Aug 14
Interview with Chevy Volt Chief Designer About the Production Car: Plus Leaked Pictures and Video
As we have just heard, GM’s director of E-Flex design, Bob Boniface spoke at the Center for Automotive Research (CAR) meeting and at the same time new detail shots of the production car were released. Soon after that I had the chance to ask Bob some questions about that and other issues.
A key rumor dispelled is that the additional 6 miles of AER achieved by the redesign is NOT added to the 40, it’s just that the show car was unable to achieve that goal. Read the whole interview below:
So did you just release images of the front quarter and the rear shot today?
During the presentation I showed some mapping images cropped of the rear of the car. These were not for public consumption.
As part of the aero story I showed chunks of the show car and the same chunks of the production car and I talked about how and why they were different. I showed the rear corner and the front corner.
And I also discussed and showed images of the side view mirror and how we modified it for aerodynamic performance. I showed before and after shots of the rear spoiler and how it was aerodynamically modified.
What’s different about the rear spoiler?
It is higher and further rearward in the production car. What I showed is how we applied a higher millimeter tall lip to the end of it and how that resulted in a 5 count reduction in aerodynamic drag. 10 counts of aerodynamic reduction is equivalent to .55 miles extra driving range. The new spoiler and rear view mirror each removes 5 counts of drag resulting in a half mile more range.
In aggregate from the show car to the production model we’ve taken a total of 120 counts out, which equals 6 miles more range. However that 6 miles is not added to our 40 miles. We’re not giving you 46 miles now. It’s just that the original show car surface would not have delivered the promised 40 miles of range.
So the production car has a CD .12 lower than the show car?
Yes. The point of the demonstration was why we had to change the show car and how it changed.
So is the design now final or are there any further tweaks?
Aerodynamicallywe have met our target. As far as the styling goes, there will be essentially no changes from where we are today. We do have some more detail changes needed for manufacturing but nothing that anyone would notice if they were to see the car today.
Will the front grill be closed on the production vehicle as it appeared on the recent ABC news video?
It’s nearly completely closed. We take in a little bit of air along the side of the lower portion of the grill but its essentially closed. All of the air comes in at the bottom of the fascia, at the bottom of the bumper because the cooling requirements are such that we were able to send the air around the car to the motor compartment for cooling.
Can you say what size wheels will be on the production car?
No. They’re big enough.
Are you using tires that will run to flat so you dont have to carry a spare in the car?
We are not currently packing a full-sized spare in the car. We have provisions for getting home in the case of tire failure. We are not carrying a full sized spare because it will add extra mass and weight.
What can you say about the roof, will it be transparent, or have solar panels?
Its still a surprise for you.
Will there be a sunroof option?
We aren’t talking about vehicle options at this point.
Did you have to modify the wheels from the showcar so that they would be more aerodynamic?
We tried to stay as close as possible to the concept’s wheels. Aerodynamically speaking wheels are a very difficult thing to nail down. They need to be open to allow for brake cooling, but you dont want the surface to stick out into the airstream. Another big thing about the wheels’ design is that it would be mass-efficient, so its a pretty lightweight wheel. It may change slightly more as we’re still doing wheel testing in the tunnel.
Will the body be made out of steel or will you use special lightweight components?
There are a couple of areas where we have included some lightweight materials but in general we want to stick to conventional manufacturing processes and materials to keep costs down.
How different will the production car look from the showcar?
It is changed a bit from the showcar, the proportions have changed for a variety of reasons. But it is still a very good looking car. It is still very sporty. In a lot of ways it looks better than the showcar. The surfaces are much more sophisticated. I love the car, I think its fantastic. It’s not apologetic.
So there’s nothing on the road today it looks like, and it won’t look like a Prius?
You’ll know its a Chevrolet and you’ll know its a Volt. But does it look like any of our competitors vehicles? I don’t think so.
Were you able to keep the greenhouse height low?
We made the roof go as low as we could without compromising safety or comfort. We kept the roof low for style but also primarily for aerodynamic reasons. There’s the coefficient of drag and there’s aso the frontal area of the car. By keeping the roof down, we present a smaller frontal area.
Can you say whether there will be one or two charging ports?
The charging port or ports are in fact well-placed.
It was reported that you are revealing the car in Paris in mid-October, is that publicly confirmed?
We have not revealed when we are going to show the car. Any reports to that effect are conjecture.
Are you presently designing other E-Flex vehicles?
Yes, we are working on other vehicles. We are working on more than one other vehicle that uses this architecture and powertrain. I’m certainly not going to tell you what they are at this point. The E-Flex powertrain is going to spread across more vehicles than just the volt.
Are you keeping the theme of how the glass goes down into the body?
Its safe to say we are keeping some of that theme. Not only is it cool to look at but it improves rear visibility.
Is the interior theme components and finishes final?
We are very close to being finished with the interior surfaces. The theme is essentially set. We’re playing with grains and gloss levels at this point. We know what the content is going to be. We’re down to the last, last little details.
With respect to the ipod-like dash, are there touch screen controls?
It’s going to be two dash screens, the center one is touch sensitive.
Is there going to be internet access in the car?
I don’t want to talk about that.
Will there be running prototypes that look like the final car by the end of this year, as others have reported?
Representative body will not meet representative powertrain until sometime next year, and that’s in a developmental form.
Is the Hammtramck plant undergoing any retooling yet for the Volt?
We don’t know about that.
What was the reaction of the consumer focus group who actually got to see the production Chevy Volt?
It was overwhelmingly well-received. You didn’t hear any drawing of comparisons to other cars on the market, “it looks like that..etc”. I was absolutely blown away by the positive reception to the car. Regardless of the powertrain technology, they loved the car. You cant give a designer a better compliment than that.
[UPDATE: Leaked pic of full production back added, thanks to AndyChuck for the tip and credit to John Voeckler of hybridcars.com]
Also here’s a video of the presentation thanks to Sam Abuelsamid of Green Fuels Forecast:
[flash http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=daec5BwoQ3M&e]
This entry was posted on Thursday, August 14th, 2008 at 8:30 pm and is filed under Design, Images, Original GM-Volt Interviews, Video. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.
Aug 14th, 2008 (8:36 pm)What a tease!
I can’t wait.
Aug 14th, 2008 (8:39 pm)Excellent interview. I wonder how tall people will fit with the low roof line… (I am 6’4″)
Thank you Lyle.
Aug 14th, 2008 (8:40 pm)I am so excited about seeing this car! I feel like a kid on a Christmas Eve. The “wrapping paper” must be removed or I just might freak out.
Aug 14th, 2008 (8:41 pm)Great job and questions! Thanks for keeping this website going!
Aug 14th, 2008 (8:43 pm)Fantastic. I can’t wait for the reveal of the production car. It sounds like that might be pretty soon now.
Aug 14th, 2008 (8:46 pm)#2 Jarn: I have the same question (I’m 6’3″). I sat in an EV1 once and my head hit the ceiling. I felt like a sardine.
Other than that, it looks like GM has hit a home run, or at least a double, in the style department. That’s good. Now they need to deliver on performance, safety, and reliability.
It looks like they are giving the right amount of engineering and management resources to the project, so I’m hoping for the best…
Aug 14th, 2008 (8:54 pm)Boniface’s coyness and evasiveness is good business practice. You certainly don’t want the competition to know too much too soon.
I find it odd that he would say they are not providing a “full-size” spare tire. Of course they aren’t. Almost no cars (just trucks/SUVs) have full size spares. They have donuts. What an odd comment.
And I find it funny that he won’t identify any other GM EFlex vehicles under consideration, when Saturn/Opel are already advertising theirs.
I would issue a warning to this website if I may. Don’t let your enthusiasm for the project end up being unintentional espionage for the competition. If I were Toyota or Honda (or a Chinese car company) I would monitor this website daily. Let’s help GM keep some of their secrets. We don’t need to know about touch screens, iPod compatability, or other features far enough in advance to let the competition incorporate them into their products as well.
Aug 14th, 2008 (8:58 pm)“Were you able to keep the greenhouse height low?
We made the roof go as low as we could without compromising safety or comfort. We kept the roof low for style but also primarily for aerodynamic reasons. There’s the coefficient of drag and there’s aso the frontal area of the car. By keeping the roof down, we present a smaller frontal area.”
Arrrgh…. I knew it. Style over function. Yes, they said comfort wasn’t sacrificed but they didn’t say how it was done. Anyone know of a good “chop shop” to rip out the driver seat and do a remake to fit a 6’4″ person. GM, can you see there are people of height in the good ol’USA. Why force us to buy foreign? [face in hands] oh why…. what a world, what a world….
Aug 14th, 2008 (8:58 pm)Hints at internet/wireless access. I love it.
After one century, this is truly Car 2.0.
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:02 pm)We know new coef of drag is approximately 30% less than the original concept which is .12 as per the above interview.
Original drag = .12 *100/30 = 0.4
New drag = 0.4 – .12 = 0.28
It looks like many Aero improments happened since bob announced
that new design has 30% less drag than the concept. So I guess actual drag of the current design would be less than 0.28. Its truly a Prius beater as far as coef of drag without making the car look like
a science project as prius is.
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:07 pm)He’s being very coy with his answers, lol.
“What can you say about the roof, will it be transparent, or have solar panels?
Its still a surprise for you.”
“Can you say whether there will be one or two charging ports?
The charging port or ports are in fact well-placed.”
One thing that seemed weird to me (error, perhaps?):
“The new spoiler and rear view mirror each removes 5 counts of drag resulting in a half mile more range.”
Rear view mirror? did it stick through the glass or something? I thought they were always attached on the inside.
Also, re: roof, I hope its still glass (or similar) but they use the electronic tint control so that you can have it clear or dark.
Good for privacy, as well as permanently open sunroof without the greenhouse effect when parked.
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:14 pm)Great questions?
How do you hear this:
“However that 6 miles is not added to our 40 miles. We’re not giving you 46 miles now. It’s just that the original show car surface would not have delivered the promised 40 miles of range.”
And not even ask what the range currently is? You’ll probably get one of his evasive answers, but you have to ask.
Come on Lyle, I know they have pretty much welcomed you into the “old Volt club”, but you have to ask the important questions.
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:15 pm)Nice interview Lyle. Some interesting information. I saw the comparison shots of the concept and production car and thought it would be interesting to know more about the aerodynamic changes they made.
