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Opel Ampera to Use Gas/E85 Generator, Not Diesel, and Chevy Volt Will go to Europe Too

January 27th, 2009 | Posted in: Generator, Marketing, Opel, Voltec

We just found out last night, GM had given its European Voltec-propelled EREV sedan an official name, the Opel Ampera. We also were given a teaser photo indicating that the car had a very similar styling to the Chevy Volt (see above) although when compared directly, seems to have a squatter, wider, more splayed-out aggressive look.

I was able to gain some more information about the car and what it represents from GM sources.

GM wants it to be clear that although the Opel Ampera will indeed arrive first in Europe as a production vehicle, that they also intend to bring the Chevy Volt there as well. This will then give European customers two GM extended-range electric car options for sale.

I was also told that the Ampera will use the same Voltec platform underpinning the Chevy Volt and that it will have the same 1.4 L generator burning gasoline/E85. Specifically, it will not have a diesel generator despite that fact that such a possibility had previously been demonstrated in the Opel Flextreme concept.

Furthermore, Volt vehicle line director Frank Weber wrote a post about the Ampera on GMs Fastlane blog. He noted the Ampera “will be true to its roots by offering the distinctive styling, dynamic efficiency, versatility and affordability European customers have come to expect from Opel.”

He also outlined the similarities of the Volt and the Ampera as follows:

-The Opel Ampera and Chevrolet Volt are production programs designed to meet the needs of thousands of customers (not a modified production vehicle for fleet or demo drives.)

-The Opel Ampera and Chevrolet Volt will meet all safety standards for North America, Europe and Asia.

-The Opel Ampera and Chevrolet Volt will give most drivers a petroleum-free daily driving experience without range-anxiety associated with battery electric vehicles

-The Opel Ampera and Chevrolet Volt will offer a fun and highly refined driving experience

Source (FastLane)

Posted by: Lyle

95 Responses to “Opel Ampera to Use Gas/E85 Generator, Not Diesel, and Chevy Volt Will go to Europe Too”

Right Lane Cruiser Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

Cool. The more options the better.

How long does anyone think it will take to get an “Opal body kit” for the Volt over here in the States?

Since the Opel seems to be spec’d for 36mi of AER, do we know if the car is simply heavier or if GM chose a smaller battery that can meet the (somewhat gentler than EPA) rating tests in the EU?

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canehdian Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 2:32 pm

Completely misread it, hah.
I still think diesel is the better choice.
Higher energy density and other options available (biodiesel)

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Murray Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

Gut reaction here is that I’d prefer the Amp to the Volt…style-wise anyway…
Too bad we dont get both options like the Europeans eventually will…then again…maybe Opel will end up jumping over to the US someday?

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Gsned57 Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 2:37 pm

So if there is no difference between the Volt and the Ampera I guess there’s not much to get excited about here. No engine difference and nothing but a badge/grill change.

“This will then give European customers two GM extended-range electric car options for sale.” No it won’t. It’s the exact same car. I think the volt is great, but you can’t say they are two different cars just because the badge is different.

Get the Caddy to Europe and a minivan-volt to the US and really offer multiple GM eRev’s for sale. I’ll buy one (maybe 2)

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Dave B Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 2:38 pm

Yeah, if they’re offering both in Europe, mise well do it here. But I still think they should offer a cross-over, coupe, SUV, etc. before doubling up on the sedan offerings (especially in Europe). What gives?

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Dave G Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 2:42 pm

Yeah, when you put them right next to each other, the Ampera does look much better. The doors are different. Any news on the aerodynamics? If the Cd is good, we should use those doors on the Volt as well. Or just forget the current body style altogether, use the Ampera body with a Chevy bowtie, and call tha the Volt.

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Eric Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 2:49 pm

canehdian Says:
I still think diesel is the better choice.
Higher energy density and other options available (biodiesel)
_____________________________________________________

I agree…..a diesel genset(which can also burn biodiesel) is a good option. Europe is a lot bigger on diesel than the US in the car industry.

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Andy Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 2:53 pm

Does anyone know if the Ampera has 4 doors?

From the teaser photo I can’t tell…

It almost has to be a two door (and possibly smaller) to be different enough from the Volt to be considered a “choice”

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

That should be an interesting thing. To see the Volt stack up against the Opel in direct competition. Somehow I think Europeans will flock to the Opel over the Volt. The Volt will get its fair share, I am sure.

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KentT Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 2:57 pm

Sure, it’s the same basic car but like the Chevy Traverse, GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave they CAN come across as very different vehicles.

I expect the Opal will have a firmer ride but a much more luxurious interior (leather, wood trim, more sound insulation, etc). And of course I think that is what reduces the range to 36 miles all electric vs. the Volt’s 40. More weight means shorter range, gas or electric.

And by the way, the Opal front looks like an Acura. At least until Acura changed to that ghastly “shield” front end style!

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:00 pm

Lyle says: “We also were given a teaser photo indicating that the car had a very similar styling to the Chevy Volt (see above) although when compared directly, seems to have a squatter, wider, more splayed-out aggressive look. ”
——————-

Maybe you can tell that, Lyle, from the above photos, but I can hardly make out the Opel. It is too dark of a picture to see much more than the left front corner of the car. What I can see sure makes it the styling leader over the Volt. IMO.

