Today begins of of the most important weeks for GM since the Volt concept was introduced. It is widely expected that the car will be revealed in full production form at GM Centennial event tomorrow 8:30 AM.
We will be carrying the global webcast live right here on GM-Volt.com.
Today our efforts here were recognized by the Wall Street journal in a story by the well-respected journalist John Stoll.
The story identifies the importance of the Volt perhaps more than fuel economy as to be a vehicle for changing people’s minds and perceptions about GM.
Rather than to continue be known as the maker of the Hummer and Chevy Suburban, and the company that “killed” the electric car, GM wants to be known as the company that built the Volt.
Through interviews of our own GM-Volt.com reader ship, the story pointed out that there are many out there who have bought Toyotas and other brands before, who never considered GM products, who are now patiently awaiting their Volts, among the nearly 41,000 others on our waiting list.
The article points out that while GM does monitor our waiting list “closely” it hasn’t yet confirmed it will honor it.
Also pointed are out the interesting facts that the Hamtramck plant where the Volt will be built can produce 60,000 vehicles annually, and that some part providers are already planning to supply parts on the order of 100,000 units per year.
Also it is noted that the tests to confirm the batteries will last for 10 years, 150,000 miles will not be completed until March 2010, just 7 months before the first deliveries.
So is GM building the Volt because they care, or because they care what you think?
Source (Wall Street Journal)
Sep 15th, 2008 (5:33 am)Nice article.
Good luck tomorrow, Lyle.
Take lots of pictures. I won’t be able to watch the webcast, unfortunately.
Sep 15th, 2008 (5:34 am)I’m looking forward to seeing her in all her glory! Go GM!
Sep 15th, 2008 (5:48 am)“…who are now patiently awaiting their Volts,..”
Maybe not so patiently
Sep 15th, 2008 (5:57 am)“So is GM building the Volt because they care, or because they care what you think”
the latter of course
Sep 15th, 2008 (6:01 am)Lyle asked the question “So is GM building the Volt because they care, or because they care what you think?”
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We obviously can’t read their collective minds, so all we can do is offer an opinion. I would say it is a little of both, but it is largely about their survival. Go GM!
Can’t wait until tomorrow’s unveiling and perhaps even a surprise or two. I’m hoping we hear an announcement on the battery supplier.
Sep 15th, 2008 (6:04 am)“Build it and they will come…”
A gas panic hit the Southeast this past weekend because of “IKE” …for the first time gas hit a record $5.35 a gallon as a direct result. People here are fed up with the gouging of the American public by the oil giants…
My name is definitelly on the list!! I’ll take a purple Volt with all of the trimings…Green & Gold Metallic will also work…
Johnnie
Sep 15th, 2008 (6:14 am)As Bob Lutz has said “The electrification of the automobile is inevitable”. (Yes, Toymota, resistance is futile, you too will be assimilated).
Whether you believe peak oil is here today, or it is still to come, with the developing nations increasing their energy consumption by 30% per year, it is only a matter of time before petroleum will be in short supply.
GM has realized this impending situation, and has developed E-Flex as a next generation of propulsion for the automobile. They also have invested in ethanol technology, as this is also part of their strategy to ween ourselves off petroleum.
The Volt is not a $400+ million PR stunt. The Fuel Cell Equinox and the Volt both have electric drive, and vehicles of this type represent GM’s future, and likely the future of the automobile.
Thanks Lyle for all your dedication and hard work, and be sure to thank the GM Volt Team for all their efforts as well. Enjoy the celebration! Happy 100th GM.
Sep 15th, 2008 (6:16 am)#6 “A gas panic hit the Southeast this past weekend because of “IKE” …for the first time gas hit a record $5.35 a gallon as a direct result.”
Actually it was good that the price went up, as that gave a direct incentive to people with plenty of gas in their tank to wait a few days for the price to come down. Here (in NC) there was a panic on Friday, and by Sunday night it was all over (no lines anywhere). So the higher prices did their job.
You are absolutely right, though, that once again the incentives for buying an electric car have moved up another notch. What people are most afraid of here is being unable to buy gas at any price, and being stranded.
Sep 15th, 2008 (6:17 am)GM is now awake from their long slumber, and has come to realize that the old model is not going to work in their second century.
The Volt is the first large step in the transformation of the automobile industry.
And I am waiting to be a part of it!!!
For a lot of people, me included, our new mantra is – No Plug, No Sale………..
We sure do hope that GM makes use of Lyle’s list. If there was ever a group that was willing to be early adopters, and help push this technology, this is it!
And thank, Lyle, for all your hard work on the GM-Volt.com site. Have a great time tomorrow!
Go GM! Go GM Volt Team!
Sep 15th, 2008 (6:22 am)Today’s WSJ also has a very informative article on the shortage in automotive batteries (“U.S. Auto Makers Target Battery Gap with Japan”, by John Murphy), and how multiple new plants are under construction in Japan (apparently none in the USA). Market forecast is to increase from less than $1B/year now to to more than $40B.
“http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122142930024933801.html?mod=AutosChannelMain_RelatedStories”
Sep 15th, 2008 (6:40 am)It’s obvoiusly that “they care what you think.” Opinions can make or break a company.
Sep 15th, 2008 (6:41 am)“So is GM building the Volt because they care, or because they care what you think?”
I’d say because they are forced to care what we think. People are buying Toyota brands based on environmental, fuel economy, quality and cost perceptions. GM must change those perceptions or continue their decline.
The statement No new car purchase until it’s a highway capable electric (plug-in), probably gets their attention. GM, as well as other auto manufacturers must have new car sales. If a significant number of consumers put off buying new cars based on reasons expressed on this website, all manufacturers will fall all over themselves trying to get us electrics.
Our buying behavior will change their building behavior.
Sep 15th, 2008 (6:44 am)Many of the stations here in Chattanooga have no gas or only have it intermittently. A lot of people hit the stations on Thursday, but prices have risen through the weekend and I would say than on average 50% of stations have fuel at any given time.
I sure would love to have my Volt and not care about needing to fuel up!
Sep 15th, 2008 (6:45 am)I have the day off, so I’ll be here watching.
LyleL, No new car purchase until it’s a highway capable electric (plug-in).
Is exactly what I am currently doing. And you said it right, that if the majority held this stance we would see all of them offering electrics VERY soon.
