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GM Announces Initiative to Get Communities “Plug-in Ready” for the Volt

February 3rd, 2009 | Posted in: Charging, Grid, Production

Today marks another distinct turning point in the story of the Chevrolet Volt. From the beginning the focus has been on the batteries and the engineering. Now GM has outlined a comprehensive plan of action for communities to begin to get ready for the arrival of plug-in cars like the Chevy Volt.

They have announced they have begun work with stakeholders in certain regions such as San Francisco and Washington DC to develop policies and enablers to accelerate the adoption of electric vehicles.

Ed Peper, manager of Chevrolet said “the Chevy Volt is truly coming to life, but preparing the market for electric vehicles also requires capable partners from outside the auto industry.”

GM is advising that people like us begin to prepare our communities to be plug-in ready. This means several things. Key stakeholders involved in the discussions should include:
-State, city and county governments
-Electric utilities
-Regulators/public utility commissions
-Permitting and code officials
-Clean Cities coalitions

The following incentives are suggested to promote local consumer adoption:
-public and workplace charging infrastructure
-consumer-friendly electricity rates and renewable electricity options
-government and corporate vehicle purchases
-supportive permitting and codes for vehicle charging
-other incentives such as high-occupancy-vehicle (HOV) lane access

It was also noted that GM has being actively working with 40 national utility companies and the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) to pave the way for the Volt, and is playing a leading role with the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) to develop the standards for a vehicle charging interface.

Ed Peper also said “we know plenty of work still remains, both within and outside of GM, But today’s and other recent announcements underscore the comprehensive work being done to bring the Chevrolet Volt and other electrically driven vehicles to market – and they also highlight why we are so optimistic about the ultimate success of the Volt.”

To get the ball rolling right here on GM-Volt.com we have started a new Forum that people can use to begin organizing plug-in readiness initiatives in their own communities.

Source (GM)

Posted by: Lyle

162 Responses to “GM Announces Initiative to Get Communities “Plug-in Ready” for the Volt”

charlie h Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:44 am

I have a plulg in my garage. Why should the public be spending anything to support the Volt?

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Dwayne Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:44 am

Go Volt! Maybe GM should initate an all electric car show – invite the entire auto industry to get excited about the new world a comming!

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Gordon Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:49 am

Now it’s getting exciting. Sounds like VOLT might be closer than we think. [Hoping.]

If the VOLT has a combined Electric and Gas/Electric range of 400 to 500 miles per tank, why would there be a need for “Publice Charging Stations” ? Wouldn’t that be any nearby wall plug?

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max bradey Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:49 am

come on GM. HAVE YOU FAILED TO NOTICE ELECTRICITY IS, WITH MINOR EXCEPTION, AVAILABLE TO EVERONE WHO ALREADY OWNS A CAR IN THESE UNITED STATES? ANY ELECTRICITY USED TO CHARGE THE VOLT BATTERIES WILL CERTAINLY BE FAR, FAR LESS THAN THE NORMAL YEARLY GROWTH MOST FOLKS EXPERIENCE JUST ADDING MODERN ELECTRICAL APPLIANCES………. GM JUST BUILD THE CAR……FORGET THE REST! MAX

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Richard Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:55 am

Why should the public be spending money on supporting the Volt?

Good question. Where I live (Missouri), we are having rolling power failures because the electrical grid has not been dramatically update for years. The supply currently can’t handle the demand in the mornings when everything gets switched on. Just image how many areas will have similar problems when 10,000 volts plug in.

While you may not be purchasing a Volt, electrical upgrades will cost us all… but we will all benefit.

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Gsned57 Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:58 am

I think they’re talking about getting the electric companies to give preferred rates to those of us who will charge our cars at night. Also if you want to charge your volt in half the time you’ll need to get 220 running to your garage.

As for local governments, maybe have tax breaks for EV’s (no excise tax in Massachusetts) or possibly free registration at the DMV. Townships can forgo the permitting cost if people are running 220 to their garage for EV reasons. There are plenty of things local governments can do to encourage people to buy the VOLT that I’m all for. On the other hand, I really don’t want my taxes to go up so people can charge at parking meters until there are enough EV’s out there to make it worth while. In my area I’ll help push for policy favoring EV’s, but I think it’s a waste at this point to try and predict infrastructure needs for the volt especially since gas stations currently exist.

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Ray Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:59 am

The power draw on an individual home is not going to be overwhelming.. I anticipate (with the amount of driving that I do) an increase of up to $ 50.00 / month for having a Volt charge up every night.. But I will aslo be saving (at $1.05 /liter and yes it will be back up there shortly) $100.00 – 150.00 in fuel savings.. It is going to take LOT of Electric vehicles on the road to make much of a dent in power consumpson here (Central Alberta Canada). It will not draw a whole lot more that using your electric dryer for a couple of extra loads of laundry every other day.
As for public plug ins … We already have them in most of the major business parking lots for employees… Almost every car here has a block heater and employers want to keep their people happy..

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brad Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:13 am

The public should spend money on getting the nation ready for the volt. The faster the U.S. adobts the volt technology the better. Why…….. This is a national security concern. The wacko in Venezula doesn’t believe the U.S. can stop its oil addiction. We went to the moon to show the world we are on top. Its time to use our technology once again to prove we are still on top.

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carcus1 Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:15 am

“GM is advising that people like us begin to prepare our communities to be plug-in ready. This means several things. Key stakeholders involved in the discussions should include:
-State, city and county governments
-Electric utilities………..”
______________________________________________________

From wiki:

The average state + federal tax on fuel is about .50c/gallon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_tax

If everybody goes electric, the man’s going to want his money back.
____________________________________________________

#1 Charlie H.,

The plug you have in your garage doesn’t have a special coding device that can determine how much electricity is going into your vehicle so that you can get electric vehicle power taxes assessed.

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Michael Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:17 am

#1

So young, so naive.

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Jim I Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:19 am

This discussion is much better than yesterday’s…..

Until there are some real standards for all manufacturers concerning charging and plug configurations, it makes little sense to start building public charging stations in the cities.

And the real advantage is the charging of these cars at night, when there is spare capacity.

Also, if you start charging twice per day, then won’t the batteries wear out in 1/2 the time? The can only charge / discharge so many times. I can’t remember exactly, but wasn’t that number 5000 cycles? If that is correct, and you start charging twice per day, you will have a worn out battery pack in under seven years. It is something to consider.

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carcus1 Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:23 am

#11 Jim I,

“Also, if you start charging twice per day, then won’t the batteries wear out in 1/2 the time?”
_______________________________________________________

If you charge your battery from 75% back to 100%, that only counts as 1/4 of a cycle. (maybe less). At least as far as laptop computer lithium ion is concerned, they recommend you “charge early, charge often” for better battery life.

Disclaimer: I’m no expert, that’s just what I’ve read.

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Joe Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:24 am

I suspect places like Walmart and other large stores will have parking charging stations to attract buyers to their stores. Actually, this trend could spread like wildfire. Navigation systems could play a major roll with plug-in vehicles.An example, let say you are on the highway and don’t have enough electric power to get home. You could locate a store with a charging station and decide to do some shopping now versus later and ultimately get home only on battery power. I CAN NOT WAIT FOR THOSE DAYS!!!!

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charlie h Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:25 am

#5, Richard, “Where I live (Missouri), we are having rolling power failures because the electrical grid has not been dramatically update for years.”

That’s a problem that the electric utilities of Missouri should fix, whether or not there is a Volt. Peak/off peak pricing would go a long way to resolving your problems.

Recharge your Volt after 12AM. Your Volt doesn’t need peak power, when the rolling blackouts occur.

#9, Carcust, “The plug you have in your garage doesn’t have a special coding device that can determine how much electricity is going into your vehicle so that you can get electric vehicle power taxes assessed.”

And why would I want to pay for THAT? And if I did pay for that, why would I not then run an extension cord from another part of the house? And why would I want to pay for this in someone else’s house, if I didn’t have my own Volt?

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solo2500nt Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:26 am

I for one do not want the government involved at all. I can see it now. You plug into a ’smart’ charger somewhere. That smart charger reads your odometer and other telemetry data and sends it to a government agency. The government agency then sends you a road tax bill for all the gas you didn’t buy.

No thanks. The best part of an electric car is screwing the government out of money they will squander on third world abortions, condom’s in grade school bathrooms, and studies to see why bald eagles won’t reproduce when there are environmentalist watching them sleep in their nest.

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N Riley Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:29 am

Someone must lead the way and I am glad it is GM. They have the will to do this and the people to see it through. GM will gain better green marks because of this.

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N Riley Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:34 am

#1 charlie h

“I have a plulg in my garage. Why should the public be spending anything to support the Volt?”
———————-

GM does not see the infrastructure limited to just our garages. They know that even with the Volt and it range extending ICE selling good sometime in the future, there will be many fully electric vehicles (BEV) needing to plug-in at work or at shopping malls to insure they can get back home. Even with electric vehicles reaching 250 miles on a charge someday there will be a need of plug-in ports around town.

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Joe Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:35 am

Gordan @ # 3

If the VOLT has a combined Electric and Gas/Electric range of 400 to 500 miles per tank, why would there be a need for “Publice Charging Stations” ? Wouldn’t that be any nearby wall plug?

*************************************************************************************

The biggest reason for most people is the saving….the price of gas versus the price of electricity. About 75 cents of electricity is equals a gallon of gasoline. Which do you rather use?
The other reason is to get off oil and keep 700 billion dollars per year in this country instead of giving it to countries that promotes terrorism.

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k-dawg Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:36 am

#13 Joe – that’s what i was thinking. If you were a business owner, you’d be smart to put a charging station or 2 in your lot. It will cost you a few pennies of electricity, but i’m sure you’ll make that up in product sales. Now how do you keep non-plug in cars from parking in those spots? If you put up signs.. will anyone enforce it?

In general, i see public charging stations needed everywhere. Someone mentioned gas tax. Profits off of public pay-meter charge stations could make up for those lost taxes.

Apartments would also be smart to put in charging stations. If i had to choose between 2 apartment complexes and one had a charging station for my Volt.. it would be a no-brainer.

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RB Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:43 am

To this time it really does not matter what happens with the electrical infrastructure, as related to automotive in general or the Volt in particular. Until GM is prepared to sell far more cars than they have announced they will make, and until GM is prepared to distribute them far more widely than they have so far announced (for the moment basically a CA and DC car, maybe a sprinkling in NY TX FL), any public money that was spent would be wasted.

