AND 
The Chevy Volt’s All Electric Range (AER) Will be 40 Miles Both at Beginning and End of Life
I discussed how and of the Chevy Volt battery pack all electric rage (AER) might change over the vehicle’s lifetime with Bob Kruse, who is GMs director of Hybrids and EVs.
If the AER is 40 miles at the end of life, what will the beginning of life AER be?
40 miles. What we’ve said is our objective is that we’re going to have up to 40 miles of electric-only range and we want the battery to last the life of the vehicle.
You have a cell phone with a lithium-ion battery in it right? After your cellphone is a year or two old, talk time is less, and if the battery is hot or cold, you can talk less too. Lithium ion batteries are like people, they like it to be room temperature. If you overcharge or overdischarge them you begin to wear the battery. We have intellectual property at GM that we’re particularly proud of. The first is a battery state of charge estimator, so we can estimate what the state of charge is. That particular piece of intellectual property is so good, other OEMs buy it from us. So we’ve got to know what it is. And in order to get the battery to last a long time we use a sweet spot. We never charge it or discharge it when its too hot or too cold. So there is a thermal management system of the battery pack. All of that knowledge as to what you have to do to lithium ion to get the 40 miles and last a long long time, that’s the intellectual property that I’m generating.
Its important to understand the solution for the Volt. When we did the EV-1 we learned that customers suffer from range anxiety. Our engineers used to drag little motorcycle engine generator trailer behind them to drive longer. Necessity is the mother of invention. So we moved the range extender into the vehicle.
So that fact whether its 38.2 miles or 40.2 miles when you’re out of electric range, the vehicle seamlessly generates its own electric power and continues to go.
If people drive very gingerly do you think they will be able to increase their AER?
I anticipate there will be contests out there to see how far people could drive before their gas engine goes on, or “How many days can I drive without using a drop of petroleum?” Our analysis tell us it take about 80 cents of electricity to go 40 miles, that’s about 2 cents per mile. At $3.40 gasoline its about 12 cents a mile in the average mid-sized car.
So there will then be no more range at beginning of life than end of life?
No, because if we do that, we will wear it out prematurely. I could use more of the energy capacity of the battery and give you more range, but the trade-off to that is that the battery will wear out sooner. In order to have a life of the vehicle battery I can’t use all of its capacity or it will wear it out soon.
104 Responses to “The Chevy Volt’s All Electric Range (AER) Will be 40 Miles Both at Beginning and End of Life”
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October 30th, 2008 at 6:25 am
thanks Lyle, good info as usual andmore optimistic than the previous post.
JC
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October 30th, 2008 at 6:43 am
You are right that necessity is the mother of invention. That goes along with Build a better mouse trap! Down the road as new technology gets into the picture and after certain people buy the Volt they will improve it as much as possible from their garages and shops with better batteries and improved generators and etc. The after market battery pack for the Prius is a good example of this kind of technology development. If there is money in it they will try! How many after market items are available for the small-block Chevy?
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October 30th, 2008 at 6:47 am
We never charge it or discharge it when its too hot or too cold. So there is a thermal management system of the battery pack.
OK… So what powers the thermal management system for the people that live in especially cold or hot climates? For example, you live in Alaska and don’t have a garage to moderate the temperature; does the battery have to be warmed up before it will take a charge when you plug it in? Electricity from either the wall socket or the ICE can obviously be used to warm the battery, but that means you will be using more electricity or gas than someone in Florida will use to go the same 40 miles.
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October 30th, 2008 at 6:50 am
Great info.
Question. Say the ICE won’t start and I’ve gone past the safe state of charge point. Would I be able to plug a battery or solar charger into a 12 volt receptical and charge it to get a mile or 2 to the next outlet or home?
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October 30th, 2008 at 6:58 am
Thanks Lyle, good info indeed. We just wish this car will be there ASAP with all the promises. Too many bad news for GM lately!
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:02 am
#3 MDDave – I agree. To use Bob Kruse’s words, I think there will be also be a “sweet spot” for drivers who get the most efficiency year round. Florida, Southern California, may be too hot. Canada, Michigan, Minnesota, too cold. You will still get a plug in vehicle with a 40 mile AER, but i think your overall energy costs will be slightly more than these sweet spot states. Having a garage will help, and maybe their are other options of warming or cooling not yet annouced. But i assume you are correct in that it will either use the ICE or power from your home.
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:03 am
There will be a hack for this in short order. Which means that buying a used volt will be a very serious risk
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:09 am
I would like to know at least in general terms, what temp is to cold or to hot.
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:12 am
I think most of us realize that there is a huge mark-up in auto parts. An item may only cost $10 to manufacture, but by the time it reaches the retail auto parts store, its price is $50.
This is the reason that the battery must last for the lifetime of the vehicle. Otherwise, the replacement cost may be close to the original cost of the vehicle (I read somewhere long ago that this was a problem for the EV1).
It seems that GM is going the extra distance to ensure longevity for the battery pack, and have even developed proprietary software to manage the battery charge level. I’m sure they will have spent millions of dollars on testing and data trending to achieve the optimum battery configuration and controls by 2010.
Since I would expect some decay in battery performance with time and use, as others have suggested, the battery pack may use less of its capacity in the early years (80% down to 40%, for example), and more in the latter years, (90% down to 20%). This would all be controlled by GM’s proprietary software.
Note, there will be other EV’s on the market in 2011, but this knowledge and practice is what will differentiate GM from the others, a battery pack that will have a guaranteed 10 year/150,000 mile life.
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:16 am
#7
“There will be a hack for this in short order. Which means that buying a used volt will be a very serious risk”
That was my first thought too. Someone will make a hack that will run the battery down to near nothing before the ICE kicks in. Depending on the driving style of the owner this may then dramatically shorten the life of the battery. I hope that GM has some non-tamperable way to save all the charge/discharge information for a battery (something sealed up inside the battery pack would be the logical approach). Then it’s just a matter of plugging the car in at a GM dealer and reading off the charge history. I’m sure GM will have something like this because they’re going to need all the charge/discharge information for every single Volt anyways.
- Xed
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:18 am
The 40 miles has become up to 40 miles, which of course means expect to get less than 40 miles.
