AND 
Mini to Lease 500 Electric Cars in US in 2009
BMW’s Mini division has announced that they would be launching a test fleet of 500 electric Mini (Mini E) cars in 2009. The cars will be produced in 2008, and vehicles will be available for lease to “select” private and corporate customers in NY, NJ, and CA. Apparently the one-year lease will be about $850 per month, and could be renewable.
Mini says:
Putting some 500 cars on the road under real daily traffic conditions will make it possible to gain widely applicable hands-on experience. Evaluating these findings will generate valuable know-how, which will be factored into the engineering of mass-produced vehicles.
The vehicle winds up as a 2-seater because the rear seat has been removed to make room for the lithium-ion battery pack.
The car uses a 150 kw motor that will allow it to accelerate from 0 to 60 in 8.5 seconds with a top speed of 95 mph.
The battery pack will have 35 kwh of maximum capacity, a range of 150 miles, and be capable of charging in 2-1/2 hours using a special charger that must be installed in the driver’s home. I checked in with BMW who would not say who the battery is being made by, but it will contain a massive 5,088 cells grouped into 48 modules.
The car will be officially unveiled at the LA Auto Show on November 19th, at which time more information will be made available, including media test drives.
If you live in NY, NJ, or CA, and are so-inspired you can sign up to test drive one here.
82 Responses to “Mini to Lease 500 Electric Cars in US in 2009”
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October 21st, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Over 5000 cells doesn’t not sound like a good idea. Some of them are bound to go bad prematurely.
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October 21st, 2008 at 6:42 pm
what a crock
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October 21st, 2008 at 6:43 pm
$850/month??? Sorry. I might be an early adopter, but not that early!
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October 21st, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Come to think of it, put 500 Volts out there right now at $850/month and I’ll do it. 2 seat Mini, no way. 4 seat 4 door Volt, way.
Come on GM, I double dawg dare ya.
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October 21st, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Does $850/mo include insurance? Nobody is going to insure these things since they are not a real production vehicle. State Farm, Progressive, or esurance will just laugh at you.
Might not be too bad a deal if $850 is all inclusive with taxes, insurance and the fast charger installed in your garage.
But if they don’t have an option to buy at the end of the lease, they have robbed me of one of the intrinsic values of a lease. They have robbed me of the ability to lock in the future purchase price of the car as a used vehicle when the lease ends.
I wouldn’t sign a lease like that on any other car. I’m not sure I’d do that for a Mini E either. I would rather buy it outright.
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October 21st, 2008 at 6:50 pm
#1 joe
“Over 5000 cells doesn’t not sound like a good idea. Some of them are bound to go bad prematurely.”
That is actually a benefit of this type of battery pack. When one cell goes bad, the other 4999 keep on going as if nothing happened.
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October 21st, 2008 at 6:53 pm
What’s the point? Ohhhh! Having some dumbA$$ pay your R&D expenses. I get it.
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October 21st, 2008 at 6:54 pm
GM could learn something here. Why not get 500 of these on the road for hands-on experience. Why waste all that time testing and then do recalls?
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October 21st, 2008 at 7:00 pm
@2,
That’s global warming. ~Lutz
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October 21st, 2008 at 7:02 pm
if GM let “random guy” do the testing for one, and it burnt to the ground all hell would break loose! Remember the Fiero? great car actually.. but you probably only remember the few with the iron duke 4 that had one of the batch of bad connecting rods. Further, you probably think they BURST INTO FLAMES WILE DRIVING, when the rod really just poked a hole in the block, got oil on the exhaust that while a while later started a small fire.
I applaud GM for begin smart enough to not release a crap product here. Since this is the FIRST of it’s like, if it’s crap it’ll stain the whole line. better you be PO’d that it took so long but love the car than you sue them cause it burnt to the ground with you in it.
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October 21st, 2008 at 7:03 pm
It is wonderful news. Real electric cars, capable of normal speeds and significant range, in the hands of real drivers.
It will take some adventurous people to lease them, but no doubt they are out there and will have a good time.
For GM and other brands it is an advantage not to have to be first. But one doesn’t want to fall very far behind, so it is also a motivator, which is great.
