Sep 07

Lutz: No One Will Get a Volt Earlier than 2010

 

One of the most frequent emails I get from folks is a request to be test drivers for pre-production Chevy Volts.  I would say many of us here, myself included, would love to get their hands on an early Volt and enjoy the ride.

It is known that as GM moves closer to the launch of Volt sales in 2010 they are developing more and more refined pre-production prototypes in ever increasing numbers.  It has been reported that a significant sized fleet of these cars will be on the roads by the end of next year.

Rumors have also arisen that Chevy dealers could get prototype shells as early as next year as showroom bait, something that GM officials and leading Chevy dealerships deny any knowledge of.

As to whether anyone outside of GM will able able to get their hands on a Volt prior to launch, GM vice chair Bob Lutz has apparently laid down the law:

“We’ll start releasing (the car) to the public in November of 2010. No one, no one, will get one any earlier.”

Source (DailyTech)

This entry was posted on Sunday, September 7th, 2008 at 8:07 am and is filed under Release Date. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.

COMMENTS: 126


  1. 1
    NZDavid

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (8:21 am)

    Well it must be true if he said that wearing his pink tie.


  2. 2
    Bob LutzLier

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (8:40 am)

    Lutz is a guy who put foot in his mouth on a daily basis, he can’t be trusted, just like Obama/Biden. The only reason they have Volt is to use it as a leverage to get low interest loan from taxpayers. Volt may cost them 500 millions (maybe less, who knows), and they can save much more by securing 30 billion loan, instead of paying 14% market rate, they pay 3% in three years, they can save 30*0.11*3, close to 10 billion in savings.


  3. 3
    Jeff

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (8:48 am)

    This would be a departure from past policy for new GM models. Some employees usually get to drive the new models for a few weeks before it is released.


  4. 4
    Nelson

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (9:15 am)

    He shouldn’t lock himself and GM with a statement like that. If no one buys or leases a new GM vehicle from now until January 2010 because they’re waiting to buy a Volt, I’ll bet Lutz will have to change his statement.


  5. 5
    MarkFLL

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (9:16 am)

    #2 Bob LutzLier

    “Lutz is a guy who put foot in his mouth on a daily basis, he can’t be trusted, just like Obama/Biden.”

    I guess it’s safe to assume you voted for Bush…both times.


  6. 6
    Dremm

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (9:26 am)

    @Bob LutzLier

    So the Volt is just a sham for GM to get loans, and Barack Obama is the key to this years-long conspiracy?

    Are Republican shills really becoming this desperate? A 5 year old could make up better stories that that.

    So you’re saying that YEARS before the large-car and truck market crashed to put GM in a terrible financial state, even before Obama even started his campaign for presidency (19 months ago), GM came up with the Volt in order to get these loans?

    So I guess GM’s fully knew that the large car and truck market was going to crash, and that the only remaining Presidential candidate Not suffering from early-stage age-related dementia would say he was open to discussing such loans?

    Wow, you REALLY need to take off the tinfoil hat.


  7. 7
    Nelson

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (9:27 am)

    Someone on YouTube is promoting a Global campaign against the auto industry. Their presumption is if the public stops buying or leasing New gas only cars, the auto industry will have no other choice than to abandon that production and concentrate on the production of EV’s and Fuel cell cars.


  8. 8
    Statik

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (9:30 am)

    As to whether anyone outside of GM will able able to get their hands on a Volt prior to launch, GM vice chair Bob Lutz has apparently laid down the law:

    “We’ll start releasing (the car) to the public in November of 2010. No one, no one, will get one any earlier.”

    ——–

    Big surprise there! I wonder why?
    Because you won’t have any to release!

    In other news the sun will not rise at 3:00 AM tomorrow morning and I will not be receiving my ‘Monsanto Home of the Future” anytime soon either.

    I’ve been waiting forever to link up the Monsanto Home of the Future (naturally everything was made of plastic…because that’s what they made, lol).

    part 1
    http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=DoCCO3GKqWY

    part2
    http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=lVMAeSNZZz0


  9. 9
    Carcus

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (9:37 am)

    All right, being that this one’s going political so early,

    Ron Paul and several others (in Pt. II) weigh in on the federal reserve, loans, and the new socialism.

    Pt. I
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5vEM-FlMtg
    Pt. II
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD11WJpJvSg&feature=related

    (seems to be a slow load, might have to wait several minutes to watch it)
    —————————-
    DAM–BIATSH!
    Don’t Ask for Money–Build It And They’ll Stop Hating


  10. 10
    nuclearboy

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (9:48 am)

    At least he is still saying they will start releasing the car in Nov 2010. We probably won’t have Lyle driving one early but at least the car appears to be on schedule.

    SoapBox:
    On another note, Lutz makes a good point to consider from the article on the crash testing issue. I agree totally with him. The standards should be relaxed immediately so that little cars from foreign markets can be brought to the US right away. These cars would save gas and some would buy them. This would be good for all of us as it would reduce the demand for oil. The Crash data from Insurance company testing would still get published and people could decide if the risk is worth it. Put a warning sticker on it if you must. The point is, let the people have a choice. It is a logical inconsistency that people can choose to take the risk and buy a motorcycle or a scooter or some 3 wheeled contraption (which are categorized as motorbikes) to save money and gas. However, if they want a little more stability and they want to be out of the rain and have 4 wheels, the vehicle must pass some govt crash standards.

    Get the Govt. out of the way and let people put cheap cars on the road. Maybe we could have some additional US startup companies selling cars (like Aptera).


  11. 11
    Dave99

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (9:55 am)

    2. Bob LutzLier (or Liar?)

    “The only reason they have Volt is to use it as a leverage to get low interest loan from taxpayers. Volt may cost them 500 millions (maybe less, who knows), and they can save much more by securing 30 billion loan, instead of paying 14% market rate, they pay 3% in three years, they can save 30*0.11*3, close to 10 billion in savings.”

    Or maybe they are working on the Volt because it has the potential to greatly reduce CO2 emissions and have an impact on global warming? I believe the Volt concept was introduced much before the talk of low interest loans.

    “Lutz is a guy who put foot in his mouth on a daily basis, he can’t be trusted, just like Obama/Biden”

    I’m sure many of us would say the same thing about the GOP ticket, but let’s leave politics for a different forum, ok?


  12. 12
    statik

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (9:58 am)

    I hope this thread becomes really, really political…that is always a treat.

    Maybe I’ll take DonC’s advice and start yammering on about Fannie and Freddie/Insurable events to make it really, super exciting.


  13. 13
    william o'neill

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (10:00 am)

    I am really interested in getting an electric car and will do so,even if
    it costs more because I am sick of sending MY MONEY, every week
    to fund Chavez, the Russians and the Arabs! I recently had a conversation with an ex-GM executive. The reason it is taking so long
    for them to have the Volt is because the battery fails 100% of the time
    and it burns up! The supplier is a Troy based company and cannot
    manufacture the battery in production based numbers. It will take that
    long for GM to re-engineer their manufacturing process. Everyone needs to keep on eye on the battery.The rest of the car is ready, but
    without a battery, there is NO power source.


  14. 14
    Carcus

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (10:06 am)

    #13 O’neill,

    “I recently had a conversation with an ex-GM executive. The reason it is taking so long for them to have the Volt is because the battery fails 100% of the time and it burns up!”
    ————————-
    That, of course, is potentially devastating news (if it’s true).

    Do you have any more details on this conversation?

