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The Volt’s #1 Fanboy and Our Wait List Story is the “Shot Heard ‘Round the World”

August 17th, 2008 | Posted in: Public Opinion

I’ve been called a lot of things and here’s another.

Anyway, that’s what I’m called in the title of a new story about my effort, brought forth by John Voelcker who writes for Hybridcars.com, IEEE, and WIRED. Read it here: HybridCars

It is an extremely well-written article chronicling our efforts here and hopeful plans for the future.

You wont find too many new Volt news facts, except there’s a little something at the end about when the Volt might appear for the first time. I’m not sure where John got that, but it wasn’t from me.

Also our Wait List story has reverberated around the web. After showing up on Reuters and DowJones wire, it rocketed across the Internet.

The traffic got so heavy at one point on 8/14 it brought our dedicated server down to a snarl. This was in large part due to being ranked among Yahoo News’ most popular stories. Our crack coder and server admin Karl (aka Drake) has done some retooling so we’ll be better prepared for the next surge.

So far I’ve noticed the story in the following very popular places:

Treehugger.com
Autoblog.com
GreenCarCongress.com
Automotive News (subscription)
just-auto.com
RedOrbit
LeftLaneNews.com
Jalopnik
New York Times
US News and World Report
Edmunds
Yahoo
MotorTrend
Detroit News

And also in another excellent piece worth reading by Chuck Squatriglia of WIRED .

This wide exposure has decisively helped spread the word about the Volt.

Also a hearty welcome to anyone coming here for the first time and thanks to the support of those coming here for a long time.

Onwards and upwards.

Posted by: Lyle

115 Responses to “The Volt’s #1 Fanboy and Our Wait List Story is the “Shot Heard ‘Round the World””

charley497 Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 9:04 am

Lyle,
So when do you get to drive a Volt?

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 9:05 am

Lyle, you are so dedicated.
GM should really give you a free Volt.
You so deserve it for all the work you do promoting this car.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 9:17 am

Drake, thank you for helping Lyle. We all appreciate it when the site is moving along nicely. Now, about that moderation problem…………

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Dave B Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 9:25 am

Interesting; wonder when GM will respond to the question from Reuters or the AP: “so, GM, what are you going to do with that wait list of 37,000-some odd people with your plans to launch in only a few small markets?”

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frankyB Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 9:31 am

The level of mature exchange is fantastic (yeah, even you Statik) and this site has become THE reference not only on the Volt but about the electrification of cars…

Thanks Lyle for showing so much passion despite your busy schedule

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Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 9:34 am

Dave B.
I figured I’d take the bus to NYC and drive home….

Be well,
Tag
PS Congrats Lyle!

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RLM Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 9:53 am

Lyle.

I increased the amount of deposit on the wait list, please tell GM I’m willing to make that deposit today, interest free, if they promise to give me one of the first 10,000. I’m in the 6 thousands in the list.

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MarkFLL Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 10:10 am

It’s amazing how fast the list and site membership has been shooting up. Makes my #1800 seem very low!

Go, Volt, Go!

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Firefly Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 10:15 am

They’re just upset that they didn’t think of it first. Good work, Lyle.

P.S. I think Lyle should get a Volt free. Whenever Michael Schumacher wins for Ferrari, he gets a free one. Lyle has helped GM get the exposure for the Volt that might not otherwise have happened to this degree.

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john1701a Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 10:28 am

Good luck to Lyle. All this attention paints a bullseye on him, the very thing I worked hard to avoid with Prius. It was quite a challenge to keep up with the needs of owners & expectants once rollout began. Far more will have to be made available as time goes on. Other websites will inevitably emerge to provide what’s missing. Issues of contention (like price) could split enthusiasts. Are you ready for that?

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RB Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 10:41 am

The hybridcars article linked in Lyle’s post really is very good, and accurate for the most part. For example, the article says:

“As a doctor and scientist, Dennis asks incisive questions that get to the heart of the matter—which he feels has brought him success, despite (or perhaps because of) not being trained as a journalist. As he points out, he didn’t know what he wasn’t supposed to ask—so he asked.”

That sounds like the gm-Volt site I’ve been reading. On the other hand, the article says a few things like this:

“There’s a risk to such uncritical support, of course. Some bloggers—and their commenters—painted the Volt as an example of GM “greenwashing,” no more than an effort to hoodwink the public….”

When I read this, I realized the article’s author had not been a long-time gm-volt reader, One of the best things about gm-Volt is that there is criticism, not wild blind and raging rants, but pointed and thoughtful criticism, both of the Volt and of course GM. Often it is rebutted by other bloggers. The general support for the Volt but also the independent analysis and thought in the comments in what makes this site so good, at least in my opinion.

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Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 10:42 am

john@10
There are plenty on contentious people here already, and yet the traffic just grows and grows.
Who knows, maybe this site will thrive on it – it has so far. Trolls come and trolls go, but the core marches on.
Be well,
Tag

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Spin Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 10:50 am

I will be happy when GM makes our “wait list” the official wait list….

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 11:04 am

Patience Grasshopper. All things come to he who waits. GM-Now get me the first Volt in Florida. Nice work Lyle and nice recognition. You deserve it. And

spin #13
I agree. I am #2023.

Take Care,
TED

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Benjamin Jones Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 11:19 am

Love yourself much? I’m unsubscribing.

