AND 
VIDEO: GM’s CEO Arrives to Capitol Hill in Chevy Volt Prototype, Senate Hearings Underway
Today more than any day represents the most dramatic one since this site began nearly two years ago. It began on my hope to spread the word about the Chevy Volt and to help encourage GM to build it through through a show of overwhelming public support.
Today for the first time ever an experimental working running Chevy Volt prototype hit the public roads as GM CEO Rick Wagoner drove it up to Capitol Hill. Symbolically like a man driving to the gallows pole, potentially for him, his company, the Volt, and possibly the entire US auto industry as he testifies before the Senate pleading for $18 billion in loans, $4 billion of which needed immediately to stave off imminent collapse.
I spoke to GM Volt vehicle line director Tony Posawatz who was witness to the driving event. He said Mr.Wagoner indeed drove the car on the trip, less than two miles, in all-electric mode. The car performed flawlessly. Mr Wagoner, he said, had driven the car previously on the GM proving grounds, but not a mule such as this. Tony said this vintage mule is highly refined and performs very well. It was indeed a Cruze body but had special decals on the outside in particular one stating “VOLT TECHNOLOGY INSIDE.”
Mr. Wagoner is of course inside the Senate building now as the hearing is underway. You can see it live at cspan.org.
UPDATE – VOLT MULE Video:
[flash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKfjCUYYVZE]
142 Responses to “VIDEO: GM’s CEO Arrives to Capitol Hill in Chevy Volt Prototype, Senate Hearings Underway”
Leave a Reply
Recent Posts
- New York Times Report on the Chevy Volt Generator Mode Driving Experience
- CNBC Test Drive of the Chevy Volt in Charge Sustaining Mode
- Chevy Volt Will be Able to Hit 104 MPH
- Chevy Volt and Battery Program Update
- GM to Announce Initial Volt Markets at LA Auto Show
- Coalition of Industry Leaders Releases Roadmap to get 120 Million Electric Cars on US Roads by 2030
- Op-Ed: GM Reports a $1.2 Billion Loss, but Has the Cash To See Volt Well into Production and Beyond
- Three Chevy Volt Paint Color Finalists Announced
- What BMW Has Learned from the MINI E Program So Far: That They May Need to Build EREVs
- GM: EVs are Cool, but EREV’s are Really Cool
Recent GM-Volt Forum Posts
- Hacked e-mails reveal global-warming fraud? November 20, 2009This is how open minded liberals operate. "And, perhaps most reprehensibly," Delingpole writes, "a long series of communications discussing how best... […]BigCityCat
- Is the Volt Engine Direct Injected? November 20, 2009I recently read that the Cruze's engine will be DI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevy_Cruze#Chevrolet_Cruze Obviously the Cruze's engine will... […]omnimoeish
- First Reports of the Chevy Volt's Charge-Sustaining (Generator) Mode Operation November 20, 2009The first two journalists' reports of what it's like to drive the Chevy Volt while in generator mode operation have been published. 1) New York... […]admin
- Florida giving $5000 rebate to convert Prius to plug-in November 20, 2009- Probably Hymotion - $10,400 standard price - $5000 state rebate - $1000 additional federal incentives - $4,400 final cost. Hurry because their... […]Texas
- New York Times CSM story November 20, 2009Link to the New York Times story of November 19, 2009 about a test ride of the Volt in charge sustaining... […]srschrier
- New video: Volt drive in Detroit November 19, 2009November 19, 2009 Detroit Free Press story with video featuring a Volt drive with Andrew Farah in... […]srschrier
- New Video: Volt Corrosion Testing November 18, 2009From GM VoltAge, the Volt's corrosion... […]srschrier
GM-Volt.com is not affiliated with General Motors Company
All contents copyright 2007-2009 GM-Volt.com, LLC - All Rights Reserved
Home | Contact | Privacy Policy | About | Back to Top
December 4th, 2008 at 10:46 am
I was down there, production Volt looks really cool (especially when parked next to a crappy gold Malibu).
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 10:47 am
I wish him luck. He will get the loan, but I think the questions are how much and when.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 10:49 am
I think that your site Lyle has had a direct effect on this historic day.
Good Work…
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 10:52 am
Sorry to rain on the parade. There many not be the votes. Bloomberg reporting that GM and Chrysler discussing pre-packaged bankruptcy. Obama camp made similar noises over a week or so ago.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aoDXc0yNLVYg&refer=home
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Whats with the 2 miles in electric mode, not exactly pushing the envelope.
i think they should make the battery compartment accept anything from lead acid up to li-ion depending on how much your budget is.
They could have been on the road long ago.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 10:58 am
What’s up with the wheels on that mule? Is that damn thing rollin’ on four temp spares, or what?
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:08 am
They sure look like they had a comfortable ride.. lol!
(I’m sure it was just bad timing with the photo, however :p)
And yeah, the two miles piece confuses me too.
Did they only drive it 2 miles?
Did they only let wagoner drive it 2 miles?
Lol.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:09 am
“What’s up with the wheels on that mule? Is that damn thing rollin’ on four temp spares, or what?”
He didn’t want to look like a drug dealer rolling up on 28″ chrome low-profiles
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:10 am
Best part of this post…..
“It was indeed a Cruze body but had special decals on the outside in particular one stating “VOLT TECHNOLOGY INSIDE.”
THAT is what I want…without the decals.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:10 am
I’m not a fear monger, but the old saying is “as GM goes, so goes the country”. If GM doesn’t get some assistance–doesn’t have to be a blank check–this country will see the depths of a depression. For the sake of our country, I hope that something meaningful is done soon.
Great to see the Volt, in whatever shell, on the road. I hope GM will take note that the e-flex can be deployed under many different body types and perhaps even licensed to competitors. This certainly isn’t about the Volt’s body style–if it was we’d still have the concept–its about whats under the hood (and down the center of the vehicle).
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:13 am
Sheesh. That thing looks horrendous. Throw on some hubcaps, at least! CNN.com tagged the photo as, “GM CEO Rick Wagoner arrives on Capitol Hill in a Chevy Volt prototype. (Getty Images)”. They’re calling it a prototype. People will think the Volt is going to look like this.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:18 am
That’s some bad parking.
As for the 2 mile issue, did you want him to circle the parking lot until something went wrong?
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:24 am
@ 11 :
Good point there. Most people probably won’t understand what a mule is; or that the Cruze body is just a testbed for the Volt drivetrain.
That’s unfortunate. IMO the production Volt looks pretty sharp.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:25 am
The 2 miles. Well he likely stayed in a hotel about 2 miles away.
Probably cheaper than staying at a hotel 0.5 miles away too
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:26 am
scott #11 — That thing looks horrendous. Throw on some hubcaps, at least!
At least??? At least it has Volt Tech inside should be your concern. I’d drive it with those steel wheels.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Daveo #9k, 15
Me too,
Regards
JC NPNS
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:37 am
I’d like to buy the prototype.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:41 am
Why bother fitting a Cruze body on the Volt technology when both cars won’t go into production until 2010 anyway? I understood the whole Malibu-Volt mule thing but how does this make sense?