I only hope the Volt brings a wave of change, and waves of excellent competition, and highly advanced batteries that eventually get us off of oil for transportation.
Then OPEC can go drown in their own oil. And we can all laugh as it happens as we finally get to drive an EV made by an OEM.
Sep 15th, 2008 (7:01 am)Lyle – SAFE TRIP! I’m sure we all envy the fact that you will be PRESENT for the next step in automotive history. No one deserves it more. I hope that there is enough bandwith so we don’t crash the server!
BillR – Love the Borg collective remark. Now if they could just get “7 of 9″ to unveil it… (g)
RB I’m on the “impatiently waiting” side of the equation too (but waiting nonetheless).
RE: “The List” I can’t easily recall any product that had tens of thousands of people lined up waiting for years. If GM doesn’t acknowledge that product loyalty at a time when the company is flat on their backs, something just isn’t right.
Be well and prosper,
Tag
No Plug, No sale! and LJGTVWOTR!!”
Sep 15th, 2008 (7:21 am)Like ANY company, GMs #1 Fiduciary responsibility is to maximize their bottom line profits and stock value. The do this by creating products that their customers want to buy while maximizing their profit margin. POSITIVE name recognition is VERY important and that comes from public perception of Corporate Responsibility and Produce Quality.
They care what we think so they care about the environment! Pay attention and TELL them what you think… OFTEN!
Sep 15th, 2008 (7:29 am)Go GM go!! Keep up the good work and ignore all the negativities that is coming from the media. Your competitors are now worried. Thanks Lyle for the hard work in keeping this site going.
Sep 15th, 2008 (7:32 am)Last month, GM Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner said the Volt will likely cost in the mid- to high $30,000 range, roughly double the cost of conventional compact cars. Tax credits for high-mileage vehicles could lower the cost to consumers.
Well that’s below 40k.
NO Plug, NO sale.
LJGTVWOTR
Sep 15th, 2008 (7:50 am)#11 Firefly says,
….Opinions can make or break a company.
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So true, and 66% of Americans have a very low opinion of American cars. GM really needs to change that.
Sep 15th, 2008 (7:56 am)I suspect by now GM knows a lot more than it’s releasing publicly. For example, costs of production (packs, materials, etc.). Maybe not exactly, but they know what LG or A123 is going to charge per pack.
I’d like to hear a bit more than bits and pieces…competitors are starting to really generate buzz with their electrics (BMW, Nissan, Tesla, Fisker, Smart, Mazda, Toyota, among others). Time to get crackin’.
Sep 15th, 2008 (7:58 am)If we start taking deposits they’ll take the waiting list seriously. Let’s give them some encouragement. Go GM!
Sep 15th, 2008 (8:02 am)Lyle you deserve a lot, many comments said it, add mine.
I ‘ll be here to watch the centennial, what I hope is an official announcement of the true development a a line of products using the E-Flex architecture.
The Volt cannot be a “one shot event”. IMHO the disappointment expressed by many when the production picture were published may be partly due to the fact that a four doors sedan is not the reference model for many. I, myself, never bought such a model. But I stick on the waiting list because the Volt must change the automobile history and I am ready to pay for it. I prefer to ride in a car that is not exactly what I would like to have than not to ride at all.
No Plug, No sale! and LJGTVWOTR!!” JC
Sep 15th, 2008 (8:11 am)I wish I had not yet seen the new design released…tomorrow would be so much more exciting…
…at the same time I am so much better prepared for the underwhelming new look…
All that said… I am still looking forward to tomorrows webcast – I still want a Volt – I’m still leaving my beloved BMW… if this thing can deliver as promised.
Sep 15th, 2008 (8:13 am)First off, the waitlist is meaningless. It appears delusional when you think otherwise (like when nasaman puts an ATT:GM line in bold in his posts), so I would encourage you to stop mentioning it and let the healing begin.
They are doing the Volt because:
1) PR – Trying to justify bailouts, trying to distract from past mistakes, trying to distract from current vehicles.
2) Prius-envy
3) Horrible financial situation – May as well do whatever crazy money-losing scheme you want as it really doesn’t matter anymore.
Sep 15th, 2008 (8:25 am)The company says it would use such a loan to fund the retooling of a Hamtramck, Mich., assembly plant to give it capacity to build 60,000 Volts annually. Some of its suppliers are already making plans to furnish parts for more than 100,000 annually.
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A) 60K is max? = IF THIS IS TRUE (a source would be nice), then the Volt is image only, and impossible to get previously ‘planned/guesstimated’ production numbers. What does the bailout loan have to do with producing the Volt anyway? Was the Volt not to be built if the loans didn’t go through? Wait yes it was, as Wagoner said at the annual meeting “the Volt is a go,” funding approved.
Remember this Lutz gem? “He told the Detroit News that GM would now be focusing all its efforts on high volume vehicles, saying “this is not the time for niche vehicles,” and “we can’t afford to hit singles and bunts. We need triples and home runs.” –not so much. Furthermore, Lutz says, ”If global demand is there, my personal guess is that vehicles like the Volt could be 500,000 a year in a few years time” (I guess by few years he means like 10, when Volt 2.0 is built…in Europe).
Sep 15th, 2008 (8:26 am)The company says it would use such a loan to fund the retooling of a Hamtramck, Mich., assembly plant to give it capacity to build 60,000 Volts annually. Some of its suppliers are already making plans to furnish parts for more than 100,000 annually.
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B) “Some of its suppliers are already making plans to furnish parts for more than 100,000 annually” Um, why? And how much do ‘plans’ cost again? One last thing…forget 100K, name one third party supplier that has a contract for even one unique part for the Volt.
This is a terrible article, not for it’s style or the information given (I like Stoll’s articles, he has been covering GM for at least 3 years+ for the WSJ), but the heart of the article about GM retooling Hamtramck to give it capacity to build 60,000 Volts annually AND the part about suppliers planning 100K annually are both TOTALLY unsourced with link and/or NAMES of who/where the information came from.
These facts could be true, there could be sources out there to confirm it…but how would I know? I could say GM will produce 1 million Volts in 2013 and it wouldn’t be any more or less valid than the points in this article.
