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On The 2010 Prius Solar Roof

January 22nd, 2009 | Posted in: Climate, Efficiency, Features

To this day people new to the Volt concept continue to draw the conclusion that it should have solar cells on its roof.

Here’s an email I just got today:

THE NEW CAR THE VOLT.WHY DIDN’T YOU PUT SOLAR PANELS ON THE ROOF. IT WOULD CHARGE THE BATTERY WHEN IT SAT OUT SIDE IN THE SUN??????????

The idea that a small panel of solar cells sitting on the roof in sunlight even for hours could do much to actually recharge the battery and justify its expense are unfortunately unrealistic at the present time.

However, the public “green-demand” for it has led GM vice chairman Bob Lutz to infer that a solar roof could be a Volt option. It was supposed to be shown at the Detroit Auto Show, but never made an appearance.

Toyota though, rode the PR wave and introduced a solar roof option for its new 2010 Prius, which is base-priced at $22,000, gets combined 50 mpg fuel efficiency, and went on sale in May.

Here’s how Toyota describes their solar panel option which retails for $3500:

An available sliding glass moonroof is packaged with solar panels, located over the rear seating area, that power a new ventilation system. This solar powered ventilation system uses an electrically powered air circulation fan that does not require engine assist. The system prevents the interior air temperature from rising while the vehicle is parked, making the cool-down time shorter when the driver returns to the vehicle, thus reducing the use of air conditioning.

Check out the following video and see how that Prius solar panel roof actually works out in real word testing:

Posted by: Lyle

138 Responses to “On The 2010 Prius Solar Roof”

Mike Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:21 pm

Big Deal Toyota, all for show.

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Magilla Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:24 pm

While a solar powered ventillation system makes sense, I wouldn’t want the engineers at GM to waste a single minute of their time trying to make it work. Get the car out ASAP. After that, start adding the high-tech goodies that few will be able to afford.

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Xiaowei1 Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:25 pm

As an option its a nice idea. Most early adopters are keen to put on a “green” image. this should be perpetuated though all aspect of the car where possible. people have mocked the Prius for even attempting to do anything eco-friendly, and look were they are now.

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old man Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:27 pm

I voted yes but only because it would be an OPTION and I might add, I would not order it. If you want it and are willing to pay for it then it is fine with me.
post #2, Darn, wish I could change my vote. I agree with you about not wanting engineers wasting time on such an option till the Volt is being purchased by ME!!

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Dave B Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:31 pm

KISS. If a solar roof slows production down, dump it ASAP. Whoops, #2 already said that.

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PJ Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:40 pm

Sure, the solar roof is just a feel good option. It only powers a little fan while the car bakes in the Sun. But, I think most of the people who buy Priuses love that kind of thing even if doesn’t do much. And unfortunately we all (GM included) live in a PR world. So having this little gimmick would at least do no harm to GM’s reputation. I say offer it as an option on the Volt just for the coolness effect (no pun intended).

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Dat Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:44 pm

There’s nothing wrong with having a solar panel roof as an OPTION.

There’s clearly some demand for it from wealthy eco-warriors, and if they’re willing to pay a huge mark up for the extra green cred, more power to them.

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statik Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:51 pm

Solar panels on a car for recharging the battery is a terrible idea. A solar panel to power a small fan motor to keep the car at a temperate condition is not too bad at all.
—–
Incidently, the pricing you are getting of $27,600 for a 2010 Prius is likely from a article (the nikkei) referencing the new cost structure of the old and new Prius slotted in Japan…in yen (then converted to US dollars). I believe you authored a article on it on your sister site. (which I enjoy reading daily also, hehe)

Specifically the source article references that the old Prius is getting cheaper in Japan–down to 2,000,000 yen for the old, so as it does not compete with its newer self, priced at 2,500,000. (Which at the time of printing translated to about $27,600–today it is more like $28,100 actually).

http://allcarselectric.com/2009/01/third-generation-2010-toyota-prius-to-go-on-sale-in-may-for-about-27600/

North American pricing is not actually scheduled to come out for another couple weeks.

International currency balance is always a concern for exporting cars, and that is why Toyota is in such a hurry to manufacture the Prius in North America, so that erratic currency changes do not drastically effect margins.

The yen has had 5 months of incredible strength, and that is the reason for the inflated translation of the MSRP from Japan. 1 USD is worth 89 yen today, whereas for the preceding several years it was worth over 110, about 25% more. Using the historical average of 110 yen/per dollar, 2,500,000 = about $22,500…the current MSRP. I would look for the next gen to be very close to the same base MSRP as the old.

Chart USD/JPY:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=USDJPY=X&t=5y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=

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Jackson Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:54 pm

The solar roof will do no harm to GM’s reputation, and frustratingly, the lack of the option may actually harm it. Perception is 99% of absolutely everything, these days.

It also does no harm to intend a pun, #6!

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N Riley Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:05 pm

I voted no because that is how I feel about it. But, if someone wants to pay the premium price for that option, then let me be the last person to stand in their way.

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-1 CaptJackSparrow Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:06 pm

The Solar PV will only give you at the most 12v @ 10amps. And thats highly optimistic. 12v @ 10amps = 120Watts, probably closer to 5amps. Now the Volt has a 330V battery so in order to use the PV energy for the battery you have to go through a “Buck Boost” step up at a multply factor of 27.5. You then get 330V @ .363636amps = 120watts. Hardly even a trickle charge. Some would say insignificant.

Now I have to add my 2cents. If they were to use the PV energy and design a Peltier Junction on the roof then you would have “Active” cooling from the free energy of the Sun.

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N Riley Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:13 pm

After reading everyone’s comments, I find myself agreeing with Jackson (#9). The damage to GM will be more through perception and after all, in today’s world perception is 90% of the game. So, go ahead and offer it as an option. Even add solar panels as an additional option on the hood. Might as well be in the whole game as on the sidelines.

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JB Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:16 pm

Toyota didn’t put it on their first Prius Model…nor should GM put it on their first Volt. Get out cheap and soon. Then maybe G2 Volt add it as an option.

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Luke Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:17 pm

The Toyota sales people will have to be careful with this option, because it would be easy for the customer to assume the wrong things. They’ll actually have to train their salespeople carefully. But Toyota can probably pull that off. Still, it seems like it might be a liability when the customer comes back to the service department.

Still, I do hate opening the door and getting a face-full of 140 degree air!

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N Riley Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:18 pm

If you live anywhere in the lower half of the U.S. in what is known as the sunbelt, a little fan is not going to do any good on a sunny day where temperatures approach the 100 degree mark during July, August and September. But, again, perception as a green thing is all that is called for. Maybe GM needs the extra degree of greenness this “option” will add to their image. Who am I to say no to the green wave. Move over or get run over. That is what it is all about.

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Brett Pavel Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:19 pm

Let’s see…I am going to guess that the roof surface of the Volt would
hold solar voltaic potential of about 75 watts under optimum exposure
conditions.

If you left the car in the airport in the desert for a couple of months one might expect a decent charge.

End of this crazy discussion.

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N Riley Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:23 pm

If I know Toyota dealers like I think I know them, you will find at least 25% of the new Priuses will have this solar panel option when it comes into the dealership. They are not going to depend on the customers having to decide over paying the extra money for that option. You can bet they will push these solar panel equipped cars over the regular Prius. More options installed means more money for the dealer when the car is sold. Money is what it is all about. Some dealers may very well carry mostly solar panel equipped cars to maximize earnings. Potential Prius owners will eat them up because they will be “greener” versions of the Prius. IMO. Maybe I am wrong.

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Rata Tata Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:29 pm

The 3rd Gen Toyota Prius is the world’s greatest electric car at this time.

Give it up you Volt heads.