One interesting quote: “Representative body will not meet representative powertrain until sometime next year, and that’s in a developmental form.” I wonder what the usual standard is for the time between when that happens and when production usually starts. Could be a good clue as to whether they’re on schedule or not.
I think the Volt will look great. But then again I like the design of the new Honda hybrid as well.
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:18 pm)Just a crazy thought…
If Volt achieves over 40 MPG running on the extender and if in the short term the battery supply poses a bottleneck of Volt’s production line, how about selling the car without a battery? Naturally, the price should reflect the lack of battery. It will be a nice car with a great MPG, and the early buyers will be able to add the battery later, when the supply is sufficient. Moreover, I’m sure aftermarket Volt-compatible batteries will be developed by third parties. Some of them might be cheaper and better the “original”.
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:19 pm)Good interview Lyle, but when do you det to drive a mule?
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:23 pm)Move over Larry King…Here comes Lyle. Nice work buddy!
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:31 pm)Boy, things are really taking off. The olympic ads, news realeases and stories about this site… and the wait list is on pace to break 40,000 by the end of the weekend! The news reports were when we hit 33,000. You have to go back to May 5 for when we broke 20k. (Yes, I’ve been keeping a chart since Lyle started publishing the count.) Lyle, can you say “fruits of your labor”?
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:32 pm)I volunteer to test a mule and with my weight and hight (5’8′ 150#) I bet I can go farther heh heh.
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:32 pm)I cannot really make any comment about this article at this time.
I may be able to talk about it later, but as for now, I have no official opinion on this article.
Please, I cannot tell you more than I already have.
Your patience is appreciated.
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:34 pm)#12 GXT – “And not even ask what the range currently is? You’ll probably get one of his evasive answers, but you have to ask.”
GM is more or less locked into delivering a 40 mile EV range, most certainly using the vehicle specific “five cycle” test. That test is mandatory starting in 2011 and GM would presumably not want to change the ratings between 2010 and 2011. Plus you have to think GM would not want to use an industry average for such an exceptional car.
As for asking the designer about EV range, at some point it’s not up to the design team. If they’ve produced a car that meets or exceeds the aerodynamic specs it’s now up to the engineers to “make it so”.
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:35 pm)#14 Danmaz
My guess is that the car wouldn’t work without a battery because the ICE is designed to operate at a steady power point to recharge the battery, while the battery provides the surges in power for acceleration. So you would have to modify the engine to run over a full power curve, and then of course you would have to couple it to a conventional transmission which the Volt currently is not designed for. Then… it would no longer be the volt. It would be a Cobalt with a different body.
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:44 pm)I hope they can deliver it for $30,000
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:48 pm)GM can apply this knowledge that they have acquired on how to reduce drag on all of its lineup and pass the savings to the customer
and increase sales volume.
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:54 pm)Great interview, Lyle. I want the color that they are showing in the picture of the front. Is the blue affect real or touch-up?
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:55 pm)GM better not cancel the Volt or any other E-flex vehicle designs if gas prices drop, this needs to be for a better future, not just a better present.
Aug 14th, 2008 (9:55 pm)Can a 6′ person sit comfortably in this car??? Or 6’4″ as someone else asked? This was a bad problem with the early Toyota Forunners. The seats would not go back far enough or sit low enough for anyone taller than about 5″8″. They lost a lot of buyers.
Aug 14th, 2008 (10:00 pm)Unfortunately, our illustrious Earth world media has misinterpreted his driving range remarks, so that now the world thinks the Volt will travel 47 miles on juice alone, including Australians (who, interestingly enough, don’t have commute distances as long as ours, and will apparently use virtually no liquid fuel comuting – the average daily mileage logged by all Aussies, commuters or not, is only 27 miles).
Aug 14th, 2008 (10:05 pm)#10 Talks
FYI, the cd of a Prius is said to be .26. It is pretty darn low thanks to that unmistakable shape. It would be great if the Volt could match it, with a sporty look to boot.
Aug 14th, 2008 (10:14 pm)The Grump Says:
Look at me preen and act like I know something when no one asked.
Aug 14th, 2008 (10:15 pm)Some good info, to be sure.
Interesting about the grills. When I look at them, it looks like a thin slot outlining the two grill pieces for air to pass through. I know he said a small opening on the side of the lower grill, but they look more opened than that, so good design work!
Aug 14th, 2008 (10:21 pm)kent@27
Up to this point, GM has always quoted the 40 AER as at the battery’s end of life point. Still nothing to say that it won’t start out at 50 and work it’s way down over the life of the battery.
Just a thought,
Tag
Aug 14th, 2008 (10:22 pm)I agree with Jim in PA, # 7 and canehdian, # 11. Bob certainly dodged or avoided a lot of questions.
Of course, this can seem bad, as it means we get fewer direct answers and fewer details.
However, I see a silver lining. If GM is beginning to keep more info under wraps, it means this is not just a “science project”, but a vehicle that is destined for production in a competitive marketplace.
I’m sure they know that the competition is lurking nearby and trying to find easy ways to copy this technology. Obviously they monitor this website. No matter what the Volt’s AER truly is, I’m afraid we will be told it is 40 miles from now until the actual release date. Things will become much more serious from this point forward.
Aug 14th, 2008 (10:24 pm)Since aerodynamic drag is not linear with speed, but a power function, I assume the correlation quoted between drag and mileage is at highway speeds of roughly 60 MPH.
Aug 14th, 2008 (10:40 pm)This entire post as well as the one before it has to be the equivalent of finding the most attractive woman in the world, she gives you a lapdance raises her skirt about 3 inches, leans over to kiss you and stops about .5 inches from your face and tells you she’ll see you next week when she gets back from Seattle…
…now stop teasing us and build the darn thing.
Aug 14th, 2008 (10:58 pm)Long time lurker, 1st time poster…
#10 Talks – I think your close, but a tad optimistic..
Per this earlier Bob post – the Cd on the concept was .43 – See:
http://www.hybridcars.com/carmakers/chevy-volt-no-longer-electric-camero-0617.html
Per this thread, Boniface said “In aggregate from the show car to the production model we’ve taken a total of 120 counts out” – That’s dropping .12 off the Cd..
So. by my math 0.43 – 0.12 = 0.31 for a “production” Cd.. My guess is that their internal goal was <= .30 – The Prius is know to be 0.26 – A great list of Cd’s is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficients
I actually learned that the 1948 Tucker Torpedo had a Cd of 0.27 – The bottom of the list is the EV1 at <0.20 (for 1996) – Check out the photos at the bottom of the Wipedia article, it’s not always visually obvious what a Cd will be just by the look of the car (at least not to me…)
So, bottom line – 0.31 for the “production volt” – That’s definitely respectable, but not “amazing” – my sense is that they did make an honest attempt to keep some of the “concept” look, at the expense of more Cd points – They could have pushed for those last 50 points (to get to Prius numbers), but it would basically end up looking like a Prius – which obviously doesn’t look anything like the Volt concept..
One final comment – Then down from the Cd soapbox. I appreciate all the hard work to drop the Cd by .12, I’m sure that was some “interesting” meetings between the designers and the aero engineers.. But honestly, how in the world did they build such a “aero brick” (a brick has a Cd of 2.0 from Wipedia) – for the concept car – I mean, it’s not like the EV1 (and/or the Prius) didn’t teach them that aero wasn’t key on any EV. So why did they ever let such a “non-aero” concept even be shown – they should have known this would never fly (pun intended). My theory, is they NEVER intended the original concept to be made. It really was green-washing back then. Then, the public reception to the concept was VERY positive, gas prices exploded, a sizable alternative energy rebate is likely with the next president and congress (R or D), and suddenly, then we’re pushed to suddenly really, really build, what had just been a “designer” excersize of the concept (with obviously little aero feedback or even testing done on the concept), into a “real” car.. Having Lutz get annoyed at Telsa, was probably the last straw, and it convinced him the Li batteries could indeed be made to work. The volt concept styling had received positive press, and next thing you know, they are trying to really build it..
Which brings us to the present, a mad dash, and “engineering” crunch to build a car, that as originally designed/concieved, had the intent of never being built – I’m personally pretty sure they are very committed to build it now, it’s now just down to money (pricing and GM’s ability to survive till 2011 ish).
I wish them well, and I hope it gets built, and I could even spring for #35K after tax rebates myself (I’m in the low 2Ks on the waiting list).. I just find some irony in that they have somewhat created their own “monster” with what I think just started out as a PR event.. It should make for a good book someday (anyone ever read “Soul of a new machine” or “Showstopper”?), for the engineers that survive the current “death march” – Hopefully, it turns out well, and they hit the current timelines…
My 2 cents – Bring on the feedback (or flames)!
Guy
Aug 14th, 2008 (11:14 pm)Wheel size is very important not only in heigth and width but in the size of the foot print the wind going under a car can change just how a car drives in many ways a 1/2″ under neat in height can mean 1″ higher in the roof that might help you fit in the car without hitting your head thats cool
Aug 14th, 2008 (11:32 pm)Wow…How do I get on one of those “focus groups”?
Exclusive Ehh? Good job Lyle!
Aug 14th, 2008 (11:34 pm)From the blog:
“Are you keeping the theme of how the glass goes down into the body?
Its safe to say we are keeping some of that theme. Not only is it cool to look at but it improves rear visibility.”
*** *** ***
This tells me that a there will be a good deal of glass on the hatchback like the concept had. I wondered about that as this car developed and whether or not they would be able to keep that aspect.
Aug 14th, 2008 (11:54 pm)Note to Bob Boniface:
You go right on teasing us with those coy answers.
It makes it more fun!!!!
I can’t wait to see it. I can’t wait to drive it.
And now for the shameless plug:
Since I live in your hometown of Poland, Ohio, you should work to see that one of the first Volt’s is represented here…… I would be proud to have that honor!
Shameless plug off.
Aug 14th, 2008 (11:59 pm)Off topic:
Did any of you see this from the home page?
“Most Users Online Was 925 on August 14, 2008 @ 6:27 pm”
No wonder things were running so slow today!!! As I recall, the most users previously was like 600 or so.
You have done well, Lyle!!!!
