Comments on: Full Details of the “Auto Industry Emergency Bridge Loan Act” http://gm-volt.com/2008/11/21/full-details-of-the-auto-industry-emergency-bridge-loan-act/ Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt. Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:55:54 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: wwskinn3 http://gm-volt.com/2008/11/21/full-details-of-the-auto-industry-emergency-bridge-loan-act/#comment-82665 wwskinn3 Tue, 25 Nov 2008 01:14:35 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1390#comment-82665 GM needs to trim the number of models it sells if it is ever going to move forward again. Look at the other companies like Toyota, Nissan, and others. They basically make 2 small cars - two mid size cars, and two SUV's and trucks (1 small and 1 larger). They have been successful with this concept. GM makes too many models of small cars, too many models of the other cars - I don't know how many models of trucks it makes and too many models of SUV's. Ford is getting more like GM with too many models of SUV's. Both companies need to trim the number of models they make and concentrate more on quality. GM needs to trim the number of models it sells if it is ever going to move forward again. Look at the other companies like Toyota, Nissan, and others. They basically make 2 small cars – two mid size cars, and two SUV’s and trucks (1 small and 1 larger). They have been successful with this concept.

GM makes too many models of small cars, too many models of the other cars – I don’t know how many models of trucks it makes and too many models of SUV’s. Ford is getting more like GM with too many models of SUV’s.

Both companies need to trim the number of models they make and concentrate more on quality.

]]> By: J Man http://gm-volt.com/2008/11/21/full-details-of-the-auto-industry-emergency-bridge-loan-act/#comment-82408 J Man Sun, 23 Nov 2008 06:34:44 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1390#comment-82408 The 95% that we gat paid does not come from the company, the state and the union pay that. When a plant closes buyouts are offered, or at least have been the last few years. This gets the people with enough time to retire to do so and gets others to walk away from the company. Many are given the chance to transfer to another plant. This allows the employee to stay with the company if they so desire. The one issue if you continue to transfer is that there has to be an opening at a plant for you to go to. Just so you know, salary employees have the same ability to transfer. Just curious has anyone taken the time to see what the package for a salary employee is? I am sure it is pretty comparable if not more. On another note, Back when Bill Clinton was in office and the economy was good and people were buying cars, GM was making money and they had around 4x the number of employees than they do now (union and non union). If the economy was not ruined by the moron that took his place (Bush), people would still be buying cars and GM would not have to be looking for loans from the government. Back in the '80's when Chrysler needed help we were in a recession, so I am told, I was still in elementary school. Check and see how much GM wasted on Fiat. The union had nothing to do with that. It would have given the company two more months to survive. I am sure you can find other ways GM has wasted billions without any help from the unions. The 95% that we gat paid does not come from the company, the state and the union pay that.

When a plant closes buyouts are offered, or at least have been the last few years. This gets the people with enough time to retire to do so and gets others to walk away from the company. Many are given the chance to transfer to another plant. This allows the employee to stay with the company if they so desire. The one issue if you continue to transfer is that there has to be an opening at a plant for you to go to. Just so you know, salary employees have the same ability to transfer.

Just curious has anyone taken the time to see what the package for a salary employee is? I am sure it is pretty comparable if not more.

On another note, Back when Bill Clinton was in office and the economy was good and people were buying cars, GM was making money and they had around 4x the number of employees than they do now (union and non union). If the economy was not ruined by the moron that took his place (Bush), people would still be buying cars and GM would not have to be looking for loans from the government. Back in the ’80’s when Chrysler needed help we were in a recession, so I am told, I was still in elementary school. Check and see how much GM wasted on Fiat. The union had nothing to do with that. It would have given the company two more months to survive. I am sure you can find other ways GM has wasted billions without any help from the unions.

