CNET has just published an article emphasizing the importance of community resources in wide scale launching of the Chevy Volt and other electric cars.
Interviewed is GM’s Volt vehicle line director Tony Posawatz who was by the way also was recently elected co-chairman of the Electric Drive Transportation Association (EDTA).
Tony not only is building the Volt but plays a leading role in developing a nationwide electric car rollout plan.
He explained the importance of community to the Volt’s success. He said “we are looking at communities that exist that are willing to put all the pieces together. To me, the Volt is a remarkable product. But, if the other stuff–the communities, etc.–isn’t there, then we run the risk of failing.”
The article implies that GM may actually target the Volt launch to places in the country where such community exists, referring to buy-in from local utilities and municipalities to ensure there are incentives to buy electric cars and places to charge them.
There already exists a legislated federal tax credit of $7500 that will go to future Volt buyers. Additional local incentives mentioned in the article is for example encouraging communities to install charging stations.
Coulomb Technology’s smart charging station or Smartlet is given as an example of this. These charging stations interact wirelessly with utility companies to ensure car charging doesn’t strain daytime peak demand.
It has already been documented in a study that a 60% penetration of electric vehicles to the national automotive fleet will only result in a 7% to 8% increase in electric demand. If that occurs at nighttime, then no additional capacity will have to be placed online. However, carelessly adding this demand during daytime peak hours would necessitate the construction of dozens of additional US power plants.
It is also noted that no technical standard has yet been written and accepted for the process of rapid charging. At 240 V, the Volt will recharge in 3 hours as opposed to 6 hours at 120 V.
Posawatz amusingly imagines the day when a new Volt Geek Squad industry emerges whose service is to go out and put 240V charging boxes in peoples garages.
Source (CNET)
This entry was posted on Wednesday, December 17th, 2008 at 7:46 am and is filed under Charging, Grid. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Dec 17th, 2008 (7:55 am)So if my community puts a bunch of 240 charging stations next to parking meters we can be the first to get a volt? If you can charge at home overnight and have 40 AER every day I guess I really don’t see the point in having charging stations all over the place. To me that only makes sense with a true BEV. The whole reason for getting a volt over a BEV is unlimited range
Dec 17th, 2008 (7:56 am)Its refreshing to see a good ole’ nuts and bolts Volt article again, even if this financial crisis isn’t over yet.
Dec 17th, 2008 (7:56 am)That’s an important focus for rolling out vehicles, but not one of immediate importance to the Volt introduction. That vehicle will mostly be charged at “home base” and so a built up infrastructure won’t be necessary.
Later full on BEVs will need such a system, though. Good forward planning.
Dec 17th, 2008 (8:00 am)I guess if worse comes to worse, I can always plug it in in my garage.
I agree with #1 Gsned57. I don’t see the point too clearly either.
At least not for everyday travel.
Dec 17th, 2008 (8:02 am)“There already exists a legislated federal tax credit of $7500 that will go to future Volt buyers. Additional local incentives mentioned in the article is for example encouraging communities to install charging stations”.
Nice, first we bail out GM, then we have to subsidize the purchase of the product, then we need to modernize the infrastructure. What a waste of taxpayers cash!
Dec 17th, 2008 (8:11 am)Does the $7500 tax credit apply to the BYD vehicle?
Dec 17th, 2008 (8:32 am)The first place that these roll out charging stations could be practical would be at motels, hotels, convention centers, work place, apartment/condo residents,and amusment parks.
Dec 17th, 2008 (8:33 am)#6 John Smith
Does the $7500 tax credit apply to the BYD vehicle?
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Yes, if there is any left by then.
Dec 17th, 2008 (8:36 am)IMO charging stations in the beginning will not be a problem. In my household which is typical we will have the Volt for the commuter car and the around town car, but will still have an ICE car for trips. If EV’s get to the market place then the infrastructure will follow.
Dec 17th, 2008 (8:39 am)It is so dangerous when the visionless prognosticate the evolution or revolution in industries.
It would be auto dealerships, who partner with the right utilities, that would install home charging systems, as the point of sale would occur at autodealerships, not Best Buy or Circuit City.
Dec 17th, 2008 (8:43 am)Any electrician can put a 220 plug in your garage, and then you plug it in. This is not rocket science.
