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Will the Volt Lead the DC Caravan? And Bob Lutz on How We Can Help GM

November 25th, 2008 | Posted in: Financial, Politics

When the CEOs of GM, Chrysler, and Ford went to Capital Hill to obtain government loans they were publicly derided for having arrived there on three separate corporate jets. One congressman said it was like “going to the soup kitchen wearing a tuxedo”

Since then, GM has sold off two corporate jets and is preparing a new method to get CEO Rick Wagoner back to Washington next week when he will testify again on December 5th, 3 days after a viability plan is submitted.

A group of auto suppliers, dealers and the UAW have devised the idea of a caravan of US-made advanced technology fuel efficient vehicles winding their way from Detroit to DC for the next hearing.

Unfortunately the Detroit 3, although praising the plan, cannot contribute to it and the CEOs won’t accompany them. GM spokesperson Tom Wilkinson said “the whole grassroots caravan to Washington, D.C., effort we think is a great idea, it’s just not something we are in a position to sponsor or manage.”

He also indicated that Mr. Wagoner wont be taking a corporate jet this time, saying “for security reasons, we don’t normally comment on transportation of our senior executives. As the date for the hearings gets close, we may provide more details.”

I have received many emails suggesting that the Volt show up in DC too. Of course, there are no final production-intent Volts in Volt skins yet as they wont appear until next summer. While it might be possible to trail along one of the Volt show cars, I doubt a mule will be allowed to leave the testing grounds, and besides they looks like Cruzes.

Phil’s and my suggestion of massive government purchases of Volts also obviously met with some criticism here and on TheCarConnection.com. Though the esteemed Automotive News ran a positive story about it.

Furthermore, I was also graced with a reply from GM vice-chairman Bob Lutz after I forwarded him our suggestion. He had this to say about it:

“There are certainly elements of this suggestion that are potentially useful, but even a large government fleet, say, 50,000/year, would not solve the larger problem.”

I asked Mr Lutz how else we of Volt Nation might help ensure getting the Volt on the road, and he said:

“(Ask) your members to e-mail their Congresspersons to express support for the “Detroit 3″ loans. That would assure a future for Volt!”

And so I have Mr. Lutz, and for those of you reading this site who want your Volt too, please do the same.

Source (Detroit Free Press)

Posted by: Lyle

125 Responses to “Will the Volt Lead the DC Caravan? And Bob Lutz on How We Can Help GM”

statik Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 9:57 pm

Photoshop ftw.

They are in a ‘lose-lose’ now. Everyone knows they were shamed to sell off the planes because of the bad PR…and everything now looks contrived, regardless of what they do.

They could all arrive in Mitsu i-Mievs, that probably sends the wrong message, too, lol. The fact there is not even a single lonely working ‘one-off’ Volt I think screams a message too…but I let someone else draw that conculsion.

/I guess they could drag a Volt shell behind a hybrid Tahoe

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o.jeff Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 10:02 pm

I think it would be very wise to have both the Volt mockup and several Volt mules in Washington DC. If GM has let a journalist drive the Volt, then they sure should let U.S. senators and congressmen drive these vehicles.

This is all about securing our country by reducing dependence on forieng oil. I think this is the most important foreign policy goal for the next 10 years.

In fact, I’d argue that a loan to GM should not even be counted as a part of the financial crisis. Really, it should be in the budget of the Department of Defense. If we can convert a substantial part of our automotive fleet to range extended EVs, then we can avoid a lot of future military spending!

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Jerry Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 10:27 pm

Have a crazy idea. It’s called honesty. Show them the plans for building the cars of the next year or two(Volt, Cruze, Flextreme, whatever). show them the progress so far. Show them the growing list of people who want this technology parked in thier driveway! And then count how many of them want it made in this country. Plenty of bean counters out there, put em’ to work.

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Casey Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 10:30 pm

No comment

NO PLUG NO SALE, JGTVWOTR, (my house) =D~~~~~(my Volt)

MAYBE

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Xiaowei1 Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 10:31 pm

50,000 sales per year wont solve the problem, but it would go a long way to helping.

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GM is stupid Kevin Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 10:42 pm

Well this just goes to show you that GM, Ford, and Chrysler just don’t get it. They sell auto’s, and when you don’t make a product that buyers want, they will buy something made outside the US. They should just show up in Hummers, that get an EPA 20 MPG’s.

At this point it doesn’t matter what they show up in, what matters is their plan to make auto’s, create jobs, and save each company.

If they want to drive to D.C. then maybe they should drive a fuel efficient car. There are some car makers that make them, Toyota, Honda, but if they are looking for class a BMW would be great.

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Ronald Kelley Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 10:47 pm

Wait!!! I’m to blame too yes me I wanted those big cars and the big horses and a way to leave every body in my tracks and I didn’t care how I got them but I was short sighted and now have gotton blessed with something called hindsight. Which tells me that the best thing we can do is not make another mistake lets learn from our mistakes. Management must come together with Union and start to challengen the furure working together to give the people what they need not what they want It seams a little funny when Congress digs in there and gets tuff! OK the auto CEOs needed that jaring BUT put it in perspective Billions Trillions but not a drop for those that pay your bills were dose that lead to??? think think think then act

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Casey Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 10:55 pm

#7 Ronald Kelley

OK, it’s your fault, your to blame, hang your head in shame

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Gary Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 11:07 pm

I wish GM the best, but it will be an uphill battle to overcome negative media coverage. I overhead 2 co-workers talking about the now infamous private jet flights. One person said that it would cost AT LEAST $100,000 for a flight.

Doing some Googling, the cost of chartering a jet is closer to $5,000 per hour. I’m sure that if you have your own corporate jet, it would be cheaper to run on an hourly basis than that.

It seems that the media is on a witchhunt. Why do so many people complain that everything they buy is made in China? Because all the stuff made at home is supposedly “junk”!!! There are too many dim-witted people that think America’s standard of living can be maintained by sticking their heads in the sand while racking up credit card balances, and in the meantime good paying jobs are moved overseas. And I’m not just talking about cars, here. Americans have to actually learn to try harder to compete on the world stage now… the complacency has gone on too far. Everything good in life doesn’t come for free… you have to work for it.

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George K Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 11:20 pm

“Bob Lutz, …
There are certainly elements of this suggestion that are potentially useful, but even a large government fleet, say, 50,000/year, would not solve the larger problem.”

Then, we’re back simply to, too much $overhead to support lower long term national sales volumes.

We’ve got to get management and labor costs below Honda and Toyota USA. They must show THAT plan to congress on the 2nd. Do that, and we’ll see the opposite of what happened in the last meeting.

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RamZ Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 11:41 pm

Being a pilot and owning my own plane I think it is totally crazy to think that the CEO should spend his extremely valuable time driving to Washington. No it is not cheap to fly a private jet but it is cost effective for highly time constrained people to use a plane.

When you have a dozen people going the same place it can be cost effective even for say engineering staff, versus a dozen people buying a $1200 ticket. Wagoner is the face of GM.

Time waiting in line at the airport or driving across country is time that he is not doing what we need him to do. Work at getting GM back on track and getting our Volt to market.

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George K Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 11:41 pm

And yes, it is a shame they can’t get 2 or 3 of the Cruze Volts in a cavalcade (notice I dodged the word, “Caravan”). Even though they don’t look like a Volt, that would certainly turn a lot of heads in Washington (when it’s known what’s under the hood).

Make sure they are charged up by the end of the meeting, and offer brief rides to the politicians and media.

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Texas Says:
November 25th, 2008 at 11:54 pm

This point in history is the best time for the Big 3 to introduce a bold plan that details the reinvention of transportation. I hope the Big 3 realize this and take advantage of the situation. The same old way is not going to cut it. Just look what the other auto manufactures around the world are up to.

The new plan can be almost insane sounding. The time for the biggest change is when you hit bottom.

To be honest, I think congress has already decided to give the Big 3 a loan. Let’s just look at Citi bank. I’m sure a nicely detailed plan of what they were going to do before the financial meltdown would be good enough. Just make it sound fresh and forward thinking.

The current management at the Big 3 might not be able to reach for the sky of change. They are still confined to the environmental box they live in. It’s almost a shame that the loan they will be given will allow them to keep on the same path they were headed down before.

Perhaps next year when the Big 3 come back for more money (Ford and GM Both went through over $7 billion of cash last quarter alone) the conditions for massive change might not be as strong as they are right now, at this very moment in history. A chance for change not taken. Maybe they will get it right and become world class once again. More likely that without massive restructuring the Big 3 will limp along for many decades and slowly fade away into irrelevance.

I would love to see a partnership with the government and our auto companies, introduced by Obama on inauguration day, to reinvent transportation and move the world away from using fossil fuels to get around. The government can do it’s part by helping with national standards, tax incentives that make burning fossil fuels less desirable than using sustainable fuels, educating the public, directing the military to also move away from non-renewable fuel use, etc.

This partnership should be forged using all of the lessons we learned in the past. We can use the best of our system to make sure there is competition backed by direction. A national plan realized using the power of our capitalistic might.

