The shocking merger of two of the big three US automakers continues to move forward, and could even be completed by the end of October. Cerberus, the private equity firm that owns 80.1% of Chrysler and 51% of GMAC is pushing for the deal as reportedly is Rick Wagoner, GMs CEO.
The main problem is GM is rapidly running out of its cash reserves. It had been spending $1 billion per month and was believed to have $26 billion at the end of June. However due to the financial/credit crisis, auto sales have plummeted to levels GM hadn’t planned on and auto loans and leases have become increasingly unavailable.
If GM were to merge with Chrysler, drastic cuts will take place, likely decimating Chrysler’s workforce and production facilities. The only vehicles expected to survive are the Jeep line, the Minivan, and the Chrysler 300.
However, the merger would also give GM access to Chrysler’s $11 billion in capital and may result in a cash infusion from Cerberus in exchange for more stake in GMAC. This could allow Cerberus to merge GMAC and Chrylser financial, a combined entity that would have a better balance sheet than either alone.
GM would be left with the Chrysler automotive arm, and through rapid and extensive cuts, might be able to reap immediate savings on a combined revenue of $200 billion per year on more than 10 million vehicles.
The big challenge would be managing 11 brands and 10,000 dealerships. GM reportedly feels confident it can handle the excess brands, and the excess dealers wont cost them anything in the short term and would likely fail out of existence. Not surprisingly the autoworkers union (UAW) does not favor merger as many would lose their jobs.
Also, although not reported elsewhere, the result of such a merger might allow GM a greater share of the $25 billion in government auto loans that have been approved, and an additional $25 billion which has already been discussed and supported by democrats including presidential candidate Obama.
GM CFO Henderson has indicated that he thinks the auto market has bottomed out and the only way is up.
But lets face it, a giant the size of GM-Chrysler and the staggering number of employees, industries, and tax revenues it entails is extremely unlikely to be allowed to fail by a US government that has recently developed a fancy for taking ownership stakes in corporate enterprises.
Source (WSJ) , (IHT), (Businessweek), (Detroit Press), and (Reuters)
This entry was posted on Saturday, October 18th, 2008 at 9:17 am and is filed under Financial. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Oct 18th, 2008 (9:21 am)Lyle,
Don’t you ever sleep…
Oct 18th, 2008 (9:36 am)#1,
LOL
Oct 18th, 2008 (9:42 am)Oh no, another of these financially-type thread thingies. What a drag!
/I kidd
Oct 18th, 2008 (9:45 am)“The only vehicles expected to survive are the Jeep line, the Minivan, and the Chrysler 300. ”
I find it hard to believe that the Dodge truck line would disappear.
Oct 18th, 2008 (9:49 am)So the big question is, if the merger happens, where does this leave the Volt? Is it merger-proof. My guess is it is. They are way too far down the development cycle to pull the plug (no pun intended).
The other question is what happens to Chrysler’s electric program? Will it go up in flames?
Oct 18th, 2008 (9:56 am)As I said on an earlier post. Remember Studebaker-Packard. How wonderful that merger turned out.
Oct 18th, 2008 (10:08 am)Well we have pickups from GMC, Ford, and Dodge at work. The GMCs are preferred by a large margin. Our Fuelman records indicate that the GMCs have the best fuel mileage fleetwide and personally they seem to need fewer repairs, manuver in tight spots easier, and ride more comfortably. Now If they would just make a half ton diesel…
A larger Volt drive system in a minivan should sell like hotcakes. If you have 3 kids that need either carseats or booster seats they will not fit in the back bench seat of a sedan. A green friend of mine was bemoaning that fact while expecting her third son. She endedup buying a used Toyota minivan while wanting a hybrid our diesel version.
Oct 18th, 2008 (10:13 am)Only considering the E-REV programs. I think the merger would have benifits for both by combining the engineering learned by both companies.
I would expect to see the Volt, a stream lined minivan. and an all electric Vett.
I would expect to see the loss of Dodge, Pontiac, and Jeep. The 300 might be a buick which would probably be the end of my beloved Park avenue ultra.
Oct 18th, 2008 (10:16 am)Okie dokie, here we go:
part 1/2
First off, a couple misrepresentations and ‘state of the union’
“GM has $26 billion at the end of June”
—I think what you meant to say was that it had ‘access to 26 billion’ at the end of June (revolving credit and what not), because the ‘on the books’ number was $19,554,000,000
“GM spends 1 billion a month”
–True, but that was the burn rate for Q2, when revenue was off about 10%, we know for a fact that actual ‘car sales’ in NA where off at least 20%…to say nothing of what the average price point per sale is.
The burn rate is actually much, much higher. On top of this fact is the legions of ‘ex items’. You have the several billion they are going to have to pony out for Delphi in the next few weeks (up to 10 billion total in commitments), you have yesturdays announcement they “will pay $1.6 billion into a health-care trust for retirees and the buyouts (up to $140,000 a head) in exchange for an agreement to close an SUV plant in Ohio by the end of the year” + VEBA payments in January, money to GMAC, money to suppliers (like AA) to keep them floating, etc, etc.
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINN1748280920081017?rpc=44
Side note: Gm filed a tricky 8K in early October to attempt to hide this quarters terror, bascially stating that all conditions are fufullied and all appeals are done, so the deal is effective as planned on January 1, 2010, it also changes wording to ‘terminate’ –ie) the retiree healthcare plan will be “terminated” on the final settlement date.
This basically means that it all will be recognized in a big hunk…this quarter, rather than amortized over a years, as should as GM wanted when it first planned this thing out…I guess it figured it might make some money back in ‘the old days’
Oct 18th, 2008 (10:22 am)Things must be desperate indeed at GM for them to be considering the Chrysler poison pill.
Oct 18th, 2008 (10:36 am)part 2/2
Nutshell, bulletpoints in order to not render everyone unconscious.
Pros:
* too big to fail
* Jeep
*Chrysler has some cash (11Bish+3Bish)
Cons:
*Chrysler, lol
*out of money quicker, it costs money to merge, ‘efficiencies’ are a long term bonus and there is no guarantee that will work at all, after all, Daimler couldn’t do it…and they are solvent
*11 brands? GM wanted less not a more than few months ago
*10,000 dealers? Same story as above
*Daimler would probably take $1 to get that last 21% of Chrysler off their books now, they have been shopping it…unsuccessfully (think of it as their ‘HUMMER’)
*Cerberus is reportedly offering a extra 3 billion to ‘incentivitize’ the deal with GM…what does that say?