Dec 17th, 2008 (8:50 am)5. THOM
Nice, first we bail out GM, then we have to subsidize the purchase of the product, then we need to modernize the infrastructure. What a waste of taxpayers cash!
________________________________________________________
I’d say any infastructure we build here is going to be a bargain if you compare it to the amount of money we spend on securing oil in the middle east.
1. and 3.
I also don’t see the need for so much infastructure to be built even if we are talking about a BEV. It seems if most BEV’s get the range of the Tesla roadster I don’t see people driving it on long distance trips anyway. If I’m visiting family across the state then I’ll plug in at their house.
Personally I would rather have a EREV over a BEV in the mid term at least until I can charge my car from wind, solar or hydro from my house. I’m thinking if we have a power outage it would be nice to still be able to drive somewhere and have the flexability.
Dec 17th, 2008 (8:52 am)And Geek Squad folk are generally not qualified to put in a 240 volt outlet. It should be done by a licensed and insured electrician. A half ass job will burn your house down because this circuit will haul some current and high current and bad connections equal fires.
PS – It only takes a timing circuit to avoid the two daily peaks in electrical demand, nothing more. Costs $59 at Lowe’s. See water heater timers. Or if someone must get sexy, then adapt a device like a programmable thermostat. Gives users the option of sometimes charging during unusual circumstances while normally charging off-peak. Let’s be real.
Dec 17th, 2008 (8:59 am)Actually, a rudimentary understanding of electricity is all that is needed to run a 240V 30 amp outlet to your garage. The only costly part will be the length of 10 gauge wire that you need. The breakers and actual outlets are not real expensive.
I understand that most people would be afraid to run the circuit themselves, but just have an electrical friend help you and it would not take much time or money. Its gonna beat paying for the Geek Squad!
I ran one for my camper and my next project is to wire up a generator…..
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:07 am)I thought with the volt you would be able to program it to charge at off peak times.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:07 am)What is Mr Posawatz up to?
He gins up a non-problem and then explains that its solution is critical to success with the Volt, so they will only go to places that are (?) card-carrying members of his society? have metered electric outlets installed (?) have wireless access to the power company (?)
It really sounds like a bundle of excuses about why no Volts are to be delivered to anywhere other than his few favorite places.
He and GM would do better to build the Volt and let customers and dealers worry about their own issues.
LJGTVWOTR!
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:11 am)What the hell am I reading?
” … we are looking at communities that exist that are willing to put all the pieces together … But, if the other stuff–the communities, etc.–isn’t there, then we run the risk of failing.”
If the Volt can’t be charged from a standard household power outlet you fail.
Has this charger been part of the plan all along or did I miss this at some point?
My understanding was the that the Volt would be chargeable by standard household current, no special charger necessary.
You’ve got to make it as easy as plugging in a lamp if you want mass acceptance, the design team knows this. I’m not a designer or a marketer and even I know this.
Whats with the hippie talk?
“But, if the other stuff–the communities, etc.–isn’t there, then we run the risk of failing”.
Oh noooooo what will happen if hippies don’t buy the Volt?
All Volt’s should come from the factory with a pre-installed self destruct mechanism that can only be triggered from GM Corporate HQ in Detroit.
This would be just in case they are’nt successful in destroying the car before bringing it to market, they’ll have a back-up to ensure complete annihilation of the product, only as a last resort of course.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:12 am)Get a building permit and have the work done according to code by a licensed electrician. But no need to have your wiring modified before you buy an electrically driven vehicle. Household voltage is sufficient for recharging PHEV’s with an AER of less than 40 miles like the Volt.
However, I expect the next generation will have an AER of about 70 miles, and 220 V recharging will become the standard.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:13 am)I wonder if the Volt will have an idiot switch in it to keep people from inadvertently driving away while still plugged into the wall. While it may be entertaining to see someone driving down the road with an outlet dangling from the front of their car, it would probably not be so great for the new electric vehicle image.
D
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:14 am)“It has already been documented in a study that a 60% penetration of electric vehicles to the national automotive fleet will only result in a 7% to 8% increase in electric demand.”
Question:
1) At a rate of 200,000 new ev’s each year, how many years would it take to reach 60% penetration and what changes will the national grid see during that time?
