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The Chevy Volt Will Have iPod Connectivity (Plus More Design Issues)

August 24th, 2008 | Posted in: Design, Features, Interior

The other day, GM hosted a live online chat with about 50 people and Volt chief designer Bob Boniface. Some of the discussion highlights follow.

Asked what his favorite exterior styling feature is, Bob said he “loves the headlamps.” He addresses how different the Volt will be than a Prius saying “there many ways to make a car aerodynamically efficient, not one size fits all, all E-Flex cars will be unique from one another.” He assures us the Volt will beat the Prius in “efficiency, looks, and handling.”

He noted that surprisingly, aerodynamic performance is critical even at city speeds.

Our reader TallPete asked about maximum driver height. Bob noted the Volt (like all GM cars) can accommodate up to a 6′4″ male (95th %ile) in the front and rear, and assured him that even larger occupants will still fit.

Our reader Nasaman asked whether there would be movable front grill louvers and Bob noted that the grill panels are fixed.

We also found out that Volt weight will be slightly heavier than comparably size cars due to the “additional mass of the batteries” but that mass has less impact than aerodynamics on range.

Bob said the interior is “FANSTASTIC,” and indicates there will be ipod connectivity, USB audio ports, and bluetooth provided.

I asked if the bowtie was specially aerodynamically tweaked and Bob replied that the bowtie is “nicely integrated into the aero grille.”

Bob noted GM has developed a “good strategy” to address the stale gas issue.

I also asked whether future E-Flex vehicles might have different battery shapes so that 3 people could fit in the back seat. He said somewhat cryptically “obviously we’d like to use the battery in its current configuration in other vehicles where it fits.”

He mentioned the Volt will have a folding rear seat creating a flat cargo area. He also said seating comfort and entry/exit were definitely a priority and will be competitive with others in the market.

I asked about the percentage of components that have been sourced at this point and he said “many of the major components have already been sourced.”

Asked about the tires he said “low rolling resistance tires will be used” and that he’s not sure on their cost, “but to keep in mind that it has to be a vehicle for masses”

Posted by: Lyle

169 Responses to “The Chevy Volt Will Have iPod Connectivity (Plus More Design Issues)”

omegaman66 Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 6:21 am

WOW, I’m number one!!!

In keeping with my new cynical nature here. That is all we get from a chat with 50 people!!! How about posting the chat messages themselves in its entirety!

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Dave G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 6:29 am

I wonder what the USB connectors are for…

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Dick G. Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 6:34 am

# 1 omegaman66
Easy, Lyle is a very busy man,….You’ll get more information if he thinks you need to know….

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nasaman Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 6:39 am

As a consequence of Boniface’s answer to my chat question about grill louvers, I posted the comment below on his GM Fastlane blog at: http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2008/08/all_eyes_on_the_volt.html#comments

“Bob Boniface -

The Volt’s front end design shown above is gorgeous …with one major caveat! As several others here have already mentioned, the fake upper grills are a huge styling mistake, one that IMO nearly everyone will eventually come to dislike! Why not instead employ GM’s existing simple, inexpensive actuator-operated mechanisms (louvers) behind the grills shown to control air flow into the Volt’s under-hood area?

As you know, the actuator-controlled spring-loaded mechanisms I’m talking about are based on very simple, reliable, existing GM technology intended for exactly this purpose ….i.e., closing a vehicle’s grill openings as vehicle speeds increase to provide BOTH reduced drag as speed increases AND improved cooling under low-speed, high ambient temperature conditions. They were included on the Cadillac Provoq concept revealed early this year as shown in this high resolution photo….

http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/ces-2008-cadillac-provoq-live-reveal-2/569301/full/

The Volt’s 1.4L gas engine, comfort A/C, the battery cooling loop (if separate from the comfort A/C), as well as all motors/generators/controllers which could collectively dissipate several hundred watts ALL must be cooled under worse-case conditions such as…. battery discharged (gas engine running) when stalled in heavy traffic or stopped in Death Valley at ambient temps of 120 F or more. I recognize that the large blacked-out grill below the Volt’s “bumper area” would very likely admit enough fan-forced air to cool the radiators placed directly behind it. But the increased aerodynamic drag caused by admitting air into the under-hood area of the car, whether done through this low-mounted, blacked-out grill or through the high-mounted grills, simply CANNOT be insignificant!

I strongly suggest this matter be carefully worse-case analyzed before any decision is finalized that avoids use of GM’s existing, inexpensive actuator-operated mechanisms to control air flow into the Volt’s under-hood area! Breakdowns in hot summer traffic stalled on Phoenix or Houston freeways and with the A/C on full blast would be DISASTROUS to GM’s reputation and to Volt sales!!!”

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Joe Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 6:40 am

I can think of one and I’m sure there are more reasons. The USB could be used to upgrade the software.

The more I here about the Volt, the more I like it. Keep up the good work GM!!!!!

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nasaman Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 6:55 am

Re: my post #4 above…..

Responding to my posts objecting to the fake grills, a GM CAD designer said, “I’m actually working on those grills. Not done with the design yet but getting there. We’re trying to get enough air around the outside of the grill so that we don’t need to open it up. Its a styling thing. They like the looks of it. Sorry man, no spring loaded mechanisms.” He later followed this post by…..

“This is hilarious. I’m not used to people talking about designs we’re currently working on. We just got out of a meeting (of) CRFM* people and yes its a big deal. They need a fixed amount of airflow in order for this thing to work and currently we’re not hitting the target. But don’t worry we have a couple of proposals in the works to address the problem. Yes most of the airflow will come from the lower grill but it will be funneled directly thru the radiators and kept from the engine compartment using a fairly complex set of baffles. Its all being worked out as we speak. We won’t let any of that drag producing airflow go to waste. Now I gotta get back to work….breaks over.” Hopefully, GM really is paying attention to our comments here, folks!

*CRFM = Condenser, Radiator & Fan Module

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Jim I Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:07 am

I also hope that the USB ports will let us hook up other types of MP3 players.

I am not really a fan of Apple………..

26 months and one week to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Dave G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:10 am

#5 Joe Says: “The USB could be used to upgrade the software.”
————————————————————————————–
This would be a reliability disaster. If GM allows users to upgrade software, then 3rd party hack software will be developed with all sorts of bugs, or people will use 2012 software for 2011 cars. GM won’t allow this kind of nightmare to happen.

Maybe if there is a separate info-tainment system that’s completely non-critical, then software upgrades may make sense, but I’m sure even this would cause a ton of headaches in the service department.

Cars are very different than PCs and MP3 players…

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psklenar Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:12 am

#2 Dave G.
“I wonder what the USB connectors are for…”

As #5 Joe suggests, they may be usable for s/w updates, but more prosaically, they can be used to play music from by the entertainment system for those of us who haven’t drunk from the iPod kool-aid. For example, I have two 8GB USB flash drives full of music for my Kenwood DNX series head unit.

#4 nasaman

I’m confused. If I’m reading your posts correctly, you seem to be stating that the below bumper cooling intake will cause too drag because it can’t be closed off for aerodynamics, yet you then go on to outline the, rightfully, serious risks of insufficient cooling airflow.

After reading Mr Boniface’s and Volt Designer’s comments (from an earlier article’s comment thread), it sounds to me like they’ve got the cooling figured out via ducting to put the airflow where it’s needed while admitting only what they need to do the job. Regardless of this technology you are pushing being “simple” and “inexpensive”, isn’t it merely adding more complexity for the sake of complexity? Even simple things break or malfunction … if that happened to your cooling system, you’re screwed. No risk of that with an always open grill.

What happened to the K.I.S.S. principle?

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Dave G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:24 am

#6 nasaman,

This is amazing! It looks like the internet will change the way we do everything…

By the way, how did the CAD person respond? Was it a forum reply or a PM?

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nasaman Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:34 am

9 psklenar…..

Any air admitted to the underhood area will increase drag. GM recognized this would be a problem with electric cars, so they developed a very simple, speed-controlled louver system to be placed BEHIND the grills that allows ample air flow at all speeds and also minimizes drag.

Ideally, this system would allow the grills (2 upper, 1 lower) to remain fully open in slow-moving traffic or parked for best cooling, and to be fully closed at moderate or highway speeds to minimize drag. The system can easily be designed to be fail safe (i.e., to fail open like older model Transam & Corvette headlight “lids” failed open) and should be very inexpensive.

I LOVE the design of the “Chevy Signature” upper grills, but I HATE that they’re fakes, and I believe over time many other potential buyers will come to hate this too! It’s just not worth saving a few bucks to cut corners like this!!!

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TED in Fort Myers Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:58 am

I’m with you nasaman. Open grill at low speeds and closed at higher speeds. Also, love the IPOD hookup. I have one in my Insight and it works like a charm.
Take Care,
TED

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Morgan Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:04 am

2 Dave G:

As others have said…the USB connection is for other types of music players, memory sticks filled with MP3s, or SOFTWARE UPDATES. I am surprised they don’t have an SD Card port as well.

If they have an Aux In located on the rear then GM is actually 30 steps ahead of the other OEMs as an Aux In would allow you to put a forward facing FLIR camera, offboard Navigation, and a bunch of other options into the unit. All this stuff is fairly standard on aftermarket radio systems as far as the inputs goes. Ipod interface, USB port, SD Card, and an Aux in.

On the software updates: Nav systems have allowed user updating for quite awhile. Given the nature of this vehicle the onboard computer software is VERY important to the quality functioning of the vehicle. It is much better to have an easily accessible plug with a standard connection apparatus so you can update the vehicle firmware or the dealership can send a tech out to your home with a laptop..beautiful idea and 5 steps ahead of any other OEM. Currently you have to do the following: schedule a service appointment, go in, and the techs have to tear up the carpet plug in their non standard communication cable and hope they have the most recent version fo the vehicles firmware. This is time consuming and annoying. It also allows dealerships to play tricks with the software.

For instance: I have a BMW Z4 which, last year before I stored it, was getting 24 MPG. I took it out of storage this year and had a couple warning lights on. I took it to the local BMW dealership. A couple days later I get a call from the service tech telling me that it was a software problem and they updated the computer and everything was fine. He then went on to try and sell me a $1,000 system flush and engine cleaning which “Will give you several MPG better fuel economy.” I declined since the car had fluids checked last year before storage and is under 30k miles. Get the car back and their “software update” had taken my 24 MPG down to 21 MPG to try and sell me a system flush which I now suspect was merely a fluid exchange and a software change. Which is why I will never purchase another BMW.

sorry for the long winded post but these are a couple hot topics for me: system software and interior electronics.

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nasaman Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:05 am

1 omegaman66, 10 Dave G…..