From what I understand about the ‘retooling’ loans had nothing to with Hamm being retooled, it is merely a benefit to GM, (remember the Wagoner ‘the Volt is a go, it has been funded speech at the annual meeting?).
The fact of interest is that it would qualify to have 30% of its cost subsidized under the details the loan passed in the Energy Law, passed in December 2007. Now there is some useful information, would have been nice if Mr. Stoll would have done at least that much work to ferret out what the law ACTUALLY does for the project.
Sep 15th, 2008 (8:38 am)From the WSJ article today:
“General Motors Corp. Chairman and Chief Executive Rick Wagoner, appearing on Capitol Hill, called on Congress to support advanced-battery development in the U.S., which he said lags far behind the government-supported development efforts in Japan and South Korea.”
But it forgets to mention that China is gaining tremendous momentum on battery tech. The U.S. is falling further and further behind. In 10-20 years, America will rely on China not only for selling government bond, but also for getting battery technology. Look at U. of Michigan engineering school, it’s full of Asian students. With the U.S. toughening visa and green cards applications for these students, more and more of them are leaving the U.S. for Japan and Korea. I am very pessimistic.
Sep 15th, 2008 (8:56 am)GXT @ 24, you wrote, “First off, the waitlist is meaningless.”
I disagree on many levels. It gauges potential interest in a product. Go ahead a name one product that has 40,000 names on a list 2 or even 3 years before launch. Yes, they aren’t contracts or guaranteed sales, but Lyle never intended them as such–as no consideration was given by either party as a promise to purchase; however, one could easily convert it into a contract with a very simple transaction. In other words, the list has value. Next, Lyle’s website which as far as I can tell, has turned into the biggest cheerleader for the Volt, and probably had something to do with GM’s decision to produce the Volt. You are incorrect my friend; a waiting list has power.
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:01 am)@27 umstudents says in part “Look at U. of Michigan engineering school, it’s full of Asian students.”
That’s true of many US engineering schools and students. The optimistic way to think about the changing demographics is that many of these students are Asian heritage but US citizens, and many others will stay in the US to work if they have even half a chance. It may be that these Asian students become the greatest inflow of engineering talent the US has had in a long time — smart, energetic and hard-working people.
The US still offers superior opportunities to most engineering graduates, at all degree levels, as a place to live one’s life throughout one’s career. Keep in mind that according to the WSJ the fraction of world-wide industry in the US has increased over the last 50 years, not decreased, as has the absolute amount of US industry. US engineering is far from perfect, but it remains the most innovative (by far) and among the most productive in the world.
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:04 am)I don’t recall where I read on the internet about a pending law suit against the automotive industry blaming them for creating a product that emits a poisonous gas harmful to humans and the environment.
Warning: This could Kill you. (If you don’t think so, in a closed parking garage, sit in your car roll down the window and turn on the car.)
As for the argument of whether global warming or climate change is true or false.
See “The Most Terrifying Video You’ll Ever See” on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zORv8wwiadQ
GM’s current direction, production of the Volt – considered a PZEV/ZEV (Partially Zero Emission Vehicle), is a great legal stand if such a lawsuit were to implicate GM.
GM cares about a lot of things, one of which is public oppion.
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:08 am)Please for those readers who are slow and/or outside.
?? LJGTVWOTR ??
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:09 am)#25 statik says “What does the bailout loan have to do with producing the Volt anyway? Was the Volt not to be built if the loans didn’t go through?”
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We are discussing USA politics here, not logic. The Volt is the picture on the cover of the loan proposal, which essentially says “Give us the money and we will build cars like this one.” It gives the people in congress who are going to vote for the loan a much nicer story to tell than to say “we gave this loan in the hope that voters in Michigan and Ohio would vote for us.”
Wagoner has not said that the Volt would not be built without the loan, and he has not said that the loan would be “only” for the Volt, as clearly it will not. We are just talking about political symbolism, not contracts or commitments, but symbolism is important. The Presidential (and congressional) elections involve real power and money, and lots of it.
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:10 am)Statik is BACK…………………………..
I didn’t think the mellow man could last too long!!!
Did bankrupt Lehman throw you over the edge?
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:10 am)Just something of interest I seen surfing at gminsidenews.com.
GM said the Beat was not coming to NA…but it was tooling around New York on Satruday under heavy Camo. Not sure why, not sure if it means anything but I thought it was interesting.
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f38/us-chevy-dealers-test-driving-beat-69183/
PS) If your still in the financial markets, you probably should check it out. Merril was sold. Lehman is bankrupt. And AIG is out of money and is trying to hit up the fed.. and looking like Lehan did last week, announcing ‘turnaround’ plans..while trying to sell everything but the kitchen sink behind the scenes to not be dissolved…stock is off 40-50% today
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#34 Jim I
Statik is BACK…………………………..
I didn’t think the mellow man could last too long!!!
Hehe, nothing gets me going more than new unsourced information given as fact, but in reality complete conjecture.
Volt is capacity at Hamm @60K…one sentance, no source…then he just moves along like he told us what color the sky is. That is a monster piece of information, move valuable than the whole rest of this article, which leads me to believe one of two things:
A) he made that up based on his own estimates
B) he is a bad journalist and doesn’t know a story when he see it
…either way, it’s bad
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:13 am)Mick #31:
Lets Just Get The Volt Wheels On The Road
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:13 am)GM cares about a lot of things, one of which is public “opinion”.
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:16 am)Lyle,
I’m sure I speak for everyone…Thank you for all you have done!
Break a neuron buddy!
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:17 am)I really think they are trying to undo the botch job they did marketing and producing the EV-1. Had that car been mass produced and all who wanted one were able to buy (not lease) one we all would be better off now. (not 2011). Their image is important and they have only one last chance to get the electric car on the road again.
Take Care,
TED
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:20 am)#35 Statik
Make that, “B) he is a bad journalist and doesn’t know a story when he sees it”
I added in the shoutout to Jim I, and ran out of time to edit it for spelling and such.
/wave
//little errors like that drive me crazy…and the fact it says I have 22 seconds still to edit, but when I hit submit it says “You do not have permission to edit this comment” — GAH!
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:45 am)Congratulations and much thanks to Lyle for his dedication and good work with this website. I hope he is the first to get his hands on a Volt – and I hope that I am close behind. GO VOlt! GO GM!
Now I have to wait for the LA car show in November to actually get to touch a Volt and then wait until I actually get to drive one.