Aug 15th, 2008 (12:11 am)Many years ago I got to work with the original talented Saturn people as the brand was being developed. At that time the Miata was already out, and seemed like a hit with the public. While at the GM tech center, GM had a prototype that was well ahead of the sporty Miata mainly in styling . I was frustrated even then that GM was not able to get their great design to the street fast enough. All these years later, I’m hoping things have really changed, and that marketing and engineering can finally cooperate for the good of all concerned. Especially the public. This is bigger than just another “pretty” car. Glad to see GM has a fire lit under them now.
Aug 15th, 2008 (12:13 am)Kent #33
I’m sure the correlation is based on whichever metric GM is using to determine 40 mile range but I don’t think that is simply 60mph highway. That would be great but I believe GM has mentioned a city cycle.
Aug 15th, 2008 (12:25 am)I agree with #7.
It’s good that Mr. Boniface and everyone else who Lyle interviews is evasive and coy with their responses.
For all we know a Toyota R&D person could be reading all of this now and before you know it, the next Toyota Prius will have touch screens and glass door panels. : (
You would hope the competition wouldn’t stoop that low but thats just how the business world works. Hopefully GM stays on top of it’s game and keeps the juiciest details for when the Volt launches.
As for the interview, I’m getting more and more excited with every new detail. I think the production Chevy Volt will look much sharper than the concept. Maaaaaybe not as distinctive, but definitely iconic and clearly ahead of its time.
Also I SERIOUSLY hope other E-FLEX vehicles live up to the Volt’s “futurism level”. I’d hate to see a bland rebadge of a Volt. Thats just mean. haha
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:29 am)Tag #31
That increased range sounds good for drivers, but I imagine battery management software will give you about 40 miles regardless. Lowers battery wear and lengthens life from the beginning and gives consistency of driving experience through the life of the warranty period. No complaints of fewer miles over time and warranty repair costs to GM are lower.
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:32 am)Internet, huh? Doesn’t seem like such a great idea to me (I walk into poles while texting)
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:39 am)WooHoo!!
This is gonna be good =)
Like post #3 says, I feel like a kid waiting for the present;
I’m not even gonna worry about the design anymore. Clearly, it is ONE HOT SPORTY CAR!!
Now…I just have to start worrying about the price…oh well. I’m hoping with rebates $33,000 US will be the final price.
Good JOB DESIGN TEAM!! Now it’s all upto you, ENGINEERS AND MANAGEMENT; make it good and don’t price it too high!!
GO VOLT!!
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:56 am)As a 6′, 180# father of two, who takes two little kids in carseats to daycare and preschool everyday, goes to the big-box hardware store for bulky home remodeling materials, and takes the whole family of four with our gear to the in-laws an hour away every other weekend or so, I have to ask: How small is it?
Because my current car, a Mini Cooper, will get seriously jealous if another little car takes over those duties.
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:25 am)Good work Lyle, but there was no question relating to battery
Aug 15th, 2008 (3:14 am)love those corners
Aug 15th, 2008 (5:38 am)I will wait for the Tesla sedan to come out. Im looking for a real electric car not this 40 minus mile gas car.
Aug 15th, 2008 (6:27 am)What happened to question 1 on the last thread? I worked so hard to get the first thread in and my question was totally avoided. With all the half answers I’m quite sure it would have been fruitless to ask how much it’ll cost. He probably made you sign something saying not to directly ask how much it will cost, exactly how far you can go in EV mode, and which batt manufacturer they’re picking.
Although Lyle, next time your chatting it up with these big wigs would it kill you to take em out afterwards buy em a few beers and see if that loosens their tongue’s a bit? And then when they are good and plastered ask to take their keys and have them direct you to the mule and drive em home in that.
Aug 15th, 2008 (6:59 am)darladeena @49,
There have been rumors that the Tesla sedan is going to be similar to the Volt in that it will have a smaller battery than the Roadster and have a range extender of some type. If that turns out to be true, the Tesla sedan won’t be a fully electric car any more than the Volt will be.
Aug 15th, 2008 (7:20 am)Like others, I’m worried about fitting comfortably in the Volt. I remember reading that GM was designing the car to accomodate someone in the 95th percentile by height. I’m 6’4” and according to the most recent statistics I could find, the 95th percentile for 18-79 year old men was about 6’1”. These percentiles were from 45 years ago, so I’m sure the 95th percentile is closer to 6’4” now, but probably not quite there yet.
Aug 15th, 2008 (7:25 am)#49 darladeena
Don’t diss the Volt. I don’t hate Tesla, but please, talk about the Tesla sedan somewhere else. This blog is about the Volt specifically, not so much about electric cars is general.
Aug 15th, 2008 (7:30 am)MDDave, #52.
You could be right about the height, but in the last 45 years we have also grown in width. The extra weight may hurt mileage a bit.
Aug 15th, 2008 (7:44 am)Rashiid @ 54,
Here is where I got the height percentiles from:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/series/sr_11/sr11_008.pdf
The report also has data for weight and other fun stats like elbow-to-elbow breadth and seat breadth. Look through the tables in Appendix I.
Aug 15th, 2008 (7:54 am)Most telling part of the interview:
“Will there be running prototypes that look like the final car by the end of this year, as others have reported?
Representative body will not meet representative powertrain until sometime next year, and that’s in a developmental form.”
“Is the Hammtramck plant undergoing any retooling yet for the Volt?
We don’t know about that.”
–I can tell you first hand (well, first hand person to me), there is absolutely NOTHING Volt happening there
I got ‘mathed’ last thread about aero efficiency, I said I’d rather have 1 more kWh (from 8 usable to 9), and have the concept…which was met with, ‘you’d need sooo much more power to achieve the same range as new production vehicle’ Today, we find out only 6 miles is the difference between concept and production? They have been fooling around with millimeters on fins, side mirrors and ‘jelly-beaning’ the car up for a year all for the sake of 6 miles?
Heck, I’d take the concept w/34 mile range over the new version and a 40 mile range (leaving the battery ‘as is’) in a split second.
Aug 15th, 2008 (8:10 am)Hmmm…talk about evasive answers. The info about the AER is the closet thing to real info from the interview. The pictures speak for themselves…just teasers.
#53: Competition is healthy and it should be recognized. Believe or not…some folks may have not heard of Telsa motors. However I agree…the apparent negative comment is not useful.
Aug 15th, 2008 (8:17 am)#56
A better question would have been…When does the physical (not design) retooling work begin at the Hammtramck plant?
I agree about the fine tuning of the aerodynamics. Did it add significant value at this stage? Such fine tuning can be done in one of the following model years. 40 miles AER must be a hard requirement.
Aug 15th, 2008 (8:24 am)So it seems it is not going to look like a competitors car but will share some the same features.
A Prius like rear window with the spoiler running through it.
Rear seat head room is usually inadequate in GM sedans. Part of the compulsion to buy SUV’s I expect. Too bad there is not a regulation to require at least 38″ of headroom.
But never fear, I expect Nissan will put their hybrid drive in a Versa like vehicle with plenty of headroom.
If the city AER was 32, with the new production design it seems to have been increased to 35 miles. Similarly, if the highway AER was 27 miles, with the new production design it seems to have been increased to 33 miles. Now we are cookin!
Aug 15th, 2008 (8:34 am)56. Statik,
Usually I agree with you. But I am going to have to respecfully disagree on this point.
Do you really think they were at 34 and this tweaking has got them to 40? I believe it is a common assumption that the Volt does better in the city than the highway due to regen braking and lower drag, therefore even by GM’s claimed 40 miles the highway range is bound to be lower. This 6 miles could have taken them from 20 to 26 for all we know. Turn on the AC or the heater and you could be down to high teens on the highway.
Not only that, the range extender would provide much worse fuel economy without these enhancements.
They very well just shaved a couple thousand dollars off the price of each car by not requiring a slightly larger battery to get their 40 mile range.
Finally, they have so much work to do in so many areas that I can’t imagine that having an aerodynamics team perform this work would really impact their schedule.
I would have assumed that you of all people would appreciate the hoops that GM is having to jump through now that we know how little they actually knew when they pulled that 40 mile range out of marketing’s PR-a$$
In that context, 6 miles from aero changes is a big deal.
Aug 15th, 2008 (8:45 am)It appears to me that the Volt is now entering the “sales pitch” phase.
Not much news about that little battery, the motors, the inverter, and all the core goodies that make this car unique.
I enjoyed the banter on some of the more technical details of the Volt, but now we appear to slipping on our plaid jackets and jousting our cane.
One technical point was wheel size. The 21″ wheels are expensive! IMO this would be a bad decision. When I buy a car I always look at total cost of ownership, and tires are a wear item and you know you will be replacing them. I do not like the idea of plunking down $600+ to replace the tires.
I am not a wheel person, and am not aware of the aero benefits of larger wheels, if any. So, if someone can fill me in with pro’s/con’s of wheel sizes, I would appreciate it. If it’s just for looks, and maybe a slightly better ride, I would axe the idea. Maybe they could sell big wheels as an option?
Aug 15th, 2008 (8:49 am)GMnext is hosting a chat with Bob Boniface, Director of Design for the Volt, on Tuesday August 19 from 3:00 to 4:00 p.m. EDT.
All are welcome to attend Just go to http://www.gmnext.com/LiveChat.aspx and register on the site with your e-mail address.
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:05 am)This is an exciting time for us. Although we would prefer to see pics of the entire car, these teasers are getting us excited. It’s obvious to me that GM is doing everything they can to stay true to the concept we were all memorized by and still give us unprecedented performance. I really do wonder how much an effect this website had on the final design…
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:05 am)#56 Statik…
YES ! … I was on this same thing yesterday, give me the concept design and keep your 6 to 7 extra AER….but alas… I realize this is no longer based in reality and I return to my mantra;
This is more about the electrification of the car – not how cool it looks – forget about the concept car…
This is more about the electrification of the car – not how cool it looks – forget about the concept car…
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:10 am)Jeffre@43
I agree that that is one way to go. I’m thinking that they would manage the battery to stay witin the SOC range that they think will get the 150K miles and 10 years. So whatever the AER ends up, it won’t get them in trouble (well, more trouble) down the line.
Statik,
I think that the article was suggesting that the latest tweaks on the current production version (not the concept) has resulted in 7 more miles. Another hypothesis is that they are so terrified of disappointing you that they just HAD to get that 40 mile AER, even if Bob had to be written into the warranty (that he’d pull you around on a rope for 7 milese ach day).
