AND 
Driven to the Brink GM Vows to Build Volt No Matter What, Chrysler Shuts Down All Vehicle Production, and Merger Talks Resurface
The drama of the end game seems to be picking up steam. Despite early reports that the Bush administration would announce loan plans to GM by Wednesday, still no word. Most recently, White House press secretary Dana Perino said “there’s nothing new on the auto front.”
President Bush discussed the topic on Wednesday on a Fox News interview and said the following:
“I’m thinking through, you know, it needs to get done relatively soon. I’m looking at all options. Two principles by which I’m making this decision is … a disorganized failure, disorganized bankruptcy or disorderly bankruptcy would cause, could cause great harm to the economy — beyond that which we’re now witnessing, and that concerns me. And the other point is that … I’m not interested in, in really putting good money after bad, so it’s … an issue that I’m thinking through.” (Reuters)
Chrysler announced it will be shutting down all vehicle production at all of its 30 plants beginning this Friday for a period ending no sooner than January 19th. As we’ve heard GM has had to shut down construction of the Volt engine plant.
However, a senior GM executive stated that GM will continue efforts to build the Volt even if the government loans don’t come through. This person said “although we are temporarily absolutely stopping all work on everything, the Volt will be out as originally scheduled.”
Reportedly there are plans in place such that even if GM goes into bankruptcy it will still have funds set aside to carry the Volt to production. It was noted that even if the Flint factory doesn’t get built in time, the 1.4 L engine generator could be sourced from overseas. (CNN)
Sources familiar with the White House discussions advise me though that the bailout negotiations are progressing and because there is “no playbook for this” it takes time. Those sources reassure us that a conclusion will be coming soon.
Furthermore new reports indicate that Chrysler is attempting to revive merger discussions with GM again in an effort to prove to the government they are serious about restructuring. GM has denied this.
109 Responses to “Driven to the Brink GM Vows to Build Volt No Matter What, Chrysler Shuts Down All Vehicle Production, and Merger Talks Resurface”
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December 18th, 2008 at 7:05 am
Good luck, GM.
From the article:
This person said “although we are temporarily absolutely stopping all work on everything, the Volt will be out as originally scheduled.”
—–
hmmm. If they stop everything and the Volt will be out as scheduled, does this mean they are currently ahead of schedule?
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December 18th, 2008 at 7:13 am
Or is that the stoppage is extremely short?
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December 18th, 2008 at 7:19 am
The table that Lyle posted several days ago says it all…
http://gm-volt.com/2008/12/15/gm-plans-to-build-a-strong-hybrid-small-vehicle-but-will-spend-twice-as-much-developing-e-flex-cars/
If E-Flex can improve mileage by 100 to 120%, that means even a full size pickup truck would see ratings of 30 city, 40 hwy. E-Flex has the potential to give everyone the vehicle they truly want, without sacrifice.
So I see that it is not just the Volt that GM is building, but an entirely new automotive architecture. GM is on to something very significant, and they know it.
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December 18th, 2008 at 8:21 am
hi BillR #3,
“…that means even a full size pickup truck would see ratings of 30 city, 40 hwy.”
_____________________
The fun will begin when we reach 200HP electric rear wheel drive.
=D~
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December 18th, 2008 at 8:28 am
3. BillR,
The attempt by that chart to summarize all the variables into one number was horrible. An EFLEX truck wouldn’t “see ratings of 30 city, 40 hwy”. Nor would it be “without sacrifice”.
It would be ~$15,000-$20,000 more than existing trucks. It would have less payload or need to be a club cab without all the extra capacity. It would have a highway electric range of perhaps 20 miles and then it would get sub 25 MPG highway. If would have a city electric range of perhaps 30 miles and then it would get ~20 MPG.
Most people would need a plug at home and at work to make it within gunshot distance of worthwhile. It would have less cargo volume and/or passenger volume.
EFLEX is one big giant compromise.
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December 18th, 2008 at 8:35 am
Too bad GM didn’t roll out this E-flex five years ago, when gasoline prices started getting out of hand.
Best regards,
D’Artagnon
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December 18th, 2008 at 8:43 am
Smart move on Chrysler’s part.
“Seven days to Christmas…and you are out of work my friend. Sorry to ruin your Christmas, but there’s no money left.
If you want to go back to work before inauguration, call a Senator with a Toyota, Honda, or BMW plant in their state, and ask them what job prospects are in that state, since you will be moving there looking for work, UAW card in hand.”
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December 18th, 2008 at 8:44 am
White House Wants Auto Bailout by Christmas: Report
The Bush administration appears to want an agreement with the automakers before Dec. 25. It was unclear, however, when all of the particulars might be worked out, said the senior official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the delicate nature of the negotiations.
“Because of the failure by Congress, we’re left with suboptimal options,” said Tony Fratto, the deputy White House press secretary. Cautioning that no decisions had been completed, Mr. Fratto added, “We’ll do what is in the best interests of taxpayers and the national economy.”
http://www.cnbc.com/id/28292857
=====================================
The bailout that will never end, sigh.
Fortunately, (or unfortunately depending on how you look at it), GM probably runs dry before Christmas and forces the situation.
In the long run, if the gov’t does bail them out, they will have caused billions of dollars worth of damage by waiting this long to figure out the ‘best plan’. GM can’t just shrivel up into a little ball for two months, cutting off all the dealers and suppliers…starving them to death, not paying their bills, withholding their promised incentives, and then just reopen and hope everything goes back to the way it was.
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December 18th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Hopefully, we will hear something this week. I think the UAW is playing chicken, thinking that they can wait for the Obama administration. Well, I guarentee that the Obama administration can’t do anything once GM heads to bankruptcy court.
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December 18th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Lyle’s post says a GM executive said “… “although we are temporarily absolutely stopping all work on everything, the Volt will be out as originally scheduled.”
=========================================
When Lyle writes the history of this blog, this quote will have to be included. It may even be the quote for the cover of the book.
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December 18th, 2008 at 8:48 am
You will want to burn that UAW card!! That’s what got you into this situation to start with.
Oh and if you want to go to work for Honda, Toyota or one of the other car manufactures that don’t have a union and are not in this mess, that card won’t do you any good either.
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December 18th, 2008 at 8:50 am
#7 Eco says “If you want to go back to work before inauguration, call a Senator with a Toyota, Honda, or BMW plant in their state,… since you will be moving there looking for work, UAW card in hand.”
======================================
Moving to a region having more opportunity is a seriously good idea. People have done it for generations. It works.
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December 18th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Too Bad GM killed the EV1, thanks to Wagoner. If the EV1 were not crushed, GM would probably had the 3rd or 4th generation EV1 by now, and GM would have been the #1 auto manufacturer on this planet.
Thank you Mr. Wagoner for killing GM.