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October 21st, 2008 at 7:05 pm
“Charging in 2 1/2 hours using a special charger…”
=======================================
Anyone have more details on this? It’s a neat trick.
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October 21st, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Reminds me of the EV1! There are only so many available, you can only get them in select areas and there are only leasing them for a year. The only difference I say is the chance of extending the lease, that is if BMW/Mini decides not to crush them.
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October 21st, 2008 at 7:51 pm
So many negatives for a cool new vehicle. Typically the $850/month would include maintenance and maybe collision insurance too. Many good stats for this car. 150 mile range. 2.5 hour charge time. 95 mph top speed. Not a Tesla Roadster but it sells for $100,000. Not for everyone but still a good start toward a real electric car!
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October 21st, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Sounds like BMW is about 10 years behind. They are just now thinking about doing what GM did with the EV1 years ago.
2 seater, all electric, lease only, only 500. Wow maybe in about 10 years they will think about a gas extender.
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October 21st, 2008 at 8:00 pm
This only shows that GM is not the only game in town and that they will have plenty of competition in the electric car field. Competition is a good thing, for the consumer because it will drive the prices down. It will also give everyone a choice! So GM better get it right, especially pricing, since they already blew the styling.
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October 21st, 2008 at 8:06 pm
There is a comprehensive report on these cars on EVWorld . com
The link to this interesting read is .
http://www.evworld.com/news.cfm?newsid=19471
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October 21st, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Even has the picture of a plug on the roof.
Must have been reading NPNS
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October 21st, 2008 at 8:18 pm
Please get one Lyle and tell us about it
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October 21st, 2008 at 8:32 pm
Yes, we in the world of electric cars love leases… not like we’ve never been burned on them or anything!
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October 21st, 2008 at 8:40 pm
#20 Brad Horton — on leases and EVs
===================================
One will have to read the lease carefully and not expect anything more.
At the same time, a lease may be a good plan for this moment. Normally a purchase is much better, but this is a new kind of car. Here and now the risk is lower with a lease than with a purchase, and for such a new kind of car it may be wise to limit one’s risk.
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October 21st, 2008 at 8:40 pm
Dang Lyle, you are fast! i just signed up for the “option” of a test drive.
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October 21st, 2008 at 8:55 pm
$850 per month is equivalent to what purchase price? Zero interest 5 year loan would be over $50,000. A 2 1/2 hour recharge will mean 220 Volts and at least 60 amps. One big mother of a circuit.
Sounds like a short lifespan battery pack at those recharge rates.
Leasing? Sounds like the EV-1/Honda EV/ Toyota Rav4EV all over again. Battery pack over $35,000? Totally and completely impractical. Which means it’s perfect for Tom Hanks, who will recommend it to his buddies, no doubt. Now why do you suppose that BMW is bulding this impractical vehicle? How about for the same reason all these others (except Honda) are doing the same thing – they can’t development the far more practical and effective plug-in hybrid anytime soon, so they throw together a conversion and toss it to the press. What’s the purpose? Anything other than PR? Here we have what people claimed the Volt was – vaporware, at least in terms of productive likelihood. Perhaps BMW is praying for EEStor success. In that case they would be well-positioned. What they have here and now is nothing. Totally useless.
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October 21st, 2008 at 9:01 pm
While the rumoUred $850 month does seem a little steep, this is unlike the EV-1 or leasing another vehicle. Mini is making no quams about what it is…IT IS A TEST CAR. It is not a production vehicle, (even though 500 sounds very high, Tesla could only dream this dream), it is not in their vehicle lineup, they aren’t running ‘high profile conceptual’ commercials for it during the Olympics, lol.
Basically, you give them $10,000 (and fit their narrow qualification bandwidth) and you get to be first on your block with a electric car for awhile.
Seems like a decent tradeoff to me.
FYI, a Mini Cooper S, basic trim, is advertised as $2,500, $269/mth for 24 months (its shortest term available)…thats about $6,000 cost to carry the first 12 months/$500/month (assuming the $2,500 deposit is a ‘roll-off the lot’ depreciation number…that you’d probably still have to pony up if you wanted a 1 year lease)
$4,000 premium on it (EV components and loss of some seating), less maybe $1,500 saved in electric over gas usage, $2,500ish would be your loss (comparitively speaking)….I think Mini will have no trouble finding takers.