1) Anybody who’d like screen caps of the entire Chat transcript w/ Boniface (2pgs in MS Word), send me a blank email subject, “Chat Xcript” at….. nasaman@earthlink.net

2) Dave, I don’t want to cause trouble for the GM guy who responded, not even by repeating his gm-volt.com name. To answer your question, scan thru this thread from several days ago…..

http://gm-volt.com/2008/08/19/gm-ceos-best-guess-volt-will-be-priced-in-mid-to-high-30s/

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MDDave Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:12 am

Reagarding the front grill louvers, perhaps GM can develop a system by which the force of the air travelling past the vehicle at higher speeds would push the louvers closed. And then at lower speeds, with little or no air to push them closed, they would swing open. If the louvers were balanced just right, this could work with no actuators, sensors, or other things that require power and are likely to break over time.

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TED in Fort Myers Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:13 am

NASAMAN

I would like to see the entire chat with Boniface. I can be reached at Brawnylad@hotmail.com . Thanks and Take Care,
TED

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TED in Fort Myers Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:44 am

I sure would like to know how the Volts will be distributed at the dealer level. Will I have to go to Miami to get one of the first Volts or will there be any in Southwest Florida? It sure would be nice to order one off the internet. In the order we are on the GM-Volt.com waiting list of course.
Take Care,
TED

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psklenar Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:45 am

#11 nasaman
“Any air admitted to the underhood area will increase drag. GM recognized this would be a problem with electric cars, so they developed a very simple, speed-controlled louver system to be placed BEHIND the grills that allows ample air flow at all speeds and also minimizes drag.”

I’d expect you’d still need cooling at high speeds as well, so it seems to me that a properly ducted intake that’s always open would be cheaper, more reliable and not *significantly* less clean (aerodynamically speaking) than a louvered system. But … I’m a DBA, not an engineer (changed career paths after having extreme difficulty with my fourth semester of Calculus and second of Set Theory ).

Oh, to reduce drag, wouldn’t the louvers have to be placed *in front* of the grill? Otherwise, you’d end up with a whole bunch of pockets of turbulence across the whole grill area that would disturb the airflow across/over the nose, thus increasing drag. Wouldn’t you?

#14 nasaman
“1) Anybody who’d like screen caps of the entire Chat transcript w/ Boniface (2pgs in MS Word), send me a blank email subject, “Chat Xcript” at…”

Thank you very much. Email sent.

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BRUCE Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:48 am

I have a big question for anybody- Why does the Volt get 40mi/charge and the RAV4 produced 10 years ago produced triple that? The EV1 got 60-70 mi/charge, which was a small 2 seater and the RAV4 is a small 4 seat SUV still on the road with the same batteries. Something does not make sense here. Were the batteries better? It seems to me the battery was better. Screw the oil company who holds the patent.

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Firefly Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:49 am

I agree with Nasaman. I would like opening louvers to facilitate extra cooling as well. It would seem an understatement. As far as connectivity, for me? Make it an SD high capacity slot. Not everybody has an iPod (consequently, not everyone wants one either…) Also, if it has Bluetooth, PLEASE make it the more advanced Bluetooth with A2DP stereo protocols – that makes my MP3 phone twice as useful.

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LyleL Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:51 am

All of this conversation about advanced technology is so uplifting.
I’m starting to feel optimistic that the Volt will happen and be an advanced car worth buying new. I’ve only purchased used at this point in my life. Why buy new, A car is a car. It has 4 wheels, rubber tires, reciprocating engine, burns gas. No incentive to purchase new. Now, there will be choice! The automotive world will be turned upside down. The Volt will satisfy my basic automotive desires.

1. The car does not require gas
2. Energy efficient, electric drive
4. Intelligent, oh how I like intelligent cars with built in diagnostics that the consumer has access to. The car should tell me when there are issues, right down to a brake light is burned out. My 1988 toronado’s alpha-numeric display alerted me a few years ago that the air-conditioning system had low coolant pressure. Fantastic!! More more more!!. For those techno-phobes, fine, make the menu’s LCD panels display a default simple to use interface. Now for the rest of us looking for a 21st century car, write the software to allow us to customize the display for detailed information to help us with hypermiling to get the most range on a charge. Also allow for the modification of coasting behavior e.g. default regen value, no-regen, and adjustable regen, when lifting the foot off of the accelerator. Save the values for driver 1, 2 etc…
5. Hopefully it will have wireless network access. Networking would allow for home monitoring/record keeping of charge per mile, remote diagnostic messages, charge time scheduling, pre-cool/heat scheduling all with a click from the home PC with a properly designed http interface. If it’s not standard, hopefully it will be optional for those of us who desire and are willing to be a guinea pig.

The above is why I will buy a new car rather than purchasing more fiscally responsible used cars. It’s an opportunity for GM to pull us cheap-skates out of the woodwork with the Volt.

Sorry for the ramble… It’s just that there’s hope after the EV1 era and it ’s getting hard to contain myself!

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TED in Fort Myers Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:59 am

EV-1 and RAV-4EV both were electric only and powered by much larger NiMH battery packs. Both were limited to the 125 miles per charge range and the Volt with a smaller Lion pack and an onboard generator will not have the range limitations. You give up this all electric range in exchange for unlimited miles per day. For some the BEV is the better format, for others the weekend trips make the VOLT the better format.
Take Care,
TED

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john1701a Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:59 am

>> He assures us the Volt will beat the Prius in “efficiency, looks, and handling.”

I thought the exterior design had already been locked for production.

How can he make that assurance about look without ever having seen the new model of Prius?

Of course, comparing to Prius is pointless anyway. They will be in entirely different price categories and one is a hatchback the other a sedan.

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Tim Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:03 am

Split-folding rear seats with a flat cargo area! I hope the cargo cover can be easily removed for loading large, bulky objects.

Happy Day!!!!!

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nasaman Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:04 am

18 psklenar ….. “You said, “…, to reduce drag, wouldn’t the louvers have to be placed *in front* of the grill?”

Good question! Note the following…..

1) A friend of mine from NASA’s JPL tells me, strange as it might seem, that fairly deep recesses (several inches) in the FRONT surfaces of a car, airplane, etc cause very little increase in turbulence and/or drag, based on wind tunnel tests done at JPL, so louvers BEHIND the Volt’s grills should work just fine.

2) Note the high res photo of the Caddy Provoq showing these speed-actuated louvers BEHIND its grills (closed, since it’s parked) in the link below…..

http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/ces-2008-cadillac-provoq-live-reveal-2/569301/full/

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john1701a Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:06 am

>> Asked about the tires he said “low rolling resistance tires will be used” and that he’s not sure on their cost, “but to keep in mind that it has to be a vehicle for masses”

How is an XL-rated LLR tire going to be priced affordably?

Support for that extra weight and minimum MPG impact doesn’t come without compromises. What about the traction & treadwear ratings? How commonly available will they be? What about the desire for a spare? History has already proven that this can be a problem.

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psklenar Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:27 am

#21 LyleL
“Hopefully it will have wireless network access. …”

I *LIKE* that idea and the proposed uses! Although for safety reasons, I might prefer an Ethernet jack as opposed to wireless. I mean, we’re going to be plugging this thing in when we pull into the garage anyhow, why not a network wire as well as the power? And since my house is already fully wired with jacks everywhere … makes it easy for me.

#25 nasaman
“A friend of mine from NASA’s JPL tells me, strange as it might seem, that fairly deep recesses (several inches) in the FRONT surfaces of a car, airplane, etc cause very little increase in turbulence and/or drag, based on wind tunnel tests done at JPL …”

Hmmm … sounds like the “boundary layer” they talk about on the Space Shuttle and how tile spacers can safely protrude a certain distance w/o “tripping” or disturbing it. I guess I assumed that “depth” of flow would only be available at high velocities and not at typical automotive speeds. Neat.

Oh, thank you for the transcript! Interesting reading.

#26 john1701a
“… Support for that extra weight and minimum MPG impact doesn’t come without compromises. What about the traction & treadwear ratings? How commonly available will they be? What about the desire for a spare? …”

One way to eliminate the need for a spare might be the “tweel” that one ore more tire companies are working on. My concern about the low rolling resistance however has more to do with New England winters … I need tires that will stick & hold in snow, slush and ice conditions.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:47 am

LyleL # 21.

Yes to bullets 4 and 5. What happened to bullet 3?

Bullets 4 and 5: I agree. Collecting all that data and allowing the customer to make intelligent decisions. The way I see it, as long as GM is collecting the data, they can do whatever they want with it.
I like you idea of giving a (dumbed down) default value for the screen.
And for those that are interested in more info, we can change the display. I hypermile now to work, the longest spot is 2 miles at roughly 55 MPH. The speed limit is 55 MPH. I would love to know what my MPG is during that time but have no idea how to calculate that. I guess I would need to know how much gas I am burning at idle.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:51 am

From the article:

……..“but to keep in mind that it has to be a vehicle for masses”

————-
So true. But then it needs to be priced from the masses.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:56 am

psklenar #27 says,
My concern about the low rolling resistance however has more to do with New England winters … I need tires that will stick & hold in snow, slush and ice conditions.

——–
I’m with you there. Not to mention those torrential downpours that we get. I don’t know where you are in N.E. but in Connecticut, we can have huge puddles on the highways.

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psklenar Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:01 am

#30 Rashiid Amul
“I’m with you there. Not to mention those torrential downpours that we get. I don’t know where you are in N.E. but in Connecticut, we can have huge puddles on the highways.”

East of the river in Hartford County. I commute 22mi over & down to Middletown. Those “puddles” are potholes, CT’s fast growing state “flower”.

Although … I’m into my 5th day with no precip right now … I can deal with it. This *IS* New England however, so we just need to wait a bit and it *WILL* change.

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Johnny Appleseed Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:16 am

Having an iPod/iPhone interface will be totally awesome. This shows that GM is indeed taking this car seriously. I also expect user upgrades to be allowed, otherwise the electronic displays and controls will become outdated rather quickly. The digital revolution is already in full gear and accelerating and its nice to see GM embracing it. Future iPhones are anticipated to be more powerful than current laptop computers which already far surpass the processing power found in all automobile microprocessors. There is no reason a future iPhone could not totally control the Volt while still playing MP3s and handling multiple phone calls concurrently. Now if GM could interface with the iPhones built-in accelerometer for tracking/performance tweaking and monitoring that would be nice.

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John C. Briggs Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:18 am

The USB connection will certainly be for MP3 files on a thumb drive. To me this seems to be a much more logical solution for car music than an iPOD.
An 8GB thumb drive is only $20 and could carry all your music. I love my iPOD, but I don’t see any reason to leave it in the car.

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GM 3G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:22 am

I am already overwhelmed by the thousands of programs already available for my iPhone on Apple’s App Store. I guess there will now be a whole new category of applications created for GM’s electric cars, WOW. Go Volt. Go Apple.

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vincent Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:30 am

The USB can be for limitless imagination. Interior themes if it allows “desktop” like changes to the instrument pods.
A flash drive for music and data is much lighter than a CD changer and uses little voltage…etc…

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Jeff M Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:30 am

I’m with the other guy who doesn’t do the iPod…. I bought my HDD based MP3 player several years before Apple came out with their proprietary player, and I see no reason to switch. So I hope for generic AUX input on the front that is either RCA connectors or mini plug.

