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Automaker Aid Plan Gathers Steam in Advance of Next Week’s Sessions

November 13th, 2008 | Posted in: Financial, Politics

It has been reported that Rep Barney Frank (D) plans to introduce the new $25 billion auto loan package in a lame duck session of congress on Monday or Tuesday of next week with a hearing scheduled for Wednesday.

Congress members appear confident that the Bush administration wouldn’t veto the automaker bailout package.

A draft of the legislation has begun circulating and indicates the package would include stock warrants to repay the Treasury, limits to executive pay, and restrictions of bonuses for exiting executives.

It is expected that the Detroit 3 automakers and UAW president will be in attendance for the congressional meeting next week on Wednesday at which point they will be grilled by legislators.

Some legislators noted that the bailout should lead to long term viability and must have assurances that the automakers wont simply come back again in 6 months asking for more.

On another front GM has sent a letter to its network of dealers requesting they they go out and call and lobby their Representatives and Senators to get the bailout bill passed.

GM North America President Mark LaNeve wrote in the letter “as we’re in the midst of the deepest crisis our industry has ever faced, GM’s priority is on seeking support from various U.S. government agencies and congressional leaders,” and “next week, Congress and the current administration will determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation’s history.”

Source (Detroit Press)

You too can contact your Senator or Representative and tell them how you feel.

Posted by: Lyle

51 Responses to “Automaker Aid Plan Gathers Steam in Advance of Next Week’s Sessions”

Rashiid Amul Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 6:41 am

File chapter 11 and restructure. Fire Wagoner and his band of car company killing executives. Then hire Statik to run the company.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 6:53 am

I heard an interesting news article on NPR this morning concerning bankruptcy at GM.

You might be able to listen to it here. I think a lot of it has already been talked about amongst us.

“http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=96945326″

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 7:22 am

I just wrote this morning to some representatives in the European Union to condition the financial help that automotive companies are asking to their respective governments on this side of the Atlantic Ocean to the quick development AND production of EREVs. To date one positive reaction.

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Joe Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 7:27 am

The video above is nothing but a bunch of lies, one after another. For one, the health insurance has huge deducts and co-pays and don’t pay anything for doctors office visits. My wife insurance is much better than the GM’s. For another, the work rules consists about twenty pages, not an inch thick and are much in favor to GM. How someone can just lie and lie like this is beyond me.

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Exp_EngTech Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 7:29 am

FYI…..

TIME / CNN piece today….

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1858702,00.html?xid=site-cnn-partner

My take on this has done a 180 in the last few days.

I say let it collapse now.

GM’s upper management needs a thorough delousing.

I’ve also read a few articles about the “Job Banks”. The UAW people clock in and get paid for doing NOTHING for years and years.

Hunger cures some problems in life.

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Dave K. Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 7:38 am

I don’t want our government to a bail out anyone. And the current unspent billions in bail out money should be revoked.

The price of goods, homes, and jobs levels will settle in to an equilibrium over time. Please Uncle Sam, follow the U.S. Constitution and just stay out of it.

=D~

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Rashiid Amul Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 7:49 am

I wrote my Congressman. Hopefully he will listen. I don’t have great hopes about that though.

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THOM Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 7:52 am

This is socialism at it best…the government will own it all. It is ironic that we are in iraq fighting for iraq freedom.

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Dave K. Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:06 am

hi Rashiid Amul #1,

“…hire Statik to run the company.”

______________________________

I won’t work for CEO Statik unless I get double time and one half on weekend shifts and 5 weeks PTO (plus bereavement and maternity) per year.

Oh, and don’t forget the ice blue Volt with a 15% employee discount.

=D~

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GXT Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:17 am

8.THOM,

I think the ironic thing is that the US has been brainwashed to believe socialism and freedom are like oil and water.

I also think it is ironic that you believe the US is in Iraq fighting for freedom. If it was socialism or capitalism that sold out the US soldiers, my money is on capitalism.