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October 21st, 2008 at 9:02 pm
Dave B #8
Sounds like a novel idea GM could be talked into? Think back to 1991 (I’m not the 1st to notice the similarities). Limited range below 150 miles, very limited production, very expensive but innovate electric two seater, only available for lease. BMW’s EV-1
Still sounds like a PR nightmare that GM wants to relive? Better think of a better tactic than that, if you want to see Volts before late 2010.
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October 21st, 2008 at 9:12 pm
#12 RB
“Charging in 2 1/2 hours using a special charger…”
Anyone have more details on this? It’s a neat trick.
————————————–
Indeed, a 35kWh pack…2.5 hour charge, thats going to be a battery stinger, have to figure a usable pack portion of say 27-28kWh?
So figure on a charge box-220 V, 80A unit. Going to have to pay someone to get that installed in your garage, hehe.
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October 21st, 2008 at 9:13 pm
What’s with all this ‘LEASE ONLY’ crap for Electric Vehicles?
People want to BUY them, NOT lease.
Idiots, pure and simple.
This ONE thing gives BMW a loophole to recall the Mini-EV’s, only to crush them, when they know DAMNED well that if they were to SELL the electric vehicles, they would make a ton of money, while anything that used gas, sat in the lot collecting dust.
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October 21st, 2008 at 9:18 pm
As FYI, I would not count on getting your hands on one of these if you happen to live in these area. BMW/Mini seems to go to great lengths to use the words commerical and fleet before ‘private customers’
I would also assume that ‘private customers’ would lean more to famous/important customers…I’m sure there will be some average Joes, but not alot…and those they would want to keep close to home. I would conservatively guesstimate (its a word…at least to me) the ‘average joe’ quantity at two dozen.
Look for the PR rollout in California and followup ‘important people’ in NY, but the bulk to be fleet/corporate leased close to home in BMW North America’s HQ area…New Jersey.
/ye olde ’special requirements’ of the dealerships get you everytime
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October 21st, 2008 at 9:28 pm
I’d rather move to LA and lease a Honda FCX Clarity for $600 a month.
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October 21st, 2008 at 9:31 pm
hi Mark # 27,
Don’t DRE me bro!
I agree. Sorry, this cowboy won’t be leasing any vehicles. It’s pink slip or nothing. There is always going to be the EV motorcycle option.
Please listen manufacturers…your pissin’ in the wind on this lease BS.
=D~
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October 21st, 2008 at 9:41 pm
DONT TRUST BMW!!! AFTER THE LEASES ARE UP THEY’RE ALL GOING TO BE CRUSHED!!!
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October 21st, 2008 at 10:00 pm
What a bunch of crap…and it’s only a two seater.
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October 21st, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Isn’t this just an EV1 with lithium ion batteries. That German engineering is really something.
Range Anxiety. Range Anxiety. Range Anxiety.
I don’t foresee mass adoption of all electric anytime soon. Not until rapid recharge/replenishment becomes feasible and deployed.
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October 21st, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Lease a two-seater? No Thanks! I’ll wait for the Volt. That’s a REAL car. GO GM! GO VOLT!
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October 21st, 2008 at 10:10 pm
Pure electric without a range extender – I’m not interested.
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October 21st, 2008 at 10:28 pm
BMW, The 1st real EV in America? “Shame on you GM” I know it’s not the actual first EV but there’s nothing else out there, the only way GM can save face if they have one is to put out 501 Volts by tomorrow morning. I don’t believe GM is waiting for batteries and retooling and any of the things they say their waiting for, why aren’t they first, we need them to be first, American made American EV in
America
NO PLUG, NO SALE, MADE IN GERMANY
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October 21st, 2008 at 10:33 pm
There’s already an electric Mini, not quite as fast but it’s NOT a lease!: http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/products/cars/flash
Performance
Speed: 80+ mph Acceleration:
0-60 mph in 9 seconds
Range: 100 – 120 miles
Charge Time: 6 hours (110-120V or 220-240V)
Cycle Life: 2500+ full charges
LCD Touch Screen: Vehicle operations monitor – miles remaining, power consumption, each cells’ charge level, battery temperature, drive time, distance traveled, and average speed.
