Fisker Automotive, based in LA, has been displaying their extended range electric vehicle called the Karma for sometime. Recently they announced plans for production.
In a dribble of good news coming out for GM today, Fisker announced it will be buying the engines for its EREV Karma from none other than General Motors. Fisker plans to buy a 2.0-liter, direct-injection, turbocharged 4 cylinder that generates 260 hp.
The Karma operates similarly to the Volt in that the engine only serves to generate electricity once the rechargeable on-board pack has become depleted, which will be at 50 miles.
The Karma is a luxury car that is expected to reach North America next year and sell for $80,000.
GMs VP of powertrain Tom Stephens said: “GM is proud that Fisker Automotive has selected one of the world’s best powertrains for installation into the new Karma. The advanced design of this engine offers a superior performance-to-weight ratio that makes it the right choice for the Fisker Hybrid Electric Vehicle. As a leader in the automotive industry in the development of fuel efficient and energy diverse powertrains, GM sees significant opportunity in working with Fisker Automotive, a visionary company developing products that embody both exciting vehicle design as well as technology friendly to our environment.”
Fisker’s CEO Henrik Fisker said “Given General Motors global leadership in the parts and accessories space, the fact that it is already engineering parts for extended range electric vehicles, and its commitment to helping the environment, it was clear that this was the right partner for us.”
Source (MarketWatch)
This entry was posted on Friday, November 21st, 2008 at 2:50 pm and is filed under E-REV. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Nov 21st, 2008 (2:52 pm)WHOA! NICE CAR! This is great news for us all!
One ? though… how does this car achieve a FIFTY mile range before going to ICE!? Perhaps a larger battery… I’m reading the brochure now. http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/vehicles/downloads
Nov 21st, 2008 (2:58 pm)General Motors to Invest $1 Billion in Brazil Operations — Money to Come from U.S. Rescue Program
http://www.infowars.com/?p=6137
Nov 21st, 2008 (3:14 pm)Yes, good news for all! Unless I win the lottery I don’t plan to buy one, but this is great to have more BEV’s on the road, even more series hybrids like this one.
By the way, in related news… it’s recently come out that the Tesla Roadster’s battery pack system consumes the equivalent of two 26 cubic foot refrigerators to keep the batteries cool. Hopefully the Karma won’t suffer the same problem as I’m not sure what they are using for the battery pack. The Roadster as we know was built with a battery pack from almost 7,000 off the shelf cells since Tesla didn’t have the capital to have large format custom cells made (like GM is having for the Volt). More info on this at http://teslafounders.wordpress.com/2008/10/12/wasting-energy-like-two-really-nice-refrigerators/
Nov 21st, 2008 (3:20 pm)November 21st, 2008
Bob LutzVolt
Volt: The Next Phase
By Bob Lutz
GM Vice Chairman
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2008/11/volt_the_next_phase.html
“The relative quiet and absence of vibration stand out, among other things. The chassis integrity felt outstanding to me… the steering response was good, the brakes were good, the turn-in was good and so on. I think it needs very little in terms of additional tuning. So I have very high hopes for when we get some test vehicles running with the actual Volt production body aboard.
As for the powertrain and propulsion system, I couldn’t be more pleased. It was 30 degrees and windy and flurrying. We started with about a 60-percent charge on the battery pack, to see how it would perform and when the engine would kick on.”
Nov 21st, 2008 (3:28 pm)[...] coupe. The car is an electric car with an ICE range extender much like the Volt. Check it out:GM to Supply Engines For the Fisker Karma EREV | GM-VOLT : Chevy Volt Electric Car Site __________________ 2008 Black/Black GXP, purchased 7/23 right off the train. Mod#1 blacked-out [...]
Nov 21st, 2008 (3:34 pm)#2 Tim:
If true, this is even stupider than “jetgate”.
Nov 21st, 2008 (3:37 pm)Is it a good idea to sell product to your competitor?
