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Marketing: Will NASCAR Fans Want a Chevy Volt?

October 1st, 2008 | Posted in: Marketing

Since the production Chevy Volt was unveiled, GM has begun showing it around the country. It was seen at the Alt Car expo in California, and also was shown last week at a closed media event at Texas Motor Speedway, so-called the heart of NASCAR.

It is of interest that NASCAR fans love the speed, the smells, and the sounds of the racecars. We already know electric cars can be faster off the start due to instant torque. The author of the source article questions though whether NASCAR gearheads will embrace the oderless, non-vibrating, silence of electric cars like the Volt.

GM marketing people say the Volt is attracting the "green crowd" and the "tech crowd," but also note "this car has mass appeal to a broader audience."

One idea is that NASCAR fans will appreciate energy independence.

But some in GM feel the idea of marketing the car as pro-American, as a way of displacing foreign oil, also might have risks. Per Pete Lewis in GM program development "there is a fear that if we position this as a ‘pro-American’ car, it will upset some of the environmentally conscious crowd, and we want it to be embraced by everyone."

In the end it was suspected that NASCAR fans would go for the Volt as long as its fun to drive. I suspect it will be, but we’ll still have to wait to find out.

Source (CNN )

Posted by: Lyle

91 Responses to “Marketing: Will NASCAR Fans Want a Chevy Volt?”

Dave B Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:13 am

If GM wanted a killer commercial, get a sound bite from a tree-hugger, soldier, hillbilly, and every other stereotype you can think of saying they love the Volt because “they just do.” No rationale needed… That’s a winner.

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Rudi Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:13 am

Instead of motors redlining around the final bend all you would hear is the drivers cussing and tires screeching!

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Alex Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:14 am

They will like it if the price is right. At this point, its all about the pricing. This is the only place I see GM as being likely to blow it, and price it too high. Hope I am wrong…

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solo Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:16 am

Sure NASCAR fans will like it. It’s an American made Chevy.

I bet someone even installs a 572 crate motor in one.

Not sure if the link will work but it is a fully assembled V8 with 572 cubic inches (that’s about 9 litres for you kids).

I know it’s crazy, but I saw a Prius with a Chevy V8 on the internet the other day (Converted to rear drive), so why not a Chevy Volt?

https://store.gmperformanceparts.com/store/SelectProd.do?prodId=7657&redir=true&manufacturer=GM&category=Engines&name=ZZ572/720R%20Deluxe%20&model=

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Michael D Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:19 am

HI all!

Of course there should be a NASAR Volt! What better way to show it off to a large segment of the population.

As to whether it will turn off the environmental crowd. That should be a non-issue. Environmentallists live in America and should be “pro-American” also! It is hard to believe that a person who wants to protect the American envionment would be ‘anti-American” (although I suppose some may be)

GM IS an American Company and should be proud of it . . . and not WIMP out and be afraid if some lunatic gets “offended” or “upset”

Be Well
Go Volt
Go USA

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Joshua Bretz Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:30 am

If EVs were introduced, they would make a bigger impact in F1 racing or drag racing, where it’s more about acceleration. And in those events, EVs would be so much better that every team would have to switch. Racing *supposedly* being about “man not machine”, this will delay acceptance until well into the future, which is unfortunate because people look to race cars with *desire* and base their buying decisions on what they desire.

So if EV racing is going to be happen soon, there will need to be a dedicated EV division.

REVCAR not NASCAR

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Schmeltz Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:31 am

Being a fan of NASCAR myself, I would really like to see a future with electric cars battling it out on the race circuits. I have no idea if I am in the minority, but even if I am, I don’t care. Electric cars can be fast!

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Ken Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:35 am

I am a former NASCAR driver, and still an avid fan. Biffle is a buddy of mine and i still hang out in his pits occasionally and have heard the guys talking about this thing.
Since i am on this site is evidence that i am watching Volt progress. This site is great. NASCAR fans will embrace the Volt. Even without the smells and rumble, We don’t have tons of money to spend on gas just like anybody else and would love to tell foreign oil to take a hike.

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Cautious Fan Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:37 am

Awesome idea in previous posts. Electric racing. This would be a huge benefit to R&D in the field. Lots of money and lots of competition. Not sure if the fans would go for a silent race though.

Is there a millionaire environmentalist who frequents this site? Start offering prizes. $500,000 to the winner of a 200 mile all electric race. Techies will come out of the woodwork with technologies. And what a great way to get the American people used to the idea that electrics are high-performance.

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Van Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:39 am

I think the Volt should offer a dual exhaust option with 4″ diameter exhaust ports that light up with a flickering green LED when the driver gets on it.

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ROBERT M. SPERRY Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:40 am

Electric cars can be fast and can have amazing acceleration. Why would NASCAR fans not love that? Electric cars should be first away from the start, which gives them an edge, and can be just as fast as other cars, so they can hold onto that lead. Also, NASCAR fans are strongly pro-American and will jump on the American-made bandwagon. Once again, I say GO GM! GO VOLT!
NPNS

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Dr.Science #11 on the list Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:43 am

Speed, performance & handling can be had in EV form.
Electric go karts are already here already and the compeition is real.
No reason for NASCAR fans not to embrace a new era of racing.

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Mike-o-Matic Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:55 am

I’m a NASCAR fan and I’m nutty about the e-flex platform. What’s not to like?

Personally LOUD NOISE and noxious fumes are among my least favorite things — it’s the “going fast” and “swapping paint” aspects that appeal to me, so electric racing sounds like a trip!

And of course, as Ken said, I don’t think anybody minds sending OPEC less money.

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MetrologyFirst Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 9:56 am

It will be a LONG, LONG time before an electric car ever shows up on a NASCAR track. For lots of competitive and verification reasons. That is sort of silly.