Like it or not our world is delineated into countries. Each country is competing as well as working together to make the world an interesting and safe place to live. A country with no direction, no matter the amount of resources, will never achieve it’s potential and promise.

Obama is about to give a country that has lost it’s way a direction to move forward. I hope it’s a grand and well thought out plan. Americans love to be challenged and perform best when the chances for success look slim but the rewards are heavenly.

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DonC Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:10 am

#1 Statik – “They are in a ‘lose-lose’ now. Everyone knows they were shamed to sell off the planes because of the bad PR…and everything now looks contrived, regardless of what they do.”

May we never tire of your unending optimism! LOL Of course you’re right but everyone is just looking for a few mea culpas. So contrived or not they’ll be accepted.

As for numbers, let’s see … Citi just got another $20B and they employ how many people? And their workers get paid on average how much per hour? I’m a finance guy in some ways but the double standard between the WS white collars and the blue collar workers is getting annoying.

Realistically Detroit will get it’s money. You’ve probably noticed that Obama is a very smart guy. Additionally, he can add. The pertinent numbers are these: $700B to create 2.1 million jobs; $25B to save 3.5 million jobs. What do you think he’ll do?

#13 Texas

I hope you’re right. But I’ll tell you the hostility towards this is surprising. Normal people just don’t look at it rationally. They go off on corporate jets and SUVs (and they are the ones who bought the SUVs). Go figure.

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Jim I Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:17 am

Here is an idea….

We keep talking about making the Volt a “Manhatton Project”.

So why don’t they go into triple shifts working 24/7 to get this thing done and made available as soon as possible????

If I thought I had a project underway that was going to save my company, I would give it more than 9-5 M-F. Forget November, 2010. Why not shoot for Jan, 2010????

It is time for some common sense!

They need to get to work on the manufacturing plant tomorrow morning. Next, get a battery contract signed by noon tomorrow, so they can start production of that most vital component. Then toss the 10,000 unit first year’s production number out the window! If they want to know how many units they can sell, set a price, publish what the warranty will be and start taking real deposits from people that are believers.

Get to work, finish the development, and build the damn thing! We can’t buy it until you make it available for sale!!!!

No plug, no sale is not a joke to most of us here. If you want me to sign a sales contract, get out a product to the showrooms that I want to buy. And a new model gigantic SUV at 18 MPG isn’t it…..

Take that simple message to Washington, and you will get your cash. Then deliver on the promise, and you will get back to profitability.

Or am I missing something?

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Texas Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:21 am

Ford’s CEO, Alan Mulally, in base salary alone makes over $11,000 and hour. It’s cheaper for Ford to fly him in a private jet. Just calculate the amount of time it takes to fly on a commercial airliner. I’m not even counting how much more productive he can be on the private jet that has a custom office. He can use his cell phone, personal computer, have access to secure company data, etc. Unfortunately, normal people just can’t understand that.

Folks, this is just a PR stunt and is not based on cost. Thus, when you are given lemons make lemonade! Go for the PR gold. It’s already costing you more money why not get the best bang for the buck? Driving all the way to Washington is out of the question. The time lost would cost a fortune.

Perhaps the best idea would be for the CEO’s to take different flights (if the plane goes down it would be a bit disruptive to lose all three). Take the red eye in economy class so they can claim it was on personal time (Rick Wagoner is 6 feet 4 inches tall – they can take pictures his face in pain). Stay at the cheapest motel you can find. Eat at McDonalds, perhaps a happy meal. Bring their musical instruments so they can beg for money and thus cover some expenses and wear backpacking clothes to the congressional circus.

They could also have each of the company’s best EV prototypes (if they have any that are actually running) transported to Washington using horse drawn trailers. The CEO’s could take those prototypes from the airport (would not want to waste taxi fare) to the main event. Those companies that don’t have any running prototypes can ride bikes.

Anybody else have any cost saving tips? [cue circus music]

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carcus Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:29 am

Instead of making myself crazy at the computer screen I should be making one of these in my garage instead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b22yHJMBj4

I bet I’d feel better.

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Texas Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:29 am

#15 Jim, I feel your frustration but they are already cutting a year off normal timeframes and we are talking about a completely new technology and platform. Believe me, they are not just working 9 to 5 on this. You can’t just start on the factory tomorrow without having the designs and parts ready to go. Does that make sense? They are already pushing everyone as hard as they can. The key people are working every day including weekends to get this done in time. If you saw the amount of tasks that need to get done you would gasp and go have a beer to forget what you saw.

It’s a monumental project that has to be done right. If it’s rushed too much it will have quality problems that will ruin GM’s reputation for delivering Car 2.0. They have to move swiftly yet precisely. GM has given them great budgets and control. Just let them get it done. Perhaps a “Good Luck Guys!” once in a while wouldn’t hurt. They are working their butts off.

Go Volt Team!

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Jim I Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:35 am

Texas, I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but I think you missed a very important point in post #16:

Why does the CEO of Ford continue to make $11,000 per hour when the performance of the company has been so horrible?

The President of the United States makes $400,000 per year and assuming a regular 40 hour workweek, that works out to under $200 per hour!!!!

Who do you think has more responsibility???? That is why we do not mind him flying around in Air Force One….

And as far as getting to work on the plant, there surely must be some preliminary work that could be done to prepare for the final assembly line setup. Don’t you think??? And the technology is not completely new. Quite a bit of this work was done on the EV-1. True it is all being updated to use the newest technologies, but there was base level work completed on that project.

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Jeff M Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:50 am

If Lyle or anyone else really believes Lutz that calling your congressmen to push for the big 3 “loans” (ie. no one expects them to be paid back) is going to “That would assure a future for Volt”, I have some swamp land in Florida I’d like to sell you.

Even if GM is given a “loan”, GM’s problems are much bigger and there is no assurance the Volt will be built if the worldwide recession drags on, which would also keep gas prices below $2/gallon…. on top of that, “loans” (plural, they will need more than $25B) is NOT the solution for big 3’s problems… they need chapter 11, possibly one government sponsored (ie. Washington backing up the warranties so folks won’t fear buying from them), in order to renegotiate union contacts, as well as to be able to reduce the dealer network.

We can’t keep printing money folks… “bail out” the big 3, then whose next? Everyone else will see that bad behavior is rewarded. It’s like spoiling a child, always bailing them out, they have no incentive to change their behavior.

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Ed M Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:59 am

statik #1

I totally disagree, selling off the corporate jets shows GM is willing to do whatever it takes to save the company.

Jerry #3
I think they might just do what you suggest

Gary #9
“It seems that the media is on a witchhunt.”
The media is always on a witch hunt. Negative news seems to sell more newspapers and airtime than positive.

George K #10
I believe the plan to make 50,000 eflex vehicles a year is a starting point. I think you’ll quickly see all new vehicles produced by GM as eflex.

DonC #14
that static can be a real bummer. I think he’s negative because he enjoys yanking everybody’s chain or maybe he just works in the media.

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Mike Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 1:07 am

That is just to funny 16. texas. Its refreshing to hear something smart in here. I still can’t believe everyone made such a big deal about the private jets. Especially the lawmakers, maybe they should only be allowed to eat off McDonald’s dollar menu until the national debt is paid off.

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joe obrien Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:19 am

Anyone else thinkg it is a total waste to even bother giving any money to Chrysler?

They have no viability with an all truck base. They should be considered dead, and their share of the 25B given to GM & Ford.

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ANON Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:52 am

#11 Ramz. Thank you. It is good to see that someone can think logically without letting their preconceived ideas and emotions stand in the way. You are also the first person to understand the time value of money in these forums. For those who believe that CEO’s are not worth anything or are worth little compared to what they are paid, I ask them: 1. Would you like to be in their position? 2. Do you think you could do a better job? 3. What do you know about management, manufacturing and logistics? 4. What specifically should these CEO’s improve upon when it comes to management/ logistics? Could you provide an example where their management skills or business decision was not wise? How would you improve upon it/ at what cost?

As most people blind themselves from reality, it is good to see that some are not blinded by there emotions and can begin the process of understanding reality.

Again, thank you for stating the obvious.

ANON

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NeoCon Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:56 am

You don’t erase such a huge public disaster so easily.

The Big 3 should be tripping over themselves to sponsor this caravan and a hundred other PR stunts to offset the sucking-chest-wound-public-relations-disaster that they’ve engineered with the whole Jet Scandal.

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 3:12 am

I just commented on All Cars Electric.com about meetings of merchants and I reproduce my comment here :

Don’t forget Adam Smith (1776, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations) who wrote more than two centuries ago :
From : http : //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wealth_of_Nations#Of_the_Real_and_Nominal_Price_of_Commodities.2C_or_of_their_Price_in_Labour.2C_and_their_Price_in_Money
“Smith had a particular distrust of the tradesman class. He felt that the members of this class, especially acting together within the guilds they want to form, could constitute a power block and manipulate the state into regulating for special interests against the general interest:

“People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices. It is impossible indeed to prevent such meetings, by any law which either could be executed, or would be consistent with liberty and justice. But though the law cannot hinder people of the same trade from sometimes assembling together, it ought to do nothing to facilitate such assemblies; much less to render them necessary.”[Smith (1776) Book I, Chapter 10, para 82]

Very often since then authorities have found such “conspiracies against the public” not through meetings of merchants but just through repeated signals from merchants like : “Hybrids Are Too Expensive”.