*what is Chyslers situation with VEBA funding? It is hard to tell because Cerberus is a private company and details are not transparent. Most peg it at being around 53% funded, which is alot worse than GM at around 75% (that is a guesstimate). Chrysler has to be on the hook for around 22 billion, and they reportedly have maybe 9 billion in the fund….thats 13 billion short.
*how much does Chrysler actually lose per quarter? Hard to tell what Cerberus is doing to the numbers, we know they lost at least $510 million in the first quarter and $1.6 billion last year (they said it, not me)
*sales at Chrysler are down 25 percent so far this year, the worst drop of any major automaker.
*ok, I’ve had enough…I’ve got lots more, but you get the idea
So basically, Chrysler cash is practically useless, it has lots of useless brands, sold by useless dealers and a overall underachieving lineup (the worst actually) in the what most analysts are calling ‘complete collapse of the auto sector’
So what is the draw? You have to go back to the top.
/too big to fail
And if they somehow let them go under, all the best parts of two companys come out of Chapter 11 under one roof.
Oct 18th, 2008 (10:41 am)#8 old man,
There is no way Jeep would thrown out. There is too much Jeep brand loyalty. That goes for other brands, like Dodge. If Dodge trucks are thrown out, Ram loyalists may turn to the Tundra (gasp).
Oct 18th, 2008 (10:48 am)Too big to fail or…
too big to sustain.
Oct 18th, 2008 (10:52 am)LOL, do we want GM and Chrysler to be owned by the hound of the underworld?
Oct 18th, 2008 (10:56 am)#12 Kyle S
#8 old man,
There is no way Jeep would thrown out. There is too much Jeep brand loyalty. That goes for other brands, like Dodge. If Dodge trucks are thrown out, Ram loyalists may turn to the Tundra (gasp).
—————————————————
Agreed, Jeep has a real value, and a perceived value in the marketplace.
Jeep sales are off 26% this year (as is to be expected with this market….still not bad considering the platform, Sept was a hideous month though -43%), but will still peg out at around 320,000 units for the year.
More importantly, these are vehicles with a following…and margins, not Aveos or Neons (I know Chrysler doesn’t make ‘Neons’….but I’m still going to call them that). In just a stable/slightly down economy, this is a brand that makes good money.
Alot of the offers Cerberus was getting as they are soliciting the sale of Chrysler, was for (are for) pieces of Chrysler, rather than the whole…and of that, Jeep is at the center. I know for sure Renault was in talks to try and sever off Jeep. (Renault used to own it a long time ago…late eighties-ish, I’m too lazy to look it up).
Oct 18th, 2008 (11:14 am)I see a very smart and calculated move in this. I am not from the automotive industry but just someone who has followed cars all my life. So if this idea is way off base please let me know.
When I heard GM was thinking to merge with Ford I thought I liked it. Ford makes great products but, I think, has lacked design. When I heard they are now working on Chrysler, I thought it was a bad idea. Chrysler for me always has been about super design, emotional products but short on quality. But then I thought of a bigger picture out side of the immediate needs of GM. If the Volt and the electric car revolution succeed and GM needs to dominate the industry to recoup it’s investment quickly, it will need to sell a lot of cars as fast as the market will allow. Traditional automotive quality issues in engines and transmissions will not be as big of factor as Design and Manufacturing floor space. I would think Chrysler would be a great move and show the ability of Wagoner to think ahead.
Oct 18th, 2008 (11:21 am)I encluded Jeep because they have lost market share to the S U V manufacturers and now seem to compete in the world market against the Land Rover which may be a better off road concept. As an E-REV , I fear that after loading in a battery large enough to do the type of driving that some off road enthusist seem to enjoy there would only be room for the driver.
Regarding Dodge cars and trucks, their market share against just the other members of the big 3 is falling. [except for their vans]
Oct 18th, 2008 (11:37 am)This is not the time for a Chrysler ‘deal’. GM should keep a strong stomach and go with the Volt. And, in time, introduce the Delta ICE system in additional models.
The obvious next move for GM is to produce a smaller, no frills, E-Car. Use the same Delta platform/1.4 L (for cost saving) and smaller battery (be it more efficient or not).
The general public wants the Volt-type electric drive system, but will NOT have the $35,000 up front to buy it. The general public WILL be able to afford a 20 mile E range vehicle. And I believe, in these next four years, Americans will trend toward buying American products and less toward Asian.
The city I live in has three schools of higher learning. With 1000′s of students who need ‘wheels’. The students drive to the local K-Mart and Vons for supplies. They drive to local night spots on weekends. They drive back and forth to the airport. They drive downtown to shop. They drive to the beach.
The longest of these trips is about 10-12 miles (one way).
A major selling point for GM is to have this new E-Car outfitted for easy battery upgrade. Yes, a pull-out snap-in battery system. Operate on the 20 mile range ‘stock’ battery for a few years. Then snap in the new 60 mile battery. The cost of new battery installation will be offset by recycle value of the old battery. This will allow for FULL use of the smaller battery 95%-05% rather than 80%-30%.
Then as GM’s earnings rise, move toward a 180HP electric (four wheel drive) E-SUV. I would buy a 180 HP E-SUV with 20 mile range over a 150 HP Volt with 40 mile E-range right now.
And as a prior post mentioned. Don’t get too crazy with touch surface controls. The beauty of this system is in the quiet, efficient, electric drive. Not in the ‘high tech’ control panel.
Ever try to program a GPS system on the fly?
And don’t count Ford out.
Ford concept: http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/ford%20concept.jpg
=D~
Oct 18th, 2008 (11:41 am)If something is too big to fail (like AIG) – it is too big to exist.
Oct 18th, 2008 (11:47 am)Aside from getting rid of Chrysler, what does Cerberus want with GMAC? A lot of Detroit property that is rapidly loosing value and a lot of car loans at 0% interest (I’m sure there are some higher but the US auto industry has done a lot of 0% interest over the last few years). I’m sure I’m missing the bigger picture or maybe unloading Chrysler is the bigger picture. Statik, what’s their angle?
Oct 18th, 2008 (11:55 am)Welcome to socialism…too big to fail.
Oct 18th, 2008 (1:14 pm)#20 gsned57
Aside from getting rid of Chrysler, what does Cerberus want with GMAC? A lot of Detroit property that is rapidly loosing value and a lot of car loans at 0% interest (I’m sure there are some higher but the US auto industry has done a lot of 0% interest over the last few years). I’m sure I’m missing the bigger picture or maybe unloading Chrysler is the bigger picture. Statik, what’s their angle?
