GM vehicles offer OnStar technology which allows a satellite to detect the vehicle’s position through GPS and communicate with it.
Because of the Volt’s unique characteristics and GM’s goal for it of maximizing EV range and minimizing petroleum use, there are several opportunity for productive synergy in this regard.
I spoke with Bob Kruse, GMs executive Director of Hybrids, and EVs about this.
He said that GM is just at the beginning of their learning experience on how the Volt could use OnStar, and that there are several new “degrees of freedom” that will be explored over the next two years.
He said intriguingly that “OnStar gives us the opportunity to know more about the environment the driver is driving in,” suggesting that by knowing the car’s terrain, generator management could be optimized based on it.
Bob noted that currently using OnStar’s route planning feature, one could choose a fastest or shortest route navigation as examples. In the Volt, however, he said that “it might be possible for OnStar to plan a a route for maximal electrical efficiency…so you avoid hills (for example).”
We also discussed the idea that Bob Lutz alluded to, that OnStar could tell if you are a few miles from home and charge the battery just enough to get there.
Kruse expanded and clarified that idea in the following way:
As a driver goes beyond 40 miles of EV and the ICE is on, energy will be flowing back into the battery through regenerative braking or other opportunities. If OnStar knows that the driver is a certain distance from home and the car recognizes it has the same amount of battery energy stored to cover that distance electrically, it could cut off the ICE so that the driver arrives home at “as close to zero as practical or possible.” Again, the reason for this is to maximize the amount off energy the car is using off the grid, instead of petroleum.
So since GM is still working out ideas to use OnStar to maximize electric-only driving, do you have any suggestions to share?
This entry was posted on Thursday, October 2nd, 2008 at 6:11 am and is filed under Efficiency, Engineering, Features. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:28 am)How about having Onstar track our average fuel and electric consumption on our daily commutes for a month and then use this information to maximize battery use and minimize petroleum use. The car could “learn” what our average needs are. That way, if you average 42 miles a day, it might decide you don’t need the ICE at all for your daily commute.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:37 am)So this is what Bob meant… hopefully a little more. I would love the intelligence Andy is talking about, but would like Onstar left out of the whole thing. The navigation console is already wired into the car, right? Surely this thing’s got some memory as well.. either way, sounds like ANOTHER perfect reason to add local network (maybe ad-hoc??) connectivity.
A question, though : if the Volt is already quite tied in to Onstar, will we be forced into that service or another to use the built in navigation screen? How do the ‘pop’up navs’ work in other models, like the Cadillac?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:38 am)It seems like the above proposal would save more fuel than avoiding certain routes, which might help you avoid certain types of terrain, but possibly at the expense of having to drive further….
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:42 am)The use of technology to help plan a trip route or predict energy requirements and adjust car operations is a great thing, but I don’t want to be tied to monthly payments for that service. The car must perform correctly (efficiently) without a monthly payment for OnStar.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:45 am)Tricky to program, but, if the car knows the last 40 miles of a journey in in a built up area and the first part is not, it would be more fuel efficient to use the ICE first and the battery last.
Perhaps the on screen navigation unit could have a ‘reverse EV Mode‘ button?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:51 am)How much does an OnStar subscription cost?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:02 am)For the if you are near home situation… What if you need to do some local things like pickup your kid or get your mail or go to the convenience store for that forgotten milk… Bet you’ll hear that engine start just a stone throw from your house… And have the neighborhood wondering isn’t that car supposed to be electric?
NPNS !
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:06 am)I’m not sure Onstar can really tell if you are headed home or not. Most of the places I go are within a 5 mile radius of my house and Onstar might think i’m going home but am just running another errand down the road. I could see having a manual button to tell the car i’m 5 miles from home and headed straight there so don’t turn the generator on.
The idea that I’m going to take a different route to avoid hills seems silly to me. I’m not driving extra miles to avoid a hill and I don’t need a computer to tell me that.
What I think this is good for is for GM to gather ongoing data about the cars performance so they can make improvements in the technology so every car they build can be part of the “test fleet”.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:20 am)Am I the only one who thinks it’s creepy to be ‘tracked’ everywhere I go?
I’d like my volt with no uplink please. =)
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:23 am)Some kind of a mode for typical daily commute. I drive 42 miles round trip to work on flat level ground. So no need for ICE to make it home before recharge. This could be entered into the computer before leaving for work.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:23 am)I’ve posted a lot on this topic over the past 6 months.
It isn’t even necessary to know where home is to optimize the battery discharge level. You just need to know whether there are any large hills nearby. If you are already on a high plateau, then there is no need to keep a large reserve to climb a hill that doesn’t exist. Likewise, the upper charge threshold can also be optimized. If you are charging at sea level (in LA for example), you can increase the battery charge level without worrying about having a buffer to let you regen down a large hill.
So, in summary, a detailed topo map is not necessary to get a significant optimization. All you need is altitude information, which a GPS gives you directly.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:25 am)Suggestions:
1. Make the hardware easily upgradeable. . . like my Macintosh.
2. Make the software easily upgradeable . . . like my Macintosh.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:33 am)If OnStar knows that the driver is a certain distance from home and the car recognizes it has the same amount of battery energy stored to cover that distance electrically, it could cut off the ICE so that the driver arrives home at “as close to zero as practical or possible.”
Lets just get the Volt out the door. Building Rome came over time!!!
BDP
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:36 am)I hope GM is not wasting a great deal of time thinking about ways to save a few ounces of E85/gasoline. There are more important things to focus their energies on, like low power consumption accessories, programmable “pre-conditioning” of the interior, initial build quality, ramp up to high volume production, etc.
As others have mentioned, how does the car know whether you are headed home, or just on your way to one of many local errands? Do I need to pay a monthly fee to OnStar to save a gallon of gas each month? How much will that cost? Will the car continually ask me “Are you going home?”, which after several queries I shout “No! Leave me alone! I’ll tell you when I’m going home. My wife harps at me enough without having a go#&*mn computer hounding me as well”.
Besides, we need to get rid of some of that stale gas anyway.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:37 am)From everything GM’s engineers have told us about how the Volt works, I don’t think there will be any significant advantage in efficiency with OnStar.
Looking at the cost of OnStar:
“The Safe and Sound Plan costs $199 per year or $18.95 per month, plus tax. The Directions & Connections Plan costs $299 per year or $28.90 per month, plus tax for model year 2007 and newer vehicles.”
It’s not clear if the Volt service will be one of those services or a third service.
In any case, I think this is probably just a way for GM to try to make some extra money. GM knows that a large percentage of the Volt market will be geeks and tree-huggers. So they hype something that seems to combine the two, and hope a lot of people will spring extra $$ for it, even if it ends up being worthless feature.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:42 am)I agree with what many are saying, a lot of this can be achieved with the navigation software. Requiring a subscription to Onstar would be a bad idea, as most of what Onstar has to offer is provided by the onboard navigation system and roadside assistance. Perfect example: My acadia came with the built in phone feature rather than bluetooth, but I would need to subscribe to Onstar and pay additional for minutes on the feature or add the car as an additional line to a service provider, which I did not use, so that left me without a handsfree phone feature to use. I hope they are no tying navigation features to a subscription service for the volt.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:46 am)They better not tie ANY of the important features to on-star! I do NOT want big brother watching every move i make. Feel free to call it research to make the car better, i call it snooping on my private life, and a dangerous direction to go in. This would be a deal-killer for me with ANY car
NO PRIVACY NO SALE
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:53 am)This could potentially be a big deal for those who have commutes or daily driving habits that slightly exceed the 40 mile range. We know the Volt use 8kwh to go 40 miles (80%-30% = 50% of a 16kwh pack) If the pack could be drained below 30% to maybe 10% … That would give us an extra 16 miles of “get home” range. Not an insignificant number. GM may not want to go all the way down to 10%… but it’s pretty compelling to have to Volt go up to 56 miles gas free, albeit in the right conditions.
Granted, this can be done with GPS or a manual override button… no need to drag OnStar into it.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:53 am)OT, but the Honda new hybrid is showing as expected in Paris.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,431612,00.html
The five-door Insight petrol-electric hatchback will go on sale in Japan, Europe and North America next spring and Honda is planning to sell 200,000 per year.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:56 am)Herkimer: Am I the only one who thinks it’s creepy to be ‘tracked’ everywhere I go?
No, and it goes beyond just being physically tracked. Back in 2003, the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals demanded that the FBI stop using Onstar (only in the 9th district – northwestern USA) to randomly eavesdrop on passengers’ conversations until they could prove their eavesdropping would no longer interfere with Onstar’s emergency functions. Sadly it was never a privacy issue, only a contractual issue regarding safety services. So turn on Onstar and the FORCE is with you. Now that’s creepy!
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:07 am)#16 statik Says: “And the Volt has its own site as well:
…
Has some new videos/folders…more coherent information, etc.
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There may actually be some new information here. Looking at this picture:
http://media.gm.com/volt/images/propulsion.jpg
I notice that the 110v/220v AC wiring from the charge port appears to go down to another spot with additional connectors on the chassis just in front of the driver’s side front tire, and then wires back to the battery charger.
Could it be that the Volt has another charge port underneath the car? Are they working on some type of automatic charge docking system for your garage?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:09 am)What I would like OnStar to do is to monitor my trip in terms of how well my Volt is running. Presumably the car’s internals can track its own performance. But how well is my Volt doing compared to other Volts traveling over similar type routes? Using more electric? Using more gas? Not balancing things out?
All these things have degrees of performance, not just idiot lights on and off. OnStar may know about the population of cars doing similar routes. I’d like it to monitor my car’s performance and tell me how will my car is doing, relative to the population.
Of course, if it detects any serious failure, I want OnStar to tell me about that, and about the closest place where I can get it fixed.
I think the Volt will be an interesting but trouble-filled vehicle for its first few years of life, and I want some help in dealing with that.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:12 am)#21 akojim Says: “So turn on Onstar and the FORCE is with you. Now that’s creepy!”
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Let’s just hope it’s not the dark side of the force. I’m sure there are a few rogue FBI agents that use eavesdropping for personal reasons.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:18 am)Ok, I don’t really get subscription GPS. What is the advantage of this over my iPhone? Or the wife’s plug-in GPS? Most of us aren’t explorers…or pizza delivery boys, we know where we are going when we leave the house in the morning 99% of the time. (I realize a portion of the people are salesman, or travelling managers as well…but it didn’t sound as amusing as my earlier examples)
As for having some algorithm that tells the engine that we are close to home….that has so many flaws. Will it work properly? Do you have to program your route to make it work, etc, etc.