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 11:32 am

Benjamin,
We welcome any who want to be here. SEE YA.
We all have made this site a success but Lyle deserves the most credit. Still if there were no fans of this site, there would be no site and no waiting list. For those with your feelings I think there are many other places you could blog. I for one am glad you will not be competing for my VOLT.
Take Care,
TED

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Green Motors Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 11:38 am

Don’t get too cocky there Mr. Lyle “The Publicity Hound”. The Toyotas, Mercedes and Nissans of the world are not sitting on their hands while GM is trying to gather all the free publicity they can muster. GM needs to be very careful about moving into Toyota’s green space. If you disturb a giant you might night like his response. GM is starting to show a little too much arrogance lately and that could come back to haunt them. GM fanboys your are still just playing catch-up with the rest of the automotive world. GM needs to spend more time on the quality of their existing product instead of R&D on unproven products.

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George K Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 11:45 am

From Autoblog.com, and others,
“the site claims that GM is aware of the list and considering making it official in some capacity.”

I wonder how it can be official “in some capacity”. Isn’t that one of those things that either is, or isn’t? Like being preg… in some capacity?

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Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 11:51 am

George K
From Autoblog.com, and others,
“the site claims that GM is aware of the list and considering making it official in some capacity.”
I wonder how it can be official “in some capacity”. Isn’t that one of those things that either is, or isn’t? Like being preg… in some capacity?

Kinda (g),
Be well,
Tag

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fred Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

I’m still ordering mine (stripped) no computer stuff, crank windows, squeeze bulb horn. Just electric motor and batteries. Maybe no gas tank.

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:02 pm

George
I agree a little pregnant is a little gray area. I do not think GM can afford to anger those on the list as they are passed by. 37,000 is getting to be too many to ignore.
Take Care,
TED

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chevonly Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:03 pm

From grass roots to tidal wave, this country needs more guys like Lyle and more people getting involved on the road to energy independence, Also look around 40k is a bargain for an electric car with the capabilities of the Volt. The Volt at 40k is mid priced you have to go up towards 100k on the high end and right now at the low end you can almost speed away at 25 to 30 miles per hour. So keep spreading the word.

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Narcissism Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:06 pm

Enough with the self adulation already. I have been visiting this site for around 6 months now and I have never seen so many whiners in one place. You all obviously need some cheese. The two most recurring whining themes from the fanboys on this site seems to be:
1 – Taking too long to make the Volt
2 – Price is too high
The reason the Volt is such a long way off is simply because GM is way behind the technology curve and they are still catching up to where they should have been years ago. As for price, the cost of raw materials cannot be controlled by GM.
The funniest whiners are the ones who actually believe that the price of the Volt will come DOWN in the future. You people are totally crazy. Listen to me now and believe me later: THE PRICE OF VOLTS WILL NOT DECLINE IN FUTURE YEARS !
However, they may release other models with reduced features that will carry a lower price. So any of you morons that think by waiting you will get a cheaper Volt – FORGET ABOUT IT.

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Arthur Morrison Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:10 pm

The problem I have with the site is there is not enough discussion about VTG possibilities for the Volt. Specifically using the Volt as a standby generator to power your home during a blackout or ‘renting’ the battery to the local power company to use as a grid buffer when you are on holiday. We need more on this Kyle. What standards are evolving? What is GM’s thinking is on this. In short the Volt is more than just a car. We need to know more.

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Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:11 pm

PDNFTT

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Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:13 pm

Arthur@24
GM IS consulting with utilities re a standard for V2G, etc. For now though,

Let’s just get the Volt’s wheels on the road!
Be well,
Tag

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:14 pm

V2G is not in the scope of VOLT v1. Even with a hurricane comming to Southwest Florida, wishing won’t make it so.
Take Care,
TED

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:15 pm

PDNFTT means what TAG?
Take Care,
TED

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Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:18 pm

Ted
PDNFTT

Please do not feed the trolls.
Be well,
Tag

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:25 pm

LOL
Excellent my friend. Where do you hail from?
Take Care,
TED

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Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:29 pm

LOL
Excellent my friend. Where do you hail from?
Take Care,
TED

I’m in central Penna, right next to absolutely nowhere (Lock Haven). Our town counsel is still debating whether or not to pave the street.
Be well,
Tag

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Dave B Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

Tag @ 6,

Maintenance may be a little difficult even if you can take a bus up to NY. GM may have a little bit of a problem honoring a warranty selling to out-of-marketers. Following the Aptera at all?

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:31 pm

Want me to reserve one of the Florida Volts in your name or will you wait till they get to PA?
Take Care,
TED

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Volt is Oil Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:32 pm

For all you GM fanboys that think the Volt is the answer for our Oil Dependency, you might not realize that much of the Volt components are made from Oil. That’s right. Thing like body panels, seats, dashboard, gas tank, what’s in the gas tank. tires, adhesives, plastics, etc. So it takes much oil just to make each Volt. We will depend on oil longer than the lifespan of any Volt vehicle. The net effect of the Volt will be totally insignificant in the use of oil by the country. You are all just dreamers. Dream on…

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:33 pm

Aptera? Other than a very low CD, aircraft like shape and availability only in California, no.
Take Care,
TED

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Statik Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:33 pm

A few things from the article maybe you could clarify Lyle:

A) “As a doctor and scientist, Dennis asks incisive questions that get to the heart of the matter”
–when did you become a scientist as well? hehe
B) “…positions at two New Jersey hospitals, three children under 10, and a side hobby of running marathons…building websites for fun”
–what do you do with the other 5 minutes of your day? (you make me tired)
C)”He eagerly awaits the unveiling of the production Volt at the LA Auto Show this November, and further details leading up to the launch in November 2010. He expects by then that his site will have “10 times the traffic””
–this sounds like you have confirmation about this. Surely if you you are commenting in response to it…rather than shooting it down?