————————————-
I have to say, I follow ‘alot’ of companies, I always have my computer on trading—up until last March that is….when I sold my last decent position in anything (ABX-Barrick Gold if you must know, lol) and watching CNBC (it is my drug of choice)…probably why it seems like I am always on this site, but Cerberus is definitely not on my radar.
The reason is that Cerberus is a private company and the information I do hear is always rumoUr/conjecture or someone at Cerberus shooting their trap off…basically unverifiable innuendo. I’m a pretty conservative guy (to say the least), so if I can get right into a thing and understand it…I don’t go near it. Cerberus fits this bill.
What does GMAC offer to Cerberus? Well, I guess you have to understand Cerberus and GMAC. Basically, Cerberus is a ‘top 5′ private equity investment house. Mainly it acquires things that are weak or near bankruptcy, with a flavoUr for companies that are weaken due to cashflow issues…but ‘could be’ fundamentally sound in the future.
In the case of GMAC, GM was the weak party that needed the cash…enter Cerberus with 14 billion (I’m not looking it up…but that sounds right). GMAC was a CASH COW for GM, it basically accounted for all of GM’s profits…basically GM needed that 14 billion, but the game was essentially over when it sold 51% off.
This next part is all theoretical and just a WAG (wild a** guess). By Cerberus getting all of GMAC it can combine it with Chrsyler financial, which would let them fire a truckload of staff, accountants, lawyers, etc…and all the related assets, moving into a single structure. Right now it runs them as seperate entities. It also would get rid of GM’s influence entirely.
More important than that is…Cerberus has money, GMAC still has valuable business. I know it all looks REALLY bad right now, but Cerberus has the scratch to pull GMAC through…GM on the other hand, probably can’t afford to pay GMAC bills right now. You have to consider that GMAC is practically out of the subprime business now, Nuvell/Semperian (its auto/autodealer third party subprime/prime lending companies) and ResCap business models are nothing like before.
The only loans that GMAC/Chrysler financial are giving out are the 700+ credit score variety…basically, the ‘guaranteed money’ The nice part is that because of their relationship with Chrysler (obviously) and GM now and after a ‘potential swap’ they would continue to have the opportunity to swoop down and cherry pick the very best of the two automakers cars premium credit customers.
Basically it is a risk analysis move. History says markets return and the strong survive. A unified GMAC/Chrsyler financial ‘could’ be a big winner -VS- continued holding of Chrsyler the automaker and half of GMAC. I think it is purely a numbers play.
/long enough for you? hehe
Oct 18th, 2008 (1:33 pm)Govt ownership stakes are going to be very temporary and simply
seem to be the best method of establishing stability in a system destroyed by Greenspan’s Fed.
Oct 18th, 2008 (1:34 pm)“You may have seen the recent announcement that GE has been selected to negotiate an award with the DOE for demonstration of PHEVs (Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicles). Our proposal relies upon an innovative dual-battery energy storage system capable of forty miles accumulated electric driving range. GE is partnering with Chrysler for this project. Together, we will be looking to demonstrate the right combination of energy storage solutions required for a practical PHEV”
This was from a GE Press Release. I don’t know if it was comsumated but if it was it looks like GM would inherit a tie with GE for plug in research with the takeover of Chrysler.
Oct 18th, 2008 (1:36 pm)#7 froggy
1/2 ton diesels are on the way. I think they are another year in the waiting, maybe less. I know they are in the process of setting up the Tonowanda engine plant to build the engines.
As far as the merger goes there is a lot of good and bad to come out of it. Jeep would replace Hummer. GM is dome with minivans so they could bring them back with Chrysler. They could keep the Charger (G8 platform) and Challenger (Camaro platform), rather than bringing back the Firebird or GTO. Viper could be built on a Corvette platform to save cash on production and swap the V12 out for a V10 (GM production motor, very limited) with a supercharger. The 300 would fit in with the larger Buicks and Caddies sharing a platform with one of them. Kill the Neon and PT as well as the HHR, replace them with the Cruze and a new small crossover. Kill the truck line and all the cars as they would be reducing the competition and hopefully regaining market share.
Issues I see would be the # of plants being closed and people loosing there jobs. GM does their own stamping, Chrysler does not. They could take the Chrysler stuff and stamp them in existing GM plants that have press room. That would bring work back into the company and could be done without hiring new employees.
As far as engines, I would guess GM would kill most of the Chrysler engines. If they were to keep any I would guess the HEMI (possibly based on a GM block) and the Cummins (could be sold to an outside company). Production of these two engines could be brought in house to make up for other engines being discontinued or production reductions due to slumping SUV and truck sales. Engine assembly could be handles at either GM or Chrysler plants, it would all depend on capacity and cost to operate a facility.
Assembly plants would be the hardest hit of all. I am not sure where Chrysler builds most of their vehicles so I can not say what would go. I do know GM has capacity to build cars at a few of their plants.
There would be a lot of people loosing their jobs all over. GM and Chrysler Employees would be hit, production and management. Also there are all the suppliers that would loose work and would have to lay off or close up shop.
I am sure GM will cover their butts on the VEBA, that is going to be a huge mess without a merger and a bigger one if it goes through.
Overall I think it will be a huge mess, a lot of people are going to loose their jobs and the economy will take a bigger hit.
Oct 18th, 2008 (1:54 pm)Chrysler was in the Coffin anyway. Just a faster paced burial of all the crap they make.
If they dump the Dodge truck Chevy truck sales rocket.
The auto union is a joke. Putting a vehicle together requires very little skill. It’s like paint by numbers. The assembly lines are engineered so minimal IQ is needed to build one. No offense at all towards hard working employees. It’s the simple truth….
I hope the Viper survives. Lutz created it.
Oct 18th, 2008 (2:22 pm)Off topic, but relevant and newsworthy: These buses are series hybrids … extended range vehicles like the Volt. It’s a cautionary tale that speaks to good engineering and testing.
http://www.thestar.com/News/GTA/article/519770
More on these buses at:
http://www.orionbus.com/Projects/c2c/channel/files/270346_Orion_Hybrid_Transit_Presentation_Q2_2008.pdf
The 4th slide show the bus wheels being driven exclusively by the electric motor and an ICE/generator set.
Oct 18th, 2008 (2:25 pm)hi Constantin #27,
I understand your message. This is a common misconception regarding the EV1.