Be well,
Tag
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:10 am)#56 Statik said “Heck, I’d take the concept w/34 mile range over the new version and a 40 mile range (leaving the battery ‘as is’) in a split second.”
The press and the public would have a field day with GM on that one. The competition would love it if GM would do that. GM has said time and again the Volt will have a 40mi end-of-life battery range. Anything shy of that will be viewed by the press and public as a very big negative. Enough so, it might sink both the Volt and GM, assuming GM can stay afloat for that long.
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:17 am)Wow! What an article. I am truly excited. The confirmation of at least 2 other vehicles is great. Thanks Lyle.
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:20 am)Lyle, good interview! The best part was:
Q: Are you presently designing other E-Flex vehicles?
A: Yes, we are working on other vehicles. We are working on more than one other vehicle that uses this architecture and powertrain. I’m certainly not going to tell you what they are at this point. The E-Flex powertrain is going to spread across more vehicles than just the volt.
I’m absolutely sold on the E-Rev concept. While I’m having 2nd thoughts on the Volt fitting my needs, perhaps one of the other E-Rev vehicles will suit my wife and I just fine. That is my hope!
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:33 am)We’ve been over most of the technical details on this car in a number of other posts. This interview was with the DESIGNER. He’s not going to know or care too much about the battery or the price and he shouldn’t. I don’t want him to, it would mean he wasn’t focused on HIS job: to make the car look outstanding while faithful to the concept and taking the aero from abysmal to respectable. That’s plenty. Thanks for doing this Lyle, its amazing.
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:37 am)My guess is one of those other E-Flex vehicles that GM is working on is the Cadillac Provoq with an ICE instead of hydrogen powertrain.
GM is likely to introduce at least one E-Flex model in all their other product lines; Saturn, Pontiac, Buick, Saab, etc. followed by a small pickup.
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:39 am)#60 GXT – “This 6 miles could have taken them from 20 to 26 for all we know. Turn on the AC or the heater and you could be down to high teens on the highway.”
The good news is that you can relax about the highway range. It should be better — perhaps far better — than 40 miles. I can “math” you if you want but basically maintaining a constant speed once you’ve accelerted to that speed is not energy intensive. Just as an anecdote, my wife gets nearly 30 mpg on the highway going 55-60 mph for a car with an EPA rated 20 mpg combined. The range will be greatly affected by the way you drive. FWIW with the info you’ll be able to see I’m sure your driving habits will change. Nothing like a “watt” gauge to shape you up!
The bigger issue for range will be fast accelerations and hills. Those will really hit the range.
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:45 am)I hope there is no REQUIRED Onstar crap. The car is expensive enough. I personally would rather not have to pay for a monthly service like onstar that I don’t need or want tracking my every move.
Good interview, answered the 6 mile question.
I would REALLY have liked to have been there to ask some follow up questions on the “other EFLEX car under development”. Would have loved to ask if a truck is in the works? Although that question surely would not have been answered, except possibly with a NO.
But how about how long is it going to take before these other cars are able to hit the road. Late 2010 for the volt! Are we talking 2011 for the next or 2012??? Is the development of the other cars going to be kept secret or will it be more open like the development of the Volt?
And I think it is about time for more information to come out on AER under different driving conditions and MPG when the ice is running. First numbers were estimates we should be closer to the truth on this issues… so let hear it!
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:46 am)Donc@71
That’s a good point. When was the last time you bought a car that didn’t have a “your mileage may vary” on the sticker. A lot like the high performance commercials that say “Statik driving on a closed course – don’t try this at home”….
Be well,
Tag
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:50 am)#71 DonC said “The bigger issue for range will be fast accelerations and hills. Those will really hit the range.”
When traveling at highway speeds on cruise control, perhaps GM will allow for more deceleration from desired cruise speed while going up hills to extend the electric range as much as possible. This would be a good owner option, IMHO.
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:50 am)#71 DonC
“The bigger issue for range will be fast accelerations and hills. Those will really hit the range.”
And those, who will not be named, that will try to do donuts in an empty parking lot…
Aug 15th, 2008 (10:13 am)I wonder how much they would reduce CD if they just got rid of the rear spoiler all together? I don’t like them… on mass produced cars they are just designed to look “sporty” and don’t serve the purpose they have in race cars. When I bought my last car one of the it came with a package that the spoiler was bundled into… luckily it wasn’t a bolted on spoiler and the dealership removed it and credited me with $250.
Aug 15th, 2008 (10:16 am)#66 Estero
“The press and the public would have a field day with GM on that one. The competition would love it if GM would do that. GM has said time and again the Volt will have a 40mi end-of-life battery range. Anything shy of that will be viewed by the press and public as a very big negative. Enough so, it might sink both the Volt and GM, assuming GM can stay afloat for that long.”
Be careful about saying that anything less than a real world end of life 40 mile range sinks not only the Volt but GM, that the appearance is secondary to that milestone…it might come back to bite you.
No one at GM has stated that “Volt-Jelly Bean” edition is going to achieve that 40 miles yet either. And with no plan to integrate the body and the powertrain anytime soon…it looks like we won’t know for awhile.
Aug 15th, 2008 (10:21 am)I really hope those two other vehicles are a small CUV or Truck (Equinox or Colorado) and a Cadillac version. Cadillac can actually warrant a higher price tag allowing GM to actually make some $$$ on this! Not to mention the Lexus version of the Prius will be out soon. I hope they don’t do a Saturn equivalent until they move into different segments.
Aug 15th, 2008 (10:42 am)The Reuters story about the waiting list got picked up by our local paper yesterday. Between that and the opening page of Yahoo, I got more questions and comments about the Volt than ever before. $1 million a minute commercials on the Olympics are all very fine, but they ain’t got nothin’ on GM-Volt.com!!!
#54 Rashiid Amul:
I remember an article somewhere several years ago about the weight of drivers and passengers vs. mileage. The guy calculated the gas savings if everybody in the US got down to their ideal body weight. It was some stunning number, well into the millions of gallons a day.
#56 Statik:
I respectfully disagree. Every “point” of aero gain is worth the effort, IMHO. It goes back to Steve Smith’s wisdom on the weight of race cars. The low hanging fruit has been picked. You have to go at it one ounce, or “point”, at a time, and force it to add up to significant gains at the end.
#75 Aspherical:
Don’t get personal!
Aug 15th, 2008 (10:42 am)#77 Statik
The 40 mile electric range has been stated so often by GM, the press and on this website that it has almost become a ‘minimum’ standard by which the Volt will be judged. It won’t make too much difference to me if the “electric range” is 38 instead of 40. But, there are many who will make it a “big issue”.
I’m concerned about the consequences should GM deliver anything less than what is expected in terms of “electric range”. Price, styling, options, etc. for the Volt v1 will take a back seat to the “range” issue. IMHO
Aug 15th, 2008 (10:43 am)#72 omegaman66:
Yeah, come on truck!!
Aug 15th, 2008 (10:43 am)Great article today from autobloggreen.com with video of Bob Boniface discussing the changes to the production Volt:
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/08/15/bob-boniface-discusses-the-changes-to-the-production-volt/
Aug 15th, 2008 (10:50 am)DAMN IT ALL!!!!
Another child dies needlessly…
http://www.click2houston.com/news/17198377/detail.html
For years now, I’ve said, that it’d be a nice feature if automakers would put a small solar panel, like the ones you get cheap at radio shack. And a small fan.
This would then blow the super-heated air our of the vehicle. While I originally came up with this as a solution for entering the super-hot cars in summer time. This feature could save lives…
Truly, I would love to see GM be the first car company to come out with this feature on ALL vehicles. Hundreds of infants might be saved because of this.
Yes, good parenting is the main goal. But in many cases these are good people. The infant falls asleep. The parent is doing something out of their ordinary daily routine. And they forget. This wasn’t an account of a deadbeat mother. This mother was a nurse, she didn’t run in and do her shopping knowing her child was at risk, and when she made the discovery she smashed her window to free her child.
Put yourselves in her place. (And if you’re not a parent, you can’t…because having had a daughter a year ago my whole world is different now.) Think of how many times you forget a cell phone, or even something more important. I believe myself to be a good parent. But in the back of my mind is always the fear, what if I make a fatal mistake.
If this feature was touted as not just a comfort feature but a potential safety aid. No, it’s not an excuse to leave your kids in the car. But if you did, or for any reason you found yourself incapacitated. (ie: stroke, heart attack, etc). Do you really want your spouse discovering that not only have they lost you, but your child was lost as well.
My heart grieves…maybe it’s because this mother was a nurse. And my wife is a nurse. And both of us struggle with forgetting things. My prayer is that I never make a mistake that harms my little girl. But yes, I’d pay to have an extra precaution to keep my darling daughter safe.
Please GM….
Aug 15th, 2008 (10:53 am)I find the question about Internet access interesting in light of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals decision in November, 2003 that (supposedly) ended the FBI’s search for terrorists by using GM’s OnStar to randomly listen to conversations in cars, but only until the FBI could show the court that their eavesdropping would not interfere with OnStar‘s emergency functions. It’s been five years – suppose they’ve done that yet?
So if the Volt is equipped with some sort of “Internet Access” with voice capabilities, you might want to watch what you say while you are driving and if it has the added convenience of a built in web cam – OMG. Better be wearing you American flag lapel pin!
Aug 15th, 2008 (10:56 am)I hear the comments about the tall people wondering if they will fit into the car, but no one is asking about us short people. I am only 5 foot and I have a very hard time fitting into vehicles without feeling like I am right up on the steering wheel. It is a very un-nerving feeling being that close if the airbag ever deploys. Adjustable gas and break pads would be FANTASTIC!
Aug 15th, 2008 (10:57 am)#83 Jason The Saj
Well said! Thanks from all for trying to get this message to GM. We know they monitor this website and who knows, it just might catch their attention. Let’s hope!
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:00 am)#85 TCook
I agree! My wife is short like you and she has said essentially the same many times over the years.
I am 6’0″ and would also like the adjustable brake and gas pedals. In my case, it would be to move them further away. I can adjust the car seat to be a comfortable distance from the steering wheel. But, the legs are a different matter.
Hope your comment gets heard and acted upon!
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:00 am)Is it just me, or did the Gravatars disappear? Is this part of what was needed to regain website functionality?