Sep 15th, 2008 (9:51 am)Congrats Lyle on a great site!
statik – Give the guy a break on the production numbers. You can’t source every sentence. He was probably told this by multiple sources and didn’t think it was that big of a deal. Obviously the facility won’t support a million. Does it matter if it can produce 60,000 or 80,000? Plus you can do things to expand or contract production. It’s not a black and white thing.
Let’s write him and ask instead of beating him up.
Sep 15th, 2008 (10:01 am)#34 Statik makes a big deal out of the sentence “Volt is capacity at Hamm @60K…one sentance, no source…then he just moves along like he told us what color the sky is.”
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Maybe you over-heated on this one. Production-wise, the Volt is a variant of the Cruze, and either Volt or Cruze production lines can be expanded quickly enough insofar as the car parts. My opinion is: The limiting factors for the numbers of Volts are the battery availability (on the one side) and sales (on the other side), not the production line capacity. The latter, while more than incidental, is not going to be that big a problem if the other two pieces fall into place.
Sep 15th, 2008 (10:18 am)A little comment on design.
http://jalopnik.com/5048196/commenter-of-the-day-drag-coefficient-edition
even back then they could make a car have a .19 so I dont understand why this car has higher according to a prevous article.
You need to design a car around the aero design not from concept to aero.
Sep 15th, 2008 (10:20 am)Statik@25 said in very small part:
“…A) 60K is max? = IF THIS IS TRUE (a source would be nice), then the Volt is image only, and impossible to get previously ‘planned/guesstimated’ production numbers….”
Help me out here. If 60K is the max for the first year or so and the Volt demand outstrips this production, couldn’t GM build or retool other plants for Volt production?
Be well,
Tag
No plug, No sale. Lets Just Get The Volt Wheels On The Road!!
Sep 15th, 2008 (10:23 am)#42 DonC
statik – Give the guy a break on the production numbers. You can’t source every sentence. He was probably told this by multiple sources and didn’t think it was that big of a deal. Obviously the facility won’t support a million. Does it matter if it can produce 60,000 or 80,000? Plus you can do things to expand or contract production. It’s not a black and white thing.
Let’s write him and ask instead of beating him up.
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I took your advice, I emailed him john.stoll@wsj.com. I’ll report back if I get a answer.
It does matter if the Volt is production capacity is pegged at 60K (allowing for maybe another 10K with extra shifts if they are added).
If GM is only allowing for 60K, they are knowlingly capping production much lower than demand. That means it’s another ‘Kappa’ line situation here…or ‘halo car’ line, GM makes no money, limits production…but the car gives off the image GM desires.
For me in Toronto, knowing that rollout is limited to specific locations and knowing that orders will be taken/prioritized from dealerships directly in the ‘chosen zones’ when production is a reality will be queued first, to say nothing of possible ‘corporate waitlists’ from the area that GM may do as well…that means that I can not reasonably expect to see a Volt for many, many years after 2011.
If production goes like this: 10K (2011)-60K-60K-60K-60K, thats only 250K out by the start of 2016. Initial orders from California alone I would think would be greater than this number. So thats a problem, a big one for me. (Thats not even allowing for all of GM’s committments to bring the Volt to international locations in 2012).
Meaning I shouldn’t even consider a Volt and look elsewhere…as should everyone else not living in California, NY and DC.
I would think reasonable production has to go something like this for anyone outside of those areas other than Lyle to get one:
2011 – 10K (inital confirmed)
2012 – 60K (ramp up)
2013 – 120K (2 lines)
2014 – 150K (2 lines-extra shift)
2015 – 250K (2 lines/Euro line…and start of Volt 2.0 designs)
Anyway, that is my take on it from my location.
Sep 15th, 2008 (10:33 am)#19 Rashiid Amul said “66% of Americans have a very low opinion of American cars. GM really needs to change that.”
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While this is true, it is probably also true that many of those 66% have formed their opinion based upon ‘word of mouth’ rather than by experience.
I really believe GM is trying to change the public’s perception of both their company and the vehicles they manufacture. It is not an easy task to do, especially given what I just said as to how people form their opinions.
Sep 15th, 2008 (10:40 am)#44 Tag
“Help me out here. If 60K is the max for the first year or so and the Volt demand outstrips this production, couldn’t GM build or retool other plants for Volt production?”
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Yes they could do it. A new plant is aprox a 2-3 year process, retooling…maybe 12-18 months. That would be started in…2011? 2012?
The question is not ‘could’ GM…sure they can.
If this is true, planned capacity at 60K, then at that low level GM is intentionally under producing, not anything to do with demand.
GM is touting the Volt as it’s savior, part of the new world order as it where, ‘Prius fighter’…but 60K projected capacity calls all that into questions, as well as GM’s true intentions for the purpose of this car. (Keeping in mind we were still just talking about getting to 60K for 2012 before all this…so it seems dicey as it was).
60K is a number irrelevant to the market, it screams ‘halo car’ It means you (Penn) or I (Canada) will not ever get the opportunity to buy Volt 1.0, unless we buy it from ebay.
/just hashing out my opinion though…as always, I’ll be happy to be wrong on this one
Sep 15th, 2008 (10:41 am)Estero #45.
Perhaps. I was part of the 66% and that was based on a complete POS 1986 Pontiac Sunbird. Since then, I have never bought an American car again. I have heard many people say Americans make junk cars. Some have owned them, while some never have.
But I think the Volt can turn that around.
Sep 15th, 2008 (10:58 am)Statik,
Thanks for reply. Given GM’s financial house, maybe they are prudent to “only” plan on 60K until they KNOW that the Volt will be a success. I don’t think that they can know the actual demand until it gets into showrooms.
As much as I love this site, it is, for the most part, a self-selected population and may not represent the general population (in other words, we’re abnormal -g- some more than others). No?
Be well,
Tag
No plug, No sale. Lets Just Get The Volt Wheels On The Road!!
Sep 15th, 2008 (11:06 am)“So is GM building the Volt because they care, or because they care what you think”
They are building it because, like any corporation, they care about making a profit and staying in business.
I sincerely hope that producing the Volt signals a shift from focusing on the short term planning of immediate profits towards the long term thinking of what it will take to survive in a rapidly changing world.