What would be nice I think, we be a ‘CTH’ button (close to home), where YOU tell the car you want an extra 5 miles of range, I’m pretty sure I can do a better job of projected my arrival at home than my car can.
But GM should still have this fancy system, it is a money maker. Some people just have to have their car ‘loaded,’ while others want fancy ‘future tech’ in their future car on the way to Xanadu, home of the future .
(ok, I just added that last part so I could post a vid of the attraction from the early 80s in florida…which interestingly enough is my only memory of my first trip to Florida…not Disney)
movie: http://www.iklipz.com/MovieDetail.aspx?MovieID=b8afbdbc-1b22-4a09-9701-3f86e72d93e1
pics: http://wackel.home.comcast.net/~wackel/Xanadu/index.html
Xanadu was actually left abandoned on the ‘main strip’ for many, many years. I was so nostalgic, I went through it abandoned…things held up pretty well, considering the hurricanes/vandals. I wish I took some pictures myself, but here is some other guy’s who pretty much had the same thought as myself:
http://www.abandonedbutnotforgotten.com/xanadu-home_of_the_future.htm
Ok I got sidetracked….I thought it was a interesting story. It is a long time until 2011, your gonna love stuff like that in another year or two.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:19 am)This sounds like a reasonable use of OnStar. If they add a couple more things that it can help the Volt owner with it would make the service worth the cost. Of course, more than likely GM will just raise the cost of the service at the same time. But, every advancement will help the Volt and GM fight the competition. There will be a lot of competition by 2012 or even sooner.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:23 am)Michael Says:
“OT, but the Honda new hybrid is showing as expected in Paris.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,431612,00.html ”
It still has those unequal-size wheels. Are they serious? That would be a deal breaker for me, just like the wrong-place speedometer in the Yaris.
BTW, I’m having a Fit. Picked it up Tuesday. Dashboard display’s claiming 38.9 average MPG in urban/suburban traffic so far. Zippy, zingy, fun little thing; reminds me of my fondly-remembered ’74 Rabbit.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:26 am)#22 Dave G
#16 statik Says: “And the Volt has its own site as well:
…
Has some new videos/folders…more coherent information, etc.
————————————————————————————–
There may actually be some new information here. Looking at this picture:
http://media.gm.com/volt/images/propulsion.jpg
I notice that the 110v/220v AC wiring from the charge port appears to go down to another spot with additional connectors on the chassis just in front of the driver’s side front tire, and then wires back to the battery charger.
Could it be that the Volt has another charge port underneath the car? Are they working on some type of automatic charge docking system for your garage?
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You might want to save that, my comments are in moderation now, so there is a new thread coming soon on it.
/sigh, who will see my Xanadu, home of the future clips/slideshow now? hehe
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:33 am)TAC has a article about the Malibu’s “strong performance” last month and GM’s numbers:
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/ttac-called-it-gms-september-result-propped-up-by-fleet-sales/
Apparently of 19,725 Malibus sold last month, 10, 462, or 53%, were sold to fleets/rental car agencies.
“During the month, sales of vehicles to fleet customers jumped 17% compared to September 2007, while retail sales dropped 26%.”
“When launching the car last fall, GM said its goal for the Malibu was to sell no more than 20% to rental car companies, down from 40% for the old models.”
/just thought it was interesting
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They thought, the XLR was toast too, here is the source link from Left Lane news:
Not long ago, we flatly asked GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz, ‘when the new C7 Corvette arrives, will the Cadillac XLR be along for the ride?’
‘That is way too specific,” said Lutz.”
Source: http://www.leftlanenews.com/insiders-second-generation-cadillac-xlr-unlikely.html
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:35 am)#24 statik Says: “But GM should still have this fancy system, it is a money maker. Some people just have to have their car ‘loaded,’ …”
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Yeah. If the car lasts 10 years and each owner signs up for the Directions & Connections Plan at $28.90/month, that comes to $3436 extra per car, most of which avoids dealer mark-up.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:39 am)The best optimization algorithm is the drive it self. Let every one to set there own parameters with GM software approval/warnings and error conditions. For my opinion it is the most common and easiest solution.
Using OnStar the algorithm, communication is complicated and will very expensive and I thing not needed by drivers
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:40 am)I’m not sure that Bob would allow the driver to override when the ICE kicks on, he is so worried about the battery’s lifespan and possible owner abuse of the battery. However, there IS something the driver can do…
What if you leave the gas tank empty – nada, none, not a drop of gas. Would the Volt be smart enough to not start the ICE if there was no gas in the tank, or would the Volt attempt to start the ICE, over and over, in futile attempts to recharge the battery ? If the second scenerio is true, the Volt would wear out the starter flywheel teeth very quickly.
I hope the Volt is smarter than that.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:44 am)Lyle,
Could you ask GM if there is a second charge port underneath the car, as shown here?
http://media.gm.com/volt/images/propulsion.jpg
Is GM working on some type of automatic charge docking system for your garage?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:17 am)#12 Don’t hold your breath about easily upgradeable software and hardware. Case in point….. Older Onstar Systems (Late 90′s, early 2000′s) are no longer operational because they were based on old analog cellular technology. Those cars no longer have a functional OnStar system. They are not upgradeable and customers are not happy.
Second thought about route calculation. My experience with GPS has been mixed. 90% of the time it works find (calculating a route), but sometimes it will get you hopelessly lost or not be able to locate your destination based on the (correct) address you give it. OnStar will not be able to outguess the average driver with a clue as to the best route home. OnStar doesn’t know the light at 9′th and Sangamon Ave is horridly long and needs to be avoided, etc.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:19 am)#31 The Grump Says: “I’m not sure that Bob would allow the driver to override when the ICE kicks on, he is so worried about the battery’s lifespan and possible owner abuse of the battery.”
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It’s quite possible that GM will allow the driver to control the gas engine manually at any battery level above 30%. This wouldn’t hurt the battery. In fact, this may be what the letter “M” corresponds to on the shifter.
The ICE comes on automatically at around 30% charge. Anything lower than that would wear out the battery, so GM will make sure the ICE turns on at around 30% no matter what.
But if the battery is currently at 60%, and the driver wants to turn on the gas engine manually, then the ICE would simply sustain the 60% battery level.
This would be useful to test the gas engine if it hasn’t been started in a while. It could also be used to run out old gas in the tank before it gets stale.
It may also be used by some people who are paranoid about mountain driving. Volt chief engineer Andrew Farah told us that the 30% remaining in the battery provides sufficient power for mountain driving (unless you drive like a madman):
http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/02/the-pikes-peak-question-chevy-volt-and-the-infinite-hill/
And even if you do drive 80 MPH constantly up a steep mountain pass for many miles, you’ll still get there. You’ll just have to slow down to 50 MPH or so towards the end. But some people are still not convinced and want to turn the ICE on before the battery gets down to 30%, so they’ll just waste a little more gas.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:19 am)The Volt’s onboard celestial guidance system will tell the driver which jump gate to use.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:24 am)NO. 31 said ” If the second scenerio is true, the Volt would wear out the starter flywheel teeth very quickly”
Do you think the Volt would use a separate old fashion starter rather than just using the generator as a motor to start the engine?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:26 am)Lyle,
Could you ask GM what the letter “M” stands for on the shifter?
On the display behind the steering wheel, the shifter area has the letters:
P R N D M
P = Park
R = Reverse
N = Neutral
D = Drive
M = ??????
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:27 am)With my prior experiences with various GPS systems, I have a feeling I couldn’t do worse than what OnStar would tell me….
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:27 am)Why not a simple mode button to toggle between several operating conditions; Normal Commute (less than 40 miles), Extended (slightly more than 40 miles), and Long Distance (60+ mile trip).
Also, with the GPS and navigation, a “Going Home” button would allow the car to know about how much further it needs to go. It would then be able to manage the ICE so as to get home with the batteries as close to empty as possible.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:35 am)Just thought I would post this link, as I have not seen it yet:
Official release from GM of the Chevy Cruze interior (no more crazy spy shots), this thing is pretty nice all things considered…why can’t we just have this in the Volt?
http://www.leftlanenews.com/cars/image_popup/imagegallery3.php?postid=9052&gallerynum=0&defimage=http%3A%2F%2Fphotos.leftlanenews.com%2Fphotos%2Fimageresizeronfly%2FphpThumb.php%3Fsrc%3D%2Fphotos%2Fcontent%2Faugust2008%2Fcruze-int-1.jpg
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:46 am)Herkimer #9
“Am I the only one who thinks it’s creepy to be ‘tracked’ everywhere I go?
I’d like my volt with no uplink please. =)”
*** *** ***
No you’re not. Actually my cell phone has a feature just like this and if mine were turned on I could conceivably be tracked. The feature does cost extra and since I already have a good GPS, I don’t need it. If GM offers this I certainly hope that:
1. It’s a premium feature and isn’t built in for free, so those that pay for it understand the privacy issues.
2. Has controls/display that assure the driver that even if it was turned on for new purchasers as a trial (as often happens with promos) that when it’s off it is OFF and your privacy is assured.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:49 am)Re: Xanadu
Man… The future sucks.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:52 am)My guess is that the “M” position on the shifter is the high-performance, high torque mode called “Massive Drain” or “Macho”.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:53 am)Sorry for the thread hi-jack but this could be interesting to some….
Hondas new hybrid:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,431612,00.html
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:04 am)Statik #40
Thanks for the shot. I agree that it’s a nice interrior, you went out on a limb mentioning that, but we won’t take it as a sign of weakness.
Not all that different from the Volt, and it shows just how good the volt could look if the center console were brushed metal instead of ipod white.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:07 am)It seems to me that there would be several variables in determining the most efficient route (speed and changes in elevation being two major ones that I can think of off the top of my head). I often find that programs like MapQuest or Goolge Maps have information that is incomplete (especially in rural areas) or inaccurate (unrealistic assumptions about driving speed – rush hour traffic can average 20 m.p.h. on a 55 m.p.h. highway). So I’m having a hard time seeing how OnStar would accurately tell me which route to take. If they don’t have all of the streets right in my area, I can’t believe that they will know how steep or long the hills are, or how fast people are really driving at a given moment. The idea is great. The execution is not likely to be great.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:07 am)It amazes me the lengths people are willing to go to avoid burning a drop of gas. The Grump’s solution of leaving the gas tank empty? And hoping that the car lets you keep draining the battery so you can drive home. I would guess the more likely scenario is once the battery is drained to a certain level and there is no gas in the tank the car shuts off. And there is The Grump stranded half a mile from home because he miscalculated the charge left in the battery. But on the bright side he did save a pint of gas.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:07 am)#24 statik
I enjoyed the Xanadu side trip you offered. Thanks. Yes, by 2011 we will need all the “interesting” things we can get to keep our minds off the Volt that won’t be in the showroom at our local dealer for another year or so. Keep giving us the “goodies”.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:12 am)All of this “Gee-whiz-bang” stuff can be accomplished by an on-board GPS system. There’s no need to require On-Star for these functions. I see this as an option, not a requirement. There may be limited uses for this stuff, but IMHO GM should leave the choice to the customer.