Only independent researchers may affirm such things after publication of verifiable data.

Do you think Senators are the best independent researchers ? I hope they will hire good researchers to investigate the plans of the Big 3.

JC NPNS

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omnimoeish Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 3:16 am

According to wikipedia. The US’s military spending amounts to just over $1 trillion a year. Don’t we think we can put a mere $50 billion or so into helping out our auto industry and making a simple clause stating that part of the term of the loan is going to include the plugin fleet vehicles?

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Dave B Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 4:29 am

Jim I @ 15,

I’ve been saying the same thing…fast track the already fast-tracked Volt. But why doesn’t take a page out of the Tesla or Fisker playbook and do it on a budget of a couple hundred million rather than billion…it ain’t that difficult if a couple of start-ups can do it.

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 4:41 am

ANON #24

OK I agree with most of what you write and Ramz too but explain us why CEOs and other high ranking executives of High Performance Businesses as they are called by Accenture from Japan, Brazil, Western Europe, India, … are paid significantly a lot less and seem to perform better.

regards,

JC NPNS

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George B. Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 5:04 am

The only way we can help GM is to buy their product. If Wagoner is worth the millions he is earning he should be able to finagle some money out of the government. If not, he should be gone. The CEO is responsible for the success of the company, so if GM fails, it’s his fault. Period.

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D'Artagnon Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 7:10 am

So in the name of the Volt, let’s all jump on board and support a 1930’s-style centrally-planned command-economy with state control (and partial ownership) of the means of production.

People, please! Read your history!

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TED in Fort Myers Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 7:16 am

I cannot think of a better way for the Big 3 to take a plan to Washington than to take the vehicles to Washington. The plan is there is a plan. Congress will give them the money. They have to show what they have already done and what it will take to finish it. Yes, you need to fast track the fast track. The very survival of the big 3 requires it. Beat the iMEV to market. Beat the Mini EV to market. Win the race and get the product out the door. We don’t need government to buy the vehicles. Make them and we will buy them. Give me a plug you will have a sale. I still think the big 3 can do it better than I can. That is why I have not done a conversion already myself. While you are at it. Start mass production of the EV-1 and sell it for $80,000.00. You will sell all you can make of them too.
Take Care,
TED in Fort Myers

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 7:33 am

# 31 D’Artagnon

Just one question : what did the Bush administration and Congress do with the financial sector ?

Reagrds,

JC NPNS

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TED in Fort Myers Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 7:57 am

#33

The present administration with their pro petroleum agenda killed the electric car and the economy. The housing market is just an indicator of the economy. The economy is run by petroleum still and the Bush administration is enjoying the spoils of the boom in petroleum profits and damn the Americans. Bush is as out of touch as Edsel Ford was when he brought out the ‘59 Edsel.
Take Care,
TED

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Gsned57 Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 7:59 am

#12 George K I’m with you 100% Why hold back now? If you feel that bankruptcy isn’t an option and you only have a month to live why wouldn’t you lay your cards down and either get help or go down in style. Hell bring the mules to drive and the shells for display.

Congress isn’t going to be bailing them out because they have a cool looking volt. It’s what under the hood that matters.

And to GM, Ford, and Chrysler I want to help you guys but for me it’s NPNS. I’m in a position to buy a new car but am sticking with my 86 Vanagon till the wheels fall off or you give me what I want. Worst case if you go under I’ll convert it to electric myself and be done with it.

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statik Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 8:07 am

For the record, I think CEOs should take their own planes. (Although, skipping the private ride to a government bailout hearing would have been a good idea).

I also think a CEO should be making top dollar. If you want to get the right guy, you have to pay him the right price. Now if he gets in there and can’t handle it…or does not have the ability to do the things he was asked to do for his pay, he should get the boot.

I am curious why we keep comparing bailing out GM to bank bailouts like they are the same thing? If major banks fail it is a completely different animal than that of one of the big 2.8. Massive shockwaves right across the board are felt if one of the ‘major banks’ goes under…and it happens instantly. Banks are getting the money because the government has decided they have to survive to have the economy survive, the decision on the necessity of having three struggling domestic automakers is not as easy.

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blkstne Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 8:15 am

“There are certainly elements of this suggestion that are potentially useful, but even a large government fleet, say, 50,000/year, would not solve the larger problem.”

Throwing a big pile of money at GM will not change anything. GM waste too much money on heath benifits, bonuses and high dollar wages, white collar perks.
GM CEO MAKES MORE MONEY THAN THE TOP TEN upper executives at Toyota. The TOP 10 EXECECUTIVES at GM make more money than the top 50 execs at Toyota/HONDA.

GM doesn’t know how to not over spend money with their current management in place.

YOU DON’T GIVE MONEY TO YOUR GAMBLING/CRACKHEAD in- law until he comes out of rehab.

GM need to go chapter 11 to restructure their company first. That will eliminate all the excessive spending they do and than the Government can give money to a RESTRUCTURED GM so they can start actually making a profit selling cars.

GM has to take about 2000 dollar off the profit of ever car sold to cover health benefits. Toyota/Honda only have to use about 200 dollars.

If you guys want to see GM survive and produce the VOLT for the public you should be wanting to see GM change the way it runs it’s company. The recent economy problems just accelerated GM problems a few years early.

Even Obama states:
“Tax payers can’t be expected to pony up more money for an auto industry that is resistant to change.” Doesn’t want to be kicking the can further down the road either.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-242-obama-doesnt-want-to-write-a-blank-check/

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J Man Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 8:23 am

As far as I know the 2 jets GM sold were actually leases that they gave up. If Lutz wants to help, he should take a pay cut as well. Also, I have a ‘63 Corvair that I will sell Wagoner. It gets 26 mpg. Maybe Nader will meet him there if he takes the Corvair.

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Bob McGovern Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 8:32 am

It appears that if the Big 3 each build one car they can succeed.

GM the Volt
Ford the Folt
Chrysler the Colt

Problem solved.

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Tim Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 8:32 am

So, Lyle recommends that the big 3 “TRICK” congress into giving them BILLIONS of our tax dollars and hyper inflating the fiat currency using a circus parade? YES, there is a sucker born every minute but WHY do they ALL have to be in Congress???

Like ALL national financial problems, this all began with the central bank (Fed), Fiat Currency, flawed Keynesian socialist central planning economics, super expansive global empire, redistribution “entitlements” and FEDERAL DEBT and YOU believe MORE of the SAME will save GM?

BUT WHAT ABOUT US? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation

Your LUST for ONE car is blinding you. Don’t worry, if (when) GM dies DOZENS of new and hungry car companies will swoop in to build the E-REVs. THEY will buy up GM’s assets and hire GM’s employees WITHOUT the union vampires.

All “economic shocks” begin with a central bank pumping the FIAT paper currency supply to Centrally Control the economy. First they inflate (add liquidity), then they deflate (tightening lending requirements) causing and then popping economic bubbles.

The central bankers control ALL aspects of the economy! They caused the roaring 20’s by inflating and then the 1929 crash by calling loans. They then deepened the resulting depression by supporting central planning (more debt to them) instead of allowing a NATURAL correction while FDR stole the nation’s gold to pay THEM interest on the “Great socialist Society” loans. http://www.libertyforlife.com/eye-openers/us-the-new-deal.html

It was the central bankers adding liquidly by creating cheap loans of CREDIT (not money) out of thin air which caused the dot.com bubble and when THE MARKET corrected… it collapsed. This is ALSO how the Fed caused the housing bubble (cheap and easy credit out of thin air) and then collapsed it with built-in mortgage balloons and overvalued real estate. All of this was INTENTIONALLY created so that we would eventually swallow their plan for a single global fiat currency that THEY print out of thin air.

EU Leaders Call for Global Currency, October 17, 2008
http://www.infowars.com/?p=5387

THE BORROWER IS A SERVENT (SLAVE) OF THE LENDER!

We were ALL warned!

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. Already they have raised up a moneyed aristocracy that has set the government at defiance. The issuing power (of money) should be taken away from the banks and restored to the people to whom it properly belongs.”
- Thomas Jefferson

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(was Tim) Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 8:36 am

My comments are being marked as spam.

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kdawg Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 8:39 am

Lyle – suggest to Bob Lutz that they need to come up w/a merger plan. Definately Ford & GM, then consider Chysler or let Cerberus take care of them. If selling 50,000 Volts/year wont cut the mustard, then cosolidation is the only answer. They will have to shrink to 1 company, and eliminate all the overlaps.