GM Leadership hasn’t shown much visionary thinking in the past decade or so. Maybe the Volt is an example of new thinking and of what of what lies ahead.
Sep 15th, 2008 (11:11 am)“People are buying Toyota brands based on environmental, fuel economy, quality and cost perceptions. GM must change those perceptions or continue their decline.”
I rented an Aveo on a business trip recently; and own and drive two Priuses.
Those differences between Toyota and GM are not just perception. They’re fact.
Sep 15th, 2008 (11:12 am)Totally OT, but one of the computers at the LHC was hacked into. Fortunately, not one that was actually attached to the collider.
Tag
No plug, No sale. Lets Just Get The Volt Wheels On The Road!!
Sep 15th, 2008 (11:24 am)We look forward with anticipation to the unveiling. Lyle, will the event be available on the gm-volt site after the event is over for those unable to watch it live? I hope so. Good luck and thanks for all the work, Lyle.
Sep 15th, 2008 (11:27 am)48 Tagamet – We’re not abnormal – we’re Volt fanboys. We live it, breathe it, why, we would collect Volt trading cards if GM made them. We know a million times more about the Volt than the average Joe – and that’s what worries me.
How many people out there (not us) still believe the Volt only goes 40 miles on its battery, then stops dead in its tracks ? How many know what the Volt truly is ? I wonder….
At least, the GM Centennial should be interresting. I’ll have to catch the instant replay tonight.
Sep 15th, 2008 (11:35 am)I got a reply from John Stoll (author of this WSJ article), on his 60K number, here it is:
Thx for the note. I do have a source on this indeed. Have you heard something else? John
“The UAW contract says there will be at least 3 vehicles at Hamtramck, including two off the Volt (Delta) platform. Initially, 60k vehicles is approximately 1/3rd of the total capacity of that plant, so the math backs up the sourcing.
That said, GM could quickly move to add much more Volt IF demand were to warrant it. Lordstown, Ohio, will also be able to build Delta-based cars. GM believes that if this thing takes off, it will be very very important to have many plants capable of building EREVs. The 60k number could be hardly enough, or a massive misplaced bet – time will tell.
Listen, trust me on the sourcing on this. It’s as golden as it gets.
John”
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This is my reply:
Hi John,
Thank you very your timely reply. It helps to suss out the whole picture on the puzzle pieces on the Volt.
Although I know that the next gen Opel Zafira is slated to start on one of those lines in late 09, they would have practically have to cut production of another vehicle that has hardly hit the market to expand it. And if I’m not mistaken the Epsilon II next-generation Malibu get the other line in 2011? No way the Malibu gets bumped is there?
Statik
(Resident pessimist at GM-volt.com)
—-Didn’t get into the Lordstown, Ohio part as it is going ‘to the wall’ producing Cobalt (and then Cruzes) at a profit…so that seems unlikely to be a future site of the Volt
Sep 15th, 2008 (11:38 am)Go Lyle, thank you so much for your website,I think we have hit on the correct slogan —no plug no sale—lets all start using it tell your friends and neighbors get everybody to use it, I like it better than mine which was– I’m never buying another new gas car—NO PLUG NO SALE
Sep 15th, 2008 (11:43 am)Where do I sign up for a low gov. loan everybody else is doing it
Sep 15th, 2008 (11:50 am)Well, I’m not going to gloat BUT:
1) Some of us always knew that the volt was only for show and image and not for production and profit (yes, Virginia, 60k cars AIN”T NUTTIN’ but Santa Claus)
2) At those production numbers it will DEFINITELY be a $40k car and not for anyone other than early adopters and rich smuggers as I said)
PS I officially claim ownership to the origin of the term “smugger” SMUGGER; noun, a smug tree-hugger.
Sep 15th, 2008 (11:55 am)#46 Static
Good point Static. I harbor the same concerns. The new styling encouraged me though. The fact that GM went for more mainline styling suggests to me they are wanting the Volt to be for the masses. If they only intended it for a “halo car,” I think they’d have gone for something that looked more distinctive like the concept car.
So here’s me, hoping that I’m right….
Sep 15th, 2008 (11:57 am)Horse and pony show to get uncle sam to bail GM out.
Why would GM be so concerned about 150,000 mile batteries??
MOst people today are happy if they get 100k miles out of their standard GM cars.
GMs best brand (cadillac) only give a 50K mile / 4 yr warranty. cadillacs start at $40k and can go over $70K.
The 150K mile warranty is GMs attempt to delay production to try to get some sucker investers
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:01 pm)#57 biodieseiljeep
It is too early to gloat. It makes you sound smug. If my team is leading after the first period, I’d wait to celebrate until after the game ended. As far as the Volt goes, the game doesn’t even start until late 2010.
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:07 pm)A Ford spokesperson said that if we just substitute imported batteries for imported oil, then we haven’t solved anything. We really need to get the batteries and pack assemblies manufactured in the US.
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:07 pm)Thom #59.
I have 171,000 miles on my car and I hope it goes another 100,000 miles. The way it runs, I would not be remotely surprised to see 300,000 miles in that car.
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:11 pm)#54 statik
I got more or less the same reply but I was actually working so I couldn’t beat you to it! LOL John did say that if I did I could look really smart knowing about the UAW contract, which of course I had no idea about.
As for Lordstown, it seems like the UAW wants different cars made in the same plant. If the magic number is three, the Cruze and the Volt could be made side by side in both Ohio and Michigan. Also, if demand proves overwhelming, I find it hard to believe that the contract couldn’t be changed.
Personally I don’t think this is a very big issue. I’ve never heard of plant capacity ultimately limiting the number of vehicles a company can produce. Fortunately or unfortunately, they can always make more cars than they can sell.
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:12 pm)everyone talking about this wonderful waitlist…
one, its an email list… one that a good portion of the emails will be duplicates (address changes) and closed accounts..being in the email list business myself.. I can tell you that is how it works,, never mind all the people who have been asking to be removed or will be asking to when they see the ugly new car is nothing like the one they signed up for.
two, with no money put down its more of a tell me when it comes out list..most people on it are dreamers and will never buy..and just like the look of the CONCEPT
three, and most importantly.. It was based on a VASTLY different automobile. Its like saying Im interested in buying the porsche please,,and then when all is said and done being asked to give money for the porsche but getting a pinto with a porsche sticker instead and told.. It really is the same car you know..cant you see the porsche sticker on the side..
p.s.
didnt that other electric car have like an 8000 person real waiting list and when gm called it like 50 were ready to put there money where there mouth was…
p.s.s
why is that other concept car still on the main banner for this page.. change it to the ugly new version if the car if it is so great and sucha good seller… gm blew it as usual.. face it..