I wonder if Mr. Peper is thinking more along marketing lines than about anything involving any kind of real need for action. Maybe he is thinking that it would be nice if everyone else was thinking about a possible new GM vehicle, well before it arrives, just trying to rev up the public, so to speak. Mr Peper is, after all, manager of Chevrolet, not some kind of electrical power specialist, so thinking about marketing the Volt would be a logical step

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Starcast Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:46 am

I don’t understand why GM would care about this on the Volt. If 70% of the people will only need to charge once a day?

Something more is at work here. Is GM also working on a all electric car we don’t know about?

off topic (but true and funny)
Jay Leno: “There was a huge scientific breakthrough today. Researchers say they are very close to finding someone from Obama’s Cabinet who’s actually paid their taxes.”

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RB Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:47 am

#19 k-dawg says
Apartments would also be smart to put in charging stations. If i had to choose between 2 apartment complexes and one had a charging station for my Volt.. it would be a no-brainer
——————————————-

Apartment owners will figure this out very quickly, if, as and when there is a demand from actual or prospective tenants. It is a competitive market and stable, good tenants equal money in the bank.

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DonC Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:49 am

You need a special plug for all kinds of reasons. First there are the safety reasons, including insuring the car won’t start if it’s plugged in and not frying yourself in wet weather.

Then there are the practical issues, chief among them being able to have charging stations for the many people who park curbside at night — in San Francisco the percentage is over 50%.

Finally you have charging convenience. You need a special plug to accommodate 220V — current law prohibits using a 200 line to charge a car in the US (though boats are OK, go figure). The plug will also be able to handle the higher amperage needed for fast charging.

The standard is SAE J1772. There were some earlier pics of it. You can see one here:
http://et.epri.com/documents/12.11.08_IWC_PHEV_presentations/02_Kissel_December_2008.pdf

Coulomb Technologies just recently demonstrated a plug for their charging stations. They make charging stations and you may want to check them out. Interesting stuff. Following up on #22 RB’s comment, Coulomb is, among other things, targeting multi-family buildings. (I think I’ve heard that they also have a credit card swipe charger where the charger is locked into place until the card is swiped a second time, thereby preventing someone from “stealing” the charge you’re paying for.)

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RB Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:55 am

#23 DonC on reasons why a special plug is needed.
———————————————–

I don’t find any of these reasons persuasive. People plug in all sorts of things right now without this kind of plug. The reasons are no doubt correct to some degree, but they seem to me more like rationalizations for an expensive proprietary plug that can come only from Chevrolet dealers. Unfortunately, they also become a small but real reason not to buy a Volt, for someone otherwise on the fence.

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Neil Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:56 am

>If everybody goes electric, the man’s going to want his money back.

Very true. It will happen in some manner.

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CDAVIS Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:03 am

______________________________________________________
A market supply naturally chases a market demand.

If GM gets the VOLTEC platform into dealership lots at an affordable price and at high volume, all the other ancillary VOLTEC support items will naturally follow; no need for fancy comities, organizations, meetings, initiatives and hype. Utility companies will be eager to sell more electricity and apartment/office complexes will be eager to facilitate plug-in locations to maintain a competitive edge.
______________________________________________________
Electric Cars + Nuclear Power = American Energy Independence!
______________________________________________________

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Steve Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:06 am

Just make your products GM and stay out of distractions like comminuty initiatives. If your product is good, people will adapt to use it.

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Guy Incognito Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:08 am

The best way to get communities plug in ready for the Volt is to advertise.
Advertise in all media….internet, print, radio, television etc.
There is one problem with advertising, sometimes it causes you to sell out of product.

See the USA in your Chevrolet.

_-=

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charlie h Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:09 am

#18, Joe, “The biggest reason for most people is the saving….the price of gas versus the price of electricity.”

Then people should be willing to pay for metered electric, coing or card operated, at curbs, in parking lots and in public parking garages.

—

Anyway, I want to change my initial response to, “Just build the blasted cars, already, and once you’ve done that, we’ll figure out how to get the electricity to them.”

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Joe Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:10 am

solo2500nt Says: @15

I for one do not want the government involved at all.

************************************************************************************

In as much most people hate our government, this country could not survive without it. All you have to do is look at it’s history. Our government has done many good things and continues to do so. Be real!! Not everything can be left to individual states. The government has to overlook all the states, otherwise every state might as well be a country. Don’t kid yourself, Our government as inept as it is sometime, can do a lot of good. In our case with the Volt, they can help in many different ways. Here’s a recent example of government involvement.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=government&articleId=9127238&taxonomyId=13&intsrc=kc_top

I hope our government gets more involve with electric vehicles and get an energy policy like yesterday.

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DonC Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:11 am

#24 RB says “The reasons are no doubt correct to some degree, but they seem to me more like rationalizations for an expensive proprietary plug that can come only from Chevrolet dealers.”

You’re going down a wrong path because you’re thinking this is a GM plug similar to the Project Better Place plug. It is most certainly NOT a proprietary plug. It’s an industry standard plug that all car manufacturers will use and any parts manufacturer can make and sell. So your Toyota or Honda or Ford will also use the same plug. My guess is that a 120V charging line for the home will come with your car, and in any event you’ll be able to buy replacements or additional ones from any number of third parties.

This is really no different than what we have now. You have to have a standard. We have one now which is why any small appliance you buy can be simply plugged into the standard 120V two prong electrical wall socket in your home.

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BillR1 Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:14 am

In New Hampshire, electric vehicles are assessed a road use tax at registration. I’m not sure of the fee, but before diesel fuel was taxed at the pump, it came to about $90 per year for my 1/2 ton diesel pickup.

Many communities will encourage public charging, because EV’s reduce air pollution. In more congested cities where traffic sits and idles for long periods, the pollution levels are higher (per EPA monitoring equipment). I believe in parts of southern California you can see the brown haze in the morning and evening after rush hour from the NOx emissions from the day’s traffic.

So, just as some locales have the HOV lane for commuters and low-emissions vehicles, charging stations will be added to encourage drivers to use electric vehicles. I suspect that the cities may actually work a deal with the local utility and might make some money from the charging stations/parking as well.

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DonC Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:16 am

#29 charlie h says “Anyway, I want to change my initial response to, ‘Just build the blasted cars, already, and once you’ve done that, we’ll figure out how to get the electricity to them.’ ”

So build the computer and then after we buy it we’ll tear it apart and try and figure out how to plug it in? That doesn’t seem like a reasoned approach.

The plug is not going to delay the Volt. The standard has been agreed to, only the details remain, and the Volt is over a year away.

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BillR1 Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:26 am

I don’t know how many of you read the GM press release, but they indicated that they have over 30 prototypes powered by Li-Ion batteries testing at the Milford proving grounds. Of course, this is in addition to the 24/7 battery testing that is being done in the lab.

Seems like a serious commitment to me. If GM does try to supply corporate fleets, they could definately have a potential market for more than 10,000 vehicles in the first year, even in the limited areas where they plan to introduce the car (i.e., Disney or FPL in Florida, government or military use in DC, and countless green-leaning companies in CA).

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statik Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:27 am

I blame Bob Lutz.

/wait, what was the topic about again?

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Joe Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:28 am

#13 Joe – that’s what i was thinking. If you were a business owner, you’d be smart to put a charging station or 2 in your lot. It will cost you a few pennies of electricity, but i’m sure you’ll make that up in product sales. Now how do you keep non-plug in cars from parking in those spots? If you put up signs.. will anyone enforce it?

********************************************************************************

I’m not advocating that the electricity should be free. the system could easily use a charge card ….like it is used at a gas station. This would not require much equiptment and would be small in comparison to a gas pump. The state government could regulate the electric rate so no one could gouge the price of electricity.

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harrier1970 Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:35 am

You have all missed the point…this is not so much about the Volt, it is what will follow. An all electric fleet of vehicles is the next logical step and until batteries can be brought up to match or exceed their ICE ancestors then there will be a great need to find places to recharge over a few hours (i.e. a modern replacement to the gas station).

Why should the government get involved? The switch to an electric system is a monumental task, above what any individual company could do on its own. The government needs to establish this for standardization, regulation and expediency.

Exxon/Mobil didn’t put us on the moon, the American people did. This is our next great task.

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GM Volt Fan Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:42 am

Maan … there’s going to be a LOT of incentives for people to buy the Volt and other E-REVs in the future. Federal tax credits, HOV lane access, no sales taxes for purchasing a Volt, no vehicle registration and license fees, free parking in some areas, free or low cost charging, incentives for cities to install charging stations, no emissions testing or fees, etc, etc. All these little things add up to a good chunk of money you know.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/02/gm-working-with.html#more

I’m hoping that the car insurance companies will get on the bandwagon and offer very competitive rates for Volt buyers. The more the government and private companies can help lower the “total cost of ownership (TCO)” the better. TCO could be a VERY good way to get people into showrooms. These incentives will accelerate the transition from IC engine transporation to more electrified transportation. The more battery factories that get built, the cheaper the batteries will get … the same thing you see with the prices of HDTVs going down this year.

Folks there’s going to be a lot of COMPELLING REASONS TO BUY a Volt when they come out. Financial reasons, convenience reasons … you name it. When you buy a Volt you’ll feel a bit like a celebrity VIP that gets to go to the front of the line and get a table ahead of everyone else. People still driving their gas guzzlers will start feeling more and more discriminated against. That’s EXACTLY what you want. New Volt owners get the “red carpet treatment” while “behind the times people” driving their old gas guzzlers will be jealous. Don’t underestimate jealousy. People will be “green with envy” and want to “go green” and get themselves a Volt too.

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k-dawg Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:53 am

#36 Joe Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:28 am
#13 Joe – that’s what i was thinking. If you were a business owner, you’d be smart to put a charging station or 2 in your lot. It will cost you a few pennies of electricity, but i’m sure you’ll make that up in product sales. Now how do you keep non-plug in cars from parking in those spots? If you put up signs.. will anyone enforce it?

********************************************************************************

I’m not advocating that the electricity should be free. the system could easily use a charge card ….like it is used at a gas station. This would not require much equiptment and would be small in comparison to a gas pump. The state government could regulate the electric rate so no one could gouge the price of electricity.

———–

Yeah, I mentioned that in my post as well (this entire topic has been discusssed serval times on this site). My point that you quoted was more about people taking parking spots. For example if it was a handicapped spot, right now, that’s an expensive parking ticket, but will laws be passed about parking in plug-in car spots?