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:41 am
I’m all for the Volt BUT against the bailout.
With that said, for them to drive up in a “Frankenstein” version of what they will tout as their “new technology” is just tacky.
Thats just IMHO
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Q>What part of town did you drive through to get here?
A>Me and whitey stopped by the L’ Street Cast N’ Keg to grab a bottle of hypnotic. When we walked out we found the Volt jacked and all crossed up. I had to call Midas and get these temps put on. Man, why is everyone always getting up in my grill! The dude said the 4 temps will cost $280. I told him, “Man I only got a dollar. Can you slide me until next pay season?”
______________________
Wags can’t be accused of over-bling this trip.
=D~
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:46 am
What a change!!! Just few years ago they scraped EV1 and now GM Board driving ugly electric mule to Capitol Hill!!!! That ’s symbolic. EV1 team shall be proud and happy.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:49 am
whew . thank God . for a while there i thought Wagoner is gonna use a real mule ….
good luck Rick . many are praying for a great performance today.
Go GM Go !
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Did anyone else see Michael Moore on “Larry King Live” last night? He said basically what was quoted in Rudi’s excellent comment yesterday. I have to agree with him that putting billions of public dollars in the hands of these existing “management” groups is not only a waste, but an insult to American taxpayers. What’s the old saying? Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting the results to change.
Many have commented here on the fact that these companies “turned on a dime” and switched almost instantly from cars to military equipment at the beginning of WWII. That was financed with public money. President-Elect Obama has repeatedly promised to convert this industry into successful producers of high efficiency cars, to help get us off foreign oil and combat global warming. This goal is just as important as winning WWII, IMHO.
Let’s get on with “The moral equivalent of war”. Simply writing checks to the likes of Wagoner, Nardelli and whatever his name is from Ford (Mullaley?) is not going to get it.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
The way I see it, GM needs an organizational overhaul. If it happens now, Honda and Toyota will really have the upper hand. You know Honda and Toyota are praying that GM fails. They cannot compete with GM’s very efficient V6 engine (V6 Malibu get about the same gas mileage as a 4-cylinder Honda or Toyota) which Honda’s and Toyota’s V6 engines cannot get anywhere near the gas mileage as Chevrolet’s or Pontiac’s.
All that said, I would like to see GM pull through and get some sort of a loan but also with the organizational overhaul… from top to bottom.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
@23 :
“I have to agree with him that putting billions of public dollars in the hands of these existing “management” groups is not only a waste, but an insult to American taxpayers.”
If the 34B the auto companies are asking for is a slap to the face of taxpayers, what is the trillion that the bankers walked off with ?
Now consider the criminal cooking of the books and such that the execs at Fanny and Freddie etc have been caught doing… can anyone find a single comparable act by any of the auto companies ?
The double standard is just amazing. And this is coming from someone who’s no friend of the UAW. Just someone who calls it like he sees it…
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
#25 DB Cooper:
Well amen. I could not agree with you more. Mr. Moore had a number of chioce words on that issue as well. I almost added some to my previous comment, but I just decided to cut it short.
He referred to the looting of the Treasury as a sort of last great gift to the friends of the current administration. I have a hard time disagreeing. I have referred to it as being like the fleeing government of some third world country loading the gold out of the treasury onto army trucks as the rebels sweep into the capitol.
I am just saying that two wrongs don’t make a right, even if the first one is 100, nay 1000, times worse than the second.
I am a great GM supporter. Our family owns 7 Chevrolets, from 1917 to 2006. I devoutly hope that it survives and prospers. I am only saying that more of business as usual is going to make things worse, not better. This is the opportunity for the radical change that will save the industry. Better that than the incremental death of a thousand cuts.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
#22 coach
“whew . thank God . for a while there i thought Wagoner is gonna use a real mule ….”
Hehe, thanks for the laugh….
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
That is irony that just a few short years ago, GM was pulling out all the stops to make everyone forget about the EV1 so they could produce Hummers (which are so profitable) and now they are in dire straights having eaten enough electric car crow to drive to capitol hill in one asking for a bridge loan until they can make them again. Whoever killed the electric car ought to be mercilessly bloodied and made to work every day of their lives repaying the tax payers for possibly killing our last chance at getting off oil before it gets too late. Even if we start to produce electric cars in 2010. We are still at least 5 years behind where we could be and it will take at least 10 years to really see much of a difference in oil consumption.
They really do need to get more forward thinking people in charge and keep it that way. This guy pretty much says it all.
http://finance.yahoo.com/tech-ticker/article/138879/Roubini-Bail-Out-the-Automakers-But-Only-on-These-Conditions…?tickers=F,GM,^DJI,^GSPC,TEN,TRW,GT
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
#24 Arkansas
Now is the BEST time to go through chapter 11, its a down time for car sales anyway, and its not coming back to soon
Does Wags look like hes having trouble getting out of the mule?
NO PLUG NO SALE, LJGTVWOTR, (my house =D~~~~~(my volt)
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
This is an historic day for EV’s …
I can’t count how many times an obscure advance development project turns into a critical showpiece to Boards of Directors, and, in this case, the federal government. All parties are recognizing the significance of this development project.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Dog and Pony Show !
Take the money and run while you can.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
A year ago I was counting the days until the current administration was over. Since November though… not so much. I fear for what the next administration might be like, but I’m looking for the potential positives as well.
I do sincerely hope the next administration does something to level the trade playing field while we still have some jobs left in our own country. Traditionally the Dems have had a more realistic view of world trade than the Reps.
But the bankers that just got their money had a lot more connections to congress than the white house. Just a thought, but maybe the big three should pool their bailout money and buy up some senators – it might go a lot farther towards viability than just trying to make cars with it. That approach has been shown to work in the recent past.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:36 pm
The media , the bloggers , Michael Moore and the U.S. Congress need to answer this quiz .
Perhaps if Roger and his UAW friend ( including his father ) were not so radical , the GM and the auto industry will not be in such a dire condition .
Quiz Time:
Q: Who was awarded the 2008 Motor Trend Car of the year?
A: Cadillac CTS – yes, a GM product, beating out BMWs best new offering
Q: Who was awarded the 2008 North American Car of the year?
A: Chevrolet Malibu – yes, another GM product, defeating the all-new Honda Accord
Q: Who was awarded the 2007 North American Car of the year?
A: Saturn Aura – your probably seeing a trend here – this time, that GM product defeated the then all-new Toyota Camry
Q: Who was awarded the 2008 Green Car of the year?
A: Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid – yes, this full-sized gas-guzzling GM SUV matches the city gas mileage of a 4-cyl Toyota Camry
Please keep in mind that these awards are voted on by hundreds of automotive journalists/critics. Back to the quiz.
Q: Who owns the market on hybrid city buses?
A: If you’re thinking GM, you are correct! Hybrid technology is best suited for this type of product. In fact, small-vehicle products like the Prius have much fewer benefits. GM has owned this hybrid bus market for over 7 years now.
I could go on, but people may have already stopped reading by now because they may not believe it – please, just google it – these are all facts.