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:04 pm

“GM wants it to be clear that although the Opel Ampera will indeed arrive first in Europe as a production vehicle, that they also intend to bring the Chevy Volt there as well. This will then give European customers two GM extended-range electric car options for sale.”
———————-

If the Europeans can have two EREV vehicles to chose from, why can’t Americans and Canadians have two? Bring the Opel version to this side of the little pond either as an Opel or as a Saturn and do it at the same time the Volt is introduced in Europe. That seems only fair. IMO.

Edited: #3 Murray and I were thinking along the same lines. Great minds…..

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David K (CT) Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:08 pm

Andy @ 8

If the Opel is a two door, then I (personally) would prefer it to the Volt.

I just want my Volt (Opel)!

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:09 pm

#4 Gsned57

I think the styling of the two cars will be different enough to make it a worthwhile choice between the two. If I had to chose, based on the little I can see of the Opel, I would chose the Opel design over the Volt. It just looks better. Again, as far as I can tell from the above pictures. I am sure there will be interior difference also.

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:13 pm

#6 Dave G

“Or just forget the current body style altogether, use the Ampera body with a Chevy bowtie, and call tha the Volt.”
——————

Sure seems like GM has opened a “can of worms” with this announcement. They are going to make about half of the Volt lovers into Opel lovers with this car. “The Opel just looks better.” How many times is that statement going to roll through GM’s collective mind, I wonder?

Yeah, let’s just use the Opel with a Chevy badge and call it a Volt. I vote for that. Damn right!

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:19 pm

Statik,

Is GM getting any money from the European Union or some of its members? Maybe that helps to explain them introducing an Opel Voltec concept instead of just exporting the Volt to Europe. What do you think?

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:22 pm

#10 KentT

“I expect the Opal will have a firmer ride but a much more luxurious interior (leather, wood trim, more sound insulation, etc). And of course I think that is what reduces the range to 36 miles all electric vs. the Volt’s 40. More weight means shorter range, gas or electric.”
————–

I would not be surprised if this were so. Plus, the Opel will probably be sold as an upscale version of the Volt with the Volt as the entry level vehicle for the Europeans who cannot afford the Opel or just want an American name brand car.

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Dave G Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:27 pm

#13 David K (CT) Says: “If the Opel is a two door, then I (personally) would prefer it to the Volt.”
————————————————————————————–
The Opel Ampera is a 4-door.

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George K Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:29 pm

They were showing this Opel Flextreme as the European version of the Volt in ‘07. Looks pretty much like the pic, as much as you can tell.

I always thought it looked pretty darn cool. Very futuristic. Perhaps it doesn’t appeal to as wide an audience as the Volt.

http://auto.pege.org/2008-genf/opel-flextreme.htm

=D~~~~

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Darius Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:41 pm

I just hapy to knowing that.

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David K (CT) Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:43 pm

#18 Dave G Says: “The Opel Ampera is a 4-door.”

#19 post (George K) shows a 2-door, but after seeing a side view, I’ll stick to my Volt.

I definitely don’t like the look…that’s the reason why I would never spend money on a Pruis – to me a car is more that a vehicle to get me from point A to point B. Maybe less so than when I was younger, but I still need to be “turned on” when I turn on my car.

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:56 pm

#19 George K

The car shown in the link you provided is not what they will show in March, I highly suspect. It will be essentially the Volt with a different front, slightly different doors and probably some changes to the rear and the interior. But definitely not what the Opel Flextreme concept looked like. The Flextreme concept was a beautiful vehicle, although a big stretch to expect it to be produced looking like that.

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Ed M Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:58 pm

Well we’ve got the volts (chevy volt) and soon the amps (opel ampera), all we need now is the resistence and we’ll have Ohms law in a nutshell.

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Ed M Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 3:59 pm

sorry, that should be resistance

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David K (CT) Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 4:00 pm

Ed M Says:

“Well we’ve got the volts (chevy volt) and soon the amps (opel ampera), all we need now is the resistence and we’ll have Ohms law in a nutshell.”

———————————————————————————–

Good one Ed…hehe (v=ir)

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Jason M. Hendler Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 4:12 pm

GM has to throw Opel a bone like this, and allow them to sell their nameplate in their territory, as it is originally based on an Opel platform. Seems more than fair to me, and probably makes sense market-wise.

I do hope they get a diesel variant on the road eventually, as many Europeans would prefer that – although, the mileage of series hybrid is so good, they may not care to split hairs on whatever mileage bump is gained by switching.

It may be that demand is so high for this configuration, that GM just wants to get the vehicles to all markets as quickly as possible, and didn’t want to wait for the diesel version before introducing them in Europe.

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 4:24 pm

#26 Jason

It is difficult to measure demand for either of these two vehicles. Sure, if you use the people on this site as a gauge, the demand is seriously high. But are we representative of the population as a whole? I suspect not. Not to say the the Volt and Opel will not sell well, because I believe it will and they will create a ground swell for further develop or other vehicles like them or superior to them. It is only the top half of the first inning of this ballgame and we don’t know how the score will turn out. We believe we will be on the winning side and that is about all we can nail down. Sort of.

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harrier1970 Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 4:25 pm

How about a poll to ask everyone here at GM-Volt.com if they like the Volt or Ampera styling better.

Count me in for the Ampera!

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Jackson Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 4:29 pm

Ed M:

They can’t do that, because …

Resistance is futile!!!

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Jackson Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 4:32 pm

N. Riley and Harrier:

Let’s see some pics of the Ampera as good and detailed as the production intent Volt’s before we have any polls.