2) Is this something we should even be worried about right now? Example: Is it like worring about (a) the sun going supernova, (b) the moon spiriling out of orbit or (c) the Borg “collective” (socialists) assimilating the planet?
Any takers?
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:20 am)Part of the reason to pay over $30,000 for the Volt is the ease of recharge. Just plug it into your standard household outlet. Use a long orange extension cord if you like. Make sure you have 2 or three gallons of gasoline on board and you’re set.
If you choose to buy a full EV Mazda then some sort of community charge box network would be wanted.
NRCLNS
No Rich Corinthian Leather, No Sale
=D~
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:27 am)Why is there a need for a Geek Squad. In many communities you will need a certified electrician to put the line in for you, are all these Geek Squad people going to be certified?
Also for many of us it would be cheaper to go to Lowes and buy the stuff ourselves to put the electrical in place for charging our cars. That is assuming you know what to do.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:34 am)Any data on what percentage of cars are parked in garages versus parked on the street? I suspect most people will want to charge while they are parked at work since they don’t have a garage. Work places will be installing metered charging stations in their parking lots (swipe your credit card?) but this will mean lots of charging during the day rather than at night….
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:35 am)Considering GM’s “HALO” strategy, the bigger and brighter the halo for a given dollar amount, the better for GM. We could reasonably expect them to pursue that strategy. More HALO / $ = goodness.
For that reason, it would make sense for GM to concentrate on selling Volts in these areas if it creates additional buzz. Plus, by focusing on a fewer areas, you reduce your dealership training costs, and maybe can use it as a bargaining chip with the dealers.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:37 am)#18 Van
I believe Lutz said the Volt 2.0 would focus on cheaper, more rugged batteries. Not extended AER. Open to correction here though.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:38 am)Did anyone notice in yesterday’s article that Lyle said the engine would recharge the battery? That bad piece of information just won’t die.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:38 am)No, the Volt doesn’t “need” public charging boxes. But it would be nice. Many have said that the EREV is a ‘bridge’ to pure EVs, by providing a market for the batteries which will need to ramp up further for the engine-less car. It may be possible to carry some other components of the BEV future over that bridge (like public charging infrastructure).
I believe that even with a strong public charging infrastructure, there will always be a good market for EREVs; for occasional long haul travel, with in-town benefits (what most people want). A typical garage in 20 years may contain both a BEV and an EREV.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:41 am)How about state and local support in the form of no-cost permits and inspections of electrical installations for charging cars?
Many areas require this and many home insurance companies do also. In many areas a licensed master electrician is required by law. Being a small job it can be very difficult to get, then expensive to pay for, such work, and the least our governments should do is pledge not to raise that cost further, and not to use the addition of the outlet as a basis for raising the assessed value of the home.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:42 am)#19 Wonkothesane
I wonder if the Volt will have an idiot switch in it to keep people from inadvertently driving away while still plugged into the wall. While it may be entertaining to see someone driving down the road with an outlet dangling from the front of their car, it would probably not be so great for the new electric vehicle image.
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Hopefully the Volt will be programmed not to start if it is plugged in. This would make sense but with GM lately nothing makes sense.
You know, Ford replaced Bill Ford as CEO a year or two ago and they are the only ones not needing a bailout.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:43 am)Cautious Fan-
The engine doesn’t recharge the battery. It can apply a charge to it once depletion point is met mainly to keep it at that depletion point. For example, there may be driving moments when the depletion point has to be breached. Primarily the generator is used to make electricity to drive the electric motor.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:44 am)“But, if the other stuff–the communities, etc.–isn’t there, then we run the risk of failing.”
We got us a little community right here at GM-Volt.com,, Send us Volts.
Also, I wouldn’t mind having charging stations around town. I’d rather use electricity than gas. Are charging stations that expensive to put in?
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:46 am)#17 Guy
All Volt’s should come from the factory with a pre-installed self destruct mechanism that can only be triggered from GM Corporate HQ in Detroit.
=========================
GM triggers the self destruct and you hear a grinding noise out in your garage. EV1 for Hummer… Way to go Rick “NOW I GET IT” Waggoner.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:52 am)#13 Shawn
PS – It only takes a timing circuit to avoid the two daily peaks in electrical demand, nothing more. Costs $59 at Lowe’s. See water heater timers. Or if someone must get sexy, then adapt a device like a programmable thermostat. Gives users the option of sometimes charging during unusual circumstances while normally charging off-peak. Let’s be real.
