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GM Volt Battery Plant to Cost $30 Million, Will Open in 2010, and Will be Converted From Existing Facility

January 21st, 2009 | Posted in: Battery, Production

At the Detroit Auto Show GM finally announced that they awarded the Chevy Volt lithium-ion battery contract to LG Chem of Korea. They also shocked us with the revelation that GM itself would assume the role of pack-maker.

In so doing, they would have to build a free-standing advanced automotive battery pack plant, the first in the United States. The plant is intended to be in southeast Michigan.

GM’s Executive Director of Global Vehicle Engineering Hybrids, Electric Vehicles and Batteries, Robert Kruse told me that the plant will not be a new building, nor will it piggyback the Hamtramck Volt assembly plant as the CEO of Compact Power Inc. had previously suggested.

Instead, Kruse said there are “plenty of facilities in southeastern Michigan that we can make into battery pack facilities. I do not envision that this will be a new plant.”

Also, Chevrolet manager Ed Peper said building the plant will require an investment from GM of $30 million and that it is scheduled to open in 2010.

Peper also confirmed the mainstream goal of the Volt saying “We chose Chevy because we can’t be niche with the Volt. We have to make it a mass-production vehicle.”

Source (Automotive News) subscription required

Posted by: Lyle

119 Responses to “GM Volt Battery Plant to Cost $30 Million, Will Open in 2010, and Will be Converted From Existing Facility”

Jozef Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 7:19 am

That’s awesome! They need to get things rolling so the launch date doesn’t get pushed back!

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beachliving Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 7:27 am

I don’t know if it’s going to open in 2010, that is cutting it pretty close. I wish they would have said production to start at a date rather then, opening in 2010. Anyways the updates are always positive news..

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Eric C. Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 7:47 am

I hope at some point we’ll also be able to manufacture the actual cells in the US. We need to heavily invest in our Manufacturing R&D here so we can be competitive.

With gas prices likely to increase back up to $4+ per gallon after this global recession, I’d imagine we can remain fairly competitive with overseas manufacturing when you factor in their shipping costs.

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J Man Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:05 am

I wonder if there are going to use a building GM owns or find a random warehouse they can lease from someone?

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Right Lane Cruiser Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:06 am

The overall cost of the vehicle has to come down if they want to avoid turning the Volt into a “niche” vehicle — regardless of the nameplate.

Pack manufacturing in the US is a huge step, and one that takes everything but the chemistry out of the equation. This means that should a US based cell manufacturer begin to make suitable product available, there will be less delay before its inclusion into GM vehicles because that company won’t have to have any expertise in pack creation at all. Assuming GM gets into the business of providing packs for other manufacturers as well, there is a very good chance that the transition to full production in the US could be a lot less painful and costly than otherwise.

I think this is a smart move on GM’s part.

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statik Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:20 am

I guess assembly in the US by GM is better than nothing at all. It is still encouraging to see another announcement of progess, although tempered once again today by Fritz Henderson putting a damper on the financal situation

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/GM-official-says-cash-could-apf-14110938.html

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GXT Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:21 am

“We chose Chevy because we can’t be niche with the Volt. We have to make it a mass-production vehicle.”

Why does GM keep saying silly things like this? As Right Lane Cruiser @5 said, it is the cost, not the nameplate that makes it niche. I would also add the horrible value of the product makes it niche.

Does GM want us to believe that the CTS would sell more than the Impala if they just put a chevy badge on it?

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statik Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:26 am

I’m not sure if it will be clear to everyone reading this, so I’ll just mention it again. GM is just assembling the packs, LG Chem is doing all the manufacturing and producing of cells.
—

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-BusinessofGreen/idUSTRE50J6FS20090120

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Lunoir Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:32 am

They recycle an empty plant + do imports until the plant is complete… Hmm… sounds like trying to have things done on time to me.

NPNS!

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BillR Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:45 am

Just for fun, look at this cutaway view of the Volt’s battery pack. It looks to be much more sophisticated than a group of 12V automotive batteries just cabled together. Note all the printed circuit boards included with the cells.

http://us.tnpv.net/2009/GMC200901/GMC2009011084220_PV.jpg

I can see why GM may want to maintain production/control of this phase of the battery manufacturing. Also, they may be looking to automate this process, just like automotive batteries that only require 4 man-minutes of direct labor content to manufacture.

Utilizing an existing building should not only save money, but also save time.

With other Voltec driven vehicles coming down the pike, this may prove to be a busy facility.

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RB Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:51 am

#8 statik says “I’m not sure if it will be clear to everyone reading this, so I’ll just mention it again. GM is just assembling the packs, LG Chem is doing all the manufacturing and producing of cells”
————————————————————————

Assembling the cells into packs gives GM control of how many cells are in the pack, how they are connected, any cooling and control systems included in the pack itself, and perhaps most importantly, the physical size of the pack, which will determine where it can fit into the vehicle.

I can imagine that all of these parameters will change from one year’s model to the next, and certainly from Volt to Converj and beyond, so it will be highly advantageous to GM to control exactly how assembly is done.

The cells themselves, while critical, seem to be able to be treated as interchangeable units, and in that limited sense are more of a commodity item.

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Shawn Marshall Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:53 am

Lyle

Is it time to fess up? How was your drive?

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Cautious Fan Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 9:17 am

More info on the Chrysler Fiat deal.

http://www.economist.com/business/displayStory.cfm?story_id=12965800&
source=features_box1

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nuclearboy Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 9:23 am

I agree with the concept fo the cells being a commodity item (a very important item to be sure) and the packaging, cooling, smart charging technology, monitoring, etc. being the key to a successful battery pack. GM will need to have, and apparently is developing, a significant amount of battery expertise.

Now if they can figure out how to run the company from a financial perspective….

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Vincent Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 9:58 am

Wake up GM…the Titanic just hit something in the night….
Toyota just out sold you!
Go away Rick…you suck!
You not worth it even for free pal.

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unni Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:02 am

Reverse outsourcing … , Its good that GM is poineering in it. It time to bring jobs back from other places and time to act than looking just on balance sheet and lay off and outsource.

Question : was going through the GM Eflex platform. It looks the charging port is on the driver side. Do you think its a design to be improved — reason : While parking the car on street the charging cable will be on the other side ( right side ).

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HyperMiler Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:04 am

So GM’s battery pack plant is nothing more than a CKD operation, assembling imported components shipped by LG.

This was necessary to overcome political backlash of using foreign-made battery by giving them an illusion of US assembly.

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Vincent Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:09 am

Bottom line is the cash from our tax dollars still going out of the country.
Monkeys can wire battery packs together…sorry but this is weak at best.

Now we buy batteries instead of oil. What genius at GM.
Holy Crap people. What a Joke. Are you telling me we can not make a battery here….how sad. All GM executives should be living in an Aztek pop out tent until they get it right. So tired of all the “Old School” management.