]]> By: Drew http://gm-volt.com/2008/11/21/full-details-of-the-auto-industry-emergency-bridge-loan-act/#comment-82385 Drew Sun, 23 Nov 2008 03:59:15 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1390#comment-82385 J Man You just help make my point. GM shuts down a plant because it is not profitable and you keep 95% of your salary for 48 weeks!!! Then you must be rehired. Maybe you have been in the union too long, but normal people in normal jobs don't have anything close to that type of protection. That is just one of the reasons that the total union package averages more than $70 per hour, and why the big three can't be competative with non union companies. And yes, like you said the big three "had" to agree to this package that is putting them out of business. Utherwise there would have been a strike and they would have been put out of business by the resulting walkout. The unions will never back off of these benifit plans enough to save the car companies. The only way to get out of these contracts is to file chapter 11 and start from scratch. I think that the big three can make very good cars but they will never be competative with the nonunion companies. As long as their is competition, they will be undersold in price or out marketed with more and better features for the same price. J Man
You just help make my point. GM shuts down a plant because it is not profitable and you keep 95% of your salary for 48 weeks!!! Then you must be rehired. Maybe you have been in the union too long, but normal people in normal jobs don’t have anything close to that type of protection. That is just one of the reasons that the total union package averages more than $70 per hour, and why the big three can’t be competative with non union companies. And yes, like you said the big three “had” to agree to this package that is putting them out of business. Utherwise there would have been a strike and they would have been put out of business by the resulting walkout. The unions will never back off of these benifit plans enough to save the car companies. The only way to get out of these contracts is to file chapter 11 and start from scratch. I think that the big three can make very good cars but they will never be competative with the nonunion companies. As long as their is competition, they will be undersold in price or out marketed with more and better features for the same price.

]]> By: law http://gm-volt.com/2008/11/21/full-details-of-the-auto-industry-emergency-bridge-loan-act/#comment-82342 law Sat, 22 Nov 2008 22:14:39 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1390#comment-82342 They need to put up a tariff to foreign oil or else as Obama reduces our oil demand the price of oil will drop and cause domestic production to drop faster than the reduction of demand and thus make us more dependent on foreign oil. They need to put up a tariff to foreign oil or else as Obama reduces our oil demand the price of oil will drop and cause domestic production to drop faster than the reduction of demand and thus make us more dependent on foreign oil.

]]> By: J Man http://gm-volt.com/2008/11/21/full-details-of-the-auto-industry-emergency-bridge-loan-act/#comment-82315 J Man Sat, 22 Nov 2008 17:53:27 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1390#comment-82315 #120 Drew Please get your info right before posting. If GM shut own all of their plants and laid off all the union employees it would not cost the company anything for the next 48 weeks. The state would pay the unemployment and the union pays out the sub pay to get it up to 95% of the employees take home pay. Under your senerio people would not be off that long as there is not the stock built up to maintain that kind of lay off. Also they would still keep the salary workers in the plant, at least that is what they are doing these 2 weeks at my plant. Depending on what the plant does or car they build there would be places working to keep up with the cars that are selling (Cobalt, Malibu) _____________________________________________________ On another note, I know a lot of people complain about the job bank. When that is enacted at a plant, it is mutually agreed to by the plant management and the local union. The company does have the option to bring back the laid off employee after the 48 weeks agree to in the national contract and lay off other workers. At another plant I worked at they asked for volunteers for the lay off. It was given based on seniority from the top down. They had to be called back before their time was up due to other employees taking the first buyout that was offered. Also I want to remind everyone that GM, Ford and Chrysler all have to agree to what is in the contract with any union before it is sent to the membership for a vote. They may not like it but they have to agree to it. #120 Drew

Please get your info right before posting. If GM shut own all of their plants and laid off all the union employees it would not cost the company anything for the next 48 weeks. The state would pay the unemployment and the union pays out the sub pay to get it up to 95% of the employees take home pay.