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:02 am)# 56 Statik,
#64 Murray.
When the designer says he can get 6 more AER from aero dynamics, the net result is not improved distance persay although you can interperet it like that. At this time, if GM used the same battery, it would increase the distance, but likely this will allow GM to use a smaller pack to acheive the 40 AER, requiring less power and weight.
#59.Van..interesting that they will build a hybrid considering Ghosn has said adamnantly ALL ELECTRIC only…
#69.
Right on
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:06 am)Nice video! The Volt is a looker. I can’t wait to see all the custom paint jobs that are sure to come out.
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:14 am)#83 Jason The Saj ,
What a shame. It shows that none of us are perfect.
We are so damned distracted now days.
I would be crushed to lose my children. I love them so much.
I agree with you that GM and all other car makers can do this rather inexpensively and I don’t believe it creates any harm by doing so.
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:18 am)In addition to the FBI being able to listen to conversations in GM’s OnStar equipped vehicles, I’m also fascinated by GM’s “OnStar’s Stolen Vehicle Slowdown System” that lets them bring you to a stop so the local cops don’t have to chase you all over town. As soon as I can hack that, my irritating neighbor won’t be driving 60 MPH through the neighborhood any longer!
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:23 am)Nice video, really shows the perspective of how subtle those changes were, but it greatly improved the aero performance.
Also, looking at the two side by side in the slideshow, I like the production front more than the concept.
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:25 am)#56 Statik
“Heck, I’d take the concept w/ 34 mile range over the new version and a 40 mile range (leaving the battery ‘as is’) in a split second.”
I can see why any single person may say that:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:G8KKTWmtz4sJ:gm-volt.com/2007/12/06/how-did-gm-determine-that-78-of-commuters-drive-less-than-40-miles-per-day/+78+drive+40+miles+volt&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
But, according to Lyle’s graph, with a 34 mile range, for aprox. 10% of drivers (that’s millions!) it would be the difference between buying gas and not buying gas. That is a huge selling point for the Volt.
I could probably get by with 34 miles, as well. But in Chicago winters I’ll be glad to have the extra juice to keep the heater going, and still have enough battery for a full day’s run w/o having to go to the gas station.
I still believe there is a huge difference between using NO gas and using some gas! Plus I’m not convinced that the production car will be a disappointment. You’ll see.
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:32 am)#83 Jason The Saj,
Very sad story but im going to have to disagree about your suggestion for auto makers.
This will give people an excuse to leave kids in their cars. “well the car had a fan thats suposed to keep it cool inside but it broke.” I can just see the lawsuits because of neglect parents killing their children. Its thier fault and they should be held accountable for their actions, not the auto makers.
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:38 am)A few months ago I suggested that the touch screen be completely software based. That way it could be updated on a periodic basis like the xbox. Wireless internet is one way to do that, since so many people have wireless routers and your car could access it from the garage.
This might also be an opportunity for GM to collect driving statistics from its customers to enhance future products, communicate maintenance needs / warranty issues to the customer and dealer, etc.
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:42 am)#88 Michael asks,
Is it just me, or did the Gravatars disappear?
——-
It’s just you. They appear fine. Yours looks like a man on a motorcycle in the summer time.
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:42 am)With respect to cooling fans, I live in FL and have tried most, if not all of the after market devices that claim to keep your car cool – none of them work. One of the engineers on this site could probably explain why. My ‘feeling’ is that they don’t pull enough air out of the car, but even if they exchanged all of the air in the car, consider this: at only 102 degrees Fahrenheit, the forgotten child in your car is in serious trouble. The ambient summer air temperature (especially in an asphalt parking lot) in some parts of this country often exceed that. Pulling 100 degree air into the car might not save a forgotten child, but it might add a layer of safety when the outside temperature is still in the survivable range. So a cooling fan would be an added safety device, but not a guaranteed safety device. We have a beeper that tells us when we leave our key in the ignition, but no beeper to tell us when we leave a child in the vehicle. We have the technology to do that and it is already employed in some vehicles to disable the passenger air bag when the occupant is light weight (child). Just sensor all the seats and add a beeper. Put your groceries in the trunk.
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:48 am)71. DonC,
What kind of vehicle does your wife drive that gets 50% better highway fuel economy than it is rated at? If it were that simple why isn’t everyone getting 45MPG highway with their Malibus and Accords?
It goes without saying that electic cars aren’t gas powered cars. One of the big sources of improved fuel economy and electric range is the ability to regain energy while slowing down. That doesn’t happen on the highway.
Also the drag equation also shows that it takes 6 times as much force to keep an object moving at 60MPH as 25MPH.
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:52 am)#22
I think 30k is wishfull thinking considering the cost of the battery pack. That is unless the govt subsidises these with some massive rebates. Hasnt the concensus been its likely to be $40k +/- $5k?
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:59 am)Does anyone remember when Lutz took his test drive in one of the mules? As stated below, they routinely got high 30′s to low 40′s mileage. And that was in a Malibu body. After the redesign, wouldn’t it stand to reason that the mileage would be on the upper 40′s? Just a thought.
“Lutz said “I would say there’s almost no reasonable doubt in our minds anymore that this is going to work.”
He also confirmed the early Volt prototypes were achieving the electric range GM had hoped for, stating “they’ve routinely had it to the high 30s, low 40s and they go up hills with it and everything”
Lutz also talked more about his test drives of the prototype, continuing to expand of the silent theme of electric drive noting “it never shifts and you just scream along in total silence.”
http://gm-volt.com/2008/06/16/lutz-almost-no-reasonable-doubt-chevy-volt-will-work-as-planned/
Aug 15th, 2008 (12:27 pm)#83 Jason the Saj
You may want to get one of these:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-6079960-7.html
I don’t know how well they work, but it sounds exactly like what you describe.
Aug 15th, 2008 (12:41 pm)I wonder if you put some gas in the volt just in case you need to run on gas but its been sitting there for a while now can you leave the Volt idling and let the ICE recharge the battery. This way you can use up the gas and not have to worry about paying to get your gas tank cleaned out.
Aug 15th, 2008 (12:51 pm)#103 Mike
If you have a volt and you want to preserve the fuel , there are aftermarket fuel stabilizers as an additive, I use it in my mower,snowblower in the off season all the time, never have to empty, both are 13 years old now…I would add a dash of that
Aug 15th, 2008 (12:52 pm)96 OhmExcited
Watch out for what you wish for. I REALLY do not want my car to become a pc. Why? Well for starters:
1- To stop my car, I do not want to select Start (Someone at GM gave Bill Gates a tongue lashing a few years ago, when Bill suggested that cars could be as reliable and friendly as MS Windows).
2- Crashing on my pc is irritating. Crashing my car is more serious.
3- Blue screen of death might be more meaningful in a car….In a bad kind of way.
4- I don’t want to deal with hackers!
5- When I start my car I do not want to wait, while other devices are loading.
6- Now I need to worry that someone will be able to know my driving habits. Sounds innocuous enough, but then I start getting emails telling me to stop by the local “fill in the blank” store, while I am driving by.
7- Now I suppose GM will sell me continuous software upgrades to make the car do what it was supposed to do.
8- My local police officer will have access to my driving data and then issue me a citation, based on what my car tells him. Now, I have to figure out how to hack the cars computer to falsify my own driving data. (Not that I would EVER break a law!)
Also you said “A few months ago I suggested that the touch screen be completely software based.”
Not sure what your driving at, since this would inherently imply software based control. The touchscreen really does not determine this, since most “analog” controls are now really just inputs to the micro that ultimately controls the function. I don’t think many/any analog controls exist on any modern automobile?
Aug 15th, 2008 (12:56 pm)This is a very small car. About the size of a tiny Honda Civic. I was expecting a midsized sedan about the size of a Chevy Malibu. Looks like I will be looking at upcoming Saturn Vue Hybrid for immediate ride and look back at other GM ER-EV models when they come out after I wear out my Vue.
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:02 pm)The touchscreen display better have text-messaging built-in. This is the 21st century dudes and I need to stay in constant touch with my peeps. I really like the iPod type dashboard. Come on GM make Apple proud, do it right the first time.
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:06 pm)I’m so excited I can barely contain myself. GM this is a great looking car. Keep up the good work Lyle. We just keep getting good news on this vehicle. I am so ready.
Take Care,
TED
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:10 pm)Steven Jobber #107,
Forget touchscreen for texting. Speech to Text would be better while driving. And of course Text to Speech would have to go along with that.
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:11 pm)This topic has been discussed in previous posts, but I just want to put it out again.
If somehow the Volt design could provide a way to remove the ICE, including the gas tank, and then provide the ability to insert more batteries in this vacated space, then the car would be 100% electric with an extension of 40 mile AER. Not sure how many KWhr of battery you could stuff into this vacated area, but my gut feel is you could easily double the KWhr and therefore nearly double the range (80 miles). Also, as battery technology advances, possibly you would be able to run 100′s of miles off pure battery/ultracapacitors/other technology. So, the ICE may be obsoleted in a few years.
I would anticipate this would be a very design intensive task and do not expect it to be available in Volt 1.0, BUT if some thought was put into this method, maybe in the future, this could be added without a full re-design.
This would provide the opportunity for persons who know they will never want to use the car for more than short trips, which be GM’s own data would cover >90% of the normal drive distances.
I admit this is really far-fetched, but go ahead and load up the guns and return the fire. I am interested in knowing if my thinking is really off target, or if others feel the desire to be all electric.
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:13 pm)I can’t believe no one has said this yet, but the production version of the Volt is looking nicer than the concept car. Very exciting indeed. The concept car has a square and squinty looking front end. The production car has a mature yet high tech look (for the bits we can see) that I definitely prefer. Last night GM’s ad was on during the Olympics and while the front view of the Volt was on the screen my wife asked “Is that our next car? It looks kinda wierd.” I quickly showed her the recently released front corner shot and she agreed it was much nicer.
With that said, the previous poster is bang on who said: “This is more about the electrification of the car – not how cool it looks – forget about the concept car”.
