they don’t demonize are the corrupt lawyers who bleed our industries; and Hollywierd with their stupid magnates that confuse sex, and sensationalism with artistic talent. These people have much more money than brains and contribute to their contradictory and self-defeating campaigns, so they are safe, momentarily.

.
First Chevy Volt engines will come from Aspern, Austria | Gfeen.com Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

[...] [Source: Ward's Auto via GM-Volt] [...]
MarkJ Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 5:48 pm

I don’t care where the parts of made, just make the car. Get the parts wherever it is most cost effective. Assemble them wherever makes business sense. Just give me a quality EV at affordable price. Austrians, Koreans, Chinese etc, need jobs too.
MDDave Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 5:52 pm

cheaters @ 14 says: I hope Japanese will succeed, not GM. They are terrible and American stigma.

——————————–

I’d like to see GM succeed, but it would be even better if GM and the Japanese automakers succeed. And what’s so terrible about GM anyway?
MDDave Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 6:22 pm

beachliving @7 Says: Wow, that’s great so we can pollute the air and waste fuel too ship the motors across the ocean.. One for every Volt?

————————————-

Tom H @ 72 Says: Ocean freight is extremely energy efficient

————————————-

OK, but Austria isn’t adjacent to an ocean, so it seems that at least a few hundred miles of overland travel will be necessary in addition to an ocean voyage.
Mark Z Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 6:34 pm

Be happy the engines are made in Europe and won’t be affecting the balance of trade with China..

I want to know how long we will wait for a VOLT in So. Cal. since San Francisco and Washington DC get the VOLT first?
250volts Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 6:41 pm

N Riley 99 – Obviously the link (article) I cited was updated as it begins in the first paragraph as stating it was the result of a bomb. This was not known when I posted the link.
Ed M Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 6:42 pm

I can hardly wait for the first production model to roll off the line. I hope GM puts a little fanfare into it.
Jimmy Hodges Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:40 pm

GM needs to ask the government for money specifically intended to build this engine plant in America, specifically, Flint, MI. Construction workers, truck drivers, factory workers, this would create many jobs in a state that needs it the most. That would be a real economic stimulus package!

Get the tree huggers on board (I am sort of a tree hugger myself) Lets ship these engines 150 miles, across America! Not a few thousand miles.

How could the goverment say no? Put Americans back to work!!!
kdawg Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:41 pm

#62 Dave G Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:12 pm
#62 k-dawg Says: “Is it going to be the EXACT same engine.. or will it be tweaked for the Volt?”
————————————————————————————–
It will be tweaked.

The camshaft will be tuned differently, probably for Atkinson cycle,
which increases efficiency at the expense of maximum power:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atkinson_cycle

The firmware will run the engine at one of several fixed speeds, so the camshaft and exhaust system will probably be optimized for those particular RPMs.

The Volt won’t have a belt connected to the engine. The power steering, air conditioning, and water pump are all electrically driven, and the generator will be connected directly to the drive shaft.
————–

OK, So I dont understand the nay-sayers spout “because this is the Austrian engine, it won’t be any more efficient now”. Seems like the tweaking provides the extra efficiency.

Why/how would the generator be directly connected to the drive shaft? Wouldnt only the power wires from the generator connect to the motor or DC bus, or whatever. I dont see a mechanical linkage.
Len Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

The last time American steel was mandated it was for a bridge, and was to be used if it cost less than 25% more than the imported competition. Guess what, they paid 23% more for their steel. Had there not been that mandate they could still have bought American, but it would have cost a lot less.

If the first production model rolls off the line, I can guarentee fanfare.
CaptJackSparrow Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:52 pm

@kdawg 112
“Why/how would the generator be directly connected to the drive shaft?”

The ICE has a shaft and every generator has a shaft that requires to be turned so coils can cross magnetic flux lines. They’ll just engineer the ICE and the Generator to “Mate” together similar to the genset in the link nelow. Now that’s just for illustration but it gives the general idea.

http://www.polarpowerinc.com/home.htm
CaptJackSparrow Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:57 pm

I’ve read quite a few posts recomending the purchase of American products by Gvt. Remember, people chastise Gvt because of their spending. If Gvt agencies need to refresh their fleets, is it smarter to spend less of the tax payers money for more product or a shitload more to buy fewer US made products.