EV1 battery was nearly 3 times the size of the new lipo batteries. The battery weighed 1000 pounds. This allowed room for only two seats. Gasoline cost $1.30 a gallon. Limited range of 100 miles. Lease cost was double that of a conventional car. A very noble experiment for the time period.
__________________________________
model year 1997:
Consumers could get an EV1 through General Motors’ Saturn dealers. Although there was a list price for the sporty two seater ($33,995), GM did not sell the car to consumers. It stead, the company leased the cars to consumers in order to retain control and ownership. The monthly lease payment ranged from $399 to $549, depending on where the lessee lived.
About 800 people-including some celebrities-took the plunge and signed on for the three-year leases. Many drivers liked the quick acceleration and smooth, quiet performance of the EV1. By 2003, however, GM had determined that the EV1 was not commercially viable. It decided to withdraw all EV1s from their leases, retain a few, and destroy the others. GM ended the consumer test project in 2004.
_________________________________
competition:
1997 Ford Mustang Convertible
Original Sticker Price Range: $20,755 – $28,135
Fuel Economy Range: 18 mpg city to 30 mpg highway
Horsepower Range: 150 hp to 305 hp
Maximum Seating Capacity: 4 people
The EV1 was the wrong technology for the time period. Nothing more…nothing less.
=D~
Oct 18th, 2008 (2:27 pm)Looks like the government is going to own everything, they are taking over banks, businesses and every aspect of our lives. I think socialism is here already. Both parties seem to be going there. Does it really matter anymore if GM merges with Chrysler or not, why don’t we all just merge with the government and get it over.
I don’t care anymore about plugs and sales it doesn’t matter
Oct 18th, 2008 (2:32 pm)Since #28 is a bit of a downer, here’s something a little more uplifing:
http://www.nanobus.org/
Oct 18th, 2008 (2:46 pm)hi Casey #30,
I also had an uneasy feeling as I watched president Bush sign the $700,000,000 bail out deal. I didn’t like that smirk on his face. It’s as if he was saying, “I may be gone soon, but the Bush family policy will remain”.
We need to let stupid greedy people fail and be punished for their actions. As this is a long term example to others and makes it less likely to be repeated.
This is how the American system works and what keeps it strong.
I live my life with the future in mind. I could have spent $500,000 on a $200,000 house anytime in this last 5 years. But I knew I couldn’t afford the payments.
Why help these greedy losers? Why bail out companies that make unwanted products? If companies can get their house in order and attain a level income, then good for them. Yes, it’s pain to the consumer now, but it’s also a good foundation for a strong future.
$60 an hour pay for weekend work
16 MPG vehicles manufactured during an energy crisis
Huge administration salaries
Need I go on?
What is done is done. Now we as Americans must keep a close watch on fiscal policy votes. If a proposed plan sounds wrong, then email your representative. Do your part to find national stability.
Our open communication here is a good sign. We discus policy and issues from GM to GWB.
BTW: I am politically registered as “decline to state” although I have voted mostly Republican in national elections.
=D~
Oct 18th, 2008 (2:49 pm)#22 Statik:
Thanks for the very good analysis. Way better than “The Economist” IMHO, LOL.
#31 Shaft:
I was about to thank you for the very interesting #28, but #31 is even better. I used to live near the end of a bus line in LA. For whatever reason, the busses would sit at the last stop for at least 15-20 minutes before starting back, I guess to use up the slack in the schedule (charitable?). So recharging there would be a natural.
My older son lived in San Francisco for several years. The electric trolley busses there were outstanding. Very quiet, no diesel pollution, what’s not to like? The city is so congested that he and his wife sold their second car about a month after they moved there, and almost never drove the remaining one.
As is pointed out, this would be even better without the ugly and expensive overhead wires. Very cool. Thanks.
Oct 18th, 2008 (2:53 pm)#32 Dave K:
“Smirk” is the operative word.
Oct 18th, 2008 (3:02 pm)For quite some time now people have been saying that one of the big three will be gone in a market with such overcapacity. They’ve also been saying that at least 2 foreign makes will vanish. I don’t think anyone would be surprised that it’s Chrysler.
I’m wondering what the new company will be called. Personally, I think it should be just GM, after all a good portion of Chrysler will be gutted except for a few critical brands like Jeep and some of the Dodge/Chrysler products.
Oct 18th, 2008 (3:09 pm)Kyle #12
“There is no way Jeep would thrown out. There is too much Jeep brand loyalty”
*** *** ***
I agree. In this world of SUVs and CUVs the one true off road vehicle is the Jeep Wrangler. People still want this vehicle even though it’s on road manners and comfort have been compromised because of all the 4WDs on the road (with the possible exception of Land/Range rover) not only is the Wrangler designed specifically for off road, it has a cult following. Just take a look at JC Whitney and see how many aftermarket mods there are for the wrangler.
Oct 18th, 2008 (3:23 pm)J Man #25
“Kill the Neon and PT as well as the HHR, replace them with the Cruze and a new small crossover”
*** *** ***
Actually the PT and HHR sell very well. You are right about the Neon with the coming cruze, but the two mini CUVs are successes especially the HHR of late.
Oct 18th, 2008 (3:32 pm)Great to see Red Ink Rick’s continuing to destroy an American icon.
Oct 18th, 2008 (3:57 pm)Great financial analysis by many posters. (this stuff is about exciting as a rectal exam)
Statik, I still contend your using the DRE (very common engineering principle) method for all your financials, but I could be wrong (but not usually..)
Sorry, I was hoping this site would stay more focused on the Volt and all its technical intricacies.
I am going back to my beer….so long.
PS: The world ends tomorrow…please remember to turn off the lights before you leave.
Oct 18th, 2008 (4:20 pm)#33 noel park
#22 Statik:Thanks for the very good analysis. Way better than “The Economist” IMHO, LOL.
—————————————————-
Hehe, I’m just glad someone actually read through it. After posting today in this thread I feared I had run on a bit (understatement)….a little word diarrhea…if you don’t mind that imagery,
Oct 18th, 2008 (4:27 pm)#39 JEC
Great financial analysis by many posters. (this stuff is about exciting as a rectal exam)
Statik, I still contend your using the DRE (very common engineering principle) method for all your financials, but I could be wrong (but not usually..)
Sorry, I was hoping this site would stay more focused on the Volt and all its technical intricacies.
======================================
Well JEC, that is kind of the topic on this thread, and right now the financial trouble of GM is unfortunately a main point when considering variables on the Volt.
