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Chevy Tacuma: E-Flex Microvan?
As we discuss the Volt and its revolutionary E-flex drivetrain, interest in seeing this technology placed in vehicles other than a 4-seater sedan is often expressed.
Although nothing has been publicly unveiled yet, GM has certainly implied plans for a future portfolio of E-Flex vehicles. Clearly they don’t expect the momentum to stop with the Volt, but rather expect E-Flex is the dawn of a new era. Indeed we already know that the E-Flex design studio has at least two other new concepts in the scale model stage (post).
So just when will this new era will begin? On a few occasions, spy photographers have spotted a small GM Chevy prototype microvan mule, known alternatively as the MPV7 or Chevy Tacuma, undergoing testing in Germany (shown above). For those not familiar with the term, a microvan is a smaller sedan-sized version of a minivan, the most common example being the current Mazda5.
Reportedly this particular Chevy vehicle will be built on the same Delta platform as the Volt will and alongside the Volt at the same assembly plant in Hamtramck.
Because of these shared aspects, some authors have guessed that this vehicle might also have an E-flex drivetrain. Imagine that, an E-Flex microvan?!
I obtained GMs official comment on this: “pure speculation.”
We’ll see.
Source (Jalopnik)
104 Responses to “Chevy Tacuma: E-Flex Microvan?”
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September 1st, 2008 at 8:06 am
Pure speculation, maybe, but GM has to be thinking about it and the microvan niche would be incredibly popular. Bring it on!
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September 1st, 2008 at 8:08 am
I hope they take this platform and run with it, expand it, and perfect it
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September 1st, 2008 at 8:35 am
GM will need to follow up the Volt with an E-Flex vehicle with seating for 5 or more. Perhaps this will be it.
I’m not an engineer, but it seems to me it will be very difficult delivering an E-Flex vehicle with seating for 5 with the current size of the battery pack. GM’s best opportunity for such a vehicle might be either a microvan or crossover.
Once the battery pack is reduced in size, there might be more opportunities for a traditional sedan with seating for 5, IMHO.
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September 1st, 2008 at 8:38 am
This is the size of vehicle that many want. A real Soccer Mom vehicle for the masses on E-Flex. Now that would be cool.
Lets do it.
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September 1st, 2008 at 8:41 am
If I had a good indication that an E-FLEX microvan was soon coming out, I think I’d wait for it, rather than get the VOLT. GM — please get on this one NOW, if you haven’t already.
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September 1st, 2008 at 8:48 am
Like #4 and #5 said, Let’s do it!
Having said the above, I would prefer an E-Flex vehichle something along the lines of the Buick Enclave more so than a micovan. But, that’s just me.
That brings me to a posting I made some time ago. We know some of the E-Flex plans for Chevrolet. We’ve also heard rumors regarding Saturn and Cadillac. But, what are the E-Flex plans for Buick and Pontiac? There has been nary a word. Will GM allow those divisions to fade into the sunset? I hope not!
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September 1st, 2008 at 9:01 am
It looks like a stretch version of the Chevy HHR.
Question: By E-FLEX, does that mean it would share the Volt’s type of powertrain, or be just another Flex-Fuel GM car ? According to Autobloggreen.com, E-FLEX could mean either one (depending on local energy availability).
Having it built in the same facility as the Volt could be a very good sign. In case you didn’t guess, I like HHR’s – I rent them all the time in Orlando. A Volt HHR – even better. A stretch Volt HHR – pinch me, I must be dreaming.
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September 1st, 2008 at 9:13 am
#7 The Grump
I have never driven or even ridden in the Chevy HHR. Is it comparable to the PT Cruiser?
I rented a PT Cruiser for a week a couple years ago and it sucks, IMO! But, I’ve often thought about trying the Chevy HHR the next time I need a rental.
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September 1st, 2008 at 9:28 am
Lyle writes: “As we discuss the Volt and its revolutionary E-flex drivetrain….”
It’s times like this Lyle that appear to on GM’s payroll
Series hybrids (aka “E-flex drivetrain”) have been around for 100 years and now all of a sudden it’s “revolutionary”? Even in the 1990’s driven by California’s ZEV mandate, Volvo had their series hybrid prototype the ECC in 1992… it took GM til 1999 to show their series hybrid prototype. GM is usually a follower not a leader, except when it came to producing extremely large/heavy trucks and SUV’s.
What is revolutionary is not the drivetrain, but that GM is on target to be the 1st auto maker (large or small) to mass produce in significant numbers a series hybrid (BEV w/range extender)… and that is indeed revolutionary!!
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September 1st, 2008 at 9:28 am
A vehcile with more cargo space would be perfect, but why have the expense of an all-new body style?
How about a Volt Sport Wagon? Cadillac just did this with the CTS. Everything from the rear doors forward is exactly the same. This would increase the volume on most parts of the car, which would lower manufacturing costs.
Also, a lower longer car would have better aerodynamics than a taller shorter microvan. A sport wagon with a Kammback design would have excellent aero:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kammback
Back in the late 80’s and 90’s when gas was cheap (thanks to OPEC), Minivans and SUVs replaced station wagons. Maybe now is a good time for a revival.
By the way, there are a lot of uses for a small efficient vehicle with some cargo space, most of which have nothing to do with soccer moms:
• Rock bands (drums, guitar amps, keyboards)
• Small building projects
• Skis, surf boards, etc.
• Camping
plus a lot of other scenarios I can’t think of right now. In fact, I think these vehicles would appeal to young men, as they do already in Europe.
Think of the marketing possibilities…
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September 1st, 2008 at 9:36 am
Is it me, or is the gas signage in the background in English? And even if it was in Germany, then 1.21 euros per Liter would still be cheap. How old is this picture?
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September 1st, 2008 at 9:43 am
VAriations of the Volt? Bring them on! I can’t wait to get the VOlt itself and I feel certain that variations will follow. It is so obvious that electricity is the way to go. It’s cheap, non-polluting. renewable and the Volt is American. Once we get electric cars on the road, it won’t be long before solar panel technology improves, so you will be able to drive for NOTHING!
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September 1st, 2008 at 9:45 am
#7 The Grump Says: “Question: By E-FLEX, does that mean it would share the Volt’s type of power train, or be just another Flex-Fuel GM car ?”
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• E-Flex – a family of GM power trains that use electric drive with some type of range extender (e.g. gas engine, fuel cells, etc.).
• E-REV – a family of GM power trains that use electric drive with an internal combustion engine (ICE) range extender.