I applaud GM for trying so hard to catch the Prius. As you can see the Prius is not standing still. Look for even more exciting Prius options to hit your dealer long before the Volt finds a road.

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Kyle S. Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:35 pm

I agree that using a solar panel on the roof to recharge the battery is impractical and unrealistic. However, because there will be solar panels on the new Prius, GM will be forced to follow suit. If they do not, they will get bashed by GM haters and the uninformed public alike for being “incapable” of producing a good car.Toyota would have a field day. Even though those accusations would be completely off-base, GM just cannot afford the negative image right now. It would be heartbreaking to see such a game-changing automobile go down the drain because of a silly solar panel. Until solar panels become efficient enough for the task of recharging the battery, it may be best for GM to include the solar panel as a profitable option.

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Dave K. =D~ Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:37 pm

Sticker price and availability are key for the Chevy Volt.

Over $40,000 and later than Thanksgiving 2010 WITH a solar roof? Or under $35,000 with availability closer to Labor Day 2010?

A ’solar blanket’ is already being offered as an option. And reports of a 20% trickle recharge in 3 days of bright sun are not overly exciting. GM has also announced that wheels larger than 17″ will be “an option”.

Being that the Volt is a 4 door sedan, to purchase or not will be a decision made between married couples. My wife thinks $26,000 is way high for a Prius. She paid $24,000 for a well optioned 06′ 4 door Accord. She has her all wheel disks, power sun roof, premium sound, adjustable driver seat, mud flaps, trunk liner… ect. Consumer rating of 9.2 on the 06′ Accord.

Manufacture a good solid car and be mindful of the tough decision being made by the real world buyer . Become established with high volume sales. The beauty of the early Mustang models were that they were priced right on par with the competition. Even the lowly K-Car sold well with it’s competitive pricing.

http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/1989%20chrysler%20k-car.jpg

BTW: The local Arco is selling a gallon of premium for $2.29 with corner Mobil at $2.49. Price of crude is up 15% in one week!

=D~

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Keerthi Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:44 pm

I dont think the solar would have efficiency to charge a battery to full. additionally it would be of no use if your office has a closed parking lot.

i would like to have an optional High Speed Charger (`3000 V).

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kent beuchert Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:53 pm

Toyota has discovered how easy it is to fool environmentalists.
Isn’t it amazing that people so ignorant about solar panels can be so certain that they represent some kind of energy solution? You can virtually destroy any green politician by simply asking some pointed questions – they won’t have a clue – like Sen Baucus who claimed during a inauguration of a windfarm that those machines wil reduce our oil depdendency. Someone please tell Baucus the Fool that we don’t use oil to make electricity these days – way too expensive.

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Mark Z Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:14 pm

If a super heated VOLT loses range with A/C on high, then the solar roof will be a much needed option. Keeping the batteries cool in extreme desert heat may require it to be standard equipment.

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Eric C. Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:16 pm

Respectfully, a solar panel is much better utilized on your house than on the car, generate more kWh overall, and give you that much more juice at the plug for your car.

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LeoK Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:29 pm

I voted ‘I don’t care’ because they just need to get the VOLT to market. The solar panel will not add significantly to efficiency. I also doubt that GM could cost justify the development costs to be recouped through an option charge. Thus I say save the capital and get the VOLT to market in the best possible form ahead of schedule if possible. Get the VOLT on the road and then start dreaming of solar panels.

Toyota’s system is all for PR – it sounds like a solar powered fan simply pulls hot air out of the interior when parked.

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Curtis Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:40 pm

I live in Phoenix, please put a solar powered air conditioning/circulating system of some kind.

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Calgaryvolt Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:41 pm

If a solar panel on the roof could be used to cool a vehicle when sitting in the sun that would be great. I would consider it as an option if it did a sufficient enough job keeping the interior at a decent temperature.

I wonder if it could be used for the opposite; keeping a car warm in the winter? That would be real nice for those cold northern winter days (albeit daylight sun is significantly reduced during the winter.)

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 6:54 pm

@ Calgaryvolt 27
“I wonder if it could be used for the opposite; keeping a car warm in the winter?”

That’s the beauty of the Peltier Junction. When you reverse DC polarities the cold side is now outside and the hot side is now inside.

Disappointingly, both the Solar and Peltier are very low in efficiency.

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Brewster Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:01 pm

I think it’s a good idea. Very helpful in extreme climates.

The key is, it should be an OPTION. Let’s keep the base price down!

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Bill Marsh Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:04 pm

Why not. If it’s an option GM can price it to let them actually make some money on it. I have no issues with that.

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CorvetteGuy Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:06 pm

I’m sure we can come up with a ‘wish list’ of additional features that would be great to have in the new VOLT. How about a solar-powered fridge for the center console?! A video karoke machine for the rear seat entertainment center?!

By the time it comes to market it will surely be close to $50,000.00 if they keep adding more stuff. That’s exactly what Chevy did with the Tahoe HYBRIDs – and it took an entire year and $7,000 worth of rebates to get rid of the 2008’s at the dealership where I work. Everybody loved them – just not the price!

What they should be doing is making a nice ‘bare-bones’ model with the lowest possible selling price (that is still profitable) and market them to the masses. Otherwise, it’s just another niche vehicle for the rich and that will NOT save GM’s butt from bankruptcy.

Save the solar-powered roof for the Converj – cuz Cadillac buyers will pay through the nose for just about anything.

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bintoo Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:06 pm

I know it makes no sense but either does having air conditioning in the northern states or Canada, but people still want it. People don’t need to drive a V8 Camero either, but they want to. If people want a solar roof then make in an option. GM is charging $1,100 for the panoramic sunroofs. Make it an option, if people want it they will pay for it. Realistically it should be reserved for the Caddy version of the Volt.

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Paul-R Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:20 pm

I like the fan idea, but with such a low power draw I think it could probably just run off the battery (of course with a fail-safe to avoid draining the battery too much). Most cars already have all the hardware needed, so it’s just software. The solar panel may or may-not make sense, depending on added cost.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:20 pm

@bintoo
“GM is charging $1,100 for the panoramic sunroofs.”

NOOOooooooooo!

No sunroof!
Big No No. Those are engineered eventual leaks. Every car I have ever owned US or Foreign with a sun roof leaked. He11, my 97 Saturn’s sunroof leaks and they said it was because I didn’t open and close it enough times to “Excercise” the seals. WTF?
I shut it and pulled the dang fuse it stays shut.

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statik Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:24 pm

Gosh, I love this thread! Combining solar panels AND the Prius…what could possibly go wrong? Thanks Lyle. (=

I don’t think Toyota is representing this option to do anything but primarily power a interior fan to moderate the temperature. I have see much smaller add-on solar powered window fans that do a pretty good job of balancing interior temperature with outside, so I’m pretty confident it will do the job Toyota has purposed it for.

I think it is a good option for the Prius or the Volt. It is a ‘plus’ sale, and they will probably make more money on this option than on the whole car itself.
======================
======================
#17 N Riley said, “If I know Toyota dealers like I think I know them, you will find at least 25% of the new Priuses will have this solar panel option when it comes into the dealership…More options installed means more money for the dealer when the car is sold.”

–I have a healthy admiration for the Prius (thats no secret), but you bring up a good point Riley…it is a well known fact that a base ‘Prius’ sitting on a Toyota lot is about as easy as finding a R8 on your local Audi’s lot…you can do it, but it is not easy. Either you drive to ‘Wazoo’ to get one, twist their arm (or rip it off) to transfer one to their dealership…or wait 6 months and order it.