Has GM confirmed the LA show to you? Or is it just a ‘wink-wink’ kind of thing? Or is the article just doing what articles do on the internet?

Anywhoo, nice article. You don’t really ever get payback for doing this sort of thing…so it is a feather in your cap.

When articles like this come out it may seem glamourous to others to front a site like this, or when you see Lyle get ’schmoosed’ by GM for trips. But the truth is the day to day rigors are very hard…and it gets tired in a hurry.

I know maintaining ‘the fort’ on a busy site like this takes many hours on a daily basis…and it gets in the way of all the other stuff you want to do and takes time from your family and three kids. So I know myself personally, I appreciate the sacrifice.

Even if you get a free car out of this at the end, it probably still isn’t a fair trade…unless you get #001, hehe. (Just keep putting your own family first…nothing is worth messing that up).

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Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:37 pm

No worries about maintenance – we have a Jeep with a hitch. Definitely worth the risk to be part of history.

Ted, it may come to that depending on HOW limited the release is. Maybe they’ll just let me keep the prototype (g).
Be well,
Tag

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At A Boy Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:38 pm

Jeez, don’t hurt yourselves with all the patting on the back going on around here. LMAO

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RB Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:42 pm

Because we can’t re-run history, we will never know what difference the presence of VoltNation and the gm-Volt blog did or did not make to what has happened to electric cars thereafter.

It is still easy to imagine how GM executives, all senior people who have grown to their present success by experiences in regular gas cars, might have enjoyed the burst of enthusiasm at the Volt concept and then moved on to other pressing projects.

The ongoing public interest in (and pressure for) the Volt that has been made evident by VoltNation, especially at New York, and through this site, may have made the difference in whether the car was ever produced.

The merits of the electric car are seen by others, but there’s no doubt that GM’s size and international presence has sparked a lot of interest from other car companies as well — really a big wave of interest that just was not there when the concept was introduced in 2007. Lyle has been the leader, but as he said, it is the whole VoltNation that may have drawn the corporate attention that created the changed outlook.

If someone had told me in advance that all this would develop as it has, I would have said the thought was ridiculous, so what has happened really is amazing.

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Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:43 pm

The Aptera is a neat niche three wheeler. VERY low drag though.
Be well,
Tag

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High Voltage Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

I want some of the weed you bloggers are smoking on this site. Get a reality check.

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:44 pm

Static
You sure are long winded today.
Take Care,
TED

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Tall Pete Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:45 pm

Doing research is a process that takes time, even when you are only tweaking an existing product to improve it. With the Volt, we are talking about a car that try to implement an approach that was never really attempted before, except maybe for a short period of time in the end of the EV1 experience. To a certain extent.

GM has to take the time required to develop the technology and the time frame they are giving themselves is already an incredible challenge. Hell, Toyota said it couldn’t be done and they know something about cars I would say.

So it’s gonna take time. Just bear with it. They cannot afford to miss this one and ruin what’s left of their reputation.

As for the list, it’s in the interest of GM to consider it. These are potential customers they had nothing to do to attract, no publicity, no incentive. What is there to lose for GM ? They will, at the least, consider the potential customers everywhere they are making the car available. In my opinion.

But that’s all the list is : potential customers. According to availability, price and so on, this list will shrink when there will be an actual contract to sign. I, for one, am on the list but might not be able to wait to buy a new car until a Volt is available in my area (Eastern Canada). So, even if I can meet the price point, whatever it will be, it’s possible I will not buy. But I do want to seriously consider buying it when time comes, so I’m on the list. Will I buy it ? It depends.

How many of the 38000 potential buyers are in the exact same situation ? How many will actually buy, given the real opportunity ? Will GM offer Volt cars in my area before 2013 ? Ever ?

Who knows ? So much can happen. We will see…

Until then, let’s hope for the best. If this makes me a “Fanboy”, I’m fine with that.

Pete

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Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

I love the pansies who log in with an alias. No cajones.
Sorry, but I had to say that or my head would explode. I’m better now…. really…
Be well,
Tag

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RB Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:49 pm

#4 Dave B asks “Interesting; wonder when GM will respond to the question from Reuters or the AP: “so, GM, what are you going to do with that wait list of 37,000-some odd people with your plans to launch in only a few small markets?””

It’s for sure that GM will use the list in some fashion to try to sell 37000 cars. From their point of view, having a list of thousands of people who want to buy a car they are going to make is wonderful good fortune, never before having happened with any other car. Just exactly how they will use it is yet unknown, but we can be confident that they will.

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Lyle Longfellow Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:55 pm

I have driven the Aptera. It is a very stable and nice ride. I am 6′ 4″ and had lots of room. A very affordable and comfortable vehicle. I would recommend it to anyone interested in a Volt but doesn’t need a four door sedan.

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Jake Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 12:56 pm

In my very humble opinion, I do not think this site’s waiting list will have any bearing whatsoever on who actually gets the first Volts. It’s an unofficial list that’s probably half full of people who will never actually buy a Volt, or even test drive one. This site, while it has done great things, cannot claim to take precedence over anyone else. Not the million other green car sites and fan clubs out there, not the folks who find out about the Volt from a TV commercial, not the family down the street from the local Chevy dealer who see a Volt in all its glory sitting on the lot. I personally believe that GM should NOT honor the wait list on this site. It just doesn’t seem fair, especially not for a supposedly mass-market car. It’s not like GM is going to produce 10,000 individually-numbered collectors edition Volts, like some limited-run Ferrari. I think this site risks a backlash from the general public if we get too gung-ho about our wait list positions.

