AND 
Summary of Senate Hearing and Congressional Leaders Publish New Letter to Bush
The Senate Finance Committee ended its nearly 6 hour meeting at 3:45 PM EST. The Detroit 3 CEOs were accompanied by the UAW president, Moody’s CEO/economist, and the CEO of supplier Johnson Controls.
The 3 CEOs gave their comments at noon. Rick Wagoner mentioned he was confident in GMs viability plan. Johnson Controls’ CEO explained that a collapse of GM would lead to failure of suppliers who were dependent on them and cause an implosion in the supplier network. Ford’s CEO indicated he supported that view, and although insisted Ford did not need any government loans at this point but that the collapse of one or both of the other automakers could too lead to Ford’s demise.
The Government Accountability Office indicated a government oversight body could enforce the restructuring required and the 3 CEOs agreed to it. The also noted that TARP could be used to fund the bailout.
Mark Zandi the Moody’s CEO indicated it was his belief that the automakers would actually require $75 to $125 billion overall to remain viable, but noted that the alternative collapse of the US auto industry would cost the economy hundreds of billions of dollars.
Senator Corker (R-Tenn) was scathing towards Chrysler attesting that their “father” Cerebrus the private equity firm was unwilling to loan them money, so why should the government. He also insisted it was Chrysler’s plan to simply use that money as a bridge to merge with another automaker and not for their own viability.
It was also brought up that the government would be unhappy if GM used loans to expand their Mexico assembly operation, and Wagoner said they wouldn’t.
The idea of a government funded forced merger between GM and Chrysler was brought up due to its potential for long term savings. Wagoner admitted that prior talks with them fell through because GM’s current liquidity position had become so severe they had to focus on survival, but would be willing to consider a government-brokered merger.
Wagoner admitted that the $4 billion GM is currently asking for would only bring them to the end of January. It was then asked of him that if GM received loans now, but couldn’t successfully renegotiate their debt by a deadline of March 31 2009, would he then be willing to file for Chapter 11. He agreed.
The UAW president said we could lose GM by the end of the month.
Friday the CEOs will go before the House Financial Services Committee. A vote on some kind of plan if hoped for for next Monday, but not yet confirmed.
A live blog transcript of the Senate proceedings can be found here.
[UPDATE] Reps Pelosi and Frank and Senators Reid and Dodd have issued a new letter urging the Bush administration to issue fund to the automakers immediately from the TARP or “Wall Street Bailout” fund:
Dear Mr. President:
This week the U.S. domestic auto industry submitted their comprehensive plans for restructuring their companies and moving promptly to produce more fuel-efficient, advanced technology vehicles which are essential for their economic future and for the environmental needs of our world. Hearings are underway in the House and Senate Committees into those plans, but it is already clear that action should be taken by the federal government to facilitate the implementation of these restructuring efforts and prevent the severe impacts to our economy that would result from the bankruptcy of one or more of these companies.
We have previously urged that $25 billion of the funds provided in the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act (EESA) can and should be used for emergency bridge loans for the domestic auto industry. The response from the Treasury to date has been that these funds should only be used to protect the U.S. financial sector. What is becoming clear, however, is that the failure of the Big 3 would indeed have a major direct and negative impact on the financial sector, not just on the economy as a whole.
We again urge you to use funds available to you through the EESA to provide emergency bridge loans to the auto industry. In testimony before the Senate Banking Committee today, Acting Comptroller General Gene Dodaro indicated not only that the Treasury has the authority under EESA to do so, but that the Federal Reserve also has the authority to provide assistance to the auto companies. We agree with the Government Accountability Office’s (GAO) assessment and urge you to consider this option in conjunction with funds from EESA. It is essential to take this action not only in light of the new evidence about the impact of the failure of the auto industry on the financial sector, but also in light of the industry’s plans which have been submitted to the Congress this week. Those plans include the imposition of tough accountability through establishment of an Oversight Board to oversee the disbursal and uses of the loans, a feature that also was included in the Reid and Levin-Bond bills introduced in the Senate as well as the legislation proposed by Barney Frank in the House last month.
In its testimony before the Senate Banking Committee today, the GAO endorsed this principle.
While an immediate loan must be a necessary of part of this effort, the Oversight Board should review on an ongoing basis the adequacy of progress in implementing the auto industry’s plans and make recommendations to the Treasury Department as it administers the loan. You have the power to appoint such a board at the same time that you direct the Secretary of the Treasury to use the EESA funds for these loans.
The Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP) under EESA was created specifically to stabilize the financial system from threats such as the imminent failure of large sectors of the automobile and related industries. Recent research by a prominent financial firm concludes that the auto sector represents one of the largest sectors in leverage finance for banks because of their large number of high-yield bonds they have issued and that the companies’ failures would result in “credit crisis part II.” The Ford Motor Company has concluded that the “Detroit 3, plus their suppliers create a $1.1 trillion gross exposure to the U.S. financial system,” and that “increasing the financial sector’s negative exposure by up to $1 trillion and reducing the economic activity by up to $800 billion will greatly exacerbate the current negative economic and financial climate.”
Congress may consider legislation to provide assistance to the domestic automobile industry next week. Your decision to utilize the TARP funds, or to work with the Federal Reserve to make available assistance through its existing lending programs, or both, are essential to the Congress’ ability to address this critical economic situation in a timely manner, and would also eliminate the uncertainties inherent in the legislative process.
We are very hopeful that we can work cooperatively with the Administration and the Federal Reserve to provide urgent assistance and support our domestic auto industry, just as other nations are doing, during this extraordinarily difficult global economic collapse. We look forward to hearing from you on an expedited basis, since we will be notifying colleagues tomorrow of next week’s session.
Sincerely,
Rep. Nancy Pelosi Senator Harry Reid
Rep. Barney Frank Senator Christopher J. Dodd
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
I was watching some of the hearings, and found it a little depressing.
It seemed that many of our elected officials who so eagerly gave Wall Street & the bankers the better part of a trillion dollars with no questions asked, and no strings attached, were reluctant to even consider giving the automakers 1/28th of what Wall Street & the bankers got.
It does’nt look good right now, & I hope this will change.
Does anyone here feel that Wall Street & the bankers have just a little to much influence in Washington such that even giving the automakers a smidgen of what Wall Street got out of the question?
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Wagoner agreed chpt 11 was an option? I thought it wasn’t…or was that just brinkmanship.