Side note: In my quest to drive one, I did find a R8 at my local dealership actually. At $145K +1,500 and dealer prep up here it is quite a ‘deal,’ lol. Wish I could rationale to the wife that we need one)
http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/details.aspx?vlotid=1552659&adid=7260615

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Jeffhre Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:36 pm

Rata Tata 18 – The 3rd Gen Toyota Prius is the world’s greatest electric car at this time.

_________

Thank you for reminding us how far we have left to go based on the few choices available today, and reminding us that freeway capable vehicles that don’t use gas won’t be available until the Volt and other plug ins arrive. Good lookin’ out.

I would like to see fully operational intermittent AC, or a solar panel will ironically be of little consequence to us here in the high desert. Beyond that I didn’t vote because I don’t think it’s an issue that will matter for the Generation I Volt.

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trevor Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:43 pm

I’d rather see solar paint when it’s available.

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vincent Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:47 pm

My Touareg has a solar panel they must have left in it at the dock when it arrived here. It is only enough to keep the battery charged whil transporting from over seas. It has suction cups on each corner to attach to the window. Perhaps a cheaper way…though not real pretty…. for a fast option instead of spending time and money to engineer, source, test and fit a panel to the first gen Volt.
Thats an all show and no go on the Prius…Toyota has the cash to burn for this icing on the cake…but hardly worth while option.

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Mark Bartosik Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:51 pm

The energy payback on traditional solar panels is about 2 years.
This assumes unshaded exposure and south (ish) facing, at a helpful pitch.
With some shading and no south facing pitch this energy pay back could easily get up to 6 years.

Thin film solar is less affected by poor conditions, but takes about twice the surface area for give energy output. Also energy payback is under a year.

Now, lets say that there are only 150 days per year on average across US when air conditioning is of real use in a car, and we get an energy pay back of over 10 years (unless that energy is used for something else).

Worse still, keeping the car cool all day may be a waste of energy, if you leave it in the car park at 9am and return at 6pm. It could be that it could have been cooled down by only using the additional cooling from 2pm. Thus only half the cooling is actually of benefit.

So now the energy pay back for the panel is up to 20 years!!

Trouble is the average (or maybe median) lifetime of a car in the USA is only 17 years.

So on average I think that the only environmental benefit in the US is to maybe make people more interested in solar power – just maybe. Only very marginal in regard of actual energy savings.

Of course someone in Arizona or southern California is more likely to buy this option and will gain more benefit from it.

p.s. I own about 13KW of solar panels, so I’m usually a fan of solar power.

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JEC Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 7:58 pm

I would rather install a windmill on the roof.

Just think how much power you would generate cruising at 85 mph on the interstate!

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JEC Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:04 pm

34 CaptJackSparrow

“No sunroof!
Big No No. Those are engineered eventual leaks. Every car I have ever owned US or Foreign with a sun roof leaked. He11, my 97 Saturn’s sunroof leaks and they said it was because I didn’t open and close it enough times to “Excercise” the seals. WTF?”
—————————————————————————————-
Behold the miracle of DUCT TAPE!

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Tagamet Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:16 pm

I think that the Volt should have solar panels that convert water into HYDROGEN (and o2), which can supplement the hydrogen tanks (for the fuel cells) to help get us between hydrogen fueling stations (after they’re built).

Lyle, with this thread you have proven unequivocally that you have a phenomenal sense of humor (or of the absurd).
Sigh,
Tag
PPP (please, please, please) LJGTVWOTR!! NPNS

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charlie h Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:23 pm

SPV for cooling the car… I’d consider it. I hate going out to a hot car and you might as well use the roof for something useful.

#22, Kent Beucher, “Toyota has discovered how easy it is to fool environmentalists.”

Nobody’s fooled. The system offers low power but still provides a useful way of keeping the car cooled. The overall effect on oil, greenhosue gasses, whatever, is minimal. BUT it’s a cool feature that will make the car more appealing to some and it’s bragging rights for Toyota.

#27, Calgarywolf, “I wonder if it could be used for the opposite; keeping a car warm in the winter?”

They might as well direct any SPV power into the heater. Can’t hurt and it’s probably just a few more lines of software. What you can do for yourself, of course, is to put black seat covers and maybe a black dashcover on in the winter and park it facing the sun. The direct conversion of solar energy to heat is likely more efficient than the SPV into a heating element. Even if the heating feature is provided off the SPV power, darkening the interior will add more solar gain. The interior of my car is dark and snow/ice will melt off the windows and roof even if the air temp is well below freezing (as it has been, mostly, for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks… here in MN).

#31, Corvettguy, “Save the solar-powered roof for the Converj – cuz Cadillac buyers will pay through the nose for just about anything.”

That won’t fly. Toyota just mainstreamed it. If I were running GM, I wouldn’t hold up the Volt to do this feature but it’s another advantage to the Prius and GM’s marketing guys can’t be any too happy about this. I think this makes the feature a must-have for the Converj.

#39, Martin Bartosik, “Worse still, keeping the car cool all day may be a waste of energy,…”

Keeping the interior of the car cool all day will probably help the plastics last longer. And 120W (or however much power) might keep the car comfortable but if you let it get very hot, that modest amount of power is going to take a long time to cool it back down, unless you program the system to dip into the battery and just run the A/C full bore.

Also, the car won’t “know” what time you intend to leave again. If you decide to head out early, it might as well be cool for you. Of course, a remote starter is an option for existing cars. On a PHEV/E-REV/RE-EV/whatever, “remote start” would really just tell the car to turn on full climate control.

#17, N Riley, “If I know Toyota dealers like I think I know them, you will find at least 25% of the new Priuses will have this solar panel option when it comes into the dealership…More options installed means more money for the dealer when the car is sold.”

It depends on the dealer. The Toyota dealer where I bought two of my Toyotas will not stock a Prius at less than what they call Group 2, which included some nice features like a backup camera and whatnot. It’s about $1K over the base. Almost all were Group 2s, relatively few were optiones way up. If there are Group 1s in the depot, and you really want one, they will get one for you, at MSRP. I haven’t bought a Prius – yet – but back in April or May, before gas prices went crazy, there were offering the Group 2s for the price of a Group 1, so there would have been no point to insisting on a Group 1. After prices spiked, it was MSRP all the way but this dealer doesn’t gouge on top of that (both my experience and that of friends). Of course, that means he has a waiting list when the car is hot.

I understand the Southeastern Toyota dealers are really, really bad and it has to do with the distribution network middleman. People who live in FL will fly or drive to places like PA to buy a Toyota, rather than purchase from a Southeastern dealer.

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john1701a Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:33 pm

http://www.nextautos.com/winding-road-issue-42-now-available

“The Insight’s Integrated Motor Assist (IMA) system isn’t a series hybrid like Toyota’s Hybrid Synergy Drive (HSD) – it’s a parallel system. In simple terms, this means both the engine and the electric motor drive the wheels, as opposed to the series system in which the wheels turn only from power provided to it by the electric motor.”

The wild discussion here helps to prove the lack of harmony amongst Volt enthusiasts. There’s so many different messages, your want for the masses (the majority within the next few years) remains a mystery. In the meantime, articles with the quote above with the horribly incorrect information undermines your intent.

Blogging is clearly not enough. What will you actually do while the world around you changes?

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JEC Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:35 pm

#27, Calgarywolf, “I wonder if it could be used for the opposite; keeping a car warm in the winter?”
============================
KISS: Buy a black blanket. Roll it out inside your car before you leave.
This will produce more heat energy than any solar panel in the world!

I actually do this and it works great…(no BS)

Cost: $20.00 (of better yet, go to Goodwill and buy one for $1.00)

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Frank D Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:39 pm

I believe the volt should have the option. Competition will be tight in that class of cars. As great as a solar roof seems, it is only a good option. I still would rather have a car that’s primary drive is an electric motor, rather than the Priuses gas engine.