I will leave GM’s numerous quality and productivity awards for next week’s quiz – maybe some of the posters can do their own research and get the facts – you may have a better chance of passing the quiz. One hint for the next quiz – research which automaker has had the most recalls over the past 3 years – you may be surprised to find out it’s a Japanese company called ‘Toyota’ and that they own that distinction by a mile.
I am posting this because I have read thread after thread of how slow GM is, how they haven’t done anything to change their product portfolio, and how GM needs to wake up.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
If you have the backbone for it, here is a streaming feed of the hearings, it has been pretty dry the last XX hours, lol:
http://www.wxyz.com/content/video/stream.aspx
/feel the excitement of democratic bureaucracy
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
That car needs some BLING hubcaps!
Run Rick Run, Go get the money!
GO “Any car company who make EV’s”, GO EV !
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
#10 D Lo Says: “I’m not a fear monger, but the old saying is “as GM goes, so goes the country”. If GM doesn’t get some assistance–doesn’t have to be a blank check–this country will see the depths of a depression.”
————————————————————————————–
Well said.
What most people don’t realize that that not saving GM will probably cost taxpayers more than saving them.
Right now, Congress is considering loans and lines of credit to the big 3 car makers totaling $34B, with strings attached. The strings include:
• If they go under, U.S. loans would be first-in-line to be repaid from their assets.
• The U.S. would oversee their restructuring.
• No dividends, bonuses, or other perks until the loan is repaid.
If GM and Chrysler go chapter 11,
• Studies show consumers are reluctant to buy cars from bankrupt companies.
• Parts suppliers will also go bankrupt.
• The lack of parts suppliers will likely cause Ford to go bankrupt as well.
• For every person that works directly for an auto maker, parts supplier, or dealership, there are 2 more people that get their livelihood from the auto industry indirectly. These include retailers, construction workers, restaurant workers, plumbers, etc.
Bottom line: GM’s failure would lead to a ripple affect that would lead to as many as 3 million lost jobs. This would cost taxpayers $100B in lost tax revenue and unemployment benefits. And this all assumes that the that the problems of the auto industry don’t spill over into other markets.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Don’t take this the wrong way here, but isn’t it somewhat appropriate that the mule has to hub caps!
I’m for bankruptcy, no bailout, comeback stronger.
Truth hurts sometimes.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Nobody got a video?
How silent it was over there?
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Don’t cars need to meet crash test standards before they can be driven on public roads?
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
I agree that the volt mule’s real purpose is to show off the tech, but come on, stop at a GM dealer before you drive up to capital hill and buy 4 hub caps!
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Whatever the outcomes as this saga progresses over the next weeks and months, today is an absolutely great day! It is amazing and wonderful to see a real electric car being driven up to the congress by the GM CEO. That is especially so when the drive is so obviously taken as a symbolic step into the future of the automobile industry.
I am well aware of all the positives and negatives mentioned in the comments above, but gee whiz sometimes one has to step back and be amazed at what is happening. Just a short while ago I would not have though it possible.
And congratulations Lyle.
Sustained interest is what has kept the Volt alive.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
34 Statik:
Your country’s political theater is much more interesting today.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Great !!, Wondering somebody is going to post more shots of the car
Bad parking comments : Happens when a person is a new driver, he was always using jets and never had a parking problems. Its a great feeling when the CEO drives the common man’s car. Even i think he drove a malibu for first time. Welcome aboard !! .
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
#36 DaveG
How is this not fear-mongering? Suggesting that the entire economy is resting on a few billion dollars to a few companies grossly underestimates the resiliency & diversity of our economy. Large companies go bust all the time, it doesn’t cause an economic death spiral. The best way to get into a downward death spiral in the economy is if the gov’t destroys value creation like they did in the great depression with tariffs, knee jerk policies that paralyzed investments, and bad monetary policies. The idea that the automotive industry can collapse, even though people still want to buy million of cars, is a frankly little silly.
Realistically, supply must contract to meet demand. It’s not going to overcontract given the large capital investments in building automotive plants and the expected future demand. In other words, it’s cheaper to temporarily hold a non-profitable plant rather than quickly build a plant when demand goes up…and everyone expects it to go back up. So supply will contract somewhat but still remain well above the short-term demand.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
@coach 33
Well, now one has to ask after reading your post….
Q: Who had the technology to go hybrid but failed to market it in a huge market now dominated by foreign mfgrs for consumer vehicles?
A: GM
I can go on but there’s no need.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Those missing hubcaps are probably being used as collection plates inside the senate.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 1:56 pm
#46 Mark Z
LOL. Ohh that’s funny.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
#45
Q: Who funded over 50% of the research and development of hybrid vehicles that Toyota now makes?
A: The Government of Japan.
It is amazing how other countries support there industry but we just tell our companies here to screw off. Also isn’t it funny how the automakers have come forward with plans to restructure while the banks are just given blank check and companies like AIG take over 100 billion dollars and give their executives bonuses and lavish trips.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
They did it right today. Now Congess lets see the money. I want my Volt…. Hell the mule (or prototype) they drove today would look good in my driveway.
Take Care,
TED
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
@Sean 48
“A: The Government of Japan.”
Yup, you hit right on the head. The socialist/Communist Gvt of Japan. So I guess you think that’s the direction we should go?
Folks need to get the differences between a loan and a bailout.
Tha banks got a bailout. Free money. Yup, no need to pay it back,
The big 3 are asking for a loan. Now if anyone has ever gone to a bank and asked for a business loan to start a business, guess what your asked for? Yup, a plan.
Now, our “Free Market” assumes you take the risk of failing if you cant sell your product. EVERY business takes that risk. There are Millions of businesses. What makes the Big 3 so special as to exempt them?
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
#48 Sean
But mom, everyone else is doing it.
Mom: If your friends jumped of a cliff….
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
The Japanese are notorious for taking care of there own for which i have no problem with at all but if they do it then why can’t we take care of our own here!!!
It is really okay to give away free money to the banks that caused alot these problems with the freezing of the credit markets.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Sean @ 48 makes a great point. JAPANESE AUTO was built on the back of its GOVERNMENT DOLLARS. The same thing is happening in China.
Now, since energy independence is VITAL today, and the US government only hampers its industry (through taxes and excessive safety and emissions regs), it’s time to ease up and support the cause. I hate bailouts by the way, but give our industry a CHANCE to compete.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Hey #51,
Instead of trying to make fun why don’t you write something with some substance to it.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Love the wheels. Very ghetto…
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
#53
Thank you, I am not a fan of Bailout either but lets at least give ourselves a chance to compete in this GLOBAL market.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
#4 MarkinWI
This pre-packaged plan has been discussed and offered by a number in the Republican party in and out of congress for more than a month. Mitt Romney, for one, has outlined what he thinks is a workable plan and presented it back in early November. It is good to hear the Obama “camp” is now getting on board. I am sure the authorship of the plan will be recognized a coming from his party even though he is a little late to the idea.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
I dont see what the big deal is. Its a loan not a grant just give it to them. How many people do the big three employ? Im from Canada but your piss poor leadership and economy affects us up north. Get it together people.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
44 Cautious Fan:
You are assuming an awful lot. In fact…what your little economics lesson fails to clarify is how BAD it will be for awhile during the contraction (and yes, it will overcontract. You don’t liquidate multiple companies producing several million vehicles a year and not have the market overcontract) takes place. Given the current fiscal climate who will get funding to fill the gap left by bankrupt parts suppliers? nobody. Who will get the loans to purchase the shuttered factories? nobody.