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Cautious Fan Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 8:59 am

So GM prefers huge piles of cheap money over production contracts? Sounds more like an entitlement than a restructuring program.

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Cautious Fan Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 9:06 am

#38 DaveB

Tesla created a product that costs 100K and has some very serious design flaws. GM has no reason to copy their product development model. I suspect if Tesla wants to grow and produce more mainstream vehicles, they’ll use more traditional product development processes that are more rigorous. Can you imagine what people would say about GM if they had huge transmission problems like Tesla has had.

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Tony Gray Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 9:55 am

I am curious as to what exactly these CEOs will identify to Congress as to their restructuring. I mean, beyond what they have already listed.

They can’t say they (unilaterally) are going to cut the Jobs Bank, reduce hourly costs or pension costs.

They can’t say they are going to eliminate a brand, due to the huge costs (I saw somewhere 1 million per dealer) related to closing dealerships.

They can’t let ALL the cats out of the bag with regards to future products for competitors to see.

This PLAN is going to be a SHAM. I agree with an earlier post that the fix is in, they will get their money and that this is just a cover for Congress to say they did “due diligence” before passing out more tax money.

What the hell does Barney Frank or his minions know about the auto industry anyway? How can they tell if the plan is going to work or not? Short answer is they can’t.

Ch 11 reorganization and coming out with a leaner, more flexible organization is the best way to go. People will still buy GM cars if they have faith in the corporation. A short term infusion of cash without fixing the underlying problems will NOT restore that faith.

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Dave G Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 10:01 am

#28 Dave B Says: “But why doesn’t take a page out of the Tesla or Fisker playbook and do it on a budget of a couple hundred million rather than billion…it ain’t that difficult if a couple of start-ups can do it.”
————————————————————————————–
It’s much easier for a startup to make money selling high-end cars. The Fisker will cost around $80K. The Tesla Roadster costs over $100K. Both are super-fast sports cars, and are worth their money, if you’re into that. Both involve lot’s of hand labor to produce. These are low-volume boutique cars.

Tesla’s second model is supposed to cost around $55K, and their third model is supposed to cost around $30K. As their vehicle prices goes down, the non-recurring engineering and tooling costs go up exponentially. So Tesla’s plans call for development costs like GM’s.

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kdawg Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 10:06 am

This is interesting

———————-
DETROIT (Dow Jones)–Ford Motor Co. (F) Executive Chairman William Ford Jr. said he is reviewing the pay of Chief Executive Alan Mulally.

“We are talking to Alan about it,” Ford said in any interview on National Public Radio Tuesday. “We are sensetive to public opinion.”

Ford’s comments come after legislators questioned CEO pay at Ford, General Motors Corp. (GM) and Chrysler LLC when the top executives of the companies laid out there case in Washington, D.C., last week for $25 billion in federal loans. The auto makers say they need the funds to keep their companies running as automotive sales grind to a halt.

Mulally said he thought he was “OK where I am,” when asked if he would cut his $22 million executive compensation package.

Ford says he hasn’t taken any compensation in the last four years.

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Dave G Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 10:13 am

#44 Cautious Fan Says: “Tesla created a product that costs 100K and has some very serious design flaws. GM has no reason to copy their product development model.”
————————————————————————————–
1) I don’t believe Tesla has any design flaws in the models coming off the line today. Tesla no longer has a transmission. Their version 1.5 drive train does 0-60 in under 4 seconds without a transmission. Problem solved.

2) GM is not a startup, but they could benefit from the positive press of a high-end electric sports car. This is exactly what Chrysler has done with the Dodge EV. Since the high-end cars have much less development costs, it might give GM some much needed green credibility for relatively cheap development dollars.

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N Riley Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 10:32 am

Selling off the corporate jets to try to save money is like a homeowner with a $2,000 monthly mortgage selling his kids 16″ bike to help pay the mortgage. It is not going to have any effect at all. Congress had to do some grandstanding to get some favorable PR before giving the auto companies the loans. That is all it was. Just some cake for the average John and Jane Doe. The deal is pretty well made. As long as the auto companies come back “hat in hand” and look contrite without the corporate jet trip, they get the loan. The congress thinks we are all stupid and need to be feed garbage through stunts like this . My company had a corporate jet for years and it was used to ferry people between plants and to take trips to meetings around the country. It was cheaper to fly four, five or six people on the corporate jet than go through the hassle of multiple tickets and the delays at airports at both ends. Plus, a lot of the places we flew into were small airports much closer to our destinations. There is not a congressman in congress that would not take a private jet to and from his home state if it was offered to him. Some of them do that now. A lot more do that on occasion than want to admit it. The fact that they do may be recorded somewhere in some obscure government report but the findings don’t find their way to the public.

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DB Cooper Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 10:36 am

I thought I’d heard a while back that Ford’s CEO was not taking any pay until the company was running at a profit…

So “okay where I am” really meant he’s okay with zero pay, but not really willing to go any lower than that

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N Riley Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 10:37 am

Ask Pelosi and Reid what it cost the taxpayers to ferry them around the country in the taxpayer paid planes they travel in. These are not corporate size jets. These are airliner size jets that cost a small fortune to fly between California and Washington. Plus, we pay to ferry their families and friends along on the trip. You talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Congress needs to go on a strong diet themselves before starting to require any company to rid themselves of their means of transporting executives around the country and world.

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DonC Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 10:40 am

#36 Statik – “I am curious why we keep comparing bailing out GM to bank bailouts like they are the same thing? ”

First we are not talking about GM. We’re talking about the manufacturing sector. If it was only GM then it’s a completely different issue.

Obviously financials and manufacturing are not the same because the financials caused the meltdown whereas the manufacturing sector is a bystander. From this perspective fairness would suggest bailing out the latter not the former. As to the merits of your position, you’re right on the need to avoid having the financial system melt down but wrong on the need to preserve manufacturing. You have to do both.

As for your idea that “if you want the right guy you have to pay him the right price”, I agree completely but it turns out the “right” price is probably a lower price. There are any number of empirical studies showing that, if anything, higher prices paid to executives tend to be inversely correlated with company performance. In a macro sense this is demonstrated by the fact that, as has been pointed out, top executives at the transplants make less but turn out more. Hard to argue with these facts.

The sad fact is that executive compensation is more about gaming the system with compliant boards and captive compensation consultants than it is with performance. The problem is that the mis-alignment of shareholder interests and executive compensation is a fundamental structural problem as well as a root cause of the mess we find ourselves in.

I will agree that the pay of a top executive is more symbolic than anything since it has little impact on the bottom line. However, riding around in corporate jets and eating at private dining rooms and earning bags of money when the company is in dire straits does send a message — which is that “everyone needs to grab what they can for themselves when they can.” Given this message from the top it’s hard to fault line workers and everyone else for trying to game the system, which results in a dysfunctional organization.

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blkstne Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 10:40 am

Sorry
Tesla can’t be used as a good example for running a electric car company. Tesla is losing tons of money and is also asking for Bailout money from congress. Tesla is trying to stay a float and has laid off a good chunk of it’s workforce.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/tesla-death-watch-38-tesla-applies-for-400m-doe-loan/

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Dave G Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 10:41 am

#37 blkstne Says: “GM CEO MAKES MORE MONEY THAN THE TOP TEN upper executives at Toyota. The TOP 10 EXECUTIVES at GM make more money than the top 50 execs at Toyota/HONDA.”
————————————————————————————–
When a company is doing very well, I have no problem with high executive compensation. It’s the high executive salaries when times are bad that bother me.

I think the U.S. auto industry should completely restructure their total compensation with lower salaries and more profit sharing. The higher up in the company you are, the more profit sharing you would get. Top executives would have relatively low salaries and get the vast majority of their pay through profit sharing.

CEO and other top executive salaries would all be less than $1M, but they could still make many millions a year when the company is profitable. When the company is not profitable, CEOs and other top executives would all make dramatically less.

Some of all of the profit sharing would be averaged over some number of years. This would prevent any “get rich quick” schemes that damage the long-term viability of the company, and also account for periods of negative profitability. In other words, we need people at the top who are in it for the long-term.

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DB Cooper Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 10:45 am

“The congress thinks we are all stupid and need to be feed garbage through stunts like this .”

Sadly, they are correct. The public as a whole is in fact stupid, and does in fact need to be fed garbage. Since this does accurately represent the majority of us, we get what we deserve in terms of leadership. That’s the downside of a republic.

Nancy Pelosi’s “show me the money” quote is a perfect example. Look at how brilliant she came across to her constituents by being smart enough to be able to paraphrase a Tom Cruise movie.

The beatings will continue until morale improves

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nataraj Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 10:59 am

I fully support loans to Big 3. So does the congress.

The question is – what are the big 3 proposing to do going forward. If they need think hard on how someone should go from Detroit to Washington, they don’t have the right people in their corp HQ. Let alone the people who can really restructure their industry.

—
is preparing a new method to get CEO Rick Wagoner back to Washington next week
—

This got to be the one of the lamest things. If a GM PR person says this – I’d bet this will make it to the late night comedy shows.