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I remember reading in an eariler thread that you plug in your Volt and you set the charge times on the Volt console. So the Volt is plugged in but not charging until the Volts programming allows it.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:56 am)It seems to me that 240-volt, 3-hour chargers would only be useful during the day. At night, most people would be content to wait six hours for their car to be charged. If that is so, then there is a contradictory message here. On the one hand, GM says it wants to assure that people recharge their Volts at night so that no new electric generating stations are required. On the other hand, it says that 240-volt, 3-hour chargers throughout a community are a necessity — apparently for daytime charging. Can anyone explain this?
Dec 17th, 2008 (10:01 am)I have never known of a requirement of getting a permit to install a single new circuit in a home. Unless that is some local regulation.
And don’t forget to put that new circuit on a GFCI breaker. It will be in the garage, with water on the floor from rain and melting snow….
But unless I see the need for quick charging, I am going with 120 volts in the beginning. After all, it can charge overnight.
All this is moot, until we know where the first Volts will be sold! The last I remember, GM was going with a “limited release area” for the first year’s production run. If that has changed, I will call the owner of the local Chevy dealership today, and start asking him to get in line for a delivery of the first cars off the assembly line!!
Oh wait: There is no assembly line yet………
Isn’t this all a bit premature???? Does anyone know if any work is being done at the GM Hamtrack plant to prepare for production?
Dec 17th, 2008 (10:02 am)I am absolutely fine with using the standard 110 outlet at night in my garage. I’m not driving while i sleep, so there is no major rush to charge in 2-3 hours.
Bummer, I always thought the rapid charge would be a 220 Volt plug, as I have 3 of those in my garage.
Please don’t insult the Volt by mentioning “Geek Squad” those tards are the equivalent of the Dominoes Pizza of electronics delivery.
Dec 17th, 2008 (10:03 am)#29 Brad G
Hopefully the Volt will be programmed not to start if it is plugged in. This would make sense but with GM lately nothing makes sense.
You know, Ford replaced Bill Ford as CEO a year or two ago and they are the only ones not needing a bailout.
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I would like to think so, but if they do that, how am I going to strap an extra high capacity UPS to my Volt to eek-out those few extra all-electric miles?
Dec 17th, 2008 (10:26 am)I also found it a bit strange to stress charging stations in the home (like posts # 11,13, 14, 17, 18, 22). All you need is a properly installed standard 220 right? Or is this article telling us they are planning the need of additional hardware to charge the vehicle not just a standard outlet? That would be a real shame.
Dec 17th, 2008 (10:33 am)Your Garage is probably wired for 110. So you need to upgrade to 220. And if you do not want to charge during peak hours then you would need a special outlet. At least that’s my guess
Dec 17th, 2008 (10:39 am)The market place will drive charging stations in communities around the nation , guys and gals that like to make money I can in-vision a charge station that looks like a parking meter ,swipe your card and go shopping , work , gym etc… So all you inventors out their get to WORK !
Dec 17th, 2008 (10:57 am)Why wouldn’t I drive home, plug the car in and begin charging immediately? Suppose I thought I might go out again at 9:00pm?
What’s my incentive to charge only after midnight?
The fact that there’s no incentive for me to do otherwise than simply plug in and start charging is going to work to the power company’s disadvantage. Posawatz understands this but it’s not really his problem and he’s making meaningless reassuring noises to the power companies… which is why Posawatz also doesn’t seem to be making much sense.
There’s going to be at least a few Volt owners who screw up their clocks and set the car to charge from 12:00 NOON to 8:00PM. After a while, they’ll realize their mistake but there will be considerable confusion and probably some extra trips to the dealer to figure out why the car is burning so much gas and the battery never fills up.
How many VCRs and microwave ovens are blinking 12:00 at this very moment? Those same people are the target market for Volts.
Dec 17th, 2008 (11:02 am)As others have already stated, I don’t see the immediate need for charging stations all around the city for the Volt. Later on when we have fully electric vehicles (BEV), there will certainly be a need. I suppose a Volt owner who is completely opposed to using any petroleum and commutes far enough where the Volt would use gasoline to get back home may want to charge up before going home. That would keep the Volt off gasoline. I don’t see a problem with using a little gasoline or other fuel occasionally. You need to to that some anyway to keep the ICE operating properly and get rid of old fuel in the tank.
