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	<title>Comments on: Continental Begins World&#8217;s First Mass Production of Lithium-ion Automotive Battery Packs Today</title>
	<atom:link href="http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/24/continental-begins-worlds-first-mass-production-of-lithium-ion-automotive-battery-packs-today/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/24/continental-begins-worlds-first-mass-production-of-lithium-ion-automotive-battery-packs-today/</link>
	<description>Real-time news, information, and discussion about the Chevrolet Volt.</description>
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		<title>By: BOB</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/24/continental-begins-worlds-first-mass-production-of-lithium-ion-automotive-battery-packs-today/#comment-87448</link>
		<dc:creator>BOB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 04:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1299#comment-87448</guid>
		<description>SEE ABOVE REMARKS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SEE ABOVE REMARKS</p>
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		<title>By: BOB</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/24/continental-begins-worlds-first-mass-production-of-lithium-ion-automotive-battery-packs-today/#comment-87447</link>
		<dc:creator>BOB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 04:26:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1299#comment-87447</guid>
		<description>WELL MY BUDDY ENGINEER (WE BOTH  WORKED AT GM ON THE ELECTRIC CAR LONG TIME AGO) HE HAS ALREADY THE NEW NANO
LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE BATTERIES INSTALLED (USED) REPLACING HIS EXISTING LEAD ONES.WE HAVE ALREADY BEATEN GM EV VOLT
(SORRY ABOUT THAT GM!) 
I (BOB) JUST WAITING TILL THE PRICES ARE RIGHT AND I WILL POWER 
MY 3KWATT ELECTRIC BIKE (SMILES)

REMEMBER YOU HAVE TO BE HAPPY TO BE SUCCESS FULL !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>WELL MY BUDDY ENGINEER (WE BOTH  WORKED AT GM ON THE ELECTRIC CAR LONG TIME AGO) HE HAS ALREADY THE NEW NANO<br />
LITHIUM IRON PHOSPHATE BATTERIES INSTALLED (USED) REPLACING HIS EXISTING LEAD ONES.WE HAVE ALREADY BEATEN GM EV VOLT<br />
(SORRY ABOUT THAT GM!)<br />
I (BOB) JUST WAITING TILL THE PRICES ARE RIGHT AND I WILL POWER<br />
MY 3KWATT ELECTRIC BIKE (SMILES)</p>
<p>REMEMBER YOU HAVE TO BE HAPPY TO BE SUCCESS FULL !</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/24/continental-begins-worlds-first-mass-production-of-lithium-ion-automotive-battery-packs-today/#comment-71746</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 08:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1299#comment-71746</guid>
		<description>&quot;No Plug No Sale&quot;

no surprise that Deutsch company didn&#039;t find plug-inability to be an issue ... check out what they pay for electricity over there (even in the heavily advertised wind mill countries):

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=92216

I suspect that gasoline, at 2-3 times what we pay in the US, is still cheaper than an equivalent amount of electrical power.

&quot;no gas in Atlanta&quot;

come on folks. how else to guarantee record profits than to choke off the source to limit supplies precisely when one knows demand is going to skyrocket ... something like the long-term profit motive behind not building new refinerys over the past few decades ... basic economics: keep supply down as demand rises equals more profit. My understanding was that refinerys in that end of the country intentionally slowed or stopped refining with the approach of the storm &quot;for the public good&quot;. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No Plug No Sale&#8221;</p>
<p>no surprise that Deutsch company didn&#8217;t find plug-inability to be an issue &#8230; check out what they pay for electricity over there (even in the heavily advertised wind mill countries):</p>
<p><a href="http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=92216" rel="nofollow">http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=92216</a></p>
<p>I suspect that gasoline, at 2-3 times what we pay in the US, is still cheaper than an equivalent amount of electrical power.</p>
<p>&#8220;no gas in Atlanta&#8221;</p>
<p>come on folks. how else to guarantee record profits than to choke off the source to limit supplies precisely when one knows demand is going to skyrocket &#8230; something like the long-term profit motive behind not building new refinerys over the past few decades &#8230; basic economics: keep supply down as demand rises equals more profit. My understanding was that refinerys in that end of the country intentionally slowed or stopped refining with the approach of the storm &#8220;for the public good&#8221;. <img src='http://gm-volt.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: LEH</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/24/continental-begins-worlds-first-mass-production-of-lithium-ion-automotive-battery-packs-today/#comment-70771</link>
		<dc:creator>LEH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 12:48:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1299#comment-70771</guid>
		<description>If you want to get even more off topic than this thread has already gotten, nobody&#039;s mentioned that A123 is being sued for patent infringement by UTexas and HydroQuebec for &quot;borrowing&quot; the basic chemistry breakthrough here from the work of Dr. John Goodenough at UT, and that others are manufacturing similar batteries here and now, mostly overseas, and have been licensed by the original patent holders. (see Lifebatt and other PHET-licensed companies). Pricing is still too high though.