80 cents for 40 miles is based on getting 5 miles per KWH and each KWH costing 10 cents. If we use 3.5 miles per KWH for a 28 miles range, and 13 cents per KWH baseline charge rate, we get $1.04 for 28 miles or close to 4 cents per mile. A Cruze that gets 40 MPG and buys $3.20 per gallon gas gets to 8 cents per mile, so the Volt is at least twice as good.
I still expect the SOC range to be increased from 50% to 67% to deliver on the up to 40 mile claim.
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Good article Lyle,
It would be interesting to understand the inner workings of how exactly it gives out the same approximate range from beginning to end. I guess that means it expands pack usage over time, but I wonder if this expansion comes from data on charge cycles, linear usage or real-world practical performance metrics
It would seem they are really trying to optimize the life of this battery, I wonder if that is out of a true desire for efficiency or a serious concern about the viability of the pack over time.
I will also note this statement with a little concern, “So that fact whether its 38.2 miles or 40.2 miles when you’re out of electric range….” is the first time I have ever heard any number but 40 from GM, and we are talking potentially on the very first use.
It sounds like my Volt out of the box might not be getting 40 miles. I think for most of us, we were thinking we would be getting a greater number (like 50) out of the wrapper and that would degrade down to 40 over time.
On the other hand, maybe the Volt will get us 40 miles regardless of driving habit at the start and will cut enough cornors over time, by shutting down early at 40 miles, that we will have a better/more consistant driving experience over the 10 years as a whole
/just thinking out loud
//I guess only time will bare out its success
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:20 am
Is he saying that the battery will not degrade at all over the first 150,000 miles? That would be great if he’s right but I highly doubt it. I wonder if software has been written to access more of the batteries capacity over time. So %35 to %85 at mile 1 and maybe %15 to %95 at mile 149,000. I don’t get that from the interview, but I just find it hard to believe that in 150,000 miles the battery will still be just as good as the day I bought the car.
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:25 am
BillR #9 and Statik #12, you guys beat me to it in the time it took to write my paragraph. Great minds think alike I guess
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:26 am
Bearclaw Says: @4
Great info.
Question. Say the ICE won’t start and I’ve gone past the safe state of charge point. Would I be able to plug a battery or solar charger into a 12 volt receptical and charge it to get a mile or 2 to the next outlet or home?
******************************************************************
As for a solar charger the answer is yes, If you don’t mind waiting two weeks to get it charged. Most people don’t realize that photovoltaic has a long way to go technologically before it becomes feasible.
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:27 am
That is perhaps one of the most reassuring posts for me as battery life is a primary concern. I know that someone will come in here and flame GM for not offering more range, but then if the battery only lasts 3 years they’ll gripe about that. Kudos. Besides, with OEM technology leased out to the aftermarket, how long do you think we’ll have to wait before someone offers a battery with perhaps an 80 mile AER?
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:35 am
October 30th, 2008 at 7:40 am
GM, there’s hope for you yet.
With this car, you can drive 15,000 miles per year for less than what a single car payment will cost you. Sure, not all of your miles will be under 40 a day…but most of the daily miles we drive will be.
I understand the skepticism of “I’ll believe it when I see it” (like EESTOR) but if anyone out there is unwilling to consider the possibility that we are on the verge of a new day in transportation, they have an ulterior motive.
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:43 am
#7
“There will be a hack for this in short order. Which means that buying a used volt will be a very serious risk”
Start writing the book/movie! Just around the corner, V-DAY! The sequel to V for Vendetta. Except in V-DAY, some high school kid/computer hack writes a virus and uploads it to every Volt on the road, coordinating the shutdown of their systems at the exact same time, say, around 8:00 am, on November 27th, 2020, the day after Thanksgiving and the biggest shopping day of the year, after a stellar financial year and everyone is finally going shopping after a long and drawn out recession!
And, in an ironic twist, the proceeds from the movie will keep GM afloat!
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:43 am
Great info. Lyle! I had a misconception before reading this that the Volt would have say a 50 mile AER at beginning of life to offer a 40 mile AER by end of life. What Kruse said gives a lot of insight to the nature of these batteries and how they need to be handled to give long-life.
I always learn so much coming here!
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October 30th, 2008 at 8:18 am
So it looks like GM is varying the customer depletion point (CDP) in software based on the age of the vehicle or number of miles driven. That means the battery will wear out much faster at end-of-life. I guess that’s OK.
I’ll echo #4 Bearclaw’s question:
Will we be able to jump-start the Volt?
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October 30th, 2008 at 8:21 am
I know a lot of people want to rush the car into production but I am glad they are taking the time to do it right.
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October 30th, 2008 at 8:23 am
Not bad!
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October 30th, 2008 at 8:28 am
“I could use more of the energy capacity of the battery and give you more range, but the trade-off to that is that the battery will wear out sooner. In order to have a life of the vehicle battery I can’t use all of its capacity or it will wear it out soon.”
Sounds less likely that there will be that feature where the car knows how close to home you are and will not run the ICE if you could make it on the juice left in the battery.
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October 30th, 2008 at 8:30 am
It seems to me the battery would act the same as a gas engine as far as range is concerned. If you do jack rabbit starts your range is shorter. If you drive like you have an egg under your foot your range will be longer. The volt system keeps the battery between 40% and 80% state of charge. This has to be how it works. So if you drive conservative you should get more than 40 miles. At least that’s what I think.
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October 30th, 2008 at 8:36 am
18. Eco,
“With this car, you can drive 15,000 miles per year for less than what a single car payment will cost you. ”
Why are people still making economic arguments for the Volt? It doesn’t make economic sense (yet). Find another reason to buy one.
If your statement was true it implies a cost-effectiveness that ignores the high initial cost.
Plus what yo wrote isn’t true. You are still looking at ~$300, which may be less than a VOLT car payment, but is much more than a Civic or a Corolla car payment.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Posts like this is why I come to GM-Volt.com…………..
I truly belive that the Volt will be a game changer for transportation!
The engineers on this project have to be really proud of their accomplishments.
Go GM! Go GM Volt Team!
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:07 am
Very interesting post. So much more goes into this design process than meets the eye. We all can follow this birthing process very closely now when, in the past, we only got to see the new baby after it was born and all cleaned up for the viewing.
Thats the first time I have seen the charger screen.
Very cool display.