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Jason M. Hendler Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:03 pm

Lyle,

Nice move creating a community activist site, so that a grassroots push for upgrading our power grid to service EV’s can have a base of operations.

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Zel Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:35 pm

I drove my Corbin Sparrow to and from work for years…until I moved and the commute was too far….they have a parking space reserved (one now, they said they would reserve more if needed) for EV’s with a 110v outlet…..for free. And this is in Jacksonville Florida.

Go figure…maybe some of us are READY?!?!?!?!?!

NPNS baby!

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statik Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:44 pm

Today is also the automakers monthly reports on the Carpocalypse:

Ford is first out of the gate:
-40% year over year for January
93,060 light vehicles compared with 155,832 in January 2008.

Of interest: This could be the first month to put the yearly forecast for NA autosales down under 10 million units…in like 25 years.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Ford-sales-drop-40-percent-in-apf-14237760.html

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Mike L Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:54 pm

Ultimately I think this is all about battery prices. The notion that these cars will sell well and as a result communities and business will adapt to them is a long-term proposition. GM is looking for community fleet investments, purchase incentives, and infrastructure development to create up-front demand … because there needs to be a strong market for batteries for them to get better and cheaper more quickly. And without cheaper batteries, there’s no profit; and without profit, well, we’re seeing that now.

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Dave G Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:17 pm

“GM Announces Initiative to Get Communities “Plug-in Ready” for the Volt”

This is bad news. The implication is that communities are not ready, and therefore most people should wait before buying a Volt or other plug-in. This is absolutely the wrong message for GM to be sending.

Please don’t bring this up with members of your community, as this will give them the impression that the Volt is not viable without major changes in community infrastructure. There is enough dis-information about the Volt already without us adding to it.

“Our existing electric utility system could handle tens of millions of plug-in hybrid vehicles if they would be recharged during off-peak times, such as at night.”
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/programs/ht/tm/3507.html?site=22&pl=qt&rate=hi&ch=5

Tens of millions. I’m sure there are that many driveways and garages right now that can charge the Volt. There is no problem. The Volt is viable now. If there is a problem down the road, we won’t see it until around 2020.

I realize that not all people live in suburban houses, so these people will not have the ability to charge plug-ins initially. But once the Volt and other plug-ins gain mass appeal, then the market will take care of condo/apartment dwellers, without any necessary involvement from GM.

Just let it happen. If you try to mess with it, it will send the wrong message and actually slow things down.

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statik Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:18 pm

Toyota has put their number out for January:

-34.4%
117,287 sales, off from 171,849 in 2008

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN0352676020090203?rpc=44

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Rashiid Amul Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:24 pm

#37 harrier1970 says,

You have all missed the point…this is not so much about the Volt, it is what will follow. An all electric fleet of vehicles is the next logical step and until batteries can be brought up to match or exceed their ICE ancestors then there will be a great need to find places to recharge over a few hours (i.e. a modern replacement to the gas station).

—————
Yes. This is exactly how I see it also. There are going to be some many EVs of varying degrees in the near future (10 I would guess).
Getting this started now if a good step. Not just for the Volt, but perhaps the NEVs, the new Plugin Prius, etc. I don’t see any harm in doing this at all.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:31 pm

#15 solo2500nt says,
The best part of an electric car is screwing the government out of money they will squander on third world abortions, condom’s in grade school bathrooms,

==========
This is not a political thread, but you started it.
Would you rather the third world have more children so those children can starve to death? Would you rather have middle schoolers giving birth to babies when the middle schoolers are babies themselves?
I have so much more to say, but I will end it here. This isn’t the place.

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Cautious Fan Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:37 pm

I think DonC made an important point. The plug design is an open standard, not proprietary. Plugs can legally be made in Michigan or in China. This will keep costs down and encourage mass adoption.

GM has an incentive to make this an open standard. They sell cars and make (in theory) $1,000’s per car. Making this a proprietary standard and licensing it to other companies will only encourage other designs and market fragmentation which….in the end….hurts the Volt as well. There’s not a lot of money in plug licenses considering how easy it is to design a new one.

GM is taking the IBM approach in the early PC days and making it open (IBM Compatible) to encourage mass adoption. And unlike IBM, they’re holding onto some of the core technologies like cell integration. Smart move GM.

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Cautious Fan Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:44 pm

Despite the theories otherwise, I suspect GM wants to see cars move to higher mileage cars and use less oil. Oil supplies aren’t going to increase sufficiently to supply all the automotive growth GM wants in the future. They don’t want their business to be constrained by oil supply. While in the past it was assumed that oil production would continue to grow, I think last year proved the point and led to the strategy shift we’re seeing today, in conjuction with consumer demand. The automotive industry will work together on plug standards. They don’t need an outside force to make it happen. If they don’t and electric vehicle rollout is hobbled, this harms the entire industry. And in an industry dominated by a few large players, this type of understanding can easily occur.

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noel park Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:55 pm

#47 Rashiid Amul:

Good man! Amen!

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Tony Gray Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:02 pm

This is one more item where it appears the Volt will go to those annointed people who live in California (especially SF) and DC and maybe NYC. (No offense to those who live there, but those who don’t always seem to get the shaft.)

Give me the darn car…I don’t need a subsidy, I don’t need you to fund a special port at work or a particular parking place. Heck, I drive right by Three Mile Island every day to and from work so I might not need a plug at all!

THESE kinds of releases only serve to dampen the enthusiasm of those who live and work outside the meccas of green thought.

And I agree that if governments start charging you vehicle taxes by the mile instead of by the gallon…the EV movement will be crushed.

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noel park Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:07 pm

At first blush, I agreed with many of you that this seems a bit like putting the cart before the horse. I mean, with 10K Volts scheduled for 2011, and maybe 50K for 2012, there is not going to be a crushing demand for all of this charging infrastructure next week.

On the other hand, many other companies are making noises about having some sort of EVs avaiable in the 2011-12 time frame. So maybe this should be an industry wide effort. It would seem that Nissan, Mitsu and maybe Ford with the Focus are talking about actual BEVs. Toyota is dabbling in the plug in camp. Then there’s Chrysler (LOL?). BYD lurks. And who knows who else. So maybe that’s something positive they can all work on together, as opposed to jointly suing California for trying to control CO2 emissions and raise mileage.

If GM is working in the San Francisco region, that brings to mind Project Better Place. I believe that they have already signed an agreement with San Francisco, and maybe some other regional cities, to implement same. Could GM be piggybacking off of that? If so, so much the better, IMHO.

Even so, I would beg GM not to allow this to take one gram of management attention off the most immediate and critical goal:

LJGT!@#$%^VWOTR!!! NPNS! DBNGCMEMEV (thanks again Casey)

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Britney Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:07 pm

I see a need for “Special EV Surcharge” levied on all EV owner’s utility bill. We cannot have EV owner’s using a disproportionate share of the public’s energy capacity. I would also be in favor of a mileage tax on the Volt to make up for the reduced need for common fuel (i.e. gasoline, etc). I am all for getting off of oil but we must ensure that the earlier adopter’s carry a larger share of the load. BTW, this should be a Federal Tax that will automatically be deducted from the owner’s paycheck, just like FICA (aka Social Security), it could possibly be called the Green Garnishment.

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Murray Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:08 pm

#35 Statik — blindly blaming Bob Lutz… that is bringing the funny

#21 Starcast — quoting anything Jay Leno says… not so much

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Adrian Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:09 pm

More public debt. Right. Just what we need.

That .50cent tax will appear somewhere else. The man will come get his money, he always does.

I have large issues with government paying for plug in stations. I would wait until the cars start selling before doing anything. Maybe a tax break for businesses to run extension cords to parking lots. I do not want the government handing out checks anymore. Look how well that has gone in the last 3 months.

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Adrian Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:12 pm

Power infrastruture issues run from California to at least Chicago. That is what happens when you let the EPA run power management and power plants don’t get built.

How about regulations get lifted too?

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statik Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:15 pm

Last but not least, our faithful GM:

Off a adjusted 50.9%, et le ouche

128,198 sales, compared to 250,926 in 2008

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN0330363620090203?rpc=44

/thats pretty good right? Viability plan just got a little tougher

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Local Yahoo Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:16 pm

Since local government is being asked to pay for EV infrastructure it is only fair that the local community benefit from the Volt. No better way to say “thank you” to the community than for GM to pay a percentage of each Volt sold and return it to the local governments in the form of a rather handsome check.

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carcus1 Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:17 pm

(Nod to #44 Dave G.)

Actually, if you read the linked GM press announcement, it makes zero common sense. The first 3 bullets state we need “plug in communities” and new utility infrastructure in order for the volt to succeed.

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewpressreldetail.do?domain=2&docid=51807

Isn’t the whole idea of the volt that you charge it at home overnight (no extra grid capacity needed then), and then IF you need to go more than 40 miles the range extender kicks in? (i.e. no charging stations needed).

The press release MIGHT be applicable IF we were talking about scads of BEV’s in the next couple of years. But GM’s press release is Volt (i.e. E-REV) specific. GM hasn’t even hinted that they’re going to build a BEV.

What a crock.

Disingenuous, once again.

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DonC Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:20 pm

#52 noel park says “If GM is working in the San Francisco region, that brings to mind Project Better Place. I believe that they have already signed an agreement with San Francisco, and maybe some other regional cities, to implement same. Could GM be piggybacking off of that? If so, so much the better, IMHO.”

Noel, this is not at all the case. In fact it’s the exact opposite. PBP has a business model which requires that charging be proprietary. They charge less for the car and make it up by charging more for the electricity. In a real sense it’s a “give away the razor and charge a lot for the blades” model, and it’s plug must therefore be proprietary. Absolutely proprietary. And they will have to defend that design by every available legal means in order to prevent anyone from using an alternative charging system with their vehicles.

The J1772 standard is completely open. It’s designed so that any company can use it. At the end of the day the two are absolute competitors on every level because the models behind them are wholly separate and competitive.

In the computer area, it’s the difference between Compact Flash and Secure Digital, which are open, and Memory Stick, which is a proprietary Sony standard.

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k-dawg Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:27 pm

According to these numbers
http://online.wsj.com/mdc/public/page/2_3022-autosales.html

The top 2 US vehicle sales in 2008 were both pickups.. Ford F-series and Chevy Silverado.. at about 1/2 million each.

It sounds like from the talk on this site and the #’s from 2008, automakers need to focus on electric pickup trucks more.