The question is: Will there be electric cars in the NASCAR track PARKING LOTS!

That’s the real question that needs to be answered. I would say that answer is absolutely YES. It’s a patriotic and economic decision for we serious NASCAR fans. The ones that go to the races. Not just watch on TV. It’s a no-brainer, actually.

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NASA-Todd Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:06 am

#1 Dave B…

Good call….simple and easy to let the viewer make their own determination as to why they like it also…

I’m a Tree Hugger, Right Ring, Southern NASCAR, Pick Up Truck Driving Engineer and I like the Volt because “I just do”.

Go Volt

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Grizzly Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:06 am

Great idea. Have a Volt nascar racing circuit. What better way to push rapid recharge technology? Can you imaging being in and out of the pit in 20 seconds with a full battery? How many auto technology firsts have been borne out of racing?

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Aspherical Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:11 am

I can’t speak for NASCAR fans, but I believe NASCAR fans will not embrace a fully electric car race. However I don’t see why the won’t embrace a serial hybrid race. The “small” battery pack will only have to store regenerative braking energy and provide boost during acceleration. The experience of hearing the ICE at a NASCAR event may not be any different since the driving is very repetitive. I wonder if the fans will even notice a difference if you didn’t tell them they were using a serial hydrid. I am a former Formula 1 fan (before they pulled out of Indy) and been to several events and can say that it will be a completely different story for F1 races, but I will be very interesting because the technology excites me more than anything….

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Schmeltz Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:13 am

#14 MeterologyFirst:

To add further regarding electric cars in the parking lots of NASCAR races, I would say that electric cars will ENABLE a lot of people to go to the races by subtracting the high travel costs out of the equation. High gas prices have been stifling attendance to most if not all of the races this past year.

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Eclectic Dan Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:15 am

I’d like to see the rationale behind the idea that being pro-American is anti-environmental. America is the birthplace of conservation. I think overcoming the mystique of GM’s poor quality is a much bigger issue. Being Pro-American is not so alienating as being American Made.

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RB Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:17 am

“Texas Motor Speedway, so-called the heart of NASCAR.”
==============================================

The heart of NASCAR is around Lowes Motor Speedway in Concord NC, not in Texas or any other place.

The NC speedways are the heart because that is where NASCAR started, that is where NASCAR attracts the largest numbers of spectators, that is where the drivers live, and that is where the engineering and testing is done for the cars themselves. (Each of the teams has huge, hangar-like buildings.)

And, NC is where the Volt will not be sold for some years, apparently. So no the Volt is not going to be attractive to the core of NASCAR fans. But maybe GM can display one on a trailer at the speedway someday. Noblesse oblige, as they say (often with some dersiveness).

This conjunction (of “how great we are” with “in your face”) is more than a little bit of a sore spot, as you can see.

In any event, GM has its bailout now, so why should GM care?

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statik Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:19 am

Must be a slow news day today at CNN? Is NASCAR big in New York, California and DC? I dunno though, NASCAR is not a winner in Canada…LUGE RACING FTW!!!

Just thought I’d throw out some side tidbits as well. Some relates to parts of the Volt team…others, just random GM jottings.
————————————–
GM announced a couple days ago about cutting contract workers…well apparently the designers/engineers at GM’s ‘hybrid design team,’ about 500 of them are on contract. Well for 400 of them, their last day is now friday. The other 100? The lucky ones….they get to stay until Christmas. Nice job on the hybrids and the Volts fellas…now if you would just put your stuff in these old ‘GMNext’ carboard boxes, just don’t use the new boxes for the GMNext redesign, we have to have some promotional stuff to show the world we are serious about future hybrids at the big new unveiling.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060105/AUTO01/601050415/1148

————————————————–
And GM is selling off all its old plants and land…and in some cases (for the few plants they don’t lease) closing plants because of not only the slowdown, but because the property itself has value. (Like the Doraville plant in Georgia that was shuttered friday)

“What GM is doing is looking to build up as big a cash cushion as it can,” said Joe Phillippi, principal of New Jersey-based AutoTrends Consulting Inc. “Sales are down enough as it is, and if the credit crunch gets worse, they’re going to need every penny.”

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081001/AUTO01/810010383/1148
—————————————————-

Oh yeah, its September autosales release day too. We’ll should see how the actual sales environment is for GM, now that the ‘uber’ sales deals/GM discount/financing incentives aren’t masking the ‘we don’t lease vehicles anymore’ losses.

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RB Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:28 am

#2 Rudi says “Instead of motors redlining around the final bend all you would hear is the drivers cussing and tires screeching!”
===================================

That’s what they do on TV, at least. But many of the drivers and most of the teams have advanced degrees in engineering and multiple computers doing simulations during the race (tracking gas coonsumption, for example). That is, off camera they tend to talk more like nasa engineering.

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old man Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:28 am

I think a volt at the track as the pace car would be great and the fans would chear as loud as they could.
just think of the TV commercial , as it laps the track close to the wall the anouncer says hear it roar and all you hear is the sound of it moving air at 100mpr.

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N Riley Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:29 am

Pro-American and Anti-American customers are going to love the Volt if Gm gets it produced and the price is reasonable after a tax credit. It’s terrible to have to say Pro and Anti-Americans, but truth is that is the way it is today. NASCAR fans are all Pro-Americans. How else could they be. They will love the Volt for the same reasons the rest of us would. GM should create the type of commercials that sell the Volt and not worry about offending the environmentalist. Most of them are Pro-American, I would bet. Even if most of the hard core environmentalist don’t buy the Volt that still leaves a tremendous customer base. Come on GM, just get the job done.