I’m not in favour of bailing out GM, but socialism does work in many instances. The US just sucks at it because they have kept themselves willfully ignorant of it. US “socialism” appears to be just a tool of failed capitalism. If it has any “social” aspects it is merely a side effect. Now the rest of the world will watch as the US screws up doing this pretend socialism and socialism will take the blame.

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statik Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:19 am

#1 Rashiid

File chapter 11 and restructure. Fire Wagoner and his band of car company killing executives. Then hire Statik to run the company.
————————————–

I would, but then it would be awkward and possibly hypocritical coming here to mock myself for the way I ran the company. Besides that, ‘limits to executive pay’? I needs my private jet.

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Msk1ster Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:32 am

The audio above is right on!! The unions need to go and go now!!!

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RB Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:34 am

“http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/13/business/economy/13bankruptcy.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin”

NYT front-page story (print and online) on some pros and cons of GM going into Chapter 11.

It’s politically interesting that the NYT has a story today that even hints there might be some good things about C 11, as the NYT is an Obama newpaper as totally as one can be, so there must be some doubts among those in his camp.

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statik Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:36 am

One part of the article I like is this:

“Some legislators noted that the bailout should lead to long term viability and must have assurances that the automakers wont simply come back again in 6 months asking for more.”

In other news, “Some legislators also live in a magic land with sugar plum trees”

———————————
Random notes for today:

1.) JP Morgan downgrades GM from ‘overweight’ to ‘neutral’ — Stunning piece of analytical work there JP. This also coming one day after rating the bonds a ‘buy’

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid=%7bC5F88A9D-4CDD-4796-B64B-26A79E0FCEA8%7d&siteid=yhoof2

2.) Becoming more important lately, we have weekly jobless claims. Numbers over 400,000 indicate a recession typically. The street expects a seasonally adjusted level of 484,000. We continue to march to double digit unemployment…that will be fun times.

3.) We got US foreclosure rates for October today. Up 25% year over year, and up 5% from last month. (These numbers are also held artifically low this month because of changes to the foreclosue laws, forcing some states to give a additional 30-45 days notice before filing a default notice…so we can look forward to next month being a ‘doozy’)

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Foreclosure-rates-up-25-apf-13555574.html
————————————–

Lets recap just the last 24 hours news. Unemployment is skyrocketing, as are foreclosures, along with Wednesday’s news that nationwide housing prices are down 9.7% and more data on the credit markets being locked up. And ‘legislators’ want assurances that with another 25 billion dollars the ‘big 2.8′ won’t come back in 6 months asking for more?

/I think they will get their wish…they will be back in 3.

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Dave B Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:38 am

Rashiid @ 1,

I usually agree with your posts–but Chapter 11 is not the answer here. As someone who deals with bankruptcy almost daily, it will kill many of GM’s suppliers because they will simply not be paid for their goods and services. What people must understand is someone foots the bill when there is a bankruptcy. GM will not be able to get financing all the while crushing its shareholders. NO Bankruptcy Please! I hate bailouts, but with the proper strings (executive pay hikes and equity shares for Uncle Sam), it can work.

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Dave B Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:40 am

One more point…the Volt could very well be the answer to oil independence. Anyone giving that argument?

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statik Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:41 am

Lyle, just curious about this:

“You too can contact your Senator or Representative and tell them how you feel.”

Officially…just how do we feel at GM-Volt? How do you feel? Sounds like a good ‘poll’ question.

/c’mon 5 GM bailout threads in a row

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Bearclaw Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:43 am

From the CNN piece above from #5 Exp_EngTech

Although the Detroit Three directly employed about 240,000 people last year, according to the industry-allied Center for Automotive Research (CAR) in Ann Arbor, Mich., the multiplier effect is large, which is typical in manufacturing. Throw in the partsmakers and other suppliers, and you have an additional 974,000 jobs. Together, says CAR, these 1.2 million workers spend enough to keep 1.7 million more people employed. That gets you to 2.9 million jobs tied to the Detroit Three, and even if you discount the figures because of CAR’s allegiance, it’s a big number. Shut down Detroit, and the national unemployment rate heads toward 10% in a hurry.