Nov 21st, 2008 (3:48 pm)Sure wish I had $80K laying around …. oh wait, I did 3 months ago.
Nov 21st, 2008 (3:51 pm)I’ve always really liked the look of this car…but discounted it as not a reality for the NA market anytime soon.
If $80,000 is ACTUALLY the MSRP, then it would be $72,500 after the rebate…and if it is ACTUALLY on the market in 2009, it will do really well.
For a car like that…I would/sill seriously consider it. It is about 25K north of what I had pegged to spend, but it is ‘wicked awesome’…especially compared to some other unnamed ‘E-Revs’ planned for the market. I can pay extra for the ‘wicked awesome’ feature.
It does fit almost my entire want list. Electric drive, 4 doors…now if they can figure out how to get it serviced within ‘the range’ of my house, they might get a sale out of me.
Nov 21st, 2008 (3:55 pm)10-88 on the Fisker. Saleen, Delorean, Bricklin, Kaiser, Tucker, and so many more. I just hope the General doesn’t get stuck for the engine bill. COD boys, IMHO.
Nov 21st, 2008 (3:56 pm)#2 Tim –
Why does that not surprise me ? Wonder how their new Shanghai GMW engineering center is coming along ?
This has a lot to do with my “no bailouts” position, despite the fact I stand to lose my own job shortly if GM goes down.
I can always go find another job. But paying the bill for these bailouts is going to be a drag on the taxpayer for-freaking-ever.
Nov 21st, 2008 (4:09 pm)#7 Guy Incognito Says:
Is it a good idea to sell product to your competitor?
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They probably have NDA and non-compete agreements the size of dictionarys when coming to an arrangement like this.
Also, I read the link posted at #4, it sounds like things are continuing to progress.
Stew.
Nov 21st, 2008 (4:22 pm)One suggestion for GM.
Cash-In-Advance for those engines.
NPNS!
Nov 21st, 2008 (4:28 pm)Buying parts from GM is the best thing Fisker can do. Why spend all that money in R/D when it has already been invented. They prefer to focus on building a beautiful car. In fact, all these automakers have too many overlapping products. What is wrong with just having one or two engine builders? We could have four different sizes of 4-cyl, 6 cyl, and 8 cyl engines…and build cars around those engines. Right now we have Chrysler, Ford, and GM building engines.
What a waste of resources.
Nov 21st, 2008 (4:33 pm)$80K is more than I want to spend, but it really is a beautiful car…..
And buying a good engine from an experienced manufacturer is also a good idea.
Maybe they should look into partnering for the battery pack as well!!
Nov 21st, 2008 (4:34 pm)No reason the Volt could not have been a sleek design like this except I suspect the “bean counters” caused the design to be curtailed to reduce cost. Way to go, GM. At least I am glad you are supplying the ICE for the Fisker. Looks like GM will not be the first out with an E-REV after all. Again, way to go, GM.
Nov 21st, 2008 (4:43 pm)#9 statik
With a GM engine, parts and servicability should be less of a problem. Actually I put my deposit for a Fisker down early this year. Hope to see you driving one too!
Nov 21st, 2008 (4:55 pm)#17 Michael
statik, With a GM engine, parts and servicability should be less of a problem. Actually I put my deposit for a Fisker down early this year. Hope to see you driving one too!
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Very nice. Could you tell me the ‘skinny’ on it. Like where they said you would service it? I can’t imagine they said your GM dealer can do it because this is fresh news. Having your GM guy be able to handle it, almost seems…unbelievable to me.
How about timelines? How long ago did you put the deposit down? Did they give you a ETA?…and did they give you a hard contract or a soft one?
I know, a lot of questions…but I don’t really want to waste everyones time messing around, if I can find out the important pieces of information from you…and your opinion of the process.
One more. After you put your money down, do you get a test drive at some point in the process before delivery?
Nov 21st, 2008 (5:10 pm)If (I mean when) the big 3 go down, dozens of smaller car companies will swoop in to take their place. The new companies will start with a clean slate. That means ZERO legacy costs! The fierce compeition will create LOTS of innovation and lower the final sales price for us all. They will actually listen to their customers for a change!!