It would be nice when you’re planning on taking a longer trip for the GPS system to have the option of planning your route based upon efficiency…say, optimal battery performance…or perhaps, optimal driving performance…option being the keyword here.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:12 am)#26 Fahrvergnugen Fanboy
“BTW, I’m having a Fit. Picked it up Tuesday. Dashboard display’s claiming 38.9 average MPG in urban/suburban traffic so far. Zippy, zingy, fun little thing; reminds me of my fondly-remembered ‘74 Rabbit.”
Is your Fit a manual transmission or automatic? The Fit is a cute car. I have a friend that has one and he loves it. Says they are going to buy another next year (and keep the current one) but he is going to buy the Sport version.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:23 am)I agree with the thought that GM will not allow Volt to drop below 30% charge, battery life is key. Give a person a button & they would push it every day as many times as they could even if headed away from a charging port if they thought it would give them more gas free miles. Be real! People would abuse the heQQ out of it since the battery is covered under warranty they would not care. With that said knowing how many miles to home is useless unless you want to arrive with more charge (starting ICE unneccessarily) by going manual. By default ever one will arrive with the lowest possible charge allowed unless you over ride the system and start the ICE. I think I will be fine with a hands free cell phone & if needed I’ll buy a GPS. Of course hands free in 3 years could mean voice activated since now texting is on a fast track to illegality in all 50 states while driving (can you say train wreck). Touching a phone while driving might be all it takes to get a ticket.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:27 am)N Riley.
I’m sorry your having a Fit, I guess you could blame your parents for bad parenting skills. ;0
I’ve been doing many of these things with my Solstice GXP, I’ve tuned the engine to provide 320 horsepower and 380′ Ibs of trq but also have the car tuned quite nicely for low RPM and low boost, I’m getting 39.3-42MPG now with a very careful commute. I’m avoiding traffic lights and driving at 60 MPH on the park way rather then 70 MPH on the free way. You can save a ton of gas by avoiding hills, traffic lights, traffic, excessive speed, etc… I’ve gained an additional 30% in mileage, it would be interesting/usefull to have a GPS/Computer giving me additional suggestions.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:40 am)#40 Statik – “why can’t we just have this in the Volt?”
The Cruze interior? Meh.
Next stop after Xanadu will be the world’s biggest ball of twine. LOL
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:41 am)#40 Statik
Thanks for the Cruze link. It is a great looking car inside and out. Wish it was available now.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:49 am)Speaking of OnStar: I think the Volt will “learn” your habits such as the route or routes you take going home and to work. Your daily routine will be in memory and the car will use that to help determine such things as whether it can make it home (based on the route you are presently on) before needing to turn the ICE on. It doesn’t take much of OnStar’s capability to do that. It will use the built-in GPS and build up a historical data base (held inside the car) of your trips. From that data base the Volt will be able to pretty well guess what your current driving route is going to lead to. This is something that will be enhanced in later versions of the Volt. I suspect a lot of this will not be in version one.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:52 am)#26
“It still has those unequal-size wheels. Are they serious? That would be a deal breaker for me, ”
Totally agree.
THe wife has a 2002 Winstar (loser star in my book) that has 3 different sized WIPERBLADES and it drives me NUTS!!
different sized tires? fuh get aboutit
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:54 am)#54 DonC
#40 Statik – “why can’t we just have this in the Volt?”
The Cruze interior? Meh.
Next stop after Xanadu will be the world’s biggest ball of twine. LOL
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No one has any reason to go to Minnesota….ever.
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…just kidding Minnesotans (?)
You always have the baseball playoffs…whoops, no you don’t. Well you got that big spoon with the cherry on the end of it, right?….that counts for something.
http://www.j-archive.com/media/2006-06-09_DJ_29.jpg
Oct 2nd, 2008 (10:59 am)Bring it on. My wife will love OnStar. If we can afford a Volt, whatever the ever moving target price is, we can sure afford $30/month to optimize the performance and fuel economy.
#13 BDP:
My sentiments exactly.
#19 Michael:
They are going to sell a TON of these. 200K a year is not enough capacity, JMHO.
Finally, can we PLEASE have a few less references to “geeks”, “tree huggers”, and sundry other slighting comments about “environmentalists”? People who might be described as such (myself included) will clearly be a large part of the core market for the Volt. What earthly good can it do to insult them, and turn them offf on GM-Volt.com?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (11:02 am)#47 Jack
I agree that some people here seem to go to the extreme in trying to not use a drop of gasoline. Those people who talk about leaving the gas tank empty to keep the ICE from coming on would be better served to purchase an all electric battery driven vehicle without a range extender. Come on people. Let the Volt do what the Volt was designed to do. Use the battery as much as possible before firing up the ICE to complete your journey. Sure that means you may have to put a few gallons of gas in your Volt once or twice a year. Big deal. Get over it.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (11:04 am)A few comments on OnStar….
OnStar will only track YOU when you press the OnStar button and connect with them. The only time THEY will initiate contact with you is in the event of an accident (either air bag deploys or the vehicle sends an ‘emergency maneauver’ message to OnStar).
OnStar service comes for no-charge for the first year and then is $199 per year subscription.
Because of the added safety that OnStar offers (fast emergency response to an accident, speedy response to medical emergencies, stolen vehicle recovery, etc) most insurance carriers will grant a discount for OnStar service.
Stolen vehicle tracking services like LoJack only work in approx 40% of the U.S. – so if your vehicle were to be stolen and driven to most locations it could not be tracked. OnStar works nationally.
If you carry an EZ-pass or cell phone in your vehicle, you are being tracked already… so don’t worry that OnStar is doing something that can’t be done by someone else!
Bring on the VOLT!!!
Oct 2nd, 2008 (11:09 am)#52 bradyb
I am not the one having a Fit. I just asked the question about did it have a manual or automatic transmission.
Sounds like you are on top of getting as much mileage as you can from your car. Way to go!
Oct 2nd, 2008 (11:12 am)#58 Noel Park – “Finally, can we PLEASE have a few less references to “geeks”, “tree huggers”, and sundry other slighting comments about “environmentalists”? People who might be described as such (myself included) will clearly be a large part of the core market for the Volt. What earthly good can it do to insult them, and turn them offf on GM-Volt.com?”
We could all lighten up a bit. The comments are so crazy they’re actually amusing. Yesterday I had to laugh at the “Pro American vs. Environmental” pairing. It is soooooo funny. As John Stewart has pointed out, these people love this country … they just hate most of the people who live here (and from the interviews most of the people making the Volt).
Oct 2nd, 2008 (11:18 am)#34 DaveG – You completely missed my point . The question is – What would the Volt do when the battery goes below 30% SOC, and there is NO gas in the tank ?
The posters here are always griping about how the Volt should be a pure BEV like the EV1. No gas in the tank is a sure way to turn the Volt into an a BEV – The Volt cannot burn what it doesn’t have. If I can think of this, someone is surely going to try it, to max their BEV range.
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BTW DaveG, I think you and #51 Neutron Flux need to talk. Flux believes like I do – there’s no way Bob’s going to allow drivers any manual control over HIS batteries. Bob knows people would abuse the hell out of them, to get maximum range without gas.
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#47 Jack – Maybe so, but you know someone is gonna try it. Think about this – 50 % of the battery gets you 40 miles. Therefore, 30% SOC should be good for three fifths’s of that – 40 miles divided by 5, times 3 = roughly 24 extra miles. With no gas, the Volt would use the battery only. There’s enough OPEC haters here, that someone’s going to try it – 64 miles on batteries is just too tempting. I never said it was wise, or smart.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (11:28 am)I just looked at the new pictures Honda posted on their web-site about the Insight hybrid. It really looks good. The front and back tires look to be the same size for those of us who saw a discrepancy in the other photos. It sure looked lile the rear tire was smaller. Anyway that does not seem to be so in the new pictures. See them at: http://automobiles.honda.com/insight-hybrid/exterior-photos.aspx
Oct 2nd, 2008 (11:33 am)#61 LeoK (or #60, if my post about the new Volt site is still ‘in moderation’)
OnStar will only track YOU when you press the OnStar button and connect with them. The only time THEY will initiate contact with you is in the event of an accident (either air bag deploys or the vehicle sends an ‘emergency maneauver’ message to OnStar).
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This is just some of issues people have problems with OnStar (the bizzaro long Terms and Services agreement):
Section 33:
DATA ABOUT ACCIDENTS INVOLVING YOUR CAR,
You agree that we can, subject to applicable law, use any of this information to:
(j) comply with legal requirements, including valid court orders showing probable cause in criminal investigations;
(k) protect the rights, property, or safety of you or others;
(m) confirm your eligibility in car insurance discount programs
you’ve applied for;
34:OnStar will not release any audio or physical records that are created as part of the OnStar service without a subpoena (unless otherwise required by law).
39. HOW WE’LL RESOLVE DISPUTES BETWEEN US. If you and we have a disagreement related to OnStar service, we’ll try to resolve it by talking with each other. If we can’t resolve it that way, WE BOTH AGREE, TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, TO USE ARBITRATION, NOT LAWSUITS (except for small claims court cases) TO RESOLVE THE DISPUTE
IF FOR SOME REASON THESE ARBITRATION REQUIREMENTS DON’T APPLY, OR A CLAIM PROCEEDS IN SMALL CLAIMS COURT, WE EACH WAIVE ANY TRIAL BY JURY.
(Note: The caps/bold aren’t mine…its in the agreement that way)
42. WHO ELSE THIS AGREEMENT COVERS. Our Service Providers and our affiliates are intended beneficiaries of this agreement. You agree that you’ll make any of your passengers or guests or drivers of your Car aware of our rights and subject to the limitations of this agreement.
http://www.onstar.com/us_english/jsp/terms_conditions.jsp
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There is lots of other ‘nuggets’ of happiness in there as well.