Nice to get away from the GM/armageddon talk for a while, even if its true.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:13 am
I keep seeing the same bogus economic argument against the Volt, or any PHEV for that matter. The story goes like this: You will not save enough in gas to make up for the premium you pay up front. Resale does not seem to fit into the story.
The higher resale value of the Prius, especially if it has HOV stickers, makes up a great deal of the initial Hybrid premium. Therefore it made economic sense to buy say a 2005 Prius, over a 2005 Corolla. For example you buy a Prius for 23,000 and sell for 17,000, taking a 6000 loss. Compare to a Corolla you buy for 17,000 and sell for 11,000 taking a 6000 loss. Thus all the money you saved in gas makes economic sense.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:13 am
Before this, we expected 40 miles at “end of life” and more than 40 miles when new. The details keep changing as the Volt becomes more real, but the basic idea remains; an E-REV with 40-mile [your mileage may vary] range. I’m still in!
Suggested accessory: human-powered generators. The Volt can have pedaling stations at each seat.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:26 am
“The first is a battery state of charge estimator, so we can estimate what the state of charge is. That particular piece of intellectual property is so good, other OEMs buy it from us.”
*** *** ***
I wonder just how many OEMs have vehicles like this planned and how many have bought this from GM? It’s good to hear they’re developing their own technology rather than bolting on what they can get from suppliers. This is why we’ve seen hints and I really think that GM is trying to develop their own battery technology.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Great post Lyle.
Sounds like those who live in extra hot or cold climates may have to reside themselves to the fact that they’re going to burn some gas until the battery achieves its operating temperature range. Hopefully not too much, just be prepared for it.
It’s good to see GM is gaining some intellectual property from the Volt. They may gain some first mover advantage by taking the risks on the Volt. I hope they are rewarded well for their investment. The more profits they make on this baby, the more other firms will want to join the fray, like buzzards to a carcass, or miners to a nugget (depending on your perspective).
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:28 am
MDDAVE # 3 says,
So what powers the thermal management system for the people that live in especially cold or hot climates?
———–
I was wondering the same thing. I live in CT and it gets cold here in the winter and hot in the summer.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:34 am
Excellent post, Lyle. Thank you.
I noted the following statement in it “We have intellectual property at GM that we’re particularly proud of. The first is a battery state of charge estimator, so we can estimate what the state of charge is. That particular piece of intellectual property is so good, other OEMs buy it from us.”
So that means two things:
(1) While spun as a positive, GM has now said publicly a fact that is well known in battery engineering, which is that determining the state of charge of a battery at a particular moment is not possible through any direct measurement made at the same time, short of disassembly and chemical analysis of the components. One can estimate (his verb) how much charge there is left from various other things, such as battery voltage, time used, miles traveled, or other factors that normally affect state of charge, each one imperfect and subject to the errors of data obtained over time. These estimators tend to have drastically different outcomes based on very small changes in what is measured, so there remains the possibility of a seriously incorrect estimate, and battery failure.
Normally the most significant estimator is the battery voltage at the same moment, whereas the battery itself is designed to keep the voltage always the same, so one is making an estimate based on an imperfection, which always is hazardous. (It is by such a measurement that my laptop often tells me I have 30 minutes left, and by now I know it will be closer to 5 minutes left.)
[People are particularly confused about the difficulty in knowing state of charge, because they are used to a gas tank, where it is not too hard to directly measure the amount of gas still in the tank. There is no equivalent, for batteries.]
(2) GM has put a lot of work into trying to make a program that makes good estimates. I am glad to hear that and hope that we find that there program for making estimates works well “in the field”, that is, as Volt buyers use it.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:36 am
MDDave #3
Rashiid Amul #33
I’m pretty sure if you live in cold climates that the ICE will be involved with warming the battery with liquid coolant. The only other way would be to use some sort of internal resistance to warm it but that would draw and take time unless the car is plugged in. It will be interesting to see how it all works out. I live in Va. and while our winters aren’t like Alaska or Ct. they can get quite cold, especially overnight.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:44 am
So there are THREE battery “sweet spot ranges”: (1) Fully charged of say 90%-95% to leave room for regen braking. (2) Discharging down to say 15%. (3) ICE charge from 15% to 20% so the battery is not overly discharged and to leave room for grid recharging back to 90% once the volt is plugged in again.
The BMS will be operating AT ALL TIMES to maintain the pack temperature. This is a VERY good idea!
If the Volt is parked in the heat or cold “unplugged” with a depleted pack using electricity for the BMS, it is a good assumption that the ICE turn on occasionally to keep the battery in the 15%-20% depleted “sweet spot” as this is the ONLY way to protect the pack both thermally and from over-discharge.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Bearclaw Says: @4
Great info.
Question. Say the ICE won’t start and I’ve gone past the safe state of charge point. Would I be able to plug a battery or solar charger into a 12 volt receptical and charge it to get a mile or 2 to the next outlet or home?
******************************************************************
As for a solar charger the answer is yes, If you don’t mind waiting two weeks to get it charged. Most people don’t realize that photovoltaic has a long way to go technologically before it becomes feasible.
***********************************************************************
Two weeks might get you a couple of miles under ideal conditions, like:
1. Sunny every day for two weeks
2. Its May, June or July, when the sun is in the sky
3. If you live in the southern US,
If you run out of charge on a cloudy day in November in Boston, you might get to the gas station by Easter.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:46 am
#31 Grizzly
“I wonder just how many OEMs have vehicles like this planned …”
The OEMs may not be automakers. They could be electronics OEMs.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:53 am
An Electric BMS (heat pump + resistance heater) is the ONLY one that makes any sense since GM has said that MANY will NEVER use a drop of gasoline. No gasoline means NO heat from the ICE to heat the pack.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:56 am
“”"It seems to me the battery would act the same as a gas engine as far as range is concerned. If you do jack rabbit starts your range is shorter. If you drive like you have an egg under your foot your range will be longer. The volt system keeps the battery between 40% and 80% state of charge. This has to be how it works. So if you drive conservative you should get more than 40 miles. At least that’s what I think.”"”
I would like to see the comments of a real ICE/motor expert on this, but it is my understanding that for an electric motor, jackrabit starts to not exact the severe energy efficiency penalty that they do with an ICE. What will really deplete your battey is sustained high speed driving, because of air resistance.
Is this correct?