    [Rumor control - - - clean up on isle 13, clean up on isle 13]


  15. 15
    Mike D

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (10:26 am)

    #13, i find that hard to believe. Batteries close to that side exist already in warehouse machines like fork lifts, and they work fine. Is there a mysterious “battery combustion point” ? When you make a pack big enough for the Volt, it becomes radioactive and unstable!!! Bob Lutz drove a volt prototype inside an old malibu shell, he must have burned alive! I had a hunch that the picture at the top of this thread was REALLY his clone, made by GM to cover it all up! It’s a CONSPIRACY! Hide your children!


  16. 16
    Tagamet

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (10:47 am)

    Statik@12
    Might as well open up the hydrogen fuel cell cr@p too.
    The first one to bite on the (LL) troll can blame himself (I know I do).
    I’m not checking the Notify box on this one – and it’s EARLY.
    Sad. This is a VOLT SITE GUYS.
    Be well,
    Tag

    LJGTVWOTR!!”


  17. 17
    Carcus

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (10:56 am)

    In the history of new automobile products, is it typical for “no one, no one” to be able to drive it prior to public release?

    —————–
    DAM–BIATSH!!


  18. 18
    Alex Williams

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:12 am)

    #13 – “I recently had a conversation with an ex-GM executive.”

    I can understand why he/she is an EX GM executive.


  19. 19
    George K

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:15 am)

    “We’ll start releasing (the car) to the public in November of 2010. No one, no one, will get one any earlier.”

    I believe that Lutz is talking about taking the car home. I still think that Lyle is going to have a test run before 2010, and we’ll be reading about the results on this site.


  20. 20
    canehdian

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:21 am)

    Yeah, I’m pretty sure people like Lyle would get a drive. He means random Joe Blow out there who wants to test drive. Media outlets always get these things ahead of actual release.
    I remember watching a segment on Daily Planet about how different manufacturers would have a big event with all sorts of press people and have them drive their cars around a track and grade them on various aspects so they could write about them.
    Now, GM way want to keep the volt more secret than that, but I wouldn’t see the harm in letting Lyle get behind the wheel :p


  21. 21
    Tagamet

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:23 am)

    George K@19 said:
    “We’ll start releasing (the car) to the public in November of 2010. No one, no one, will get one any earlier.”
    I believe that Lutz is talking about taking the car home. I still think that Lyle is going to have a test run before 2010, and we’ll be reading about the results on this site.

    That would definitely be their best bet. I hope that means that we should rule it out (g).
    Be well,
    Tag
    LJGTVWOTR!!”


  22. 22
    Grizzly

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:24 am)

    #18

    #13 – “I recently had a conversation with an ex-GM executive.”

    I can understand why he/she is an EX GM executive.”

    *** *** ***

    And people wonder why GM felt the need to put up a rumor control website. ;)


  23. 23
    TED in Fort Myers

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:26 am)

    We need to get Chevron-Texaco out of the battery business. They suck at it. That being said assuming a Troy based company cannot make Liion batteries how about making NiMH batteries. They worked ten years ago. They are still working in Toyota RAV-4 EVs so I cannot/will not believe the batteries fail 100% of the time.


  24. 24
    Carcus

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:29 am)

    #19 George K,

    Lyle posts,
    “As to whether anyone outside of GM will able able to get their hands on a Volt prior to launch, GM vice chair Bob Lutz has apparently laid down the law:”

    You say:
    “I believe that Lutz is talking about taking the car home.”

    Puh-leeze….


  25. 25
    250volt

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:33 am)

    I wish Canadians would quit thinking they have a say in US politics


  26. 26
    kent beuchert

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:39 am)

    I can see Lutz’s point – this isn’t a car that has a mature, tested drivetrain and there may be changes up til production startup.
    The last thing GM needs is a bunch of blabbermouths driving the car and reporting to the world any problems. The media is simply too irresponsible and desperate for stories to be trusted. They are also exceedingly dumb, as we here have all witnessed firsthand over the past year.


  27. 27
    kent beuchert

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:40 am)

    Canadians don’t even have a say in Canadian politics!


  28. 28
    Dave G

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:42 am)

    A year or two isn’t going to make a big difference to me. I can wait until 2011. The bigger issue is that GM is on a very aggressive schedule with the Volt. Let’s hope they can ramp up production volume quickly…


  29. 29
    Dave G

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:47 am)

    #23 TED in Fort Myers Says: “… how about making NiMH batteries. They worked ten years ago. They are still working in Toyota RAV-4 EVs so I cannot/will not believe the batteries fail 100% of the time.”
    ————————————————————————————-
    Chevron bought the patents on NiMH, and they won’t allow NiMH to be used in any car that doesn’t use gas. Obviously, they want us to consume more oil. So don’t expect this to change.

    But also note that Li/Ion is half the size and half the weight of NiMH, and no oil companies yet own the patents. So that’s the good news…


  30. 30
    MarkH

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:48 am)

    #23 “We need to get Chevron-Texaco out of the battery business.” ExxonMobile have been running ads that say they are working on hybrid batteries. Yea only to lock them up so EV’s can’t use them, then they show a picture of a golf cart size car, like that is something I would give my Harley up for, right!

    #13 ” The supplier is a Troy based company and cannot
    manufacture the battery in production based numbers.” The only troy based battery maker was Cobasys, and really those batteries in the Saturn VUE were fine, I have over 23,000 Miles on my Hybrid VUE and have not had a problem. There is a recall on the battery since some leaked but it is not bursting in to flames. I have not changed mine out yet since I have not had the time, but it works great, I wish GM would make more mild Hybrids running the engine at stop lights is stupid.

    Some have commented that GM has not sold many hybrids, that is true what they don’t tell is they sell everyone they make, try finding one. Cobasys has not been delivering the batteries thanks to Chevron, who really thought that a oil company would want to make batteries, just like Exxon is really trying to help the environment by locking up patents for Lion batteries.


  31. 31
    Anthony BC

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:59 am)

    That’s OK, I’ll take my VOLT in January 2011!

    BTW, my batteries blow up at the end of every month if I don’t change them. I just make sure that I change them before they reach critical mass! :-)

    GO GM, GO VOLT for 2010!


  32. 32
    George K

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:04 pm)

    One reason GM is cautious is they don’t want to have a bad press event, which would hit newspapers across the country w/i hours. Though this didn’t happen with Toyota, below is an interesting read regarding some members of the press invited to drive PHEV Prii.

    “While my all-too-brief run was relatively uneventful, other journalists weren’t as fortunate. Apparently the number 3 car had something of a software glitch. If the driver started off quickly, immediately engaging the IC engine, he would have to slow the car to around 20 mph for it to slip back into EV-only mode. The LA Times’ Martin Zimmerman found this problematic, noting that it would make the car’s electric-only feature useless on the mean streets — and freeways — of his adopted city. He wondered why the car didn’t drop back into electric car mode more quickly after hard acceleration.

    A couple other experienced automotive journalists also noted the same problem, so Mr. Asakura, who was overseeing the event, agreed to let them try a different car, which apparently did respond properly. The consensus among Toyota’s engineering staff was that the hard acceleration at the start may have drained the battery just enough so the car needed a run in hybrid mode longer in order to recharge the pack. ”

    http://www.evworld.com/article.cfm?archive=1&storyid=1343&first=3510&end=3509


  33. 33
    TED in Fort Myers

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:15 pm)

    Like I said get Chevron/Texaco out of the battery business. Exxon likes to advertise they are working on LiIon batteries. What if an oil company actually made a business out of Battery manufacture. Oh well, I guess I am just having a pipe dream.
    TAG, Is that your cat?