The BEST case under your hope is that individual divisions of Ford, GM, and Chrysler get funding to go it alone without the Big 3.
This is not like any other industry in the US. There is a ridiculously high barrier to entry into the automotive market…even on the supplier end.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
#26 Noel Park
Sorry, but I don’t agree with you about the looting the treasury statement. Congress was asked for 150 billion and came up with 700 billion. Congress gave the green light to all that is happening with no oversight, strings or controls whatsoever. To blame the outgoing administration is taking the easy way out and settling for the same old tired phrasing we have seen for eight years. Blame Bush for everything that happens that is viewed as “bad” and give him no credit whatsoever for anything he does good. Nothing he does is ever viewed as “good”. Sorry, but I don’t agree with such a blanket statement as you and others on this site are saying. I don’t agree with much the Bush administration is doing or has done over the eight years, but he doesn’t deserve all of the blame for any of this. Congress had dirty hands in this going all the way back to the early 1990s.
Edit: I know you were repeatin what Moore said, but by repeating it we have to assume you agree with it since you made no statement of disagreement. Michael Moore is not an authority that I usually care to reference, personally. Some people may consider him a light in the darkness, but I consider him a darkness in the darkness.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
From the Senate hearing. Chrysler Chairman agrees to merger if made a requirement for receiving government loans. GM open to the idea. UAW expresses doubt about efficencies to be gained.
N Riley @60 – I don’t think your portrayal of the evolution from 150 billion to 700 billion is accurate if you are implying that Bush/Paulson did not play a large role in the increase. Also, Treasury has used its “authority” independent of Congress, and some estimates put the actual outlays by Treasury at closer to $7 trillion. Congress’ hands all over it? Yes. But the administration played a very large role.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
The reason that the companies are asking for the loan or bailout is because no bank will finance them anymore because its a bad investment in a failed business model. The difference in the other bailouts is that the companies still had a valid business model. Bankruptcy is really their best option right now, but the CEOs are too arrogant to admit it.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
This is interesting:
The congressman just ask Wagoner in respect to producing a specific model quickly to adjust to market conditions how much does that cost and how quick could he do it.
Wagoner’s answer: “500 million and maybe get it done in 3 years”
/a lot of truth at these hearings, and a little reality check for the Volt program
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
#33 Coach
Thanks for the quiz. It was interesting and informative. Can’t wait to see other quizzes. I think most of us have seen or heard these facts but they get buried by all the bad press we see about American vehicles and what we continually hear our families and friends say. You think about it for a while and you realize that most people are only parroting what they hear or read in the media with out taking the time and effort to look up the real facts. That’s how we are controlled today by the media and their politician partners. We are just too dumb and lazy to care enough to check for ourselves.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
> “What’s up with the wheels on that mule? Is that damn thing rollin’ on four
> temp spares, or what?”
LOL – 60 comments and we have no one on here from North of Kentucky?
Up here in Canada wheels like that are status symbols – not everyone can afford a separate set of shiny black steel wheels for their SNOW TIRES.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
#60 N Riley:
The guy is the President of the United States. He’s not responsible? Not to restate the obvious, but Mr. Paulson is a creature of the President, not the Congress.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
#42 Morgan said,
“Statik, Your country’s political theater is much more interesting today.”
————-
Yeah, they suspended goverment through January.
Basically, the other three parties all got in a twist because the minority gov’t tried to cut party funding based on election performance…which kinda was a a**hat move at this point.
Now they are all spouting ‘high horse’ ideals and morals. Nobody wants the coalition gov’t because it includes a more radical ’seperatist’ party out of Quebec and the guy that would be the new PM (of the coalition gov’t (from the Liberal Party)) is widely not liked…and was in the process of losing his job when this all started.
This suspension of parliament basically means the Conservatives (the minority) win. The coalition didn’t want a delay…they are going to take too much heat, and the gov’t basically can’t operate over the next couple months.
What this means now is that when it comes back the gov’t comes back the Conservatives will immediately table the budget, if it passes life goes on…or if they vote it down/non-confidence we will have another election (which likely will return the same result or give the Conservatives the majority (because people don’t want to go back and vote repeatedly))
Side note: We just had a election 7 weeks ago. I think 90% of the public is basically just pissed at this point, regardless of who they voted for.
It isn’t really a big deal to the people or to the market…it is just one of those freak happenings.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
N Riley @57 – I did not mean to imply authorship of idea. But with a Democratic Congress, team Obama’s views on what is acceptable will have a lot more to do with the parameters than team Romney. Mitt may be a brilliant guy, but last time I checked he does not currently hold any elected office, and so has no real political power.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
The automakers and the UAW are getting pasted right now in the hearings…and the market is feeling it pretty bad.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
#68 MarkinWI
Agreed, more or less. Romney has some input just by speaking out on the national level. Congress SHOULD listen to Obama, you better believe it. I am just glad to see him come around to that pre-packaged C11 plan. Whether it is a good idea is not for me to say.
I do believe a good, concise bankruptcy plan backed by government financing is the best way to reorganize these three companies for the future. If just given the money and let to their own governance, we are looking at a ten year period at minimum, possibly much longer. I, personally, would purchase a car from GM if they were in a bankruptcy situation backed by government financing to insure access to capital to get them through it. As long as the auto company successfully completes C11 their vehicle warranties should be just as good as if they never entered C11.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Noel Park –
I know Paulson is a “creature” of the Bush administration, but the bail-out plan was primarily a creature of the congress. They loaded so much pork into the plan to insure passage that I was hoping Bush would not sign it. But he did. Congress had the opportunity to place controls and oversight on the bail-out and require restrictions and pay back by the companies receiving the bail-out money, but they failed to do so. That is where I place most of the blame for this bail-out mess. Bush should not have signed it.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Dear Comrades, just got off the phone with Homer Simpson, where is loyalty in Bushovia, comrade Simpson say that if GM reitired and there off spring where to buy GM products would great capitalist company be in better shape?????? Guess not any loyalty left for company that help provide for you and your family over the years. So we can assume comrades no loyalty left in Bushovia but I have Amerikanski flag on back of my used Corolla with 100 thousand miles on it and I get good deal only pay 14 thousand bucks american for fine car much better than new base Chevy Cobalt new for 10k I’am smart Amercanski. HAVE A GOOD DAY COMRADES ENJOY DEPRESSION DA .
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
I think we are realizing here that the unions have lost there power are they should just disband. These bloated contracts that they have been using for years to pay someone $20 per hour to install lug nuts with full health care and pension is crazy. I am a registered engineer where I live and i won’t get a Pension or health care that is nearly as good as theirs is.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
Mark the time 3:42. FInally, the thing is over….6 hours+
/my butt is numb
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
N Riley @70/71 – I appreciate your comments.