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:57 am
#20 Schmeltz
Actually, at the VoltNation Event in NYC, Bob Lutz mentioned the 50 mile AER when new and 40 mile AER end-of-life, so you are not mistaken in your perception, just that the story from GM keeps changing (and I don’t blame them, they are still testing these battery packs and learning more with time).
Ultimately, 40 miles of AER, regardless of life, seems to be the current specification.
In 2 more years (it’s almost November), we should know a lot more.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:59 am
>> “that’s the intellectual property that I’m generating.”
Whatever happened to being plain-spoken? Executives… geez… *sigh*
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October 30th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Tim wrote:
“”An Electric BMS (heat pump + resistance heater) is the ONLY one that makes any sense since GM has said that MANY will NEVER use a drop of gasoline. No gasoline means NO heat from the ICE to heat the pack.”"
The statement by GM that many will never use gas could mean that the battery can start the car at -20 degrees. Many people live in parts of the US where it never gets that cold. If you consider that first thing in the morning, the battery will be plugged in, you would only need to consider parts of the US where it gets that cold during the day. At that point you are OK for probably 90% of the population, which qualifies as many.
So use to the ICE to warm the battery may be a good solution, if it works well from a cost and performance point of view, because only a small fraction of buyers would need to burn gas.
We certainly want to avoid a solution which adds cost to the Volt for 100% of buyers, when only 10% would ever use it, if the alternative is a cheaper solution which causes the 10% to burn a few ounces of gas on a few of the coldest days of the year.
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October 30th, 2008 at 10:05 am
Mike #42
>> “that’s the intellectual property that I’m generating.”
Whatever happened to being plain-spoken? Executives… geez… *sigh*
———————————————————–
Hey Mike, lighten up. The poor guy is just trying to leverage his synergies while conceptualizing a new socio-technological paradigm.
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October 30th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Finally SOME clarification on the AER. Now if at the end of life the car gets 40 miles then why is ithe end of life? Just kidding but trying to point out that end of life is not truely the end of life of the battery.
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October 30th, 2008 at 10:18 am
OK Mike, #42. Let’ lay this out for you…
Intellectual Property Buyer:
“Brain work good, need food. Have brain food? Good. Me want buy brain food. Brain food good, me buy. Me trade you 2 stones for brain food, O.K.? Good!
Intellectual Property Producer (R&D Lab):
“We have the “brain food” you’re looking for and we’ll be happy sell it to you. 2 stones is a fair price, would you like to trade? O.K., you give us the 2 stones and we’ll give you the “brain food.” Thank you and have a nice day. NEXT in line, please.”
I hope this makes thing a little clearer to the average US public school graduate.
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October 30th, 2008 at 10:19 am
charley497 (#25) has it correct. If you drive “responsibly” you will extend your EV range. No different really than increasing your mpg for a gasoline powered car. If you drive carefully you can increase your miles per gallon. That is what I understood the interview to say.
Good topic, Lyle. Much more positive than yesterday’s. Thanks and keep them coming.
Dave G (#21) asked a question (”Will we be able to jump-start the Volt?”) that keeps popping up. I think it definitely needs an answer. Ask someone at GM, Lyle.
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October 30th, 2008 at 10:23 am
Keep in mind folks that from what I recall in prior posts, the 40 miles AER is based on a “city” driving cycle. I’m still curious what we can expect on a “highway” driving cycle?
The way this GM guy (Bob Kruse) is talking, sounds like they are really sure they can go full life (10 years or 150,000 miles)… so is GM still talking about pricing in a replacement battery pack into the cost of the vehicle???
And it sounds like how they are keeping a consistent 40 mile range over the life of the Volt is probably by switching over to the ICE (generator) after the vehicle has gone 40 miles, even if the state of charge is higher than the low water mark (30%), ie. using less than 50% of the packs capacity… this is how they will stretch it out.
This does kind of beg the question though if they would have been better with, even using the same battery chemistry, to use a 8kwh pack (instead of 16kwh), run it from 99% SOC to 5%, and then plan to replace the pack at the car’s 1/2 life (75,000 miles)… this would have several advantages… 1) the pack could fit without losing the middle seat in the rear, hence sit five; 2) the pack would weigh 1/2 as much and hence the car would be lighter, helping with the range and mpg when the ICE comes on; 3) the replacement packs which will be further down the road should cost less, so even with paying the dealers for the labor to do the swap, overall cost will be less; 4) they could probably produce more vehicles sooner as each vehicle would be getting 1/2 as many cells and I think the battery maker may have limit production ability (?)
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October 30th, 2008 at 10:30 am
#26 GXT
“Why are people still making economic arguments for the Volt? It doesn’t make economic sense (yet). Find another reason to buy one.”
—————–
Absolutely correct. None of us can make an economic justification for the Volt at today’s fuel cost. Even at $4.00 per gallon for gas we can’t. It’s nice to know that you can drive for $.02 to $.04 per mile vs $.12 to $.20 (or whatever cost your vehicle comes out to be), but we need to look to other factors in our decision making. It is there as we have all discussed. Removing us from foreign dependence (either completely or as much as possible). That and helping the environment as much as we can by purchasing a Volt. The environment factor gets a little more sticky because we will be using more electricity that will primarily be made using polluting fuels. Granted that polluting fuel can be controlled much better than 300 million tailpipes, but polluting still. We can reduce the electrical generation pollution by installing wind or solar power generation equipment at home at still more cost.
After all is said and done, the one thing we can all agree on without it costing us an arm and a leg is getting us off as much oil as possible.
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October 30th, 2008 at 10:30 am
It is amazing how much of the EV-1 knowledge base is affecting the Volt (EV-2) design. Even the E-Flex (E-REV) technology seems to be traceable back to the EV-1. It makes one wonder if the Volt would have even been possible if it had not been for the EV-1 program.
Lyle, Thanks for the update. I’m really encouraged!
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October 30th, 2008 at 10:46 am
I understand the thinking behind the 30% low and 80% high battery cycle. GM must (by law) produce a 100,000 mile battery. And if the battery always cycles to 100% (100~30~100~10~100~25~100) then this would result in ever shortening range over time.
The battery will lose some capacity over time. I don’t believe we have a 7000-8000 (cycle to 100%) battery from LG Chem.
I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that GM has seen a small drop in the energy storage capacity of the 30,000 mile test batteries. This may be just 1%. With an expected trend for another 1%-2% decline each 1000 cycles there after.