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BillR Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:24 pm

Personally, I don’t care whether the Volt has this option or not, because it will be more expensive than it is worth. My guess is this might be a $500 to $1000 option, yet it will provide maybe 30 to 50 watts!

Yet, obviously Toyota must believe people will pay for it, otherwise it wouldn’t be an option. Just another prime example of people paying for what they want, whether it makes economic sense or not.

Now we can apply this same reasoning to the Volt. Even IF it does cost $38k, there are those people who will gladly pay the price to drive emissions free and gas free most of the time, and still have a car with great performance.

Note: This is where Johnboy usually comes in with his disclaimers about driving at high speed, engine on at start in cold weather, running with AC, etc., but we know he gets the picture.

Also, the Volt’s EPA sticker should be over 100 mpg equivalent, so that is far superior to 50 mpg.

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Unni Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:42 pm

didn’t they hear about regenerative shock absorbers ? Toyota has that too.

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Chris A Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:43 pm

If EREV’s are in their infancy, then Solar Cells are singe cell organisms. Solar capture hasn’t evolved much since they arrived, and has a long way to go. A solar cooling system is nothing more than a Widget!
If GM feels the need to offer it, then set is as an option for the Converj, and tell us it can be an option on later generation Volts (if it proves useful).

The Volt can be here now, let’s not lose site of the goal. NPNS!

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john1701a Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:19 pm

Ever leave your windows open on a hot day?

That cooling is what the solar option will provide… specifically 80 watts to run the air circulation system with when you are gone, keeping the car comfortable without the security compromise.

Then there’s the A/C button on the FOB. Guess what that does.

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Mark Bartosik Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:21 pm

RE #43 Charlie h

My point about being a waste of energy to keep the car cool all day if you only collect the car from the car park at 6pm is thus….
Let’s say that it takes 0.5KWh to keep the car cool all day.
However, it only takes 0.3KWh to cool the car down fast at the end of the day (by maxing out the AC), there is 0.2KWh of energy not put to good use (i.e. wasted). 0.2KW more energy was used to provide you with an option of a cool interior at any time of the day without pressing a remote start.

You make a good point about the plastics though. Also if remote start was integrated into the car, it could drop the windows or open the sunroof enough to expel the hottest air. Then shut them and crank up the A/C.

Another way this is a waste in most cases (probably except most sunny states) is that it is like having a 6000 sq ft McMansion and then installing 40KW of solar power. When maybe having a 1500 sq ft house with 7KW of solar would be more prudent. Sure I exaggerate to make the point!

It may be a net benefit in sunny states.

Down sides:
* An option that dealers may order to bump up the price and markup.
* Not a net energy benefit unless you are in a sunny state.
* Bumps price.
* Risks giving PV a bad name.
* Just something else to go wrong or cause delay LJGTVWOTR!

Up sides:
* Gets solar power on peoples’ minds.
* Another way to make a little profit.
* Increases demand for solar cells, so more producers enter the market.
* Press friendly, buzz word compliant, and band-wagon ready marketing idea. This most likely being the driving factor!

My Volt will be solar powered anyway, and not by a piddling little panel on the roof. By this PV array: http://www.netzeroenergy.org

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brad Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:24 pm

The price of solar panels is continuing to come down in price. By the time the volt hits the road it will be a very nice add on.

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zhackwyatt Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:27 pm

@51 My GPS was damaged from being in my car in Phoenix. It was out of sight, in a white car, w/ a sun shade, and tinted windows. Not much else I can do to keep it cool. I don’t expect 70 degrees all day, but even getting it from 140 to 100 would be nice.

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DonC Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:27 pm

#39 Mark Bartosiki says “The energy payback on traditional solar panels is about 2 years.”

With a south facing exposure, a roof pitch appropriate for your latitude, healthy state subsidies, and the federal tax credit, probably closer to 20 than to 2. (I’ve got all of the above and that’s my calculation).

#42 Tag – Perhaps silly as a general idea, but if you have young children or are absent minded it’s a great idea. Every year we lose a fair number of children and pets when someone forgets they are in the car.

#44 # john1701a – Aftereffects of the Inaugural?

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Jeffhre Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:46 pm

DonC 54

That’s not economic payback he’s referring to it’s energy payback. If you want to talk about the energy payback (making up for the amount of energy required to manufacture them) 20 years sounds like a good guestimate for car mounted panels.

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Jeffhre Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:50 pm

zhackwyatt & Curtis

My car interior has been damaged and my hand burned on the shifter and all this occurring on days not even close to the hottest days of the year. The desert sun is unforgiving.

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zhackwyatt Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 10:56 pm

@56 Jeffhre Same person. Lol, I guess I changed my name, I posted the Curtis post from work.

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Peter Stevenson Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 11:30 pm

I think a solar panel option would be great! I think if the designers of the VOLT went back and added this while having the current version still on production, they could have the solar panel version come out later.

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Jeffhre Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 12:09 am

zhackwyatt

Thanks, well you’re pretty consistent about everything else.

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Lurtz Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 12:34 am

I voted “Yes” though I think it’s as stupid as “On*Star”. Dumb people want dumb things built into their car — fine, as long as they pay extra, and don’t jack up the base price.

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frayadjacent Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 12:51 am

Needs to be as simple as possible for the first gen. Also considering GM’s state and the economy…

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texas Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 1:04 am

Lyle, Remember that it’s just YOUR opinion that solar panels are only for PR.

I have argued throughout the forums that SOTS (Solar on the Surface) is a great technology. Perhaps not for the actual moving of the vehicle (can only get around 5 miles on a sunny day in Texas) but for having enhanced functionality that even car 1.0 could not give us. Things like cabin ventilation on a hot day, always-on Internet services and remote functions, advanced security, charging at places like the airport and remote locations, etc.

If you are interested in this topic please go to the forum section and hit the search button. Type in SOTS and you will get hundreds of posts and arguments.

I think after you look at the big picture you may also disagree with Lyle about the usefulness of remote solar power – it’s the only way you can get energy into your vehicle at remote locations. Car 2.0 is about to become much more than what we once thought a car could do.

I vote YES for a SOTS option. The plug-in Prius is sure to have one.

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ccombs Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:18 am

Sure it is impractical and the technology is just not there yet, however…

as much as it kills me, GPRS (Good PR, Stupid) often trumps KISS and sounder engineering judgment when it comes to business strategy. I can’t stand the PR baloney, but I voted yes because GM needs to appeal to the Prius crowd. I live among them in Silicon Valley, and unfortunately they would be all over a solar roof so they can look greener than their friends. The Volt needs those gimmicks, since they are easy to add on to the car and pay dividends in public perception. I am hoping for solar-cell paint and other futuristic technologies that may one day make self-recharging cars possible, but right now just put solar cells on your house where they belong and actually make sense! That said, don’t tell any of the Prius people I said that so they go out and buy the solar panel option on the Volt and help make up for the development costs so the rest of us can get Volts … not that I have any chance of paying for one in the near future…

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dread Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:18 am

It’s all about time to market. Do not do anything extra. Get the car out with the basics. Any extra features increase complexity and risk pushing the release date out.

Future versions can add the bells and whistles.

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stuey Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 6:07 am

how about GM offers a home solar recharge station as an option? something that offers at least the 40mile recharge on a moderate to cloudy day. did you know they reckon they can manufacture solar cells for the price of a newspaper with new technology? just my thoughts. my goal is electric car, solar recharge station at home. free travel – whos with me?

stuey – kempsey, australia

(thats right, there is massive interest down under for new technology, were not all bogans and croc hunters!)