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Someone in Congress should step up and state that E-REV technology will be “a great cost saving” when used in government vehicles.
And that the government should purchase from GM in 2009 “as other manufactures have yet to offer this technology”.
_______________________
By using this wording the government can get around complaints of favoritism. Start saving money. Be less dependent on OPEC oil. And fight less wars.
yes we can?
=D~
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
#1 Guy Incognito:
Yes!
Is it just me, or does that guy from Moody’s sound a lot like Statik? Remember folks, you heard it here first.
Jeez, they might have to give the “Big 2.1″ (sorry Statik, I demoted them) almost as much as they gave AIG. Maybe they’ll get a bit of transparency and accountability this time. Anybody wanna bet?
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Ya! they’re getting the money! Bankruptcy not going to happen, thanks to Dr. Zandi ! Gotta love “Corky” for going on the attack mode!
Now the BIG 2.0 (Ford & GM/Chrysler) can get back to business!
Hopefully people will start buying cars asap or come March 31st it’s
GO VOLT !
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:45 pm
“that the collapse of one or both of the other automakers could too lead to Ford’s demise.”
This sounds wrong. If two fail, GM & the other, Ford would be left to “pick up the slack” on the market. Isn’t that what the foreign markets are hoping for anyway? The less competition, the more market for them, Honda, Toyoda & Nissan?
Or am I reading it wrong?
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
Unless people start buying cars, no amount of money will save these companies. We should make the gamble, give them the loans and hope people start buying cars next year.
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
@Guy Incognito
(Wall Street and Banks + Washington) is = to (GM+Ford+Chrysler+UAW)
Where Washington is the host and Wall Street and Banks are the leaches.
And GM+Ford+Chrysler are the host and UAW are the leaches.
I think that adds up.
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Senator Corker (R-Tenn) I don’t know what to say about that guy, where was his buddy from Alabama (which has toyota honda bmw etc) who would love nothing more than see the big three fail because it would help his state. I watched the hearings today and heard some good things from the Democrats and I hope common sense will prevail. Under fail rules GM can compete with anyone.
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December 4th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
FTR, the Alabama senator voted against the Wall Street bailout, too.
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:10 pm
#5 Anthony BC & #7 Mike:
Well the next problem is that they don’t have anything I want to buy.
NPNS!
Or, as Casey so famously said:
don’t buy new gas cars, make ‘em make EVs
DBNGCMEMEV
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
6 Capn’ Jack
“that the collapse of one or both of the other automakers could too lead to Ford’s demise.”
————–
Well the issue is not with the automakers, but with the suppliers. Many parts are sourced from common suppliers. Johnson Controls supplies many different electrical assemblies to all three. The fear is that a supplier like JC, would also be severely impacted, and possibly lead to suppliers going under. I do not know if I totally buy the argument, but I can see some truth in the argument.
I know engineers that work at Johnson Controls, based in Milwaukee, WI. I would expect JC to survive if GM goes belly up. They are into many product lines and are diverse enough that, even though they may need to “adjust” I see no way they go under just because GM goes down.
Sorry, still NBA!
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
@6 CaptJack:
“that the collapse of one or both of the other automakers could too lead to Ford’s demise.”
This sounds wrong. If two fail, GM & the other, Ford would be left to “pick up the slack” on the market. Isn’t that what the foreign markets are hoping for anyway? The less competition, the more market for them, Honda, Toyoda & Nissan?
@9 Mike:
Senator Corker (R-Tenn) I don’t know what to say about that guy, where was his buddy from Alabama (which has toyota honda bmw etc) who would love nothing more than see the big three fail because it would help his state.
Ford would fail because they could no longer get parts from the brankrupt suppliers.
Toyota, Honda & BMW would also have no parts and according to the Toyota engineer here the other day it would require a COMPLETE closure of ALL American factories for a 12 month period while they set up other suppliers with new dies etc. Apparently setting up dies is quite expensive, as well as the cost of having the entire NA divisions shuttered for a one year period. Given the downturns in Japan and Germany and the lack of credit to make new dies, the companies would probably just ramp production at home and export.
So, all in all, a GM failure would be a mixed bag for foreign companies. I the case of Japanese suppliers, they would also have to convert their lines to left hand drive models which all takes time.
EU producers would have an advantage here.
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t!
As Noel says: Tick tock, tick tock.
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:15 pm
So GM agreed to go chapter 11 IF they can’t get their debt under control by March 31, 2009.
Interesting
so GM finally admitted that chapter 11 would not be the end of them and is an option.
Interesting
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:16 pm
What Noel, no Hummer for you?
I guess that’s the problem whether they get the money or not. GM won’t have anything that ALOT of people are looking for (ie. Electric Car or productive hybrid) for another 2 years.
It don’t look too good…..
PS. Anyone notice on the cspan feed today that these car company CEO’s eyes blink like crazy, that’s weird?
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Guy @ 1, I also agree…
It almost seems like Congress is going to let the Big 3 fail and rescue the greedy bastards on Wall Street… Too bad it was the workers from the Big 3 that built Wall Street and will keep it afloat.
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
It was announced earlier in the week that they finally figures out that we have been in a recession since December ‘07. If the auto companies don’t get any money be ready for it to last another couple years. Maybe if they all 3 go we can see what a depression is like.
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Regarding Unions:
I am not a union lover or basher. They have served to allow many people to make a decent living. Yes, there are those who take advantage of the system, and do as little as possible and want as much as possible. But, I also understand that w/o a Union the power of the blue collar worker begins to fade.
I think the Union needs to make concessions in times like this. They also need to protect their own. This is a tough fight and I feel fortunate not to be caught in the middle. I am sure many workers are starting to wonder if they are going to be able to afford their homes in the near future (damn vicious circle…).
I have no doubt that if the Unions are snuffed out, that the blue collar workers will suffer greatly and be taken advantage of. It is just the way it will be, if they have no leverage to demand a decent wage.
PS: I just broke out my asbestos suit…let the flaming begin!
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Granted these three CEO’s are not the best in the world and all are way overpaid, but is anyone else dumbfounded by the irony here?
These guys are being interrogated and judged by a group of people that are 100x more greedy and crooked and incompetent than the CEOs they are judging.