But, build the charging infrastructure slowly and I am sure people will feel more comfortable about buying BEVs. That’s what we want. People buying a BEV for around town and short trips and a Volt for extended trips.
Dec 17th, 2008 (11:13 am)#1 Gsned57 Says:
December 17th, 2008 at 7:55 am
So if my community puts a bunch of 240 charging stations next to parking meters we can be the first to get a volt? If you can charge at home overnight and have 40 AER every day I guess I really don’t see the point in having charging stations all over the place. To me that only makes sense with a true BEV. The whole reason for getting a volt over a BEV is unlimited range
—————–
What if you dont have a plug at home? (say you live in an apartment or park in a parking deck) A charging station is a good option then.
Dec 17th, 2008 (11:16 am)#41 charlie h Says:
December 17th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Why wouldn’t I drive home, plug the car in and begin charging immediately? Suppose I thought I might go out again at 9:00pm?
What’s my incentive to charge only after midnight?
————
Electricity rates (if they vary where you live). The more PHEV’s we see, the more this may become reality everywhere.
Dec 17th, 2008 (11:16 am)Please people- read up on Volt technology before posting misinformation!
Let me sum up:
Volt Battery Facts
120V recharge- 6 hours — timing regulated by the onboard Volt computer
240V – 3 hrs (It is not that hard or that expensive to get a 240V outlet in a garage, but it is *not at all necessary* and I’ll wager most people won’t bother with 240V and won’t ever need it- even if they do, enter range extender.)
In order to maintain 10year/150,000 mile battery life with constant performance and range (Try getting this warranty on any other car battery- for instance the $110,000 Tesla Roader only has 5 years)…
Full battery charge= 80% of full battery capacity (this is when you will often hear the engineers say the battery is at 100% charge or maximum charge, but they don’t mean that in the strictest sense)
Minimum charge= 30% of full battery capacity (often called the depletion point, 0% charge, etc.) This is when the range extender (gasoline motor), kicks in to recharge the battery. Not clear whether onstar will allow you to deplete a bit below this if you are almost home, etc.
And the biggie…
40 miles AER in average driving conditions!!
Quibble all you want about your own special conditions, but this is what it will be for *average* conditions. For instance, the heater will be all-electric so blasting it will presumably drain the battery to less than 40 miles, but luckily I live in Southern California so I have trouble caring about all this babbling about some alleged thing called “winter”. Conversely, people in climates meant for human habitation will probably get more than 40 miles. This is why it is called an average value
Oh yeah, some other points:
Price- low 30ks after $7,500 tax rebate, not accounting for the likely scenario that it will be subsidized even more by the next admin (not that I think this is a great policy)
Seats 4 comfortably.
Styling- Stop whining about the change from concept to production. It is sooo much nicer-looking than most BEVs or Hybrids I’ve seen (ok, excluding the expensive ones like the Tesla Roadster). Seriously, compare this to a Prius.
and the biggie..
Price will plummet over time! The next E-REV will have a cheaper, lighter battery with the same range as the Volt, and eventually AER will increase over 40 miles (but since this covers 80% of US commutes and a much larger percentage of foreign commutes, GM will no doubt focus on driving down cost and battery size first).
Dec 17th, 2008 (11:31 am)ccombs @ 45
From everything that I have read / learned about the Volt…I agree with all you’ve stated, except the part about the ICE charging the battery at the customer depletion point (30%).
The ICE will actually drive the generator that drives the wheels.
This is a major item for the Volt. It works similar to the way locomotives work.
GM does not want to charge the battery with gasoline, it defeats the purpose.
Dec 17th, 2008 (11:37 am)Charging stations are a good idea California put them in for the EV-1 etc. It would also be great if all the electric car manufacturers could come up with a universal plug so you wouldn’t have to go looking for a station that would work for your particular car.
Some GOOD NEWS president of Honda Takeo Fukui (yes thats his real name) and it is appropriate my Honda was JUNK reports profits are down 62 per cent, so this goes to show NO ONE IS BUYING CARS, and Toyota has rolled back there plans for new plants in Missippi.