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Dave K. =D~ Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 6:22 am

Subliminal news of the day: 01/23/09

headlines: Oil falls to near $42 as US crude demand weakens…

(…was $35 last week, just want it to seem like the price is falling)

SINGAPORE – Oil prices fell to near $42 a barrel in Asia on Friday as a jump in U.S. crude inventories underlined that slumping consumer demand is unlikely to recover anytime soon.

(…there is no slumping demand to recover from, we want to use something other than oil.)

Gasoline inventories rose by 6.5 million barrels, three times more than what was expected by analysts, underscoring the collapse in demand as U.S. drivers cut back on trips.

(…not a collapse, we’re sick of hearing Big Oil price gouging another record quarterly profit.)

Investors have largely brushed off 4.2 million barrels a day of production cuts announced by the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries since September. There are signs OPEC has been implementing the cuts, but demand has evaporated faster.

(…more threats and fear, we love you too.)

=D~

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MarkinWI Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 7:03 am

When considering the solar roof option what none of us has, and what we would all need to make an intelligent choice, is data. It seems to me that the correct questions are, “How much electricity will be saved by NOT having to cool down the car? How many miles of lost electric range by NOT having the solar roof? How much additional cost will be associated with that (assuming X per gallon gas price)?” It would be helpful if one of the techno-gurus here could give a reasonalbe responses to those questions. Otherwise, I think we’re reduced to some pretty predictable opinions.

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Bob Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 8:15 am

If you’re trying to convince the government and the public that you’re finally getting ahead of the Japanese in something (electric drive) it would only hurt your cause to not have something as crowd-pleasing as solar panels on the roof when your main Japanese competitor does. I think GM should make the solar roof option available, price it way up and only put it on show cars and the cars of people so determined to have that solar roof they’re willing to pay out the nose for it. PR win, better profit margin on a few cars, what’s not to like?

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akojim Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 8:33 am

Instead of paying for a solar roof that would charge the batteries at night when parked under a street light, I would rather pay for a hood ornament that would enable the car to fly. Of course that is only my desire which I understand runs contrary to the solar roof crowd.

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Dave K. =D~ Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 8:34 am

hi Bob #68,

The Volt should be in showrooms now. Each added bell and whistle and additional month of R&D time (cost) is a negative. The Converj and (big roofed) Orlando will make fine solar assisted vehicles.

1> The Volt must sticker price low. $36,000 less $7500 = $28,500
2> The Volt must be released before 09/01/10.

Simple and reliable systems will win. High ratings will solidify appeal.

=D~

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GXT Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 8:44 am

After what GM has done to the industry with the Volt, it is good to see GM being the one forced to consider building something that really makes no sense.

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john1701a Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 8:46 am

When considering the solar roof option what none of us has, and what we would all need to make an intelligent choice, is data.
__________________________________

Actually, I have. Now it’s just a matter of waiting for delivery. My 8.5 years of data includes comparisons between the traditional A/C and the electric A/C in the two prior Prius models combined with the opposite extreme from heating improvements.

Energy is most definitely saved by not having to work as hard to make the car interior comfortable. Quantifying that is a big problem though.

Volt enthusiasts face quite a challenge. It’s difficult enough showing efficiency gains without a plug. There’s simply too many variables at play to easily explain your long-term observations. Fortunately, the pattern is pretty obvious when your butt is planted in the driver’s seat.

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wburbage Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 9:29 am

I’m all for it but if it adds another day to the roll-out then it should be scrapped.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 9:50 am

A solar panel option sounds expensive. How about a large decal that looks like a solar panel?

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Dr.Science #11 on the list Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:05 am

The roof area is way to small for any solar collector to be serious. Its just a gimmic. With the current watt densities of solar panels it would take 1000 sq. feet of collector to be of any real use.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:14 am

The Solar Roof won’t do a whole lot but make extra money for Toyota while making the customer feel good about himself/herself.

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N Riley Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:21 am

#35 Statik

The pictures with the link you provided for the Audi R8 shows a real sporty looking car. In my mind’s eye I never visualized you as being that “sporty”. Sorry, but I will have to re-classify you in my thinking.

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N Riley Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:29 am

#18 Rata Tata

No one is really disputing the fact that the Prius is a great car. Some of us who love the idea of the Volt are either owners of a Prius or have seriously considered owning one. Of course there are plenty of us on this site who would never own a Prius. But, it is a good car. It and the Volt are different kinds of cars trying to accomplish some of the same things. The Volt just goes further towards that aim by eliminating more petroleum than the current Prius. A future Prius may very well emulate the Volt more. It is highly unlikely the Volt will ever emulate the current Prius.

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k-dawg Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:34 am

The Solar Panel debate seems very similiar to the 40 mile range debate. If 80% of the public drives 40 miles or less, what percentage would actually take advantage of a solar panel roof? I’m just going to throw out a SWAG of 5~10%. Basically you need to live in a sunny environment, it has to be hot enough you actually need it (im guessing above 70 degrees outside), you have to be parked in a sunny spot, you have to have a clean roof (no dirt, bird sh!t). The list could be continued.. but I see very few people actually getting use out of this. At what point do you make it an option??? I dont know, but it sure seems like a lot of work, warranty, stocking parts, training, etc.. for such a small group of people.

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DonC Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:48 am

#55 Jeffhre says “That’s not economic payback he’s referring to it’s energy payback.”

Thanks. I missed that.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:56 am

The roof solar panel is a statement, much like the car you drive is a statement. Of those people disparaging roof solar panels, I wonder what their cars display. Colored paint? Excessive size or horsepower? Hubcaps?

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DonC Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 10:58 am

#72 john1701a says “Energy is most definitely saved by not having to work as hard to make the car interior comfortable. Quantifying that is a big problem though.”

I wouldn’t think an estimate would be that hard. GM said it took about 1000 watts to initially cool an EV-1. We can assume the Volt would take more given the larger interior space but less given some increased efficiencies in the AC. So let’s stay with 1000 watts.

If you could use the solar panel to avoid that you’d add 5 miles to the range. That sounds good but you’d only be saving about $.15, which isn’t much. If you used that five miles to not drive using the ICE, and gas was at $4/gallon, you’d save $.40.

Hard to make the case for solar panels on a pure dollar basis. I’m heading off to check out the posts cited by Texas. Maybe my mind will be changed …

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Mitch Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:02 am

#23 Mark Z

“If a super heated VOLT loses range with A/C on high, then the solar roof will be a much needed option. Keeping the batteries cool in extreme desert heat may require it to be standard equipment”

for the first part, roll the windows down, leave the door open a minute..less need for A/C, takes about 1 minute to equalize temps. As far as keeping batteries cool, there is likely not enough power from such a small panel..lets face it, it is simply powering a small fan inthe Prius.

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DonC Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:05 am

#77 N. Riley says “The pictures with the link you provided for the Audi R8 shows a real sporty looking car. In my mind’s eye I never visualized you as being that “sporty””

He LOVED the Volt concept. The Audi has the same gangsta look to it …

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Mitch Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:09 am

#83 ADDENDUM (me)

I would wonder what kind of damages could be sustained from car washes on the roof top solar?

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N Riley Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:17 am

A solar panel may be impractical, but if GM does not offer it they will be considered as “being behind times” as compared to future forward thinking Toyota. In reality the opposite is true. Except for the Prius, Toyota is old and stodgy in its production in many ways. They do not really innovate, they just copy and improve. Plus they sell a wide range of vehicles that meet customers needs better than what GM offers. There are many things to like about Toyota, but I do not admire their design skills or their “concept” vehicles as much as I do GM’s efforts. GM does seem to present wonderful design concepts, but falls short when putting those concepts into production. In the future I hope GM will present more realistic concepts (like the Converj concept) that are closer to what will actually be produced.

But, yes, GM offer the solar panels and other innovative options that a potential owner may want as long as they pay for it.