Powertrain
Electric Motor: 3 phase, brushless A/C motor – 78 kW peak (105 hp) Batteries: 10 (550 lbs / 250 kg) maintenance-free lithium ion packs Charger: Onboard 110 VAC or 220 VAC input Battery Management System: Proprietary HT design Chassis
Brakes: Optional 4 wheel ABS Suspension: Strut front independent with stabilizer bar and coil springs. Multi-link rear suspension independent with coil springs. Steering: Rack and pinion Tires (Front): 195/55R16 87H Tires (Rear): 195/55R16 87H
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October 21st, 2008 at 10:46 pm
statik, yea, reading the EVWorld article (press release) it says charging consumes 28kwh so yea, 28kwh usable, up to 35kwh raw capacity
compare to Volt, 8kwh usable out of a 16kwh raw capacity. it’s roughly the same miles/kwh…. assuming city as we now know Volt’s 40 miles/charge is city, not highway. Ie. Volt 40 miles per 8kwh is 5 miles/kwh. This MiniEV gets 150 miles per 28kwh which is 5.35 miles/kwh… a little better, but the MiniEV is also only a 2 seater (though is pretty heavy at a curb weight of 3,330 pounds!).
Sounds like they are using off the shelf mass produced cells just like Tesla is with their Roadster. I’m sure this is just for this “test” edition… if they ever went into production, then I see them going the GM route of custom packs with far fewer cells as the extra weight of individual cells (each with their own casing) and everything else to make them work as a pack is just too much weight (and volume too probably).
$850/month is steep…. but for those who drive 100+ miles/day, such as maybe a courier in NYC, that’s over 36,000 miles/year of gas free driving…. that could be a significant savings even if gas prices don’t go back up for a couple of years (if gas goes to $1 a gallon however that could be another story).
There is a place for this test vehicle, and a place for the Volt, and all the others.
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October 21st, 2008 at 10:53 pm
#37 Dude
There are a few around the world, but that’s not made in America and made now and here now.
NO PLUG NO SALE MADE EVERYWHERE BUT HERE
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October 21st, 2008 at 11:10 pm
If BMW thinks 7 KWH is enough to reserve, Volt might consider using 9 KWH and reserving 7. That would make that “up to 40 miles AER” more up to it.
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October 21st, 2008 at 11:10 pm
What’s this big deal with made in america? Nothing’s made in america. Popopen the main computer and sensors in any of the big 3 auto, you’ll find Sanyo, Samsung, Panasonic and even Nippon/Denso. US aut mfgrs produce garbase bradley neighborhood SUV tanks.The Detroit 3 ar IDIOTS. Here we have them crying about needing moneyto retool, on the other hand we have comapnies like http://www.hybridtechnologies.com AND http://www.blackbayev.com AND http://www.lionev.com/Trucks.html.
ALL sitting here under the big 3’s nose conveting the big 3 products and they ar STILL less expensive than the big 3’s EV they produce.
o yes, there are American made ad yes if the big 3 bought the mentioned companies and used their technology and adopted and improved everything to warrant the work then guess what, they just got re-tooled! My bill for the rtool process is $50BILLIN please!
The “American” company is toooo stupid to do that. The only american company smart enough to take a companies idea and buy it outright is MICROSOFT!
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October 21st, 2008 at 11:35 pm
I guess I was just dreaming, thought maybe we could get back to made in America with the Volt
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October 21st, 2008 at 11:43 pm
noel park #4
“Come on GM, I double dawg dare ya.”
*** *** ***
Are you willing to stick your tongue to a frozen pole??
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October 21st, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Casey, I can only hope Chevy Volt makes it big. I have been in the mfgr business for 12 years. The only US Auto I think will “Ride the Tide” is Chevy. Their really BIG mistake though is NOT offering a stripped down version of the Volt then offering upgrades. OK so you now want a hybrid EV, you don’t need a 10 speaker system (google it, they have issues), you don’t need power windows (remember the hand crank?), you don’t need power locks (HELLO! You have hands and if on a date gentelmen open the doors for the ladies) , and you don’t need a power moon roof (moonroof=engineered eventual leak/hole in the roof.).