• Flex-Fuel – a car that can run on gasoline or E85.
Notes:
1) E-Flex and E-REV are often used interchangeably.
2) Flex-Fuel can also apply to bio-diesel vehicles.
3) Tesla’s name for their E-REV is “REEV” (range extended electric vehicle).
Hope this helps.
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September 1st, 2008 at 9:54 am
9 Jeff M:
GM is most definitely a technology pioneer when it comes to cars. Always has been.
Toyota is the conservative, follower type company letting other’s do the proof of concept and then they follow making incremental improvements.
Now, if you are arguing that “History’ consists of merely the last 5 years then sure. I agree with you.
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September 1st, 2008 at 10:04 am
#11 FLMan Says: “Is it me, or is the gas signage in the background in English? And even if it was in Germany, then 1.21 euros per Liter would still be cheap. How old is this picture?”
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It’s 1.27 euros per liter, and yes that’s a good price for Europe.
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September 1st, 2008 at 10:16 am
#14 Morgan Says: “GM is most definitely a technology pioneer when it comes to cars. Always has been.
Toyota is the conservative, follower type company letting other’s do the proof of concept and then they follow making incremental improvements.”
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I agree completely.
Toyota is often credited with pioneering hybrid cars like the Prius, but this was actually done by a U.S. led effort called the “Partnership for a New Generation of Vehicles”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnership_for_a_New_Generation_of_Vehicles
However, when OPEC sent gas prices below $1 a gallon, these cars were quickly abandoned by GM, Ford, and Chrysler, and investors in this new technology took a beating. This is why the U.S. should have a minimum price on gas moving forward.
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September 1st, 2008 at 10:30 am
A mini-sized minivan might be just what the doctor ordered after high gas prices have killed fuel inefficient vehicle sales. Mom could still drive around her 2.5 kids plus some of their friends, and still feel good about saving gas.
If an e-flex option could be had for $12,000 or so, (less tax credit), that would breath more life into GM sales, and help to lower e-flex costs.
It’s not my cup-of-tea, but I think it’s a great idea for GM, though sooner is better than later.
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September 1st, 2008 at 10:43 am
Pure speculation, huh? I’ll try some pure speculation, and I don’t even have purple foam rubber or black and white paint.
GM will rapidly expand e-flex to many different body styles across all of their divisions. They will need a whole darn lot of batteries to do this. But LG and A123 batts have both met specs. However neither of them may be able to meet all of the demand. One of them may indeed get an exclusive contract for the Volt. But the other may get the Provoq and the Tacuma, etc. In any case, production capacity will be critical, which gives LG and edge. Of course Continental could license from A123 and make the cells in a Conti plant. I’m betting both of the competing battery designs will see production.
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September 1st, 2008 at 10:45 am
16 Dave G
“This is why the U.S. should have a minimum price on gas moving forward.”
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I am torn on this issue. I see your point, but it smells of federal govt abuse.
I made this same argument amongst friends several years ago (that we should have a minimum price on gas). My reasoning at the time, was in order for anyone to develop any alternative fuels/powers, they needed some insurance against OPEC pummeling their market, by temporarily lowering the price of gas.
The key to this being successful, IMO, is that the govt provide clear and concise rules about how this money would be used. It needs to be directly related to energy conservation and alternative energies.
But as usual the govt gets addicted to this “tax”, and so they develop all kinds of committees and branches and pretty soon all the taxed money is used to pay for maintaining these excesses. So when gas nears or exceeds $3/gal, the govt now has no revenue to support all its branches, so they either find that money under a rock or as usual they put another tax in place.
Has any other country tried a similar method of maintaining gas at some minimum level? Would it work in the USA?
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September 1st, 2008 at 10:53 am
Is this the Tacuma under the blue tarp on the right in this picture? Sure looks like the same lines. What car could possibly be uner the tarp on the left?
http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/17/gm-has-more-than-two-new-e-flex-vehicles-already-at-scale-model-stage-of-development/
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September 1st, 2008 at 10:58 am
#19 JEC Says: “The key to this being successful, IMO, is that the govt provide clear and concise rules about how this money would be used. It needs to be directly related to energy conservation and alternative energies.”
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Yes, I agree. You don’t want them using it for pork, so you would need specific rules about how that money would be used.
However, I don’t believe this will be a big problem. With global oil production leveling off, and with China and India increasing demand, it’s not likely that gasoline will go below $3 a gallon for any sustained period.
The real issue is making sure that investors in alternative energy have some assurances that the rug won’t be pulled out from under them (again).
As for other countries, they just have much higher gas taxes. For example, when gas was below $1 a gallon in the U.S., it was around $3.50 a gallon in Europe. Now gas prices in Europe are close to $8 a gallon. So I would guess the taxes there are around $3 per gallon already, perhaps more.
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September 1st, 2008 at 10:58 am
Ok. GM if you want to build my car here is what I want:
1) I want the electric system your putting in the Volt. The size would be less for my dream car, so I am hoping the cost will come down proportionally. I want to plug in whenever convenient.
2) I want a small generator. I want to use a small “lawn mower” engine.
3) I want the lawn mower engine to run nearly continuously. The exception would be if driving in city type traffic, and the batteries are at or above say, 50% SOC. Use GPS to calculate “smart charging”, dependent on my distance from final destination, to determine how far to let batteries discharge. Smart charging would allow batteries to near depletion, if they knew I was close to final destination (maybe a little visual alert that let me override the smart charger if I knew I wanted batteries to keep charging, since I may want to immediately leave my final destination for another destination.)
4) The car would carry 4 passengers, uncomfortably. I am not being funny, but the point is this car will be mainly a commuter car, but maybe I want to take wife + 2 kids on short trips. I do not need Lexus comfort, I just want to get to my destination cheaply. This should make the car cheaper, right?
5) Air conditioning would be optional. I can live w/o it, and I know this sucks electricity. I am willing to sweat a little for the few days it is actually hot in Wisconsin (I know down South this would not be tolerable).
6) I do need a heater, sorry, but it does get cold here.
7) I am not concerned how it looks, so do everything possible to make this baby aerodynamic.
Make it for less than $25,000 and I will buy it.
Not asking for much, huh?
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:01 am
#11 FLMan Says: “Is it me, or is the gas signage in the background in English? And even if it was in Germany, then 1.21 euros per Liter would still be cheap. How old is this picture?”
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I paid this price last Saturday in a Belgian “Total” gas station for one liter of diesel.