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December 18th, 2008 at 8:53 am
#8 statik says “GM can’t just shrivel up into a little ball for two months, cutting off all the dealers and suppliers…starving them to death, not paying their bills, withholding their promised incentives, and then just reopen and hope everything goes back to the way it was.”
==================================
The good part is that inventories are gradually getting back into line with demand. That is setting the stage for a really good year for the 2010 models for anyone still in business.
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December 18th, 2008 at 9:30 am
@ #7, Eco:
–“Seven days to Christmas…and you are out of work my friend. Sorry to ruin your Christmas, but there’s no money left.
If you want to go back to work before inauguration, call a Senator with a Toyota, Honda, or BMW plant in their state, and ask them what job prospects are in that state, since you will be moving there looking for work, UAW card in hand.”–
The UAW chumps will be having the best Christmas ever, because they’ll be collecting their checks and maintaining benefits despite not working for who knows how long.
Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Chrysler-says-to-shut-down-rb-13862270.html “The more than 30,000 Chrysler workers in the United States represented by the UAW receive nearly full benefits and wages during plant shutdowns”
So once again, aw the poor unions and their poor workers, how ever could we have let this happen, boo hoo, they’re going to starve and cry and their children will be weeping on Christmas.
Oh, they’ll be getting an extended Christmas break? And it won’t cost them any personal/vacation days? Sounds like a hell of a deal…
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December 18th, 2008 at 9:32 am
The Volt is in Development. Development. Production has stopped. This does not necessarily affect the Volt, though GM could be saving that news for later.
My impression was the battery was the critical path for this vehicles. Is battery development continuing? If so, then we don’t need to get worked up yet.
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December 18th, 2008 at 9:49 am
GM – Chrysler mergers talks are reportedly back on
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008/12/17/chrysler-gm-reopen-merger-talks/
This is my favorite line in the whole story—– “Earlier this month, Congress pressed Cerberus to inject fresh capital into Chrysler as part of any rescue plan. So far, the firm has rejected the idea, saying shareholders of rivals GM and Ford Motor Co. aren’t being asked to contribute more capital, and that its investment charter prohibits such a move.”
Isn’t the irony just amazing. Cerberus has more money to put in, but won’t because they know it’s a bad investment. So instead, they get my money which I have no choice but to give. Lovely.
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December 18th, 2008 at 9:57 am
#8 statik says “In the long run, if the gov’t does bail them out, they will have caused billions of dollars worth of damage by waiting this long to figure out the ‘best plan’. GM can’t just shrivel up into a little ball for two months, cutting off all the dealers and suppliers…starving them to death, not paying their bills, withholding their promised incentives, and then just reopen and hope everything goes back to the way it was.”
How true. Most insightful post of the day. But it’s been their pattern to be late to the party. Just like with the financial crisis, here they’re hemming and hawing until their hand is forced, which is usually later than you’d like it to be. The saving grace is that they do OK once they engage.
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December 18th, 2008 at 9:58 am
They can’t move on the battery because that would cost money. The battery supplier will want a bunch of money to build a manufacturering facility. I can’t see them building one based on “…the Volt will be out as originally scheduled.”
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December 18th, 2008 at 9:59 am
At the Chevy dealership where I work, new car customers are NOT asking for Aveos, Cobalts, Malibus, Trailblazers, Equinoxes, or Impalas. They are asking for Trucks (because they need them for work), Tahoes and Suburbans (if they can get them for 30% or more off), and the rest ask about Camaro and Volt. A few ask about Traverse.
I hope Chevy can get the Camaro up and running in big numbers. That’s the only profitable cash cow I can see them building until the Volt is ready.
New technology ‘green’ vehicles are fine, but people buy what excites them. If GM wants more sales, they need a new marketing campaign. ‘Green’ is NOT very exciting. Readers of this site were excited about the Volt Concept. When the body style changed, everyone was bored. The E-Rev system will not sell the car on it’s own. Not in big numbers. The Volt needs an exciting campaign to make you want it.
They should start now with part of their bailout money.
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December 18th, 2008 at 10:04 am
A little OT…Is it just me or does the picture of the new Mailbu that pops up all the time in ads on this website look a whole lot like the pictures we’ve seen of the front of the Volt?
Seems to me that having all your cars basically look the same is one of the problems GM has faced for years…and IMHO one of the reasons people have been buying other manufacturer’s vehicles in ever-increasing numbers.
I hope the Volt looks unique…and isn’t just a Cruse with batteries…
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December 18th, 2008 at 10:07 am
How many believe the world will remember only a few months ago oil was hovering at $147.00 per barrel. Already, there are signs those steeply discounted 10 MPG autos are moving and hybrids are sitting.
The addiction to Middle-East oil continues. Heroin dealers also play this game similarly with their hooked and dying addicts, milking every last dime they can.
OPEC has mastered the game of profitably pumping oil at as little as $2.98 a barrel. They simply set the price for energy at a rate just below the next Western-world technology long enough to stifle it or kill it off. Now, where is our government’s response to all this. Hopefully one will come before we’re all indebted far too deeply to the Oil Sheikdoms to get out of this mess.
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December 18th, 2008 at 10:10 am
#17 Cautious Fan says “Cerberus has more money to put in, but won’t because they know it’s a bad investment.”
Even funnier is that they’ve said that they’ll be satisfied if they get their $4B back. Money back? Are these clowns serious?
Keep in mind that this outfit is run by Snow from the Bush administration and has Dan Quayle on its board. How’s that for intellectual firepower? Making up for this (lack of) of business acumen, they’ve tried to use their political connections, lobbying Republican senators heavily. Very heavily. This merger talk is all of their making because it’s a possible way for them to get something out. Let’s see who in Congress thinks this is a good idea.
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December 18th, 2008 at 10:13 am
GM officially shoots down the WSJ Chrysler merger story:
———————
GM says report that it and Chrysler have reopened talks for a possible merger is untrue
DETROIT (AP) — General Motors says a report that it and Chrysler have restarted talks to combine the two ailing automakers is untrue.
The Wall Street Journal, citing people familiar with the discussions, said Thursday that talks about a combination have been rekindled after Cerberus Capital Management LP, the majority owner of Chrysler LLC, signaled it is willing to part with some of its stake in the automaker.
Spokesman Tony Cervone says GM’s stance on the merger talks has not changed since it suspended them when it announced third-quarter earnings in November.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081218/gm_chrysler_talks.html
——————
In another ‘good news’ story. CTV (national network in Canada) cancelled Canadian Idol, not due to ratings…but lack of advertisers. Ok, that is bad news…but the good news is that a earlier pre-negotiated arrangement with other concerned parties to view the prgram has now been terminated and I am free to roam the digital cable spectrum unencumbered for these time periods in the future.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gmABis9KUUHZbXSXh0IhulRK8AZwD954JU8G0
…now to just get its vile older brother out of the US market and I will have obtained complete freedom from the singing youth of our respective countries
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December 18th, 2008 at 10:17 am
“It was noted that even if the Flint factory doesn’t get built in time, the 1.4 L engine generator could be sourced from overseas.”