Anyone watch “Tucker” the guy that wanted to build rear engine cars with 4 wheel disc brakes, fuel injection and seat belts back in the 40’s…

The Big three ruined him because they didn’t want to spend the money to keep up and modernize. Big three had all politicians in their back pocket.

Rent the movie and enlighten your selves.

These are the same companies being bailed out.
Wow it’s so pathetic.

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Adrian Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:13 am

I like a lot of what GM has been saying about the new Hybrid and electric car business plans. Combine this with their excellent trucks *(which really make them money) and the great sports cars (ie. Camaro and G8) and GM has really set themselves up for a good run over the next 5 years.

Now if they could buy the Jeep brand…

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Johnny Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:24 am

RE: #18

The big 3 have fought every innovation, not just in the 40’s but up to present day. Their legal staff is one of the biggest divisions of the company that they use to sue against things like increased fuel mileage (i.e. California’s cafe laws) and safety (ie airbags).

Its the classic old school dinosaur business mentality that they clinging to, even though the world has changed around them.

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Red HHR Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:27 am

One thing GM has is empty buildings! They should make three of the buildings into battery assembly/manufacturing centers. Who handles the electronics & cooling? anyway it is a small step.

Once the building(s) are operational and the pipeline is full of new Volts,,, will the UAW go on strike?

Red HHR

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statik Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:29 am

#19 Adrian said:

I like a lot of what GM has been saying about the new Hybrid and electric car business plans. Combine this with their excellent trucks *(which really make them money) and the great sports cars (ie. Camaro and G8) and GM has really set themselves up for a good run over the next 5 years.
===============================
Just FYI on the Camaro/G8. GM has cancelled any future Zeta platforms (which they both ride on). The G8 truck is already canned, and the whole G8 line could be shut down virtually at any moment because of terrible sales, and also because of Pontiac’s “strategic review”.

(Of interest, the G8 is a captive import…meaning it is produced in Australia exclusively for the US market, which is a bad scene to begin with).
—-
Article/quotes on the subject:
“The strategy we had a few years ago of basically deriving a whole sweeping global portfolio off the Australian Zeta architecture … frankly, we have had to abandon that dream,” Mr Lutz said.

“This is because, whether you are in the United States or in China, fuel economy mandates are getting more and more severe, and we just could not base our strategy on doing relatively large and relatively heavy rear-wheel-drive cars.

The Zeta’s death knell in the US follows GM’s announcement last week that the VE utility-derived Pontiac G8 ST program had been axed just months before the first vehicle was due to be made and shipped to North America.
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/3179582951900889CA25753D0016D9D3

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Red HHR Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:40 am

#12 Shawn Marshall

I keep waiting also, I think GM should give Lyle the car for a day, or better a week, or a month. Think of the publicity and promotion. Then when they take the mule back they should give Lyle a newer mule….

Red HHR (Hey Lyle, give me a ride in the Volt mule and dinner is on me!)

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DonC Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:40 am

Statik – nice catch on this news yesterday!

BillR #10 says “It looks to be much more sophisticated than a group of 12V automotive batteries just cabled together.”
Statik #8 says “GM is just assembling the packs.”
Vincent #18 says “Monkeys can wire battery packs together”

As the cut-a-away indicates, It’s hard to know what “just assembling the pack” means. Getting the packs to work and maintaining them is a difficult endeavor. You can’t just wire a bunch of cells in serial, both because if one fails your entire battery fails and because you’ll forever have matching problems. Most have probably assumed that there will be some serial and parallel connections, and the cut-a-away suggests that, in addition, each module will have electronics that create a separate pack.

The point would be that the knowledge of how to actually get all those cells working together in a way which allows for the battery to be maintained is a big piece of value added. If GM is responsible for both designing and implementing this aspect of the pack then I wouldn’t say it is “just” assembling the pack. If it’s just putting the pieces together then it would be “just” assembling the packs. My guess is that it’s the former, which is why assembly has been identified as a core competency.

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Vincent Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:50 am

I know it seems like the legendary myth…however I did actually meet an engineer last week. He and his Dad are very respected in the engineering community….
Long story short…
His buddy made a simple plate. The plate is essentially a spacer block that goes between a carburetor and the intake manifold. Sort of a “hi rise” if you will for those that know performance engines.

It has spirals machined into the openings where fuel and air pass after being mixed in the carb. They attached a water injection unit to inject 1 part water for every 4 parts fuel/air and made a straight six cylinder Chevy engine get 60 miles per gallon. Essentially a Hybrid of a steam engine and a Gas engine.
Guess who bought the technology….
I’m not going to say just who because I do not have a huge legal department….but I will give you 3 Guesses…

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Red HHR Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:54 am

New pole or lottery,

It is day one of the Obama administration, he is a very busy man and has many things on his agenda. The question is how many days until he mentions the Volt or GM,

i am sure he will mention GM first, will he mention the Volt at the same time? i will guess the same time, in about a week.

Red HHR (What does it all mean?)

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Right Lane Cruiser Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 11:04 am

DonC, you have hit on exactly the point I was trying to make (though not as well). Pack assembly is by far the hardest part of constructing a usable electric vehicle. Yes, the chemistry is very important… but without proper construction, thermal management, balancing electronics, etc, any grouping of cells will be nearly useless no matter how good they are individually. By taking on pack production GM has assumed the most difficult portion of implementation. Disassociating this process from the cell manufacturer gives more room for proprietary income and also the flexibility to more rapidly switch chemistry while taking out a large QC concern with going with a new supplier.

This really is largely analogous to sourcing gasoline. The fuel storage and delivery system doesn’t come from the oil company — in this case the harnessing of multiple cells and metered delivery of their output won’t come from the battery manufacturer.

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N Riley Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 11:11 am

Chevrolet is GM’s most mass-produced vehicle line in cars, trucks and vans. We are ready to see some work get done towards production of the Volt. This is one small step, but a mighty important one.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 11:16 am

From the article:
Peper also confirmed the mainstream goal of the Volt saying “We chose Chevy because we can’t be niche with the Volt. We have to make it a mass-production vehicle.”

——–
Duh. We’ve only been saying this here since when………the beginning?!
But it will remain a niche until the price goes way down.

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stas peterson Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 11:16 am

GM must be getting healthier. Both Toyota and Nissan are bringing all of battery manufacture in house or in to their conglomerate brotherhoods. Kia/Hyndai and LG are doing the same for their Chebol. It is inevitable that the American automakers would do the same,and view it as a necessary core competency, just luike engines. But they had not until now simply because of cash issues. So the cash issues must be moderating.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 11:32 am

Not sure if anyone noticed, but GM just lost the number 1 position in the world to Toyota.

GM falls behind Toyota in annual global sales
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090121/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_global_sales

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Rashiid Amul Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 11:33 am

George K

I’ve been wondering about the Hymotion vehicle you have turned your Prius into. You had it now for what, 2-3 weeks? Do you like it?
How’s the range? etc.