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 4:37 pm

Speaking of wining and playing games, how many of you think the firing of the girls basketball coach at that Texas private school was correct? His girls team beat this other team 100 – 0 and because he did not feel the need to apologize for his team’s play, he was fired. In today’s world you are punished for success, it seems. His team played a fair game and did not do anything underhanded as far as I can tell. I am just wondering about what other people might think. Not the proper topic for our site, but we have varied from time to time (like daily).

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 4:40 pm

#30 Jackson

I did not ask for a poll although I said that from what I could see I would chose the Opel Ampera. I agree we need to wait to see more before declaring the Opel Ampera as the winner. It does look interesting from the teaser pictures. But teasers are just teasers and does not always show something for what it is.

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David K (CT) Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 4:41 pm

#27 N Riley Says: “It is difficult to measure demand…”

Most (probably 90%) of the people I’ve talked to don’t even know about the Volt, let alone the unique configuration of the drive train.

And as far as that TX coach being fired for winning 100-0….ridiculous!

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Redeye Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 4:49 pm

#2 and #7

Diesel would be good. Never liked them in the past because they were noisy (sounded like the rods were loose) and they were stinky.

The fuel still stinks unless you burn bio.then the exhaust smells like french fries.

They just LOVE Diesel in Europe you’d think GM would use diesel at least over there.

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vincent Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 4:49 pm

#32 teasers just like a “push up bra”.
You never really know till you can see the whole deal..lol

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Bob McGovern Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:13 pm

They have given the five-door four-seater car its own name, the Opel Ampera. As well a teaser photo has been released. There are no technical specs at this point, however the photo shows the body is unmistakably that of the Chevy Volt although with signature Opel branding features. It is unknown whether this vehicle will use a diesel or gasoline range extender, but the first 60 km of driving will indeed be on pure electricity.

Would be nice if the cameraman had a flash unit. Then we could see the two cars.

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Rob Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:17 pm

Let’s face it, GM has to do it if they want to sell this platform in Japan. Opel is practically the only GM brand that sells on that market.

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Adrian Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:19 pm

#10 KentT, you have a good point with the three vehicles (though you forgot to refer to the Saturn version). The interiors are very different and there is a slight ride difference between the Buick and GMC. I test drove both before buying the Buick.

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Cautious Fan Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:21 pm

I hope Volt 2.0 has a diesel. I think it makes perfect sense for this concept. The classic shortcoming (startup lag, initial exhaust, no power) aren’t a big deal with an EREV, not to mention the problems have been solved with technology, albeit it does cost extra.

Of course, diesel AND electric might be too much for people to swallow. Baby steps. Baby steps.

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stas peterson Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

GM intends to produce lots of EREVS. The Orlando Micro-van wil be one someday, I’m willing to wager.

But all the thirst for diesel is misplaced. Its still two years, or late 2010 before they see production. That is getting close to HCCI production too. Especially as operating as a constant speed generator prime mover, they can sit in the HCCI window for almost their entire operation, and achieve the fuel economy of a diesel without many of the drawbacks. Part of what is delaying HCCI introduction, is widening the band where HCCI operation will work. For the EREV generator that is no issue at all. Any thoughtful engineer wil bet that HCCI wil be introduced on EREVS, first.

What is the benefit? Several hundred pounds of lighter Otto cycle engines, versus the heavier Diesel engines and chassis components; and even in the EU there are some Diesel emission regulations. Just NOT Many!!

The phony EU Greens don’t mind poisoning their own citizens, even as EU automakers prepare to ship much cleaner T2B5 vehicles to America. And EU future standards are certainly decades behind the US T2B5 Diesel standards, that all automakers face in model year 2010 here. Otto cycle exhaust cleanup equipment is also cheaper, than even primitive EU Diesel equivalents,

In short, there is no need for Diesel in EREVS.

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Adrian Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

I am sad to see only E85 as an option. E85 isn’t all that feasible since to mass produce since it drives food prices through the roof even in small spikes like in 2008.
I would bet then the diesel engine wasn’t even engineered for production. It makes sense if you consider the lower volumes that seemingly predicted, even if Europe is diesel oriented.
A side note, since this is to be sold in Europe has there be any speculation on a top speed? I don’t think I have ever read anything like that here…

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Cautious Fan Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:24 pm

In case anyone cares, I read an article about how the gov’t failed to save the ailing piano industry in the 1930’s. Very interesting, though consider the source. The author draws parallels with the auto industry today.

http://mises.org/story/3253

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Adrian Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:30 pm

#40 stas… Diesel takes less total energy to produce, and now in it’s cleaner state, it is the greenest oil based fuel option when the whole picture is taken into account.

In short, there is definate need for diesel (until hydrogen is ready) in the EREVS.

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Cautious Fan Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

#40 Stas

Could you provide some links on the “HCCI” concept. I’m not an engine guy, but your claims suprise me and I want to read more on it.

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Adrian Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:34 pm

#42, Kimball continued to make pianos in Indiana until 1996 when the lack demand forced them to close the doors. So, that statement isn’t quite true. The industry lasted, just the lack of demand made it unprofitable to produce.

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stas peterson Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:34 pm

From my experience, Europe an cities are older and less spread out; fewer, post-Auto, cities exist. So the daily commuting distance is probably somewhat less in Europe.

If 80% of the US auto owners can commute and perform their daily errands in in 40 miles, I wonder what the equivalent 80% daily usage figure is in Europe?

At a guess, the Opel Ampera’s electric range probably indicates it is 60 km/36 miles or so.