So what good is your UAW card doing you now! The UAW deserves the shaft, enough is enough.
I wonder how much it would cost to build the entire Volt overseas and import it into the US? Wouldn’t that be funny if China or Russia was to offer GM a new home, all they need to do is leave the US!
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December 18th, 2008 at 10:23 am
GM should put all the new resources on launching the Volt. A merger between Chrysler and GM is the best way to come out not only the Volt, but Chryslers electric platforms as well.
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December 18th, 2008 at 10:26 am
White House just released a note saying that a decision was very near and that they are considering a managed bankruptcy as one of the options.
/how they define ‘near’ or how that differs from what they already said…I have no clue
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December 18th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I think the White House problem is trying to figure out just how much $$ it would take to make the Auto manufacturers survive until Jan 22. That would make it no longer their problem
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December 18th, 2008 at 10:47 am
It’s sad to hear the outright hatred for the UAW here. They got very good deals back in the 50’s and 60’s, which many people now view as unfair (jealousy?). But, what is fair? Is it fair that CEO’s earn tens of millions of dollars per year in salaries (of course that is chicken-feed in finance)?
It just seems to be a part of the general disrespect in the US for people who ‘make things’. Even the CEO’s of the car companies were treated far differently from their counterparts at AIG, BofA, etc.
Reading comments like those on this site clearly shows what a divided, self-hating country we have become. Obama will need a magic wand to cure that.
Sorry about the non-car discussion. I was really thrilled when I first learned of the Volt. The article in The Atlantic about the genesis of the car makes for wonderful reading.
It’s clear that electric cars are coming. I hope GM gets to be part of the party.
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December 18th, 2008 at 10:58 am
#4 Dave K. =D~ Says: “The fun will begin when we reach 200HP electric rear wheel drive.”
————————————————————————————-
How about 320HP electric 4-wheel drive?
http://www.hipadrive.com/sema.html
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December 18th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Unrelated:
Have you guys heard about how people are trashing foreign cars in Detroit? They are smashing windows, keying them, slashing tires, etc.
I dunno what to say. I guess i’d like to go to their house and throw a brick thru their Japanese/Chinese plasma TV.
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December 18th, 2008 at 11:02 am
Gee whiz let us bad mouth the UAW some more, DUH do you guys suppose they had anything to do with the development of the Volt. Granted GM has made mistakes and so has the UAW, you guys are living proof that Americans have turned into a divisive back stabbing bunch of malcontents, all this while Ja Pan has dumped billions into there companies and yes dumped product all over the world at prices lower than what their own countrymen pay in Ja Pan. So now we have no leadership and the country is basically BROKE, now we must all rely on foreign governments to support our debt, GOOD LUCK WITH THAT, so lets continue the diatribe against our fellow Americans while the Japanese and Chinese laugh all the way to the bank. I just hope that all of you guys who drive foreign cars someday realize what the hell has been going on ever since the U.S. market was open to our foreign friends and yes call me a nationalist but we used to call each other Americans, now we can look forward to the NEW WORLD ORDER guess where we will fit into that picture BANANA REPUBLIC.
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December 18th, 2008 at 11:14 am
UAW has cut their own throat.
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December 18th, 2008 at 11:17 am
I just saw Bush giving some remarks at the American Enterprise Institute. His comments indicated that the loans are imminent since he was giving the reasons why this was warranted. Basically three:
1. Not normal times
2. Too hard a hit for the economy
3. Desire not to saddle Obama with “a catastrophe”
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December 18th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Sorry, another unrelated question:
Does anyone know why Ford has leased the Red Lot at DTW?
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December 18th, 2008 at 11:19 am
I agree
I drive american and love my car. 230k and it was not suposed to be that great according to consumer distorts.
Actually I have had no problems except my alternator in my engine went out at 197k
I cant stand foreign car people. They think they are better becase they drive a foreign car.
I just look at them beign more ignorant and buying because they want an image to be cool or hip.
So make the foreign countrys richer by buying that hip car.
Oh and then they say “its built in the USA”
Maybe 8 percent of it is. But think of the profits, research , hitech jobs and parts.
That comment just dosent fly.
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December 18th, 2008 at 11:20 am
Statik @24 said, “In another ‘good news’ story. CTV (national network in Canada) cancelled Canadian Idol, not due to ratings…but lack of advertisers.”
———————————–
Does that mean there are no good Canadian singers anymore??? I’ve always liked Alanis Morissette and Bryan Adams…lol.
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December 18th, 2008 at 11:25 am
#32 chevonly says “you guys are living proof that Americans have turned into a divisive back stabbing bunch of malcontents”
This is very true. Unions may have outlived their usefulness, but the vituperation directed at the UAW from some posters here is beyond reason. Class warfare is a two way street. Ford has put out a video about a new production plant in Brazil. It emphasizes how efficient and flexible the plant is, and ends with the message that Ford would like to build a plant like this here but “the UAW won’t let them”.
The problem is that the video also points out that all management wears the same basic uniform as the workers and that the separate executive dining facilities which are found in Detroit don’t exist — everyone eats at the same cafeteria. Presumably the executive gyms also don’t exist. Basically class warfare is a two way street. You can’t run a plantation and act surprised with the resulting discontent. IOW the UAW is half the problem.
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December 18th, 2008 at 11:34 am
hi GLV #21,
“Seems to me that having all your cars basically look the same is one of the problems GM has faced for years…”
_______________________
After having seen the Volt up close twice I can assure you it’s no Malibu. The best way to describe it is an American BMW.
More like an E46 http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/BMW-model_E46.jpg
++++++++++++++
hi Dave G #30,
“How about 320HP electric 4-wheel drive?”
_______________________
Let’s set a date of 2012 on this one.
=D~
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December 18th, 2008 at 11:44 am
38 DonC :
Well put. We all have our own perspectives; and the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
The execs can’t live it up in front of the UAW guys; they’d be much better off to promote a team atmosphere where everyone is the same status.
At the same time the UAW can’t pull a lot more wage than the average taxpayer, refuse to take immediate cuts for the good of the company and their own futures, and not expect the average taxpayer to see them the same way the UAW guys see the high-on-the-hog management types. IMO they just do not realize they are themselves seen as ‘the aristocracy of labor’ by the very taxpayers they are asking for funding from. That isn’t right either.