    LJGTVWOTR

    Take Care,
    TED


  34. 34
    Grizzly

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:22 pm)

    Ted #33

    I’m never sure what to make of that E-M AD on TV with the scientist talking about the film separator. I can’t believe that E-M thinks they’ll be in the battery business and I’m concerned about what happened WRT Nimh and Chevron. I never understood how anyone could enforce a patent like that. It would be like saying you’ve got control of Li-ion and no one can use them in flashlights w/o your consent. Seems almost like we’ve got a Sherman/Clayton issue here.


  35. 35
    statik

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:22 pm)

    #12 Statik (Me)

    Maybe I’ll take DonC’s advice and start yammering on about Fannie and Freddie/Insurable events to make it really, super exciting.

    —-

    Ok, I have to at least mention it. Freddie and Fannie were taken over today by the government:

    http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080907/mortgage_giants_crisis.html

    WASHINGTON (AP) — The Bush administration, acting to avert the potential for major financial turmoil, announced Sunday that the federal government was taking control of mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Officials announced that the executives and board of directors of both institutions had been replaced.

    Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson says the historic actions were being taken because “Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are so large and so interwoven in our financial system that a failure of either of them would cause great turmoil in our financial markets here at home and around the globe.”

    “A failure would affect the ability of Americans to get home loans, auto loans and other consumer credit and business finance,” Paulson said.

    Both companies were placed into a government conservatorship that will be run by the Federal Housing Finance Agency, the new agency created by Congress this summer to regulate Fannie and Freddie.

    ——–

    You seem to be up on this DonC. How do you feel about another “Bank Holiday” — 1933 style? Ironically, (and feeling like a Deja vu moment), it was inacted by Roosevelt the day after his inaugeration.

    If you don’t know what it is…google up “Emergency Banking Act” Basically, times were bad and banks were full of it, so the gov’t closed everybody down for a few days and got out the quickie auditors…about a third of all banks were shuttered forever.

    It was a short term play to bolster confidence until the Glass-Steagall Act came into play later. It let the gov’t set personal interest rates (until the early 80s) and stopped banks from owning other financial companies, which oddly enough was in effect until the start of this millenium, when all of this new mess got started.

    /enjoy your day, lol


  36. 36
    Carcus

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:23 pm)

    Mark H. #30 says:

    “The only troy based battery maker was Cobasys”

    Wiki says:

    “Compact Power, Inc. (CPI), a subsidiary of LG Chem, based in Troy, Mich.”

    http://www.autoobserver.com/2007/08/gms-lutz-announces-battery-contract.html

    That took me 30 seconds to wiki up.


  37. 37
    TED in Fort Myers

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:29 pm)

    You are right Grizz. The oil companies will never actively participate in the manufacturer of batteries that will reduce the demand on their core product. As a product gets harder to come by all those involved it that product will get ever richer. The only time EXXon-Mobil or Chevron-Texaco will ever get into another business is when the oil is expended.
    Take Care,
    TED


  38. 38
    TED in Fort Myers

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:30 pm)

    Cobasys by any other name is Chevron-Texaco.
    Take Care,
    TED


  39. 39
    psklenar

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:32 pm)

    As to whether anyone outside of GM will able able to get their hands on a Volt prior to launch, GM vice chair Bob Lutz has apparently laid down the law:

    “We’ll start releasing (the car) to the public in November of 2010. No one, no one, will get one any earlier.”

    So. What would be the best job to apply for at GM in order to get a chance to play with one of these before November ’10? :)


  40. 40
    Carcus

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:38 pm)

    #39,

    Q: “So. What would be the best job to apply for at GM in order to get a chance to play with one of these before November ‘10?”

    ———————

    A: Mentally challenged night janitor.


  41. 41
    statik

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:39 pm)

    Ok, I’m on the kick now…taking a little rest from my own site.
    ——–
    So I’d like to mention Delphi, which has been in bankruptcy protection since 2005.

    It was scheduled to come out of bankruptcy…until the investor group pulled out when they realized that although some of Delphi is in a good position, GM had embedded such a good deal on it’s own parts that it compromised the integrity of the company as a whole.

    Why is this of interest? Well, because that means Delphi is not coming out of bankruptcy now…it is going to get liquified. Chapter 7.

    So what? Well, GM has been getting all kinds of lovely parts (that no other supplier can hook them up with) for fantabulous below market pricing for a long time….and thats going to end.

    But what does that mean really? GM is going to have to buy all those factories, fabrication systems because the parts are irreplaceable to their vehicle lineup.

    And you point is? GM has no money to do it…and when they do, it is taking over the gigantic money losing part of Delphi that made the original backers run for the hills.

    GM was hoping that by promising 650 million in ‘loans’ (and another 300 million after the deal was done), that would let them skate on the back of outside investors, who would continue business as is…not so much now.

    This bankruptcy, with out gov’t bailout/”retooling of old plants” loan money, lol. Has the potential to obliterate GM’s remaining cash and sink it, hence the big, big push for the cash.

    http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080907/automakers_congress.html

    “With Congress returning this coming week from its summer break, the industry plans an aggressive lobbying campaign for the low-interest loans.”

    “This industry could fall down, literally, or be absorbed if they don’t get something in place very soon. I think it’s that severe,” said Rep. Joe Knollenberg, R-Mich.

    /more sunshine…but I felt it was important to the consciousness of the site to understand the situation of the company that is to build ‘our dream’


  42. 42
    Carcus

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:42 pm)

    #39,

    Watch “The Italian Job” for instructional video, then let us know what you find out.


  43. 43
    Tagamet

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:46 pm)

    Statik
    “…/more sunshine…but I felt it was important to the consciousness of the site to understand the situation of the company that is to build ‘our dream’”

    That’s really weak.
    Tag


  44. 44
    TED in Fort Myers

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:51 pm)

    Tag,
    Is that your cat?

    My dream of a major oil company making a battery was weak too but we must have dreams.

    Take Care,
    TED


  45. 45
    Carcus

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:54 pm)

    #43 Tag,

    Weak would be running a company into the ground, then asking for government backed loans to bail you out.

    I appreciate detailed info (especially with sources) that I can then try to verify.

    I’ll read some more, and then decide wether Statik’s take is valid.
    Isn’t that what you’d do, Tag?


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:57 pm)

    Statik
    “…/more sunshine…but I felt it was important to the consciousness of the site to understand the situation of the company that is to build ‘our dream’”

    That’s really weak.
    Tag
    —–

    A little ‘flowery’ with the words I’ll grant you…but it is still true. I don’t think alot of people realize Delphi’s potential impact (or FNM/FRE). No amount of hoping or fancy acronyms is going to change reality.


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (12:58 pm)

    Ted in Fort Myers@44 said

    Tag,
    Is that your cat?

    Yep, one of 5 (currently)

    My dream of a major oil company making a battery was weak too but we must have dreams.

    Uncontested. But I’m not rubbing your nose in ExxonMobil “battery separators”. If I want a buzzKill, I’ll turn on CNN (Constantly Negative Northerner)

    Take Care,
    TED

    You too,
    Tag
    “LJGTVWOTR!!”


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:02 pm)

    Why is your cat smileing? Any yellow feathers near?

    LJGTVWOTR

    Take Care,
    TED


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:05 pm)

    Carcus@45 said
    “Weak would be running a company into the ground, then asking for government backed loans to bail you out.

    I appreciate detailed info (especially with sources) that I can then try to verify.
    I’ll read some more, and then decide wether(SIC) Statik’s take is valid.
    Isn’t that what you’d do, Tag?”

    I knew that info BEFORE it was posted here. DIDN’T YOU?
    Tag
    “LJGTVWOTR!!”


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:06 pm)

    #45 carcus

    I appreciate detailed info (especially with sources) that I can then try to verify.