National Unemployment Rate.

Hope they make the right decision.

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Bearclaw Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:51 am

I read part of the link posted from the previous thread about the Japanese culture and how they do business over there.

I recommend it. It made me think about how they help their businesses become powerful and succeed and our government regulations hinder our companies from becoming too powerful.

It made them sound pretty racist though.

The sad part was thinking of Bush negotiating with them and just being too stupid to understand they were lying to him.

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Morgan Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 8:57 am

18 Bearclaw:

What should really scare you…

we changed the way we calculate unemployment a few years ago to make it an artificially lower number than the old calculation. In 1970’s figures that 10% is probably more like 13-14%

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RB Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:01 am

18 Bearclas refers to information from the Center for Automotive Research (CAR)
=======================================

While CAR has some useful information, it is good to keep in mind that CAR is a captive organization of the Detroit automakers and can be counted on to provide their side of the story.

For example, in their report they listed jobs lost, not just at GM but at other supplier companies, and they do so in the most expansive way possible. It is the worst case argument.

The other side is that if all 3 were gone then there would be a lot of new US auto-related employment, auto-related contracts, and auto-related small business. Those jobs will be associated with the non-Detroit companies. Those people who work for the new Honda plant are glad to have new jobs, at this particular moment, as would the new works who would be hired if the Detroit companies were no longer there.

Reorganizations are painful and often unfair to individuals affected, but when looking at events from a national scale it is necessary to keep all parties in the picture. CAR data is a partial picture, presented as support for a particular conclusion, not the whole picture.

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Morgan Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:02 am

19 Bearclaw:

they weren’t lying to him. The Japanese government can no more force people to purchase US goods and services than we can force people to purchase Japanese goods.

Think of an entire nation of people who check tags and “made in” labels and a government who makes sure those “made in” labels actually mean something.

There are some people out there who believe that Toyota will never purchase a single slice of a US auto manufacturer because, in order to do so, they would have to open their books to the US government and then we would know exactly how much the Japanese government has “subsidized” their operations and research.

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RB Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:12 am

19 Bearclaw says
“I read part of the link posted from the previous thread about the Japanese culture and how they do business over there.”
===============================================

The Japanese companies provide a lot of jobs in the US, and the people who have those jobs are happy to have them.

Automotive customers in the US just look at the results of the process. Many prefer GM, but many others prefer Honda or Toyota. Honda is so focused on the American market that it is probably more American, in terms percentages, than is GM, even though the corporate HQ is elsewhere.

It is the American way to let the customer decide. GM will never be a success unless it can provide products and prices that customers prefer. No amount of Japan-bashing will change that. GM has improved a lot in recent years, and I hope they find a way to continue in business, but it has to be through making superior products.

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Dave K. Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:13 am

hi bearclaw #18,

“Throw in the partsmakers and other suppliers, and you have an additional 974,000 jobs…”

_________________________________

I live just outside of a city in Southern California. The Circuit City store here had not been doing well. In the few times I went shopping there I saw about 30 people looking at appliances and electrical equipment. And about 15 sales people on the floor.

I thought, “How in the heck can this place make any money with all this overhead?”.

Well, as we all know. They didn’t make money and they closed the doors. Now we locals in misery with no place to buy a boombox. But wait! The newspaper announced that Best Buy will be moving in next month! And have shopped there before and know they are low priced and have a great variety.

__________________________________

This is how business and opportunity should work in America. Not picking our favorites and spending tax money to band aide the overhead problems.

=D~

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Grant Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:17 am

Realistically, as far as the financial bailout, it would cost less to simply buy up the mortgages strait, then blanket-forgive them all. Sounds insane but in terms of cost it would actually be cheaper. It won’t help the credit markets, but that’s not actually an issue more money will solve anyway.

I have no idea what to think about GM anymore, it is rather insane. I do still want the Volt, but if they can not make it, Mazda will.