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Cautious Fan Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 11:03 am

#48 Dave G

I agree that Tesla seems to have solved the problem. My point was that GM does not need to copy Tesla’s product development process. Tesla’s development process created something that would probably not work for GM’s high-volume production cars. I’m not knocking Tesla and what they’ve accomplished.

I’m a fan of Elon Musks SpaceX company as well. They’re on their way to significantly reducing the cost of space access.

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kdawg Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 11:22 am

50 DB Cooper Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 10:36 am
I thought I’d heard a while back that Ford’s CEO was not taking any pay until the company was running at a profit…

So “okay where I am” really meant he’s okay with zero pay, but not really willing to go any lower than that
———————————-

Ford’s CEO Alan Mulally makes 22million/year and he’s OK with that. (who wouldnt be, Bill Gates maybe?) Chairman William Ford Jr. has not taken compensation in 4 years.

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DB Cooper Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 11:24 am

“Ford’s CEO Alan Mulally makes 22million/year and he’s OK with that. (who wouldnt be, Bill Gates maybe?) Chairman William Ford Jr. has not taken compensation in 4 years.
”

Ahh. That makes more sense.

Hey, at least Ford’s auto company is better than his football team

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kdawg Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 11:24 am

FYI – GM trading up 20% and Ford up 15% due to prospects they will get the bailout

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Nelson Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 11:29 am

After reading and watching the Frank Weber piece,
http://gm-volt.com/2008/11/23/video-volt-vehicle-line-executive-frank-weber-on-driving-the-volt-its-like-flying/
where he talks about when GM senior leadership drive the Volt/Cruze mules and how smiles are seen within 30 seconds of driving the vehicle, I thought to myself to bad those GM senior leaders aren’t in Congress. I agree with those who say the Volt should be made available for a test drive to those congress men who are on the fence about voting “for” the loan. But the Volt isn’t the only part of GM’s future arsenal. Aren’t there a few Fuel-Cell Equinox in D.C. already from project driveway? If not bring some down for the congressmen to see and drive if they wish.
http://www.gm.com/experience/fuel_economy/news/2007/adv_engines/hydrogen_station_111307.jsp

Honda already has over 200 leased FCX Clarity Fuel-Cell cars on California’s roads at $600 a month each.

Let’s not forget the two-mode plug-in VUE Hybrid. I’m sure they have a few of those they can drop off too. But by no means turn the December meeting into a show and tell. Congress is used to getting reams of paper to read through. Drop the paperwork on their laps then ask if they want to see these vehicles first hand before running the expense of getting them there. If GM goes through the expense of bringing a car show to D.C., it will just show how poorly GM makes costly decisions.

Remember they’re damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

Maybe they should ask that the money go to battery manufactures so that they can retool for mass production without the overhead?

NPNS!

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Randy C. Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 11:40 am

Send them to washington in a hydrogen powered anything. Maybe then they will learn that the hydrogen fuel cell just isn’t the answer. I have seen some real world data that shows just how expensive hydrogen is going to be. James Woolsey is right.

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Tim Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 11:43 am

OH, they WILL get the bailout. Congress knows who butters their bread.
(hint: it’s not us taxpayers)

The question can the socialist Washington bureaucrats turn a dinosaur into a butterfly when everything else they tried “fix” just turned into pork, more Bureaucracy and public debt?

Some people NEVER learn from their (or anyone else’s) mistakes and THAT’S just plain stupid.

Yep, Americans are stupid (or maybe just ignorant because they’ve been lied to for so long).

Freedom through personal responsibility is DOOMED!

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carcus Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 11:49 am

Off topic but still very related,

Q. Who in congress was one of four (1%) to vote against the rule change which gave rise to Enron, and eventually this financial meltdown?

A. Ron Paul

House Vote On Passage: H.R. 4541 [106th]: Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2000-540

/See also, Credit Default Swaps
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/10/26/60minutes/main4546199.shtml

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George Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 11:49 am

GM, do what you need to do to secure the loans but take advantage of the free advertising. Sell the Volt to Congress, the American people and the World! Selling a healthy, forward thinking, GM will bring in new GM buyers to the Volt and still appeal to the tradition car buyers to allow the transition to happen.
Let the press criticize you for overselling your products instead of what they have been doing.

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Nelson Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 11:52 am

Randy C.

Hydrogen is a by-product of producing chlorine. Hydrogen can be produced with solar power. Producing hydrogen also produces Oxygen when splitting a water molecule.

NPNS!

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kdawg Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

#63 Tim Says:

Freedom through personal responsibility is DOOMED!
___________

You are repsonsible for your own freedom. Move to another country if you are so unhappy (and stop bitching about it here). Its getting old.

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noel park Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

#4 Casey:

Ditto.

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N Riley Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:12 pm

#54 Dave G

I understand your point about profit sharing. Problem is you can do certain things to make profit be really big one year and then fall flat or go into a loss in following years. I don’t disagree about upper management being paid primarily based on company performance (or profit) but I think starting salaries should be well below 1 million and profit sharing bonuses should be based on company performance over a period of years, not just the past year. That way a CEO could not do things to get a really high profit in his last year in office to maximize his income as he leaves the company. I also think that “golden parachutes” should be discontinued and if not discontinued should not be allowed to be taken as salary expense. This would make that money taxable to the company and remove one more incentive to pay out huge sums as an executive is leaving a company. Excessive executive salaries are a “sin” of our current capitalists society and should be treated as such. Companies should work to make sure their executives are not receiving pay that is out of line with the goals of the company and its shareholders.

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carcus Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:22 pm

#42,#60 Kdawg,

“Lyle – suggest to Bob Lutz that they need to come up w/a merger plan. Definately Ford & GM, then consider Chysler . . . . ”
“FYI – GM trading up 20% and Ford up 15% due to prospects they will get the bailout”
____________________________________________________

Kdawg wants one giant national automobile company.
That’s good thinking there, Einstein.

What would you pick for the new company logo? Hammer & sickle or a red star?
Oh wait, let me guess. You’d want something with an American flag or an eagle, …right?

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N Riley Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:28 pm

#63 Tim

Sadly, personal responsibility died a number of years ago. We have learned that if you are willing to take personal responsibility for what you do, then it will cost you money at some point or time at other times. In our new society, no one has to take any responsibility for his or her actions. Government will step in and save you if you are not responsible. It is not your fault if you don’t succeed in school. It is not your fault that you can’t get a decent paying job. It is not your fault you can’t afford the finer things in life. It doesn’t matter that as you grew up you spent too much time watching TV, listening to your rap music, hanging with your Bros, not bothering to keep up your school work, not studying for test. You know the routine. It happens around us all day every day. We see it every time we go out shopping or go the theaters or where ever. In our public schools we spend more time teaching political correctness and being sure we don’t dress up as a pilgrim or native Indian at a Thanksgiving play than we spend really teaching our kids how to study, what to study and how to succeed in school. It is not our responsibility when we don’t learn or don’t care to learn. Just listen to the politicians and vote for the man. He says he is going to give us what we need to live without us having to earn it. Isn’t it great to live in such a country?

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Cautious Fan Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:34 pm

#54 Dave G

Why is their pay our concern? It’s a free market. If you can hit a few more home-runs in baseball than the other guys, you make millions more. Good for them. In acting, superstars make millions and everyone else makes less than 100K. I don’t care. I like watching Will Smith. We don’t mind when the free market determines these people are worth millions, so why do we want to do a witch hunt on executive pay? If you want to overpay your executives, good luck with that. You’re wasting your own money.

By limiting executive compensation, this is a guaranteed way to clean out the talented people who are worth the pay, and keep the poor performers who aren’t. If GM won’t pay well for talented people, there’s other companies that will. And I’m sure, like any company, GM’s has plenty of both.

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kdawg Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:36 pm

#71 N Riley
Isn’t it great to live in such a country?
—————
Could be worse. A lot worse.

(now this is where you reply with were going to h3ll in a handbasket, armageddon type response)

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N Riley Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

Before I forget it with all of our comments good and bad about the proposed loan to the auto makers, I want to wish all of you a very happy Thanksgiving. We really do have a lot to be thankful for although it does appear less than we would hope for. We do have a wonderful country to live in with a wide variety of individuals that will work their butts off every year to insure their families have a prosperous year. Most of us don’t take time to consider how lucky we really are. Those of you who travel outside of the U.S., Canada, Europe and Japan know how lucky we are to live here. One thing I do love about our country is that if you are not satisfied with your position relative to where you would like to be, nothing and no one stands in your way of working to improve your lot in life. We all have just as much opportunity for success as we want to work towards. When the work ends, success ends. It is as simple as that.

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Dave G Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

#69 N Riley Says: “… and profit sharing bonuses should be based on company performance over a period of years, not just the past year. That way a CEO could not do things to get a really high profit in his last year in office …”
————————————————————————————–
Yep. This is exactly what I was trying to say and the end of post #54. Some or all of the profit sharing could be averaged over some number of years to help keep a longer term vision.