    I’ll read some more, and then decide wether Statik’s take is valid.
    Isn’t that what you’d do, Tag?
    —-

    I guess I should throw up some third part analysis on Delphi, it is a long article but gets into the ins and outs of the whole thing alot more than I did:

    http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080826/AUTO01/808260374

    ——-

    #49 Tag

    Carcus@45

    I knew that info BEFORE it was posted here. DIDN’T YOU?
    Tag
    “LJGTVWOTR!!”

    I’m impressed Tag, I didn’t know you dug down into the nitty gritty of GM’s extended supplier contracts so diligently.

    You probably already know this one too, but I’ll post it as well:

    “Rick Wagoner, GM chairman and chief executive, told the Financial Times last month that he expected emerging markets to contribute 80 per cent of global car industry growth in the next five years, and he was particularly optimistic about China, GM’s second-largest market.”

    Unfortunately….
    Growth in the Chinese motor market has slowed more rapidly than expected….August car sales may have fallen by as much as 10 per cent year-on-year, according to preliminary data.

    http://us.ft.com/ftgateway/superpage.ft?news_id=fto090720081224418949&referrer_id=yahoofinance


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:07 pm)

    Ted@48said
    Why is your cat smileing? Any yellow feathers near?

    I explained oil independence to him.

    Be well,
    Tag

    LJGTVWOTR


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:09 pm)

    #40, #42 Carcus

    “A: Mentally challenged night janitor.”
    “Watch “The Italian Job” for instructional video, then let us know what you find out.”

    I haven’t seen “The Italian Job” yet, but as for your other idea … I should be able to handle that! :)


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:14 pm)

    “The oil companies will never actively participate in the manufacturer of batteries that will reduce the demand on their core product. As a product gets harder to come by all those involved it that product will get ever richer. The only time EXXon-Mobil or Chevron-Texaco will ever get into another business is when the oil is expended.”

    Pretty much.
    They only do this to 1) look good to the public – “we’re not just out to hose you at the gas pumps!”
    and 2) have a backup in place for when oil runs out.


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:19 pm)

    As A stock holder and interested party I would after the last three comments from Mr. Lutz like to call for a vote of confidence in his ability to continue in his position . If he stays then lock his ASS in a small room and keep HIM there .

    God Bless

    Edwin Mang
    Blackwell , Oklahoma


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:22 pm)

    Awww c’mon Bob, even if I offer a $1,000,000.00 for the first one that’s supposed to go to the Smithsonian ?


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:27 pm)

    Tagamet #47

    Are you raising cats to power your Volt and bypass the batteries ?


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:31 pm)

    Back to direct ‘Volt-ish’ news:

    GS Yuasa (part Mitsu owned/supplier of i-Miev batteries) is looking at building a lithium-ion plant overseas (ie-North America)

    “Our eyes are firmly on the domestic market, but we think demand in Europe and the U.S. will climb going forward,” Yoda said in an interview with Bloomberg Television in Tokyo broadcast today. “We have to choose our next factory’s location based on growth in the given market.”

    Article also sas a little ditty about Toyota Prius’ being built in Mississippi in 2010 as well.

    Re-iterates this statement again — “Toyota has been able to reduce it’s per vehicle cost by 50 percent since its first-gen Prius and hopes to halve those costs again in their next-gen”

    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/09/07/japanese-companies-to-build-batteries-in-america/


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:32 pm)

    Statik at 50 said in small part
    “…I’m impressed Tag, I didn’t know you dug down into the nitty gritty of GM’s extended supplier contracts so diligently. ..

    I’ll bet it’s tough typing with your tongue so far into your cheek, but I do think it’s appropriate that you are impressed.
    Tag
    Insert appropriate acronym here


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:38 pm)

    Ed M@56 said
    “Tagamet #47
    Are you raising cats to power your Volt and bypass the batteries ? ”

    Nope, we raise them until they are big enough for a nice sandwich.
    Be well,
    Tag


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:39 pm)

    I do appreciate the humor, TAG
    Take Care,
    TED


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:41 pm)

    #58

    Statik at 50 said in small part
    “…I’m impressed Tag, I didn’t know you dug down into the nitty gritty of GM’s extended supplier contracts so diligently. ..

    I’ll bet it’s tough typing with your tongue so far into your cheek, but I do think it’s appropriate that you are impressed.
    Tag
    Insert appropriate acronym here
    ———-

    Actually, if it is true…I am impressed. But you caught me, my tongue was indeed my cheek…as none of your previous posts on the site thus far would support your having intricate knowledge of the fiscal inner workings of GM’s suppliers, let alone GM itself.

    Although to be fair, you got it all rolling in post #43 with your terse one liner. As a psychiatrist, and a child one at that, you would think you would have expected a retort from myself of that nature. Which leads me to wonder what good you hoped to achieve from it?

    Anywhoo, thats all I have to say about it.

    Moving on…peace.

    Be well,
    Statik

    LJGTVWOTR!


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:48 pm)

    Tag, I don’t always agree with a shrink …..and I’ve never replied to or responded in any way to Statik on this forum (until now), but I want to add my sincere objection to yours in post #43…..
    ——————————————————————————————————————————–
    I quote…..
    “Statik
    ‘…/more sunshine…but I felt it was important to the consciousness of the site to understand the situation of the company that is to build ‘our dream’”

    That’s really weak.
    Tag
    ——————————————————————————————————————————–

    Statik, I want to offer you some advice from my many decades of exposure to some of the best & brightest people in the world (I’ve worked with extremely intelligent people in 25 other country’s space programs)……

    Remember that the “best defense is a good offense”, my friend, and back off on your excessive negative “contributions” to this forum —even if they’re based on hard facts they detract significantly from the fundamental purpose of this forum!!!


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:48 pm)

    Statik@61

    PsyCHOLOgist, sheesh! Psychiatrists have all their education in medicine and a year residency n psychology. Psychologists have all their training (7 years) in psychology, but cannot prescribe medicines. You knew that. right?(g).
    Be well,
    Tag
    (Launches into a chorus of “Thanks for the ak-ro-nyms…”)

    LJGTVWOTR!


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:51 pm)

    Reading Bob I understand that one one outside GM will have a Volt before 2010, but he did not say anything about insiders. Driving and having a Volt are two different things.

    I believe that A123 is only putting a 3 year guarantee on the Hymotion packs. Reading between the lines, it sounds like GM either hasen’t run the A123 packs at all or very little. The packs are the bleeding technology in the Volt. Just don’t price two packs in. I have confidence that one or another battery technologies will pan out and we will be able to get a replacement cheaper than the original.

    I read the Powerpoint presentation on the CPI pack and noted It uses Lipo technology not lion, and also where it said some packs after testing exhibited a “slight puffiness”. Most folks that fly model airplanes with lipos consider the lipo trash after it puffs. The lipos are the ones suseptible to thermal runaway, the A123s are not.

    As far as the Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae debacle, this can all be traced to the lax oversight environment when friends oversee friends. The same thing happened under Bush senior’s administration with the savings and loans.


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:51 pm)

    I am sorry, but there is little about this story for worthwhile comments. Maybe some good news will happen soon. And, guys, let’s try to keep politics and hydrogen out of the discussion.


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:52 pm)

    nasaman@62

    Thanks a lot for the support! (and I agree) But Statik and I hugged and made up. Everyone has to have a voice or none of us are free. I made that up, but it fits(g).
    Thanks again, my friend,
    Tag
    LJGTVWOTR!


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:54 pm)

    To all,
    I’m going AFK – just a note so people don’t think I’m ignoring them.
    be well all,
    Tag
    LJGTVWOTR!