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Sue Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:30 pm

still waiting on the first Volt to be sold to the general public, the only GM announcement I need to see is: “Chevy Volt now available at your local dealership, test drive one today!”

I wonder how much money is being wasted on the media hype that could be directed towards R & D.

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N Riley Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:40 pm

We have to remember that GM has to plan for years into the future. Sometimes they don’t plan all that good, I have to agree. Just think about their vehicle line-up today as opposed to what it should be like and you can see what I mean. But, even with that, they have to be planning for the eventual electrification of the automobile and this is just part of the process. Now is the time to start the initiative because we all know how long it takes government agencies to do something beneficial to taxpayers. Now if it was coming up with new taxes or ways to tax or helping political cronies, they would be like “Jumping Jack Flash”. So, GM is doing the right thing at the right time. Plus, you must remember, this helps keep GM in the “drivers seat” with electrification of the automobile. They will be in on all the decisions and will get to help it along on their terms whenever they can. Smart, GM, just plain smart. Go to it.

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carcus1 Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:52 pm

GM’s plan:

Delay,
Delay,
Delay,

Wait for gas prices to stabilize below $2.00/ gallon and we can all go back to business as usual.

Smart, GM.

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N Riley Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:53 pm

#21 Starcast

“Jay Leno: “There was a huge scientific breakthrough today. Researchers say they are very close to finding someone from Obama’s Cabinet who’s actually paid their taxes.”
————————-

Not to “beat up” on Obama but this goes along with what I heard the other day. To quote: “This just proves that Democrats believe in raising your taxes but don’t believe in paying taxes themselves.”

It was just funny and apparently has some ring of truth to it based on recent events. Sorry, if this offends anyone. Wonder what would have happened if Georg W. had nominated any of these people or others like them? Paint would be peeling off the walls of congress the heat would be so bad. The democratic TV networks (NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, MSNBC, PBS, etc) would be on full time berating George W., the nominees and all conservatives in general. It would be a three ring circus filled with the usual clowns.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:00 pm

#23 DonC

“You need a special plug for all kinds of reasons. First there are the safety reasons, including insuring the car won’t start if it’s plugged in and not frying yourself in wet weather.”
——————–

Wouldn’t the controlling mechanism for the smart plug, as it may be called, be inside the car’s charger? All it has to know is that it is receiving current or that a plug is currently plugged in. Doesn’t take much “brains” for either of those functions. I guess I am still remembering when GM said that you would be able to just use a grounded three-pronged cord to charge the car. And, regardless of the current status of a special, smart plug, I still don’t understand why a simple cord purchased from WalMart would not be fine. I just find myself questioning the need of special $250.00 cords (if it doesn’t cost even more).

Edited: After looking at the link you provided, I can see why a simple plug would not be feasible. Their plans apparently will incorporate wiring for two-way communication with the power grid. I can understand that, but damn, that is one ugly plug design! Let’s hope GM’s design is the one that gets accepted. The one show above is at least good looking. Still, if an owner doesn’t want to “communicate” with the power grid and all they want to do is charge the car, a simpler cord would be all that would be called for. IMO.

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Starcast Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:09 pm

“Jay Leno: “There was a huge scientific breakthrough today. Researchers say they are very close to finding someone from Obama’s Cabinet who’s actually paid their taxes.”

For those offended it was a JOKE! Just like Obama’s Cabinet.

On real topic

I still just don’t understand why GM is talking about this for the Volt. 70% of us can just charge it once a day. Is this not the whole point?

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Bryan Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:14 pm

This is stupid. Governments and partners will figure out a way to increase the cost of or tax the electricity we use to charge our vehicles complicating all our lives. States like California have existing electric rate incentives based on time of day and they work.

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Cautious Fan Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:19 pm

In case anyone didn’t see the new yet…GM is offering a buyout to ALL their hourly employees. Sounds like they’re in a hurry to get to the lower tier hourly rates in the union contracts.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2009-02-02-gm-chrysler-buyouts_N.htm

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KentT Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:19 pm

Out of all the comments I don’t see any discussion regarding the plug. From the photo the Volt plug is some sort of sci-fi, five conductor, cloverleaf shaped thing-a-ma-bobber! Totally proprietary!

When will the government step in and mandate some sort of standard?

(Quote)
GM Volt Fan Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:31 pm

There’s a HUGE number of benefits to EVERYONE in America even if they cannot buy a Volt right away in 2011. The main ones are getting STARTED on the road to ENERGY INDEPENDENCE.

If you haven’t noticed the past 8 years, we do NOT want to be under the thumb of petrodictator countries like with Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, Putin in Russia or the fatcat oil shieks in the Middle East who were making GIGANTIC, obscene profits at the expense of American drivers.

Americans spend BILLIONS every year in taxes for our military just to keep the oil flowing from the Middle East. YOUR money that you pay in income taxes. The more we go to electricity as our automobile “fuel”, the less we have to cowtow to these countries. Did you see GW Bush basically begging the fatcat oil shieks in Saudi Arabia to lower the price of oil last year? That was embarrassing for our President to have to do that.

It would be MUCH better to “grow our own energy”. Right here in America. There’s all sorts of ways to make electricity. In a few years, I want to charge up my Volt at night at home VERY cheaply and then fill up my Volt’s fuel tank with inexpensive, American made “biogasoline” that comes from algae … every month or so (or if I need to go on a long trip). That’s what you call energy independence. ALL the fuel is made right here in America. American jobs. People paying taxes into OUR government … which in turn helps OUR economy with better infrastructure, etc. It sure beats sending $700+ billion overseas to the fatcat oil shieks every year like oilman T. Boone Pickens says.

Bottom line …. if you look at the BIG picture, it makes a LOT of sense for the government to have all kinds of incentives to get people out of their gas guzzlers and into the new, 21st century electric vehicles. Lots of benefits to society as a whole AND benefits to each individual. That’s why government should be involved in the electricification of the automobile. Energy issues are way too important to be left to the private sector alone. Nuclear wars might break out in the next 20 years if we don’t get viable alternatives to friggin oil in place. We have to start NOW. Not when there’s a big panic about oil prices again.

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N Riley Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:31 pm

#35 Statik

“I blame Bob Lutz.

/wait, what was the topic about again?”
—————-

Thanks, I needed that. A little humor goes a long way……

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Starcast Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:37 pm

Ya like the Government building the Interstate hwy system that doomed the Railroads. That was a great Idea.

We could have much better transportation today if the Government would have stayed out of it.

I don’t want the Government picking our next energy. let the market pick the best one. (I think we need to use many different ones not just electric)

(Quote)
RB Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:42 pm

Don C notes
The J1772 standard is completely open. It’s designed so that any company can use it. At the end of the day the two are absolute competitors on every level because the models behind them are wholly separate and competitive.
—————————————————————–

You make a very good point here.
==>
So, now we have to see such cords available from auto parts stores, or the auto section of Walmart, not just dealers. So long as the cords are only available from dealers, they are going to be expensive. (Maybe they are better cords, too, and maybe replicas of original equipment, but they will be expensive.)

(Quote)
RB Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:44 pm

#35 statik says “I blame Bob Lutz.”
————————–
It’s good Mr. Lutz is taking some of the heat off George Bush.

(Quote)
Estero Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:47 pm

There is nothing at all wrong with this. It is not about the Volt. Rather, it is about the electrification of cars and getting rid of our dependence on oil; foreign or otherwise.

Some look at the Volt as a commuter vehicle. And for many that is what it will be, at least initially. All they need to do is pull into their garage each evening and recharge the battery for the next day.

Other people, including me, hope the Volt-type cars will one day become a family car that can be taken on vacations, etc. We need recharging stations across the country if this ‘hope’ is ever to become a reality.

I support GM’s efforts!

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TALLPALL Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:49 pm

#35 Static

LOL! Treating us to some funnies today hey!

#38 GM Volt Fan. Best assessment of the day! Spot on as i see it.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:50 pm

Here’s my 1.5cents…

All new plugs/charging stations to charge an EV should be Solar with the “Grid” as a backup AND if not charging an EV, feed the Solar Energy into the Grid.
I understand that folks that live in apartment complexes don’t have a way BUT, Most have covered parking that have lights and with the lights comes a hot wire to be tapped.
Now for those poor souls that live in a downtown “Loft” or condo, then yes, you will need some infrastructure to support you and that’s where the Solar charging can come in handy.

If you’re going to put in a charging infrastructure, do it right. Spend part of the $$$ on a Hybrid Solar infrastructure.

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GM Volt Fan Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:50 pm

73. Starcast

I don’t have a problem with mass transportation like the high speed trains they have in Japan and Europe. There should be more of them in America. For lots of reasons. Less traffic on the roads (and the stress that goes with it), less pollution, fewer traffic accidents, etc.

Big cities should definitely look into more well thought out mass transportation. Things like where the trains have stations and fear of crime and crap like that is what tends to slow down mass transit trains from what I’ve seen. Gotta have paid security guards on every train or something.

(Quote)
Starcast Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:51 pm

“Other people, including me, hope the Volt-type cars will one day become a family car that can be taken on vacations, etc. Those people need recharging stations across the country if this ‘hope’ is ever to become a reality.”

? This will be a reality right out of the box. No need for a recharging station. On a trip you will just need to use a little gas.

(Quote)
statik Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:53 pm

#54 Murray
#72 N Riley said:

Thanks, I needed that. A little humor goes a long way……
===========================
#77 TALLPALL said:

#35 Static
LOL! Treating us to some funnies today hey!
===========================
You know me…I’m a people pleaser.

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Arch Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:54 pm

http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSTRE5125QM20090203

Take Care
Arch

(Quote)
Estero Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:55 pm

#71 GM Volt Fan
___

Well said! Thanks!

(Quote)
MarkinWI Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:58 pm

http://www.jsonline.com/business/38842077.html

Ford Hybrid batteries will be built in U.S.A. (eventually). This is how we start an economic recovery. We gotta build stuff. You know, stuff?

(Quote)
Estero Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:58 pm

#81 Starcast
___

I understand your point but I’d rather use as little gas as possible, zero if possible. Battery recharging stations are a must!

(Quote)
Michael Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:59 pm

BillR1 @34

Speaking of Military use, check out the article reported on FOXnews.com
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,487348,00.html

Originally from ARMY Times
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/11/army_electric_cars_112408w/

They are not VOLTS, but they are electric.