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Adrian Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:37 pm

I would say the diesel could easily be designed to operate the same and get even higher fuel mileage. It is by nature a better, simplier engine design (though with the exhaust drawback). With the clean design the Germans came up, why use the less green manufacturing process of gasoline?

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old man Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:53 pm

Adrian
I am under the impression that Henry Ford made John D. Rockefeller much richer because he could start selling the byproduct of making kerosene, I [think but am not positive] that the byproduct was a form of gasoline which he had been burning to get rid of it. as prior to Mr. Ford there was no market for it.

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statik Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:54 pm

#16 n riley said:

Statik, Is GM getting any money from the European Union or some of its members? Maybe that helps to explain them introducing an Opel Voltec concept instead of just exporting the Volt to Europe. What do you think?
==================

They attempted to get the ball rolling in a few Euro-zone regions where they have a significant manufacturing presence, specifically Sweden and Germany…and they were quickly told ‘where to go,’ in not so many words.

Side note: I don’t find it surprising that the Opel will have a gas ICE, it is strictly a rebadge, GM does not have the scratch to do anything else.

In a related thought, the Volt will be released in Europe ‘as is,’ because the “Opel Ampera” is still nothing, by that I mean, there is are no real plans for it…no matter how many times GM says it is a “production program”

Proof? I don’t have any really…other than common sense. The Volt isn’t out until 2011, and it is being produced at great expense in Hamtramck, Michigan, with plans long underway. Is there any word on where this Opel will be produced? Nope. Which Euro-Delta II line is slated for shutdown and retrofit? None. So it is a 2013..at best I figure.

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 5:57 pm

#35 Vincent

“#32 teasers just like a “push up bra”.
You never really know till you can see the whole deal..lol”
——————-

I have experienced that same thing. Just shows you should not get your hopes up too much or get ahead of yourself. Things can turn out somewhat disappointing, sometimes.

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N Riley Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 6:00 pm

#49 Statik

The man with the information once again. As I suspected but it is nice to hear it from the “man who knows”. Thanks. See you tomorrow.

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Jim I Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 6:06 pm

You all can sure make out a lot more from that picture than I can…..

You can’t see the rear view mirrors, can’t even tell if it is a four door, and a good portion of the front end is not visable!

From the description, the base platform is the same. So basically, it has a bit of different sheet metal. Kind of like a Pontiac Sunbird compared to a Chevy Cavalier.

And is Opel a “higher end” brand in Europe? I always thought it was the “Chevy”. That is why I am a bit confused when the opinion is that the interior would be nicer. Does anyone have any info on that?

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cybereye Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 6:06 pm

It posted as “-The Opel Ampera and Chevrolet Volt will meet all safety standards for North America, Europe and Asia.”

I wonder if it will someday will come to North America. It could depend how much demand in North America. If Chevrolet Volt can’t keep up with the demand in North America. GM may bring Opel Ampera to North America.

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noel park Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 6:07 pm

10-88

LJGTVWOTR!!

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The Grump Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 6:15 pm

A few questions for the posters on this site –

1) Would you kindly tell me why anyone in the US would opt for a diesel engine over a gas engine, when diesel prices currently exceed the price of premium gasoline a little, and exceed the price of regular gasoline by more than a dollar a gallon ?

2) What about having to worry about your diesel fuel gelling at night during cold winter nights ? (”get a garage” is not an option when you rent, so let’s not go there).

3) Is there a diesel mechanic nearby who is qualified to work on this new type of diesel engine, and won’t screw it up ?

And, yes – getting smelly diesel fuel on your hands at the pump is a HUGE problem for both male and female car buyers.

These are questions I asked myself back in 2004, when I decided to buy my current Honda Odyssey.
————————————————————-
BTW, I look forward to the day when I won’t have to pump anything into my car anymore – IF the big 3 survive, IF energy prices don’t skyrocket (with everyone connecting cars to the power grid), IF Obama can make good on promises of upgrading the nation’s power grid to handle the additional load, etc.

Old chinese curse says “May you live in interesting times”. We do indeed live in interesting times !

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stas peterson Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 6:25 pm

#44 Cautious Fan,

Homogeneous Compression Charge Ignition, HCCI, is an engineering mouthful to describe a mode of ICE engine operation. What it refers to is operation of a normal OTTO cycle ( your gasoline fueled) engine, without spark ignition and using fuel compression only, as in a Diesel, to ignite the gasoline or equivalent fuel. This can optimize ICE efficiency and make it equal the Diesel cycle efficiency.

Engineers know that operating in this mode with wide open throttle to minimize pumping losses, obtains the absolute best fuel economy possible in a Gasoline ICE engine, and at least equal to the thermal efficiency of a Diesel cycle engine, and in practice slightly better. The catch is that the OTTO engine can only operate like the pseudo-Diesel in partial load operation. And certain modifications are necessary to the engine. It needs fast-acting,( ie OHC) Variable Valve Technology, and Gasoline Direct Injection for fuel into the cylinder under precise computer control. Most modern engines have multiple valves and OHC VVT. And are getting GDI. All already operate under computer control, but the processing power of the engine computer needs a little step up. That is happening now. GMs Ecotec I-4, and its High Feature V6, both are have these required features, to enable adopting an eventual HCCI mode. The tinier and older Cruze/Volt I4 family, is being updated for this VVT and GDI operation too.

Even cash pressed, Chrysler’s engine families are ready for HCCI. Their I-4 and new Phoenix V6s, are even newer and more advanced, and HCCI ready, than GMs engines. Ford’s engines are equally advanced.