Please, I don’t mean to be negative about the Volt or this site in general. But I often feel the need to inject a little reality (maybe Statik can appreciate this) and I think this was one of those times.

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I Q Missing Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 1:03 pm

I wonder what the average I.Q. is for the people on this site. I would imagine a mighty struggle to reach 100 points. I am also sure that every time one of you goes to the restroom you lose another valuable point as you flush.

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Ted in Fort Myers Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 1:15 pm

Mine is 156 but I am sure the largest part of this group is way higher than 100. oh ya PDNFTT. I forgot for a moment.
Take Care,
TED

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 1:21 pm

#48. My IQ is 61.

I learn a lot here and I’m sure it has increased by at least a point since coming here.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 1:23 pm

Lyle, Statik at #36 says
(Just keep putting your own family first…nothing is worth messing that up).

———-
I echo that. Your wife is such a saint for putting up with your two full time jobs. A good family life is so important. Please be careful of that.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 1:28 pm

The trolls are certainly out in force today.
This thread is loaded with them.
Does anyone have any repellent?

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Whitney Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 1:29 pm

Well, I have never posted an actual comment on the various articles posted here, but I have been checking the site daily for the last 6 months or so and I happen to be on the unofficial waiting list.

I just find it amazing that with so much publicity from outside news sources also comes idiots with no background knowledge on the Volt. It has become ridiculous trying to read these posts because the subject matter is constantly being dumbed-down by these trolls with their negativity and anti-GM sentiment. If you don’t like the Volt because it is a GM product, or because you have honda/nissan/toyota leanings, don’t come here and pollute our discussions with your cynicism.

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 1:33 pm

#53 Whitney.

I agree.

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john1701a Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 1:48 pm

>> Does anyone have any repellent?

Volt promotion must move beyond just the daily blogs (short-lived discussions with many tangents). It is essential for the forums (specific, on-going, easy-to-track threads) to become the dominant presence, complimented by downloadable education materials. Without those to clearly define what Volt is intended to deliver and how it actually works, you’re doomed to repeat the same history as previous efforts to promote other hybrids. Also, you’re leaving quite a lot wide open for trolls to exploit.

Lastly, keep in mind that it’s the traditional vehicles which pose the greatest resistance. Volt will be grossly out-numbered by them. Other hybrids offering heavy emphasis on electric motors are an ally, helping to advance battery technology & production.

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DonC Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 1:50 pm

#32 Dave, #35 Ted, #40 Tagamet, #46 Lyle

The Aptera suffers from the two seat limitation that Bob Lutz says was a kill switch for the EV1. So yes, Tagamet is probably right characterizing it as a niche vehicle. One drive wheel may also be a problem in seriously inclement weather, perhaps making it unsuitable for places like Colorado or Michigan. While I haven’t had the opportunity to ride in one (I’m jealous Lyle), the handling may well be better than the Volt’s — more under steer and better yaw characteristics.

http://blog.autospeed.com/2007/11/13/three-wheel-cars/

The drag is remarkable. With a CdA of .093m^2 compared to the Volt’s target of .5m^2, the Volt might be reaching for an EV range of 80 or 90 miles if it had the aerodynamics of the Aptera’s. (GM did such a great job with rolling resistance on the EV1 I think the Volt may do better than the Aptera even with four wheels. This is one area which has been inexplicably ignored here).

I’d also expect very little wind noise and an eerily quiet ride at high speeds. Lyle, was this your experience?

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mmcc Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 1:55 pm

What if…. GM does honor the waiting list in some fashion, or to the extent that it is geographically possible. A number under 10,000 could become a valuable commodity to someone who is at 90,000 on the wait list, really wants one of the first Volts, and has the financial resources to make it happen. Hmmm….ebay?

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Brady Vanderbilt Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 1:57 pm

#53 Whitney:
Better you not post. No need to bash other people’s opinions because you don’t like them. Your comments reveal you as somewhat arrogant and holier than thou. We don’t need that kind of attitude on this site. There will always be anti-GM, anti-Whatever individuals out there, but trying to disband others who don’t match your mindset shows your lack of intelligence. Better to keep your mouth shut next time. Word.

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Statik Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:00 pm

#42 Ted in Fort Myers

“Static, You sure are long winded today.
Take Care,
TED”

…but it’s a cool breeze today

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JEC Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:01 pm

IQ?

I finally learned, as Ted did today what PDNFTT meant. So does that bring my IQ up?

I think everyone agrees that Lyle puts a lot of work into this site, but also, let us not shine his badge to brightly. There are plenty of people who put in long, laborious hours, toiling at jobs that give little to no recognition for what they are doing. Lyle has chosen to spend his time building this web-site and all the work that comes with it. It is something he has a passion for.

I do appreciate his efforts and this site, but I also appreciate the guy who picks up my trash. This is no way meant to demean Lyle or the trash man.

Take care.

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Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:07 pm

Methinks it’s time to move on to the next thread.
Be well,
Tag

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DonC Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

#53 Whitney #54 Rashiid

i don’t spend much time criticizing GM but there is plenty of reason to bash them. When you think about all the good they could have done, and how much bad they actually did, it does set your teeth on edge.

The EV1 was a great technological breakthrough. No question about that. Putting aside the PR nightmare GM created for itself, everyone agrees — indeed GM has said — that had GM moved forward with the technology they had at the time we would have had the Volt ten years ago. That would have been a true contribution to our country’s national security and economic prosperity.

