Car and Driver just published a Volt review called “Running on Empty: Is the 2011 Volt Hype or Hope”. The authors had interviews with GM vice chairman Bob Lutz, GM VP John Lauckner and GM Volt executive Frank
The article noted that the final production Volt will look the same as the production version which was just unveiled. It was noted that illumination technology might change including the use of LEDs for the taillights, and a touch more chrome around the grille.
The ICE generator is now quoted as being able to add 250 to 300 miles more range.
The home sensing technology was described as detecting if the driver is close to home and then allowing a deeper discharge than to the usual 30% level, without turning on the generator, if the car knows it will “get a good night’s charge.”
Lauckner indicated he expects the Volt to cost in the mid 30s and that the Volt’s production line was flexible enough to allow production of more than 100,000 models per year. Production will trickle out at first but lead to “tens of thousands” of copies within the first year. He also expects a “focused launch” into California and other areas “thick with early adopters” first.
The next generation of Chevy Volt was also covered. Frank Weber said the focus will be on keeping the 40 mile range, but trying to make cheaper smaller batteries achieve it. He admitted that market demand though could lead to increasing the range if that turned out to be consumers’ interest.
There was some discord in plans for Generation 2. Lutz said that the design is unlikely to change into the next generation, stating “what you see is what you’re going to get for a fairly long time,” although Lauckner said a completely different looking Volt 2 would appear in 5 years.
Source (Car and Driver)
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Oct 17th, 2008 (1:21 pm)Wow first again
More Range not smaller Batteries
NPNS =D–
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Oct 17th, 2008 (1:22 pm)“He also expects a “focused launch” into California and other areas “thick with early adopters” first.”
Looks like I will be getting the Volt 2…
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Oct 17th, 2008 (1:22 pm)I hope the cost will come down by Second Gen Volt.
An E 85 volt giving 100 Miles per charge, with a Quick charge option which will charge in 10 Mts, many charge Kiosks all around the country are top on my wish list.
I hope all the car manufacturers will be out with plug in cars by then.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (1:24 pm)I would prefer they maintained the 40 miles, and make a cheaper vehicle, than increase the range for the same price.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (1:29 pm)That is a nice photo of the Volt.
The Volt was the focal point of the September Expo. The other vehicle drawing interest was an electric dirt bike. All other offerings were (nice) golf carts.
I am not sure Chris Paine liked having his picture taken (hee hee).
http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/Volt_EV1.jpg
Interestingly, the Volt had a draw on all ages of buyers. Many young bucks as well as retired people were looking it over. I heard one wife tell her husband that she really wanted one.
http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/volt%2009-26%20017.jpg
=D~
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Oct 17th, 2008 (1:31 pm)Who determines who the “early adaptors” are? Granted in Texas we don’t have the same epa standards as California, but it is getting stronger all the time. If they were smart they would put it in the biggest citys first, there is more population to determine what the rest of the country is going to do.
Los Angeles, New York, Houston, Minneapolis, Chicago, Miami, Atlanta; All these places have big enough populations and deversified in their populations to determine production. They are also different enough in their weather to see how the volt performs over time in various tempuratures.
Please dont stick to just California!
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Oct 17th, 2008 (1:33 pm)“He also expects a “focused launch” into California and other areas “thick with early adopters” first.”
Crap…I’m out.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (1:48 pm)The reason they would launch in California is pretty obvious to me. I know some of you in other states would feel left out, but the market in California for the Volt will be huge. Do you guys know how many cars are on the road in Los Angeles? I see tons of priuses every day. There are people in CA with money to spend on “green” cars like this. More people drive in SoCal than anywhere else in the country, so it makes sense to put out a large percentage of the Volts here. Plus, the weather is nice so it will be easier on the battery packs. I’m sure they will sell all of the Volts they bring to CA.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (1:48 pm)mid 30’s is too much… anyway, I guess a commuter in Central Arkansas will not get a chance to get one of these for a long time.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (1:51 pm)What, “might” use LED’s for the tail lights? I cant believe they were ever considering something else? I dont like the “close to home deep discharge” thing. Keep my battery at 30% please. Chrome grill may make some naysayers happy. I think the car looks good as is, especially in this photo. I’m a little dissapointed in that the range is now 250-300 on the ICE, which means you can’t go over 340 miles without stopping. I cant go that far in my current car, but i thought it would have been nice to be able to go 500 miles without stopping. Can’t they just put a bigger gas tank in there? eh, opportunity costs. I live by Detroit, consider me an “early adopter” and keep some local I hope.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (1:54 pm)It would be great if they split the battery into two double-density packs for Volt 2.0, with a standard 40-mile pack under the rear seats and an optional 40-mile pack down the center. The standard model would seat five with a rear bench, while the double-range model would retain the four bucket seat configuration.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (1:54 pm)GM – I will make this clear. Whoever gets an electric powered car to the midwest first will get my money. There are many cars in Chicago, and Detroit, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, etc. There are also people in this market that have money and are willing to spend it on a environmentally friendly car.
If you insist on sending this primarily to California, you will loose business in the midwest as we will buy other cars that will fill our need for a nice looking and energy efficient vehicle.
I will be buying a new car in 2010 or 2011 in Chicago. Toyota, Smart, or any other company will take my money just as fast as you can.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:00 pm)#8
Apparently you haven’t been to Houston. There is over 5 million cars on the houston freeways everday, not including all the commercial traffic, the city and county vehicles, and the public transit system here is all but non-existant. We have no choice to drive.
The city of Houston itself, not including all the suburbs, covers over 600 Square miles, add the suburbs in and you are talking over 3000 square miles. The average commute is 60 miles a day. My commute is 110 miles a day. We have waiting lists for the Prius, of up to 10 months. There is a lot of people here with money to spend on new technology,
I do not believe that only CA is the best place to release the Volt.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:02 pm)Offer both!