Dec 17th, 2008 (11:37 am)With the plug just in front of the drivers door, how could anyone drive off without unpluging? (Blonds can not drive this vehicle) ;>)
I could see someone tripping over the cord more then forgetting to unplug.
Dec 17th, 2008 (12:14 pm)Anyone catch that the factory building the Volt’s engine is putting the engine on hold?
http://www.cnbc.com/id/28279245/for/cnbc/
Dec 17th, 2008 (12:17 pm)45. ccombs,
“40 miles AER in average driving conditions!!”
I believe the quote is “Up to 40 miles”. “Average” has never been promised.
I think “better than average” is more like it. For example, you will probably never get 40 on the highway. Also, I understand why you don’t care about “Winter”, but I assume you do care about “AC”.
Dec 17th, 2008 (12:17 pm)I will be content with a 6 hour charge time until they are able to do it in 20 minutes. Of course to recharge the battery in 20 minutes will require a second battery in the garage that is chargeing when ever power is available (most likely turned on and off by the utility co in exchange for a really good rate).
I would be interested in a design competion on rapid charging from a second battery – likely that is the only way to get really rapid charges on the road.
Dec 17th, 2008 (12:21 pm)@WonkoTheSane 19
This is where the guy called “Electriciti”‘s idea would come in handy.
Althoug not exactly as he suggested on direct contact, it was suggested that induction coils function as a charger to the car. This would work especially in the garage.
When you pull into the garage, you’re parking over a transformer coil an an onboard induction coil induces the energy from the transformer coil. This would be similar to the old Ford Ranger EV charging plate but instead of inserting it, you park over it.
Something to make you go hmmmmm….
Dec 17th, 2008 (12:23 pm)It opens up the Volt market to those in condo’s and apartments, where you park outside or in a garage with no plug available.
Plus, they would be great at work. The Volt can be charged up in the morning and not use up precious peak time power. It then extends the Volts range to 80 miles!
Free (if validated with a store ticket) at Shopping Centers sounds great too.
This stuff is coming. It’s just a matter of who does it.
=D~~~~
Dec 17th, 2008 (12:36 pm)#1 Gsned57
“The whole reason for getting a volt over a BEV is unlimited range”
’nuff said. Apparently Tony forgot what makes the Volt superior to Tesla, Zenn and other “community” electrics.
To counter the point that Lyle is making, having charging stations at your work would be adding power demand during peak hours (at least for the vast majority of Americans–yes majority rules 80% of US who drive less than 40 miles is Volt target). Why is it peak power demand? Because everyone is at work! Don’t add to the problem with charging stations, no matter how smart they are intended to be. That’s just stupid.
In unique situations, such as GM plants in the peak, where they have a third shift, then automakers & power companies should put together incentives for the employees and businesses to buy and charge during these off-peak hours at work. This wouldn’t be community-wide, though.
GM, god bless ‘em, didn’t get to where they are with sound logic and forward-thinking strategy. If GM leadership honestly thinks that the Volt, of all cars, hinges success on having a power meter at the DMV, no amount of money will save this company.
Dec 17th, 2008 (12:37 pm)GM putting the Volt project on hold… No problem, maybe I can use the docking stations to power up my shuttle craft.
Beam me up Scotty.
Haven’t any of you guys noticed that even T. Boone Pickens has lost billions in the past few months on his wind to electric project and the US Toyota Prius plant has been put on hold due to diminishing sales. The Volt is DOA.
Dec 17th, 2008 (12:50 pm)Ken @ 55,
Got a better idea for getting us off petro? Let’s here it. Otherwise, time to find another place to troll.
Dec 17th, 2008 (12:56 pm)Gee, I think I’ll stop at the recharge station on my way home from work for 3 hours. Or maybe while I’m out running errands at Wal-Mart and Costco I’ll stop for 3 hours at the recharge station…there is no point in having recharge stations for the Volt. If they can get the recharge time down to 15 minutes or less, then what he’s saying makes sense.
I’m surprised no one has mentioned this, but don’t most dryers use 240V outlets? Most of us already have them (like myself), it would just be a matter of unplugging the dryers and plugging in the Volt if you really needed to leave in 3 hours instead of 6 (I’m sure that will happen so often). I’ve heard that the Volts will use about as much charge as a refrigerator when charging so I think Tim #20′s post is accurate that worrying about whether the grid can handle Volt’s charge demand is on par with worrying about the sun running out of hydrogen.