As for Dave’s concern about allowing Volt software updates via the USB port and hackers…. it would be easy enough to have any software be digitally signed and checksumed such that only official updates from GM can be installed.

I do wonder how the rear seat will fold down to provide a “flat cargo area” if there is a big bump in the middle of the rear seat due to the battery pack? Does that mean the rear seat will be a full bench seat, and that the only issue is that the floor in the back will have the big bump in the middle? Ie. could actually probably sit 3 in the back if the person sitting there straddles the bump with their legs like lots of us were used to doing with the old rear wheel drive vehicles?

I do wonder also when they say the rear seat will fold down, if it will have the now standard 60/40 split fold down rear seats which allows folding down one half but still allowing you to carry one rear seat passenger?

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Dave G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:39 am

#19 BRUCE Says: “I have a big question for anybody- Why does the Volt get 40mi/charge and the RAV4 produced 10 years ago produced triple that?”
————————————————————————————–
Sure, I can answer this. It’s because GM designed the Volt specifically for 40 miles of all-electric range (AER).

GM did some research and found that 78% of the people in the U.S. drive less than 40 miles a day. This is the classic 80/20 marketing rule. The combination of 40 miles AER plus a gas/E85 range extender for occasional longer trips makes the Volt unbeatable for most people. Adding more batteries would just increase the cost and weight for something most people would rarely use.

And by the way, after the first 40 miles when the gas engine comes on, the Volt’s mileage of 50 MPG makes it very competitive.

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Joseph Biden Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:39 am

It would be nice if the Volt could automatically notify me via iPhone when any maintainence issues arise such as low oil, low gas, low tire pressure, low battery level, etc or even theft detterent issues.

As a side note. When will Americans be able to do absentee voting via iPhones ? There is no technical reason for not having this option. I am sure the Apple iPhone is more secure than those electronic balloting machines currently used in Florida.

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Cell Hell Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:49 am

I am more interested in the Volt’s TEXT MESSAGING capabilities. Text Messaging(TM) is becoming more important in auto travel everyday. Many states and cities now use TM to send out emergency road condition alerts, amber alerts, crime stopper alerts, etc.
Also many local police departments have setup TM centers to RECEIVE important crime notifications from ordinary citizens. Texting is the method of choice for the mobile traveler and the Volt must accommodate this need.

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Dave G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:53 am

USB audio ports

Thanks to nasaman for sending a transcript of the live chat with Bob Boniface. Now I see clearly that Bob Boniface confirmed “USB audio ports” and not “USB connectors”. So this would tend to suggest no user software upgrades, diagnostics, etc. through the USB ports.

Lyle, I suggest correcting this in the article. Thanks.

Note to GM, (if they are reading), USB ports that allowed users to monitor various systems would be a nice bonus. It would also be nice to upgrade/modify non-critical systems like GPS, audio, etc.. Non-geeks would never use these features, so they probably wouldn’t even know they exist. But for geeks, it would be icing on the cake…

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MarkFLL Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:55 am

I don’t want my Volt to be dependant on Apple’s Ipod, Iphone, or any of their proprietary software. You should be able to use any generic mp3 player as well as bluetooth phone. Better yet, like someone already posted, a slot for SD cards or USB for music.

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Evan Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:56 am

I seriously doubt the USB would be for software updates. I’m quite sure they’ll use the CAN-bus for such things and OEM tools/firmware.

However, it’s quite possible that the USB will allow you to download, from the car, efficiency data, MPG history, emissions results, top speed, battery SOC, etc. One forum I previously participated in had questions/surveys in regards to this…you may also be able to wirelessly download and track that information.

Certainly there may be some onboard computer access, but that seems less likely. Also, perhaps NAV updates can be updated or the NAV can be programmed that way…IOW you plan a trip on your home PC then upload that trip plan to the NAV via the USB.

I did NOT like the answer about the 5 seat configuration.

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Steve Wozniak Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:59 am

It is good to see GM associate with Apple products. Apple is known for making very high quality electronics and it can only be a plus for GM marketing to jump on board the unstoppable iPhone train.

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Dave G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:02 am

#36 Jeff M Says: “…it would be easy enough to have any software be digitally signed and checksumed such that only official updates from GM can be installed.”
————————————————————————————–
For hackers, this would be like waving a red flag in front of a bull. How long did it take to break DVD copy protection?

As I said, user software updates for non-critical systems (GPS, Audio, etc.) can be managed, but anything else would probably turn into a nightmare.

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Statik Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:08 am

#1 omegaman66 & others

“In keeping with my new cynical nature here. That is all we get from a chat with 50 people!!! How about posting the chat messages themselves in its entirety!”

I was on the chat, you missed nothing. It took up a whole hour and we got at most a couple dozen lines of text. Nothing was said and it moved at a glacial pace.

I don’t know if the GM guys just plain stalled it out as slow as they could to fill the hour, or no one at the other end knew how to moderate…but it was bad.

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intel inside Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:09 am

Just saying “USB” is kinda vague. Intel has already release the specs for USB 3.0 which is much much faster than today’s very slow USB 2.0 (480 mbit/sec). Also I assume the Volt will support Wireless USB that is already available in many devices since Wireless is part of the current USB specs. With USB support in the Volt I am sure that future upgrades will be effortless and more importantly idiot-proof.

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Lyle Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:10 am

Dave G
Thanks for pointing out the need for clarification..article changed to read USB audio ports as the questioner specifically asked.

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Statik Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:13 am

Other news that is related:

Spyshots of the new next gen Prius interior:

http://www.worldcarfans.com/9080822.014/page1/spies-catch-first-interior-shot-of-next-generation-toyota-prius

…again, perhaps illustrating where GM should be at this point rather than where they are. Next gen Prius is scheduled for a real 2010 release.

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Bill Gates Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:15 am

Welcome aboard !

Sincerely,

Steve Jobs
CEO Apple, Inc.

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Statik Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:18 am

He (Bob Boniface) addresses how different the Volt will be than a Prius saying “there many ways to make a car aerodynamically efficient, not one size fits all, all E-Flex cars will be unique from one another.” He assures us the Volt will beat the Prius in “efficiency, looks, and handling.”
——————

Seems like that might be tough to do, from the same article as the spyshots.

“The 1.5-liter engine will be replaced by a larger 100bhp 1.8-liter version which will improve high speed cruising of the vehicle. A new generation electric motor will boost the model’s total power to 160bhp and there are rumours of an optional solar panel roof being fitted to the model as well. Improvements will certainly get the thumbs up from the politicians, fuel economy could go down to as low as 2.9 litres per 100 kilometres (80 mpg) whilst emissions may drop below the 100g/km mark”

/just thought it was a interesting link/factoid to post…seeing how this was about the Volt interior and Bob threw the shot out across the Prius’ bow.

——-

To be fair about the interior link, this COULD be the ‘refresh’ interior. It’s not like Toyota would ever make any official statement either way. It is all pretty confusing with Toyota doing a ONE MODEL year touchup (could run to 18 months I guess).

I think Toyota is insane to even bother doing the ‘touch-up’ makes absolutely no sense to me…at all. They sell every car they build and have them back ordered 6 months…just a waste of cash in my mind.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:19 am

Statik # 48

Thanks for the link. I am not impressed with the interior.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:24 am

#39 Cell Hell.

I don’t think reading Text Messages while driving is a great idea at all.
However, if a Text to Speech program is available, then I’m all of it.

On the other hand though, I don’t know why the Volt has to do that at all. It can show the information right on the built in screen.

If it has Text Messaging, doesn’t that mean it also has to have a cell connection or IP connection? Does this mean yet another monthly bill?

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Richard Shelby Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:24 am

The more support for iPod the better in my opinion. I think there are 200 MILLION ipods out there folks and growing. Anything that would help sell a Volt is good for GM and will probably be good for Apple too.

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Statik Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:27 am

#51 Rashiid Amul

“Statik # 48
Thanks for the link. I am not impressed with the interior.”

——-

Yeah, it’s better, but it’s not like ‘whoop-de-doo’ better. Personally I like the connect dash/centre console look…I assume the Volt will be the same.

Of course, Prius is just selling a new hybrid upgrade model here. They aren’t representing ‘radical’ change or trying to get 45K for this thing, like the Volt. I don’t think they want to mess too much with a winner…this was about as much as I expected to tell you the truth.

/better, but not ‘risky better’

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Tim Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:41 am

Perhaps someone can answer this question for me:

Why do cars with automatic transmissions have a shifter on the center counsel when it serves no purpose, adds to clutter, steals storage and cup holder space and is more easily bumped out of gear there?

It makes sense in a manual transmission setup, but this makes no sense to me when the car is an automatic when we only need buttons for [forward] [reverse] [neutral] and [park].

What’s up with that?

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College Freshman Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:45 am

I don’t get all the fascination with Apple gadgets. But I do know my kids and most of their friends like the iPods and most are bringing Mac Computers to campus this year instead of PCs. I mostly use Microsoft Windows PCs at work but I do like that Unix operating system (OS X) used in the Macs, iPhone and iTouch. So, I think GM supporting Apple products is a smart move and can hep them keep a closer relationship with today’s youth and potentially having them become future GM owners.

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ThomC Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:49 am

#21 LyleL
“Hopefully it will have wireless network access. …”
If I were in GM product planning I would guarantee you the car will not have wireless network access for anything other than the entertainment center. While the idea of being able to upgrade the car’s software and firmware is certainly appealing, I would insist on a hardware-based firewall that would prevent any modifications to the car’s software without a GM approved access code, if for no other reason than warranties.

I can see a software industry building up to support these upgrades though. The software/firmware would need GM certification (think “Windows Certified”) to prevent voiding the car’s warranty. And the upgrade would have to be done by a GM certified tech with the appropriate certifications… although the actual update would probably be so simple your maiden aunt could do it.

If GM semi-automated the certification process, I can see a cottage industry evolving around these upgrades, with GM being able to cherry-pick the best upgrades for formal Volt upgrades. This would be great for GM, they’d be able to acquire and evaluate all of the new ideas and implementations at almost no cost. It’d be good for the Volt community because ideas for Volt revisions would not be restricted to GM design and development staff.

#27 psklenar
>> we’re going to be plugging this thing in when we pull into the garage anyhow, why not a network wire as well as the power?

I like the idea of the car being plugged into my house’s peer-to-peer LAN while being charged, being able to query the car’s onboard database for diagnostic-related data. It would be neat to have the kitchen laptop issue warnings when warranty-required maintenance was coming up (I’m sure I’ll live to regret that statement). Software on the laptop could even do analysis on driving patterns to predict how long before the maintenance was due (in both miles driven and time… like, to the hour).

I think it’d be important to have the “nag” software in some place other than the car… when I get into a car to go somewhere, I’m thinking about what I have to do to get to my destination. Having the car nag at me about an impending oil change is an annoying distraction that I’ll force out of my mind as fast as humanly possible.

#36 – Jeff M
>> I do wonder how the rear seat will fold down to provide a “flat cargo area” if there is a big bump in the middle of the rear seat due to the battery pack?