(R) Corker – Tenn seems to be pushing the following conditions: (1) Chrylser/GM merger, estimated to save $8 billion a year; (2) UAW compensation parity with transplants – Dodd chimed in that on pure wages UAW workers are avg. $28 per hour v. $25 per hour at the Toyota plant in Tennesee; (3) concessions from the UAW on the “sub” issue, I assume that this refers to the Toyota practice of having approximately 50% of its plant workforce as temporary workers, who receive lower wages and no benefits, he did not expand.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
I put my vote in for smooth easy to clean hubcaps, that way when I jump you at a traffic light I can clean them with a quick wipe with my old dirty rag, and then put my hand out for a dollar.
Red HHR (with naked dirty exposed lug nuts)
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
NEWS
Energy department DENIES retooling loans.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081204/AUTO01/812040464/1148/rss25
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
#75
If 50% or anywheres near that number of Toyota workers are temps then they need [Lord I hate to say it] to join the UAW. To do skilled work and be a temp with no benifits [HEALTH INSURANCE] is, in my opinion shamefull. The fact that it gives them an additional cost advantage over the domestic builders is certain, but is very wrong to do this TO their employees. That could lead good workers into bankruptcy and stick the tax payers with the cost.
Seems that few could argue with this as a reason to not buy Toyota.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
#71 N Riley:
I wrote to my Senators and my Representative, asking them not to pass the bill. That said, I guess if Bush and Paulson didn’t want the extra $550 billion, they could have just not spent it. Oops, too late, $200 billion of it is already gone. Well how about if they just dion’t spend the remaining $350 billion? Suits me just fine. I’ve got $5 (I hope) says that every dime is gone by January 20. I sure hope they prove me wrong.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Good morning everyone, got up early to see how things are going.
#18 Why bother fitting a Cruze body on the Volt technology when both cars won’t go into production until 2010 anyway? I understood the whole Malibu-Volt mule thing but how does this make sense?</i<
Testing, testing, testing & more testing.
In NZ ,November new car registrations off 20% from October. Exciting times.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
#75 MarkinWI
We have a Nissan plant just north of me in Canton, MS. Some of their workers are contract workers. Many of the suppliers for the plant employ many contract workers who they can terminate at a moments notice. My daughter was one of them that was let go after they called and called her to come to work for them again (they had terminated her once prior to re-hiring her through the temp agency). Most of the Japanese auto plants and their suppliers keep labor cost down by going through temp agencies. Eliminates a lot of cost – pension, health and taxes, for instance.
Dodd’s numbers are probably not entirely correct. I suspect he doesn’t want to be on record stating the true cost per hour which is certainly well over the figure he quoted. He is not taking into consideration taxes paid on each wage where a contract worker has no taxes paid by the auto company. I suspect he is leaving out a number of other items.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
#44 Cautious Fan – “Suggesting that the entire economy is resting on a few billion dollars to a few companies grossly underestimates the resiliency & diversity of our economy. Large companies go bust all the time, it doesn’t cause an economic death spiral. ”
At some point dogmatic adherence to even the best abstracted reality becomes stupidity. A few companies? As described at the Senate hearing just today by the CEO of Johnson Controls, the supply chain involves hundreds of companies, each one critical in some way to all the automakers, not only to the Detroit 3 but to the the transplants. If the Detroit automakers go down the supply chain will also go down, taking the entire NA auto industry with it.
For this reason among others, the failure which you dismiss as no big deal was described as “cataclysmic” by the chief economist from Moodys, Mark Zandi. So who are we to believe? People with opinions but no credentials (sometimes described as “cranks”), or professionals with advanced degrees who aren’t employed by the any of the auto companies? Rather than just saying it’s no big deal, I challenge you to find a respected economist who DOESN’T say it’s a big deal.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
@old man
Now why? in a market that is known for going up then down, would you want to hire permanent employees? In bad times you do what they then called a “Reduction In Force” and dump the temps. The temps uderstand they are volitile.
Also, “Skilled” is a relative term. I worked at HP and “Skilled” means you can push a button and read the outputs and record them.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
74 Statik Mark the time 3:42. FInally, the thing is over….6 hours+
So what happened? How was the mood? What do you think they will do?
/Tap, tap, tap, I’m waiting!
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
@74 Statik
Ditto…
Wassup?
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
#79 Noel Park
I can’t disagree with what you said. I suspect it will be gone, but not necessarily before January 20th. I don’t think we will see any real reduction in bail-out spending under the Obama administration. Very likely an increase in spending. We can all hope for the best. I did not vote for Obama, but I certainly wish him well. I admire what he has accomplished and he is doing many of the right things at this time. I, as do most Americans, want to see him become a great President and govern much closer to the middle than how he articulated during the summer and fall. I do wish him luck.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:21 pm
82 DonC
At some point dogmatic adherence to even the best abstracted reality becomes stupidity. A few companies? As described at the Senate hearing just today by the CEO of Johnson Controls, the supply chain involves hundreds of companies, each one critical in some way to all the automakers, not only to the Detroit 3 but to the the transplants. If the Detroit automakers go down the supply chain will also go down, taking the entire NA auto industry with it.
Did you see the post from the Toyota engineer the other day, where he said if GM goes they all go for a minimum of 12 months while they get new suppliers retooled and running. Also not a cheap process.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Gas is off over $3 again.
Jan 09 trading at $43.46
If anyone told me in the summer we could see 99 cents again at the pumps again, I would have had a good chuckle…now it is within the realm of possibility.
Couple bad reports tomorrow and a large automaker failure on monday should just about do it.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Go back up to the top and watch the YouTube video that Lyle posted late.
Of particular note to Volt fans — that mule is utterly soundless in motion.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Statik #63 says,
The congressman just ask Wagoner in respect to producing a specific model quickly to adjust to market conditions how much does that cost and how quick could he do it.
Wagoner’s answer: “500 million and maybe get it done in 3 years”
—————
Statik, was he referring to the Volt?
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
@ 83 Statik:
Gas is off over $3 again.
Jan 09 trading at $43.46
I am staggered by how much and how fast the market has fallen. it was only four months ago I was expecting oil to trade 150 -180 for December. Major oil megaprojects are being put on hold, or deferred, all over the world. Unlike the 1930’s we won’t have the benefit of cheap oil to pull us out of the coming depression. Still going out to June the markets are in contango.
Oh yeah, nearly forgot, if the price averages $45 for December, that will give a yearly average of ~$103 or double the 2007 average!
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
#89 Jackson says,
The congressman just ask Wagoner in respect to producing a specific model quickly to adjust to market conditions how much does that cost and how quick could he do it.
Wagoner’s answer: “500 million and maybe get it done in 3 years”
——————
And was that a Valet that drove off in it? If so, that is so unfair that he got to before any of us did. whaaah.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:34 pm
#84 NZDavid
74 Statik said, “Mark the time 3:42. FInally, the thing is over….6 hours+”
–
So what happened? How was the mood? What do you think they will do?
/Tap, tap, tap, I’m waiting!
————————————–
#85 CaptJackSparrow
@74 Statik
Ditto…
Wassup?
===============================
You’ll notice I really didn’t have anything to say all day? lol.