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:08 am
Has anyone noticed that this will be the third presidential election in a row where gasoline has dropped around $1.00 per gallon during the two months leading up to the election?
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:10 am
A burning question!
Why do they put those covers around the cars? Is it really going to give up some super secret if you see the actually body shape? Seems you could pretty much determine the shape with simple interpolation on the body.
Is there a real reason?
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:15 am
Anyone notice the gas prices on he sign behind the vehicle
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:15 am
#22 JEC,
With today’s technology, charging and discharging as you suggest would wear out battery much sooner, perhaps 2-3 years instead of 10.
Another issue is efficiency. If most of the power from the gas engine goes through battery charging and discharging cycles, you lose 10-15% of the energy in the electrical / chemical conversions.
This is why the Volt’s gas engine tries to constantly match the power demands of the electric motor, in order to avoid significantly charging and discharging the battery.
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:17 am
#26 vincent Says: “Anyone notice the gas prices on he sign behind the vehicle”
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See posts 11, 15, and 23.
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:22 am
RichardG Says: “Has anyone noticed that this will be the third presidential election in a row where gasoline has dropped around $1.00 per gallon during the two months leading up to the election?”
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Yes.
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:35 am
27 Dave G
2-3 years of life?
Yikes, was not aware that running a battery in this mode would cause such a drastic life degradation. If your right, then I guess GM needs to implement a Ultra-capacitor solution (I know, this is just a dream today, at least I think?).
Sounds like my dream car will have to wait….
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:58 am
The cold reality is that the keys to efficient vehicles, regardless of propulsion, are aerodynamics and weight. You’re not going to power a brick with a battery pack, even if the batteries double in energy density. This looks a lot like a brick.
#19 JEC – “It needs to be directly related to energy conservation and alternative energies.”
That would be fine but there is no lack of economic justifications for gas taxes. A great deal of our military budget is devoted to protecting our oil supplies. A significant percentage of our health costs are attributable to air pollution traced to vehicles. Basically you can’t tax gas enough to cover the externalities.
#22 JEC
They could build this but you wouldn’t buy it. On the other hand Toyota and Honda are trying to keep the price of a hybrid drive train to within $2000. GM should be able to do the same as the price of the batteries drop and GM moves up the learning curve. A Gen II Volt might get close to your target, adjusted for inflation.
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September 1st, 2008 at 12:06 pm
Wouldn’t surprise me at all. The E-Flex architecture is the “hardest” part of the development. Of course they’re going to use it in all kinds of vehicles after the Volt.
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September 1st, 2008 at 12:20 pm
#30 JEC
Actually it’s impossible to say. Battery life is all about cycles, and cycles are all about the electric range and the number of miles driven. The Volt pack is probably good for powering the Volt 90 miles. Let’s say 100 miles to make the numbers easy. A123 claims it should last 1700 cycles at a good temperature and at a discharge rate of 1C. If you drove 15,000 miles a year in EV mode that would be 150 cycles. Over ten years that would be 1500 cycles, which might be OK or not. (This is why GM is only using half the pack — half the pack means halving the number of cycles to 850 over ten years).
If you drove 5000 miles a year the pack would go through 50 cycles a year and 500 over ten years, well within the projected life.
Keep in mind that at the end of the period your battery still retains 80% of its power. It’s not like it would stop working. You’d just have less range. You could keep using it until the car fell apart. In this regard it’s not unlike ICEs which don’t have the same efficiency at EOL.
Also note that Li-ion batteries don’t like to be fully discharged, so constantly recharging them before they are fully discharged helps life.
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September 1st, 2008 at 12:24 pm
If it was AWD (All Wheel Drive), I would be very interested in purchasing it.
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September 1st, 2008 at 12:34 pm
“The cold reality is that the keys to efficient vehicles, regardless of propulsion, are aerodynamics and weight. You’re not going to power a brick with a battery pack, even if the batteries double in energy density. This looks a lot like a brick.”
The cold reality is the eBox by AC Propulsion is just like a brick and goes 120 miles on a charge. This is a conversion of the Scion Xb and looks alot like a microvan. There is a ton of headroom and you cannot find the battery pack unless you know it is under the seats.
If you can go 120 miles on a charge you don’t need a backup generator. No matter. Build me a volt or a microvan BEV or eFlex and I will buy it.
Take Care,
TED
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September 1st, 2008 at 1:00 pm
#20 JB
It doesn’t look like the same lines to me. The vehicle under the tarp has a rear roof that appears rounded. The Tacuma’s rear roof appears more boxy. One of the tarped vehicles has a clay front corner exposed. I’ll bet the other tarped vehicles are also clay models. My guess is that the tarped models are just variations on a theme.
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September 1st, 2008 at 1:08 pm
The whole idea is to get soccer moms out of huge SUVs and into microvans even if powered by gas. Every gas dollar going out of the country and into the hands of terrorists who hate us kills our economy because we have to finance both sides of a war on terror.
Take Care,
TED
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September 1st, 2008 at 1:21 pm
If every one occupant vehicle on the interstate was getting 50 MPG. We could supply all of our own oil. If every little car was a VOLT using little or no oil, all of a sudden we have a commodity to sell instead of needing to buy.
Take Care,
TED
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September 1st, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Talk about speculation! That is all there is on this post at this time. We can only speculate. We don’t have anything to see, just speculation. I don’t see how they will be able to make the “Tacuma” more than a 4 passenger vehicle unless they reshape the battery pack. I don’t see that happening. It looks like it will be a gasoline powered vehicle with a slight possibility of a two-mode hybrid or BAS system. GM desperately needs a hybrid system that will fit into their small vehicle line-up and double the fuel mpg. Be competitive to the Toyota Prius and the upcoming Honda hybrid not as yet named.
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September 1st, 2008 at 1:41 pm
#7, #8, and #35 – Several weeks ago, I mentioned that I would like to see the VOLT system in an HHR. I was told it would not be a good idea for the same reasons as mentioned in #31. I still like the idea and as mentioned by Ted it could still be an improvement, and could be viable. At some point in time the larger, heavier 5+ passenger vehicle candidates could share a larger battery pak.
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September 1st, 2008 at 1:45 pm
the pic and all of the postings, including mine, are a joke. $1.21 for regular you gotta be #hitting me!.
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September 1st, 2008 at 2:02 pm
#38 TED in Fort Myers Says: “If every one occupant vehicle on the interstate was getting 50 MPG. We could supply all of our own oil. If every little car was a VOLT using little or no oil, all of a sudden we have a commodity to sell instead of needing to buy.”
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I’m not sure this is correct.