That was addressed by Dodge in the mid-60s with the ‘66 Charger. The first gen Charger had a pair of “bucket” rear seats (quotes because the seats had zero bolstering) with a center console that went all the way from the dashboard back to the area above the differential. There was an arm cushion on the center console. The two rear seat backs and the arm cusion were hinged to fold flat, giving a flat cargo area envied by station wagons everywhere. Problem solved.

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Hurtz Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:53 am

#55 Tim
Don’t know why they chose that location. But what I really hate is those new paddle shifters they put on the steering wheels, I can’t stand them, stupid idea, just put that manual shifter back on the floor where it belongs already.

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Dave G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

#55 Tim Says: “Why do cars with automatic transmissions have a shifter on the center counsel when it serves no purpose, adds to clutter, steals storage and cup holder space and is more easily bumped out of gear there?”
————————————————————————————–
I think this is because they want to keep the same configuration of controls around the steering wheel for both standard and manual transmissions. The headlights, turn signals, and wipers are all controlled from around the steering wheel.

On the Honda CR-V, there is no center console between driver and passenger. The floor goes continuous from side to side. So the shifter is sort of low on the dash and sticks out a little, like this:
http://automobiles.honda.com/cr-v/interior-photos.aspx

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Thomas Dolby Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

If GM was smart they would have iTunes pre-loaded on the Volt and accessible via one of the touch screen displays. Also, bluetooth 2.0 support is a must have so that incoming phone calls automatically interrupt stereo and video playback. Since the Volt has TWO(2) interactive displays there will be numerous ways to re-configure the Volt to meet user preferences. The last thing you want in a futuristic car like this is STATIC interfaces and software. Everything must be dynamic and easily modifiable. No owner wants to have to bring the car into a dealer shop just to get a firmware upgrade, that would be mindless and a total waste of the owner’s valuable time. ALL upgrades to Volt should be done at the user’s convenience (i.e. home, workplace, etc) via internet and not like today where you drop off your car in a dealer’s bay and pick it up after work. GM should talk more to Apple engineers, they know how to get this done.

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JEC Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

USB is a the correct choice for nearly all things related to communications for the customer.

As someone mentioned in an earlier post, the Volt will have a CAN-bus, which is the standard communications bus used on automobiles. Today you can buy the diagnostic CAN controller, but they are expensive and you typically use them very little. You can go auto parts stores and they will even readout your diagnostic info for free, but who wants to?)

What I would want is for the USB to give me EVERYTHING! I want audio, video, software updates on ALL functions (motor control algorithms, battery SOC, diagnostics, the whole enchilada). I hope GM provides a windows app. that will interface to the Volt and provide all the goodies I want. Being able to take my laptop out to my car, plug in, perform full diagnostics or other stuff, would be more than SWEET! I fear that this may not happen since this would make it to easy to repair your own car, and the GM repair guys would be left to eat doughnuts

Concerning security. I feel more secure being in control of this than handing my car off to some stranger at the auto repair place. The technology to encrypt/secure is in place. For the few hackers that break the encrypt, so be it. I really do not think this will be as big an issue as a computer on the internet, since you won’t be be directly connected. I would be willing to sign whatever waiver GM wants for this capability. (Maybe I will even tweak the controller alogrithm to let the ICE recharge the battery to 80% )

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Mark Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

I hope that the iPod connection is a *real* iPod cable that allows one to control the iPod from the stereo unit. I really don’t want the iPod connection to be the cheap aux-input.

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Clark Rockefeller Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 12:33 pm

Since most owners will be “plugging in” their volt on a regular basis, it seems to me that would be the perfect time to automatically upgrade any internal software the Volt needs, whether its iPod menu enhancement, navigational map updates, new vehicle optimization algorithms or whatever else is necessary. This would be totally transparent to the owner and happen via plug-in cable which would have an additional embedded “internet access” wire. It’s doable, but will GM do it ? who knows.

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Tony Romo Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

Most iPods today can play video as well as music. I assume the Volt will leverage its 2 giant LCD displays to enhance the iPod viewing experience.

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JEC Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

After reading more posts, including my own, I think we are really asking for a lot in such a short time.

Let’s get the battery and the motor and control working as advertised. I am willing (not voluntarily, since I know I will not be able to afford that $40+k price tag).

Version 2.0 is when I want all the toys, and for cheap!

I would be willing sell my place in line for the Volt 1.0, for a “small fee”! Any takers?

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John Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 12:51 pm

#61 Mark

Agree. I am hoping for an actual iPod docking station and maybe an optional Macbook docking station as well. On many of today’s cars you can already hook up your PC notebook DIRECTLY to the diagnostic port under the dash and get real-time statistics and can record them on your computer. There is absolutely no reason why a Macbook could not do the same or perhaps even more if GM would create an open API for the Volt controls. This would exponentially increase Volt enhancements by third-parties and would create a whole new market for Volt ownership.

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Dave G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 12:54 pm

#60 JEC Says: “What I would want is for the USB to give me EVERYTHING! I want audio, video, software updates on ALL functions (motor control algorithms, battery SOC, …”
————————————————————————————–
OK, let’s say they give you this. Let’s say you’re really smart, so you tweak the motor control algorithm and it actually works better. Obviously, you would want to tell someone else what you did. Obviously, they’ll want to do it as well, but they’re not so smart, so they end up with a bug that causes a fatal crash. In other words, that person dies.

Now what happens? Well, the lawyers will go after whoever has the deepest pockets. That would be GM.

Bottom line: GM will NEVER allow this…

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802.11n Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 12:59 pm

I really need a WiFi interface on the Volt. I plan to use this vehicle as a wardriving machine. For anyone that doesn’t know what that means google it.

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JEC Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:06 pm

66 DaveG

I know this is never going to happen (being able to write to the NVM that contains the control functions). But hey, a person needs to dream.

I would like, as a minimum full diagnostic readback capability. Software updates by GM are inevitable, they will likely require you to visit a friendly dealership, than gouge you nicely, as you sit in the waiting room eating stale doughnuts and cold coffee.

Can GM PLEASE provide a simple Win app, that will allow me to readback a full diagnostic (I would be willing to pay, and I know you would be willing to take my money).

BUT, if somehow a person recodes the control alogrithms and kills themselves, they could be up for a Darwin award! (just kidding…. )

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Java Volt Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

#66 Dave G

I think you underestimate the power of software engineering. Even the iPhone has safeguards built-in to prevent rogue applications from disabling its main functions. The public software interface to the Volt would live in a sandbox similar to the way the Java Virtual Machine (JVM) can be totally isolated from the rest of a computer. GM could make a separate Virtual Machine available for 3rd party enhancements without compromising the integrity of the rest of the system. This is extremely simple and is done in many appliances today. A typical JVM on a chip costs less than a dollar today.

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avatar Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:11 pm

Gee, to think this item is the dealbreaker for so many! Now the x, y, z, and pod generations just buy a Volt for the I-Pod hookup. WOW, save gas and get ur tunes too. Smokinnnnnnnnn

Soon, everything will be designed around the I-Pod- oops, those days are here.

Honey could you iron my ipod shirt? Don’t forget my I-pod lunchpail- oh, we don’t use these anymore because no one goes to a factory except the Chinese.

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Dave G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

#68 JEC Says: “I would like, as a minimum full diagnostic readback capability. ”
————————————————————————————–
Yes, I agree. There’s no reason I can think of where GM allowing you to read internal diagnostic info via USB would do any harm. In addition, user software updates could be allowed for non-critical systems like GPS and audio.

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harrier1970 Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:19 pm

Nasaman,

I love most of your posts as they are technically sound and have a very well thought out reasoning behind them.

I understand your desire for the “movable front grill louver” but if it look anything like the design disaster of the cadillac then I have to say ‘NO WAY’. That has to be one of the ugliest front designs I have seen.

If they can make it better looking, I am all for it. If it looks like this, then forget it.

Sorry brother

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nasaman Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:20 pm

42 Evan…… You said, “…..…IOW you plan a trip on your home PC then upload that trip plan to the NAV via the USB.”

I’m the VERY pleased owner of a 2008 Saturn Vue (one that I’ll be trading for a 2010/11 plug-in Vue to tow my boat & haul all my stuff, as well as a 2010/11 Volt to park beside it.) This Vue has the lastest version of OnStar’s Nav system (which comes at NO added cost with the car) and allows me to plan a trip on Map Quest like always, then click just once to send it to my Vue.

Work’s perfectly! In fact, of the 3 GPS systems I own, this newest one from OnStar in my Vue is BY FAR the best & safest to use (no eyes or hands needed to originate routes or to make routing changes –just speak instructions & it corrects your route painlessly & safely)! Amazing!

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OSS Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:26 pm

Dave G #66

You can already buy performance chips that replace OEM chip in most cars today. GM engineers are not the only experts on automotive electronics. I have used some of those mod chips in my vehicle and they allow you to control many engine controls WHILE YOU ARE DRIVING ! So, its already being done regardless of whether “GM will NEVER allow this…” . I believe the Volt will be SOLD not leased, so the owner has the right to modify their Volt as they see fit.

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canehdian Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:32 pm

Sounds good to me.

As mentioned I would like to access diagnostics logs or whatnot from the USB port(s) if possible.
Also, throw in an SDHC slot PLEASE.
Be the car of the future.. no one uses CD’s. Leave out a CD slot and put in an SD slot. If people have CD’s, they can rip them to MP3’s and put thousands onto one card the size of a postage stamp.

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fred Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:33 pm

I don’t need it, but if it’s going to come as a standard item as long as I can have my optional squeeze bulb horn and roll up windows I’ll be ok with it.

#21 I’m waiting to buy a volt also but my 12 year old toyota has never had a problem so why do you need a dignostic program built in unless it’s engineered to fail at certain parameters? I would rather have a intelligently engineered vehicle to not fail like I have allready and that’s what GM has to build to get me back. P.S. my air cond is still working great.

#24 YES,YES,YES.

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Mo Betta Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:37 pm

If you think GM engineers are the only ones who can program the Volt to maximize battery usage you are sadly mistaken. I am sure the Volt will be factory programmed to obtain efficiency in ALL weather climates and therefore use mid-range algorithms. However, for any one driver located in a set environment, the Volt program could almost certainly be further optimized just for his/her environment. It would be naive for one to think that GM could fully optimize the Volt software for ALL possible conditions.

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nasaman Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:42 pm

72 harrier 1970….. You said, “….I understand your desire for the “movable front grill louver” but if it looks anything like the design disaster of the cadillac then I have to say ‘NO WAY’. That has to be one of the ugliest front designs I have seen. If they can make it better looking, I am all for it. If it looks like this, then forget it.”

GREAT COMMENT! What’s ugly about the Caddy Provoq’s grill is very similar to what’s ugly about the Volt’s grill as now designed —a “plain-Jane” flat-aluminum(?) louver is pressed flat against the inside surface of both grills*. What GM should do is to emboss or otherwise texture these louvers to give the grills added “depth” & “design character”.