But GM didn’t just fail to do the right thing, it went on to create mischief. Rather than trying to develop cars that kept emissions low and mileage high, like Toyota and Honda, GM filed federal lawsuit after federal lawsuit against those states trying to regulate emissions. It also went to Congress and enlisted the true axis of evil — Carl Levin, Jesse Helms, and Newt Gingrich — to prohibit the federal regulators from even studying the problem of emissions and the increasing national security problems inherent in an ever increasing dependency on foreign oil.

GM’s success in these endeavors has contributed mightily to our current problems. Some GM bashing should not only be tolerated but expected

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JEC Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:17 pm

61 Tag

Agreed.

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ThombDbhomb Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:18 pm

I’ve been waiting for car technology to turn a major corner since the early 1970’s. Can it really be so close? Has battery technology advanced sufficiently to provide a tipping point? We will see.

As this post demonstrates, enthusiasm is building. These are exciting times for many. To the cranks out there, if you really want to bring us down, you need substance. Empty negativity won’t do it. For a lesson in productive counterpoints, study the ways of Statik. Otherwise, you are easily dismissed as a sad little troll.

I echo the thanks people send to Lyle for organizing this enthusiast focal point. It amazes me that so many crazy people are interested in the same thing that interests me (the Volt).

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mikeinatl. Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:21 pm

OK, GM has made a TON of mistakes over the years.

My father was a General Sales Manager for GM and left that very good job because he said they wouldn’t make a quality, small, efficient car. That was in 1959! This pattern goes waaaay back.

However. GM is an American company employing thousands of good people who want to make a product they can be proud of. There was a time when I would own nothing else.

And, although there is not now one car in their entire product line I would buy, I am on the wait list for a VOLT.

I am proud of GM for making the commitment to make this giant course correction and I look forward to following what I hope is a HUGE success for GM and American car manufacturing.

And if successful, the VOLT concept could well impact our need for foreign oil, our energy independence and our need to have a very dangerous and expensive presence in hostile countries around the globe. It also has great potential for reducing CO2 emissions, of course.

And by the way, if you think the IQ of the VOLT nation is sub-par, I suggest you surf a few of the previous threads and read discussions about battery theory and design, drag coefficients, and other engineering discussions.

I have found that people who lash out in anger at strangers are almost always very unhappy with their own lives. So to them, remember, carrying around anger for someone is like drinking poison and expecting them to die.

I’m really enjoying the VOLT nations input.

Thanks to Lyle and his cohorts!

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Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:27 pm

DonC
“But GM didn’t just fail to do the right thing, it went on to create mischief. Rather than trying to develop cars that kept emissions low and mileage high, like Toyota and Honda, GM filed federal lawsuit after federal lawsuit against those states trying to regulate emissions…”

Why didn’t you mention that Toyota was also part of that same law suit?
Be well,
Tag

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ThombDbhomb Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

At this point, I don’t care what GM did in the past. As long as GM is leading a revolution I can support, they deserve my support.

Also, I forgive the Brittish, Germans, Italians, and Japanese.

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john1701a Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:30 pm

See what I mean about tangents… Even though side discussions can be constructive, they have absolutely nothing to do with the topic. They have the unfortunate effect of diluting and changing focus.

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Jesse James Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:40 pm

As far as the Aptera being a niche vehicle. Of course it is, the entire Hybrid, EV market is a niche market. I don’t expect electric vehicles in any form to be main stream for at least 10 years or more. Remember it took the gasoline powered cars decades to overtake electric cars. This will take time, but I hope i am around to see electrics take over the marketplace for personal transportation. Time answers all questions.

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Koz Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 2:57 pm

Making derogatory comments without substance…sooo easy a caveman can do it!

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The Red Baron Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:05 pm

#67 ThombDbhomb

I would not use the word Revolution, more like Evolution. As far as I can tell there is not one piece NEW technology going into the Volt. The Volt reminds me a lot of the F117 Nighthawk program many years ago. We just took existing technology at the time (COTS) to piece together a new type of aircraft in record time. It was the “integration” that was the differential not the technology itself. Ronald Reagan’s vision of the use of stealth and ballistic missile defense was way ahead of its time. I hope GM is applying some of these same integration principles with the Volt. BTW, the F117 Stealth Fighter has been discontinued, it was officially replaced in 2008.

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Frank B Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:07 pm

Yeah, I’m like 28,000..I’ll never get one if they’re still talking about a 20,000 unit first year run, ugh

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Statik Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:13 pm

#72 Frank B

“Yeah, I’m like 28,000..I’ll never get one if they’re still talking about a 20,000 unit first year run, ugh”

You’d be amazed what the number would be if you needed to put $5,000 down vs just entering you email. I’d say we’d be at about 300.

So if lightning strikes Lyle’s site and they somehow managed to use some part of the wait list as priority sequence to get start the ‘real’ wait list…(and you had 5K to blow), you’d be waaaaay up at the top.

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Whitney Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:15 pm

#58 Brady Vanderbilt

First, I am not trying to dissuade anyone to not post. I have owned several vehicles made by nissan, toyota, mercedes, etc. and all make fine autos. I am by far not biased towards GM. However, I have a problem with those that make comments without any regard to the topic of the discussion, (i.e. attacks on individual’s I.Q. and other personal attacks). I don’t have a problem with people who have different opinions than I. I do have a problem with those who attack others and have no factual evidence to base their claims. If it is going to be an intelligent discussion, the personal attacks should be left out. That is the only point I was trying to make and I am sorry if it offended you or anyone else.