Offer a regular 40 mi one that is cheaper with the small cheap batteries, and then another 60 or 80mi one for the original Volt price. Options are the best way to sell lots of cars. Like haveing a four banger, a V6, or a V8 available on a vehicle.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:15 pm)Pretty easy in my opinion. Have people sign up for the car and put down a deposit. Send to where they pay, not what you think.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:21 pm)#14 you beat me to it although I’d use the Ipod analogy of 40 GB or 80GB.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:24 pm)J-Man, You need to get out of So Cal more often. I live in the DC/Baltimore area and I can tell you that among the 6-7 million people that live and drive here, there are plenty of people with money and a desire to be green. The Volt will sell like hotcakes (or maybe crabcakes) here, just as the Prius does now.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:25 pm)What happened to the 35% to 85% revision from the original 30%-80%?
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:27 pm)This is too expensive to fly.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:31 pm)Well, I don’t live in a super high traffic area so I guess I’m out, too. And if I did get one, no dealer around here could service it. May end up getting a Prissy, I mean Prius.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:34 pm)GM VP John Lauckner expects a “focused launch” into California and other areas “thick with early adopters” first.
__________________________________
This doesn’t say, “just California”.
At least 10 cities have been mentioned as focus release points of the Volt. Atlanta, Houston, Detroit, and New York are on the projected focus list. Matter of fact, several months ago, China was listed at the same time New York was.
GM will be sending a fairly large percent of early Volts to China.
China is supporting GM with Buick sales. And the China economy has been beat down by 50%. This primes for a HUGE growth period ahead with the “new rich” wanting the latest American offering.
$50,000 (American) is not much $ to a China executive. And they have car driving daughters in College as well as American execs do.
______________________________________
For we posters here in Lyle’s GM forum… getting a Volt at near $30,000 in the first year or two is fantasy.
GM needs to get all the value they can out of this car. It’s not a game. Survive now… serve the masses later.
This is not a contest between States. This is troop movement toward the OPEC/big oil front.
=D~
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:34 pm)Looking at the demographics of the waiting list, I’d say the whole country is thick with early adopters. Kind of sad we get to bail out the bad credit in California and give them our Volts too.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:40 pm)Just like GM and the Democratic Party denie delay deceve then try to do some other stupid thing like income redistribution .
May god give the stupid decever in charge a really good long blessing and get it through their thick heads that it will be the car that they make or they can find employment at the local trash colection sight . Plus this constant pushing the start date is not good bussiness .
GOD BLESS ALL OF GM>
Edwin Mang Jr.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:42 pm)I can’t really decipher if the information in this article is timely, or cobbled together from old stories. Same for the backing up of facts, seems to be referencing people at GM, but not so much with the direct quotes.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:50 pm)Just please send a few up to Canada.
We’ll do your extreme cold weather testing, so that you can make Volt 2 just that much better.
If not, then I’ll just have to look for another manufacturer who makes plug ins. And by 2011, you better believe there will be a few of them.
=D~~ NPNS
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Oct 17th, 2008 (2:54 pm)while people are talking about my state have million cars more then your hometown. I don’t think GM is looking at that on the top of the list, but it one of them on the list. It may be bases on type of building (home with a garages), income per household, population ect…..
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Oct 17th, 2008 (3:16 pm)I think they need to offer both options. Cheaper vehicle with 40 mile range and more range option 60, 80, 100, etc..
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Oct 17th, 2008 (3:19 pm)Since Lutz will be retiriong shortly after Volt launch, I’d say that
his influence over future developments will be probably non-existent. Especially in regards to styling, especially if a competitot (even an in-hosue one like Cadillac) produces a more fetching
design.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (3:43 pm)Outstanding news regarding the 40 mile AER being at end of life! I had heard it was going to be so from Boniface, I believe, about 6 months ago, but to hear it repeated at this point makes it much more likely to occur. If it is 40 miles at EOL, what will it be new? 44 miles or maybe 48? This is more Nasaman’s area than mine, but it will probably be comfortably more than 40. I rarely drive more than 30-35 miles a day so I am loving that.
Sales price in the mid-$30’s is important too, with a $7500 tax credit, a Volt will cost me less than $5000 more than my almost base model RAV4 did last year, and energy costs will be $40 month rather than $150 with a RAV4, plus my Volts re-sale value will be even stronger than a Toyota, which is saying something. Time to get a wind generator for the roof of my garage. I will probably buy 4 or 5 gallons every 2 months or so, which is phenomenal! Almost no foreign oil!
Also the news that the first year will be in the the ‘tens of thousands’ is better than 10,000 or less, though I imagine the first two or three months aren’t going to huge productions months. Total range is ok, I would prefer another gallon of gas or two, but 240 gas miles + 40+ miles AER is ok, and by 2011, I imagine most road side cafes will have a couple Volt parking spots to get a few miles charge as you fill up on food.
All in all, nothing new, but a lot of good news being repeated, which makes it even more likely I will be able to get a Volt worth having by June of 2011 in the DC area. We see a ton of Prii, (pl?) or Priuses around here, so hopefully we will still be on the early adopters for Chevy.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (3:47 pm)For me the biggest news in that article is the “tens of thousands” in the first year, with a flexible production line capacity up to 100,000. So hopefully that will mean they will be able to meet demand.
The federal tax credits for the Volt will be $7,500 and cover the first 250,000 qualifying vehicles, GM should aim to take 95% of this. That means get it on the road as quickly, because there is a free nearly $1.5 to 2 billion for them. If they are not able to make enough in the first year, they risk another manufacturer eating part of that pie.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:04 pm)All this talk about how much of an electric range seems silly. There will never be a once size fits all answer. Why don’t GM allow users to decide how much electric range we want by having battery size as an option? Start with a standard at 40 miles electric range, but users can buy a secondary battery later on to add electric range?