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Grizzly Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:34 am

Electric Dan #19

“I’d like to see the rationale behind the idea that being pro-American is anti-environmental. ”

*** *** ***

That comment made no sense to me either.

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Biodiesel Joe Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:35 am

Imagine in the future motor sports using electric only cars. The 500 would probably be reduced to a 125 or so. But the battery packs could be “snapped in” say they are allowed 5 packs per race and your given 1 minute to swap. More of a Sebring style of racing and less of a nascar. I expect in the future having gas cars still around, like I expect to own a Ferrari 328 someday for weekend jaunts. Gas cars may never disappear completely but they will be a rarer site on the road. We need to have a paradigm shift to electrics or alternative fuels.

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Joe OBrien Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:37 am

Seeing as how the majority of Nascar fans are on the lower end of the breeding curve, I’m not sure.

But who really cares if they like it or not? I’d gladly drive a Volt while they continue to pump $8-$10 gas into their 10mpg behemoth 4×4 trucks.

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statik Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:40 am

#26 Biodiesel Joe

Imagine in the future motor sports using electric only cars. The 500 would probably be reduced to a 125 or so. But the battery packs could be “snapped in” say they are allowed 5 packs per race and your given 1 minute to swap. More of a Sebring style of racing and less of a nascar. I expect in the future having gas cars still around, like I expect to own a Ferrari 328 someday for weekend jaunts. Gas cars may never disappear completely but they will be a rarer site on the road. We need to have a paradigm shift to electrics or alternative fuels.
—————

Nascar, all electric, based on the Volt…races down to 40 miles maximum! Whole thing would take about 15 minutes tops. Or could have a whole series of seeded 40 mile heads-up eliminator races….sweetness.

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DonC Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:42 am

I fail to see why the environmental and the national security concerns would be mutually exclusive. Some consumers might love the Volt primarily for the former, some for the latter, and some for both. (And some because they value safety and like the idea of having two separate propulsion systems).

The groups can’t be wholly discrete. GM would be hard put to it to find environmentalists who are concerned with the welfare of OPEC or national security wonks who favor pollution. My advice would be to stop looking a gift horse in the mouth and to market it to both groups. It’s one of those “taste great less filling” situations.

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noel park Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:44 am

Well I’m an environmentalist, NASCAR fan, amatuer race car driver, want to use less oil, and strongly motivated to “Buy American”, particularly a Volt. So what’s the issue? I also believe that the average NASCAR fan is much more sophisticated and knowledgeable than the”good ol’ boy” stereotype might lead people to believe. The technology and engineering involved is of a very high level.

BTW, F1 is in the process of developing hybrid systems for their race cars as we speak.

#21 statik:

There was a report on NPR yesterday about the huge brewing conglomerates in the UK closing historic old pubs and converting them into “flats” because they can’t make money selling beer anymore. Seem that people have taken to buying beer down at their equivalent of Costco and drinking it at home because it’s cheaper. For shame! Sounds eerily similar in some sort of a strange way.

Nothing like the imminent prospect of Chapter 11 to concentrate the mind.

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statik Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:47 am

#29 DonC

I fail to see why the environmental and the national security concerns would be mutually exclusive. Some consumers might love the Volt primarily for the former, some for the latter, and some for both. (And some because they value safety and like the idea of having two separate propulsion systems).

The groups can’t be wholly discrete. GM would be hard put to it to find environmentalists who are concerned with the welfare of OPEC or national security wonks who favor pollution. My advice would be to stop looking a gift horse in the mouth and to market it to both groups. It’s one of those “taste great less filling” situations.
————————————–

Your very right. So much so that I had to delete the post I had written.

Nice day today isn’t it? Do-dee-do…nothing to see here.

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DonC Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:48 am

#24 N. Riley – “and not worry about offending the environmentalist. Most of them are Pro-American, I would bet.”

Ya think? Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

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Bob C Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:51 am

Generally, environmentalists blame America for all the world’s environmental ills. That’s why there is the impression that being an environmentalist is anti-American. The problem is not in being a steward of the environment, but being a self proclaimed ‘environmentalist’ automatically makes you have a political agenda, rather than a conservationist agenda. We should all be stewards of the environment, but don’t trust anyone who claims to be an ‘environmentalist’! With a cleaner environment we all benefit. With an ‘environmentalist’ we just have another irrational zealot ready to stoke tyranny on anyone that disagrees with them!

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Jackson Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:51 am

I think they would, given the oppportunity. I think the frustration RB (#20) expresses is widespread, though. NASCAR is strong in the Southeast, and the Southeast is always near the end of the list when it comes down to where new consumer technology gets implemented, at least that’s the perception.

The Southeast, it should be remembered, is still recovering from the supply disruption following Hurricane Ike. It is the only region of the country with no refining / stockpiling capability for oil products, and is totally dependent on pipelines and tanker trucks. The region will be written off only at GM’s peril.

This whole question creates a consonant dissonance recalling how GM rolled out the new Camaro, straight into the face of NASCAR fans: “Dale Earnhardt Junior LOVES the V8 in the New Camaro!!!!”

The Volt is bigger than stereotypes, and that includes West Coast environmentalists always flocking to electric vehicles. The “Who Killed the Electric Car” company may be in for a shock.

Statik, the Doraville plant has been shuttered for awhile; also, the Hapeville Ford plant closed recently: so this shouldn’t be seen necessarily as a GM-only trend.

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Biodiesel Joe Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:53 am

#28 Static-

Racing does bring us alot of helpful technologies to cars. If the batteries & motors are stressed the teams have the money and incentive to make them lighter and more able to hold a charge quickly. It could only help with development of the whole line of cars. 40 teams all working on building better batteries and lighter cars with huge budgets are better than 1-2 large manufacturers working on this at the moment. Just a pipe dream but its cool to dream sometimes .