(Quote)
statik Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:01 pm

Just other random things:

Subaru was the only manufacturer up in 2008, and it posted a 8% increase in January…strange. (Hyundai also put up a +13%)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Most-carmakers-sales-plunge-apf-14240957.html

…only Chrysler left to report

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:02 pm

#46 Rashiid Amul

Maybe GM is doing this knowing that EEStor is going to give them the capability to mass produce cheap electric vehicles that will have good range, but will need access to “public” charging stations to relieve range anxiety. Maybe…..

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carcus1 Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:07 pm

While GM is planning “readiness initiatives” that will allow them to sell the $40,000 limited production volt, …

Ford’s planning on selling:

1. All electric van
2. All electric Focus
3. Plug in Escape
4. Plug in Fusion
5. Strong hybrid Fusion
( Not to mention 1/2 million plus vehicles with ecoboost )

Should be very interesting to see where Ford ends up with pricing and production numbers on items 1 through 4.

(Quote)
Starcast Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm

GM Volt Fan Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:50 pm
73. Starcast

I don’t have a problem with mass transportation like the high speed trains they have in Japan and Europe. There should be more of them in America. For lots of reasons. Less traffic on the roads (and the stress that goes with it), less pollution, fewer traffic accidents, etc.

Big cities should definitely look into more well thought out mass transportation. Things like where the trains have stations and fear of crime and crap like that is what tends to slow down mass transit trains from what I’ve seen. Gotta have paid security guards on every train or something.

I agree but my point was more on how much less oil we would shipping by rail if the Government had not chose to screw things up by building the Interstate.

(Quote)
James Jonhson Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:12 pm

Hyundai and Subaru both show you can profit even in this economy if you make affordable vehicles that people want to buy. Take note GM.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Most-carmakers-sales-plunge-apf-14240883.html

(Quote)
Starcast Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:14 pm

Estero Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 3:58 pm
#81 Starcast
___

I understand your point but I’d rather use as little gas as possible, zero if possible. Battery recharging stations are a must!

I understand what your saying, I just find it hard to belive you will be stoping every 40 miles to recharge on a trip. So I see little use for the chargeing stations. But some Restaurants on their own might put them in and that would be a good thing. All us Volties would stop there.

I think a long trip will never be all electric. This is why Electric is not and should not be the only way to go.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:15 pm

#58 Local Yahoo

“Since local government is being asked to pay for EV infrastructure it is only fair that the local community benefit from the Volt. No better way to say “thank you” to the community than for GM to pay a percentage of each Volt sold and return it to the local governments in the form of a rather handsome check.”
———————————

I did not understand it to say that local government was going to pay for anything. Usually local government has to approve of infrastructure changes then the utility company actually pays the bills. Of course, in the meantime they have upped their electrical rates and the users are actually footing the bill.

(Quote)
MarkinWI Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:17 pm

Re Carcus1 at #89 – see my link at #84. There’s a lot in the link about future product plans, including – gasp -, a plug in that goes 40 miles on one charge. I’m glad to see all of this R&D (and hopefully manufacturing) beind done in Glendale, but I don’t see it as an occasion to slam GM.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:25 pm

Here’s some good news….

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2009/02/03/sierra-nevada-beer-production-waste-used-to-make-ethanol/

YeeeeHawww…
Drink up!

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N Riley Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:31 pm

Starcast and GM Volt Fan,

It would be great if 90% of the 18-wheeler traffic could be diverted back to the railroads. Shoot, I wish that 100% of it could. Trucks should be local only, in my opinion. If railroad infrastructure was engineered properly and financed properly, railroads could compete with trucks. But, how are we going to get it done. One way is for fuel to continue to rise and put most trucking firms out of business. Not a great way to see the change take place, but one way, I guess. Massive involvement by government with massive transfers of money and talent would be another way. Would result with trucking firms going out of business also.

My opinion is that cross-country, and to some extent, cross-state trucking firms may be something we will not see in their present forms in a few years. If I was running a trucking company, I would be trying my best to develop as much local trucking with smaller trucks as I could and getting my self in a position to compete locally.

(Quote)
RB Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:31 pm

I’ve read all the posts above and their many excellent points.

Marketing still seems to me to be the reason for Mr Peper’s statements, not electricity grids.

By focusing attention on the grid, Mr Peper may inadvertently fall into the trap mentioned by Dave G at #44 —> by implication,don’t buy Volts until your town has upgraded. That’s not sensible, but I live in a community that can bent out of shape over just this kind of imaginary issue.

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carcus1 Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:32 pm

Would Wagoner/Lutz/Clarke say this?

The Ford boss wasn’t shy about where automotive technology is heading. “I think that the future is going to move beyond petroleum.” Mulally said. “And I think that further electrification of the vehicle is that future.”

The green technology push at the event was overt. Half of our time in Dearborn was dedicated to briefings and driving exercises with the new hybrid technology in the 2010 Mercury Milan, which we’ll review in coming days.

Although the program was centered on car technology that is being released today, Mulally spoke in the interview about a much bigger picture in regard to greening American energy policy. “My vision is an electrical system which generates clean electricity, and then we use electricity that is clean – a closed system.” Mulally said. “I’m most excited that we as a country, and countries around the world will adopt energy policies that will help create this future.”

The message control of the group was impressive, with all Ford reps from several different levels of management giving identical talking points: We love green technology.

Ford CEO: The Future is Electric
http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1018069_ford-ceo-the-future-is-electric

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Starcast Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:37 pm

N Riley Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Starcast and GM Volt Fan,

“It would be great if 90% of the 18-wheeler traffic could be diverted back to the railroads. Shoot, I wish that 100% of it could. Trucks should be local only, in my opinion. If railroad infrastructure was engineered properly and financed properly, railroads could compete with trucks. But, how are we going to get it done. One way is for fuel to continue to rise and put most trucking firms out of business. Not a great way to see the change take place, but one way, I guess. Massive involvement by government with massive transfers of money and talent would be another way. Would result with trucking firms going out of business also.”

*
*
My point was not what should be done. BUT an example of how Government can screw things up. If the government had not built the Interstate we would not be talking about this now. The government picked trucking over rail.
We do not want the government picking our next fuel. thats all.

(Quote)
RB Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:44 pm

The sales numbers posted by statik above for Toyota (off 34%) and GM (off 50% overall and 58% in car sales) are horrible. Toyota might be seen as following the trend of a bad economy, but GM seems even worse than that — one wonders if customers (or dealers) are actively avoiding GM, and there is no sign the downward trend is transient. GM is spiraling down so fast now I really fear for them.

Whither Volt?

(Quote)
carcus1 Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:50 pm

#94 MarkinWI,

Your link is not giving me occasion to criticize GM. GM’s press release is the occasion. GM’s management is the occasion.

Read the full release, and see my post at #59,#64.

Ford’s got some meat in their fuel efficient/electrification plan. GM just wants theirs to smell meaty.

I’ve been thinking of new names for the “Volt”. How about “Specter”? It seems more fitting.

It continues to amaze me how GM’s Board of Directors has hung onto the current management team.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:51 pm

The Interstate Highway System was established during the ’50s as a means of quickly transporting troops and equipment to any point in the U.S. in case of a land invasion by a foreign power. That was its primary objective. It has morphed many times over the years and was adopted by the trucking industry as an easy route to “going” national with their trucking operations. Congress did not help matters by overly spending money on the Interstate Highway System rather than helping the railroads. But, you have to remember that the railroad companies were well established and no one thought the new interstate system was going to be a detriment to them. As it happened, and since they were privately owned companies, the railroad companies could not compete with the trucking companies being able to pick-up and deliver door-to-door, so to speak. Everything just worked against the railroads, including their structure and their lack of initiative. Maybe things will turn around for them in the future. I really hope so. Railroads are and should be a very important part of our national treasure.

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noel park Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:54 pm

#60 Don C:

If PBP is going to develop its own charging infrastructure, and everyone else is going to develop another one, somebody is going to go the way of the Betamax, IMHO. I think that I can guess who it will be.

#84 MarkinWI:

Stuff. I get it. What a concept!

#84 MarkinWI, Carcus #89 & #98:

If Mulally can get Ford to survive, and then do all of that, maybe he will actually be worth what they are paying him.

#87 statik:

Chrysler? OMG!

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N Riley Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:57 pm

Speaking of railroads, I was sitting next to the little train depot (really just a covered floor area) in Yazoo City, Mississippi Saturday with my two grandsons when an Amtrak train pulled in to let passengers off. My two grandsons really enjoyed that experience. I did too, but I kept looking at the train from the engine back to the passenger cars (there were only about eight cars) and could not help but think about how dirty and unclean they appeared. It just made me wonder how often those engines and passenger cars get washed because these looked pretty bad. I know it must cost a pretty penny to get them washed, but it seems like that should be an automated process for the railroads by now. Kind of like driving your car through a car wash, just much bigger. Just me thinking.

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Starcast Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:58 pm

Railroads built there rails the government built the interstate most far after the 1950

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statik Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:10 pm

Alright, not that anyone cares about Chrysler, but here it is:

-55%…so GM didn’t finish last, huzzah!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Chrysler-sales-plunge-55-pct-apf-14242286.html

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k-dawg Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:12 pm

#87 statik Says:

(Hyundai also put up a +13%)
—————–

Guess that’s how they could afford x-million for the Superbowl.

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statik Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:21 pm

The thread is getting long in the tooth, so I figure I’ll bust down some of the ‘highlights’ of GM’s January:
—————————————-
—————————————-
Overall: -50.8 (129,227 vs 252,565 – 25/26 selling days)

Best Brand: GMC -40.7
Worst Brand: Pontiac -60.5

Best Selling Car: Vibe +3.3%
2nd Best Selling Car (and actually made by GM): Malibu -38.4
Worst Selling Car: G6 -83.0 (2,468 unites compared to 13,942)

Best Selling Truck: Enclave -23.1
Worst Selling Truck: Uplander -93.7

Amount of hybrids sold from ‘wide range of hybrid product offerings available’: 923

All the numbers in a fancy spreadsheet from GM:
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=6&docid=51817

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CorvetteGuy Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:41 pm

#28 Guy Incognito

The best way to get communities plug in ready for the Volt is to advertise.
Advertise in all media….internet, print, radio, television etc.
There is one problem with advertising, sometimes it causes you to sell out of product.

See the USA in your Chevrolet.

_______________________________________

Man, you are 500% correct!

I’ve been saying that for months now on this blog.
The next time Lyle sits down with one of these big shots, he needs to ask when the real ‘promotion’ of the VOLT will begin.

And they better come up with something better than their first round of ads. The first ones were kinda boring.