A lot was said, but it is easy to get caught up in what these little hearings say and do…a lot of meat and potatoes, but it is still just a meeting at the end of the day (I will note there was only TWO people left from the committee still in attendance at the end…sad)
Many interesting (and a lot of dumb) things were said. It is almost impossible to forecast how a vote will go down…although we can glean a little of what they might actually vote on.
I will say I have a lot more respect for Corker today. He clearly is the guy that is doing all the work. Like how that bondholders are not going to accept 20 cents on the dollar if the gov’t gets involved…and how a similar situation unfolds getting the UAW to agree to the concessions it needs to if they know the gov’t is backing the big 2.8 by printing limitless money (his words…not mine).
The main thing I see coming out of the 6+ hours of endless prattling, is Corker is likely to get a ‘drop dead clause’ in the package.
Basically, if the bondholders don’t agree to a certain amount (I’ll say 25 to 30 cents on the dollar) and the UAW (and others) don’t agree to/ratify certain benchmarks by a set time (he proposed March 31st) that at that moment all actions cease…and specifically GM/Chrysler would file for bankruptcy. In essence holding a gun to their heads with pre-set terms…they can agree to them, or get nothing.
He is right in the fact that if the gov’t signs up to back GM and Chrysler (Ford will gain benefit from association) the attitude from debt holders, union workers and suppliers will be to not back down, but rather they will ratchet up their demands and expectations…and to suckle off the gov’t indefinitely.
Likely, we will see no clear answer through friday and they will do another ’secret phone around/lobby session’ for votes over the weekend and rumor of the result will ooze out sometime on sunday.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Speaking of oil prices, there are people here complaining they signed contracts this summer for anywhere from $3.49 – $5.00 a gallon.
These contracts will carry them through this winter.
I’m so glad I didn’t sign anything.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
#71 N. Riley – “I know Paulson is a “creature” of the Bush administration, but the bail-out plan was primarily a creature of the congress … Bush should not have signed it.”
Not sign it? For Pete’s sake, he ASKED for it. As a factual matter, the bill was largely written by Paulson and Bernake, who said it had to be passed immediately or else the world would end. The few oversight provisions in the bill were added by Congress. If you don’t like what passed you really wouldn’t like the original which had no oversight provisions whatsoever.
Now, the facts are that it’s actually working. International credit flows have been restored. Paulson and Bernake may have been remiss in not moving faster on the consumer credit and foreclosure front, and they were certainly remiss in not attaching any strings while giving away hundreds of billions of dollars, but TARP seems to be working. Seems initially like a qualified success.
Regardless of its success or failure of TARP, why would you say it was primarily a creature of congress? It wasn’t.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
#90 Rashiid
Statik #63 says,
The congressman just ask Wagoner in respect to producing a specific model quickly to adjust to market conditions how much does that cost and how quick could he do it.
Wagoner’s answer: “500 million and maybe get it done in 3 years”
—————
Statik, was he referring to the Volt?
================================
No, he actually used just a basic car as reference…the Cruze specifically. (Glad you actually responded to that post though…I thought that was a huge admission in relation to the Volt program).
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
#91 NZDavid
@ 83 Statik:
Gas is off over $3 again.
Jan 09 trading at $43.46
I am staggered by how much and how fast the market has fallen. it was only four months ago I was expecting oil to trade 150 -180 for December. Major oil megaprojects are being put on hold, or deferred, all over the world. Unlike the 1930’s we won’t have the benefit of cheap oil to pull us out of the coming depression. Still going out to June the markets are in contango.
Oh yeah, nearly forgot, if the price averages $45 for December, that will give a yearly average of ~$103 or double the 2007 average!
=================================
There are very, very few existing fields/rigs that can produce oil at a profit for under $40. And almost all of those are in countries that require a lot more of a profit margin to prop up their governments.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:48 pm
#87 NZDavid – “Did you see the post from the Toyota engineer the other day, where he said if GM goes they all go for a minimum of 12 months while they get new suppliers retooled and running.”
I didn’t see that specific quote but I’ve seen many saying more or less the same thing. When you assemble a car you have to have every single part. If you’re missing one or two you might as well have none at all. You can’t sell a car without a steering wheel. While you wait to find another source everyone sits on the sidelines and no one is working.
#93 Statik – “The main thing I see coming out of the 6+ hours of endless prattling is Corker is likely to get a ‘drop dead clause’ in the package.”
In truth the auto industry financial problem would be much better dealt with under TARP than through separate legislation. Having Congress try and write conditions is not going to work as well. The latitude under TARP is similar to what you’d have in a bankruptcy proceeding, and Treasury can easily obtain the expertise it needs. Maybe Paulson needs to come back from China.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Right.
After they flew int he private jets.
Look – I want GM to be top of the hill again – but let’s call a spade a spade.
They have had years to do this.
It’s not the MARKET conditions – it’s their business model.
Toyota and honda are not asking for hand outs.
They KILLED the first electric car.
I am a HUGE supported of the Volt – but let us not forget the past folks. No – we need not shout it from the roof tops every single day – but let’s not pretend the MARKET is responsible for GM’s downfall. They have made the bed they are sleeping in.
Now they want you to re-make that bed
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
@93 Statik:
Basically, if the bondholders don’t agree to a certain amount (I’ll say 25 to 30 cents on the dollar) and the UAW (and others) don’t agree to/ratify certain benchmarks by a set time (he proposed March 31st) that at that moment all actions cease…and specifically GM/Chrysler would file for bankruptcy.
So that means really, really, flat sales through to March while everyone waits to see if the deal gets done. Ouchy!
————————————————————————-
On the good news front, Tagamet, remember in July when I went and saw the man who is now NZ’s Prime Minister about Volt/EV subsidys? Well the new (proposed) policy is NO mileage taxes on EV’s until they get to 20% of the fleet. That is a BIG deal, woo hoo.
I sure hope the Volt is about to take advantage of it!
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
#83
A few temps is acceptable but not any thing close to 50% can be justified.
The reason is simply cost, and it puts our producers at a strong disadvantage
Agreed, button pushers are not particularly skilled but they still need health care and it is provided by the domestic car companys.
Those working the line have million dollar machines under their control. [probably not temps]
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
statik Says:
Mark the time 3:42. FInally, the thing is over….6 hours+
/my butt is numb
————-
I watched from noon to 1:30pm.. that was enough.. same BS over and over. Nothing new.
I find it funny that 6hours is a long time for them. Good to see my tax dollars at work for those part timers. I have an idea.. why dont they lock the doors and no one is allowed to leave until they have a resolution?
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:18 pm
I think we can all agree on some of the reasons the auto companies find themselves in these straits.
1- bad management decisions
2- union demands accepted by the auto companies
3- much higher gasoline and diesel prices
4- selling gas guzzlers when they should have known better regardless of what the customers were demanding
5- financial crunch puts the finishing touch on it
You can probably add a few more, but these are the essential items I would list as the cause of the Big Three’s downfall. Going to be pretty tough any which way they go to pull out of this mess. Best chance is that only two will make it (GM & Ford) and probably only one (Ford). But I suspect that if Ford makes it it will be a very long and difficult road.