I want the domestics to survive; no – to thrive. But I don’t want to chip in a share of my income to support someone who makes a lot more than I do. Believe me, I know that their jobs are not super easy. But I would trade places with one of them in a heartbeat if I had the chance; Pay cut and all. I’d bet there are a whole lot of people out there that feel the same way.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
This just in. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gjq9nsV5ZDXYFK4m1M-Apv1OYtdQD9557UFG1
President Bush steered toward bankruptcy option. GM and Chrysler are now heading toward bankruptcy.
Bye Bye, Volt.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
#37 GLV:
Ian Tyson, Sylvia Fricker, Buffy Ste. Marie, K D Lang, Gordon Lightfoot, the list never ends. Sorry to date myself, but our northern friends are clearly highly cultured folks. Doug and Bob McKenzie notwithstanding.
LOL at Bush, not wanting to throw good money after bad. There is a report on the Yahoo news this AM about Salomon Bros. using bailout money to pay bonuses. This after they lost what, $2 Billion plus last quater? Double standard? Gee, do you think?
#17 cautious fan and #23 Don C make good comments on Cerberus getting their $4 billion out of this mess. I mean, it’s chump change compared with the $350 billion they have bestowed upon their buddies on Wall Street.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
#37 GLV
Statik @24 said, “In another ‘good news’ story. CTV (national network in Canada) cancelled Canadian Idol, not due to ratings…but lack of advertisers.”
———————————–
Does that mean there are no good Canadian singers anymore??? I’ve always liked Alanis Morissette and Bryan Adams…lol.
==================================
Thankfully, we will be going back to the system of musicians getting to the top based on their own experiences and skills…and not all nicely pre-packaged and marketed up.
Drives me insane all these ‘Idol artists’ on the radio and in the record stores.
/just my opinion though
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
#13
That sounds about as true as it can get. While they were expensive as hell, SOMEONE out there would buy them (as seen in the video Who Killed the Electric Car).
—————————————————————————————–
Anyways, I thought Bush sounded like an idiot in his quoted material above.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
Other news, White House press secretary has expounded on the bailouts:
–
White House considering “orderly” bankruptcy to deal with ailing automakers
WASHINGTON (AP) — The Bush administration is seriously considering “orderly” bankruptcy as a way of dealing with the desperately ailing U.S. auto industry.
White House press secretary Dana Perino said Thursday, “There’s an orderly way to do bankruptcies that provides for more of a soft landing. I think that’s what we would be talking about.”
President George W. Bush, asked about an auto rescue plan during an appearance before a private group, said he hadn’t decided what he would do.
But he, like Perino, spoke of the idea of bankruptcies organized by the federal government as a possible way to go
At the White House, Perino said, “The president is not going to allow a disorderly collapse of the companies. A disorderly collapse would be something very chaotic that is a shock to the system.”
She said one of the factors delaying an announcement on an auto rescue plan is the continuing discussion between the administration and the various sides that would have to sign on to a managed bankruptcy — entities such as labor unions and equity holders in addition to the companies themselves.
“In any scenario that comes forward after this decision-making process, all those stakeholders are going to have to make tough decisions,” she said.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Bush-considering-orderly-auto-apf-13868234.html
—————————————————
Starting to look like the exact same thing/problems as the Corker plan that the UAW had issue with.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
@Zack henery 36
Dude get a friggin CLUE!
I bought a 2002 Ford Explorer. American right????
WRONG!
My master power window switch went out. pulled it out and it’s labeled “Made in Mexico”. I ordered the new part and it was labeled
“Made in Mexico”.
This is a global economy and all of the big 2.55555 mfgr outside of the US.
Enough with your pathetic bantor.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
I don’t think a union worker making a few dollars more than a non union worker is killing the automakers, but the work rules, getting paid to do nothing, the retirement pensions and healthcare all make the auto companies non competetive. It is really that simple. The unions will have to allow the companies to become competetive, or become unemployed. The way the political atmosphere looks to me, I would say that if the automakers go into bankruptsy, with Paulson as the car tzar, the unions can kiss their asses goodby.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
In my opinion, an orderly bankruptcy is the best option. As such, this will give the courts and the government near complete oversight of GM’s restructuring by providing the necessary DIP financing. Also, GM and Chrylser should merge and Hummer, Pontiac, Buick, Saab, Chrysler, and Dodge all need to go, either by being sold or put out to pasture. It will be many years before the domestic auto industry will be selling appreciably more than 12M cars per year, which means there needs to be a lot fewer brands being sold. Ford needs to give Volvo back to the Europeans as well.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:33 pm
Looks like Bush is confusing bankruptsy protection with bankruptsy.
In no other democracy does a losing party have so much power – and ofcourse with spineless “leaders” like Harry Reid anything is possible.
The Car Tzar was supposed to be like the bankruptsy court judge – helping parties come to an understanding for major restructuring of debts and costs.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
for what it’s worth, while Chrysler announced a 4 week shutdown… it should be noted that Chrysler normally has a 2 week shutdown for the holidays so it’s really just an additional 2 week shutdown.
similar situation at Ford…. they are shutting down an additional 1 week above normal.
By the way, for my personal situation normally a pure BEV (ie. not a hybrid aka “range extended”) would be better for me… however if anyone hasn’t heard, up here in the Northeast, especially in New Hampshire, we had a major ice storm that took down most of the lower 1/2 of the State’s power grid. I was without power for 6 1/2 days and I think there are another 50,000 households still without power, some not planned to get it back until late next week!
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Got to love the propaganda machine these executives are running. Meanwhile their stock is down another 13% and oil is at record lows again.
“Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain”
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
I don’t think Chrysler should merge with GM, GM doesn’t need any distractions.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
@Jay
> Hummer, Pontiac, Buick, Saab, Chrysler, and Dodge all need to go,
Buick brand will be protected at all cost. In fact, GM plans to transfer US Saturn line up to US Buick and sell Saturn brand to China’s SAIC along with Hummer brand as a package deal.
> Ford needs to give Volvo back to the Europeans as well.
So far, only Chinese(ChangAn, Geely, and Chery) are bidding on Volvo. No Euro bidder.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
@Zack henery 36
A sample size of 1 has an extremely high margin of error.
Its like saying – “How could Bush have won in 2004 – I didn’t vote for him !”.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:43 pm
What does “normally aspirated” mean? Is a big improvement over other small engines or what?
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Looks like it’s going to be some kind of bankruptcy for GM and Chrysler at this point. This is not going to be a fun ride, but hopefully it’s for the greater good of the companies, the suppliers, and the economy overall.
It beats leaving their debt problems in place, putting them on life support indefinitely, and watching them suffer till the fed finally pulls the plug. At least this way there’s a chance they’ll come out of the bankruptcy as viable competitive companies again.