Profit sharing could potentially be used for employees at all levels, perhaps even for union employees, (if the union would go for it). At the lowest levels, profit sharing would account for perhaps 10% of total compensation, meaning salaries go down by 10%, and typical profit patterns would make up the other 10%. In tough times, compensation would be 10% less, but in good times it could be 10-30% more.

The advantage of such a structure is that the company doesn’t have to lay off as many people when times are tough. It also means employees at all levels have some incentive for the company to do well. All employees have a stake in the company.

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Cautious Fan Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:41 pm

#69 N Riley

Companies should work to make sure their executives are not receiving pay that is out of line with the goals of the company and its shareholders.
___________________________________

To carry your point farther (I think), companies try to do this already. They’re in the best position to correctly value their employees. They don’t need the gov’t to tell them what they’re employees are or are not worth. If a company overvalues their employees, they’re costs become higher than competitions. If they value them to low, the talent will go to competitors.

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N Riley Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

#73 kdawg

Sorry to disappoint you but I am not one of those that feel it is the end of the best of times. I certainly don’t believe in us going to hell in a hand basket or of an impending Armageddon any time soon. I am at times some what disappointed in our countries’ direction caused by the decisions of its elected officials, but never disappointed in most of its citizens. We, as citizens, do make mistakes and we do continue voting into office the same people that are sometimes part of the problem. But I do believe that you always get what you deserve based on your decisions and the actions you take. Sooner or later your reward will arrive. We do live in perilous times, but so did our forefathers and so will our children.

Have a good Thanksgiving.

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kdawg Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:47 pm

70 carcus Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
#42,#60 Kdawg,

“Lyle – suggest to Bob Lutz that they need to come up w/a merger plan. Definately Ford & GM, then consider Chysler . . . . ”
“FYI – GM trading up 20% and Ford up 15% due to prospects they will get the bailout”
____________________________________________________

Kdawg wants one giant national automobile company.
That’s good thinking there, Einstein.

What would you pick for the new company logo? Hammer & sickle or a red star?
Oh wait, let me guess. You’d want something with an American flag or an eagle, …right?
————————-

“One giant company”. What little there will be left of the big 3 (or just leave Chrysler out), l suggest should consolidate one company, for survival reasons. There are other auto companies in the US. People keep mentioning Telsa today, plus a lot of foreign auto makers build there cars here. Dont worry, competition is not a problem and mergers happen all the time.

“hammer, sickle, red star, american flag, eagle”. Aren’t you creative, but I dont like any of those.

TIP: Drink less coffee.

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Tim Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:50 pm

N Riles (#71)

Yep, and the liberal/socialists (democrat & NeoCon) can’t figure out WHY America is failing to compete with the rest of the world…

The financial bailout and resulting problems are a symptom of a much larger and deeper problem! Printing more public debt will NOT fix this cancer. YOU must remove it or destroy it at its ROOT!

The ONLY way to excise this cancer is to…

OBEY THE ENTIRE CONSTITUTION INCLUDING THE 10TH AMENDMENT!

Sound Money is the Key so if we REALLY want to save the Volt and ALL American manufacturing we MUST End the Fed, Stop Nation building, Bring ALL of our troops home (save over $1Trillion/year), and End the Welfare State because it makes nobody “well” and it is most certainly NOT “fair”.

If the (unconstitutional) public schools (socialism) taught personal responsibility instead of political correctness we wouldn’t be in this mess.

I want the Volt, but not bad enough to FORCE you (or anyone else) to buy me one with you and your children’s debt.

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Dave G Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

#72 Cautious Fan Says: “Why is their (CEOs) pay our concern?
…
By limiting executive compensation, this is a guaranteed way to clean out the talented people who are worth the pay,…”
————————————————————————————–
It’s our concern because these companies are huge and employ millions of people directly and indirectly, so when they falter the government is forced to bail them out in order to keep from losing $100B in lost tax revenue and increased unemployment benefits.

To be clear, I’m not advocating limits on executive compensation, I’m talking about limiting executive salary. CEOs and top executives would still make many millions in profit sharing when times are good.

I’m also advocating using lower salaries and profit sharing at all levels. For example, employees at the lowest levels might make 10% less salary, and 10% in profit sharing at typical profit levels.

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N Riley Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

#75 Dave G

Speaking of profit sharing, you said: “The advantage of such a structure is that the company doesn’t have to lay off as many people when times are tough. It also means employees at all levels have some incentive for the company to do well. All employees have a stake in the company.”

—-

I couldn’t agree more. I believe in profit sharing at a company from the lowest worker through to the highest paid worker. It does give us more of a stake in the success of the company. Lower wage employees should receive adequate pay and that percentage of pay should be greatly reduced for the top management of a company. The upper levels of management should derive most of their salary from profit sharing computed over a period of years. We should always want the company we work for to be successful. But I have heard employees wishing “hell and damnation” on the very company they depend on to provide their jobs and income to support their families. I have never understood that mentality. I just don’t blindly trust in my company and I do speak up in meetings to try to help company policy to be more fair to all workers where I can. Luckily, I am well compensated because of my hard work over 30+ years and the job I do for the company. I want all employees to be successful when the company is successful.

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N Riley Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 1:04 pm

#76 Cautious Fan

I agree most companies do work to keep their executive salaries in line and we do not need congressional oversight in this area. But, we do have a problem in our very large companies where the CEO and the Board of Directors are not in close touch with the average workers and the average citizen. Some of these extreme salaries are the result of “old boy cronyism” where the CEO receives a big pay raise, bonus, stock incentives or such and agrees not to complain when the board members “pluck juicy plums” for themselves. Those are the types of executives and board members that we have to watch out for. They need to be run out of our companies and forced to repay the cost of those big raises, “juicy plums” and such.

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Unni Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 1:13 pm

Will there be some tech aspects of volt/photos/different tests etc they do also or only CEO discussions ?

Nobody wants to know difference between cruze and volt.
Nobody wants to know difference between Volvo concept and GM concepts and how its affects in long run.
Nobody wants to know how and what GM is doing on volt.
Nobody wants to know whatz difference between Hyundai announced battery and GM battery.
Nobody wants to know how GM plan to beat quality and durability with Honda/Toyota

I think people wont buy cars from GM , if they don’t concentrate on above then they can specialize in begging again after the current money gets over.

I am agree with Jerry #3. Let GM do honesty than govt holding all the crappy cars.

Man its our tax money and we don’t want our tax money to be spend for crappy cars for Govt.

NB: It looks to me cruze is not a volt without battery because i see old style speedometer etc in recent GM photos

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Dave G Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

#79 Tim,

Yes, the government should just get out of the way…

Wait a minute, isn’t that how we got into this mess in the first place? The government got out of the way of the banking industry, and the banks went wild making bad loans, which made many people rich on commissions. Now the American taxpayer is left holding the bag.

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Tim Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

Dave G (#84)

Let’s revisit the REAL facts and NOT what you’re being Fed (pun intended) by the network news.

It was Keynesian economics, Socialist central planning through the CRA (community reinvestmet ACT) of CONGRESS and the MANY bureaucratic “investments” into THEIR preferred areas while taxing and regulating others out of existence and a central bank printing unlimited amounts of Fiat currency that caused the malfeasance (gov’t and private) which created the bubble in the first place.

How, well the CRA (Federal central planning law) forced Fanny and Freddy (quasi-gov’t entities) to buy substandard loans given so those with bad credit could own their own home.
In order to comply with the CRA, the mortgage industry created weird mortgage products like “2/28” “3/27” balloons, 80/20 no money down etc and lowered their credit granting requirements. The private central bank (Fed) helped this process by adding “liquidity” (printing fiat money & issuing fiat credit to regional banks) which increased inflation.

This process caused the market to heat up and the housing values to artificially inflate. This creature came home to roost when people tried to refinance their balloons without the income to qualify for the new and now larger mortgage so they defaulted. As the default rates increased, so did the qualification on new and refinanced mortgages. People could no longer qualify to buy new homes or refinance which resulted in even MORE defaults. So the banks again tightened lending qualifications.

There is PLENTY of money to lend, but the banks are afraid to loan it to anyone without PERFECT credit and 20% down but all the defaults and over-leveraged (over priced) real-estate are making qualified borrowers/properties hard to find. THAT’S why banks & mortgage companies are holding onto or buying other banks or mortgage companies with the bail-out money instead of using it to help people refinance.

Use your brain, comrade! NO bank wanted to make these bad loans and lose money so the Keynesian central planning socialists (Democrats and NeoCons) in gov’t forced them to! Wall Street greed was a SIMPTOM of obeying a federal law, and NOT the cause! The CAUSE was socialist Central Planning and the false belief in Keynesian economics. The Austrian School predicted this collapse decades ago yet the Keynesians sad “all is well” just last year! In fact, the foolish Keynesians still believe that MORE equals “Change”.

There was absolutely NOTHING “free” or laissez-faire about the market since 1913 when banking was unconstitutionally given to the privately run Fed. The FREE market would have required a larger down payment, more interest, and a stronger credit rating that the CRA allowed them to BY LAW.