Think about it, how do you REALLY want the Gvt to spend OUR money.
Dave B Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

Cautious Fan @ 30,

Well said. We can learn a thing or two from our freinds in Europe. And as I learned from my sister who just returned from a trip overseas from plants in 3 Asian countries, the entire world is suffering now…not just the US.
DonC Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:31 pm

#26 Jean-Charles Jacquemin says “From here, that is Western Europe, it is disturbing to see all the protectionist reflexions in the site.”

This issue of where the engines or batteries come from is wholly misguided. If the Volt sells in numbers and the cost of transportation goes up then everything will be made here. Until then the only sensible path for GM is to leverage its world wide resource base. The basic economics of the situation explains why the Japanese manufacturer better selling cars and trucks here and import lower volume vehicles from Japan. FWIW the higher the cost of oil the more economic incentive to manufacture locally.

Moreover, reciprocal trade does benefit everyone. With the exception of France, which is a invariably a huge PITA, Europe is a very good trade partner.
Jeffhre Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

VoltZealot “in short, new immigrants, especially illegal ones, do NOT make enough to pay into the system to help the economy, or even close to paying their own retirements(soc security etc). When you subtract the costs of welfare, crime/prisons, social programs, you find that almost ALL immigrants are a net drag on the system, and will NOT save Social Security or any other programs(let alone the economy), even by the 3rd generation here.”

This has been said about every immigrant group since the 1760’s. Ben Franklin used your exact words long before social security to talk about German immigrants. Lo and behold with such a handicap, we’ve still managed to form the worlds most dynamic economy, that even now is globally depended on for prosperity. Henry Ford made immigrant employees prosperous car owners. Russian and Cuban immigrants made the people most likely to be newly minted millionaires in the 1990’s immigrants also. But your mind is already made up, so when you go to look up the real facts, next time try not to miss all the evidence for this side of the argument. Reread some of the posts here without so much bias and they can be really informative.
Dave K. =D~ Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:44 pm

hi Dave B #116,

“the entire world is suffering now…not just the US.”

_____________________________

Think last years $4.25 price for a gallon of gasoline had something to do with it? Europe prices must have been in the teens!

Go Volt

=D~
Jeffhre Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:47 pm

VoltZealot

I admit I was a little parochial in my last post.

If you are a Native American Indian then I see you have a legitimate social gripe, but that doesn’t improve your economic analysis.
Koz Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:51 pm

Gsned57 #45

You have a very good point made poorly. Yes, GM needs to make sobering financial decisions to maximize the cash on hand and show responsiveness to the government’s terms. But, I don’t understand why you chose to reinforce that very valid point with such massive exaggeration as “I don’t want them to continue paying workers twice as much as Toyota of America.” Sensible arguments don’t require such hyperbole.

Make it good by keeping it real.
gsned57 Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 9:08 pm

Koz 121,
____________________________________

Gsned57 #45

You have a very good point made poorly. Yes, GM needs to make sobering financial decisions to maximize the cash on hand and show responsiveness to the government’s terms. But, I don’t understand why you chose to reinforce that very valid point with such massive exaggeration as “I don’t want them to continue paying workers twice as much as Toyota of America.” Sensible arguments don’t require such hyperbole.

Make it good by keeping it real.
_________________________________________________

My mind wanders. I’ll try to keep to the topic and save my labor rate opinions for that thread when it comes up Thanks for the critique

NPNS
vincent Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 9:20 pm

Good Move. Why build a plant with down global sales.
Also this leaves money to build the CONVERJ body and make TWO EREVS.

Here is the silver lining people.
Bob…Build the CONVERJ Buddy!
It’s a direct bolt on to the platform. Lets go man!
Take a Viagra and kick some ass!
Justin DT Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 9:34 pm

Re the Austrian engine/generator, do we know any cars that already use it? It would be good if someone knows a European car with the GM 1.4L (e.g. the Corsa?): then we could read reviews and see what the generator in the Volt will be like, i.e. fuel consumption and yes, smoothness/quietness. Ideas anyone?
kdawg Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 9:48 pm

#114 CaptJackSparrow
They’ll just engineer the ICE and the Generator to “Mate” together similar to the genset in the link nelow.