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
#18 JEC:
No flames from here. That’s the way it’s always been. At the end game of globalization, wages go to the lowest common denominator. Workers in China, Africa, Mexico, Japan, and the good old USA all live at the same level of borderline existence, and the top 0.01% travel the world in their Gulfstreams. Wait for it.
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
On the subject of Johnson Controls. Makes Compact Power look good.
One problem has been durability, with early lithium-ion units tolerating only 750 cycles of discharge and recharge, or about two years of service, before deterioration of the terminals carrying power reduces charge capacity. A change from a terminal made of carbon to one made of lithium titanate spinel oxide holds the promise of raising this to 9,000 cycles and 20 years’ use.
http://www.nytimes.com/glogin?URI=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/15/automobiles/15BATTERY.html&OQ=_rQ3D1Q26refQ3Dautomobiles&OP=54893c9dQ2FRFTER(NQ3F0Q20NNqQ7CRQ7Cjj1Rj1RQ25Q24RQ5C5qNxNEQ51Q27T0RQ25Q24sOQ3EQ3EwU8h7qxQ27
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:39 pm
“Mark Zandi the Moody’s CEO indicated it was his belief that the automakers would actually require $75 to $125 billion overall to remain viable, but noted that the alternative collapse of the US auto industry would cost the economy hundreds of billions of dollars”
If you listen to the TV talking heads this evening, it seems that the American public doesn’t believe the initial $25B or now even $34B will be the end of it, and most are against the “bailout”. If you believe the credibility of Moody’s, you have to agree.
Not sounding good, folks.
But somehow, I still feel our Volt will be there in 2010.
=D~~~~
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December 4th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
I’m not very sanguine about car sales suddenly rising come March ‘09. In fact, I don’t expect car sales, out of any car maker, to do well over the next 12-18 months. No good feelings either way. I’m not seeing a failure of any of the Big Three as good news, but I’m not seeing any silver lining from a bailout. If I had to toss a coin, I’d say give ‘em the loans and roll the dice. There’s a chance.
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December 4th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
The 4 people who signed that letter to President Bush are more at fault for our economy problems now than President Bush himself. Why should we trust them now?
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December 4th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
thank God for C span ……i can puke at the sight of sen. richard shelby at my own home !.
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December 4th, 2008 at 9:17 pm
So what’s next?
I’m thinking, Congress will end up giving GM and Chrysler enough to make it til early next year. That’s a pretty safe move for them.
Then too, everyone will have more time to think about it, and perhaps, come up with more realistic numbers, and hopefully, more aggressive plans.
Perhaps, GM/Chrysler. Perhaps the Union goes away.
But the “big plan” has to be executed QUICKLY, as people will stop buying Detroit cars, with their future up for grabs. And, 1st quarter will be much worse then it is now.
=D~~~~
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December 4th, 2008 at 9:18 pm
#18 JEC – “I have no doubt that if the Unions are snuffed out, that the blue collar workers will suffer greatly and be taken advantage of. It is just the way it will be, if they have no leverage to demand a decent wage.”
Ultimately wage rates are determined by productivity. As for the UAW, I think the union has been the target of unfair criticism, including the obviously false claim that UAW workers make $73/hour — a claim which was called “a lie” in the Senate hearing today. Legacy costs are a big part of Detroit’s problem, not worker costs (it’s hard for 75,000 active workers to support 275,000 retired workers).
Having said this, I don’t like unions. Good ones make companies uncompetitive over time, and bad one just suck down dues without corresponding benefits. They also seem unnecessary. I can’t imagine companies abusing or even paying their workers uncompetitive wages. With respect to protections, in CA there are so many worker protections it’s hard to imagine a union adding much protection.
As for income discrepancy, which is not a good thing, that’s more a function of the tax code than anything else.
I think the bigger problem is that foreign countries manage to put five guys on the court at a time while we put on four. So we get to play four on five. The four keep losing, and then we wonder: what’s wrong with our four guys?
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December 4th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
13 NZdavid
Toyota, Honda & BMW would also have no parts and according to the Toyota engineer here the other day it would require a COMPLETE closure of ALL American factories for a 12 month period while they set up other suppliers with new dies etc.
——————————————————————
I didn’t even think about that. What a mess that would be.
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
27 DonC
You make some good points.
I am really a fence sitter on Unions in general…but I do have some fears if Unions are dissolved, but also understand we need to compete in a new world economy.
I have no answers at this time, just opinions.
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Question – If GM goes under in March does that mean that they will be selling off all their cars at a big discount. If that is so then Ford and whoever is left will be hurting due to the cheap price of the “fire sale” GM cars. Is this scenario possible?
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
Hello everybody
…I know this is off the topic, but sometime ago, I read a post regarding imbeding induction electromagnetic coils at certain intervals underneath our highways, which will be powered by the electric utilities…the idea was that by having electromagnetic pick up under the car chasis, electric cars could charge themselves while traveling above these induction coils, which would be placed at pre-determined distances. This will employ a form of inductive electromagnetism, which is a technique used in all forms of exisitng transformers and electric motors today.
I am not sure if this idea has any merits, but I do have questions about it
My questions are…
1. Does this make sense to anybody?
2. Can this actually be implemented?
3. What are the repercutions of doing such a thing?
4. What types of batteries will be necessary to propel a vehicle in such circumstances
5. Is there any type of discussion taking place regarding this topic rigth now?
6. I have many more questions, but don’t want to bore you
If you have some answers, please POST your comments below…and again, I am sorry to have brought an off topic issue
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:28 pm
Poster #31… I think you are on the wrong forum… you should email Lyle and see if he wants to create a string on that…
American’s love their CARS and their COUNTRY… I bet all three will get loan money! Does anyone think they really won’t get the money?
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Whatever happens to the Big 3 and to the 09′ world economy the ultimate winner will be the battery manufacturer. They will supply the ammo to all sides in the upcoming world wide battle for EV and E-REV supremacy.
____________________________________________
“No one will have money to buy a car in 09′, electric or not”.
____________________________________________
The winner is still the battery supplier. Electric bicycles are very popular in China and this trend is sure to spread.
+++++++++++++++++
This is why I ask the U.S. Government to get involved in non union battery supply manufacturing. Create green jobs. Lower the unemployment rate. Feed the American automotive industry the ammo it needs to keep fighting. Lower pollution levels and the need for future oil wars.