All that stuff is well and good, if you want OnStar, GM has to certainly cover its butt…the real problem is you can’t get vehicles that NOT equipped with OnStar in most cases, and therefore are forced to accpet it and this glorius piece of legal paperwork.
At the very least, even if you don’t want OnStar, you are forced to pay for its hardware and intigration into your car…and that sucks.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (11:56 am)#64 N Riley:
Yeah, every time I see a picture of one of those !@#$%^ things I feel like someone just walked over my grave. Or GM’s anyway.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:06 pm)This is cool technology. I like it.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:11 pm)I love to say “I told you so”
Post 197 on Sept 7th
http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/26/the-chevy-volt-generator-will-run-at-one-of-several-fixed-rpms/#comments
Post 197 In reply to #192
… It might be good if the driver had the ability to control the charging of the battery based on what he knows about the road ahead. If he knows there is a long grade ahead, he could make sure the battery was charged before the grade. But then, with GPS mapping, maybe the car could “know” about the grade and “plan” charging accordingly.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:24 pm)#65 statik:
I’m really not concerned with this stuff. Just get me the !@#$%^ Volt, with the !@#$%^ OnStar if that’s what it takes, before it’s too
!@#$%^ late. Preferably before all of the potential customers buy a
!@#$%^ Honda Insight.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:26 pm)#69 noel park
I !@#$%^ agree.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:28 pm)#70 noel park
#65 statik: I’m really not concerned with this stuff. Just get me the !@#$%^ Volt, with the !@#$%^ OnStar if that’s what it takes, before it’s too
!@#$%^ late. Preferably before all of the potential customers buy a
!@#$%^ Honda Insight.
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Me either really. But it seemed on topic…and it has killed 1 of the remaining, oh 759+ days until production. (so thats something, lol)
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:29 pm)#50 N Riley:
My Fit is automatic. I test-drove the manual, and it was real nice. But my wife is automatic-only, so in the interest of family fleet flexibility I went auto. Besides, these days I do 90 percent of my driving in urban and dense suburban conditions; not the way I wanted my life to work out, but here I am…
That Honda Insight looks really, really nice! I wish I had been in a position to wait till April ’09.
Has your friend heard about the rumored Fit hybrid? Take my 40-ish MPG, then hybridize it… could have potential.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:29 pm)#66 Noel Park
“#64 N Riley:
Yeah, every time I see a picture of one of those !@#$%^ things I feel like someone just walked over my grave. Or GM’s anyway.”
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I know what you mean, Noel, but I don’t see the Prius or the Insight as being in the same ball game as the Volt. Direct competitors, yes. Ones that will certainly reduce sales for the Volt. But that is not Toyota’s or Honda’s fault. It is the fault of GM. As soon as GM can produce the Volt at a competitive price, the Volt will be in a better position to win sales. A good number of people, me included, will pay a few thousand dollars more for a Volt-like vehicle over a Prius/Insight-like vehicle. But in the meantime until the Volt comes out, Honda and Toyota are going to sell a lot of these two cars.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:31 pm)I thought the attempt to maintain 30% battery was to avoid deep discharge and therefore maintain battery longevity. We also know that the gas engine is being used to drive the car and not charge the batteries significantly above that 30%.
If GM cuts the gas when it knows you have enough battery to get home, by definintion they are eating up that 30%. Is that important for battery longevity or not? Which is it?
Maybe I am missing something, but I think GM needs to get their story straight and stop selling us pipedreams whenever it is convenient.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:34 pm)I wouldn’t want any kind of monthly fee subscriptions with my Volt. Am i really going to save 28.90 / month in fuel by mapping the “most efficient route” wherever i go? Gas right now is about $3.70, this subscription would cost 7.81 gallons of gas. At 50 miles to the gallon, that would be 391 miles a month. Would on-star’s “efficient” planning save me 391 miles of the Volt’s generator being ON per MONTH? I HIGHLY doubt it. Please don’t get carried away with this junk, GM. Who wants to pay 30 bucks a month to save 10 bucks a month? all in the name of efficiency!
I get the same feeling in my stomach when people talk about the “efficiency” of a 28.90 per month plan as i did when i saw the Xanadu video when there was a TV built in to the wall showing a video of a fireplace. It’s like “Really….?!”
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:35 pm)#72 Fahrvergnugen Fanboy
“Has your friend heard about the rumored Fit hybrid? Take my 40-ish MPG, then hybridize it… could have potential.”
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Not sure if he has heard about the Fit hybrid, but I bet he will. Good luck with your Fit. I have owned a number of Hondas and have loved them all. I am a Chevrolet man at heart, but a Honda man with my pocket book. Been hoping to change the pocket book thing, but with the price of the Volt going up and up, I may not be able to do it.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:40 pm)Black Volt –Black interior… allllll the options please. ASAP
As for milage ratings… I have done $ 900.00 in mods (air intake and exhaust) to my 07 MAXX and am averaging 29 MPG (Canadian) in town and 40 MPG (Canadian) on the highway… UP from the GM Sticker that Claimed 27 and 39 mpg (Canadian) (Combined 33 – 35 MPG Canadian ).. The cost is more than made up by the fuel savings…
Before doing the Mods.. 23 MPG in Town and 34 MPG Highway Canadian.
I just hope the car lasts till I get my Volt in 2012 ish ? Not sure on when they are getting to Central Alberta Canada..I have had it for just over a year and already have passed the 50,000 KM mark.
GM I have Deposit in Hand… Call me…
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:41 pm)#74 GXT
“Maybe I am missing something, but I think GM needs to get their story straight and stop selling us pipedreams whenever it is convenient.”
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I know what you mean, but we don’t yet know for sure if that will be the case. We have just heard some GM people mention somethings that may or may not come about. It is just pure speculation, I believe, at this point. We won’t know for sure until late 2010. Personally, I am not worrying about something that may not be a problem until I get more information. We can hope for more info from GM in the coming months leading up to start of production.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:46 pm)#63 The Grump Says: “You completely missed my point . The question is – What would the Volt do when the battery goes below 30% SOC, and there is NO gas in the tank ?”
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Oh, sorry. If there is no fuel in the tank, the 30% charge left in the battery allows you to go another 20 miles to get you to a filling station.
Note that running below 30% charge with no fuel in the tank on a regular basis would wear out the battery much faster, so GM will probably do some things to prevent this, such as:
1) When the fuel tank is empty, warning indicators would make noise constantly.
2) When the fuel tank is empty, the Volt would run in a “limp-along mode” with significantly reduced top speed and acceleration.
3) The Volt will store statistics for this in non-volatile memory. If they see you running a lot without fuel, your battery warranty would be void.
4) Any modifications to software will totally void the warranty.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (12:57 pm)#70 Aspherical”
My man! Thanks.
#71 statik:
I hear you. Or, if you watched “The Wire”, “I feel you”. I almost said something about filling in the 759+ days, but I’m trying to keep ‘em short.
#73 N Riley:
Yeah, that’s actually what I meant. GM snoozed and lost and gave these guys a 10 year head start on hybrids. Every Prius or Insight that gets sold is one more sale GM could have had.
Yesterday I even offered a “prayer” that GM should keep its head above water long enough until folks like you and me can actually pay a few thousand $ more for a Volt. When I get to the point of asking the Almighty to intervene, I don’t know what more I can do for Rick and Bob. Like the fella said, “There are no atheists in foxholes”.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (1:02 pm)#75 MikeD
I thought the exact same thing as you MikeD. Why spend $30 to save $10. But, OnStar delivers other value as well. The more GM can extract out of OnStar, the more total value it delivers to the customer, the more people will pay for it. I wouldn’t buy OnStar for the security, that’s what my cell phone is for. But combine security, nav, fuel savings, (the ability for the FBI to track me), and maybe I will.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (1:08 pm)Off-topic. The Economist had a short article on the automotive rescue/subsidy.
http://www.economist.com/business/displayStory.cfm?story_id=12341844&source=features_box2
Oct 2nd, 2008 (1:25 pm)Since you are purposefully asking for suggestions.
Being able to program a distance you are going would be nice. E.g. if I am doing a usual commute, for me to tell the car that’s what I’m doing and have it figure out how to optimize between the two plugs at the start and end. This could also be learned.
Similarly, If I know I am driving 1000 miles to visit relatives with no plug at the far end, tell the car that so it maximizes electric generation efficiency. E.g., possibly running the ICE the whole way at its most efficient point of operation. This could also allow better estimation of when fuel will be needed. Ideally, this would actually be pulled from a navigation system (which could also take into account types of roads and therefor expected speeds, liklyhood of stops, etc.)
Essentially this boils down to being able to instruct the computer in the intended drive, to allow it to control the car in accordance with that type of drive.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (1:41 pm)#80 noel park
Megadittos on your plea for an end to perjorative references to “geeks”, “tree huggers”, and sundry other slighting comments about “environmentalists.” We need an end to such divisive speech. Where will it end? If you drive a Volt, are you lumped in with environmentalists by judgemental people? People need to become more sophisticated if we are to advance. Most everybody is an “environmentalist,” to some extent. If you clean up after yourself, you are an environmentalist. Let’s build common ground instead of walls….I’ve got to recycle my soapbox now.
Also, “There are no foxiests in athholes”
Oct 2nd, 2008 (1:43 pm)#32 Dave G
“Could you ask GM if there is a second charge port underneath the car, as shown here?”
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I have wondered about that as well, and the best guess that I can come up with is that it is the location of the smart charging system.
It senses whether you have plugged into 110 or 220 volts, and charges the battery pack (the Volt’s battery will be 350 to 400 volts, I believe, so there may be some voltage transforming as well). It is probably similar to a conventional battery charger that you can buy for a 12 volt battery, with high amp draw initially, with a tapering rate as the battery comes to full charge.
Again, just my guess.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (1:53 pm)BillR Says: “I have wondered about that as well, and the best guess that I can come up with is that is the location of the smart charging system.
It senses whether you have plugged into 110 or 220 volts, and charges the battery pack, probably similar to a conventional battery charger that you can buy for a 12 volt battery.”
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Modern switching power supples automatically sense 110 vs 220 volts, this is not a big deal. In fact, old computer power supplies used to have a voltage switch, but those went away long ago.
My point is that the battery charger would probably be small, so I suspect it would be right next to the battery. Besides, if it is a charger, why locate it low on the chassis next to the front tire? the only advantage of that location I can figure is access from underneath.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (1:56 pm)N Riley Says: “I agree that some people here seem to go to the extreme in trying to not use a drop of gasoline… Let the Volt do what the Volt was designed to do… Sure that means you may have to put a few gallons of gas in your Volt once or twice a year.”