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TCook Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:22 am

OK here is my suggestion, let the government bail them out, but require that the production that they produce for the next 2 years, inclucing the volt, be sold at 5% over cost of the vehicle. Force the creditors to start giving car loans again, and people will purchase the cars. Hense, they will all start making money again.

A little idealistic I know, but I can be hopeful.

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Jeff Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:24 am

#17 Statik
/c’mon 5 GM bailout threads in a row

I agree…C’Mon….it makes me think that the Volt program has been put on “Holld”. Has it?

If wanted to hear about the Big 3 bailout, I just need to go to any other news site.

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Tom H Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:25 am

If GM went into Chapter 11, their stock would become worthless, and would never regain its value unless GM successfully emerged, and began paying its obligations. Next, the holders of debt would see the value of their bonds and other instruments plunge, as GM would no longer be required to honor them. As has been stated on this page many times, they also would be able to repudiate their labor contracts, subject to approval by the court. The cash from sales of their products, much of which they had been using to pay interest, can now be conserved, and used to pay salaries and suppliers.

All sounds pretty good. But I see two downsides. First, it may not be possible for GM to successfully repudiate their contracts. If too many union members become embittered, and fail to do good work, GM cannot succeed. I have worked in unionized plants, including a UAW plant, and I can tell you that many of these guys would like nothing better than to do their part to effect the permanent destruction of GM. I know this seems illogical, because GM is the only thing that stands between many of these guys and a minimum wage job, but that is the way many union members think.

The second issue with C11 for GM is simply, “I need a car. There are about 10 major makers who want my business, and offer a car in the category that fits my needs. 9 are not bankrupt. Do I buy a car from a bankrupt company”?

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Ter Meenal Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:29 am

Lyle:

Have you considered renaming your blog site?

Possible options include: (inspired by bad movie titles….)

GM-Deathwatch
GM-Saw’d-up
GM-Gonein60days
GM-Cannonfodderrun

Ter

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Jason M. Hendler Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:30 am

Tesla, Fisker, Aptera, Zap and any other automakers with domestic factories should be included in this bill. Tesla just laid off 1/4 of their workforce, so they should be there with their hands out as well.

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statik Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:34 am

#16 Dave B

One more point…the Volt could very well be the answer to oil independence. Anyone giving that argument?
—————————-
I doubt you can make that argurment. At least not with the Volt. A low level production car at 40K? The car is way too flawed when thinking about mass adoption by the public and trying to get to the holy grail of ‘oil independence’…it could maybe be seen as some kind of symbolic first step, but I think we need to be moving past that at this point.

IF we are talking about a SERIOUS attempt to get off foreign oil, it actually costs very little, it is just a matter of public adoption of some changes:

Here are the FOUR major (and simple) things America could do …ironic thing is that the first three are completely free, and the fourth makes money.

1.) Repeal the 10 year/150,000 mile warranty on battery packs to something reasonable–like a national warranty standard, 5 years/60K

2.) Exempt status/lower benchmarks for crash/safety regulation on smaller/electric vehicles. Which would immediately allow ‘Euro/international’ models to enter the market. (I’m not saying death boxes here either mind you…naturally, they would still put a warning sticker on it).

3.) Allow electric LSV vehicles on all city roads, in every state and on all roads with speed limit of 40 mph and lower.

4.) Invoke a 3.5% quarterly increase of a base gallon of oil for 5 years…effectively doubling the cost of gas over that time, but giving the public time to adjust…all the money to renewable energy solutions and EV rebates.

Seems smarter to do even one of those, than to try and justify spending 500 billion dollars on three automakers maybe spitting out 250,000 EVs over the next five years. (EVs that only the decently well off can afford).

Better yet, imagine what would happen if the government just gave GM, Ford and Chrysler a order for $500 billion worth of electric cars? They all have their credit back instantly, their employment stabilizes (if not expands), they can ‘compete’ with the foreign automakers, and we all get electric vehicles (and cheap too with that kind of volume and less standards)…the bonus is the government gets some return on their money when they are sold, avoids the headache of automaker collapse, and of course the infamous, ‘oil independence’ movement gets a big kick in the pants.