Thanks,
Rashiid.

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noel park Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 11:36 am

#3 Eric C:

I’m with you. God send that it shall be true.

#29 Rashiid Amul:

Well I choose to optimistically believe that he means that, as the technology matures, it will be mass produced and the cost will come down. With apologies to J-C J, Voltec Spark?

With apologies to statik, Glass 99.99% full?

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Dave G Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 11:37 am

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but it’s official:
GM sold 610,000 fewer cars than Toyota, making it the first time in nearly 80 years that GM was not top in global sales.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/21/news/companies/gm_toyota_sales/index.htm?postversion=2009012109

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noel park Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 11:46 am

#31 Rashiid Amul:

When Bob Lutz first said that being #1 in global sale didn’t matter it sort of upset me. I saw it as spin and sort of a defeatist attitude.

Subsequent events have made a believer out of me. Survival comes first, profitably second, and being #1 in global sales is way back in the pack somewhere, IMHO.

If GM survives, and is able to continue to manufacture relevant cars and trucks in the USA, let Toyota be #1 as far as I’m concerned.

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k-dawg Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 11:59 am

Toyota sold more cars.. i’d be more interested to see the sales revenues.. and also the profits… That’s more relevant comparison to me than the number of cars/trucks/whatever…

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ThombDbhomb Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 12:43 pm

The first time in nearly 80 years that GM was not top in global sales?
That was a good run. I guess you can’t win them all. The competition is strong, I’ll give them that.

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Jeffhre Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 1:01 pm

27 Right Lane Cruiser AGREED, 9 Lunoir – and look at Statics post #8. CPI will assemble the packs in Michigan until GM’s plant is complete. 17 Hypermiler see DonC # 24

11 RB – GM has control contractually at all times. This gives them most importantly, control of cost and learning curves with systematic collection of the proprietary information generated by mass production.

30 Stas. You are on to something there, however it would be difficult for any large corp. to innovate outside of their core competency. When auto battery use is still small, innovation is in constant flux and development incredibly expensive, it’s more cost effective to let specialists and nimble start-ups shoulder the burden than have shareholder funds at constant risk.

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statik Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 1:05 pm

#36 k-dawg said:

Toyota sold more cars.. i’d be more interested to see the sales revenues.. and also the profits… That’s more relevant comparison to me than the number of cars/trucks/whatever…
=========================

I’m not sure you want to see those k-dawg, unless you arguing in favor of a even bigger gap for Toyota? That doesn’t sound like you, but you never know, lol. It is assuridly going to be a monsterous disaster for GM…whereas Toyota is likely going to post a moderate loss for the fiscal year (1-2 billion)….which runs through April for them I believe (too lazy atm to look it up).

/anywhoo, you’ll get your chance to look at GM’s revenue and profits in about 3 weeks when they ‘drop’ Q4/2008 results

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Tagamet Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 1:18 pm

Statik,
Maybe you could also print up a (smaller) batch of Tee shirts that say
“Tagamet was right”. Hmmm, or maybe “I plug in nightly” (evil grin).
I know, I know, it’s early….
7/4/2010
Be well,
Tag
LJGTVWOTR!! NPNS

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Red HHR Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 1:31 pm

#40 Tagamet,
Hmmm, or maybe “I plug in nightly” (evil grin).

ROTFLMAO

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statik Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 1:39 pm

#40 Tagamet said:

Statik,
Maybe you could also print up a (smaller) batch of Tee shirts that say
“Tagamet was right”. Hmmm, or maybe “I plug in nightly” (evil grin).
I know, I know, it’s early….
7/4/2010
Be well,
Tag
LJGTVWOTR!! NPNS
====================================

Thats cute Tag, lol.

Side note: I don’t really think we should be doing the GM vs. Toyota thing too much. That ship sailed a long time ago, and I think most of us realize that ‘future GM’ will still be a shadow of the size it is currently in a very short period of time.

The goal here is to find the size/mix that allows GM to be viable as possible, even if that means they are the world’s 5th largest automaker. Hopefully they can find a baseline for profitability.

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k-dawg Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 2:04 pm

statik Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 1:05 pm
#36 k-dawg said:

Toyota sold more cars.. i’d be more interested to see the sales revenues.. and also the profits… That’s more relevant comparison to me than the number of cars/trucks/whatever…
=========================

I’m not sure you want to see those k-dawg, unless you arguing in favor of a even bigger gap for Toyota? That doesn’t sound like you, but you never know, lol. It is assuridly going to be a monsterous disaster for GM…whereas Toyota is likely going to post a moderate loss for the fiscal year (1-2 billion)….which runs through April for them I believe (too lazy atm to look it up).

/anywhoo, you’ll get your chance to look at GM’s revenue and profits in about 3 weeks when they ‘drop’ Q4/2008 results
————-

I wasnt really argueing any points other than “car sales” is a meaningless number in this context. Define “car” and sales to who? If we are actually trying to find out who’s the biggest auto company in the world, wouldnt it make sense to compare who has the most revenues? If you wanted to take it a step further, also add in revenues from all sources outside of autos. For all I know Toyota has been #1 since 1950.

Edit: Another more reasonable comparison is to comare # of “cars” currently on the road from each company.

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ccombs Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 2:14 pm

Ahhh! Enough financial situation posts! I want to hear what people think about Voltec technology!

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Luke Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 2:24 pm

Comment deleted by poster — statik @ 8 has answered my question, and the budget seems reasonable.

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Dave B Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 2:33 pm

It’s great GM is manufacturing its packs for a couple reasons. 1) it lets GM learn how to build batteries to end our dependence on foreign suppliers (yes I know where the cells come from, but that may change; 2) GM has better control of the packs which it can hopefully pass to the consumer.

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Luke Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 2:43 pm

Vincent @ 18,

Now we buy batteries instead of oil. What genius at GM.

Buying one giant battery that I can recharge over and over for the life of the isn’t like buying a constant stream of oil that I need to tap every few hours of driving….

Vincent @ 25,

I know it seems like the legendary myth…however I did actually meet an engineer last week. He and his Dad are very respected in the engineering community….

Good. Now meet some other engineers — in the town where I used to live, there was a bar that was packed with engineers at certain times of the week. There are a lot of engineers around, but engineering is a very specific craft where people are very specialized. According to my job description, I’m a “Computer Systems Engineer” — I can’t do much with carburetors, beyond adjusting the mixture and the idle speed. But if you need a group of computers configured to work together to gang-beat a problem, I can help you out. Sounds like the engineer you met was a carburetor guy — I wouldn’t have him design a bridge and more than I’d want a bridge-builder designing a carburetor.

It does help that the towns where I’ve lived recently are both towns with big universities that are renowned for their engineering programs. That does tend to increase the number of engineers in town, even if 99% of the people who graduate with an engineering degree leave town when they’re done.

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Casey Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 2:48 pm

off topic

Dave G, on another site you said you wanted enough room to put your guitar and amp in for gigs, what kind of music do you play and where do you play?