As I understand it, about 70% of the oil consumed by the U.S. is imported. Of the total oil consumed, around 44% is used for gasoline. So even if we eliminated all of the gasoline we use today, we would still be importing a lot of oil.
In order to eliminate oil imports, we must develop bio-fuels for trucks and airplanes. Algae seems to be the most promising source for this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ToojK_MJd0
Also, we will need ethanol to replace the gasoline E-REVs will require for longer trips. Switch grass and/or algae look like the most promising sources for this.
In additon, we need to convert home heating oil to other fuel sources like natural gas.
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September 1st, 2008 at 2:06 pm
#41 fred Says: “the pic and all of the postings, including mine, are a joke. $1.21 for regular you gotta be #hitting me!.”
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Actually, that’s 1.27 (not 1.21) euros per liter, which works out to be around $7.65 a gallon. This is a good price for gas in Europe right now.
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September 1st, 2008 at 2:12 pm
#34 Rashiid Amul
“If it was AWD (All Wheel Drive), I would be very interested in purchasing it.”
A wagon format with AWD and ER-EV (or at least eFlex) … I’d be in heaven!
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September 1st, 2008 at 2:17 pm
#37 TED in Fort Myers Says: “The whole idea is to get soccer moms out of huge SUVs and into microvans even if powered by gas. Every gas dollar going out of the country and into the hands of terrorists who hate us kills our economy because we have to finance both sides of a war on terror.”
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I agree completely.
46% of the vehicles sold in the U.S. are light trucks (SUVs, Minivans, Pickups). Only a small fraction of the people who buy these vehicles really need them.
And I also agree that we’re financing both sides of the war on terror. We’re not the only ones who think so:
http://www.setamericafree.org/who.htm
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September 1st, 2008 at 2:29 pm
#34 Rashiid Amul,
#44 psklenar,
An AWD E-REV will probably use 4 electric motors, one in each wheel. Here’s an example:
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/hipa_faq.html
Note that each wheel motor only has to deliver around 1/4 of the total horsepower, so they’re much smaller and lighter than the Volt’s motor.
But with all the other things to worry about in the Volt’s drive train, this is too much of a risk, at least for now. I wouldn’t expect an AWD E-REV from GM until around 2014.
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September 1st, 2008 at 2:36 pm
i want an E-flex ESCLADE esv!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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September 1st, 2008 at 2:45 pm
I believe that thinking about an EV Minivan of any flavor is too soon, in my opinion.
It’s hard enough powering a sedan-sized vehicle with a battery that can handle highway speeds *and* long distances. It is even harder to power a minivan to go at highway speeds at long distance with a battery.
These things require steps. Lets first see how an EV sedan performs first, THEN work on the bigger vehicles.
Another issue is also cost.If the batteries for the Volt costs about $10,000 to go 40 miles at highway speeds…imagine how much it’ll cost to produce a battery that can do the same for a minivan, which weighs more and has a lot more drag then the Volt.
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September 1st, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Dave G #46, and Mark #48.
Yup. I realize these things need to come in steps and to not expect
an AWD anytime soon. Unfortunate as that may seem.
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September 1st, 2008 at 3:09 pm
#48 Mark,
The vehicle in the picture is a micro-van (not minivan) called the Tacuma. It is built on the same platform as the Chevy Cruze and Chevy Volt, so it’s small – about the same size as the Volt only taller. It would use the same drivetrain, but would be a little more sluggish, which is what you expect from this type of car. Note that an E-REV version of a Tacuma would require a new interior and exterior body design, tooling, parts, etc..
My thought was for a Volt Sport Wagon. GM did something similar with the Cadillac CTS Sport Wagon. Everyhing from the rear doors forward is exactly the same. Only the back of the car is different. This would be lower and longer than the Tacuma microvan, so it would have much better aerodynamics.
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September 1st, 2008 at 3:12 pm
psklenar #44,
My Subaru Outback Wagon died in the driveway back in May.
This will be the first winter in 7 years that I have to go without owning
and AWD or a 4WD. Honestly, I am not looking forward to the lovely ice and poorly plowed roads we have here in CT.
I will repeat what you said. I agree 100%
A wagon format with AWD and ER-EV (or at least eFlex) … I’d be in heaven!
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September 1st, 2008 at 3:14 pm
#49 Rashiid Amul,
If you’re looking for a wagon format with AWD and E-REV , check out the Volvo ReCharge:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=volvo+recharge&search_type=&aq=f
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September 1st, 2008 at 3:41 pm
#46 Dave G
“An AWD E-REV will probably use 4 electric motors, one in each wheel. …”
I believe that that would be the “ideal” way to implement an electric AQD drive train, but alas, short of NASA rovers on other planets, I don’t see that happening any time soon.
“I wouldn’t expect an AWD E-REV from GM until around 2014. …”
My hopes are for 2012 because that’s when I’d normally be ready to trade in my current car. If however, they are announced and expected to be on the market in only 2 years more … I just may well have to wait.
#48 Mark
“These things require steps. Lets first see how an EV sedan performs first, THEN work on the bigger vehicles.”
And, based on the reports we’re getting here and reading elsewhere on the net, that *does* appear to be GM’s plan, but I would like to get word to them that there *IS* interest in these types of vehicles as well (e.g.; AWD wagon).
#50 Dave G
“My thought was for a Volt Sport Wagon …”
Hmm … that might be able to make up for my loss of AWD.
#51 Rashiid Amul
I’m real sorry to hear about your OB dying.
I know what you mean about the lack of 4WD or AWD, but it may not be as bad as you expect. I went from an ‘88 Mitsu Montero (back when they were more “U”tility than “S”port) to a ‘94 Saturn SW2 wagon. I discovered the FWD Saturn handled the snow and ice far better than I’d ever expected. My biggest problem was ride height … if the snow was more than 6″ or so deep … I’d just ride up on to it and sit there spinning my wheels. But as long as I wasn’t trying to get thru anything “deep”, with good tires, it really handled everything the weather threw me in the Hartford, Tolland, Windham and, occasionally, Litchfield county areas. And that was a GM drive train.
#53 Dave G
“Volvo ReCharge”
100KM/charge … about 60 miles? Flex-fuel RE. Nice! But not available until 2015 or later … It’s unlikely this could be my next car, but perhaps the one after that? Unless GM decided to offer something similar …
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September 1st, 2008 at 3:48 pm
#35 Ted
Like I said, the keys are good aerodynamics and low weight. Your AC Propulsion conversion is actually a good example of the issues. Yes you get a 100+ range from a breadbox. That’s great. But the thing uses a 35 kWh battery pack! (Which is in part why the conversion is $55K).