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (1:59 pm)

    #67 Tag

    To all,
    I’m going AFK – just a note so people don’t think I’m ignoring them.
    be well all,
    Tag
    LJGTVWOTR!
    ——–

    Me too. We all good Tag. We just have to get in a needling match from time to time to show we still care about our ‘other half’


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (2:04 pm)

    #44 TED in Fort Myers Says: “My dream of a major oil company making a battery was weak too but we must have dreams.”
    ————————————————————————————-
    Oil companies are used to buying or leasing rights to land, setting up machinery, and then raking in profits. This is why the Pickens Plan of setting up wind turbines appeals to oil people. If you want to dream, this one would be more realistic.


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (2:06 pm)

    #41 Static

    I would sure like GM to succeed with “our dream,” but I’m not worried about bankruptcy. If the Volt makes economic sense, and I think it does (though not at 40K), it can’t be stopped. The cat is out of the bag. If GM goes into bankrupcy, the judge will allow new development work to continue. If for some reason the judge doesn’t, then Toyota or Nissan or Tesla will be first to market with an EREV in 2011 or 12. I’m rooting for GM, but I’d rather do it with my dollars like a responsible citizen. Not with my neighbors money via taxes.


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (2:12 pm)

    #10 nuclearboy says “At least he is still saying they will start releasing the car in Nov 2010.”

    One of the things I most admire, in a technical sort of way, about GM marketing people is their ability to make you believe a certain conclusion without actually saying anything of the kind. In this regard, marketing expert Bob Lutz has told us via this post that GM will not be releasing the Volt before Nov 2010. He said nothing about when the Volt would be released. Not a thing. Smart guy, that Bob Lutz.


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (2:17 pm)

    #35 Statik

    How do I feel about Fannie and Freddie? I think it’s scary as all get out. Once blood was in the water they weren’t viable. That always happens, whether it’s Long Term Capital Management, Bear Sterns, or Fannie. Now on the merits it’s hard to say they were reckless like the first two. By definition the loans they wrote were conforming, but they did stretch it. So it’s OK that shareholders take it in the shorts.

    The next issue is the preferred shareholders. Under Basil this is Tier I capital so, like shareholder equity, it goes down the tubes. The problem here is that most of the (I think) $36B in preferred shares are held by regional banks and S&Ls. Since they shares might now be worthless you have to worry about a cascading effect here. I noticed that the press release said the government would work with this group on capital requirements.

    The even bigger issue is with subordinated debt. This is only about $20B but it’s complicated. Subordinated debt is actually a form of Tier 2 debt, falling below bank deposits. So it also might go down the tubes. We don’t know who owns this and the holder risk might not be so great because a lot of holders did credit swaps where they essentially bought insurance against defaults.

    We’ve got two big issues with these swaps. First is that the entities insuring against the defaults might not have enough money to pay up. Second is that this derivative market was turned into a casino with entities not holding the debit buying insurance that the debt would default. This was a brass balls move since it’s way more leveraged than selling short. It also means that the dollars at risk on the defaults is not limited to $20B. Some estimate it may even be as high as a trillion dollars.

    If the takeover is deemed an insurable event then all kinds of chaos may ensue. The entities which wrote the insurance may be beyond broke, which means both that they are gone AND the companies showing profits on the books because they bought the insurance may also have huge write downs because the “insurers” can’t pay up.

    Adding to the problem is that no one knows who did what and what was sold by whom to whom. No transparency at all. It could be unbelievably ugly, and it could well end up that pension funds all over the world are severely compromised. It had the potential to be big. Real big. The good thing is that Paulson seems up to the job. Thankfully.


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (2:34 pm)

    #71 RB Says: “… marketing expert Bob Lutz has told us via this post that GM will not be releasing the Volt before Nov 2010. He said nothing about when the Volt would be released. Not a thing. Smart guy, that Bob Lutz.”
    ————————————————————————————–
    Read the article. Bob Lutz says:
    “We’ll start releasing (the car) to the public in November of 2010.”
    That’s seems pretty specific to me…


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (2:40 pm)

    #72 DonC Says: “How do I feel about Fannie and Freddie?”
    ————————————————————————————–
    Here’s what Obama has to say:
    “First, this plan must not focus on the whims of lobbyists and special interests worried about their bonuses and hourly fees, but instead on strengthening our economy and helping struggling homeowners who are also being hit by lost jobs, stagnant wages and spiraling costs of everything from gas to groceries.

    Second, the plan must protect taxpayers, not bail out the shareholders and management of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

    Third, once we ride out the current crisis, the plan must move toward clarifying the true public and private status of our housing policies. In our market system, investors must not be allowed to believe that they can invest in a “heads they win, tails they don’t lose” situation.”


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (2:44 pm)

    #62 nasaman

    Tag, I don’t always agree with a shrink …..and I’ve never replied to or responded in any way to Statik on this forum (until now), but I want to add my sincere objection to yours in post #43…..

    Statik, I want to offer you some advice from my many decades of exposure to some of the best & brightest people in the world (I’ve worked with extremely intelligent people in 25 other country’s space programs)……

    Remember that the “best defense is a good offense”, my friend, and back off on your excessive negative “contributions” to this forum —even if they’re based on hard facts they detract significantly from the fundamental purpose of this forum!!!
    ———

    You know what, I think you are right. I don’t think we have ever directly conversed.

    I always felt it was because your forte was the engineering/technical side, and mine was on the financial. It seemed illogical or perhaps inappropriate for me to debate your technical opinions based on your background and skillset…I left that to others.

    However today with the potential precursor to the collapse of the US credit market and a bankruptcy hearing into Delphi in a few days, I felt the need to contribute…and yes with ‘negative’ news. I had actually toned it down quite significantly…other than when someone requested something of me.

    I do also realize I have just retorted to two ‘pillars’ of the board, so I need to be careful as to where I tread and how I present myself, as being the local ‘voice of reality’ or ‘negative nellie,’ is not a popular vocation to have here.

    I don’t know if the phrase, “the best defense is a good offense,” applies…as we aren’t really playing a sport or keeping score.

    I’m not really sure what the “fundamental purpose of this forum” is…if it is only saying things which put GM/the Volt in a favoUrable light, with a purpose the same as the “GM facts and fiction” site…to convey only positive messages, with no room for open discourse, or to verify that the message being spoken is indeed the truth, then I am indeed in error. In fact I don’t even want to be a part of that community.

    I am a very small part of the voice heard here at GM-Volt.com. I would hope that my postings have helped some people with putting things in perspective.

    I would hope that some people coming to this site over the past 18 (?) months looking for insight to GM’s future viability because of the Volt, thought twice about buying GM stock at $25, $20, $15 and saved some money.

    Of all of my “excessive negative ‘contributions’” I honestly don’t know of any of the facts expressed have been untrue or if any future projections/hypothesis have proved themselves in error…so I don’t think I am being misleading. (I realize this particular paragraph does not speak to the point of your argument…but something I wanted to express anyway).

    As you know, having worked with some of the best and brightest, being smart doesn’t always make you right. Alot of really smart people have messed up really bad in the last 24 months…and have the US tettering on the brink and with it alot of companies that were distressed, like GM.

    Sometimes people can’t see the forest for the trees, I think most of my posts are basically, “hey, that piece of news is interesting, but look at the forest for a minute” — Occam’s razor if you will.

    Just my opinion on the matter. I figured I should just put my thoughts out to you as we do not often (ever?) converse directly.

    In the long run, I doubt I could discontinue my way of posting anymore than you could discontinue posting your thoughts in a very technically specific fashion, as it is hardwired into ourselves.