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I agree. In fact, I’ll go one further. We should stop talking about gasoline and start talking about “liquid fuel”. After all, the Volt is E85 capable.
Now people will start saying E85 is not available, but remember that the Volt is not available yet either. It will take a little while, but E85 will get there.
Specifically, Obama’s energy plan specifically calls for a mandate that all new cars are flex-fuel by 2012. McCain is less specific, but he backs bio-fuels as well. If we can get 30% of the cars on the road E85 capable, then most gas stations will start selling it.
As for production, there are companies right now that can make ethanol for as little as $1/gallon using switch grass, wood chips, old tires, etc. Using these sources, ethanol can replace up to 35% of our current gasoline consumption. See coskata.com for details. Note that GM is investing heavily in this company.
So there definitely are viable ways to make E85. It’s only corn ethanol makes no sense.
We will never be oil independent without bio-fuels. The energy density of liquid fuels is far superior to batteries or ultra-capacitors. Ulf Bossel is a physicist and fuel cell expert. He recently did a study on various alternative energy proposals. His conclusions:
• Electric cars are far superior to Diesel or hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
• Heavy duty and long distance transport by land, air and sea will be powered by “the last drops of oil” or hydrocarbon bio-fuels.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (2:00 pm)#81 Cautious Fan
I understand your position. I agree that it’s a good value that GM is including this extra stuff that on-star can do in order to maximize the useability of on-star as a whole. But you say on-star delivers a combined security, fuel savings, and nav. and the ability of the FBI to track you. 4 things. You say your cell phone is all you need for security, and i agree, that takes away 1. The fuel savings would be $10 of the $30 that you spent, so what do you have left? Paying $20 a month for navigation (something that doesn’t normally have monthly fees associated with it at all) and for the ability of the FBI to track you.
If paying a net $20 a month for those two things is a deal to someone, more power to them! I’m not interested though.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (2:04 pm)Some of these ideas have been suggested in earlier posts. I still think OnStar is not needed for a simpler solution. Yes OnStar could be used for more advanced features, but have the ability to select let say Local or Trip could allow the computer to use the normal programing as it has been stated for Local use or in Trip the Volt would not use up the battery and reserve it for speeds under 50 MPH. Assuming that high way speeds would be used on a trip it also assume distances greater then 40 miles. In a slightly more advance Trip method one could enter the distance expected to travel and the Volt would use the battery in the most efficient way to maximize ICE MPG.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (2:11 pm)“Blue sceen of death” rings any bell? Or wosrt you can hear or see this on the Volt’s console: “Your car has just been hacked or hijacked. please exit immediately before its battery explodes!”
Any news on what kind of computer OS (operating system) the Volt will be using?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (2:23 pm)#90 Hoang
““Blue sceen of death” rings any bell?”
Calling Onstar:
Me: I have a “blue screen” on my Volt display!!! How the f*** did that happen?
Onstar: Calm down sir…
Me: Ok, ok. How do I fix it then?
Onstar: Did you reboot?
Me: (rampage)
Oct 2nd, 2008 (2:44 pm)#83 whynot
You made some pretty interesting points. Let’s keep thinking along those lines and see what others think. Being able to communicate with the vehicle to inform it of the type of drive you are about to go on would be good. Maybe the computer could have several selectable modes. One for around town for commutes and shopping. Another for trips out in the country, but less than 100 miles. Then another for longer distances over 100 miles like when you expect to driver across several states to visit Aunt Sally. The computer could optimize the battery charging and run the ICE more as needed so you arrive with a pretty well charged battery.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (2:52 pm)#87 DaveG
I knew when I used the word “gasoline” that I should have used the word “fuel”. I did not intend to imply my support for only using gasoline in any ICE whether in the Volt of any other vehicle or engine. That fuel could also be natural gas, or butane, etc…….
Oct 2nd, 2008 (2:56 pm)“So since GM is still working out ideas to use OnStar to maximize electric-only driving, do you have any suggestions to share?”
Yes, give those of us who don’t want OnStar the option of having it removed at the factory (i.e. not installed). Failing that, give us the ability to turn it completely off. There are enough of us out here that don’t want OnStar to make those options feasible.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (3:02 pm)I still say it is way too early to say what GM intends to do with OnStar in the Volt. I hope, as well as I am sure everyone of you do, that GM will be forth coming on that subject well before the Volt and its programming get set in stone. Some of us are certainly going to accept what GM does and some of us will want to take a maul to the stone. I am sure you could find references in technical manuals that would identify the OnStar module or wiring and snip it in the bud. Of course, that would probably void your vehicle’s warranty. The best course for all of us is to get GM to communicate its plans and be willing to modify them based on feed-back from us and others like us.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (3:04 pm)#84 ThombDbhomb:
Thanks. Amen.
I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings, but I would say that anyone who is commenting here is an “environmentalist” at the end of the day. This is the type of technology and thinking which is going to save the planet, if indeed it can be saved. Anyone who is far enough ahead of the curve to be participating here is adding significantly the possibility of that salvation, IMHO. So there!
Oct 2nd, 2008 (3:05 pm)I was one of those who got caught in the analog to digital conversion of OnStar. My 03 Acura has the analog-only version, so at the beginning of this year, it stopped working when they switched to digital only. It’s annoying that they didn’t provide an upgrade path. How hard could it be?
That said, I’d probably still get OnStar again. I liked having the basic package as a kind of safety net. Air-bag deployment notification, emergency assistance with a single button push, stolen car tracking, remote door unlock were all nice features to have.
The $199 per year price is steep though. I don’t see how the service is that expensive to maintain. My guess is that they are heavily subsidizing the cost of the hardware by raising the service cost. I think they would get a lot more customers if they lowered the price a bit.
Two things that would be deal-breakers for me would be if the nav system relied on OnStar to function or if the car didn’t have bluetooth integration (forcing you to use OnStar for hands-free calling). The analog system in my Acura worked fine for hands-free calling, but it was terribly expensive. I want to use my regular mobile phone most of the time. I’d probably still buy a few min of OnStar calling airtime a year so I could make a quick call if I forgot my regular mobile phone or wanted to use Virtual Advisor to check the weather or traffic.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (3:06 pm)The car should definately be able to connect to my home network via wifi. It could just expose itself as a network drive and a small web site that exposes statistics about the car.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (3:11 pm)Perhaps the Volt could use Onstar or any GPS to establish the vehicle position and then record the the vehicles relevant parameters.
It builds up knowledge of the path and then gives friendly advice on your driving habits.
A little like Hal on Kubricks ’2001 A Space Odessey.”
I need another cup of coffee……
Oct 2nd, 2008 (3:21 pm)#96 noel park Says: “I don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings, but I would say that anyone who is commenting here is an “environmentalist” at the end of the day. This is the type of technology and thinking which is going to save the planet,…”
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There are 4 reasons to buy the Volt.
1) To reduce the threat of terrorism by reducing foreign oil imports.
2) To help our economy by reducing foreign oil imports.
3) To save the planet.
4) To buy something really high-tech and cool.
So being an environmentalist is only 1 out of 4…
Oct 2nd, 2008 (3:25 pm)I’m of two minds about this. In the first case, I don’t like the idea of something like OnStar, both from the standpoint of having to pay a monthly subscription for what is, essentially, a “captive” service, as well as from the privacy concerns others have mentioned.
In the second case, I do see a place for efficiency management, but not as stated:
Assuming that Electricity is more efficient in the City than on the Highway, and Gas is more efficient on the Highway than in the City (due more to a speed difference than from starts and stops), why not have a mode where the Volt switches the range-extender on whenver you get on a limited-access highway (which it would be able to tell via GPS) in order to save the electricity for later?
Even here, this could be achieved more simply with a speed/time calculation, or just the ability to turn the ICE on manually.
I hope that the Volt does not become OnStar dependent. That would be a deal breaker.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (3:43 pm)Very exciting stuff! I bet someone will hack the system at some point being this car is more about software and less about the engine. Imagine some talented programmers writing “skins” for the interface and letting you download it to the car. Analog gauges and other cool interfaces.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (3:45 pm)noel park
ThombDhomb:
One of the most significant things about the gm-volt site is that many different kinds of people with many aims and points of view are willing to cooperate constructively for the sake of one thing: the Volt. To suggest that only one aim or view is the “primary” or “obvious” one is to deprecate the remaining views almost as vividly and inappropriately as name-calling. In fact, I would say that name-calling is less offensive.
If I get a vehicle that helps get us off of foreign oil, and is leading-edge technology, you will get your environmental “save the Earth” car, too (even if you could care less about foriegn oil, or technology).
One of the reasons environmentalists lead the pack in the number of names they get called is their tendency to plant the green flag in whatever issue they find, and claim it for the purpose of SAVING THE PLANET. There often seems a disconnect between this and the idea that any other viewpoint might have equal, or even greater credibility and status.
The Volt is worth doing if any one of these different aims and points of view turns out to be utterly false. Likewise, we don’t know if a point of view expressed here will end up being the most “obvious” or “primary” one; so let’s continue to take our places side-by-side and try not to take philosophical ownership of the Volt — or call each other names.
I have tried to reign in my own tendencies to do this over the past couple of months, and I hope it’s helped.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (3:59 pm)#101 Jackson
“I hope that the Volt does not become OnStar dependent. That would be a deal breaker.”
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This has been stated by several people today and I can certainly understand its logic. I don’t want the Volt to be dependent on OnStar unless the service is included free or has levels of service offered from day one. Level 1 – No OnStar service. Level 2 – OnStar provides vehicle management capabilities at a very low cost (ie: less than $10 /mo). Level 3 – OnStar service with a selectable menu of services for the starting price of $10 /mo with each menu item selected priced where you could decide if it was worth the coverage.
I personally think the OnStar service is a good thing, but it does cost too much. I am not really worried about it “tracking” my movements. I don’t go somewhere I would be ashamed of others knowing about, in the first place. I do realize it is a little more complicated (privacy, that is) than my previous statement my have implied. But, I do think this idea of privacy is a little over blown today. When you are out and about in public, you have no total privacy. You are in the public eye and what you do is viewable by the “public”. I know that I am going to get some responses from the other end of the spectrum, but that is my opinion and I know others have their opinion. I stand by mine and I agree you have a right to yours. Let me say that now, not later.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:01 pm)Statik needs to cancel his Insight and get this new electric Nissan city car:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show–events/Paris-Motor-Show/2008/Nissan-at-the-Paris-motor-show-2008/
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:04 pm)As others point out this ALL can be accomplished with regular GPS nav. What does become an issue is OnStar tracking when not needed. I would suggest that the subscriber to OnStar be given a choice to set the default to OFF. i.e. You don’t turn tracking, etc. ON until you actually need it. This would prevent unnecessary tracking the same as cell phones that let you turn off the GPS feature.