Seriously, you get the same or greater range out of an Aptera with a 10 kWh battery pack. The difference: the Aptera is very lightweight and aerodynamic and the Scion isn’t.
Perhaps down the road batteries will have greater energy density and lower prices per kWh, but at the moment you can’t do much with a brick.
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September 1st, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Putting the motors in the wheels is an elegant solution but it has unsprung weight problems (handling, ride) and the available motors probably wouldn’t stand up to the punishment (not protected by the suspension).
Differentials are cheap and reliable which is why they’ll be on the Volt. Maybe someday we’ll see motors that will work in the hubs but that seems like it won’t happen for several years at least.
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September 1st, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Actually, a Volt Micro-van would have a lot of commerical appeal. Right away, I can see where it could be a winner for:
1) Urban Taxis. They’d be quiet, fuel efficient, and could plug in a charge while waiting for a rider. The size wouldn’t be an issue, since lots of cities are trying Prius taxis (which, by the way, are having all kinds of problems in New York City because the drive trains aren’t durable enough).
2) Postal Delivery. The ultimate start-stop application. Even better, if GM is building them for Europe and Australia, they already have a left-hand drive version.
3) Small delivery vans. The HHR is a big seller as a small delivery vehicle, and this could be the E-flex version.
Also, given that the best applications for the Volt Micro-van could be commercial applications (where initial cost is less important and ongoing cost is a bigger deal), GM could take advantage of the higher profile of the Micro-van and build a version with more batteries. Increasing the 16KWH battery 50% to 24KWH would double the electric range to 80 miles, which might be enough to run an entire working half-shift (4 hours) in some applications without switching to the ICE.
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September 1st, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Dave G #52
Thanks for that link. The Volvo Recharge will do quite nicely.
But it seems to be real late in coming. I hope there will be more
before 2015
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September 1st, 2008 at 5:56 pm
I’m a bit surprised no one’s mentioned GM’s “other plug-in”, a utility vehicle already in testing & due out perhaps even before the Volt …..the Saturn VUE Plug-in. GM expects this new CUV, with its newly-developed Li-Ion battery, to achieve overall mileage (local & highway) DOUBLE that of the 2-mode VUE that it’s derived from, which would make its overall mileage slightly higher than that for either a Prius or an average motorcycle! …..And it can haul plenty of stuff and tow 3,500lbs (probably comparable to, if not more than, the Tacuma will be able to either haul or tow)!
I sometimes think our members/readers here think the Plug-in VUE is still only a concept, when in reality it’s likely to appear at dealerships even BEFORE the Volt, since….
1) Plug-in VUE production model road testing is already underway
2) The Plug-in VUE’s factory/assembly line is already in operation
What gives?
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September 1st, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Quite frankly, Nasaman, 10-mile AER and interior volume I’ll use semi-annually doesn’t excite me (Saturn VUE plug-in). I hope Saturn’s Volt stablemate (new Aura?) comes out in a reasonable period of time.
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September 1st, 2008 at 6:25 pm
There is a German company that makes wheel hub motors that electrified a Mini Cooper as a test.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/08/the_hybrid_mini.php
There is another that makes bus wheel hub motors. The large diameter motors provide excellent torque for their weight. The controlling software would be interesting, but you could do individual wheel traction control.
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September 1st, 2008 at 6:33 pm
#55 DonC Says: “Putting the motors in the wheels is an elegant solution but it has unsprung weight problems (handling, ride) and the available motors probably wouldn’t stand up to the punishment (not protected by the suspension).”
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Actually, the company that makes the wheel motors says the unsprung weight is about the same. Here’s the blurb from their site:
High unsprung weight?
The unsprung weight has increased by less than 2 kg over the original standard Mini. This has been achieved in the first part by removal of the disc, brake caliper, half shafts and cv joints. Secondly we have designed a very light motor and electronics system. As a comparison the power electronics (included inside the wheel) is around 20 times lighter than the lightest currently available alternative! The motor is around 5 times lighter than the closest rival. So we have a 350v 400A continuously rated (0ver 600A peak rating for a few seconds, although this has so far not been used!) system which weighs less than 24kg total.
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/motors/hipa_faq.html
They also say their motors are 20 times more reliable than conventional systems
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September 1st, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Len Says: “There is a German company that makes wheel hub motors that electrified a Mini Cooper as a test.”
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Actually, it’s an English company:
http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html
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September 1st, 2008 at 6:35 pm
59 Jackson……….
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I’ve extensively scoured GM’s ads, web-site descriptions, etc, and they’ve NEVER said the Plug-in VUE’s AER is limited to 10 miles. Instead, they consistently say the electric-range is AT LEAST 10 miles (and as GM knows, and you’ll probably recall from my previous posts, the only hardware change needed to triple or quadruple that range at highway speeds is a larger battery.) And my frame of reference in post 58 wasn’t sedans like the Aura or the Volt, but vehicles that could compete with the Tacuma (the subject of this thread).
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September 1st, 2008 at 6:40 pm
Nasaman @ 58,
I know all about GM’s plug-in Vue which is set for production shortly, but frankly, all EV mode of 10 miles doesn’t cut it. The Volt’s 40 barely cuts it. I want an electric vehicle and 10 miles of range doesn’t qualify in my book…I’ll be buying petro at my normal rate, too often.
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September 1st, 2008 at 6:51 pm
64 Dave B……… See my post #63
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September 1st, 2008 at 6:54 pm
51 Rashiid:
Very sorry to hear that. You could move to Northern Indiana…we know how to plow roads here so that you would hardly need the 4WD
If you have some cash there are plenty of used SUVs available now for very very very reasonable that would get you through a couple winters. Heck, If I didn’t need it myself I would give you my winter vehicle (98 GMC Jimmy 95k miles, runs like a charm and paint job is still great)
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September 1st, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Dave G.
You are right, must have had a neuron misfire.
They have three motors listed on their site and the one they used was the heavest of the bunch. Your unsprung weight could actually be lighter than stock if you were not going for 650 hp.
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September 1st, 2008 at 6:57 pm
MPG BOOST
MPG BOOST
MPG BOOST
How many times must that be said before the comparing FULL hybrids to Volt finally stops?
EV range doesn’t make any sense for the FULL hybrid, since taking advantage of the engine at times before the extra battery capacity is used up will routinely occur.