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:06 pm)Wow, what a sweet looking back end.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:09 pm)#32 Ed M,
That’s what she said!
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:10 pm)tens of thousands in the first year is better than expected. But only 100,000 yearly after that will fall way short of demand. I encourage G M to be ready to shut other lines down and retool them for volts. A wait by customers will open the door for Toyota and others.
The first E-REV will set the standard. And the first one is not just first to market but the one that will deliver in mass to the masses
G M needs to show no mercy to the competition as none will be given by their competition
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:15 pm)From the article:
The ICE generator is now quoted as being able to add 250 to 300 miles more range.
———-
Just keep dumbing it down more, GM. Just keep dumbing it down.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:16 pm)#2 Aspherical Says:
“He also expects a “focused launch” into California and other areas “thick with early adopters” first.”
Looks like I will be getting the Volt 2…
———
Yup, me too, but that is OK. Let the early adopters work out any wrinkles there might be.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:17 pm)From the article:
Frank Weber said the focus will be on keeping the 40 mile range, but trying to make cheaper smaller batteries achieve it.
————–
I want the other way. Keep the price the same, and double the electric range.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:25 pm)If the batteries are cheaper and smaller they should be able to add range and lower price at the same time. Maybe not double the range but maybe to 46 and lower the price a little.
Wow, what a coincidence, my round trip commute is exactly 46 miles.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:28 pm)hi Rashiid Amul #35,
From the article:
The ICE generator is now quoted as being able to add 250 to 300 miles more range.
___________________________________
275 miles(more) @ 46 MPG = 6 gallons of OPEC
A 6 gallon fill up = $20 @ $3.33 a gallon
Total range of 315 miles = $21 giving a ‘worst’ MPG result of 50.
FYI: Gasoline weighs 6 LB a gallon (36 lbs of fuel on board ~ full)
___________________________________
I like those numbers.
Closer look at Volt tail…
http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/volt%2009-26%20005.jpg
=D~
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:29 pm)I’ve been meaning to ask this.
Is the 40 mile range city or highway?
If city, what is the highway range?
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:29 pm)I suppose the next big breakthrough will be extending the electric range and charging times. Technological advancements in Dr. Cui’s super capacitor would greatly increase the driving range by 10 fold and reduce charging times to minutes.
This almost reminds me of the development of the transistor in the 40’s. No one had thought of it and two guys working feverishly on their own kind of stumbled on it.
For sure, driving in the 21st century will be much different than driving in the 20th century.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:38 pm)Rashiid Amul #40
City or highway doesn’t really matter since there’s almost no battery draw at low speeds (no wind resistance but inertia to overcome. The reverse would be true for higher speeds) Just like gasoline engines, the most economical speed would be around 30 mph.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:39 pm)“California and other areas “thick with early adopters”
Aren’t these the same idiots that caused more than 50% of the first S&L bailout mess and now are the same that are causing more than 50% of the current mess??
Why not trust the heartland?
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Oct 17th, 2008 (4:54 pm)From the topic:
“The home sensing technology was described as detecting if the driver is close to home and then allowing a deeper discharge than to the usual 30% level, without turning on the generator, if the car knows it will “get a good night’s charge”
*** *** ***
The only way this will work is with interaction from the driver. I pass by my house quite often w/o going home, because of the neighborhood I live in and the way the roads are. If they want to implement this they’re going to have to chime the driver and ask for touch input “Yes/no” if home is the destination. Otherwise in my case the batteries could be run down too often when it’s not necessary.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (5:04 pm)DELETE GAS ENGINE install on rear wheel rim a ring gear add pinion gear on generator kinetic energy of wheel rotation charges battery with overnite charge after 20 mile travel the gen kicks on above 25 mph charging battery optimum rpm gear ratioSLAM DUNK lockheed engineer bill husar
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Oct 17th, 2008 (5:24 pm)“He also expects a “focused launch” into California and other areas “thick with early adopters” first.”
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That is, we can wait until people in CA get their fill, and then we can get leftovers.
Thanks a lot GM (said with sarcasm). We bail you out and then you leave us for another prettier girlfriend. But you’ll allow us to help pay for her rebate, won’t you?
Oh well, maybe Mitsu or somebody else will have some interest in us. We don’t have much glamour here, only money.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (5:24 pm)#45 Willian Husar says:
DELETE GAS ENGINE install on rear wheel rim a ring gear add pinion gear on generator kinetic energy of wheel rotation charges battery with overnite charge after 20 mile travel the gen kicks on above 25 mph charging battery optimum rpm gear ratioSLAM DUNK lockheed engineer bill husar
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Sounds like perpetual motion machine. Will it then run forever?
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Oct 17th, 2008 (5:36 pm)Rashiid Amul #35
“The ICE generator is now quoted as being able to add 250 to 300 miles more range.
———-
Just keep dumbing it down more, GM. Just keep dumbing it down.”
*** *** ***
Rashiid,
I’m hoping what they’re doing is dumbing down the expectation. Even with just a 7 gallon tank it should be about 350 miles extended over the batt. We both know that the 1st release won’t have our 12 gallon tank, but I can’t believe that they would reduce it to less than 7 gallons. And I can’t believe that if it is 7 or 8 gallons that the ICE is only delivering 38-42 mpg in RE mode.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (5:37 pm)The simple reason California is going to be first on the list is because we put all that ill-gotten housing money into hybrid car sales.
Here’s the latest figures I could find:
http://www.hybridcars.com/files/sep08-hybrid-market-dashboard.pdf
Not only do Californians lead the pack of hybrid sales with almost 5x the number of the nearest state, but it also leads in per capita sales as well.