My concern after reading the many topics and posts here is that the R&D and technology hours are going to push the price of the Volt to over $40,000 per unit. GM has come out and said that the first 20,000 vehicles will sell on the interest & excitement factor.
A more affordable EREV Cruze is close behind (2012?). It’s the smart and profitable thing to do.
Followed by a family hauler (2013?). But no rush on the SUV as the plug-in Vue is very close to being released.
=D~
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October 30th, 2008 at 11:02 am
if they would have been better with, even using the same battery chemistry, to use a 8kwh pack (instead of 16kwh), run it from 99% SOC to 5%, and then plan to replace the pack at the car’s 1/2 life (75,000 miles)…
……………………………………………………….
Based on what I think I learned reading this site, this idea would not work. As I understand it, deep discharges shorten battery life. Current plan is to discharge only down to 30% SOC. If you take a smaller battery, and run it down to 5% SOC every day, it is likely it will not last 75,000 miles or anywhere close.
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October 30th, 2008 at 11:38 am
#30 ThombDbhomb
Why was anyone expecting more than 40 miles range when new. GM has always said 40, harped on changing the design for 40, and steadfastly maintained 40. Why would anyone think that it would get more than 40 when new. Cars have had some form of firmware control since the eighties. Combined with onstar or GPS you may go slightly farther to reach your normal charging point (home?) Other than that why does everyone insist that 40 will not be the firmware controlled range?
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October 30th, 2008 at 11:41 am
#49 N Riley
Absolutely correct. None of us can make an economic justification for the Volt at today’s fuel cost. Even at $4.00 per gallon for gas we can’t. It’s nice to know that you can drive for $.02 to $.04 per mile vs $.12 to $.20 (or whatever cost your vehicle comes out to be), but we need to look to other factors in our decision making. It is there as we have all discussed. Removing us from foreign dependence (either completely or as much as possible). That and helping the environment as much as we can by purchasing a Volt. The environment factor gets a little more sticky because we will be using more electricity that will primarily be made using polluting fuels. Granted that polluting fuel can be controlled much better than 300 million tailpipes, but polluting still. We can reduce the electrical generation pollution by installing wind or solar power generation equipment at home at still more cost.
After all is said and done, the one thing we can all agree on without it costing us an arm and a leg is getting us off as much oil as possible.
———————————
I totally agree. There is alot more to this equation that just personal fiscal justification, alot of the reasons you mentioned…and some others are floating out there too. (Like it is just plain cool and to satisfy some people’s need for ‘eco-smugness’…I confess I fall into that trap myself).
It will be a long time before EVs make sense in a pure fiscal play. I think right now, 90% of all hybrids can’t even justify their own existence/premiums.
A good bulk of all cars sell for reasons other than MPG as the main concern…although it generally does factor itself into the decision at some point I would think.
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October 30th, 2008 at 11:48 am
The high levels of interest in that people are displaying in electrics both pure and hybrid, are in indicator and the transport sector has really changed in the past some years, and for the better too.
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October 30th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
#53 Jeffhre
Yes, GM has steadfastly maintained 40 mile AER. If you are familiar with our historic discussions on this blog, you’d see that we assumed that the battery would degrade over time, like we’ve seen in our battery experiences. So, we asked if 40-mile AER was “beginning of life” or “end of life.” We didn’t consider that it was both. This post is a continuation of our battery life discussion and presents a new line of thought.
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October 30th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I’m going to play devil’s advocate here. I think that it could make economic sense when a million of these have been sold and it has single handedly reduced the cost of oil per barrel, thus reducing the cost of gasoline. These will qualify for a $7,500 tax credit too, don’t forget that. Let’s say the average vehicle this size would cost 14 cents per mile. To some that may sound high, but if you have seen the price of gas nearly doubling over the last 4 years (recession prices not included), you can bet that they will keep going up by 2020 when these cars expected useful life is over. So let’s say it costs 2 cents per mile with electricity. You save $18,000 in fuel costs over that amount of time. You got a $7,500 tax break. So assuming you paid $35,000 for this vehicle, you are really only spending less than 10k for it. Now hopefully this shouldn’t need as many repairs as an average car…you get the idea.
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October 30th, 2008 at 12:17 pm
GM seems to be on the right track, and the Volt will certainly revolutionize the automotive industry. I can’t wait until one is available in Texas. I’ll have my $40K sitting in the bank by then… instead of replacing my wife or my vehicles, we are putting a monthly payment into a savings account so we can pay cash when EREV’s are available.
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October 30th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
#58 lh_newbie
“…instead of replacing my wife or my vehicles…”
Replacing your wife can be expensive. You should make your current wife last until the Volt arrives.
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October 30th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
That doesnt make sense. You are telling me they can make the battery last 10 years with ZERO degredation?
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October 30th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Very interesting. Thanks.
Although I have to confess that it is getting harder and harder to get very excited about these technical details in the face of the very real concerns that GM might not survive to produce the Volt in any meaningful quantities.
I feel like the proverbial guy in the downstairs apartment, trying to get to sleep and waiting for the guy upstairs to drop the other shoe. Will we GTVWOTR before we run out of $$$? Tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode of “As The GM Turns”.
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October 30th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
#57 Chris
I can see and understand your point about economic justification. Although most of us have never expected, prior to the Volt, to use a time line as long as 8 to 10 years. I agree, the longer you keep any vehicle, the easier it is to cost justify it. Keep a Hummer long enough and you could possibly justify it more. Of course, maintenance cost would greatly out weigh most other considerations except cost of fuel. But if you kept it for 35 years you might come out ahead. But, I see your point with the Volt. Good point, I might add.
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October 30th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
#60 voltman
I think they are saying that the battery will degrade, but it wlll be managed so that it will always provide 40-mile AER. As degradation occurs, the system will access more of the battery’s reserve.
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October 30th, 2008 at 1:01 pm
#61 Noel Park
No one knows if GM will survive or if they will produce the Volt. We just have to go on faith, to some extent, and past history for some more. GM has said they are committed to getting the Volt out. So, I believe them. Plus, I just don’t see GM going out of business. So, if GM does not go out of business, I must assume they will be producing vehicles for sale. If they are producing vehicles for sale, then why not the Volt, since it it the best horse in their stable capable of being an instant winner. They do have some other thorough-breeds in their stable and they are planning to add more, although delaying the Cruze could be problematic.