Our dealership just launched “allnewchevyvolt.com” and we are promoting it on the lit billboard at our auto center. We have one of the highest concentrations of commuters passing by here and we plan to be #1 in VOLT sales.

In addition, I still think Lyle should have a “Slogan Contest” for the VOLT.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:55 pm

I remember when the horseless carriage was imminent. People held salons at saloons and argued about the need to standardize roads and traffic laws. Some said, “keep the government out of it; things will take care of themselves through competition.” That was stupid.

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statik Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 6:00 pm

#110 ThombDbhomb said:

I remember when the horseless carriage was imminent. People held salons at saloons and argued about the need to standardize roads and traffic laws. Some said, “keep the government out of it; things will take care of themselves through competition.” That was stupid.
——————————–
I believe that was Tagamet that said that.
(You out there my friend?)

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chevonly Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 6:10 pm

Proving my point again it is so easy to spot a REPUBLICAN CRY BABY, WAH WAH THEY ARE TRYING TO GET INTO MY WALLET AGAIN. Just one reason the US is DEAD. Come on get real, California had public charging stations all over the place in the 90s, if you want people to get away from Saudi black gold you have to make it easy for them to charge up period, and the backward states that cannot support electrification make them pay a carbon tax to go to infrastructure its time for the US to move out of the 1950s mentality, YA GOOD LUCK WITH THAT, we need another tax cut to increase the deficit to 100 trillion, this country has become a sad joke.

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JEC Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 6:20 pm

#84 MarkInWI

I guess Ford stole my idea of using JC for the battery supplier! I posted a few days ago that GM should use several local (WI) companies to get the Volt rolling. (To lazy to find it and repost), but it was basically:

Johnson Controls : battery

Rockwell Automation: Electronic drive controller
(Maybe a nice ControlLogix PLC and a PanelView in the cockpit: Actually Oshkosh truck already has a diesel electric truck that uses Rockwell drives, ControlLogix and PanelView products. It is very cool, as OTC brought the military vehicle on-site to demo. This truck could be used as a mini-substation to provide enough power for an small town)
ProPulse® Series Hybrid Powered:
Control System: Command Zone™ electronic controls
and diagnostics
Engine: 400 HP diesel, JP-8 compatible
Generator: 305 kW (100 kW MIL-spec exportable power)
Energy Storage: 1.5 MJ ultra-capacitors
Drive Motors: 480 VAC induction, 1 per axle

http://www.oshkoshdefense.com/pdf/Oshkosh_HEMTT_A305.pdf

Marthon Electric: ac induction motors

Generac: Generator

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DonC Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 6:45 pm

#66 N. Riley says “Their plans apparently will incorporate wiring for two-way communication with the power grid.”

The two way communication would not be limited to the grid. For example you might plug the car into a charger, for example one made by Coulomb, and the charger and the car would negotiate over what the juice would be based on factors like battery preservation. Something like: Charger: “I can do 200amps”; Volt: “I don’t want more than 50″; Charger: “OK I can do that”. I’d guess if there isn’t any communication the car would assume it has a 110 or 220 line.

The plug in the presentation did look nasty but it’s not final. I’d expect it to get spiffed up before it was released. I’m also thinking the line was very thick to accommodate a lot of power, let’s say 44kW. One for the home at about 1kW, which means the charging cable could be much like an ordinary extension cord. That would simplify the design as well and might well look like the plug pictured at the top of the page.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 6:48 pm

#111 statik
I didn’t mean to call any one person out. I was just funnin’ (kinda). Don’t sic Tag on me. I’m sensitive and I don’t want anyone to pick on me.

I guess my opinion is that strict adherence to an ideology is great for faith-based types, but practicality demands compromises. Some standardization seems necessary to avoid chaos. I buy into the democracy idea, so stakeholder groups, as proposed by GM, seems like an appropriate approach.

Don’t hate me because I’m beautifully pragmatic. I like the omnipartisan approach (I just made that up).

Edit: Oh! I just got it! You suggested that Tag was at the saloons, not that he and I should argue. I’m getting slower in my old age.

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Mark Z Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 6:59 pm

We are not the only ones interested in plugging in the VOLT:

http://www.pasadenaweekly.com/cms/story/detail/right_plug_wrong_socket/6454/

This subject is very critical since we will need a 220/240 outlet to charge the VOLT quickly. Today most homes have one of these types in the house:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/220sb.PNG

Those range and dryer plugs would not be good with the lack of protective recessed design. Too much of a chance of shock with a stray finger.

The following socket would not be allowed by GM under any circumstances:

http://www.beaudaniels.com/Automotive-pages/Honda-EV-plug-socket.htm

There are a lot of industrial designs used world wide as noted on this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_and_multiphase_power_plugs_and_sockets

What will help is for GM to standardize the industry for the 220/240 volt infrastructure. Future VOLT owners need to know what wire gauge and circuit breaker size we should be planning on in future construction projects. Box size and style would help too. Electricians should be able to design for the future with currently available hardware. The more information that GM can provide, the better.

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noel park Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 6:59 pm

#112 chevonly:

Too true, my friend. If we keep upon our present course of unimaginable debt, overwhelming balance of payments deficits, and insane military adventures, we will hit the wall, sooner rather than later.

When I drive around LA and observe the shoals of Japanese, Korean and German cars clogging our freeways and streets, I sometimes feel like we are the lemmings, madly jumping off the cliff.

Alas, our beloved country!

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:06 pm

Man, how many times do I have to post this…

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/12/23/sae-to-launch-program-to-create-standard-plug-for-evs/

Already working on the standard….

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Johann Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:08 pm

If the cost of gasoline was the true cost then we’d be on alternative energies much sooner. For example, instead of forcing the people to pay income tax up front to pay for the protection of oil, we should charge the oil companies the protection. The oil companies would then have to increase the cost gasoline to pay for the military protection. Our taxes would go down and the price of gasoline would go up and people would take alternative solutions more seriously.

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Zero X Owner Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:13 pm

Commercial electricity has been in the US since 1882. Problem solved, 127 years ago. As there are more and more EVs on the street, more external outlets will pop up at businesses and street sides, free and pay for, gradually and seamlessly. At the utility level, utilities will also gradually adjust to their new, better, smoother demand around the clock, but not without whines (the bigger the baby, the more it screams when you give it candy). It’s not the first time we’ve had market penetration of new technology, after all.

I already do V2G with my 100% wind powered EV – no big whoop, cost me all of $20 in infrastructure, though residential and commercial grid tied solar makes V2G slightly more formal and free.

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Buck Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:19 pm

Lyle how much do you need per year to take these stupid ads off this website, they devalue what you are trying to accomplish here?

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JEC Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:50 pm

121 Buck

Until Lyle starts asking for bailout money, he can post any advertisement he desires.

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RB Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:10 pm

#102 N. Riley said
Everything just worked against the railroads, including their structure and their lack of initiative. Maybe things will turn around for them in the future. I really hope so. Railroads are and should be a very important part of our national treasure.
——————————————————–

It is important to distinguish US passenger rail from US freight rail. US passenger rail is feeble, as noted, except in a few corridors with high local traffic. In contrast, US freight rail is strong, arguably the best in the world, highly automated, and heavily used. Freight rail takes business away from trucks for heavy freight, and there is a lot of that. Go to Roanoke VA and watch the Norfolk Southern trains rolling under the bridge from Hotel Roanoke into downtown, one after another every few minutes, to get an visceral impression of how big freight rail is. Freight rail could benefit from government action to remove a few bottlenecks, but on the whole it does not need our sympathy.

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Dave K. =D~ Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:19 pm

hi noel park #117,

“…I drive around LA and observe the shoals of Japanese, Korean and German cars clogging our freeways…”

_____________________________

Very true. My company has 1200 parking spaces divided between two garages. Assorted Asian cars take up about 700, German 200, American (Canada/Mexico) 200, classics (and other) 80 and electric 20.

I expect the number of parked electric vehicles to double each year. Once they catch on, it will be like a beanie baby frenzy. This is why it is so important to get rolling with the Volt.

BTW: I will attend this years Santa Monica alternative energy car show. I expect to test drive a Volt at that time. Not a Focus, a Volt.

=D~

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RB Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:23 pm

#124 Dave K says
I will attend this years Santa Monica alternative energy car show. I expect to test drive a Volt at that time. Not a Focus, a Volt.

Pray tell what gives you this expectation?

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Youda Farmer Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:40 pm

@Dave K.

What a dreamer.

Test drive a Volt this year. HA HA HA HEE HEE (I think I busted my gut on that one)

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Dave K. =D~ Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:42 pm

hi RB #125,

The event is held at the end of the year. Volt will be ready by then. Bob Lutz has said, “No one will get a Volt before 2010″. He didn’t say anything about test drives.

The 2008 show offered several small EV’s to test drive. And as one would expect, these continued on non-stop during the event.

In 2009, the Transformers II movie will be pumping public interest in the Volt. Santa Monica is a mecca of future E-REV buyers and also the home of the Alternative Energy Expo. If GM can’t deliver at test drive at this venue in 9 months they may as well dissolve.

=D~

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RichardG Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:42 pm

We had better get the US Government involved in power distribution before the auto fleet goes electric. Do you all know who is the single largest owner of power transmission lines in the U.S.? MORGAN STANLEY…

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RB Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:55 pm

#127 Dave K — regarding a test drive in 2009
——————-

hi Dave
Sounds good to me

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Dan Petit Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:58 pm

Above was mentioned something called a “Green Garnishment”
which the writer said should come out as a payroll tax so as to make up for other lost government revenue (as I understand that post) from motor fuel gas taxes “lost”.
Well, let us cancel that one out with an offset of a “carbon Tax credit”, and, while we are at it , let’s have a secondary “carbon Tax credit” (since we are preventing refining and oil transportation CO2 from being produced) which we can actually “sell” to those producers of CO2 whom may need a carbon tax credit in the future, so that the initial customers of the Volt will get some extra help affording it prior to an economy-of-scale reduction in distant-future lowered purchase cost.
A gallon of gas produces 20 pounds of CO2, times, let’s say, as much as 50 gallons a month potentially-saved, is potentially about a thousand pounds of CO2 saved a month.
Dan Petit Austin TX.

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GmsAJoke Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:20 pm

Their goes the dickheads at GM again. About another thousand meetings between the dickheads to pat themselves on the back and justify their jobs for what????? Not one single car on the road and they are worried about having enough electricity to charge them, charge what you a$$holes….deliver the car. Thats your fricking job and it is quite obvious you have forgotten that.