Fingers crossed. The (supplier) plant I’m at is starting to get pretty quiet today.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
55 – normally aspirated just means no turbo or supercharger
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
#48 Jay predicted “It will be many years before the domestic auto industry will be selling appreciably more than 12M cars per year”
=============================================
My prediction (really just a guess) is that well in excess of 12M will be sold in the 2010 model year. The basis of the guess is that autos have a limited lifetime. While they can be kept going indefinitely with enough repairs, that’s not happening either.
What is happening now is that both purchases and repairs are being deferred until people are more optimistic. The bucket of demand is being filled up. It will pour out in some really good years a few years from now, when the mood changes. In the US, people bounce back. That will happen this time too. For anyone still in business (manufacturer or dealer) that pent-up demand will drive a very good year. We just have to find a way to get from here to there.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
#57 D B Cooper Says:
“normally aspirated just means no turbo or supercharger”
Thank You! Haven’t heard this term before and had no idea what it meant.
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
#18
“Isn’t the irony just amazing. Cerberus has more money to put in, but won’t because they know it’s a bad investment. So instead, they get my money which I have no choice but to give. Lovely.”
Cerberus is a PRIVATE investment group. There are many people from the whitehouse in it such as dan quayle. Look it up!
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December 18th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
#46CaptJackSparrow Says:
December 18th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
@Zack henery 36
Dude get a friggin CLUE!
I bought a 2002 Ford Explorer. American right????
WRONG!
My master power window switch went out. pulled it out and it’s labeled “Made in Mexico”. I ordered the new part and it was labeled
“Made in Mexico”.
This is a global economy and all of the big 2.55555 mfgr outside of the US.
Enough with your pathetic bantor.
——————–
Wasn’t there a study done comparing all the cars on US roads, and the car that scored the “least American components” was the Ford Mustang?
Yeah, i dont understand how ppl do not comprehend a global economy. Maybe if they just put little American flag on it, it will make people feel better?
Also, how do you break it down.. assembly, parts, raw materials, engineering, sales… those pieces come from everywhere and in different weights. I guess its the piecie you care most about that allows you to determine if a car is “American Made” to you.
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December 18th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
#41 HyperMiler Says:
President Bush steered toward bankruptcy option. GM and Chrysler are now heading toward bankruptcy.
Bye Bye, Volt.
======================================================
Let’s not totally write the Volt off yet, it may survive in the bankruptcy. It certainly won’t be here in 2012 though. Only time will tell. The automobile industry has to start moving towards electrification in some form (PHEV or BEV) and the Volt already has a lot of the work completed (if we believe what we have heard from GM). I’m still hoping we’ll see it sometime.
NPNS
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December 18th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Statik@24
Please tell me that that post isn’t your “positive” post present (g).
Oh, and in terms of “It drives me crazy” —- more like a putt (hehe)
Be well,
Tag
LJGTVWOTR!! NPNS
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December 18th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Zack henery,
STFU. People buy what they like…just like you. Who are you to criticize anyone for buying this or that. Your comment about people that buy non-american cars simply because they want to be cool is f’ing ridiculous. When you start coming to work for me a few hours a day, then and only then can you have a say as to where my money goes.
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December 18th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
I think the Volt has a LOT of momentum going. It has gotten a lot of good publicity. The Volt is kind of a “grass roots movement”. It’s going to happen one way or another. There would probably be several MILLION people around the world who would be VERY ticked off if the Volt somehow got delayed a year or two or was cancelled. The Volt is a very good idea … whose time IS coming.
When you see a bunch of America’s best companies coming together to get advanced battery manufacturing established here in America, it’s a very good sign.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122957206516817419.html
If they model this advanced battery consortium after Sematech, it ought to be pretty darned successful. The U.S. semiconductor industry is strong today because of it. Intel, Texas Instruments, AMD, and others all benefited from Sematech.
Because of the Volt and the experience gained by the Volt design team, GM is well positioned to THE leader in the next generation of electrified cars. I’m sure Ford and maybe Chrysler will be able to benefit a lot as well. Battery technology is probably going to be HUGE in the next 50+ years. America needs to be on the cutting edge in battery tech just like it is with semiconductors now.
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December 18th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
#45 statik says “The Bush administration is seriously considering “orderly” bankruptcy”
#48 jay says “In my opinion, an orderly bankruptcy is the best option”
#56 D B Cooper says “Looks like it’s going to be some kind of bankruptcy for GM and Chrysler at this point.”
There is no such thing as an orderly bankruptcy. It’s a messy judicial process and, as such, moves at the typical judicial glacial pace. For example, it would take months at best to rework or eliminate the union contracts.
Seems that, in order to appease conservatives calling for a bankruptcy, this is simply applying a new label to what has been called a non-bankruptcy bankruptcy. Whatever.
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December 18th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Zack #36.
You made way too general a comment about foreign car buyers. There are millions of them and millions of different reasons they purchase them.
I have owned 28 cars. All but 4 were domestics. The four that weren’t were an old VW Bug I shipped back from overseas while in the Army, a Corolla (the most dependable car by far I have ever owned and I think built in California) and two BMWs, one of which I still use as my daily driver.
Every purchase was made with a thorough evaluation of my needs and the products available at the time. My next car will potentially be a CTS.
So does this mean you hate me too?
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December 18th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Tony – “My next car will potentially be a CTS.”
We supply several of the suspension parts for the CTS; the raw castings come out of Fruitport, MI and the machining and assembly on the control arms and knuckles come out of Port Huron, MI. I can assure you that at least the integrity of these pieces are top notch, as I have personally destroyed a LOT of these castings for testing purposes
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December 18th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Statik…….
How is your son doing, haven’t heard much lately? how bout an update
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December 18th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
GLV
Ever looked at the front of BMW vehicles?
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December 18th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
I vow to build a BEV that recharges from the sun in 3 minutes(without a plug), seats a dozen, is easy to park, goes like a startled cat, and handles like a ufo.
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December 18th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Of course Bush hasn’t moved on the loans yet. It took him two freakin’ months to get boots on the ground in Afghanistan after 9/11. Does anyone really expect actual speed and competence from this guy anymore?
Sorry, I usually am not political in this forum but anyone who holds out hopes for Bush to step up in a constructive manner is crazy. At this point Detroit is just trying to survive until the new administration comes in.
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December 18th, 2008 at 2:44 pm
#46 CaptJack
Last time I looked (just now) all of the continents in the Western Hemisphere has “America” attached to it. North Central South AMERICA. Hell, even Mexico is considered North America – Central Amer. begins with Belize and Guatemala. Therefore, technically, they are American.
Made in USA is different. Just because something is American does not mean it is made in the US, and America is not just the US.
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December 18th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Regarding the made-in-USA vs made-in-Mexico vs Made-in-Japan debate … below is my understanding. Please correct me if I’m wrong.