Close segments of the current Big 3 (as planned) and rehire displaced workers into battery manufacture. Made in the America ~ bought in America ~ taxed in America ~ serviced in America.
Let’s put our tax money to work on a real gainer. There is no down side risk in battery manufacturing.
Yes we can?
=D~
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
electriciti
I am by far no expert on this, but here would be my answers:
1. Does this make sense to anybody? Yes it makes theoretical sense. But practicality is the big problem (see other answers)
2. Can this actually be implemented? Yes, but your going to deal with a lot of MAJOR issues.
- First is the fact that you would somehow need to size the electromagnet to propel all the cars on the road. This would determine the size of cabling, which would is dependent upon the field you would want to generate. A high voltage field requires less current, and therefore smaller gauge wire. A high current field requires less insulation, but more copper. I am afraid you would never have enough power to keep everyone moving. It would be kind of like the old electric race car tracks that you had as a kid, and someone jumps off his track onto yours, and now your car slows down cause he is sucking power off your grid. Would be cool to see how traffic slows and accelerates together on the road. Or, how a semi truck is able to slow you down by stepping on the “electric” pedal.
3. What are the repercutions of doing such a thing? MANY!
- First you would need to tear up every road in the country!
- The cost would be ASTRONOMICAL!
- Then your kinda screwed if you ever leave the main roadway!
- Also, could you imagine the traffic congestion when the power goes out, EVERYONE is stuck instantaneously.
4. What types of batteries will be necessary to propel a vehicle in such circumstances. In theory you need NO battery. All power is derived from the inductive coils. Again, this is a real reach.
5. Is there any type of discussion taking place regarding this topic rigth now? Maybe on the Simpsons? I have heard this idea thrown out for years, but I cannot see anyway you could practically apply this. Maybe you could setup a dedicated route, but who is going to ride on it (maybe a bus line?)
6. I have many more questions, but don’t want to bore you. Don’t worry about boring me, and my fingers need the exercise.
PS: With only a few edit seconds I realized you said inductive pickups a intervals not continuous pickup. this will make it a little more practical, but in my opinion I do not see this ever taking wing…out of edit time
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
@ 33 -
“The winner is still the battery supplier.”
Too bad all the batteries already come from China…
It’s pretty tough to beat their prices with all our pesky laws prohibiting dumping the alkali waste in the local river, requiring the employer pay people at least $5 an hour, etc.
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
It is sad that some people think bashing the union is fun. I don’t know who are the real leachers, people who make $20 Million a year or a living wage with some benefits.
I wonder what a UAW worker costs compared to a German / Japanese auto worker. But I’m sure execs in big 3 cost a lot more than the execs in German / Japanese automakers. No, UAW people don’t make $70 / hour (http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2008_11/015760.php).
Without unions we would have never had a middle class. Wal-mart workers are not middle class for the most part ….
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
electriciti
Ok. I ran out of time to edit my last post. But the major problem you would have with interval pickups is how do you ensure you do not run out of charge between pickups? What if you are in traffic and you have the AC cranked? I think the variables are to big and you would basically be better buying a Volt.
Also, they are just not going to make an investment in our infrastructure to put this in place. It really is not practical…in my opinion of course.
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:54 pm
#22 George K – ” If you believe the credibility of Moody’s, you have to agree.”
Actually if you believe Moody’s chief economist you sign up for the loan ASAP. Zandi testified that it was inconceivable that the loans would not be extended for two reasons. First he claimed that the failure to extend the loans would be, in his words, “cataclysmic” for the economy. Second he claimed that the costs the taxpayers would incur if the loans were not extended would be, again in his own words, “in a different universe” (meaning a magnitude greater than the possible losses on the loans). So if you believe him it’s a no-brainer and you should extend the loans. FWIW his analysis is pretty much what you get from economists but not necessarily from politically oriented commentators.
A related point is that if you examine his numbers closely they were not so different than the numbers presented by Detroit as it first appeared. Zandi said Detroit will need $75B. Detroit is actually asking for $61B — the $25B already in the appropriation for the retooling loans and the additional $36 — but you may miss this if you focus on the $36B figure.
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December 4th, 2008 at 10:55 pm
Okay, Enough already with the dog and pony show!
Just lend them enough to get through till Obama takes office and let him work it out. Honestly i’d rather have the “big loan” be handled by his administratoin anyway.
——————————————————————
Got to love it though Pelosi & Reid are PR warriors.
Summary of the letter:
Dear Bush your the worst president ever, aren’t there any ex-cia psychos we left behind with a huge grudge looking to take it out on you?………………
…………………. PS save a little face and lone them the money to survive until you go back under your rock in Texas. And for the record everyone and their momma testified that you have the authority to loan it from the TARP (700B). If you don’t everyone will know it’s because you didn’t want to, not because you couldn’t.
…………….. PPS Everything that goes wrong in the next 4 years were going to blame on you and everyone will believe us because YOU WERE THE WORST PRESIDENT EVER! Barrack said to tell you thanks!
————————————————————–
Got to love the GOP senators from the south, under our stuardship we ran up the largest debt ever and spent like 18yr olds with new credit cards, but no money for wall st, and no money for big auto.
Why? Because were the party of fiscal responsibility, of course!
Nothing like a little “scorched earth” defense to say wow you whipped us good in November!
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December 4th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Completely off topic, but a little levity at this stage.
http://www.ireport.com/docs/DOC-157278
Merry Christmas to all.
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December 4th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
hi DB Cooper #35,
“… all the batteries already come from China… It’s pretty tough to beat their prices…. ”
_____________________________________
We Americans don’t give up that easy. Displaced auto workers would love a stable manufacturing job through a government sponsored battery manufacturer. The Big 3 will have their batteries tested off site and provided at low cost. Even if the pricing means a small loss for the government.
The tax payer will get something for the dollar spent. We can’t say this now. American tax payers have got to start thinking concretely and not continue to flush the value of our monetary system to poverty levels.
Save the Big 3 by supplying the power to drive ‘green’ cars. Outfit state and government agencies with EV’s and E-REV’s.
Let’s get on with it.
=D~
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December 4th, 2008 at 11:27 pm
#31 LOL nice try
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December 5th, 2008 at 12:00 am
#39 JonP
Okay, Enough already with the dog and pony show!