Only a complete fool or a corrput moron would throw money at GM when all they have to do is wait and make loans to the more aggressive new companies that will rush in to fill the void and build the E-REVs.
Oh, right. It’s Congress we’re talking about here….
Nov 21st, 2008 (5:24 pm)#18 statik
At the point I put down my deposit, service issues had yet to be worked out. My deposit was put down in late February ($1,000) and at that time, they said delivery would be in the 2nd half of 2010, in the order in which deposits were received, Supposedly, the first 100 signature editions ($100,000 and a $5,000 deposit) are already spoken for. They are supposed to be out in late 2009. I guess all the VIP’s are getting those. (Supposedly, AlGore is on the list for one of those) The contract is a soft contract, and they promise that it will be returned if you do not take delivery. They have not scheduled any test drives yet, but say they will keep us informed as to shows at which they will be in attendance. I have called the corporate office on a couple of occasions, and always receive a cordial and informative response.
I realize that there may be a possibility that the vehicle may never be produced, but they seem actively persuing all of the componants that would make it a reality. I follow news on both the Fisker and Volt almost daily.
As for my $1000, I hope and expect to actually get a Fisker, but even if it never happens, I believe my grand was better spent with a chance at a start-up company and promoting electric vehicles than being taken by Uncle Sam for various bailouts!
Nov 21st, 2008 (5:30 pm)If the engine acts as a generator like in the volt, why do they need a larger 2.0 turbo charger 4 cyl producing 260 hp. Shouldn’t the same 1.0 naturally aspirated 4 cyl motor be able to handle it????
Nov 21st, 2008 (5:38 pm)I dont like. I’m on a Joe the plumber budget.
Nov 21st, 2008 (6:35 pm)#21 (J Man)… remember that this is a real sports car…. to be able to get that 0-60mph in X seconds after the battery is discharged you need to generate enough power to send to the electric motor(s). Needless to say that’s much more power than the Volt needs to go 0-60 in 9 seconds.
Nov 21st, 2008 (6:50 pm)I’m with you J Man, what do they need such a large turbocharged generator for? It sure can’t help their milage when operating off generator.
It should be a condition of any “bridge loan” that it is spent in the US. I don’t think much of financing their foreign operations.
Nov 21st, 2008 (7:40 pm)From the article: “Fisker plans to buy a 2.0-liter, direct-injection, turbocharged 4 cylinder that generates 260 hp.”
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That seems ridiculous. For a series hybrid, the gas engine only supplies average horsepower, which is usually half of peak horsepower. That would correlate to 520 peak horsepower for the Fisker. Ridiculous.
One can only hope Fisker will come to their senses and detune the 2.0-liter for Atkinson cycle, or perhaps a Miller cycle if they really need that turbo.
The point is to make the electric motor high horsepower. That’s what powers acceleration and uphill driving. The gas engine just needs to provide average power.
Nov 21st, 2008 (10:47 pm)Great. Fisker has contracted Valmet Automotive to build up to 20 vehicles per week once it has equipped a plant to build them in. That means GM can count on selling almost a thousand of these engines. Nice. But will it make a difference to GM. No.
Nov 22nd, 2008 (9:15 am)#11 DB Cooper:
Kudos! It is easy (for some people) to stand up and grand stand when there is nothing riding on their words, but you are correct, and have the courage to stand up for what is right even when it may hurt you in the short term.
BTW, I suspect that if GM goes down, your unemployment will be short-lived, and the change of employment will turn out to be profitable. Good job!
FWIW, I saw this coming in the very early 1990s (one of several reasons I left GM).