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:19 pm)I can hardly wait to tsee the unveiling tomorrow. Yes I am one of those people ZEN #53 is talking about. I am still trying to find out which dealers in Florida might have a slim chance to get a volts so I know where to put my deposit. If so few are going to be made, It makes me all that much more certain that I want to be one of the ones who gets one. Remeber GM No Plug-No Sale
Take Care,
TED
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:20 pm)#64
Phil, Phil, Phil (me shaking my head).
Have you been away on vacation?
GM bashing was last week’s topic. This week, we are maintaining a positive attitude.
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:25 pm)ThombDbhomb@60 said in regard to biodieseiljeep @59
“It is too early to gloat. It makes you sound smug. If my team is leading after the first period, I’d wait to celebrate until after the game ended. As far as the Volt goes, the game doesn’t even start until late 2010″
—————————————————————————————————————–
I totally agree. It might even be like the August football practices (the hard work) prior to the season even starting.
biodieseiljeep – if you are a treehugger (or smugger), why are you rooting against the Volt?
It also looks like GM has the ability to expand Volt production pretty significantly, except as someone mentioned, the batteries.
Tomorrow, it will be extremely interesting to hear what the people who did “Who killed the electric car?” have to say.
Be well,
Tag
No plug, No sale. Lets Just Get The Volt Wheels On The Road!!
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:29 pm)#57 biodieseiljeep
GM has always said 60,000 in the first year. Now we know they have a production facility that will produce 60,000. Seems entirely consistent.
FWIW Lutz has also said production after the first year is an open question and that GM will be making one million E-FLEX cars a year in ten years. This hardly depresses me. What am I missing?
As for “Smuggers” I think Lutz has been explicit that this is the market GM needs to target. He has also said that this is because they have higher educational levels, and so much as said because they have higher incomes.
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:31 pm)Zen@53
Pssst, I can score some neat Volt trading cards…(lol).
I have the alarm set for 6 a.m. so I can get warmed up for the webcast – get my T-shirt on and all (g).
Be well,
Tag
No plug, No sale. Lets Just Get The Volt Wheels On The Road!!
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:44 pm)38 # Ted in Fort Myers
I really think they are trying to undo the botch job they did marketing and producing the EV-1. Had that car been mass produced and all who wanted one were able to buy (not lease) one we all would be better off now. (not 2011).
We collectively would be better off. If GM could have gotten unit costs down they’d be smackin Toyota around like a rag doll. Then again, if mass production of EV-1s proved to be expensively problematic, they’d be bankrupt about now. Big gamble for a company that hasn’t followed through on big non-mandated risks since the Corvair.
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:46 pm)#57 biodieseiljeep
To be fair to you, I’m revising my “game” analogy. I’ll concede that the game has started wrt fuel efficient auto market share. But, the game is hardly “in the bag.”
Statik and DonC.
Thanks for delving deeper.
Tag
We cool?
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:55 pm)ThombDbhomb@71 said, in part:
“…Tag
We cool?”
Cool as the underside of the pillow. (That’s country talk for “Cool”). We share the same goal.
Be well,
Tag
No plug, No sale. Lets Just Get The Volt Wheels On The Road!!
Sep 15th, 2008 (12:58 pm)#72 Tagamet
That’s finer than a frog’s hair split in two!
Sep 15th, 2008 (1:02 pm)Get the lipstick on and let’s get this show on the road! I am Looking forward to this milestone and more to come!
Sep 15th, 2008 (1:12 pm)ThombDbhomb@73 said:
“#72 Tagamet
That’s finer than a frog’s hair split in two!”
****************************************************************
It’s better that we’re in the same tent peeing out, than outside the tent peein in.
No plug, No sale. Lets Just Get The Volt Wheels On The Road!!
Sep 15th, 2008 (1:18 pm)This is an easy question.
Everyone below Lutz is doing it because they care – they want to see as many sold as possible.
Everyone above Lutz is doing it because they care what you think and don’t really want to sell electric cars and are only doing so because they are desperate. I expect they want to sell as few \Volts as they can get away with as they would rather sell any other (read: higher margin) vehicle but that.
Lutz is doing it because he is Maximum Bob and was beaten to the punch by Tesla.
He wants it to be a “success” but it is unclear how many cars that would actuallly be: somewhere in-between as many as possible and as few as possible, probably.
No Plug, no sale. All electric drivetrain or no sale, either. I can’t think of a catchy phrase for that, though.
Sep 15th, 2008 (1:50 pm)no plug no sale
Sep 15th, 2008 (1:52 pm)So is GM building the Volt because they care, or because they care what you think?
GM cares… to make money. They are releasing the Volt because they are in hard times, and they see it as a solution to several problems:
1) GM isn’t green. Hummer and the homicide (or would it be genocide?) of the EV1 has taken much of GMs green image away. The Volt can be added to their current line of hybrids. But the fact remains that environmentalists are still a minority, so lets move on to the real issue:
2) GM can’t sell traditional easy-money trucks anymore. Cars are selling, but they aren’t money makers. They need a new technology, something fresh and desirable by all people (something that can use, but doesn’t require, gas).
3) GM can’t compete with the Prius. By beating Toyota to EREV, GM will finally take the lead position with the most fuel efficient, green production car in the US.
4) This is what I really think GM is using the Volt for. Bailout. GM has made a lot of publicity about the Volt. They are trying to prove to Washington that their company is worth bailing out, since they are dangling this promise of EREV that no other company is talking about. The government will not bail out GM because they are a dirty, polluting industry. They will bail them out because they are on the edge of releasing a crazy fuel efficient, made in USA, optional zero-emission vehicle.
But as Dr. House says, motives aren’t relevant. The obvious end motive in capitalism is to make money. And if that motive brings out a superior vehicle, I’m all for it.
Sep 15th, 2008 (1:55 pm)#9 Jim I
“…..that the old model is not going to work in their second century”
I like the sound of that “second century” wording. Maybe GM should use something like that in their advertising.