My wife and I play a duo at many Moose and Elk lodges in Coos Bay Oregon area, you can visit my website at http://www.mikeandmerle@mikeandmerle.com (google launch site)

NO PLUG NO SALE, LJGTVWOTR, DBNGCMEME, (my house)=D~~~(my volt) .#33,772

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canehdian Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 3:02 pm

“Now we buy batteries instead of oil. What genius at GM.”

The difference between batteries and oil is that batteries are reusable (as Luke said) but also that they can be built anywhere. They’re only getting them from asia for now because of cost issues. In a couple years, when electrics are more mainstream (assuming ultracaps aren’t going far.. cough eestor /cough) Gm would be foolish to not develop their own manufacturing for it, or at the very least another company more local to the major car manufacturing plants.
If 3 car companies are all buying batteries, even if the north american made ones aren’t as cheap as asian ones, the savings in shipping alone should be worth it.
I knew of a few Canadian companies with “revolutionary” battery technology that went under a couple years ago because there was zero demand for them. (This was like.. 2004, when Li-ion was picking up, but certainly not as popular as today)
If those companies were around today, I would imagine they’d be in high demand.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 3:03 pm

I don’t give praise often or have not yet but in light of GM using an existing empty facility is a good move. I think GM will be in a position to “Assemble” and design battery packs for other auto mfgrs within the US or Export.

I’ll take my Volt with no Genset and no ICE, Shaken not stirred!

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Vincent Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 3:10 pm

#49
It’s stupid period.
Put the big 3’s bail out money together and produce all batteries for all of them in one plant here in the US and the price will be affordable NOW.
Creating jobs that we need here now. Invest in America
Luke whats your point. A battery is far more expensive than oil.
The oil just takes longer to pay for trip by trip gallon by gallon. As far as specific engineers no kidding they are specific….I worked with many making the chips you program with reactive ion etching, Ion implantation, Photo lith etc…
Now I work with chemists making Skin Care…noting to do with fuel MPG…

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Noah Nehm Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 3:16 pm

Vincent @ 25,

I know it seems like the legendary myth.

A while back my father was recounting how his dad and uncle were talking back in the 50s that there was a carburetor technology that allowed cars to get 100 mpg, but the oil companies bought the patents to prevent it being used. Of course, if those patents had existed, they’d be in the public domain now, and every car company would be all over them like white on rice.

The point is: there is no magic bullet and no conspiracy. The thermodynamics of automobile propulsion are pretty straight forward, and the car companies are working on the issues step by step.

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Mitch Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 3:17 pm

Speculative question..

GM is no longer #1..(big whup BTW), but I ask..does anyone think that Americans will react to the we’re NOT #1 in their purchasing choices now?

Not trying to upset anyone but my wife’s(who hails from the USA) father is an ex Ford man, and will not, EVER rent a non american car…they firmly believe in American companies (even if assembled in Canad or Mexico..to quote..at least isn’t japanese). they retired to Florida and when they flew up for Christmas, the rental company wanted t give a Prius..you could likely hear him yelling as far as Toronto (statik? hear anything around the 22nd of Dec?)

Will it affect purchases? Americans are by and large nationalistic when they are no longer #1…

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Vincent Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 3:25 pm

Sorry guys ran out of time to finish my post….didn’t mean for it to sound short.
You do not need to be an engineer to understand steam power and gas expansion…or how introducing steam into an engine will yield more power. As far as public information…LOL…you actually think everything is published or made public…Ha Ha Ha…that was really funny….
It’s easy to see corporate employees from creative entrepreneurs on this site…that’s not an insult in any way at all. Just an observation you will not understand if your the corporate type. I wont get any deeper into it or hijack this thread. I want GM to make it. I do not want my tax dollars going to old school corrupt management controlled by oil….or out of my country.
Peace Out believe what you desire.b rent tucker now.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 3:25 pm

@Mitch 53

That’s a vague question that requires many variables to make the decision.

Here’s my take, if a Volt and a BYD Fsomething is the same price, I chose the Volt.
If the BYD Fsomething is at least $5K less, I chose the BYD.

In a nutshell, I chose the first to sell in the States on an EREV or BEV with a range of at least 40 miles on only battery.

But that’s just me. Personally I think the Volt should’ve been here yesterday.

I’ll take my Volt with no Genset and no ICE, Shaken not stirred!

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Sheltonjr Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 3:48 pm

The other day, the Toyota dealership in their brand new buiding had two cars out by the road side to entice customers. One was a Corvet and the other a Mustang. I started thinking about it, and I cant think of a single Toyota car that is exciting. Good mileage & reliable but bland.

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Allan Mulally Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 3:54 pm

R U Kidding ? $30 mil is chump change.
I read sometime last year that A123 is planning to spend $2.3 BILLION to build battery plants. You gotta be joking here.

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CaptJackSparrow Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 3:57 pm

@Sheltonjr 56

“Good mileage & reliable but bland.”

That’s all I need. For my 20 minute commute, who gives a sh|t what people think of the car I’m driving. If their perception will get me a promotion or a raise then sure I’ll care but what are the chances?
I drive a fukced up old 97 Saturn because I refuse to purchase another ICE only vehicle and those current Hybrids are not in my interest.
I have always wondered why people are so vein about how their car looks when they are only going to be in it for about 30 – 45 minutes a day just to get from point A to B. It’s like it’s a fashion statement or something.

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Chris bAnGle Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 3:58 pm

The Build Your Dreams e6 is a totally awesome electric vehicle. Buy one if you can.

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RB Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 3:58 pm

#38 DonC said “The point would be that the knowledge of how to actually get all those cells working together in a way which allows for the battery to be maintained is a big piece of value added” and #38 Jeffhre adds “This gives them most importantly, control of cost and learning curves with systematic collection of the proprietary information generated by mass production.”
====================================

I agree on both points, and note that doing the assembly also gives GM control of the physical size and shape of the pack, a critical factor for use in any particular car. “Assembling the pack” is much more than simply putting some parts together in a standardized fashion, because there is no standardized fashion as of yet.

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Martin Winterkorn Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 4:03 pm

It shouldn’t take 2 friggin’ years to make batteries. Lithium battery is at least a 10-year-old technology. GM needs to think beyond Lithium.

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Jackson Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 4:05 pm

#56:

“I cant think of a single Toyota car that is exciting. Good mileage & reliable but bland”

Good mileage and maybe reliable I’ll give you, but for “bland” it’s hard to beat GM. Converj and Spark look like exceptions to this, hope they make it to market with their looks intact, and that they mark a (styling) turning point for the company.

Yes, GM can make some exciting cars, like the Corvette; but by and large not at Japanese prices.

GM has never accepted the idea of the car as an appliance. If you don’t buy your wheels for top dollar, you aren’t so much frugal as cheap, in their view. Go out and get more successful, then come in for a Cadillac; otherwise, who needs you?