Under your senerio people would not be off that long as there is not the stock built up to maintain that kind of lay off. Also they would still keep the salary workers in the plant, at least that is what they are doing these 2 weeks at my plant. Depending on what the plant does or car they build there would be places working to keep up with the cars that are selling (Cobalt, Malibu)
_____________________________________________________

On another note, I know a lot of people complain about the job bank. When that is enacted at a plant, it is mutually agreed to by the plant management and the local union. The company does have the option to bring back the laid off employee after the 48 weeks agree to in the national contract and lay off other workers. At another plant I worked at they asked for volunteers for the lay off. It was given based on seniority from the top down. They had to be called back before their time was up due to other employees taking the first buyout that was offered.

Also I want to remind everyone that GM, Ford and Chrysler all have to agree to what is in the contract with any union before it is sent to the membership for a vote. They may not like it but they have to agree to it.

]]> By: Drew http://gm-volt.com/2008/11/21/full-details-of-the-auto-industry-emergency-bridge-loan-act/#comment-82295 Drew Sat, 22 Nov 2008 15:15:38 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1390#comment-82295 The big three auto execs need to get a big dose of reality. With $20+ mill. salaries and company jets to take them anywhere they desire, all from companies loosing billions, how can we expect them to wake up and right their gross mismanagement. The automakers need new leaders who will stand up to the UAW and either get rid of them or produce a contract that will let them get profitable. They are so deep into bad union rules, if they shut down all of their plants today and manage to sell all of the cars they have siting on sales lots, they will still loose money because they have to pay their workers 80% of their salaries wheather they are building cars or not. The unions will not accept changes to the contracts until the companies are out of business. If we give them loans it will only delay their demise. I say don't give them loans, let them file chapter 11, reorganise, get rid of the UAW, and emerge as a far better campany. The big three auto execs need to get a big dose of reality. With $20+ mill. salaries and company jets to take them anywhere they desire, all from companies loosing billions, how can we expect them to wake up and right their gross mismanagement. The automakers need new leaders who will stand up to the UAW and either get rid of them or produce a contract that will let them get profitable. They are so deep into bad union rules, if they shut down all of their plants today and manage to sell all of the cars they have siting on sales lots, they will still loose money because they have to pay their workers 80% of their salaries wheather they are building cars or not. The unions will not accept changes to the contracts until the companies are out of business. If we give them loans it will only delay their demise. I say don’t give them loans, let them file chapter 11, reorganise, get rid of the UAW, and emerge as a far better campany.

]]> By: RichardG http://gm-volt.com/2008/11/21/full-details-of-the-auto-industry-emergency-bridge-loan-act/#comment-82214 RichardG Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:16:38 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1390#comment-82214 This may have been mentioned; in today's WSJ: GM to return two leased corporate jets!!! This may have been mentioned; in today’s WSJ:

GM to return two leased corporate jets!!!

]]> By: microbatman http://gm-volt.com/2008/11/21/full-details-of-the-auto-industry-emergency-bridge-loan-act/#comment-82211 microbatman Sat, 22 Nov 2008 01:03:00 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1390#comment-82211 #16 Nuclearboy You nailed it!!! These out of touch lawers are the last peole I would like making financial decisons with my money. They are surrounded by spinless yes people and have no clue about what it takes to run a company. I'm scared and frightened. Good old fashion capitaism has been redfined. We should chang the last 4 words of our national anthiem from home of the brave to home of the hand outs!!! #16 Nuclearboy

You nailed it!!!

These out of touch lawers are the last peole I would like making financial decisons with my money.

They are surrounded by spinless yes people and have no clue about what it takes to run a company.

I’m scared and frightened. Good old fashion capitaism has been redfined.

We should chang the last 4 words of our national anthiem from home of the brave to home of the hand outs!!!