I’ve heard the ‘DRE’ before from you, I have no engineering background, but I assume it is something like Data Reverse Engineering? Without qualifying your statement, or the meaning of your acronym, I can’t retort.
Oct 18th, 2008 (4:44 pm)So GM would slash 1000′s of jobs and still get the gov’t bailouts. Massive restructuring is going to happen. Why do we need to pad a companies bottom line in the meantime.
Oct 18th, 2008 (4:47 pm)Statik,
Your memory is pretty good. You must be under 40.
Anyway for your enjoyment: DRE refers to “Direct Rectal Extraction”
. A term we often throw around for someone who throws out numbers and terms which no one else can either understand or disprove.
Just could not help myself, I was hoping you would bite…FISH ON!
Your financial fortitude exceeds most/all of the other posts here. I am just a “fish out of water” with this thread, and thought I would throw out a line. No offense intended, just some good natured fun!
Have a nice day!
Oct 18th, 2008 (4:55 pm)#30 Casey
Dude I am right where you’re at (I think). Not like I’m an expert but when I look into the future it seems like the gov’t is going to get more involved and I’m disconcerted that American’s aren’t scared. I guess they’re just that sick of Bush and his screwups, but the overreaction scares me. I want freedom with all it’s risks. Freedom incldues freedom to spend my own money on what I want, not subsidies for everyone at the public feeding trough. Freedom to buy a fuel sipping Volt or a gas oozing Hummer. We’ve lost enough over the last 50 years and I think it’s going to get worse now.
Oct 18th, 2008 (5:16 pm)44 Cautious Fan
I would put myself in line with you and Casey.
Why is the govt deciding it needs to keep getting involved with all these failing companies. So, now we (tax payers) get to not only bailout companies, but then that company we bailout will either go bankrupt anyway (with exec’s of course opening their wide golden parachutes, whilst the rest of the underlings ride the augering plane nose first, into the ground) or they survive and perpetuate their poor quality product, that we the consumer have to stomach.
I have said it before, and I will keep on saying it. Let the weak companies die, and the strong companies pick up the pieces and make their company stronger. Their will be repercussions, but better to take our medicine and deal with the issue now then perpetuate them for our children to deal with.
Where did I set my beer? Oh…there it is…later.
Oct 18th, 2008 (5:24 pm)More and more doomers on this site. Looks like pessimists enjoy the Volt’s success along with supporters.
“US government that has recently developed a fancy for taking ownership stakes in corporate enterprises.” from item
A loan does not deliver equity.
Most economists claim the “rescue package” will yield between 1.5 and 2.0 Trillion $$ to US Treasury as housing bounces and the portfolio matures. An amazingly huge brokerage deal.
And who better to run the world’s biggest company than the Underground Hound??
Volt is a hands down winner!
Oct 18th, 2008 (5:32 pm)#46 Real$$$
Your missing the point, what good is it to have a gov. owned Volt?
Oct 18th, 2008 (5:33 pm)“Most economists claim the “rescue package” will yield between 1.5 and 2.0 Trillion $$ to US Treasury as housing bounces and the portfolio matures. An amazingly huge brokerage deal.”
============================================
If you believe this, then we are in bigger trouble than even I suspect.
Oct 18th, 2008 (5:36 pm)#43 JEC
Statik,
Your memory is pretty good. You must be under 40.
Anyway for your enjoyment: DRE refers to “Direct Rectal Extraction” . A term we often throw around for someone who throws out numbers and terms which no one else can either understand or disprove.
Just could not help myself, I was hoping you would bite…FISH ON!
Your financial fortitude exceeds most/all of the other posts here. I am just a “fish out of water” with this thread, and thought I would throw out a line. No offense intended, just some good natured fun!
Have a nice day!
——————————————————————-
Hehe, no offense taken my friend.
You know, it is funny, but I almost said something similar to that…but I edit/timed out before I could get it done, then I just couldn’t bring myself to retype it.
Best site ever:
http://www.acronymfinder.com/DRE.html
(No there is no NPNS, etc on it, don’t try it).
Honest truth, most analysis is just that, I mean basically all you need to do to have a opinion is to be somewhat ‘in the loop’…and the more background information you have, the better your deductions are (or in some cases more qualified you sound, lol).
That must be why there is so many analysts…and so many people with opinions, no qualification is needed.
For myself (and like yourself), I don’t give anyone the benefit of the doubt, regardless of position in ‘the world,’ (CEO or random internet poster)…and I think that is wise.
I like to think I listen to what people are saying, then agree or disagree…but only time brings credibility and respect. If a person says something, and time bares out what he is saying to be true…he is someone I listen to more closely and has my respect in the future. The opposite is also true, if someone keeps putting forward positions that are found to be innacurate in the future, that persons comments/value needs to be marginalized.
Alright, I have no clue why I wrote all that, but I did…and I’m not going to go back and delete my 10 mins of mindless prattling. Perhaps, just another example of my ‘DRE’ (=
Oct 18th, 2008 (5:59 pm)Go ahead and give me a DRE. You’ll find what your looking for. And please double glove.
NDRENS
No Direct Rectal Exam, No Sale
=D~
Oct 18th, 2008 (5:59 pm)#49 Statik,
So many people talk alot and say nothing, I’ve been reading your posts for awhile in the forum and here, and you say things with conviction and I appreciate you.
Oct 18th, 2008 (7:16 pm)Well, companies must do, what they must do. Sounds sad, but ok at the same time. It would definetly be more efficient. They should cut the fat on other GM cars that don’t sell as well as others.
Oct 18th, 2008 (7:34 pm)The vast majority of the mortgage paper will be worthless. A lot is on second mortgages which will not get paid. The British are taking some equtity in the banks they are bailing out, but for some reason Paulson is once again selling the taxpayer down the river. This appears to simply be another massive give away of the taxpayers money. The only reason I can see for it is to further bankrupt the country in the hopes that who ever wins the election will not be able to change Bushe’s policy. They will fight the war because they must and not have the funds for anything else. About half of this administration should be tried as tratiors. They have given comfort to the enemy.
I have been reading some on our new Nobel prize winning economist, Paul Krugman. One quote from him seems appropriate. “The Republicans are the party of the stupid.”
Oct 18th, 2008 (7:56 pm)Len
Unfortunately both the Republican and Democratic party approved the bail out.
I am neither Republican or Democrat. I have always voted for the best man (or woman someday).
I am still shocked by how quickly this bailout happened. No one spent any time debating, and it was shoved down the throats of Congress with little discussion.