“You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will be as one” – John Lennon “imagine”

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noel park Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:53 am

#22 RB:

Right. You beat me to it. Thank you

#24 N Riley:

The first person I ever saw driving a Prius was a Senior Attorney for the Natural Resources Defense Council. If there is a more “hard core” and effective environmentalist on the planet, I defy anyone to show him or her to me. If the Volt had been there first, I guarantee you that she would have been driving a Volt. If and when the Volt becomes the poster car for low fuel consumption and emissions, I guarantee you that she will drop her Prius like a bad habit and get a Volt. I cannot see any issue here.

#25 Grizzly:

Right. It made no sense to me either. Thank you.

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MtthwRyn Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:59 am

GM’s “fear” that environmentalists will be angered by the Volt being marketed as “pro-American” is just RIDICULOUS!! Since when are environmentalists not pro-American?? I consider myself a bit of an environmentalist, and certainly progressive. I was proud that the last car I purchased was American (only later did I find out it was actually built in Mexico…..oh well). Anyway, their argument is just idiotic.

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Dave K. Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 11:04 am

One point that has not been made is that with consumer efficiency comes consumer range.

The increasing gasoline prices of today have many consumers shopping online rather than driving 20 miles to a Costco, a Toys”R”Us store, movie theater, or restaurant.

Public EV use will cause a lift to local businesses and may even increase the amount of quality family time together which we sometimes sacrifice.

A good example of this is last weeks Santa Monica Expo. I live about 90 miles North of the Civic Center. My truck provides just 24 MPG freeway. But my Ninja gets 40 MPG. So I made the trip on the bike. And even with the decent freeway MPG it still cost $17 for the one day ride.

(hypothetical) Volt calculation: First 40 miles cost $1. Next 140 @ 50MPG cost $11. Total (Volt) cost $12, a SAVINGS of $5 for the day.

Besides being a lot of torquey fun to drive. The Chevy Volt is rumored to sport seats sheathed in rich Corinthian Leather.

Then the following week I drive the 17 miles one-way to work and back. Five days work transportation (Volt) cost $5.

The total (Volt) fuel cost for the week including a trip to L.A. is just $17.

The SAME cost as the one day ride to L.A. on a motorcycle.

Now let’s add the motorcycle transportation to work cost (at 40 MPG) = $12.

Giving a final result for the week of $29 motorcycle and just $17 for the Volt.

A difference of $12 for the week. Based on $3.75 per gallon cost for gasoline. Let’s not think about $5.89 per gallon.

$12 x 52 weeks per year = $624 MORE per year to travel on the motorcycle.

$624 x 8 years time = $5000 MORE to ride the motorcycle.

no plug =D~ no sale

NRCLNS

No rich Corinthian Leather, no sale!

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ThombDbhomb Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 11:13 am

I don’t know much about NASCAR, but I’ll give my opinion anyway. Only the first 40 miles will be quiet and (petroleum) odor free. All that old NASCAR noise probably has made old NASCAR fans deaf, so it won’t matter anyway. There will still be tire whine, so the blind NASCAR fans will hear the cars going around in an oval. If necessary, NASCAR can artifically create noise with their PA system. Also, NASCAR can recreate the rumble by putting “magic fingers” in the seats and pump in pollutants for breathing. After the first 40 miles, the NASCAR ICE will kick in. Then you will get your noise/rumble/exhaust fix. The new NASCAR fans won’t know any better, so they’ll assume NASCAR is supposed to be that way.

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statik Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 11:19 am

First of the big three is out of the gate with year over year September sales:

Ford
——

The industry predicted a massive 25% drop for them…well, turns out, they were not even close, off 35%

http://money.cnn.com/2008/10/01/news/companies/autosales/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote

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Dave G Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 11:30 am

The concept of electric car racing really appeals to me. Car racing has always pushed innovation, and much of this innovation finds its way back into regular cars one way or another.

Besides which, it’s fun!

Also, I can easily do without the screaming engines. Tire noise is plenty. For an example of what racing EVs might sound like, check out http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/gallery.php

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Todd Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 11:55 am

Ok, all those at GM who are afraid of offending the environmentalists should leave GM now. They are old school and are the ones that have run GM into the ground.

I’m an environmentalist, a NASCAR fan and Pro-American. There is no conflict here.

There is an old saying “What’s good for GM is good for the country.” It’s about time that is changed and GM needs to listen to it – “What’s good for the country is good for GM.”

Lyle, pass that message back to GM management.

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JimGalaxy Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 12:02 pm

Statik # 21 – I usually love your posts, but your first news link is from January 2006 (!)

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Mike-o-Matic Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 12:17 pm

@27 Joe O’Brien,

>> Seeing as how the majority of Nascar fans are on the lower end
>> of the breeding curve,

Geez… Paint with a broad brush, much?

Technically what you said is a logical fallacy, formally known as a “sweeping generalization.” But then how would I know that? I’m jus’ an ig’nernt NASCAR fan.

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statik Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 12:21 pm

#43 JimGalaxy

Statik # 21 – I usually love your posts, but your first news link is from January 2006 (!)
———————————

Ooops, sorry about that, my text was right–but linked the wrong page…I was just looking at older press clippings at the same time because it sounded familar, guess I put up the old one.

Here is the right link from today:

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gm-fire-sale-gathers-pace-everyone-must-go/

/good catch…sorry about that (if only we could edit longer, hehe)

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bradyb Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 12:26 pm

They just need to change that ugly color.