/that was just spit-balling a wild idea…please don’t anyone take it too seriously as my hardened opinion (coffee talk if you will)

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:44 am

Statik #31

#16 Dave B

One more point…the Volt could very well be the answer to oil independence. Anyone giving that argument?
—————————-
I doubt you can make that argurment. At least not with the Volt. A low level production car at 40K? The car is way too flawed when thinking about mass adoption by the public and trying to get to the holy grail of ‘oil independence’

————————

Correct dear Statik, I agree.

JC NPNS !

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statik Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:47 am

#14 Statik (me) says,

“2.) Becoming more important lately, we have weekly jobless claims. Numbers over 400,000 indicate a recession typically. The street expects a seasonally adjusted level of 484,000. We continue to march to double digit unemployment…that will be fun times.”
———————————-
The street was wrong…go figure.

“Jobless claims jump unexpectedly to 7-year high…signaling rapid deterioration in the labor market ”

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Labor Department on Thursday reported that jobless claims last week increased by 32,000 to a seasonally adjusted 516,000. That nearly matched the 517,000 claims reported seven years ago, and is the second-highest total since 1992.

The increase puts jobless claims at levels similar to the recession of the early 1990s. The four-week average of claims, which smooths out fluctuations, increased to 491,000, the highest in more than 17 years.

Thursday’s report could affect the political debate in Congress over whether to enact another economic stimulus package and what it should include. Democrats want to add an extension of unemployment benefits, which last 26 weeks

Several companies recently have announced mass layoffs, including Morgan Stanley, General Motors Corp., Ford Motor Co., and Fidelity Investments.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Jobless-claims-jump-apf-13557495.html

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RB Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:56 am

#31 statik said — perhaps tongue in cheek —
Better yet, imagine what would happen if the government just gave GM, Ford and Chrysler a order for $500 billion worth of electric cars? They all have their credit back instantly, their employment stabilizes (if not expands), they can ‘compete’ with the foreign automakers, and we all get electric vehicles (and cheap too with that kind of volume and less standards)…the bonus is the government gets some return on their money when they are sold, avoids the headache of automaker collapse, and of course the infamous, ‘oil independence’ movement gets a big kick in the pants.
=================================

This is a wonderful idea. The Treasury then can resell them to us for a $500 handling fee, as we will already have paid for them. A billion “free” Volts will be a huge kickstart to the electric car market, and “take that, Toyota”.

US only, naturally. Canadians can buy their own.

It is a little over the top, but there was a huge boom after WWII made possible by “surplus” military goods coming on to the market. (Not jeeps though, the government crushed them, sadly. )

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Cautious Fan Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:58 am

I’m tired. Yeah I hate this thing, but I’ve said my piece on it so…..

South Korean scientist claims to have improved the energy storage of lithium ion batteries 8X

http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/13/korean-geniuses-invent-lithium-batteries-with-eight-times-the-ju/

I don’t believe it either, but at least it’s something to think about besides the federal deficit.

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Len Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:58 am

Help me understand this, in the NYT article on the potential bankrupsy, it was said that even if they go bankrupt in a year that would be better than now. Why? They are actually advocating prolonging the agony. Here is the quote:

Professor Helper, of Case Western Reserve, said the social cost to communities in Michigan, Ohio and other states where its 55 plants and other operations are located could be devastating, if G.M. were to liquidate or significantly cut its work force.

“Even if they go bankrupt in a year, it is better than going bankrupt now,” given the state of the national economy, she said. “From a social point of view, even if G.M. is not providing a return on investment, it is still providing a lot of good jobs.”