Bottom line – Keep the faith and trust in GM and the government, if it is necessary to involve them, to work out a plan to keep them going along strong enough to keep on track.
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October 30th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
#63 ThombDbhomb
That is my take on this matter, also.
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October 30th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Did I just say in my post #64 to “trust in GM”? I know how that may sound to some of the skeptics here, but what else can we do? We have “trusted” GM for a century in one way or another. Especially going 75 MPH down the highway. That’s certainly one way to trust they have built a vehicle that won’t come apart at highway speeds and spill your life force all over the byways. So, yeah, trust in GM. I did say it and I stick to it.
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October 30th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
#62 N Riley:
We have had our Impala 13 years last June. It runs fine. Maintenance costs have been minimal. I am totally confident that it will give us at least 5 more years of very reliable service. We have had our S-10 8 years last March. It has 212K miles on it, runs fine, and averages 25 mpg combined. So those kinds of time horizons are very feasible with modern cars, IMHO.
I am not about to get rid of perfectly servicable, long since paid for, cars until somebody comes up with something I absolutely cannot resist. The Volt would be one such. The Aveo, Cobalt and Malibu are not. The Cruze seems to be pushed off into the future. So I guess that we will just keep driving what we have until the Volt becomes available. Or until it becomes obvious that it never will, at which time we will look for Plan B.
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October 30th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
#64 N Riley:
Never doubt that I devoutly hope that you are right.
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October 30th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
#68 Noel Park
Of course I am right. I’m always right. I drink a lot of cool-aid also, as Bill O’Reilly would say.
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October 30th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Guessing we have the upcoming election (rather than our golden anniversary) to thank for finally starting to seei Alaska being mentioned in posts dealing with issues affecting “the United States”.
In any event, while I won’t argue that it does in fact get cold up here, I also know of more than one family from certain north-eastern and north/mid-western states that have moved to areas in/around Anchorage “just to get warm”; even if only relatively so….
But regardless of who gets to claim the “coldest place” title, I believe most all of us who watch water freeze every year have learned how to make a variety of consumer products – most of which were designed primarily for warmer climates – to work well enough in ours.
As I write this, the cars on my street are either sitting in heated garages or are “plugged in” to keep engines and trannies immediately usable. In colder areas electrical outlets are sometimes provided by the places a person might travel to during the day.
I’m not expecting to see Volt “Tribrids” up here anytime soon, due primarily to our small car market and the resultant lack of trained EV service techs, but when they do finally arrive we will use them during summers until we figure out how to keep them warm in winter, just as we do now with gas-powered Chevy’s, Cessna’s, snow machines, etc.
So far as using solar to help recharge the Volt, as long as we are talking photon (and not radiant energy) then cold, clear climates like Alaska’s may actually have the edge. That said, the best designs we have seen so far use carports covered with flat panels rather than trying to put photo cells on the vehicles themselves.
The added weight, cost and complexity of custom, on-board cells makes it very difficult to justify their use. That, plus carport-based systems make even more sense when used to power hydrogen generators. This will become more important when the auxiliary power plant on the Volt expands from gasoline to include hydrogen, whether used in a fuel cell or in a hydrogen ICE, a la BMW.
All that said, the beauty of GM’s entry into the Tribrid market clearly overshadows any teething problems those of us living in cold climes might experience. Economics aside, the air-quality advantages are routinely under emphasized (as are the road/fuel tax savings, even if only temporary!). Also, any reduction in dependence on foreign oil use gives me reason for (real) hope, and the fact that it is our very own GM bringing this product to market simply makes me proud all over again to have a rag-top Gran Sport sitting out the garage, just as the first Volts in Alaska are likely to do.
-Tomo
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October 30th, 2008 at 2:21 pm
ThombDbhomb #38
“The OEMs may not be automakers. They could be electronics OEMs.”
*** *** ***
Possibly, but I don’t see when electronics OEMs would need this. The batt. level display in most electronics is good enough, after all you’re not going to get stranded by your IPOD.
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October 30th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Schmeltz #20
BillR #41
Lutz was also talking about a 7 second 0-60 when no one else at GM gave anything under 8 seconds. He could very well be right about the 50 mi new vehicle AER, but it seems that of late no one wants to raise expectations. Promise little and deliver more.
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October 30th, 2008 at 2:31 pm
The display has 82F. Does anyone know if that is outside temp or battery temp?
R/Jim
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October 30th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
#73 VaBchJim wrote
The display has 82F. Does anyone know if that is outside temp or battery temp?
————————-
I don’t think you can take anything you see on those screens as set in stone. It was just something shiney to show people at the unveiling.
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October 30th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
#30
ThombDbhomb Says:
“Suggested accessory: human-powered generators. The Volt can have pedaling stations at each seat.”
Sounds like a great idea…Yabba Dabba Doo!
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October 30th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
#66 N Riley
You also said, “Keep the faith and trust in…the government.”
I that would get a reaction.
#71 Grizzly
“The batt. level display in most electronics is good enough…”
Apparently, not good enough for RB, who said (in #34) “my laptop often tells me I have 30 minutes left, and by now I know it will be closer to 5 minutes left”
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October 30th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
#76 ThombDbhomb
If my comment was interpreted as me believing I can trust the government, then I did not make myself very clear. I do not trust the government these days. Have not for many, many years. Its not a Republican or Democrat problem, either. I don’t trust any politician. Period. Not only that but I don’t trust anyone who works for a politician.
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October 30th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
#73 VaBchJim asks “The display has 82F. Does anyone know if that is outside temp or battery temp?”
====================================
Most likely the outside temperature. We have no indication that “engineering” type numbers are going to be displayed.
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October 30th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
#76 ThomDbomb notes
“#71 Grizzly
“The batt. level display in most electronics is good enough…”
Apparently, not good enough for RB, who said (in #34) “my laptop often tells me I have 30 minutes left, and by now I know it will be closer to 5 minutes left”
============================================
It’s true that I certainly wish that my laptop’s indicator was more accurate. At the same time, I live with it with only occasional stress.
In a Volt I suppose the metering error will mean that sometimes the ICE will come on before it tells me it will do so, so I suppose I’ll then wish the Volt’s indicator was more accurate, too. But I’ll live with it and realize that it is good that the Volt is an E-REV rather than a BEV.