When buying a cat of this calibur, I think necesity outweighs desires. A good company to look out for that is a 100% production EV is the Th!nk City. Expected in the US in 2009, one year before the Volt. Meets the stripped down criteria. The good part is they willbe manufacturing this here in the US in 2010 but importing for the first year.
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October 21st, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Frank B # 16
“This only shows that GM is not the only game in town and that they will have plenty of competition in the electric car field.”
*** *** ***
Probably not in 2011, but that remains to be seen. What’s good about all this is that car makers are serious about upping the ante on EVs despite the tremendous OIL LOBBY.
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October 21st, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Dude, Well said, I’m retired, but on the list and waiting ==go Volt==
NO PLUG, NO SALE, NO WAY, =D—–$00.00
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October 21st, 2008 at 11:55 pm
The US market needs a culture change. We need to realize that we don’t need 4500lbs of iron to move us from one place to another or always have tha capability to go 300miles at any given time. The EV’s should be our primary cars, commute, drop kids at school, crocery shop, stop off at Hooter for chicken wings, go home and our bradley M1 Tank SUV should be our drive to our vaction at Disneyland car.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 12:05 am
i do not worship the concept of global warimg itsu hoks
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October 22nd, 2008 at 12:25 am
I am resigned to the fact that EV’s will be mere status symbols to limousine liberals who drive them to their private jets, rather than practical vehicles that can change the world anytime soon.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 12:41 am
If this car contains 5000 cells, then they’re probably the old laptop type battery chemistry that can catch on fire. Hope they’ve engineered some good thermal management into their packs (like Tesla) to make that scenario unlikely.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 12:47 am
#27 Mark
What’s with all this ‘LEASE ONLY’ crap for Electric Vehicles?
People want to BUY them, NOT lease.
Idiots, pure and simple.
This ONE thing gives BMW a loophole to recall the Mini-EV’s, only to crush them, when they know DAMNED well that if they were to SELL the electric vehicles, they would make a ton of money, while anything that used gas, sat in the lot collecting dust.
————————————————————
Mark, congrats on a most trenchant analysis. BMW executives hate making money, and will go to any lengths to lose money. Your insight into human behavior is most impressive.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 5:27 am
When this becomes a production car, if BMW can charge a reasonable price, I would buy it. I love the 150 mile range.
I don’t need a gas car since wifey has one.
I must of missed it. What is the life expectancy of the batteries?
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October 22nd, 2008 at 6:22 am
#52 Rashiid asks “What is the life expectancy of the batteries?”
=============================================
As the lease is for one year, I suppose the answer is that the life expectancy is 1 year, that is, the whole lease term.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 6:26 am
I look at it this way:
If the movie stars and politicians all get a BMW, then there is a better possibility that one of the 10,000 2011 model year Gen-1 Volts may end up in my driveway!!!!
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October 22nd, 2008 at 6:28 am
It is obvious that Tesla is most likely the maker of the battery pack.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 6:34 am
#54 Jim I says,
If the movie stars and politicians all get a BMW, then there is a better possibility that one of the 10,000 2011 model year Gen-1 Volts may end up in my driveway!!!!
———–
uh…ya…. good luck with that.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 6:35 am
#49 OhmExcited says “I am resigned to the fact that EV’s will be mere status symbols to limousine liberals who drive them to their private jets, rather than practical vehicles that can change the world anytime soon.”
=====================================
That’s why the introduction is so positive for people who want there to be a lot of EVs — for a product to be of interest to a broad market, it first has to be endorsed as a high-priced fashion-forward selection. The regular Mini is a fashion car, and the Mini-E will be even more so. Once it is established, the lower-priced EVs will attract ever so much more interest, and their lower prices (as compared to the Mini-E) will seem ever so much more reasonable.