After that in sales figures, it’s nearly a 3 way tie between NY, TX and FL, so TCook’s support for Texas as a market seem to be justified.
And, hey, our state had surplus money in the bank before Enron stole billions (all we had and then some) by blackmailing our hospitals with turning off the power. It was a dark (pun intended) time indeed in the state and made everyone just a little bit more, er, motivated to not be so dependent on the energy suppliers, in general. Frankly, I know I and many others see the oil suppliers through Enron colored glasses. That one word explains pretty well why there’s 1200 lbs of batteries hanging on my solar system.
It’s not all “green” movement, here. There’s a good amount of seething hatred quietly bubling just under the surface, as well.
If you get the chance, watch “The Smartest Guys In The Room” which explains it very well. Could also give some insight into energy manipulation in general, too.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (5:38 pm)All or this is for nought GM get the car out now, we need it now, not two years from now.
HUSAR, can you explain this idea a little more for the lame minded?
NO PLUG, NO SALE, NO WAY, NOBAMA =D—–$00.00
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Oct 17th, 2008 (5:46 pm)#4 Jason M. Hendler Says: “I would prefer they maintained the 40 miles, and make a cheaper vehicle, than increase the range for the same price.”
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Yes, I agree.
GM did really good market research on this. 40 miles covers 80% of the market. You don’t go after the other 20% market segment until you are a major player in the 80% segment. This is basic marketing 101.
Besides, for the 20% that drive more than 40 miles a day on a regular basis, there are other options. Plugging in at work would cut 20% down to about 7%. Also, if Obama gets elected, then by 2012 all new cars will run on gas or E85. So by 2013 E85 filling stations will be common.
Keep the 40 mile range – make it cheaper, lighter, and better.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (5:50 pm)#45 Willian Husar says:
DELETE GAS ENGINE install on rear wheel rim a ring gear add pinion gear on generator kinetic energy of wheel rotation charges battery with overnite charge after 20 mile travel the gen kicks on above 25 mph charging battery optimum rpm gear ratioSLAM DUNK lockheed engineer bill husar
_____________________
When there’s talk of using a scalpel to trim the fat from government spending, I hope that includes government suppliers as well. How many pennies of mine are going to this idiot’s salary? Not even an alcohol-induced walking-coma could account for this travesty of an ‘idea’. I hope it was a joke. If not..
I’m pretty sure I speak for all other engineers when I say, ‘PLEASE never speak again.’
Casey #50.. your mind is much stronger than his right now. Any more of this would only serve as morbid entertainment.
On topic: The mid-30’s price quote has surfaced again? I really hope this isn’t just really old or incorrect information.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (5:54 pm)I can’t tell if it’s a joke or not.. plenty more of Husar available at:
‘http://www.thomaslfriedman.com/chapter18/introduction-to-chapter-18?page=1′
Below is a taste… any publicity is good publicity, right?
GM VOLT PLUG IN CONCEPT CAR DUE 2010 40 MILE LIMIT ON ELECTRIC BATTERY CHARGE *USE GAS ENGINE FOR EXTENDED RANGE GAS ENGINE DRIVES GENERATOR THAT CHARGES BATTERY PACK THAT POWERS ELECTRIC MOTOR WHICH DRIVES THE CAR 300 MILES ***MY SOLUTION DELETE GAS ENGINE*** INSTALL RING GEAR ON REAR WHEEL RIM AND A PINION GEAR ON GENERATOR SHAFT THE KINETIC ENERGY FROM ROTATING WHEEL KEEPS BATTERY PACK FULLY CHARGED FOR 1000+MILES THE WORLD CAR OF THE FUTURE LOCKHEED ENGINEER BILL HUSAR SAN DIMAS CALIF THE FATHER OF PEPETUAL MOTION ?
— WILLIAM HUSAR
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Oct 17th, 2008 (6:04 pm)#2 Aspherical:
That’s me! Bring it!
#15 Marco:
Amen. Many here have suggested some sort of deposit program over and over. As there has been no response from
GM, most of us have just thrown up our hands. I’m ready when they are.
All:
Any late theories on the still rumored GM/Chrysler merger? There’s another story about it on the Yahoo news page today. I’m still with Rashiid in that I can’t see how it does anything for either side, but what do I know?
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Oct 17th, 2008 (6:08 pm)“The ICE generator is now quoted as being able to add 250 to 300 miles more range.”
——————————————
Now that they’ve got their billions, the real numbers start to slip out.
I still very much question the volt’s ability to average 50 mpg after customer depletion.
Does anyone have any real world data(i.e. mule test drive, engineering data, GM engineer’s in depth discussion) that would support this?
Is there a reasonably sized (over 2800#) erev running anywhere on the planet that has achieved 50 mpg average?
Lyle, can you ask your engineering contacts to explain how this is possible?
Or is this really a best case-flat highway-55 mph-with a tailwind “hyper-miler” number?
I just don’t see it. Not with the current ICE selected. Not AVERAGE mpg. My guess would be 35 to 40 mpg average TOPS.
250/x gallons in tank = y mpg avg. Determine x and solve for y.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (6:12 pm)noel park #54
“I’m still with Rashiid in that I can’t see how it does anything for either side, but what do I know?”
*** *** ***
One thing to think about is if GM doesn’t, Toyota might and what would that do to GM in N.A. ? This might not be about now, but about the future and the fact that there is overcapacity and survival may be not of the fittest, but the largest.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (6:22 pm)Yawn
Another publication that is a day late and a dollar short of the information on this website…
Lyle, I’m begining to think that you publish this third party stuff to make yourself loo good, you sly dog!!!!