As for the “swipe your card” recharge parking lots at the mall, I would think with electricity being so cheap, you’re talking about maybe $.50-$.75 per charge they could probably just do it as an incentive to come there. It would make sense to have something you could put quarters in since most credit card companies charge the vendor more than that just to use the card.
Dec 17th, 2008 (12:57 pm)Ken #55 says,
The Volt is DOA.
————
That is pretty strong unless the D stands for Delayed.
Dec 17th, 2008 (1:20 pm)@ #49
———–
From the article
“there is plenty of time to build the plant, install equipment and get it up and running in time to produce engines for the two new cars. The company already makes the 1.4-liter engine at a plant in Austria, she said, giving it another option for engines.
“We have lots of options. The construction of the new plant is not going to interrupt our plans for the Volt or Cruze,” Basel said.
Dec 17th, 2008 (1:57 pm)#53 George K:
I think that you make a very important point. If I had a Volt, or any EV, I would certainly want to charge it at work and drive home on the battery.
Now that you mention it, I believe that the “peak” here in SoCal, even on the hottest summer days, is from sometime around noon until 6:00 or 7:00 PM. So one could charge in the AM without forcing the need for more power plants.
I guess that might vary around the country but, if the utilities work with the car suppliers and owners, it ought to be possible to work around the worst of the peaks.
Of course if Thomas Friedman’s “smart grid” comes to pass, all of this will be automatic. Maybe we can get to work at 8:00 AM, charge ’til noon, and then sell the power back to the grid and make money! LOL? I dunno.
Dec 17th, 2008 (2:06 pm)#59 k-dawg:
Good point. One would think that they could source 10,000 engines for the first year from Austria with no strain. I dunno where the special generator housing/driveline parts would come from, but I sense that there is plenty of capacity somewhere.
As Statik reported that the European market is now swooning, maybe they can source engines from there for quite awhile before it really becomes a problem for the Volt. As to the Cruze, who knows?
Kind of like Toyota delaying the Mississippi Prius plant.
Dec 17th, 2008 (2:21 pm)One thing I have always told myself is that if I buy the Volt or any BEV/EV, I will by a set of solar panels to charge at 110v for the Volt/BEV/EV. My intention is to not use “Grid” power at all.
An 800W solar panel set can generate 5.2Kw/h in 6.5hrs and in CA, we get sun most of the year at more than 8hrs. Store the energy in good ol cheal lead acid car batteries and your good to go to charge.
Carbon footprint = almost 0
But that’s just me being cheap.
Dec 17th, 2008 (2:40 pm)#60 noel park
“Of course if Thomas Friedman’s “smart grid” comes to pass, all of this will be automatic. Maybe we can get to work at 8:00 AM, charge ’til noon, and then sell the power back to the grid and make money! LOL? I dunno.”
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Absolutely, if you’re talking about “load balancing”, which costs the utilities plenty! Not the same as peak balancing. It is the millisecond changes in demand from one guy turning on a light and one turning off a light within milliseconds.
PHEVs plugged into the grid could sit there plugged-in, and sell small amounts of current back to the utilitys, saving them lots of $$’s.
=D~~~~
Dec 17th, 2008 (2:43 pm)In the 2nd paragraph of the About The Volt page http://gm-volt.com/about/
It says the Volt can be charged from a 110/220 volt household outlet.
Whats with the bait & switch?
Why don’t the majority of the people who post comments on this forum have a problem with it?
This will reduce the Volt’s market appeal; wake up people.
Dec 17th, 2008 (2:52 pm)#64 User Name Says:
In the 2nd paragraph of the About The Volt page http://gm-volt.com/about/
It says the Volt can be charged from a 110/220 volt household outlet.
Whats with the bait & switch?
Why don’t the majority of the people who post comments on this forum have a problem with it?
This will reduce the Volt’s market appeal; wake up people.
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I dont get your point? What has changed or “switched”?
Dec 17th, 2008 (3:34 pm)@User Name 64
I think most people here understand that 110v is half of 220v and that charging at 110v takes twice as long to charge than 220v.