*HOWEVER, note that both the Provoq’s & Volt’s inside-mounted grill louvers will look normal when stopped since they’ll be open like any usual car’s grill.

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On Board Diagnostics Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

Hopefully the OBD system (which is required by federal law in all vehicles) will be beyond version 2 that has been in cars since summer of 1995. GM should display all OBD info in real-time on the dash displays. This will allow better feedback for driver. I personally see no reason why the driver should not be allowed to tweak all engine-related components. For example, I would want the ability to adjust the amount of regenerative breaking while I am driving. In stop-n-go traffic I would want relaxed regen while on mountain roads I would want firm regen. IMO, the more control you give to the driver the better. Today’s handheld computers are infinitely more powerful than any microprocessor in your car, so it makes sense to combine the synergies of both and give the owner complete control over his product.

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Grant Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 1:58 pm

I don’t have an Ipod, or want one (I just use my PDA). I certainly don’t want it to be part of the car. The USB makes sense, just plug a five buck 512 stick in and play the music from that, but I see no reason to bother with paying for a slot I’ll never use.

On the other hand, if Apple offers some support to GM in order to have this installed, and it lowers the cost of the car to do it, fine with me. I’ll use the little slot for my hand sanitizer bottle or something.

I will NEVER upgrade car software ANYWHERE except in a service center, as to do otherwise is to risk your warranty suddenly being negated for suspicion of tampering.

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Geek Squad Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 2:10 pm

I am a proud member of the Geek Squad and am currently docked at your local Best Buy store. However, I would be happy to come out to your Volt location and properly tune the Volt with our GS enhancement package. After upgrading your Volt you will be amazed at the new performance and range enhancements as well as new menu options to interface with our latest HDTV entertainment centers. There is nothing more enjoyable than tailgating at your favorite sporting event in a GS modified Volt, you will be the life of the party.
Note: Volt Upgrade package GS11 will only be available for first generation Volts thru November 2011. Hurry to your Geek Squad outlet to get your preferred discount today. I will see you there. Geek Out.

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Grant Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

NOW you’re scaring me…

Please don’t misunderstand me, I have no issue with software upgrades, I just don’t want to have to try them outside a service center, as the troubles I have with my computers during upgrades (i use four different OS’s and NONE of them are immune!) lead me to want a backup plan.

I would like, on the physical side, an outlet that lets me run the car as a generator. With such a huge battery, there must be a way to get power OUT as well as in.

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iPhone 3G User Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 2:24 pm

I use my iPod for Navigation and it would be ideal for use in the Volt. I have yet to see ANY in-car navigation system that can touch the capabilities of Google Maps + iPhone + 3G. This combo completely destroys those high-dollar car nav systems, really. What I would also like to see is GM have a Google Android interface, that could be powerful. A Volt Android application could be another game changer.

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Control Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 2:38 pm

I look at the iPod as being a giant key fob for the Volt. It could control a lot more than just vehicle access and theft-deterrent. When you turn the key on the Volt nothing happens it is just ON. So why do I even need a key fob. Just let me use my iPod. I don’t need to carry around another gadget just for GM. My iPod should be sufficient for ALL my needs. I already get my music, videos, phone and internet why not transportation as well. I even use my iPod to log in remotely to my Home Computer and control its desktop. I should be able to log into the Volt and display its status remotely from my iPod, this is a no-brainer. Get busy GM.

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Lurtz Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 2:41 pm

#21 LyleL, #28 Rashiid, #71 DaveG: (point 4) On-board diagnostics (or “OBD 2″ – standardized plug and data) have been required in all US cars since 1996. A lot of cars tap into the same data to give you trip fuel economy, average speed, distance to empty, etc. You can buy after market OBD gauges. They will tell you the status of any sensor. And depending on how much you want to spend, some gauges will also let you alter things.

#48 Statik (interior of next-model Prius)
My wife will say the same thing she’s said about every car: Doesn’t anyone at these car companies carry a purse? Where do you put your purse? At least the current gen Prius has a space for it between the seats and the console. The new one completely removed that useful space.

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The Grid Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 2:47 pm

#82 Grant

Don’t even think about removing energy from your Volt for whatever reason. GM has other plans. When you plug in your Volt the local Utility company will be in firm control. In many cases they will harness your battery for the greater good of the public. Excess capacity will be absorbed by THE GRID. That’s right. Any attempt by you to circumvent this feature by selfishly using your Volt energy for personal gain would be foolish.

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Tagamet Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 2:55 pm

Although I’d love the idea of being able to download info from the car re mileage/performance, I’m NOT in favor of anything that adds yet another level of complexity which may serve to delay a Nov, 2010 release. Leave the fancy-dancy stuff like V2G or MORE computer complexity for Volt V2 (or 3 or 4).
KISS COUNTS!

Let’s just get the (darn) Volt’s wheels on the road!

Be well,
Tag

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Talks Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

Hope VOLT will have steeering mounted A/C , heater, volume , mute
controls etc apart from the LCD.

Suppose a co passenger is controlling the LCD for some stuff and at the same time, its not possible to control A/C as that touch screen will not be present at that time.

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Statik Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

EDIT: If you seen this post on podcasting , please disregard posting on it…I think perhaps it is really, really new and Lyle might be posting on it.

/sorry Lyle

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KISS Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 3:14 pm

#87 Tagamet

You know that little hole in version 1 of the Volt, just below the fake grill. That is for your HAND CRANK. (just kidding)

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Tagamet Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 3:19 pm

KISS@90
“You know that little hole in version 1 of the Volt, just below the fake grill. That is for your HAND CRANK. (just kidding)”

Either that or to crank down the windows!
Be well,
Tag

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MDDave Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 3:25 pm

I really don’t get the fascination with the iPod or any of Apple’s products. I had an iRiver MP3 player years before the iPod became popular and it essentially did the same thing that the early iPod did. And I have a Windows Mobile phone that I bought two years before the IPhone came out and it pretty much does what the IPhone does, and it still does quite a few things better than the iPhone. About the only things the Windows Mobile phone and the iRiver MP3 player lack that the Apple products have are the slick interfaces, massive marketing campaigns, and a dedicated fan base. So, why people act like the iPod and iPhone are the greatest, most innovative gadgets ever really escapes me.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate Apple — I’ve actually been meaning to pick up a new iPod for some time. But I do like choice, and when I hear that the Volt is going to have “IPod connectivity” that annoys me. I hope that “iPod connectivity” is just a generic term for MP3 player or thumb drive connectivity.

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Co Pilot Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 3:29 pm

#88 Talks

The Volt will have portable LCD handhelds for each passenger. So they will see their own customized display to control interior creature comforts. These devices will communicate with the main console in the Volt dash via UWB wireless links. So the 4 bucket seats in the Volt really function as fully independent customizable cockpits. Of course they will have memory function that allows them to resume proper settings depending on current seat occupant. The Volt electronics is a fully multi-threaded preemptive multi-tasking and mult-user system. Think of it as a PS3 on steriods. At least this is my vision of the mothership GM likes to call the Chevy VOLT.

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Tagamet Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 3:33 pm

“The Volt will have portable LCD handhelds for each passenger. So they will see their own customized display to control interior creature comforts. These devices will communicate with the main console in the Volt dash via UWB wireless links. So the 4 bucket seats in the Volt really function as fully independent customizable cockpits. Of course they will have memory function that allows them to resume proper settings depending on current seat occupant. The Volt electronics is a fully multi-threaded preemptive multi-tasking and mult-user system. Think of it as a PS3 on steriods. At least this is my vision of the mothership GM likes to call the Chevy VOLT.”

AARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!
/sound of single gunshot

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DonC Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 3:34 pm

#48 Statik

Everything I’ve read says the Prius will be a 2010 model introduced in 2009. So the design should be ahead of the Volt’s — 18 months ahead. If it wasn’t Toyota would be way behind:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=10&article_id=6800

#19 Bruce #37 Dave G

The 40 mile range is all about the battery pack. GM is only using a 50% DOD. If it used 100% like the RAV-4 it would be getting a 90 mile range. The upside of the lower depth of discharge is that the pack will last much longer even if customers abuse it. Toyota was shooting for a battery pack that lasted 100,000 miles; GM will be on the hook for 150,000 miles.

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George K Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 3:37 pm

#21 LyleL, #28 Rashiid Amul

I also agree with LyleL’s ramblings. Perhaps would like to see something like miles per watt or kWh, or kWh per hour ( instantaneous and over a range).

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John Deer Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 3:38 pm

#90 KISS

My uncle’s tractor has that and its not that old, I think it was made in the seventies. It still runs but uses a lot of oil

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mikeinatl. Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 3:43 pm

A bit off the thread but I just did some basic math.

If you fill up your nine gallon tank for a trip on a full battery charge, you can go about 48 miles on (new) batteries and 450 miles on gas or 498 miles on 9 gallons. That would be 55 miles per gallon unless your doing some sort of hyper-mile thing. Pretty impressive if the car looks anything like the concept car and has high-tech toys like we have been discussing on this thread.

Also, I thought it was interesting that GM has a solution to the “stale gas” issue. I guess all you can do with that is to burn some small amount of gas periodically. This of course for those people who wont go more than 48 miles per day. (new car). Would this mean that even those Volt owners will need to fill up from time to time?

Does anybody know the lifespan of a typical tank of gas? Wonder how much they will need to burn and how often.

Also, yesterday I ran across the Chrysler MYGIG system online. It looks like it provides much of what I had hoped to see in the Volt in terms of entertainment/GPS/phone, etc. It has a very large storage capacity.

And lastly, I wonder how GM marketing defines the typical Volt customer. Volt just can’t be all things to all people. For Version 1.0, my guess is they are targeting early-adopter techie types who have $40 K as opposed to those who are strict environmentalists.

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LyleL Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 3:51 pm

28 Amul said:

“Yes to bullets 4 and 5. What happened to bullet 3? “

Sorry, now you know why I’m not a nuclear physicist. It would be ,disaster for all of us.

85 Lurtz said:

“#21 LyleL, #28 Rashiid, #71 DaveG: (point 4) On-board diagnostics (or “OBD 2″ – standardized plug and data) have been required in all US cars since 1996. A lot of cars tap into the same data to give you trip fuel economy, average speed, distance to empty, etc. You can buy after market OBD gauges. They will tell you the status of any sensor. And depending on how much you want to spend, some gauges will also let you alter things.”