Best regards,
D’Artagnon
Nov 22nd, 2008 (10:34 am)I don’t know all of the specs, but I’d have to say the Karma appears much closer to what I want (and what the concept Volt embodied). I am hopeful that GM can have a symbiotic relationship with Karma, and one day, get enough scale to bring the price down to a more attainable level (for me at least). If the Volt is going to be 40k, I’d place this closer to 60. At 100k (for initial roll-out) its far better than the Tesla, but still just a dream for me.
Nov 22nd, 2008 (10:41 am)#25 Dave G,
The point is to make the electric motor high horsepower. That’s what powers acceleration and uphill driving. The gas engine just needs to provide average power.
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I am not as versed on the Karma–forgive my ignorance–but is it possible that Fiskar is taking a different approach than the Volt and having the engine directly supply the wheels and/or battery? A lot of confusion has existed around this topic for the Volt, so it may be that Fiskar’s approach with how much and where the power goes is taking a different turn than the Volt.
I recall a post about climbing pike’s peak. My understanding was the Volt will have challenges, but that is a rare and extreme example. At 80k, I don’t think you are allowed to have a rare or extreme example. I’m just guessing Fiskar is overdoing it a bit so the car can outperform in any situation. At half the price, though, I’ll accept some limitations with the Volt.
Nov 22nd, 2008 (3:50 pm)Actually, Fisker intends production of 15,000 vehicles per year, so GM would be selling a lot of engines. Of course quantities will be low to start, but would ramp up rapidly.
Nov 22nd, 2008 (5:01 pm)This Fisker car is truly beautiful.
Too bad it is $80K
Nov 22nd, 2008 (7:04 pm)Speaking of BEV’s headed for our (USA) market the “Wheego Whip” seems to be coming out of no where set start selling next year. Initially will be marketed as NEV’s, but they are going to be having crash testing done to be highway legal. See http://www.evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=19720
Nov 23rd, 2008 (10:12 pm)Hmmm…
260 HP ICE generator for a luxury EREV…
Something Porsche has also been looking at.
Perhaps GM obtaining in exchange from Fisker some knowledge that may be useful in developing high-powered propulsion for EREV CTS and ‘Vette?
Nov 23rd, 2008 (11:31 pm)Fisker is the guy who was employed by TESLA and then quit to make his own car. He is being sued for stealing intellectual property from Tesla. Doubt he’s got much know-how that GM can’t obtain on their own.
Nov 24th, 2008 (12:01 pm)#13 Nelson:
It would be nice if GM paid their suppliers in advance for their parts as well, but that was the GM of yesteryear and not today. The reason why supplier costs tend to rise faster these days is to cover the risk of doing business with the Big Three. Need proof, just look at how many suppliers have gone out of business in the last 5 years.
I just think that all businesses should pay for their parts, or goods, when they get them. So, I agree with you that GM should be paid as the engines are delivered, but I go a step further and state that GM should also pay for their parts as they are delivered.
Nov 24th, 2008 (12:41 pm)Fisker has designed some of the best cars on the planet. The Karma is another example of his talent. It is the lowest roof height 4-door sedan ever slated for production. Long sexy hood to accomidate the EREV and great fender curves. This car will be successful and has already gained status with the rich and famous. Getting on the list to own could be profitable in itself by selling your spot in line after they start producing. It looks like Quantum Technologies will be using the GM engine to power the EREV system in the Fisker designed Karma. Good move, I would guess the extra power is needed to turn a bigger gen set so when sport mode is initiated it has the required amount of juice to go 0-60 mph in 5.8 seconds. Nice! This is the sports car of the future.
May 16th, 2009 (11:47 am)Note that the Karma allows for a “performance mode” in which the gas engine suplies power in parallel with the battery pack – for extra power when the battery pack is smaller than normal. The recent advances made by MIT and licensed by A123 Systems will enable a small battery pack to produce tons more power, so this strategy of Fisker’s will likely be limited to first generation Karmas.
Jul 20th, 2009 (1:23 pm)Michael, maybe a silly question, but does the “D” stand for “Dell”. If so, are you aware of EEStor developments, or involved with them in any way at a working/build-out level?
Many thanks!