Oh, yeah I get it. You think you are so great that everyone is going to buy a new car all at once. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

IT WILL TAKE YEARS FOR YOUR CAR TO MAKE A DENT IN THE ELECTRIC GRID YOU DUMBFU(CKS. and that is if you can even make them fast enough to make a dent without the usual GM breakdowns. So mind your own business and make cars. Then maybe you wouldn’t need the taxpayer to keep bailing you out.

Let me repeat this for the Richard G’s of the world. The auto fleet is not going to go all electric overnight. It will take years and years and guess what…the grid will expand and adapt with it. Just like it has since before you were born.

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MarkinWI Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:27 pm

Carcus @ 101 – Yeah, I understood that, but I don’t assume that even GM is telling us everything that they got planned, let alone Toyota, etc. I’m happy that Ford is on board. I’d love to see both of them do well.

JEC @113 – I do remember you calling JC. I also remember that the military has expressed a healthy interest in developing EVs. Fuel costs are a major problem for even routine training missions. Getting it out to field is a major problem.

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Jeffhre Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:34 pm

DonC 60 “And they will have to defend that design by every available legal means in order to prevent anyone from using an alternative charging system with their vehicles.”

That’s exactly why this is needed. If PBP can close it’s system to all but subscribers that could make it frustrating for potential or actual plug in buyers. If car makers, utilities and power providers can standardize their physical requirements, then a Volt driver would only be separated from a provider like PBP by a swipe of a credit card. Since PBP intends to charge their systems at off peak hours, with renewable sources, that works out well for a Volt buyer and the utility companies, plus helps GM. If the GM initiative fails and Volt drivers are locked out of PBP and others by physical design and software limitations, then this limits plug-in acceptance.

It would be like pulling into a gas station in 1923 and being told you’re not a subscriber so they won’t sell you gas. You’d be P* off, maybe you’d come back later and find a sympathetic attendant, only to discover the nozzle is designed to lock you out anyway. Not conducive to expanding Detroit’s sales then or now.

Make it as convenient as the customers want, when they want. We’ll never know why they may want so many options (range anxiety maybe) but it’s sure they will.

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Dave K. =D~ Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:38 pm

hi GmsAJoke #131,

“IT WILL TAKE YEARS FOR YOUR CAR TO MAKE A DENT IN THE ELECTRIC GRID… ”

_______________________

If each household can make a few simple unit mods the effect of EV’s on the grid will be imperceptible. I have replaced ALL bulbs with low energy coils. And replaced my dinosaur water heater with a smaller model. Also had double pane windows installed throughout (tax credit).

This adds up to savings of $25-$30 a month = a daily Volt charge.

=D~

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GmsAJoke Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:46 pm

Dan Petit Austin TX.

What the he(( are you talking about?? You must work for the government and the IRS in particular. All the paperwork and extra “accountants” to figure out that $hit is what has it take hours upon hours to figure out a none w2 tax return. The amount of dollars wasted and paper wasted figureing out all that crap will more than offset whatever you are trying to save. You must not be trying to save a tree today.

“Green Garnishment”?? “carbon tax credit”?? Do you green turds do any thinking on your own, or do you just believe whatever the media is pushing at the time.

God save Al Gore..the biggest do as I say not as I do person in the world.
God save Pickens…He made billions on pushing his oil, now he wants us to believe he has a “Plan” so he can make more billions pushing his water rights, nat gas rights, and be the only electric provider with the taxpayer supplying the grid for his water and electric distribution network. And as far as putting all cars on NatGas, he owns rights to and would love to see the price jump as high as oil once did.

Your gonna love his plan when it cost you 10 bucks to turn on your stove and cook a couple of eggs.

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GmsAJoke Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:50 pm

Dave K,
Exactly. It is amazing how people just don’t get it and believe anything the media is pushing at the time.

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Cautious Fan Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:11 pm

Hmmm. So is the Volt going to San Fran and Wash. DC first? I guess those would be good markets to start with, San Fran for the the environmentalists, and DC for the publicity with law makers. I guess us pee-ons in the Midwest will have to sit tight while GM panders to the lawmakers a bit.

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Jeffhre Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:14 pm

Cautious Fan

It’s just a numbers game – nothing personal…

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Jeffhre Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:21 pm

GmsAJoke

Yeah it’s weird. After having their barely beating hearts ripped out and handed back to them by a market that cut their sales by 50% for not being prepared for the downturn, they suddenly want to plan and prepare for something that may not make a difference for years. Weird.

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Dan Petit Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:47 pm

I really agree that I’d never have 3,600 psi of natural gas in a tank in the trunk. Not hydrogen either.
Of course you can joke about who is left to pay what taxes when just about everyone in the country is in hair thin economical margins.
We got into this bad scene due to decisions made in this country at the top most levels of government (the last 8 years of it) as well as corporations with the attitude that everything will be OK if we only have no restrictions (updated regulations) to do lots and lots more of whatever makes the execs seem more profitable. And now we must pay, you and I.
But in improving efficiencies where we can, we must. I notice that that post I had referred to did not show up in this last thread when I came back and turned on my computer again, which makes me a little concerned about the integrity of the site.
Perhaps there were lots of other posts “blasting” that post, (and it was pulled out) and my response to it was merely an attempt to be critically-whimsical about someone who suggested something pretty stupid and crass.
Dan Petit. Austin TX

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James E. Says:
February 3rd, 2009 at 11:46 pm

Rashiid #47.

I agree….

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Plug-In-Ready Infrastructure May Be Chevrolet Volt's Key to Success - CleanCarTalk Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 2:53 am
Dave K. =D~ Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 5:43 am

Ford announces battery supplier for plug-in hybrid
AP: Wednesday February 4, 12:27 am ET

Ford says Johnson Controls-Saft to supply battery for plug-in hybrid vehicle

WASHINGTON (AP) — Ford Motor Co. said Johnson Controls-Saft will supply the battery system for the automaker’s first production plug-in hybrid electric vehicle beginning in 2012.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090204/ford_plug_ins.html

=D~

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The Grump Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 6:33 am

#66 N Riley says: After looking at the link you provided, I can see why a simple plug would not be feasible. Their plans apparently will incorporate wiring for two-way communication with the power grid.
——————————————-
Well, there goes my idea of running an extension cord out the door of my Motel 6 room to charge my car. I’ve said this many times before – the Volt keeps getting worse and worse. Now, Gm is over-engineering something as simple as a 110V plug-in, something I use every day – no instruction manual required. If you guys want your car yapping to the electric company (and the federal government, eventually), be my guest. I want my car to keep its mouth shut.
——————————————–
Not to worry, big gov’t lovers – our fearless leaders spend every waking hour of every day thinking of how to separate the taxpayer from his/her last dollar. In Maryland, the infrastructure already exists – emission inspection stations could easily be used to monitor yearly mileage, and assess road taxes (or any other tax they choose), based on that mileage. Just drive in, and they check the odometer – it’s that simple. Fail to comply, and tag renewal is suspended.
———————————————–
BTW, #15 solo2500nt, you don’t screw the government, THEY screw you. Try a search for Waco, TX on the net, and you may find out what happens when you try to screw the government. They bust your door down, kill your dog, kick your cat, waive guns in your children’s faces, and brutally package you for transport to jail. No, you DON’T screw the government (unless you ARE the government).

Have a nice day, citizen

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 6:33 am

Statik #108,

And what about the Astra ? +283.3 %

Ok the absolute numbers are low. But could it be that the US tastes finally meet the European ones ?

This is relative good news for the – if I remember correctly – Delta platform, i.e. the one on which the Volt is built.

Regards,

JC NPNS

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Shawn Marshall Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 8:45 am

GM is banging the dumb slowly.

Statik is Nutz for Lutz.

Green is mean.

Nukes + (X)EVs = the dawn of a new age in USA

(Apologies to CDavis et al)

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Mitch Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 10:05 am

#1 Charlie H

“I have a plulg in my garage. Why should the public be spending anything to support the Volt?”

Everyone to Charlies house…got a power bar?

Really though, if the volt can differentiate between 120, and 240, (which cuts the charge time in 1/2, then why not have public ones at 575 3phase? likely the volt could take it, and the charge time is going to drop to about 30 minutes..575 is a commercial standard..stop, plug in, grab a coffee..hit the can, have a smoke and hit the road again using electric…

Not having public charging available if electrification of transport is the (ultimate) goal, is like not having gas stations because you can get a tank at your house..(and you can…I have a farm and have 3..thank you very much)

or no restaurants because you have a kitchen or can pack a cooler

or no washrooms because you have a bathroom…

You say get the Volt built..if there is no futur plan..then why..it has to have mass appeal and that means NOT being a neighborhood commuter..people will want to go on the highway. (one reason for the ICE,) but if I could plug and charge QUICKLY, you can bet your a$$ I will use it…

(Quote)
Zero X Owner Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:28 pm

The word is out – San Francisco and Washington are the first cities targeted by GM for the Volt release, supposedly on their electric infrastructure. The PR translation from GM = This is for northern cities only and was forced on us by liberal California and Washington (government). Another bad move, GM.

They could (should) have targeted Texas and Florida first, which are more red, more rural and just as well (better, actually) set up for electric car adoption, or better yet, had a nationwide release, starting in Detroit.

My overall impression is that GM knows little or nothing about actual use patterns and behavior of existing electric vehicle owners and little or nothing about electrical infrastructure or interfaces in different locations around the US. New suburb garages, minimalls and modern business parks will be the most convenient place for EV charging. GM, through their latest announcement, appears like an old dinosaur unable to learn how a new game works in real world, modern infrastructure and residential and business developments, which have changed since 1945. Really.

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Zero X Owner Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 12:38 pm

Everyone wants coin up front from EV users. The special plug is to limit your access to regular electrical power, so they can claim that electric vehicles aren’t viable, force you to pay for power and submit data that can be used against you, when a plain old regular cord and plug work just fine. Thanks for gaming the consumer before there’s even market penetration. Way to put the cart before the horse. The fix is in. GM kills the electric car, again.

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Zero X Owner Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 1:58 pm

If GM is providing regular plugs for access to regular outlets (220 and/or 110), they need to start a massive education program to get that information out to the buying public immediately, including pictures of the consumer (not vehicle) end of the plugs. If they are doing a weird plug on the consumer end, restricted to special charging stations, the adoption of the Volt will be severly slowed, while the US retrofits hundreds of millions of electrical outlets that already work just fine. Your refrigerator and clothes dryer don’t need special plugs to get their electricity, why should your car?