Continuing to misrepresent will end up harming the reputation of Volt supporters. Being constructive is very important. Focus on MPG, purchase Price, and available Capacity is by far the better approach.
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September 1st, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Random GM Plug-In news:
Interview with the GM Executive Director of Executive Power Engineer Whosiwhats (how many friggin’ executive directors does GM have anyway.?) talking about the Plug-In Saturn Vue:
http://blog.gmnext.com/?p=246
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September 1st, 2008 at 7:28 pm
#22 JEC, I like what you wrote. Seems like you have your priorities right. I think that once the Volt sets the tone for GM’s electrification of the automobile they can then do a Geo Metro-like model. This would be one of the most exciting, affordable, highest volume, and significant in terms of getting us to use less oil car. I just want a very small car with enough safety systems to help me survive a crash. It should have all-around airbags and very good energy absorbing technologies. I don’t care if the entire car crumbles as long as the me and the battery stay in one piece. There should also be a model with the absolute barest amount of options. I’m talking roll-down windows and no AC.
I’m sure there are quite a few people that will be very interested in a very environmentally friendly model. It’s not exactly like the Geo Metro where the owner was looked at as being a cheapskate with no sense of fashion. This new ultra ECO model could be passed off as extremely cool and the driver could claim that they only want to do what’s best for the environment. In short, the driver could still be able to get a date with this car, unlike the Geo-Metro. Heck, I would drive a motorcycle if it was not so dangerous or uncomfortable when it rained (snowed).
GM, please give us the most ECO and safe car model you can as soon as you can (after getting the Volt completed). We as a society really will need The People’s E-REV (plug-in hybrid). Might not be fancy but it will sell like hotcakes and get the job done.
Set these ultra ECO models up in all of the shut-down factories and in a few years we could tell you know who to go you know what.
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September 1st, 2008 at 7:36 pm
#51 Rashiid
Consider getting a new or used Silverado truck with 4wd before winter. It will still have 20ish gas mileage, and the performance in snow and ice is really really strong in auto mode, and even better in 4wd mode. As you know, you can get either right now at almost a give away price.
When an EREV becomes available, trade it in. In the meantime, you will enjoy being very confident you are going to get to where you need to go, if it can be done. These are wonderful bad-weather vehicles — that is part of the reason so many have been sold.
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September 1st, 2008 at 7:37 pm
Morgan # 66.
Thanks. I’ve been thinking about doing that actually. Earlier today
I was discussing it with my wife.
You say you live in Northern Indiana. I lived in WI for the winter of 1994-1995. They do know how to take care of snow. They remove it from the road. They plow all the snow into the middle of the road, then load it on a dump truck and drive it away. Here in CT they just plow it to the side and block everyone’s driveway while along destroying the curbs on the roads. And they use rocks on the road instead of sand. This is a great place to live…really. No honest it is…….NOT.
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September 1st, 2008 at 7:38 pm
#59 Jackson Says: “Quite frankly, Nasaman, 10-mile AER and interior volume I’ll use semi-annually doesn’t excite me (Saturn VUE plug-in). I hope Saturn’s Volt stablemate (new Aura?) comes out in a reasonable period of time.”
————————————————————————————–
I agree. A 10 mile range that’s not even all electric is not worth plugging in, especially at only 28 MPG.
http://mysite.verizon.net/vzenu6hr/ebay_pictures/cr_hy_3.jpg
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September 1st, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Nasaman
To me the Saturn VUE sounds good. The fact that it will be first out, apparently, is even better.
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September 1st, 2008 at 8:08 pm
GM still is showing the Concept Volt in the pictures in their ad accompaning this site, right now, and presumably the same video is being shown elsewhere, today. While I love the Concept, it seems to me this ongoing advertising of how it looks will work against GM as time goes by. Why are they doing this?
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September 1st, 2008 at 8:14 pm
>> I agree. A 10 mile range that’s not even all electric is not worth plugging in, especially at only 28 MPG.
What part of MPG BOOST aren’t you understanding?
The normal 28 MPG could result in an average nearly DOUBLE that.
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September 1st, 2008 at 8:23 pm
#76 john1701a
“What part of MPG BOOST aren’t you understanding?
The normal 28 MPG could result in an average nearly DOUBLE that.”
It would double that for 20 miles and then your mileage would be 28MPG until you had a chance to plug in and recharge for how ever many hours it takes this car to recharge fully (overnight?).
If I drove 20 miles or less per day, I would probably be very interested & would be able to buy much less gas. But I drive a minimum of 40 miles per day …
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September 1st, 2008 at 8:30 pm
72 Rashiid Amul
Rashiid, not sure which part of WI you lived in, but I lived in WI for 44 years, and I continue to shovel snow out of my driveway. I have never had the snow hauled away, the just push it to the side and wave at you as they pass.
Now on the major roads, they will bring in the dump trucks, because you cannot keep piling it up. We had a record snow last winter and it was a major pain in the back (literally, of course).
Also we don’t use much sand, mostly salt (are you sure they used rocks? Maybe rock salt, but unlikely just rocks?…). Last year they ran out of salt in many counties, so we basically skated our cars across the roads.
I would like to order my Volt with the optional snow plow attachment, please.
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September 1st, 2008 at 9:05 pm
>> It would double that for 20 miles and then your mileage would be 28MPG
That is NOT how it works. No wonder there is so much confusion.
During the time that the plug-in supplied electricity is available, the MPG would be much, much, much higher. Prius owners with the augmentation are now reporting efficiency during that time to be around 150 MPG.
The part that continues to be overlooked/misunderstood is that guessitmated value of 60 MPG is an overall AVERAGE, not just what you get initially.
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September 1st, 2008 at 9:18 pm
For those who need an SUV the plug-in Saturn Vue sounds great. It won’t do for me, since I truly want a highway capable electric drive. I’ve seen a shadow of the promised land (what an ev can do NiMH EV1), though I might be old and tired, I will continue to press on!
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September 1st, 2008 at 9:52 pm
If this comes out about 2112 as an e-flex with a 32 mile range, or better, I will grab it with open arms instead of the Volt. It’s quite close to what I have now, and would involve only a small compromise to what I have now (size wise).
On a side note : PEMEX recently announced that Cantarell Field produced just 1,010,000 barrels of oil per day in July, versus 1,050,000 barrels per day in June. That’s a drop of 40,000 barrels per day, in just one month.
Source:http://peakopps.blogspot.com/2008/08/cantarell-loses-production-at-rate.html
I am still predicting average monthly prices of $150 to $180 by year end. Although more to the bottom end of the range.