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Spin Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 12:46 pm

Back as far as ‘96 or 97′, I attended a CART (Indy Car) race at the Burke County Lake Front Airport in Cleavland and one of the support races was an electric car race. These cars were single seat, open, purpose built race cars, and they looked like smaller versions of the Indy cars. Although silent, this race was very exciting and many people where I was sitting in the stands commented about how much they enjoyed it. Adding to the excitement was that one of the cars went up in smoke. I think race fans for the most part would embrace the Volt.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 12:54 pm

#44 Mike-o-Matic
What do expect from the Irish?

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Jerome Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 12:56 pm

Off on a tangent here and I assume this has been discussed elsewhere and I just missed it but….

The lines at gas stations in Atlanta show the importance of electric only range goes beyond price of gas….it goes to the availability of gas too.

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Jackson Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 12:58 pm

…uh, was this thread supposed to be

“Will NASCAR fans want a Volt to appear in a race,”

or

“Will NASCAR fans want a Volt for themselves?”

I think it’s the latter, yet around half of the replies seem to be about electric racing (no personal opinion, but I think it should be a separate topic).

Right on, Jerome (#49)

I’m in the Atlanta area, and I don’t ever want to be subject to gas lines again. I’d say that my next car will be electric, but I know better than to pretend that one will be available here (where manufacturers see us as unsophisticated rednecks who are only interested in pickup trucks and V8 engines), in less than the lifetime of another ICE car.

GRRRRrrrrrr.

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frank Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:00 pm

Electric Drag racing is already available. It’s not nascar but it is still cool! http://www.nedra.com Go and check it out. Alot of the fast electric cars are faster than most production cars. I like NASCAR and I like Drag racing and I like the idea of getting off of foreign oil. I like the Volt. Also it let’s you have cool names like killavolt or megacycle.

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DaV8or Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:00 pm

#12 Dr. Science #11,

“No reason for NASCAR fans not to embrace a new era of racing.”

Except that the Daytona 500 would have to become the Daytona 5. Makes for a short day at the track or a lot of long boring intervals where they charge their batteries.

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statik Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:02 pm

GM light trucks off 19.3
Gm cars off 9.8

16% overall.

I’ve got to say I’m surprised. I had them penciled down for about 20-22% A drop of 16% is still a bad number…but considering the environment, that is about as decent a showing as they could hope for all things considered.

So I guess you can ‘coloUr me’ impressed this month.

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINWNAB450520081001?rpc=44

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Bearclaw Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:08 pm

I can see the days when they are racing electric cars and instead of refuling in the pits they are dropping the battery out and putting in a fully charged one. That would be cool.

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Jackson Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:38 pm

Statik:

Ford off more than expected, GM off less.

Could it be that the Volt program is having the intended early effect of a PR boost?

If so, it will be interesting to see if Chrysler’s numbers are falling less than expected after their recent electric revelations (I doubt there’s been enough time, and certainly not as much openess as GM).

Ford is the only one of the “big 3″ to be unheard from on the Lithium-Ion, EREV front: and they’re about to face a PR blow from the film “Flash of Genius.”

If they have a secret Volt-like program, I expect we’ll hear about it, and soon.

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mmcc Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:43 pm

How about using the Tesla Roadster as Indy pace car next year, or the Volt if it’s ready for prime time.

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Grizzly Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:44 pm

Jackson #50

“yet around half of the replies seem to be about electric racing (no personal opinion, but I think it should be a separate topic).”

*** *** ***

If there ever is electric racing then obviously demand for a Volt by Nascar fans is a moot point. Further, racing has always developed technologies that often end up in passenger cars after proven on the track. I don’t think we’ll see electric racing soon, but it wouldn’t be a bad thing if we did.

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Guy Incognito Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 1:52 pm

NASCAR Racing is as AMERICAN as Mom, Apple Pie, Baseball & Hot Dogs.
So I can’t imagine any NASCAR fan that would’nt want a Chevy Volt when its explained to them that a car like the Chevy Volt will help to reduce AMERICAN dependence on foreign oil & that eventually this technology will lead to complete independence from foreign oil in as much as the transportation sector is concerned.

Like I said, NASCAR Racing is as AMERICAN as Mom, Apple Pie, Baseball & Hot Dogs.

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mitch Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:12 pm

Sales numbers are trickling in… From the Detroit News:

“The sales declines continued for automakers in September, with Ford Motor Co. leading the pack.

Ford reported a sales drop of 34.6 percent in September, followed by Toyota Motor Corp., which saw its sales fall 32.3 percent. Honda Motor Co.’s sales dropped 24 percent and General Motors Corp. reported a 15.8 decline. ”

There’s a suprise…

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Firefly Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:17 pm

Y’know? It’s really funny that you guys should post on this particular subject as I have been getting mixed results when I ask about it. I live in Birmingham, Alabama (and about 25 minutes from Talladega Superspeedway) and many of my friends are of the NASCAR cult. I myself prefer Rolex/ALMS/LeMans endurance racing, but by an act of God we’re all friends…sort of. When I tell them about the Volt and show them pics of it, the first question I invariably get is “how big’s the engine?” I respond by describing what the Volt is, an EREV. By the time I’ve broken the concept of how the Volt works, many of them are turned off. I figured that dyed-in-the-wool Chevy fans or domestic lovers would embrace the car here, but alas I was mistaken. The people that DO respond favorably are like me, the eco-nerd who believes in planetary balance AND technological prowess. It’s the stigma here with small displacement engines as well. Only the young tuner crowd here sees the Cobalt SS GM answering their prayers. The V8 guys don’t even give the Cobalt SS a second look. A few of my associates have on many occasions told me that ‘it ain’t a Chevy if it ain’t got a V8, 350 or bigger’. They usually laugh at me when I tell them that the Chevy that I’d sell a kidney for (but let’s hope I don’t have to…) is a 1.4L inline 4 E-Flex generator unit powering an electric motor. I’m really not sure how everyone will percieve Chevrolet’s new approach or appreciate it as we do. I only hope they come to realize that this IS a step in the right direction for us. But in the event that they don’t acknowledge it or see it the way we do, that’s less people I have to fight in line to get mine…now let’s talk distribution. Am I gonna have to fly to Florida to get mine in 2010 or what?