The Japanese embraced the car-as-appliance model at a time Americans suddenly found new things (notably personal computing) to spend money on: and GM suffered.

I like Voltec, but have to see it as only a hopeful change in a long, sad story; a story that all too often includes out-of-step styling.

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Dieter Zetsche Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 4:06 pm

GM is now stating that they will run out of money at the end of March. Say What??? Can this really be possible?
They must be spending that jack like some drunken sailor.

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noel park Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 4:43 pm

#62 Jackson:

Have you priced a Lexus, or an Infiniti, or an Accura come to that, lately? Or any parts for same? They are not priced as appliances.

#63 Dieter Zetsche:

My understanding is that they were promised something like $7.5 billion and have gotten $4 billion so far. The second installment was supposed to have come by the end of January, and it hasn’t. So they are agitating to get it. Of course, if $4 billion gets them from December to March, I guess another $3.5 billion must get them to what, the end of June? The question is, what then? The “viability” plan is supposedly due February 17. That should be pretty interesting.

There is a story on this on the Yahoo business page today. It has all of the actual numbers. Or was it statik’s link above? It all gets sort of blurry after awhile.

As I said yesterday, it’s hard to see how we get from here to all of those wonderful new products in 2011.

BTW, nice job with Chrysler Dieter, LOL.

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CorvetteGuy Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 4:56 pm

Keep those jobs in the U.S.A. !!! Woohoo!

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Jeffhre Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 5:04 pm

Martin Winterkorn. # 61 – Batteries were the main propulsion source for Henry Fords cars until the electric starter was popularized. Believe that was done by Cadillac. Then gas Otto cycle took off in popularity. Batteries have been around for a while and the improvements have been slow. Two years in battery development is assuredly not a big deal. Regarding Li Ion battery development I found the following to be enlightening.

“John B. Goodenough, a professor of mechanical engineering at the University of Texas, is considered by many to have been the first to identify the material—lithium-ion cobalt oxide, to be specific—that brought about the consumer electronics revolution, fueled in large part by Sony’s li-ion battery packs (many of which, of course, would later be recalled en masse). Goodenough patented the material in 1980, but the safety concerns were obvious from the start.”

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Oh Blama Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 5:13 pm

This will accomplish little or nothing. Like all human beings. Wipe em out now and put em out of their misery. Leaves more space for US toaster ovens.

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GM Volt Fan Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 5:22 pm

Hmmm …. I wonder when we are going to see the “final” production versions of the Volt driving around Michigan? I wonder when we’ll finally be able to read about the “first test drive” by one of the big car magazines like Motor Trend or Car & Driver?

I bet we are about a year away or so. The future of the automobile is just over the horizon. It looks like GM is going to survive this economic turmoil. GM needs to sell off all those big SUVs and trucks as fast as they can while the gas prices are still low. They need the revenue obviously. Those big 10-15 mpg gas guzzlers will probably be a dying breed … the last of the mohicans.

The age of the electric car is getting closer and closer. A year seems to go by pretty quick. Maybe by early fall of 2010, GM can put a few “production intent” Volts in some big city showrooms for people to look at and maybe test drive if the dealer will let them. I bet they’ll be happy to take some down payments by then.

On the other hand … I don’t want to rush GM. I want GM to work EXTREMELY hard on the Volt and make sure it is going to be a very reliable, high quality machine. A car that all the car magazines and reviewers like JD Power and Consumer Reports will rave about. A car that people will love as much at 100,000+ miles as they will at 5,000 miles.

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N Riley Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 5:24 pm

Let Toyota be the number one in the world. That has been coming a long time now. I don’t know that they will be able to maintain the lead for very many years, but probably will.

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N Riley Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 5:26 pm

#25 Vincent

I don’t even know who to guess bought the design, but if I was forced to do so, I would guess ExxonMobil. Of course, I have no way of knowing. Can you give us a hint? And why would telling us put you in jeopardy?

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N Riley Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 5:27 pm

GM using an existing building will save some money if the plant floor can support what they need. I would assume they already have a plant in mind and know it will serve their needs.

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Jeffhre Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 5:27 pm

CaptJackSparrow 58

It is a fashion statement, big time. In the late 19th century the most popular of all available expensive consumer items was the piano. When a newer item was introduced, piano sales fell off the charts. What was that newer item. Give you a hint, you can’t drive a piano to the old neighborhood to show off how well you’re doing now.

Demographics:
Average value of a Calif. mobile home = $64,000.00
Average value of a Beverly Hills mobile home= $340,000.00

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N Riley Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 5:34 pm

#62 Jackson

I have to agree with you about GM cars. They are pretty bland unless you go for the top of the line with all the extras interior/exterior features. But, at the same time, I see a lot of Toyota and Nissan cars that are pretty bland unless they are in the upper price range also. So, maybe it depends on what you pay for them. GM and Ford vehicles are a lot more dependable than they are given credit for by Consumer Reports, etc. That magazine, and I am a subscriber, is pretty biased towards Japanese vehicles followed by European vehicles. Somewhere down th list American vehicles will get a mention and usually not a good one, at that. Some of the more expensive versions of GM and Ford vehicles do get good ratings occasionally.

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N Riley Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 5:41 pm

It is amazing to me to see the number of people who confuse “assembling battery packs” with “manufacturing batteries”. Manufacturing batteries will be a complex process, I am sure. But, assembling and testing these packs will be a very complex process also. GM should take on this job and I am glad they have decided to do it this way. It makes a lot of sense to do it this way.

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StevePA Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 5:44 pm

One person’s views:
Assembling battery packs in US – very good, for a number of reasons.
Lost #1 in car sales – not significant, won’t affect my purchase decisions.
Blandness in design – for family reasons had to be a function vs form guy for decades. Now in a position where design can play more of a role. Toyota? Hardly. GM – somewhat.
Last thoughts – You may not give a hoot over what my views are, but that’s ok too. Am looking forward to the day when the plug goes in the port.

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StevePA Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 5:58 pm

Detroit Auto Show / CNBC reporter
This may be old news – I’m here infrequently. There was a 1/2 hour show a week or so ago following Larry Kudlow’s program one evening. Don’t recall the CNBC reporter’s name (was reasonably accurate on technical issues). Among his interview subjects – one of the head people at Consumer Reports. Asked about progress made by American mfgs on quality / reliability / exciting design vs foreign (Japanese) makes, he said (my words): Ford – there on quality / reliability, perhaps a way to go yet with pleasing designs. GM – very close on quality, exciting vehicles being rolled out in recent years. Chrysler (sorrowful tone) has a tough road ahead.
So, some balance perhaps from what some refer to as “consumer distorts”.