The fly in the ointment is that HCCI only works at some operating conditions of partial load, and the engine has to be ready to cycle between HCCI and conventional spark ignition on a computer’s determination of perhaps every single piston stroke, as load and rpm changes.

That smooth transition, switching back and forth, has been a problem. But if you can achieve HCCI and stay in HCCI mode, that is the most efficient ICE engine operation mode possible. Fuel can be very lean and yet not produce lots of NOx. Fuel burn happens very quickly and little heat is passed to the engine as waste heat. Engineers will have finished improving the ICE started by OTTO in the late 19th century, and always improved incrementally since then.

We are only a few years away from production versions being installed in a car you can buy. Eventually they will all be that way. At a guess, I would say by 2016 or so, HCCI operation will be a normal everyday occurrence in all cars. But the constant rpm and partial load on a ICE generator should allow it to run essentially all of of the time in HCCI.

You can Google HCCI for yourself. I know you will get lots of hits.

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john1701a Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 6:29 pm

…even as EU automakers prepare to ship much cleaner T2B5 vehicles to America…
____________________________

T2B5 is dirtier than most gas vehicles and a joke compared to the hybrids offering SULEV.

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Amazed Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 6:33 pm

My favorite quote in the article is “He noted the Ampera “will be true to its roots by offering the distinctive styling, dynamic efficiency, versatility and affordability European customers have come to expect from Opel.””

Reminds me of the early days when they chose the Chevy badge because it was suppose to be a mass production “affordable” car. Comfortably under $30K I believe.

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VOLT-eLectrified Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 6:40 pm

If you are looking for a 40 mile per day commute or less, who cares if the generator runs on liquid gold. One full tank could last beyond the fuels useful life!!
Lets just get this technology on American roads ASAP.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 6:58 pm

Ampera?
Aptera?

Potato?
Potah toe?

Couldn’t resist……

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Jim in PA Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 7:09 pm

Oh yay. A choice between Ampera/Volt is as exciting as historical choices between a Sunbird/Cavalier, Firebird/Camaro, Alero/GrandAm, Jimmy/Blazer, Cutlass/Malibu and on and on and on…. I thought GM was supposed to eliminate duplicate models? I am afraid that in the absence of any real differentiator, this plan is just stupid. Don’t dilute market impact like this!

I am not normally that critical of GM in this forum, but I can’t even begin to understand this logic. At least put a diesel in the darn thing to make it different.

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igotzzoom Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 7:30 pm

Personally, I’d like to see a diesel range-extender option in the U.S. but I doubt that’s going to happen any time soon. But such an option would definitely make sense for Europe.

Asking “why” GM would offer the Opel and Chevy in Europe, why does Toyota sell the Camry V6 AND the Lexus ES 350? Same difference, it seems.

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CDAVIS Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 7:36 pm

_____________________________________________________
GM needs a European production launch of VOLTEC (VOLT and/or Ampera) in 2010 in order to take the EREV Europe market lead.
_____________________________________________________
Electric Cars + Nuclear Power = American (and European) Energy Independence!
_____________________________________________________

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stas peterson Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 7:55 pm

John 1701,

You are certainly correct. T2B5 merely matches the very dirty end of T2 or LEV II, ULEV emissions.

That is why I have NEVER agreed to urge the relax of rules that we have so laboriously enforced to the clean US air. Many have urged that we allow the EU pollution pig diesels, into the USA. No way!

I constantly criticize those phonies in Europe masquerading as environmentalist Greens. They are quite willing to poison their own citizens even as their automakers ship much cleaner diesels to America. But what do you really expect of Socialist Watermelons? They are no different than the former East Bloc fellow Marxists, and ignore the environmental cesspools they create. They only talk a good show to get elected or appointed, and don’t really give a damn.

We would be moving backwards, were we to do so, and getting dirtier air, which has never happened. Our air is constantly cleaner than it has ever been, despite the bleats of eco-weenie know-nothings and their demagogic Democrat pandering clowns.

T2B5 is the the best and toughest Diesel emission regulation existing in the World; but it is not good enough, and only an interim standard, IMHO. We need something like T2B3 or even T2B2. But there is little urgency. The air quality is pretty good, and will continue to improve with the move to T2B5 and equivalents for cars, trucks, locomotives, and marine vessels.

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NZDavid Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 8:25 pm

stas peterson January 27th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Thanks for your insights into HCCI. I agree it should be fairly easy to have the engine run in its sweet spot, hopes for 60mpg in years to come.

If the Ampera is priced the same as the Volt I would go for the Volt’s extra AER range in a heartbeat.
In my neck of the woods, though, I suspect it will be more the, “here it is take it or leave it” sales method.

Note to Statik. I just saw on the BBC the British govt. is giving several Billlion pounds to automakers who gear up for green vehicle production in Britian, so I wonder if that’s why Vauxhall in included as a possible brand name? In any event, the more Voltec drivetrains out the better IMO.

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Craig Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

The Opel version looks much more stylish. Can we trade the American version for the European version!

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NZDavid Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 8:40 pm

the Ampera can run solely on battery power. If you need to go longer than, say, 60 kilometers, the car continues to drive on electricity that is generated by a small internal combustion engine which also sustains the lithium ion battery.
Alain Visser
Chief Marketing Officer
GM Europe

Actually, I think GM just rounded 40 miles to 60 kilometers without realising the effect such an imprecise translation would have on me. So to amend my previous statement. If both cars have the same range & price, I would go for the Ampera in a heartbeat.