————-

I was calling the ICE & the generator the same thing. When reading Dave G’s post, he was talking about the drive shaft, which doesn’t make sense to me.
john1701a Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:43 pm

But Toyota hasn’t announced a production date for anything like that. GM has.
____________________________

GM has said all kinds of stuff over the years… quite of bit of which never materialized.

Other automakers have learned from that and refrained from announcing until close to production. The best example is Prius. October 1997 it was revealed to the world. No one saw that coming. It was a complete surprise. But what really blew everyone away was the fact that sales began just 2 months later. Kind of makes the 4 years for Volt rather underwhelming, eh?

Point is, GM is spreading itself thin. Investing in EREV and Two-Mode and BAS+ all while continuing to push non-hybrids makes you wonder what the “annoucements” will really equate to… especially with the bailout.
ccombs Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 11:53 pm

#43 and #26 –

Thank you, finally there are some people who realize that protectionism will just screw everyone over. “America first” sounds appealing to Americans, but so does “Europe first” for Europeans, ad infinitum. It would be catastrophic to start down the road of protectionism again- that is what killed the US auto and steel industry in the 70s.
Rashiid Amul Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 6:58 am

127 ccombs,

And If I remember my history correctly, it also helped make the Great Depression worse.
drG Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 7:49 am

Well, so much for the “American Revolution” crap the GM has been spewing over the airwaves…
BillR1 Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 8:03 am

#127 ccombs,

And look what protectionism has done to Japan’s economy!
Dave G Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 8:04 am

#93 BillR1 Says: “This attached presentation … shows how E-REV will displace more petroleum and have lower emissions than PHEV’s, and by a significant amount.
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/PDF/presentation-sm.pdf”
————————————————————————————–
Two points:

1) This presentation seems to promote Fool Sells as the ultimate objective, which makes it a lot less credible.

2) The presentation uses the Saturn Vue plug-in as the example PHEV, which has an anemic 8 miles of electric range/boost. My point in post #88 is that PHEVs with 30-40 miles of electric boost together with ethanol also has the potential to replace gasoline.

As a curiosity, I used my average yearly driving spreadsheet to get a rough idea of the gallons of gasoline used per year for various types of cars. Here are the results:

Vehicle ……………… Gallons per year
Volt (EREV-40) …….. 37
Vue PHEV-10 ………. 293
Prius PHEV-10 …….. 182
Prius PHEV-40 …….. 100
Prius HEV …………… 228
Vue HEV ……………. 380
20 MPG car ………… 570

So the Volt is definitely the best, but a Prius PHEV-40 is not too shabby either, which contradicts GM’s presentation.
Dave G Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 8:24 am

#125 kdawg Says: “I was calling the ICE & the generator the same thing. When reading Dave G’s post, he was talking about the drive shaft, which doesn’t make sense to me.”
————————————————————————————–
Right. I meant to say crank-shaft. My bad.

==================================================

#112 kdawg Says: “Wouldnt only the power wires from the generator connect to the motor or DC bus, or whatever. I dont see a mechanical linkage.
————————————————————–
Right. No mechanical linkage. It works like this:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzenu6hr/ebay_pictures/Volt_Electrical_Block_Diagram.jpg
john1701a Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 9:27 am

It works like this
_________________

#2 gives the false impression that battery charging won’t take place during normal driving. In reality, road & traffic variations will cause electricity to be routed that way very frequently. After all, that’s how the engine is able to maintain a fairly constant RPM.

It’s normal to see that excess 10 times per minute while cruising on the highway with Prius. The ability to rapidly adjust electricity flow is what makes having 2 electric motors in both FULL & SERIES hybrids so advantageous.
Dave G Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 9:50 am

#133 john1701a Says: “In reality, road & traffic variations will cause electricity to be routed that way very frequently. After all, that’s how the engine is able to maintain a fairly constant RPM.”
————————————————————————————–
Constant RPM doesn’t mean constant power output. The power and fuel consumption vary greatly within each of the fixed RPMs.

From what we’ve been told, Volt’s software will vary the ICE’s power output to follow the demands of the electric motor as closely as possible. This has 2 benefits:

1) It lowers the wear on the battery, which is particularly important for a charge depleting battery chemistry.

2) It’s more efficient. Remember that electrical->chemical->electrical conversions have some efficiency losses.