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Firefly Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:19 pm

#50 Jackson

If he lives in Atlanta, then he knows exactly what I’m talking about.

And as far as my “eco-nerd” quote, it was not meant specifically directed at any group or meant to be derogatory. It’s just what I call-people like myself. If it has been taken out of context by anyone, I apologize as it was not meant to do so…

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BCC Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:21 pm

This environmentally conscious, pro-America American wants a Volt.

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statik Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:24 pm

#55 Jackson

Statik:

Ford off more than expected, GM off less.

Could it be that the Volt program is having the intended early effect of a PR boost?

If so, it will be interesting to see if Chrysler’s numbers are falling less than expected after their recent electric revelations (I doubt there’s been enough time, and certainly not as much openess as GM).
——————

The ‘others’

Toyota off 32.3%
Hyundai off 25.4%
Honda off 20.9%
Chrysler off 33%
Nissan off 37%

It looks like everyone is taking a bath. It makes the GM numbers really confusing…to the point of not adding up. By all rights the number should have been 5-10% higher. GM did nothing special in the month….how can this be?

So naturally, I spend some time digging around, trying to figure out how they did it. Then I stumbled upon this nuggest. GM started dealer incentives on August 23rd, 2008…and the world makes sense again.

Here is how it works:

For every car your local dealership sold in August (with the super-duper rebates– it was US$4,214 per vehicle in July as FYI) they also got a $250 ‘credit’ on their books. Now that same dealer can take up to 4 of those credits ($1000) to put against SEPTEMBER sales. That should be good for another 5-10% I figure.

/mystery solved

…and GM doesn’t have to show how bad its bleeding for another month, (thats 3 fancy step months in a row adding a new ‘twist’) until the Q3 quarterly report November 3rd, 6PM, when GM can’t hide the cost of these ’sales’

http://www.banknet360.com/news/NewsAbstract.do?na_id=9710

——————–
Here is a breakdown by brand and car of September sales at GM:
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/84/84530/sales_production/Deliveries_September_08.pdf

You might notice that all the ‘non-disaster sales’ came from the cars with the most to gain from the discount…the low price/no margin cars.

Buick – 29
Cadillac – 30
Chev +13.4

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DonC Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:26 pm

#57 Grizzly – “I don’t think we’ll see electric racing soon, but it wouldn’t be a bad thing if we did.”

Batteries just don’t have that much energy. A gallon of gas contains about 35 kWh of energy. And the cars use so much energy. I think they get 3 mpg or 4 mpg, something incredibly low like that.

Granted an ICE has a lot of drive train inefficiencies, but the starting point would be that to have the same energy reserves you’d find in a ten gallon tank of gas you’d need a 350 kWh battery. What would that weigh and how big would it be?

For short distances like you find in drag racing EVs should consistently beat ICEs because of the power and instant torque. But for going very fast over longer distances gas is hard to beat.

However, having said that, if we assume the ICE is 20% efficient and the EV is 80% efficient, doubling the energy a couple of times should make things interesting. Doubling three times and I’d think all winning cars would be EVs. Doubling four times and it’s not a contest.

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solo Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:33 pm

Electric race cars would work in drag racing but nothing like NASCAR or road racing. You have that pesky range problem. You can’t refuel a battery in 15 seconds.

I used to race electric Radio Control cars. Our heats were 4 minutes long because thats all the battery would last. The battery made up about 1/4 the weight of the car too.

Gas RC cars however could run 20 minutes and be refueled during a pit stop which allowed for very long races.

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DonC Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:36 pm

#63 Statik

Your point that big incentives will affect sales is well taken, but I’d think the sales numbers are far more influenced by the “employee pricing” than the dealer incentives.

Ike and the gas shortage couldn’t have helped these numbers. If you are having trouble getting gas you’re not going to be thinking about buying a new vehicle. Nor does the financial meltdown help at all. I actually know people who are pulling their money out of banks. They and others worried about their houses and pensions and money market accounts aren’t buying cars.

#55 Jackson

Thinking that PR about a car that won’t exist for two years would influence sales of unrelated cars today seems far fetched. You want people in showrooms, and until you have something in the showroom you’re not generating any traffic.

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DonC Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:43 pm

#65 solo – “You can’t refuel a battery in 15 seconds.”

That’s an interesting point I hadn’t thought of, but I’m not sure it’s a big obstacle. You can recharge batteries fast, you just need a lot of juice and be willing to kill the battery after a limited number of cycles. You can also quick swap a battery or batteries (probably faster than a tire change).

You’d assume the packs would be modular. Specialized charging stations could carry a lot of juice and charge separate parts of the pack. Or you could swap one or more of the packs out.

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RB Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:44 pm

#52 DaV8or said “Makes for a short day at the track or a lot of long boring intervals where they charge their batteries.”
==========================================

Or it could make for exciting pit stops, with re-charges done far faster than done anywhere else. Remember the discussions of how recharge time is limited by the charging circuit and not be the battery. If the race depended on it, we would find out “experimentally” if that was so.

Same for battery swaps.

Ever watched them change tires?

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dodahman Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 2:59 pm

I’d like to hear an electric car screaming around a track at 200mph. That would sound cool.

Maybe it would also force NASCAR to race on tracks that require more skill.

Road Courses!