Or do you not get that?
Dec 17th, 2008 (4:13 pm)***
Dec 17th, 2008 (4:51 pm)George K. Says:
PHEVs plugged into the grid could sit there plugged-in, and sell small amounts of current back to the utilitys, saving them lots of $$’s.
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Isn’t this “Smart Grid” idea of using the vehicle batteries to help take care of peak electricity demand going to be hard on the batteries? I keep reading that the battery life is very dependant on how many times it is cycled (charged and depleted). Since it is the most expensive part of the car, I don’t think anyone is going to want to potentially shorten the battery life just to save a few cents buying “off peak” power and selling back “peak” power. Am I missing something?
Dec 17th, 2008 (4:56 pm)I for one would like to be able to simply plug in my volt after I drove 25-30 miles to town for some shopping – top off the battery – then drive home on battery only. This would be the ideal.
Did anyone ever figure out whether or not we could use the ICE/GEN as an emergency generator at home?
Dec 17th, 2008 (5:46 pm)#68 16falcon:
Well I was at least half joking, bur clearly they wouild have to pay enough for the power drawn from the Volt batteries to make it worth while, including factoring in any possible loss of battery life.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:15 pm)Everywhere around Los Angeles is the “old” charging stations for the EV-1, Rav-4, etc, do you really think property owners and City Govt. are going to spend the money again on something that “may” happen. Not likely. 120-volt charging is fine until there are 100,000′s of these on the road. Besides other “new” types of hybrids like the Ford Fusion can possibly change the game if gasoline prices continue to be low.
Dec 17th, 2008 (9:42 pm)I got a 230 V 70 Amp power point here, so I should be able to charge in about 1.5 hours hehe.
The point of public infrastructure is to open up sales to people in condos etc who do not have access to their own charge point. It also increases visibility and desirability. Whenever I go to the airport and see the HEV car parks at the front of the car park, I think, wish I had my Volt right now.
As to charging, even without putting power back to the grid, power generators, can save heaps of money by dialing down the charge rates to cover spikes in demand. Basically, we would use the chargers as an intermittent device. We only need to know the current SOC, capacity of the battery, and time it needs to be filled by. Over millions of cars we could move plants to a 5 minute start up availability, instead of at load cut in, or 30 second cut in. The last two options waste huge amounts of fuel.
EV’s rock!
Dec 17th, 2008 (11:55 pm)Why would you need a charging receptacle geek squad. Any electrician can set up a 220v plug/panel. Heck. Just about anyone can do it who even has a passing understanding of electrical wiring.
Dec 17th, 2008 (11:56 pm)I have plenty of non-vehicle electrical loads that consume far more power than charging a car from a 110v outlet. They all work just fine at any time of day and the power company has no problem handling the load. I’ll plug in when I get home and unplug before I leave. No Problem!
Dec 18th, 2008 (12:05 am)Well, where I live (Manitoba), the infrastructure is already in place to host electric cars. We had to build it in order to plug in our cars at night/during the day at work during the winter, otherwise our cars wouldn’t start.
Winnipeg is all set for electric cars. We’ve had it for decades.
Dec 18th, 2008 (8:03 am)“It is also noted that no technical standard has yet been written and accepted for the process of rapid charging. At 240 V,”
What he is saying is that the morons who create standards think that the outlet used for dryers or the two used for stoves, or the one used for boats, or the one used in campgrounds for Winnebagos, cannot be used to charge cars.
They haven’t decided on the new standard.
You can bet it will be expensive and incompatible with all the others.
Heaven protect us from those who would protect us.
Dec 18th, 2008 (5:25 pm)#68 16falcon
“Isn’t this “Smart Grid” idea of using the vehicle batteries to help take care of peak electricity demand going to be hard on the batteries?”
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You’re talking about “peak balancing”, which “could be” a life-of-the-battery concern. But, I’m talking about “load balancing”, which only discharges for a few second or more at a time.
If you ever watched the power coming into your home, it may stay at 125 Volts but all of a sudden goes down to say 115, then within seconds, pops back up. The utilities have to have stand-by current to bring on very quickly, but for a very short amount of time.
It’s not really taking much from any one battery. You would need many thousands of PHEV’s hooked up to make a difference, but that day will come.