Gov’t and the Fed’s FIAT money CREATED this problem, not the “free” economy.

Lesson over.

(people who understand these FACTS, and simple economics please forgive another LONG Tim post.)

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Tall Pete Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

#20 Jeff M :
We can’t keep printing money folks… “bail out” the big 3, then whose next? Everyone else will see that bad behavior is rewarded.
——————————————————————————–

It’s quite a bit too late for that kind of thinking. Bad behavior was rewarded in 2004 when the people decided to give the Bush administration a second term.

At this point in time, it’s the domino effect : one bailout lead to the other and so on.

It will take a bold plan from the Obama team to turn things around. I sure wish he delivers. The expectations are way too high.

Fasttracking the Volt ? They already go as fast as they can. These things take time and they must get it right from the get go. Toyota already said it could not be done in the time frame GM gave itself so don’t rush it more, take whatever time is needed. Don’t kill what credibility is left.

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Edwin Mang Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

I think you will truly like the final plan when you see that it does not just bail out the big 3. It also helps local governments and helps make the big 3 and USA equal to the other countries at any production level .
Plus offsets the cost of labor in the USA .

I feel God has Blessed this Plan .

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bruce g Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

I think the CEO’s should turn up in Washington in a private train.
Then drive from the station in an electric cruze.
(I presume they havent torn up the tracks yet)

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JEC Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:29 pm

#16 Texas

Ford’s CEO, Alan Mulally, in base salary alone makes over $11,000 and hour. It’s cheaper for Ford to fly him in a private jet. ”
————————————————————————
If you cannot see the irony in your statement, I feel anything else I would say would be pointless….

NBA!

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Guy Incognito Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

From the article:
“Since then, GM has sold off two corporate jets and is preparing a new method to get CEO Rick Wagoner back to Washington next week when he will testify again on December 5th, 3 days after a viability plan is submitted.”

Preparing a new method, what kind of nonsense is this?
How about this new method: fly coach.

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jkh2000 Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:33 pm

They were too stupid to figure out that going to the hearings in big fancy schmancy getups would not be noticed. Let them fail and reorganize like all the rest of us would have to do for damned poor business decisions. Maybe they should ride up in the new Hummer pickup and at least try and say they downsized…..lol. Screw these managers for poor decisions and let them fail!!!!

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N Riley Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

#87 Edwin Mang

“I feel God has Blessed this Plan .”

____________

You were referring to Obama, weren’t you? I wonder if we will feel the same way about him in four years. Going to be interesting, don’t you think? Already seeing news reports that are saying that Obama’s policies he is putting forth is just a continuation of Bush’s policies. Now, how much change did we get? I do wish him a successful presidency, but I wish the American people much more success, no matter who is in office. He has the same bad problem as the rest of us – a congress controlled by wild-eyed people with hair-brained ideas.

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Edwin Mang Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

For the ones that like bigger faster and more HP .
I have one thing for you .

$20.00 of your speeding ticket goes to the defence of the destitute so speed on . At $120.00 per ticket you pay for the first 5MPH .
In Oklahoma go for it buddy .
Plus that is not going to go away just cost more .
And I want to see your jaw drop when one of my friends passes you going 300 MPH in a little EV .

God Bless

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Edwin Mang Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:42 pm

No I mean GOD . Take it from Tiger . I know the diffrence .

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N Riley Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:45 pm

GM, Ford and Chrysler probably don’t really know what kind of “plan” Pelosi and Reid is asking for. How do you put forth a plan of such magnitude to save a company like GM, for instance, in less than two weeks? Give me a break! They can’t do it. No matter what they come up with, someone is going to pick it to pieces and explain to all of us why this portion or that portion will not work. The press is going to have a field day and Pelosi and Reid will just have to suck it up and proceed to save the auto companies when all they are truly interested in saving is the UAW. Hundreds of millions and hundreds of millions of dollars for re-election campaigns are at stake and they will not let the dems lose that even if they make all of us pay in much higher taxes. God bless our political system.

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DonC Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

#82 N Riley – “Some of these extreme salaries are the result of “old boy cronyism” where the CEO receives a big pay raise, bonus, stock incentives or such and agrees not to complain when the board members “pluck juicy plums” for themselves.”

Most people have no idea how bad it is, but I learned years ago as a new associate at a WS firm (it was actually located in mid-town but no difference). I was given the task of coming up with an executive salary for a CEO for the BOD. I did some research, developed what I thought was a good regression analysis of what it should be, and presented it. The partner was not happy at all with what I gave him, and I figured out quickly that what he was looking for was justification for a very large number which could hardly be justified. Why? Because the law firm was hired by the CEO.

This game is played today at a much higher level by compensation consultants who later get very lucrative contracts from the CEO whose salary they establish. Unsurprisingly there is great competition to come up with the highest compensation: the higher the benefit package the more likely you’ll be hired. The result is our current system where executive compensation is not aligned with shareholder interest, which is a fundamental flaw which has been painfully evident lately.

Anyone who believes that CEOs are paid at “market rates” probably has a few deeds to bridges …

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Cautious Fan Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:50 pm

Here’s a good idea from Honda on a way to help drivers save energy. Seems very practical and easy to me.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/26/hondas-color-changing-speedometer-to-drive-out-bad-driving-habi/

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DonC Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 2:53 pm

#95 N Riley

I hope you’re right. I agree that what they want is more a fig leaf than an actual business plan. The fig leaf will have to include some trimming of executive compensation, which isn’t a bad thing actually. So no harm.

But hey, you can do the math: $700B to create 2.1 million jobs or $25B to save 3.5 million jobs.

At the end of the day I fail to see what’s wrong with doing the right thing. We don’t need them to do the right them for the right reason. We just need them to do the right thing.

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N Riley Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 3:03 pm

I truly, truly wish the best for GM, Ford and Chrysler. At the same time we all must recognize they did most of this to themselves. They have seen the types of cars and trucks produced by Honda and Toyota. They could have done all they could to improve quality, efficiency and price. Maybe they did and were hamstrung by the unions and were unable to get the kind of cooperation from the unions to improve quality and price. Union resistance to lowering their salaries and benefits had some effect on the problem, but GM management has plenty to be ashamed of. But, look, Toyota fell into some of the same trap GM, Ford and Chrysler did else they would not be producing all of these large pickup trucks and SUVs we see just sitting on Toyota dealer’s lots. Honda has a little of that problem with their pickup truck, but to a much smaller degree than Toyota. Toyota has some of the worst fuel mileage trucks and SUVs around. If it wasn’t for all the small cars they make and sell, they would look really bad when compared against GM or Ford. GM has the most over 30 mpg cars sold in this country. You don’t see any good press for that. American auto companies get bad publicity just being open for business. If it is American made, it has to be bad. We need to stop these kinds of self-destructive notions. We, the American people, demanded these large trucks and SUVs. All GM, Ford, Chrysler, Toyota and, to some extent, Honda did was supply what the buying public was asking for. That’s the “American Way”. That’s Capitalism with a capital “C”.

GM was on the road to restructuring and reducing cost when it got hit with this “financial” crisis we seem to be experiencing. It is not wholly their fault to be in the precise position they are in, but they have to have the skill and financing to work their way out of it. Without financing it is all over for them. Chrysler is a goner, also. Ford is struggling and could not survive if GM fails. Too many suppliers would close. Too much confidence would be lost in Ford and the customer base would dry up. No, they all need assistance and they need it soon and they need more than the 50 billion proposed. Personally, I think GM and Ford both need about 50 billion a piece with Chrysler needing around 25 billion.

It is a wonderful country we live in. Happy Thanksgiving.

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Hoang Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

To #11: “I think it is totally crazy to think that the CEO should spend his extremely valuable time driving to Washington. No it is not cheap to fly a private jet but it is cost effective for highly time constrained people to use a plane”.

With this kind of thinking, it will cost more and more for taxpayers for nothing and all the CEOs are still living in luxury while their companies are struggle to survive and this nation will never get rid of oil partially or completely and we consume most of the world energy while our population is fraction of the the world’s

In Europe, some Prime Minister go to work by bycicles. That is the mentality needed here in America especially during this economy crisis.

My 2 cents

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Cautious Fan Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

#80 Dave G

Why stop with gov’t mandating limits to executive salaries. Why not go after baseball players and actors as well? I think they’re overpaid. And the guy who invented Post-it-notes. I don’t think he deserves however much he got.

I agree with you that business is necessary for a healthy economy, but I struggle with your conclusion. It’s precisely because of it’s importance that I believe gov’t should stay out. What do they know about compensation? Jack Welch was worth every penny of his multi-million dollar compensation. Eisner of Disney was worth every penny and then some. Wagoner, maybe not, though one could argue it’d be worse if he weren’t there.

#83 N Riley

So you think some CEO’s are out of touch with reality, and the fix is for a politician, who is even more out of touch, to determine what the CEO should make? Or are you saying that investors should run the CEO’s out?