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Redeye Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 8:43 pm

Where is Maynard the German ? He seemed to know about Diesels in use in Europe. He slipped off the radar.

Anyway, some day………………………we will no doubt have many options. You want diesel? You got it !
You wanta the biga battry ? You got it ! All for an optional price of course.
For now just get the Volt wheels and rubber on the road !

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Edwin Mang Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 9:01 pm

I like the world approch that GM is using and would like to appoligize to Lyle for my asking him to be removed . I needed someone out of the path and He tended to speak his mind to openly . But in retrospect He did get his parrachute and he can as of a few weeks ago start back to saying what ever he wants I.E.
Let him out as He does get the car he wanted I hope He will forgive me being rude and fowl mouthed . But on to the next project PRUDENTIAL if you want tell them I am comming and unlike you at them I am angry .

Lemur ( tiger )

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Dave G Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 9:49 pm

#56 stas peterson Says: “At a guess, I would say by 2016 or so, HCCI operation will be a normal everyday occurrence in all cars. But the constant rpm and partial load on a ICE generator should allow it to run essentially all of of the time in HCCI.”
————————————————————————————–
As I understand it, the Volt matchs the power output of the ICE pretty closely with the power demands of the electric motor. That’s why the Volt’s engine uses different RPMs. The only time the engine output is significantly different from the demand of the motor is when the Atkinson cycle ICE is insufficient to power acceleration or uphill driving.

If you ran the ICE at constant output, the increased charging and discharging would wear out the battery much sooner. While constant RPM can vary the power output, there are limits. So if you’re driving at 25MPH on a side street, you don’t want the engine running at max RPM, as this would not be as efficient as a lower RPM.

My main point is that HCCI for the Volt may not be much easier than a car with a regular drivetrain.

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texas Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 9:59 pm

I have to agree with a lot of posts here. It’s the SAME car. It would be a better effort to make something different. That way if one car makes it and the other fails they will gain some knowledge.

It’s not like the market for these cars is going to be that big in the beginning. Can the market really support two of the same? It will be the same size market.

If they did a different class or a different drivetrain the market would be bigger. How much bigger is a question but bigger.

I would like to see a diesel genset for sure. I’m sure it’s weight and expense caused it to be canned but hopefully we will see it a few years after the Volt is released.

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Dan Petit Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 11:30 pm

While teaching advanced diagnostics to diesel techs this evening at a commercial fleet maintenance facility here in Austin, one of the techs brought up the subject of E-85 fuel cost per delivered-mile for light trucks, and, how the power and cost-per-mile were not impressive.
As well, the cost to fertilize corn, plant it and harvest it with diesel in the first place, and that the cost per gallon compared to gas was not an apparent advantage compared to gasoline at the local E-85 retailer, I agreed wholeheartedly that it seemed corn ethanol only seemed to benefit the fertilizer companies.
However, diesel and even biodiesel may have a slightly higher carbon footprint than if ethanol is made from switch grass that grows in dry soils, grows and reseeds itself naturally, grow well on the plains, was here before we were, fed the buffalo before we got here, etc.
I have a strong hunch that GM’s accounting may be actually be doing some “total carbon accounting” regarding all this.
Since light trucks may have a slight acceleration delay in a scan test at 75 % ethanol-sensed content, keep in mind that any vehicle which has in-essence the pistons connected to the road in all manner of ratios, operational heat ranges, driving loads in the cargo bed, driving loads going up and down hills, thermal fuel schedules of engine temp (cold to warm) with which processors must precisely configure injector millisecond pulses within precise performance and emissions requirements, . . . .
most of all of that,
goes away, because,
the Volt ICE only has to run a generator at a
*steady state*
of, say, 1800 rpms (when it finally must run).
The batteries may contribute just enough power to make up for all the other differences in power demand irregularities.
So, what I am saying that while E-85 may be a debatable fuel for highly variable power demands of a directly driven ICE (which is 99 percent of what is here today), a steady-state configuration that is the Volt’s Range Extender is probably just the perfect application for switch grass E-85 (just get out there and harvest it naturally every month just like you have to cut your own lawn every other week.)
The American plains may be able to return to what they looked like before we came over here. Pristine, thanks to the Volt. That would be about as “green” as you could have it. “Switch grass switching on a Volt”.
Dan Petit Austin TX

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Zardoz Says:
January 27th, 2009 at 11:37 pm

Can’t understand lack of diesel option on European version either.

Perhaps, because diesel emissions heavily regulated in Europe, overall production costs cheaper to make gas/E85 engine for both American & Europe versions?

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Johann Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 1:01 am

The picture of the Ampera is not a photo.

It’s an artist’s rendering. But it will be very close to that.

Body will be similar but the options will be different.

Think Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix among many other twin (and sometimes triplet) vehicles.

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Zach Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 1:12 am

Okay… LYLE! Make a poll.

We need a poll to ask which styling the users here like the most.

I would LOVE to see the Ampera (or at least that style/frame/whatever) in the US.

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Dave G Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 1:50 am

#72 Dan Petit,

Lot’s of points to make here.

1) Some of today’s engines actually have the same power and mileage on E85 as on gasoline, but this is not typical. Today’s engines are optimized to run on gasoline, and E85 is an afterthought. If they optimize the engine to run on ethanol, then ethanol would have the same or better better performance as gasoline.

2) I agree that Corn ethanol sucks. We have to move beyond this. Industrial corn requires lots of fertilizer and herbicides which are made from fossil fuels. Also, any energy crop that only uses the seed to make ethanol wastes 90% of the plant.