It doesn’t matter so much the geographic location of where the product/part is made. What matters MORE is which company and government benefits (as in profit and taxes) from its ultimate sale in the US.
So ranked from good-to-bad from the perspective of a US citizen who buys it…
A US car/part made in the USA is GREAT for the USA.
A US car/part made in Mexico is GOOD for the USA.
A Japanese car/part made in the US is BAD for the USA.
A japanese car/part made in Japan is REALLY-BAD for the USA.
Since most cars are a hodge-podge (except for japanese cars which are mostly all Japanese), the debate never gets resolved. However one thing is certain…
For the last 50 years, the GREAT and GOOD have gradually been displaced by the BAD and REALLY-BAD. And for the last 20 years, its been happening scary-fast. That’s one reason why the US economy is such a mess.
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December 18th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
I have not read past post #49 And the thought of a post many before 49 is stuck in my head. I do not hate the UAW and have no ill will regarding what they got in the past. The problem is that during good times you Give them something and then during bad times [like NOW] you can not get it back. Trying to get a major concession from the UAW in order to save the industry is like trying to stick your hand in the mouth of a great white to remove a hook stuck in its gills and is killing it.
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December 18th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Doesn’t Bush or the Senate Republicans get it?…The word “bankruptcy” is NOT good for an auto company because of the long term commitment by consumers. It is already having an adverse effect on the industry. This culture is driven by images, symbols, logos, and words. It judges only what it sees.
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December 18th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
#69 Casey
Statik…….
How is your son doing, haven’t heard much lately? how bout an update
==================================
Thanks for your concern Casey.
He is doing much better now. He is still sick…but just your basic, cough and cold now, which I am more than happy to deal with. No more 105+ temperature and constant whimpering…I don’t handle that well at all.
I’m glad everything is back to normal for Christmas, the little fella is going to get spoiled big time this year.
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December 18th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
#68 D B Cooper Says:
December 18th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Tony – “My next car will potentially be a CTS.”
We supply several of the suspension parts for the CTS; the raw castings come out of Fruitport, MI and the machining and assembly on the control arms and knuckles come out of Port Huron, MI. I can assure you that at least the integrity of these pieces are top notch, as I have personally destroyed a LOT of these castings for testing purposes
—————
Those castings are most likely made on our equipment which is also made in Michigan, and the Cadillac CTS itself is assembled in Lansing Michigan.. i’m seeing a pattern..
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December 18th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Noel Park @42 & Statik @43: I agree…there are some mighty fine singers from Canada, I even liked Doug and Bob, “whoa, take off eh!” Lol. And, I agree, the old-fashioned way of finding talent has it’s advantages… My ex loves American Idol…could be why she’s my ex…
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December 18th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Dave K. =D~ @39 & jeffhre @70: So, we agree that the Volt looks like another car…I haven’t seen one in person, but I thought the pictures reminded me of the ones of the Mailbu. You both say it looks like a Beemer… Well, kewl, I wouldn’t mind owning a car that looks like a Beemer and is priced like an American car! /grin/
Of course, the question is becomming more and more, IF we get to drive a Beemer look-a-like….or if we’ll have to settle for a blue Beemer… /frown/
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December 18th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
#74 Paul-R says “A japanese car/part made in Japan is REALLY-BAD for the USA.”
======================================
With greatest respect, I disagree. Global trade is good for everybody. We buy things from them. They buy things from us. Japan buys a great deal from the US. Trade does not have to be in balance at every moment for it to be mutually beneficial. The most obvious benefit to ordinary people in the USA is lower prices and a greater selection.
It is easy to focus on what is “lost” without thinking about what is gained. There are many many jobs in the US that are critically dependent on products that US companies sell outside the USA. We just don’t hear about them as much, as they do not have the same political firepower, but they are real, too.
A risk in a situation like the one at present is that everybody becomes protectionist, trying to protect their own little world. That was tried in the 30s, and it didn’t work. We have to stay cool and think about the situation, as well as feel bad about what’s happening.
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December 18th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
People buy cars based on their needs and the price, not out of some analysis of who benefits on a global economic scale. When it comes down to it they care about their money situation and their family. Period.
We own a Hyundai SUV because it was a quality low priced car with a 10 year warranty. We considered many models, but nothing else on the market could match it for what we needed. Location it was made never came into the decision.
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December 18th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Jim in PA Says:
December 18th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Of course Bush hasn’t moved on the loans yet. It took him two freakin’ months to get boots on the ground in Afghanistan after 9/11. Does anyone really expect actual speed and competence from this guy anymore?
Sorry, I usually am not political in this forum but anyone who holds out hopes for Bush to step up in a constructive manner is crazy. At this point Detroit is just trying to survive until the new administration comes in.
===================================================
It’s amazing that everything wrong is Bush’s fault. Now he is responsible for the Big 3 problems. If he had stepped in earlier it would have been Government Intervention into private enterprise. What part have the CEO’s done wrong, if anything? They have known for over 20 years that today was coming and done nothing about it. Bush said he didn’t want the US Taxpayers to pay to bail them out only to have them fail in the near future. As others have said above, we are a part of a Global Economy so we can hardly stay within our country and not be affected by other countries problems. I still think Chapter 11 is the best solution and let the Big 3 work out the problems they helped create. If the UAW doesn’t want to play along with the solution then that is their choice. The Volt was a nice concept that should have started 10 years ago. Had that happened it probably would have been on the road today. 200 Engineers and 40 Designers seems like a lot of pencil pushers to still be working out the final details. Nuff Said Merry Christmas
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December 18th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
On the topic of contempt for the UAW, I’m not sure everyone is aware they are actually talking about up to five groups of people:
1) There are the executives, administrators, bean counters, and lawyers that comprise the International UAW leadership. These are the folks who make all the key UAW decisions, but don’t build anything and never go on strike.
2) Maybe 10% of the UAW membership are destructively loyal to the UAW and usually hate the company they work for.These are the scary folks who eagerly strike, swearing-at and spiting-on the “scabs” that dare cross the line.
3) Maybe 30% of the UAW members have more allegiance to the UAW than their company and willingly do what the UAW instructs. These are the folks who will quietly strike when instructed.
4) Maybe 30% of the UAW members have less allegiance to the UAW than their company but will often do what the UAW instructs. These are the folks who will strike the first day or two, then often cross-the-line if it’s not too scary or their job is at risk.
5) Maybe 30% of the UAW members actually dislike the UAW but are forced to be UAW members regardless. These folks will generally not strike.
Anyway … as folks here direct their anger/hatred at the UAW, they may want to be aware they are (probably) mostly referring to a minority subset of “the UAW”.
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December 18th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Paul-R;
It looks like the 30% in #5 are the are the people I would feel sorry for. The other 70% are the one’s that control the companies and force issues that we eventually pay for.