The real value of OnStar in a Volt would be trained Operators/Technicians who know the specifics of Volt operation and can provide immediate, live, solutions to customer concerns. To that end, some people would welcome an on-call consultant for their high tech vehicle – something like 800# help desks for computer makers.
None the less, GM is to be lauded for thinking along the lines of doing all it can to help customers get the most from their Volt and to make it a positive experience that will lower our reliance on foreign oil.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:16 pm)#63 The Grump Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 11:18 am
The posters here are always griping about how the Volt should be a pure BEV like the EV1. No gas in the tank is a sure way to turn the Volt into an a BEV – The Volt cannot burn what it doesn’t have. If I can think of this, someone is surely going to try it, to max their BEV range.
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My guess is, like a normal car, the Volt simply won’t run without gas. For example, one of the things the volt does in cold weather is it uses the ICE to warm the battery. If it can’t bring the battery to normal temperature, it probably won’t run in electric mode.
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#47 Jack – Maybe so, but you know someone is gonna try it. Think about this – 50 % of the battery gets you 40 miles. Therefore, 30% SOC should be good for three fifths’s of that – 40 miles divided by 5, times 3 = roughly 24 extra miles. With no gas, the Volt would use the battery only. There’s enough OPEC haters here, that someone’s going to try it – 64 miles on batteries is just too tempting. I never said it was wise, or smart.
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Grump, your math is incorrect. The Volt travels 40 miles on 70% of its charge, which means that the Volt travels an average of 4 miles on 7% of the charge. If you run the battery from 30% to 10%, this will obtain an additional 11.4 miles for 51.4 miles, not 64 as asserted.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:16 pm)The cost of OnStar should be automatically included in the cost of the Volt itself. Just like BMW automatically includes dealer service in the cost of the vehicle. This should not be optional because this tracking is vital to the optimal performance of the Volt in real world conditions. OnStar should be so coupled with the Volt electronics that it should not even show up as a separate line-item on the sticker. Anyone who thinks they could out perform OnStar efficiency is in lala land.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:21 pm)Fahrvergnugen Fanboy:
Please keep us informed about your experiences with the Honda. If my Saturn dies with no Cruise or Volt available, I may get one of those in a Fit of outrage.
Yes, as a matter of fact I did copy and paste your name, how did you know?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:23 pm)I hope GM is keeping a running database of each trip made by every Volt. That way they can gain valuable insight into driving characteristics of this car and create a rules-based engine to optimize future generations of electric vehicles. I want every Volt monitored extensively. OnStar really is not needed for this type of tracking. It can be stored locally in memory and then dumped whenever taken to the dealer service department.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:25 pm)32, 86 Dave G and 85 BillR…….
“Lyle,
Could you ask GM if there is a second charge port underneath the car, as shown here?
http://media.gm.com/volt/images/propulsion.jpg
Is GM working on some type of automatic charge docking system for your garage?”
———————————————————————————————————————————-
Lyle,
I raised this same question several days ago so would like to add my suggestion to those of Dave G & BillR to ask GM what this is???
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:29 pm)If the planet is cooling as some report, not warming, would we still want the Volt? Indubitably.
OnStar should be a pay as you go service.
Difficult to imagine much benefit from plotting courses based upon elevations…. Eventually you must return to your starting elevation and will get paid back with the potential energy gain from going up a hill – just a matter of some losses lost. How you like that pun?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:34 pm)The Grump
I haven’t seen you in a while. Have you been vacationing?
Orlando perhaps?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:36 pm)Onstar is an interesting idea.
I can see why people don’t want to pay for it though.
Does it have a pay-as-you-go plan? That may help.
The $199 year subscription is way cheaper than my cable bill, my phone bill, electric bill, etc. But it is still another bill, isn’t it.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:36 pm)I have a $10 keychain flash drive that has a complete self-contained web server that runs from it when I plug it into my netbook. There is no reason why the Volt could not have a fully built-in wifi + web server for less than ten bucks. Then the owner could use any web browser via phone, pda, notebook, pc, etc to get statistics from the vehicle. Adding OnStar would just add more valuable data for the owner and GM to use. As far as a monthly fee, I would prefer a one-time up front lifetime fee, like some satellite radio companies used to offer.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:38 pm)I didn’t comment on the Environmentalists being Anti-American.
I didn’t because it doesn’t make any sense. I am pro American and I care about the environment. I think the comment was just plain ignorant.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:41 pm)#107 D"Artagnon,
First, the ICE only comes on to warm the battery in extreme cold weather, like -40°F.
Second, the battery only swings 50% (between 30% and 80%):
http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/29/latest-chevy-volt-battery-pack-and-generator-details-and-clarifications/
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:44 pm)Re: OnStar……
People “thrashing” OnStar here have neglected two important factors:
1) Unless the NAV system is integrated with the Volt’s control systems it will not be able to accomplish many of the actions discussed here
2) External NAV systems (you buy it & install it on the dash/windshield) will therefore be of no value in regard to the actions item 1 refers to
3) Based on my personal experience with GPS/NAV systems (3 others, including one in my boat) as well as with OnStar, none of my other 3 GPS/NAV systems work as well or as easily as OnStar!!!
4) Opting for the Volt’s NAV system separate from OnStar could cost you about $2,500 more for a limited, obsolescent-prone system, while OnStar is FREE (comes in the car) and is kept at the state-of-the-art for years
5) I personally prefer to pay for a service I’m using monthly (like I pay for cell phone service) instead of in a big lump sum when I buy the car
/I’m just sayin’ think about it
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:45 pm)OnStar Rocks. Driving untethered is driving unsafe.
OnStar can protect you and your loved ones in sooo many ways. I hope the Volt comes with OnStar, I don’t feel safe unless I have it. It has proved invaluable in my current stable of Chevy and Cadillac vehicles. I don’t leave home without it. Ride Safe.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:53 pm)OnStar should be an option ONLY.
If GM/Onstar wants to offer “nice to have ” options, it is fine. However, it should not be a requirement to operate the vehicle.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:54 pm)The latest generation of OnStar is amazing.
If you purchase the “Collision Avoidance Option 2″ it will automatically prevent rear-end collision if you happen to be following too closely and the driver in front of you decides to lockup his brakes. Be aware: This option is only available if you choose four-wheel ABS for your vehicle. Having OnStar control my emergency braking has reduced my blood pressure 10 points when I am behind the wheel.
Yes, it’s that good.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:54 pm)#118 nasaman
You actually pay for the hardware when you purchase a GM vehicle with it installed whether you subscribe to the monthly service or not. GM passes the hardware cost on to the consumer and everyone who buys the GM vehicle pays for it.
I like the OnStar concept, although I have yet to own a vehicle with it installed. I am only concerned with the cost/benefit analysis of it. GM needs to prove their case. I agree it would seem that much of what GM has talked about doing with the Volt would require OnStar service. It is possible GM may do some or all of the necessary things without a monthly service contract. The hardware will be there, so why not use it to do management of the car’s system. If the consumer wants other “normal” OnStar features (as in today’s vehicles) they can subscribe.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (4:59 pm)#58 noel park Says: “Finally, can we PLEASE have a few less references to “geeks”, “tree huggers”, and sundry other slighting comments about “environmentalists”?”
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Definition: geek [ geek ] (plural geeks)
noun
Somebody who is a proud or enthusiastic user of computers or other technology, sometimes to an excessive degree ( informal )
Dictionary: tree-hugger (trē’hŭg’ər)
n. Informal.
An environmentalist, especially one who supports the preservation of forested land and the restriction of logging.
Are we not allowed to use informal language?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:06 pm)Last time I checked OnStar only offered hands-free voice calling. I need hands-free texting while I drive. Texting is my preferred choice of communication while mobile. I currently use a one-handed texting phone (the other hand is on the wheel) and my thumb is about totally worn out.
I am currently looking at some bluetooth keyboards for my phone so I can get some thumb relief.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:11 pm)#118 nasaman Says: “5) I personally prefer to pay for a service I’m using monthly (like I pay for cell phone service) instead of in a big lump sum when I buy the car”
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I’m just the opposite. Monthly payments tend to hide the true cost of things. If I can’t afford to pay upfront, I shouldn’t be buying it.
But hey, we’re all different. If we were all the same, think how boring that would be…
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:12 pm)nasaman #118
If the price of the Volt doesn’t shock potential buyers enough, additional monthly fees to operate the car will certainly ice the cake. I has to be an option, and if other manufacturers develop their own, competition may eventually make this free. I can imagine the earliest days of consumer GPS when there were basically 2 manufacturers, the climate was ripe for monthly fee service. Now? Forget it.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:13 pm)OnStar tracking my silent moves makes me nervous. I will be jamming that wave guide when I get my totally blacked out Volt.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:16 pm)I hate how GM tries to force onstar on you. That has been a big deterant from buying a GM for myself.
Onstar DOES NOT work with the police if your car is stolen (have been a 911 all taker & police dispatcher for 3 years. LoJack DOES! All those commercials you hear with police, or parametics are just as good as calling 911 yourself (or one of the many passerbys that have a cell phone). LoJack skips all the 911 operators and goes straight ot the dispatchers and patrol. LoJack is faster and if someone is moving in your car (carjacked or stalen), they will follow. That don’t happen in many jurisdictions where you have OnStar and the car has to be stationary to dispatch.
I have LoJack, a GPS I bought from Best Buy and my cell phone. Why the hell do I need to downgrade and add an expensive monthly service that is nothing better than a plain GPS you can by for $150?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:19 pm)122 N Riley…… You said, “#118 nasaman ….You actually pay for the hardware when you purchase a GM vehicle with it installed whether you subscribe to the monthly service or not.* GM passes the hardware cost on to the consumer and everyone who buys the GM vehicle pays for it.”
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You’re right! My point was that you’ll GET all the OnStar hardware, including any internal connections to the Volt’s control systems, whether you want it or not, with the vehicle purchase. My other main points were that OnStar is the best of the many GPS/NAV systems I’ve ever used and that you pay for its use as you use it, rather than as a large added-option payment of maybe $2,500 added to the cost of your Volt. To me, OnStar is FAR preferable to any of the many other GPS/NAV systems I’ve used.