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (2:49 pm)

    #70 Cautious Fan

    #41 Static

    I would sure like GM to succeed with “our dream,” but I’m not worried about bankruptcy. If the Volt makes economic sense, and I think it does (though not at 40K), it can’t be stopped. The cat is out of the bag. If GM goes into bankrupcy, the judge will allow new development work to continue. If for some reason the judge doesn’t, then Toyota or Nissan or Tesla will be first to market with an EREV in 2011 or 12. I’m rooting for GM, but I’d rather do it with my dollars like a responsible citizen. Not with my neighbors money via taxes.
    ———–

    Geesh, I should have mentioned this again. You are completely right.

    I do personally believe that even in a Chapter 11 situation for GM that the Volt is a reality. The project has great value, and the public has strong attachment to it…and a belief in the promise it brings.

    Even in a Chapter 7 situation, due to it’s centralized program and easily discernable assets I believe would continue as a entity unto itself either with private investor backing or that of another majoe auto.

    /good point


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (2:50 pm)

    Cautious Fan Says: “If GM goes into bankruptcy, the judge will allow new development work to continue. If for some reason the judge doesn’t, then Toyota or Nissan or Tesla will be first to market with an EREV in 2011 or 12.”
    ————————————————————————————–
    I’m no GM fanboy, but if GM goes belly-up, I think E-REVs will be seriously delayed.

    Toyota and Nissan are not companies that embrace revolutionary designs. In fact, Toyota’s mantra is evolutionary innovation. They are geared towards making small design changes every year. In other words, Japanese car manufactures are not the best to introduce radical new designs like the Volt to the masses.

    Tesla is a great company, but they are in no position to produce 500,000 cars by 2015.

    So if GM fails, make no mistake about it, cars like the Volt will be delayed.


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (3:04 pm)

    #72 DonC

    That is a well-written post. I am fearful again to really continue it further, however I think you have hit most of the nails square on the head (if not all).

    From my own personal perspective it is the cascade that I fear the most coming from this action, not specifically from the preferred shareholder loss, but moreso as you mentioned from the writing of the insurance of debt. The potential loss of the ‘check and balance’ system companies and pensions have employed is scary.

    The total lack of comprehension of just exactly what is really/has been going on is that part that is making it so hard to judge what the fallout could potentially be.

    I thinking it is alot worse than we were/are beeing led to believe by Jim Lockhart or Secretary Paulson today. I’m not sure if opening up (‘proactively work to increase the availablility of mortgage finance/availiabilty’) the system/increase portfolios, than attempting to reverse coarse and retract it by 10% per annum is a feasible scenario. I just don’t know how you can plot out actions two years into the future on the back of being forced into such a drastic move over the coarse of a week.

    I’m sure you have seen it, but link to the weekend press mixer with Lockhard/Paulson and a editorial piece along with, that people should probably check out:

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/26590793


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (3:06 pm)

    Tagamet Statik nasaman

    GM’s precarious financial position when building the technological marvel which is the Volt is a fundamental part of the story. If the General was flush like Toyota the Volt wouldn’t be nearly so heroic an effort. It’s so quintessentially American it reminds me of the movie Independence Day.

    IOW I don’t think Statik’s financial gloom and doom is a wet blanket, it’s an integral part of the story line.


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (3:18 pm)

    DonC Says: “If the General was flush like Toyota the Volt wouldn’t be nearly so heroic an effort. It’s so quintessentially American it reminds me of the movie Independence Day.”
    ————————————————————————————–
    Captain Steven Hiller says:
    “I have GOT to get me one of these! “


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (3:26 pm)

    Statik has gone for grumpy to upbeat to semi-grumpy and now to comedian.

    I agree with your take on this article completely. And I also agree the sun will not rise at 3 am at your house either. Twice in one post we agree!!! Scary! :)


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (3:44 pm)

    #81 omegaman66

    Statik has gone for grumpy to upbeat to semi-grumpy and now to comedian.

    ————————

    I sound unstable…I’d back away slowly, I could blow at anytime!

    Side note/Inside joke:
    Do I want you to do what to me?!? I just want my stamps! Well, what is the number to order more federal duck stamps again? (…I seen you have a hunting site)


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    Sep 7th, 2008 (3:57 pm)

    #25 250Volt says,

    I wish Canadians would quit thinking they have a say in US politics

    ———-
    I wish Americans would quit thinking we have a say in anyone else’s politics.


  84. 84
    N Riley

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (4:14 pm)

    #83 Rashiid Amul

    I totally agree. Everyone go to their respective corners and stay there. Now, lets get the wheels on the road, GM.


  85. 85
    Tagamet

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (4:14 pm)

    Having re-read all of the posts in this thread, I’ve come to one conclusion.
    Statik and DonC have never had a woman ask “Does this dress make me look fat?”
    Nasaman and I know the answer. (g).
    Be well,
    Tag
    “LJGTVWOTR!!”
    PS: Another quote from Independence Day: “I’m Baaaaaaa-yak” (old drunk dude, delivering the mail)


  86. 86
    ThombDbhomb

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (4:20 pm)

    #79 DonC
    Megadittos. Statik’s contributions provide financial perspective. I prefer that Statik’s points be countered with facts and reasoned opinion. I am not looking for the rosiest picture, I am looking for an relevant information.


  87. 87
    ThombDbhomb

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (4:23 pm)

    #85 Tagamet
    A strong, secure woman already knows the answer to “Does this dress make me look fat?” and she wouldn’t ask the question.


  88. 88
    Tagamet

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (4:38 pm)

    ThombDbhomb Says
    #85 Tagamet
    A strong, secure woman already knows the answer to “Does this dress make me look fat?” and she wouldn’t ask the question.
    ****************************************************************

    Spoken like a true Metrosexual. I’m married to the strongest *person* I know – and she asks. Not because she is weak, but because she values my input. Sorry if you didn’t get the humor.
    Tag


  89. 89
    Ed M

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (4:39 pm)

    #250 volt #25

    I sort of agree with you and Amul #83

    I think the lesson for the world is don’t let bad situations fester too long or you’ll end up with Stalin’s and Hitlers all over the place. For the past 200 years America and Canada have been great friends and they get to the same place in agreements by using slightly different routes.
    .Regardless what does this have to do with building cars ?


  90. 90
    ThombDbhomb

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (5:13 pm)

    #88 Tagamet
    If you could see me and smell me right now, I don’t think you’d use the word “Metrosexual” to describe me. In fact, my wife doesn’t trust my fashion advice. Since your wife values your fashion advice, perhaps you are more of a metrosexual than I. ;) Do you ask her if your pants make you look fat?


  91. 91
    DonC

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (5:21 pm)

    #88 Tagamet – “Spoken like a true Metrosexual. … Sorry if you didn’t get the humor.”

    The dress quote was funny and, interestingly enough, I’ve had a similar question in a metrosexual moment.

    One year for Christmas my wife got me a facial. After prodding I went and had the facial. It was kinda what you’d expect a facial to be though to be truthful I don’t remember it very well. What I do remember is that the woman giving me the facial told me, after asking me if I wanted this or that and my telling her “whatever” about six times, that I was definitely “a regular guy” and definitely not a metrosexual, which is the first and last time I ever heard this word actually spoken. Up until then I had always thought it could only be written, and then only in the New York Times Sunday Magazine.

    Anyway, to get to the dress question. When I got home my wife asks: how did you like the facial?


  92. 92
    Kaido

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (6:30 pm)

    TWO friggin’ more years… where oh where do I find the patience?

    In the mean time, at the time of falling oil prices, it would be a great idea to set up a fuel tax in the US to keep people motivated (and keep the consumption in check). An import tax for all countries (especially China) where fuel is being subsidized. The latter one would probably cause chinese economy to slow down considerably, help with the fuel prices and boost the US economy as less jobs would leave overseas.