3) For energy crops like switchgrass, after the ethanol is extracted, there is still some leftover stuff. It turns out that this leftover stuff is perfect for soil remediation. This is why energy crops require little, if any, fertilizer.

4) Switchgrass is only 1 of many potential non-food sources for cellulosic ethanol. Other sources include:
• crop residue (e.g. corn stalks)
• municipal waste (garbage, old tires)
• other energy crops
• forrest/mill (e.g. bark, wood chips, sawdust).
http://www.coskata.com/EthanolFeedstockPotential.asp

5) The Volt’s gas engine will run at one of Several Fixed RPMs, not 1 constant RPM:
http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/26/the-chevy-volt-generator-will-run-at-one-of-several-fixed-rpms/

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Opel Ampera : Seite 2 : Opel Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 3:37 am
Frank B Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 4:13 am

Will the Opel Ampera be available in the US? It’s much better looking than the Volt!

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tim-the-dreamer Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 4:16 am

Excuse me, I really don’t want to be a stick in the mud, but for some reason the ampera reminds me of the new saturn concept vehicle. Especially around the headlights, or am I missing something? Not that it matters mind, since gm owns saturn it makes sense for them to use similar designs. The savings in r&d, especially if they want to get it out asap. At least their serious about getting the wheels rolling. If it is the saturn body then their very shrewd, the tech is tested so you put it in another body and see how it does there and if folks here show an interest in the design; then introduce it here as a saturn. You save on r&d and end up with three proven e-revs instead of two. Volt, converj, and saturn. Not to mention that it could be used to show viability perhaps? I don’t know about anyone else but it looks like a justified use of our tax dollars, at least to me. Smart, very smart.

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Darius Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 5:38 am

Statik,

This time you are not right supporting us with not accurate information.

German government bailout to the Opel 1,8 bil.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/01/09/business/09opel.php

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 6:41 am

Hi all,

The Opel Ampera will be next car over the Chevy Volt because I know practically (by experience) what F. Weber is writing in the fastlane blog : “Most importantly, the Ampera will be true to its roots by offering the distinctive styling, dynamic efficiency, versatility and affordability European customers have come to expect from Opel.”

It is because of those “versatility and affordability” distinctive characteristics of Opel cars on the European markets that I currently own two Opel cars.

Moreover the general customer satisfaction with the Opel dealerships and the overall reliability of the cars (Opel won the first place three years in row above BMW and Mercedes) are positive aspects of the Ampera introduction.

Statik, #49

I got an email confirmation from Chevrolet Belgium that the Volt will be sold in the country in 2011 but the price interval was not to disclosed for now.

Opel people in Belgium think the Volt and Ampera could be produced one day in the Antwerp GM assembly line (where the current Astra models are produced (The Saturn version of the Astra is made there)).

About Diesel vs gas in Europe :

My two cars are diesel ones and I usually use biodiesel from Total.

I may assure you that they are as silent as gas engines, they do not fume nor smell (like French fries) except when the outside temperature is far below 0°C. In that case, the engines must be warm to be comfortable.

Why did I choose diesel engines :

1. The pump price of diesel is lower than the gas price about 0,15 to 0,30€ per liter.
2. The torque of diesel engines is a lot better that the equivalent gas engines.
3. The overall maintenance costs are lower.
4. the “life-expectancy” of the diesel engines is largely superior the the gas engines one. For instance my 3 years old Opel Corsa has made 105.000 kms and runs like a new one, and my 4 years old Opel Astra has made 135.000 kms without any problem. My preceding Opel Astra (with a diesel engine) had 193.000 kms when I sold it to a friend, it still runs and has made 280.000 kms until now without problems.

Regards

JC NPNS

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 7:08 am

A spy photo of the Ampera ?

http://bilder.autobild.de/ir_img/59653417_ccd16c767d.jpg

Your comments ?

JC NPNS

(Quote)
Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 7:16 am

Sorry for the multiple posts :

From autoblid : http://www.autobild.de/artikel/studie-opel-ampera_834977.html

“Mit 151 PS, (…) und kleinem Ottomotor als “Range Extender”.

that is :
“With 151 HP and a little OTTO engine “Range Extender”.

Regards,

JC NPNS

(Quote)
Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 7:40 am

More reasons to choose a gas powered gas RE instead of a diesel one :

Gas engines are cheaper than diesel engines of the same power (For instance, to buy an Opel Corsa, 1.3 CDTI, 75 HP (diesel engine) in Belgium, you pay 1200€ more as MRSP than for an Opel Corsa 1.2, 80 HP (gas engine)).

It seems but I do not have precise data (through an Opel worker) that the weight of the diesel engine (1.3 cdti) is more or less 100kgs higher than the weight of the 1,2 (gas powered) more or less equivalent to the 1.3 CDTI.

Hope that helps,

JC NPNS

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JohnL Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 8:16 am

It’s the same car as the volt. The lighting makes it look squatter. If you look carefully, the lines of the car along the door and a-column are the same.

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statik Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 8:38 am

#80 Darius

Statik,

This time you are not right supporting us with not accurate information.

German government bailout to the Opel 1,8 bil.
=================================

Actually, I still am. Maybe our definitions are different. I count only agreed upon deals, The initial request had very little strings attached, was rebutted outright back in november:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-165-germany-to-gm-%E2%80%9Cup-yours%E2%80%9D/

—-
In early January, Germany ‘tenatively’ agreed to give out ‘up to 1.8B euros,’ however, there is a pantload of strings attached to it which makes it almost impossible to accept. GM ould be more than pressed to even attempt to comply with. Starting of course with full disclosure, plant/work guarantees, retention of cash amounts inside Germany and of course the ‘what if’ GM doesn’t make it clauses.