Don’t worry, you always look good. This sight rocks.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (6:25 pm)Quirky article, that I’m pretty sure is full of ‘hooey:
“GM says to MAKE Chevrolet Volt in China by 2011″
—”Shanghai, October 17 (Gasgoo.com) General Motors (GM) will introduce its EREV (extended range electric vehicle) Chevrolet Volt to China for production by 2011 to meet the Chinese market demand, Nanfang Daily reported, citing Bob Lutz, GM vice chairman of product development. Bob Lutz said, Chinese elements were well considered in the design of Chevrolet Volt, which indicates the electric automobile has entered a new stage. And China will be a big market for electric vehicles.”
http://www.gasgoo.com/auto-news/1008067/GM-says-to-make-Chevrolet-Volt-in-China-by-2011.html
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Oct 17th, 2008 (6:27 pm)#49 DaveP says “Not only do Californians lead the pack of hybrid sales with almost 5x the number of the nearest state, but it also leads in per capita sales as well.”
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Looking at the situation more positively, when GM is flooding CA with Volts it will be a great time to buy one of the many Honda or Toyota cars no longer needed in CA. That is, we will have much better Insight and Prius availability, and perhaps some good buying opportunities
Yes I am annoyed.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (6:34 pm)Once again, it looks like regular folks in the middle of nowhere will be left out of this groundbreaking technology. Unfortunately for both me and for GM, the wife’s Aura SmartBuy ends just about the time the Volt debuts. If I can’t get it, I am pretty much forced to go elsewhere. It would be sad to send a Volt to San Diego to wind up in the hands of somebody who heard about it a week before the purchase, while a person with over 30 years of GM purchase history goes wanting.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (6:38 pm)The topic article certainly calls into question if the Volt will achieve the expected 40 mile range in a real world situation.
” As such, the Volt will be able to travel about 40 miles in city-cycle driving (as defined by the EPA)”
“GM admits to certain caveats to its 40-mile range assertion, including driving style, of course, but also proximity to home”
***Again, I don’t know the validity of all the points in this article, it feels very piece-meal and hastily thrown together, so those ‘quotes’ could be totally misconstrued, so I’m not putting alot of stock into them to tell you the truth
I’m not even sure when this was written, it is just labelled ‘October 2008′, but we get this quote in it: “If gas were to stay at or near $3.60 per gallon, this could translate into $1500 of savings annually” Well, the average price at the pump today was $2.98…and the national average price at the pump hasn’t been over $3.60 since mid/late September. This article could have been in ‘the can’ at Car and Driver for a long time.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (7:07 pm)The question you’ve gotta ask yourself:
If battery only range is really 30 miles and battery depleted mileage is really 30 mpg . . . . .
is it worth $40,000?
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Oct 17th, 2008 (7:22 pm)carcus #61
“is it worth $40,000?”
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When the first 10,000 vehicles are gone before you can say “Rumplestillskin” you’ll have to ask the buyers. Regardless of what opec does, the price will have to come down, and as a result of what they’re likely to do, it will come down.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (7:23 pm)#58 RB:
Actually there’ s good news in the hybrid car (not housing
data for those not in California, too. California is obviously a logical place to start, but it has still only accounted for about 21% of hybrid sales so far this year in the US. If GM doesn’t roll out across the country in short order they clearly would be missing a lot of sales opportunities. And if you consider something like CA, NY and FL due to high concentrations of purchasers in small areas there (TX has a lot of purchasers but they’re apparently all spread out across a big state) you are still only at about 30% of the national market for current hybrids.
There is even more regional and make/model data to be found here:
http://www.hybridcars.com/market-dashboard/september-2008-dashboard-25131.html
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Oct 17th, 2008 (7:40 pm)Version 1 is not even out and the fools are already hyping Gen 2?
LOL!
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Oct 17th, 2008 (8:00 pm)from: http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars/4283076.html
…as thrifty as the Volt will be with its electrons, it will still have some power-hungry features like power windows and heated seats.
…both are actually energy savers. For example, in the summer, it’s more efficient to open the windows and exhaust hot air rather than let the air conditioning cool it.
…heated seats, he claims, enhance the feeling of warmth so occupants might not turn the heat so high.
http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/Volt-inside%20view%20from%20hatch.jpg
=D~ Go Volt Go!
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Oct 17th, 2008 (8:34 pm)This must all feel a bit strange for GM.
To have a new car coming, still a year or two away, and have people all over the country arguing about who gets to buy the first ones.
And to have a website of fans discussing it daily and with a waiting list of over 44,000 people wanting one.
As much as it has sucked to be GM in the past few decades, it must feel pretty good to have all this positive reaction to one of their product ideas.
I wonder if GM has ever had this kind of pent-up demand for any product in their 100 year history.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (9:15 pm)#54 Noel Park
According to CNNMoney.com, the people pushing the GM/Chrysler merger are Cerberus and JP Morgan Chase. The GM board gave a “cool reception” to the idea when approached. Looks like Cerberus just wants GMAC and JP Morgan Chase wants the finance fees from Chrysler for setting up the deal. Still, they say they’re “bullish” on the idea of a merger…I’ll bet they are!
More here: http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/16/news/companies/GM_chrysler/index.htm?postversion=2008101618
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Oct 17th, 2008 (9:17 pm)I think they need to focus the first ones to those of us who have signed up on here. I mean come on, if someone is going to cut you a check for the car, sell the darned thing. I live in Illinois, I am not going to wait until 2013 let alone 2012 to get this car. Can I fly to California and purchase one and drive it back? Sheesh.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (9:20 pm)I keep seeing alot of people wanting more range…for the love of god people smarten up.
KEEP 40 mile range….most people don’t need that much per day.