Thanks for the info, you note the year was 1996, there’s no need for Toronado owners to buy anything. My current 1988 toronado displays diagnostics, sensor reports etc. on the cars in dash information alpha-numeric display. 1988! It also allows, while parked to shut off injectors one by one to determine which one is bad. The shop manual (which you can buy) used about a quarter of the book just explaining how to use the diags. Every Volt owner should by the shop manual in order to have a clue at how the car works. This is my point… the diags are accessible to the driver but, I want them to display in an easy to use menu on the Volt. It’s a bit difficult to move from controlling the automatic climate control system and then switch back to monitoring the spark advance. You’re allowed to do one or the other not both. The GM 1988 Toronado also displays miles remaining on the tank of gas at current usage, average mpg, instantaneous mpg, etc… that’s why I own the car… it’s advanced (also read intelligent) for its day. 90% of the dash buttons are momentary contact. Why? Because the car was designed to have an optional touch sensitive CRT (cathode ray tube) that would control the climate control, radio, etc. This car doesn’t have the CRT but it was designed for the body computer to receive momentary signals so that’s why the dash has momentary contact buttons and a dedicated body computer. I expect nothing less for 2010 Volt, I expect more. Can GM do electronics and software? You bet. Let’s not settle for less. This isn’t rocket science, it’s computer science. The Volt may have 20 cpu’s/processing modules, so someone in GM feels they can handle the software to tie all system communication together. There were multiple cpu’s in the EV1. 2 in the Toronado. GM can do it, and do it well.

Sorry for long post, we need to know what was accomplished in the past to have proper expectations for the future.

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Mordeth13 Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 4:03 pm

#92 MDDave

A lot of cars today have so-called iPod interface that are just dumb audio-in jacks, like a pre-amp input. However, there are more and more models that have a proprietary iPod connector (I used one that was located inside a glove compartment, why they put it there i don’t know). Anyway the iPod connector gives the car’s stereo/navigation unit total control of the iPod. This is much better than a simple 3.5mm jack. I hope GM opts for the better connector. I know the Cadillac CTS already comes with USB port in the center floor console, when you install your MP3 filled flash drive, all your songs are automatically available on the dash’s navigation system, really cool. Of course this same car has built-in hard drive so I think the thumb drive is really just for transferring songs to the HDD.

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Alexander Hilton Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 4:11 pm

99 LyeL

The shop manual for the Volt will likely be a tomb. I believe it will come with wheels or at least a backpack.
If they make it readable to the masses (i.e. dumbed down to 3rd grade english) it could be multi-volume encyclopedia like. If they include lots of pictures (equals a thousand words) then get ready to rent a uhaul to get that sucker home. I don’t even want to talk about the Chinglish version.

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canehdian Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

99, LyleL
OBD-II (version 2) was 1996. Some cars had OBD-I beforehand, probably like your example, here.

In general, I think it would be an interesting feature to have the computer have flash memory to record logs of data and such.
E.g. average trip length, total distance (this one’s a given, lol)
total amount of fuel used, etc.
That way you can get a “statistics” screen or something which can show you your average MPG when using the range extender, Wh/mile or something, and Total distance travelled and total fuel used.. total MPG!
If you’re all electric with a drop of gas, this number would be 99999999.
This would be an interesting feature for the life of the car, You can say that with electricity and gas combined, your car gets effectively 9000 MPG (or whatever the number is)

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88Hawaii Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 4:27 pm

Why not have the shop manual automatically available on the second LCD display. It could provide troubleshooting info based on any ODB error codes. My current handheld ODBII device not only displays the stored error codes, but gives detailed descriptions and a list of possible solutions to fix the problem. This device costs less than $100 and I would think something similar could be programmed into the Volt display for a fraction of that. I hope this and the iPod connectivity will be “standard” equipment and not one of those thousand dollar markup options.

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OnStar Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 4:46 pm

If GM can send codes via satellite to your specific vehicle to unlock doors, then they should be able to send a “series” of codes to reprogram the Volt on the fly. No doubt about it. If you have ever update the BIOS in your PC you know it is a very simple process. Since it would be full automated (no user intervention) via satcom then it is even simpler. I would not expect any problem like you have with Microsoft BSOD (Blue Screen Of Death) or RROD (Red Ring Of Death) type crashes. If an error is detected then the internal software would revert back to the last known good update. Taking a car into a service bay for a firmware update is unacceptable, this is 2008 man, everything about the Volt is SOFTWARE driven, you cannot think like a grease monkey to work on this vehicle.

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Smyrna Cowboy Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

I am sitting here in my car listening to Leo Laporte on XM, chugging down some brew and viewing this blog at 80 mph. I like all this wonderful technology going into the new Volt. It don’t get much better than this. The Volt may be made by you northern yankees but there are some southern rebels down here in Nissan country that will be driving a Volt soon. I am planning on trading up from my Burgman 650 scooter to a Volt in 2011. This car better be real or I will be very disappointed in GM. Nice to know those rear seats fold down, that should allow me to get a few more kegs in the back.

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ThomC Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 5:09 pm

#78 nasaman
>> emboss or otherwise texture these louvers to give the grills added “depth” & “design character”.

Here’s an idea: Replace the entire area above the ‘real’ air intake with a big LCD display and program a …

(wait for it)

VIRTUAL GRILL!!!

Just think of it…

* Chevy grills
* Cadillac grills
* Toothy ‘53 Buick grills
* Toothy Frieghtliner grills

Limited only by your imagination and PhotoShop!

#82 Grant
>> NOW you’re scaring me…

Amen, brother

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ThomC Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 5:27 pm

# 104 OnStar

>> Taking a car into a service bay for a firmware update is unacceptable… everything about the Volt is SOFTWARE driven, you cannot think like a grease monkey to work on this vehicle.

NoNoNO!

Ain’t no way. I’m a software developer. I only earn my bread and butter with computers, therefore I can afford to loose access to my computer if the hard drive crashes. But we’re talking about my WHEELS here.

If GM can dynamically download BIOS instructions to my car on the fly, so can anyone else who can hack (or in the case of the government… bludgeon) their way into the satnet.

I want a corporeal entity to feed new instruction sets into my car, if for no other reason than I can wring his bloody neck if he screws it up.

In all seriousness (not that wringing a tech’s neck isn’t serious), critical systems on the Volt will be computer controlled (e.g. regenerative brakes and steering) and I do not want fundamental characteristics of those systems changing willynilly. Feel and feedback of those systems is critically important to the driver and any changes should involve a major investment of time and effort if only to force the driver of the significance.

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Tall Pete Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 6:25 pm

Let’s not get too excited here. Possibilities are endless but price will increase accordingly.

I want my Volt to be as inexpensive as possible. KISS is the word. Let’s hope they do not forget this at GM. And enough about tweaking the software at home, hoping to do better than engineers. Only a few of us would really know how to do it safely without risking any problem.

I do not want computer related problems (hack, bugs, endless updates) with my car. I want my car to be reliable and bring me from point A to point B with the smallest amount of gas. That’s all.

Pete

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Joe Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 6:49 pm

If GM engineers can design the more complex end of the Volt, I’m sure they know what is best with the grill. The fake grill could be removed but how would the car look? I, for one, also hate fake things, but in this case I find it acceptable.If the Volt needs more air flow, they would give it more air flow. Only the people working on the project really knows what is best.

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Joe Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:07 pm

Dave G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:10 am

Dave@8

#5 Joe Says: “The USB could be used to upgrade the software.”
————————————————————————————–
This would be a reliability disaster. If GM allows users to upgrade software, then 3rd party hack software will be developed with all sorts of bugs, or people will use 2012 software for 2011 cars. GM won’t allow this kind of nightmare to happen.

Maybe if there is a separate info-tainment system that’s completely non-critical, then software upgrades may make sense, but I’m sure even this would cause a ton of headaches in the service department.

Cars are very different than PCs and MP3 players…

*********************************************************

Dave

It could be made in which only the dealer’s software could initialized the the display or whatever and it just so happens that I know what I’m talking about.

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Tagamet Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:11 pm

Only a couple more years of speculation…. Not much sense in getting too concerned about things. None of us is smarter than all of them (I hope).
Be well,
Tag

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JEC Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:28 pm

111 Tag

Isn’t that what this site is all about? If we knew exactly what we were getting, then this site would serve no purpose.

As an engineer, I deal with a lot of feedback on software and hardware interfaces, from persons an industrial control environment. I have learned over the years that you need to listen to both the very vociferous and subtle aspects of feedback. Sometimes some of the most obvious mistakes can be discovered by the least likely persons who unveil it.

The engineer tries his/her best to make the best decisions, based on the facts and design criteria, but sometimes they just do not see the subtle changes that can greatly improve the usability and quality of a product. That’s where this type of feedback is valuable.

I would love to have the type of feedback on a design, that GM is getting on the Volt. I would consider this free labor, and an opportunity to catch issues before putting the design in release phase.

My guess is that maybe 1-5% of the comments made on this site actually make a designer think. (I exclude Statiks comments, since I think he impacts more of the financial side, which is just, or more important than the design side). But that sure beats designing in the dark. Voice of customer (VOC) is becoming an integrated part of all engineering design, and I think GM is even further ahead with this site (VOI – new acronym Voice of the Internet, I hate acronyms, except if I invent them of course. : ) )

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BrotherBlonde Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 7:56 pm

GM should support the idea of “skins” on all future displays used to replace the old instrument clusters. This would allow a user installed skin to drastically alter the look and feel while still providing all the necessary information. This technique has worked successfully with MP3 players, cell phones, web browsers and other software. Most of this software development will have to be outsourced because almost all GM’s current computing software and maintainence was outsourced years ago. GM has very little in-house SW development expertise and this could ver well be their Achilles Heel.

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Tagamet Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:02 pm

JEC@112
Which part of my post says that speculation is improper? I’m just pointing out that the comments ARE speculation, and therefore nothing to get upset about. I found myself getting annoyed with all the rocket science bells and whistles tacked onto an infant vehicle (not a reference to nasaman). I think GM needs an absolutely bulletproof plain vanilla vehicle that out performs their promised specs. If they don’t do that, they won’t be around to produce anything, let alone V 2.0.
JMO (but I’m right).
Tag

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Joy Stick Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:13 pm

Will the Volt be Drive By Wire ? This is a feature in my Honda Fit that needs to be in the Volt. Also those headlights need to auto adjust when in turns, once you see this in action you will never go back to ordinary headlamps. Will the iPod interface require a 2-year contract with AT&T ? I hope not as I am a longtime Verizon customer. I need some answers before I would consider a Volt as a worthy addition to my garage.

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Tagamet Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:17 pm

Joy Stick

No.
I don’t know, but maybe.
and No.
Check back in a couple years.
HTH,
Tag

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Moon Unit Zappa Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:27 pm

Adding iPod connectivity is one of the best decisions made so far from the Design Engineers of the Volt. You guys are awesome.

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Tagamet Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:30 pm

What was the name of the site from which we chose our avatars?
TIA,
Tag

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ThombDbhomb Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:43 pm

Tagamet
Clicking on an avatar takes you to that site

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Mitch Ubishi Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:43 pm

As fast as the iPod lineup is changing (new models out by this christmas) USB may not be the best connectivity option in 2 YEARS. Apple technology is sure to change drastically by then, even mighty GM will not be able to keep up. I hope GM is talking to the Apple engineers to make this seamless and up to date at product launch time.