Of course I want the Volt to look cool but mainly so that lots and lots of people buy them which works to accomplish the ultimate goal of the electrification of the automobile. People who see the Volt as simply a vehicle that uses ‘less gas’ like the Prius are missing something huge. One of the greatest things about the Volt is that it gets decent sized Lithium Ion batteries in a high volume automobile application. This of course creates economies of scale and supports the automation of the Li-Ion battery making process which both bring Li-Ion prices way down. If the Volt is a success, GM (or any car maker) can follow it up a few years later with a Plug In series hybrid with 60-80 miles of range for the same price. Then we could see third generation vehicles around 2020 with 100 mile AER and eventually the need for a range extender would disappear and we’d have affordable all electric cars. The other challenges with an all electric car (weight and charging times) are quickly becoming non-issues with the employment of Li-Ion batteries and new quick charge technology respectively.
The Volt is a gateway vehicle that holds the potential to lead us towards an affordable, no compromises electric car. This in turn eliminates our dependence on foreign oil, creates no smog or acid rain causing substances, fights global warming and slows the acidification of our oceans which is rapidly killing coral reefs worldwide….and we’d look cool doing it!
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:13 pm)ho ho ho,Things are starting to get serious now guys!
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:13 pm)Hey Mon,
I am like wondering if this here Volt will have a Bob Marley joint interface (aka Cigar Lighter). I am still trying to wrap my head around this whole Volt concept. So far it looking very good mon.
Later Bro, got some serious waves they need my urgent attention.
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:21 pm)TOUCH SCREENS????
TEXT-TO-SPEECH?????
“I’m sorry officer, I was talking to my car when I hit the lady with the walker…”
Let’s just get the VOLT’S wheels on the road!!!!!
Whew, I feel better now.
Be well,
Tag
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:26 pm)114 Tag
Agreed.
But, sometimes a little dreamin’ makes us feel alive.
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:30 pm)117 JEC
Agreed, dreaming is good. some would say the whole Volt thing is a “dream”, but it IS a nice part about the human condition.
Be well,
Tag
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:31 pm)Oh my gawd, this car is the bomb. I want to see what aftermarket bolt on parts will be available to pimp out this Volt. I plan to make a bold statement with my Volt. Get this done GM, i can’t wait. My first mod is going to be a bitchin new set of larger wheels to roll wit. Wassup homies, check out my new ride.
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:38 pm)#99 GXT – “What kind of vehicle does your wife drive that gets 50% better highway fuel economy than it is rated at? If it were that simple why isn’t everyone getting 45MPG highway with their Malibus and Accords? ”
Actually I misspoke. She’s doing better than what I said! The car is an Acura RL. I thought it was rated 20 mpg combined but it’s actually 18 mpg. The highway part is 22 mpg and she gets 30 mpg. How does she do it? Not a secret. She used to drive very aggressively and would get 21 mpg. She’s slowed down, stays in the right lane, and avoids having to slow down and accelerate. Now her highway mpg can be 30. (Her combined mpg for all driving is about 25 mpg which is about 40% better than rated but she has the advantage of more highway miles).
I don’t think this should be that surprising. My point was that how you drive makes a very big difference in how much energy you use per mile. We should know this is true with all the reports of hyper milers getting 50 mpg or 80 mpg with their Accords as well as from Prius owners, some of whom get 40 mpg and some who get 55 mpg.
The most interesting part of this, however, is how she ended up getting such better mileage. The car came with a display, which we didn’t even know about, that shows your instantaneous mpg. She found it and then started watching it. Turn the AC on and it drops. Accelerate quickly and it drops. Stand in traffic and it drops. In an organic way she just changed her driving habits and started getting better mileage. When the gas prices went up she paid more attention and her mpg went up even more.
The reason I find this interesting is that i believe the Volt’s display will do the same thing for Volt drivers. There will doubtless be a big gauge that goes from green to yellow to red telling you the energy draw, and there will be a “battery” gauge that shows how rapidly your battery is being depleted. As people look at these displays they will, even subconsciously, conform their driving to get better range and to use less of their battery or to get better mpg when using the gen set.
Sometimes you get great benefits from simple feedback systems. The Volt display will be one of those systems.
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:46 pm)#114 Tag
Are you sitting?
I’ll give you a couple seconds to accomplish that goal before I continue…comfy? Thats good.
Why do you have such a crappy office chair anyway? You spend so many hours sitting in front of the computer, you should really have something nicer…you should look into something new, treat yourself. Maybe something with nice ‘soft Corinthian leather’…you know, like Ricardo Montalbán drives around on…in his Chyrsler Cordoba.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIL3fbGbU2o
Oh yes, the point. I agree with every word you said. I know…screenshot this moment.
I wonder if Ricardo would be willing to do the promo for the new Volt? Now that would be sweet. This is a dude who knows how to really play up a automobile. ( I love the ending credits — Cordoba-The small Chrsyler…the thing is a whale by today’s standards)
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:49 pm)I have a ’95 Chevy Balzer (still goin’ strong) that gets anywhere from 15-24 mpg on my commute to work depending on how I drive. If I ever get a Volt (it’s lookin glike 2013 at this point) I expect that I will be able to milk my entire 60 mile round trip out of it.
My route is 50 MPH max and very rural.(down hill both ways!…(just joking…!)
Aug 15th, 2008 (1:59 pm)Statik@120,
If I didn’t have bad luck, I’d have no luck at all….. I finally see the Yin agree with the Yang and they point to the wrong post (SIGH). JEC said 114 and I was 115 – I assume that you got the # there (JEC).
Now, where’d you get the idea that I had an uncomfortable chair? (g).
Be well,
I need a nap now - just to dream about your post (lol)
Tag
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:01 pm)Statik
I was thinking more on the lines from Star Trek with Ricardo Montalbán. “Revenge is a dish, best served cold!”
Perhaps this could be GM’s new mantra to Toyota and Honda?
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:02 pm)DonC #119
Same thing with me. I have slowed down to 52 mph, set the cruise, stay in the right lane and hypermile when safe.
My 2002 Hyundia Elantra is rated as getting 25 MPG overall.
“http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/17561.shtml”
I will know in about a week what the mileage is. I am calculating it over a one month period. But so far 38.1 MPG is average.
From my own experience, I believe what you are saying about your wife.
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:04 pm)#103 SamH
fwiw…
I bought one, as they looked pretty good on TV. Problem is, they didn’t have enough power to do much good. Plus on my car, they didn’t fit that well.
I gave it to my son-in-law (as a joke) who also wanted one. He used it one day.
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:05 pm)#112 Dan
I know it is a revolutionary electric car but… but… the wheels are too small! (whine). Ha, you are spot on, my friend. I can’t believe people are obsessing about options packages when we are looking at a transportation revolution. Do you think the Wright brothers laid awake at night worrying about the color of their first airplane? No, I don’t either. The problem is that people (me included) are coming to discuss this issue daily when there are not daily developments to discuss. So we diverge from the core issue. Don’t fret, we’ll all come back into focus when it matters.
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:14 pm)119. DonC,
I drive a TL. On long highway trips (i.e. fill, drive 120KM/h for 500KM, fill) I get about 8L/100KM. No rapid speed changes, just a steady speed. Tires inflated as per spec. That is pretty much the rated fuel economy, not the 35+% better that your wife is seeing. What is interesting is that the RL and the TL have relatively similar engines, and 8L/100KM is ~29.5MPG. Perhaps what you are witnessing is a poor highway fuel economy rating as opposed to some magical highway driving technique? I could drive slower, but there is no way I will ever see 5L/100KM on the highway.
I also have a trip computer on my car. One thing I can tell you is that it is 10-15% optimistic on the TL. It routinely tells me I am getting 10L/100KM when I am actually getting 11.5. I’m not sure if that is a problem on the RL as well.
I have no doubt that city driving habits can affect city fuel economy (I have done a tank or two 100% city at 9L/100KM… I’ve also done some cross-city drives where the traffic was so light and the lights were timed so well that I got 8L/100KM. However it sucked all the fun out of driving.), however it should have relatively little affect on highway fuel economy (save for slowing down).
Regardless, you can bet GMs 40 Mile rate will be using all the amazing techniques that their best minds can come up with.
I should mention that in my original post I was only speaking about drag from air resistance… there is also drag from rolling resistance.
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:23 pm)iit’s not so much about the wheels that I have a concern but the quality of the tires… on BOTH my 04 MAXX and my current 07 MAXX GM went with the Bridgstone “demo” tires… on the 04 I barely got 52,000 KMS before they started to fail… on my 07 Maxx … I just replaced the SAME TIRES at 42,000 KMS… No tread, tread separation and 2 tires started to have bulges on the sidewalls.
When I get my VOLT … it will have to have really good tires on it or I will be replacing them BEFORE I leave the dealership.
Ray
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:25 pm)#25 Noah Wright:
Amen. If gas prices temporarily drop, as the have in the past, we should just save up that much more money for our Volts. They will go back up, and we need to do everything we can to slow that process. If we haven’t learned that by now, we are doomed.
“In time of peace, prepare for war.”
Or, for those of you who were fans of “The Wire”:
“You’ve got to keep the Devil way down in the hole.”
#115 Tagamet:
Amen.
“What ain’t there don’t give you no trouble.”
“Simplicate and add lightness.”
“Keep It Simple Sweetheart.”
#85 akojim:
Don’t worry, Gitmo isn’t big enough to hold us all, LOL.
Although, if Mr. Lutz and Mr. Wagoner started listening in on my conversations in the car I might get knocked right off the famous waiting list, LMAO!
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:33 pm)I think GM should per her on a Dyno..flat out floor it, go ball to the wall max power drain and see if she can do 40 miles non stop flat out..and if yes..we got a winner. If no..back to the drawing board and “Git er done!!”
I do NOT want the Volt to get 40 miles under certain driving paramaters i.e. slow acceleration, steady cruise speed with the AC and radio off and a good tail wind while headed down hill .. I want 40 miles AER no matter what I do, A/C on, tunes cranked, passing Priuses like they were parked… YEAH BABY!! get me the shades..
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:34 pm)#99 GXT – “Also the drag equation also shows that it takes 6 times as much force to keep an object moving at 60MPH as 25MPH.”
Certainly you are absolutely right that we need more energy to move a car 60 mph than 25 mph. But the question we’re asking is whether the Volt battery will power the Volt 40 miles at 60 mph.