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October 30th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
If the display image is accurate to the Volt’s design intent, then I respectfully request they consider displaying the numerical value of the percentage of charge remaining to the visual battery bar representation unless the graphic is showing battery bars as a percentage of usable charge and not total charge.
I really wish the following questions was asked of Mr. Kruse:
- “So, if you plan a hard limit of 40 miles to keep someone from prematurely wearing out the battery what do you anticipate the useable percentage of total capacity to be at the beginning of life and EOL?”
-”Given the 40 mile limit for life, it sounds like those driving less than 40 miles per day will be penalized. Say someone drives less than 20 miles on most days but drives 40+ miles a decent number of days (15 or so). Won’t they be losing significantly more to the calendar then those driving close to 40 miles per day? Would using 70% of battery capacity 20 times a year and only using less than 30% the rest of the year shorten life?
There have been a lot of reasons people have given for saying they don’t or wouldn’t want a Volt. This is the first serious problem I see for me. I definitely want a plug in my next vehicle but I also want to be able to use the battery as I see fit (within safety restrictions of course). I will not be happy about paying a LOT of money for a battery that will have a significant amount of it’s total lifetime KWh lost to the calendar that could have otherwise been used had I been allowed to access it. If there are choices that will allow me to take better advantage of the battery, I will probably take one of them.
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
40 miles AER, but they refuse to guesstimate highway AER. I think 25-30 miles AER highway will be optimistic.
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:16 pm
MDDave #3
People in colder climates use plug in battery warmers and internal car heaters now that keep the battery slightly warm when not in use. Of course overcoming frozen tires and wheel bearings require a lot of juice unless the Volt is stored in a garage with some heat. For these reasons the draw on the battery would be more and wheel slippage doesn’t help.
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
Speaking of batteries,
Ever wonder why Toyota seems so reluctant to enter the PHEV market?
The NiMH Battery Industry Pelican Brief… Of A Sort
http://www.evworld.com/blogs/index.cfm?page=blogentry&authorid=51&blogid=104
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October 30th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Nice that they plan for consistency of battery live. Too bad the all electric range isn’t 80 instead of 40 though.
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October 30th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Let’s cut right to the muscle and talk sense. The entire world needs to be freed from the ankle irons of big oil. Exxon/Mobil took in a record profit of $14.8 billion for the quarter.
Question> How is it possible that Exxon/Mobil can rake this huge over-charge on us?
Answer> It’s because want want them to.
Our purchasing choices speak loud and clear. Yes, it’s our fault for allowing this otherwise unethical quarterly event to occur over and over again.
Don’t be put to sleep with $2 a gallon gasoline ($60 a barrel).
This pricing will continue only to the end of 2009. The world economy will be doing much better then with a chance the wars will have ended.
Oil will rise and stabilize at $90 a barrel. OPEC has all but announced this directly. OPEC is not shy about saying what they can (and will) do.
We need an affordable EREV for every driving family on Earth.
We need World governments to back the people on this. Such as Denmark with their “no tax on EV purchase” policy. Or the new “7500 tax credit” approved by the U.S. Congress.
The bells n’ whistles heavy Volt isn’t going to do the job. The Volt will be a popular car, just not the people’s car. Not at $40,000.
A plain Jane Cruze EREV will be this car. At $25,000 with a government direct $5000 tax credit for a down payment up front. Followed by a GMAC 4 year loan at a 1.9% interest rate .
This is our answer. And the key to removing our big oil leg irons.
=D~
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October 30th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
by the way GM, I DON’T CARE WHAT THE PRICE OF GAS FALLS TO I DON’T WANT TO HAVE TO USE IT ANYMORE, AND SUPORT
THOSE CARTELS IN THIER ANTIAMERICAN (BELIEFS)
EARLY ADOPTER STANDING BY, TWO PLEASE, THANKS
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October 30th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
#36
Tim Says:
“If the Volt is parked in the heat or cold “unplugged” with a depleted pack using electricity for the BMS, it is a good assumption that the ICE turn on occasionally to keep the battery in the 15%-20% depleted “sweet spot” as this is the ONLY way to protect the pack both thermally and from over-discharge.”
I highly doubt it. I would guess that under no circumstances would the ICE turn on when the car is not in motion. The main reason is safety. Imagine you get home, close the garage door, and the ICE is running, or starts up. Not going to happen. No key, scratch that, if the car is not in drive, the no ICE.
Just me 2 cents
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October 30th, 2008 at 8:47 pm
plese plese plese help us keep our freedom and do not vote for oboama.
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October 30th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
The people’s car…
http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/Cruze_EREV.jpg
…yes we can?
=D~
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October 30th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Dave K., Exxon has no control over the price of a barrel of oil. ALL of the big oil companies only control %10 of the worlds reserves with the rest in the hands of nations. They make a small % profit on their product but when the product triples in price their they triple their profits. This last quarter saw very high oil prices and therefor they had very high profit.
I don’t want to give my money to Exxon and I especially don’t want to give it to terrorist states. Exxon is merely delivering a product and if we all move to EREV’s, it will be the electric companies that turn into the next Exxon with huge profits. The main difference being that the electricity is generated at home (hopefully).
I don’t personally think Exxon had anything to do with the run up on gas prices and I don’t think they should be penalized (taxed more) because they make a lot of money. I however can’t wait for the day I can fill my car up with solar panels from my roof and not see a gas nor electric bill again. I won’t loose much sleep if Exxon goes under do to lack of demand for their product.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
hi Gsned57 #90,
“Dave K., Exxon has no control over the price of a barrel of oil….They make a small % profit on their product…I don’t personally think Exxon had anything to do with the run up on gas prices.”
_______________________________________
My #85 post illuminates the reality of the ‘Oil Giant’ over ‘the little guy’ crush cycle. I don’t have a problem buying an occasional Super Gulp from an Exxon/Mobil station. I just don’t want to buy their pump gas.
If it looks like a fish. Has scales like a fish. And smells like a fish. It’s probably a fish.
http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/EVOS_oil.JPG
=D~
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:19 pm
The picture, which no doubt may have no connection to reality, shows the battery at approximately 50% charge with 27 miles of range remaining. Also appears to have the mystery “leaf” feature turned on. Maybe Lyle can get to the bottom of the ‘leaf’ in his next exclusive interview.