So it appears that the ICE will provide the all the electricity to the motor except for hard acceleration and fast uphill driving.
GM Volt Fan Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 10:27 am

131. Dave G.

I like that spreadsheet you came up with. That’s the best thing of all about the Volt …. GASOLINE DISPLACEMENT.

Vehicle ……………… Gallons per year
Volt (EREV-40) …….. 37
Vue PHEV-10 ………. 293
Prius PHEV-10 …….. 182
Prius PHEV-40 …….. 100
Prius HEV …………… 228
Vue HEV ……………. 380
20 MPG car ………… 570

It’s good for us drivers and BAD for “Big Oil” and the fatcat Middle East oil sheiks who’ve been making GIGANTIC profits at our expense for years.

Hmmm …. 37 gallons per customer per year for people with Voltec cars vs. 570 gallons per customer per year for people still driving today’s cars. People with Voltec cars using only 6% of the gasoline that today’s cars do? That’s heresy to Big Oil! It’s gotta be freaking out Hugo Chavez and the other petrodictators around the world. It’s going to REALLY freak them out if the price of the batteries goes way down in the next 5 years or so. I LOVE it.
BillR1 Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 10:56 am

#131 Dave G,

I’m going to have to disagree and say that the GM presentation is extremely thorough.

“1) This presentation seems to promote Fool Sells as the ultimate objective, which makes it a lot less credible.”

Actually, this all depends upon the political climate, and GM needs to be prepared for the future. If CO2 taxes become exhorbident, or zero CO2 emission vehicles are mandated, then fuel cells are the right direction. Note fuel cells are shown also because they have the lowest emissions (think E-REV with fuel cell range extender).

I’m not arguing with the fact that producing, transporting, and storing hydrogen is as efficient or practical as batteries or biofuels, just that 40 years down the road that we may have no choice. Note that other than one slide, GM did not include fuel cells in any of the evaluation.

———————————————
“2) The presentation uses the Saturn Vue plug-in as the example PHEV, which has an anemic 8 miles of electric range/boost. My point in post #88 is that PHEVs with 30-40 miles of electric boost together with ethanol also has the potential to replace gasoline.”

Granted, however, a PHEV-40 would also need a large battery pack, and this would not be a simple conversion; factory, aftermarket or otherwise. I also don’t see ethanol totally replacing the US gasoline consumption, or even replacing 50%, but of course, everything helps.

So again, this is a very comprehensive report that includes projected global increases in energy requirements, US grid energy profile, a schematic of energy supply and energy carriers, and an analysis of US driving habits and the ability of different vehicle types to displace petroleum and reduce emissions. If you have something you think is better, I’d like to see it.
Dave G Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 11:53 am

#136 BillR1 Says: “If CO2 taxes become exorbitant, or zero CO2 emission vehicles are mandated, then fuel cells are the right direction. Note fuel cells are shown also because they have the lowest emissions (think E-REV with fuel cell range extender).”
————————————————————————————–
Don’t even get me started…

Fuel cells produce more CO2 than a regular gasoline hybrid.
http://www.stanford.edu/group/greendorm/participate/cee124/TeslaReading.pdf
(see table on page 4)

Hydrogen is the biggest scam going. It’s the oil companies that are pushing hydrogen. They know it will never work, and if it does, hydrogen will be made from natural gas like it is now. That’s why they call them Fool Sells. They are meant to deceive us. Classic red herring.

Why a hydrogen economy doesn’t make sense
http://www.physorg.com/news85074285.html
Dave G Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 12:06 pm

#136 BillR1 Says: “Granted, however, a PHEV-40 would also need a large battery pack, and this would not be a simple conversion; factory, aftermarket or otherwise. I also don’t see ethanol totally replacing the US gasoline consumption, or even replacing 50%, but of course, everything helps.”
————————————————————————————–
Yes, a PHEV-40 would be an unusual beast. Fitting in the battery pack without losing the spare tire and keeping the pack serviceable, that would probably require a new chassis like the Volt. I believe the Volt is a better design than a PHEV-40, but if the Volt has problems with availability, affordability, or reliability, I’m just pointing out that a PHEV-40 could be a viable alternative.