Just lend them enough to get through till Obama takes office and let him work it out. Honestly i’d rather have the “big loan” be handled by his administratoin anyway
———————————————–
I have no desire to discuss GM at the moment or what was said at the hearings…I’m just tired about everything GM at this moment. I’m going ‘wide-lens’ now.
However, I will say one thing about your statement…and it in someway reflects the disengenuiousness of Reid/Pelosi writing a letter to Bush to have him step in here.
Obama’s complete lack of presence at this moment speaks volumes to his comitment to this situation. What is his position? The dude was on the TV and in our face 24/7 for like a year and a half…and now he has practically vanished. My tv has screen burn of his face from his airtime on CNN.
He has practically been rendered mute on this subject. All we hear is from ‘aids’ and ’supporters’ saying they are ‘considering this’ and ‘taking into consideration’ that. He has no more will to act than Bush does.
If he wants to save the ‘big 2.8,’ he has that power right now. All he has to do is come out of his foxhole and be accountable. Stand up and say, “I am the next President of the United States and I want the opportunity to fix and/or decide the fate of the American auto industry. Give them this 25 billion to bridge them through to my administration. “…and they will do it. The Dems will all tow the line and the Republicans will be happy to vote yes and put the enormous weight of this decision on him.
Either Bush or Obama can do this thing, either can put their neck on the line…neither is up to it.
My gut says they are playing chicken with each other…Obama likely will have to saunder up to the window over the weekend with some kind of confusing, ‘I approve the bailout, but not really approve it,’ because he doesn’t want to risk inheriting the Presidency of the Apocalypse if he can help it, so he has to grease the wheels a bit to get the fence sitting votes.
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December 5th, 2008 at 12:03 am
Things change, some can remember when the big 150 wagon makers went out of business, the workers thought the world was going to end, but eventually they all got new jobs, and horses kinda went just for racing and dog food.
Things are changing again and its time we adjust to it. A prearranged chapter 11 with gov. money going to creditors will save most jobs and keep the big 1.3/4 going while they retool and start making fuel efficient autos and EVs and some regular gas cars and trucks.
With new contracts with CEOs and the UAW union they will build a new era. Its coming.
NO PLUG NO SALE, DBANGCMEMEVS, LJGTVWOTR, (my house)=D~~~~(my volt)
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December 5th, 2008 at 12:11 am
#4 noel park
Is it just me, or does that guy from Moody’s sound a lot like Statik? Remember folks, you heard it here first.
Jeez, they might have to give the “Big 2.1″ (sorry Statik, I demoted them) almost as much as they gave AIG. Maybe they’ll get a bit of transparency and accountability this time. Anybody wanna bet?
======================================
I was thinking about calling them the ‘Small 2.8′ but I’ve been putting out the ‘Big 2.8′ moniker for so long it seems a shame to waste all my equity in it now.
—-
I still say the bottom line number is more like 400-500 billion to put them all back on the rails. People/lawmakers need to look at the big picture here.
Not only do they need to get started again, they need to clear all their indebtness/legacy costs, restart R&D, retool/rebuilt, renew the public’s trust…and then try to compete against the 800lb Gorilla Toyota in a market that has taken a 40% haircut (and still falling) in the last 10 months, all the while in a environment of recession (possibly depression) with unemployment skyrocketing.
(Just wait for tomorrow’s employment report…it looks to be ‘historic’ Street expects 320K? and a rise from 6.5 to 6.8? They should be so lucky)
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December 5th, 2008 at 12:21 am
Statik,
Couldn’t agree more.
Why should Obama put his neck on the line before he has to. Plus in a month he can dictate to the congress his wishes. Right now he has to make concessions…. Could he do something? For sure!
Bush on the other hand “just took 3 zanexes & a silver bullet” to quote Will Ferrell cause he’s out of here in a month. (told you i loved that skit)
Long story short it is a total pissing match, hard to tell yet if the “sky is falling” tactics from big auto will put enough pressure on the gop who have something to lose to get the bridge, but if not. Obama will have to make his move.
My family has spent their life in car sales, my brother has this theory about sales. He says in every negotiation there’s comes a point during the back and forth where you’ve reached as close to the middle as either party wants to go, and at that very moment “whichever side talks first loses” to quote him. The theory being that at that moment both parties know negotiations are at their breakdown point, and the party which talks first dosen’t want to lose the deal worse than the other.
Seems fitting for this situation, just thought i’d share.
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December 5th, 2008 at 12:22 am
Just wanted to make a few points.
1. Comparing the bank bailout to a Big 3 bailout is like comparing Apples to a Peanut. The reason is because if the banks fail, so does EVERYTHING else. No mortgages, no auto loans, no credit cards. It would have meant an instant depression.
2. If JC or other suppliers fail, it does NOT mean it would take 12 to 18 months for a new source of supplies for the remaining auto manufacturers in the US. The reason is simple… If these suppliers went into liquidation, their existing dies and what not would go to the highest bidder. And as the winning bidder, do you really think they would let the equipment idle or trash it to wait for new dies to be created? No you put them back into production ASAP. Plus, there’s already a glut of autos on dealer lots, so a couple months of idle production would be a good thing.
3. GM Volt…. The VOLT will NOT save GM, even if it was release last year. The reason is simple. The Volt’s retail price is to high due to the cost of the battery. The way the economy is, do you really think people would purchase a $40K car, when they can spend half that to get from point A to point B? Folks, the auto market is in the crapper. It doesn’t make any difference what the car costs or does, they just aren’t selling.
As for the bailout, I’m with the 61% that says “NO!” It’s not that I don’t want them to survive, it’s that it just doesn’t seem logical (based on what I see, I don’t see all 3 of of these manufacturers making it in the long run). I also feel that if GM or Chryslar goes under, Ford will eventually prosper as any remaining auto manufacturer.
BTW, really think about this… Why should we, the tax payers, have to bailout Chrysler if their parent company Cerebrus isn’t willing to lend them any money?
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December 5th, 2008 at 12:39 am
#11 Noel Park
you made my heart sing !!!
#45 Statik
That’s precisely what I was trying to say but with fewer words @44 HO HO MERRY CHRISTMAS
NO PLUG NO SALE, LJGTVWOTR, (my house) =D~~~~(my volt) DBANGCMEMEVS
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December 5th, 2008 at 12:40 am
hi JonP #46,
“… in every negotiation there’s comes a point during the back and forth where you’ve reached as close to the middle as either party wants to go, and at that very moment whichever side talks first loses”.