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omegaman66 Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:18 pm

Double ugghhh.. more “evil GM” for not giving us a car that still nobody else has either. Ohhhh evil GM for selling cars that people wanted.

Why isn’t it evil all others for not building a Volt years ago. Why isn’t it evil toyota for trying to steal the big truck market away from GM? Why isn’t it evil for ALL of the other car makers for dropping there plans for EV’s at the same time that GM did? Why isn’t it evil toyota for sitting on the prius for 10 years and not incorporating that tech. into all of their cars.

More senseless blah blah blah GM is evil as they work towards producing the first AER 40 mile vehicle from a major automaker. As with everything in the news today.. up is down and down is now up.

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Sir Lancelot Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:31 pm

Is this blog Fair and Balanced ? You decide.
I think i have decided to go visit the Fox News Channel to get both sides of the story about this Volt.
Adios

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:46 pm

Whitney, #74

I might be the only one here that understood your comment at #53
I thought it was quite clear you were talking about the trolls.
But with my IQ of 61, you never know.

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Bryce Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:47 pm

lol, the comment posts are entertaining as usual. : )

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Rashiid Amul Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:49 pm

Statik #73

My number is 110 on the wait list. Pretty darned close to the beginning of the list. Yes it was free.
However, I can tell you that if the car was to sell for $30K,
I would put the $5,000 down.
The Volt will most likely not be suited for me and my 101 mile round trip daily commute, but my wife could sure use it and probably never use gas.

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RB Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:53 pm

#73 Statik

So if GM marketing would wake up, they could ask everyone on the list to put down $5K deposit towards a purchase at MSRP. Then Chevrolet could deliver Volts accordingly. It would be fun for GM, the customers, and most of all the dealers through whom delivery was made, as they would get the standard commission.

If you are right, the number would be so few the deliveries would be easily accomplished.

If you are wrong and the number was much higher, then GM could move some marketing resources into producing more cars.

Of course, GM may feel they get more mileage by advertising the Volt than by delivering it. That’s not to say they won’t deliver someday, but they could be considering still to be mainly an image car.
.

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Johnny Hyperlink Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 3:54 pm

Apparently GM has already begun development on additional electric cars (more than 2 already have scale prototype designs finished):

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/85393cf6-6c86-11dd-96dc-0000779fd18c.html

Also, looks like Kentucky wants Electric Car Plant really bad:

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080816/NEWS01/80816011

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RB Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 4:04 pm

#81 Johnny Thanks for the FT link. I saw it also says

“GM said last week that it would choose the Volt’s battery supplier before the end of the year.”

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ThombDbhomb Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 4:12 pm

#68 john1701a
Tangents seem likely after the main topic has been exhausted and people still want to talk. The topic is “Our web presence has grown.” There is only so much we can say about that. The “comments” are the best place for pub conversation. Nonetheless, your point about the forum being a better repository for topical discussion seems valid. Are our forum discussions rambling?

#53 Whitney
I’m glad you started commenting. I’m sure you’ll add
value to the discussion.

#71 The Red Baron
Evolution suggests subtle changes over a long period of time. Revolution is a sudden or momentous change in a situation. Going from ICEs to E-REVs seems to be a revolutionary point in the evolution of the automobile. If “evolution” works for you, I won’t hold it against you. But “revolution” seems more apt to me. Either way, it is a minor point.

#77 Rashiid Amul
You were not alone. I understood Whitney’s frustration also. But, this is the internet and anyone can come to the party. I’ve learned that you can’t persuade the cranks to leave. They are, for better or worse, part of the world – like influenza.

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Jean-Charles Jacquemin Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 4:17 pm

Greenmotor #17

Please don’t discredit GM cars so fast.

In fact in Germany Opel (a GM branch here) was first on reliability last year well ahead of Mercedes and BMW.

My three Opels I bought since 2000 only left me once stuck for two hours but the service was really good and … that was in France one Saturday morning !

When I compare with my collegues who own Toyotas or BMW, they have been more annoyed than me in the last eight years than myself.

Lyle, thanks a lot for all your initiatives, you deserve to be universally recognized.

(Quote)
DonC Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 4:29 pm

#66 Tagamet – “Why didn’t you mention that Toyota was also part of that same law suit?”

The smart aleck response would be “because they didn’t.” The only car manufacturers filing suit were GM and DaimlerChrysler. Perhaps you’re confusing the Zero Emissions Law with the later lawsuit about the Pavley Law on air quality? (The idea behind the Zero Emisisons Mandate was to encourage auto companies to incubate new technology rather than simply make internal combustion engines cleaner).

The reason I didn’t mention DaimlerChrysler, and the reason I wouldn’t have mentioned Toyota had it been a party to the suit, is that I didn’t think it mattered since the issue was GM “bashing”.

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MarkFLL Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 5:17 pm

Sir Lancelot #76

“Is this blog Fair and Balanced ? You decide.
I think i have decided to go visit the Fox News Channel to get both sides of the story about this Volt.”

Right! LOL (sarcasm)

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GXT Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 5:41 pm

I’m not sure about the average IQ, but I would wonder about anyone who thought the waitlist was actually meaningful.

Guess how many times I am on the list and I have no intention of buying.

Enjoy fighting to try and get one and then be thankful when you can’t. Let some other sap play beta-tester-huge-depreciation-something-better-for-much-less-a-year-later game.