As for Ethanol, I agree that replacing 50% of gas consumption is not realistic, not now anyway. But 35% may be possible:
http://www.coskata.com/EthanolFeedstockPotential.asp

The combination of plug-ins and ethanol has the potential to replace all gasoline.
Dave G Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 12:12 pm

#135 GM Volt Fan Says: “People with Voltec cars using only 6% of the gasoline that today’s cars do? That’s heresy to Big Oil! It’s gotta be freaking out Hugo Chavez and the other petrodictators around the world.”
————————————————————————————–
Actually, it looks like Chavez hasn’t gotten the memo yet…

Chavez doubts U.S. can shake oil needs
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/02/03/venezuela.chavez/index.html?iref=newssearch
stas peterson Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 1:00 pm

EREV architecture probably will not suffice for very large LDVs that have a towing or hauling duty as well. Dual-mode PHEVs may be what is necessary for full size trucks and large SUVS.. They have been shown to be practical as HEVs, but not as PHEVs to obtain better fuel economy, yet.
Dave G Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 2:03 pm

#140 stas peterson Says: “EREV architecture probably will not suffice for very large LDVs that have a towing or hauling duty as well.”
————————————————————————————–
Heavy duty long distance travel by air, land, and sea will require liquid fuels. Algae bio-fuels seems to hold the most promise here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ih-DLurcZA
BillR1 Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 2:17 pm

#137 Dave G

“Fuel cells produce more CO2 than a regular gasoline hybrid.
http://www.stanford.edu/group/greendorm/participate/cee124/TeslaReading.pdf
(see table on page 4)”

Actually, this study is too narrow to be taken seriously. The table on page 4 assumes hydrogen for the fuel cell comes from conventional natural gas reforming. In this limited scenario, the study is correct.

However, if the hydrogen comes from natural gas reforming that includes CO2 capture and sequestration (CCS as it is referred to in the industry), then the fuel cell has lower well-to-wheels CO2 (approximately 1/10 of the value shown in the table). This would also include hydrogen from electricity such as wind, solar, and nuclear.

Again as I stated before, this is not efficient as your references state, and the direct use of electricity is best, however, if CO2 legislation or taxes are restrictive enough, hydrogen fuel may be necessary when battery power is expended. Especially for larger long distance vehicles (trucks) as Stas Peterson notes in #140.
BillR1 Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

#138 Dave G

“The combination of plug-ins and ethanol has the potential to replace all gasoline.”

Dave, is it you who has shown in the past how much oil is used in various sectors of the economy, i.e. transportation, chemical, industrial, etc? If so, you know that gasoline only accounts for a portion of all oil consumption.

Although I believe all energy sources are good (wind, solar, nuclear, biomass, etc.), I believe the best chance that we have to totally eliminate oil imports is through CBTL (coal-biomass to liquids).

If the project shown here can use biomass with CCS, the fuel produced is pretty much carbon neutral, and can be used for aircraft, diesel trucks, automobiles, home heating oil, etc.

http://www.baardenergy.com/orcf.htm

I see this technology as being our best bet to totally eliminate imported oil.
john1701a Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 3:33 pm

Constant RPM doesn’t mean constant power output.
_____________________________

That was my point as well.

What you still missed was the fact that there will be minute amounts of excess electricity routinely generated as a result of normal driving.

Why waste that electricity? Prius doesn’t. It’s routed to the battery. The flow only lasts a few seconds and is only a fraction of what’s being consumed at that same time by the traction motor. But every little bit adds up.
Dave G Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 3:36 pm

#143 BillR1 Says: “Dave, is it you who has shown in the past how much oil is used in various sectors of the economy,”
————————————————————————————–
It all depends on the scope of the discussion. When we talk of EREVs, we’re talking about dramatically reducing or eliminating gasoline use. When we talk of our dependence on foreign oil, then yes, gasoline is only a part of the problem. If we talk of energy independence, then we have to talk about natural gas as well, since we import more natural gas than we export.

As for coal-to-liquids, one of the problems is the quality of the coal. While, it’s true that we have enough coal to last until 2100, it’s also true that the best quality coal has already been mined, and most of what’s left is lower grade, which means it takes more energy to extract coal to liquids.