_______________________________
I had arrived at this point with a car salesman years ago. As I walked off the lot I looked back and said, “If you decide to accept my offer you have my number”. He replied, “Hey, wait a minute. Let’s flip a coin for the difference right now”. So he flipped, I called heads, and I won.
=D~
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December 5th, 2008 at 1:20 am
@electriciti 31
Here are my 2 cents…
1. Does this make sense to anybody?
Yes, theoretically.
2. Can this actually be implemented?
Yes. Provided the space between coils are very close. The process of induction you imply is similar to induction of a transformer. The difficulty of implementing this is, a transformer coils are wrapped closely together. Creating an induction field strong enough to reach the coils of the vehicle will incurr too much loss/inefficiency. This will make it “financially unfeasable” due to the mass of power required for the induction field to be effective.
3. What are the repercutions of doing such a thing?
See above. Also, the streets would have to be dug up and field coils embedded into the ground at specific points.
4. What types of batteries will be necessary to propel a vehicle in such circumstances
A combination of lithium batteries and Ultracapacitors are necessary. The Lith cells will be for the longer trek and the ultracaps will suck in anything the induction coils can bring in, Ultracaps have a much higher cycle rate of about a million cycles or more compared to the best lithium cells of around 2500 cycles.
5. Is there any type of discussion taking place regarding this topic rigth now?
I’m sure somewhere. Sorry, I dunno.
6. I have many more questions, but don’t want to bore you
That was a statement, not a question.
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December 5th, 2008 at 1:24 am
Honda is looking for a buyer for their F1 team. If they can’t find one by March, they will just close it down. All to save 200 to 300 million per year.
European Automakers looking for a cool 50 Billion.
http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/blog/europeinsight/archives/2008/11/push_for_europe.html?campaign_id=rss_daily
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December 5th, 2008 at 2:32 am
31 electriciti: “I know this is off the topic, but sometime ago, I read a post regarding imbeding induction electromagnetic coils at certain intervals underneath our highways, which will be powered by the electric utilities…”
32 Keith: “Poster #31… I think you are on the wrong forum…”
Funny how it used to be that this board used to be for discussing the Volt and technology, and changing the subject to discussions about company finances were frowned upon. Now it’s the other way around.
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December 5th, 2008 at 6:20 am
I have a different opinion about what congresses letter to the president means. I think they are telling the president that in their opinion the country will be in deep do do if the big 2.8 go down and it looks like if one goes they all go. There is not the votes in this congress to put forth the money and the only one left that can act is the president.
Will he act?
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December 5th, 2008 at 6:41 am
I was listening to NPR this morning.
It doesn’t sound like there are enough votes in Congress to support the loans to the automakers.
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December 5th, 2008 at 7:14 am
blkstne # 14
GM said without $4 billion now they won’t make it through January. So Chapter 11 in the beginning of April would be moot or redundant.
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December 5th, 2008 at 7:44 am
NZDavid@#51 – Thanks for adding some context to the bailout the Detriot 3 are looking for.
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December 5th, 2008 at 8:12 am
Its either bankrupcy now or later.
The advantage of doing it know is the taxpayers wont have the billions of dollars in it.
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December 5th, 2008 at 8:39 am
statik said
“Obama’s complete lack of presence at this moment speaks volumes to his comitment to this situation. What is his position? The dude was on the TV and in our face 24/7 for like a year and a half…and now he has practically vanished. My tv has screen burn of his face from his airtime on CNN.
He has practically been rendered mute on this subject. All we hear is from ‘aids’ and ’supporters’ saying they are ‘considering this’ and ‘taking into consideration’ that. He has no more will to act than Bush does.
If he wants to save the ‘big 2.8,’ he has that power right now. All he has to do is come out of his foxhole and be accountable. Stand up and say, “I am the next President of the United States and I want the opportunity to fix and/or decide the fate of the American auto industry. Give them this 25 billion to bridge them through to my administration. “…and they will do it. The Dems will all tow the line and the Republicans will be happy to vote yes and put the enormous weight of this decision on him.”
========================================
Obama’s silence is the one element of the situation I’ve found really surprising, given his earlier expressed views about the central importance of the auto industry to the USA. One almost thinks that he wants GM to go down before inauguration day, so the crisis is off his plate but is somebody else’s fault. Really, I don’t understand what Obama is up to.
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:02 am
…..and so the wrong perception continues about GM and its vehicles . Take what happened in this today’s MSNBC’s ‘ Morning Joe ‘ . Carlson Tucker said something like ‘ GM makes good large vehicles like the Suburban which I enjoy but its small cars are crappy . Go to a Rent A Car and drive try one of its small cars . I wonder if Tucker ever heard of the Aura and Malibu ! How can these people be allowed to spew lies and wrong/outdated info . No wonder his show got cancelled !
Sen. Shelby appeared shorly after Tucker and said something like ‘ GM is a dinosaur that should never be entrusted with the taxpayers’ money ‘ . Let’s see how GM compares with his beloved Toyota. The comparison highlights the fact that GM does offers a complete line of small vehicles. While GM does not presently offer a hybrid only vehicle like the Toyota Prius (GM will have the Volt in 2010) it does offer hybrid powertrains in several vehicles (similar to Honda with the Civic). GM has hybrid city buses, hybrid fullsize SUV’s and hybrid fullsize trucks which are markets that Toyota has no offering.
Comparison of Vehicles:
Cars
Sub-compact: Yaris 29/36/30, Aveo 27/34/30 (T)
Compact: Corolla 27/35/30, Cobalt 25/37/30 (Tie)
Mid-size: Camry 21/31/25, Malibu 22/33/26 (GM)
Full-size: Avalon 19/28/23, Impala 19/29/23 (GM)
Pick-ups
Small 2wd (4cyl): Tacoma 20/26/22, Colorado 18/24/20 (T)
Small 4wd (4cyl): Tacoma 17/22/19, Colorado 17/23/20 (GM)
F/S 2wd (8cyl): Tundra 14/18/16, Silverado 15/21/17 (GM)
F/S 4wd (8cyl): Tundra 13/17/15, Silverado 14/20/16 (GM)
SUVs
Small 2wd: 4-Runner 16/21/18, Equinox 17/24/20 (GM)
Small 4wd: 4-Runner 16/20/17, Equinox 17/24/20 (GM)
Med 4wd: Highlander 17/23/19, Traverse 16/23/19 (T)
Large 2wd: Sequoia 14/19/15, Tahoe 15/21/17 (GM)
Large 4wd: Sequoia 13/18/15, Tahoe 14/20/16 (GM)
Hybrids
Car – hybrid optional: Camry hybrid 33/34/34, Malibu hybrid 26/34/29 (T)
Car – hybrid only: Prius (Toyota – GM does not offer a vehicle in this market) City buses: (GM – Toyota does not offer a vehicle in this market)
Full size SUV: (GM – Toyota does not offer a vehicle in this market)
Full size pick-up Truck: (GM – Toyota does not offer a vehicle in this market)
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:08 am
I can see it now, Bush agrees, appoints an over sight board composed of oil indistry cronies and the first act is to require GM to kill the Volt claiming they do not have the money to finish developement in their dire financial condition. Oil wins!