(Quote)
Jeff M Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 5:46 pm

Quote “This wide exposure has decisively helped spread the word about the Volt”

I hope it’s done more than just spread the word about the Volt, but about BEV’s in general, and hopefully also inlightened folks to the the hydrogen hoax and the (corn based) ethanol boondoogle, since the media just spreads the misinformation (mainly by omission) of those last two.

(Quote)
Marcus R. (WL #5275) Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 5:49 pm

I don’t expect our list would even get consulted until the 2nd or 3rd model year when there is sufficient volume and vehicles to spread around. GM has already stated an intent to go to California, New York, Washington DC and Florida first. They could get our members in those locations from the list if they wanted to just appease us. The problem with going anywhere near our list is that it can’t be fulfilled in order or anytime soon. Even if I could get my hands on one of the first models, I’d have no ability to get it serviced if anything went wrong (I live in Nebraska)
A whole lot of patience is required here folks, it’ll be a long time.

(Quote)
N Riley Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 5:55 pm

Great story once again, Lyle. Keep up the good work. You sure have everyone’s attention. If what you do gets you called a “fan boy” then more power to you. I wish you much success in the future.

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RB Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 6:01 pm

#89 Marcus

For me, and I think for most here, if GM doesn’t want to sell to me, then I don’t want to buy it. As I am in NC, I doubt that they do want to sell me one, but I rarely say never. They can keep; the car, if they view a sale to me as an appeasement.

Since their business is selling cars,however, I don’t see why GM would avoid interested buyers. They certainly spend a lot of money trying to find them.

(Quote)
RB Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 6:07 pm

#89 Marcus

It could also be to GM’s interests to sell some Volts in Nebraska.

(Quote)
George K Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 6:33 pm

#19 Tagamet
“I wonder how it can be official “in some capacity”. Isn’t that one of those things that either is, or isn’t? Like being preg… in some capacity?

Kinda (g),”

Tag, I understand your answer, in some capacity!!?

Just back from a canoe trip.

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Grizzly Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 6:45 pm

Spin #13

“I will be happy when GM makes our “wait list” the official wait list….”

*** *** ***
I wish it would too, but at least for Gen1 there’s a little macro economic problem to deal with, it’s called supply and demand. It’s one reason I don’t think that anyone should be shocked by how much they go for. There’s never been a car like it and unlike the first Priuses to hit the pavement there won’t be any need to create demand. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see people in line at dealerships with gimmicks like offering a two year old trade in free to the dealership as an incentive to sell them one of the few they’ve got on hand and at full price. I’m guessing the first 10,000 might fetch upwards of $50K each. The one thing to remember is that if they do, those that buy them can probably afford anything they want and will be helping GM’s bottom line.

(Quote)
George K Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 6:52 pm

#21 Ted in Fort Myers
“I do not think GM can afford to anger those on the list as they are passed by. 37,000 is getting to be too many to ignore.”

I agree. Lyle’s list is an historic show of support for a car that is still 2 years out there. Plus, GM is very concerned about its image.

I was thinking that they would use the list whenever the Volt is available in a lister’s area. That is, it may not come to your designated dealership til 2nd. q. 2011. But when it does, they will give people on the list in that area / dealership, the first choice over other local customers.

Watch out for that tropical storm.

(Quote)
Dave B Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 7:43 pm

DonC @ 56,

My reference to the Aptera was only to compare the market offering. It’s limted to California residents only because of maintenance and other minor issues. My point is that I could see GM easily doing the same thing and indeed, Lyle has already reported they are looking at CA, New York, and for the life of me I can’t remember what other smaller markets. Not good from my Rust Bucket town.

(Quote)
Tagamet Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 7:58 pm

IMHO GM should accept a $5K deposit from people on the list, in the order in which they signed on. Nothing wrong with rewarding people who had faith in you when you were flat on the canvas.
I can picture them recreating a “Publisher’s Clearinghouse Sweepstakes” bit where they show up at your door with roses and a gallon can of gas (the last one you’ll ever need). OK, maybe we’ll have to go pick up our Volt, but that’s fine with me.
Be well,
Tag
“Unfair, Unbalanced, Unmedicated”

(Quote)
JBFALASKA Says:
August 17th, 2008 at 11:43 pm

37,000 hardcore salepersons eager to stop for gawkers, eager to talk to passersby, eager to offer a ride to friends and family, eager to spread the word as advocates of this history changing car. Something breaks, something isn’t quite right – inevitable in the first few months, the Volt Nation will quietly recognize they are part of history and not slander the brand. That is what Lyle’s waiting list should represent to GM. Wish they would embrace the patiently waiting, formally commit to the Volt Nation and prepare for the most astounding launch in auto history with the legions of Volt Nation soldiers ready to serve.

$10K ready for deposit here.

(Quote)
Jim I Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 12:21 am

john1701 #55:

I think that once the car is released, this site will change quite a bit. There will be forum posts on problems and fixes, modifications, upgrades, and even get togethers for groups that want to show off their cars.

But it is hard to have discussions like that, when the car or actual specifications are non existant to us…

So until then, this site is just a large group of people waitng to see and possibly purchase the next big change in personal transportation!

(Quote)
me here Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 4:23 am

#34 Volt is Oil Says:
“The net effect of the Volt will be totally insignificant in the use of oil by the country. You are all just dreamers.”

As we are seeing now a drop of a few % in miles driven in the US and the teetering of economies around the globe by a few % has had a dramatic effect on the price of oil.

The Price-Demand equation here is resolved around the top end, the last few %. GM is still selling HUGE numbers of trucks and SUVs, but a 40% reduction in sales requires $6k incentives to move the prodcut now.