I&#039;ll admit A123 has the manufacturing lead here right now BUT--and this is a big but--so many other larger players are committed here to large cell lithium production (Panasonic, Sanyo, Hitachi, Saft, Conti, the list goes on) that I seriously doubt there will be one big winner. Interesting horse race, though, and of course we&#039;ll have a gazillion cheap Chinese knockoffs that may or may not work--their quality control to date on high discharge lipoly packs is fairly abysmal. ABAT and CBAK are two players in that space.

But returning to the real news here, the key points about Conti&#039;s very positive announcement here are the claims that they have 
a) developed a safe, reliable, and robust lithium-based HEV pack that I&#039;m assuming has been vetted and approved by Daimler, which is a huge step forward if true--even Toyota hasn&#039;t had the confidence to run lithium-based packs in their Prius beyond a handful of beta testers; and

b) the pack is ready NOW, and is going into some 2009 Mercedes hybrids. 

Regardless of your preference for particular lithium chemistries, this is a major achievement and step forward for the entire HEV industry, and ought to be cheered. It will be interesting to see what kind of warranty Mercedes puts on these packs, and of course the big question here in the U.S. is, will these packs meet the very demanding 10-year/150,000-mile standard mandated by California and other greenie states that follow CA&#039;s lead? Anyone know more details here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to get even more off topic than this thread has already gotten, nobody&#8217;s mentioned that A123 is being sued for patent infringement by UTexas and HydroQuebec for &#8220;borrowing&#8221; the basic chemistry breakthrough here from the work of Dr. John Goodenough at UT, and that others are manufacturing similar batteries here and now, mostly overseas, and have been licensed by the original patent holders. (see Lifebatt and other PHET-licensed companies). Pricing is still too high though.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll admit A123 has the manufacturing lead here right now BUT&#8211;and this is a big but&#8211;so many other larger players are committed here to large cell lithium production (Panasonic, Sanyo, Hitachi, Saft, Conti, the list goes on) that I seriously doubt there will be one big winner. Interesting horse race, though, and of course we&#8217;ll have a gazillion cheap Chinese knockoffs that may or may not work&#8211;their quality control to date on high discharge lipoly packs is fairly abysmal. ABAT and CBAK are two players in that space.</p>
<p>But returning to the real news here, the key points about Conti&#8217;s very positive announcement here are the claims that they have<br />
a) developed a safe, reliable, and robust lithium-based HEV pack that I&#8217;m assuming has been vetted and approved by Daimler, which is a huge step forward if true&#8211;even Toyota hasn&#8217;t had the confidence to run lithium-based packs in their Prius beyond a handful of beta testers; and</p>
<p>b) the pack is ready NOW, and is going into some 2009 Mercedes hybrids. </p>
<p>Regardless of your preference for particular lithium chemistries, this is a major achievement and step forward for the entire HEV industry, and ought to be cheered. It will be interesting to see what kind of warranty Mercedes puts on these packs, and of course the big question here in the U.S. is, will these packs meet the very demanding 10-year/150,000-mile standard mandated by California and other greenie states that follow CA&#8217;s lead? Anyone know more details here?</p>
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		<title>By: Mohsen</title>
		<link>http://gm-volt.com/2008/09/24/continental-begins-worlds-first-mass-production-of-lithium-ion-automotive-battery-packs-today/#comment-70737</link>
		<dc:creator>Mohsen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 03:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gm-volt.com/?p=1299#comment-70737</guid>
		<description>Grizz, no question that A123 is far less risk.  The problem with A123 is pricing of the cells.  GM is well advised to go with A123, because Chiang will find a way to manufacture A123 at lower cost (is he smart enough for that?).  This is bound to happen.  There is no inherent expensive material in the nLiFePO4 (of course if manufacturing nano powder is not the costly step).

GM should keep CPI in the wings, but should go to bed with A123.  Also, GM does not need Conti. A123 packs are a lot simpler to build than CPI packs, and GM will master that someday and does not need Conti.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grizz, no question that A123 is far less risk.  The problem with A123 is pricing of the cells.  GM is well advised to go with A123, because Chiang will find a way to manufacture A123 at lower cost (is he smart enough for that?).  This is bound to happen.  There is no inherent expensive material in the nLiFePO4 (of course if manufacturing nano powder is not the costly step).</p>
<p>GM should keep CPI in the wings, but should go to bed with A123.  Also, GM does not need Conti. A123 packs are a lot simpler to build than CPI packs, and GM will master that someday and does not need Conti.</p>
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