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Dave K. Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 3:21 pm

This talk of electric NASCAR and the sounds from the electric track raise images of Andy Granatelli’s turbine racers. They screamed around the track at metal grinder RPM’s…very exciting. Everyone wondered, “When with that thing explode?”

Anthony “Andy” Granatelli (born March 18, 1923 in Dallas, TX) was the CEO of STP.

Along with brothers Vince and Joe, Andy first worked as an auto mechanic and ’speed-shop’ entrepreneur, modifying engines such as the ‘flathead’ Ford into racing-quality equipment. His cars became a significant presence at the Indianapolis 500. While he first gained notoriety by re-introducing the legendary Novi, his most famous entries were his turbine-powered cars in 1967 and 1968. In both years, he endured the excruciating frustration of seeing probable race-winners fail near the end; Joe Leonard’s breakdown with 10 laps remaining in 1968 had been topped the previous year when Parnelli Jones, leading comfortably with just three laps to go, suffered the failure of an inexpensive transmission bearing and retired, handing a sure victory to A.J. Foyt.

He was finally rewarded with an Indianapolis 500 winner in 1969.

http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/STP_Turbine.jpg

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JonP. Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 3:46 pm

#1 Dave B

“If GM wanted a killer commercial, get a sound bite from a tree-hugger, soldier, hillbilly, and every other stereotype you can think of saying they love the Volt because “they just do.” No rationale needed…”

I was thinking something like the new “i’m a pc” commericals.

Something like a 10 second clip of some old engineer/scientist saying “i love the volt because it”
and then people from every walks of life visibly representing their demographic saying
flower power girl: “great for the enviroment”
marine: “improves our national security”
cheap guy : “Saves me money”
Gearhead: “lays some rubber”
Mom or Dad: “helps protect my kids future”
Union guy: “brings good jobs home”

Then speeds up to .5 second clips of hundreds of people saying at the same time ” helps eliminate our dependence on foreign oil” !!!

Honestly i can’t even believe GM is having a problem with this. There are so many reasons to love this car……..
Way more than any other car i’ve ever heard of.

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JonP. Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 3:47 pm

Statik,

you must be all moist waiting for tomorrow. Looking forward to all the doom & gloom

=D~

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Dave K. Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 3:49 pm

Check out Arie Luyendyk’s 05/27/90 Indy.
His Lola Chevy averaged 185.981 MPH! Are you kidding me?!

http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/ChevyAtIndy.jpg

http://garfwod.250free.com/Photos/Arie%20Luyendyks%201990%20winning%20car.jpg
Arie Luyendyk’s 1990 winning car

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Jason Spangler Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 4:20 pm

I believe almost all Americans, including environmentalists, are pro-American, so I disagree with GM’s fear of alienating environmentalists by saying the car is pro-American.

The Volt can be simultaneously be pro-American (American made and can help America reduce oil dependance), pro-environmental (helping reduce pollution such as greenhouse gas, and run 40 miles on renewable electrical sources), and pro-world (by selling the car to other countries, helping them be oil independent and more environmental too).

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MikeyB Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 4:29 pm

NASCAR is lame and besides, hillbillies won’t appreciate what the Volt is trying to do.

If Chevy really wants to get advertising bang for its buck it should market the Volt to the Formula 1 crowd, not NASCAR. Unlike NASCAR, F1 is all about innovation, sophistication, and pushing the technological envelope – ostensibly what the Volt represents. F1 also has a global audience whereas NASCAR is just a mindless American thing.

Does Chevy REALLY want the Volt to be just another ‘American’ car or do they want to give Volt and the Chevy brand a global reputation for something other than another crappy ‘American’ car? There was a time when American cars were the envy of car-makers everywhere, now they are known for inferior fuel economy and shockingly bad build quality.

Chevy should use the Volt to restore prestige to itself and American cars in general – forget NASCAR, that only feeds the stereotypes. Leverage the Volt to show the world what American cars should be, not what they have been.

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statik Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 5:15 pm

#72 JonP

Statik,

you must be all moist waiting for tomorrow. Looking forward to all the doom & gloom
=D~
———————————–

What happens tomorrow? Did they move up the Senate vote? I’m not following you here. Not getting the 12 votes?

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StevePA Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 6:06 pm

Will NASCAR fans want to watch a race of EREVs? Eventually they’ll “get the hang of it”. As one blogger mentioned earlier, first the Volts and similar vee-hickles will show up in the parking lots.

Then how about a rejuvenated IROC series (all cars spec’d and prepped the same, so driving skill is all that matters) using Volts? Those events are / were run mostly just prior to NASCAR events at the same tracks as part of race weekends.

Just a matter of time and getting used to gasoline becoming an anchronism.

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Bearclaw Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 7:47 pm

I like the IROC idea with all the cars the same specs.

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Grizzly Says:
October 1st, 2008 at 10:43 pm

DonC # 64

Yup that’s exactly why I don’t think we’ll see it anytime soon. You are correct about electric drag racing. Somewhere in the south I saw an open drag racing meet that allows anyone to race anyone on any given night. One guy is racing an EV with 880 lb/ft and has demolished the competition. He is using dual electric motors with a controller that allows him to switch the windings at about 5K RPM such that the motor goes from a torque-ster to an HP machine and about mid track he gets a surge of power. Without that setup mid track would have been where he’d have started to lose ground to a high HP ICE.

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Larreth Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:10 am

NASCAR has not even gone fuel injected. It is “old school racing”. I am fully in favor of the Volt as consumer vehicle but, going to a race is about feeling the power through the roar of the engines.
Racing has never been about efficiency. They never went down to 4cyl in the ‘70 fuel crisis and most will not go electric, with the possible exception of F1 or drag cars.
I still want my Volt ASAP!!!!!!