In 30 years (10 years for design and adoption, and 20 years for total turnover of the current US auto fleet) we can see significantly hihger MPG and less demand per car for benzene, unleaded or petrol) whatever you may cal it. Hopefully this will help stabalize the price and extend the use of this precious liquid resource further into the future.

THAT SAID.
I had hoped congress would have dropped gas taxes in the US for the summer, and then DOUBLED them in the winter permanently. Then using this future surplus to fund alt-eng and adv-tex to help increase efficiency and develop alternative fuels.

I think all cars sold in the US should be e100, b100, plug 110 compliant by 2020 (hydrogen, air and other fuels could get a pass from standardization). The in car infrastruce needs to be there so that the fules can be developed (affordably, environmentally, and without too much strain on food prices).

The gov ned not dictate HOW the standards are met, the makers could do that.

(Quote)
me here Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 4:35 am

#60 JEC Says:
“I do appreciate his efforts and this site, but I also appreciate the guy who picks up my trash. This is no way meant to demean Lyle or the trash man.”

here here! or is that hear hear!

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RB Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 5:42 am

#94 George K said “I was thinking that they [GM] would use the list whenever the Volt is available in a lister’s area. That is, it may not come to your designated dealership til 2nd. q. 2011.”

I agree with the likely use of the list, as that fits it with GM’s normally uninspired form of marketing. Making it worse, the car will go to some dealerships but not others, depending on the weight of the dealer. In our area these are outlets that sell in large volumes but to customers who are not knowledgeable about much of anything, including cars.

Some low level salesman will call our phone number on a rainy day, maybe by 2013 or 2014 as we will not be in a hot CA demographic. By then the dealership will have sold volts to everyone who will take one, including random dogs and the homeless. The salesman will call because my name is on the list, which by then will be an old, old list. The salesman will try to act like he’s been our close friend for 50 years. He’ll read a script into our answering machine. We will ignore the call. That will be that. It will be a rather pedestrian ending to a quest that started out, at least, as a innovative new kind of car.

(Quote)
mitch Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 8:30 am

Trollsare UP since the news went out about Lyle’s list…remember PDNFTT

#17 “If you disturb a giant you might night like his response” The Giant is GM (#1 for 75years Toy:0..I agree that may change)..the Giant is Awakening…

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Shawn Marshall Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 9:17 am

Lyle, Fan Boy #1, glad you get some kudos for publicizing the Volt and its prescient technology leap( at least for an American car manufacturer).
I’m also aghast at some of the negative remarks concerning you personally and the Volt technically.
If you harvested all the nutty things you get on this site you could make and sell cuckoo clocks for the rest of your like.
Voltiacs Unite!

(Quote)
Tagamet Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 9:39 am

JBAlaska,
That’s what i said (lol).
$10,001 deposit waiting here. (g).
Be well,
Tag

(Quote)
john1701a Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 1:59 pm

98 >> But it is hard to have discussions like that, when the car or actual specifications are non existant to us…

That’s missing the point entirely. Specifics aren’t required.

People are confused about the basics, understanding the components involved and how they interact.

Far too many assumptions are made and errors are abundant as a result. The dedicated supporters here should be addressing that already.

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noel park Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 2:09 pm

#25 & #26 Tagamet:

Right and right again.

#84 Jean-Charles Jacquemin:

38,000+ on the waiting list! Somehow this relates to your famous comment about how the internet and its related communication tools would allow ordinary people across the world to connect and spread the truth around the fog of spin and obfuscation coming from various governments, corporations, political parties and other interest groups.

#104 Tagamet:

Me too. You’re on a roll today my friend.

(Quote)
noel park Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 2:11 pm

Fanboys, whiners and trolls, ROTFLMAO

Welcome to the blogosphere friends, it’s all part of the fun.

(Quote)
Scott Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 3:59 pm

#2

Agreed, give Lyle a signature gm-volt.com Volt.

Payment for a PR job well done!

-Scott

(Quote)
jefro Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 4:18 pm

Listen the the nuts that read some of those sites.

“1. They are so going to screw this up.”

Not our kind of people.

I say GM can’t screw this up. If they made me a real sweet Corvette, and Pickup they can make me a Volt.

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Jim I Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 5:02 pm

john1701a #105:

The only way that would be possible is if Lyle forced any new users to first go through a “newbie” page of information. Everything is there at the top of the home page, if some of these people would just take the time to look at it first.

There are 38K+ people that have signed the list, and who know how many others have been on this site. To expect the top 100 or so posters to correct every piece of mis-information posted by any user is hardly realistic. Nothing new would ever get discussed!

And half the really wild posts are from trolls, that would simply start flame threads, when their positions are challanged….

(Quote)
john1701a Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 6:26 pm

I’m providing suggestions of methods already proven realistic.

The amount of mis-information about to be faced will be enormous. Someone needs to step up to the plate and start dealing with it. You compile facts and refer those “more info” links so regular discussions don’t get overwhelmed.

To not even try…

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RB Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 7:12 pm

#111 Go up to the header and look at the FAQs. They are helpful.

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john1701a Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 7:20 pm

If that’s all which will be provided, good luck… you’re going to need it.

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jeff38427 Says:
August 18th, 2008 at 8:12 pm

I like the idea of an electric car like the volt but I lived in Minnesota how do you think its going to work in 30 below weather and a foot of snow? I know for a fact batteries dont like severe cold. As for a deposit tell me the total price of the car that would be my deposit . great job on the web site

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The Volt’s #1 Fanboy and Our Wait List Story is the “Shot Heard ‘Round the World”

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