A better answer may be algae. 95% of the oil that’s in the ground today came from ancient algae. Algae doesn’t have a structure of stems and leaves like other plants, so algae produces much less cellulose and much more vegetable oil. Vegetable oil can be processed into bio-diesel and jet fuel very easily. As a comparison:
• Corn produces 18 gallons of vegetable oil per acre per year
• Palm produces 800 gallons of vegetable oil per acre per year
• Algae produces 20,000 gallons of vegetable oil per acre per year

If you haven’t already, it’s definitely worth 3 minutes to watch the algae video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ih-DLurcZA
Dave G Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 3:55 pm

#144 john1701a Says: “What you still missed was the fact that there will be minute amounts of excess electricity routinely generated as a result of normal driving.”
————————————————————————————–
Right. I would guess the Volt also has minute amounts of electricity routinely flowing between the ICE and the battery during extended range operation. Also, induction motors have lots of unusual eddy currents, so there may be very small moments where current flows from the motor to the battery even while you’re accelerating. But the key words here are minute and very small, as in less than 1%. So I’m not sure changing the diagrams to reflect this would help with basic understanding.
ron erickson Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

GM stock price today closed at $2.86 per share. I hope they don’t go out of business. If they don’t, do you want to tell your children you bought the stock of the leading electric powered car at $2.86 in 2009. Think about it!
ron erickson Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 6:46 pm

Has anyone calculated the energy cost of CO2 capture and sequestration (CCS as it is referred to in the industry)? This techonolgy is further out than fusion and Fool Cells. It is simply a ploy by the Dirty Fuels System to keep the status quo. This technology is not remotely feasible on a cost effective basis.
BillR1 Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 7:49 pm

#148 Ron Erickson

The DOE currently has billions of dollars to help fund projects that demonstrate CCS.

For more background info, see this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage

Note that Great Plains Coal Gasification actually separates CO2 from their process, compress it, and send it to Saskatchewan for Enhanced Oil Recovery. They are paid for this CO2, because it allows an oil well to produce about 65% more oil than normal. CO2 is excellent for displacing oil lodged in underground formations (better than steam) so it is highly desired by owners of declining oil wells.

Other presentations I have seen state that a carbon (CO2) tax of $25 per ton will equate to business as usual, however, $50 per ton or higher will pay for CCS.
ron erickson Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 8:27 pm

I think the legacy programs in the DOE are there to support the Dirty Fuels System and the status quo. I support the Volt and its break with the Dirty Fuels System. At today’s prices, the Volt’s electricity will cost 1/8th of the gasoline price at the pump. The Dirty Fuels System is spending an incredible amount of money on advertising to mislead the energy debate. Hydrogen Fool Cells and CCS are programs sponsored by the DOE and the lobbyists from the Dirty Fuels System to keep solutions “in the future”. The money will be far better spent researching further advances in battery technology. A gasoline motor has nearly 250 moving parts all moving in diferent directions. An electric motor has one moving part with orders of magnitudes of energy efficiency over the gasoline engine. We need a change. CCS and Hydrogen Fool Cells are programs that have been created as obstacles to change by the Dirty Fuels System.
john1701a Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 8:46 pm

But the key words here are minute and very small, as in less than 1%.
________________________________

Then how come the diagram illustrates regenerative braking?

At least a dashed line & arrow should be added.
LB Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 9:38 pm

I’ll wait for the American engine, or will shop elsewhere.
Guy Incognito Says:
February 6th, 2009 at 1:24 pm

-GM Engines made in Austria.
-GM to Invest $1 Billion in Brazil Operations from Taxpayer Bailout.

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?CategoryId=12396&ArticleId=320909

General Motors, I’m through with you.
wwskinn3 Says:
February 9th, 2009 at 10:34 pm

Sounds to me like this Volt thing is coming apart. Went to the Houston Auto Show last week – the Ford Escape was very impressive and price wasn’t too bad either.
Drifter Says:
February 11th, 2009 at 3:30 am

GM was dumb in the past and missed the boat!
why are we thinking they have changed?
they will fade away becasue they are stupid!
GM could just buy Tesla – why don’t they?
LG makes the batteries becasue GM is to stupid!
motors come from Austris becasue GM is to stupid!
GM NEVER made a good car – even Corvettes suck!
compare the new VW Golf engine technology with GM!
GM people are useless, cigar smoking assholes!
I don’t even know where you can buy interior plastic that crappy!
the Volt will flop – 40miles on battery – you got to be kidding!
just put a friggin bigger batttey in it! Ups – they cannot even make one.
maybe we should just give them more billions?

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