Edit: When you get right down to it, bad management decisions really cover the top 4 reasons. Although you can’t blame the management for the rising prices of gas & diesel. But they knew that it was coming around again and we were running out of crude oil slowly. Had their heads stuck in the sand.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Last night I watched a program on the History Channel about the Manhattan Project. I know a lot of people here on this blog have mentioned a Manhattan project for electric cars. One factoid that jumped out at me was the US goverment spent 25 Billion (in today’s dollars) on the Manhattan Project. What a coincidence.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Call me crazy, but I like the “no hub caps” look in this situation. Hub caps are cheesy anyways. Clearly this car means business. No hub caps = prototype vehicle, still working hard so no need to put fancy rims on it. Unfortunately, the rear quarter looks like a Hyundai. Still, I like this publicity stunt!
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:25 pm
I wonder what John Delorean (also a former GM exec.) would do if his company was going down the tubes?
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
#103 N Riley Says:
2- union demands accepted by the auto companies
—————-
When the union is the size of the UAW, and a strike bankrupts you and your suppliers, you dont have much of a choice. Its more of just trying to do damage control at that point.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
N. Riley
Paulson’s original demand was for $700 Billion with no oversight and no questioning his decisions. Although there was some pork added, there were oversight conditions attached. The administration has just been a little slow to create the oversight organization.
Paulson is his own creature.
This whole mess is a result of deregulation. An analogy (not mine) is that it was like taking a bunch of children into a candy store and left unsupervised. We shouldn’t be suprised that they gorge themselves on candy and get sick and throw up on our shoes.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
@99 Ghost: Toyota and Honda are not asking for hand outs.
Indirectly they do. Eg the warrant of fitness law which requires a major (costly) inspection after three years and partial dissembly of the car at six years. Which is why their home construction base is so strong.
For this reason I support a bailout/loan that has PHEV’s and BEV’s only, available for sale from 2012 on, with government regulations to support this happening. Also to pick up on nasamans idea to rewrite the regs so all government fleets must buy a serial PHEV or better starting 2011.
If you’re going to do it, do it right, and do it big.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
In all seriousness, that’s a decent-looking car. If the Cruze body can knock a few thousand off the price compared with the blingy Volt, I’ll take it.
And there are people in my neighborhood who can supply hubcaps cheap.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
I think the Cruze body and the Volt body are both awesome.
The images remind me of Robocop’s car, lol.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
108 Kdawg
“When the union is the size of the UAW, and a strike bankrupts you and your suppliers, you dont have much of a choice. Its more of just trying to do damage control at that point.”
Which leads straight to a preference for making the higher-margin SUV’s and trucks over the lower-cost efficient cars; since the resulting high labor rates make it nearly impossible to sell small cars without taking a loss on every unit sold…
That’s a large piece of where the ‘bad business model’ came from.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Probably not the best timing, or thread, for this post, but, this looks good for Volt II.
General Motors Corporation (Warren, Mich.) has been selected for negotiation of an award for a 36-month, up to $4.6 million, DOE share of up to $2.3 million, project to develop a system that provides thermal comfort equivalent to current HVAC systems while using significantly less energy. The team will design, test, and evaluate the thermoelectric system components and then integrate the components into a demonstration vehicle for testing and evaluation. Partners include Delphi Thermal Systems, University of California at Berkeley, and University of Nevada at Las Vegas.
“http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/12/doe-to-fund-up.html#more”
/remove quote marks. Emphasis mine.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
“Partners include Delphi Thermal Systems, University of California at Berkeley, and University of Nevada at Las Vegas.”
Partners should be GMI and Michigan Tech.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
@119 Fanboy: In all seriousness, that’s a decent-looking car. If the Cruze body can knock a few thousand off the price compared with the blingy Volt, I’ll take it.
Nah, I’m way too shallow, if I have to spend 10K extra on Volt tech, I want everyone to know. I think that’s why hybrids don’t sell well when there’s a conventional equivalent for thousand’s cheaper. I am not alone, never underestimate the power of bragging rights IMHO.
Well there goes any credibility I had on this site, hehe.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
@DB Cooper 112
I agree. Maybe the corporate title shouldn’t be GM but “UAW”.
When a union can control your business that much, it’s no longer “Your” business.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
@NZDavid
I’m the opposite.
Give the bare bones Ghetto version of…
No pwr windows…
No pwr doors…
No pwr seats…
No radio (I have an mp3 player)…
No cruise control…
No power sunrof…(no sunroof period)
etc…
I’m jo the plumber butt. Cant even afford the “e”.
But I still want my Volt!
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
#96 Statik – “I thought that was a huge admission in relation to the Volt program”
I’m not following you here. An admission of what?
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Reid’s statements that they ’still don’t have the votes’ sounds like codespeak. Reid’s implying the players need to scrape up whatever cash they still have (UAW strike fund?) and make the appropriate ‘campaign contributions’ to round up the needed votes.
Sheesh. You’d think these guys would understand that. What country have they been living in all this time ?
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 6:18 pm
114 DB Cooper Says:
Partners should be GMI and Michigan Tech.
—————
I’m a GMI grad. Sadly the name has changed to Kettering University.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
“I’m a GMI grad. Sadly the name has changed to Kettering University.”
Yeah, I know. I still prefer “GMI”.
I’m a ‘tech grad. I still refer to McNair Hall as ‘Coed Hall’ lol.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 6:21 pm
#86 N Riley:
Thanks. You know that I agree with about 95% of your comments here. I am really trying to support comments I agree with and let the rest go. Sorry if I slipped a bit. Best regards.
#103 N Riley:
I agree, 100%.
#104 kdawg:
$25 billion in 2008 dollars for the Manhattan Project? Sounds cheap to me. We are going to spend more than that on a new fleet of tanker planes if the USAF can ever decide between Boeing and Airbus, LOL (through tears). 2.5 months of the Iraq war.
#109 NZDavid:
“If you’re going to do it, do it right, and do it big.” Amen brother. Preach on.
#115 NZDavid:
“I am not alone, never underestimate the power of bragging rights IMHO.” Amen to that too. It constitutes about 60+% of the appeal of the Prius, at least here in LA, IMHO. Maybe more.
You’re on a roll today pal!
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
#119 DB Cooper:
I might decode it a bit differently. Maybe he is telling them to scrape up whatever cash they have left and limp along until January 21 when the new President and Congress will be in place.
The cynical part of me thinks that the “Big 2.4″ (”2.1″?) are trying to take advantage of this seam between new Congresses and administrations. If they can scream “The sky is falling, we’ll collapse by January 1″ loud enough, maybe the lame ducks will just lay a few billion cash on them a la AIG, et al. If the new guys find their feet, they might actually come up with a plan with some effective oversight and restructuring provisions, God forbid!
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
#82 DonC says to #44 Cautious Fan “At some point dogmatic adherence to even the best abstracted reality becomes stupidity.”
=========================================
Please ease up on the name calling.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Perhaps I’m just easy to please, but I think that Cruze is pretty sharp looking. Black steel wheels are easy to replace with something nicer, the sheetmetal isn’t. I’d be happy to buy an EREV powered Cruze today if it was available. Assuming GM makes it through the next 3 years, I’m planning on buying a VOLT!