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statik Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 10:08 am

#34 RB

#31 statik said — perhaps tongue in cheek —
Better yet, imagine what would happen if the government just gave GM, Ford and Chrysler a order for $500 billion worth of electric cars? They all have their credit back instantly, their employment stabilizes (if not expands), they can ‘compete’ with the foreign automakers, and we all get electric vehicles (and cheap too with that kind of volume and less standards)…the bonus is the government gets some return on their money when they are sold, avoids the headache of automaker collapse, and of course the infamous, ‘oil independence’ movement gets a big kick in the pants.
—-

#34 RB said,
This is a wonderful idea. The Treasury then can resell them to us for a $500 handling fee, as we will already have paid for them. A billion “free” Volts will be a huge kickstart to the electric car market, and “take that, Toyota”.

US only, naturally. Canadians can buy their own.
It is a little over the top, but there was a huge boom after WWII made possible by “surplus” military goods coming on to the market. (Not jeeps though, the government crushed them, sadly. )

—————————–

I was thinking that the government would order the cars and sell them at cost…not necessarily for free. A 500 billion dollar order, should let them mass produce/sell a car at $20,000 a pop. That way the gov’t has a shot at getting a good portion of its intial ‘bailout’ money back.

I wasn’t really tongue in cheek about it…I think it is still a good idea, it is just so over the top, I didn’t want to put it out there as something I honesly thought could happen.

I’ve just been musing some alternatives to bankruptcy that might have a shot…even if they are not being considered, even a little bit, by anyone. I’d put odds on it at 1,000 to 1, might be a little optimistic though.

(Actually that plan still works better if thye go C11, do all the streamlining and cutting…then the gov’t steps in with the massive EV contract, which would not only pull them out of C11, but do all those other good things)

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Reneckl Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 10:42 am

In Jan 09, President Obama should order immediate production of the Voltswagen and provide taxpayer subsidies for their purchase. This needs to become the new People’s Car.

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RB Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 10:49 am

#37 statik says about his proposal to order millions of electric cars:

(Actually that plan still works better if thye go C11, do all the streamlining and cutting…then the gov’t steps in with the massive EV contract, which would not only pull them out of C11, but do all those other good things)
====================================

I agree and like the plan.
Now you have to talk Nancy Pelosi and Barnie Frank into it.

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RB Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 10:55 am

#36 Len says
Help me understand this, in the NYT article on the potential bankrupsy, it was said that even if they go bankrupt in a year that would be better than now. Why? They are actually advocating prolonging the agony.
===========================================

It is an argument put forward by one of the people they quote, not a point of agreement. The thought, I believe, is that right now so many things are changing for the worse that maintaining some stability for a year or two in the Detroit situation, for workers and for communities, would be better than a bankruptcy now. The underlying thought may be that in a year or two the national and international economy may be more stable and perhaps incorporate a more optimistic outlook than it does now. Another underlying thought may be that people will handle things better if there is some transition time, and that the feds may handle things better if a new administration has time to get organized.

I don’t really know any of the above, just guessing. I really think that a big order for electric cars (statik’s idea) is the only positive idea I’ve heard so far. The rest are just perturbing slightly the rate at which things are going downhill.

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Exp_EngTech Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 11:10 am

1. Let the weak reorganize under Chapter 11.

2. After that occurs, the Fed makes available “coupons” like the DTV upgrade program. $10,000 towards the purchase of any US built vehicle. That might “prime the pump”….

https://www.dtv2009.gov/

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Keith Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 11:33 am