GENERAL MOTORS – THE SECOND CENTURY
Sep 15th, 2008 (2:14 pm)No more oil wars. No plug no sale.
Sep 15th, 2008 (2:22 pm)I sense the usual lack of reality when it comes to gas, energy and
electric cars. Do the simple math and you’ll see that 1 million plug-ins like the Volt can avoid approximately 1/5th of 1 percent of the crude oil this nation consumes, even if none of them uses any gasoline whatsoever. If Obama’s dreams of a million electrics on the road by 2015 (at a cost of $7 billion dollars, if all million are subsidized) includes beliefs that there will be an effect on oil prices, he’s living yet another fantasy. Unfortunately, the public is probably just as clueless. Certainly the media doesn’t know anything. About anything (other than Britney Spears latest problems).
Sep 15th, 2008 (2:23 pm)The electric car is here to stay. I notice that gas is at an all time high even though oil is less than $100 / bbl.
The batteries will be more powerful over the next few years, and maybe GM will cinsider giving one exchange free as part of the purchase price.
That would certainly boost interest in the Volt.
Those touting public transit as the way to go, don’t understand the current revolution. The Volt will make the commute very pleasant. And the range extender will certainly alleviate any fears about driving slightly longer distances between charges. All in all a well thought out product.
Sep 15th, 2008 (2:43 pm)kent@81
One question: How do we get the second and third million plugins on the road, without getting the first million plugins on the road? “When it comes to gas, energy and electric cars” that IS the reality.
Be well,
Tag
No plug, No sale. Lets Just Get The Volt Wheels On The Road!!
Sep 15th, 2008 (2:46 pm)According to GM the year 2006 production of the Hamtramck plant was: 115,452 Buick Lucerne and 56,682 Cadillac DTS. Clearly, the plant is capable of 170,000 cars a year. If they are keeping the Lucerne line you would get about 60K cars a year. If demand arises, however, they can ramp up to 170,000 or so without having to build or convert another site.
http://www.gmdynamic.com/company/gmability/environment/plants/facility_db/facility_summary.php?fID=114
Sep 15th, 2008 (2:49 pm)Lyle:
Have a great time at the Centennial event and let us all know every minute detail about the Volt. As always, thanks for your tireless efforts here!
Sep 15th, 2008 (3:21 pm)#64 DonC
#54 statik
I got more or less the same reply but I was actually working so I couldn’t beat you to it!
—-
My attention is spotty at best as well…I couldn’t even come back until the market closed today. It’s a rough one today.
Biggest drop since 9/11 if I’m not mistaken…well a few days later, when it reopened anyway. (I had a Nov QQQ butterfly going at the time, was good…and very bad, all at the same time). Today, nothing at all involved.
I’m probably gone the rest of the day from gm-volt.com, will take me a few hours just to go referee/clean up some old threads of people saying ‘I told you so’ on the markets…and start some new discussions/polls of interest…stir the pot as it were.
So take this opportunity to really bring some optimism while I’m gone…Tag can help you with that one, hehe.
Sep 15th, 2008 (3:31 pm)#81 kent beuchert
The whole thing will take twenty years, and on first blush you could reach the conclusion, advocated by you here, that EVs won’t matter. However, you have to start, and you’re not going to start with 5 million vehicles a year. (“A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step” and all that). 60000 is a great first step, especially since you have parallel hybrids and so forth coming on line as well.
Also don’t be fooled into mistaking the number of cars for the miles driven. If you have an EV and an ICE car parked in the driveway, which one are you going to take to the store? EV miles will displace ICE miles much faster than EV vehicles displace ICE vehicles.
If you want to be math oriented, let’s look at twenty years. Assume 0% of the cars in years 1-5 are EV, 10% of the cars in years 5-10 are EV, and 20% of the cars in years 11-15, and 50% of the cars in years 15-20. Assuming that EV miles replace ICE miles in a ratio of 2:1, in year twenty half (50%) of the miles driven will be EV miles.
This is conservative and does not account for an aggressive program like that advocated by Obama (or McCain I’d think), nor does it take into account the new CAFE standards which will drop the gas consumption of the new ICE vehicles. Can you say bye-bye OPEC?
Sep 15th, 2008 (3:38 pm)#86 statik
I’ll do my best to be the optimistic!
I used to have a very reliable indicator of the market. I had a friend in Fort Dodge, Iowa, who hung out with the doctors and dentists there. They were the perfect contra-indicator. When they were jumping in with both feet it was time to stop. When they bailed it was time to get back in. They were so perfect it was scary, kinda like the battery pack for the Volt! LOL
He’s not there anymore so I’m stuck without my compass so to speak. However I think there is panic in the streets, and that, coupled with the crowing of the “I told you so” crowd, suggests it’s not a bad time to start thinking about getting in.
Sep 15th, 2008 (3:41 pm)#88 DonC
This is conservative and does not account for an aggressive program like that advocated by Obama (or McCain I’d think), nor does it take into account the new CAFE standards which will drop the gas consumption of the new ICE vehicles. Can you say bye-bye OPEC?
—–
I think OPEC is already on pretty shaky ground…especially with the Saudi’s always wild carding everything they seem to say/do, lol.
Alot of production has been brought on elsewhere in the world during the run up/good times and if this is a US/global recession we are entering (some would say depression in the US), we could have a over capacity situation…at least in the sense that OPEC can continue to assert itself over the market in any meaningful way.
/didn’t I say I was going?
Sep 15th, 2008 (3:53 pm)#89 DonC
#86 statik
I’ll do my best to be the optimistic!
I used to have a very reliable indicator of the market. I had a friend in Fort Dodge, Iowa, who hung out with the doctors and dentists there. They were the perfect contra-indicator. When they were jumping in with both feet it was time to stop. When they bailed it was time to get back in. They were so perfect it was scary, kinda like the battery pack for the Volt! LOL
He’s not there anymore so I’m stuck without my compass so to speak. However I think there is panic in the streets, and that, coupled with the crowing of the “I told you so” crowd, suggests it’s not a bad time to start thinking about getting in.
———–
That is funny…and so unbelievably true about doctors/dentists. (Not all..don’t want to offend our resident professionals…I’m sure it doesn’t count neurologists either).