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GM Volt Fan Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 6:13 pm

72. Jeffre:

I wonder if a few people in Beverly Hills will be cruising around town in one of these Ultimate Aero EVs. I bet Jay Leno will get him one. He already has an Aero with the gasoline engine.

http://jalopnik.com/5136538/ultimate-aero-ev-ssc-plans-to-build-worlds-fastest-electric-production-car

“SSC’s Nanotechnology Rechargeable Lithium Battery pack is rechargeable in only 10 minutes on a standard 110 outlet and has a 150-200 mile range on a single charge. This means that in a typical 8 hour day, the car using this technology could go 200 miles, charge for 10 minutes (the time it typically takes to fill up a tank of gas), then drive 200 more miles, charge for 10 minutes and continue on. Some other EV technologies necessitate an overnight charge creating a class of “commuter electric cars” and are not practical alternatives to gas combustion automobiles.”

“Scalable horsepower. From 200 horsepower (one motor) to 1200 horsepower (two motors “piggy backed”). Quick recharges. Only 10 minutes on STANDARD 110 outlet.”

This will be pretty amazing to charge up your EV in only 10 minutes on a regular 110V electric outlet. The technology is apparently here now … not in some futuristic world in 50 years. For some people. At least the millionaires in the world will be able to do a long distance drive from New York to California in 100% electric car in a few years. It just takes 10 minutes to “juice up” and off you go for another 200 miles on the interstate. Not a big deal at all. This is going to be awesome once it trickles down to cheaper cars for the rest of us. This Aero EV will probably cost $300,000+.

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statik Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 6:29 pm

#64 noel park said:

My understanding is that they were promised something like $7.5 billion and have gotten $4 billion so far. The second installment was supposed to have come by the end of January, and it hasn’t. So they are agitating to get it. Of course, if $4 billion gets them from December to March, I guess another $3.5 billion must get them to what, the end of June? The question is, what then? The “viability” plan is supposedly due February 17. That should be pretty interesting.

There is a story on this on the Yahoo business page today. It has all of the actual numbers. Or was it statik’s link above? It all gets sort of blurry after awhile.

As I said yesterday, it’s hard to see how we get from here to all of those wonderful new products in 2011.

BTW, nice job with Chrysler Dieter, LOL.
—————————————

Evening Noel, I pulled it from yahoo finance this morning and posted it. GM actually has a total committment from the gov’t for 13.4 for the automotive end. They got another 6 billion delivered already for GMAC (and another billion or two on top of that because GM couldn’t pony up the minimum requirement) and another 17 billion or so of gov’t credit to hand out to qualified people (ie-a pulse) who want to buy or lease a shiny new car.

The quote about running out of money by march was originally from Fritz Henderson at the Detroit autoshow a couple days ago, I little friendly ‘wakey-wakey’ jab from the next CEO of the General.

The second ‘installment,’ 5.4 billion of the original TARP bailout deal was scheduled to go out on the 16th (last friday), but was delayed…I guess there must have been something going on in Washington that kept all their attention from writing anymore of those fancy, over-sized ‘lottery style’ checks.

This is now moot because GM announced they got the 5.4 billion…oh, about a hour ago. So all is right in the world.

If you are playing the TARP home game, the next big bag of sweaty taxpayer money is scheduled to go out on Feb 17th. Nustshell requirment for that: you submit your homework paper on viability on time, and we give you another 4 billion.

Fresh linkage (if you are so inclined):
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN2150092420090121?rpc=44

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Jeffhre Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 6:32 pm

Martin Winterkorn
Dieter Zetsche
Chris bAnGle
Allan Mulally

With such high level auto experience here we should be making faster progress.

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Gary Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 6:34 pm

I don’t know if anyone mentioned the following in any of their previous posts but one reason for building the battery packs here in the good old USA, the profits on assembly from foreign parts, i.e. lithium ion cells, goes into the coffers of U.S. companies rather than the foreign companies. The importer who pays importation taxes has to put out less and therefore the price of the battery pack ends up lower. If you can get a hold of costs for the cells and other parts in the pack, and the cost of a finished pack do the comparison and I am sure you will see the difference. Why do you think that Toyota and all the other foreign car makers have built assembly plants in the U.S.; the import duties are far less on parts. That GM is going to assemble the packs in the U.S. is smart! I agree with most if not all of the previous statements supporting their action.

A battery pack is definitely a different product from the cell itself. Did I here right that A123 is building a manufacturing plant in the U.S.? For the time being the quantity of cells that are needed for the packs are only available from a foreign supplier. President Obama’s economic team has upped the count of new jobs that can be created to 500,00 million; this was based on developing clean coal technology: their previous figure, (correct me if I’m wrong – I do make mistakes) was 300,000 which included those jobs created in development and manufacturing of electric cells. Now is the time, when our government is backing development of an electronic economy, for U.S. capitol investment in our future. It will create new jobs and keep research and development here in the U.S. rather than giving new technology to foreign companies.

There is a lot more that can be said about GM doing the smart thing when it comes to building the battery packs here in the U.S. Five years from now, if we are still here on the face of earth, it will be interesting to look back and see how well Toyota or other foreign car manufacturer’s did compared to GM.

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Jeffhre Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 6:42 pm

GM Volt Fan 77 “This means that in a typical 8 hour day, the car using this technology could go 200 miles, charge for 10 minutes”

________

That’s great we should retrofit our cars and move to Hawai’i as they have already tried fast charging stations.

Most of the time the trade off for fast charging battery chemistry is a lower energy density though. Some have less durability because of fast charging and a lot of heat and wasted energy – a lot of work still remains to get to the perfect battery. I’m starting to like the Project Better Place lease and swap idea a little more.

Update; at the prices SSC usually charges I may have to settle for a mere Tesla Roadster as my weekend car though, what a shame, but thanks for the post anyway.

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noel park Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 6:53 pm

#78 statik:

Thanks.

So, if they get $5.4 billion plus the additional $4 billion for doing their homework, how long before they come back to the well?

#79 Jeffhre:

You think? Where’s Carlos Goshn, now that we need him?

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CDAVIS Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 7:03 pm

______________________________________________________
Many EV/EREV cars will be sold starting in 2010. Question remains who will emerge the market leader in selling those cars.

I hope the GM execs give the VOLTEC Team a real chance to be king of the EV mountian. GM…please run….run fast…don’t walk.
______________________________________________________
Electric Cars + Nuclear Power = American Energy Independence!
______________________________________________________

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statik Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 7:21 pm

#82 noel park said:

#78 statik, Thanks.

So, if they get $5.4 billion plus the additional $4 billion for doing their homework, how long before they come back to the well?
=========================

February 18th…no joke.

That 13.4 billion was not even close to what they needed. I figure they got down to around 5 billion in cash before they got the first infusion, plus they are still burning around 2 billion a month. By their own admission they need 11-14 billion on a continuous basis to remain solvent.

5 billion cash + 13.4 in bailout bucks = 18.4B
less: Jan/Feb/Mar Cash burn = 6 billion
Balance: MAXIMUM 12.4B at the end of March

That is 3 weeks away from the ‘crapper’ again. (And you have to put the request in long before for are in the hole…as we saw, the gov’t is not fast to act, lol).