From a marketing perspective, GM is pitching the Chevy Volt as an over-priced Cruze, which makes buying a Volt sketchy at best. The Volt need to be a less expensive Cadillac EV. The Volt concept had a styling edge, but GM gave it away in the production version, which is only a Cruze+. That’s why the Mini-E is so much better –> a high-priced brand, fashion sharp (seems somehow to have escaped from the aerodynamic bubble), and technically cutting edge. The Mini-E is fascinating in itself AND sets up the pathway for cars to come. (Even the Volt can be on the edge of the Mini-E umbrella.).
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October 22nd, 2008 at 6:35 am
53 RB
As the lease is for one year, I suppose the answer is that the life expectancy is 1 year, that is, the whole lease term.
—–
Point.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 6:40 am
#55 Alexukr says “It is obvious that Tesla is most likely the maker of the battery pack.”
==================================================
Not so obvious to me at least.
Mini takes pride in its own engineering excellence.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 6:51 am
Ya gotta love the sheer gall. For only $10,200, you can be a volunteer test driver for BMW! It will look good on your résumé.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 7:09 am
Some details I read on CNN.com about this:
1) They will install a high speed charger for you free of charge in your garage, though it can also be charged from a wall outlet.
2) The lease cost includes the cost of electricity, so that at least helps out a little. I assume the fast charger that gets installed must have a meter on it.
- Eric
(Edit: I tried to post the link, but my post was marked as spam and taken down when I did.)
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October 22nd, 2008 at 7:11 am
Right-Winger Says:@10
I applaud GM for begin smart enough to not release a crap product here. Since this is the FIRST of it’s like, if it’s crap it’ll stain the whole line. better you be PO’d that it took so long but love the car than you sue them cause it burnt to the ground with you in it
**********************************************************************************
I agree with you. Those who are putting out the electric car too early will regret it later. It looks like some are doing it just for publicity.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 7:19 am
#60 akojim says “Ya gotta love the sheer gall. For only $10,200, you can be a volunteer test driver for BMW! It will look good on your résumé.”
============================================
Indeed! And, for no extra payment, you get to donate your very own garage to house a BMW battery fast-charge testing laboratory
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October 22nd, 2008 at 7:23 am
#62 Joe says “Those who are putting out the electric car too early will regret it later. It looks like some are doing it just for publicity.”
======================================
Maybe Tesla was too early and BMW is just right. They are letting people join in to help them with testing (explict) an avant garde design. (It’s not a mass market car that they will have to maintain for years to come.) People want to be testers of new things — just look at the numerous comments here from people volunteering to test Volts for GM. BMW has simply been smarter and figured out a way to take advantage of that interest, a win-win.
While directly a win for BMW and Mini, a sucess in any EV right now helps everyone interested.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 7:24 am
for a product to be of interest to a broad market, it first has to be endorsed as a high-priced fashion-forward selection.
——————————————————————————-
Toyota Corolla has sold tens of millions, and it was never high priced or fashion forward.
What it was, is a car that works.
The Volt strategy is to work. Within a year, they will start selling it, and will warrant the car and the battery.
The E-Mini goes back to the old EV-1 strategy, you cant buy it, it is a one year lease. That is what you need to do when you know you have a product which you cannot warrant for 100k miles.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 7:35 am
Random jottings at the bottom of a old thread time?
Ok.
————-
GMAC is putting some GM’s dealers on tilt.
Generally what happens is the dealer’s have a relationship with GMAC to finance cars they purchase off GM until they sell them…at a particular interest rate, which the dealer pays (the interest portion), sounds simple enough.
According to CNCDA (California New Car Dealers Association), GMAC has sent out notification that they would have to begin paying down the principal they owe on GM vehicles over 180 days old. Those new payments will require principal payments of 5 percent to 10 percent per month.
So on top of GMAC flat cutting off some dealers, and only giving out loads to 700+ customers, and switching car terms almost completely to 60 months (from 72), we have this new problem…and this is a big one. It is basically, giving dealers that last push off the ledge.
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“Unless immediately stopped, GMAC’s actions will directly lead to the insolvency of a number of our dealer members,” California New Car Dealers Association President Peter Welch said in a letter of protest to GMAC released on Tuesday.