How can the govt possibly formulate a plan that requires $700 billion, so quickly? It takes months/years for the govt to formulate a budget of only a few billion.
In my opinion we have been duped.
Oct 18th, 2008 (8:41 pm)Len #53
“I have been reading some on our new Nobel prize winning economist, Paul Krugman. One quote from him seems appropriate. “The Republicans are the party of the stupid.”
*** *** ***
I believe Al Gore won a Nobel Prize, and he actually thinks that fool cells are the cat’s meow.
Oct 18th, 2008 (8:41 pm)#53 Len
“The Republicans are the party of the stupid.”
————————————————————————————–
Wow that was a provocative statement. Since you wrote it I assume you agree with it. Very constructive.
Both Parties have good economic policies; free trade, lower taxes, education, lower regulation. Both have bad policies; protectionism, deficit spending, social program which disincentivise work, etc.
The following link is a survey done by “The Economist.” For what it’s worth, most economists support Barack Obama.
http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displaystory.cfm?STORY_ID=12342127
Here’s the eternal toast to reduced gov’t power. No matter who’s in power, I suspect the day will never come. Thankfully (here’s my token Volt comment), the Volt is being driven by the free market and consumer demand. I’m confident in seeing EREV’s soon.
Oct 18th, 2008 (9:12 pm)#54 JEC
You’re right on the mark, we have been duped.
I heard a number of both congressmen & senators say that if they did’nt pass the bail-out package right away, God would die.
It was’nt a total cave-in to Wall Street however….
Initially, Paulson & Bernanke asked for supercalifragilisticexpializillion dollars, but eventually they settled for $700 billion.
At this time, I’d like to thank both Democrats & Republicans alike for deregulating Wall Street, allowing for rampant greed & the subsequent destruction of the American economy.
Keep up the good work guys.
Oct 18th, 2008 (9:21 pm)More boneheaded moves by Red Ink Rick!
Oct 18th, 2008 (9:31 pm)GM needs to start selling a 2009 2-mode plug-in VUE ASAP. All Honda CR-V, Mazda CX-7, Nissan Rogue, Ford Escape, Mercury Mariner buyers will flock to the 2-mode plug-in VUE. $$$$
GM does not need to merge with Chrysler.
NPNS!
Oct 18th, 2008 (9:35 pm)I think the idea that this is a merger or GM buying out Chrysler is completely wrong.
First a list of the players positions:
1) GM – losing a billion a month, needs all it’s cash it has, and has no capitol to put into a merger.
2) Chrysler – losing money, needs all it’s cash, no capitol for the merger. Cerberus has already aquired 81% of it.
3) GMAC – barely enough money to continue lending to car dealerships to keep them stocked with vehicles. Needs cash, no capitol for the merger. Cerberus has already aquired 51% of it.
4) Chrysler Finance – Barely keeping up with loans, needs cash, no capitol for the merger. Cerberus has already aquired 81% of it.
None of these guys have cash to give each other. None have anything to offer the others. The only benefit would be through jobs cuts and reductions in duplicate services. But those things are actually VERY expensive to impliment in the short term. It costs a lot to buy off union workers and executives, and to consolidate worksites. This is the kind of move that would only make sense if they had a few years to see the savings, and these companies don’t have a few years. They will crash and burn before then. They need CASH.
But then there is the final player:
5) Cerberus. We don’t know how much cash they have to offer, because they aren’t required to report that. But we know they have other sources of income besides building cars. And they can raise more new money any time they want by picking up new investors. Again, we don’t know. But they have already been able to put up the cash to buy 51% of GMAC, and 81% of Chrysler. So of any company here, they have the greatest chance of having the badly needed cash to bring to the merger. Cerberus most likely has (or can quietly raise) the capitol to keep all four companies afloat.
And capitol is the one thing that is in the shortest supply right now. The current banking crisis is putting GM and Chrysler on the ropes. They need Cerberus more than Cerberus needs them.
This entire “merger” is a Cerberus attempt to take advantage of the very low stock prices, and credit crunch in order to get operating control over ALL FOUR of the other companies.
Cerberus is willing to give GM some of their share in Chrysler so that in the end Cerberus will end up owning at least 51% of everything. Cerberus already ownes more than 51% of three of these companies, they are making a move on the fourth.
This is a Cerberus leveraged take-over.
Oct 18th, 2008 (9:38 pm)It’s time for revolutionary thinking in order to survive. GM and Chrysler must consolidate and shed the “old” brands and embrace the new electric hybrid platform. The Volt being the perfect all around automobile and the other platforms Chrysler has developed.
Oct 18th, 2008 (9:46 pm)OK, how’s this for free trade and protectionism. Let’s put all of these people who could possibly lose their jobs back to work by bringing more of the production of the vehicles back in country. Work with the Union to broker new contracts that take into account the new economic realities. A good wage and basic healthcare/pension should be preferred to great wages and over the top benefits.
Speaking of Obama, I’m sure negotiations could be made between this company that is “to big to fail” and a democrat who’s proposing a $3,000 tax credit for every new job created by a buisness. They could demonstrate to Mr Obama that a job saved by brining manufacturing back to the US is the same as new job creation.
Bring back manufacturing, keep the cash in our economy, pay the taxes, let’s get this show back on the road!
Oct 18th, 2008 (10:21 pm)Off current topic but:
I just noted my first Zenn in public. It was illegally parked in front of a parking garage in downtown Chicago. I thought the cops wiil tow it. But I figured they won’t need a tow truck Two cops could juct pick it up. It looks even smaller than the Smartcar. Its apparently available now.
Oct 18th, 2008 (10:46 pm)I really hope GM and Chrysler merge. It just makes sense. With the help of Cerberus, GM can build itself into a smart position poised for the future. It’ll have all of Chryslers money, resources, technology,and entire vehicle lineup at it’s disposal. It’ll also have Cerberus supporting it. Not only will this help GM survive the short-term crisis, it’ll help GM eventually thrive in the long run. Just Imagine…what if GM was able to combine Chrysler’s EV efforts with its own to greatly accelerate the mass production of electric vehicles? GM would dominate the EV market. And imagine if (with the help of new management) GM was able to successfully market each and every brand effectively to a specific audience. It can all happen with this deal. GM can be successful again. A lot of people are skeptical because of the many failed merger attempts between car makers in the past but you have to think; those were broke, small independent companies. GM and Chrysler may be getting broke, but they’re still global giants. And Cerberus (the string-puller) is a giant with fat pockets. I have faith that this merger will happen and it will work.