KEEP 40 mile range…get smaller cheaper batteries in production lower the price of the car….=WIN
The longer the range the bigger the battery the more weight it has….the more dumb it becomes.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (10:55 pm)everything.imp 70
I don’t hear anyone clamoring for more electric range. Its on everyone’s wish list but they don’t want more range if its going to raise the price. I think everyone would like better batteries or super capacitors and they will come. Forty miles certainly meets my daily requirement and if I go on longer trips I’ll fill up accordingly. For others that daily requirement might be 60 or 80 miles. Just about every new taxi is now a Prius. Wouldn’t it be nice if it were a Chevy Volt with a quick charging battery ? Also all the delivery panels, etc. need more range.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (11:11 pm)jdsv #52
The perpetual motion vehicle, too funny for words. There’s no such thing as free energy in this Universe. There probably was at the beginning but not now. All energy has a price. Every star will eventually burn out.
A ring gear on the rear wheel would pose such a drag on the li ion battery that the battery would quickly lose its charge.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (11:13 pm)dkuda01 #33 … and I never knew she noticed me.
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Oct 17th, 2008 (11:30 pm)You can have my Volt. I don’t want one anymore.
Now Bob wants to sell them in California only ? I smell the Volt’s inability to handle cold weather in the air – otherwise, why would Bob pass up Volt sales in the Big Apple, or Boston (AKA East California) ? I think GM is in panic mode – maybe the Volt cannot hit its 40 AER in cold weather. And that white dashboard – ugh !
I’ll wait on the Chrysler EV minivan. Even if it turns out that it cannot hit its own 40 AER benchmark, at least I’ll have more room inside, and I won’t have to crouch down to get into my EREV. GM may have made the Volt look boring (even Bob admits that), but it’s really hard to make a minivan look more boring than it already is. And that white control panel – well, I hope Chrysler keeps its push buttons and rotary knobs, just for old farts like me (at least I admit it).
If any of you actually get to buy a Volt, have a custom shop paint “Volt” on your car, so other drivers will notice that you are driving a Volt.
Go ENVI ! https://www.chryslerllc.com/en/innovation/envi/overview/
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Oct 17th, 2008 (11:37 pm)I’m sorry…it’s still ugly as sin compared to the concept. Just look at the profile in this horrid picture. I realize the thing will still be a success….I just wont be caught dead driving a Prius’ cousin / wannabe. I’ll take a lackluster Malibu hybrid over this thing any day.
I have been following this site since it’s inception. Sorry to say its time to go.
Glad I bought the concept die cast model. I’ll always be able to show just how badly GM blew a beautiful thing.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (12:31 am)Does anyone know what that piece in the middle lower part of the bumper is?
GM does need to spread these all over the country. The best advertising they can get is by having these on the road. Having 50 Volts in 50 states will get more exposure than 50 Volts in 5 cities.
I think 300 miles out of a 5 or so gallon tank is pretty good. compared to what most of us get now. I think right now I get a little over 300 miles from a tank 3x the size.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (12:48 am)40 miles is perfect. I would rather see them keep the electric range where it is now and drop the price over time rather than see them continue to increase the range while keeping the price high.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (1:02 am)#9 and #19 are right – Price point is critical. The truth is, rather than pushing bigger batteries, they need a lower-end E-Rev car, not just the tricked-out-Cadillacized Cobalt that this car has evolved into. They need a Cobalt with an electric engine. Or a Volt version with half the battery. That’s the way to get the numbers up on battery volume and therefore drive prices downward so that the whole thing finally, truly becomes mass production.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (2:53 am)@ 75
No one at GM said this is a CA only car. Only that CA and other rich in first-adopter areas will get the car first.
GM in panic mode? Cold weather problems?
” The coldest day I ever experienced was a summer’s day in San Francisco.”
@76
The concept volt had a muscle car body with the horrible drag coefficient you would expect.
Now the volt has the slip through the air body an EREV needs.The volt will not have a 422HP V8 like the Camaro SS. It can’t afford a coke bottle body like that.
Certain sacrifices have to me made to be more efficient.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (3:04 am)Electric cars have their own form of Manifest Destiny. Eventually, they will replace the ICE, but that may be many decades away. In the mean time, Increasing the battery range while decreasing the size and cost is crucial…not quite Moore’s law, but something similar.
Buying a 200 mile pure EV under $25K (or higher based only off of inflation) should be a reality by 2030. Hopefully that is a reality by 2020. Hopefully the infrastructure contines to grow…paved by the E-REV.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (5:22 am)I know everyone will shout me down but GM is in dire straits financially – we are in a race against time. Why not get the Volt into production ONE YEAR EARLIER – that is in showrooms this time next year. There must be some way of paralleling up the production, testing and proving programs. Tear up the rule book, work three shifts, think laterally – just do it. If this was a new bomber and it was wartime they would probably have them in production next Spring.
Go Volt, go Michigan, go GM, go USA.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (5:48 am)I’m with Bailers above. Whoever sells a serial hybrid in my neighborhood first (2010 and beyond) gets to sell me a new car. I hope it’s the Volt, but I’m not flying out to California to get one, and I’m not going on a 10-12 month waiting list either.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (7:09 am)#58 statik says ““GM says to MAKE Chevrolet Volt in China by 2011″
—”Shanghai, October 17 (Gasgoo.com) General Motors (GM) will introduce its EREV (extended range electric vehicle) Chevrolet Volt to China for production by 2011 to meet the Chinese market demand, Nanfang Daily reported, citing Bob Lutz, GM vice chairman of product development. ”
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Thanks for this info, and the link. I see no reason to doubt it. GM is playing hardball, and China is GM’s most important market outside of California.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (7:10 am)#62 carcus Says: “If battery only range is really 30 miles and battery depleted mileage is really 30 mpg . . . . .
is it worth $40,000?”
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Where does this $40,000 number keep coming from?
GM’s CEO said the Volt would cost “mid to high 30’s”, and president Bush just signed a $7500 tax credit, so the Volt will cost around $30,000 after tax credits.