*The only way to NOT get OnStar hardware in your Volt is not buy a Volt! Deal with it.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:23 pm)Monthly OnStar fees will scare off some potential customers. Just add it into the price of the vehicle as a hidden upfront cost. The owners don’t need to know how GM covers these operating costs.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:26 pm)Haywood Jabuzov Says
“Monthly OnStar fees will scare off some potential customers. Just add it into the price of the vehicle as a hidden upfront cost. The owners don’t need to know how GM covers these operating costs.”
No, but I can tell you why I have not bought a Malibu or Impala.
It starts with Onstar and Chevy’s bloated upfront price of the car. Both are about $4-6 thousand more than they should be.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:40 pm)If GM intends to use OnStar to increase fuel efficiency of their vehicles than I think this qualifies under that $25 billion-dollar slush fund. Why don’t they use part of that money to just offer OnStar for free on all GM cars.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:41 pm)One more thing concerning operational features of the Volt. I’ve been asking here (and at GM sites) for months if the Volt’s regenerative braking system will ALSO employ what I’ll call “deceleration recharging”, which occurs when the accelerator is released (but before the brakes are applied) as a means of reducing the battery drain (fuel consumed) still more — particularly on long trips and open highways?
I just got the answer from a post by a GM guy who said, “As you apply the brakes or gently coast, the Vue’s hybrid system captures the vehicle’s kinetic energy and stores it in the hybrid battery.”* Although this was in response to my comments on a Saturn site operated by GM about the upcoming 2 Mode (& 2 Mode Plug-in) Vues, I’m sure GM’s electric drive train group has also included “deceleration recharging” in the Volt.
*Source: http://imsaturn.com/profiles/blog/show?id=2033334%3ABlogPost%3A57242#comments
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:48 pm)JS1219 #128
” I hate how GM tries to force onstar on you. That has been a big deterant from buying a GM for myself.”
*** *** ***
Every year it seems there are fewer and fewer products you can buy outright and not be married to some sort of monthly service fee. I’m seeing this in all walks of business, some even reducing the cost of hardware, or giving it away in order to marry you to a service contract. I sure hope this doesn’t happen with the Volt. I’m not as concerned with the Onstar HW built into the cost of the vehicle as I am about the Volt being un-driveable w/o an Onstar service contract.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:50 pm)I wish GM would drastically slash the price of the Volt and just allow a monthly fee for that humongous 400 pound battery pack that I will be upgrading later anyways. And include the OnStar fee with the battery fee. This would make the walkout price of the Volt below $30K and attract more buyers. Avoid sticker shock at all cost. This is what Apple did with the iPhone 3G, lower upfront cost even though in the long run you actually pay MORE. The customer never visualizes future costs, just look at that mortgage mess after those Adjustable Rates started kicking in.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (5:58 pm)I’ll take my volt without onstar. Don’t even put it in. Seriously.
I’ll buy a competitor e-rev if I have to. Same with satellite radio.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:01 pm)canehdian
That has been my stance. I also believe a competitor will offer more than 40 miles and be in a midsized car. First to get 2 of the 3 has my money.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:10 pm)GM could use OnStar to safely guide the driver to the nearest authorized GM Rapid Charge Station when you drain that battery to an alert level. It would still be cheaper to rapid-charge than to switch to gas, but it would be your choice depending on time/location. But the point is that OnStar would assist. Your OnStar buddy will become your BFF.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:17 pm)I have been using OnStar for more than 2 years. I cannot live without this option. Its for the children’s safety not mine.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:22 pm)I would add two features related to traffic conditions:
First – The route advised by OnStar when in “most efficient route” mode should take in to account traffic conditions. In other words whether or not the vehicle would be in stop and go or steady speed conditions.
Second – The energy generation should also take in to account the traffic conditions of the current route. So the OnStar traffic information should trigger the on board charging profile to determine the best energy profile for stop and go or constant speed conditions.
Based on the route the energy profile should predict energy requirements. Such as a steep down grade ahead of the vehicle instead of utilizing the generator prematurely.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:26 pm)I am sure GM is going to find new ways to leverage OnStar to maximize the Volt’s full potential. I can see some kind of relationship between OnStar and the power grid that could help drivers. Maybe OnStar could actually control parts of the nation’s grid so that all their EVs could benefit from an alliance. OnStar could probably manage it better than Enron did.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:35 pm)I don’t quite understand why OnStar is more safe than a cell phone.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:39 pm)I would like a one-way discharge cable please that allows me to take the charge from a parked Volt and add to my Volt. OnStar could assist me in this endeavor by providing me the location and charge-level of all nearby Volts for my charging pleasure. This is the great way to apply a new technology. I would be happy to pay a monthly fee for such a service. Better than a siphon and hose for sure.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:50 pm)#130 Haywood Jabuzov:
Are you any relation to Pikop Andropov?
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:50 pm)142 comments later….
Let’s just get going – build the VOLT! When it arrives, if you don’t want OnStar, just sign off that you don’t want it and it won’t be activated. If you do, sign on and take the free one year trial.
Like it or not, OnStar is a way to keep current technology in your vehicle. Mapping software is updated remotely, as is a host of other support hardware. You simply have a receiver and transmitter in your vehicle. Much better than a system that become obsolete in a year or two.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:50 pm)#142 Rashiid Amul
OnStar is more than a Cell Phone. It is tied into the PCM of the car. It can do things like unlock your doors and order a pizza (lame joke).
Oct 2nd, 2008 (6:58 pm)Actually, OnStar is part safety device. I think it can automatically sense when airbag deployed and then notify help without user intervention. Suppose you where drunk, lacking insulin, disabled etc. and couldn’t respond in a timely manner, this could be a life saver.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:08 pm)In two years OnStar should be able to autopilot my Volt. This includes locating nearest empty parking space and doing the actual parking. Nice.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:08 pm)Jerry Attrick #146
“OnStar is more than a Cell Phone. It is tied into the PCM of the car. It can do things like unlock your doors and order a pizza (lame joke)”
*** *** ***
It is tied to the PCM and can do diags etc. But Rashiid makes a good point because for safety it still doesn’t work where there is no Verizon or cell coverage.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:24 pm)OnStar is absolutely essential to the success of the Volt. You want to keep a vital link to your maker. He knows what is best for your vehicle. I am sure OnStar will have special enhancements for EVs that cannot be obtained anywhere else. If you want the absolute best performance from your Volt you must get the OnStar. You can thank me later. Hopefully, it will be required and thanks won’t be necessary.
Bif
Oct 2nd, 2008 (7:48 pm)I couldn’t resist…
BlondeStar.. http://garfwod.250free.com/blondestar.mp3
no plug =D~ no sale
Oct 2nd, 2008 (8:02 pm)#105 DonC
Statik needs to cancel his Insight and get this new electric Nissan city car:
http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Search-Results/Motor-show–events/Paris-Motor-Show/2008/Nissan-at-the-Paris-motor-show-2008/
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Just what kind of techno-nerd do you think I am? lol. I catch enough grief in my SMART tdi, hehe.
And there is this chestnut to go with, “This cool little city car’s name literally translates as ‘new view’ and it’s Nissan’s view of urban transportation in 2015″
Oct 2nd, 2008 (9:49 pm)Regarding an automatic plug-in I think that would be a no starter. It would have to be under the car or in front of it and hitting it would be a very fine skill set for the driver. The car would have to park itself. What about snow and salt under the car and moisture at the contact points. I wouldn’t want to come in on a wet 240 volt plug. Zap, What about people with no garage?
If GM is thinking about this-stop wasting your time! I don’t know many drivers talented enough to hit this plug dead on. If you can’t plug the darn thing in you shuldn’t be driving anywhere.
I would like to see the control system allow you to input your electricity rate and keep track of you electric cost.
Oct 2nd, 2008 (11:02 pm)#153 Paul A. Says: “Regarding an automatic plug-in I think that would be a no starter. It would have to be under the car or in front of it and hitting it would be a very fine skill set for the driver. The car would have to park itself. What about snow and salt under the car and moisture at the contact points. I wouldn’t want to come in on a wet 240 volt plug. Zap, What about people with no garage?”
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From the picture here:
http://media.gm.com/volt/images/propulsion.jpg
it appears there is another charging port that can be accessed from under the car just in front of the driver’s side front tire. The tire would presumably guide the car into a specially designed charge docking mechanism. The docking mechanism would then extend up under the car, move back a cover plate on the charging port, then automatically self-align and engage the 110v or 220v metal power connections. Obviously, the docking mechanism would only be useful for people who park their Volt in a garage or other enclosed private structure, so the docking mechanism would be sold as an option.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (12:00 am)#5 is right on (with a caveat).
I’ve been saying this for a while now. The Volt should ask you where you’re going. “Usual commute” should mean something to the car. It’s different than “Going to Aunt Milly’s.” I’m being a bit factitious about the voice commands. It could be a typical GPS touch screen entry device without the crazy monthly fees.
The key thing is, if, at the start of the trip to Aunt Milly’s you are at the entrance to the freeway, and that the first 200 miles of the trip are on the freeway, and Aunt Milly lives 20 miles deep in a city area, then the Volt should AUTOMATICALLY plan to use the EV mode at the urban center, and run the ICE on the highway. Minimize carbon or maximize EV range – either way.
Of course, they shouldn’t wait to get this on the first version of the car. Get the damn car out ASAP. Wait for this in some future spiral.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (12:08 am)#103 Jackson
If you read my comment (#84) a second time, you might notice that I didn’t, “…suggest that only one aim or view is the “primary” or ‘obvious’ one…” I only asked that divisive name-calling stop. I think you completely missed my point.
Apology accepted in advance.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (12:15 am)#123 Dave G
I prefer formal language, like you are “gay” (not that there’s anything wrong with that – Seinfeld)
Definition: gay
adjective
Showing or characterized by cheerfulness and lighthearted excitement; merry.
But you can be informal if you like. My point is, some people use a terms derisively. You know who you are.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (4:59 am)Kyle #155 has a good point.
Yes, advanced features are nice to have. But first….
Let’s work on getting a reliable model out. So far the recharge (ICE)engine is worked out at a 1.4L 4 cylinder. The battery is in intense test mode with a good showing thus far. The wheels are chosen to be low roll res 17″. The interior is 90% worked out. The low drag R&D exterior is complete with a decent midsize family sport design being the final choice. The final HP rating of the electric drive is worked out at 150HP. The driver side charge port is the final design for the first model year of the Volt. And the Michigan manufacturing facility is currently being outfitted. A government rebate plan is worked out. And we even have a working waiting list which may have some bearing on distribution.