The only way to do the saving of the auto companies is to place an order for high mileage hybrids and pure electric vehicles .
The order has to specify that the hybrid engines are not to be over 1.5 liters in size though and they must have the ability to drive over 50 miles on gasoline when it is used as the operating fuel.
There must be a transparency accounting on every dollar spent and none is to be spent on any vehicle of any kind that uses an engine over 1.5 liters , if that were to happen then the bale out order transfer of payments stops right now , no bonus payments of any kind to anybody for any reason period .
Canada should get in to this deal as well as their government has stated that they are willing to put billions of dollars up to save these corporations from financial ruin . After all , the North American market is made up of United States and Canada anyway , we are in this thing together .
Just one thing though , the Volt should come out as a Cadillac Volt because it is priced like a Cadillac , not as a Chevrolet .
Later on when they can come out with shorter range and less battery and the ability for carrying five people then introduce the Chevrolet Volt and call it a Chevrolet Volt .There could even be a Buick version called the Buick Electra that is made on the same flex frame structure that is pure electric . GM plants in North America couldn’t build them fast enough to match the global demand especially if they were only made in North America for the first ten years as Toyota did and Honda and others have done over and over to protect their workers and their own economy . There are some excellent auto factories in Canada and United States that need something to do . Giving money wont do a darned thing , but placing an order for finished goods will save the jobs and incomes of thousands of workers directly and tens of thousands of jobs indirectly. Buying billions of dollars of shares will just enable current share holders to sell their shares and we will be right back in the same predicament in a month or less , you might actually be farther ahead to give the money directly to the shareholders as they might invest in some other auto or battery company that needs venture capital, you can buy a lot of serious production for $25,000,000,000.00.
Let me think about this for just one little minute , if the finished car was sold for $25,000.00 and it cost about $15,000.00 to make seems that the auto industry would make lots of money (USA prices) The same car could be landed in Seattle or San Francisco if it were made in China for about $8,000.00 USD and that is what will happen if the wrong thing is done , we will be buying BYD hybrids as they will be the only real ones that are made to North American standards , not smoke and mirrors.

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RB Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 11:44 am

#41 Exp_Eng Tech says
After that occurs, the Fed makes available “coupons” like the DTV upgrade program. $10,000 towards the purchase of any US built vehicle.
=======================================

As a detail, but a critical one, it is going to be hard to define what “US built” means now. Hondas will have a stronger case than many Chevys. But maybe that’s ok. Let a rising tide lift all boats.

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Dave B Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 12:16 pm

Statik @ 31:

Statik #31 writes

#16 Dave B

One more point…the Volt could very well be the answer to oil independence. Anyone giving that argument?

I doubt you can make that argurment. At least not with the Volt. A low level production car at 40K? The car is way too flawed when thinking about mass adoption by the public and trying to get to the holy grail of ‘oil independence’
—————————-

700 billion/ 40,000 = 17,500,000
bailout money/cost of Volt = 17,500,000
Now, dump that money into electric cars, and poof, no more oil. I know there are problems here Statik, I’m not dumb. But as Nasaman can attest, we made it to the moon and back. Just think.

(Quote)
rickj Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

- Statik for CEO.
- Nasaman for CTO.
- The rest of us can be put to work on the assembly line. First order of business: get a union organized.

(Quote)
statik Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 1:14 pm

#44 Dave B

I see you cross posted to the new thread, so I’ll just continue the discussion over there.

I didn’t mean to infer that you were unintelligent, sorry if I came across that way.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 2:35 pm

#31 Statik

All four of your points make too much sense for any of them to be adopted. Come on, now. To get things adopted you have to get some real “hair-brained” ideas thrown out there. Stop it with these suggestions that actually make sense. You keep putting forth these kinds of ideas, we gonna stop reading yours. haha

(Quote)
RB Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 2:58 pm

WSJ now: “The top Republican in the U.S. House of Representatives assailed plans Thursday for emergency aid to auto makers as “neither fair to taxpayers nor sound fiscal policy,” raising new doubts about Democrats’ ability to pass a rescue package.”

(Quote)
Jay Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 9:40 pm

If GM fails, this will create a chain reaction and we can say good-bye recession and hello depression!

(Quote)
Casey Says:
November 14th, 2008 at 1:37 am

GM, don’t go bankrupt it will cost millions of jobs, you say, what do you think will happen when the Volt comes out and the country finaly gets away from oil, there will be a lot more millions of jobs lost, think about it.

GO VOLT???? I don’t know?

(Quote)
Fahrvergnugen Fanboy Says:
November 14th, 2008 at 11:03 am

Here’s my proposal:

Government picks up x percent of all new car purchases,

where x = 5 * (CombinedMPG – 30), maybe up to 33 percent.

Adjust the 5, 30, and 33 to your taste.

Save the car industry, the planet, the country, and money, all at the same time. How often can you get a deal that good?

(Quote)

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