If the Volt has 30 miles of all-electric range and gets 30 MPG after that, then the average mileage would be 158 MPG. Fuel cost savings over a car that gets 30 MPG with no electric range would be a little over $1000 / year.
If the Volt has 40 miles of all-electric range and gets 50 MPG after that, then the average mileage would be 311 MPG. Fuel cost savings over a car that gets 30 MPG with no electric range would be a little under $1200 / year.
Since you can find a nice car that gets 30 MPG for around $18,000, I would say the total cost of ownership over the life of the vehicle (10 years) would be roughly the same with the Volt. If you sell the vehicle sooner, then the resale value of the Volt would probably be higher, so again the total cost of ownership would be about the same.
Note that these calculations all assume a typical yearly driving pattern of:
• 30 days at 8 miles per day
• 50 days at 16 miles per day
• 240 days at 30 miles per day
• 30 days at 60 miles per day
• 3 days at 450 miles per day
and a single charge per day (usually at night). Also, the calculations assume $4/gallon for gas and 10¢/kWH for electricity.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (7:16 am)J. Mann: Does anyone know what that piece in the middle lower part of the bumper is?
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It looks like an aircraft landing light. Theoretically, the Volt will be able to travel in reverse at the same maximum speed it can travel forward, so you need an aircraft landing light instead of an old fashioned back up bulb.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (7:27 am)#85 Dave G says “GM’s CEO said the Volt would cost “mid to high 30’s”, and president Bush just signed a $7500 tax credit, so the Volt will cost around $30,000 after tax credits.”
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My new outlook on the Volt is that it will never be for sale anywhere I live. I hope lots of people buy it, wherever it is for sale and at whatever price is asked, so that they save a lot of gas. I will use it in my truck, which is a nice, comfortable, versatile vehicle. If some other manufacturer sells something similar here, I will consider it at that time.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (7:40 am)77 Jman
“I think 300 miles out of a 5 or so gallon tank is pretty good. compared to what most of us get now. I think right now I get a little over 300 miles from a tank 3x the size.”
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300 miles on 5 gal would equate to 60 mpg. GM has hinted at 50 mpg, but they are not guaranteeing it (I do not blame them on this one. Seems like a stretch, but who knows)
Here are key factors that will determine the mpg:
1- Weight: The Volt will have excessive weight compared to similiar sized car like a Civic or Focus. You have all the basic ICE items, but then add a) batteries b) motors c) power module d) cabling and misc. battery related material
2- Aerodynamics: The Volt as now designed has a coef. of drag similiar to other econo cars, maybe slightly better then some.
3- Drive Techonology: This will be the one key difference that should increase the mpg of the Volt. The Volts ICE will be able to run in a more efficient “zone” to supply power to the motors. I suspect this will realize some efficiency gains versus a normal ICE with a mechanical transmission.
So, will the “generator” be that more efficient then the traditional ICE w/mechanical transmission, to bump the mpg up significantly? I am not sure, but I am very interested in the result. One reason I would be interested is that if they can get 50mpg with the generator, then I wonder what kinda of mpg one could get if they designed a car that did not have the large battery, but just used the generator to drive the motors all the time.
Can they produce this car “generator w/o battery” at a reasonable price? I would think so, since you eliminate the fixed cost of the battery $8,000(?) or so, and now you have a lightweight, lower cost, economical car.
THIS IS WHAT I NEED. I need the price to be under $20,000 and get me 50-60 mpg, and I see no reason someone could not do this.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (8:12 am)JEC, yes they could produce the car without the battery, but why would they? The engine and MG2 provides 50KW of power, and the rest consumed by MG1, up to 110KW comes from the battery.
So, without the battery you have, very, slow acceleration times, no regenerative braking etc, you might as well go buy a Cruze.
Finally, I think the square in the back bumper, is part of the exhaust system. JMHO.
LJGTVWOTR
NO plug, NO sale.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (8:17 am)#75, The Grump.
You can have my Volt. I don’t want one anymore.
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The Grump, please don’t leave. We will all miss your very positive and uplifting comments.
Seriously, I understand your frustration. But let the early adopters iron out the wrinkles. The longer we wait, the better the machine we will end up having.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (8:22 am)Ford has a CONCEPT car named the refl3x which is a car with an ICE driving a generater to power the electric motors and only enough battery to start the car. I think it is as ugly as sin with gull doors.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (8:47 am)375 The Grump says “If any of you actually get to buy a Volt, have a custom shop paint “Volt” on your car, so other drivers will notice that you are driving a Volt.
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That’s an excellent idea Grump. In very big letters, of course.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (8:53 am)#75, The Grump.
You can have my Volt. I don’t want one anymore.
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#90 Rashiid:The Grump, please don’t leave. We will all miss your very positive and uplifting comments.
Seriously, I understand your frustration. But let the early adopters iron out the wrinkles. The longer we wait, the better the machine we will end up having.
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I’d like to echo that…2010/11/12 is a loooong way off and things change like the wind it seems in the electric car biz….at the very least stay to get all your sweet, sweet EV news (and random GM stock updates, lol)
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Oct 18th, 2008 (9:12 am)I’m not really sure how to class this, so lets just put it out there for what it is worth.
Mini E – Officially, it is “a project designed to investigate how viable an all-electric Mini would be”
Specs:
Electric Range: 150 miles (what?)