Oct 18th, 2008 (11:06 pm)hi LazP #63,
When I see one of these 7′ long micro cars it brings images of traffic accidents. These little beach balls can easily roll down a highway after a wobble-steer rollover. They may be good for some, just a bit unsubstantial. One of the prior posts here call them ‘city cars’.
hi hermie #62,
I would love to see a hip President give the Nation a progressive ‘jobs’ program. We just need to be careful on the ways and means.
On the topic of a $3000 credit for job creation. “Jobs creation” must be verified by (some sort of) staff. Staff need to be compensated. Staff can be influenced by greed. Staff can be bought. I could see a crooked insider cutting deals for 25% of $3000 (per imaginary job).
I like to be as optimistic as possible, but a see a lot of room for abuse in this system. And abuse is what has caused the Nation’s fiscal mess.
Here are two examples of abuse in my neighborhood.
example 1: There is a family down the street living in a (housing program) very low rent 3 bedroom home. This is a beautiful home with built in washer dryer. Not shabby at all. The female of the house is eligible for the low cost program because she is a ‘single mom with three kids’.
The truth is… there is a man (husband) in the house. He works a 48 hour week. He comes home at night tired and dirty. Her mom also lives there and works for daycare money. This man and woman remain unmarried because they would then need to pay $800 more a month in living expenses. They say, “maybe someday”.
Being single and needy = free $
example 2: My son is disabled. I went to the State to ask for help for him. They said that since my wife and I both work we don’t qualify for the possible $700 a month disability assistance. If we lived together unmarried, my ‘wife’ would be eligible for $350 a month because of lower salary. So, we remain “married” and go without assistance.
There is much of this abuse going on. It’s surprising we as a nation can function at all. And yes, I actually emailed Barack Obama with the information I have just posted. I told him I believe this has to stop.
_________________________________
I have a correction for my #32 post (above). The bail out deal figure is not $270,000,000 ~ it’s $270,000,000,000.
I don’t believe we couldn’t get that price on eBay if we sold the entire states of Arizona AND New Mexico (we could even toss in Montana).
NPNS =D~
Oct 18th, 2008 (11:17 pm)*note* the $270 billion is the first of three payments.
Oct 19th, 2008 (12:35 am)As a tax payer, I’m not sure I want GM getting a low int. loan from the tax payers to buy out another company.
Oct 19th, 2008 (1:32 am)obama sucks
Oct 19th, 2008 (2:06 am)Tesla will be next.
Oct 19th, 2008 (2:07 am)Funny how the biggest” amazons” for total deregulation have become total control freaks. And you guys thought the rest of the world was inhabited by socialists! Maybe now, people will see that proper regulation and good government ARE important for a healthy economy. Human nature being what it is, total deregulation is never going to work without occassional disasters , just as total control never works.
What will GM gain by taking over Chrysler? 1 shit + 1 shit = 2 shits. lol. Its obvious that lots and lots of people are going to lose their jobs.
Bring back manufacturing? Ain’t going to happen. We have the same issues in Australia. ( and we are a mild capitalist society ) Its pretty dire if you don’t have skills that are in demand. We have all been abandonded by the free market zealots. Like I said, hopefully a few myths have been busted!
Oct 19th, 2008 (3:25 am)If I cant buy a Volt in 2011, I’ll likely end up completely insane.
Oct 19th, 2008 (7:43 am)I have been reading some on our new Nobel prize winning economist, Paul Krugman. One quote from him seems appropriate. “The Republicans are the party of the stupid.”
————————————————————————————-
Paul Krugman did not win the Nobel prize because of his scholarly work in an obscure backwater of economic theory, but because of his left wing columns in the New York Times. This is the only way for an American to win a Nobel award from the virulently left-wing Swedish Academy.l
Oct 19th, 2008 (8:12 am)Hi Eric E #71,
There will be quite a selection of EV by 2011.
We will have an EV menu of the Volt, generic sedan, SUV, Solstice, and Volt concept copy out at the same time. We all know Europe is pushing for a four wheel drive model with each wheel having it’s own small electric motor. And it’s nearly a sure bet that China is 1/4 into making an electric copy of the Volt concept. Ford also has a Volt-like concept.
Maybe one of these producers will mate a small turbine with an electric drive. How would a Subaru DL Wankel/ICE sell?
And just as they are all being released… a new battery technology will be announced.
It’s going to get crazy.
=D~
Oct 19th, 2008 (8:25 am)#60 Nixon
Well formed opinion. I didn’t understand your comment, “a Cerberus attempt to…to get operating control over ALL FOUR of the other companies.”
Isn’t that like arguing over who’s the Captain of the Titanic, while it’s sinking? If Cerebus just wanted control, they could just buy the stock with their cash and gain a majority share. I think Cerebus and GM think they’ll achieve “synergies” on the deal.
Oct 19th, 2008 (12:25 pm)#59 Nixon
1) GM – losing a billion a month, needs all it’s cash it has, and has no capitol to put into a merger.
2) Chrysler – losing money, needs all it’s cash, no capitol for the merger. Cerberus has already aquired 81% of it.
3) GMAC – barely enough money to continue lending to car dealerships to keep them stocked with vehicles. Needs cash, no capitol for the merger. Cerberus has already aquired 51% of it.
4) Chrysler Finance – Barely keeping up with loans, needs cash, no capitol for the merger. Cerberus has already aquired 81% of it.
This entire “merger” is a Cerberus attempt to take advantage of the very low stock prices, and credit crunch in order to get operating control over ALL FOUR of the other companies.
Cerberus is willing to give GM some of their share in Chrysler so that in the end Cerberus will end up owning at least 51% of everything. Cerberus already ownes more than 51% of three of these companies, they are making a move on the fourth.
This is a Cerberus leveraged take-over.
======================================
Your basic premise is right, but your conclusion is not. There is nothing so fancy as a leveraged take-over, in this case it is not needed if Cerberus’ intention was to control GM and GMAC. Part of the proposed deal with GM is them adding 3 billion to ‘sweeten’ the deal to take Chrysler off their hands, they don’t want the liability that goes with Chrysler…in the same way Daimler doesn’t want the last 20% of Chrysler and would like to sell it to Cerberus for a $1.
With that same 3 billion dollars, they could actually purchase GM outright…and not go through any of these hoops.
You basic premise is that GM and/or Chrysler is worth something, and they are not…at least not to any other company other than themselves. What is happening here is Cerberus is trying to go back to doing what they do best…and being a auto manufacturer is not one of them.