“At a time of their greatest need, our GM dealer members feel completely abandoned by GMAC’s rogue actions,” he said.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idCAN2133085520081022?rpc=44&pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChannel=0
Side note: They also say that 82 of their 1,500 dealer network has gone under so far this year.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 7:39 am
Off topic –> General Motors is looking for a large investment from outside investors as a possible alternative to a deal with Chrysler LLC, the Financial Times reported on its website on Tuesday.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 7:39 am
@ #44 Dude – GM explained the reason for electric windows in the Volt.
Did anyone else catch the episode last night on History Channel’s Modern Marvels? They talked about all of the new green technology, including a French designer’s car that runs on compressed air. CAT (compressed air technology). I had heard of this car before, but what was new to me was the fact they are working on a version with a small ICE. The ICE will run the car, and a compressor to refill the air tanks. Total range will be 600 miles on a “very small” gas tank. I dont have a link.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 7:41 am
#66 statik says “GMAC has sent out notification that they would have to begin paying down the principal they owe on GM vehicles over 180 days old. Those new payments will require principal payments of 5 percent to 10 percent per month.”
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Wonderful car buying opportunity — look for the cars that have been there 6 months, and you can really cut a deal.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 7:43 am
Ok, one more random jotting:
Nissan is offering to buy 20% of Chrysler, to “bring them into the Franco-Japanese alliance with Renault SA” Of course Cerberus still wants the Chrysler/GM swap…but as time goes by they will be forced to consider offers like these.
(Renault must really want access to Jeep bad, lol)
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/081022/business_us_chrysler_nissan.html?.v=3
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October 22nd, 2008 at 7:46 am
#65 tom harwick says “Toyota Corolla has sold tens of millions, and it was never high priced or fashion forward.”
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Yes, and the Toyota Corolla has been a nice execution of a well established kind of product.
Toyota (if it comes to sell EVs) and every other manufacturer will benefit from the success of high-priced fashion-forward early cars like the Mini-E (so we all have an interest in its success, even though we won’t get one). They create a vibrant atmosphere for those who come after.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 7:50 am
#66 statik says “GMAC has sent out notification that they would have to begin paying down the principal they owe on GM vehicles over 180 days old. Those new payments will require principal payments of 5 percent to 10 percent per month.”
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#69 RB says
“Wonderful car buying opportunity — look for the cars that have been there 6 months, and you can really cut a deal.”
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Hmm, good point, I never even thought of it this way yet, but that is very true. I guess you can expect to really get those ‘2008s’ under invoice now…all we need now is a list of those dealers and go bust their chops on a car deal, lol.
Just taking your thought out a little further, I would imagine those dealers who are ‘really close to the edge’ and are a ‘little shady’ would realize this is the final nail would be tempted to just ‘cash liquidate,’ then go bankrupt and try to abscond with some of that money.
/sounds like the Bill Heard way to go!
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October 22nd, 2008 at 8:22 am
I never though I would say this, but the price of oil may well indeed affect the sales of EVs…or at least the type of EVs sold.
It is back into the 60s today on ‘recession’ fears…actually they keep saying ‘recession fears’ in these articles, but we have come off of $147.27 here. I get the feeling we are getting ‘kid gloves’ in all these articles…that kind of drop is more like recession panic.
Normally, I would say, ‘people are smart, so the desire to buy EVs is still there,’ and I think that is true….right now.
However, this recession (yes, I’m calling it that, now get over it, lol), like other recessions takes a long time to come out of, say thru 2010-2011….that is along time. I’m not so sure people don’t get accustomed to it again. (After all, people are certainly accustomed to getting a 5% mortgages…and that is a once in a lifetime thing).
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081022/oil_prices.html
Obviously, the initial wave of EVs will be well received regardless, but if gas at the pumps has been sub $2 for a few years, adoption will be alot more difficult…especially in the ‘over 30K’ bracket. We may end up with more EVs of the ‘city car’ nature…something we hardly see conceptualized (sp?) now.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 8:28 am
“but the bulk to be fleet/corporate leased close to home in BMW North America’s HQ area…New Jersey.”
Sounds good, i’m all signed up!