I think that is pretty likely. Sixty mph is about 27.5 m/sec. As you know the drag equation is 1/2 rho * [CdA * V^2]. Assuming rho, the density of air, is 1.225kg/m^3, and CdA is .25 (the Prius is .26 and Lutz has said the CdA of the Volt will be better), the drag force would be 115.8N. Now the power needed to needed to overcome aero drag will be Force X Velocity or 115.8N * 27.5 m/sec, which is 3184.5 Watts. At this power the Volt would be using 32.167 Wh/km (3184.5 Wh/99 km). With a battery pack which can deliver 8kWh, the range, if all you had to do is overcome was aero drag at 60 mph, would be 8000 Wh/32.17 Wh/km — 248.7 km or 150 miles.
[I fat finger the calculator all the time so feel free to check the numbers, but they should be basically right.]
This is why I’m saying highway driving will not be a big deal absent big hills or very aggressive driving habits or horrible tires (no way) or large drive train losses (not likely).
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:36 pm)This ride will be a bitch magnet !
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:36 pm)#122 Tag
Those darn ‘coming out of moderation’ comments strike again. Yes it was in reference to your post, now in #115…and after I went to all that trouble digging up Ricardo’s Coroba too, sigh.
I just figured that waiting for the Volt to come out has virtually caused time to stop so I’d throw out a random link for fun for a change.
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:41 pm)I am late to the party today. Actually had to do some work. I haven’t had time to read what everyone has said, but I think the pictures and the presentation was very good. It is going to look better than the concept car in many ways. The concept car was and is very beautiful and was what got us here to begin with, but the production car is going to be what carries us over the next two to three years.
Good job Lyle. Good job GM. Now let’s get the Volt made. We are waiting for it. We need it ASAP, but make it right.
Aug 15th, 2008 (2:54 pm)#134 N Riley
The only thing you need to go back and check out was my link to Ricardo Montalbán selling his soft Corinthian leather in Chryslers back in the day. (Post #120)
Definetly do NOT check out DonC’s post in #131 if you are currently operating heavy machinery, hehe. (Just kidding Don)
Aug 15th, 2008 (3:06 pm)Random Factoid/Link:
A123 maybe losing it’s biggest customer: Black & Decker ( 70.7% of our total revenue since inception)…or maybe GM?
There had been some strain on the relationship apparently, but only news in the form of rumoUr mill. However when you file to go public, you also have to release a S-1….full disclosure, expected future realites/risks, etc.
“On page 12, A123 rolls out the laundry list about risks they face, including a loss of a big customer. It’s boilerplate language and can’t be taken as evidence that the relationship is rocky in any way. Still, it lays out how much the small company depends on the toolmaker for revenue”
The risk of losing a big customer however, may also speak to losing General Motors…as they really only have 2 ‘big customers’ at the moment.
The filing also states that revenue was propped up last quarter by it’s acquisition of Enerdel and that its core Lithium battery manufacturing business suffered a ” decrease in demand.”
http://greenlight.greentechmedia.com/2008/08/11/is-black-and-decker-pulling-away-from-a123-456/
/just thought it was interesting
EDIT: autoblog has a article on it now too..
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/08/15/is-a123-systems-losing-black-and-decker-before-its-ipo/
(They basically say the same thing, but also add that “high end” power tools maybe suffering due to the economy…less housing, therefore less construction, etc.)
Aug 15th, 2008 (3:11 pm)OT:
GM’s Ed Welburn to be on The Charlie Rose Show tonight as part of a panel taking about automotive design. See http://www.charlierose.com for details. That’s on PBS, for those not familiar with Charlies’ show.
Aug 15th, 2008 (3:46 pm)#132 Kid Rock.
I love your new hit, ALL SUMMER LONG
lol
Aug 15th, 2008 (4:00 pm)#130 Mitch
For some reason I don’t believe that flooring the pedal, blasting the A/C with the windows down, and jamming to Rob Zombie on the radio until the juice runs out and still get 40 AER is one of GM requirements. Yet, I would volunteer to be the test driver if it was…
Aug 15th, 2008 (4:04 pm)#117 GXT – “I also have a trip computer on my car. One thing I can tell you is that it is 10-15% optimistic on the TL. It routinely tells me I am getting 10L/100KM when I am actually getting 11.5. I’m not sure if that is a problem on the RL as well.”
Oh yes, the optimistic display. Like the ones you find on exercise equipment that tell you that you’re burning some incredible number of calories. I love those! LOL
This could happen of course. I’m sure the displays are not that accurate. On the other hand the mpg numbers are ultimately based on filling up the tank. In aggressive mode she was getting 19-20 combined mpg. In her gas miser mode she’s getting 24-25 combined mpg. Since the only number coming from the car is the miles driven between fill-ups, the errors shouldn’t matter since they’d be there in all driving modes. It could, however, be that she’s changing her destinations and being more careful about avoiding slow traffic and so forth, though that too is part of driving behavior.
On this subject I was just talking to a friend who said her driving habits were affected by the displays in Europe which showed the mpg in a more instantaneous fashion but not by the ones here in NA that give you more of an average over a fairly large number of miles.
Aug 15th, 2008 (4:09 pm)I didn’t know it was movie quote day!!!!
Here is one of my favorites:
“Mr. Vaughn, what we are dealing with here is a perfect engine, an eating machine. It’s really a miracle of evolution. All this machine does is swim and eat and make little sharks, and that’s all!”
OK, Statik, I helped you to pass ten more seconds, until the release of the Volt………….
Aug 15th, 2008 (4:14 pm)BRUCE CAMPBELL IS PRESENTING THE VOLT?!!
Aug 15th, 2008 (4:16 pm)If they want to start recording what is being said in my car, what they are going to get is a truly great rendition of “Satisfaction” or “Start Me Up” by the Rolling Stones.
Actually, some of those lyrics are applicable to us waiting for the Volt:
“You Make A Grown Man Cry!!!!!!!!!!!”
So how am I doing at taking totally random thoughts and linking them back to the Volt???
Aug 15th, 2008 (4:22 pm)#143 Jim
How about “You can’t always get what you want.”?
LMAO
Aug 15th, 2008 (4:24 pm)Thanks for asking about the sunroof. Hopefully soon we will know options.
They sure are keeping the vehicle a real heavy secret, but I guess they want to keep it from the competetion as long as possible.
Aug 15th, 2008 (4:32 pm)Que Sera Sera (Whatever Will Be Will Be)
Aug 15th, 2008 (4:43 pm)#35 GuyMan
Good catch on the Cd. You’re right in identifying that drag is a big deal. However I think in one of the later videos Bob Lutz said the drag on the Volt would be “better” than the drag for the Prius. I assumed he meant the CdA would be lower, which is the coefficient times the frontal area, not Cd, which is just the coefficient. (For some reason I had stuck in my head that the CdA for the Prius was .25 but in looking at the table it’s more like .58m^2)
The point is that it’s hard to know when they’re talking about Cd or CdA and it may be that the changes were illustrative rather than exhaustive. IOW there may have been other changes that were made that the designer wasn’t talking about.
As you mention, looking at a car can be deceiving. Some cars that look really aerodynamic turn out not to be. But if Lutz has said the Volt have less drag than the Prius, I’m inclined to believe the CdA will be lower.
Aug 15th, 2008 (4:52 pm)#75 Estero – “When traveling at highway speeds on cruise control, perhaps GM will allow for more deceleration from desired cruise speed while going up hills to extend the electric range as much as possible. This would be a good owner option, IMHO.”
That’s a neat idea. Not sure it matters for going up hill since it’s a constant speed so it’s just the potential energies of the before and after. However, you could have some preset modes, let’s say “Gas Miser”, “Sensible Guy”, “Teenager”, and then “Statik.” If you lent the car to one of the latter mentioned folk you could lock the car into a granny mode and make sure they weren’t throwing doughnuts in the parking lot!
Actually my sense is that the displays will give such great instant feedback about how your driving affects your range that you’ll adjust, even subconsciously, and adopt the right strategies for getting the most out of the car.
Aug 15th, 2008 (5:03 pm)Why even do an interview with this clown when he wouldn’t even answer a freakin question…..this kinda BS isn’t what Americans want to hear given our energy crisis!
Why can’t GM just build the damn car already and quit jackin everybody around!
I’m almost too pissed off to even care anymore given GM’s idiotic approach to things..
No wonder we’ll always be addicted to foreign oil…!
Aug 15th, 2008 (5:03 pm)#84 Jason the Saj
The Aptera has this type of roof as a standard feature. The solar panels run a fan that keeps the car cool when not in use. When on the road it pumps out air that fills in the turbulence at the back of the car where it has a small Kammback for the license plate and brake lights.
Obviously the Aptera is not a family car but it shows that the option is certainly technically feasible. Perhaps it should be a standard feature on all cars.
#131 GXT
Hey guy, sorry but I messed up the CdA. I remembered it as .25 but it’s more like .5. Just double the force, the power and halve the miles. Still plenty in the tank so you’ll still be fine cruising.
Aug 15th, 2008 (5:44 pm)#123 “Revenge is a dish best served cold”
First said by Pierre Ambroise Francois Choderios de LaClos (1741-1803). He originally said it in French in his 1782 book Les Liasons Dangereuses:
Used thereafter in numerous movies and stories, such as The Godfather and Star Trek.
Aug 15th, 2008 (5:57 pm)While you’re waiting for the Volt here’s a revolutionary announcement about electric cars:
http://www.foshelectricauto.com/
[Don't know anything about it and I've never heard of foshelectric but it may be entertaining]
Aug 15th, 2008 (6:04 pm)From Lyle’s post
“Will there be running prototypes that look like the final car by the end of this year, as others have reported?
Representative body will not meet representative powertrain until sometime next year, and that’s in a developmental form.”
Accepting this statement as true, and noting the way it is carefully phrased (“in developmental form”), it seems to me impossible that there will be Volts for sale in 2010. Also, in schedule-speak usually “sometime next year” means “toward the end of the year.” The good part re Mr Boniface is that design seems to be on time. It is the powertrain and control systems that are later than hoped.
Aug 15th, 2008 (6:12 pm)#152 Don C
“While you’re waiting for the Volt here’s a revolutionary announcement about electric cars:
http://www.foshelectricauto.com/
[Don't know anything about it and I've never heard of foshelectric but it may be entertaining]”
They are some l33t ninja HTML skillz, I’m sure it’s legitimate.
Aug 15th, 2008 (6:17 pm)DonC #131
I believe the Prius’ Cd is .26, CdA (m^2) would be a bit larger than that.