GMAC has value, but it is ‘trapped’ inside GM. Similar in some respects to the way Jeep has value, but is trapped inside Chrysler.
Oct 19th, 2008 (4:03 pm)Statik, yea “leveraged takeover” might not be the most accurate term in the most traditional sense. I was just putting out that Cerberus aleady has an inside position with respect to GMAC, and that they can fund the takeover by raising outside funds from investors. So Cerberus’s takeover of GM is only “leveraged” in the loosest of concepts of the term.
You mentioned “With that same 3 billion dollars, they could actually purchase GM outright…and not go through any of these hoops.”
Actually, Cerberus is better off locking in the price by going through the hoops in the back room deals to buy GM than they are trying a hostile takeover through purchasing GM stocks through the open market. Cerberus doesn’t want a hostile take-over, they want a nice controlled exchange of equities.
First off, Cerberus loses control over the price it would pay to get GM in a hostile takeover attempt. They would have to pay market price for each share. And the minute they start buying in the open market, the price will go up and keep going up more and more as they approach 51% ownership.
Second off. GM has a “poison pill” provision just in case somebody like Cerberus tries a hostile takeover by buying up a majority stock ownership. As Cerberus approaches majority ownership, GM’s board is authorized to issue enough new stocks to dilute Cerberus’s percentage of ownership in GM. Cerberus keeps buying more and more shares, and GM keeps issuing more and more new ones. This keeps going and going until somebody blinks. Historically, these standoffs usually end with a lot of wasted capitol.
But you are right about Cerberus. They are NOT in their element running a car company. They are investors, and they see a chance to jump on what they see as a cheap deal to pick up GM. It’s a long term investment for them. Not a chance for them to micro-manage lines of cars according to a vision of good market savoy automotive production decisions.
What exactly Cerberus sees as the value in GM and the rest, well, that really doesn’t matter. Whether they are idiots to try to give life support to the terminally ill, or market savoy investors picking up a company that is being traded at far below it’s future real value — only time will tell.
I’m not trying to second-guess if they are making smart decisions. I’m just looking at the movement of the Chess pieces on the board, and what I suspect the next moves will be.
Cheers!
Oct 19th, 2008 (7:43 pm)2.
Eric C. Says:
October 18th, 2008 at 9:36 am
#1,
LOL
Why do people do this? It gets irritating that some people feel the need to troll. They usually aren’t #1 either.
Oct 19th, 2008 (9:49 pm)Why bother, Chrysler is the loser and GMAC has no access to cash and is not making many loans or leases at rates that are above the market rates. GM should let Chrysler fail and then cherry pick the parts for nothing. Chrysler sales for Oct are down big and they are bleeding money. When they fail GM sales will surge and with it profits. The Germans sold this pig and they were smart to do it, let GM not be the fool ti dance with this pig. They cut off GM DEALRS FROM GOOD LOANS AND LEASES, WHATS NEXT FLOORPlans. A 650 Fico will get me 5% 60 months at the credit union why use GMAC for 7-9% with a 700 Fico. Bye BYe Chrysler its time to go.
Oct 19th, 2008 (10:05 pm)If we can bail out wall street, we can bail out the big car companies.. All that will happen is make our dollar weaker…
Oct 19th, 2008 (11:17 pm)Electrically speaking, The best hopes for an electric car with style was Chrysler with their ENVI sports car and their ability to create a mini-van and Jeep.
The jeep and mini-van according to the only GM solution and their spin, are impossible. The only way to get 40 miles on electric is the Ugly Volt, that’s why they dropped the concept Volt, remember?
As for the ENVI sports car, just wait until the GM boys get a hold of that! No telling what they will turn that into, but I’m sure it won’t be an improvement, at least in the publics eyes. Or maybe they will just crush it, afterall, we all know that it’s impossible to build, never mind the fact that Chysler already DID build it.
However, the merger will save GM, because while GM struggles to make one electric, the Volt, Chrysler already Has three and would have buried GM in 2011 with sales that would have put an end to the Volt and GM.
Oct 20th, 2008 (6:42 am)#36 Grizzly
The Neon and PT are built on the same platform, Cobalt and HHR are on the same platform. Kill the Neon and the PT can easily go with it. The Cobalt will be replaced with the Cruze so the HHR can easily be gone. The PT and HHR then could easily be replaced with a similar type crossover that is built on the Cruze platform. Something like that Jeepish looking thing shown on here a couple days ago.
Oct 20th, 2008 (8:38 am)#77 “g”
I agree. GM-Chrysler might be to big to fail, but I don’t think Chysler is too big for the country to let fail. Especially if someone came in and bought out the pieces. I don’t see how $11 billion is enough cash given the headache of owning Chrysler.
I also don’t get this new infatuation with the idea all companies need to be “Propped” up artificially. I swear Americans need Economics 101 and basic Capitalism. Badly run companies need to be let go so well managed ones will rise to the surface.
Oct 20th, 2008 (8:58 am)J Mann #80
The PT is definitely showing it’s age, but surprisingly (to me anyway) the HHR seems to have a cult following. I never thought it would be as successful as it has, especially since it was sort of a PT knock off.
Obviously the appeal of either of them is that they are not guzzlers and unlike a lot of smaller cars they have quite a bit of utility. I agree on the possible platform change, but I think this type of vehicle will have strong demand.
Oct 20th, 2008 (10:18 am)Here’s the latest on the merger from CNNMoney.com…looks like we should know something by November.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/20/news/companies/gm_chrysler.ap/index.htm?postversion=2008102010
Oct 20th, 2008 (11:41 am)Well, who do we want running GM, “Red Ink Rick”, or “The Underground Hound”? The shakeout is coming. All I care about is that GM, and thus Chevrolet, survive, and the Volt gets built.
Who would I trust more to make the tough decisions that will have to be made to bring about that survival? Frankly, I would put my money on “The Hound”
Even so, Statik is probably right that Cerberus can read the handwriting and just wants to get the !@#$ out of the car business.
Oct 20th, 2008 (3:31 pm)Hey, this just in…looks like the money’s not there to complete the merger and the Government will have help out or the deal may fall through. Question is, will the Government be willing to save 30% of the US Auto Industry? If I were a betting man, I’d bet they will.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/story/markets/industries/transportation/gm-chrysler-funding-unclear/
Nov 1st, 2008 (9:52 pm)Last Post. Whee Haw! No one ever celebrates having the last post. (What is the deal?)