  93. 93
    vincent

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (6:35 pm)

    Wow, what a bunch of Arm Chair CEO “wannabes” that couldn’t even manage a dollar store.
    No wonder GM started their own Volt site with idiots claiming the battery burns up with a 100% failure rate. Sheeeesh.
    It’s even an insult to Lyle that has busted his ass to keep this site fresh and exciting. I’m surprised these guys are not banned from here.
    Thanks Lyle for all your hard work and dedication. 99.9% of us truly appreciate it!


  94. 94
    Len

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (6:45 pm)

    I appreciate Statik’s input. Because of it I woke up to the financial mess this country is in several months sooner and likely have saved a bundle. :)

    About fuel prices, just wait until after the election, they will be right back up there (actually dispite the price of oil dropping considerably, the price of gas has only gone down a slight amount).


  95. 95
    RB

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (7:12 pm)

    #73 Dave G says
    “#71 RB Says: “… marketing expert Bob Lutz has told us via this post that GM will not be releasing the Volt before Nov 2010. He said nothing about when the Volt would be released. Not a thing. Smart guy, that Bob Lutz.”
    ————————————————————————————–
    Read the article. Bob Lutz says:
    “We’ll start releasing (the car) to the public in November of 2010.”
    That’s seems pretty specific to me…”
    ————————————————————————-

    Good point. I agree with you and take it all back. :)


  96. 96
    PJK

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (7:22 pm)

    Gas prices here in Pgh have dropped 50 cents a gallon in the last month… I would say that’s more than a slight amount for one month.. I think the oil cartel is realizing that we will drill our own oil and they lower their prices as a reaction .. they will lower the price until our oil costs more and isn’t worth drilling for. It’s $3.50 a gallon now.. if it keeps going down it will be below $3.00 a gallon in a month.

    2010 will get here soon enough… time flies. I just hope we are working on Hydrogen fuel cell infrastructure as much as we are looking for oil… I want a practical SUV similar to my Buick Rendezvous that has a Hydrogen fuel cell and electric driveline… no transmission.

    I also hope our government is working on leveling the playing field for our GM and FORD… right now our US TRADE system is rigged against US companies. Toyota builds cars and trucks here and pays no US taxes.. that’s BS. We can’t even sell cars in JAPAN let alone build a plant there. If you want to buy a VOLT in Japan you will have to go to a Japanese dealership and after $30,000 in tariffs you will pay over $60,000 for a VOLT … that’s if the JAPANESE government will even allow you to buy one. And I heard Toyota got $380 billion from the Japanese government .. free ..to build the Prius they don’t have to even pay it back. That’s how they can build such impractical non profit cars.


  97. 97
    RB

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (7:41 pm)

    Mr Lutz also says “…and so we are victims of the federal government. So it’s not unreasonable to request federal loan guarantees from the government to fund the new technology needed to meet the mileage and safety mandates.”

    GM is just a victim.


  98. 98
    nasaman

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (8:10 pm)

    Re: Statik, posts #41 etc, etc, etc…….
    ===========================================================================
    Post #41 was the primary “catalyst” that caused this thread to devote a large fraction of most subsequent posts (#42-94) to comments that do NOT contribute to the primary purpose of this site, as stated by Dr. Lyle Dennis under “About” and repeated below…….

    Purpose of GM-Volt.com:

    “We will provide you with all the latest information about the vehicle and its technology as it occurs and shall serve as a forum for discussion about the vehicle. We will also act as a conduit to GM about public opinion and overwhelming support for this car. The moderator of this site has met with and continues to plan on meeting with some of the highest level GM executives involved in the car’s production. We will follow the production process with them, and chronicle it for you right here. We have their ear and will make your opinions known to them. For more about this, see our Volt For Volt page.”
    ===========================================================================

    I’m not suggesting posts like #41 be banned. I’m simply asking Statik and other contributors here, myself included, to try to simply practice reasonable restraint in posting excessively negative or off-topic comments, however factually correct they may be, so our readers don’t wind up wasting so much time reading through ~7 hrs & 50-odd posts (as was the case today) that are not actually pertinent to the site’s stated purpose.

    I try to remind myself that GM people, some at the decision- making level, are likely to read my posts and that excessively negative or off-topic comments may risk loosing them as an audience —and I consider them our most important audience!


  99. 99
    GXT

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (9:30 pm)

    Statik, keep up the good work. I enjoy reading your posts. If not for you, each thread would be as follows:
    Post #1: “Hey I am first!!!”
    Post #2: “Lyle, you da man!”
    Post #3: “GO GM!!!!!!”
    The remaining posts would be a mix of whether or not the Volt will cure cancer AND bring world peace.

    There may be a LOT of noise here, but most of it doesn’t come from Statik. If you need to reduce noise, better to crack down on the posts I mention above. Someone has to interject some truth at some point and Statik is doing it in a commendably agreeable way. Without him GM-Volt.com is like the Republican convention… delegates giving raucous applause at the latest half-truth coming from whichever talking head is at the podium.


  100. 100
    The Grump

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (9:44 pm)

    OK, that makes it 26 months until the Volt launch.

    I hope GM lasts that long. Remember, GM doesn’t have to outrun it’s own bankruptcy, it just has to outrun Ford’s and Chrysler’s bankruptcy.


  101. 101
    nataraj

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (9:52 pm)

    Ah … the arrogance.

    I’m willing to bet that in 2015 – GM won’t be the leader in hybrid/electric cars … with arrogant global warming deniers like this guy at the helm.


  102. 102
    Jeff M

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (10:09 pm)

    I find it funny that Lyle gets emails from folks asking to be test drivers… while Lyle may be the #1 fan boy, last I knew he still doesn’t work for GM!


  103. 103
    Glenn

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (10:50 pm)

    I vote for Statik


  104. 104
    stopcrazypp

     

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    Sep 7th, 2008 (11:03 pm)

    #96 PJK
    “2010 will get here soon enough… time flies. I just hope we are working on Hydrogen fuel cell infrastructure as much as we are looking for oil… I want a practical SUV similar to my Buick Rendezvous that has a Hydrogen fuel cell and electric driveline… no transmission.”
    Keep dreaming, the latest Toyota FCHV-adv (basically a hydrogen fuel cell Highlander) will cost $7700 per month to lease for 30 months. So you get the car for 2.5 years at a cost of $231,000 and you don’t get to keep the car at the end. The range is very good though at 470 miles on the Japanese cycle (though this cycle tends to be very optimistic), but good luck on finding a fueling station.
    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/09/02/toyota-to-start-leasing-fuel-cell-vehicle-in-japan/

    #98 nasaman
    I agree, it is very frustrating to have to go through (many) posts that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic on hand.

    On topic:
    Doesn’t seem that unusual for him to say that. How many cars have early test drives avaliable to the public? Probably only the media will get those.


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    Ed M

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (12:00 am)

    #100 Grump
    .26 months to lauch but only 15 1/2 to 2010.


  106. 106
    Ed M

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (12:07 am)

    stopcrazypp #104
    I agree, it is very frustrating to have to go through (many) posts that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic on hand.

    Oh ? and what do you think people should be talking about ? After all there’s nothing to some of the articles Lyle puts up. No offense meant. Peoples minds wander because they can’t really get into to topic posted.


  107. 107
    mike casey

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (12:15 am)

    come on can’t we all just get along til the volt gets here if it does, I don’t think GM will be the only ev buy that time, go volt go toyota go nissian go ford go go go


  108. 108
    Jim I

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (12:21 am)

    Sorry to everyone here, but this thread was a total waste of time to read………

    Nov, 2010 is looking very far away.