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December 18th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
#82 BrianJ Says:
When it comes down to it they care about their money situation and their family. Period.
======================================================
Unfortunately, for a lot of people that is true, but for some of us, buying from a U.S.A. manufacturer is the overwhelming factor in our decision. I buy mostly from Ford (I do have a Pontiac for my daughter) because I personally think it is the best thing for this country. I also think they make vehicles that are as good or better than the imports. This is also a form of patriotism. Do I hate you if you own a foreign car? No. You are free to do what you think is best, that is one of the great things about this country. Am I disappointed that a lot of Americans do not even consider the larger impact of their purchases? You bet.
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December 18th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Statik,
Glad to hear that your son is on the mend. Sick kids (or even just very young kids) tend to have a real ripple effect in families. Fortunately, as they get better (or older), things usually settle down. Kids are a blessing at all ages, but that doesn’t always make them fun. (g).
Be well and Merry Christmas,
Tag
LJGTVWOTR!! NPNS
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December 18th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
GM Vs. Toyota Wages And Benefits
By The Associated Press
Manufacturing.Net – December 12, 2008
DETROIT (AP) –Hourly wages for United Auto Workers laborers at General Motors Corp. factories actually are almost equal to those paid by Toyota Motor Corp. at its older U.S. factories, according to the companies. GM says the average UAW laborer makes $29.78 per hour, while Toyota says it pays about $30 per hour.
The difference is in benefits, with the unionized factories having far higher costs.
GM says its total hourly labor costs are now $69 including wages, pensions and health care for active workers, plus the pension and health care costs of more than 432,000 retirees and spouses. Toyota says its total costs are around $48. The Japanese automaker has far fewer retirees and its pension and health care benefits are not as rich as those paid to UAW workers.
The UAW has not been able to organize workers at a Toyota plant in this country; it does represent workers at one joint GM-Toyota plant in Fremont, Calif.
http://www.manufacturing.net/News-GM-Vs-Toyota-Wages-And-Benefits.aspx
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December 18th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
#60 Thom
“Cerberus is a PRIVATE investment group. There are many people from the whitehouse in it such as dan quayle. Look it up!”
================
Agreed. Also there are a number of people who work for the corporation and on the board from previous administrations that are not of the same party as the current administration. What I mean is that you will find many Republicans and Democrats plus Independents and others on every executive committee and board of every major and minor corporation in this nation. Generally a major administration figure, like Snow, will be named to the board of a company to give that company some additional “status” and “pull” in Washington and New York. It happens with every presidential administration and it will continue with the new one coming in January. It is just a fact of life whether we, the average citizen and taxpayer, likes it or not. It wasn’t just invented during the past 7 years and 11 months.
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December 18th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
#71 ThombDbhomb
“I vow to build a BEV that recharges from the sun in 3 minutes(without a plug), seats a dozen, is easy to park, goes like a startled cat, and handles like a ufo.”
===============
When I first read that I thought you said: “…and handles like a Yugo.” I had to do a double take.
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December 18th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
#75 Old Man
“Trying to get a major concession from the UAW in order to save the industry is like trying to stick your hand in the mouth of a great white to remove a hook stuck in its gills and is killing it.”
===================
Well said! Although I can understand the UAW’s position normally, but this is not normal times. The UAW has lived very high on the hog just like the auto company management. It is time they all gave something back. I would be expected to take a pay cut if my company was suffering and it meant that or lose my job. They would give me two choices. One, accept the pay cut and hope for better times when the pay may be restored and two, quit and go try to find a better job. There are not that many better jobs in my area of expertise at this time.
At this junction, I have absolutely no sympathy for the UAW and its members. I don’t have any for the management team at GM, Ford and Chrysler, either.
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December 18th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
#88 D’Artagnon Says:
The UAW has not been able to organize workers at a Toyota plant in this country; it does represent workers at one joint GM-Toyota plant in Fremont, Calif.
————-
Yeah, that’s the Nummi plant. We bid on a 1.2 million dollar project for them that just recently became shelved. I dont think anyone is allowed to spend any $ right now… even if they have it.
Kinda funny though, they are all still RFQ’ing on million dollar projects.
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December 18th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
#77 Statik
“I’m glad everything is back to normal for Christmas, the little fella is going to get spoiled big time this year.”
———————
Good for you! I am glad he is doing better. I hope you and yours will indeed have a very Merry Christmas. Wish your son our best.
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December 18th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
GM – Ford – Chrysler contributions after 9/11
Nothing needs to be said…
An interesting commentary…You might find this of interest:
‘CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford and GM’s contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington .
The findings are as follows…..
1. Ford- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number plus 10 Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered ER response team services and office space to displaced government employees.
2. GM- $10 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number and a fleet of vans, suv’s, and trucks.
3. Daimler Chrysler- $10 million to support of the children and victims of the Sept. 11 attack.
4. Harley Davidson motorcycles- $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the New York Police Dept.
5. Volkswagen-Employees and management created a Sep t 11 Foundation, funded initially with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and victims of the WTC.
6. Hyundai- $300,000 to the American Red Cross.
7. Audi- Nothing.
8. BMW- Nothing.
9. Daewoo- Nothing.
10. Fiat- Nothing.
11. Honda- Nothing despite boasting of second best sales month ever in August 2001.
12. Isuzu- Nothing.
13. Mitsubishi- Nothing.
14. Nissan- Nothing.
15. Porsche- Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche website.
16. Subaru- Nothing.
17. Suzuki- Nothing.
18. Toyota- Nothing despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001. Condolences posted on the website
Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep this information in mind. You might want to give more consideration to a car manufactured by an American-owned and/or American based company. Apart from Hyundai and
Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed nothing at all to the citizens of the United States …
It’s OK for these companies to take money out of this country, but it is apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis. I believe we should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets their attention..
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December 18th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
#94 Voltaholic
That was very interesting. Also, worth mentioning is that the Japanese in particular do not allow many American vehicles to be sold in their domestic market. I do not know the status of most of the rest of the automakers you listed, but I suspect American vehicles sold in those countries amount to very low volumes.
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December 18th, 2008 at 5:21 pm
The CTS is the most exciting car I have ever driven. I have driven Porches and BMWs but nothing more exotic. We now drive a Caddy SRX only because my wife and I haul two golden retrievers around everywhere we go.
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December 18th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
are you speaking of the cts v ?
over 500 ponies under the hood
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December 18th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
#79 GLV:
Yeah, I think that we have the old Doug and Bob “12 Days of Christmas” at home somewhere. I’ll have to try to dig it out.
The only lines I can remember at the moment (help me if I’m a bit off):
“On the first day of Christmas my true love gave to me, A BEER, on a pear tree.”