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:29 am
I wonder how they get those other cars sold. And you know how long it takes to get a new car line up on the road and sell.
If they want to get saved.. Car’s has to be sold. As here in europe you get a small car as a present with a big car. Sales are dropped down.
How would GM sell cars if nobody at this moment has money to buy a new one????
It’s really pitty for those workers at GM etc. I know america have smart people. But GM was to big… they couldn’t addapt to the new way of cars people want.
And as an european man i know american company as chevrolet is making smaller cars. But still they are nothing special to other european cars. They are car.. cars.
Really.
They are getting sold here but not much. There design is so borring not as european people are used to. And there engine isn’t anything special. Just 4 cilinder 16v 1.6 liter old technology.
As for VW has 1.4 liter turbocharged and compressor 160 HP and is very clean.
Where is the new technology? i know americans can make innovations.. but why not in the car market?
I think there should be new start ups in america.. new fresh company’s with fresh minds.
GM volt would be a really nice car. As how it looks it would be sold in europe. Probably alot better then prius.
As most people here have a workplace that is arround 30 kilometers away from there home. We could really use that battery very good.
Sorry for my bad english i hope you understand.
Greetings.
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:39 am
#45 Statik (me) says,
December 5th, 2008 at 12:11 am
(Just wait for tomorrow’s employment report…it looks to be ‘historic’ Street expects 320K? and a rise from 6.5 to 6.8? They should be so lucky)
===================================
===================================
Employers cut 533K jobs in Nov., most in 34 years
Friday December 5, 9:01 am ET
WASHINGTON (AP) — Skittish employers slashed 533,000 jobs in November, the most in 34 years, catapulting the unemployment rate to 6.7 percent, dramatic proof the country is careening deeper into recession.
The new figures, released by the Labor Department Friday, showed the crucial employment market deteriorating at an alarmingly rapid clip
The job reductions were the most since a whopping 602,000 positions were slashed in December 1974, when the country was in a severe recession.
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081205/financial_meltdown.html
———————————–
…big surprise, lol
(Not sure how they got the 6.7% number from it if they were expecting 6.8 from a loss of 320K jobs…I’m figuring we are going to get a upward revision later).
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:39 am
At this moment I am at a middle to large size Chevy dealer in central NC getting some routine service on my Silverado truck. Usually when I am here I walk around looking at the new trucks. Not this time. At this moment this dealer does not have one single new 4wd Silverado truck on the lot. They have exactly one large SUV. In fact, other than maybe a dozen Cobalts and Mailbus, they have few new Chevy vehicles of any kind — the large new car section is mostly a vacant lot, with the few new vehicles in a line along the highway. Before now this dealer would have had maybe 100 new vehicles out here, a nice selection.
So unless something radical happens quickly at the dealerships, GM is already gone, if this one is any indication.
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:45 am
$30,000,000,000 = 3 million $10,000 coupons/credits toward the purchase of Big 3 automobile
Problem solved for all 3 million jobs on the line and reintroduces America to the great cars our big 3 are making – so long term effects are there as well.
Ken
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:47 am
Today’s streaming hotness:
(more talking heads…talking)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/22887506#22887506
/enjoy
(I don’t know if I can handle these guys. That Ms. Waters drives me nuts, she has no clue what is going on, but she thinks she does…and that is a deadly combination)
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:49 am
statik said “..Not sure how they got the 6.7% number..”
==============================================
One has to keep in mind that the unemployment rate is determined by a survey where real interviewers go out to specific addresses. There is a delay. Also, a person who is unemployed but not looking for work is not counted. Sometimes people who recently lost jobs take a little while before again looking actively. That is, there is a sort of inertia.
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:56 am
#58 RB
You understand what he’s up to. You said it. This thing is a political liability, and he wants to get as much bad stuff on Bush’s plate as possible so that once he takes over things can look better. Bailouts are not a great way to garner positive public opinion, and Obama has a tremendous amount right now (relatively speaking). He doesn’t want to waste it on a zero sum game.
Then again, maybe he’s just trying to be true to the 1 president at a time mantra….I doubt it.
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:57 am
#64 KenEE on a $10K coupon for buying Big 3 cars
=========================================
I’m all for a consumer-level incentive like this. Lots of good things would come out of for individuals, and the general public would receive it much more favorably than another big-corporation bailout. But it might be better to allow the incentive to be used at any auto company — Not only would that avoid fair-trade issues, there is no way the Detroit companies will survive except with products people want. But they have some. After all, GM was #1 in US sales in recent periods, so it would be a big boost to them. Having a nice boost in auto sales across the board would also be a big boost in the economic environment generally.
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:59 am
#66 RB said,
One has to keep in mind that the unemployment rate is determined by a survey where real interviewers go out to specific addresses. There is a delay. Also, a person who is unemployed but not looking for work is not counted. Sometimes people who recently lost jobs take a little while before again looking actively. That is, there is a sort of inertia.
=================================
Yes, your exactly right…and I hate it (not that your right, lol…but how they do the numbers now).
Like I said I am very confident we are going to see upward revision here. The unemployment rate I figure has to be north of 8% within 2-3 months (as they calculate it now)…because that is the reality. It is unacceptable that such a important number (unemployment) is such a sham.
I knew that estimate yesturday of 320K was ridiculous. What we (and by ‘we,’ I mean the gerneral public) need is to only recognize analysts that have no interest in the market/economy whether it goes up or down, but are truly impartial.