  109. 109
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    Sep 8th, 2008 (12:58 am)

    buy,bye,by oh well


  110. 110
    omegaman66

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (1:01 am)

    Statik wrote: “Side note/Inside joke:
    Do I want you to do what to me?!? I just want my stamps! Well, what is the number to order more federal duck stamps again? (…I seen you have a hunting site)”

    Yeah the federal duck stamp fiasco! Somehow I don’t think it was an honest mistake.


  111. 111
    Alias

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (4:49 am)

    Well hopefully the Alias will be out before then, giving us an affordable and good looking, sporty EV option.


  112. 112
    statik

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (7:08 am)

    #98 nasaman

    I have read your comment and just to let you know I consider it to have merit. A endless stream of negative or off topic posts have no effect other than to cause choas.

    It may not seem like it I try to restrain myself when posting, but the fact of the matter is that when I do post…well, I am a pessimist.

    Yesturday, was a historic day in the history of the US. It may well not seem like it yet…but it was nonetheless. People will talk about it many years from now. The irony to it, I felt was that most were/are oblivious to it’s existance at all, let alone ramifications…so I posted on it. The second bit of news on Delphi, I thought was fair ball because it has direct impact on GM and the Volt…many ‘mission critical’ parts are produced by Delphi on just about every GM vehicle.

    The unfortunately timing of the two at the same time, did lead to some reaction and subsequent posts, which was to be expected. I don’t know if I would class the whole thing under the “…so our readers don’t wind up wasting so much time” heading. At least not for this particular article, this one is more like a ‘news bulletin’ rather than a discussion piece.

    Long story short, I have considered your argument in the past, and you have given me pause now to consider it again. I do appreciate your input and the nature of your constructive criticism and I believe I will take some of its intention to heart.

    (Side note: You might want to consider not using bold in your posts, it’s similar to using all caps, especially in a environment where text functions are not a prominent feature.)


  113. 113
    Joe

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (7:22 am)

    statik Says:@75

    “I am a very small part of the voice heard here at GM-Volt.com. I would hope that my postings have helped some people with putting things in perspective.”

    *************************************************************************************

    I don’t see how you could be saying “my postings have helped some people with putting things in perspective”. Your views are warped and knowing how you love attention, let me say in advance, I don’t care to debate them. Anyone reading your postings can easily come to that conclusion.
    I find it hard to believe you are a psychiatrist.


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    Shawn Marshall

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (9:05 am)

    Dear Bob Lutz,
    If GM needs money, we can help. I’ll surrender all my GM card points(I guess you get something for that) and make a deposit on the Volt. The deposit can be redirected to another GM product if I decide against the VOLT. How about it? OK? Call me.You have my number.


  115. 115
    Tagamet

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (9:12 am)

    Statik,
    I don’t remember you being a psychiatrist….(g)
    Be well,
    Tag
    “LJGTVWOTR!!”


  116. 116
    Shawn Marshall

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (9:21 am)

    Lyle,
    Why don’t you split your site into two threads? The Nasaman leg (the right leg) and the Statik leg (the left out leg). It’d be a great favor. I’d like to read posts without a lot of static and that ilk.
    The people who go to your site are generally pretty savvy and well informed. Most of us have our fingers crossed that the GM will succeed and the VOLT will come to be. Maybe you can get your site guru to give us two paths for discussion. Thanks for all you do.


  117. 117
    JohnL

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (9:28 am)

    Saw this on an auto show on ESPN over the weekend and looked it up on the web – GM better get off their butts:

    http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/09/06/frankfurt-preview-volvo-recharge-the-swedes-go-series-hybrid/

    Granted, just a prototype – but I like the concept of having the motors mounted in the hub assemblies better than the central electric motor & transmission.


  118. 118
    Jackson

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (9:40 am)

    The question of whether or not GM can survive long enough to produce the Volt (or EREVs in general) is an urgently relevent one. Much more so than, say, self-actuating front grill slats.


  119. 119
    statik

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (10:19 am)

    #115 Tag

    Statik,
    I don’t remember you being a psychiatrist….(g)
    Be well,
    Tag
    “LJGTVWOTR!!”

    ———–
    Actually a psycologist.

    I hear that psychiatrists have all their education in medicine and a year residency n psychology, whereas psychologists have all their training in psychology, but cannot prescribe medicines.

    (=

    FYI: We have now entered the ‘soothing humoUr filled’ portion of the thread, as it slowly fades…or turns into a black hole and destroys us all.


  120. 120
    Tagamet

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (10:30 am)

    Statik said in part:
    …(=
    FYI: We have now entered the ’soothing humoUr filled’ portion of the thread, as it slowly fades…or turns into a black hole and destroys us all.

    Uhoh. Sounds like the presage of CNN programming… (And I was just getting to like the new improved Statik (g))
    Be well,
    Tag


  121. 121
    noel park

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (10:45 am)

    #41 Statik:

    Reality, what a concept.

    #54 Edwin Mang:

    No confidence.

    #79 Don C & #86 thombDbhomb.

    I agree. Thanks.

    #83 Rashiid Amul:

    Amen! did you happen to see Bob Woodward on 60 Minutes last night? Endless War. Where is George Orwell, now that we need him?

    I would add LJGTVWOTR!, but my vision is so dark this morning that I can’t really see 3 years ahead.


  122. 122
    Jeff

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (11:32 am)

    Too bad GM is waiting to get the Government bailout.
    Better to bring out your best effort ASAP and stand on the shoulders of a great product and sell, sell, sell, than HOPE that you’ll be saved by the Feds.

    I will buy 2 of the first plugins that comes on the market.

    No matter who makes it.

    No Plug, No Deal.


  123. 123
    Jack

     

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    Sep 8th, 2008 (2:43 pm)

    I was going to vote to have statik continue his posts about GM’s financial condition and the financial health of their suppliers because I found them interesting. The I thought that if I agree with nasaman people might think I was one of the best and brightest minds from 25 countries. So I agree with nasaman, all post should be positive. To make it easy people should only pick one of the following templates to post:

    1. Go GM Go!
    2. The Volt is the best car ever!
    3. Hey Tagamet, nice cat!


  124. 124
    Joe

     

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    Sep 9th, 2008 (6:51 am)

    Bob LutzLier Says:@2

    “Lutz is a guy who put foot in his mouth on a daily basis, he can’t be trusted, just like Obama/Biden”

    ***********************************************************************************

    What an awful comparison!! If only we could keep off the wall comments like this out of this site. Probably a Toyota worker who feels threaten by GM.

    To Bob LutzLier :@2: Why don’t you get a life and stop ridiculing Bob Lutz’s name by using the name Lutzler

    Lyle,can you do something about this?

    Thanks


  125. 125
    Tagamet

     

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    Sep 9th, 2008 (8:46 am)

    Joe@124
    PDNFTT

    Be well,
    Tag
    LJGTVWOTR!!


  126. 126
    Bob Murray

     

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    Sep 9th, 2008 (9:05 am)

    That’s right G.M. you want to wait for your compe”tit”ors to gobble up as much market share as possible before you lead the industry into the future. Then a large portion of the market will have already bought new vehicle’s…gas prices will be $2.00/litre or $7.58 for my american friends…we’ll have all sucked the life out of any +room in our cash flow surplus we gained over the last decade and won’t qualify for a loan to get the car. Who know’s… maybe G.M. will fall in late 09 and someone else will launch the vehicle that will save many a family! GET THE CAR ON THE LOT NOW!!! YOUR WARRENTY WILL COVER ANY MISTAKES!