“On the fifth day of Christmas my true love gave to me, five golden touques.”
If I can find it, I’ll quote you some more later. Lucky you! Wasn’t there something about “4 pounds of back bacon”, or some such? Hey guys, I don’t know about you, but I could use a laugh in the face of “organized bankruptcy”, or whatever it is.
#81 RB:
Maybe, but when the negative trade balance is in the 100s of billions of dollars, year after year, the reckoning is surely coming. I heard a guy on NPR about an hour ago taliking about the fact that China now holds $2 TRILLION of our debt.
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December 18th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
@voltaholic 94
Dude, that’s already been a proven hoax.
Nice try.
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/automakers.asp
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December 18th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Jim in PA said … “Of course Bush hasn’t moved on the loans yet. It took him two freakin’ months to get boots on the ground in Afghanistan after 9/11. Does anyone really expect actual speed and competence from this guy anymore?”
No offense, but developing a strategy for and mobilizing a pretty massive war effort takes months. Just like giving birth takes months. These are facts which cannot be changed by anyone’s needs, desires, or disapproval. Heck, after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, it took over 4 months just to plan and execute Doolittle’s raid, and more significant action took longer yet.
And you’re dissing Bush for 2 months?
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December 18th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
bash the uaw if you want when the volt gets built it will be us true blue collar workers here at detriot hamtremack local 22,,drive your jap chap cars the usa cars are the best show me a 1960 or 1970 jap crap that is still around
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December 18th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
RB said … “Global trade is good for everybody. We buy things from them. They buy things from us. Japan buys a great deal from the US. Trade does not have to be in balance at every moment for it to be mutually beneficial. The most obvious benefit to ordinary people in the USA is lower prices and a greater selection.”
Global trade is good provided it’s relatively balanced. But it’s not balanced. In fact, it’s not even close to balanced, and it’s been getting worse (for the USA) for the last ten years. That sucking sound you hear is the sound of wealth leaving the USA at the rate of $800+ billion per year. And that wealth is being replaced by currency (hey, we can print as much as we want), debt to other countries ($2.3 trillion and climbing fast), and fake wealth (like the recently-discovered toxic mortgage assets that triggered this recession and credit crisis).
Too bad most of our politicians don’t seem to care. They’re too busy hyping weather (”Enjoy your Nobel Prize Mr Gore.”), buying sex (”Hello Mr Spitzer.”), selling favors (”This senate seat is BLEAPn gold!”), and pointing fingers (”It’s all Bush’s fault!”).
Meanwhile our US manufacturing base continues its collapse.
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December 19th, 2008 at 5:11 am
Interesting post by Statik (#8). I believe that GM will indeed roll up in a ball for a few months, stop paying it’s bills and starve it’s suppliers and dealers, regardless if that process is overseen by the U.S. government or a bankruptcy judge. The fact is, cars aren’t selling. No sales, no revenue. The question is: who should oversee the auto industry’s collapse; the executive or judiciary branch. My feeling is that the judiciary branch makes more sense. Laws regarding financial default already exist and should be followed, not re-written because of the scope of the problem.
Bankruptcy is not failure. It is an honest admission that you can’t pay your bills and something has to change. It is a difficult and humbling experience but is sometimes necessary. This really sucks… either way, bail out or bankruptcy.
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December 19th, 2008 at 7:14 am
Nothing will stop the Volt project from moving forward, not even Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Engines can be imported from overseas.
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December 19th, 2008 at 8:56 am
#83 Bob McGovern – I never said that any of this was Bush’s fault. I am simply saying don’t expect him to be part of the solution. I think I spoke quite clearly to that end. The unfortunate truth is that he has shown himself to be an unqualified failure who screws up most of what he touches, and his “solution” to this crisis will be no different. That opinion is shared by 80% of America. By the way, how’s that Wall Street bailout coming along?
#100 Paul R – Yes I am dissing Bush for taking two months. With regard to a bailout, you don’t have to think far back to recall that the administration tried to push the Wall Street bailout through Congress in ONE WEEK. That’s because they thought it was important. What we are talking about here is a loan guarantee. It should take one day. With regard to Afghanistan, yes it was pitiful that it took us one-two months to get in because contrary to what you say, it wasn’t a massive war. It was a small concerted effort by special ops and air power to provide support to the Northern Alliance ground troops to push out the Taliban. It’s that OTHER boondoggle of ours that is the massive war. I do forgive FDR a bit more for taking time to attack Japan, given that Pearl Harbor virtually decimated our entire Pacific Fleet. Not a very analogous situation in my opinion.
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December 19th, 2008 at 8:59 am
To all you folks here (in the minority unfortunately) who are shocked by the hatred of the UAW, so am I. On the Left there are a lot of liberal elitists who hate blue collar workers, and on the Right there are a lot of AM radio listening dimwits who actually believe that GM line workers make $72/hr and that unions = socialism. That just leaves us sane working folks in the middle to shake our heads in amazement. The ignorance and anger towards the UAW is pretty shocking. Japanese car companies would also have huge legacy costs back home in Japan except the government picks up much of the tab there. By the way, Japanese auto plants in Japan are unionized, as are German workers in German plants. Their “superior business model” is centered on government assistance in the form of R&D funding and pension/healthcare benefits.
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December 19th, 2008 at 9:16 am
#102 Paul R – Obviously you and I are at opposite ends of the political spectrum but it sounds like we are fairly simpatico with regard to American industrial issues. When you start talking about the demise of American manufacturing, many on the Right and Left just don’t get what a tragedy it is in terms of economics and national security. I think you will find that the people who share our opinion on this matter are spread all across the political spectrum with regard to other issues. I hope to god that Detroit pulls through.
In defense of fairness, however, your list of deviant politicians was notable devoid of Republicans. Let me help round that list out for you by saying that Spitzer’s fling with a hooker looks like the model of American decency when compared to Republican congressmen whose scandals have involved underage male Congressional pages, male prostitutes, being put in a diaper by a dominatrix, and hustling BJs in an airport restroom, just to name a few… There is plenty of blame (and church confessional time) to go around and both parties share in the blame.
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December 19th, 2008 at 10:00 am
http://www.uwsa.com/issues/trade/japanyes.html
big read but interesting…I havce witnessed this in my travels there firsthand
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December 19th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
I am a huge fan of the Volt not only for it’s efficiency and ability to run without gasoline, but also because it is supposed to be made in the U.S.!
I have been waiting over 10 years for an ultra-efficient, domestically made vehicle and GM is finally so close to addressing that need. I can deal with the Volt’s higher than projected price and the less aggressive new look, and I also don’t care whether the U.A.W. is involved, but it absolutely must be made in the U.S. I will not comprimise on that and may not ever buy another car until I find that.
“Made in the U.S.” is absolutely essential to me!
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