I would feel it proper for GM to email all on the waiting list and run a price by us. This would be an “employee” price as we would feed unbiased feedback to GM. We would in effect be working for the GM R&D department as unpaid testers for a time period, perhaps 6 months. All shortcomings (if any) would be handled internally without public media and/or hostile test firms. This is a win-win for everyone.
no plug =D~ no sale
Oct 3rd, 2008 (8:04 am)I am very happy to see all the discussion of various suggested features. I am also sure that GM is reading our posts, so keep it coming. As for OnStar I would hope that GM would give first time Volt buyers the service for free for at least the life of the warranty as thank you and a source of improved services from GM. It might also be wise to offer free regular service for at least the first three years or for the warranty period. I think this would be a wise move for GM to do this for at least the first year for such a radical new car.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (8:32 am)ThomDbhomb (#156):
It’s clear you’ve missed my point. My response at #103 is not solely based on your immediately previous comment. I’ve watched these threads for a long time, and I’ve seen requests made repeatedly for sensitivity by people who seem unwilling to extend it.
The hubris and arrogance of environmental intelligensia is matched only by the disconnect which refuses to accept even a hint of resistance to that viewpoint; that is the main thing that’s “obvious” to me.
You are in an open forum, where viewpoints are going to differ. I put it as nicely as I could, before. Let true scientific debate settle the question about who is right about climate change. Don’t try to set the tone of every forum to favor your opinion by invoking thin skin. If you really believe what you believe, you should be willing to grow a few callouses.
Don’t demand respect, earn it.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (9:07 am)#160 Jackson
So, instead of what I actually said, you are responding to some vague, unspecified thing I said in the past? Although you espouse the scientific method, you are displaying bias, not reason. Is a call for civility really the same thing as being thin-skinned? I always hoped an open forum included respect and civility.
How does my plea for less name-calling set the tone to favor my opinion (note: I didn’t offer an opinion, I only asked that name-calling cease)? If you really believe what you believe, you should be willing to grow a few brain cells.
Don’t bully for respect, finesse it.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (10:25 am)#117 Dave G Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 4:41 pm
#107 D”Artagnon,
First, the ICE only comes on to warm the battery in extreme cold weather, like -40°F.
Second, the battery only swings 50% (between 30% and 80%):
http://gm-volt.com/2007/08/29/latest-chevy-volt-battery-pack-and-generator-details-and-clarifications/
________________________________________
Dave, where do you get that the ICE only comes to warm the battery on at -40F (or C)?
What I said in my post is that the ICE warms the battery in cold weather, which if you understand lithium ion chemistry, is absolutely necessary.
Secondly, I never suggested that the battery did anything but swing between 30 and 80% charge; quite the contrary, I suggested that the car might not run on zero gas below 30% charge. GM’s engineers are smart enough to recognize that deliberately running the battery below 30% will adversely affect battery life, and thereby affect the warranty.
Best regards,
D’Artagnon
Oct 3rd, 2008 (10:36 am)OnStart sucks, it is a very overpriced service for what you get. I would rather they leverage xm/sirius, which offers the realtime traffic, weather, stock, sports info and have that displayed on the screen.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (12:44 pm)I hate ONstar, it is an overpriced feature that is used to scare people into buying it. Every commercial for it makes the ignorant think they will die if they do not have it.
If it wasn’t such a ridiculously overpriced system, I would love to use it, or if they woke up and made it compatable with existing handsets for making cellular calls, then I would use it. VW & Audi have a small cradle in their cars where you can sync your phone in them and then fully use your cell phone plan to talk in the car with the wonderful built in speakerphone.
If GM ever did something like this, I would be all for it.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (1:32 pm)#162 D’Artagnon Says:” Dave, where do you get that the ICE only comes to warm the battery on at -40F (or C)?
Secondly, I never suggested that the battery did anything but swing between 30 and 80% charge;”
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The -40°F number comes from Bob Lutz here:
http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/27/bob-lutz-on-chevy-volt-battery-tests-cold-starts-and-use-of-onstar/
Also, the CEO of Compact Power tends to discount the cold issue with their battery technology here:
http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/08/ceo-of-compact-power-on-the-current-status-of-chevy-volt-battery-pack-development-and-thermal-management/
As for battery swing, your comment in post #107:
“The Volt travels 40 miles on 70% of its charge”
led me to believe you were unaware of the 30/80 swing issue, since the Volt actually travels 40 miles on 50% of its charge.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (1:39 pm)#160 Jackson says: “Let true scientific debate settle the question about who is right about climate change.”
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Global warming is getting to be like religion. People either believe it or they don’t. Arguing about it doesn’t help anything.
I happen to believe global warming is real, and that it’s man-made, so I’ll put myself in that camp. But other people believe differently, and I respect them for that.
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#161 ThombDbhomb Says: “How does my plea for less name-calling set the tone to favor my opinion…”
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Sorry if any of my previous comments were perceived as name-calling.
I think people are getting too sensitive about this. It’s supposed to be all in fun. The difference between someone laughing at me and someone laughing with with is often whether or not I can laugh at myself…
So let’s all be gay (cheerful, lighthearted, merry).
Oct 3rd, 2008 (3:21 pm)#123 & #166 Dave G & #101 & #160 Jackson:
So, if you call me a “geek”, or a “tree hugger”, it’s actually a cheerful, lighthearted, merry compliment, right? Who knew? There I go again, dumb old thin skinned me. Gee thanks.
When I call someone an “environmentalist”, I absolutely mean it as a compliment. So here we are complimenting each other and not understanding it. What a world.
#`61 ThombDbhomb:
Thanks again. I keep telling my self it’s the blogosphere and not to dignify this stuff with a response, but sometimes I’m not even smart enough to take my own advice.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (3:54 pm)#88 MikeD
I won’t pay for OnStar either, but that’s fine. One other benefit. OnStar calls automatically if you’re in an accident. That’s pretty nice. And unlocking your doors.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (6:18 pm)#167 noel park,
To be clear, I wasn’t calling anyone names. If anything, I was speaking about myself as much as anyone else. I find it odd that there was such a strong reaction.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (6:34 pm)#169 Dave G:
Thanks for your charming comment. If I over reacted, I’m sorry. Actually, I agree with you about 90+% of the time. Somebody, I think either you or Jackson, commented above about one of the strengths of GM-Volt.com being the way that people come to the Volt from many different directions, and yet find common ground around the Volt. Very true.
Best regards and thanks again.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (9:38 pm)Some very interesting viewpoints above – and a few by folks who seem to be off their meds this week.
It looks like the car’s operation could be maximized with something like an OnStar link. Next best would be a GPS system which would plan charging based on the drivers inputs – like destination. A simpler but less efficient method would be to allow the driver to set the general charging parameters, like “maximize charging” or “minimize charging”", but it might be called “long distance drive” or “short distance drive” instead.
My guess is that GM will probably push the more “automatic” systems, like the OnStar. Most Americans do not like to think or make decisions. That’s also the reason an automatic charging hook-up may be a good feature from a marketing viewpoint.
Oct 3rd, 2008 (11:37 pm)While still plugged in, I want to “pre-heat” the interior of my Volt in the winter from inside my home or hotel from any web enabled device.
Like say…my I-Phone.
I certainly DON’T want another Key-Fob!
Oct 5th, 2008 (4:06 am)Ce modèle est attractif avec la possibilité de rouler 1000 km et en électrique pour les parcours habituels.
je suis en attente de voir le modèle en vente, en France.
Oct 6th, 2008 (9:25 am)If the OnStar center(s) also have access to speeds and travel times on ALL roadways — not just freeways as today — I would expect route/charge optimization to be viable. If not, terrain-based info only (hills, etc.) would create minimal value/benefit for the effort. Check out what is happening in Toronto with IntelliOne.
Oct 7th, 2008 (12:08 am)I don’t understand all the On Star haters. If you can afford a $40,000 car what is another $200/year?
On Star is much more than a GPS. Can a GPS unlock your doors if you lock in your keys? Can a GPS send you an email if your tires are going flat? Can a GPS remind you that it’s time to change your oil?
On Star is already integrated into all the major systems of the car. It is a bit of a pain to have another bill to deal with, but they have multi-year plans and I’m sure you can roll it into the price of the car.
Oct 7th, 2008 (12:15 am)Also, Since Toyota, Chrysler and Ford do not have On-Star it’s a huge marketing edge for GM to say their plug in hybrid is better because it’s optimized by On Star.
The average person that has driven an On-Star equipped vehicle will swear by it. This board is an oasis of haters of the system.
Oct 7th, 2008 (4:07 am)The article states,
The Chevy Volt May Have a “Calculate Most Efficient Route” Navigation Mode
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This can be a very helpful feature. If I had access to this feature, I would most likely use it. Of course “the most efficient route” can mean different things to different people. Does the “most efficient route” mean distance, or time, or energy, etc?
Oct 8th, 2008 (4:20 am)#12 I find it hilarious that you drew Macintosh into a debate about hardware upgradability.
Apple has historically had the worst, most hindered, upgrade capacity of any computer company. Try and upgrade the graphics card on your iMac.
Even the iMac that had an upgradable graphics card slot, got blocked by Apple from working.
Unless you spend $2500+ for a Mac, it can’t be upgraded easily. I seriously doubt the Volt will let you upgrade the hardware, swap out the ICE for a different unit, expand the gas tank and/or batteries, etc.
Oct 12th, 2008 (7:50 pm)Christopher….
Apparently, with all the misfortunes you mention…. owning a Volt is just like owning a Mac. (No upgrades without $$$)
(In either case… I like my Mac AND the Volt still holds my interest! {Not that I was the one mentioned in your post.})
Oct 13th, 2008 (10:31 am)An EXTREMELY HELPFUL feature that would absolutely capture my sale for the ONSTAR option would be “traffic-jam assessment and avoidance”. The time savings in avoiding accident-traffic-jams would really save valuable time, kilowatts, and deep-cycle counts.
Letting me program preferences for ONSTAR to say,
“Mr. Petit, your apparent route currently has a traffic jam if you remain on your current heading”. “It seems your location would cause you a 20 to 30 minute delay” if you need to stay on route IH-35 Northbound.” (A smooth automated voice would be OK). (Voice selection would be critical so that it would not be surprising or irritating or distracting).
Dan Petit, Austin, TX