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N Riley Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:22 am

Having a solar panel option would be a statement by people who wanted to make that statement. That should mean they are willing to pay for that statement. I can understand the desire to have a cooler car when you get into it in the hot summer time or a warmer car in the winter months. If a solar panel could accomplish that without taxing the main battery, great. I am certainly not opposed to GM making it available and letting the market decide its value. Maybe later, on version 4 or so of the Volt, solar panels may very well be standard. The cost could be driven down by then or their efficiency driven up to make them more desirable to more people.

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Rick Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:27 am

#1. Grow up! The mentality that if it ain’t a GM-Volt, it’s crap is just juvenile. The more manufacturers that embrace this technology – via plugin or hybrid, the better of we all are.

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Red HHR Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:33 am

How about a sunroof? The R8 has a sunroof. I am sure GM knows how to make a sunroof, DIY solar cooling, open the sunroof!

I do not mind if they add a solar panel, as long as it would not slow down production.

I like the idea of some solar cells on the hood, a smaller group as a styling accent. Like the old H.O. hoods from the muscle car era. They would, ah… keep the clock going so it does not stop. Yup that’s it.

Red HHR (cheap, no factory options)

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Ryan P. Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:56 am

I voted NO. Why? Because the solar cooldown thingy described is ALREADY AVAILABLE in aftermarket catalogs. You roll the window up to hold it in place. What, maybe $39.95?

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noel park Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 12:21 pm

#3 Xiaowei1:

I agree. Well said.

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john1701a Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 12:43 pm

Because the solar cooldown thingy described is ALREADY AVAILABLE in aftermarket catalogs. You roll the window up to hold it in place.

No, that only blows outside air while you are parked.
________________________________

Think about the gain from using the sun to blow A/C through the cabin vents while you drive.

Also, think about a solar array large enough to power the blower even while you are parked in the shade. Remember how the sun moves and conditions change during the day.

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Jim in PA Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 1:24 pm

Sorry Toyota, I beat you to the punch. I have recently patented a superior competing technology for cooling a parked car – it’s called opening the window a crack. I just hope the Chinese don’t reverse engineer it before I get it to market.

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noel park Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 1:24 pm

Edit to #91:

Although, if the solar panel is packaged with a sun/moonroof, then the whole thing is a non-starter for me. We had a Nissan Maxima years ago with a sunroof. It never leaked like poor CaptJack’s did, but we never used it. The fresh air was just not worth the sun glare and wind blast. Plus, it just adds weight and complication.

I swore then, no more sunroofs. If we have to take the sunroof to get the solar panel, forget it. So now I’m coming to agree with all of you who say KISS, and worry about goodies like sun/moon/solar roofs later. Toyota never did it until Gen 3. Plug in ought to be enough green cred to start with.

KISS LJGTVWOTR!! NPNS! DBNGCMEMEV

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Jim in PA Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 1:57 pm

Dear Toyota,

I would like to suggest an equally practical energy efficiency option as a companion to your solar roof. Install a wrap-around rain gutter that catches rainwater, directing it to a micro-turbine in the downspout. I’m sure you can work out the aesthetics.

Sincerely,
Jim

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Mitch Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:24 pm

#92 John 1701a says

“Think about the gain from using the sun to blow A/C through the cabin vents while you drive.

Also, think about a solar array large enough to power the blower even while you are parked in the shade. Remember how the sun moves and conditions change during the day.”

This is NOT how it works. It is not powering the blower, it powers a ventilation fan

From the article “This solar powered ventilation system uses an electrically powered air circulation fan that does not require engine assist. The system prevents the interior air temperature from rising while the vehicle is parked, making the cool-down time shorter when the driver returns to the vehicle, thus reducing the use of air conditioning.”

It is essentially an exhaust fan. Most auto A/C systems recirc interior air, continuously cooling progressively cooler air. If it ran the A/C system fan, it would simply recirc constantly heated, progressively hotter interior air.

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eightzero Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:26 pm

An interesting poll. I’d be much more interested in data on polls like this:

When will the 100,000th electic car (one with a plug) be delivered to a US consumer: a) 2010 b) 2011 c) 2012 d) 2013 e) 2014 f) 2015 or after.

If available *right now* for $30k or less, would you buy a new car with 4 seats, a plug, and a 40 mile electric only range? a) yes b) no.

I know my answer to each. And of course, polls like this will get different responses on a web site like gm-volt as opposed to something like cnn.com.

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Dave G Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:37 pm

Since it doesn’t power the car, the solar roof option ends up being a luxury comfort feature, like leather seats or a premium audio system.

Also, remember that it takes gobs of energy to manufacture silicon solar cells. For example, the energy break even point on rooftop solar panels is around 2 years. But since the car solar roof only spins a fan for comfort, there is no energy break even.

So the solar roof option ends up being a particularly energy-wasting luxury comfort feature. It’s ironic that it has any green appeal at all. People will figure it out sooner or later…

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Dave G Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:41 pm

#97 eightzero,

d) 2013

a) yes

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Mitch Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 2:56 pm

interesting article

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/SuperModels/why-we-cant-let-sputtering-gm-die.aspx?page=2

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john1701a Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 3:46 pm

This is NOT how it works. It is not powering the blower, it powers a ventilation fan
_______________________________________________

The solar is for pushing air through the cabin without relying on power from the vehicle.

Some people refer to the “ventilation fan” as the “blower”. Reciruculation & Condensing are seperate, run by different devices.

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Johann Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 9:08 pm

My home is green powered so I don’t care about expensive solar on the car…I’d rather it be on my roof.

If it was a FULLY electric car then yes, solar roof on the car is a good option.

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MarkinWI Says:
January 23rd, 2009 at 11:38 pm

Mitch @ 100: Oh noes! Another idea for how government can support Detroit and make our lives better! I enjoyed it. Would love to see it happen.

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N Riley Says:
January 24th, 2009 at 1:09 am

Solar roof panels are a good option for those who want to pay for them. IMO.

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Tim Says:
January 24th, 2009 at 1:58 am

OMG…. Ive owned a prius since 01, it will be nice to buy American again. I already have a down payment on this car. I’m praying/hoping that you offer PV roof. I also would like to PV panels on the back side of the car or hood. It will add to the volt’s capability as it may not even need to be plugged into an outlet because it will have the abililty to recharge in an area that gets 8-12hrs of sunlight. Like where I work. Why can’t it be used to recharge the main battery. I’m willing to pay for it.This is American ingenuity at it’s best.

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Hous Volt Pharteen Says:
January 24th, 2009 at 3:24 am

I agree with # 2. Just give me the Volt.

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GmsAJoke Says:
January 24th, 2009 at 4:28 am

I agree with # 2. Would be nice for vent, but beyond that…… All the fricking green turds need to go down to radio shack and learn how to make a solar powered ANY..FRICKING..THING. They are currently way to expensive for a car and you would need a boat load from Chindia to do anything to a battery system that large.

GM must have had 100 meetings to figure out what a 6 year old could have told them.

The Prius is a joke and has been from day one. The only good that system is for is showing that people are willing to buy electric if the range anxiety is removed.

Until the Aliens come down and show us how to create perpetual motion the Volt system is only smart play. After market will come up with some way to install more batteries and give the 100+ all electric range. Combined with the onboard generator that should take care of the needs of all but few drivers.

So go ahead…waste your money on a Prius with a waste of resources solar sunroof (with what? 7 whole miles electric at under 35mph). I’ll wait for the Volt.