Last year prices dropped in August and December as well.
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September 1st, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Regarding the plug-in Saturn Vue, let’s consider convenience.
With the Volt, I have to plug in every night and unplug every morning. This takes maybe 30 seconds each, or about a minute a day. And since the Volt has a 40 mile all-electric range, I’d probably have to go to the gas station 2-3 times a year.
Compare that to a regular car, where I have to go to the gas station about once a week. Since each trip for gas takes about 10 minutes, plugging in the Volt ends up taking less time, so the Volt is more convenient.
No enter the plug-in Prius and Saturn Vue. With these cars, I have to plug in every night, unplug every morning, and make frequent trips to the gas station. This makes them the least convenient.
So for my money, I would rather spend a little more and get an E-REV that uses much less gas and is more convenient.
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September 1st, 2008 at 10:34 pm
>> I’d probably have to go to the gas station 2-3 times a year.
Nope.
You still have to wipe the windows at least once a week to remove winter salt, a task normally performed DURING the tank refill, which is easier to do at a gas station where fluid & squee-gee are readily available and you don’t have to worry about the drippings.
Of course, Volt will require daily engine running in the north anyway. So, owners will be stopping more often than that estimate anyway.
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September 1st, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Choice is the name of the game. For my wife and I the Vue would be a perfect replacement for our Pontiac Aztek in about 6 years. For others the Volt works better. For some the “Tacuma” (please do something with that name) would be the trick. Still others would need/prefer a EREV pickup. The more choices we have the more likely everyone will experience some degree of satisfaction. One size simply doesn’t fit everyone.
As for speculation, it reminds me of what an old man I used to work with said. He meant to say “speculation” but he said, “All you’ve got is stimulation, pure stimulation”. Maybe that’s all we have here, pure stimulation. But it would be nice when we retire the AWD Aztek to have several choices of EREV vehicles to stimulate us.
Peace and 73
Adam WK4P
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:04 pm
73, 82 Dave G… You say, “A 10 mi range that’s not even all electric is not worth plugging in, especially at only 28 MPG. http://mysite.verizon.net/vzenu6hr/ebay_pictures/cr_hy_3.jpg”
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Dave, 1) 28 mpg is the overall mileage for the NON-plug-in 2-Mode VUE; GM says the overall mileage for the Plug-in VUE will be twice that, or 56 mpg; 2) GM has also just announced the Plug-in VUE will have a 20 mile EV-only range (not 10) (see http://blog.gmnext.com/?p=246) (Thnx for this link, Statik).
76, 79 john1701a ……… You say, “(Re: the Plug-in VUE) During the time that the plug-in supplied electricity is available, the MPG would be much, much, much higher. Prius owners with the augmentation are now reporting efficiency during that time to be around 150 MPG. The part that continues to be overlooked/misunderstood is that guessitmated value of 60 MPG is an overall AVERAGE, not just what you get initially.”
————————————————————————————–
You’re right, John! Thanks for this clarification.
Summary: The Plug-in VUE’s overall mpg of 56-60 mpg, combined with its larger hauling & towing capacities, should make it an extremely attractive option, especially for those who need the larger interior space of an SUV as well as the ability to tow 3,500 lbs in a vehicle with a high-tech V-6 (like the CTS engine) that gets 3-4 times the overall mileage of the same CUV with a 4-cylinder gas engine.
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Seems like it would be pretty straight forward to build a 6 passenger micro-van out of the Volt. That’s exactly what Mazda did. The Mazda 3 compact car and the Mazda 5 micro van share the same chassis.
GM is sometimes criticized for showing too many of their cards, possible as a publicity stunt. I don’t agree, but regardless, a Volt-based micro-van could be a secret card that GM is holding close to their chest.
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:21 pm
PS: (to my post #85)…….
1) The Plug-in VUE will use GM’s new 2-mode system, which is designed to achieve the best mpg BOTH locally (mode 1) AND highway (mode 2).
2) It will be the first front wheel drive version of the 2-Mode system. (GM’s Tahoe & Yukon 2-Mode hybrids drive all 4 wheels at some cost in efficiency the VUE does not experience.)
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September 1st, 2008 at 11:47 pm
#81 NZDavid
“If this comes out about 2112 as an e-flex …”
I can’t wait that long
.
As far as the Vue, I have to ask, “how much?” So, I guess I can’t afford it.
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September 2nd, 2008 at 12:31 am
#88 ThombDbhomb Says: “As far as the Vue, I have to ask, “how much?” So, I guess I can’t afford it.”
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The Saturn Vue hybrid costs $27K, so my guess is that the Vue plug-in will cost around $30K. You’ll also get a tax credit, even for the non-plug-in hybrid, but how much of a tax credit depends on who gets elected.
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September 2nd, 2008 at 12:40 am
>> The Saturn Vue hybrid costs $27K, so my guess is that the Vue plug-in will cost around $30K.
BAS is the $27K hybrid Vue, which is just a mild ASSIST type.
The Two-Mode version will cost quite a bit more, since it is the much more capable FULL type.
As for the significant increase in kW capacity, that battery is going to add way more than $3K.
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September 2nd, 2008 at 5:10 am
Any chances of an E-REV convertable in our future? Guess I am happy getting away from the wedges of cheese Prius.
GM just build the thing with current battery technology and upgrade it when avl.
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September 2nd, 2008 at 6:16 am
JEC #78
I lived in Weyauwega, WI. Based on my experience there, I assumed that everyone there did snow removal. Guess not. We were responsible for the driveway, but the town did the roads and the sidewalk.
CT uses sand, but it is unfiltered and mixed with rocks.
I believe they no longer use salt on the highways. Instead they use this liquid stuff that they spray on the roads before the storm starts. Sometimes a few days before. I have no clue what it is called. But it leaves 5 evenly spaced lines on each lane of the highway. During the storms they spread sand with rocks mixed with something else. I think manganese?.
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September 2nd, 2008 at 6:47 am
“Tacuma”? What a great name. My recommendations for future GM vehicle names that can really distinguish them from their arch-competitor include Preus, Carulla, and Kamry. There’s nothing quite as effective as unique branding!
(pssst… Kill the name, GM….)
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September 2nd, 2008 at 7:22 am
Speculation or not….
An additional body style (microvan) makes complete sense – and if there is production capacity at the same facility as VOLT production, then it makes even more sense. The marketplace would eat up every microvan they could turn out. There are so many additional applications for a vehicle like this vs. a sedan – think of any small business that does delivery of any kind – florists, deli’s, etc – it would be perfect.