/that is why GM has said or done nothing on this conditional bailout out since it was announced 3 weeks ago…this deal is like hocking your $5,000 wedding ring for $200, it gets you through the week, but you can never go back home

(Quote)
statik Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 9:16 am

#81 JC

Statik, #49

I got an email confirmation from Chevrolet Belgium that the Volt will be sold in the country in 2011 but the price interval was not to disclosed for now.

Opel people in Belgium think the Volt and Ampera could be produced one day in the Antwerp GM assembly line (where the current Astra models are produced (The Saturn version of the Astra is made there)).
======================

Good info, thanks JC.

I agree that the Antwerp plant is the logical choice for the Volt’s Opel cousin, as it runs the original Delta plant now…although I think that the Astra is being discontinued from there isn’t it? I know they are still planning on making the next gen primarily out of Germany, and the UK…but you probably know better than I.

However, I think after ‘the strike’ in Belgium, GM offered them a couple new ‘unnamed’ models after the Astra moved? I would assume one might be the 2011 Opel Zafira? The other could be this ‘Ampera’? Seems like too far into the future, but who knows.

I was under the impression even before the ‘financial crisis,’ (and moreso now), that likely the Volt would be a stand alone production in Michigan…and we would see the entire project move to Europe for gen 2 for obvious Euro-economic reasons starting around 2015.

I’d love to hear any thoughts you have, generally being ‘right there’ leads to a certain ’sensible/honest’ knowledge that you can get nowhere else.

/always a rumoUr before the facts, lol

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Darius Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 9:21 am

Statik,

You never know details of the deal even after money transfere. Actualy Opel Germany is not in bancrupcy position. But German government is wiling to give suport in case of emergency sitation for Opel. And this is politicaly O.K. for German government independently who are the owners. Speculation about rings and who is foolig who is not talking business and it is like some sort conspiracy theory. Sorry.

On other hand US government does not willing bailout Volvo or Saab and GM and Ford is talking about spin off or liquidate. Sweeds will be not able (or willing) support those two.

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Darius Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 10:03 am

Statik,
You never know details of the deal even after money transfer. Actually Opel Germany is not in bankruptcy position. But German government is wiling to give support in case of emergency situation for Opel. And this is politically O.K. for German government independently who are the owners. Speculation about rings and who is fooling who is not talking business and it is like some sort conspiracy theory. Sorry.
On other hand US government does not willing bailout Volvo or Saab and GM and Ford is talking about spin off or liquidate. Swedes will be not able (or willing) support those two.
(So many letters missing)

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redeye Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 10:10 am

# 77

Well said.

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 10:50 am

Statik #87,

Agreed ,
But in the negociations with the workers unions, it was agreed that the Antwerp GM plant will assemble Chevy models when the current Astra production will be discontinued and the new model production transfered to Germany and UK.

What Chevy models ? Difficult to know, but you are right, rumors say …

By the way, here is the link toward the official Opel communique (in French), yes the Ampera will have 4 places, 5 doors …

https://secure.opel.be/news/files/pdfs/03_27jan09_opel%20ampera_e-rev_fr.pdf

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harrier1970 Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 12:48 pm

Several people have claimed that the cars are identical… this is incorrect on many levels.

I think that everyone can clearly see the change in the grill

The headlights are inspired by the Opel Flextreme concept

The belt line along the side of the vehicle is a lot higher, sharper and runs uniformly along the entire side of the vehicle.

The sides of the Ampera are sloped inward slightly making less room inside the vehicle but providing an exceptionally appealing look. The Volt has a boxier look, providing more room inside but looking more like a Prius. If you doubt me then take a look at the angle of the wheel well, you can clearly see the difference on the Ampera.

the paint….the Ampera is a mettalic gray with a fairly high gloss while the Volt has an element of electric blue mixed with iron gray for a duller, “matte” like finish. Hopefully we can get a wide variety of paint for either car.

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Unni Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 5:50 pm

Teaser ??

http://www.salon-auto.ch/en/en_images/detail.php?idIndex=491&idContent=1849

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Kyle Says:
January 30th, 2009 at 12:12 am

Another vote to bring the Opel styling here. It’s not the same car – I agree that the A-pillar looks the same, but front quarter panel and front grill are much, much cooler on the Opel. I am still reeling from the fact that GM gave up the awesome prototype Volt styling, which was truly distinctive, to give us a Prius with a different grill. 40 miles should have been a goal, not requirement that killed the distinctiveness. Come on, give us a sexy E-Rev! I loved the Flexstreme as well.

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Jeff Says:
January 31st, 2009 at 5:30 am

No Unni, and no Jean-Charles. Those are both the Insignia.

I am already thinking of removing the front bumper/grill off the Volt and replacing it with the Opel front bumper/diffuser instead, plus replacing the Volt wheels. The Opel looks far superior to the Volt, and from what I can tell, shares all the same panels except for the front bumper if you look closely. What other nasty Chevy badges am I missing? Just the one on the rear glass, right? I’m sure I can pry that off if it’s just glued on. I don’t like the flashy badging, all I want is sleek futuristic styling, not the Transformers symbol squat Chevy grill.

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Opel Ampera to Use Gas/E85 Generator, Not Diesel, and Chevy Volt Will go to Europe Too

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