P.S. Not all NASCAR fans are hillbillies. Please refrain from the reference.

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Jim in PA Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:17 am

Per Pete Lewis in GM program development “there is a fear that if we position this as a ‘pro-American’ car, it will upset some of the environmentally conscious crowd, and we want it to be embraced by everyone.”
————————
Here’s a riddle. Which is less patriotic; American environmentalists, or GM sending 60,000 American jobs to Mexico over the last 15 years? Look in the mirror, Petey, look in the mirror. Tell me, why do all of GM’s spokesmen and executives give interviews with the verbal restraint of someone with Tourettes Syndrome?

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Jay Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:34 am

Again, you people are idiots! NASCAR is all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ dummy. There isn’t a dimes worth of difference between any off the cars and its all about BIG MONEY, YOURS! If GM, precisely the Chevrolet Division was really interested in NASCAR, then the Monte Carlo would have been a rear wheel drive with a V8 and a 4-speed stick like everybody was expecting and didn’t get! The Volt is no different; you will get what GM wants to produce and nothing more! Grow-up and don’t get all happy about something that is being sold to your by a large global manufacturing corporation who’s bottom line is your dollars at the dealerships! You walk-in and buy what’s offered or you don’t, End of Story!

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Shawn Marshall Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 7:49 am

Lyle has exposed us to any number of GM personnel involved in the development of the Volt. It seems GM has an unwieldy structural approach to product development although it looks like the Volt is coming together nicely. Now the marketing guys get to show their angst, calling to mind the Skunkworks adage “The Purpose Of a System Is What It Does”(POSIWID). Chevy marketing boys and gals, here find a message please, when you have a unique product with a revolutionary technology, just try to get yourselves out of the way. The Chevy Revolution is really on this time.

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Ben Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 8:56 am

I’m part of the “environmentally conscious crowd”, and I can’t imagine why anyone would be upset by it being positioned as pro-American. Aside from the fact that I am also American, and pro-American myself, I’d imagine that even someone who wasn’t would recognize that it’s a green car no matter how they market it. Anyone who considers themself “green” and is anti-America, and who would consider NOT buying the car because it was marketed as pro-American, would be cutting off their nose to spite their face, as they say.

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ERP Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 9:08 am

Not unless it can really spin the tires!

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Chris Atchley Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 1:42 pm

As an avid Nascar fan and previous racer, I AM interested and want one. For the same reasons as most, to save money, and reduce my environmental footprint.
At the same time, Do not think that there won’t be people trying to modify the Volt looking for more performance. How hard would it be to make it a 12 second car? What about removable slide in battery packs for quicker recharge or replacement? (Pretty hard in it’s current configuration), I think oval racing will be a few years down the road, but 1/4 mile drag electric is here now.
http://www.nedra.com/
or how about a street legal 72 Datsun turning 11 sec 1/4’s
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/whitezombie.php

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Jackson Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 1:43 pm

Hey Ya’ll, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqqtJpfZElQ

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Jackson Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 1:51 pm

Don C (#66):

“Thinking that PR about a car that won’t exist for two years would influence sales of unrelated cars today seems far fetched.”

So much about the car business is far-fetched PR. How else to explain the adage which ruled racing and car sales for years:

“Win on Sunday, buy on Monday.”

The race fans in the showroom on Monday can’t buy the stock-shell overly hyped-up racecar that won the previous day’s race, but dealers used to swear by that principle.

Consider also the PR effect of a film based on a car that hadn’t existed in years, at the time of it’s release, on GM: “Who Killed the Electric Car.”

Public opinion (it pains me to admit) has more to say about an auto brand than actual nuts and bolts.

Of course, Statik has shot down my Volt-bump premise with his explanation of accounting ledgerdemain (sigh). Though if I’m right, the effect will last past the next month or two. It is another two years before the car appears.

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Jackson Says:
October 2nd, 2008 at 2:01 pm

RB:

“Remember the discussions of how recharge time is limited by the charging circuit and not be the battery. If the race depended on it, we would find out “experimentally” if that was so.”

That’s a great point, and enough to get me off the fence concerning electric racing.

And no, I wasn’t suggesting that the Southeast isn’t covered over with V8 yahoos. Show them something faster, though, and you won’t keep them away. A race might be just the sort of thing to demonstrate the reality of the situation.

How’d ya’ll like my video? I was actually looking for another clip I’d seen where that same electric X1 beat the pants off a NASCAR racer (was it on Mythbusters?), but that one was good enough.

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Jay Says:
October 3rd, 2008 at 5:03 pm

Hey y’all, electric racecars already do exist, and they’re spanking just about all comers in the quarter mile.
Check out http://www.nedra.com and http://www.plasmaboyracing.com
For you two-wheelers, there’s http://www.killacycle.com, doing 7.824 seconds at 168 MPH. Also check out this month’s cover car at http://www.dragtimes.com
“Powered by 100% American Electrons”

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law Says:
October 4th, 2008 at 10:02 am

“Per Pete Lewis in GM program development “there is a fear that if we position this as a ‘pro-American’ car, it will upset some of the environmentally conscious crowd, and we want it to be embraced by everyone.”"

It’s because our lefties are anti-american, so GM, please stop trying to satisfy this trash and think about mainstream real america and the fact that we need oil independence. I’d say put the importance of environmental protection and being pro-american and for oil independence at the same level because all of those ideals are probably equal in importance. No one likes smog, real americans love their country and most americans agree that oil independence is important. Don’t put anything that sounds anti-oil company or anti-free market, or anti-american which is what you would have to do to get the far left trash to like you, it’s not worth it.

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Marketing: Will NASCAR Fans Want a Chevy Volt?

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