Better include insurance though, my insurance company would probably laugh me off the phone….
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October 22nd, 2008 at 9:18 am
Ever wonder why an EV is always soo much more than an ICE version? Ever have to buy a new engine for your car? It’s usually about $3000 for the engine (4cyl). How bout if you need a gas tank? It’s about $1500. That’s usually what is ommited from an EV version. $4500 is enough to get a good battery pack. controllers and stuff that can take you 100+ miles on a charge. Of course the DC/AC motor may be 2500 – 4500.
So, if the additional overhead is at the most $4500, then why is an EV made by GM around $16,000 more than it’s ICE version? They’re GM, a big company that SHOULD be able to engineer this to a more affordable price tag.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 9:52 am
Another “real electric car” is the Pininfarina Bollore that was shown at the Paris Auto Show. This car has style. Four door, four passenger car with about 150 mile range. Don’t know what it is going to cost, but should be available in the U. S. around the end of 2010. This could be a real commuter car and around town car for nearly all families. We need more of these cars and less of the Mini E with a two passenger limit. Who in their right mind would pay $850 a month for the Mini E? Not me.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 10:06 am
“California’s zero-emission mandate, which was enacted in 1990, was to require 10 percent of the nearly 1 million new vehicle sales in the state to be all-electric by 2003.”
It’s not BMW jumping on the EV bandwagon with a vehicle not ready for primetime…it’s our legislature, in their infinite wisdom, forcing them to do so. Hence, the requirement for a lease. Much less risk for BMW in the end if they own the vehicles. If they don’t hold up in the real world, they can ensure they are removed from circulation when the leases expire.
Don’t slam BMW or any of the manufacturers…we, the voters and former buyers of non-fuel efficient vehicles, forced them into this position.
We have no one to blame but ourselves.
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October 22nd, 2008 at 11:50 am
Couple points:
1. That EV Mini up there costs $57k. You would have to be very rich or a fiscal idiot to pony up that much money for that car.
2. BMW are geniuses doing this for two reasons – good PR and thwey get real-time data back form real customers on what works and what does not. In the software world we call this the “Agile” method of engineering. Put incremental upgrades out in quick succession (i’m talking 6 – 8 weeks) and use customer feedback to tweak the product rapidly. This model as opposed to the “take 9 months to ship the product, only to find out you forgot about something silly that you would have found out about 8 months ago if you had asked your customers to test your Beta version.
GM would be wise to get as many of these cars in the hands of real drivers sooner rather than later – regardless of the issues with new tech and bad PR from failures. The reality is that regardless of how intelligent GM thinks they are, i will guarantee you they will forget about 1 or 2 key things that there customers want/need if they don’t get real consumer feedback early in the cycle.
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October 23rd, 2008 at 6:26 am
Im pleased that someone here has mentioned the EV1! Lets hope that this car nor the Chevy Volt meet with the same fate. I recently saw the Volt at the Sydney (Australia) International Motorshow and hope it makes it down here in production. We have not had an electric car here before.!
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October 23rd, 2008 at 8:51 am
This is obviously a GM PR site.
Anyone other than GM comming up with an electric car and it is crap! ….PRETTY HARD FOR ME TO CUT DOWN A CAR THAT HAS 4X, YES FOUR TIMES , THE ELECTRIC RANGE OF THE VOLT and will be released in the real world 2 years earlier (that is if GM doesnt cut the project; which i am sure will happen)
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October 23rd, 2008 at 10:22 am
Never thought about a Mini. I like it – anyone know where I can buy one of these electric motors and some of the other stuff to do my own conversion. (Houston, TX) Lot of people doing it. Put say 12 12v gell cells together and you have a comuter car. If not a Mini then how about a VW Bug – small, lightweight, handles well. Would be an excellent project if I can find the Motor and other stuff. I’ll keep my Explorer for longer trips.
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October 23rd, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Oh, pleeeze. BMW is late to the party. Electric car leasing/crushing was SOOOoooo like 10 years ago!
Note to BMW: Come back when you are serious enough about electric cars to sell them. Stop wasting everyone’s time trying to make a media splash to shore up your (poor) green credentials.
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