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Tim Says:
January 24th, 2009 at 6:22 am

GMAC is second largest auto manufactuer in the world now because they chose to put there money into the gas guzzling hogs that get 15-25 mi/gal- which means most people have to fill up their cars every week. Say what you want about the Prius but no other car gets 50+ miles a gal at least that is American. How many countries do you know that can export $600mil a year of it’s wealth buying what is an exposable resource ( fuel) and still remain economicallly viable. I refuse!!!! to send my hard earned cash over seas to a population to buy fuel from and who will then use that money for death/destruction of our citizens. I personally can’t wait for this car to come out so that I can buy it (Volt). If I can get 1% better gas mileage with solar panels on my car. Then that is one more American that has a job, and 1% less of a footprint and 1% less of my adding to the largest transfer of wealth in the worlds history. My Prius can go 3 1/2 weeks without filling up gas from another nation which means I have more money in my families pocket. This year I bought PV panels and thermal panels for my home. May be it will take me 30 years to recoup my investment, may be the Volt with solar panels will only give miniscule return on my investment. But the technology has to start somewhere as I “Green Turd” will bethere to support the American auto maker in it’s endeavor to return to it’s previous supremacy. You will be buying your fuel from country that only wishes your demise.

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charlie h Says:
January 24th, 2009 at 10:30 am

#107, GMsAJoke, “The Prius is a joke and has been from day one.”

Toyota has sold a million of them. Some joke.

This spring, it’s a luxury feature. Toyota’s little car is mature enough and Toyota is doing well enough that they can put luxury do-dads of dubious value into their vehicle as options. Some people (me – depends on price) will want the convenience of keeping the car cool all day. Some won’t.

Some day, all cars will likely have something along these lines, at least as an inexpensive option, more and more will offer it standard.

I used to consider backup cameras a luxury feature. When does a backup camera cease to be a luxury feature? The local dealer doesn’t stock anything but Group 2s, which all have a backup camera. The car is still very reaonably priced (MSRP in the mid $22s). I’d say this makes a backup cameras a mainstream feature.

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Fahrvergnugen Fanboy Says:
January 24th, 2009 at 1:53 pm

Also totally agreeing with #2.

But how about this, for any car: a setting to crack the windows open an inch, but automatically to close them when full sunlight stops. That would save a few dashes to the parking lot in thunderstorms!

Maybe also automatically close the windows if a motion detector detects motion near the car. If the perp continues to try to break in, have the car turn into a robot and deal with him appropriately.

Extra-cost option to do the same with daughter’s boyfriend.

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Mike D Says:
January 24th, 2009 at 2:12 pm

I voted no.

If it’s profitable, and not a PR stunt that loses money, then yes, let it be an option.

In the Prius, doesn’t the solar roof ONLY assist in helping the AC? Why bother in the Volt if it doesn’t even charge the battery? Unless it actually helps the MILEAGE as a result of helping the AC system, then it’s not worth it.

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Too Smart Says:
January 24th, 2009 at 11:08 pm

Due to perceptions begin created by Toyota the solar panel thing is a necessary option eventually, but no time should be lost getting the Volt in showrooms.

Luke Says:
The Toyota sales people will have to be careful with
this option, because it would be easy for the customer
to assume the wrong things.

Any customer that wants to believe the solar panels are major efficiency contributors will be allowed and encouraged to think precisely that. The customer is right even if the customer is a blithering idiot and believes a square meter (or whatever) of solar panel will lower sea levels.

Anyhow, the idea of circulating interior air is great.

N Riley Says:
If you live anywhere in the lower half of the U.S. in what is
known as the sunbelt, a little fan is not going to do any
good on a sunny day where temperatures approach the
100 degree mark during July

Riley there is doing a good job reinforcing stereotypes about intelligence and the Southern US. Even a small fan is capable of exchanging most of the interior are in a passenger car in only a couple minutes. When sealed car interior temperatures can reach 150+ deg. Circulating that air out and replacing it with 100 deg air is a BIG improvement. Hell, there will be some dog/cat/infant that will not be killed due to that feature.

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GmsAJoke Says:
January 25th, 2009 at 2:32 am

Green Turds..
Toyota sold a million Prius to people that don’t know how to think. There is no way the prius gets the mpg that people claim, they are just trying to justify their purchase. A honda civic gets the same as a Prius for less up front and even less when you have to replace those batteries. Your a sucker, a sheeple, the perfect schlep that advertisers love. Just admit it and move on. But thanks for wasting your money and forcing GMs hand to come up with a better system.

And before you say I am a American made nut job trying to beat down Toyota… since the 80’s I have only bought Toyota’s in my family because of GM’s designed to break years.

What 7 miles all electric at under 35 mph. Waste of my fricking time and money. Replacement batteries alone will cost you more than 1000x the gas you think you saved and only a sucker would by a used Prius for more than what it would cost to have the batteries replaced.

Solar sunroof…please. Put a solar sunroof on every Prius made and you still won’t save a single barrel of oil. The only way solar panels are going to save oil is to put them on the roof of your house and use that energy to recharge your Volt type system, or an electric only car.

As for thinking no oil use is only going to hurt foreigners, you have know idea how much it is also going to hurt the US. Everything from oil workers here and abroad plus taxes on gas, refiners, land leases, royalties, suppliers, gas station owners and employees…everything. So don’t get your panties in a bunch about sticking it to the mid east. We are going to have to suffer the pain too.

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john1701a Says:
January 25th, 2009 at 2:43 am

There is no way the prius gets the mpg that people claim
_______________________________

EPA combined estimate is 46 MPG

My actual average as of 111,406 miles of driving is 47.8 MPG

2010 efficiency will be higher.

As an additional benefit, the smog-related emissions are lower too.

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Ed K. Says:
January 25th, 2009 at 5:48 pm

Interesting debate between the limited utility of this solar panel vs public perception of lack of vision. I agree with both sides. However I think GM should keep on schedule with current design and provide an explanation on the truth behind the solar panel. Any serious buyer will be able to understand the tradeoffs. Someone who would not buy the Volt because of the lack of the solar panel roof mount is not a serious buyer anyway.

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kaptkirk Says:
January 25th, 2009 at 7:21 pm

GM is way behind Toyota and Honda, so not having the Solar Roof as an option will only put them further behind! If it’s not ready for the first year, ok, but at least have it available at some point in the first gen! It shouldn’t be too hard to develop, solar panels have been around for a long time. Toyota’s solar powered fan probably also keeps the panel cool for longevity (just a guess).

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Dave G Says:
January 25th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

#116 kaptkirk Says: “GM is way behind Toyota and Honda, so not having the Solar Roof as an option will only put them further behind!”
————————————————————————————-
GM is way behind Toyota and Honda in reliability:
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzenu6hr/ebay_pictures/tt.jpg

GM is also way behind Toyota on full hybrids like the Prius.

But when it comes to a practical mass-production EV, it appears GM is way ahead with the Volt.

As for the solar roof, I consider this an energy wasting luxury option. The price for this option will be $3000 or more. It takes huge amounts of energy to produce solar cells, and since these cells don’t power the car, it ends up being a big waste of energy. GM has said they may provide this as an option on the Volt, but I hope they don’t. We should be thinking of saving energy, not wasting it.

(Quote)
charlie h Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 12:02 am

#113, GMsAJoke, “Toyota sold a million Prius to people that don’t know how to think. There is no way the prius gets the mpg that people claim, they are just trying to justify their purchase. A honda civic gets the same as a Prius for less up front ”

There’s places you can look that sort of thing up. Do your research first, then you can post accurate information.

If that matters to you.

#117, Dave G, “it appears GM is way ahead with the Volt.”

Oh? Have they shipped any Volts? No? Then it’s hard to see how they’re “ahead,” except in press releases. How much revenue does a press release bring in? More than a Prius?