As for myself, I’m not ready to get back in…I’ve been essentially out other than a few dabbles here and there for well over a year. Even bought a much smaller house to not take a loss on my primary residence, lol…although it hasn’t happened yet in Canada (year over year sales are flat). I’m in a position now where my life is pretty decent, so I’m being conservative for the first time in my life…which doesn’t feel too bad.
For me, I think my trigger is waiting to see if the housing/commercial real estate market stabilizes before inflation et al forces the fed to raise rates…or at least I get ‘the vibe’ that it is on the way to it. (Even considering the talk of 1 more cut in the works, I think it’s going to turn around pretty fast).
/ok, I’m really off now, enjoy your evenings
Sep 15th, 2008 (5:02 pm)#47 Rashiid Amul
Please understand; I was not taking a shot at either you or anyone else.
I believe the 66% you mentioned is fairly accurate. All I was trying to do in this discussion is to remind ourselves how difficult a job GM has in trying to turn consumer opinions around.
I agree with you; I think the Volt can turn that around. If this doesn’t do it, then it is hard to imagine what will.
Take care!
Sep 15th, 2008 (5:05 pm)#81 kent beuchert:
Well, of course the \Volt itself won’t make an impact in US oil consumption. What I think it will do is make it cheaper to implement \Volt 2.0 and THAT will make it cheaper to implement \Volt 3.0… As the price of the tech comes down, then the entire game changes. At some point there will be a crossover where it becomes more expensive to dirve an ICE car than an electric one. THAT is the point where it will really start to make huge changes in oil consumption.
Hybrids are almost to that point, now. It’s taken over 10 years, but Honda (with arguably one of the simplest systems) thinks their new models will make it cost effective for the consumer to choose the hybrid over a traditional ICE powered car. (eg, something like it will pay off during a lease or loan period, not a decade). Of course, the models and pricing aren’t out, yet, but I’d imagine they’re pretty close. The Prius isn’t quite as close. How close are they? Maybe another 5 years, I’d guess? (Possibly they will be after the cobasys patents expire…)
In any case, it’s going to take maybe 10-20 years for the crossover where electrics are cheaper than ICE vehicles. It’ll be worth it!
Sep 15th, 2008 (5:08 pm)I still see that GM has the problem stuck in their heads that they have the rep of putting out Junk . Yes I know the battery is not fully tested but does it xplode? Perhaps they should try using a tryed type and getting the car out NOW , excuse the excesses . But some of us want something better now .
P.S.
Put in a nicad pack with it running the jack and lug wrench .
Perhaps even a small compressor .
God Bless
Edwin Mang Jr.
Sep 15th, 2008 (5:12 pm)Will see you all in the morning. I cannot wait to see the final release. Thanks Lyle for all you have done for us, the country and GM. See you.
Take Care,
TED
Sep 15th, 2008 (6:43 pm)#91 Estero,
Estero, my friend, it takes a lot to offend me.
There are no issues here, honest.
I was just mentioning that I belong to that group but will buy a Volt because I believe in it.
Once upon a time I owned a Chevy Nova. A fantastic car. I liked it so much, when it was time to buy my first new car, I knew I was going to stay loyal to GM. Fresh out of college, I bought a 1986 Pontiac Sunbird.
That was the last American car I bought. 2011 or 2012 will be the next time I buy a GM. But based on my experience with the Pontiac, 25-26 years will have passed (and many cars) where I could have bought American but didn’t. Obviously now, but unbeknown to me during that time, I was in the majority with the 66%
Sep 15th, 2008 (6:45 pm)I know this comment is way down on the list now but I have a great idea for GM.
Free bumper stickers to all those on the Volt waiting list that say “My next car will have a plug!”
I am trying to get the most out of my 95 Saturn SL2 before getting something new. Trying to hold off for the Volt.
But sexy looking Mazada 6 cars and the new A4 are very appealing to my ego. (sad truth). I hope the volt looks better then those leaked pictures. I was hoping I could have both worlds! Sexy electric car… or is that tradmarked by Tesla?
Sep 15th, 2008 (8:02 pm)—
So is GM building the Volt because they care, or because they care what you think ?
—
Depends on what you mean by care – more particularly care about what. I’m sure the execs care about their luxury yachts and private jets.
At least with Bob Lutz we know what he “thinks”.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02/13/gms-bob-lutz-global-warming-is-a-total-crock-of-sh-t/
—–
Through interviews of our own GM-Volt.com reader ship, the story pointed out that there are many out there who have bought Toyotas and other brands before, who never considered GM products, who are now patiently awaiting their Volts, among the nearly 41,000 others on our waiting list.
—–
I’m sure most of the folks will get another EV / Serial Hybrid – if it comes along before we can get hold of volt (or if its too costly).
Sep 15th, 2008 (10:44 pm)GXT # 24
“First off, the waitlist is meaningless. It appears delusional when you think otherwise (like when nasaman puts an ATT:GM line in bold in his posts), so I would encourage you to stop mentioning it and let the healing begin.
They are doing the Volt because:
1) PR – Trying to justify bailouts, trying to distract from past mistakes, trying to distract from current vehicles.
2) Prius-envy
3) Horrible financial situation – May as well do whatever crazy money-losing scheme you want as it really doesn’t matter anymore.”
*** *** ***
I’ve long promised that I would not “feed”, in fact I coined the now standard acronym. This is borderline but WTF so here goes.
Support Toyota all you want. The future is all about those who take chances and have guts. Where was it ever that foreign vehicles were ever welcome in Japan?? Where?? Bailouts…a pittance compared to what Japan INC has supplied over the years to their prize corporations on the “verge” of world domination. Does anyone think that this is a LEVEL playing ground?
Take a deep breath and THINK!
Sep 16th, 2008 (11:24 am)#61 RichardG
“A Ford spokesperson said that if we just substitute imported batteries for imported oil, then we haven’t solved anything. We really need to get the batteries and pack assemblies manufactured in the US.”
Not true.
If every passenger vehicle in the US were electric we would not have to import ANY petroleum. That would be a stunning accomplishment.
It would be true regardless where the batteries were manufactured.
Sep 16th, 2008 (7:15 pm)“The nearly 41,000 others on our waiting list.”
I think that may have been before the car’s style changed from a Lotus to a Cobalt seemingly overnight!