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Dave G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:46 pm

#107 ThomC Says: “Here’s an idea: Replace the entire area above the ‘real’ air intake with a big LCD display and program a …

(wait for it)

VIRTUAL GRILL!!!”
————————————————————————————–
Too compilcated. How about just a horizontal row of red LEDs that sweep back and forth, like this:
http://knightrideronline.com/

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Tagamet Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:49 pm

ThombDbhomb@120
THANKS!
Tag

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Howie Diddot Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:50 pm

This is very good news. I guess GM really is preparing the Volt as a car for the masses. It would also be nice to have a Safari web UI on their new display technology since Apple users are very familiar with it.

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Crystal Chanda Leir Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:55 pm

iPod mania is alive and well. What about my Zune ? Bill Gates and Jerry Seinfeld are not going to be happy about this.

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RB Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 8:55 pm

If the Volt is a kind of accessory to an iPod, it does not seem nearly as interesting as a car.

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Dave G Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:00 pm

#99 mikeinatl. Says: “Also, I thought it was interesting that GM has a solution to the “stale gas” issue. I guess all you can do with that is to burn some small amount of gas periodically.
…
Does anybody know the lifespan of a typical tank of gas? Wonder how much they will need to burn and how often. ”
————————————————————————————–
There are really 2 issues here:
1) How long with the gas in the tank last before going stale?
2) How long will the gas engine last without being run?

For #1, it’s about 6 months normally, but over a year with gas additives.

For #2, I don’t know. For my part, I would feel a lot more comfortable if the Volt made sure the engine runs every couple of months.

So I think the Volt should make sure the engine runs periodically.

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Tagamet Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:03 pm

RB@125
I agree. There will be enough confusion about how the Volt works (for the man on the street).
Of course, when the proto’s are on the roads, there will be GREAT opportunities for “teachable moments”.
Be well,
Tag

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Wayne Kerr Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:05 pm

I am having nightmares about the Volt Grill. It reminds me of a toy instead of a serious driving machine. Maybe the aftermarket parts suppliers will offer replacements like billet grills used in pickups.

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R. Swipe Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:24 pm

I am not planning on ever using the ICE in the Volt. My gas tank will surely be dry, but what about that piston powerplant. I would think it would eventually freeze up those pistons if i only use battery power. I am thinking about retrofitting a second battery in place of the beast under the hood. This would give me all the extended range i need.

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Michael Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:34 pm

Dave G @122

Some version of the “knightrider” lights would really be cool. Maybe something with lightning bolts? Or changing colors? You could change it from the touch screen or maybe voice activated. After all, my name is Michael!

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Barry Obama Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 9:40 pm

The side windows on the Volt look so small I think power windows will not even be necessary. This could be a good thing. Toyota just announced a recall of half a million corolla/matrix cars with defective power windows that can shatter the glass.

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Tagamet Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:04 pm

Let’s get a basic Volt’s wheels on the road!
Tag

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P C Nut Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:04 pm

GM would be wise to use LED backlit TFT display technology. My netbooks (Acer Aspire One and MSI Wind) have these type of displays and they are very bright and low power consumption. Apple touch screen finger gestures also should be used if possible to rapidly adjust display resolution. Intel induction charging technology should be incorporated in the dashboard allowing instant charging of all compatible gadgets while you drive with NO WIRES. These are but a few sorely needed features in addition to the iPod port that will make the iVolt to rise above its competitors.

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John Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:11 pm

nasaman,
Even if the grilles are “actuated”, they will still look like that most of the time. So why does it matter?
Actually, you are not paying attention very well. Bob specifically said in the video that at least some air is taken in through the bottom edges of the upper grilles. Go look at the video again.
They look great, and there is nothing cheap about them.
This is painfully pedantic!

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V-Strom Rider Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:15 pm

Having a iPod connection should allow the Apple device to recharge the Volt battery in an emergency. Don’t laugh, my hero Steve Jobs has promised us new extended battery life in future iPods. There should be enough excess capacity to safely get a Volt home should you run out of gas.

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Trinith Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:23 pm

Here in Tejas we have to mount a Front License plate on our four wheelers. I don’t see where to attach my plate to the Volt without blocking the airflow below that fake grill. I wonder if GM has thought about this. They have stated that even slow city driving is affected by areodynamics, so how will a big square ugly plate mounted in front screw up my expected mileage.

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GXT Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:25 pm

37 Dave G wrote,

“GM did some research and found that 78% of the people in the U.S. drive less than 40 miles a day. This is the classic 80/20 marketing rule. The combination of 40 miles AER plus a gas/E85 range extender for occasional longer trips makes the Volt unbeatable for most people. Adding more batteries would just increase the cost and weight for something most people would rarely use.”

Unbeatable? Actually, it makes absolutely no economic sense for anyone and is barely justifiable for the few.

I think it really speaks to how clueless GM was (or perhaps to their initial lack of intention to actually follow through with the Volt for 2010) that they could put out that “78% of people commute less than 40 miles” joke.

Sure, it is true. But in providing the range needed for 78% of the people they have designed a car that makes economic sense to 0% of the market, only a few percent can reasonably afford to purchase it, any GM doesn’t have the capacity to satisfy 0.08% of the US market (10,000 of 14 million).

So yeah, good job on making a car that satisfies the range needs of 78% of the US market.

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Fudmottin Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:31 pm

The front grill of the Volt reminds me of the stove tops that use induction heating, you know those little copper lines running around the top just under the surface. Maybe if they put a hinge on that grill we can use it for cooking during outdoor camping and picnics.

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nasaman Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:31 pm

134 John….. You say, “Even if the grilles are “actuated”, they will still look like that most of the time.”

IT’S JUST THE OTHER WAY AROUND…..
If the louvers located behind the grills are actuated (i.e., at highway speeds), they’ll be closed & look like the latest photo; if they’re NOT actuated (i.e., at low speeds or parked), they’ll be OPEN & the grills will look exactly like a normal car’s grills —this is when they’ll be most readily visible.

(Re-read the earlier thread’s posts by myself & by GM’s designer on this subject for details.)

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Tagamet Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:32 pm

GXT@137 said, in part:
…I think it really speaks to how clueless GM was (or perhaps to their initial lack of intention to actually follow through with the Volt for 2010) that they could put out that “78% of people commute less than 40 miles” joke.
Sure, it is true. But in providing the range needed for 78% of the people they have designed a car that makes economic sense to 0% of the market, only a few percent can reasonably afford to purchase it, any GM doesn’t have the capacity to satisfy 0.08% of the US market (10,000 of 14 million)….

We’ll put you down as a “No” then.
Be well,
Tag
PS Where’d you find out the actual price?

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Vladimir Putin Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:43 pm

iPod enabled Volt. Woo Hoo. I have been waiting for this announcement. It’s about time. I know for sure that all my future vehicles must have iPod connectivity. No iPod hookup is definitely a deal breaker for me. I will now be giving serious consideration to GM products in the future. Can’t wait to test drive a Volt and check out how my iPod works with it. Way to go GM.

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Paul-R Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:44 pm

As an iPod users for several years now, here’s my two cents…

I doubt GM will limit things to just the iPod, even though iPod dominates the market by a wide margin. To those not familiar with these devices, the word “iPod” has come to mean MP3 player. Just as “Kleenex” means tissue and “PC” means Windows PC.

As for “proprietary iPods”, the iPod is no more proprietary than any other audio/video/photo/game player. Most of the iPod content can come from a variety of sources other than Apple. And iPod works equally well with Windows and Macintosh, unlike many competitors that only work with Windows.

I like the idea of being able to put some audio/video files on a USB thumb-drive and access that inside the Volt, but that’s not a substitute for integration with an external audio/video/game device like the iPod.

I think the ideal setup would be a couple USB ports (one hidden, one on the dash) for interfacing with storage devices containing audio/video files. Also audio/video input jacks (near a cigarette/charge port) that can connect to any music player. This will allow audio/video to be played through the Volt speakers/screens. Finally, if you really want to splurge, then also offer something voice-controlled like Ford has done with their Sync system.

For a perfect example of what NOT to do, check out Mazda’s $250 iPod integration kit. I made the mistake of buying this useless upgrade before I returned it. In a nutshell … it disables the iPod display (so no games, photos, or video can play) and the iPod’s menu interface, yet it doesn’t display any menu/song info on the radio. Good luck finding your music. And it doesn’t even work with newer iPods or the iPhone. I really like my Mazdaspeed3, but their integration kit is far worse than the standard audio/charge ports that they include for free. Oh yeah, their iPod integration kit also disables the standard audio input jack. Totally moronic.

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Michael Cominsky Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:50 pm

I spend long hours in my car and having the ability to integrate my iPod multmedia collection with the in-car entertainment system would be a welcome feature that I would use frequently.

GM +1

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Larry Longfellow Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 10:56 pm

Why not take it to the next level GM. Apple has much more exciting devices just around the corner that could make riding in the Volt much more enjoyable. An official Apple-GM alliance should be formalized going forward. This is a win-win-win proposition, for Apple, GM and the customer. I just hope AT&T is not part of the deal.

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Dusty Cooper Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:01 pm

Go Volt. Go Apple. Lets get this show on the road players. This is going to be a loooooong and painful waiting experience. But exciting at the same time.

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Grizzly Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:01 pm

Rashiid # 51

“Statik # 48
Thanks for the link. I am not impressed with the interior.”

*** *** ***

Neither am I. Looks like a loss of focus and quite a bit of “whale bone” hard plastic.

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DonC Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:11 pm

#137 GXT – “But in providing the range needed for 78% of the people they have designed a car that makes economic sense to 0% of the market, only a few percent can reasonably afford to purchase it, any GM doesn’t have the capacity to satisfy 0.08% of the US market (10,000 of 14 million)….”

Lutz has explicitly said the Volt is designed to do two things. Change the game as far as mileage is concerned. Get highly educated consumers living on the coasts to consider GM vehicles. Putting out a low end econo-box is not the idea. GM wants a car which bests the Prius in both performance and in the perceived green footprint. As a premium product — and the leading product with the best tech — it will deserve a premium price, and consumers will pay it. That’s just the way it works.

We can also predict what the magic number will be. The empirical research says that people will pay 1/3 more for the premium product. More and you lose market share. Less of a premium and you clean up. The people I know who have bought a Prius have paid $27K to $29K (all moving BTW from Mercedes or BMW cars that cost twice as much). Multiply that by 1.3X and you will get the rough price the Volt will command.

There is no doubt it will sell. The Prius has a six month wait list. The new Honda will have a six month wait list. The Volt will have a longer waiting list. IOW GM will price the Volt so they can sell every Volt it can make. What that price will be depends on the incentives given to electric vehicles.

The bigger payoff will come as GM releases other cars with the E-FLEX system.

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Grizzly Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:14 pm

# 67

”

#60 JEC Says: “What I would want is for the USB to give me EVERYTHING! I want audio, video, software updates on ALL functions (motor control algorithms, battery SOC, …”
————————————————————————————–
OK, let’s say they give you this. Let’s say you’re really smart, so you tweak the motor control algorithm and it actually works better. Obviously, you would want to tell someone else what you did. Obviously, they’ll want to do it as well, but they’re not so smart, so they end up with a bug that causes a fatal crash. In other words, that person dies.

Now what happens? Well, the lawyers will go after whoever has the deepest pockets. That would be GM.