204bhp electric motor that puts out 162lb ft of torque 0-62: 8.2s
Top Speed: 95 MPH
Weight: 1465 kg
Energy consumption miles/kWh: 4.4-5
Pack size: (guesstimated from energy consumption): 38kWh (28 kWh usuable)
Delivery Date: EARLY 2009? (both fleet and individuals, provided to agree to ‘dance through some hoops’ for them
Limited roll out in New York, LA, New Jersey. Caveat is you have to lease ‘em.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/auto_shows/2008_los_angeles_auto_show_l_a_auto_show_auto_shows/production_debuts/2009_mini_e_official_photos_and_info_car_news
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/Mini-Concepts/235445/
What I don’t understand is them ‘testing viability,’ depending on the news release you read they are making between 500 and 1,000 of these. I myself don’t call that size ‘testing,’ I call that ‘production’…something is weird anyway.
Caveat is that you have to lease them, which is a deal breaker for alot of ‘GM familar’ EV purchasers, lol. Early 2009 is the delivery date? Which is also hella strange….that means they are already up and running, and that is a pantload of EVs to be able to push out now.
/500-1,000 of 250,000 available rebates down
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Oct 18th, 2008 (9:34 am)#84 Dave G.
2 flaws (to start with)
You assume: only 9.3% of your daily trips are greater than 30 miles.
You forgot: Time value of money. 6% on 12,000 = $720/year.
Also, if you really do drive less than 30 miles/day 91% of the time, then wouldn’t a lightweight, inexpensive pure EV to supplement (mostly replace) your gas car make a whole lot more sense?
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Oct 18th, 2008 (9:55 am)If the Volt has 40 miles of all-electric range and gets 50 MPG after that, then the average mileage would be 311 MPG. Fuel cost savings over a car that gets 30 MPG with no electric range would be a little under $1200 / year.
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It’s interesting how the very numbers that most of the media & non-enthusiast will actually use are never mentioned. Sure, also including best & worst scenarios is fine. But excluding the most realistic just won’t fly. It’s not constructive. The claims won’t be taken seriously without. 8 years of hybrid history here overwhelmingly prove that. Try this…
The per-charge capacity of Volt will probably come to around a 35 miles and about 45 MPG following that, both real-world averages in climates with full seasons driven the same way as any other vehicle. Comparisons will obviously be to Prius & Insight, which each will deliver 50 MPG real-world averages.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (10:03 am)#94
Also, if you really do drive less than 30 miles/day 91% of the time, then wouldn’t a lightweight, inexpensive pure EV to supplement (mostly replace) your gas car make a whole lot more sense
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No because that would require two cars, and another parking spot at the house and more insurance money for two cars. Plus you would get stranded a few times and be pissed as hell.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (10:21 am)#96,
“No because that would require two cars …..”
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” …. households with three or more cars are the single largest group among American car owners.”
http://www.autospies.com/news/Study-Finds-Americans-Own-2-28-Vehicles-Per-Household-26437/
Plus, given a pure EV with a real world range of 80 miles or more and the technology available today (i.e. a navigation system that knows the charge and how far you are from home), then “range anxiety” shouldn’t really scare anybody.
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Oct 18th, 2008 (11:48 am)Is that plate under the center part of the rear bumper the exhaust outlet for the ICE ? Or just something for looks?
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Oct 18th, 2008 (3:31 pm)Great to see GM doing what it does best. Hype. Hype. Hype.
Gen 1’s not even out yet, and they are hyping Gen 2?
LOL!
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Oct 18th, 2008 (4:03 pm)First, $35K with the new $7500 credit makes this car a distinct possibility for me. I love the shape and the concept. A gas engine that feeds the battery, that is the configuration for all hybrids worth their salt in future. My round trip to work is 34 miles. WOW!
Second, forget about California, those poor folks are bankrupt from overpriced housing. Try the East Coast around Washington DC where they print money, no kidding, or NY where the bankers are getting 70 Billion of the 700 Billion bailout to watch us suffer.
Al-Kaida I mean OPEC ups the ante for oil 24 October at their early meeting, so these cars need to hit the skids with all deliberate speed, America is tired of paying for terrorism that kills our kids overseas in worthless wars for oil.
Enough ranting, this is a pretty car, and I am willing to plunk down my $35K in anticipation, even if I have to fly out to the West Coast to pick it up from some bankrupt in Huntington Harbor California.
If they can’t get the Lithium and the rest of the car rocking, they can always plop a detuned 327 in this baby, and I bet it lightens the box about 1200 pounds and would get 38-42 MPG in traditional mode.
It’s a consideration, and yes it is that pretty that that possibility should be entertained.
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Oct 19th, 2008 (7:29 am)I thought this was another EV of some sorts but then I saw the dreaded letters “ICE”. I guess if you want a 100% electric vehicle you have to convert one yourself.
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Oct 19th, 2008 (1:29 pm)More great PR for the Volt! This little concept gone to full production has lit the world on fire. Not just because it is a good design and dead on target for the energy economy – but because it comes from the green movement’s biggest villain – GM. LOL!!!
Who said you can’t change a leopard’s spots?
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Oct 20th, 2008 (4:43 am)dkuda01
First option – you should check whether charger will be in at your work place. May be your employer will take care of this issue. I think after some time when critical mass will be reached it will become popular issue.
Second option – Chevy volt roof solar panel and little bit more draw down in combination with conservative driving and 46 miles will be guaranteed.
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Oct 21st, 2008 (4:09 pm)Looks like the waiting list is history……
Personally I am sick on California and now the government will take my tax dollars to fund the $7500 tax credit for San Francisco left wing nut jobs…….
I think I will go buy a toyota….
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Oct 22nd, 2008 (5:38 am)“This car was designed to fail”
The Electric car is not new, so there are years of research it.
One of the biggest problems is that they are way too efficient. The only service required will be to change the brushes every 100,000 miles, something inexpensive and home owner can do himself.
Considering the majority of profits are made after the car is sold, (broken parts) means the company will start loosing money irregardless of sales, this is what happened with the EV1.
Power tools now have lithium ion batteries with no added cost.
The Battery, is not an issue anymore its a red herring used to deflect you from the real problem.
Peter
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