Aug 15th, 2008 (7:03 pm)#140 DonC:
We have a Silverado 3500 crew cab with the 8.1L gas V-8. It has an instantaneous mileage readout. Why anybody would do that is beyond me, but it was part of the package. It will really make you change your driving behavior, LOL! As in, we absolutely do not drive it unless it is unavoidably necessary to tow one of our trailers.
#157 RB:
As to revenge being a dish best served cold, what an interesting coincidence. I have just been reading some of Bernard Cornwell’s Richard Sharpe novels. In one of them, “Sharpe’s Honor”, if memory serves, an evil French secret service officer, Major Ducos, is quoted as saying the very same thing. If you aren’t familiar with them, or the PBS “Mystery” series version “Sharpe’s Rifles”, which aired a few years ago, they are set around the Duke of Wellington’s campaigns in Spain, circa 1812-13.
Aug 15th, 2008 (7:06 pm)Aspherical #76
“And those, who will not be named, that will try to do donuts in an empty parking lot…”
*** *** ***
That’d be quite a trick in a front wheel drive car!
Aug 15th, 2008 (7:07 pm)BTW, 37,500+ on the waiting list!!!!! Awesome!!!
Well done to Dr. Dennis and all of you faithful bloggers for what what has been arguably the most important week yet. It went up what, 5000+ names? Ignore that if you can GM.
The best of weekends to all.
Aug 15th, 2008 (7:12 pm)noel park #156
“We have a Silverado 3500 crew cab with the 8.1L gas V-8. It has an instantaneous mileage readout. Why anybody would do that is beyond me, but it was part of the package.”
*** *** ***
The thing to do is drive lightly and do a lot of foot-off-the-pedal deceleration coasting especially down hills and you might seen some astronomical gas mileage even with the monster V-8! I had one of those mileage gauges in a Chevy Beretta and I often hypermiled the car to some incredible mileage. Always made me wonder just how accurate it was.
Aug 15th, 2008 (7:35 pm)A “live web chat” with Volt Designer Bob Boniface of GM:
Tuesday August 19, 2008 3-4 PM EST.
http://www.gmnext.com/LiveChat.aspx
Your Volt questions, hopefully, answered.
Aug 15th, 2008 (7:42 pm)#156 noel
Thank you. I always learn something new here
Aug 15th, 2008 (7:45 pm)#157 Grizzly
Unless it’s a Krispy Kreme parking lot
Aug 15th, 2008 (8:23 pm)Great information and I really really want to see the entire car. I was afraid that the car was going to be lame after the announcement that they had to round the car out. Now that I see these shots, I’m excited again. The car looks great.
Aug 15th, 2008 (8:32 pm)Get a copy of “Who Killed The Electric Car” (Sony Pictures) from Amazon.com and learn about GM’s EV-1, or just read about it here – http://www.ev1.org/
They built a whole fleet of them over TEN years ago. They were fully developed, highly successful, as fast as a Ferrari and users begged to buy them, but they were all recalled from their (lessee) users and crushed! All except ONE – which was stripped of its innards (so it couldn’t be copied) and the body shell was donated to a car museum.
Why was the project killed off? Because GM realised that they were virtually maintenance free and they’d make nothing in after-sales revenue, and in cahoots with the oil companies, they killed the electric car for their own corporate reasons, in other words, greed!
Toyota also built a fleet of fully electric RAV-4 models, also highly successful, but they died too because the company that made the batteries (as also happened with the EV-1) was bought by oil companies and the batteries became unavailable at any price.
The EV-1 was developed and built to comply with California’s new (at the time) Zero Emissions mandate, but General Motors and the oil companies hounded the Government into submission and the Zero Emissions bill was withdrawn, after which all the EV-1′s were taken back by GM and destroyed. A blatant conspiracy by vested interests to keep electric cars off our roads!
IF the Chevy Volt ever sees tarmac it won’t be because they want to build it but because they are forced to. Why didn’t they just revive the EV1 which was already fully developed? I’ll believe a Chevy Volt exists when I can buy one and drive it.
Aug 15th, 2008 (8:47 pm)Get a copy of “Who Killed The Electric Car” (Sony Pictures) from Amazon.com and learn about GM’s EV-1, or just read ev1(dot)org
GM built a whole fleet of them over TEN years ago. They were fully developed, highly successful, as fast as a Ferrari and users begged to buy them, but they were all recalled from their (lessee) users and crushed! Why? Because GM realised that they were virtually maintenance free and they’d make nothing in after-sales revenue, and in cahoots with the oil companies, they killed the electric car for their own corporate reasons, in other words, greed!
Toyota also built a fleet of fully electric RAV-4 models, also highly successful, but they died too because the company that made the batteries (as also happened with the EV-1) was bought by oil companies and the batteries became unavailable.
The EV-1 was developed and built to comply with California’s new (at the time) Zero Emissions mandate, but General Motors and the oil companies hounded the Government into submission and the Zero Emissions bill was withdrawn. A blatant conspiracy by vested interests to keep electric cars off our roads!
IF the Chevy Volt ever sees tarmac it won’t be because they want to build it but because they are forced to. Why didn’t they just revive the EV1 which was already fully developed? I’ll believe it when I can buy one and drive it!
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:29 pm)Statik “They are some l33t ninja HTML skillz, I’m sure it’s legitimate.”
Ya think? Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha ….. Hey they said it will be revolutionary.
#155 Koz
Thanks. I caught that. I actually looked it up and the CdA is supposedly .58 m^2. So I’m guessing the Volt, since it’s better, should be around .5m^2?
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:34 pm)Since many of us are very excited about this development, and since Bob Boniface was kind enough to talk with Lyle, I always like to link this video, as it is fun to watch. Pay special attention to the night portion with the Volt’s lighting scheme. Very Cool.
Keep up the good work, Bob.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVFTAgKTN70
Aug 15th, 2008 (9:44 pm)No 64 ! Paul Carson
Thanks for informing this site about the EV-1 and that ridiculous movie. It’s the first time it’s been mentioned on this site……………….. T-O-D-A-Y!!!
Aug 15th, 2008 (11:11 pm)Grizzly,
Donuts with front wheel drive just need to be done in reverse.
The “revenge” quote, as I’d learned it was “Revenge is a dish best EATEN cold” and was attributed to either China or Japan (I forget). Could be wrong.
ATTENTION
Talk about “good news/bad news”
Calcars.com’s Felix Kramer (a biggie re plugin vehicles) says that GM has presented to some of his group and other Calif people who’ve owned EV’s and plugin conversions for their input and he is floating the idea of GM using HIS group for beta testing the prototypes. He did give a passing mention of this site. I’m on his newsletter list as are about a bizzilion other people. I hope GM doesn’t throw us under the bus.
Tag
Aug 16th, 2008 (12:25 am)Get on with it and into production. You will save your company and the envrionment. Be brave and think VISION.
Above all deliver.
Aug 16th, 2008 (1:46 am)Since the range extender turns the generator which DIRECTLY powers the electric motor, why wasn’t this thecnology implemented some decades ago? I mean, you could build a car like Chevy Volt without any battery (only 12V to power appliances) and the “range extender” could actually be used at all times to power the electric motor. The car would still be 50mpg which is still awesome. And today we would be talking about optional battery to go those 40 miles without any gas. Am I missing something? This ICE-to-generator-to-electric-motor system is already been used in the diesel powered railway trains.
Aug 16th, 2008 (7:27 am)Ric_LV #170
Because the engine needs to be made for relatively low power delivery and gradual changes in power output to achieve 50mpg. This would not result in acceptable performance. A powerful battery or other power source is needed for peak power demands in order to have acceptable performance. Once this “large” power source is added, the additional for enough storage to achieve 40 miles AER is not that great.
GM is by no means beyond reproach, but they have made a VERY, VERY, VERY good choice in developing EFLEX EREVs. The Volt is the first iteration of this drivetrain. In allnlikelihood, it will be improved and implemented accross all of their brands and many other platforms. One of the few iterations they have mentioned is a 20 mile AER version. This will probably be the first “affordable” EREV solution, but if batteries alone continue as the eletrical storage technology of choice then I doubt we’ll see less than a 20 mile EREV anytime soon.
Aug 16th, 2008 (10:25 am)#159 Grizzly:
The one we have is all too accurate, alas! If you get right up behind a semi on the Interstate, it is worth about 10%. Unfortunately, I have learned too much about diesel exhaust, so I can’t stand to do it any more. It says something about the aero issues with the Volt though.
We are towing 2 cars, which we have fought down to about 2500# each. We have an aluminum open trailer, but it still has to weigh pretty close to 2000#. With all of our gear, we are carrying probably 10,000# all up. The thing has the Cd and the frontal area of a barn door. Hello 9.5 mpg. All of these things are the arch enemies of the Volt.
I thought that modern EFI and the 5 speed Allison would do something for the mileage, vs the old 454 with the carburetor. Alas, the laws of physics have no mercy, and the mileage is only marginally better, at best.
Aug 16th, 2008 (3:38 pm)ERRR?? So why the same concept volt on the web page above?
Aug 16th, 2008 (4:36 pm)#171 Ric_LV
Yup, that’s how I got started in following the Volt and this website: it works like a train engine, which appeals to my sensibilities.
Aug 16th, 2008 (7:28 pm)Still nicely designed. No change on the demand side due to the production redesign in my view.
My Bumper Sticker: Chevy Volt, American made, American FUELED.
I spend $5,000 per year in gas here in Denver. Looking forward to the change for me and for America.
Aug 17th, 2008 (11:13 am)I am disappointed they haven’t taken a cue from Aptera nad dropped the side mirrors. Easy Big reduction of drag.
Aug 18th, 2008 (1:03 pm)[...] also read a piece from Wired blogs that referenced a website started by a New York neurologist named Lyle Dennis, aka, “the world’s # 1 Volt [...]
Aug 19th, 2008 (3:12 am)[...] GM-Volt, Green Fuels Forecast, The Detroit Free [...]
Aug 19th, 2008 (5:37 am)[...] GM-Volt, Green Fuels Forecast, The Detroit Free [...]
Aug 19th, 2008 (6:22 pm)[...] GM-Volt, Green Fuels Forecast, The Detroit Free [...]
May 27th, 2009 (5:16 pm)Informative and entertaining. I’ve added your blog to my “reading material.” Keep me updated!