]]> By: Don Harmon http://gm-volt.com/2008/11/21/full-details-of-the-auto-industry-emergency-bridge-loan-act/#comment-82196 Don Harmon Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:49:48 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1390#comment-82196 Regarding the developments with the American Automobile industry - I hope for the disintegration of the BIG THREE, and the Unions and a re-birth of the Automobile industry. I see a plethora of companies - small start ups that will build new visionary electric and hybrid vehicles where the lines blur between E - Bikes, Motorcycles, and Cars. I see whole worlds of opportunities opening up for all of us and a time of re-birth which will bring the U.S. back to having U.S. products designed here and made here by smaller, leaner, more agressive companies who won't be flying around their CEO's in Gulfstreams (begging for money) while supporting more retirees than employees. America will always be the leader in design and marketing for the world and it's time to show the world that we can creatively destroy what's now become a failed business model ! I am in favor of dumping the trash and keeping the good stuff and starting all over again. This time we design the vehicles we want to have, and we make these vehicles here in smalller factories without any Union contracts that crush productivity, and we institute "profit sharing" plans. The U.S. government takes on more of the Health Care provisions, so it's not a millstone around the neck of this new breed of company, who will design and manufacture the next wave of personal transportation vehicles for the U.S. and the global market. I like to drive on the sunny side of the street ! Don Harmon Regarding the developments with the American Automobile industry – I hope for the disintegration of the BIG THREE, and the Unions and a re-birth of the Automobile industry. I see a plethora of companies – small start ups that will build new visionary electric and hybrid vehicles where the lines blur between E – Bikes, Motorcycles, and Cars. I see whole worlds of opportunities opening up for all of us and a time of re-birth which will bring the U.S. back to having U.S. products designed here and made here by smaller, leaner, more agressive companies who won’t be flying around their CEO’s in Gulfstreams (begging for money) while supporting more retirees than employees.

America will always be the leader in design and marketing for the world and it’s time to show the world that we can creatively destroy what’s now become a failed business model ! I am in favor of dumping the trash and keeping the good stuff and starting all over again. This time we design the vehicles we want to have, and we make these vehicles here in smalller factories without any Union contracts that crush productivity, and we institute “profit sharing” plans. The U.S. government takes on more of the Health Care provisions, so it’s not a millstone around the neck of this new breed of company, who will design and manufacture the next wave of personal transportation vehicles for the U.S. and the global market.

I like to drive on the sunny side of the street !

Don Harmon

]]> By: J Man http://gm-volt.com/2008/11/21/full-details-of-the-auto-industry-emergency-bridge-loan-act/#comment-82193 J Man Fri, 21 Nov 2008 23:43:03 +0000 http://gm-volt.com/?p=1390#comment-82193 #79 DonC #58 J Man - “(disputing Firefly’s suggestion) New draft will state that assembler pay will be set at $44 per hour ($73 per hour is just a bit much)” _____________________________________________________ I actually consider it making modifications. Firefly had a lot of good points, I just wanted to expand on it a bit. I honestly would be more than happy to take $44 an hour. but I would want that to be my actual hourly wage. I could take the difference from what I make now and buy my own health care through my wife's work (it is better than what GM provides for me now) and invest the rest for my retirement and would actually end up with more money than if I got a pension. That would still keep me under Obama's $250k tax rate for our household income. A part of that would be that GM would have to give me a lump sum for the pension time I have already built up since I have worked for the company. #79 DonC

#58 J Man – “(disputing Firefly’s suggestion) New draft will state that assembler pay will be set at $44 per hour ($73 per hour is just a bit much)”
_____________________________________________________

I actually consider it making modifications. Firefly had a lot of good points, I just wanted to expand on it a bit.

I honestly would be more than happy to take $44 an hour. but I would want that to be my actual hourly wage. I could take the difference from what I make now and buy my own health care through my wife’s work (it is better than what GM provides for me now) and invest the rest for my retirement and would actually end up with more money than if I got a pension. That would still keep me under Obama’s $250k tax rate for our household income. A part of that would be that GM would have to give me a lump sum for the pension time I have already built up since I have worked for the company.

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