If it is offered only as a E-flex powertrain, then they can call it the VOLT sport wagon. If they offer it with a conventional ICE powertrain as well – then I suggest GM gives it a seperate name.
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September 2nd, 2008 at 7:31 am
#79 john1701a
“The part that continues to be overlooked/misunderstood is that guessitmated value of 60 MPG is an overall AVERAGE, not just what you get initially.”
#85 nasaman
“The Plug-in VUE’s overall mpg of 56-60 mpg …”
Interesting. That is not what the gentleman from GM said in the GMNext video linked above. He states a 20 mile battery range and also that “you get double the mileage while the battery lasts”. He didn’t say anything about doubled mileage *overall*. Can you provide a link to where that’s been suggested or indicated? If this is the case, the Vue may wall be a very good option for me since I’ve had a good experience with a Saturn in the past.
Thanks
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September 2nd, 2008 at 8:25 am
Note that in this picture the mirror is on a stalk. The design engineer for Volt mentioned that they reduced wind resistance with this design.
Even if this is not an eflex platform it is good to see that GM is taking what they haved learned to other vehicles. I’m just bummed that they shared these tips with the competition.
I’d like to see a design for eflex with a CNG powered motor for fleets. It would be interesting to know the impact of the weight/space requirements for the conversion kits. We have so many city/county/state vehicless that just don’t need to run on gasoline. I’m thinking of most patrol vehicles, meter readers etc.
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September 2nd, 2008 at 9:51 am
______________________________________________________
Three Blue Tarps daydream…
The bases are loaded with two outs and Lutz is due up at bat.
On 3rd: Chevy Volt (E-Flex 2010 Production)
On 2nd Chevy Tacuma (E-Flex 2010 Production)
On 1st Cadillac Provoq (E-Flex 2010 Production)
The loyal GM fans are roaring, stomping, and praying. They have been waiting eagerly for such a moment. The players on the opposing team nervously twitch with a common perplexed expression screwed onto their faces; they are wondering how GM was able to sneak up on them with such brute force. Coach Wagner gives Lutz a thumbs-up as Lutz steps up to the plate. Whack! The clear sound only heard from a solid square hit. It’s out of the ballpark! What an upset! This will go down in history.
Just a dream?
_____________________________________________________
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September 2nd, 2008 at 11:31 am
95 psklenar ……… You’re right that Larry Nitz, GM’s Executive Director of Powertrain Engrng, in the video link I gave in post #85, states a “20 mile battery range and that you get double the mileage while the battery lasts”.
————————————————————————————–
Although I can’t say with certainty that he’s mistaken, this simplified explanation in this video substantially UNDERstates the internal design objective for the Plug-in VUE that I’ve read in posts by the Saturn Division General Manager (Jill Lajdziak) and the vehicle’s Chief Engineer (Marty Hogan). I can’t find a link to those comments, but I’m certain that they’ve both said the Plug-in VUE’s overall mpg would be about “double the overall mileage (of the NON-plug-in 2-Mode VUE)”.
Based on this, here’s my view of what to reasonably expect, assuming GM makes full use of the fact the 2-Mode base vehicle has two separate 74Hp electric motors (either of which can propel it at well beyond 70mph with NO assistance from the gasoline engine)…..
Assume the vehicle is operated mostly, if not entirely on battery power for its first 20 miles, meaning its equivalent mpg is something like 150mpg (i.e., the same as the Volt achieves for 40 miles)*. Then, with the battery depleted, it continues for another 20 miles at 28 mpg to complete the NHTSA’s “40 mile range for 78% of all driver’s daily requirements criteria” also used for the Volt. With the first half of the 40 miles at 150mpg & the second half at 28mpg, the equivalent overall mpg (including cost of electricity to recharge the battery, as well as fuel) would be…..
(150mpg + 28mpg) / 2 = 89mpg, which I think may very likely OVERstate the equivalent mpg for a 40 mile range. However, I believe there’s a very strong likelihood GM will achieve what the other GM officials I cite above have publicly (in print) indicated —- i.e., about 56mpg, over a 40 mile daily driving distance. I hope this helps.
*Assumes current average electric KWH costs & gasoline costs across the U.S.
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September 2nd, 2008 at 11:45 am
Works for me if I can’t get a pickup. The old S-10 is doing great at 208K miles, but it can’t last forever. I really like looks of the Mazda 5. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I can’t deal with the HHR. Sorry.
With the larger frontal area, probable worse Cd, and more weight (yes Virginia, weight does count), it’s hard to see the AER or mileage being as good as the Volt, however. Maybe by the time this comes out, the technology will have improved?
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September 2nd, 2008 at 11:57 am
Rashiid:
Poor CT! My adopted state does have a a lot going for it:
Days I used AC: 2
Days I evacuated: 0
Days my house was damaged by natural disasters: 0
Hours I sat in traffic of no sane origin: 0
Days I was told there was a water shortage: 0
Days that I ate REAL apizza, not that crud the rest of you think is a pie: 365
The worst part about CT is not ENOUGH snow to teach people how to drive it propperly.
Oh, and a mini mini-van is a perfect match for e-rev, even a 20-30 mi e-rev. Most mini-van rides are less than 7 miles round trip, I’d guess from our experience. The plug-in vue would be perfect.
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September 2nd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
nasaman (and other VUE supporters):
That does sound much more impressive than what I understood the plug-in Vue to be. It might be a good interim for a would-be EREV truck owner. At the moment, that does not include me; but it’s certainly more worthy of my attention as the whole electrification thing proceeds. I am already attentive to any move by Saturn to adopt Volt technology.
~~~
I agree that “Tacuma” is a terrible name.
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September 2nd, 2008 at 1:01 pm
nasaman,
Regarding your reply #98 – I’m glad I didn’t miss something in the video. I really am trying to learn.
If, as you believe you’ve read elsewhere, the 2-mode Plug-in Vue can attain an overall average ~56MPG … It certainly sounds like this may well be a viable option for me if the Volt is too expensive or delayed or something. Thank you. I’ll have to keep a closer eye on this option.
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September 2nd, 2008 at 2:47 pm
The more the merrier!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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September 3rd, 2008 at 7:08 pm
As much as I love the concept of the Chevy Volt EREV, I know that the Saturn Vue (2-mode plug-in) or a possible EREV Tacuma model will better suit my needs. In any case – I’ve been warning my wife that my mid-life crisis car is going to have to be plug-in!
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