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Zero X Owner Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 2:40 pm

On the other hand, kudos to GM for taking a broad, comprehensive view of the consumer end of the market, tachling consumer incentives, charging infrastructure, codes and permits to allow pay for (or free) charging stations to be installed, commercial and government fleet purchases, and utility rates that encourage plug-in use. They could see both PR benefits being perceived as local consumer advocates and have tremendous profit and local influence potential as a long term result.

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Mitch Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 3:07 pm

Zero X Owner says “Your refrigerator and clothes dryer don’t need special plugs to get their electricity, why should your car?”

umm yes they do…your stove plug and dryer plug (both 220V) are different, from idgre (which runs on 110), again different, my 220v window AC is a differnt plug again froim those 2….

what country are you from? Many special appliances (dryers, A/C units, stoves welders etc) have specialized plugs…

as for retrofitting for a special receptacle..no biggie… pliers a couple screw drivers and about 10 minutes…(15 if you count the time and bother to turn off the breaker first..lol)

as for your “hundreds of millions of plugs..”

nice to see you at least acknowledge the huge market potential…lol

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idahofarmboy Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

What is the point of an electric car that can’t be plugged in wherever I want. Even my shaver is smart enough to adapt from 110 to 220 with no problems. It should be just as easy to build a car that can adapt to whatever juice you give it from 110 to 220 to 500+ V. I don’t see why you shouldn’t be able to plug it into whatever power source you want, and just use simple plug adapters to plug it into whatever outlet you want, just like I do with my shaver when I travel out of the country. I can also do the same with my laptop. It’s also smart enough to take 110-220 V, 50 Hz – 60 Hz and its smart enough to know when it is full and stop charging all on its own without “communicating” with anything else through other wires. Don’t make it more complicated than it has to be. If my remington shaver and my laptop can do it, why can’t your car. Whatever regulatory elctronics are necessary for proper charging should be INSIDE the car!

Second complaint. When did the Volt get hit with the Ugly Stick? When did it become so ugly and PLAIN? I fell in love with the concept, you know, the car shown during the Superbowl last year. The car that shows up when you do a google image search. What is that UGLY THING doing at the top of this page?! Is Ugly cheaper to make? I am quickly loosing faith and becoming disillusioned with what I thought the Volt would be.

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Mitch Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 4:25 pm

153 idahoboy…

re second complaint…

welcome to 2009…the change happened many months ago…

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Zero X Owner Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:28 pm

Mitch:

Newflash. Existing 220 volt plugs (stove, dryer, air conditioner) are not special, just different. I suspect that we agree but you may not realize that. I want GM to use something that regular consumers can instantly use with any existing 110/220 outlet they have access to (perhaps a cord with four plugs, a 110, and the three different but very common 220 plugs you mentioned. That’s no different than one off the shelf adapter I currently have). Idahofarmboy gets it.

If the Volt provides a regular 110 and a regular 220 plug for the consumer end, I will quit my yammering. But that GM hasn’t publicly addressed this important point scares me. Consumers are instantly put off by weird and new. I can plug my existing electric vehicle into any existing regular 110 or 220 outlet anywhere in the US instantly, with no pliers, screwdrivers, and electrician required. Why should the Volt be any more difficult? Waiting for GM to reduce natural fears….

To idahofarmboys second complaint: They had to make it aerodynamic. If you think that excellent aerodynamics are plain and ugly, I urge you to visit a military museum and look at the fighter jets.

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Zero X Owner Says:
February 4th, 2009 at 7:40 pm

good point from idahofarmboy. If the Volt consumer end plug can go into any existing standard cheap adaptor (110/various 220) to plug into any existing available electircal outlet, problem solved. Still waiting for GM assurance on this point and pictures of consumer end Volt plug and reassurance of existing adaptor compatability….

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Paul-R Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 6:12 pm

Boy, some of these comments are really absurd.

Does everyone own a house with garage to plug in at? No.

Will people with pure EVs (not just EREV) want more places to plug in at? Yes.

Did the article mention anything about special EV plugs being required? No.

All this griping about conspiracies and bad decisions seems a little premature.

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Zero X Owner Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

@ Paul

Are there already hundreds of million of existing electrical outlets in public places, businesses, at work, in shopping centers, etc., etc. (NOT just house garages, though most folks who could afford a Volt in the first year WILL own (or rent) houses with garages and/or outside outlets – simple socioeconomics there) that EV drivers just want to use now, as is?

No argument that EVs drivers want more outlets. You missed the point. GM appears to want there to be new, special charging stations which may require plugs that don’t work in existing electrical outlets, thus massively restricting EV use. We simply don’t know if that’s the case ot not, though, because GM refuses to show the consumer end of the plug(s).

What conspiracies? That’s out of left field. When GM is demanding that an entire nation creates new infrastructure before they will put their product on the road, it’s time to send them a reality check. The BYD plug in hybrids are already on the road and have multiple plugs that can work with:
1. regular existing outlets (like our 110)
AND
2. high charge but still common existing outlets (like our 220, for clothes dryers, stoves or air conditioners)
AND
3. super fast, new, special EV charging stations (what kind of electricity the Coloumb stations already in the San Francisco Bay area use, the type of plugs they have and are compatable with, etc. is all consumer critical, useful information missing from the article).

If GM plans to provide ALL 3 of those, I have nothing to say and will quit my whining. So…

SHOW US THE PLUG(S), GM….

“Does everyone own a house with garage to plug in at? No.” That is off topic and does not address the complaint.

“Will people with pure EVs (not just EREV) want more places to plug in at? Yes.” The new vehicle end plug shown in the picture coming off the charger is not clear whether it is a standard female outlet, only covered. This MUST be stated explicitly in articles and by GM, repeatedly, if consumers are not going to be scared off. If it is a standard plug, then I can use it on my existing EV. If it is not, then we have a problem, Houston. So far, all articles, GM PR, test drivers, etc. have been completely silent on this critical issue.

“Did the article mention anything about special EV plugs being required? No.” Neither does it mention that the consumer end plug(s) is (are) a standard plag that works with existing common 110 AND 220 outlets. Nor does it state whether the vehicle end cords from the charging stations have regular female outlets (110 for my EV is prefered by me personally, so I have time to finish my cell phone calls). The article neither confirms nor denies the critical question. We, the consumer, need to know the details, and set GM and cities right if they are getting it wrong. The charging stations pictures I have seen in other articles show only one cord, so I do not know whether to interpret that as being 110 for topping off or ???

“All this griping about conspiracies and bad decisions seems a little premature.” There are more EVs on the road every day worldwide, including the BYD F3DM. GM didn’t seem to think that making a PR release on this topic was premature, so why would you consider wanting useful information, critical for consumer use, to be premature?

Again, a little concrete information goes a long way in resolving uncertainy. Anyone at GM-Volt have any hard info on the consumer end plug(s)?

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Zero X Owner Says:
February 5th, 2009 at 8:05 pm

Dave G just made my day:

http://gm-volt.com/2009/01/23/gm-qa-with-bob-kruse-on-the-chevy-volts-batteries/

I follow EVs and I totally missed that. Way to have it hidden on the back page (sorry, GM-Volt site).

How come no one set me straight?

Why isn’t GM screaming this from the rooftops (along with the hundreds of mile sof real world range, gas her up, go) instead of making people think there needs to be restrictive, special, new, massive infrastuture in place first and that the Volt runs out of batteries at 40 miles and then has to be recharged overnight (sadly, that’s what many people think after seeing GM’s marketing).

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Paul-R Says:
February 6th, 2009 at 6:57 pm

Zero X Owner,

Sorry, but I’ve been reading and posting to gm-volt.com for almost two years now and I’ve read similar GM conspiracy theories over and over and over again. People watch “Who Killed The Electric Car”, then they show up here breathing fire and assuming the worst. For example, the Volt is just a publicity stunt, the Volt will only be leased so GM can kill it, the Volt will require a leased battery so GM can kill it, the Volt will require OnStar, etc. The conspiracies keep coming, and so far none of them have been true. Back on topic…

The article says nothing about a special consumer-side plug. You honestly think GM is going to require every Volt customer to have a special outlet wired into every charge location? No, I don’t think the folks at GM are that incredibly stupid. Guess we’ll see.

This article is about GM preparing the public. Where I live, there are not millions of public outlets offering free or metered electricity. Most exterior outlets are on private residential/business property, and the owners of those outlets may or may not want me taking their electricity. Some may want to prevent it, and some may want to offer it as an enticement, and some may want to offer it as a metered service. Fast charging may also require new standards and hardware. That’s the “infrastructure” they’re talking about. Chances are most politicians and business owners do not know what’s coming, and that’s what this article is about. GM is just trying to educate the public so they are prepared, and I’d be willing to bet the Volt can charge from any standard 110V or 220V outlet.

So how about we wait for some evidence before we crucify poor GM.

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Bob Rice Says:
February 7th, 2009 at 10:45 am

Hi EVerybody;

Lets hope GM will go with common EXISTING plugs, of the sort that have served the USA 100 years! But you know THEY will try to set the “Standard” uncompatable with OTHER EV builders or us home converters? I mean, look at the silly paddle setup on the EV-1? You COULDN”T charge a homemade conversion ANYWAY with THAT setup? Hell! All we want is a 120 volt out let or a240 RV hookup, like you plug your Motorhome in to? Noooo That would be too easy? This “Charging Standard needs to be nipped in the bud!

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Zero X Owner Says:
February 8th, 2009 at 2:23 pm

Paul

For better or worse, the best evidence we have from GM on EVs is their past behavior on them, which included the requirement that every GM EV customer to have a special outlet wired into every charge location (to use their weird fast charging paddle with NO other options), negative marketing, restrictions on consumers and vehicle distribution and failure to sell even one of them. Based on this real world evidence, the burden is completely on GM to assuage my fears that they will do it all again. Every time they have gotten slack before, they have stabbed the consumer in the back. I’m all for fast charging, but let’s make sure that the Voly ALSO has what it takes to use the existing infrastructire which is already everywhere. So I fully intend to keep holding their feet to the fire on the Volt until I am driving my purchased one down my street. I’ll try to buy mine before you.

Last, you may missed that Dave G already clamed my fears a LITTLE with th epicture from this article:

http://gm-volt.com/2009/01/23/gm-qa-with-bob-kruse-on-the-chevy-volts-batteries/

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