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December 5th, 2008 at 10:08 am
47 Crabjoe:
Have you ever owned a manufacturing business? especially heavy manufacturing?
Tools and Dies cost a LOT of money your chances of bank financing is nil (banks won’t lend on orders)
Then, as a new manufacturer, and because you bought the tools and dies not the processes or certifications and existing supplier relationships, you have to get your line certified, your product must be tested for a variety of things (depends on the part: FMVSS, UV time testing) You must also be ISO 9000 certified.
18 months before you can start the line up for anything but engineering samples is on the short side….
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December 5th, 2008 at 10:13 am
hi statik,
Thanks for the CNBC link.
Why are Congress harping on, “people can’t get loans”?
Either help the Big 3 with injections of direct money. Or provide consumer incentives to buy new American cars.
One Congresswoman made a good point. She said, “With all the economic problems consumers face… the belief that Congress MAY offer future buyer incentives is in itself keeping them from buying cars now”.
____________________________
It’s time to face reality and get on with it.
=D~
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December 5th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Does anybody know what the break down for the 4 billion is?
UAW president said union worker salaries are only 10% of the company’s costs.
Where is the other 3.6 billion going?
I’d love to see a break down.
NPNS!
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December 5th, 2008 at 10:52 am
#22 George K
“But somehow, I still feel our Volt will be there in 2010.’
————-
If GM fails and cannot get financing to carry them through C11, they will be forced into C7 by the bankruptcy judge. If that happens, which is very likely, there will be no Chevy Volt. EVER. Toyota will not pickup the Volt and produce it. Ford will not because Ford will be fighting for its life and may very likely lose. Chrysler will already be gone. Honda will not do it. Nissan, if they could get access to it, might do it. But I kind of doubt even that.
Fact is, without GM there is no Volt. IMO.
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December 5th, 2008 at 10:59 am
#24 Curtis Wyatt
“The 4 people who signed that letter to President Bush are more at fault for our economy problems now than President Bush himself. Why should we trust them now?”
———–
Well stated. George Bush is not as dumb as they think. The democrats want him to approve the money from TARP/EESA so the blame can be placed on him when people complain about “the taxpayers bailing-out Detroit”. If congress has to vote on and approve a “bridge loan”, congress will be the responsible party. Plus they are not sure of two things. One, they don’t think enough republicans will vote with them to provide “cover” and two, they are not sure Bush would sign the bill. Not signing the bill would place Bush in the spotlight supporting the majority of taxpayers who seem to be saying, rightly or wrongly, that we should not bail-out anyone. They don’t want that kind of PR going into a new congress.
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December 5th, 2008 at 11:55 am
I knew you guys would show up. All the GM bashing and all the crazy talk of letting GM fail has given way to all of you who know something about how our economy works, what it takes to manufacture a car and how Washington is full of posturing, blowhards (can you believe Corker? How could anyone vote for such an as_h_le! Unbelievable! He had his points but the way he said them…).
Thank you.
Let the Democrats pass the INVESTMENT act (they will be loans, not handouts like AIG and the banks got) to save the US auto industry and let the Bush administration sink into the ash heap of history.
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December 5th, 2008 at 11:57 am
As to the curiousity of the unemployment rate only going to 6.7% from 6.5%, when it should be all rights be over 7%…I read over the report again and figured it out.
637,000 people dropped out of the labor force completely. (That means they are not working…and looking for work).
According to the report the ’share’ of people working in the US is the lowest since they started tracking it…which was sometime in the 40s.
/still hate this system of tracking…it is practically useless
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December 5th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
The Democrats can’t pass it. They don’t have the votes. It is Bush or no one.
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December 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
#76 statik — on unemployment rates.
===========================================
While hardly perfect or complete, there are some good parts about the present tracking system that one should keep in mind
1) The Labor department does follow its own system without bias, so the data is consistent over time, whatever it means
2) The results are independent of other results as they include new information involving numbers of people actually looking for work. In that regard, the number gives new information rather than simply reflecting jobs gained or loss.
3) The values reported come from interviewers talking to individuals, not somebody sending email or tabulating numbers from the internet. Often the same interviewer talks to the same individuals over periods of years (so long as they live at the same address). As such, the results are “primary” data, not derivatives.
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December 5th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
#76 statik said “As to the curiousity of the unemployment rate only going to 6.7% from 6.5%, when it should be all rights be over 7%…I read over the report again and figured it out.
637,000 people dropped out of the labor force completely. (That means they are not working…and looking for work).”
=====================================
Thank you for the further explanation.
It reflects the fact that in the US there are a lot of people who are interested in working if-as-when there is a good opportunity, but who come in and go out of the labor force as they see an opportunity. Some are individuals in distress, but others are people whose work interest is conditional, i.e., “..when I can get a reasonable job in my home town, but I’m not interested in commuting or moving.” I know lots of people who are this way (and of course lots of others who really have to have a job).
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December 5th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
And some are so depressed they have just quit.
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December 5th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
CaptJackSparrow #50
Thank you for your very interesting insight.
I specially like the part about the ultra capacitor.
Also, I like your idea about the lith battery being used for long range trips, while the ultra caps can charge everytime the vehicle would hit the electromagnetic fields. It would suck a lot of power, instantly charging and providing additional power to the lith batteries.
Also, I believe that the electromagnetic field can be utilized, by having the car lower an induction coil close to the groud everytime the vehicle would hit an electromagnetic field. This smaller distance could make the system more effecient. The coil could retract once the vehicle passes the magnetic field…
What do you think?
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December 5th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
Off topic,
Just saw Bob Lutz on Larry King Live. Just caught the end with Lutz summarizing GM’s great strides with both high quality, and high fuel efficient cars, especially the Volt.
Larry’s comment was “Ge Bob. You don’t look 77 years old.” Lutz said, “Thanks Larry. You don’t look 88!” (Larry is 75)
I say, lets put Lutz in charge of GM.
=D~~~~
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December 5th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
#38 DonC
“Detroit is actually asking for $61B — the $25B already in the appropriation for the retooling loans and the additional $36 — but you may miss this if you focus on the $36B figure.”
Yes, I thought the new figure WAS $36B. I kept hearing that on C-Span, though I didn’t hear the whole thing.
Hopefully, then, that is the number it would take to be able to sustain themselves with N. American sales of say 8M. They can’t keep misoverestimating the market year after year!
=D~~~~
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