Mandating govt fleet purchases to be CNG capable did absolutely nothing to promote use of CNG because there was no filling stations. The CNG capable vehicles that my Air Force fleet managers bought were just operated on gasoline while we shook our heads about wasting all that money buying features we couldn’t use, but weren’t allowed to upgrade the purchase to include things like radios and air conditioning. If we mandate PHEVs, the lethargy and indifference that killed CNG will probably not be such a problem because we’ve got outlets everywhere! Mandating that every light vehicle sold in the US after 2012 be PHEV capable is NOT the answer, but elevating public awareness and making it affordable would make the demand for these products skyrocket.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 7:12 pm
I just assume that being in DC some stole the hubcaps.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 7:25 pm
#89 “Of particular note to Volt fans — that mule is utterly soundless in motion.”
Almost, but not quite. There was some kind of high frequency inverter whine or something as it pulled away at the end of the video. Or it may have just been the car leaking EMF and inducing the noise in the camera’s audio circuit…
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
@rob
My guess is it’s from the electric drive controllers. I’ve been around enough ev conversions that most whines come either from the drive controllers or the DC/DC converter. The Curtis controllers seem to come to mind in this.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
@Hal
…….while they were driving……lol….
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
I like the steel wheels. It’s just like the punk-@ss kids who keep their set of wide racing slicks in their back seats for illegal drag-racing, and run a cheap set of steel wheels while driving around town. It gives Wagoner some “street creed”
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
Wagoner should have been pulled over. I will bet he doesn’t have a current driver’s license. He looks like a guy who gets ‘driven’ to where he needs to go.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
GM, Excellent job! There it is for the world to see. I also was questioning the choice of using the worst possible wheels they could find but it does show that this is a serious prototype. It draws attention to the important technology inside. Does it matter what clothes Einstein wore?
Volt Technology Inside
That’s is what is important folks. GM is the leader in the world at this very moment. I hope GM employees can take that pride home with them. It’s something that not only every American to hold on to in this time of insecurity, it’s something for every person on earth who feels we are in deep trouble because of the petroleum situation to hold on to. If this car does make it to market in 2010, all the pieces of the puzzle are then in place for a serious transition away from petroleum and towards the eventual transition to renewable and sustainable transportation.
Most people see this as the last day, I see it as the first.
Companies come and go but technology is here to day.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
are you kidding me! what a piece of cr@%*&. the only car worth looking at is the Ford Fusion Hybrid. If Ford can launch this car with the numbers that they are claiming, then we’ll have a contender! The “Volt” with limited numbers and an expensive price tag is just a bust. Somebody said today,,,GM will be bankrupt in two years even with the “bailout”. We’ll see, Jd
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 10:09 pm
by the way…wirenutjd is a So. Cal. driver with many friends that drive for a living. It doesn’t matter what you think in &*%@(^ town there’s nobody there. In So. Cal. Honda’s and Toyota’s rule, GM has to overcome that in a State where it REALLY matters!
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
GM says is has 1 in 10 jobs…10% with all the support crews across the country. We’ll, Ca has 1 in 10 of the cars. You do the math…if GM doesn’t win over californians with either the “Volt” or the “Fusion” then they are in big trouble. Honda says they are going to release the “insight” for 19,995 and 50 mpg, Toyota says the new Prius is 10-15% better for the same cost…20,000-24,000. GM will be in big trouble if there is no plan to combat this.
(Quote)
December 4th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
#118 DonC
#96 Statik – “I thought that was a huge admission in relation to the Volt program”
I’m not following you here. An admission of what?
======================================
DonC,
I made up a whole ditty about when the Volt got funding, and referenced this statement, dug up links, etc. and then listed the mirade of other things in the way…you know, same old-same old…but I just lost heart.
It is to the point where I feel I’ve said what needed to be said the last year or so when people were putting their faith (and money) in GM and the things they said. Now there are lots of people that can see what is going and no one is being fooled anymore…only those who want to be.
I watched 6.5 hours of hearings, and there was A LOT of stuff I could have ripped into…the old me here would have, but I didn’t say anything alll day…other than mentioning Wagoner’s little snippet about production (which I only touched on casually), because that is the last deception left standing (imo)…and even that I didn’t want to hit too hard, because it is a day of reckoning that will likely never be tested.
Have a good nite my friend. Take it my comment for whatever its worth, I’ll just let it stand…I’ll see you tomorrow.
(Quote)
December 5th, 2008 at 8:03 am
Where are all the armed guards protecting the “technology”??
The russians could be copying it right now….an release a true production car (one that a consumer can buy) before GM!
(Quote)
December 5th, 2008 at 9:48 am
#103 N Riley
Your point
“4- selling gas guzzlers when they should have known better regardless of what the customers were demanding”
Regardless of what the customers were demanding…like your business philosophy..lets Stop building what people demand, andstart building stuff they are not…
wait..what?
Let me get this straight..you want manufacturers to build what people should be buying..and not what they ask for? and quit building what people demand, because ..nice idea… COMRADE..
I mean lets face it..unlike everyone else who KNEW that a major credit crunch, with a sudden massive oil price increse,and failing banks was going to happen simultaneously causing a massive shift in direction to fuel efficient cars…
Honestly..do you think, really believe…that that is how manufacturers should do things…becuase if you do..you give up your right to choose..
That was such a line of idocy the way you put it.
If they had develloped a better line of fuel efficiecnt cars for that segment of the market using the big profits they made on SUV’s and trucks, then it makes sense..but really bad choice of workds…
(Quote)
December 5th, 2008 at 9:54 am
134 / 135
” in a State where it REALLY matters”
yes the one state where you must believe that if it is made in the USA it MUST be crap..wher the greatest concentrtion of smog and pollution exists because of their vehicle concentration, and of course the not my problem attitude because the car makers are at fault./..they have goons here that make us all drive everyday ..but hey…now we should sue them, and…
Ahh go whine in your Toyota….
if GM doesn’t win over californians with either the “Volt” or the “Fusion
Fusion is Ford…I can believe you are from California…
(Quote)
December 5th, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Frist off, I wish those calling it a bailout, simply stop. They are asking for a LOAN, plain and simple a LOAD. A bailout is money or monies given as a gift, does not have to be paid back. This is a LOW interest rate loan. They have to pay it back, it they can’t, they will be sold offsite, or something to recoup the funds.
And 2nd way not, they gave Citicorp not only 1 but 2, w/o asking one question about the loan, just plain here, see you later. I believe Citicorp, has gotten something like 75Billion so far.
(Quote)
December 6th, 2008 at 3:42 am
That thing must be whisper silent. I couldn’t tell it was on until it started moving. No wonder those Teslas are getting wrecked so frequently.
(Quote)
December 6th, 2008 at 4:01 am
If they had some younger blood in their upper management, they would better undestand today’s culture and many potential customers. They should have recorded the ride to capitol hill from inside the car and posted it on Youtube. Put a little silver lining in an otherwise dismally dark cloud. Lots of bang for the buck with this kind of marketing.
(Quote)