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jefro Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 12:43 am

Solar Panels are NOT green. They require much more energy than they could ever produce. They are not a green solution. There is no and has yet to be produced a panel that can run a solar panel plant. They are a long way away from a real solution.

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Dave G Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 7:39 am

#118 charlie h Says: “Have they shipped any Volts?”
————————————————————————————–
Has Toyota shipped any plug-ins?

This site has to do with following the developments of plug-in cars that will be available in the future. In the area of plug-ins and EVs, it appears to me that GM is way ahead.

(Quote)
john1701a Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 7:49 am

Has Toyota shipped any plug-ins?
______________________________

Yes.

The universities Berkeley & Irvine in California both have been driving the real mccoy for over a year now, collecting lots of real-world data for Toyota.

(Quote)
Dave G Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 7:56 am

#119 jefro Says: “Solar Panels are NOT green. They require much more energy than they could ever produce.”
————————————————————————————–
Home and business roof-top solar panels have an energy break-even time of around 2 years. In other words, after 2 years, they have produced more energy than it took to manufacture them.

But that this requires a good installation with the panels:
• angled up around 30°
• facing south
• free of any trees or other shade

Note that car-top solar panels don’t have these characteristics, so their energy break-even time would be much longer, perhaps 5 years. But that assumes the car-top solar panels charge the battery, which they don’t. Car-top solar panels just spin a fan to keep the cabin cool in the summer. So car-top solar panels are just a big waste of energy.

Right now, it appears the best way to make energy from sunlight is solar-thermal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEGS
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_tower

(Quote)
Dave G Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 8:00 am

#121 john1701a

I can’t go to a Toyota dealer and buy a plug-in.

If you count third-party modifications, lot’s of companies have solutions:
http://www.hipadrive.com/

(Quote)
john1701a Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 8:26 am

I can’t go to a Toyota dealer and buy a plug-in.
________________________________

The question was asked if Toyota shipped any plug-ins. The answer is yes.

The response to that comment above is yes too. Hymotion upgrades are performed at Toyota dealers. In fact, that is done at the dealer I purchased my Classic Prius from.

(Quote)
Dave G Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 9:44 am

#124 john170a,

1) How much does it cost (car + upgrade)?
2) Are there different upgrades? If so, what do they cost?
3) What is the electric range?
4) Who offers the warranty – Toyota, Hymotion, or both?
5) How long is the warranty?
6) How long does it take to get one?

(Quote)
john1701a Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 10:04 am

3) What is the electric range?
________________________

Asking EREV criteria about a FULL hybrid is not constructive.

It always has been and still is a MPG boost, not a range.

(Quote)
Dave G Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 10:19 am

#126 john170a,

1) How much does it cost (car + upgrade)?
2) Are there different upgrades? If so, what do they cost?
3) What is the range of the MPG boost?
4) Who offers the warranty – Toyota, Hymotion, or both?
5) How long is the warranty?
6) How long does it take to get one?

(Quote)
charlie h Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 12:17 pm

#120, Dave G, “Has Toyota shipped any plug-ins?”

Does it matter?

If neither company has left the starting line, neither is ahead. GM has no Volts on the road in consumer hands.

Toyota has announced a program of cars for sale this year with significant AER and the ability to operate fully electrically through that AER. This is functionally equivalent to a Volt. I noticed John1701a’s responses and I’m not sure that the current Toyota program would qualify as “in production” or “for sale.”

Either way, GM, having no Volts on the road, is NOT in the lead. You don’t declare which horse is “ahead” until after the gates open. And there’s a long backstretch on this course, too.

#122, Dave G, “Car-top solar panels just spin a fan to keep the cabin cool in the summer. So car-top solar panels are just a big waste of energy.”

So are all the other little gizmos and features that go into a car. A car NEEDS motivational power, braking, steering, occupant protection, basic instrumentation. Everything else is gravy. Radio? Unnecessary. A/C? Unnecessary. Interior lights? Unnecessary. Carpeting? Unnecessary. Soundproofing? Unnecessary.

Yet, most cars have all these things and more. People who want their car to be cool when they return to it on a hot day (I noted before, this will probably extend the life of the materials in the cabin and that has significant value – the car takes energy to build) will want this.

What they are willing to pay and what Toyota will charge remains to be seen and that will determine whether or not this option is a commercial success.

(Quote)
john1701a Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 12:46 pm

3) What is the range of the MPG boost?
_____________________________

What part of BOOST don’t you understand?

The appropriate measure is battery CAPACITY.

RANGE is not a relevant comparison.

(Quote)
john1701a Says:
January 26th, 2009 at 12:59 pm

In other words, the real-world average (taking all plug-in scenarios into account) works out to a 20 to 25 MPG improvement.

Focus is on the outcome, not when the motor contributes power… like this topic of when the solar contributes.

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MeMyselfAndI Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 10:46 am

I would gladly buy a solar panel option that kept the car cooler. This is a great option for folks like me that live in the southwest. We average days of sunshine in the high 300’s days per year and cars can be downright hot after sitting in the sun 9 months (or more) out of the year. Too bad the Volt has a pathetic electric range. I will be holding out for the second version or a completely different vehicle with at least 100 miles electric range.

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john getz Says:
January 28th, 2009 at 7:53 pm

lets concentrate on just getting the car out GM … dont worry about the solar panels yet…. one step at a time… sometimes I think I could run GM

(Quote)
David Says:
March 5th, 2009 at 2:10 am

I think it’;s a good idea: it cuts down on A/C strain which will in turn reduce fuel consumption, makes the car more comfortable, and prevents the plastics from the interior from being heated too much thus reducing VOC release.

(Quote)
Tasha Says:
June 15th, 2009 at 4:46 pm

I live in FL, and I can say that if I could fit the cost into my financing I would DEFINITELY buy the solar roof. With temperatures ranging from 60-110 Fahrenheit that means the inside of my car is 90-150 Fahrenheit and rising. Anyone with leather seats would appreciate not having a hot seat when wearing shorts too!

(Quote)
Larry McFall Says:
June 15th, 2009 at 5:31 pm

Solar Panel Roofs is a great idea to be employed in the VOLTEC plan! Since I bought my first Solar Panels for the recharge of batteries for my Arizona Ranch in 1995, the panels are now so much more efficent. In comparison, a one square inch of panel now generates a hundred times more energy than the 1990 technology.

The notion of your VOLT being parked at work on a nice sunny day has the potential of charging up todays batteries by the time you go home for the day. This nets savings in grid power and provides lattitude that adds to the broad usage of the vehicle.

This is exactly the kind of research technology that GM has to pursue to keep the VOLTEC viable and attractive for the future of the business.

I would like to know how many amps the present produced roof design provides. Very interesting concept that must be maintained as a primary addition.

(Quote)
Larry McFall Says:
June 15th, 2009 at 5:45 pm

After reading many VOLT Fan comments, I believe many are not sure as to the viability of Solar Panel Charging technology. Others appear to feel that adding the Solar Roof concept would indeed raise cost of the vehicle. I believe that the fans would just like to see the VOLT as we have seen it advertised, get on the road. I am real excited to see this happen also.

In consideration of the additional Solar Roof technology, it is not Rocket Science which is needing a lot of prior research for it is out there, Now! It is not real costly as many would presume. I would hope that GM would adopt the Solar Roof concept and not attempt to act like this is going to be a major cost.

GM has a lot a faithful VOLT fans and any new ideas that GM wants to adopt, needs to be in the light of add ons or, to actual better the vehicles overall performance posture.

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Kurt Says:
June 21st, 2009 at 9:20 pm

It was a great idea when Audi did it 8 years ago on my 2001 allroad.

(Quote)
Neil Says:
July 13th, 2009 at 10:20 pm

Just park it under a tree and crack a window or two. End of story.

(Quote)

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