Bottom line: GM will NEVER allow this…”

*** *** ***

The USB interface is many things. I’ll agree that the last thing GM wants is to allow reprogramming for performance and whatever WRT messing with the car. OTOH the USB connector allows access to the system bus just as it does for a computer and especially USB 2.0 which has a speed of 480 mb/s. The reality is that for practical expandability and obsolescence defense this is the key. GM will have to find a way to deal with this much the same way as computer manufacturers have, and GM itself has with all that’s been proliferated WRT ALDL connectors and the HW/SW that is available 3rd party.

You either innovate or die, and I believe GM has chosen the former. The challenges WILL be dealt with.

(Quote)
DonC Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:20 pm

#142 Paul-R

Ditto for the Acura i-Pod product. Unbelievable sound system in the car, horrible integration with the iPod. Even the fleet sales guy told me not to bother.

Personally I like the idea of a flash interface (I’d prefer compact flash or SD) if the on-board will list the tracks. Much better than trying to attach a bulky player. But so long as you could use the player to select what you want I’m more than fine with that as well.

Just something workable, meaning not something which Mazda and Acura have done.

(Quote)
Jim I Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:39 pm

This thread sure brought out the Apple junkies……….

But does it really make sense to link the interface to just a single manufacturer? If you read the information on M/S Sync, that is now in Ford vehicles, they have a long list of MP3 players & cell phones that have already been tested to work with the unit.

I am sure that GM, with all the technology they have designed in their OnStar units, will have an equally robust system. And if it has a Bluetooth interface, my existing phone should work as well.

Twenty six months and six days to go…………..

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Tagamet Says:
August 24th, 2008 at 11:49 pm

Jim I@150
Twenty six months and six days to go…………..

Less than a week until we’re at 26 months! WOOHOO! (G)
Be well,
Tag
PS We need to get OUT more (lol)

(Quote)
Jim in PA Says:
August 25th, 2008 at 6:45 am

…”A good strategy to address the stale gas issue”. In my opinion, this is as simple as the on-board computer “forcing” an ICE startup at regular time intervals, regardless of battery level. Equally obvious is that this will be allowed to kick in only when the car is in Drive, to prevent filling your garage with carbon monoxide. This is a pretty easy issue, it seems.

(Quote)
Jim in PA Says:
August 25th, 2008 at 6:54 am

#111 Joe,

I don’t see why GM would put a firmware/software interface on the dashboard when it really should be under the hood where only those “in the know” will even attempt to connect to it. Furthermore, it seems that any such interface should be via a proprietary connector, not a USB, to further discourage illicit connections. The entire purpose of dashboard USB ports should be for day-to-day driver interface (MP3, etc.). That’s just my opionion…

(Quote)
mikeinatl. Says:
August 25th, 2008 at 9:19 am

#126 Dave and #152 Jim in PA,

(RE: my #99 question above)

So you agree that the Volt must use SOME gasoline even if you never go beyond its daily electric range. So lets assume GM decides Volt must use a tank of gas every 6 month due to your stated 6 month fuel life.

Now let’s use that 6 month number for some fun math…

If you fill the tank, charge the battery and drive until you run out of gas, you go 450 miles on gas and 48 miles on new batteries, or 498 miles on 9 gallons of gas. That’s 55 miles per gallon.

If you go less than 48 miles every day on new batteries, times 6 months, using the 9 gallons of gas in the tank, that equals about 973 miles per gallon!

Beat that, Prius!

Hey, if you never go more than 48 miles a day, those could be real numbers on a really attractive, fast, fun American-made car. (With your iPod.)

Can you see the new GM mileage disclaimer for Volt?
“Your mileage may vary between 55 mpg and 973 mpg.”

(Some hyper-miler just fainted.)

(Quote)
Tim Says:
August 25th, 2008 at 9:52 am

Here is an EXCELLENT video about Digital Rights Management– or what ZDNet Executive Editor David Berlind calls C.R.A.P. (Content Restriction Annulment Protection) — has enabled companies like Apple to lock music downloaded through their service into their own devices. Berlind describes an effort to create a DRM standard so content can flow seamlessly between multiple devices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww65z8HuIJ8&feature=user

When I-Pod is the standard, Steve Jobs sets the (high) prices of content.

(Quote)
TCook Says:
August 25th, 2008 at 10:45 am

Usb ports could be used to connect a device like the blackberry that has tethered data connectivity capability, to connect the car to the internet!!! Web surfing for the passenger!

(Quote)
Voltme Says:
August 25th, 2008 at 11:00 am

Sorry, wrong thread.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2008 at 11:19 am

#4 & #6 Nasaman

As I am still reading this post, I want to thank you for bringing this problem to the fore front. The problem of high temperature and stalled traffic will certainly tax an engine if not properly ventilated and cooled. I don’t personally have a objection to the closed grille from a “looks” standpoint, but I do have concerns as you have raised. Thanks again, Nasaman. I hope GM is taking this very seriously. It would be much better for them to “safe than sorry”.

(Quote)
Jeff M Says:
August 25th, 2008 at 12:19 pm

#36 Jeff M Says: “…it would be easy enough to have any software be digitally signed and checksumed such that only official updates from GM can be installed.”
————————————————————————————–
#44 Dave G Says: “For hackers, this would be like waving a red flag in front of a bull. How long did it take to break DVD copy protection?
————————————————————————————–
Dave, you are comparing Apples to Oranges. I’ve been a software engineer for 20 years, all in the field of computer networking, which is very security conscious sub field of computer software because you absolutely can not trust who/what it is you are talking to.

The DVD system was a very weak 40 bit (but effectively only 16 bits because it was flawed) encryption key, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Scramble_System

If you don’t trust digital signatures then I hope you don’t have automatic updates turned on for anything (including the operating system) and only get updates and/or patches on CD’s directly from the software maker.

If anything, updates to your vehicles firmware would be much more secure than on your home (or laptop) computer because you need physical access to the vehicle (as well as the ignition key fob which is a security system itself).

Now I don’t imagine GM will provide such functionality anyway… they want to keep the dealerships in the loop to keep them happy (remember they make more money on service and parts than on sales of new vehicles), so it’s a moot point.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
August 25th, 2008 at 3:35 pm

#160 Jeff M

GM certainly will keep dealerships in the loop. Software updates probably will only be installed by dealers or down loaded by OnStar and installed by GM personnel remotely. Maybe while your car is charging. Another thing we will have to wait to see later.

(Quote)
Paul-R Says:
August 26th, 2008 at 10:48 am

Tim said…

“Here is an EXCELLENT video about Digital Rights Management– or what ZDNet Executive Editor David Berlind calls C.R.A.P. (Content Restriction Annulment Protection) — has enabled companies like Apple to lock music downloaded through their service into their own devices.”

I would say the word “crap” also describes the content of the youtube video you provided, since most of that video was biased or factually wrong.

Apple/Jobs selected the 99 cent price point since it was simple. What does a song cost? Always 99 cents. Simple. And they did this around year 2000 when they had no pull with the music industry or anyone else. Around that time, everyone had written Apple off as dead, so they had absolutely no way to manipulate the music industry. Apple succeeded where others failed because they were the first company to provide all three key pieces:

1) You need a fun easy way to PLAY the music. (iPod)
2) You need a convenient way to OBTAIN the music. (iTunes Application)
3) Artists need a convenient way to PUBLISH the music. (iTunes Music Store)

These three pieces are like the legs of tripod. Remove one, and it falls over. Once Apple provided all three legs, the iPod market exploded.

To get the music industry to buy into this dream, Apple was forced (by the music industry) to implement DRM. Since then, Apple has removed DRM to the extent the music industry will allow it. Apple hates DRM. If Apple could choose, there would be no DRM. Please read this open letter from Jobs/Apple for more info.

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/

(Quote)
noel park Says:
August 26th, 2008 at 11:43 am

#133 Tagamet:

The bottom line.

To which I would just add, once again – tick tock, tick tock, tick tock. Or how would one describe in words the sound of the sand running out in the hourglass? A bit of a primitive thought in the land of the iPod, I guess, LOL.

Years ago I used to work on large construction projects. We had two way radios in all of our vehicles. We used the police style “10 codes”, probably to make ourselves feel important. “10-4″, “10-7″, “10-20″, etc. You all remember “Adam 12″, right?

Anyway, one day a guy answered a question with “10-88″ I had never heard of it, so next time I saw him I asked him what it meant. He said, “It’s the official ‘10 code’ for ‘You have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a s**t’”. True to the intent of the “10 codes”, I will adopt it here to save typing in future comments.

iPod connectivity? 10-88.

(Quote)
Tagamet Says:
August 26th, 2008 at 12:58 pm

Noel@163
“Anyway, one day a guy answered a question with “10-88″ I had never heard of it, so next time I saw him I asked him what it meant. He said, “It’s the official ‘10 code’ for ‘You have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a s**t’”. True to the intent of the “10 codes”, I will adopt it here to save typing in future comments.”

LOL, sounds like a good plan (especially given the tortoise-like pace of my typing).
Be well,
Tag

(Quote)
noel park Says:
August 26th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

#164 Tagamet:

Yeah, kind of like LOL, LOL.

Very cool cat, BTW.

(Quote)
Paul-R Says:
August 26th, 2008 at 7:19 pm

noel park said…

“iPod connectivity? 10-88.”

That’s fine, but considering that Apple has sold about 140 million iPods in the last four years, there are a lot of folks who disagree with you. The ability to select from millions of songs, podcasts (think free on-demand talk radio), and audio books and have them all with you in your car is a great way to pass-the-time or learn something while driving.

Of course, I’m ignoring the newer iPod features (not recommended while driving) such as making calculations, watching TV shows and movies, playing video games, surfing the web, checking email, viewing digital photos, GPS navigation, etc. Today an iPod can do most of what a laptop normally does.

(Quote)
Tagamet Says:
August 26th, 2008 at 7:32 pm

Paul-R@166

I’ll trust you about what can be done with an IPOD, but do they come with a 19 inch screen (measured diagonally)? Even with my glasses on, I’d never be able to use that postage stamp sized screen.
“FIRST let’s just get the Volt’s wheels on the road!!!”
Be well,
Tag

(Quote)
Paul-R Says:
August 26th, 2008 at 10:22 pm

Tagamet asked…

“I’ll trust you about what can be done with an IPOD, but do they come with a 19 inch screen (measured diagonally)? Even with my glasses on, I’d never be able to use that postage stamp sized screen.”

Nope, but you probably knew that. My aging eyes are getting bad too. However if you can read standard magazine/newspaper print, then you can probably read the menus on an iPod. If not, then you may be out of luck. Fortunately, the iPod’s core music functions don’t require much reading once you know the menus.

(Quote)
to di ay xf Says:
December 13th, 2008 at 3:35 am

vdpm
cwmt uwsh
hoed jegy
juhu

(Quote)

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The Chevy Volt Will Have iPod Connectivity (Plus More Design Issues)

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