PS. Dave K – My RDS stock bet is turning out better than GM so far, but holding out hope for GM one day.
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
hi D Lo #92,
Best of luck on your stock picks. I am currently bottom feeding on recycling stocks (car crushing) , battery manufactures (scooters/cell phones), cancer drug and treatment providers (baby boomers needs).
I knew GM would get a decent pop on the bail-out loan news. Just didn’t have the cash on hand to hop on. One must proceed with caution for a few more quarters. GM will survive. I just hope GM remains as “GM” and not a hybrid/variant of some kind. My next car will have a bow tie and an extension cord.
My apologizes to all who favor a more on topic thread. It’s been a rough week and I needed to unload on our beloved foreign oil factor. BBL
=D~
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October 30th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Interesting, the battery will have a defined performance parameter. So we will see no change in the battery’s performance till its “End of life”. I guess that would make it easier to identify a “bad” battery, although I am sure dealer software would make a final determination.
Out of curiosity I was wonder if there is an ICE button, or maybe an ICE detent in the throttle. It would be some way to manually kick in the ICE to prolong battery life. Something like “Turbo Boost” on a video game. I have a big long hill near my home, it would be fun to be able to kick in the ICE once and a while.
We have a friend that stores her Prius in our barn for the winter. So I have to ask, would a Volt be harmed by leaving it unplugged when it is cold? Or besides charging the battery, would a Volt use excess energy to stay ready for operation. I saw some talk about timers for the charge. Would they also be used to prepare the car to run? Also somebody mentioned that the Tesla requires a large amount of energy to be in “Standby” mode. Some good questions, I am sure the good folks at GM will figure them out.
Red HHR (Dropping to third and revving to 4000 rpm, Whaahoo)
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October 30th, 2008 at 10:02 pm
The oil problem is in our hands the same as the drug problem on the boarder in Mexico, it’s up to us to stop using them and the problem goes away
NO PLUG NO DRUGS NO SALE NO WAY =D——-
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October 30th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
I wonder if they are going to use a wear leveling system similar to Solid State distk drives. That would make the most sense and would cause the pack to run at maximum efficiency until the day it dies. At which time it will fail all at once.
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October 31st, 2008 at 12:11 am
Lyle, you can see that we are all hungary for more technical info like this! Next time you speak to this guy, find out if it’s 40 miles AER no matter what … city, highway, mixed, Pike’s Peak …
OK, maybe not Pike’s Peak. That would be asking too much.
“Easy” to do 40 every time. Just provide more than enough battery storage to:
1. cover off warranty related battery aging, and
2. 40 miles AER no matter what (almost), and
3. start the meter running when the batteries are full,
and then turn on the ICE at 40 miles every time, or some minimum SOC whichever comes first. Presumably the design would comfortably hit 40 miles first most times under a wide variety of driving conditions.
Per #21, the CDP just slowly creeps down over the life of the car to some minimum. After that minimum is reached, say after 3650 full charge cycles, it would be held, and the 40 mile AER number will start to creep down.
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October 31st, 2008 at 6:48 am
#81 JEC on city/hwy mileage
==============================
Agree generally.
Maybe half as much AER at 60 mph than at 30 mph.
I’m thinking (like I think that aerodynamic drag forces may be equal to all other drag forces (such as rolling resistance) at 30 mph, and the aerodynamic drag increasing by a factor of four between 30 and 60 mph. Things are of course complicated by the different start/stop patterns between city and hwy, but presumably the regenerative braking diminishes that aspect.
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October 31st, 2008 at 6:59 am
Sorry for the garble in the previous post #98. The first part of the first sentence “I’m thinking (like ” should not be there.
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October 31st, 2008 at 9:24 am
RB #79
“But I’ll live with it and realize that it is good that the Volt is an E-REV rather than a BEV.”
*** *** ***
Yes, you have two energy sources in the Volt. Your current car has only 1 unless it’s a hybrid like the Prius. I’m just not sure why people are always looking for a safety net against their own miscalculations and poor judgment. How difficult is it to keep a gallon of gas in the tank which will give you 50 miles, or enough to get to almost any gas station?
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October 31st, 2008 at 1:20 pm
#100 Grizzly
Agreed. In fact I think I’ll splurge and put in two gallons.
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October 31st, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Statik said:
“Good article Lyle,
It would be interesting to understand the inner workings of how exactly it gives out the same approximate range from beginning to end. I guess that means it expands pack usage over time, but I wonder if this expansion comes from data on charge cycles, linear usage or real-world practical performance metrics
It would seem they are really trying to optimize the life of this battery, I wonder if that is out of a true desire for efficiency or a serious concern about the viability of the pack over time.
I will also note this statement with a little concern, “So that fact whether its 38.2 miles or 40.2 miles when you’re out of electric range….” is the first time I have ever heard any number but 40 from GM, and we are talking potentially on the very first use.
It sounds like my Volt out of the box might not be getting 40 miles.”
——————————————————–
I agree, another 5 star article from Lyle. He is so good at cutting thru the BS and getting good info straight from the original source.
I’m just guessing (but I’m pretty sure about this guess) that GM will program the Battery Controller so that you always get enough energy required to drive 40 miles *on the EPA prescribed drive cycle* (say 8 kWh, or whatever the exact figure is). The battery could give more than that when new, but not giving more energy extends the battery life. And it is very important to get maximum battery life!
Now, if you drive exactly like the EPA, you get 40 miles. If you drive more carefully, you can go more miles on the allocated kWh of energy. If you drive like I do, it takes more energy to go 40 miles, so the engine will kick on before I get 40 mi.
BTY, I really enjoy reading your posts here at GM-VOLT.
GSP
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November 3rd, 2008 at 11:02 am
#7
“There will be a hack for this in short order. Which means that buying a used volt will be a very serious risk”
I am sure that a dealer or a repair shop will be more than willing to test your batteries to make sure they are in good shape before you buy, just as they do today for a used car.
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November 6th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
–I am sure that a dealer or a repair shop will be more than willing to test your batteries to make sure they are in good shape before you buy, just as they do today for a used car.—
Very hard to impossible to test a lithium battery for remaining life.. it usually either works or does not, it may be on the last 20% of remaining cycles and you will not know it. Hopefully GM will make the pack tamper proof.
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