There is also a mirade of extra expenses on top of this simple calculation that I’m not going to factor in at all, so those numbers are on the conservative side. (delayed supplier/labor payments, Delphi, Cadence issues, this battery plant, the 4 banger plant on hiatus still, LG Chem up front cash, etc.)

We’ll know the situation better in early February when they put out the Q4 report.

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Shawn Marshall Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 7:48 pm

spell checker – myriad?

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Shawn Marshall Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:02 pm

I think EVs of one type or another may redefine auto expected life. Is the Volt a 400K mile vehicle as long as you keep replacing the batteries ? The battery packs should be cheaper every time. This would affect the EV initial price disadvantage since resale value might be very high. GM should address this issue as a way to mitigate the Volt pricing problem in the mind of the public.

Of course GM knows the future is all about the batteries so they are doing all they can to get firmly wedged into the battery business. They have hinted Gen2 Volt batteries will already have double the capacity; if they can survive with enough government help, don’t you think they’ll be getting into cell production also? GM seems to be making a lot of good decisions but they really got caught by a triple whammy with oil prices, the financial debacle and the collapse of their home market. They are trying to fight it out with arrows sticking in their chest. Hope they make it.

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Fugio Cho Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:08 pm

Toyoda just bitch-slapped GM into second place. History will show that this is the beginning of the end of General Motors as we know it. Never again will they dominate and influence the world’s great auto makers. It is about time that the General lose its stars. Shame on the CEO and the rest of those so-called executives.

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JEC Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:16 pm

I would say GM is doing the right thing, building the battery pack assembly plant in the US. Here would be my top list of reasons:

1- GM keeps the true battery technology in-house. While the battery cell chemistry is critical, once you have the recipe, its just a matter of mixing and packing the cell. The real value is in how to tame these batteries and make them behave. Kind of like keeping the kids in-line.

2- The core battery cells can be made anywhere. Countries with the most accessible supplies of Lithium will have a leg up. Also, new chemistries will inevitably make the Lithium battery obsolete, so why invest in building obsolete battery production facilities.

3- JOBS! Keeping jobs in the US is obviously a plus. With the current economic conditions any job that stays in US is welcome. I am actually surprised GM is announcing this, since they could likely do the same thing, cheaper in other countries. Kudos to GM on this.

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JEC Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:23 pm

#87 Fugio Cho

GM may well fail, but I would be surprised if the US auto producing capabilities dies off. Actually, it could be that GM fails, and a new and stronger US company is formed. I have a lot of confidence in the ability of US workers to “do what it takes” to get back on top. It just may take a while.

I think Toyota makes an excellent product today. I hope they continue to produce good product, but I also expect competition to not just sit still and let Toyota keep taking market share.

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RB Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:27 pm

#84 statik said “…this battery plant, the 4 banger plant on hiatus still, LG Chem up front cash, etc.”
————————————————-

Has GM actually spent any money on any of these things?

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Jeffhre Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:46 pm

JEC 89

True it would be insane to try to sell off all of that capability for scrap when there is no market for it. That said though, US investors won’t risk buying into what’s left of GM and US makers are too under capitalized to try. That leaves Magna (Canadian), European or Asian makers, or foreign investors to pick up the pieces. If there are any usable pieces to pick up once the suppliers that depended on GM are hit with such a severe shock and implode.

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Carlos Ghosn Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:48 pm

I will have to agree with #87 Fugio, this will most likely be the start of GM’s slow agonizing death. It may take ten more years but their best years are certainly behind them.

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Dieter Zetsche Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 8:58 pm

As the inventor of the modern automobile it is Daimler’s destiny to assume leadership of automotive world now that GM has official ceded their role. I remember well when Mr. Daimler’s son Paul was proudly riding his Einspur (the world’s first motorcycle) back in 1885. Everybody knows that us Germans are the world’s greatest automotive engineers. It’s about time we resumed our rightful place atop this glorious industry.

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Jeffhre Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 9:04 pm

Dieter Zetsche

You are a lot older than you look.

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Jeffhre Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 9:12 pm

OK I’m slow but I just noticed this. Engine plant will cost $370 million and battery plant $30 million. Does it seem like building cars will be a more manageable investment when the ICE is replaced completely by advanced battery technology?

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BillR Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 9:21 pm

Popular Science has a short segment of the Volt’s battery pack that is interesting to watch.

http://www.popsci.com/cars/article/2008-10/inside-chevy-volts-battery

As some will remember, the Volt’s battery pack is monitored at the cell level, so there are a great deal of electronics (circuit boards) included with the battery pack (see my post #10).

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HyperMiler Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 9:25 pm

#95 Jeffhre Says:

> OK I’m slow but I just noticed this. Engine plant will cost $370 million and battery plant $30 million. Does it seem like building cars will be a more manageable investment when the ICE is replaced completely by advanced battery technology?

No, GM’s battery pack plant is a CKD(Completely Knocked Down) assembly operation. Most of components are shipped by LG in wooden crate. GM takes the wooden crate and volts them together into finished packs. GM doesn’t need anything other than lots of empty space, manpower to tie bolts, and testing equipment. GM only needs to bring its own pack box.

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HyperMiler Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 9:27 pm

#96 BillR Says:

> As some will remember, the Volt’s battery pack is monitored at the cell level, so that are a great deal of electronics (circuit boards) included with the battery pack (see my post #10).

It also helps that LG happens to be one of largest electronics company.

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BillR Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 9:33 pm

Another good link for all things Volt.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/auto_shows/2009_detroit_auto_show_naias_auto_shows/interviews_news/battery_pack_announcement_brings_chevrolet_volt_cadillac_converj_closer_to_reality_auto_shows

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Gas Electric Volt Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 9:51 pm

#93

“Everybody knows that us Germans are the world’s greatest automotive engineers. It’s about time we resumed our rightful place atop this glorious industry”.
_____________________________________________________

You’re not going to do it with the Volkswagen…

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Jackson Says:
January 21st, 2009 at 10:48 pm

DonC:

Sure, now the Japanese can charge anything they want. They’ve won over the kids from the 80’s and 90’s who got burned by crappy domestic “entry level” cars that couldn’t hold themselves together past the warranty period. Now they’ve grown up, and they’re going back to the simple reliability that won them over — even if that isn’t what it was anymore. The twig has already been bent.

It’s just a shame, (considering recent history), and that’s all.

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Casey Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:08 am

#77 GM Volt Fan

I hope everyone goes to your website and reads the entire article, Shelby Super Cars (SSC) if true will put the Volt and every other EV way into the past, 200hp mid sized car, 500hp small truck and SUV, 1,200hp piggyback for big trucks and military vehicles is amazing. I hope you run this article in future posts, with ten minute charges and two hundred mile range makes all the other EVs obsolete

NO PLUG NO SALE, LJGTVWOTR, DBNGCMEME, (my house)=D~~~(my volt) .#33,772

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Ed M Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:13 am

Dave K. =D~
Your January 19th, 2009 post

“I was recently reading about the supercapacitor leadacid combo battery. Using readily available materials (carbon) to boost battery efficiency.”