And Happy Thanksgiving to both of you and I wish the best for you and yours.

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N Riley Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

#101 Cautious Fan

Yes, if the CEO and/or the board pulls stuff like that, they should be voted out by the investors. I certainly think the politicians are even more out of touch than even the CEOs. They are too insulated from “every day” Americans and events. They each move in circles that are by their very nature exclusive of “every day” Americans. Money is power and money, CEOs and politicians are mixed together more than most of us realize. It is just the nature of things. I don’t know how to change it except we vote out of office bad CEOs and politicians. But, who decides who is bad and who is not? That is the big question.

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D Lo Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 3:41 pm

I’m a little disappointed that so few seem to understand the ripple with statements like , “Let them fail”. Creditors, not GM, will be forced to forgo funds. Who might this impact other than GM?. The phone company, the power company, the soda machine supplier, the paper supplier, the training consultants, parts suppliers–who incidentally supply the same parts to your beloved Toyota–caterers, information Technology suppliers, etc.

If GM files chapter 11 they don’t lose; its everyone else who does.

BTW, I don’t recall anyone in the Bush admin asking a single question of Citi. GM has eliminated 401k match, tuition reimbursement, adoption assistance, amongst many other perks. What has Citi sacrificed? If your flying this weekend, don’t expect to see Vikram in coach (or even a commercial flight),

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carcus Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 3:44 pm

‘Ron Paul Hits Out At “Arrogant” Greenspan’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l769huNEkA

And another $800B announced by Paulson today. The madness continues.

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D'Artagnon Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

#33
Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 7:33 am
# 31 D’Artagnon

Just one question : what did the Bush administration and Congress do with the financial sector ?

Reagrds,

JC NPNS
______________________________________________________

As I have indicated, they turned it into a 1930’s-style centrally-planned command-economy with state control and partial ownership of the means of production.

Is that what you want?

Best regards,

D’Artagnon

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Tim Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 3:56 pm

Maybe one of the companies that will fill the void when GM is gone will build something like this:

Monotracer Profile
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbcgtTMcmPY&feature=related

Very cool!

Then again, when taxpayer’s money chooses technology, the competition dies and so does innovation. Oh well, I like grey or blue EVERYTHING…

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Rashiid Amul Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 4:29 pm

From the article:
“Will the Volt Lead the DC Caravan?”

—————-
The symbolism would have been great if they did this the first time.
I don’t think it will be so great now, after they really screwed up the before.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 4:33 pm

Carcus #17.

Thanks for the link. I wouldn’t mind having one of those.
I couldn’t find the cost. Any idea?

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carcus Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 4:59 pm

108 Rashiid,

At this point it’s a “plans only” project for $170.

From the XR-3 website:

” At the bottom end of the scale, a diesel-only vehicle capable of achieving 125-mpg can be built for less than $10,000. And the modularity of the design allows you to begin with a diesel-only vehicle then add the electric power train components later on. Nothing in the power train has to be changed. It’s simply a matter of leaving off the unwanted components. You can, however, enlarge the 3-gallon fuel tank to 9 gallons and end up with a range of over 1,000 miles on a single fill-up. ”

“At the upper limit, a duplicate of our Li-Ion-powered prototype will top $25,000.”

http://www.rqriley.com/xr3.htm

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User Name Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 5:10 pm

The picture that accompanies this article is somewhat disturbing.
We see the Capitol Building walled-off, making it inaccessible to the public.
This is very odd, because the Government is the public.

Kind of gives the impression of an us versus them kind of situation.
Although it may not be totally bad, they were kind enough to give us public toilet outside the walls (above the hood of the 4th Volt on the right in the photo).

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Nelson Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 5:25 pm

A CEO’s Compensation should be voted on by share holders every year. Just like they vote for assignment of auditing company.

NPNS!

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Rashiid Amul Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 5:40 pm

Carcus #109

Thanks for that. I looked over their site and couldn’t find that info.
I saw plans, but thought it was a kit.
Thanks for letting me know.

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Mark Z Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 5:52 pm

Maybe the CEO’s don’t have to go to Washington DC in person. Use high definition video conferencing and show the VOLT on the screen as well. I know this would end the back room dealing, but if you only have to testify on the floor, use HDTV and get a big score with the green folks.

Email, FAX and video conferencing. Sure would slow the need for vehicles!

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blkstne Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 6:02 pm

@D lo#103

GM filing chapter 11 doesn’t make GM go away. That would be a chapter 7. GM’s upper chain of command doesn’t want to go chapter 11 because that would eliminate all of their million dollar jobs. Under chapter 11 GM would be able to get rid of certain car Brands,dealerships, force renogotiation of contract with Union, without being sued. Once a chapter 11 is done the government could than give GM money to rebuild and be profitable. They could than sell cars a whole lot cheaper including the VOLT.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/8057073

Money thrown at GM now only gives the upper management and the union another year to continue to drain GM of Billions before floating away on their golden parachutes.

Before i forget
Everyone have a Nice Thanksgiving

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If U Fly the American Flag Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 6:43 pm

Lead the Caravan with a Tahoe Hybrid towing 2 Prius’s.
Follow with a Malibu Hybrid
Draft with a Cobalt XFE

http://gmfactsandfiction.com/

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Tim Tom Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 7:45 pm

Folks, can someone think about this:

1. When is the Volt supposed to offer profits to GM?
If the answer is that GM needs profit immediately, then the Volt is not the medium which can save GM. So try to find something else to run as a caravan in DC. Please do not put piece of garbage such as Mustangs, Camaros, Tahoes there.

2. At $35-40K a piece, when is the Volt going to result in significant profit to GM? 2013? Sounds that a little late? How about if Honda and Toyota believe plug-in is a viable option and offer darn good competition at that time? Likely, right? Fine, GM would need to share market share with strong competitors then.

Please go on with this website and you are doing a good job showing the Volt prototype. Your idea that Volt is going to save GM, etc is just an illusion. Wake up.

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D'Artagnon Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 7:56 pm

#107 Rashiid:

Concur. If Wagoner and Company had driven to Washington in a Volt the first time, it would have made a powerful impact; to do so now only makes them look like sand-baggers.

Ironically, if CEO’s had the foresight to see or think beyond the tip of their noses, GM/Ford/Chrysler wouldn’t be in this pickle to begin with.

Best regards,

D’Artagnon

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noel park Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 8:10 pm

#117 D’Artagnon:

Alas, God’s truth.

Happy Thanksgiving bloggers. Whether I always agree with you or not, I honor anyone who has enough interest in the welfare of our auto industry and our country to participate here. As I have said so many times, you are the best!

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Rashiid Amul Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 8:35 pm

Noel Park #118

Ditto to you and your family.
It seems we have been here a long time, but it will only be two years in January 2009. Be well, my friend.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 8:41 pm

N. Riley 92 says,
He has the same bad problem as the rest of us – a congress controlled by wild-eyed people with hair-brained ideas.

———
Yup. I’ve been saying that all along. It didn’t matter who won the presidency.
That person will still have to deal with a useless, inept, corrupt congress.
I wish Obama well and truly hope he is a successful President. But I think it will be difficult for him.

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NZDavid Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 9:34 pm

Chrysler burned through $3 billion in the third quarter, leaving it with just $6.1 billion in cash as sales worsened.
Source: http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4AP1UE20081126

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NZDavid Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 9:36 pm

Oh and happy thanksgiving to our American friends.

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Texas Says:
November 26th, 2008 at 11:06 pm

#89 JEC, The only thing ironic about what I wrote is that you think it’s ironic.

I know you are going to say that they should not pay him as much. I think we already went over that. If Ford did not give him that compensation package Alan would just work for someone that would. He is in demand. Can you understand that? This is America, people can do that. Just because you work for minimum wage…

Second, just because they had to pay that amount to get him does not mean that have to burn money every time his name is called. Just because you bought a BMW does that mean you have to run out and buy a new suit every time you go out on a drive? Your logic is just wrong.

Put another way, let’s say you spend $10 million dollars for a piece of production equipment. This makes your product and thus generates revenues. You have the choice to use two consumables on that machine. Both consumables work and get the job done. One costs far more than the other. Do you choose the more expensive consumable just because you paid so much for the piece of equipment? Your logic says yes, you would. It’s the exact same thing! I hope you now see the error in your ways.

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Shawn Marshall Says:
November 27th, 2008 at 9:14 am

Lyle,
You are a nice man. Happy Thanksgiving. Since Mr. Lutz was benign enough to respond to you that selling 50,000 Volts won’t do any good, maybe you could respond to him with how many plenty-five billions will it take to help the three amigos?

Fundamental problems need fundamental solutions. There only seems to be one way to resolve the non-competitive situation that plagues the American manufacturers. Start anew.

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Lisa Watkins Says:
November 29th, 2008 at 1:30 pm

A Volt for $40,000.00??? Take me off the waiting list that is not affordable.I’ll wait for the compressed air car from Tata/MDI.

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Will the Volt Lead the DC Caravan? And Bob Lutz on How We Can Help GM

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