Thanks for your response Dave, if you’ve got a website I could read I would appreciate it.

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Luke Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:36 am

Vincent @ 51,

Luke whats your point. A battery is far more expensive than oil.

Batteries are rechargeable. Are you suggesting that I need to buy a new fuel tank every time I buy gasoline for my existing vehicle?

Monkeys can wire battery packs together…sorry but this is weak at best.

I refer you to Home Power Magazine, issues 1-129. Wiring together battery packs is easy. Wiring them together so they don’t explode, burn down, turn into an arc-welder, or wear themselves out in spectacular ways — well, that is more challenging. And the people who are rigging up the batteries for alternative-energy systems in the magazine don’t have to worry about the mass of the battery much — they have it a lot easier than the electric-vehicle people.

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Ed M Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 2:50 am

Well this is quite the revelation. No sooner will GM set up shop and the Finklemans will move in and that will be the end of cheaper and better batteries. If it costs too much to make good products then they’ll make cheap bad ones.
Isn’t this how GM got to be NO 2, by making bad cheap products or overly expensive good ones and toadying up to the unions.

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Jeffhre Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:49 am

Hypermiler 97

Did you mean to say:

Yes, GM’s battery pack plant is a CKD(Completely Knocked Down) assembly operation. Most of components are shipped by LG in wooden crate. GM takes the wooden crate and volts them together into finished packs. GM doesn’t need anything other than lots of empty space, manpower to tie bolts, and testing equipment. GM only needs to bring its own pack box.

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Jeffhre Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 4:59 am

BillR 99

Notice how the C/D article still says the generator will recharge the battery instead of drive the electric motor.

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:16 am

Have you seen this ? (from Friend FF on better Place)

Hot :

http://www.zpowerbattery.com/

Regards

JC NPNS

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Dave G Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:26 am

#86 Shawn Marshall Says: “…if they (GM) can survive with enough government help, don’t you think they’ll be getting into cell production also?”
————————————————————————————–
No.

GM said they wouldn’t get into cell production, at least not for the foreseeable future. Lyle has an article about this here on gm-volt.com. They said they want to have a horse race between battery technologies and vendors, and then always choose the winner.

Also, I’m pretty sure that battery cell manufacturing is a lot more complicated than battery pack manufacturing, so it would take a lot longer to ramp up on something like that.

(Quote)
Dave G Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 5:43 am

#95 Jeffhre Says: “OK I’m slow but I just noticed this. Engine plant will cost $370 million and battery plant $30 million. Does it seem like building cars will be a more manageable investment when the ICE is replaced completely by advanced battery technology?”
————————————————————————————–
By that logic, GM should start producing bicycles instead of cars, since they are much simpler and cheaper to build. The problem is that most people don’t want to ride a bike to work or to the store.

My point is that car makers need to build cars that people want, and most people don’t want a pure EV. This is why I’m so excited about EREVs. Most people would want this type of car. What’s not to like?

Some consider EREVs as just a temporary stepping stone to an end-game of pure EVs. I think the combination EREVs and ethanol is the end-game.

Customers don’t care about the relative complexity of one design to another, and manufacturers always find ways to make the most popular design cheaper to build.

(Quote)
statik Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:43 am

#90 RB said:

statik said “…this battery plant, the 4 banger plant on hiatus still, LG Chem up front cash, etc.”
———

Has GM actually spent any money on any of these things?
==========================
No, not at all (well they could have given LG Chem some cash to get started, that kind of thing is very tricky to find out).

Thats what I meant by those things are all added expenses (above my simple calculation) that have been delayed out or put on hiatus during the ‘crisis’, but need to be addressed now if GM is to be a on-going concern.

(Quote)
Mitch Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 8:56 am

#87 Fugio chow

Bitch slapped? I mean not that I care, but were talking what just over 600,000 cars?

lets see…#1 manufacturer for 80 YEARS = GM
Toyota…what…3 weeks now?

if you want to use the term bitch slapped..talk to me in 81 years…

(Quote)
HyperMiler Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 9:46 am

117 # statik Says

> No, not at all (well they could have given LG Chem some cash to get started, that kind of thing is very tricky to find out).

LG did receive a few million dollars in R&D funding from GM. However, LG was already working on the battery tech for Korean automakers under heavy Korean government funding; LG simply adopted its existing work to Volt spec.

(Quote)
Jeffhre Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:43 pm

Dave G

What’s not to like?
___________

Ummm…Having to spend 370 million to build engines that have already been developed and are in use now, and adding it to the cost of an electric car vs. 30 million for brand new cutting edge propulsion technology. If one is eventually used without the other, possibly when battery technologies can be used to lower the capital investments required for building cars, maybe cars will be less expensive for consumers. Preferably the one system that could eventually be replaced is the expensive one with hundreds of moving parts that burns fuel, uses expensive catalytic converters and leaves behind a few tons of carbon from the tailpipe in the atmosphere. All the more reason to support battery development. Unfortunately my crystal ball is in the shop. Not only do I not know what most people will really buy at sufficient margins to sustain a business, I can’t possibly predict what the end-game is either.

(Quote)
GM Volt Fan Says:
January 22nd, 2009 at 12:55 pm

93. Dieter Zetsche

You wrote:

“As the inventor of the modern automobile it is Daimler’s destiny to assume leadership of automotive world now that GM has official ceded their role. I remember well when Mr. Daimler’s son Paul was proudly riding his Einspur (the world’s first motorcycle) back in 1885. Everybody knows that us Germans are the world’s greatest automotive engineers. It’s about time we resumed our rightful place atop this glorious industry.”

Read this:

http://jalopnik.com/5137035/what-happened-to-german-cars

“There’s a reason why we’d rather have a Cadillac CTS-V than an M5 or an M3. It’s because the CTS-V is more exciting than anything Germany is putting out.”

(Quote)
Herm Says:
January 24th, 2009 at 1:36 am

The cost of LG cells may go thru the roof in 2010-11 if a lot of car manufacturers start demanding cells.. world capacity to produce cells is limited.

Will LG give priority to Korean car companies?

(Quote)
hot north Says:
May 14th, 2009 at 8:59 pm

put out the steam engines gm change will stimulate loads of business !!!!!! give the costomer the choice of zero emisions

(Quote)
jeffhre Says:
July 3rd, 2009 at 12:58 am

That’s great we can rest assured GM has one guaranteed, and excited, customer!

(Quote)
future-engineer Says:
July 23rd, 2009 at 8:46 am

its funny how people think the chevy volt will help the environment

(Quote)

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GM Volt Battery Plant to Cost $30 Million, Will Open in 2010, and Will be Converted From Existing Facility

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